Thoughts on Pete's Status/Hiatus

[Redrumh2o]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on Pete's statue. He has not posted to his blog since May, minimal posts on FB, and the Mirage website has not been updated since August. I got the feeling at his last Shellback appearance that it could be his last....at least for a while. He doesn't owe is fans anything, and I understand if he is tires of all the questions and stuff.....but I liked his blogs about nature/pottery and what not. I got quite excited to see his few collaborations with Kevin over the last year or so....was hoping that would continue every now and then...

Any thoughts?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think if you're in the public eye and you start a story, you owe it to your audience to finish that story one way or another. If not by doing it yourself, by entrusting the conclusion of that story to a partner or a successor.

The only way we TMNT fans will ever get a satisfactory conclusion to Volume 4 is if Andrew rousts another team to get it done, just like he did with Volume 3 and Odyssey.

[MikeandRaph87]

I call it fan fiction though and not official. I would collaborate with anyone to help complete TMNT Adventures, "Forever War" teased to us back in 2009. Still it would feel like fan fiction unless it was the creative team that intended it. I agree that Peter Laird owes us. He started volume four and should finish his product. He knows how it is going to go. Why not just put it to script and hand it over to Jim, if not let Jim fill in any plot pieces still needed? I doubt it would be too much time and trouble for him.

[CyberCubed]

He said he got bored of blogging in a reply on his last "Ask PL" post a couple of months ago. He's obviously not doing anything TMNT related so he has nothing to say on that front.

Also isn't PL 60 years old now? When he started Volume 4 he was like 45...so he was much younger.

[Gunstar_Red]

Sorry. No creator owes anybody, even fans, anything. If you force someone to do something they don't want to do, 9 times out of 10 you'll get something nothing near their best work.

It sucks, I know, but people get bored doing/writing/drawing the same thing, especially for many years. Have some consideration.

.but I liked his blogs about nature/pottery and what not.

I do miss this though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sorry. No creator owes anybody, even fans, anything. If you force someone to do something they don't want to do, 9 times out of 10 you'll get something nothing near their best work.

It sucks, I know, but people get bored doing/writing/drawing the same thing, especially for many years. Have some consideration.



I do miss this though.

Different POVs, mate. As a creator myself, I absolutely think that if I leave anything unfinished, I owe it to my audience to give them as much as an ending as I can reasonably provide.

Whether that's posting my outlines for the rest of the series and saying "What might have been" or passing the torch to a trusted collaborator, it doesn't take much effort to finish a story even if you yourself burn out.

I've seen far too many series do this to sit back anymore and say "well, they don't owe us anything."

[Toitlefan]

I call it fan fiction though and not official. I would collaborate with anyone to help complete TMNT Adventures, "Forever War" teased to us back in 2009. Still it would feel like fan fiction unless it was the creative team that intended it. I agree that Peter Laird owes us. He started volume four and should finish his product. He knows how it is going to go. Why not just put it to script and hand it over to Jim, if not let Jim fill in any plot pieces still needed? I doubt it would be too much time and trouble for him.

I talked to Jim at length this year at Boston Con and discussed the continuation of Vol 4. Jim is itching to keep the book going but he said it was not up to him (which makes sense) and if Peter gave the go-ahead he would be all over it. This was only a casual conversation but he sounded enthusiastic. We can only hope.

[CyberCubed]

Well of course Jim would want to do it so he can get paid. Common sense.

[MikeandRaph87]

Well of course Jim would want to do it so he can get paid. Common sense.

Not everyone does things for money. He has compassion for what he worked on a good part of his life. Volume 4 is his baby too being the artist.

I told you CKDohmy, we have more in common than you think.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not everyone does things for money. He has compassion for what he worked on a good part of his life. Volume 4 is his baby too being the artist.

I told you CKDohmy, we have more in common than you think.

Other than our differences on favorite Robin/Batgirl, thoughts of Flash, and opinion of FW TMNT, I think we see pretty much eye-to-eye on everything else. :tlol:

Take for example George RR Martin. The ONLY reason that homeboy is off the hook is because HBO will go on without his slow ass. I'm hoping to pay my kids' college tuition with the money I'll win on my wager with a few friends that GRRM dies before ever writing the last book. :tlol:

[freakdylan]

I call it fan fiction though and not official. I would collaborate with anyone to help complete TMNT Adventures, "Forever War" teased to us back in 2009. Still it would feel like fan fiction unless it was the creative team that intended it. I agree that Peter Laird owes us. He started volume four and should finish his product. He knows how it is going to go. Why not just put it to script and hand it over to Jim, if not let Jim fill in any plot pieces still needed? I doubt it would be too much time and trouble for him.

I agree 100%
Either finish or let someone else!

[Powder]

Well of course Jim would want to do it so he can get paid. Common sense.

Show some God damn respect.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Show some God damn respect.

Thank you for saying that, Powder.

I'm sure Jim Lawson rakes in a million for every issue he draws. :trolleye:

[MikeandRaph87]

I think Cubed pulled his head out of the rabbit hole he keeps it in to understand. I guess when Peter made the promise it was not realized 'eventually' would be over six years. I guess even Peter did even consider that with the promise. The longer away fron something the easier it is to not get back into it. I hope he has a moment of clarity that a dew hours of editing and nktes and oassing itvto Jim is all it takes. If Jim could ask him peivately himself maybe....

At least there is a transcript for how it ends unlike Forever War. I would love to get my hands on it.

[myconius]

i doubt it'll happen buy it would be awesome if Peter Laird gave Jim Lawson his ok to continue and finish Vol. 4.

even though it was rushed at least vol. 2 had a proper conclusion!



At least there is a transcript for how it ends unlike Forever War. I would love to get my hands on it.

seriously! there really is?

[Leo656]

I honestly care more about one day finally getting Forever War than ever seeing the end of Vol. 4, to be blunt. :lol: No matter how the last few issues of Vol. 4 went... you still have the first three dozen. Ain't no fixin' that mess. :lol:

As for Laird himself, guy's burnt out. Probably enjoying some much-needed quiet time, the most he's had in decades. Bless him. I'm not a huge fan of his work but the guy's earned a break.

[MikeandRaph87]

i doubt it'll happen buy it would be awesome if Peter Laird gave Jim Lawson his ok to continue and finish Vol. 4.

even though it was rushed at least vol. 2 had a proper conclusion!




seriously! there really is?

I prefer to see TMNTA completed and see how it was supposed to go. Shredder a totalitarian dictator and Armaggon among other guest like the Scumbug and Katmandu. Laird mentions he has a rought draft and notes on how issues 33-35 were to go to wrap it all up. It somewhere on his TMNT Blog. He said he may post it at some point.

[Toitlefan]

Well of course Jim would want to do it so he can get paid. Common sense.

I'm going to assume this was meant as sarcasm.

I'm not going to say I know how the profit structure works but let's say for ***** and giggles they continue producing/selling a supposed 1000 copies per issue. Even at $10 a pop that's a total of $10,000. Now being very generous and assuming Peter gives Jim 50%, that's $5000. After costs of materials, printing and payouts to others that helped work on the book, I'm sure it's well below $5000. Factor in how many hours Jim put into each book and I'm sure what he made per hour is minimal. I highly doubt he's in it for the money.

As much as I'd like to see Peter finish the story I think I'd rather see him hand it off to someone else. I have stipulations though...keep the same format (b&w and length of issue), keep the releases to 1 or 2 a year and change up the course of the story-line, it could use a fresh pair of eyes. And even though Jim isn't my favorite artist he should continue penciling. It just wouldn't feel right if someone else took over as artist.

[CyberCubed]

Didn't Jim Lawson get paid a certain salary no matter what Volume 4 sold like? PL said Volume 4 never turned a profit (at least the pre-$10 an issue copies), so its not like that made a difference.

Jim wasn't working for free obviously. PL paid him a salary even when Volume 4 sold at a loss.

[Andrew NDB]

I agree that Peter Laird owes us.

He doesn't owe us a damn thing.

[Leo656]

He doesn't owe us a damn thing.

I for one would like a slice of pie. I don't think that's too much to ask.

F*ck it, if I ever meet Peter Laird, I'm gonna insist he treat me to a slice of pie. Blueberry, cherry, apple, or pumpkin are acceptable, in that order. It's the least he could do. I've paid for several slices of his pie. If he fights me on it, he's a dick.

[Powder]

Peter Laird owes us

Considering how you used to hound/badger him about TMNT (the Fred Wolf series in particular) on so many of his unrelated blog posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you incentivized his departure. If any thing, you owe him -- an apology. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

It's like... would we even be sitting here arguing about him owing "us" or not if he didn't create the TMNT? No, we wouldn't. He owes us nothing and never has. He did Vol. 4 for him, as he should. And 90% of the fandom didn't appreciate it and I can absolutely understand how that'd be disheartening to him.

This is a little more divisive but it's the same thing with people b*tching about George Lucas. Yes, you enjoyed those old movies as kids and you don't agree with everything he "changed" in the special editions. And maybe the prequels weren't the particular fanfiction you wrote in your mind in the 20 years in between you seeing 4-6 and 1-3. Maybe they're not even particularly great movies (my daughter would argue... she loved 1-3 and can barely choke her way through 4). Despite what you may want to argue or how many EU novels you read the whole shebang did not somehow transcend into modern legend and become public domain ("Star Wars is ours too!" shut up, it's not)... this was his property and he did what he felt was proper. According to him. Because it's his. It's not yours. Or mine. And now since Disney rejected the contractually obligated story treatments for 7-9, there's every indication we're just going to get some kind of fanfictionalized recreation of the OT, complete with Notooine and Death Stars and Millennium Falcon vs. TIE Fighters. Enjoy.

[Leo656]

See, rather than ask George Lucas for the pie, I would treat George to the pie. I feel he's rather earned it and I feel kind of bad for him.

I mean, the worst he gave us was Jar-Jar. He didn't have Leia go back in time and f*ck a cockroach or any dumb sh*t like that. So it's not like he's a MONSTER. ;)

[Andrew NDB]

I mean, the worst he gave us was Jar-Jar.

And then overreacted to fan reaction and cut him way back in 2 and 3. Maybe that was always the intention but I doubt it.

[CyberCubed]

The thing is Volume 4 would have ended around 2008-2009, its only Peter Laird working on the 4th movie at the time which caused his original "hiatus" around 2007 or so.

Can you guys imagine if he didn't have anything to do with the 4th movie, that we would have gotten 6-12 more issues of Volume 4 around 2007-2008? We likely would have been done with the series.

[Leo656]

Jar Jar was the Secret Sith all along. Pass it on.

[Andrew NDB]

The thing is Volume 4 would have ended around 2008-2009, its only Peter Laird working on the 4th movie at the time which caused his original "hiatus" around 2007 or so.

Can you guys imagine if he didn't have anything to do with the 4th movie, that we would have gotten 6-12 more issues of Volume 4 around 2007-2008? We likely would have been done with the series.

Personally I'd easily take that over the 4th movie.

[pennydreadful]

See, rather than ask George Lucas for the pie, I would treat George to the pie. I feel he's rather earned it and I feel kind of bad for him.

I mean, the worst he gave us was Jar-Jar. He didn't have Leia go back in time and f*ck a cockroach or any dumb sh*t like that. So it's not like he's a MONSTER. ;)

Lucas probably already has plenty of pie - he's just hiding it in his neckfolds.

[Leo656]

Me-OW. Vicious.

[pennydreadful]

My mouth may yet bring me much trouble. :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

Personally I'd easily take that over the 4th movie.

I think what's also strange is what took up all of PL's time with the 4th movie in the first place? The entire story was Kevin Munroe's idea, all Pete did was veto some designs for the Turtles and tell them what they could or couldn't do, but overall it wasn't even his thing.

I have no idea why he couldn't work on Volume 4 at the same time. Volume 4 went on like a 5 year hiatus at the time.

[myconius]

Peter Laird must have been doing a LOT of vetoing on that 4th film?????

it's really a shame! the 4th TMNT movie for me was such a letdown! and i'm sure so many fans are itching to see the conclusion to what volume 4 would have been?

at least we saw Raph transform back to normal, and found out that it really was Splinter in the Battle Nexus. that the Splinter who died wasn't actually him.

i know this is old news, but i also know many people haven't had the chance to read the harder to find issues.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Really, 3 issues could totally wrap the story.

Bring Mikey back and clear up his rage issues and the Regenta question
Restore Donnie
Clear up the Battle Nexus thing with Leo and "Splinter"
Reunite the Jones family

Only problem is, it's next to impossible to predict what is going on with Mikey, Splinter, and Leo. Sigh... so without some sort of official word from Laird, it's just a book missing the last chapter. Where's the damn climax!?

[plastroncafe]

Personally I'd easily take that over the 4th movie.

I can't possibly recoil in horror at the thought of that fast enough.

[Andrew NDB]

Peter Laird must have been doing a LOT of vetoing on that 4th film?????

Quite a lot on the merchandising side alone. And that's just one incarnation of it, not saying anything about the previous 15 or so (considerably more horrid) incarnations of the 4th movie he was actively shooting down.

it's really a shame! the 4th TMNT movie for me was such a letdown! and i'm sure so many fans are itching to see the conclusion to what volume 4 would have been?

There's reason enough to suspect we'll get it eventually.

[CyberCubed]

Really, 3 issues could totally wrap the story.
Bring Mikey back and clear up his rage issues and the Regenta question
Restore Donnie
Clear up the Battle Nexus thing with Leo and "Splinter"
Reunite the Jones family
?

There's a lot more going on then that:

- Mike's story of killing Styracodons needs to be addressed (he's turning into a murderer), as well as confronting the Regenta and finding out if those eggs really are his kids or not.

- Don returning to normal size will probably happen soon especially since his robot body was destroyed, there's no need for him to be small anymore. I bet it'll just reverse quickly like Raph did.

- Leonardo still needs to meet Splinter in the Battle Nexus, compete in the Battle Nexus tournament (remember they set up the tournament), and then confront those Warriors who were killing Foot Soldiers because of something Karai did.

- Karai is acting strangely, perhaps she is an alternate Karai from the Battle Nexus rather than the real one, and see how April and Casey interact when they meet again.


There are also some other minor odds and ends, like a few panels that showed a whole bunch of people disappearing from a street corner without a trace, etc.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There's a lot more going on then that:

- Mike's story of killing Styracodons needs to be addressed (he's turning into a murderer), as well as confronting the Regenta and finding out if those eggs really are his kids or not.

- Don returning to normal size will probably happen soon especially since his robot body was destroyed, there's no need for him to be small anymore. I bet it'll just reverse quickly like Raph did.

- Leonardo still needs to meet Splinter in the Battle Nexus, compete in the Battle Nexus tournament (remember they set up the tournament), and then confront those Warriors who were killing Foot Soldiers because of something Karai did.

- Karai is acting strangely, perhaps she is an alternate Karai from the Battle Nexus rather than the real one, and see how April and Casey interact when they meet again.


There are also some other minor odds and ends, like a few panels that showed a whole bunch of people disappearing from a street corner without a trace, etc.

Cubed, my man, you listed the exact same bullet points that I did, except in more detail.

Hence my statement that three issues are needed, because each bullet point does carry a bit of meat to it.

[myconius]

as much as i hate to say it but i think this is as much of a conclusion to volume 4 as we are going to get-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OPI8ZL8XDLE/Vkd-is0fWeI/AAAAAAAAQr0/3F7ahNf6aZg/s1600/32-7.jpg

if by some chance Peter Laird gives Jim Lawson the OK to actually finish the story then great.
but i'm not going to hold my breath over that.

(personally i think Casey is at the bottom of the hill there with April)

[Andrew NDB]

as much as i hate to say it but i think this is as much of a conclusion to volume 4 as we are going to get-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OPI8ZL8XDLE/Vkd-is0fWeI/AAAAAAAAQr0/3F7ahNf6aZg/s1600/32-7.jpg

if by some chance Peter Laird gives Jim Lawson the OK to actually finish the story then great.
but i'm not going to hold my breath over that.

(personally i think Casey is at the bottom of the hill there with April)

I don't see Peter ending it on such a happy note as that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't see Peter ending it on such a happy note as that.

How do you think it would end? Or does that tread too far into spoiler territory (whether for Odyssey or a future Volume 4 conclusion)?

[Powder]

all Pete did was veto some designs for the Turtles

I wanna see those, are they out there?

not saying anything about the previous 15 or so (considerably more horrid) incarnations of the 4th movie he was actively shooting down.

Same for this, any insight? Would love to hear about 'em.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Considering how much he has done for TMNT, and everything he's given us fans, Mr. Laird has earned his rest. With the awesomeness of IDW (my favvorite version of TMNT of all time) and the Nick series going strong, the turtles are in good hands for the moment. He owes us nothing, and Peter can relax and stay far away from TMNT for as long as he chooses to do so.

[CyberCubed]

Considering how much he has done for TMNT, and everything he's given us fans, Mr. Laird has earned his rest. With the awesomeness of IDW (my favvorite version of TMNT of all time) and the Nick series going strong, the turtles are in good hands for the moment. He owes us nothing, and Peter can relax and stay far away from TMNT for as long as he chooses to do so.

Well the point is he's also 60 years old now. I doubt he's going to bother writing comics when he's 70, so if he doesn't return to Volume 4 in the next 5 or so years then he never will.

[freakdylan]

Well the point is he's also 60 years old now. I doubt he's going to bother writing comics when he's 70, so if he doesn't return to Volume 4 in the next 5 or so years then he never will.


Oh never say never he could lose all his money on Fanduel and be forced to return simply for the money.

[myconius]

Oh never say never he could lose all his money on Fanduel and be forced to return simply for the money.

you make a valid point there.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Well the point is he's also 60 years old now. I doubt he's going to bother writing comics when he's 70, so if he doesn't return to Volume 4 in the next 5 or so years then he never will.

If he's doesn't ever want to come back, that's his business. He and Eastman gave us turtles, and that's good enough for me! :)

[freakdylan]

you make a valid point there.

Wouldnt be the first time an artist returned simply for the need for money.

Oh and Hey, lol

[myconius]

Wouldnt be the first time an artist returned simply for the need for money.

Oh and Hey, lol

i didn't know you were on here??? :D
small world! :lol:

i really wish Peter the Best in his retirement. i'm sure all of the hustling and bustling he's done keeping the franchise going before he sold it has severly burned him out!!

but it would be awesome if one day he felt a surge of inspiration to just crank out just a few more issues to quickly wrap it up the way that volume 2 quickly came to a conclusion.

or gave the blessing to Jim Lawson to tie up the loose ends? :)

[Andrew NDB]

How do you think it would end? Or does that tread too far into spoiler territory (whether for Odyssey or a future Volume 4 conclusion)?

Like I said, I don't think it'd end too happily. Mikey maybe in self-imposed exile somewhere in space or just drifting (and no, I don't think those eggs are his kids, and I think that revelation coupled with the bloodshed he's partaken in will drive him into such), Don finally moving to Japan to live in isolation there with his "Chet" computer AI as seen in Plastron Cafe. Leonardo moving to his treehouse. Raphael hitting the bayou. I want to say I think the Splinter in the Battle Nexus is either lying or not entirely what he appears (I think the fur Donatello clipped from Dead Splinter will be cross-analyzed against some older Splinter DNA and it will match, or something, cementing that Real Splinter actually did die)... and may have to be killed by one of the Turtles (the future glimpse now finally being wholly realized from TMNT Vol. 2, #1). That could also be what spurs the more permanent separation of the Turtles... that they have to kill Splinter (maybe one or more of them didn't believe Donatello or whoever ends up killing him, that they thought it was the real deal or was better than No Splinter At All, who knows). There's nothing in the future glimpses of the Turtles that suggests any kind of Splinter sticks around much more into the future than this. And another poster might be right about the Karai in their world might actually be the Battle Nexus Karai... but then that begs the question of where the real Karai is. Maybe this ties into the people vanishing... maybe switcheroos across the world are happening en masse and the Turtles have to stop it (maybe some villain in the Battle Nexus is up to no good, causing this). I want to think April gets her head right and comes back to Casey, but I think a more "not quite happy ending" would be her doing so, him fessing up to his probably having sex with Karai (or worse yet, Karai comes to them both proclaiming to be pregnant with his kid), and them kind of in a gray spot unsure of their future together. Shadow maybe taking some time with Leonardo in his tree house, setting up her ninja training?

I think something like this would be what Peter would arrive at, just based on his long term setups and the way he generally ends things. But I have no idea.

[Powder]

Man, that sounds cool as hell. Very plausible. The way you've connected Battle Nexus Splinter with Vol. 2, it makes perfect sense, you blew my mind, yo.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I honestly doubted Pete or anyone would ever follow up on Donnie's Vol 2 vision... that would be awesome, though.

[Andrew NDB]

I honestly doubted Pete or anyone would ever follow up on Donnie's Vol 2 vision... that would be awesome, though.

Why not? He's the one that wrote it. And the other ones came true.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Why not? He's the one that wrote it. And the other ones came true.

Considering how long it has taken for any follow up? Until we saw that Splinter was cloned/alive in #32, yeah.

Sorry, man. I lost ALL faith in Mirage's storytelling.

[Xav]

Why not? He's the one that wrote it. And the other ones came true.I thought it was Lawson not Laird who wrote volume 2.

[myconius]

I thought it was Lawson not Laird who wrote volume 2.

yeah, Lawson wrote and penciled volume 2.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought it was Lawson not Laird who wrote volume 2.

yeah, Lawson wrote and penciled volume 2.

Well, yes and no. But mostly no. Peter would write up what is happening on every page, like a play-by-play detailed synopsis, and Jim would take that and do the dialogue and captions (which is a very strange way to write, but that seemed to work for them).

[Leo656]

That doesn't seem so unusual. I see lots of comics that have separate credits for, like, "Plotted By" and "Scripted By" and I always figured that in at least some cases it works sort of like that. Like one person would give the basic play-by-play and the other one would work the details.

[myconius]

Well, yes and no. But mostly no. Peter would write up what is happening on every page, like a play-by-play detailed synopsis, and Jim would take that and do the dialogue and captions (which is a very strange way to write, but that seemed to work for them).

ahhhh! very interesting! :D

i had NO idea that was the case.

mirage comics are very ambiguous as to who exactly did what?

[Andrew NDB]

That doesn't seem so unusual.

Maybe it's the creative control freak in me as a writer, and I've read a lot of comic book scripts (there is actually no one "template" for comic book scripts... it's all over the map, but it's generally not this... I mean, compare a Grant Morrison script to like a Geoff Johns script or something, or even old timers like John Byrne or so... there's form differences, but it's all there, the specific dialogue, stage direction, etc.). I pretty much want to dictate every word and every nuance, beyond things like design and artistic liberty, and it seems weird to me that writers wouldn't want that. Though I believe when Jim would write up his "rough draft" of a given issue's blurbs and all that from Laird's synopsis, Laird would come back with notes and changes and such before he'd officially sign off on it.

Though it's great that Laird had that much creative trust in Lawson to allow him the leeway he did. I don't think he'd trust anyone else with that. Not Berger or any of those cats beyond maybe Eastman himself.

[Leo656]

Didn't Stan Lee pretty much just lay out the broad strokes and have guys like Ditko actually write the stuff in detail? I swear that's how I've always heard it described in their situation. Particularly from people who love to point out that Lee's partners/underlings did all the real "work" while Stan got all the credit, money, and fame. By Stan's own admission he was never much of a writer. He just did the basic, "So here's what happens" kind of stuff, far as I remember.

[myconius]

...compare a Grant Morrison script to like a Geoff Johns script...

hahaha! i like that analogy!
Grant Morrison to Geoff Johns is like a seven course meal to a bowl of Cap'n Crunch!!! :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

hahaha! i like that analogy!
Grant Morrison to Geoff Johns is like a seven course meal to a bowl of Cap'n Crunch!!! :lol:

I like you already. Grant Morrison is a writing god and Geoff Johns is a meek but empowered frat boy who kissed the right asses coming up.

[Andrew NDB]

Didn't Stan Lee pretty much just lay out the broad strokes and have guys like Ditko actually write the stuff in detail?

That I don't know. Though I'd be fascinated to read whatever would constitute a Stan Lee script. I wouldn't be surprised, in any case. Stan Lee seems like he was more of an ideas guy... thankfully, great ideas.

[myconius]

I like you already. Grant Morrison is a writing god and Geoff Johns is a meek but empowered frat boy who kissed the right asses coming up.

thank you sir! :D

i can't say enough good things about Grant's writing!
the re-read of any given story of his alone is mind bending!!!!

i've read through his entire run on Batman several times, and i'm STILL finding little hidden gems in there!!!

his complete Batman saga is one of my ALL time favorite pieces of comic writing! :)

now i will admit i do find some of Johns writing amusing, but like i said ..... Cap'n Crunch. it's just empty calories and it'll rot your teeth!

[Leo656]

As someone who likes them both, for different reasons, and most of the time but not ALL of the time... I'll just say this...

Someone who hasn't read a million comic books in their life can pick up and read a Geoff Johns comic book, understand it, and enjoy it. You can almost never, ever say that about a Morrison comic.

One can argue all day long about whether one is "Deep" or the other "Superficial", as far as their writing style, and so on... but at the end of the day, comics are still a commercial medium aimed at pleasing the reader, and you have to be heavily immersed in the material to properly appreciate anything Grant does.

I wouldn't say one approach is "better" than the other but I will say that right there is a huge point for Geoff over Grant.

Like it's so weird. I can't even talk to my friends about comics sometimes. They're like, "Is 'Final Crisis' any good?"
"Yeah, it's brilliant, I loved it."
"So I should read it?"
"Oh, God, no, not at all, you'd hate it. You'd never finish it."
"But I thought it was good?"
"It is. But you'd hate it."
"Why?"
"Who is Kamandi, who is Dan Turpin, what do these characters have to do with Darkseid and what is The Omega Sanction? And are you okay with the idea that there are inter-dimensional cosmic vampires that have been feeding on the Multiverse since before it existed?"
"...You're right, I hate it already."
"I know, and that sucks, because it's really an amazing book."

:lol::lol::lol: No foolin'.

[myconius]

As someone who likes them both, for different reasons, and most of the time but not ALL of the time... I'll just say this...

Someone who hasn't read a million comic books in their life can pick up and read a Geoff Johns comic book, understand it, and enjoy it. You can almost never, ever say that about a Morrison comic.

One can argue all day long about whether one is "Deep" or the other "Superficial", as far as their writing style, and so on... but at the end of the day, comics are still a commercial medium aimed at pleasing the reader, and you have to be heavily immersed in the material to properly appreciate anything Grant does.

I wouldn't say one approach is "better" than the other but I will say that right there is a huge point for Geoff over Grant.

Like it's so weird. I can't even talk to my friends about comics sometimes. They're like, "Is 'Final Crisis' any good?"
"Yeah, it's brilliant, I loved it."
"So I should read it?"
"Oh, God, no, not at all, you'd hate it. You'd never finish it."
"But I thought it was good?"
"It is. But you'd hate it."
"Why?"
"Who is Kamandi, who is Dan Turpin, what do these characters have to do with Darkseid and what is The Omega Sanction? And are you okay with the idea that there are inter-dimensional cosmic vampires that have been feeding on the Multiverse since before it existed?"
"...You're right, I hate it already."
"I know, and that sucks, because it's really an amazing book."

:lol::lol::lol: No foolin'.

hahaha! i like your analogy! :D
especially that bit about Final Crisis. so true!

but with Geoff Johns that's why i called his writing Cap'n Crunch.
yes, it's delicious ..... but there's no nutrition to it.

that's not to say i don't mind a simple story from time to time, but he had sure as hell have an awesome artist on the book or forget it!!!!

Grant on the other hand can have an artist that i'm not all too thrilled with ... but the book is usually STILL amazing!!!!

now when Grant has an awesome artist drawing for him like Frank Quitely ...

ever read We3 ???

HOLY AWEMAZEBALLZ!!!!!!!! @www@

[Powder]

Can we not turn this into a thread about other sh*t for once?

[myconius]

Can we not turn this into a thread about other sh*t for once?

AHHHH .... touché :D

[Leo656]

Yeah, We3 is really good.

I'll never deny the criticisms of how Johns writes, but he pleases the reader. He's like Loeb, nobody will argue their writing is deep but they excel at making things accessible for anyone at all to read and exploring characterization, and those things are just as important to comic book writing as depth and complexity.

Geoff and Grant don't write the same way at all but they've both done terrific work in completely different ways and I'm okay with that. I also think neither one deserves to have a pedestal as high as they do but that's neither here nor there.

An anecdote to clarify my position: I'm a huge Guy Gardner/Kyle Rayner fan. When Green Lantern: Rebirth came out, I was against it and I had no idea who Johns was as I hadn't been reading or collecting heavily in some years. All I knew was, for like 20-something years, I'd either hated or been bored by Hal Jordan. I didn't want him back and I didn't care. I swore it would take a hell of an effort to get me to accept the new direction.

Stupid me ended up not only really liking the book but also finding a whole new appreciation for Hal, and the rest of the Corps as well. I went into the whole thing actively wanting to hate it and instead I got something I didn't even know I wanted. I don't change my mind easily, as anyone who knows me can attest, but I did and was happy to admit I was wrong. I still think it might be Geoff's best work.

There's been a lot of ups and downs since then. But I'll always give credit where it's due for Rebirth and while that doesn't excuse a lot of the more recent stuff, I can't in good form say I don't like his work. I think a lot of it is good but it's not complicated, and I'd argue you don't have to be complex to be good. He's good at Big, Iconic, Dramatic stuff and that's fine.

He treated Guy pretty well. I can't hate him. :lol:

Can we not turn this into a thread about other sh*t for once?
I think the guessing game about Peter Laird's whereabouts has already been thoroughly exhausted, Scrooge. :trazz:

[myconius]

Yeah, We3 is really good.

I'll never deny the criticisms of how Johns writes, but he pleases the reader. He's like Loeb, nobody will argue their writing is deep but they excel at making things accessible for anyone at all to read and exploring characterization, and those things are just as important to comic book writing as depth and complexity.

Geoff and Grant don't write the same way at all but they've both done terrific work in completely different ways and I'm okay with that. I also think neither one deserves to have a pedestal as high as they do but that's neither here nor there.

An anecdote to clarify my position: I'm a huge Guy Gardner/Kyle Rayner fan. When Green Lantern: Rebirth came out, I was against it and I had no idea who Johns was as I hadn't been reading or collecting heavily in some years. All I knew was, for like 20-something years, I'd either hated or been bored by Hal Jordan. I didn't want him back and I didn't care. I swore it would take a hell of an effort to get me to accept the new direction.

Stupid me ended up not only really liking the book but also finding a whole new appreciation for Hal, and the rest of the Corps as well. I went into the whole thing actively wanting to hate it and instead I got something I didn't even know I wanted. I don't change my mind easily, as anyone who knows me can attest, but I did and was happy to admit I was wrong. I still think it might be Geoff's best work.

There's been a lot of ups and downs since then. But I'll always give credit where it's due for Rebirth and while that doesn't excuse a lot of the more recent stuff, I can't in good form say I don't like his work. I think a lot of it is good but it's not complicated, and I'd argue you don't have to be complex to be good. He's good at Big, Iconic, Dramatic stuff and that's fine.

He treated Guy pretty well. I can't hate him. :lol:


that's one of the only reason's i appreciate Barry Allen and Hal Jordan is because of Geoff Johns. he pretty much picked them up, dusted them off, and served them up to us ALL brand spanking new!

but still, he made me enjoy them.

i personally prefer Loeb over Johns any day, but that's just me.
i think a lot of Johns writing is accessible, but following his recent Justice League book there's a lot to be desired.

some of my favorite Grant Morrison writing is when he ditches the overly complex storytelling and just lays it on the line.

We3 was such as story as that for me, but also some nice portions of his Batman run.




....about Peter Laird's whereabouts

Peter Laird is trapped in time with Barry Allen!!! :P

[Andrew NDB]

thank you sir! :D

i can't say enough good things about Grant's writing!
the re-read of any given story of his alone is mind bending!!!!

i've read through his entire run on Batman several times, and i'm STILL finding little hidden gems in there!!!

his complete Batman saga is one of my ALL time favorite pieces of comic writing! :)

Me too. I swore off Batman comics because it got too be too much around 2000 and but I still bought the issues that he wrote.

now i will admit i do find some of Johns writing amusing, but like i said ..... Cap'n Crunch. it's just empty calories and it'll rot your teeth!

Packed with nothing but 2 page double splashes, poor man's Whedon dialogue and cliffhanger after cliffhanger and numbing "events" that aren't.

[Leo656]

Knowing how tightly the Fist of DiDio has long been clenched around the DCU... I'm willing to bet a lot of those things aren't all Geoff's fault (especially the Event Fatigue). :lol: I agree, not everything he does is great, but sometimes, I get the feeling the end result is kind of a "Dandelion growing through a crack in the sidewalk" kind of thing. I mean he has a lot of cache but he still has to kind of go in the direction he's nudged.

[myconius]

yeah, they keep putting out events that lead to other meaningless uneventful events that lead to one after another after another ...

the trinity war -> forever evil -> futures end -> convergence -> the darkseid war

it gets tiresome.

[MikeandRaph87]

yeah, they keep putting out events that lead to other meaningless uneventful events that lead to one after another after another ...

the trinity war -> forever evil -> futures end -> convergence -> the darkseid war

it gets tiresome.

If that makes your head spin try every Bat-event from Vengeance of Bane/KnightFall ( late 1992-1994) super long KnightFall trilogy all the way through the War Games sequel, War Crimes (early 2005) are interconnected.

Marvel is no better. The sad thing is, what sells best for comic companies especially the big two? Company wide events so they have been churn them out every year since 1984/1985 with Secret Wars and COIE. We the fans give the most money for such books so they keep doing it. We say we don't like it but this compulsion worse than the Riddler's need to tattle on himself in riddle form keeps these events going and the same goes for the character centric stuff like address in Batman above.

[myconius]

If that makes your head spin try every Bat-event from Vengeance of Bane/KnightFall ( late 1992-1994) super long KnightFall trilogy all the way through the War Games sequel, War Crimes (early 2005) are interconnected.

Marvel is no better. The sad thing is, what sells best for comic companies especially the big two? Company wide events so they have been churn them out every year since 1984/1985 with Secret Wars and COIE. We the fans give the most money for such books so they keep doing it. We say we don't like it but this compulsion worse than the Riddler's need to tattle on himself in riddle form keeps these events going and the same goes for the character centric stuff like address in Batman above.

even though i love the character Spider-Man
i gave up on Marvel a LONG time ago!!!

Nightfall/Knights Quest/Knight's End was dragged out and exhaustive!!!!
there were some great parts like Prodigal.

War Games/War Crimes were pretty lame.

the Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive stuff was enjoyable.

i also liked No Man's Land. but after about two thirds in i was like END ALREADY!!!!

[Nortock Diab]

Like I said, I don't think it'd end too happily. Mikey maybe in self-imposed exile somewhere in space or just drifting (and no, I don't think those eggs are his kids, and I think that revelation coupled with the bloodshed he's partaken in will drive him into such), Don finally moving to Japan to live in isolation there with his "Chet" computer AI as seen in Plastron Cafe. Leonardo moving to his treehouse. Raphael hitting the bayou. I want to say I think the Splinter in the Battle Nexus is either lying or not entirely what he appears (I think the fur Donatello clipped from Dead Splinter will be cross-analyzed against some older Splinter DNA and it will match, or something, cementing that Real Splinter actually did die)... and may have to be killed by one of the Turtles (the future glimpse now finally being wholly realized from TMNT Vol. 2, #1). That could also be what spurs the more permanent separation of the Turtles... that they have to kill Splinter (maybe one or more of them didn't believe Donatello or whoever ends up killing him, that they thought it was the real deal or was better than No Splinter At All, who knows). There's nothing in the future glimpses of the Turtles that suggests any kind of Splinter sticks around much more into the future than this. And another poster might be right about the Karai in their world might actually be the Battle Nexus Karai... but then that begs the question of where the real Karai is. Maybe this ties into the people vanishing... maybe switcheroos across the world are happening en masse and the Turtles have to stop it (maybe some villain in the Battle Nexus is up to no good, causing this). I want to think April gets her head right and comes back to Casey, but I think a more "not quite happy ending" would be her doing so, him fessing up to his probably having sex with Karai (or worse yet, Karai comes to them both proclaiming to be pregnant with his kid), and them kind of in a gray spot unsure of their future together. Shadow maybe taking some time with Leonardo in his tree house, setting up her ninja training?

I think something like this would be what Peter would arrive at, just based on his long term setups and the way he generally ends things. But I have no idea.

That's awesome. Way better in my opinion than Jim Lawson "Volume 4 ending" pin-up (no offense, the drawing is really good as always).
I believe I will print this done in case Volume 4 never gets properly finished...

[myconius]

i have a feeling it'd be left to speculation?

there's no telling what crazy twists and turns this volume would have taken?

as far as i'm concerned, so much of volume four just seems to spiral out of left field.

i personally think much of the series of wild events was due to focus being divided in way too many directions (and not being placed on the comic)

[Nortock Diab]

as much as i hate to say it but i think this is as much of a conclusion to volume 4 as we are going to get-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OPI8ZL8XDLE/Vkd-is0fWeI/AAAAAAAAQr0/3F7ahNf6aZg/s1600/32-7.jpg

if by some chance Peter Laird gives Jim Lawson the OK to actually finish the story then great.
but i'm not going to hold my breath over that.

(personally i think Casey is at the bottom of the hill there with April)

Do we know who asked this commission to Jim Lawson?

[Andrew NDB]

Peter posted his first blog in like a year the other day. Not on his TMNT blog, but the PAL Blog.

Just about time for another Q&A.

[CyberCubed]

People are just going to ask him the same questions he's answered a million times. Then people are going to ask the usual about Volume 4 and what he thinks of IDW/Nick TMNT, and he'll give the same answers he always has.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

People are just going to ask him the same questions he's answered a million times. Then people are going to ask the usual about Volume 4 and what he thinks of IDW/Nick TMNT, and he'll give the same answers he always has.

:tlol: Exactly.

[DestronMirage22]

People are just going to ask him the same questions he's answered a million times. Then people are going to ask the usual about Volume 4 and what he thinks of IDW/Nick TMNT, and he'll give the same answers he always has.

And that, in turn, will make not want to do another one for another few years. Then repeats the cycle.

[MikeandRaph87]

Maybe we could avoid such questions and ask something like ,' what other media characters did you create? For example I know Kevin is credited for creating Slash.' We should be asking questions that would not flustrate him and more welcoming to help encourage him to reembrace us.