Where does Nickelodeon fail where IDW succeed?

[neatoman]

So with the season 3 finale hitting so close to IDW ending their "planned" story arc with issue 50, I figured this might be a good time bring something up, where does Nickelodeon fail where IDW succeed?

Now you may not agree with that statement and you think Nickelodeon is doing just fine, this is just how I feel personally. In general I have felt that IDW is doing a much better job than Nickelodeon for quite some time now. But now when both reached a sort of partial conclusion, I can't help but feel that IDW isn't just doing a better job, Nickelodeon is laughable compared to them.

The season 3 finale felt kind of empty despite how hard it tried, I watched splinter die in a long death scene followed by the destruction of the planet and I was in complete apathy. Seriously, I didn't care at all while I watching it, maybe it was because I already knew they were going to erase those events with time travel but I don't think it would have worked regardless of my foreknowledge.

I'm not going to spoil what happened in issue 50 in case people here haven't read it but when I read it I cared, I really cared about what was happening and I'm actually interested in what's going to happen from now on. Hell, there's even a similar scenario to something in the finale and it works so much better, I was genuinely moved on an emotional level.

I think a lot of it has to do with that I think IDW has a far more interesting story to follow. Both Tom and Ciro claim to follow some kind of a plan but if that's the case I'm not seeing it with the Nick cartoon. Where as IDW's story is full of mystery, deception, character growth, shocking moments, themes and plot twists, Nickelodeon just seems to vaguely follow a plot while throwing stuff at the wall and not really paying any attention to wheter or not it sticks.

Any other opinions?

[Ninturtle]

So with the season 3 finale hitting so close to IDW ending their "planned" story arc with issue 50, I figured this might be a good time bring something up, where does Nickelodeon fail where IDW succeed?

Now you may not agree with that statement and you think Nickelodeon is doing just fine, this is just how I feel personally. In general I have felt that IDW is doing a much better job than Nickelodeon for quite some time now. But now when both reached a sort of partial conclusion, I can't help but feel that IDW isn't just doing a better job, Nickelodeon is laughable compared to them.

The season 3 finale felt kind of empty despite how hard it tried, I watched splinter die in a long death scene followed by the destruction of the planet and I was in complete apathy. Seriously, I didn't care at all while I watching it, maybe it was because I already knew they were going to erase those events with time travel but I don't think it would have worked regardless of my foreknowledge.

I'm not going to spoil what happened in issue 50 in case people here haven't read it but when I read it I cared, I really cared about what was happening and I'm actually interested in what's going to happen from now on. Hell, there's even a similar scenario to something in the finale and it works so much better, I was genuinely moved on an emotional level.

I think a lot of it has to do with that I think IDW has a far more interesting story to follow. Both Tom and Ciro claim to follow some kind of a plan but if that's the case I'm not seeing it with the Nick cartoon. Where as IDW's story is full of mystery, deception, character growth, shocking moments, themes and plot twists, Nickelodeon just seems to vaguely follow a plot while throwing stuff at the wall and not really paying any attention to wheter or not it sticks.

Any other opinions?

I think the problem is that Nick is geared towards kids and can't do what IDW does. The season 2 finale concerned nick executives because it seemed too adult. I'm sure if Ciro and Brandon had no restriction on what they could do the show would be on par with IDW.

[MikeandRaph87]

I always saw Shredder as a conqueror not just set out to screw Splinter whether he is Hamato Yoshi or Hamato Yoshi's pet rat. That being said Shredder not caring that everyone dies if he and Splinter both do but he gets to be the one to end Splinter does not play into what I see Shredder as. He can very well do that but he needs to preserve the world in order to conquer it. That being said I prefer the ending of IDW's fifth issue over the third season finale. We all know it will pull a DBZ where the whole world is destroyed and most all the character die and then are brought back to life and all is well as they have peace before the net threat. We just have a prolonged space adventure while we wait for that.

Edit: Season 2 finale was too adult? It was simply a reverse ending of season 1. The turtles immediately stopped the Kraang attempted invasion in season 1 while they failed to stop it for a while in the season 2 finale invasion.

[ssjup81]

I think the problem is that Nick is geared towards kids and can't do what IDW does. The season 2 finale concerned nick executives because it seemed too adult. I'm sure if Ciro and Brandon had no restriction on what they could do the show would be on par with IDW.This, for the most part. Comic books have a bit more leeway and fewer restrictions as opposed to media you can view...especially those aimed at kids. They have to be a bit more restrictive, or else it won't get aired at all.

Could you imagine how angry parents would've been if they'd adapted the Judas Contract arc of The New Teen Titans comic faithfully? Way too adult for a show aimed at seven-year-olds.

[Ninturtle]

This, for the most part. Comic books have a bit more leeway and fewer restrictions as opposed to media you can view...especially those aimed at kids. They have to be a bit more restrictive, or else it won't get aired at all.

Could you imagine how angry parents would've been if they'd adapted the Judas Contract arc of The New Teen Titans comic faithfully? Way too adult for a show aimed at seven-year-olds.

I'd love to see Ciro work on a comic , his art style would be perfect for it.

[CyberCubed]

The season 3 finale felt kind of empty despite how hard it tried, I watched splinter die in a long death scene followed by the destruction of the planet and I was in complete apathy. Seriously, I didn't care at all while I watching it, maybe it was because I already knew they were going to erase those events with time travel but I don't think it would have worked regardless of my foreknowledge.


The Season 3 finale was great, the reason you didn't feel much (I didn't either, for the record), is because its for kids. If you were 10 years old you would be losing your mind seeing Splinter stabbed and the entire Earth get destroyed.

We're adults, its obviously not going to have that impact on us.

[TigerClaw]

The fact to the matter is, Nick TMNT is for Kids, while IDW TMNT is for older audiences, the comic goes to dark places that the Nick series will never touch on.

[Luckyday]

For me it's not a matter of being dark but how you handle the dark in the show.

No matter how times they keep saying that nick's tmnt is for kids, there a lot of **** up moments in the show.

The time when Rat king tried his serum on a human test subject and turn him into something out of Silent Hill.

The Mom thing episode, that one scene in the dream beaver's episode, and recently we saw Donatello being realistically in pain and tortured in an electric chair.

And yet for some reason, they don't have the balls to write the complexity of morality and realism of their special brand of "dark".

This is just more ranting so feel free to skip the redundant complaining.
To prove my point, Korra and Leo went through a very similar ordeal but one went through a believable portrayal of PTSD, even with being fully rehabilitated and could even walk again, and other was just bum out that his leg was broken.

I'm sorry but not sorry, the writers really need to stop trying to shock their audience to a point of being desensitized, which I think is starting to happen recently, and actually invest in their characters and the **** that been eating at them internally, but nope it's pretty much them reacting to whatever shocking thing is on screen and being swept under the rug for god knows how long.

But this show wants to be a junk food action movie inspired show with a slight horror genre edge and you know what? That's fine! Everybody loves a good action and it's clearly the inspiration/driving force of this show, but for the love of god stop using "it's for kid's" excuse when there are other shows disproving that statement everyday. Just stop.

Now instead of them pretending to say at every comic-con that they are really going to get inside the characters' heads and blah blah blah of empty promises..they should fully embrace their crazy and go buckwild with tmnt's lore. I mean let's be honest, we don't see any of the characters as real people unless it from childhood nostalgia. At the most, I am only as invested them as much as caring about a character in a horror movie or the video game Until Dawn. So I am guessing that they, Ciro and the others, have only fully started to realized this way back in season 2, which is why they have started to put a bigger emphasis on showcasing new characters and only mention the turtles when they're going to do some really awesome and cool stuff.

And again, this show is fantastic if you want to see your favorite character looking really cool and badass; however, if you are expecting to understand more about your favorite character and in an way that makes him/her feel even closer to you, or see him/her dealing with personal character conflicts. Maybe even coming out of them growing stronger as a individual with a new perspective on certain things then HOLY **** ****ING **** DO NOT WATCH THIS SHOW.

[Cryomancer]

IDW doesn't need to sell toys.

[Tarris Vaal]

I think time plays a big factor. IDW can afford to have slow episodes with little action and more focus on character studies. Nick needs to be punchier and more action orientated because of its format as a tv show. It needs to keep the attention of its chosen demographic and needs action to do it.
This then has the negative effect of compressing any character development down to either a side effect of action sequences or to be lost to the shows faster pace.
IDW certainly can do action, but unlike Nick it has an easier option to slow things down and take more care when it needs to. Nick can't do that to the same degree, so things seem rushed, or forgotten, and its safer for them to fall back on basic character traits and tropes - Like Raph's temper or Mikey's clumsiness

[Shiro Kame]

The problem for me was the lack of build up towards the finale.

The first 7 episodes were the turtles' stay in NY that didn't really seem to go anywhere.

Episodes 8-13 were the turtles preparing to and finally expelling the Kraang from NY (which felt too compressed and too easy with the charcters being too much of idiots to think that their plan would work in the long-run).

Episodes 14-23 (with the exception of episodes 19-20) focused on Karai being mindcontrolled under Shredder, where she only appeared in at least two of those episodes in a major role with the rest being attempting to cure her or stop Shredder from getting the chemicals (which was pointless in the end), making this arc's potential feel wasted.

Episodes 19-20 were the time-travelling arc for the turtles. While it was amazing we finally got to see Shredder, Tang Shen, Karai, and Splinter's origins to see how everything went down, I felt that this could have been shelved for a later season since "Turtles in Time" felt like nothing more than to introduce a love interest for Mikey and to give the turtles a reason to be in Splinter's past. While that was one of my more favorite episodes, I felt this could have been shelved for later since these episodes sacrificed time that could have been used to help resolute the Serpent Karai arc and thus would have helped in building up the finale.

The last 3 episodes has the Triceratons invading NY and wiping out the Earth. It chooses the very last episode before the finale to finally decide to bring the Kraang back and introduce the Triceratons. After that in the last two episodes, the earth is destroyed by a blackhole with everyone that the turtles, Casey, and April knew being killed. With how lightly the situation is dealt with in the aftermath, I feel no real emotion afterwards other than rage at Splinter's death. Considering that the planet got destroyed, we all know that it will get fixed later and Splinter will be alive again. With these 3 episodes being so rushed, it's hard to get a real feel for how dire the situation is, especially with how crammed Season 3 feels.

Due to how many arcs were in this season, it went too fast without any real time to feel anything for the finale since there was a crapload of them in this one (the Kraang being defeated and NY being taken back; Karai being freed from the brainworm; and the Triceratons destroying Earth). As a result, it doesn't feel nearly as special and exciting as the first two seasons' finales. That's why you shouldn't do story arcs like that in the first place. You end up wrapping things up before the viewers are able to feel how dire everything is and how much effort that the protagonists placed into their plans and efforts before they either succeed or fail. This finale failed to do that due to the lack of proper build up. Hopefully, Season 4 will do better, and considering little gems like Tale of the Yokai, I will definitely keep watching no matter what crap they throw (Take Back New York, I'm looking at you!). But, I'm not keeping my fingers crossed too tightly for the new season's finale.

[shredder orokusaki]

This, for the most part. Comic books have a bit more leeway and fewer restrictions as opposed to media you can view...especially those aimed at kids. They have to be a bit more restrictive, or else it won't get aired at all.

Could you imagine how angry parents would've been if they'd adapted the Judas Contract arc of The New Teen Titans comic faithfully? Way too adult for a show aimed at seven-year-olds.

That why selling TMNT to Nickelodeon was a mistake. But as we see from season 3 something changed in Nickelodeon. The more sierous 2003 show didnt have me killing Splinter . It happend for the first time in Nickelodeon cartoon. Since they allowed that it means they finaly understood that they must stop putting restrrictions to developers because today kids are mature enough and they are not scared by too much violence.

[Ninturtle]

For me it's not a matter of being dark but how you handle the dark in the show.

No matter how times they keep saying that nick's tmnt is for kids, there a lot of **** up moments in the show.

The time when Rat king tried his serum on a human test subject and turn him into something out of Silent Hill.

The Mom thing episode, that one scene in the dream beaver's episode, and recently we saw Donatello being realistically in pain and tortured in an electric chair.

And yet for some reason, they don't have the balls to write the complexity of morality and realism of their special brand of "dark".

This is just more ranting so feel free to skip the redundant complaining.
To prove my point, Korra and Leo went through a very similar ordeal but one went through a believable portrayal of PTSD, even with being fully rehabilitated and could even walk again, and other was just bum out that his leg was broken.

I'm sorry but not sorry, the writers really need to stop trying to shock their audience to a point of being desensitized, which I think is starting to happen recently, and actually invest in their characters and the **** that been eating at them internally, but nope it's pretty much them reacting to whatever shocking thing is on screen and being swept under the rug for god knows how long.

But this show wants to be a junk food action movie inspired show with a slight horror genre edge and you know what? That's fine! Everybody loves a good action and it's clearly the inspiration/driving force of this show, but for the love of god stop using "it's for kid's" excuse when there are other shows disproving that statement everyday. Just stop.

Now instead of them pretending to say at every comic-con that they are really going to get inside the characters' heads and blah blah blah of empty promises..they should fully embrace their crazy and go buckwild with tmnt's lore. I mean let's be honest, we don't see any of the characters as real people unless it from childhood nostalgia. At the most, I am only as invested them as much as caring about a character in a horror movie or the video game Until Dawn. So I am guessing that they, Ciro and the others, have only fully started to realized this way back in season 2, which is why they have started to put a bigger emphasis on showcasing new characters and only mention the turtles when they're going to do some really awesome and cool stuff.

And again, this show is fantastic if you want to see your favorite character looking really cool and badass; however, if you are expecting to understand more about your favorite character and in an way that makes him/her feel even closer to you, or see him/her dealing with personal character conflicts. Maybe even coming out of them growing stronger as a individual with a new perspective on certain things then HOLY **** ****ING **** DO NOT WATCH THIS SHOW.
This show is aimed at kids amd kids really don't care about charecter development, while the Nick show has a lot of elements for adults it's main audience is kids. Korra is ained at a more mature audience so it can show a lot more charecter development and realistic chareters like IDW can.

[GoldMutant]

I think in general, where Nick truly lacks is building it's stories and instead substituting it for shock value. There is nothing I despise more than trying to get more people invested because of trying to be edgy and cool at one part then throwing it away the next time. It is possible to have a mixture of progression in story while being characterized, I mean you got the DC animated universe, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avatar, etc. etc.

I have brought this up several times, but use Spectacular Spider-Man as an example. Yes, you can pretty much join in at any time and get right into the story, but everything connects like a puzzle piece to the overall story arc. The Nick TMNT fails tremendously because of it, as it tries to compact too much material at once, rushing the entirety of an arc. Think of Karai as the definitive example, as it feels prolonged and after a while it gets angering; no matter how long a viewer waits, they will get sick of the repetitive nature and leave, causing a decline in viewership.

Though I can't say anything from the comics other than reading the comments about them, they take time to build up the events that transpire. By being well-written, you increase investment and lead to a greater payoff. It's bloody awesome the more you think of it, whether it be a show or comic. Investment is key to everything.

Judging by how Nick handles everything, it waters down the significance of it's tragedies, especially the death of Splinter and Karai's arc. I honestly don't care for Splinter's death compared to my first view because I can predict what can happen and it ruins it. On the other hand, comics go through with different curve balls to throw us for a loop, it gets our excitement pumping. Ultimately, it's Nickelodeon's handling that makes it falter as it's crippling weakness.

[Luckyday]

This show is aimed at kids amd kids really don't care about charecter development, while the Nick show has a lot of elements for adults it's main audience is kids. Korra is ained at a more mature audience so it can show a lot more charecter development and realistic chareters like IDW can.

Character development is part of continuity, and if a show has a lot continuity, kids will watch it religiously. Do they really need or even want it in the first place? Admittedly no but once it's there, it can turn them into tv addicts that can suffer the withdrawal symptoms of someone that did cocaine if they miss so much as one single episode.

The reason why is because continuity stimulates the brain while watching something that hardly ever change relaxes it and thus making it comfort food in a sense. So in order to have that same mental stimulation without putting as much effort in development is to focus on the shock value. Putting something that will scare or anything that will ruse attention and then resolve it quickly or go on to the next big thing. This strategy will work for kids, and it has also works for cheesy soap operas and pro wrestle. However, once you have started to become jaded, it just puts enormous amounts of pressure on the writers to "go big or go home" which is exactly what all of the previous seasonal finales has been like in this show. Bigger, badder, and even more shocking then the last.

[Ninturtle]

Character development is part of continuity, and if a show has a lot continuity, kids will watch it religiously. Do they really need or even want it in the first place? Admittedly no but once it's there, it can turn them into tv addicts that can suffer the withdrawal symptoms of someone that did cocaine if they miss so much as one single episode.

The reason why is because continuity stimulates the brain while watching something that hardly ever change relaxes it and thus making it comfort food in a sense. So in order to have that same mental stimulation without putting as much effort in development is to focus on the shock value. Putting something that will scare or anything that will ruse attention and then resolve it quickly or go on to the next big thing. This strategy will work for kids, and it has also works for cheesy soap operas and pro wrestle. However, once you have started to become jaded, it just puts enormous amounts of pressure on the writers to "go big or go home" which is exactly what all of the previous seasonal finales has been like in this show. Bigger, badder, and even more shocking then the last.
As a kid I didn't really notice Leos charecter development in 2k3 , I just wanted to see the turtles kick donkey and go on cool adventures and that's all I noticed.As a kid this show wouldbe perfect so it's doing its job and I can't really complain because it's drawing me in and I'm hardly a kid (16 ).

[Luckyday]

As a kid I didn't really notice Leos charecter development in 2k3 , I just wanted to see the turtles kick donkey and go on cool adventures and that's all I noticed.As a kid this show wouldbe perfect so it's doing its job and I can't really complain because it's drawing me in and I'm hardly a kid (16 ).

If you are still enjoy same type of show that you watch as a kid then it shows that it has nothing to with age but more depending on personality and personal interest and that's fine.

As a kid, I remember how excited I was for the first pokemon movie because it was going to show Mewtwo, which was something of a mysterious pokemon from the tv show series. I think I even went online to know more about him from all of the theories that were created on blogs and stuff. I was a weird kid. Still am since I'm here but not every show has to have layers. Some are just better off with a straight forward type of writing like Be Cool, Scooby Doo that let's you just roll with the punches and I think nick's TMNT might one of those shows. It can still be interesting by having some neat ideas that are just strong enough for one episode like "Eyes of the Chimera" and I honestly think that they're better off with a very flexible story line that doesn't hold them down on them trying to do new things. I just wish that they would stop trying to shock us if it's not going to change the status quo of its characters but that may come with a price with trying to have no restraints in possibilities even with Standard and Practices looking over their shoulder and the FCC breathing down their neck.

[The Happy One]

Honestly, I feel that having each one is like the best of both worlds, in a sense. We have IDW that has no problem taking our hearts and stomping on them. They also have amazing story-telling where each character grows and develops. We get to see their inner demons, sort to speak. It's fantastic, really. And on the show you have beautiful animation, great voice actors that bring these guys to life. The shock factor is higher than the storytelling, however. But, still, they tend to blow our minds, make us laugh and cry and become so emotionally involved in what many call 'a kid's show'. Not too, too many cartoons do that these days- especially on Nick. So I'm kinda gratefull for both, y'know? While sometimes I wish the show went down darker roads more often, I respect their boundaries and- I can speak for a lot of us- appreciate how far they push those boundaries just to make us a little more than satisfied. And while IDW has its flaws (Ahem...like, did anyone really mention Professor Miller? Or is anybody gonna notice Casey's subtle decline? Is Don just magically healed with no aftereffects?), I understand that not everything can be perfect. So...I'm fine with both I guess. But I can see where each lacks certain things...all we do is give our opinions and hope the guys back at the studious are listening, I suppose.

[Meliwen]

I don't need the nick series necessarily to become any darker. Just like with what Transformers is doing, it's nice to have things for all ages to enjoy. It just needs to be treated well. Making something darker or giving it the option for no holds barred storytelling doesn't automatically make it a better story.

The nick series can be considered just as good in terms of overall quality as the comics without going darker, if they handled its characters better. If you're willing to go dark in some areas, like gore, shock, death, high risks, etc, then there's no reason to not also put the same amount of effort into the characters and their emotional development. Giving a character an arc and proper responses to the events around them won't make the show any darker than all the death and shock factor you've already included, and it certainly won't drive the kids away in droves just because the turtles are sad their father is missing/presumed dead. Perhaps some won't care, but some will and there'll be some who can even relate.

'It's a kids show' doesn't fly anymore as a reason to keep your characters simple or static. It feels like it's the norm nowadays for shows aimed at kids that have an overarching plot to also do very well in terms of their characters. Stand alone episodic formats with silly fun is fine for a show, and it's great to have some like that, but when you want to try something more and attempt to create a real, solid, epic story, then you need to make sure the whole show can stand up to that level. So many shows and movies for kids do this, so when you only go halfway people notice.

There's a reason that if people are listing great shows that they'll list Steven Universe and Gravity Falls, but next to no one will add in TMNT. I think TMNT is a good show, it just doesn't quite reach the level other children's shows have set.

[Etsyturtle2]

I don't need the nick series necessarily to become any darker. Just like with what Transformers is doing, it's nice to have things for all ages to enjoy. It just needs to be treated well. Making something darker or giving it the option for no holds barred storytelling doesn't automatically make it a better story.

The nick series can be considered just as good in terms of overall quality as the comics without going darker, if they handled its characters better. If you're willing to go dark in some areas, like gore, shock, death, high risks, etc, then there's no reason to not also put the same amount of effort into the characters and their emotional development. Giving a character an arc and proper responses to the events around them won't make the show any darker than all the death and shock factor you've already included, and it certainly won't drive the kids away in droves just because the turtles are sad their father is missing/presumed dead. Perhaps some won't care, but some will and there'll be some who can even relate.

'It's a kids show' doesn't fly anymore as a reason to keep your characters simple or static. It feels like it's the norm nowadays for shows aimed at kids that have an overarching plot to also do very well in terms of their characters. Stand alone episodic formats with silly fun is fine for a show, and it's great to have some like that, but when you want to try something more and attempt to create a real, solid, epic story, then you need to make sure the whole show can stand up to that level. So many shows and movies for kids do this, so when you only go halfway people notice.

There's a reason that if people are listing great shows that they'll list Steven Universe and Gravity Falls, but next to no one will add in TMNT. I think TMNT is a good show, it just doesn't quite reach the level other children's shows have set.
I can't stand what most kids are watching right now. Some if it is just plain stupid and retarded.

[The Happy One]

Yeah. It's butts, farts and mustaches.

Backin my day, we enjoyed some good ol Hey Arnold or Recess :lol:

[Etsyturtle2]

Yeah. It's butts, farts and mustaches.

Backin my day, we enjoyed some good ol Hey Arnold or Recess :lol:

In my day it was tmnt 2003:D

[aliena]

For me it's the lack of genuine emotion that the Nick show cannot seem to do anymore. I guess it will scare the kids. I still remember watching Slash terrorize the characters and actually getting emotional, so emotional that I can barely watch that episode now. Leo and Raph disagreeing over Karai while Don and Mikey are in the dark. Raph about to really lose it and Mikey calming him down. Where has that gone?

With IDW it can be raw emotions and genuine fear at any time. There are far too many moments to list, but what stands out is Dark Leo, Leo and Donnie fighting a lot and Mikey's more somber and deep thinking moments including what he just displayed in #50. Also their interactions with their mother for both Leo and Don was really moving to me.

[Technogeek29]

That why selling TMNT to Nickelodeon was a mistake. But as we see from season 3 something changed in Nickelodeon. The more sierous 2003 show didnt have me killing Splinter . It happend for the first time in Nickelodeon cartoon. Since they allowed that it means they finaly understood that they must stop putting restrrictions to developers because today kids are mature enough and they are not scared by too much violence.

What are you talking about you killed him and Casey in SAINW and Hun & Stockman.

[Autbot_Benz]

What are you talking about you killed him and Casey in SAINW and Hun & Stockman.

don't waste your breath with shredderorokusaki he thinks he is the real shredder. he needs to see the men in white coats

[Etsyturtle2]

don't waste your breath with shredderorokusaki he thinks he is the real shredder. he needs to see the men in white coats
He knows obviously, he's jokingly saying that shredder orokusaki is the shredder by talking to him as if he is shredder.