Why 'TMNT 2' Could Be Terrible Or Amazing

[Xav]

http://www.looper.com/1230/tmnt-2-terrible-amazing/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

http://www.looper.com/1230/tmnt-2-terrible-amazing/

Well written, but for all we know, they just condensed all of our arguments from the Forum. :tlol:

... We can only hope the actual movie cribs our notes, too.

[TurtleTitan97]

Betting on the former option, personally.

[Powder]

Skimmed article, saw "STEPHEN AMELL MIGHT BE THE PERFECT CASEY JONES", closed article.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Skimmed article, saw "STEPHEN AMELL MIGHT BE THE PERFECT CASEY JONES", closed article.

Good for you. :tlol: Yeah, I dropped my head onto my desk as hard as I could when I read that.

[Foombamaroom]

Lol he'll be the perfect Stephen Amell.

[MikeandRaph87]

It will not reach the nostalgic greatness of the first two films it is trying to siphon off of. Will it be terrible? I do not think so. Will parts make us roll our eyes? Definitely. Especially Megan Fox's acting. I think the characters involved will make it better than the first installment of the series. I love Batman Forever because it includes The Riddler and Dick Grayson as Robin. That being said having certain character make an automatic difference for me. How well will Bebop, Rocksteady, and Casey Jones be presented? Up in the air at the moment, but I hoping it will be positive. It will probably be a miz of terrible and amazing leaning more towards amazing.

[Leo656]

Skimmed article, saw "STEPHEN AMELL MIGHT BE THE PERFECT CASEY JONES", closed article.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/33536608.jpg
Two in a row, but it deserves it. :tlol::tlol::tlol:

But yeah, I don't hate the guy at all, just the idea of him as Casey Jones. Especially with how little effort they're putting into it.

[Powder]

I don't know his work at all, but based on what I've seen/read of this version of the character itself, I know that won't be true.

[Xiewin]

It's going to be terrible.

[IndigoErth]

I wish it would be better. At least moderately. (Come on, the bar isn't all that high, you can do it!) Do wishes come true though... lol not usually for me though, sorry, prob just jinxed it.

Think I've just about decided that these films are not TMNT's [version of the real] world, rather it's what happens when they actually land in ours and encounter cosplayers of their friends and enemies. (Now I kind of what it to actually play out that way. lol)

[Commenter 42]

I don't know his work at all, but based on what I've seen/read of this version of the character itself, I know that won't be true.

He's worse than Megan Fox.

But don't take it from me:

i6Il9y9PwVY

This is one of his better clips...but try and make it through an episode of Arrow, and see for yourself. He's about par with the dudes on RAW.

[letscook89]

Oh my god Amell plays worst than I thought. I don't like his face, his acting and I think he won't be a good casey jones. He doesn't even know who casey jones is...

[Skinrash]

Are they using the same designs from the first film? If the TMNT still look like Quasimodo and Shrek hybrids, then that's another reason it might be terrible.

[Foombamaroom]

I don't think he's that bad of an actor, given that they wrote Oliver to be dark like Batman in the show.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I love Batman Forever because it includes The Riddler and Dick Grayson as Robin. That being said having certain character make an automatic difference for me. How well will Bebop, Rocksteady, and Casey Jones be presented? Up in the air at the moment, but I hoping it will be positive. It will probably be a miz of terrible and amazing leaning more towards amazing.

You don't hear a lot of people say that often.

I stopped reading this article when they say the words "comedy" and "kids movie". These writers simply don't know much about this property. Yet the movie industry can take a guy who dresses up like a bat seriously.:trolleye:

[Bry]

Skimmed article, saw "STEPHEN AMELL MIGHT BE THE PERFECT CASEY JONES", closed article.
But yeah, I don't hate the guy at all, just the idea of him as Casey Jones. Especially with how little effort they're putting into it.

Don't you see?? In "Arrow" his jacket hoodie is dark green, but in this movie it's dark blue. That's a totally different colour! He's gonna be the best Casey ever!!

He's worse than Megan Fox.

But don't take it from me:

i6Il9y9PwVY

This is one of his better clips...but try and make it through an episode of Arrow, and see for yourself. He's about par with the dudes on RAW.

Oh man... I've only seen a few episodes of "Arrow", but it felt a lot like the supporting cast did a lot of the heavy-lifting around him acting-wise to make things work. And yeah, he was like a plank of wood playing off of Grant Gustin here.

I don't know enough of his work to dismiss him outright, that wouldn't be fair. But if this is what he'll be bringing to Casey... yeah, no, no thanks.

I can appreciate his commitment to the physicality of his roles, but... that's what stunt-people are for.

[massakre]

im looking forward to it personally... i enjoyed the 2014 movie for what it was. it was a different take, and far outside of what we're used to, but it was entertaining for me and my fam.

[aliena]

None of that gave me any confidence. Are they going with a comedy feel this time? I hate it when they go comedic. And why is there a girlfriend for Vern? What purpose can that possibly serve but to fill time up away from the turtles. I am hopeful of the new Shredder and Karai though. I also can't wait to see their version of Bebop and Rocksteady even if they go the comedy route.

[aliena]

Don't you see?? In "Arrow" his jacket hoodie is dark green, but in this movie it's dark blue. That's a totally different colour! He's gonna be the best Casey ever!!



Oh man... I've only seen a few episodes of "Arrow", but it felt a lot like the supporting cast did a lot of the heavy-lifting around him acting-wise to make things work. And yeah, he was like a plank of wood playing off of Grant Gustin here.

I don't know enough of his work to dismiss him outright, that wouldn't be fair. But if this is what he'll be bringing to Casey... yeah, no, no thanks.

I can appreciate his commitment to the physicality of his roles, but... that's what stunt-people are for.

Oh God, I hope he doesn't act like that, how horrible, he's like Megan Fox, but worse. Ugh, why do they have to do this? At least we have the original Casey to go back to.

[Commenter 42]

Oh God, I hope he doesn't act like that, how horrible, he's like Megan Fox, but worse. Ugh, why do they have to do this? At least we have the original Casey to go back to.

Yes, he will "act" like that - because that's how he acts. Google him - watch any clip, or better yet, check him out on RAW. It's all on youtube.

I've heard he is a nice guy, really friendly, give you the shirt off his back kind of guy, but I don't really care how nice he is if he can't do Jones justice.

He doesn't look the part, and he can't act the part. I'm lost as to why he was cast.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yes, he will "act" like that - because that's how he acts. Google him - watch any clip, or better yet, check him out on RAW. It's all on youtube.

I've heard he is a nice guy, really friendly, give you the shirt off his back kind of guy, but I don't really care how nice he is if he can't do Jones justice.

He doesn't look the part, and he can't act the part. I'm lost as to why he was cast.

He's a great guy, and he was pretty good in Arrow Season 1 and 2. (And Arrow Season 3 had far worse issues than his acting.)

But he's absolutely wrong for Jones. Just another bizarre decision by PD. Although I suppose the casting director realized "hey we need someone to play a vigilante... why not the guy already playing a vigilante?"

[TurtleTitan97]

He's a great guy, and he was pretty good in Arrow Season 1 and 2. (And Arrow Season 3 had far worse issues than his acting.)

But he's absolutely wrong for Jones. Just another bizarre decision by PD. Although I suppose the casting director realized "hey we need someone to play a vigilante... why not the guy already playing a vigilante?"

^This x 1000

[Bry]

He doesn't look the part, and he can't act the part. I'm lost as to why he was cast.

Same reason Megan Fox, William Fichtner, Johnny Knoxville, Danny Woodburn and Tony Shalhoub were cast. The producers don't know or care what best suits the characters or the story. It's all about what "group" they're trying to appeal to (instead of appealing to TMNT fans on any level), who's readily available and affordable, and likely who's under studio contract and/or has an agent they're friendly with.

[Candy Kappa]

Danny's Splinter voice was far superior compared to Tony's. The movie was utter garbage, but it leaves a extra bad taste with the way they treated him.

[Powder]

Agreed. His voicing of the character for that one video game was amazing. He'd have been the best actor in the damn film...

[Bry]

How Platinum Dunes treated him was absolutely shameful, but... I dunno, he just seems like a very odd choice to me. Full respect to him as an actor, I've always liked him, but he's just pretty far from what I'd consider an ideal Splinter (and the same goes for Shalhoub).

Though I've only managed to hear a few words spoken from that 3DS game... Anyone have a better sample?

[Mew]

I hope it's good.

[Leo656]

Zero chance.

[Metalwolf]

I stopped reading this article when they say the words "comedy" and "kids movie". These writers simply don't know much about this property. Yet the movie industry can take a guy who dresses up like a bat seriously.:trolleye:Well, that's all anyone ever considers the TMNT franchise as anymore, even a third of the fans defend the term 'for kids' whenever it comes to this stuff. Somebody could do a more mature and serious TMNT, but good luck getting that permission from uber kid-friendly Nick for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Batman never ended up getting 'type-casted' the way TMNT did by any one version, which is why you can get iterations for all ages of him. While the 80's version might have made the TMNT famous, it also damned them to a 'kid-friendly' existence that persists until someone grows a pair and goes against the current established 80's tropes trend. Until then, it's always going to be a sanitized 'kid-friendly' version of the old comics.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Zero chance.

Look at you, you freaking optimist. I give it negative or imaginary numbers, personally.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well, that's all anyone ever considers the TMNT franchise as anymore, even a third of the fans defend the term 'for kids' whenever it comes to this stuff. Somebody could do a more mature and serious TMNT, but good luck getting that permission from uber kid-friendly Nick for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Batman never ended up getting 'type-casted' the way TMNT did by any one version, which is why you can get iterations for all ages of him. While the 80's version might have made the TMNT famous, it also damned them to a 'kid-friendly' existence that persists until someone grows a pair and goes against the current established 80's tropes trend. Until then, it's always going to be a sanitized 'kid-friendly' version of the old comics.

Well, I did read that Batman was type-casted during the 60s because of the Adam West series until Frank Miller and Tim Burton stepped in. I just rather see merchandise of TMNT that isn't based on the freakin' Fred Wolf cartoon. That series should NOT be the poster-child of the property. I'm thankful that there's merchandise for the Nick toon and unfortunately even to a lesser extent, the PD film. I'd just like to see some comic book art styled merchandise based on either Mirage/4Kids/IDW, anything other than Fred Wolf. Viacom's marketing is just questionable.

[Bry]

Well, that's all anyone ever considers the TMNT franchise as anymore, even a third of the fans defend the term 'for kids' whenever it comes to this stuff. Somebody could do a more mature and serious TMNT, but good luck getting that permission from uber kid-friendly Nick for the foreseeable future.

And yet the Nickelodeon cartoon isn't afraid to go to some surprisingly dark and mature places in its storytelling. At times even more twisted than the main plot of the Mirage comics (though doing so within PG-rating guidelines). The Saki/Yoshi feud is at its most messed-up there, and they don't exactly pull their punches when the story calls for it.

It's very possible to appeal to kids and adults equally. That takes a lot of care and skill in writing and producing, though. Not exactly Platinum Dunes' strong suit. (I'm pretty sure their "strong suit" begins and ends at framing the camera on women's asses.)

[Foombamaroom]

The Transformers movies don't appeal to kids too much, besides the robots fighting.

Marvel movies don't appeal to kids, kids just like superheroes in general. Marvel's doing it for the fanboys (And that money, son.).

They have absolutely NO EXCUSE for not making a more mature version of TMNT.

[Krutch]

So I'm still in the minority thinking Amell will be fine as Casey then? Alright, just checking.

It probably comes from a place where I've already written off this incarnation of the Turtles, and the news of his casting seemed like the least offensive announcement I heard. I was mostly bummed about not giving him a wig, but ah well. Dems da berries.

[IndigoErth]

I'm mostly withholding opinion on Amell for now, I know pretty much nothing about him. Now the size of the mask on the other hand...:tlol:

[Commenter 42]

I'm mostly withholding opinion on Amell for now, I know pretty much nothing about him. Now the size of the mask on the other hand...:tlol:

Watch this clip. (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1504240&postcount=12)

No mystery. It will be terrible.

[Metalwolf]

Well, I did read that Batman was type-casted during the 60s because of the Adam West series until Frank Miller and Tim Burton stepped in. I just rather see merchandise of TMNT that isn't based on the freakin' Fred Wolf cartoon. That series should NOT be the poster-child of the property. I'm thankful that there's merchandise for the Nick toon and unfortunately even to a lesser extent, the PD film. I'd just like to see some comic book art styled merchandise based on either Mirage/4Kids/IDW, anything other than Fred Wolf. Viacom's marketing is just questionable.Well that's because those two stepped in and put a stop to it. We don't see any similar thing going on with TMNT, mostly because there is nobody to step in. I'm glad there is merchandise too, but also everything is still somewhat heavily influenced by Fred Wolf, so much so that people complained (like Cubed) that the PD Turtles had nostrils. I don't mind a new iteration borrowing stuff that looks like it might make sense in some context (like human Splinter) but Fred Wolf still has a hold on new iterations to the degree that few other iterations have.

And yet the Nickelodeon cartoon isn't afraid to go to some surprisingly dark and mature places in its storytelling. At times even more twisted than the main plot of the Mirage comics (though doing so within PG-rating guidelines). The Saki/Yoshi feud is at its most messed-up there, and they don't exactly pull their punches when the story calls for it.

It's very possible to appeal to kids and adults equally. That takes a lot of care and skill in writing and producing, though. Not exactly Platinum Dunes' strong suit. (I'm pretty sure their "strong suit" begins and ends at framing the camera on women's asses.)They go 'dark,' but they rarely show the characters getting affected by it and learning in a way that builds them and lasts. 'Dark' isn't just booga booga scary stuff, it's showing stuff that makes you think and ask deep questions and the consequences of it too and this show doesn't often do that in a way that really resonates with adults. Remember all of the complaining that goes on because so little development sticks in the way that matters? Little kids might not care, but it does matter with adults. They are pretty much writing for a group (kids) that currently has the attention span of a goldfish, and the it never lets the story 'go there' because they want kids to tune in the most (and parents not to complain.)

And really, why does it automatically have to be friendly to both kids and adults? Kids are already catered to enough, to the point it's widely considered by society that they are spoiled and becoming narcissistic (because so many, especially overly involved parents, focuses all of the attention on them, and considers their wants to be highest priority over adults.) What is needed is a TMNT that caters exclusively to adults, and even if it doesn't have tons of bloodshed or high body count, still does things that matter, like having development stick and being willing to show things that makes you think. It won't hurt the kiddies for once if they're excluded, not everything has to be for them.

The Transformers movies don't appeal to kids too much, besides the robots fighting.

Marvel movies don't appeal to kids, kids just like superheroes in general. Marvel's doing it for the fanboys (And that money, son.).

They have absolutely NO EXCUSE for not making a more mature version of TMNT.Well, they tried marketing the Transformer movie to kids at first, until it proved to be too 'Bay' (especially the second movie.) The problem is, everything that has some fantastical element in it is marketed to kids, because of the toy element. We could get a TMNT that is mature, but the problem is that TMNT is heavily wedded to toys and even some of the fans on here defend that.

The only way to have a mature TMNT, is if they just went ahead and did one, and weren't afraid to weather the complaining from parents and didn't tie so much of their profit to kiddies buying toys. But they have to be brave to try it, and right now they are to chicken to do so. Even though Nick could do it on their Nick at Nite programming when most kiddies would be already in bed.

[Luckyday]

As weird as this might sounds and probably going to get me screamed at by fanboys, is that another general assumption is that the ninja turtles are superheroes and they could be superheroes, because that is what the public wants unless really good advertisement and marketing tells them otherwise, but again the problem with that mindset of thinking them as superheroes is that it forces the storyline and the characters to be very black and white with sometimes a gritty edge thrown in for the teenagers.

And again it is possible to have morally gray superheroes, although it seems that Marvel movies has a sole monopoly on that, but not many superheroes are well know or even popular other then Batman. How many kids know Constantine? How many kids know Flash, Superman or any superhero that had appeared on an DC animated show that was meant for kids?....I rest my case.

If we want a serious tmnt movie then you'll have to find the right director who is willingly to not look at this as a superhero movie but as an epic ninja war movie that has a hard science fiction angle on transhumanism.

Fat chance at that ever happening now thanks to Josh Trank's Fantastic Four.:tconfuse:

[Technogeek29]

Iduuno Constantine you got me, heck I be happy the get a Martian Manhunter movie at this point. But Flash and Supe's are pretty popular as are Wonder Woman and Green Lantern (fat chance we get another movie soon) I'd be happy to see Captain Marvel or Etrigan.

[IndigoErth]

If we want a serious tmnt movie then you'll have to find the right director who is willingly to not look at this as a superhero movie but as an epic ninja war movie that has a hard science fiction angle on transhumanism.
Agree, that would be very nice.

The superhero/comic movie trend is so popular with the film industry right now, doubting that some film makers can even see past the prototypical hero story formula. :ohwell: Maybe they're heroes, but they're different, they're supposed to be different, it's great that they're different, and their films should be different. Not adding "super" onto "hero" is no less heroic or special; if anything the lack of "super" in them makes them more special because they, unlike characters with powers, work so hard for what they're capable of.

Part of their relateability should be in the fact that they don't have powers and beyond what makes them different on the outside, they're just fellow, non-superpowered mortal beings trying to live their lives the best they can with the hand they've been dealt and quietly find their place where they are able to be an asset to the community/world they quietly live as a part of.

[Leo656]

There's a huge disconnect there, though, in that while there's a lot of potential for "mature" storytelling concepts in TMNT that would and do appeal more to an older audience, visually, TMNT lends itself to "typical comic book super-heroes" and other juvenilia almost too easily. I mean, pretend you know nothing at all about TMNT from a story perspective, and you just saw pictures of the characters; you'd immediately think it was just a standard-fare kids' super-hero cartoon/comic book type of thing. The characters are all so absurd-looking and the scenarios so colorful and over-the-top, an unknowing observer could be forgiven for offhandedly dismissing TMNT as "silly kids stuff" if they haven't actually taken the time to learn anything about it. Plus, it really is just a plain goofy concept all around. You can take someone who didn't get into it as a kid, and try and convince them it "deserves" a serious treatment, but if they didn't grow up with it, to them it's just "those pizza-munching turtles and their rat, doing karate or whatever." It's like the single most impossible thing to try and convince someone to take seriously.

That's why, I think, it's so easy for people who handle the franchise to try and keep TMNT as more of a kids property than a more "mature" or even "for everybody" property. You don't have to try and "sell" kids on TMNT; you just kind of have to put it in front of them and they'll get into it. It's got pretty much everything kids like, after all. Adults, though, you have to try and get them to suspend disbelief more, justify the scenarios and situations, and really make them forget that they're essentially supposed to take the trials and tribulations of a bunch of Muppets seriously, and if they didn't grow up with it, most can't do it. They can't get past how "goofy" the whole thing is long enough to fully appreciate the potential for more serious and dramatic storytelling.

So here's the problem: You really have to grow up with TMNT to even be able to take it as seriously as most of us here do. You have to discover it as a child and grow up with it already being important to you, which in turn means, there forever has to be a huge focus on reintroducing the TMNT brand to the next generation of kids, who will ideally grow up to be the next generation of "mature fans" as well. But then a lot of kids who like it aren't still huge fans later as adults, they move on to other things, so the amount of older people who still care enough to fight for a Mirage movie or even just a "more mature" or "more adult" TMNT movie becomes a disparate minority. So in turn, the studios and the marketing people have little recourse but to fall back on the proven fanbase: Kids who love TMNT because it's silly, goofy, and funny, not because of its themes, its social commentary, or its poignant observations on how "life at best is bittersweet". What choice do they have, really? TMNT is on its face, fairly absurd. You can hardly blame the handlers for eternally catering to the demographic most likely to "Get It." Even if that sadly undercuts the potential of what "It" can really be, if handled competently.

Ideally, TMNT would exist like Superman and Batman usually do, with a few similar, parallel but still different interpretations running simultaneously and each appealing to a different demographic of "fan". It's like they're trying to do that now, kind of, except not really, especially since the current movie franchise, which should really be the "more mature" version of TMNT to contrast the cartoon show and give older fans their piece of the pie, is an abomination in the eyes of about 90% of those same fans it's supposed to be catering to, which is friggin' bizarre. So you're always gonna have this scenario where they TRY and have a TMNT product for every audience but it all inevitably gets reset back to being a children's program. And I'm convinced it all comes down to the belief that you "can't sell" TMNT to adults as easily as you can to kids, due to how outwardly silly the entire concept is. Which I understand (and to a certain point even agree), but it sells both the property and its older fans short all the same.

Yeah. Complicated.

[Coola Yagami]

There's a huge disconnect there, though, in that while there's a lot of potential for "mature" storytelling concepts in TMNT that would and do appeal more to an older audience, visually, TMNT lends itself to "typical comic book super-heroes" and other juvenilia almost too easily. I mean, pretend you know nothing at all about TMNT from a story perspective, and you just saw pictures of the characters; you'd immediately think it was just a standard-fare kids' super-hero cartoon/comic book type of thing. The characters are all so absurd-looking and the scenarios so colorful and over-the-top, an unknowing observer could be forgiven for offhandedly dismissing TMNT as "silly kids stuff" if they haven't actually taken the time to learn anything about it. Plus, it really is just a plain goofy concept all around. You can take someone who didn't get into it as a kid, and try and convince them it "deserves" a serious treatment, but if they didn't grow up with it, to them it's just "those pizza-munching turtles and their rat, doing karate or whatever." It's like the single most impossible thing to try and convince someone to take seriously.

That's why, I think, it's so easy for people who handle the franchise to try and keep TMNT as more of a kids property than a more "mature" or even "for everybody" property. You don't have to try and "sell" kids on TMNT; you just kind of have to put it in front of them and they'll get into it. It's got pretty much everything kids like, after all. Adults, though, you have to try and get them to suspend disbelief more, justify the scenarios and situations, and really make them forget that they're essentially supposed to take the trials and tribulations of a bunch of Muppets seriously, and if they didn't grow up with it, most can't do it. They can't get past how "goofy" the whole thing is long enough to fully appreciate the potential for more serious and dramatic storytelling.

So here's the problem: You really have to grow up with TMNT to even be able to take it as seriously as most of us here do. You have to discover it as a child and grow up with it already being important to you, which in turn means, there forever has to be a huge focus on reintroducing the TMNT brand to the next generation of kids, who will ideally grow up to be the next generation of "mature fans" as well. But then a lot of kids who like it aren't still huge fans later as adults, they move on to other things, so the amount of older people who still care enough to fight for a Mirage movie or even just a "more mature" or "more adult" TMNT movie becomes a disparate minority. So in turn, the studios and the marketing people have little recourse but to fall back on the proven fanbase: Kids who love TMNT because it's silly, goofy, and funny, not because of its themes, its social commentary, or its poignant observations on how "life at best is bittersweet". What choice do they have, really? TMNT is on its face, fairly absurd. You can hardly blame the handlers for eternally catering to the demographic most likely to "Get It." Even if that sadly undercuts the potential of what "It" can really be, if handled competently.

Ideally, TMNT would exist like Superman and Batman usually do, with a few similar, parallel but still different interpretations running simultaneously and each appealing to a different demographic of "fan". It's like they're trying to do that now, kind of, except not really, especially since the current movie franchise, which should really be the "more mature" version of TMNT to contrast the cartoon show and give older fans their piece of the pie, is an abomination in the eyes of about 90% of those same fans it's supposed to be catering to, which is friggin' bizarre. So you're always gonna have this scenario where they TRY and have a TMNT product for every audience but it all inevitably gets reset back to being a children's program. And I'm convinced it all comes down to the belief that you "can't sell" TMNT to adults as easily as you can to kids, due to how outwardly silly the entire concept is. Which I understand (and to a certain point even agree), but it sells both the property and its older fans short all the same.

Yeah. Complicated.

You have a good point. The whole rivalry between Yoshi and Saki really have nothing to do with the main heroes being talking turtles and rats. The story involves a lot of bloodshed, serious themes and every fight against the Foot can be their last. They beat Leo within an inch of his life, Leo beheaded Shredder, and without him in control, the Foot tore the city apart with lots of lives lost, with the turtles feeling responsible.

All of that could have been taken loads more seriously if they were just regular ninjas and not.... talking turtles.

It's kinda hard for most people that never grew up on it to take basically, talking cartoon turtles and rats seriously, no matter how serious the villains and stories were. I know for Eastman and Laird that was kind of the joke, but it does't carry over to well on film.

[Leo656]

The flip side is, take away the talking turtles and it's just a generic revenge-based martial arts story. Nobody'd still be talking about it now.

I mean, look at Ronin by Frank Miller. Supposedly, it was a big influence on the creation of TMNT. It's a highly-regarded work. You'd have to work to actually find someone who's familiar with it, though, while everyone everywhere at least has some awareness of TMNT.

So it goes both ways. The story and the concepts of TMNT would definitely be taken more seriously without all the sci-fi trappings and "weirdness" and stuff that appeals to kids, but without all that stuff, it'd be utterly generic and never would have caught on like it has.

It's just that it takes a supremely delicate hand to create the perfect balance for this kind of thing.

[Metalwolf]

I'm thinking that maybe it would be better if it tried the example done in Star Wars. Awesome scenes and story, but also not tying in scenes of gore, swearing or sexualized nudity.

It could easily be for all ages that way, without dumbing it down so adults can't enjoy or making it too intense for the kiddies. I think what my main complaint always was with the TMNT owners present is that they thought making the TMNT more serious for the grownups was too hard so they didn't bother, confining TMNT to the kiddy age target ghetto and not having it try to attempt to be for all ages like Batman. Batman is just as weird and cornball when he runs around with the Bat-sidekicks (like Robin) and Bat-themed gadgets and names, but they've still managed to make him darkly scary at times even after the period when he had once been kinda typecast as the campy Adam West.

So much possibility and it's just so aggravating.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

It is aggravating indeed. What are the chances that the TMNT/Batman comic will get readers to see the TMNT in a different light?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It is aggravating indeed. What are the chances that the TMNT/Batman comic will get readers to see the TMNT in a different light?

Depends on the portrayals.

The Batman comics aren't afraid of blood or grittiness (Joker cutting his own damn face off, Alfred getting a hand cut off, etc), and the Turtles traditionally have been pretty brutal at times, too...

All depends on how the DC writers portray the Turtles' combat. Here's hoping.

[Galactus]

There's nothing wrong with a TMNT movie being treated like the ones from the super hero genre. While they are not super heroes or even strictly speaking crime fighters it's undeniable that is heavy influence on them and aspects of their mythos strongly lend themselves to it.

Taking what works for other comic book and similar genre movies when they are at their peak and applying it to turtles sounds like a solid approach. The problem is TMNT '14 didn't really do that so much as blatantly copy scenes and story elements from them. Heck even doing that isn't necessarily such a bad thing. What was needed is someone who knows and gets the franchise to see how TMNT could fit into these settings but they didn't have that. Remember early on the makers of the movie more than once said they were going for a mix of the Dark Knight and the Marvel movies? Sounds great, doesn't it? That's kinda what we got (with everything from Amazing Spider-Man to Rise of the Planet of the Apes mixed in) but they didn't know which elements to play which way hence the huge mess.

Prior to the movies release I'd disagree that TMNT would always be treated as kids stuff in regards to movies after all for all our issues with what they were doing in terms of story and source fidelity etc they never seemed they were going for a kids movie tone. For a year Liebesman and the various actors tried hard to sell us on this movie being darker, and the characters and story would have more depth than previous iterations. I actually don't think they were lying about their intentions but then late on (around the time of those re-shoots because Bay thought the movie was too "mature") Liebesman stopped trying to sell us on this. Even then I don't think think they were aiming for this to be squarely a kids movie that's just a convenient tag that's been retroactively attached to it as some form of excuse for how bad it was.

Similarly prior to the movie I don't believe that even the general public would be so quick to write TMNT off as just kids stuff. After all we're in the age of the comic book movie were ideas that seem silly on the surface have been made to work for a mass audience. I mean a week before TMNT released you had people of all ages enjoying a movie about a talking tree and raccoon. I know people that weren't fans of TMNT because they were either too old or too young when it was big to really "get" it but were nonetheless interested or at least curious about it because it looked (on the surface) that they were giving TMNT the same treatment as other comic book properties. Obviously they didn't view the movie as a huge slap in the face as I did but likewise getting them to see the sequel will be harder as it reinforced in their heads that it's just kids stuff.

[BubblyShell22]

Very good points, and I agree as well. I really don't think this movie is going to be good not only because you have the same writers, but Michael Bay is still producing it, so I feel it'll be more of the same as it was last time. And we even have a Casey Jones who isn't really Casey Jones. For people who may not have seen TMNT before, they won't care, but for those of us who know the character and how he is, this is a big insult to us because they're pretty much not putting any effort into the character or making the actor even remotely look like Casey Jones should look. So, yeah, not looking forward to this one. I'm sure my sister's stepsons will see it because they liked the first one and are trying to get me into it. Not a chance in hell, boys!

[Commenter 42]

... juvenilia ...

A new 10$ word for me. :lol:

Thanks.

[BubblyShell22]

At first when I read that, I thought he said genitalia. Then I read it again and was like, "Oh, that's what he meant."

[Editor's Note Comics]

Depends on the portrayals.

The Batman comics aren't afraid of blood or grittiness (Joker cutting his own damn face off, Alfred getting a hand cut off, etc), and the Turtles traditionally have been pretty brutal at times, too...

All depends on how the DC writers portray the Turtles' combat. Here's hoping.

I'd like to see the action in the crossover be about being stealthy. Treat it like all the character's want to prove they are the better ninja.

I'm also hoping the Turtles aren't too dark in the story. I think it would be a better having contrasting personalities instead of everyone just moping around.