JLA: New Series?

[TurtleTitan97]

An image that surfaced on Imgur and Reddit shows a wall that appears to be in either Warner Bros Animation or Cartoon Network offices. The original poster doesn't identify where the image comes from, who took it, or where it was taken, unfortunately.

But the op does point out a prominent JLA poster to the far right of the image. The poster is alongside known new properties like Be Cool Scooby Doo and Wabbit (both launching later this year) and current series Mike Tyson Mysteries and Teen Titans Go!, which lends credibility to the idea that this is a new series. While folks at Warner Bros haven't yet responded to requests for comment, the design and apparent lineup on the poster doesn't fit with any of the direct-to-dvd animated movies that are known to be in development (which have largely been following the New 52 lineup and design from DC Comics).

The poster appears to show: Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Martian Manhunter, an unidentifiable female, Firestorm, most likely a Green Lantern or Flash, another female, a Hawk-person down at the bottom, and five cut-off partial characters. It looks like a giant line-up, somewhat similar to the final cartoon in the "Timmverse" era, Justice League Unlimited, which had a rotating cast that pulled form all across the DCU. The characters are in silhouette, and the image is fairly small, but it sure is intriguing.

We'll keep you up to date here at ComicBook.com as we hear anything directly from Warner Bros.


https://i.imgur.com/D9GX7Cs.jpg

http://comicbook.com/2015/09/03/is-a-new-justice-league-tv-series-in-the-works-at-wb-animation-/

[ToTheNines]

I see Zatanna, Batgirl, Captain Marvel and definitely Flash.

[CyberCubed]

I'm not getting too excited yet, I get the feeling it'll be aimed at young kids like those "Batman Unlimited" DVD movies that had Batman with the Justice League. Like "Animal Instincts" was the latest one and its a new wave of DC movies aimed at kids.

Remember Young Justice was canceled because it didn't catch on with kids because the stories were too complex and it was aimed at adults. I think CN is going to want something very kid-friendly, it'll probably be more along the lines of The Batman or Teen Titans Go.

[TurtleTitan97]

Remember Young Justice was canceled because it didn't catch on with kids because the stories were too complex and it was aimed at adults.

That isn't true at all. YJ was canceled because more girls were watching it than guys according to Paul Dini: http://io9.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317

[CyberCubed]

The toyline also bombed after a year and the ratings were shot once CN's hiatus breaks killed interest in the show. I'm sure that contributed to it.

As for this new JLA series I can't get excited until I see character designs and what the tone will be. I'm really betting it'll be a kid-friendly series so those hoping for the next Justice League Unlimited or Young Justice will likely be out of luck.

[MikeandRaph87]

I have learned to not get my hopes up. It would be cool if a third incarnation of Justice League starts up. I really miss that show. I had hoped for something like the first two seasons in format or the JLA vs Cadmus arc. Hope Aquaman will get some prominence and it will be in the Timmverse. Which Flash will it be? Please say Wally West as we know and love. So many questions that more information will give answers too and hopefully sooner than later. It could be another direct to DVD project like Trapped In Time was, but if it is a full show that is a good thing. Yes, like the rest of you I hope for the previous tone to be maintained. A hard PG/light PG-13 approach.

[CyberCubed]

I'm willing to bet its a series based on Batman Unlimited and the JLA from Animal Instincts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B3xDLdiFxg

[TurtleTitan97]

I'm not getting too excited yet, I get the feeling it'll be aimed at young kids like those "Batman Unlimited" DVD movies that had Batman with the Justice League. Like "Animal Instincts" was the latest one and its a new wave of DC movies aimed at kids.
I think CN is going to want something very kid-friendly, it'll probably be more along the lines of The Batman or Teen Titans Go.



As for this new JLA series I can't get excited until I see character designs and what the tone will be. I'm really betting it'll be a kid-friendly series so those hoping for the next Justice League Unlimited or Young Justice will likely be out of luck.

I'm willing to bet its a series based on Batman Unlimited and the JLA from Animal Instincts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B3xDLdiFxg

No offense Cubed, but how many times are you gonna repeat this? WE GET IT.

[CyberCubed]

OK, but I'm just saying before anyone gets their hopes up for a series similar to JLU or Young Justice in terms of writing or tone.

[BabyTurtles]

If they are making another JLA show....I hope they have more racial diversity in the team.....not just one black dude.

Have Katana, Vixen, Blue Beetle! Anyone!

I don't care if it's not the original league members! We needed more cartoon superhero representation yesterday.

[ZariusTwo]

I read somewhere that the "A" stands for "Action" in this show, and not America.

[The Turtle Terminator]

As long as if it's not like TTG and has Kevin Conroy as Batman I'm all for it

[CyberCubed]

As long as if it's not like TTG and has Kevin Conroy as Batman I'm all for it

LOL, there's like no chance in hell Kevin Conroy is voicing Batman in this. They've been casting new voice actors for Batman for 4 series in a row (The Batman, Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, and Young Justice), and they have Jason O'Mara and tons of other actors voicing Batman in the DVD movies.

WB has been moving away from Kevin Conroy for a long time, he's only really used for the Arkham videogames and the occasional fanservice movie from time to time.

[BabyTurtles]

I read somewhere that the "A" stands for "Action" in this show, and not America.

I always thought the "A" stood for animated XD

[Brodie]

OK, but I'm just saying before anyone gets their hopes up for a series similar to JLU or Young Justice in terms of writing or tone.

There's nothing really wrong with those other movies. They fit perfectly with the tone they're striving for: something geared towards children. To sell toys.

The most inoffensive thing is, at least when you see the toys on the shelf, its all stuff seen in the movies.

[sdp]

How are the Batman Unlimited DTVs? I haven't read anything about them but they seem to be in a similar style to the kid aimed JLA Adventures: Trapped in Time which if I recall correctly was way more popular to the adult aimed JL:War DTV which came out shortly after.

I have to admit the Batman Unlimited designs look kinda cool and I see plenty of characters I always wanted to see or wanted to see more of like Nightwing and Red Robin.

[TurtleTitan97]

Cartoon Network Canada has reportedly confirmed that the series will premiere next fall:http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2015/01/site-news-new-justice-league-animated-series-confirmed/

[CyberCubed]

I'm not terribly excited, its probably going to be like those kid-friendly JLA DVD movies they've recently been putting out like Animal Instincts and such. I think people expecting something like JLU or Young Justice will be disappointed.

[TurtleTitan97]

I'm not terribly excited, its probably going to be like those kid-friendly JLA DVD movies they've recently been putting out like Animal Instincts and such. I think people expecting something like JLU or Young Justice will be disappointed.

You've this exact same thing FOUR times before. For god's sake man, WE GET IT ALREADY. How about waiting for the bloody first image or trailer before you start talking doom and gloom. :roll:

[drgon78]

Well if it is a good show it will last 1-2 seasons, if it isn't then it will last several seasons.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

As long as if it's not like TTG and has Kevin Conroy as Batman I'm all for it

As much as I love Conroy, I'd rather someone else take a stab at voicing Batman. He's not going to be voicing the Dark Knight forever and I for one enjoyed Jason O' Mara and Bruce Greenwood's takes of him.

[Groverman62]

I cant be too excited for this. CN is not very good at handling action shows right now

[MikeandRaph87]

I cant be too excited for this. CN is not very good at handling action shows right now

They did the same with Justice League. Its last season aired at 10PM on Saturdays and it was never advertised at all for its timeslot and internet research to find out when episodes were new.

I would love for a continuation of Justice League in a third take though with more Aquaman and Bat Rogues this time around. I just know not to get my hopes with the Fischer-Price Super Friends and the Elseworlds trilogy that was just released. I am not interested in either of those. Justice League is what got me into reading comics beyond TMNT Adventures.

[CyberCubed]

Its not a continuation of an old series. Also remember Young Justice was canceled because it was too mature for kids and the toyline failed, so I doubt CN wants to do that again.

I'm expecting a very kid-friendly show similar to the DVD JLA movies, The Batman, etc.

[BabyTurtles]

All I ask is that
1) it's 2d animation
2) has tons of racial diversity
3) is not a Teen Titans Go show.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Its not a continuation of an old series. Also remember Young Justice was canceled because it was too mature for kids and the toyline failed, so I doubt CN wants to do that again.

I'm expecting a very kid-friendly show similar to the DVD JLA movies, The Batman, etc.

That's the fifth time. Just because a show is kid-friendly doesn't mean there won't be anything for adults to enjoy. I recall you saying something similar about fans likely complaining about a possible TMNT '12 filler being "kid-friendly" instead of enjoying it for what it is and here you are doing the same thing for a show you've seen no trailers of. Just wait til we get something, then post your thoughts.

[MikeandRaph87]

All I ask is that
1) it's 2d animation
2) has tons of racial diversity
3) is not a Teen Titans Go show.

You essentially described the majority of the Super Friends run.

My ideal JLA lineup is Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkman, and Green Arrow. That is seven white men and one white woman. It is just the fact America was in a time of being a dominantly WASP culture when the Golden and Silver Ages were giving birth to nearly all heroes of any note for two companies. The industry cannot help that. As much I would rather see Hal Jordan over John Stewart Justice League proved even though Stewart was included for the purpose of having a black hero in the bunch he can be a strong character and not a static stereotype of Super Friends diversity. It can be done I just want it to ne because show creators dont include a character just because he is not a WASP or just because she is a woman who can give Wonder Woman another woman on the team.

Black Lightning I would love to see in a reoccurring role.

[BabyTurtles]

You essentially described the majority of the Super Friends run.

My ideal JLA lineup is Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkman, and Green Arrow. That is seven white men and one white woman. It is just the fact America was in a time of being a dominantly WASP culture when the Golden and Silver Ages were giving birth to nearly all heroes of any note for two companies. The industry cannot help that. As much I would rather see Hal Jordan over John Stewart Justice League proved even though Stewart was included for the purpose of having a black hero in the bunch he can be a strong character and not a static stereotype of Super Friends diversity. It can be done I just want it to ne because show creators dont include a character just because he is not a WASP or just because she is a woman who can give Wonder Woman another woman on the team.

Black Lightning I would love to see in a reoccurring role.

Honestly if the new team doesn't have at least 3 minority members on the team then I'm not confident I'll even watch the show.(getting real tired of waiting...I'm becoming bitter) Bonus if the 3 members are each a different race!

I don't care if they gotta dig some members out of the grave to make it happen.

oh and they cant just BE there, they also have to be well written characters.(not a stereotype like you said)
and not shoved to the side.

[Leo656]

Yeah, sorry, that should never be a bullet point. That's when you get pandering bullsh*t like Apache Chief. Sticking guys or (or girls) in there just to "round out the numbers' is a flat-out horrible way to do things. Fact is, most of those characters would be (and have been) abhorred by fans, anyway. Vibe. Gypsy. Heck, the entire "Detroit Era" JLA from 1981-'86 may well have been called "Affirmative Action Justice League"... like, the only white guy was a cyborg android (Commander Steel). All of the characters were created, inserted, and given a very high level of prominence, specifically for the reasons of "Creating Racial Diversity". Nobody gave a sh*t. Vixen was okay, which is why she's the only character from that whole fiasco who still gets any play, but they got the ball for a solid 5 years as the "Official" JLA of record, and the world responded with a resounding, "We want the other characters back." Other than Vixen, the rest of them were either killed off outright, or buried so deep in the ashcan of DC history that their names are only ever mentioned as a huge inside joke. But it's not like they didn't have a chance to shine and catch on; they tried. They were the "official" JLA... not a spin-off, not a subgroup... for about 5 years the JLA simply WAS a showcase for minority super-heroes. News Flash: Minorities didn't all suddenly start picking up the book in huge numbers, just because they felt "represented". Mostly, they didn't like it, because they saw through it for what it was: glad-handing. Pandering. A pat on the head. Passive-aggressively insulting to minorities, rather than empowering to them. Try too hard to "fix" something, you break it, no matter how good your intentions are.

The JLA isn't supposed to be a broad-strokes painting of the entire DCU; they're the Knights of the Round, the Elite; and as it so happens, very few minority characters have become popular enough so that people feel they "deserve" to stand next to Superman. You could blame the writers, you could blame the readers, you could blame society... but when you put Black Lightning - who is awesome - next to Superman and tell people "He's JUST as awesome!"... nobody honestly, really believes it. Sure, he's been in the JLA a couple times... but it doesn't "feel" like he fits. And he and Vixen probably deserve it more than anyone, they're the most popular minority characters DC has... but whenever they do put them in the JLA, everyone reading already knows it's only temporary, because deep down, everyone knows there is a huge gap between Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, and Steel, Cyborg, and Vixen, as far as character hierarchy. And if you're sticking people into a group just to "round out the numbers", well, then it's not the Justice League anymore.

Only the most powerful - and, let's be honest. most popular - characters deserve to be in the JLA. That's why there's a hundred other teams; not everyone makes it to the Majors, some of them are "just" AAA players, and that should be okay too. I'd even take issue with a few of the people MikeandRaph suggested, because frankly I'm not sure Hawkman or Green Arrow are Big Shots, either. I'd even chuck Aquaman, other than "He's always been there so he has to be in", even though he's pretty crummy. I'm like, "If you can't consistently hold your own book for more than 12 issues, no JLA for you. Send your resume to The Outsiders or something."

Grant Morrison had it right. Core Seven. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter, and... sigh... Aquaman. Heaviest hitters only. Everyone else is an "associate member", otherwise you might as well just let anyone in. And not only is that unwieldy, it's silly.

Besides, when did society start filling people's heads with the idea that people can only "identify" with characters that look just like them? I'm old, and trust me, this is a relatively new concept. It's a little insulting, to me, to imply that black kids can't "identify" with Batman because he's white, or that Mexican kids can't look up to and pretend they're Superman, because he doesn't look like them. That's really silly and also plainly false. Beyond that, when I was a kid, it was always understood by all that Martian Manhunter was "the minority character" on the team. The entire idea of the character from the beginning was that he could be representative of any race, color, religion, etc., because he was from friggin' Mars. Must we be SO specific, that we need to go down a checklist? "Okay, we need a black guy, and an Asian one, but not too smart, we don't want to stereotype anyone..." Especially when it means sticking in characters nobody likes, at the expense of more popular ones.
--------

Now, if they want to execute the idea properly without it seeming forced, a better idea would be to toss out the restrictive "JLA" tag. I've always said that "Justice League Unlimited" really should have been called "DC Unlimited", because while it was awesome for what it was and gave a nice, much-deserved showcase to all the other DC characters, not JUST the Core Seven... a lot of those characters weren't specifically Justice League members, so the show's title at that point was a misnomer, branding purposes aside. If you're going to do a show about ALL the DCU characters, don't call it "Justice League", call it "Legends of the DCU" or something like that. Which is a show we need, honestly. I'd be fine with two shows; equal time for everyone. They won't do it, but they should. Then you're getting to showcase your entire roster of characters, without having to water down the JLA with second-stringers "just because".

That just makes too much sense, though.

[BabyTurtles]

Yeah, sorry, that should never be a bullet point. That's when you get pandering bullsh*t like Apache Chief. Sticking guys or (or girls) in there just to "round out the numbers' is a flat-out horrible way to do things. Fact is, most of those characters would be (and have been) abhorred by fans, anyway. Vibe. Gypsy. Heck, the entire "Detroit Era" JLA from 1981-'86 may well have been called "Affirmative Action Justice League"... like, the only white guy was a cyborg android (Commander Steel). All of the characters were created, inserted, and given a very high level of prominence, specifically for the reasons of "Creating Racial Diversity". Nobody gave a sh*t. Vixen was okay, which is why she's the only character from that whole fiasco who still gets any play, but they got the ball for a solid 5 years as the "Official" JLA of record, and the world responded with a resounding, "We want the other characters back." Other than Vixen, the rest of them were either killed off outright, or buried so deep in the ashcan of DC history that their names are only ever mentioned as a huge inside joke. But it's not like they didn't have a chance to shine and catch on; they tried. They were the "official" JLA... not a spin-off, not a subgroup... for about 5 years the JLA simply WAS a showcase for minority super-heroes. News Flash: Minorities didn't all suddenly start picking up the book in huge numbers, just because they felt "represented". Mostly, they didn't like it, because they saw through it for what it was: glad-handing. Pandering. A pat on the head. Passive-aggressively insulting to minorities, rather than empowering to them. Try too hard to "fix" something, you break it, no matter how good your intentions are.

The JLA isn't supposed to be a broad-strokes painting of the entire DCU; they're the Knights of the Round, the Elite; and as it so happens, very few minority characters have become popular enough so that people feel they "deserve" to stand next to Superman. You could blame the writers, you could blame the readers, you could blame society... but when you put Black Lightning - who is awesome - next to Superman and tell people "He's JUST as awesome!"... nobody honestly, really believes it. Sure, he's been in the JLA a couple times... but it doesn't "feel" like he fits. And he and Vixen probably deserve it more than anyone, they're the most popular minority characters DC has... but whenever they do put them in the JLA, everyone reading already knows it's only temporary, because deep down, everyone knows there is a huge gap between Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, and Steel, Cyborg, and Vixen, as far as character hierarchy. And if you're sticking people into a group just to "round out the numbers", well, then it's not the Justice League anymore.

Only the most powerful - and, let's be honest. most popular - characters deserve to be in the JLA. That's why there's a hundred other teams; not everyone makes it to the Majors, some of them are "just" AAA players, and that should be okay too. I'd even take issue with a few of the people MikeandRaph suggested, because frankly I'm not sure Hawkman or Green Arrow are Big Shots, either. I'd even chuck Aquaman, other than "He's always been there so he has to be in", even though he's pretty crummy. I'm like, "If you can't consistently hold your own book for more than 12 issues, no JLA for you. Send your resume to The Outsiders or something."

Grant Morrison had it right. Core Seven. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter, and... sigh... Aquaman. Heaviest hitters only. Everyone else is an "associate member", otherwise you might as well just let anyone in. And not only is that unwieldy, it's silly.

Besides, when did society start filling people's heads with the idea that people can only "identify" with characters that look just like them? I'm old, and trust me, this is a relatively new concept. It's a little insulting, to me, to imply that black kids can't "identify" with Batman because he's white, or that Mexican kids can't look up to and pretend they're Superman, because he doesn't look like them. That's really silly and also plainly false. Beyond that, when I was a kid, it was always understood by all that Martian Manhunter was "the minority character" on the team. The entire idea of the character from the beginning was that he could be representative of any race, color, religion, etc., because he was from friggin' Mars. Must we be SO specific, that we need to go down a checklist? "Okay, we need a black guy, and an Asian one, but not too smart, we don't want to stereotype anyone..." Especially when it means sticking in characters nobody likes, at the expense of more popular ones.
--------

Now, if they want to execute the idea properly without it seeming forced, a better idea would be to toss out the restrictive "JLA" tag. I've always said that "Justice League Unlimited" really should have been called "DC Unlimited", because while it was awesome for what it was and gave a nice, much-deserved showcase to all the other DC characters, not JUST the Core Seven... a lot of those characters weren't specifically Justice League members, so the show's title at that point was a misnomer, branding purposes aside. If you're going to do a show about ALL the DCU characters, don't call it "Justice League", call it "Legends of the DCU" or something like that. Which is a show we need, honestly. I'd be fine with two shows; equal time for everyone. They won't do it, but they should. Then you're getting to showcase your entire roster of characters, without having to water down the JLA with second-stringers "just because".

That just makes too much sense, though.

Leo.....you honestly have no idea how important representation is do you? I can give you good reasons on why it's important.....but I don't think you'll listen to me anyway. (I think I already have before)

And of course poc can relate to white characters, honestly it's not like we have much of a choice.

...maybe it's time for the JLA to change.

[ZariusTwo]

Representation is precisely why so much of the big two companies have gone to the s*its. There's no organic reason for any of it. Miles Morales is about the only time I've tolerated something along those lines.

[BabyTurtles]

Representation is precisely why so much of the big two companies have gone to the s*its. There's no organic reason for any of it. Miles Morales is about the only time I've tolerated something along those lines.

The want/need for representation will never ever go away, in fact people will probably only demand more of it as time goes on.

I do kinda see how hard it is to have more minorities when DC/Marvel is overshadowed by so many iconic white heroes.

I can only think of 3 ways to remedy this...
1. destroy everything and everyone and rebuild something new from the ground up...(that's never gonna happen)

2. start changing some heroes around (which gets people upset the most)

3. push the minority heroes they have.... possibly reinventing some of them so they can stand by the big shots. also add more new minority heroes with their own story and powers. but this is only gonna be successful if the writers care and try their best to make them good. (popularity is a problem though)

either way somethings gotta happen.

[Leo656]

Yeah, no, I'm never going to be in favor of any scenario where we should stick a loser like Vibe on the same level as Superman based on race "or else it isn't fair". The JLA is A-List. As it happens, there's only a handful of minority characters that even come close to that level. That's why there's the JSA, The Titans, The Outsiders, and the godforsaken Blood Pack: Because not everyone can be A-List, for a million different reasons. And when you start letting people "pass" based on arbitrary race quotas, or any kind of "relaxed standards", it obliterates the entire idea of having an A-List.

And the JLA absolutely should only be the A-List. No, that absolutely shouldn't change. And that has nothing to do with race, it has to do with standards. There is a canyon of difference between A-Team and B-Team super-heroes, especially in the DCU, a million things that separate a character like Superman from a character like Mon-El (They're practically the same exact character, except one is an icon and one is someone nobody's ever heard of!). I could easily name 100 characters without even trying who have actually been in the JLA despite having no good reason for it other than they were some writer's "pet character". And that crap is insufferable unless someone like Kieth Giffen is writing it, otherwise it reads like "Substitute Justice League (Sorry, Batman Was Too Busy, But Here's Maxima)". Every time they get too far away from the Core Seven, people stop reading the comics, and they have to reboot it BACK to the Core Seven in order to make people take the JLA seriously again. Like 5 or 6 times now. The JLA people want to see is the Core Seven, give or take a few extras so you have someone to kill off in the summer cross-over.

So, if watering down the JLA with secondary characters nobody cares about always wrecks things in the comics, why on Earth would it be any different in a cartoon show or any other secondary media? It's not even that people don't like those characters, really, but they've proven they absolutely don't care about them as JLA members. Not one person can rightfully argue that Cyborg or Vixen are A-list characters who actually make sense being on the same team as Wonder Woman. And they've had a HUGE push over the years. Whose fault is it that most people still don't care about them very much? Painfully obscure characters don't belong in the Justice League, I don't care if they're black or yellow or pink. "Inclusion" for the sake of it is nothing more than pandering, and that's a whole different kind of offensive.

Again, it's not like black or Hispanic people or girls just started reading comic books yesterday. They've been reading for decades, and for decades there have been minority super-heroes, hundreds of them, ranging from highly competent to highly stereotypical and offensive, and everything in between. Who are we supposed to blame when none of them has been "elevated" in the public's mind to the JLA level? I mean Cyborg's been in the JLA books for like, four years, he was in the "Injustice" game and he's gonna be in the movies, and most people still don't really like it, and they've had plenty of time to get used to it. He's popular, sure, but most people see it as forced inclusion; even though they like him, most people would rather see him with the Titans. Seeing him hang out with Superman and Batman instead of Nightwing and Donna, it's like not even what he would choose for himself, were Victor Stone a real person and not a fictional character being put in this situation by a writer.

Or Black Lightning, a gritty, street-level super-hero, hanging out in a giant citadel on the Moon with a bunch of half-gods? His race is the last thing on the list of 100 reasons why he shouldn't be in the Justice League, even though he occasionally is. He doesn't fit, and trying to make it fit only draws more attention to how badly it doesn't fit. He's a good character, and was better "represented" as being "included" as a heavy-hitter in The Outsiders, another team of Good, But Definitely B-List characters. On the other hand, he wasn't really all that special as a secondary JLA member, overshadowed by all the more powerful, more popular characters. And it's not like they didn't try; they forced that whole thing pretty hard, especially during Final Crisis.

Or getting away from race, how about someone like Zatanna? I love Zatanna. She's great. I don't really like her in the JLA, though. It really stretches the verisimilitude of the stories badly; it's hard enough to explain why Superman can't fix everything by himself and needs a team (my theory: He's really big on passively building up people's self-esteem through selective inaction :tgrin:), but then you have Zatanna waving her wand around and backwards-talking all the bad guys into fluffy bunnies and turtle doves, and it all starts getting a little bit too silly. She's a great character, but not a good JLA member.

And on and on. They have "pushed" minority characters consistently, and it hasn't made readers prefer those characters any more than what they'd always had before. This sudden yearning for "inclusion" is like five minutes old, an invented injustice sprung from the imaginations of people who make it a point to see "exclusion" everywhere. It's a make-believe problem, in this case, it isn't real. It's a real-life problem, sure, but this is comic books, which is completely different. There is an abundance of representation in super-hero fiction. There's also freedom of choice, and the simple fact of life that people like what they like, and they don't like being pandered to.

Color, race, religion, gender... forget the variable. Sticking low-end characters into the JLA damages the brand, no matter who they are. It's not that complicated. Filling a race or gender quota is a whole different kind of offensive. It's flat-out telling people what they're "supposed" to like. Well, people like the JLA when it's the Core Seven, not when it's "Just Anyone, Screw It, We Need More Chicks On The Team."

75 years of super-hero comics, and nobody ever seriously complains about not being represented, especially since the 70s. The things you want to "Happen", actually are "Happening", and have been "happening" since before you were even born, but people still overwhelmingly like what they like, not what you want them to like. That being the case... Maybe it's just you? I don't know. It seems like this problem is more a problem for you than it is most anyone else. You may be over-thinking things a bit, and may do well to relax a little.

[Candy Kappa]

I've seen plenty of comic fans wanting more representation, in articles, podcasts etc. just because you don't see, doesn't man it doesn't exist.

[Leo656]

And just as many who thought Batwing was a dumb idea. Because one Batman is enough, you don't need "Guy Who's Just Like Batman, But Black". Once again, that's pandering. "Look, black people, there's a Batman Just For You!" No, yeah, that's not awful. :roll: If any black person ever said he couldn't relate to Batman because of race, that person has no friends and no life, because they're too busy tilting at windmills.

Those people you speak of are a vast minority, prone to see "injustices" everywhere. That doesn't make their complaints necessarily valid. Especially when DC in particular was pushing female super-heroes and minority super-heroes hard and fast early on, decades before anyone even complained about stuff like this. DC "force-feeds" its readers "progressive" characters and concepts as a general rule and has from the beginning. So again, who do we blame that they're not more popular? To say they haven't been "pushed" is a blatant lie. People simply don't like those characters as much as other characters. Telling them they're "supposed" to hasn't "fixed" it. What then?

[BabyTurtles]

ya know~ since race doesn't matter Leo,

Let's just start changing some iconic character's races. It doesn't matter right? I mean it's just race, it's not like you wouldn't be able to relate to them still. I say we shoot for a Black Superman, a Hispanic Wonderwomen and an Asian Batman.

I mean why not? it literally doesn't matter and their stories can be exactly the same.

[Candy Kappa]

Okay, you give a example of a bad "minority" character like Batwing (I found the idea interesting but not read any so I'll take your word for it) But, how about something easier?

Aquaman is played by Jason Momoa, a Hawaiian. How about incorporate that into the next JLA cartoon version of Aquaman, have a Hawaiian voice actor and design implementations. Is the Rock still going to play Black Adam? Incorperate incorporate African or Samoan into the character.

Is Blue Beetle guest starring an episode? Use Jaime Rayes as the current Beetle. Is Superman having an episode where he meets himself from a different universe? Have him meet Calvin Ellis the black Superman. Have black Perry White from MoS. John Stewart Green Lantern, or Earth-2 Alan Scott as this incarnation's earth's main Green Lantern. A episode that focuses on Batman and Batgirl could have Alysia Yeoh in it, there's also Bab's friend who sorta is hinted to be her "Oracle" in future installments in the comics iirc. Hawkman and Hawkgirl, be it Egyptian reincarnations or aliens aren't essential to be pasty white.

Plenty of stuff to do. The square jawed cishet white male superhero isn't going to be taken away.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeesh. This again? I have to say, Leo's got the right of it as to pandering and representation. Heck, half the X-Men are minority races! Or female. Or both. And then we had the recent FF movie- which flopped BADLY. In this case, race (of Johnny and his dad) was a big part of the reason why. Because they did it for "representation", just because, and it failed. MISERABLY.

It's not that minorities can't identify with the main heroes, because those heroes represent certain CORE values that ANYONE can have or relate to. That's the whole POINT of why they are the main heroes. They are flawed, to be sure, but they are heroes who persevere, and who strive to do the right thing no matter what the situation. And ANYONE can aspire to that ideal. Actually, EVERYONE should. We've had minority heroes for decades, and as Leo has rightly pointed out. The vast majority of those haven't caught on because they just aren't that good or interesting compared to the icons. I mean, there are plenty of fans of Psylocke, but she doesn't have her own book, and rarely ever did. Same with Danni Moonstar, or Cannonball, Sunspot, Warpath, or any of dozens of other minority heroes.

Occasionally you get a really good one like Luke Cage, Black Panther, Storm, or Jubilee. But even then, they are never quite as popular or well-known as the REAL icons. Why is that, if not because people simply identify better with the heroes that are older and more well-rounded due to familiarity and exposure? It's pretty simple, really. It's as true of DC as it has been of Marvel. They have both been around long enough to have been through all this before- more than once, in fact. And it always comes back to the core characters.

[MikeandRaph87]

ya know~ since race doesn't matter Leo,

Let's just start changing some iconic character's races. It doesn't matter right? I mean it's just race, it's not like you wouldn't be able to relate to them still. I say we shoot for a Black Superman, a Hispanic Wonderwomen and an Asian Batman.

I mean why not? it literally doesn't matter and their stories can be exactly the same.

They tried that hard too. Remember just under a decade ago Atom disappeared only for an Asian to take the MIA characters name and share his power. He got his own title by a popular writer and it was nothing, but " hey I am the Atom an ratabliahed secondaey hero! I am also Asian!" Palmer was not killed off but his character eas screwed big time. Choi was killed off due to a lack of popularity courtesy of deathstroke after a few years then resurrected with the reboot. He failed again in a title.

Blue Bettle a lower end but notable secondary hero was suddenly killed off as a sacrifical lamb for a crisis. He was then immediately replaced by a minority youth with no characterization. He even got other media exposure in Batman : The Brave and The Bold along with two failed titles. He never came close to Ted Kord's cult following and for some reason is still around using an established identity and like Atom is removed for the sole purpose of a minority replacing him in an established role. DC probably thought it low enough character it would work, but it was more backlash then appeasement for making a minority into a already rstabliahed mantle.

Just as The Question was finally getting attention aside from the brief series from the late 80s' thanks the inclusion in later Justice League episodes and coming off as an unique badass he dies of lung cancer only to be replaced not just by a Hispanic but a Hispanic woman who was retconbed into being gay for the sake of being gay and throwing it in the readers face of her huge minority status. If I wee DC I would have attempted to have The Question as a reoccuring character or a supoorting charactet taking advantage of the animated push like it did with John Stewart. Montoya was good enough as a cop who just happened to be a minority. Dont know if she even appears anymore.

[BabyTurtles]

They tried that hard too. Remember just under a decade ago Atom disappeared only for an Asian to take the MIA characters name and share his power. He got his own title by a popular writer and it was nothing, but " hey I am the Atom an ratabliahed secondaey hero! I am also Asian!" Palmer was not killed off but his character eas screwed big time. Choi was killed off due to a lack of popularity courtesy of deathstroke after a few years then resurrected with the reboot. He failed again in a title.

Blue Bettle a lower end but notable secondary hero was suddenly killed off as a sacrifical lamb for a crisis. He was then immediately replaced by a minority youth with no characterization. He even got other media exposure in Batman : The Brave and The Bold along with two failed titles. He never came close to Ted Kord's cult following and for some reason is still around using an established identity and like Atom is removed for the sole purpose of a minority replacing him in an established role. DC probably thought it low enough character it would work, but it was more backlash then appeasement for making a minority into a already rstabliahed mantle.

Just as The Question was finally getting attention aside from the brief series from the late 80s' thanks the inclusion in later Justice League episodes and coming off as an unique badass he dies of lung cancer only to be replaced not just by a Hispanic but a Hispanic woman who was retconbed into being gay for the sake of being gay and throwing it in the readers face of her huge minority status. If I wee DC I would have attempted to have The Question as a reoccuring character or a supoorting charactet taking advantage of the animated push like it did with John Stewart. Montoya was good enough as a cop who just happened to be a minority. Dont know if she even appears anymore.

I was actually being sarcastic. XD

More than anything I just want DC to push their already minority heroes harder and write them better. Let them be the center of attention for once.

[Autbot_Benz]

And just as many who thought Batwing was a dumb idea. Because one Batman is enough, you don't need "Guy Who's Just Like Batman, But Black". Once again, that's pandering. "Look, black people, there's a Batman Just For You!" No, yeah, that's not awful. :roll: If any black person ever said he couldn't relate to Batman because of race, that person has no friends and no life, because they're too busy tilting at windmills.

Those people you speak of are a vast minority, prone to see "injustices" everywhere. That doesn't make their complaints necessarily valid. Especially when DC in particular was pushing female super-heroes and minority super-heroes hard and fast early on, decades before anyone even complained about stuff like this. DC "force-feeds" its readers "progressive" characters and concepts as a general rule and has from the beginning. So again, who do we blame that they're not more popular? To say they haven't been "pushed" is a blatant lie. People simply don't like those characters as much as other characters. Telling them they're "supposed" to hasn't "fixed" it. What then?

Ghostbuster Reboot in a nutshell.

[MikeandRaph87]

Ghostbuster Reboot in a nutshell.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/8KPQA/exactamundo/image.png?w=400&c=1

They could have chosen better actresses too if they were going to go this ridiculous route too.:ohwell: Not like I am going to see it anyway. Its best left as one classic film and one okay film.

[Leo656]

This argument never stops being stupid. There's plenty of minority characters, they all get plenty of play, there's zero need to "switch" anyone for the sake of forced inclusion, and the only thing "holding back" any of those characters is that people simply don't like them as much.

That, and most people just plain aren't looking that hard at everything, trying to inject some kind of SJW crusader nonsense into an adolescent male power fantasy where people solve all the world's problems with punching. That's not the venue for this kind of affirmative action stuff.

And again, people keep making this whole thing about race because it's a nice little black-and-white (pun fully intended) argument to pick nits over, but that completely disregards the other, stronger point that second-stringers of ANY color have no business being in the JLA, and it's wrong to force someone in who doesn't deserve it, "Just Because They're A (________)". I've had it up to my neck with this "Everyone Gets A Ribbon For Showing Up" bullsh*t people are into now. You know when Zatanna, Static or Vixen should be in the JLA? When ANY of them can carry their own book for more than 6-12 issues.

Once again, I'm fully in favor of a broader-focused show that showcases the entire DC pantheon, because while the exclusivity of the JLA is important, it also means by definition they can't properly showcase every good character that DC has without watering it down. Actually, there's a neat idea. "DC Showcase" was an amazing book that ran for a good long while, specifically for the purpose of putting a spotlight on lesser-known characters. A lot of them got mini-series and occasional on-goings out of it. There's a thing we should have, a "DC Showcase" cartoon; that's even an awesome name for a series. Like "Brave and the Bold" was the "Batman Teams Up With..." show, "Showcase" could be kind of the "This Episode Is All About (_____)" show. They could even do spotlight episodes about teams, like The Outsiders or the New Titans, or an episode all about the Green Lantern Corps, along with solo shots for characters like Blue Beetle and Supergirl. That would be awesome. Now that I thought of it, I want it really bad. :ohwell: I want a JLA show, too, but I want both. And I want the shows to occasionally cross over and for stuff to blow up.

I want that way, way more than I want them sticking random people in the JLA just because they don't know what else to do with 'em. There's much better ways to give everyone equal time. For starters, someone needs to cut me a check for my Showcase idea.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I like this idea, Leo. Actually, I feel the same way about the Avengers. There are far too many second-stringers there, too, and many of them are just for "inclusion's" sake. I can understand some of them, like Falcon or Black Panther- they can at least hang with the big boys. But some of the "reserve Avengers" just don't make sense. For that matter, having all those minority characters on the A-list team just reeks of trying to make everyone happy, when in fact it does the opposite. Keep it to the core members, with maybe the occasional "guest star" joining for an issue or two, but not as a permanent member.

I think both of the Big Two could benefit from an ongoing series that showcases some of the lesser-known characters. I mean, We know that characters like Squirrel Girl can't carry her own book long term, and neither could Colleen Wing, White Tiger, or Blue Shield (yes, he's an actual character) or even Sunspot, but they could easily have a single issue centered around them in a collective book that does as you suggested. Or less-popular teams like the Great Lakes Avengers (no, they are not actually a joke- they might be C-listers, but they still get the job done!). Or, heck, even Impossible Man. Not that anyone has ever clamored for a book with him as the lead.

[Commenter 42]

That, and most people just plain aren't looking that hard at everything, trying to inject some kind of SJW crusader nonsense into an adolescent male power fantasy where people solve all the world's problems with punching. That's not the venue for this kind of affirmative action stuff.

And again, people keep making this whole thing about race because it's a nice little black-and-white (pun fully intended) argument to pick nits over, but that completely disregards the other, stronger point that second-stringers of ANY color have no business being in the JLA, and it's wrong to force someone in who doesn't deserve it, "Just Because They're A (________)". I've had it up to my neck with this "Everyone Gets A Ribbon For Showing Up" bullsh*t people are into now.
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[TurtleTitan97]

Once again, I'm fully in favor of a broader-focused show that showcases the entire DC pantheon, because while the exclusivity of the JLA is important, it also means by definition they can't properly showcase every good character that DC has without watering it down. Actually, there's a neat idea. "DC Showcase" was an amazing book that ran for a good long while, specifically for the purpose of putting a spotlight on lesser-known characters. A lot of them got mini-series and occasional on-goings out of it. There's a thing we should have, a "DC Showcase" cartoon; that's even an awesome name for a series. Like "Brave and the Bold" was the "Batman Teams Up With..." show, "Showcase" could be kind of the "This Episode Is All About (_____)" show. They could even do spotlight episodes about teams, like The Outsiders or the New Titans, or an episode all about the Green Lantern Corps, along with solo shots for characters like Blue Beetle and Supergirl. That would be awesome. Now that I thought of it, I want it really bad. :ohwell: I want a JLA show, too, but I want both. And I want the shows to occasionally cross over and for stuff to blow up.


I could totally see this working.

[sdp]

I completely agree with Leo on this one oddly enough, I just don't think he came off well at explaining his point very well. I'm not a fan of the JL having second stringers either, Avengers has indeed become a joke like how everyone became a Titan in the Teen Titans cartoon because it had happened in the comics but over decades while in the cartoon it had to happen within a few seasons and the same is happening with the movies.

Now I love shows with racial diversity, I'm a big fan of them but I don't like it when it's forced. A show like Captain Planet or the Magic School Bus are made fun of by having too much diversity but it works. When a show has a random black friend for no reason sometimes it comes off badly, I can't think of an example but it sometimes just doesn't work I don't know why, I mean look at Hey Arnold! It works perfectly there but it just doesn't work in other shows. Now I absolutely hate when they radically change characters race to have diversity. Sometimes it works like The Kingpin in DareDevil or when it's a white American character to a White Brittish character, but I hate other choices like making Perry White black or Mr. Thompson a Whoopi Goldberg. Just create new interesting characters. I love Diggle in Arrow but making Kid Flash black? ugh. Green Lantern being black in JL works great since he's not supposed to be the original, promoting Cyborg to the JL? Not so much. Jeeze, it pisses me off when they change characters and it's clearly noticeable. Another great example is in the Spawn movie they made Al's best friend white so people wouldn't think it'd be a "black" movie. F-ck that

If they really want diversity then make great new characters that people like and are able to join, I remember being really happy how Static was a member of the JL in the future, it made sense. Black Panther in the avengers works (well at least much better than f'n Hawkguy) but Falcon just doesn't.


As far as a new JLA cartoon, I'm excited for it even if it's aimed at a younger audience as long as it's fun. Serious DC is fun but so can a more kid friendly version as we've seen before. Of course it being kid friendly could also mean it is indeed just a boring show but we'll see when it's out.

[Candy Kappa]

yup, all characters needs too be heterosexual white guys and girls can only come to visit if they wear bathing suit costumes or less.

Same procedure as usual.:roll:

[Leo656]

Since we're all in favor of putting characters nobody cares about in the Justice League just to keep it "fair for everyone", why don't we just let someone in a wheelchair pitch for the Yankees? That's "fair", right? I mean, just because they clearly aren't a "Major League" star of the same caliber as A-Rod, why should they be left out, right? Just toss 'em in there. Let the guy who cuts the grass take a swing, f*ck it, he practically lives there. Give everyone a turn.

Or would that just be completely unreasonable, because it's just implicitly understood that the person in question had no rightful business being in that situation, unless we're judging based on pity rather than merit? C'mon.

Seriously. Not everything need be a goddamn crusade. Until the internet created a society of victims who see oppression and make-believe injustice everywhere they look, nobody cared about this sh*t.

I mean seriously, C'mon man. Look what you're asking us to do:
http://samurai.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0907/multi-culture-pals-black-vulcan-apache-chief-superfriends-su-demotivational-poster-1248946422.jpg

Yeah, no, things are fine. We definitely don't need any of that again. Yeesh. Don't pick at the scab, it took forever to heal.

[Candy Kappa]

I love how you use some of the worst characters to brush off all form of inclusion. I guess my previous post went to deaf ears.

Come on, you're using someone who has wind powers but calls himself Samurai, because he's Japanese as your "Inclusion leads to crappiness you guys". Or Apache Chief cause he's Native American so he have to have a Indian name instead of something related to his actual powers.

When did suggesting to make Aquaman's new cartoon design correlate with a Native Hawaiian descent playing him in the LA movies be the same as bringing back a Guy calling himself Samurai solely because he's Japanese, it's like Batman had named himself The Newenglander. How about not having the character’s superhero persona being based on their ethnic origin.

[Leo656]

Well, to be fair, the point about B and C-Listers having zero place in the JLA A-Team for any reason period was solidly made, so the rest of it was just me being colorful. :lol: C'mon, those guys are adorable. F***in' El Dorado. That's precious. :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

CK, as much as it mightgall some people, he's absolutely right about second-stringers, no matter what their race or whatever. Doesn't matter if they are black, white, or alien. They just don't belong with top tier heroes. And Hawkeye is not a second-stringer, he's a founding member of the Avengers. And Falcon has also been a member for almost as long as he's existed. And there's a reason for that.

[Candy Kappa]

CK, as much as it mightgall some people, he's absolutely right about second-stringers, no matter what their race or whatever. Doesn't matter if they are black, white, or alien. They just don't belong with top tier heroes. And Hawkeye is not a second-stringer, he's a founding member of the Avengers. And Falcon has also been a member for almost as long as he's existed. And there's a reason for that.

Hence why my suggestions wasn't kicking out "A-tiers" in favor off "C-lister" who happens to be non-white.

[Candy Kappa]

Although, if the show is going to use Wally West as the current Flash, he might be based off the New 52 version who's biracial. The Flash TV show have cast Keiynan Lonsdale to play Wally West in season 2, so it's very likely.

[MikeandRaph87]

Although, if the show is going to use Wally West as the current Flash, he might be based off the New 52 version who's biracial. The Flash TV show have cast Keiynan Lonsdale to play Wally West in season 2, so it's very likely.

That is another thing. A classic character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 30.

[sdp]

I wonder how many of the people complaining are even minorities. That's who the justice league is, you can't change that fact. Are we going to retcon Han Solo as being black because the original movie had no black characters? No, you make a new interesting character like the new movie is making. Lando becoming a part of the cast in RotJ worked as well but making a character who doesn't make sense a major character for the sake of diversity is just stupid. I'm sorry you either like the all white JL or you don't. I don't expect other classic stories to change, if you're so upset just then like something else. I feel the same way with complains about female character outfits or randomly making someone gay for the sake of it. But those are other types of discussions. Sucks to be Irish since now the only known popular Irish hero is now black.

[Candy Kappa]

That is another thing. A siccrssfil character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 3.0.

I'm not sure why a black Wally West can't be fun loving in a TV show? And there exists black gingers if his hair color was that essential.

[MikeandRaph87]

I like your idea Leo. Legends of the DC Universe taking off the late 90s/ early 2000s title could work. It could be a team up or an individual or a look at the JSA or The original Outsidwrs sans Batman. I would watch it and a toy opportunity to make money from the younger set.

I see you dont care for Ollie and Carter being in the heavy hitter JLA lineup I would have forva tv show. I think of it as three sets of three. First Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Then Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash. Finally the third group of three is Green Arrow, Hawkman, and Martian Manhunter. Asd in Captain Marvel and three sidekicks Robin, Batgirl, and Dupetgirl and those are DC's biggest characters and even half of them could not hold a title alone.

I like the Satellite wra because its the first string along with most second string heroes of DC pre-crisis and would love to relive that which I missed when it was printed in some form.

[CyberCubed]

I don't even care how many black, asian, indian, muslim, jewish, etc. superheroes are in a TV show. Just make a good series and stop changing character races for the hell of it.

[TurtleTitan97]

That is another thing. A classic character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 30.

That doesn't make any sense. How is the fact that he's black suppose to keep Wally from acting the same as before?

[BabyTurtles]

That doesn't make any sense. How is the fact that he's black suppose to keep Wally from acting the same as before?

It doesn't. People just don't like the idea of Wally being black.

[Leo656]

Actually, for once I agree with sdp (although I can't tell for sure if they were being serious or just joking). Dead serious, as an Irish kid with a lot of red-haired kids in my family it was always neat seeing a little contrast from all the guys looking almost exclusively like Clark Kent. It wasn't the main thing I liked about The Flash, nor is it the biggest deal in the world now as an adult, but it was indeed something I liked, because in my family we take our heritage seriously (though not to an obsessive degree). So I DO get the whole "Seeing yourself represented" thing. Usually when "My People" get to be super-heroes, they're a f***in' joke. So I get it, and Wally being of Celtic descent did, in some small way, get me a little more invested into his character over the years.

I just think it's annoying that "white minorities" supposedly aren't as important to represent. Think about it; Wally West was an Irish character who wasn't immediately a stereotype like Banshee or whoever. That's almost as rare as a black character who doesn't have "Black" right in their name. But when they need to "flip" someone to black just to even out the numbers, he's up for grabs because "white minorities don't matter, they don't need to be represented". It tells me "My People" aren't as necessary to be "included" as "Your People". Because "White Is White", right? Except that it isn't, there ARE white minorities, and it's insulting to insinuate they don't deserve to be included because "there's already too many white guys."

That's just as f***ed up whether you think it is or it isn't. Not all shades of "white" are equal, and my people have faced more than their share of inequality and exclusion, too. That's why you shouldn't do things like that; just leave established things alone and come up with new things. You simply can't have forced "inclusion" without marginalizing someone else.

This is the ultimate irony of it: The people arguing for "more representation" because "race shouldn't matter", end up making what race the characters are the main primary thing of importance, thus, to them, race becomes the ONLY thing that matters. I.E., "I won't watch a show without X number of minorities in it." "I don't care if Your Group is marginalized, as long as My Group is given a push." Yet race doesn't/shouldn't matter.

Seriously. :roll: People need to really listen to themselves more before they marry themselves to a cause.

[Candy Kappa]

we get it, black people cant have Irish or Celtic descent in them (oh wait.)


Man, I'm gonna have great time seeing the Internet freak out the day we get a Arabian descent James Bond, it's gonna be glorious.

[BabyTurtles]

Seriously?? Put some red-hair on black Wally then! Red-headed black people do exist.

Heck there are TONS of red-heads in DC and Marvel already!!

ya know if you are gonna start that red-head debate then let's talk about the fact how there are different Asians, Africans, ect that aren't represented either.

And race does matter! Of course we shouldn't be prejudice against anyone's race but we should also want represent different races in media for representation. Race is apart of us and we should be proud of who we are and where we came from.

ya know you really shouldn't start that red-head debate, cause there are different Asians, Africans, ect that aren't represented either.

[Leo656]

You know exactly what I mean.

You know what was great? When I was a kid reading comics and watching cartoons with all my black and Hispanic and "misc." friends, and nobody gave a sh*t about nonsense like this.

No, it doesn't matter. Black people and their preferences weren't suddenly invented yesterday. They've been reading comics for decades and yet Black Panther still doesn't outsell Spider-Man. And yet, nobody EVER really cried about it, until 5 minutes ago, when the internet told them to.

Seriously. Boggles the mind, I know, that once upon a time people didn't insist on sticking SJW bullsh*t into something as inconsequential as super-heroes. The amount of people who want to see every white character changed to a non-white character, even among people of color, is an infinite minority compared to those who completely don't give a sh*t and would rather see more effort be put into creating minority characters who aren't stereotypes. This "problem" of "too many crackers" is one of many cases of phony moral outrage created by the internet. But again, "injustices" everywhere, "problems" needing to be "fixed". While the only "fixing" comes from the exact wrong direction, trumpeting reverse-discrimination as if it's "progress" instead of just another form of racism, which is all it is if anyone wants to be honest.

Think about it. Hollywood is incapable of writing a black character that doesn't talk like either Will Smith or Madea. And yet, you're going to make "progress" by making all established white fictional characters black, Asian, Hispanic, female, or gay. That'll fix everything! :roll:

Somehow, I'm positive it doesn't work that way. At best, it's attacking the wrong problem, and at worst, all it is is reverse-racism. Especially when minority characters have existed in fiction for ages, and minorities still overwhelmingly prefer the white characters. BUT, that flies in the face of SJW "logic" - "How dare black people generally prefer reading about white super-heroes when we gave them a bunch of characters just for them?" - so to "fix" the problem, just make all the more popular characters into minorities! Then everyone "wins"! Except NOW you're telling minorities that the only way they can be properly "represented" is by appropriating a pre-existing, already established, more popular character. "Black Lighting and Static aren't more popular? Silly black people, they don't know what they should like! Let's give 'em Flash and Captain America!"

Can you SEE what a pandering, bullsh*t, horribly offensive message that is? Why it's NOT "progressive", it's in fact really, really patronizing? "Minority characters cannot achieve an 'acceptable' level of popularity. We could attack the problem of 'Why not?', and maybe write those characters better and actually try and elevate them, but that is difficult. Instead we will take a character everyone already likes and paint them a different color, because that is easy." It assumes people are so desperate to be "included" that they'll accept any pat on the head they can get, even if it's mostly an illusion.

This issue is so much more complicated than "take a white guy and paint him" can properly address. But frankly, if you're reading super-hero comics and the majority of your time is counting how many ethnic or disabled or sexual orientation groups are being misrepresented, you're probably not having much fun, you might be pursuing the wrong hobby, and would almost certainly be happier doing almost anything else with your time.

If the race of a character is the main reason you read a book or watch a movie, or why you WON'T do those things, then go do something else and stop taking things so seriously. Holy f***ing sh*t.

[TurtleTitan97]

It doesn't. People just don't like the idea of Wally being black.

It's understandable though. As someone who grew up associating Wally West with the Flash identity, the sudden race change in the comics is still somewhat jarring. It's taken some time to get used to.

I just hope, personality-wise, once Wally appears on the CW show he'll act more like classic Wally and be Flash's biggest fanboy and less like the rebel New 52 version.

[CyberCubed]

Wait what? Wally West was changed into a black person in the comics? Is this true? I'm honestly just finding out about this now.

[BabyTurtles]

It's understandable though. As someone who grew up associating Wally West with the Flash identity, the sudden race change in the comics is still somewhat jarring. It's taken some time to get used to.

I just hope, personality-wise, once Wally appears on the CW show he'll act more like classic Wally and be Flash's biggest fanboy and less like the rebel New 52 version.

Believe me I understand.

I love Young Justice Wally~ He's my favorite character. I hope that if they do keep the Wally is black thing in future shows, they have him act similar to YJ Wally.

[Commenter 42]

I'm not sure why a black Wally West can't be fun loving in a TV show? And there exists black gingers if his hair color was that essential.

I mean, honestly! It's not like gingers are a minority or anything, right?
2% of the population is plenty. They got their heroes already, Ronald McDonald, carrot top, and others...

I mean, there's just so many ginger role models, we need to replace some of them with a black dude. Screw the gingers. There's too many of them already!

Jimmy Olsen, Walley West, April O'neal, Black Widow, Lex Luthor...

All those ginger actors, hogging all those jobs.

The horror.

[BabyTurtles]

I mean, honestly! It's not like gingers are a minority or anything, right?
2% of the population is plenty. They got their heroes already, Ronald McDonald, carrot top.

I mean, there's just so many ginger role models, gotta replace them with a black dude. Screw the gingers. There's too many of them already!

Well there are alot at least in comics.

Starfire
Jean Grey
Batgirl
Aqualad's wife
poison Ivy
Red arrow
Had Wally for a while, might still have him
Miss Martian
Dare Devil (is he a red-head??)
HawkGirl for the longest time
Lady Medusa
Mystique
Mary Jane
Iris for the longest time
April O Neil should get a mention
heck WonderWomen in one instance.
Batwomen

Edit: saw your post! forgot about Jimmy and Black Widow! XD oops


Disney
Ariel and Merida and Anna and Kim Possible


Pretty sure I'm missing alot more....anyone want to help me out?

though asking for more red-heads is like me asking for more darker black people to represented....(and that's not included the fact we just need more black people in general.)

anywho~ We don't need to replace anyone just introduce more minority characters and push the ones they have.

[Commenter 42]

Well there are alot at least in comics.

Starfire
Jean Grey
Batgirl
Aqualad's wife
poison Ivy
Red arrow
Had Wally for a while, might still have him
Miss Martian
Dare Devil (is he a red-head??)
HawkGirl for the longest time
Lady Medusa
Mystique
Mary Jane
Iris for the longest time
April O Neil should get a mention
heck WonderWomen in one instance.
Batwomen

Edit: saw your post! forgot about Jimmy and Black Widow! XD oops


Disney
Ariel and Merida and Anna and Kim Possible


Pretty sure I'm missing alot more....anyone want to help me out?

though asking for more red-heads is like me asking for more darker black people to represented....(and that's not included the fact we just need more black people in general.)

anywho~ We don't need to replace anyone just introduce more minority characters and push the ones they have.

I think the point I was making, was to ask yourself how many gingers, get to play gingers. The answer, may surprise you.

And no, gingers are not just like blue eyed/green eyed people.

Gingers are the most hated minority on the planet.

Even the word ginger is just a fun rearrangement of the n word.

But sure, let's pass them over, and give their jobs to a "minority"

[BabyTurtles]

I think the point I was making, was to ask yourself how many gingers, get to play gingers. The answer, may surprise you.

And no, gingers are not just like blue eyed/green eyed people.

Gingers are the most hated minority on the planet.

Even the word ginger is just a fun rearrangement of the n word.

But sure, let's pass them over, and give their jobs to a "minority"

http://media.giphy.com/media/QVlGEBzzBiCfC/giphy.gif

[Cure]

Sassy gifs are a great way to show how serious you are about the point you're making.

[Leo656]

I generally look forward to and appreciate them though. That's her gimmick!

[Commenter 42]

[QUOTE=BabyTurtles;1509276]http://media.giphy.com/media/QVlGEBzzBiCfC/giphy.gif

So, this isn't a thing?

http://kick-a-ginger-day.com/

I don't recall any other days dedicated to kicking minorities. Pretty sure that would be classified as a hate crime.

[BabyTurtles]

[QUOTE=BabyTurtles;1509276]http://media.giphy.com/media/QVlGEBzzBiCfC/giphy.gif

So, this isn't a thing?

http://kick-a-ginger-day.com/

I don't recall any other days dedicated to kicking minorities. Pretty sure that would be classified as a hate crime.

Never said it wasn't but actually saying that red-heads are the most hated minorities on the planet?

really?

[Commenter 42]

[QUOTE=Commenter 42;1509284]

Never said it wasn't but actually saying that red-heads are the most hated minorities on the planet?

really?
Go ahead, name a physical minority with more hate.
It's universal and un compromised. Google it.

Redheads get 0 respect.

Don't get me started on albinos.

[Leo656]

I've personally had it up to about here with the f***in' Portugese.

[BabyTurtles]

Funny how this all started just cause I wanted only 3 minorities on the team :D

[TurtleTitan97]

Funny how this all started just cause I wanted only 3 minorities on the team :D

They probably will be. If the teaser poster is an indication, the show won't just focus on the core seven members of the Justice League.

[Commenter 42]

I've personally had it up to about here with the f***in' Portugese.

Damn irritating. Women are fine as hell though.

Masons are pretty terrible too. I get into it with Anglophiles every now and again.

Yo, in highschool, I had my people, we stuck together the way you do right - but the one orange haired kid, and his freaky sister...the **** people did to them.

So anytime people bring race into the conversation, I think about that kid.

A'int nothing worse, c'ept being a ginger midget maybe. Can you imagine March 17? Every damn year...

Would be tough. Would be real tough....

Let's pour one out... For the orange haired freak and his sister/wife.
My man.

[BabyTurtles]

There probably will be. If the teaser poster is an indication, the show won't just focus on the core seven members of the Justice League.

I just hope they are main characters also not just heroes that pop in now and then.

[Commenter 42]

Shhh!!

C'mon now, we're pouring one out!
We need a minute of silence!


See...no respect. It's a crime.

[Leo656]

Funny how this all started just cause I wanted only 3 minorities on the team :D

Funny in a sense, but it's important to note that that's simply not a good way to judge if a show, book, movie, or thing, is "Good" or "Bad". Things don't gain or lose merit and/or value because of how closely they adhere to an arbitrary Standards Of Inclusion checklist. That's why that particular comment invited a reaction.

Plus, it sounds horrible when flipped upside down. If a person were to say, "I'll only support a show with at least three white characters", nobody even has to point out why that's a bad thing to say. And it goes both ways. That really shouldn't be part of one's criteria regardless.

If it's a good show it'll be because it's well-executed, and if it's poor it will be because it's poorly executed. Not because it has "One Of Everyone" or not. That's absolutely not what ever makes anything good or bad, better or worse. They could just as well meet the imaginary numbers of acceptable inclusion, and the show could still be horribly written, in which case all that would matter is that it was bad.

It probably won't be bad, though. For some reason I expect something more like Brave and the Bold but with less focus on just Batman. So probably skewed a little younger than JLU, but along the same lines. Like I said, I prefer a show called "JLA" be focused on the actual JLA, not be a generic "DC Universe" show, which is what this is more likely to be, but in the end, it can be mislabeled but still be a good show. I just hope it doesn't skew TOO young. Young Justice was a little gloomy but something a few shades lighter than that wouldn't be bad. Frankly, if I had any say in it, JL/JLU never would've ended. Can't have everything, sadly. :lol:

[BabyTurtles]

Funny in a sense, but it's important to note that that's simply not a good way to judge if a show, book, movie, or thing, is "Good" or "Bad". Things don't gain or lose merit and/or value because of how closely they adhere to an arbitrary Standards Of Inclusion checklist. That's why that particular comment invited a reaction.

Plus, it sounds horrible when flipped upside down. If a person were to say, "I'll only support a show with at least three white characters", nobody even has to point out why that's a bad thing to say. And it goes both ways. That really shouldn't be part of one's criteria regardless.

If it's a good show it'll be because it's well-executed, and if it's poor it will be because it's poorly executed. Not because it has "One Of Everyone" or not. That's absolutely not what ever makes anything good or bad, better or worse. They could just as well meet the imaginary numbers of acceptable inclusion, and the show could still be horribly written, in which case all that would matter is that it was bad.

It probably won't be bad, though. For some reason I expect something more like Brave and the Bold but with less focus on just Batman. So probably skewed a little younger than JLU, but along the same lines. Like I said, I prefer a show called "JLA" be focused on the actual JLA, not be a generic "DC Universe" show, which is what this is more likely to be, but in the end, it can be mislabeled but still be a good show. I just hope it doesn't skew TOO young. Young Justice was a little gloomy but something a few shades lighter than that wouldn't be bad. Frankly, if I had any say in it, JL/JLU never would've ended. Can't have everything, sadly. :lol:

I guess you are right in a way, I just have been so impatient lately when it comes to more diversity.

The Vixen show just upset me because, we FINALLY got a black girl hero, something I would have loved as a kid....but it's not even given the chance to be on TV or at least have a longer show....and I know it's because she's not a well-known hero.....but then if Vixen can't be given a full show then what black female can? (that's a superhero)....heck I'd take an animated movie.

Maybe she will cameo in live action...who knows...but an animated show would have been a dream come true.

Still I'll be sad if the new JLA show doesn't have some diversity regardless of how well it does.

[sdp]

The Justice League doesn't leave much more room for Diversity than what Bruce Timm's JL show didn't already have. The only other option is having the "JLU" scenario that JLU used as did Young Justice. Now that we're moving on from the topic of race and back to the show, I actually do think this show will have plenty of racial diversity, I think this will be a "DC Friends" show more than a proper JL show. I mean we don't know anything about the show yet but I do think it'll be like the Trapped in Time JL DTV and the two Batman Unlimited videos. I haven't seen them yet but apparently they're fairly entertaining even if not "adult".

I guess you are right in a way, I just have been so impatient lately when it comes to more diversity.

The Vixen show just upset me because, we FINALLY got a black girl hero, something I would have loved as a kid....but it's not even given the chance to be on TV or at least have a longer show....and I know it's because she's not a well-known hero.....but then if Vixen can't be given a full show then what black female can? (that's a superhero)....heck I'd take an animated movie.

Maybe she will cameo in live action...who knows...but an animated show would have been a dream come true.

Still I'll be sad if the new JLA show doesn't have some diversity regardless of how well it does.


Well I think you're lucky to even be getting that, what female superhero gets her own show or movie? Not very often since it's a tough sell so when you add a C-list hero and black to it you're lucky to even be getting that. I don't really care much for Vixen but it's cool in my book she's getting this and I'm sure she'll eventually appear in one of the three live action CW shows, maybe even become a regular in one of them. Sadly I don't see Supergirl lasting very long either and she's probably as iconic if not more than Wonder Woman and Agent Carter probably won't last long either. These are products aimed mostly at boys and there's already too much superhero stuff on TV.

[BabyTurtles]

The Justice League doesn't leave much more room for Diversity than what Bruce Timm's JL show didn't already have. The only other option is having the "JLU" scenario that JLU used as did Young Justice. Now that we're moving on from the topic of race and back to the show, I actually do think this show will have plenty of racial diversity, I think this will be a "DC Friends" show more than a proper JL show. I mean we don't know anything about the show yet but I do think it'll be like the Trapped in Time JL DTV and the two Batman Unlimited videos. I haven't seen them yet but apparently they're fairly entertaining even if not "adult".


Really hope the show does well~ (we need more awesome superhero shows again) no point in having tons of diversity if no one likes and watches the show afterall :D