Do you think Splinter should be revived?

[victory_angel]

With the 3rd season finale, Splinter meets his demise at the Shredder's hands. This is a very emotional moment both for the characters themselves and for the viewers.

We can safely assume that the Turtles will go back in time and stop the Earth from being destroyed. But yet there is the question will Splinter be able to be brought back.

I mean we have seen Splinter cheat death once before during the second invasion while the Turtles for the most part we left assuming they were orphans for however many months they were living at the farm house. And yes one can argumentatively say that the events of Tale of the Yokai were also Splinter cheating death a second time.

And yet even if everything is rewound to x number of months before the Triceraton invasion, would having Splinter survive cheapen the impact that his death had the first time?

In earlier pitches of the show, the series was supposed to begin with Splinter's passing and thus having the Turtle's able to rely on memories of him for guidance. But that idea was scrapped because essentially, wherever Splinter is that is home.

However the Turtle's themselves are technically 17-18 years of age. And that is generally a time when young adults begin to look towards their futures and begin asserting themselves in the world around them.

While I personally don't like the idea of Splinter being killed off, simply because while the Turtles don't need him as a teacher quite as much as they may have when they were genin. They still need him as a father figure in their lives. But at the same time, in order for them to move forward they also need to experience that both Victory and Defeat can come with a heavy price.

What do you guys think?

[Coola Yagami]

Of course he will... or rather.. he never really died since they'll rewind everything and bring Earth back.

[Candy Kappa]

April's psychic scream after Splinter's fatal wound is most likely the anchor point for the Turtles to travel back and stop the black hole device, and then they also bring some healing potion or a Phoenix Down to save Splinter. Bing bada boom.

[TurtleTitan97]

Splinter is definitely coming back, no argument there.

[SKX31]

On the fence - depending on how it's handled. However, I'm leaning on "No".

I'm hoping that the Turtles have to work for it all - and are not handed it on a silver platter. Given that it's 13 episodes, it's likely. The payoff should also be real and heartwarming - otherwise the aftermath (both Mikey crying over Splinter's body and their shock over the Earth's destruction) won't feel impactful in the end.

The reason I'm leaning on "No" is despite some jarring inconsisties, he's been a solid Splinter and him remaining dead would negatively impact the show - given the track record. Hoon Lee's performance also helps a lot.

[victory_angel]

The reason I'm leaning on "Yes" is despite some jarring inconsisties, he's been a solid Splinter and him remaining dead would negatively impact the show. Hoon Lee's performance also helps a lot.

Though I wasn't meaning that Splinter would remain dead despite the fact the Turtles have done everything to prevent the distruction of the world. I was meaning "Yes" in a manner that suggest despite their efforts to save the world, Splinter is still lost regardless. So Splinter being brought back only to die a second time and this time there is no mulligan where they conveniently go back in time to stop Splinter's death.

[STORMSHADOW__210]

It was a great death and great writing . That said , no way the series moves on with no splinter. He is just as much "tmnt" as the turtles themselves

[victory_angel]

It was a great death and great writing . That said , no way the series moves on with no splinter. He is just as much "tmnt" as the turtles themselves

Splinter would still be there...he just wouldn't be a physical presence in their lives. Splinter could still appear in flashbacks, or visions while the Turtles are asleep or meditating.

[CyberCubed]

Everyone who died will be brought back to life.

[Zulithe]

I love Splinter so I really hope he does... but I also like when we get permament changes in shows like this that totally flip things to keep it fresh. I don't like things being reset so easily. But again... I love Splinter so I would rather they just bring him back... but they need to do it in a way that has meaning. The turtles have to work for it. I don't want it to be too easy or his death/rebirth won't have any impact.

Even with Nick TMNT clearly being a kids show and I understand why they didn't dwell on Splinter's death for too long... I still feel like they rushed through it in the finale and pushed the turtles on to the next moment... I really, really hope that the season opener shows the impact of his death more.

[Ninjinister]

I don't get the second answer. His death in the finally what?

[victory_angel]

I don't get the second answer. His death in the finally what?

Essentially its it means that bringing Splinter back to life and keeping him alive past the point of the Triceraton invasion, could cheapen the impact of his death in the finale.

[evan2000]

Essentially its it means that bringing Splinter back to life and keeping him alive past the point of the Triceraton invasion, could cheapen the impact of his death in the finally.

He is mocking you for spelling finale as finally :roll:

[victory_angel]

He is mocking you for spelling finale as finally :roll:

Sorry, about that. Misspellings are part of my dyslexia. Too bad I can't go back and edit polls.

[evan2000]

Sorry, about that. Misspellings are part of my dyslexia. Too bad I can't go back and edit polls.

No problem. Just be on the look out whenever Ninjinister posts something out of the blue. It's... his thing :P

[neatoman]

The answer is yes, Splinter will come back to life. We've known for a while that the clock will be turned back so they can save the earth and the only reason they had Shredder kill Splinter, was that it was meaningless.

I mean let's face it, they only did it because Splinter was going to die anyway regardless of what Shredder did, the destruction of a planet tends to do that. Splinter death has no real meaning, it was there for pseudo-drama.

[Ceres]

Splinter should stay dead in my opinion but seeing as it's a kids cartoon this is probably too inappropiate and so they will let him life again.

[ssjup81]

I guess I'm slightly on the fence, but leaning more towards leaving him dead. I wouldn't mind it if they're able to stop the planet's destruction, but still unable to save Splinter because that's how it was meant to be...like Tang Shen's fate, Yoshi surviving the fire, and Saki getting Miwa. I'd like to see the Turtles trying to cope with that.

If hey keep him dead, maybe have them do flashback scenes.

Now, do I see this fully happening...no, not really because it is a Nick show...

[victory_angel]

I guess I'm slightly on the fence, but leaning more towards leaving him dead. I wouldn't mind it if they're able to stop the planet's destruction, but still unable to save Splinter because that's how it was meant to be...like Tang Shen's fate, Yoshi surviving the fire, and Saki getting Miwa. I'd like to see the Turtles trying to cope with that.

If hey keep him dead, maybe have them do flashback scenes.

Now, do I see this fully happening...no, not really because it is a Nick show...

Who knows....

Splinter's death was dramatic even for a kids show. So far defeat has happened twice for the Turtles and both times it has come with a heavy price.

The Turtles also need to experience that victory can also come with a heavy price.

[IndigoErth]

Should he... eh, probably, long after it's old news. This show likes it's tragedy and reunion cycle. To be honest I'm having a hard time even taking his death too much to heart (though still very sad nonetheless) since I feel like it's just a given that he'll be back somehow, along with the Earth itself. Would not surprise me if the Utroms save him like the last series.

The Turtles are still young, even if pretty capable, they still need dad there sometimes. :ohwell:

[GoldMutant]

Not gonna criticize the spelling if it's a medical issue. :)

Now, I'm kinda indifferent on keeping Splinter, mostly because of the previous tragedies and how they are handled. If they were able to keep him dead, I'd be impressed on character growth being on Nick of all things show wise. However, then you risk running a repeat of the previous two tragedies.

1. Mutagen Man: By this point, there's no way this is going to be finished. Roger is clearly busy in other roles, especially because a sequel to that dreadful Sonic Boom will result in him back to Sonic plus the show. :roll: Other than the guilt of Donatello in MM Unleashed and the Invasion, no build for this tragedy occurs. We can throw theories around, but the fact is this character is now practically worthless.

2. Karai: Though MM I can be fine with, this is the main reason why it's going to be cheapened with Splinter. Ever since Karai got mutated back at the end of the second season, there's been very little emotion and development by anyone. Instead, it's just a constant back and forth tug of war of "what side will Karai be on?" Like I've said before, it feels like beating a dead horse and making her just a shallow character that drives the plot rather than intriguing. Though the two part Bebop and Rocksteady episode drives some emotion before the eventual capture and Fourfold Trap being a solid showdown of father and daughter, it feels extremely uneventful.

If Splinter does remain dead, it needs a serious impact to change the show. Knowing how the show deals with tragedies, it feels predictable Splinter is going to be revived somehow and this whole thing will just be another reason to shock the crowd. No reason behind it, as long as there's emotion and shock value to show they're serious, the fans will buy into it. As much as I like this version of Splinter a lot, if he gets revived, my stance won't budge. Either keep him dead and actually build off it or revive him for no good reason other than to shock everyone.

[Meliwen]

I guess I'm slightly on the fence, but leaning more towards leaving him dead. I wouldn't mind it if they're able to stop the planet's destruction, but still unable to save Splinter because that's how it was meant to be...like Tang Shen's fate, Yoshi surviving the fire, and Saki getting Miwa. I'd like to see the Turtles trying to cope with that.

If hey keep him dead, maybe have them do flashback scenes.

Now, do I see this fully happening...no, not really because it is a Nick show...
Agree. I'm fine either way (if I had to choose I'd say keep him dead), but keeping Splinter dead seems like it could open up more possibilities for the turtles to grow and move on, or at least we'll have a different direction for the show to take. It can cover new ground, like with what GoldMutant's saying.

If Splinter stays, it'll still be cool because Nick Splinter is pretty awesome, and then the show can continue his own character journey with Karai and Shredder, which would be nice to finish.

Both avenues have chances to add to the show or complete what we've seen, provided dead Splinter actually results in proper growth for the turtles and alive Splinter provides some closure for his character, with Karai especially.

[victory_angel]

If Splinter does remain dead, it needs a serious impact to change the show. Knowing how the show deals with tragedies, it feels predictable Splinter is going to be revived somehow and this whole thing will just be another reason to shock the crowd. No reason behind it, as long as there's emotion and shock value to show they're serious, the fans will buy into it. As much as I like this version of Splinter a lot, if he gets revived, my stance won't budge. Either keep him dead and actually build off it or revive him for no good reason other than to shock everyone.

Though having Splinter be lost despite saving the world could open up new avenues for the Turtles and Karai.

Assuming having Karai is still brainwashed by Shredder but she's at a mentality where everyone is the enemy. She could seek to capture and torture the Turtles, April, and Casey in an attempt to get Splinter again.

Only this time instead of telling her she's mind controlled the Turtles will have to tell her that Splinter is deceased. Due to the brain worms in her head, she is going insist they are lying and trying to protect him.

However Shredder can confirm that Splinter died as his hand which would cause Karai to fly into an emotional rage and supposedly die herself. This would cause the Shredder seek vengeance upon the Turtles for Karai.

Of course it turns out that Karai is still alive, but still somewhat messed up because of her brain washing. So when she seeks the Turtles out, she knows that she won't be accepted with open arms but she will have people she can finally trust who can help her. And learn about what sort of man her father had been to the Turtles when he had been alive.

And it makes the war against the Shredder all the more personal for the Turtles and Co, not just Karai.

So perhaps if Karai does seek out the turtles as friends, there could be a point where Raph or April giving a Katara to Zuko-esk statement of..."You may have everyone else convinced you're on the good side, but one slip up and I promise I will end you."

And that would of course lead into a bunch of: one on one story lines between Karai and on of the Turtles. Maybe not Mikey or Casey because they don't really need one on ones with her.

But certainly Leo, Donnie, Raph, and April are going to need to have a one on one plots with her to finally accept her as an ally.

[GoldMutant]

Though having Splinter be lost despite saving the world could open up new avenues for the Turtles and Karai.

Assuming having Karai is still brainwashed by Shredder but she's at a mentality where everyone is the enemy. She could seek to capture and torture the Turtles, April, and Casey in an attempt to get Splinter again.

Only this time instead of telling her she's mind controlled the Turtles will have to tell her that Splinter is deceased. Due to the brain worms in her head, she is going insist they are lying and trying to protect him.

However Shredder can confirm that Splinter died as his hand which would cause Karai to fly into an emotional rage and supposedly die herself. This would cause the Shredder seek vengeance upon the Turtles for Karai.

Of course it turns out that Karai is still alive, but still somewhat messed up because of her brain washing. So when she seeks the Turtles out, she knows that she won't be accepted with open arms but she will have people she can finally trust who can help her. And learn about what sort of man her father had been to the Turtles when he had been alive.

And it makes the war against the Shredder all the more personal for the Turtles and Co, not just Karai.

So perhaps if Karai does seek out the turtles as friends, there could be a point where Raph or April giving a Katara to Zuko-esk statement of..."You may have everyone else convinced you're on the good side, but one slip up and I promise I will end you."

Even if it develops the hatred for Shredder by the Turtles, it doesn't address they can't handle tragedy well nor build off it. It's obvious that when Earth is normal, Karai is going to be in a better state, hopefully controlling powers a la the Hulk. (please do it!)Raph, Slash, and Rockwell were hurt, but they recovered quickly by the worms with little conflict. It's easy to see the same will happen to Karai, mental transformation or not, she'll recover then go insane again.

Remember with season 2 in the Invasion, a finale that possibly killed Splinter, LH, and badly hurt Leo? Other than Leo injured, they don't address LH and Splinter only gets screentime twice, the vision in Vision Quest and the mental declined rat in the Return to New York. They couldn't address the emotional issue there, so that begs the question of they'll do it this time? I still stand by my reason it's only to shock the audience then we get a happy ending.

Again, we can throw our theories in, but I still have doubts. It's a good direction, but given how they handle their tragedies and Splinter's possible first death in season 2, I have low expectations this will lead to anything.

[victory_angel]

Even if it develops the hatred for Shredder by the Turtles, it doesn't address they can't handle tragedy well nor build off it. It's obvious that when Earth is normal, Karai is going to be in a better state, hopefully controlling powers a la the Hulk. (please do it!)Raph, Slash, and Rockwell were hurt, but they recovered quickly by the worms with little conflict. It's easy to see the same will happen to Karai, mental transformation or not, she'll recover then go insane again.

She coughed up the initial worm, but she still has at least one other worm crawling around in her brain as we see at least a second worm getting injected into her head during the first five minutes of 'Attack of the Mega Shredder" So she isn't completely free of the Shredder yet.

Remember with season 2 in the Invasion, a finale that possibly killed Splinter, LH, and badly hurt Leo? Other than Leo injured, they don't address LH and Splinter only gets screen time twice, the vision in Vision Quest and the mental declined rat in the Return to New York. They couldn't address the emotional issue there, so that begs the question of they'll do it this time? I still stand by my reason it's only to shock the audience then we get a happy ending.

The Turtles didn't know about Leatherhead's involvement during the invasion. The only people they knew were injured were Leo. Splinter they watched getting sucked down the drain and we do have a final moment at the end to indicate that he was still alive. And even the Turtles were left clinging to a shred of hope that he possibly had survived but were forced to assume the worst. And then fast forward to three months later when the Turtles and co are way done with grieving.

This recent finale we have the Turtles have witnessed Splinter and their world dying before their very eyes.

The group going back in time several months that is a given, but that doesn't cheapen Splinter's death. Because they still have that journey to prevent the invasion from happening.

It is still possible that even though they succeed in saving the world from certain doom. Splinter is still lost to them in the process.

I had asked Brandon Auman if we would see anything from that three month gap between the season two finale and the season three premier. And he never answered back. He's good about answering questions when he can. So not answering in this case could mean anything he says would involve spoilers.

Ciro himself during the recent comic con has stated that he has cried a couple of times during Splinter's death scene. He knows the upcoming story a lot better then we do at this time. While that maybe pure reaction to the emotional depth of that moment in production. If he already knows Splinter is going to be brought back to life and everything will be hunky dory then he would have lesser reason to shed tears.

Which brings us back to the three month gap...it would make sense to have the Turtles skip over the grieving process because the they would be grieving again a season later.

And second when they are going on this adventure they are left with a view point of "If we do this...we can save Splinter and the rest of the world! Then everything will be as it was!"

However if the Turtles are given a point where they need to grieve for what they have lost a second or third time. Then it would make sense to have that moment tie in to what things were like for the other Turtles while they were at the farm house waiting for Leo to wake up.

[Tarris Vaal]

Quoted from Victory Angel
The group going back in time several months that is a given, but that doesn't cheapen Splinter's death. Because they still have that journey to prevent the invasion from happening.

It is still possible that even though they succeed in saving the world from certain doom. Splinter is still lost to them in the process.


Personally I think that scenario is the likeliest, that Splinter will be lost and but the world saved. I wouldn't be surprised to see some visions or dreams or flashbacks of Splinter in later episodes though.



I'm actually more intrigued if they are going to answer the question of exactly how they intend to change history without crossing their own timeline.

Especially with the obvious Dr Who references and wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff :)

Given that the Turtles were pretty much everywhere from the battle on Earth to the Triceraton command ship in that event, there isnt really anywhere the turtles can go (that we know of) that they wouldn't interact with their past selves.

At bare minimum they would want to consider trying to save Splinter after all

[cookie jar]

He will be resurrected. This is kids show after all.
Personally I dislike killing characters and resurrecting them when it doesn't seem to mean anything. I want to see the turtles having to deal with emotions, learning to stand without guidance. But I have a feeling that's not what's going to happen that the writers, as they've done on some other occasions, are going to take the easy way out so emotional impact of Splinter's death will become utterly meaningless and then move on to the next 'spectacle'.

[GoldMutant]

She coughed up the initial worm, but she still has at least one other worm crawling around in her brain as we see at least a second worm getting injected into her head during the first five minutes of 'Attack of the Mega Shredder" So she isn't completely free of the Shredder yet.



The Turtles didn't know about Leatherhead's involvement during the invasion. The only people they knew were injured were Leo. Splinter they watched getting sucked down the drain and we do have a final moment at the end to indicate that he was still alive. And even the Turtles were left clinging to a shred of hope that he possibly had survived but were forced to assume the worst. And then fast forward to three months later when the Turtles and co are way done with grieving.

This recent finale we have the Turtles have witnessed Splinter and their world dying before their very eyes.

The group going back in time several months that is a given, but that doesn't cheapen Splinter's death. Because they still have that journey to prevent the invasion from happening.

It is still possible that even though they succeed in saving the world from certain doom. Splinter is still lost to them in the process.

I had asked Brandon Auman if we would see anything from that three month gap between the season two finale and the season three premier. And he never answered back. He's good about answering questions when he can. So not answering in this case could mean anything he says would involve spoilers.

Ciro himself during the recent comic con has stated that he has cried a couple of times during Splinter's death scene. He knows the upcoming story a lot better then we do at this time. While that maybe pure reaction to the emotional depth of that moment in production. If he already knows Splinter is going to be brought back to life and everything will be hunky dory then he would have lesser reason to shed tears.

Which brings us back to the three month gap...it would make sense to have the Turtles skip over the grieving process because the they would be grieving again a season later.

And second when they are going on this adventure they are left with a view point of "If we do this...we can save Splinter and the rest of the world! Then everything will be as it was!"

However if the Turtles are given a point where they need to grieve for what they have lost a second or third time. Then it would make sense to have that moment tie in to what things were like for the other Turtles while they were at the farm house waiting for Leo to wake up.

VA, Karai is free. That machine holds no purpose at this point for one simple reason: it can easily just strengthen the worm inside her. There's a very good doubt the second Earth is bada bing, bada boom healed she's back to square one again.

Keyword though: possibly. Mikey was the only one who had hope of Splinter being alive when thrown into the drainage, as Raphael went berserk and April and Donnie shared a moment. There is still no justification why they choose three months for Leo's injury coma, nor address the Leatherhead possible death, none. It should have been at least a month, not three to not show grief or any kind of emotional turmoil, which should have happened in Vision Quest. One member of my family was in a coma, this was before my time or probably anyone else on here. Death or not, the fact that one time Splinter is assumed dead, everyone is fine before Vision Quest shows up. It's completely wrong.

If it wasn't obvious before, the show cheapens it's tragedies fourfold. (;)) Karai and MM are still suffering and are cannon fodder at this point when at one point they both were interesting characters. I can like Splinter as much as I want in this show, but the fact that the show does what it does with tragedies demonstrates very little faith on Splinter having a meaningful demise. They aren't going to use the farmhouse, evidence or not per say with more episodes. Even if so, I have reasonable doubt that in the long run, even with the adventures this will be for the shock value reasoning I stated before.

Like I said before, the direction has potential, but don't bet against Splinter having a meaningful death in the future. The opportunity I guarantee will be lost and leave zero impact if season 3 was any indication with the opportunity present.

[Shark_Blade]

Nah he wouldn't die. :)

[Eurydemus]

Apparently Nieli and Auman "confirmed" Splinter's demise at NYCC. This link (http://www.gamezone.com/news/confimation-from-nycc-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-rip-splinter-1987-2015-3426140) and one other posted in the TMNT subreddit seem to suggest Splinter's really gone. However, a part of me wonders if he's "dead" like how IDW Donatello was "dead" in the way Tom Waltz meant (i.e. yes, technically so-and-so is dead, kaput, etc., but...).

[Galactus]

He'll definitely be back.

I must admit though that as genuinely well executed the finale was including Splinter's death it feels too similar to the previous season finale and set up for the next.

Splinter being "dead" and the turtles, April and Casey forced out to spend the first half of the next season away from their primary setting. I think it would have been better if the turtles had taken Splinter's body with them and quickly establish he was near death and put in stasis.

[victory_angel]

VA, Karai is free. That machine holds no purpose at this point for one simple reason: it can easily just strengthen the worm inside her. There's a very good doubt the second Earth is bada bing, bada boom healed she's back to square one again.

The Shredder in this incarnation is crazier then Caligula, and the way he was talking to her did suggest he was adding another Brain-worm to strengthen his control over her.

It just fells to simple to me that she is completely free. I mean yeah even if she was free of the Shredder's control, she still wouldn't let the Turtles find her because she would feel she wasn't worthy of being around the Turtles or Splinter with what she did to them.

But if she has a second worm on the brain, that worm she coughed up would mean that she still sees the Turtles as her enemies because that is what she is forced to believe. But now she sees the Shredder as her enemy as well because he was forcing her to do his bidding against her will. Since her brain would be torn between what is real and what is a fabrication of the truth so she will just see everyone as her enemy and hope that some how she would reach a state of catharsis.

If it wasn't obvious before, the show cheapens it's tragedies fourfold. (;)) Karai and MM are still suffering and are cannon fodder at this point when at one point they both were interesting characters. I can like Splinter as much as I want in this show, but the fact that the show does what it does with tragedies demonstrates very little faith on Splinter having a meaningful demise.


Look at it this way...Would you like to see a season start off with the Turtles emoting over all they have lost. And then have the next season start off with the same thing.

Once is okay...but twice in a row people would be complaining about how a Turtles act like a bunch of cry baby's when they are defeated.

I don't think Ciro would have cried about Splinter's death if he knew that Splinter would just return next season and everything would be back as it should be. I mean he might shed a tear or two...but not actual crying.

So far with the finale the Turtles have had only one major win and that was in season 1.

Season two the Turtles have major loss, both in completing the mission and in the loss of a loved one. Again the Turtles don't know Leatherhead is supposedly dead because it was only Splinter and Shredder in that moment. As far as they knew Leatherhead was alive and well. Splinter they has absolutely no official proof that Splinter was dead, they just knew he was gone. And until there was some proof as to otherwise they are forced to assume the worst...but still keep a small hope at the possibility he could be still alive. And the audience knows he's still alive through this moment.

http://screencapped.net/animation/tmnt/albums/userpics/10002/normal_TMNT2_26_1232.jpg

Season Three the Turtles suffer an even worse defeat in that they lost Splinter and their entire world in a matter of moment. So this journey is going to be almost a false hope to them.

Meaning they go back X number of months.
They seek out the parts of the heart of darkness, befriend Traximus and Monzaram, defeat or overthrow Zenramon.
While this is going on, Triceraton invasion still takes place
Splinter calls upon the Shredder to help him deal with the Triceraton Threat.
Earth is saved but Splinter is still murdered by Shredder during the event.


Thus having the Turtles win the battle, but there isn't any sense of achievement in it because it would be as though they had come that far only to still lose in the long run.

Having a character die doesn't mean the character is completely killed off. He can still make appearances in flash backs or in visions. If there is ever a time when Splinter would truly be gone, that would be when his sons give up on themselves and what he had taught them.

[Luigiperps]

I would love to see Splinter stay dead. Not that I dislike this Splinter, I've just always felt Splinter should eventually die so the turtles could mature more. However, I think that the likely hood of him reamaining dead is slim.

[BubblyShell22]

As much as I'd hate for Splinter to be dead, I think it would be a different take on things and help the Turtles grow more. And if Pretty Little Liars has taught me anything, it's that characters never truly stay dead as they always come back in flashbacks, so the same can be done for this show with Splinter. Or maybe he can come back via the Astral Plane. So I'm kind of on the fence at this point though I did initially vote no.

[ssjup81]

Well, if that rumor is true, seems he will remain dead. I guess what I said earlier isn't so unlikely after all...them managing to prevent earth's destruction, but unable to prevent Splinter's death because it was fated for him to die, like how it was fated for Tang Shen to die and for Saki to raise Miwa.

[victory_angel]

Well, if that rumor is true, seems he will remain dead. I guess what I said earlier isn't so unlikely after all...them managing to prevent earth's destruction, but unable to prevent Splinter's death because it was fated for him to die, like how it was fated for Tang Shen to die and for Saki to raise Miwa.

As sad as it would be for them to lose Splinter, it can be a good thing. I mean yeah it sucks that he's gone. And his absence will hurt for a time and perhaps always will. But in his absence the Turtles are able to grow and develop more on their own and rely on each other as a team. Having 'Daddy' still there would hold him back because they would always be looking towards him for guidance.

And just because Splinter is gone, it doesn't mean he won't be a presence in their lives. He would still exist in each of their hearts and memories of each of them. And if there is ever a moment they need him he will be there to offer what guidance he can through dreams, through visions, through memories.

But as long as the six of them have each other and continue to live their lives doing what is right Splinter will always be there.

[Luckyday]

At this point, I seriously do not trust their word regarding anything on what goes on in the actual show. For now, I just have "a wait and see" attitude because a lot of the production can be change and reorganized at the last minute.

If Splinter stays dead, then maybe I take this show a little more seriously but as of now of with Splinter being dead feels more like a ploy to get people to talk about the show like when Family Guy kill off Brian the dog.

[GoldMutant]

At this point, I seriously do not trust their word regarding anything on what goes on in the actual show. For now, I just have "a wait and see" attitude because a lot of the production can be change and reorganized at the last minute.

If Splinter stays dead, then maybe I take this show a little more seriously but as of now of with Splinter being dead feels more like a ploy to get people to talk about the show like when Family Guy kill off Brian the dog.

Pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell, though FG is far away from me. ;)

I'm going to be frank, anyone can believe what they want but to me, there is going to be no justification with Splinter killed after Karai and Leo had nothing built off this season. None what so ever, I'm sick of debating the issue, Splinter is going to get no flashbacks or anything even if they keep him killed. We can debate all day but here's the thing on the tragedies on the show has done as I said many times:

Why did the previous three months at Northampton have no flashback?
Why set up a tragedy such as Timothy and fail to capitilize?
Why leave Karai on the backburner with mind control?

I'm not defending the show with this because quite frankly, it's a rumor once more and I'm not resorting to theories. Splinter can remain dead, because at this point there's going to be no build off him in the following episodes to come upon the world going to normal. If they didn't do it in Northampton, they aren't doing it here.

[Ursalink]

There's no way I'm gonna accept Splinter stays dead!!!

Time travel clearly leaves the door open to changes reality and stuff. Killing Splinter will only leave the Turtles potentially blinded by revenge, like Shredder, and they won't stop until they end him and the Foot Clan. Like they say "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind".

Who else is going to train the Turtles if Splinter is gone? The most potential option would be Karai, but she would be blinded by rage and there's always the chance she ends under the Shredder's control again.

[victory_angel]

There's no way I'm gonna accept Splinter stays dead!!!

Time travel clearly leaves the door open to changes reality and stuff. Killing Splinter will only leave the Turtles potentially blinded by revenge, like Shredder, and they won't stop until they end him and the Foot Clan. Like they say "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind".

The big difference is the Turtles are better people then the Shredder.

The Shredder is blinded with anger and hatred over wrongs he personally believes were committed. And blames others for the sins that he himself has caused. His Henchmen don't work well together because the Shredder doesn't value virtues such as unity, honesty, and compassion. He only values loyalty, obedience, and ambition. All of his henchmen were chosen because they had a skill or a mindset he found useful to his goals. But ultimately each one of them is replaceable in the long run. When Shredder killed Splinter, he had hoped that by killing Splinter he had reached a sense of catharsis but instead his victory appears to leave him with a sense of emptiness. Like there is no satisfaction in the deed.

The Turtles on the other hand were taught that vengeance only does nothing but gain more sorrow and hatred. They rely on one another because they know they are all they truly have. Each one has something to offer the team and they value what everyone is able to give. Even though they know the world outside their sewer dwelling will never truly they accept them as people. It's who they are as individuals that has enabled them to gain the allies and friends they have. Their strength doesn't come from anger or power...it comes from their unity with themselves and with their allies.
With Splinter gone, they would have to rely on all he has taught them while he was alive and what their hearts tell them as they face the world as a team.

Who else is going to train the Turtles if Splinter is gone? The most potential option would be Karai, but she would be blinded by rage and there's always the chance she ends under the Shredder's control again.

The Turtles would be able to train each other, second season it was mostly Leo who had taken over training his brothers. And in third season, Raph took over training in Leo's absence.

Karai at this point is a lose cannon however it's likely she is not with the Foot Clan any longer. If she returns the Turtle's would welcome her back as a member of their family if and when she is truly ready to be with them. But that is a choice she must make on her own.

[myconius]

this show would lose a great presence as well as entertainment points if Splinter was gone for good.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Since Splinter's death occured in Annihilation Earth, the Turtles returned 6 months in time with Fugitoid to collect the pieces of the black hole generator and prevent Splinter's death.

[Kingoji]

Not even a question that he'll be back.
And I hope when he is the first thing he does is put Shredder down hard. I've missed that bad ass rat this series.

[Powder]

Splinter's like Goku, he always comes back.

[CyberCubed]

Splinter's like Goku, he always comes back.

Oh, man, its him again, isn't it? :lol:

[Aaronardo]

Splinter's like Goku, he always comes back.

God, at this point I'm kinda suspicious of any new members on whether or not they're Goku.

But on topic, Splinter should definitely not return. It'd give great character development for all four of the Turtles at the same time, even if they cope with it in different ways, and give them an even greater reason to after Shredder. If Season 4's second-half focuses on how the Turtles have changed due to Splinter being dead for good (and that it could even be their own fault), I might consider this season to actually be a success.

However, this show hates character development and dark writing with any sort of quality now, so Splinter is going to return. No doubts.

[IndigoErth]

No doubt he'll be back within the season finale.

Still young, they still need their dad/teacher in their lives, even if this season has the potential (even if it doesn't take it) to mature them up a bit more after all of this.

[GoldMutant]

Let's not jump the gun there folks. ;)

Anyways, we did have a thread dedicated to the topic before you came along there bro, here is the link: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=53496

Anyways, if you want to know my stance, well:
I have mentioned the show failing it's tragedies before, but is it bad I didn't care for Splinter dying at all? Hear me out on this...

I'm going to ignore the novel for this as it's easier, but looking back, the show really hasn't built off it's depressing moments. I've mentioned Mutagen Man and Karai several times as examples, but Splinter really is settling up there. For example, take the Invasion when Splinter was thrown into the whirlpool by Shredder. Yes, all those present reacted how they did and it was executed well, by far one of my favorite scenes of the series. Then, it takes a serious case of ignoring the event in question.

During Northampton, the show had a perfect opportunity on the emotional turmoil with the fatherly figure of Splinter, which was brought up in his presumed demise in Within the Woods. However, as that arc proceeded onward, all conflicts in NYC for building off were few and far between. The only true time they contributed to Splinter is Vision Quest with his spirit directly out of the 1990 live action film. Following that episode, he's feral in Return to New York briefly, then all of a sudden back to normal thanks to deus ex April.

I can understand if I need to take time into account and imagine it for myself, but the issue is a television show should explain the context of what occurs. Even if I have fun doing it and immerses me further into the product, it doesn't contribute much to the plot. It ruins the significance of any event present if the character isn't handled well; considering Splinter's importance has declined heavily, they needed one major event to trump season 2 and 1. Balance of FW and 4kids or not, there's no justification to me on this at all.

Due to what they did with ignoring MM and failing to do meaningful ideas with Karai, this tragedy holds no place in my heart. It is simply for shock value and I'm not buying into it going into season 4. Not trying to be a Negative Nancy as I do love this Splinter, but I honestly don't trust what's set in store. It's essentially a double edged sword for me: if he survives, that proves these events are just shock values for minor setbacks. However, if Splinter is truly dead, I expect him to have an effect on the Turtles, Casey, and April (even Karai!) or it'll remain another failure on the show's part tragedy wise.

Either it's a revival without any substance from this whole thing barring shock value, he is killed again, or Splinter remains dead either with growth by the team or not. However, I honestly doubt there's development; Splinter's death personally is a main reason I find Annihilation: Earth severely overrated, I honestly feel Serpent Hunt and Tale of the Yokai as superior in the emotion department for Steranko and Zeck or Tang Shen respectively.

[picassotheninjaturtle]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if Splinter doesn't come back there's gunna be some major problems in the show. One being if Splinter doesn't come back then by logic Shredder and other villains wont return.:ohwell:

[GoldMutant]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if Splinter doesn't come back there's gunna be some major problems in the show. One being if Splinter doesn't come back then by logic Shredder and other villains wont return.:ohwell:

Shredder is returning, there was clear mention of season 5 scripts with Fishface appearing in some capacity. Why kill the main villain off like that? My point is Splinter's death is nothing of significant value by this point; either they revive him and completely wasted the potential of his death as an arc or keep him dead altogether.

If you're going to kill Splinter off I get that, but the fact is he did nearly nothing in season 3; only two major instances of his role occurred which were Return to New York and The Fourfold Trap as the main instances of him driving the story. Other instances were being a parent again in Noxious Avenger or teaching the skill of healing hands in Deadly Venom. Otherwise, compared to the emotional throwaway in The Invasion, Splinter's death is too grossly overrated. If you want to kill a main character I get that, but at least do something with it; that's one of my biggest gripes with his death.

[victory_angel]

Ciro had mentioned he cried at least a couple of times about that moment where Splinter died. Because he had to see it over and over again during production. And being producer he would certainly know whats going to happen in the story a lot more then we do.

I doubt he would have cried if Splinter was just going to come back to life.

And during an interview he had at New York Comic Con, Ciro stated that the Turtles and Splinter live by the sword and to not show the consequences of that sort of life is inappropriate.

We know the best case scenario is that The Turtles save Earth and save Splinter. However best case isn't always the obtainable outcome.

Sometimes Victory doesn't come with a happy end...it comes with a heavy price. So it's plausible that the situation would be a catch 22 that has only one possible conclusion.

Saving Splinter at the cost of the world.
And saving the world even though that means losing Splinter.

Back in season one Splinter did tell Leonardo "With the fate of the world at stake, you must complete the mission no matter what or who you must sacrifice."

In other words if the choice is saving the one and saving the many...the lives of the many out weigh the life of the one.

Splinter would never appreciate being saved from certain doom at the cost of millions of innocent people.

Even though I can see Leo coming to conclusions that fly in the face of his morals to achieve the Best Scenario outcome...I can still see the Turtles make the decision to save the Earth...even if it means they would have to say good bye to Splinter. And even if Splinter does in fact die for good and all...that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a character any longer. He'd certainly appear to his sons in visions and dreams...Kinda like force ghost splinter from the visionquest and the 90's movie. And he can also appear through flash backs.

[GoldMutant]

Ciro had mentioned he cried at least a couple of times about that moment where Splinter died. Because he had to see it over and over again during production. And being producer he would certainly know whats going to happen in the story a lot more then we do.

I doubt he would have cried if Splinter was just going to come back to life.

And during an interview he had at New York Comic Con, Ciro stated that the Turtles and Splinter live by the sword and to not show the consequences of that sort of life is inappropriate.

We know the best case scenario is that The Turtles save Earth and save Splinter. However best case isn't always the obtainable outcome.

Sometimes Victory doesn't come with a happy end...it comes with a heavy price. So it's plausible that the situation would be a catch 22 that has only one possible conclusion.

Saving Splinter at the cost of the world.
And saving the world even though that means losing Splinter.

Back in season one Splinter did tell Leonardo "With the fate of the world at stake, you must complete the mission no matter what or who you must sacrifice."

In other words if the choice is saving the one and saving the many...the lives of the many out weigh the life of the one.

Splinter would never appreciate being saved from certain doom at the cost of millions of innocent people.

Even though I can see Leo coming to conclusions that fly in the face of his morals to achieve the Best Scenario outcome...I can still see the Turtles make the decision to save the Earth...even if it means they would have to say good bye to Splinter. And even if Splinter does in fact die for good and all...that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a character any longer. He'd certainly appear to his sons in visions and dreams...Kinda like force ghost splinter from the visionquest and the 90's movie. And he can also appear through flash backs.

Um...... no, the producer statements are what they are, claims to hide a purpose. I hate to bring this up as a comparison, but I'm going to bring up the "Death of Brian" trilogy from Family Guy. I'm well aware that comparing the Ninja Turtles franchise to a show that tries to appeal to a low brand of comedy and shock value is wrong, but here me out on this, even with Seth's rather infamous attitude.

When Brian died in Life of Brian, it contradicted his character that derailed over the years; the newer Brian is a much more dangerous and unstable dog, putting others in the way instead of being a sarcastic character. Seth is clearly the most comfortable is the role as it's regular speaking voice when compared to Stewie, Peter, Glenn Quagmire, etc. Following the death, they expect to shed sympathy by manipulating the audience; then to make matters worse, they bring in Vinnie for no good reason. After a full episode, they revive Brian and it's so contrived that it's a disgusting ratings trap; Seth also went on Twitter about this, saying:

http://familyguy.wikia.com/wiki/Christmas_Guy/Notes/Trivia (My computer can't access Twitter, but the beginning of the trivia are his own words.)

I refuse to compare MacFarlane to Ciro or Brandon despite my animosity towards the show, the fact remains though to never trust a creative team until a show ends. Add in the fact that out of the six episodes soon to be seven so far, they've only brought up Splinter on camera once and that was Riddles of the Ancient Aeons as the brief mentioning in Beyond the Known Universe is like I said a brief dialogue piece. Furthermore, take season 3 for example, the perfect time to reflect on Splinter's presumed "death" by Shredder in The Invasion. Outside headcanon and fanfiction, he only appeared once in Northampton, directly lifted from the movie in Vision Quest with Spirit Splinter.

Keep in mind of Life of Brian's trilogy and other programs not on the top of my mind, and compare it to something strong like Digimon Tamers. I do not expect Splinter's death to hold no significance, it's mere shock value at best in a show relying on shocking the audience rather than developing the heroes from such issues. I've said on numerous occasions now, either they are going to revive him like Brian Griffin without any situation callbacks, or his death will be left behind without meaning without growth; this is the biggest arc of a TMNT show, and nothing is done so far. :ohwell:

Someone told me it may have involve Splinter's return in the mystical elements depending on what occurs in season 5, so either way I'm holding my breath. Either way, I know I'm right on the money on any situation for the death. (Sorry guys, I honestly need to get this explained, maybe I can make a full on assessment, but the concept just frustrates me to no end :ohwell:)

[ssjup81]

Splinter's like Goku, he always comes back.With a power level over 9000? ^^. *dodges rotten fruits and vegetables*

Bad jokes aside, I want him to remain dead and use him in flashbacks.

[Aaronardo]

I guess it should also be worth noting that one of the original concepts for this show was that Splinter was already dead and would only appear in flashback form. I really wish that's what they went with, in all honesty, and here the writers have the ability to make it a reality. Not holding my breath, though, these writers have managed to f*ck everything that could relate to character development or something of substance happening up.

[Kingoji]

Maybe no-one has grieved because it's more complicated than 'Spinter is dead'.
I mean, yes, he was run through by the Shredder, but mere moments later the Shredder himself, along with everyone they've ever known, friend or foe, the entire population of the planet, Earth *itself*... is utterly annihilated.
And then mere moments after THAT they are whisked back in time six months, so none of it has happened anyway.
That's the thing to consider here; the reset button has already been mashed. The question isn't "will they bring Splinter back from the dead", because he has't died yet. The question is "how will things play out from here?"
Because by the very nature of the season's premise, things are ALREADY going to go differently. It may be that the TMNT prevent the gathering of the generator parts, precluding the need for an alliance with Shredder, or Splinter being placed in that situation in the first place. The idea that Splinter will die again is rooted in the assumption that the Turtles will fail in their mission for the season and that events on Earth are currently playing out the way they always have.
Hell, the Triceraton that Raph tried to befriend is probably still out here waiting for a reunion. Get to him, the Triceratons won't go near Earth in the first place.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

They are going to save both the Earth and Splinter. Some people are delusional. If the Turtles fail, both the Earth and Splinter is toast.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

By the way, did anyone notice a hologram version of Splinter in Riddle of the Ancient Aeons?

[thundermaster612]

By the way, did anyone notice a hologram version of Splinter in Riddle of the Ancient Aeons?

you got pics?
____________________

I kind of want him to be dead but I kind of don't.
What I'm thinking is that it could be like the turtles are by themselves but when they need help from Splinter he could advise them or something, sadly the bad part about this is we won't get to see any Splinter action anymore

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

you got pics?
____________________

I kind of want him to be dead but I kind of don't.
What I'm thinking is that it could be like the turtles are by themselves but when they need help from Splinter he could advise them or something, sadly the bad part about this is we won't get to see any Splinter action anymore

Right here: https://40.media.tumblr.com/a0e683341c521bf57598d23a906cc859/tumblr_o0vpsdFOkx1tt7sqio1_1280.png

[Powder]

No, nobody noticed the thing that they dedicated an entire scene to at the beginning of the episode.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

I wanted to see Splinter alive again. Now that the Turtles are back 6 months before "Annihilation Earth" occurs, He should be okay for now. They better get the pieces of the black hole device. The fate of their friends and their sensei is at stake.

[Splinter the boss]

Not really, since they already have one piece of it.

[shredder orokusaki]

No. I was trying to kill him for so many years! He can not and he will NOT return!! LET HIM STAY DEAD!!!

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

No. I was trying to kill him for so many years! He can not and he will NOT return!! LET HIM STAY DEAD!!!

:tgrumble: On second thought. I find you too evil when you kill Splinter like that.

[shredder orokusaki]

:tgrumble: On second thought. I find you too evil when you kill Splinter like that.

That right! I am too evil!!!

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Wait a second. Wasn't the past versions of the Turtles, April and Casey are with Splinter?

[Vicky82]

Wait a second. Wasn't the past versions of the Turtles, April and Casey are with Splinter?

Yes they are. If the present turtles stop The Triceratons from invading and destroying the earth then Splinter is saved but he could end up dieing some other way due to fate.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Yes they are. If the present turtles stop The Triceratons from invading and destroying the earth then Splinter is saved but he could end up dieing some other way due to fate.

What kind of fate?

[Vicky82]

What kind of fate?

Getting killed by Shredder but in a different way or someone else kills him or dieing from a heart attack.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Getting killed by Shredder but in a different way or someone else kills him or dieing from a heart attack.

Or about old age? Does that count?

[Vicky82]

Or about old age? Does that count?

Well it depends how old he is, I assume he's in his 50s/60s or maybe his rat mutation changes that because rats only live for a few years.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Well it depends how old he is, I assume he's in his 50s/60s or maybe his rat mutation changes that because rats only live for a few years.

Since Hamato Yoshi (Splinter) is a mutant rat, doesn't that mean he'll live for a few years? :tconfuse:

[Vicky82]

Since Hamato Yoshi (Splinter) is a mutant rat, doesn't that mean he'll live for a few years? :tconfuse:

I don't know, I was guessing.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

I don't know, I was guessing.

Me too. I was wondering. And I'm guessing that if Splinter's still dead when the Turtles return to Earth they could take him to the Utroms so they could put him in the stasis tube.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Af the Earth is toast, should that mean the Moon is orbiting the Sun directly instead? :)

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Af the Earth is toast, should that mean the Moon is orbiting the Sun directly instead? :)

It depends. :tsmile:

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Sorry I forgot to put the question and I had to restart the poll. Who wants Splinter to return in Season 4?

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=54321

[Shark_Blade]

Of course he must return!

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Of course he must return!

I know! He should! :tgrin: :tlol:

[Etsyturtle2]

I want to keep splinter dead for character development and emotional impact. Not because I couldn't care less.:tconfuse:

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Well I hate character development and emotional impact/dark writings. So Splinter is definitely returning. And no one says otherwise. :tmad:

[Powder]

Why are you making a duplicate thread?

[victory_angel]

Splinter has cheated death once before...and he's died once before.
twice if you count the Deus Ex Machina that is his sons going 16 years into the past to ensure he survived his fight with Shredder
Ciro has pointed out that these are characters who live by the sword and to not include the consequences would be in appropriate.
Which leaves us at the will Splinter live or die debate because yeah Splinter's death could be for shock value. But unlike Family Guy and Such Shows...TMNT doesn't need to rely on shock value
and having the Turtles go back in time and save Splinter is the same as not showing the consequences of someone who chooses to live by the sword and sometimes as a metaphor for growing up, losses need to occur.
That's why Disney or Pixar or Dream works needs to have parent, sibling, friend, or someone important die or suffer an implied death or a great change has to occur such as the family moving to a new city as a metaphor for growing up.

The Turtles are at this current time 17-18 years old...and while they would always need Splinter as a father, they have been needing him as a teacher less and less. 17-18 on average is the around the time kids start leaving home...considering what their life is going to be. Attend college...find careers, find love.

And even if Splinter dies, that doesn't mean he dies as a character. He can still be a presence in their lives through their memories of him and the impact he's had with their lives. And for maybe one episode it could be the Turtles wondering how they are going to move forward and continue on without their teacher. As they likely have felt there was still much more they could have learned from him. But gradually they will all accept that as long as the four of them have each other and their community of friends and psudo-family, they will remain ever vigilant and follow their fathers legacy.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Splinter is a great character. I'll say Splinter should be alive after the Turtles saved the Earth.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Splinter should be okay with the past versions of the turtles.

[Autbot_Benz]

wow you are obsessed with Splinter its kinda scary

[GoldMutant]

wow you are obsessed with Splinter its kinda scary

Can you contribute for once on the forums without instigating? :roll: Seriously man.

Either way, still sticking to my gut of Splinter's revival or if he remains dead, then he gets no mentioning.

[Powder]

Splinter should be okay with the past versions of the turtles.

Let the thread die already, Christ. There's nothing more to say, you're just repeating yourself to bump a thread you made.

[myconius]

esentially, it's a TV show that (even though it has something for the adults) is targeted a young children.
theres NO way Nick would kill him for good!!!

are you kidding?? think of all the Splinter action figure sales they'd loose!!!

[neatoman]

So after watching the latest episode it made me wonder why Splinter's death is still treated like it's meant to be taken seriously? The episode right after his death had the main characters travel back in time to prevent the scenario that lead to his death from ever happening, even the little kids this show is intended for must have figured that one out so it's impossible to take his death seriously.

[myconius]

So after watching the latest episode it made me wonder why Splinter's death is still treated like it's meant to be taken seriously? The episode right after his death had the main characters travel back in time to prevent the scenario that lead to his death from ever happening, even the little kids this show is intended for must have figured that one out so it's impossible to take his death seriously.

technically, Splinter isn't really even dead anymore.

it's become a possible future they are trying to avoid.

[ToTheNines]

Well they're obviously going to thwart the Triceratons and destroy the black hole generator, but Shredder could still impale Splinter at a similar moment.

[Metalwolf]

esentially, it's a TV show that (even though it has something for the adults) is targeted a young children.
theres NO way Nick would kill him for good!!!

are you kidding?? think of all the Splinter action figure sales they'd loose!!!Land Before Time had a parent (main protagonist's mother) die on-screen. Bambi had his mother shot by a hunter (you could even hear the gunshot.) Simba from the Lion King had his father run down by a bunch of water buffalo, afterwards Simba tried to revive him, but his father was clearly dead by then.

All of these are kids' movies, but they weren't shy about portraying death of a parental figure. I don't think Nick will shy away from having Splinter remain dead either, considering that all of these other movies did it without traumatizing kids and that it's intended audience is a bit older now.

[myconius]

Land Before Time had a parent (main protagonist's mother) die on-screen. Bambi had his mother shot by a hunter (you could even hear the gunshot.) Simba from the Lion King had his father run down by a bunch of water buffalo, afterwards Simba tried to revive him, but his father was clearly dead by then.

All of these are kids' movies, but they weren't shy about portraying death of a parental figure. I don't think Nick will shy away from having Splinter remain dead either, considering that all of these other movies did it without traumatizing kids and that it's intended audience is a bit older now.

but they were motion pictures played in theaters.

television is a lot more strict.

even a show as dark as Batman the animated series has a strict list of rules they had to follow.

http://i.imgur.com/6Kmg3.jpg

[neatoman]

Well they're obviously going to thwart the Triceratons and destroy the black hole generator, but Shredder could still impale Splinter at a similar moment.

The entire moment happen BECAUSE he had to team up with Shredder to stop the black hole generator, that moment can't happen if the black hole generator is stopped. If they repeated the thing under different circumstances it would just feel cheap.

[victory_angel]

And yes there have been shows where there have been main character deaths. The last episode of Beast Wars has several loved characters dies.

The Animals of Farthing Wood Cartoon Series has a number of character deaths. Both on screen and implied.

Ciro has pointed out that these are characters who live by the sword and to *not* show the consequences of what happens to people who choose to live that life style is inappropriate.

The same is true for going back in time to stop said person from being killed. Because going back in time is a deos ex machina that says all death can be solved by changing the past. And the fact is...not all deaths can be prevented. And even if it was possible to prevent said death...worse things would occur if said death doesn't happen.

For example: In the Tales of the Yokai episode, the Turtles are sent back in time to stop Splinter from being killed by the Shredder. They wanted to save Tang Shen...they wanted to stop the Shredder from taking Karai. But in the end the only person they could save was Splinter because Shen was fated to Die and Karai was taken by Shredder. So the end result was that even though the Turtles won, they still felt like they failed.

If Splinter had either his wife or his daughter he would have no need for the Turtles. Splinter still possibly could have gotten Turtles if Shen was still alive, but their mutation more then likely wouldn't have occurred.

Where as if Splinter just had Miwa he wouldn't have gotten the Turtles period. Because Turtles do spread salmonella which is not something you want around an infant.

And both scenarios would have had the Kraang kidnap April and ultimately use her to take over the Earth unopposed.

So as sad as that may sound, Tang Shen was meant to die and Miwa was fated to be abducted and become the Turtles enemy (for a time) in order for the Turtles to exist and become the Heroes they were meant to be.

With Showdown there is a moment where Splinter takes Leonardo aside and says "With the fate of the world at stake, you need to complete the mission no matter what or who you must sacrifice"

In other words...if it comes down to a choice to saving the world as the cost of yourself and/or your brothers...or yourself and/or your brothers at the cost of the world. You should choose to save the world.

The same statement also true in the recent episode with Leo's talk with Splinter. Leo tells Splinter he has concerns because they have suffered defeat before and have been able to bounce back. But with this current mission...they have only one shot at success. And there is a lot at stake if they fail.

Splinters response was hold on to hope...rely on yourselves and each other. And no matter what happens know I am proud of you all.

The end result could play out in several ways. Since there are two sets of Turtles running about the current time frame Turtles who are on the Earth oblivious to the events that are going to happen in a matter of weeks if not months. And the Present Day Turtles who are in Space.


There is a highly probable likely hood that it could become a lose lose situation where they must save the Earth, even though it means losing Splinter. Or save Splinter even if it means forsaking the Earth.

And even if there is a way to prevent the Heart of Darkness destroying the Earth (regardless of whether Splinter lives or dies)

There is still the question of what happens to both groups of Turtles and that could play out in 4 different ways.

1. They merge with their counter parts so they have memories of their adventures in space but it would feel like it was all a dream.

2. With their timeline altered the present day Turtles fade into the ether because the circumstances that enabled their existence were prevented.

3. The present Day Turtles and Co find they have to sacrifice themselves as a family or let themselves be taken into the vortex in order to prevent the earth from being destroyed.

4. Present Day Turtles journey into space after saving the Earth because their presence on Earth would cause a time paradox if they encountered their past selves.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Well technically Splinter did say to Leo that he must hold onto hope in The Cosmic Ocean but Splinter will be alive no matter what happens to him and the Earth.

[myconius]

personally i just find it really hard to believe that a television show produced by Nickelodeon would actually kill Splinter off for good.

[shredder orokusaki]

Spinter is dead and will remain dead forever! You must accept it!

[neatoman]

Spinter is dead and will remain dead forever! You must accept it!

Well no, because that doesn't make sense. Technically speaking, he hasn't died yet and there's no way of the turtles completing their mission without preventing Splinter from dying that way.

[myconius]

Spinter is dead and will remain dead forever! You must accept it!

i'm not sure if i imagined this or not?
but did someone once mention something about this type of behavior not being allowed on the forums?

[Shark_Blade]

It's fine, he's a comic relief and I love it. :D

[shredder orokusaki]

Well no, because that doesn't make sense. Technically speaking, he hasn't died yet and there's no way of the turtles completing their mission without preventing Splinter from dying that way.

They can prevent the world from being destroyed by black generator because now the black generator will never exist but since splinter was kiled before the black generator destroys eartch they cant do nothing about it.

[Candy Kappa]

If the Turtles destroy the Black Hole generator before the Triceraton get their hands on it, the Invasion will never take place, and Shredder won't get the opportunity to kill Splinter.

[myconius]

If the Turtles destroy the Black Hole generator before the Triceraton get their hands on it, the Invasion will never take place, and Shredder won't get the opportunity to kill Splinter.

precisely!!!

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

If the Turtles destroy the Black Hole generator before the Triceraton get their hands on it, the Invasion will never take place, and Shredder won't get the opportunity to kill Splinter.

I agree with you too.

[Autbot_Benz]

i'm not sure if i imagined this or not?
but did someone once mention something about this type of behavior not being allowed on the forums?

mods won't do jack about it just ignore him he is just special in more ways than one.

[myconius]

mods won't do jack about it just ignore him he is just special in more ways than one.

hahahahaha!!!! i imagine you are quite right about that!!! :lol:

[shuriken]

I put on the fence... But he should stay dead.

[CyberCubed]

He's obviously going to be "revived" so I don't know why this is being discussed.

[myconius]

He's obviously going to be "revived" so I don't know why this is being discussed.

might as well just hope for Nickelodeon to start allowing nudity, smoking and swearing on the show?

or if the do start killing off characters, it'll be completely bloody with LOTS of guts and gore like something out of a George Romero film?

[TMNTInsighter]

Hello everybody. Nice to be here...1+ month later!

I've said this many times elsewhere and I'll say it again: there's no doubt Splinter's going to come back! Hello? Thanks to the Fugitoid it never happened!
I mean first off, I don't know how they're going to ultimately save the Earth but still you've gotta be thinking about this question: If everyone else is alive and well, and will be six months later, why can't Splinter be? Not to mention the fact that Hoon Lee's still part of the voice cast.
Second of all, if Splinter was going to permanently die, he would've been stabbed AFTER he stopped the BHG from activating. There would've been no point in reliving these events and risking a different outcome for just one life, no matter how personal. Ironically, Splinter dying when he died was actually the best thing that could've ever happened for him. Besides, I don't think his story is done, I'm sure there's still some unfinished business.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Splinter made his appearance in The Cosmic Ocean as a hologram and Trans-Dimensional Turtles. So Splinter is alive after all.

[Powder]

Holograms are not real people, & the other episode took place 6 months in the past. :trolleye:

[TMNTInsighter]

I think what he meant to say was that since Hoon Lee's obviously still part of the voice cast, Splinter won't be going anywhere.

[myconius]

yeah, the stakes are high but i really doubt they'd take us through this whole space adventure just to watch the turtles fail miserably and see Splinter die all over again?! :lol:

[Yoshimickster]

Feeeeeeeeeeee-ENCE! On the one hand it'd be a REALLY bold move, on the other, the turtles are only 15 and they NEED Splinter right now.

[victory_angel]

yeah, the stakes are high but i really doubt they'd take us through this whole space adventure just to watch the turtles fail miserably and see Splinter die all over again?! :lol:

Yeah, but there are tons of stories where people are on a journey to save humanity and the world itself from a great evil. But still lose one or more of the people they wanted to be alive at the end. See Harry Potter, divergent trilogy, hunger games, the golden compass (and its sequels) etc.

And even if Splinter dies that doesn't mean Hoon lee is out of the cast. Splinter can return in flashbacks, visions, dream sequences, overall memories.

[victory_angel]

Feeeeeeeeeeee-ENCE! On the one hand it'd be a REALLY bold move, on the other, the turtles are only 15 and they NEED Splinter right now.

Actually the Turtles would be 17 or 18 at this time. The show is just keeping them perpetually at 15 because they want them to remain as teenagers so long as the show is running.

[myconius]

Yeah, but there are tons of stories where people are on a journey to save humanity and the world itself from a great evil. But still lose one or more of the people they wanted to be alive at the end. See Harry Potter, divergent trilogy, hunger games, the golden compass (and its sequels) etc.

And even if Splinter dies that doesn't mean Hoon lee is out of the cast. Splinter can return in flashbacks, visions, dream sequences, overall memories.

i just don't see a kiddie network like Nickelodeon playing that card.

is it possible? .....maybe?

but it really doesn't seem like their style.

their ultimate goal - 'Sell Toys' 'Make Large Profits'

parents are more likely to spend money buying toys and merchandice for their kids on a tv show that lifts their spirits, not one that ultimately depresses them.

[Powder]

OT aside, TMNT's theme has always been "Life at best is bittersweet", & the Nick series has not pulled many punches. While it may not be terribly likely, I could definitely see them going that route. Ciro's original plan was for Splinter to have died either in or just prior to the first episode anyway, with his role being a solely flashback/spiritual appearance one. That could potentially happen from this point forward, assuming the suits are okay with it.

[myconius]

i guess we won't really know till the end of April?

the month that is!!! OH GEEZ!!! can you imagine??? :lol:

[myconius]

hows that for a poll?

would the tv series ever kill off April O'Neil?

[Powder]

Nooooo, they'd get lynched for axing their female lead.

[Vicky82]

i just don't see a kiddie network like Nickelodeon playing that card.

is it possible? .....maybe?

but it really doesn't seem like their style.

their ultimate goal - 'Sell Toys' 'Make Large Profits'

parents are more likely to spend money buying toys and merchandice for their kids on a tv show that lifts their spirits, not one that ultimately depresses them.

It wouldn't be depressing if we still see Splinter in the turtles memories, visions and dreams.

Before the series started, there were plans to have Splinter killed off but we still see him in the turtles memories ect.

It could still happen.

[Vicky82]

i guess we won't really know till the end of April?

the month that is!!! OH GEEZ!!! can you imagine??? :lol:

It probably won't happen at the end of April, Splinter will be alive but later he probably end up dieing in season 4 final.

[TMNTInsighter]

I told you all it would have had to happen afterwards if it was ever going to.

...Or that everyone else would've stayed dead as well.

[myconius]

Nooooo, they'd get lynched for axing their female lead.

that would be a HUUUUUUUGE risk!!!! :o
what with all the riots it'd cause! :lol:

but i don't think they'd ever do it?
though it would be pretty ballsy!

[Vicky82]

that would be a HUUUUUUUGE risk!!!! :o
what with all the riots it'd cause! :lol:

but i don't think they'd ever do it?
though it would be pretty ballsy!

They probably could do it but her death has to be temporary or in a episode like SAINW.

What if they kill off a turtle but again it has to be temporary or in a episode like SAINW.

[myconius]

They probably could do it but her death has to be temporary or in a episode like SAINW.

What if they kill off a turtle but again it has to be temporary or in a episode like SAINW.

that would make for a pretty compelling story actually!

[GoldMutant]

Let the thread die already, there's literally nothing to discuss at this point until the space arc ends. It's the same pattern: the OP will gives us info we're clearly aware of and it'll be called out. :roll: At this point, there's really no new discussion; I'm tired of repeating myself but for the sake of argument, I'll say it one more time:

In most TMNT media, again the primary theme is family. These creatures (not withstanding Splinter being a rat in specific iterations) are alone in the world to fend for themselves. Then add in Casey Jones, the everyman brother and April O'Neil, a surrogate sister. The bond is what makes the TMNT an enduring franchise outside the wacky adventures, merchandise, and subtlety. However, the bond for the Turtles is turning nonexistent with the exception of Riddles of the Ancient Aeons despite it's rather forced premise. Essentially the Turtles are less like brothers and more of roommates ala the Fred Wolf series personally. Sure, there's some goofing around especially with the crushes, but aside from comedy it doesn't feel balanced. Due to the structure, this is where Splinter comes into play.

Ever since the third season, Splinter's role is diminishing to the point of cameos. In the entirety of season 3, his only relevant roles were Return to New York and both Karai episodes; if you want to argue on filler, then one more point because of The Noxious Avenger. Other than that, Splinter doesn't play any significant role in the season before his death. Judging by season 4, it's nearly the same: little to no mentioning and slight cameos at best from Leonardo's point of view. Even though Michelangelo mourns over Splinter's untimely demise in Annihilation: Earth!, we don't see what goes on in Donatello or Raphael's minds, let alone grow as a team. Let's compare this to seasons 1 and 2:

In season 1, Splinter behaved as a strict father at certain intervals; case in point, I Think His Name is Baxter Stockman, Turtle Temper, The Pulverizer Returns! and Panic in the Sewers. Besides the family theme, Splinter also fought the Rat King's manipulation in I, Monster, warned the team during The Gauntlet and finally clashed with Shredder in Showdown. Add in teachings once more and you have Splinter as a strong role: a father with immense wisdom who's not afraid to punish his family. While the family theme declined in season 2, Splinter's role increased.

On the other hand with season 2, Splinter was more involved with the overarching plotlines. Specifically, the Karai arc grew from The Manhattan Project with Karai learning of the bombshell and questioning her faith. This then plays into the role of The Wrath of Tiger Claw, Legend of the Kuro Kabuto Vengeance is Mine, and a brief mention in A Chinatown Ghost Story. Besides the pain of loss prior to the Kraang's invasion, Splinter once more combated the Rat King in Of Rats and Men, gave powerful wisdom in Mutagen Man Unleashed and Slash and Destroy and finally questioned returning to humanity in Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman. To sum up, Splinter went through a lot before The Invasion had Shredder toss him away; that look at the photo is one of the series' beautiful moments due to the music and animation.

When I compare season 3 to the first two seasons, besides the lack of a coherent narrative Splinter's decline in appearances is rather jarring. Tragedies Splinter faces prior to it made me invest because of his tenderness in his "methods" (randori anyone? :P). As a result of the family dynamic not as prominent and instead raising the stakes without a thought out resolution, it hurts my investment in the show's plots. Although I have fun despite that, I do get frustrated of the world building being minimal.

Now I'm getting ahead of myself, but if the Turtles aren't going to grow even with a second chance of saving Splinter, then why should I invest in them or the dilemma? Leo is practically the only Turtle I can feel sympathy for as he wants to right the wrong that occurred. Putting aside Ciro's idea of keeping Splinter dead prior to the story's beginning, if Leo's guilt is the only thing being done, the series isn't doing a good job with character death. I wish it could be like the second season of Arthur personally; might as well explain briefly and wrap it up.

Arthur's second season had Buster Baxter move away with his father, writing him out of the series until Buster's Back and The Ballad of Buster Baxter which together opened season 3. Despite being written out, Baxter did make appearances across season 2; whether a small cameo or helping Arthur in the latter's mindset, they made sure not to forget him. Granted, Arthur doesn't have the biggest main cast animation wise, but rather close to the Nickelodeon TMNT. Why can't the show go for a dialogue mentioning or do what Arthur did with Baxter?

With all that said, reviving Splinter or not isn't going to serve a purpose at all as it'll be back to square one. If using Splinter's death as development isn't happening right now, it's not going to change matters nor will bringing him back. He'll be brought back no matter what happens even if the Triceraton invasion is made moot to change history (hereby contradicting Tale of the Yokai if that happens). I like this Splinter, but either they're reviving him and made this for shock value or will go through with it, hopefully making better use of it compared to now. That's my two cents on the matter once more.

[myconius]

only the creator's know for sure.

all anyone can do for now is just speculate.

and one side or the other gets to say "see? told ya so!"

but the truth is - nobody watching really knows what's going to happen.

[myconius]

i knew there was no way they were going to kill off Splinter in this series.

people seem to forget that this is a kid's cartoon show.

[Vicky82]

i knew there was no way they were going to kill off Splinter in this series.

people seem to forget that this is a kid's cartoon show.

They do kill off characters in kids cartoons though, not just villains either.

[myconius]

They do kill off characters in kids cartoons though, not just villains either.

true, but i just can't see this series killing off such a salable character as Splinter.

heck! even Fugitoid's sacrifice showed that he didn't really die at the very end.

when a series is as built around merchandising as much as this one is, i just can't imagine kids wanting to own and play with a figure of a dead character.

not saying it would never happen, but at this stage i just don't see it happening.