Your view of a different interpretations

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Edit: Your view of what makes a good but different interpretation?

As you all know, the turtles go through multiple interpretations that differ from one another. Origin stories get altered, characterizations change, and tones vary.

You have the 1987 turtles which introduced most of us into the franchise and it is considered a product of it's time but when you look back at it, some say that it hasn't aged well and that it was only good for it's time. It changed so many aspects from the comics entirely; the tone was more lighthearted, Splinter was Hamato Yoshi, Raphael was a wise guy, etc. Yet it still has a fanbase (not just fanboys/girls who only like this version).

Then you have the 2014 movie where it also changed so many aspects such as the turtle designs, the origin story completely, and the foot being a terrorist group. Most people hated these changes while others will say that it could have been better but could have been worse.

Many aspects have change in each version such as April being a teenager and peer in the Nick series, and Shredder being an Utrom in the 4Kids version.

What do you consider a good interpretation of a franchise, not just TMNT, but other series like Batman, Superman, Spider-Man? What are some good changes and what are some bad changes? How far can you go to changing or altering something in a version? Can you guys give some examples?

Would you say that the argument "It's a different interpretation" a good excuse to defend a version?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Edit: Your view of what makes a good but different interpretation?

As you all know, the turtles go through multiple interpretations that differ from one another. Origin stories get altered, characterizations change, and tones vary.

You have the 1987 turtles which introduced most of us into the franchise and it is considered a product of it's time but when you look back at it, some say that it hasn't aged well and that it was only good for it's time. It changed so many aspects from the comics entirely; the tone was more lighthearted, Splinter was Hamato Yoshi, Raphael was a wise guy, etc. Yet it still has a fanbase (not just fanboys/girls who only like this version).

Then you have the 2014 movie where it also changed so many aspects such as the turtle designs, the origin story completely, and the foot being a terrorist group. Most people hated these changes while others will say that it could have been better but could have been worse.

Many aspects have change in each version such as April being a teenager and peer in the Nick series, and Shredder being an Utrom in the 4Kids version.

What do you consider a good interpretation of a franchise, not just TMNT, but other series like Batman, Superman, Spider-Man? What are some good changes and what are some bad changes? How far can you go to changing or altering something in a version? Can you guys give some examples?

Would you say that the argument "It's a different interpretation" a good excuse to defend a version?

For me, different interpretations and new takes have to be creative or add something exciting and new. It can't just be a "gimmick."

Venus de Milo could have been done well; interesting themes and takes on the idea that the Turtles are all alone in the universe could have been explored. But what did we get? A Mary Sue with shell boobs.

Agent Bishop and Old Hob are amazing characters in that, looking back, I'm shocked it took so long to come up with them. A TMNT version of Magneto, determined to protect mutants from mankind at any and all costs? A xenophobic government agent, driven to protect mankind from aliens at any and all costs? These are both brilliant concepts that fit in well with the TMNT universe, and the characters even evolve and grow over their series' lifetimes.

The original TMNT cartoon that we all grew up on is something of a mixed-bag for me. I view it the same way some people view their parents when they grow up. On the one hand, I resent OT TMNT for its portrayal of characters, its ridiculous nature, and its reset-button non-continuity storytelling. But at the time, I loved it. And without the '87 cartoon, 99.99% of us fans would not be fans or even know about TMNT. Plus, it gave us Bebop and Rocksteady, Krang, rainbow bandannas (shut up, haters), and ignited Turtlemania. It strayed extremely far from the Mirage roots, but without it, TMNT would not be a viable product or franchise. And we all look back on it with, if not love and fawning adoration, at least grudging respect and appreciation.

What lasting effect will Platinum Dunes TMNT have? Will it reignite Turtlemania? I very much doubt it.

So in sum, I consider the contribution and/or the legacy of different TMNT interpretations.

[Luckyday]

Venus de Milo could have been done well; interesting themes and takes on the idea that the Turtles are all alone in the universe could have been explored. But what did we get? A Mary Sue with shell boobs.



Well what you can maybe do with a female turtle in order to show visually that the turtles are all alone is to have her be surprisedly and unapologetic inhuman. Maybe not so much as a feral reptile in a sense but more like an alien like Spock, who is much very a intelligent creature in her own right, but doesn't have any human mannerism/trappings or primate instincts associated with them.

There can tons of different backstories that you could do with this character but as a concept this is how you can make it actually interesting to watch. Making Venus have the exact human upbringing as the turtles makes the concept of a female suddenly a lot less interesting to do and with nearly zero conflict in interaction.

[Powder]

I like literally every iteration but the Bay film(s).

The TMNT's ability to adjust to different changes & styles is part of their appeal, even when deviating from the norm (like Souls Winter or the anime). Part of the distinction lies in intention, however, as wild changes are far easier to digest in small doses & under no guises. It is clear that they are one-offs, parodies, or else-world featurettes, which allows them to be viewed objectively. In the case of the new film series, drastic changes have been made in both design & personality (for 2 turtles, at least) & I for one can't stomach them given they are now the new face of a live-action TMNT. It's a brand, not a "What-if" & as such leaves a blemish on the property, in my opinion. Souls Winter & Super Turtles take two controversial visual themes to the extreme, making the turtles appear either too turtle-like, or too humanoid. On a large scale, such as a film or TV series, that doesn't fly with the average fan, because middle ground must be sought for the TMNT's core essence to remain unchanged. They have to be mutant enough to be imposing, but just human enough to bring empathy out of their human cast. When you lean too much in favor of one side, they're far too freakish, & in that, the charm is lost. No matter how tough the turtles are, Mirage included, there is a cuteness to them, whether it is in their youthfulness (in part conveyed by design) or their general attitude (take 1990 Michelangelo, for example, he's got it both ways but is still a bad-ass).

2014's Michelangelo was a fan of sexual harassment & product placement. One might be able to forgive the Crush Soda agenda, in that the turtles are no stranger to Pizza Hut, Dominoes, & other such foodstuffs that they may very well have taken part in (barring the fact, yes, it's a fact, that real New Yorkers don't wanna touch that cardboard "pizza" when there's a billion legit pizzarias around any given corner), but making him this hormone driven fiend with no semblance of respect for the opposite sex, is to me, a crime against the character. Michelangelo is literally the embodiment of innocence, he always has been. He is hopefulness, kindness, happiness, he holds the team together with his smile. To cast that aside in favor making him a horny teen trope insults me beyond words, it completely sh*ts on his legacy. This is the turtle who loves cats & children, the first one to shed a tear, the love novelist. How dare they do that to him... & I say that with him being my least favorite turtle, mind you! While his comments to & about April were disturbing, so too was his overall appearance. His face falls somewhere between an ogre & uncanny valley, it's too jarring. I can't find it "cool" in the way that a tooth-gritting comic turtle is, or endearing, like that of his cartoon counterparts. I don't see the heart in his eyes as I did Jim Henson's rendition. I just feel uncomfortable, I wallow instead within a cauldron of fear & disgust. I can't identify with it, I'm too busy going "What the hell is this thing?". Then there's Donatello, whose pacifism, ingenuity, need for solitude, & confidence in battle is torn asunder in favor of an obscene stereotype of a nerd or geek, with his ridiculous glasses, method of speech, fearfulness, etc. Raph & Leo had their faults but were more or less in line with their former selves.

Another major issue I have with their characterization is again rooted both in their look & attitudes. The TMNT have always had a fascination with modern society, humans, their culture, yes. They spew television references, & soak up media like shell-backed sponges, however, they have been aware from the beginning that the human world is not their own, & they can never truly be a part of it. So they enjoy the TV & comic books, eat the junk food, hang the posters, but there the line is drawn. Their place in the world, beyond their particular kind of vigilantism, is as outcasts. They don't try to be like people anymore than personality naturally ties them to us. With that being said, these guys are the other way around. They want to wear clothes, they want to mate with/befriend human females, it feels off. It's irksome. While the turtles may feel like a square peg to a circular hole, but they accept it, they embrace it. They have their family, they have each-other, & in that, there is friendship, love, acceptance. They don't fault us for our conditioning, what would make us judge them, fear them. They've got their own situation, & that works just fine. These guys both want to be among us, & resent us all the same. It's a knock against their intelligence that they feel this way, I think. I could somewhat understand this theme with younger turtles, like Nick's, but these turtles are supposed to be on the older side of the teenage spectrum.

So there's my 2 cents.

[oldmanwinters]

That's a fine piece, Powder. You really articulated the problems with characterization (especially with Michelangleo) that I believe will make the Bay Turtles impossible to carry a film franchise very far.

This is the turtle who loves cats & children, the first one to shed a tear, the love novelist.

But remember.... even that Mikey loves cats too... or at least old internet videos of cats playing chopsticks with chopsticks.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's a fine piece, Powder. You really articulated the problems with characterization (especially with Michelangleo) that I believe will make the Bay Turtles impossible to carry a film franchise very far.



But remember.... even that Mikey loves cats too... or at least old internet videos of cats playing chopsticks with chopsticks.

Cheap comic relief enjoying cheap comic relief... the pathos, the social commentary, the metaness of it all!!!! :trolleye: