Do you think this show is going downhill? [Archive]

J_Snake_Lorenzo

01-21-2016, 03:33 PM

I think it's gone pretty far downhill.

I mean I loved season 1. It was outstanding. Half way through seaon 2 it was here it dropped off for me.

Mostly because they create story arcs that are really interesting and captivating only to just abandon them.

Like season 2 was supposed to be about collecting all the mutagen canisters. How many did they collect ? 1 or 2. Then it gets side tracked and the arc is gone. What ever hapened to the arc with timothy ? Gone. Squirrelanoids and the garbage man. Gone.

And don't even get me started on the Karai story arc. This is the only version of TMNT where I actually liked Karai. Then they make an amazing arc with her. Now that and she is gone.

Then there is the characters. All the characters I like have been killed off.
Bebop & Rocksteady, Snakeweed, Baxter Stockman, Xavier, The Punk Frogs, Mondo Gecko, Splinter, Karai etc. All gone.

I hate April, Kasey and Mikey in this version. Honestly wish they would at least kill off April and Kasey. Mikey is just straight up retarded in this series. It's like he just keeps getting dumber and dumber with each new version of TMNT. Eventually he'll just be some brain dead turtle they just wheel around on a hospital bed.

And April, jeez man. It seems like if there is ever a problem, April just has to put her fingers up to her head and boom. Problem all fixed thanks to her super stupid super powers. It's just so lame.

And Leo is just annoying now that Seth Green has taken over his voice. I dunno, I just don't dig his voice as leo.

And so now where only stuck with Donny, Raph and the Triceratons. Unless you like the Fugitoid, then there is him too. I never cared for the fugitoid myself.

The show just doesn't really have enough going for it any more I feel.

Then it has other problems. Like adding in old characters that don't need to be there. And are really only by name only. Like Hun/Bruce Lee. The Neutrinos that were really just little robots. Bishop. Who's design was just a lazy ill conceived Typical krang body. Lord Dregg... Where the hell is Mung ?

And then there are the hiatuses. Don't even get me started on those.
Crikey, the hiatuses alone are enough to make a person loose interest in this show.

I mean my nieces and nephew don't know anything about this show... Because it's never on. And the hiatuses are so long. It's long enough for children to completely forget about it. I mean with al the media stuff and tv shows, computer games etc in this day and age. Kids are not going to remember a show that only airs 2 or 3 episodes every 2 or 3 months.

The blast from the past special was awesome though. I really enjoyed that Special.

But ever since the writing staff from season 1 vanished, the episodes have just gone downhill. At least for me.

Basically, Lack of characters, Too many useless unnecessary characters, The abandonment of story arcs, too many fillers, Bad writing, The humor is dropping, Long hiatuses, poor character development issues. etc.

And like what the heck happened to the 80's turtle van they built. That disappeared.

And season 4. Wtf ? First episode. Oh Splinter got killed, the planet Earth got destroyed and sucked up into a black hole...

No problem. We'll just press this button over here and viola, it's all been undone. No worries. Good as new. Jeeze.

BabyTurtles

01-21-2016, 03:49 PM

Personally I think it went downhill...I liked season 1....and the first parts of seasons 2...everything else...not at all.

DarkLightDragon

01-21-2016, 03:51 PM

Cubed, will you ever admit that the Fred Wolf show was deeply flawed and that the Nick cartoon has some serious issues? It's okay to still like them, but admit they have problems.

You're talking about the same person who doesn't also acknowledge the 2k3 series had it's flaws. And I love 2k3. I just don't go around defending all it's issues and making it better than what it actually is.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-21-2016, 04:11 PM

You're talking about the same person who doesn't also acknowledge the 2k3 series had it's flaws. And I love 2k3. I just don't go around defending all it's issues and making it better than what it actually is.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. True true. :trazz:

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 04:28 PM

plastroncafe

01-21-2016, 04:36 PM

Sorry, no. And stop trying to speak for me.

GoldMutant

01-21-2016, 04:43 PM

People only claim this show went downhill because they made their own headcanons and fanfiction in their minds years ago and the show didn't go in the direction they wanted it too.

Also "lol" at people saying plotlines have been abandoned, when the show always calls back to old stuff.

Oh you mean:

The mind controlling of the Mutanimals and Raphael (surely didn't do anything with Karai that's for sure)
The missing mutants from Metalhead Rewired, an episode from season 2 such as Spider Bytez and Snakeweed for example
The frozen Mutagen Man (barring RCS, that's not consistent)
The one off mutants like Malachi, the Punk Frogs, the horror mutants, and the Chimera to name a few
How the Mutanimals formed (Slash missing, LH presumed dead, and Rockwell and Pete being MIA after Metalhead Rewired
Kirby going MIA instead of prominent in season 2 like MM with his demutation and mutated state holding no value
The mutagen canisters from season 2 (callbacks with Mondo do not count)

Please Cube, don't act like the criticism isn't warranted for the TMNT cartoons, as all of them have major flaws instead of being products of their creators or time. Callbacks do not make up for the fact of ignoring plotlines just to dive straight into action. It's contrivance in writing, destroys development, and is ridiculous of not assisting the characters.

And no, the reason fans get angry is because the writers repeat the exact details as before; go back to Raph being angry for no reason in Clash of the Mutanimals, Mikey's poor characterization in The Croaking, Donnie and April's romance going nowhere or any of the relationships for that matter. I'm certainly not asking for callbacks and call it a day, I want to see progress and as far as I'm concerned, the show has done absolutely nothing since (Insert season number here). The concepts are rushed and it's ultimately the downfall of the entire show.

Aaronardo

01-21-2016, 04:44 PM

I loved Season 1. Nothing really more to say there, it was just a really damn good show then and most people posting in this thread would agree with me. I actually liked Season 2 about as much as I liked Season 1. Maybe a little bit more. I dunno, something about it clicked with me. Maybe it was a little bit that it grew some balls and decided to do some really dark stories, with some nice silly ones to balance them out. That kinda happens to most shows when they're in their 2nd Seasons, I guess, but no reason to not like it. I really loved Season 2.

Season 3 is when things started to go downhill. And... really fast. I mean, you could almost hear the show shrivel and die when it showed us a wonderful second episode under the name "A Foot Too Big." You know, the episode where Bigfoot falls in love with Donatello and April acts like a huge attention-whore at the end. Yeah, I loved that one too. :roll: It was actually more of a roller-coaster of quality. There would be an onslaught of mediocre to terrible episodes, and then, all of a sudden, the show gets great out of nowhere. Rinse and repeat. I mean, Season 3 saw some classics like Tale of the Yokai, The Pig And The Rhino, Return to New York, Vision Quest, and, of course, Annihilation: Earth. But it also saw some real stinkers like A Foot Too Big, The Croaking, Eye of the Chimera (which was written by a writer I actually really respect. D'oh.), Meet Mondo Gecko, Battle for New York, Clash of the Mutanimals, and Turtles in Time. I'm serious, sometimes I would tell myself after seeing all those horrible episodes in a row, "One more bad episode and I'll stop watching this show", and next week we get an amazing episode. I won't say I loved Season 3 or hated Season 3. To me, it was just a huge mixed bag.

Season 4, though... oh my god. Out of 6 episodes, I have only actually enjoyed ONE so far. And they probably destroyed their animation budget to even bring it. And heck, the writing was just kind of okay for that episode. I don't know WHERE the hell people are coming from with this whole thing "Season 4's making the show get better." No, it's gotten FAR worse. It's not so much the space setting, it's definitely not the animation, which I swear is up to Dreamworks quality at this point. It's damn near everything else. The new characters introduced (besides the Fugitoid, of course) have been bland as hell. Mona Lisa, Armaggon, hell, even Lord Dregg, a villain I was VERY excited to see in this new show, is underdeveloped as hell, and is only really going after the Turtles because they made him drop something on accident. Yeah. That's why he's traveling the galaxies, paying bounty hunters and all kinds of crazy sh*t over him DROPPING something. The writing is also not that sharp... at all. At times, it feels like the story doesn't even know what to do with itself. And obviously the comedy has become nonexistent. Hell, Casey doesn't even have a POINT of existing in this arc, and yet here he is, more annoying and tacked on than ever.

So do I think the show is going downhill? Definitely. There's a huge chance that Season 4 will pull itself together around halfway through, but at this point, the only reason I'm still sticking around is to see the OT crossover that was confirmed at SDCC. But this show's gone from amazing to great to mediocre to just cringey. But that's my silly personal opinion.

Etsyturtle2

01-21-2016, 04:46 PM

Yeah it sucks.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 04:52 PM

Here we go. This is why this thread should have been locked from the start. Anyhoo let us begin:

The mind controlling of the Mutanimals and Raphael (surely didn't do anything with Karai that's for sure)

1. This was a one-episode plot that failed so Shredder moved on. A bunch of fans deluded themselves into thinking there was going to be this "Dark Raphael" story arc because of their own headcanons, when this was never intended. A perfect example what I'm talking about.

The missing mutants from Metalhead Rewired, an episode from season 2 such as Spider Bytez and Snakeweed for example

Uh, what? How is this a problem? There are tons of mutants on the loose in New York and the Turtles bump into them from time to time.

The frozen Mutagen Man (barring RCS, that's not consistent)

They're probably leaving him frozen toward the end of the show in case they come up with a story for Mutagen Man again.

The one off mutants like Malachi, the Punk Frogs, the horror mutants, and the Chimera to name a few

Again, what is the problem here? The Punk Frogs went down south and are friends with the Turtles. Malachi is a good guy. Almost all the horror mutants died or are captured (The Creep is in Donnie's jar, April's Mom blew up, the Dream Beavers are mystical, the car mutant blew up, the giant bird is the only one around).

How the Mutanimals formed (Slash missing, LH presumed dead, and Rockwell and Pete being MIA after Metalhead Rewired

And there is a Nick comic that shows how the Mutanimals were formed. Read the Nick animated comics.

Kirby going MIA instead of prominent in season 2 like MM with his demutation and mutated state holding no value

??? This isn't a plothole, you're just bringing up random stuff now. Kirby-bat flew around New York. New York is a big city. Turtles found him and turned him back to normal.

The mutagen canisters from season 2 (callbacks with Mondo do not count)
[/LIST]

Again, what? The random mutagen canisters is exactly why random mutants keep popping up. This was done to make sense of all the random mutants they could introduce. The Turtles were never going to be able to retrieve every mutagen canister, do you not know how big NYC is? All the Season 2 and some of the Season 3 mutants] were because of this. THIS WAS THE PLOT OF SEASON 2.

DarkLightDragon

01-21-2016, 04:57 PM

I'm still puzzled how you think you have any authority as to what should be locked.

The OP is asking a simple question. And we all are giving our simple answers. Once again, you just don't want to hear anything negative even when people are being constructive and rational in expressing their discontent with how the show is being currently directed. Why should this thread be locked when everyone but you is being civil in the conversation?

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:02 PM

Foombamaroom

01-21-2016, 05:02 PM

I'm just gonna ignore Cubed. It's clear he's in denial.

Season 1 was great. It really picked up after Episode 9, and it stayed that way all the way through.

The reason why I like Season 2 more than Season 1 is because of the stand-out episodes, and I didn't mind the filler ones. Slash and Destroy, The Invasion, Vengeance is Mine, Wormquake, etc... those were some great episodes. But now, looking back, it kinda sucks that they don't have any repercussions.

The only episodes I really, really enjoyed from Season 3 were Tale of the Yokai and Annihilation: Earth. The rest were just bad/mediocre. The reason why was because they had SO MANY arcs they had to wrap up (Leo's injury, the team's defeat/depression, etc.) and they didn't do any of that. They just ignored it and it's never even mentioned.

Season 4, though... Good. ****ing. God. I can't take it. There are so many hiatuses and we haven't even gotten a good episode yet. It took them FIVE EPISODES to even begin to think of a way to advance the plot. I was expecting a fast-paced first half with Dregg after the Turtles, but nope, freak of the week. Every episode is filler.

Everything I'm hearing about Season 5 seems like crap, too. An episode with Dracula? The hell?

plastroncafe

01-21-2016, 05:05 PM

Given that the premise is Yes or No, it's already different than the Venting thread.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:08 PM

I'm just gonna ignore Cubed. It's clear he's in denial.

So stop watching the show then.

The only episodes I really, really enjoyed from Season 3 were Tale of the Yokai and Annihilation: Earth. The rest were just bad/mediocre. The reason why was because they had SO MANY arcs they had to wrap up (Leo's injury, the team's defeat/depression, etc.) and they didn't do any of that. They just ignored it and it's never even mentioned.

Season 3 had tons of fantastic episodes, even if you didn't care for the Northampton arc, everything from when they got back to NY was good, great or above average. The only ep I didn't care for was the one Snakeweed merged with the Creep.

Season 4, though... Good. ****ing. God. I can't take it. There are so many hiatuses and we haven't even gotten a good episode yet. It took them FIVE EPISODES to even begin to think of a way to advance the plot. I was expecting a fast-paced first half with Dregg after the Turtles, but nope, freak of the week. Every episode is filler.

ONLY SIX EPISODES of Season 4 have aired. SIX! Out of a 26 episode season!

And how are the episodes filler? The Triceratons, Dregg, Armaggon are not filler. I'd only say the Wyrm episodes and arguably the Bellybomb ep were filler and they were funny/silly episodes on purpose.

Bauer536

01-21-2016, 05:10 PM

Season 1 was great because it's what started the show, and we had some enjoyable episodes. Season 2, I thought, was even better. Yes, I admit. It did have a lot of filler, but it was good filler. I especially loved episodes like "Invasion of the Squirrelnoids" and "Fungus Humongous." Season 3 started a little rocky with good episodes here and there ("Eye of the Chimera"), but a few bad ones, too ("A Foot Too Big"). Once "Vision Quest" was over, the show really came back for me. The rest of Season 3 was solid, and that was thanks to episodes like "Tales of the Yokai" and "Annihilation Earth" - that was a killer finale.

So far, season 4 feels absolutely weak in writing. It has it's high points - Armmagon, Leo hugging Raph, Fugitoid's portrayal, and flashy space battles. However, it comes off like Star Wars: The Force Awakens. It brings in a fun factor, but there's nothing there. Even April is starting to remind me of Rey - with all her powers, why need the turtles if she could probably stop the Triceratons herself? I don't know about you, but keep Star Wars out of TMNT.

The majority of Season 4 right now feels somewhat soulless. It's become less consistent and more juvenile; it is starting to feel like a typical Nickelodeon series. Whenever they lose creativity, they resort to the elements that make every one of their programs: fun, insults, dumb acts/characters, constant action, and potty humor to the max. There's been potty humor on this show, but this season, it's gotten worse. Seriously, "Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind" had that guy who just kept farting and burping. I'm sorry. Where is Ciro? Do we really need this? Also, the scene where Mike barfs - Really?

I will keep watching in hopes it will get better, and maybe it will. However, I haven't been too thrilled with this season.

DarkLightDragon

01-21-2016, 05:10 PM

If this thread had it's own tag, I would so be down for a 'cubedindenial' tag.:lol:

Foombamaroom

01-21-2016, 05:12 PM

So stop watching the show then.

Season 3 had tons of fantastic episodes, even if you didn't care for the Northampton arc, everything from when they got back to NY was good, great or above average. The only ep I didn't care for was the one Snakeweed merged with the Creep.

ONLY SIX EPISODES of Season 4 have aired. SIX! Out of a 26 episode season!

And how are the episodes filler? The Triceratons, Dregg, Armaggon are not filler. I'd only say the Wyrm episodes and arguably the Bellybomb ep were filler and they were funny/silly episodes on purpose.

Armaggon's episode didn't establish anything but a new adversary for the Turtles.
4x01 doesn't count as filler because, well, it's a premiere. But it's more filler than some of the other premieres.
And the Triceratons have been handled poorly all season. Mostly as secondary antagonists rather than the primary ones. Hell, even Dregg isn't the primary one.

And 6 out of 26 have aired, yeah... That's not helping their case. Competent writers would be able to have a great first 6 episodes and set everything up.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:14 PM

Armaggon's episode didn't establish anything but a new adversary for the Turtles.
4x01 doesn't count as filler because, well, it's a premiere. But it's more filler than some of the other premieres.
And the Triceratons have been handled poorly all season. Mostly as secondary antagonists rather than the primary ones. Hell, even Dregg isn't the primary one..

So I'm baffled what your complaint is? The Triceratons have been the primary story arc of Season 4. Of course they're not going to be in every single episode, but they're in many of them as well as the very next episode (if you seen the preview) they are in the Tri-arena.

Lord Dregg was brought up again in the Bellybomb episode. He's tracking the Turtles.

What do you want, exactly? The Turtles will be in space for 13 episodes.

Zak The Neutrino

01-21-2016, 05:14 PM

Season 1 was great because it's what started the show, and we had some enjoyable episodes. Season 2, I thought, was even better. Yes, I admit. It did have a lot of filler, but it was good filler. I especially loved episodes like "Invasion of the Squirrelnoids" and "Fungus Humongous." Season 3 started a little rocky with good episodes here and there ("Eye of the Chimera"), but a few bad ones, too ("A Foot Too Big"). Once "Vision Quest" was over, the show really came back for me. The rest of Season 3 was solid, and that was thanks to episodes like "Tales of the Yokai" and "Annihilation Earth" - that was a killer finale.

So far, season 4 feels absolutely weak in writing. It has it's high points - Armmagon, Leo hugging Raph, Fugitoid's portrayal, and flashy space battles. However, it comes off like Star Wars: The Force Awakens. It brings in a fun factor, but there's nothing there. Even April is starting to remind me of Rey - with all her powers, why need the turtles if she could probably stop the Triceratons herself? I don't know about you, but keep Star Wars out of TMNT.

The majority of Season 4 right now feels somewhat soulless. It's become less consistent and more juvenile; it is starting to feel like a typical Nickelodeon series. Whenever they lose creativity, they resort to the elements that make every one of their programs: fun, insults, dumb acts/characters, constant action, and potty humor to the max. There's been potty humor on this show, but this season, it's gotten worse. Seriously, "Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind" had that guy who just kept darting and burping. I'm sorry. Where is Ciro? Do we really need this? Also, the scene where Mike barfs - Really?

I will keep watching in hopes it will get better, and maybe it will. However, I haven't been too thrilled with this season.

I agree with you on April. We should start a thread discussing if April is turning into a Mary Sue.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:15 PM

April isn't a Mary Sue.

Foombamaroom

01-21-2016, 05:16 PM

What do you want, exactly? The Turtles will be in space for 13 episodes.

I want what the 4kids story arc did. I want what Mirage did. I want 13 episodes that follow the Turtles through space and are connected. The Turtles in Space Arc in the 4kids/Mirage was awesome because it followed the same plot the entire time and nothing felt like filler.

This one, on the other hand, feels like they're trying to make just as many homages to Star Wars and Star Trek as possible.

Foombamaroom

01-21-2016, 05:17 PM

Cubed, I don't get WHY you're so adamant against us having different opinions than yours. Your comments here aren't necessary, as they're just trying to change the opinions of others and/or get this thread locked when people are actually using it.

Zak The Neutrino

01-21-2016, 05:18 PM

April isn't a Mary Sue.

Not yet but it's heading in that direction. Especially when she can just mind explode whenever they are cornered.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:20 PM

I want what the 4kids story arc did. I want what Mirage did. I want 13 episodes that follow the Turtles through space and are connected. The Turtles in Space Arc in the 4kids/Mirage was awesome because it followed the same plot the entire time and nothing felt like filler.

The Turtles in Space arc in 4kids was primary about the Triceratons, that's why it was only 5 episodes. They made several space or sci-fi episodes after that and brought in tons of aliens.

This one, on the other hand, feels like they're trying to make just as many homages to Star Wars and Star Trek as possible.

The entire Mirage Turtles in Space arc WAS inspired by Star Wars. Peter Laird flat out says the bar scene and all the aliens when they first arrive in space is inspired by it.

Fugitoid was also loosely based on C-3P0.

GoldMutant

01-21-2016, 05:21 PM

Here we go. This is why this thread should have been locked from the start. Anyhoo let us begin:

1. This was a one-episode plot that failed so Shredder moved on. A bunch of fans deluded themselves into thinking there was going to be this "Dark Raphael" story arc because of their own headcanons, when this was never intended. A perfect example what I'm talking about.

Uh, what? How is this a problem? There are tons of mutants on the loose in New York and the Turtles bump into them from time to time.

They're probably leaving him frozen toward the end of the show in case they come up with a story for Mutagen Man again.

Again, what is the problem here? The Punk Frogs went down south and are friends with the Turtles. Malachi is a good guy. Almost all the horror mutants died or are captured (The Creep is in Donnie's jar, April's Mom blew up, the Dream Beavers are mystical, the car mutant blew up, the giant bird is the only one around).

And there is a Nick comic that shows how the Mutanimals were formed. Read the Nick animated comics.

??? This isn't a plothole, you're just bringing up random stuff now. Kirby-bat flew around New York. New York is a big city. Turtles found him and turned him back to normal.

Again, what? The random mutagen canisters is exactly why random mutants keep popping up. This was done to make sense of all the random mutants they could introduce. The Turtles were never going to be able to retrieve every mutagen canister, do you not know how big NYC is? All the Season 2 and some of the Season 3 mutants] were because of this. THIS WAS THE PLOT OF SEASON 2.

:roll: Fine, I'll dissect this one part at a time:

1. The mind control- First off, do not put words in my mouth and generalize. Did I get disappointed? Yes; despite it not being an arc, the problem is they had they do not call back at all. If Raphael is going to be a scapegoat in this series, that's a problem, but the issue is why they don't call back to it or justify it's plot. That episode only exists for hype clouding judgement; even then, I don't tolerate the stupidity of how Raph had to be written to be a jerk nor how the Mutanimals were handled. You say the show has callbacks, well they should have done that beforehand.

Like I've said countless times now, Clash of the Mutanimals was and remains my second least favorite of the season, it's horribly written by removing Noxious Avenger's entire plot in two minutes and then what I said above. If you're going to do this episode fine, but I saw no love in that episode outside excellent fights, the only thing the episode has going for it.

2. Mutants (Not) In Action- Oh yeah, mutants that never popped up outside that episode. Put aside any cameos the show did with a different Snakeweed with Creeping Doom and the Rockwell goblins with Mazes and Mutants and answer this, where are those mutants? Meet Mondo Gecko doesn't count as it appeals to fans with that massive love letter. When you remove these three episodes, none of them return barring Muckman and Mondo with the Mutanimals in Annihilation Earth. It's a bloody important point on where they are after the Kraang put them in juvenile detention. Again, what is the point you're trying to convey Cube?

3. Mutagen Man frozen- :roll: I directly said this, the only reason they didn't bring him back is because Roger Craig Smith is Sonic the Hedgehog; didn't Ciro state at one point "Mutagen Man will have a large role in season 2?" That role is reduced to cameos throughout the entire show, a plot line established midseason 1 and into the beginning of 2. Barring theories through headcanon and reviving an old school character again, why is this character ignored heavily outside Roger's disappearance? Besides, Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman had Kirby and Splinter focused on; Donnie didn't state he was going to cure him. That is an inconsistency if I ever saw one; though I'm aware Timothy is a hated character from the Nickverse, why build him up and never use him?

4. One offs- Pizza Face, a Squirrelnoid, and the wasps are around if you wanna go by Meet Mondo Gecko. The beavers, the Frogs, and the Chimera still exist; once more, where is Malachi? Filler is fine when it needs to be, but it's foolish to introduce these characters, give them an iconic name or interesting concept, and

5. Mutanimals formation- That comic from what I saw is near noncanon for contradicting events previous in the Nick show. If it's not mentioned in the show, it doesn't exist as my rule of thumb. It's beyond stupid and is why I don't care for Battle for New York at all in comparison to everyone on here. The episode lazily threw four mutants who have a vendetta with the Kraang, three of which from previous incarnations of the Mutanimals or the ongoing IDW for Slash and Pigeon Pete.

6. Kirby-Bat(man)- No, it is a serious conflict, one dragged out beyond it's welcome for Kirby in this series. With the exception of brief mentions from Mutagen Man Unleashed and Slash and Destroy where Donnie swears to make retromutagen, that plotline is dropped for no reason. With the exception of a brief mention in Of Rats and Men in Donatello's dialogue and Kirby's cameo in Metalhead Rewired, nothing is brought up of this issue. Then they shoehorn in a conclusion with Baxter's mutation episode and again conclude the second season with his mutation. That's..... brilliant. :roll: They essentially wasted an entire plot that held no meaning and didn't make it continuous, it's contrivance if I ever saw it again.

7. It's raining.... mutagen- I've been to New York during eighth grade, I know how big it is; again do not put words in my mouth. The only mutant created by that canister rain is Mondo Gecko, otherwise the entire plot dropped immediately when season 2 reached the Karai-Splinter-Shredder conflict. If they aren't going to address that issue, well we have a problem. If the Turtles directly stated there was at 60 canisters, then at least one-third should have been collected.

Cube, do not put words in our mouths; if you have a problem, then put us on ignore or don't respond if you cannot contribute anything other than denounce the criticism and lock threads. The fact is the show is inconsistent and is losing steam; combine that in with Nick having poor marketing and changing writers who are inconsistent in certain characters, then the show is dying, end of story.

plastroncafe

01-21-2016, 05:32 PM

Not yet but it's heading in that direction. Especially when she can just mind explode whenever they are cornered.

I reject the notion that Mary Sue is a bad thing.
Batman is a Mary Sue, and he's awesome.

I'd say she's more McGuffin or Deus Ex Machina than anything.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 05:36 PM

Man, this is going to be one of those days, huh?

1. The mind control- First off, do not put words in my mouth and generalize. Did I get disappointed? Yes; despite it not being an arc, the problem is they had they do not call back at all.

What are they to call back to? That Raph got mind-controlled for 20 minutes? They do mind control plots in tons of superhero shows and never call back to them.

2. Mutants (Not) In Action- Oh yeah, mutants that never popped up outside that episode. Put aside any cameos the show did with a different Snakeweed with Creeping Doom and the Rockwell goblins with Mazes and Mutants and answer this, where are those mutants?

What do you want to say here? Snakeweed, Spiderbitez are still in New York. Probably in the sewers away from people. When the writers want to use them again, they will. You want the Turtles to hunt them down and kill them or something?

Many of the other mutants are "good guys" and as such have no story arc. We see them again to help the Turtles, such as in the Season 3 finale where both Mondo Geck and Muckman joined the Mutanimals.

3. Mutagen Man frozen- :roll: I directly said this, the only reason they didn't bring him back is because Roger Craig Smith is Sonic the Hedgehog;

I'm sure Mutagen Man will be turned back to normal at some point before the show ends. I don't see people's obsession with this. As I said, they might want to use Mutagen Man again in a plot before they make him human again.

4. One offs- Pizza Face, a Squirrelnoid, and the wasps are around if you wanna go by Meet Mondo Gecko. The beavers, the Frogs, and the Chimera still exist; once more, where is Malachi? Filler is fine when it needs to be, but it's foolish to introduce these characters, give them an iconic name or interesting concept, and

1. Pizzaface was ambiguous, and even if he is real, again so what? He'll appear again when they want to use him.

2. Squiirelnoids are in the sewers, most of the wasps died. Again they'll call back to them when they need to.

3. Why do you keep bringing up the Punk Frogs and Malachi? They're good guys, they're not causing trouble. The Beavers are also NOT mutants, they're mystical creatures. They disappeared when their trouble ended. You really think Napoleon is never going to return to help out again?

. Mutanimals formation- That comic from what I saw is near noncanon for contradicting events previous in the Nick show. If it's not mentioned in the show, it doesn't exist as my rule of thumb. It's beyond stupid and is why I don't care for Battle for New York at all in comparison to everyone on here. The episode lazily threw four mutants who have a vendetta with the Kraang, three of which from previous incarnations of the Mutanimals or the ongoing IDW for Slash and Pigeon Pete.

The comic is canon and showed the Mutanimals form as a team. And even before that comic, they never had to SHOW on screen how they formed. You don't have to see everything. I saw the comic as an added bonus.

Kirby-Bat(man)- No, it is a serious conflict, one dragged out beyond it's welcome

They turn Kirby back to normal mid-way into Season 2. New York is a big city, what on earth do you want? Now you're complaining about plots resolved?

. It's raining.... mutagen- I've been to New York during eighth grade, I know how big it is; again do not put words in my mouth. The only mutant created by that canister rain is Mondo Gecko, otherwise the entire plot dropped immediately when season 2 reached the Karai-Splinter-Shredder conflict. If they aren't going to address that issue, well we have a problem. If the Turtles directly stated there was at 60 canisters, then at least one-third should have been collected.

The missing mutagen canisters were done to give an excuse for new mutants to pop out of the woodwork. I thought this was common sense. You seem to have a problem with loose mutants in New York, I'm sure that's not a problem for the show.

Likewise none of these characters have been forgotten. Its like you guys never watched a superhero show before that has recurring villains that appearn and disappear for 30 episodes at a time.

Do people watching Batman ask, "Where is Riddler, did they forget about him?" cause he didn't appear in the last 20 episodes? No.

DarkLightDragon

01-21-2016, 05:36 PM

Okay there's now a cubeddefendsall tag. Works just as well.

Ninturtle

01-21-2016, 05:43 PM

I asked Brandon Aumen if we'll see Mutagen Man again and he said "Maybe"

GoldMutant

01-21-2016, 05:51 PM

I asked Brandon Aumen if we'll see Mutagen Man again and he said "Maybe"

*Auman there big guy (:P)

Honestly though, give us that Timothy story. Just end his little story so his cameos don't leave an annoyance. It's been a full season, time to get cracking.

Papenbrook

01-21-2016, 05:52 PM

CyberCubed, please stop. Just stop.

All you are doing is upsetting people. It's just not working, man.

------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I do think the show has gone downhill.

It has begun to take itself less seriously. It has become more juvenile (Bellybomb, anyone?), more offensive(with its portrayal of plus-size Mikey), more random(Ex.: The montage during Casey's transformation into a Mr. Manhattan clone; Annoying Mikey's "rap"; Mikey burping on Bellybomb; etc.), and more unnecessary(again with the rap). It is honestly sad.

I thought this show had much more potential.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-21-2016, 05:57 PM

CyberCubed, please stop. Just stop.

All you are doing is upsetting people. It's just not working, man.

-------------------------------------------------- - ---

Anyway, I do think the show has gone downhill.

It has begun to take itself less seriously. It has become more juvenile (Bellybomb, anyone?), more offensive(with its portrayal of plus-size Mikey), more random(Ex.: The montage during Casey's transformation into a Mr. Manhattan clone; Annoying Mikey's "rap"; Mikey burping on Bellybomb; etc.), and more unnecessary

In their defense, Bellybomb was a preexisting character. A bizarre preexisting character, yet preexisting.

Ninturtle

01-21-2016, 05:58 PM

CyberCubed, please stop. Just stop.

All you are doing is upsetting people. It's just not working, man.

-------------------------------------------------- - ---

Anyway, I do think the show has gone downhill.

It has begun to take itself less seriously. It has become more juvenile (Bellybomb, anyone?), more offensive(with its portrayal of plus-size Mikey), more random(Ex.: The montage during Casey's transformation into a Mr. Manhattan clone; Annoying Mikey's "rap"; Mikey burping on Bellybomb; etc.), and more unnecessary(again with the rap). It is honestly sad.

I thought this show had much more potential.

The show is offensive because of a fat Mikey? Get off the internet, maybe you'll gain common sense.

Bauer536

01-21-2016, 07:41 PM

Stupid auto-correct. I was typing my previous message on Rich Note, and it must have changed "farting" into "darting." :tgrumble:

Anyways, the OT/2k12 episode looks promising. Otherwise, the only thing I loved so far is the Half-Shell Heroes special Blast from the Past. That felt like a solid TMNT episode more than what has been done for Season 4.

Autbot_Benz

01-21-2016, 08:33 PM

CyberCubed, please stop. Just stop.

All you are doing is upsetting people. It's just not working, man.

-------------------------------------------------- - ---

Anyway, I do think the show has gone downhill.

It has begun to take itself less seriously. It has become more juvenile (Bellybomb, anyone?), more offensive(with its portrayal of plus-size Mikey), more random(Ex.: The montage during Casey's transformation into a Mr. Manhattan clone; Annoying Mikey's "rap"; Mikey burping on Bellybomb; etc.), and more unnecessary(again with the rap). It is honestly sad.

I thought this show had much more potential.

Fat Mikey Offensive seriously. That wasn't offensive it shows how much Mikey loves his Pizza. Go back to Tumblr you SJW stop getting offended by everything.

OrangeNinja1987

01-21-2016, 09:51 PM

I loved season 1, and even more season 2 (Slash and Destroy is everything I like about TMNT all in one episode, it is the epitome of awesomeness). Then there's season 3. The first half was often mediocre, but there were a few gems that I liked, such as The Chimera and Spirit Quest, and the parts of the Croaking with Napoleon Dynamite references. But the show got really good once they returned to New York. I happened to love the Return/Battle for New York 2-parter, and pretty much everything after it. It got a little shaky again at the end of the season, like in Clash and whatever episode it was where Karai captured the turtles.
Now, in season 4, the only episode I've really loved has been The Moons of Thalos 3, and I liked the one with Armaggon, whatever it was called. Mikey's Mind had a good concept but it was mostly butchered.
And I think this downhill slide is because the show forgot why it was so good in the first place. There has been noticeably lack of a lot of crucial things this season and an overabundance of what this show has never been good at. There needs to be Darker stories to balance out the goofy ones, a strong overarching plot, restraint over immature humor, more character development, remembering that April is a kunoichi and not a gunner, fixing the stalled development of key side characters, etc, etc. Something about the turtles feels off, too, like no one cares about writing them as good as they can anymore. The show now just feels like an amalgamation of what's popular right now: Star Wars, Doctor Who, and various lazily-written cartoons.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 09:56 PM

Why are people complaining about Season 4 when:

1. Only 6 episodes have aired out of a 26 episode season....we have 20 episodes left

2. These are space adventures, two of them have been wacky filler (Wyrm and Bellybomb ep), and all the others have pushed the plot forward or introduced an important recurring villain like Dregg, Armaggon, the Triceratons themselves, etc.

I swear some of you have no patience.

Powder

01-21-2016, 10:39 PM

more offensive(with its portrayal of plus-size Mikey)

As a fat f**k who was not offended by big Mikey in the slightest (I even re-vined a clip of it), I'm gonna have to ask that you stop speaking on my behalf. Or in general, for that matter.

Casey

01-21-2016, 11:03 PM

Are they still in space? Then yes.

In the first ever stories about the turtles by the creators themselves by like the third dreaming issue, where do the turtles go!? They go to space. This has been part of the lore since the very beginning. So stop it.

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 11:35 PM

People complained the Turtles spent too much time in NY and every episode had the same backdrop. Then people complained there was too many mutants. Then people complained there was too many Kraang episodes. Then people complained there were too many Shredder/Karai/Foot episodes. Then people complained about the Northmapton episodes. Now people are complaining they're in space.

You people don't know what you want. :lol:

plastroncafe

01-21-2016, 11:47 PM

Gosh, it's almost like we're individuals with different tastes.
Who'd have thunk!?

CyberCubed

01-21-2016, 11:54 PM

Gosh, it's almost like we're individuals with different tastes.
Who'd have thunk!?

The show is still going through the checklist of every aspect of TMNT. People just complain about whatever is going on at the time, and then they move on to complain about the next thing. I predicted before Season 4 started you would have people complaining about the Turtles in space, and sure enough here it is.

plastroncafe

01-22-2016, 12:05 AM

I predict that you'll complain about people complaining during the events of season 5.

I also predict that tomorrow water will be wet, and the sun will rise in the east.

ssjup81

01-22-2016, 12:12 AM

Nope, feels about the same to me, but glad season 1 Mikey isn't still a thing.

victory_angel

01-22-2016, 12:23 AM

I don't see this show as going to hill...I admit is has flaws and some story lines are not all we would like them to be.

A lot of these episodes are disjointed and inconsistent is because the writers and directors don't have time to completely compare notes for scripts or production episodes. Yes they want to keep things episodic so people can jump in at any point and get some idea of whats going on. In this current season Brandon Auman has only wrote for Beyond the Known Universe and Riddle of the Ancient Aeons. There have been 4 other writers aside from him so far this season with one episode each. And generally when it comes to script writing whoever writes episode 2 or whatever episode in a season is writing at the same time as episode 1.

They don't know whats completely going on in such and such episode because such and such episode is being written. All they have is a basic idea of what is going to be introduced in a certain episode...they give a treatment write a 25-32 page draft and then send it to to be reviewed before they go the next episode they have been assigned.

Being a kids show the series can't do everything it wants to do. And some of the things they would like to do such expanding on certain parts is cut for time so it's left to be implied or up to viewer interpretation.

:roll: Fine, I'll dissect this one part at a time:

1. The mind control- First off, do not put words in my mouth and generalize. Did I get disappointed? Yes; despite it not being an arc, the problem is they had they do not call back at all. If Raphael is going to be a scapegoat in this series, that's a problem, but the issue is why they don't call back to it or justify it's plot. That episode only exists for hype clouding judgement; even then, I don't tolerate the stupidity of how Raph had to be written to be a jerk nor how the Mutanimals were handled. You say the show has callbacks, well they should have done that beforehand.

Like I've said countless times now, Clash of the Mutanimals was and remains my second least favorite of the season, it's horribly written by removing Noxious Avenger's entire plot in two minutes and then what I said above. If you're going to do this episode fine, but I saw no love in that episode outside excellent fights, the only thing the episode has going for it.

Raph being brainwashed was not the entire point of the episode. The Shredder states that he wants to test out the Mind Control serum so there wasn't any unexpected flaws. So they tried it out on Rockwell and Slash showing that it does need time to take effect...and then they tested it on Raph so they could test how it held up in a intense situation. That and of course the desire to bear witness to the Turtles falling at the hands of their brother and friends. And the unexpected flaw was that it heavy emotion causes the mind worm to lose it's hold on it's victim. So when they finally used it on Karai the serum had been doctored so that the effect is quicker and that it doesn't cave to intense emotion quite as easily.

The hype for this lies mostly with the fans...when we heard there was going to be an episode where Raph was brain washed. The show staff said loosely based on the Dark Leo arc in IDW and it was that...very loosely based. But the fan build up over it was that it was going to be bigger then it actually was.

Yes a moment where Raph feels distraught or down because he was being forced to attack his brothers. That could have been added in...but that is more or less left to fan speculation.

2. Mutants (Not) In Action- Oh yeah, mutants that never popped up outside that episode. Put aside any cameos the show did with a different Snakeweed with Creeping Doom and the Rockwell goblins with Mazes and Mutants and answer this, where are those mutants? Meet Mondo Gecko doesn't count as it appeals to fans with that massive love letter. When you remove these three episodes, none of them return barring Muckman and Mondo with the Mutanimals in Annihilation Earth. It's a bloody important point on where they are after the Kraang put them in juvenile detention. Again, what is the point you're trying to convey Cube?

With Harry Potter they didn't do all the plots such as SPEW because it's cost them 10,000+ every time a house elf was used. So if they had certain CGI characters or moments that didn't add anything to the story and don't fit the budget they cut them out of the movie all together.

The same is true here. Every single one of the back ground puppets we see in the show be they human, mutant, or animal also costs them money. Ciro has said they have a budget for one background set a day and these are back ground that would take at least a day to build. And every character they use even if it is just walking in the back ground adds to the budget.

So no we aren't going to see every mutant ever created on a regular basis. They are going to use whatever characters they can budget for each given episode.

3. Mutagen Man frozen- :roll: I directly said this, the only reason they didn't bring him back is because Roger Craig Smith is Sonic the Hedgehog; didn't Ciro state at one point "Mutagen Man will have a large role in season 2?" That role is reduced to cameos throughout the entire show, a plot line established midseason 1 and into the beginning of 2. Barring theories through headcanon and reviving an old school character again, why is this character ignored heavily outside Roger's disappearance? Besides, Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman had Kirby and Splinter focused on; Donnie didn't state he was going to cure him. That is an inconsistency if I ever saw one; though I'm aware Timothy is a hated character from the Nickverse, why build him up and never use him?

Yes Roger Craig Smith is a large part of why Mutagen Man hasn't been used. However large role in a season doesn't always mean the character themselves will have a large role in a season. But the character will have a degree of influence that impacts a season. And the impact he had was Donnie's need to create the retromutagen, and also the impact that it had on Donnie's character I.E. His pacifism and the conviction he has towards his friends and loved ones.

To compare this slightly to legend of Kora...In season three there is a group of characters who are hunting her down to destroy the Avatar cycle and restore the balance they believe should belong to the world. We don't have a lot of information on this group or their reason for being. But the experience she has at their hands really impacts Korra's life in the final season.

In Mutagen Man unleashed...Donnie didn't want to betray Timothy the way he did. And he even tells Timothy not to drink the mutagen he doctored up because he was still wanting to reach the foolish human boy he had befriended.

But beyond Donnie saying he would find a cure, the attitude towards Timmy has been "He'll get it next time....Karai needs this cure more...or the people of New York need it more." The first time Donnie had Retromutagen available was the only time they legitimately could have cured Timothy. Kirby because he was a much more urgent case, and Splinter because we hear him mourning his lost humanity at least couple of times over season one. The Turtles have more then likely heard that frequently over their whole lives. And it would be like Donnie to make a vow as a kid that if he ever found a way to restore mutations...Splinter would get it first. However Splinter does respond with the words "I'll think about it." This is a phrase that does roughly translate to "No" in Japan. So if the whole interference with Stockman, hadn't happened. Then yes Timothy would have been the default next candidate to be cured.

Given the time that has passed...I personally don't feel it is likely that Timothy would ever be cured.

victory_angel

01-22-2016, 12:24 AM

4. One offs- Pizza Face, a Squirrelnoid, and the wasps are around if you wanna go by Meet Mondo Gecko. The beavers, the Frogs, and the Chimera still exist; once more, where is Malachi? Filler is fine when it needs to be, but it's foolish to introduce these characters, give them an iconic name or interesting concept.

Malachi appeared int he recent episode. He was the shot with Tiger Claw in Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind. And Dave Beaver made and appearance as well. Pizza Face, Squirrelnoid, and the Wasps were mostly there to fill space in the crowd in that episode. The Dream Beavers were from another dimension and essentially left because when they were finally able to leave the dream realm they found they weren't all that threatening in the real world. So they left to go find another dimension they can conquer. The Punk Frogs went to Louisiana because they have family down there. And the Chimera the Turtles don't really know is still haunting the Farm House...that episode just ended with the Turtles and April assuming everything with the Chimera was done and over with and the last five seconds of the episode pretty much was a "guess again" moment. So should the Turtles return to the Farm House, we are likely to see the Chimera episode.

However the issue with most of these one off characters is that they are voiced by guest celebrities. Meaning Nick has to get in contact with them and arrange a contract with them that they would voice this one character in that one episode. If they use that character again they would need to draw up another contract, find another voice (in the case of Kraang Prime during Annihilation: Earth) or just not use a voice as all.

5. Mutanimals formation- That comic from what I saw is near noncanon for contradicting events previous in the Nick show. If it's not mentioned in the show, it doesn't exist as my rule of thumb. It's beyond stupid and is why I don't care for Battle for New York at all in comparison to everyone on here. The episode lazily threw four mutants who have a vendetta with the Kraang, three of which from previous incarnations of the Mutanimals or the ongoing IDW for Slash and Pigeon Pete.

Agree with you here...the Comics and Half-Shelled Heroes are more or less parallel universes based off the same incarnation. So yeah there are some connections you can make to the Nick Show...but mostly they are their own thing.

6. Kirby-Bat(man)- No, it is a serious conflict, one dragged out beyond it's welcome for Kirby in this series. With the exception of brief mentions from Mutagen Man Unleashed and Slash and Destroy where Donnie swears to make retromutagen, that plotline is dropped for no reason. With the exception of a brief mention in Of Rats and Men in Donatello's dialogue and Kirby's cameo in Metalhead Rewired, nothing is brought up of this issue. Then they shoehorn in a conclusion with Baxter's mutation episode and again conclude the second season with his mutation. That's..... brilliant. :roll: They essentially wasted an entire plot that held no meaning and didn't make it continuous, it's contrivance if I ever saw it again.

Again Kirby Bat was not included if the budget didn't account for him having a role in the episode. The main purpose of Kirby Bat was to light a fire under Donnie's Shell about discovering the Retromutagen. Even Wormquake served a purpose in that plot because up until that episode...Donnie has assumed the Mutagen was chemically based. Wormquake reveals the Mutagen comes from Giant Worms so that proved the Mutagen was organically based. And that changed Donnie's methods for discovering the Retromutagen.

7. It's raining.... mutagen- I've been to New York during eighth grade, I know how big it is; again do not put words in my mouth. The only mutant created by that canister rain is Mondo Gecko, otherwise the entire plot dropped immediately when season 2 reached the Karai-Splinter-Shredder conflict. If they aren't going to address that issue, well we have a problem. If the Turtles directly stated there was at 60 canisters, then at least one-third should have been collected.

Actually more mutants were made in that Rain...There was Kirby Bat, Squirrelanoid, Sir Malachi, Mondo Geko, Slash (counts because he was created by mutagen acquired by the Turtles from the Mutant Rain), Pizza Face, some of these canister were found by the Turtles. Other were implied to have been found by Stockman, Rat King, and Foot Clan.

victory_angel

01-22-2016, 12:27 AM

I asked Brandon Aumen if we'll see Mutagen Man again and he said "Maybe"

Maybe tends to translate to "I can't tell you specifically, but yeah we are likely to see that character."

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 01:26 AM

People whining about the random mutants baffles me the most. Its called, "recurring characters," people. If they included the mutants in every other episode you would get sick of seeing them.

DarkLightDragon

01-22-2016, 07:31 AM

People whining about the random mutants baffles me the most. Its called, "recurring characters," people. If they included the mutants in every other episode you would get sick of seeing them.

When writers insist on shoving mutants down my throat and trying to make me believe it's okay because most of them are either "new or creative" or "much-beloved" characters from previous iterations, you're sure as s*it I and some others have a right to "complain" with what has been a problem with the series since Day 1.

But no, you just see and read things from a blac and whit perspective and don't try to understand what people of the opposite opinion are saying. It's one of things that makes you so frustratingly amusing.

EDIT: And yay, cubedindenial is a tag now.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-22-2016, 08:40 AM

People whining about the random mutants baffles me the most. Its called, "recurring characters," people. If they included the mutants in every other episode you would get sick of seeing them.

Random does not equal recurring.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recurring
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/random

Groverman62

01-22-2016, 08:42 AM

Well yeah, I mean the show generally doesnt do much with its mutants aside from making one maybe two appearances. I know that they can probably afford only so many voice actors an episode, but still.

I would have love to see the non shredder mutants (Snakeweed Spider Bytez Rat King Newtralizer and Mutagen man, maybe Slash too form a group of villains, kind like Spider Man's Sinister Six)

The Happy One

01-22-2016, 09:59 AM

Personally, I think that this show just needs direction. I think this was metioned earlier but it's not the character, definitely not the animation and not even the overall tone either.
But, I think, what happens to this show is they need toys because toy sells carry shows for ages these days. And when shows need toys, shows constantly spew out new characters. So...really if this show could just have one single constant- I don't know- enemy or plot with every four eps or so with new one-shots, that'll be pretty cool.

Also...Leo is an awesome character- we get it. I adore Leo and commend the team tremendously for his development but...we have three other turtles- heck, even April and Casey (especially Casey) need some attention. And that's not to say, 'Oh, no other character gets attention' or anything...but every once and a while it'd be nice to see them really blossom in an arc.

But, y’know, I still thoroughly enjoy myself watching each episode and a vast majority of viewers do as well. There's just a few bugs for this show to work out as all.

And, really, I think all of this has kinda been an ongoing problem since about late season 1 or early season 2...it's just been dragged out for so long that it's becoming increasingly and a little agonizingly noticeable.

So, downhill? Nope. Just a bit sideways. But with this Mutant v. Human arc supposedly coming up at the end of this season, let's hope we get our first continuous, driven, multiple character developing arc!

Zak The Neutrino

01-22-2016, 10:34 AM

In the first ever stories about the turtles by the creators themselves by like the third dreaming issue, where do the turtles go!? They go to space. This has been part of the lore since the very beginning. So stop it.

Just because it's been there since the beginning doesn't mean it's good or that we all have to like it.

DarkLightDragon

01-22-2016, 12:01 PM

Just because it's been there since the beginning doesn't mean it's good or that we all have to like it.

Nor do we have to like how a space arc is done. 2k3's version of Turtles in Space is considered as being too long as it's big issue, so what's Nick's excuse when it suffers a similar fate? Or if it's focused more on space/alien/weird filler like the beginning of Season 3 with it's fascination with horror tropes and "tributes?" Are we just not going to comment on anything? If so, there's no point to this sub-forum.

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 12:25 PM

The space episodes have tons of variety so I don't see what you're complaining about. Some eps are classic sci-fi, others wacky, others Triceraton related, others horror related, etc.

Aaronardo

01-22-2016, 02:46 PM

The space episodes have tons of variety so I don't see what you're complaining about. Some eps are classic sci-fi, others wacky, others Triceraton related, others horror related, etc.

We're not complaining about variety. We're complaining about how badly these episodes are being executed. I seriously have no clue where the hell you pulled "variety" from.
(Oh, and thanks for the sig plastron :tgrin: )

plastroncafe

01-22-2016, 03:08 PM

Awww Bless!

I think my only real issue with the space stuff is how it doesn't emotionally tie into the previous seasons. And when I say this I'm really thinking about Casey's initial characterization.

But then...I had a similar issue with the NoHo stuff too. How they went from having everything they've ever known destroyed to...Yay Wacky Fun Adventure in no time flat. I'm sure it'll all play better in syndication, but as an episodic story it just feels wrong.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

01-22-2016, 04:28 PM

People only claim this show went downhill because they made their own headcanons and fanfiction in their minds years ago and the show didn't go in the direction they wanted it too.

You can say that about every TV-series, book series, film series, comic book series, video game series, theatre stageplays, musical, opera or whatever you're into.

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 05:03 PM

We're not complaining about variety. We're complaining about how badly these episodes are being executed. I seriously have no clue where the hell you pulled "variety" from.
(Oh, and thanks for the sig plastron :tgrin: )

What is wrong with the 6 eps that have aired so far? Two of them were intended be wacky filler, the Wyrm and Bellybomb ep, and the others have either pushed the plot forward or introduced recurring villains.

What on earth do you people want? Spell it out, because I can't comprehend it. The Turtles are on a quest to save the Earth, that's exactly what they're doing.

Its like you guys are complaining about not getting what's actually happening. I'm flabbergasted.

DarkLightDragon

01-22-2016, 05:24 PM

We have been spelling it out to you. You just don't like our answers.

GoldMutant

01-22-2016, 05:26 PM

What is wrong with the 6 eps that have aired so far? Two of them were intended be wacky filler, the Wyrm and Bellybomb ep, and the others have either pushed the plot forward or introduced recurring villains.

What on earth do you people want? Spell it out, because I can't comprehend it. The Turtles are on a quest to save the Earth, that's exactly what they're doing.

Its like you guys are complaining about not getting what's actually happening. I'm flabbergasted.

When it takes FOUR EPISODES out of the six to get to plot, that's a problem. Also doesn't help nothing of substance of story occurs; whether the pettiness of Dregg, the forced romance of Mona and Raph, and Armaggon being rather bland, it's stupid. Same with Northampton taking seven of it's eight episodes before getting to an actual plotline. However, if you want it spelled out then I'll say this:

We want the show to write an actually decent story!

How about you stop generalizing Cube and actually give examples rather than being a broken record? Dude, it's not that hard and you can't contribute worth a damn to the thread other than silence people. :roll:

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 05:31 PM

When it takes FOUR EPISODES out of the six to get to plot, that's a problem.

What on earth? They're spending at least 13 episodes on space give or take, two of them so far have been fun wacky filler. Are you saying the shows writers can't have fun?

Also doesn't help nothing of substance of story occurs; whether the pettiness of Dregg, the forced romance of Mona and Raph, and Armaggon being rather bland, it's stupid. Same with Northampton taking seven of it's eight episodes before getting to an actual plotline. However, if you want it spelled out then I'll say this:

Lord Dregg and Armaggon are main recurring villains of the space arc. I'm sure we'll see Mona Lisa too because she's part of that Salamander race which has been at war with the Triceratons. Most likely we'll have a huge alien race space war by the end of the arc.

We want the show to write an actually decent story!

It has a decent story. And I've explained exactly why.

You guys don't like Dregg, Armaggon, Mona Lisa is not a problem with the story.

plastroncafe

01-22-2016, 05:34 PM

You keep forgetting the "... for me." At the end of your sentences.

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 05:36 PM

Splinter the boss

01-22-2016, 05:54 PM

I am gonna have to agree with cybercubed here. Only 6 episodes have aired out of the 20 something. I don't get it, we get new villains, allies, and we get to know about other worlds. I agree the going back in time thing was silly the way they did it, but they had to do it somehow. Now we are going to have the turtles infiltrate the triceratons mother ship to get the fragment, plot is going perfectly ok.

DarkLightDragon

01-22-2016, 05:58 PM

I'm curious what people want out of the villains in this space arc then. Dregg is an alien warlord with a grudge against the Turtles, Armaggon is essentially a bounty hunter, Mona Lisa is part of a salamander warrior race, etc.

What exactly do people want?

A competently-told story. Yet people like yourself seem to either not get it or believe we're asking for Shakespeare-quality writing.

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 06:26 PM

A competently-told story. Yet people like yourself seem to either not get it or believe we're asking for Shakespeare-quality writing.

And how is this not a competently told story? They're on a cohesive narrative and sometimes get sidetracked by wacky aliens.

Xav

01-22-2016, 06:35 PM

Lord Dregg and Armaggon are main recurring villains of the space arc.Armaggon appeared in 1 episode how the heck is he a main recurring villain?

CyberCubed

01-22-2016, 06:40 PM

Armaggon appeared in 1 episode how the heck is he a main recurring villain?

Because he's tracking them as he said at the end of the episode. Armaggon appeared in Episode 4...only 6 episodes have aired.

cryan

01-22-2016, 06:49 PM

I don't think the show is going downhill, it's doing fine despite that they tend to take names of characters, and create something completely different with them, hence the Neutrinos, it's the only thing I have issues with, besides that the show has been great.

I too had trouble with the Neutrinos being micro robots as well. If I remember correctly the 2003 Turtles got zapped into space too. I am enjoying the series very well. Slow spots yes but if they can do better episodes then that's cool too.

Technogeek29

01-22-2016, 07:11 PM

While I don't think we needed another thread, I don't get why Cybercubed is so adamant in defending what is essentially someone's opinion. I don't think the show has gone down hill, I think it lacks focus at times and I don't care 2k12 Mikey.

Tarris Vaal

01-22-2016, 07:48 PM

Same - The show hasn't gone downhill, its just changed locales and tone. That wont be to everyone's tastes, but personally I enjoy the current season.

My only consistent complaint has been that I've always been left wanting to see more!
Another 10min per episode would have been great to flesh out all those character moments a lot of the Drome complains are rushed or glossed over.

Allio

01-22-2016, 07:50 PM

I definitely haven't felt much for the show since season 2

Papenbrook

01-24-2016, 09:54 AM

When it takes FOUR EPISODES out of the six to get to plot, that's a problem. Also doesn't help nothing of substance of story occurs; whether the pettiness of Dregg, the forced romance of Mona and Raph, and Armaggon being rather bland, it's stupid. Same with Northampton taking seven of it's eight episodes before getting to an actual plotline.

I have written about this before.

During this season of TMNT, there were two filler episodes BEFORE the turtles found the first piece of the black hole generator. This not only lessens the tension, but also allows more filler.

I think that is why the current "arc" is going to last thirteen episodes.

It's only for filler.

victory_angel

01-24-2016, 01:03 PM

Actually only the Wyrm episode was filler.

The Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind does tie into the current plot through Bellybombs talk with Dreg. And also the Turtles wanting the schematics for the Triceraton ship so they can infiltrate it and take back that piece of the Heart of Darkness.

Ninturtle

01-24-2016, 01:07 PM

And how is filler bad? It's what TMNT was built on.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-24-2016, 01:09 PM

And how is filler bad? It's what TMNT was built on.

Please explain. How is TMNT built on filler? Because from where a lot of us are sitting, that sounds absolutely ridiculous.

FlawedCoil82

01-24-2016, 01:14 PM

I can pretty much side with the majority. Loved Season 1, Season 2 was mostly good stuff. The first half of Season 3 was brutal, but the second half was better. So far, Season 4 hasn't done anything for me. I think the episode I remember most was with Wyrm. Ive said it many times before; I just do not enjoy "turtles in space" or seeing them battle "mutants of the week" and aliens. The episodes that always stand out for me are where they fight Shredder or The Foot or when Splinter gets in on the action. The longer the show goes on, the more I am hating Mikey and Casey. Mikey was amusing in early episodes but now his stupidity is becoming tiresome. And Casey is not much better. He is totally annoying me with all the "that is so metal!!" lines. I hope the series starts grabbing my attention again soon.

Powder

01-24-2016, 01:49 PM

Please explain. How is TMNT built on filler? Because from where a lot of us are sitting, that sounds absolutely ridiculous.

The term "filler" is thrown around carelessly these days. All these fan-fiction fanatics seem to think that any episode which contributes nothing to the overall plot is "filler". That would make episodes of the 4kids series like Sons Of The Silent Age filler. Is that fair? Nope. Ninturtle's point is one I've made a lot lately, that standalone stories (i.e. 'filler' :trolleye:) are the dominating kind of turtle tale. The OT is mostly a bunch of one shots, Mirage is a mostly bunch of one shots, etc. Nick's entitled to do it, too, if they so desire.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-24-2016, 02:15 PM

The term "filler" is thrown around carelessly these days. All these fan-fiction fanatics seem to think that any episode which contributes nothing to the overall plot is "filler". That would make episodes of the 4kids series like Sons Of The Silent Age filler. Is that fair? Nope. Ninturtle's point is one I've made a lot lately, that standalone stories (i.e. 'filler' :trolleye:) are the dominating kind of turtle tale. The OT is mostly a bunch of one shots, Mirage is a mostly bunch of one shots, etc. Nick's entitled to do it, too, if they so desire.

There are stand-alone stories that contribute meaningfully to a character's development or understanding, and then there are bubble-gum filler stories. The two definitely should not be confused. But I do agree that Nick seems to have a lot of filler that doesn't seem to contribute meaningfully to either story arc or character.

Powder

01-24-2016, 02:27 PM

& there are those of us who don't see that as a bad thing. People are all about this "No fun allowed" stuff lately.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-24-2016, 02:31 PM

& there are those of us who don't see that as a bad thing. People are all about this "No fun allowed" stuff lately.

Well, in critics' defense, Nick seems to be trying to have their cake and eat it too, which is resulting in a lot of storylines that get started with a lot of promise, then meander, and then just kinda... fade... away...

DarkLightDragon

01-24-2016, 02:33 PM

& there are those of us who don't see that as a bad thing. People are all about this "No fun allowed" stuff lately.

Hooray for generalizing.

Cybercubed's got some competition right now.

Powder

01-24-2016, 02:35 PM

People is a vague term, one that can mean as few as 2. Don't get your knickers in a twist, kiddo.

Turnstone

01-24-2016, 02:50 PM

This season has been the slowest so far. I realize it's a kid's show but sometimes it seems too dark to be just that. Less monsters, more action and more ninja.

Ninturtle

01-24-2016, 03:11 PM

There are stand-alone stories that contribute meaningfully to a character's development or understanding, and then there are bubble-gum filler stories. The two definitely should not be confused. But I do agree that Nick seems to have a lot of filler that doesn't seem to contribute meaningfully to either story arc or character.

I guess I was confusing filler and stand alone stories, but I still enjoy filler. It gives the show a slice of life feel that's in the mirage comics.

CyberCubed

01-24-2016, 05:04 PM

This season has been the slowest so far. I realize it's a kid's show but sometimes it seems too dark to be just that. Less monsters, more action and more ninja.

Slowest? There have been two fillers out of 7 episodes.

I think what you people fail to realize is the space arc IS half this season. This isn't meant to be some opener like Northampton was in Season 3....we're spending 13 episodes in space.

Half of Season 4 is the space arc, being in space isn't "filler" because this is the main plotline.

thundermaster612

01-24-2016, 05:49 PM

nope, I don't think its going downhill. It is becoming more violent and it's actually creating new characters rather than reusing old ones (ex: Xeno the triceraton warrior, I expected him to be Traximus) season 4 in interesting in my terms.

Electric

01-24-2016, 07:56 PM

I definitely don't think it's going downhill, but I do feel it's different. Maybe it's just me, but I feel a lot of episodes are a little more rushed??? I guess, maybe it's just that they've got even more going on than the first couple seasons. But they're still doing great, expanding on characters, and have some great storylines.

Fishface

01-26-2016, 06:17 AM

The show is offensive because of a fat Mikey? Get off the internet, maybe you'll gain common sense.

Yeah that's like having a Short Shredder, tall Fishface or a Fat April and saying that's offensive!

miru

04-08-2016, 07:34 PM

If anything, this series has had a rebound after the deplorable Northampton arc. The current stuff isn't as good as the first season, though.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 07:40 PM

The Northampton arc was like...7 episodes.

GoldMutant

04-08-2016, 07:58 PM

The Northampton arc was like...7 episodes.

It's eight, technically 8 1/3 if you wanna count Return to New York's beginning.

I will admit in terms of fun, they're better in comparison to before. However, in terms of story there's not too much done except for Within the Woods, Vision Quest and if you wanna make a case, then Buried Secrets additionally. Considering the stakes in New York from a story point of view, the world would be entirely mutated but wasn't. The overall pacing of the arc really isn't that good; outside horror references and bringing in classic voices such as Robert Englund, John Kassir, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, etc. the arc should have been condensed. I'm all for light hearted material personally, but it's primarily a season killer outside a change in writing.

Chopperface

04-19-2016, 09:15 AM

The farm arc really did only have like two episodes that really contributed to the arc at hand. There wasn't much of an arc anyway. Leo's recovery was shunted to the background. There wasn't a single mention of Splinter, Kirby, Leatherhead, or literally anything from New York until Vision Quest. Hell April only mentions Kirby for the first time at the beginning of Return to New York when she suddenly remembers him. And when we do get back to New York, almost nothing has changed. Karai is still on the run, Splinter is still MIA, and the Kraang have made no progress in their invasion since taking New York despite the finale strongly implying that the invasion was going to continue.

The farm arc feels like the show wanted to take a nap after The Invasion. Kinda like how someone wants to turn their brain off after a long work week on the weekends. The show suddenly remembering Leo's recovery and New York during Vision Quest felt like waking up and remembering you've gotta do stuff.

I think the show has gotten too silly, too bizarre. And more often than not, since there are still dark episodes like Annihilation: Earth. That's certainly not to say there can't be any humor or fun, but frankly the show feels like it doesn't want to take itself seriously. Usually at the end of an episode, even a serious one, we get some cheesy lighthearted moment with Mikey. At the end of "Tale of the Yokai", Mikey just cracks some jokes after witnessing the death of Tang Shen and the destruction of Splinter's past life.

The franchise is goofy and ridiculous to start with. But the reason people are more enthusiastic about the OOTS movie coming is because the movie is finally taking itself seriously as a TMNT movie, embracing the cheesy goodness of the source material. Why can't this show take itself seriously? It's like they're afraid to have mature, legitimate arcs - but in an era where pretty much any action cartoon that has long arcs gets axed early, maybe this is intentional, avoiding plots.

Anyway, I think the show has become too goofy for its' own good. The 80's show was also goofy, but it never made promises for legitimate arcs like this show does. Hell even Fast Forward had better focus on its' arcs. If the show wants to do just plain filler, then do it and stop pretending they want to do anything else; they've been dangling the Karai plot for almost two years with zero progression making every episode about her into filler since nothing gets done. Other arcs get wrapped up quickly like the invasion which was literally only focused on in S3 for the same episode it was resolved. Then we go back to wacky side episodes.

It's like The Walking Dead - it'll do a string of really great episodes, and then come down to lame, forgettable episodes, before getting great again. 2003 stayed consistently "good" at the worst for most of its' pre-Fast Forward run.

neatoman

04-19-2016, 10:08 AM

It's eight, technically 8 1/3 if you wanna count Return to New York's beginning.

I will admit in terms of fun, they're better in comparison to before. However, in terms of story there's not too much done except for Within the Woods, Vision Quest and if you wanna make a case, then Buried Secrets additionally. Considering the stakes in New York from a story point of view, the world would be entirely mutated but wasn't. The overall pacing of the arc really isn't that good; outside horror references and bringing in classic voices such as Robert Englund, John Kassir, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, etc. the arc should have been condensed. I'm all for light hearted material personally, but it's primarily a season killer outside a change in writing.

Not to mention the fact that because it went on for such a long time and was pretty much followed up right away wtih a two-parter introducing Bebop and Rocksteady, the Battle for New York two parter felt kind of rushed.

CyberCubed

04-19-2016, 12:40 PM

This show was always intended to be a comedy from day 1. Its an action comedy.

neatoman

04-19-2016, 01:50 PM

This show was always intended to be a comedy from day 1. Its an action comedy.

Because a teenage girl getting her brain pumped full worms so she can be manipulated into commiting patricide is so hilarious...
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a5/Vlcsnap-2015-09-09-21h13m27s022.png/revision/latest?cb=20160322061933

Powder

04-19-2016, 01:53 PM

That's the 'action' part, bud.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

04-19-2016, 01:53 PM

Because a teenage girl getting her brain pumped full worms so she can be manipulated into commiting patricide is so hilarious...
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a5/Vlcsnap-2015-09-09-21h13m27s022.png/revision/latest?cb=20160322061933

I'm a sociopath and I found it hilarious.

CyberCubed

04-19-2016, 01:57 PM

To be honest a lot of the stuff that happens in this isn't for kids. The writers are all horror/torture fans and some of the stuff they did kids shows in the 90's would never do.

Powder

04-19-2016, 02:01 PM

Viacom is a funny animal, in that respect. They let IDW/Nick/PD get away with this, but not that, there's no real consistency in terms of what's okay & what is isn't, except perhaps murder & sensitive religious ideology/symbolism. Michelangelo can make a literal boner joke in the movie but not wack someone in the head with his nun-chucks. IDW characters can do a beheading but not say "sh*t". Nick's got ass shots, body horror, & impalement, but they frown upon the words death/dying/dead being used :tlol:

CyberCubed

04-19-2016, 02:05 PM

sdp

04-19-2016, 02:11 PM

While I haven't watched this season I hate when people use the term filler when the plot doesn't go forward in an episode. These episodes can have great stories or character moments, just because the ongoing plot (which may be terrible) didn't continue doesn't mean the episode sucks and the term filler when used implies that its not worth watching. IIRC the term was first used in anime since there you do have plenty of episodes that don't move the plot forward and can be generic plots but would you call BTAS all filler because of that? When the episode is boring then yeah call it "filler" but don't call it that just because the plot didn't move on, I saw plenty of people call the crossover with the OT as "just" a filler episode and yet I bet it was better than a "non-filler" episode from that same season.

neatoman

04-19-2016, 02:30 PM

Yeah, it reminds me of what the 2k3 series would get away with while at the same time 4kids would censor the anime they were dubbing. You had Bishop being impaled on by a hook, Shredder impaling Splinter, Mikey pulling the grenade on a Triceraton and him blowing up off screen, Leonardo getting stabbed by Karai, etc.

Meanwhile at the same time 4kids was butchering One Piece, Yu-gi-oh, and all the other anime they were dubbing at the same time removing all the violence, mention of death, blood, etc. It was oddly hilarious.

With exception of rather extreme stuff like "turn harpoons into plungers"...

Seriously, how are plungers effective weapons? Wasn't there anything better they could have replaced harpoons with?
http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Oh+no+its+poison+suction+cups+_301440953cab6e16b87 4074534551bc9.jpg

...The most bizarre edits 4Kids made were their strange obsession with removing rice balls, like little kids wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around that concept. Rice in the shape of a ball, foreign but easy to understand.

Speaking of which, how about the inconsistency about what did and didn't get changed? Why were names like "Seto Kaiba" and "Ryo Bakura" just fine but names like "Anzu Mazaki" and "Hiroto Honda" weren't? They're in the same show for Christ's sake!

Papenbrook

04-19-2016, 03:07 PM

Nick's got ass shots, body horror, & impalement, but they frown upon the words death/dying/dead being used :tlol:

To be fair, Nickelodeon/Viacom does that with their other kid-friendly shows.

ABrown

04-19-2016, 03:48 PM

This show was always intended to be a comedy from day 1. Its an action comedy.

It's a shame then that it fails it both.

Powder

04-19-2016, 06:06 PM

To be fair, Nickelodeon/Viacom does that with their other kid-friendly shows.

Of course they do, I'm just saying their selectivity is a bit odd.

Lil Karai

04-20-2016, 10:02 PM

Season 4 is a drastic improvement from season 3 in my opinion. So no, I think it is going uphill!

ABrown

04-22-2016, 12:59 PM

srmff

04-22-2016, 05:05 PM

I'm contemplating just going ahead and giving up on this show after the fourth season. It's just really stupid for me to keep watching watching all of these episodes when I'm not really enjoying them, only because I'm curious to see what Nickelodeon is going to do with the characters and the franchise.

Fair enough. I was waiting for that to happen since you only ever complain about the show. It's really not a big deal. You don't have to force yourself to watch it. I understand the curiosity but if you really wanted to find out what they do, you could wait until the show finishes and then watch it or just read the episode descriptions online instead of watching it.

CyberCubed

04-22-2016, 05:16 PM

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.

FredWolfLeonardo

04-22-2016, 05:59 PM

I don't think this show has gone downhill. Infact, I thought that season 2 was overall better than season 1 and that the space arc was quite an improvement over the farm episodes in season 3. Overall though, I think the Nick show has been very well done the whole way through.

LeotheLateBloomer

04-22-2016, 06:20 PM

I thought that season 2 was overall better than season 1 and that the space arc was quite an improvement over the farm episodes in season 3.

While I fully agree with this, much like the farm house episodes, the space episodes are really starting to run their course.

shredder orokusaki

04-23-2016, 01:52 AM

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.

What show that has young kids as target has killings or so much violence? No one. And most of us here are in our 30's anyway but we were kids when the 87 show started.

victory_angel

04-23-2016, 04:25 AM

I don't think to the show is going downhill, it's more as though it is having a hard time keeping its balance and the fact it is on a kids network does hurt the series.

With the case of most fandoms that have a reboot, there are going to be fans who winge at the very idea or concept of a new version because it changes up what they knew, loved, and remembered the series as.

Think of the TMNT fandom in generations.

The first generation of the TMNT fandom would have been the original Mirage Comics. While comics at the time were still seen as kids stuff, there was still a burgeoning market towards adults. The mirage version sparked the concept of the fandom, but mostly hit a Neish group.

The OT sparked the second wave of the first generation. As it really helped introduce TMNT to a much wider audience and really helped market the series to the 30-year juggernaut it is today. This generation also comprises the Archie Comics, and 90's movie.

The 2k3 series is the second generation of the fandom. 4 Kids has always been an iffy company, particularly with their dubs of Japanese anime. It's literally in their title, they are 4 Kids...because they are marketing 'for kids'. As such they are wanting to keep things as close to the concept, but they want don't want to make it too violent or promote violence which is why you see cork guns instead of real guns in One Piece. Or concepts such as such and such character was obviously killed, but they would use the term captured instead.

The 2K3 series in itself was one of the darker properties it has made. And while it does try to push its limits with having literal and implied character deaths on and off screen and serious injuries. Or references to things more grown up and Neish viewers would recognize. Such as that one episode that had that kid who enjoyed the televised version of the gekiga series 'Lone Wolf and Cub' and even the episode's title was a play on that title. At the same time, it was also particularly easy to tell where they were forced to reign things in or drop plots for time or because they were viewed as becoming too dark and emotional for their target audience.

This leads us to the third generation. The Nick series. By and Large, the nick series was written, animated, and produced by people who are familiar with the series. And as such they do try to bring aspects, nods, and references to the other variations of the series as well as other properties. And many of these references are meant as nods to the older fans who would obviously watch this series. But at the same time, they still want to tell their version of the series. This is where the problem lies, though. The constant references and plays off of other properties does hurt the series giving it a disjointed story. And while they want to make it open enough for someone come in on any episode and not feel completely out of the loop as far as story. The lack of consistency does cause they story they are trying to convey to suffer.
And while it is dark at times, this series can't do everything it wants to do because it has to maintain itself as a kid-friendly property.

The stories the episode wants to tell are heavily hurt by the 22-minute time frame. And this can't be solved by simply not putting too much stuff, in the episode. Because the world that TMNT offers is too detailed and as such moments and details have to be left implied or up to viewer imagination in order to fit the time frame. Which sadly does leave the story feeling rushed, but yet if they had cut the moments with April and Casey getting the piece of the heart of darkness. Fans would have said "Why didn't they bother getting that piece of the BHG? Wasn't that the point of infiltrating the Triceraton mother ship?" And if it was possible to simplify the story, the fandom would say that they were being too cautious with the episode when more could be done with it.

I do love and enjoy this version of the series, but that doesn't mean I don't have my own problems with the presentation. It's easier to absorb and enjoy it when one focuses on what it is trying to be vs. what it isn't. And to also understand that this isn't the last word in the fandom, it's just simply another version to this amazing series. So even if this version just really isn't your cup of tea. This series has been around 30 years and if anything it will be around for the next 30, maybe beyond...perhaps the next vision could be yours.

ABrown

04-23-2016, 09:37 AM

Fair enough. I was waiting for that to happen since you only ever complain about the show. It's really not a big deal. You don't have to force yourself to watch it. I understand the curiosity but if you really wanted to find out what they do, you could wait until the show finishes and then watch it or just read the episode descriptions online instead of watching it.

Well in keeping with the topic of the thread, I didn't feel this way during the first couple of seasons. It's only during seasons three and four that I've found watching the show to be far less enjoyable.

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.

For whatever it's worth, being a full grown adult didn't stop me from loving the 4Kids series and considering it to be the best TMNT show.

Metalwolf

04-23-2016, 11:05 AM

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.
Maybe since the ratings are dropping for this show, it might not be just the adults that are losing interest. I think this show has strayed too far from it's original context, the Splinter/Shredder/Turtles rivalry, and making the ultra wacky adventures and tons of mutants the main centerpiece. It might be fine in small doses, but you can't have too much of that without people starting to get bored and lose interest.

Besides, if I was this show's main 'target audience,' I probably would have tuned out by now, because I would be a bit older and probably hoping for a show that feels more 'grown up.' Jumping all over the place might be fine if you have the attention span of a goldfish, but doesn't do much when you are an older kid who might want a bit more substance to his Turtles.

Aaronardo

04-23-2016, 04:15 PM

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.

You're not the target audience for the show either and you're defending this show until you f*cking die.

CyberCubed

04-23-2016, 04:46 PM

You're not the target audience for the show either and you're defending this show until you f*cking die.

Unless the show really does get bad or do something truly jump the shark worthy, of course I'll defend if it remains similar to as it is now for the rest of its run.

BabyTurtles

04-23-2016, 09:09 PM

ABrown is also 34 years old according to his profile, he's more than double the target audience for this show which is young kids.

I'm not Transformer Rescue Bots target audience and I think its much much better than this show. (seriously...its actually pretty cool~)

along with alot of kids cartoons....

I think if you are watching cartoons theres a level of leeway we as adults automatically give it....so unless you just don't enjoy cartoons...I don't see how not being the target audience is a problem.

ssjup81

04-23-2016, 10:48 PM

I'm not Transformer Rescue Bots target audience and I think its much much better than this show. (seriously...its actually pretty cool~)

along with alot of kids cartoons....

I think if you are watching cartoons theres a level of leeway we as adults automatically give it....so unless you just don't enjoy cartoons...I don't see how not being the target audience is a problem.I could see not being part of the target audience the problem. Some may find some things annoying about it that most younger viewers (or its core target audience) wouldn't.

I like this version of the turtles personally because of the throwbacks to retro things in general...like the Gremlins and the WWF and my god, the rip off old Chuck Norris Karate Commandos/Mr. T cartoon, etc. I like stuff like that because I find it funny. I guess it's the humor I like that keeps me watching...as well as curiosity of how they'll deal with certain storylines. As I've said before, I like all four turtles for this and their interactions with one another as they really feel sibling like.

I think if I took this show seriously, which I can't anyway with anything that's animated and aimed at kids (that's just me), I probably would find it tiresome. I'm more critical of live-action stuff and printed material.

BabyTurtles

04-24-2016, 02:43 AM

I could see not being part of the target audience the problem. Some may find some things annoying about it that most younger viewers (or its core target audience) wouldn't.

I like this version of the turtles personally because of the throwbacks to retro things in general...like the Gremlins and the WWF and my god, the rip off old Chuck Norris Karate Commandos/Mr. T cartoon, etc. I like stuff like that because I find it funny. I guess it's the humor I like that keeps me watching...as well as curiosity of how they'll deal with certain storylines. As I've said before, I like all four turtles for this and their interactions with one another as they really feel sibling like.

I think if I took this show seriously, which I can't anyway with anything that's animated and aimed at kids (that's just me), I probably would find it tiresome. I'm more critical of live-action stuff and printed material.

I still don't think thats a good reason for a show to be excused from being bad.

I like pretty silly kids shows but I just don't like this TMNT anymore. I liked it at first! so obviously its not the whole show but I think it went off track.

Even as a kid there were some shows that grabbed my attention and others I just forgot about. Avatar for example that show started when I was about 12....and I was engaged the whole time even when it went on a hiatus I still was excited for it. Same with Xiaolin Showdown but a show like.....Loonatics unleashed.....was dumb to me. :ohwell:

ssjup81

04-24-2016, 03:59 AM

I still don't think thats a good reason for a show to be excused from being bad.

I like pretty silly kids shows but I just don't like this TMNT anymore. I liked it at first! so obviously its not the whole show but I think it went off track.

Even as a kid there were some shows that grabbed my attention and others I just forgot about. Avatar for example that show started when I was about 12....and I was engaged the whole time even when it went on a hiatus I still was excited for it. Same with Xiaolin Showdown but a show like.....Loonatics unleashed.....was dumb to me. :ohwell:I was a kid during the 80s. Most of what I saw was episodic in nature. Ongoing storylines be darned. Stuff like that was reserved to books and live-action programs aimed at an older audience. Most programs back then and before it, were set up so that if a child missed an episode, they could still tune in without worrying about having missed anything important since it wasn't like you could just jump online to catch yourself up. Most episodes were self-contained. Even Batman TAS didn't have an ongoing storyline and was episodic, and that was the early 90s. I still enjoyed it, though. Ironically, I couldn't get into Superman TAS. No idea why. It was okay, but not enough to hold my attention. I wouldn't say it was bad...just didn't hold my interest. I guess I just couldn't find the characters interesting enough to keep me watching.

The only thing I truly did dislike as a child were shows that didn't get a proper ending when it was clearly set up for it to have one. Disney's Adventures of the Gummi Bears comes to mind for me. I loved that show. I had no problem with the whole series kind of only sometimes bringing up the premise from the beginning, as Zummi and the others were left behind or whatever for the return of the other Gummi bears. The show ended without completing that storyline, even though they were obviously going back to it towards the series' end and they did happen to meet Augustus "Gusto" Gummi after a while, which was a character that I wish had shown up more since I liked his character so much....ironically he was voiced by Rob Paulsen. lol

For the most part, I enjoyed most of what I watched and watched it all the way through (I'm referring to animated stuff, though aimed at kids when I was one), if possible. The OT, I couldn't because after the syndicated stuff and then being moved to CBS and then Saturday morn shows being fazed out, and CBS, in my area, being one of the first to start dropping its programming, it wasn't possible.

I guess what I'm saying is that my expectations are lower because I grew up in the 80s. In the case of this show, I think it is mostly nostalgia that's keeping me here. Like I said earlier, I love the throwbacks to older things this show does and get a kick out of it. I can't help but grin like an idiot when they're watching those throwback shows within this show's universe. I know one of the more recent eps had a throwback to the first NES Turtles game.

The bottom line is that stuff like this will always be subjective. I just don't find much wrong with this show to the point that I'd stop watching it. Can't say it's flawless...nothing is, but...the characters and the throwbacks are what's keeping me here, more than likely.