Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 8:The War for Dimension X

[victory_angel]

And here we are at episode 8 of this 13 episode arc to go. This leaves us at least five more episodes to go or possibly three episodes and one two part episode.

In this episode the Turtles must face the Utrom Counsel and gain their trust in order to find the next piece of the Heart of Darkness.


https://45.media.tumblr.com/2526160ca4c1215c44a11d7f0f3632c6/tumblr_o1okt4AZAS1r2nvplo7_400.gif

And we see the return of Mona Lisa and Sal Commander.

The last episode did bring up a few questions about the Fugitoid such as "What is Honey Cutt's connection to the Utroms?" and "What is his involvement with the Heart of Darkness?"

Hopefully we will receive some answers.

[Commenter 42]

I'm out of the loop - when should we expect the crossover with the FW series?

[CyberCubed]

I'm out of the loop - when should we expect the crossover with the FW series?

After the space arc ends. The space arc is around 12-13 eps.

[Commenter 42]

5 more eps?

bah... humbug.

[Powder]

Mid to late March, episode 13, I believe.

[TigerClaw]

Looking forward to this episode, It will be fun seeing Mona Lisa back. :)

[Shark_Blade]

I hope we get to see Mona Lisa in a different costume. Maybe get rid of her spacesuit?

[Vicky82]

It's up on ITunes now.

Thanks to Tumbr, I've just seen a spoiler.

Raph and Mona Lisa kiss twice and it's on screen :D :thyper: :thyper:

[Penst0ck]

I just watched it on iTunes.

All I gotta say is prepare for an overload.

Of everything…

[saintsaucey]

I'm out of the loop - when should we expect the crossover with the FW series?

What does fw stand for?

[Etsyturtle2]

I'm crying about the post above me.

FW-Fred Wolf

[saintsaucey]

I'm crying about the post above me.

FW-Fred Wolf
Sorry. It honestly didnt occur to me.

[Utrommaniac]

What does fw stand for?

Fred Wolf; the 87 cartoon.

Is there an official live stream anywhere where I can watch?

[Etsyturtle2]

Sorry. It honestly didnt occur to me.

It's okay. Sorry I I seemed rude.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Very clever references to Chess.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Well, it seems like the negotiations were short lived.

[saintsaucey]

Finally a good episode.

[GoldMutant]

I don't know if I should laugh at the silliness of French Kraang.... I mean Utrom or just be confused at the stupidity.

[Foombamaroom]

Jesus, Sub-Prime's dialogue is atrocious. It sounds like it was written by a 5 year old.

[GoldMutant]

Well, should have figured my expectations were not that great. The episode is a step back from last week, it feels like Attack of the Mega Shredder and Creeping Doom all over again. In other words, a solid episode that was among the best of the season personally, now an episode that's lackluster. :ohwell:

[saintsaucey]

Well, should have figured my expectations were not that great. The episode is a step back from last week, it feels like Attack of the Mega Shredder and Creeping Doom all over again. In other words, a solid episode that was among the best of the season personally, now an episode that's lackluster. :ohwell:

Seriously? Last week's episode sucked and was so cliche. The opening training session was the only good thing. This episode is completely fresh material.

[GoldMutant]

Seriously? Last week's episode sucked and was so cliche. The opening training session was the only good thing. This episode is completely fresh material.

Yeah, with dialogue of Subprime written by a five year old? This week is almost extremely weak.

[Sabacooza]

Mona and Raph. Gag! Yep, way to butcher Raph again with all the smootchie wootchie nonsense.

[Ninturtle]

Raph and Moas romance is so cringe worthy.

[TurFlytle]

So, my theory about the Kraang and Utrom was right. "Kraang" is a mix of Ch'rell and Krang that mutated into Kraang Prime.

[Vicky82]

Wow what an awesome episode, we had the return of Mona Lisa, Sal Commander, Kraang Sub Prime, Bishop and new characters The Utroms Irma (Pawn I think) , Mrs Campbell (Queen)and a French Kranng (Rook I think). Learned more about the Utrom/Kraang history.

Dat Raph and Mona Kiss x3 :tlove::thyper::tlove::thyper:

First on sceen kiss too

Mikey was also awesome.

[xenopokemon]

The romance, if you can even call it that, detracted from the episode's overall quality, but the fight scenes were good to watch and nice to see the backstory of the Utrom and Kraang. My boy Keith David putting in the work for Sal Commander :) now if we could just see Newtralizer..

[Aaronardo]

Raph and Moas romance is so cringe worthy.

Yeah, someone needs to point out to this show's writers what "romance" actually is.

I honestly liked this episode, though, barring some of Sub-Prime's dialogue and the god-awful romance, we did get some interesting insight about the Kraang and the Utrom, some admittedly good jokes, and Mikey wasn't total useless extra weight. Not as good as last week, but as far as Season 4 episodes go, this one seems to be a sign of the show pulling itself out of its slump.

[saintsaucey]

The krang dialogue is always clunky that is what makes them funny. And heaven forbid ralph show any side of him self but anger.

This episode was easily the best of the season so far. There were several moments where I screamed at the tv in horror.

[pannoni1]

I don't get the hate as this is one of the best episodes of the season! We got to hear the background story of both the Utroms and the Kraang (led by Krang himself), some cool references from Mike as always, and even some sad moments via a couple of Utrom Council deaths, including a beheading by the Irma look-alike, Pawn. :cry:

But the reappearance of Mona, having a two pair episode, and a good ending that lays out the framework for the next several episodes (even with some of the retreating Kraang defeated), this was a pretty well done episode. As silly as Raph can be, we still get a nice way for youngins to understand the concept of how a black hole works courtesy of Don. It was also funny to see Sal Commander not understand the difference between an Utrom and Krang like some casuals still do.

Show Grade: 8.5/10

[The Happy One]

Well that was...um...good?

Gosh, I never actually cringed this much since A Foot Too Big! I mean, the episode was action-packed and it sure was nice to see the Utrom Council and hiw wel they implemented the chess pieces but...I guess, for me, everything felt a bit forced . .?? Like how many times were Raph and Mona going to kiss:ohwell:

Savage Mikey was...well, useful, I guess. It was just...something was missing. Like, Don literally had five lines and there are only so many times you can use Sub-prime and...Raph and Mona:tconfuse:

They were cute...and it was alright when Raph broke the thing to rescue her...but after that...meh.

I guess the best thing about this episode was the action, the amazing animation and the Utrom Council.

[Ninturtle]

The krang dialogue is always clunky that is what makes them funny. And heaven forbid ralph show any side of him self but anger.

This episode was easily the best of the season so far. There were several moments where I screamed at the tv in horror.

Raph can show other emotions it just doesn't have to be so clunky an unbelievable. And Sub Primes dialogue wasn't funny, just annoying and made him unlikable.

[Vicky82]

Mona and Raph. Gag! Yep, way to butcher Raph again with all the smootchie wootchie nonsense.

So your saying Raph is not allowed to kiss someone :ohwell:

Must be just the girls who the love the romance.

[Ninturtle]

So your saying Raph is not allowed to kiss someone :ohwell:

Must be just the girls who the love romantic thing.
Nobody would mind the romance if it wasn't incredibly forced and rushed.

[Vicky82]

Nobody would mind the romance if it wasn't incredibly forced and rushed.

It didn't feel forced or rushed to me.

To me me it was the most adorable thing ever.

[xenopokemon]

It didn't feel forced or rushed to me.

I understand what you are trying to say, Raphalisa was established in, oh y'know ONE EPISODE, and now they are all lovey dovey must-make-out-every-11-seconds.

[cookie jar]

Interesting backstory of both the Kraang and the Utroms. It was an okay episode.

[Aaronardo]

So your saying Raph is not allowed to kiss someone :ohwell:

Must be just the girls who the love the romance.

That's not what anyone's saying. But every time Raph and Mona kissed this episode, it was either ridiculous or unneeded, except for the very end. It seems like their entire relationship is just kissing, with neither actually, you know, loving the other for who they are.

But it's a nitpick that does detract from the overall quality of the episode, but some people are blowing it up a bit too much, as each of the four times (I believe) it happens, it's only on-screen for a couple of seconds.

[Vicky82]

We got possibly 5 episodes left of the space arc and after that we probably won't be seeing Mona Lisa again.

If it was 2 main characters having a romance and that was forced and rushed I can understand but not with a minor character who's only in it for a few episodes.

[NinjaPug]

I liked how they gave us the history of Kranng Prime breaking away from the Utroms. The rest of the episode was pretty average.

The Raph / Mona stuff was unbearable.

[The Happy One]

So your saying Raph is not allowed to kiss someone :ohwell:

Must be just the girls who the love the romance.


Well, it wasn't that, for me...it was just...odd. Maybe it was the way they wrote it or because you only have so much time in one episode to convey emotion but...

Usually, when you think of Raph- in love- you'd picture he'd be slick, y'know...make snarky comments and whatnot...all at once while conveying his admiration for her. With this...I'm not feeling it. :ohwell:

It just felt like 'erm, I dunno what to really say so let's just kiss'.

I personally don't mind Raph liking anyone or displaying love but I'd rather see them talk...get to know each other and kick but side by side (which they kinda did) than just kiss at any given moment. It just felt like typical surface stuff...:ohwell:
But maybe that's just me...??

[snake]

Alright episode. I enjoyed the fight between Bishop and Sub Prime a lot. Seeing the council was interesting but I wish they gave some background on the miss campbell thing. I forgot Donatello was in this episode up until the end honestly.

[OrangeNinja1987]

I understand what you are trying to say, Raphalisa was established in, oh y'know ONE EPISODE, and now they are all lovey dovey must-make-out-every-11-seconds.

You know that's actual teenage romance, right? In that way, it feels very real.
Anyway, great episode. This and the last and definitely my favorites of the season. All around awesome.
I still don't like the voice of KSP. I know it's a famous voice actor but it hurts. It hurts...so much...
That French Utrom. Is it a metaphor...? :lol:
Episode score: 8.5/10

[Aaronardo]

You know that's actual teenage romance, right? In that way, it feels very real.

Correction: that's actual jock/cheerleader teenage romance, which is a minority compared to the rest.

[Powder]

You know that's actual teenage romance, right? In that way, it feels very real.


This. They're very much teens/pre-teens in this universe, & having been part of a 14 (?) year sewer sausage party, these guys aren't gonna know much about the mechanics of a romantic relationship, not in full anyway, & especially not Raphael, who is the least in touch with his feelings. While I agree the whole thing feels forced, it's stupid to say "WAAAHH! ALL THEY DO IS KISS, THIS IS SO UNREALISTIC!". Y'all never had a high school fling, eh? :tlol:

Anywaysssssssss...

Best episode of the season, by far. So many awesome presences. Action, backstory, plot progression, returning characters, hits all the right points. & anything with KSP is an automatic win. I love that the Utrom have white membranes & blue lasers for "good guy colors". :trazz:

[GoldMutant]

Put this episode around the bottom of the season for me personally. Honestly, this is the one time in the show I can't say if I hate it, or if it's average at best. However, I talk as honest as I possibly can, so let's just get this over with until the prolonged hiatus again.

Is there good? Yes; in comparison to say The Moons of Thalos 3 or even The Croaking where I felt bored and angry, there was some decent concepts. The origin of the Utroms is fleshed out, but I wish we could get an actual flashback, not a hologram. Just feels like it's there at best, but it wasn't bad. As for the action, well the so-called "war" was like previous episodes, a misleading title that doesn't occur until the end of the episode. I still personally prefer other fights, but the action was solid; now if only more Dimension X fights can occur. Other than Savage Michelangelo and the set up for the end of the arc, there's nothing of substance in comparison to style. For negatives though is an entirely different matter.

I can't vouch for Sabacooza despising the Mona x Raphael ship, but I do get where he's coming from. In comparison to the other relationships, I personally like that Raph has a motive for liking Mona, even if an idiotic parallel. However, it's irritating to contend with after Mona's debut; I have no problem with softie Raphael, but not when he's heads over heels this poorly. Furthermore, it feels like Michelangelo and Renet back with Turtles in Time as Raph is acting like a love sick puppy similar to Mikey. However, it's worse because while Renet only kissed Mikey at the end and it was more of Mike being unbearable, Raph and Mona's "relationship" is extremely forced. Granted it's only a few seconds spaced out this episode, but it gets old fast. I get teens always get butterflies in their stomachs (myself included :lol:) but it's really silly to me.

Other than the relationship, my main gripe with the episode is dialogue. Compare season 4's dialogue to other seasons in the Nickelodeon TMNT and there's a noticeable difference that everyone realizes. I said it already earlier, Kraang Subprime's lines are atrocious; no, Gilbert Gottfried doesn't make it better either as he sounds like a generic Saturday morning villain. It feels extremely obvious in what will be said and ultimately is cringe worthy. Like last week, this should have been a longer episode as the concepts were good on paper, just lackluster execution mostly. Also, how is Bishop alive? I thought he was killed with Earth in Annihilation: Earth as well as Kraang Subprime, it's weird. These two things personally hurt the episode, but like I have done before I always state my honest thoughts. :P

Overall, The War for Dimension X is up for what you personally think. I'm indifferent currently, but I can say though it's among the weakest of the space arc. I'll give it around a 5.5 or 6 out of 10. The episode introduces good concepts, but personally they weren't fully done and with more time, I'd say it's solid if some issues were fixed. Where I'd rank, I have no clue but honestly the show I'm hoping makes a comeback in the next few episodes. Until then, time for hiatus and see what's next.

Btw, does anyone know who wrote the episode? I'm curious.

[evan2000]

Isn't it weird that people are focusing so much on Raph x Mona instead of what the episode was mainly about - The War for Dimension X? :trazz:

By the way, I wonder if the events of this episode will remain in Bishop's memory by the time Annihilation Earth occurs. Have the turtles tampered with history so far?

Also, it wasn't really clear if this episode chronologically happened before or after Battle for New York. I guess it was after, since we didn't see any Kraangitized human in Dimension X this round; but then I thought KSP's Irma suit was destroyed at the end of BfNY? Perhaps he has several spares lying around :tlol:

[Vicky82]

Yeah I reckon this episode happens after Battle For New York.

Bishop said the 2nd part is at the Cosmic Ocean which is the next episode (which won't be airing next week due to Zap2It taking the date off).

[Bishop123]

Btw, does anyone know who wrote the episode? I'm curious.

Kevin Burke and Chris Wyatt did, who both previously wrote the episodes Mutagen Man Unleashed, Pizza Face, The Croaking and Meet Mondo Gecko.

Compared to those (especially The Croaking... :roll:) though, I personally thought this one was their strongest to date, though not without its flaws as others pointed out in this topic.

[The Happy One]

This. They're very much teens/pre-teens in this universe, & having been part of a 14 (?) year sewer sausage party, these guys aren't gonna know much about the mechanics of a romantic relationship, not in full anyway, & especially not Raphael, who is the least in touch with his feelings. While I agree the whole thing feels forced, it's stupid to say "WAAAHH! ALL THEY DO IS KISS, THIS IS SO UNREALISTIC!". Y'all never had a high school fling, eh? :tlol:



Well, I guess that’s a factor that I forgot to consider. The guys don't really understand all the dynamics of a relationship..but, even still...it felt overbearing at times.

[Vicky82]

Anyone think when watching the Flashback Kraang Prime going insane over power and taking over the other Kraangs minds, is going to happen to April (that's if Dark April is being Foreshadowed). She becomes stronger than Kraang Prime, takes over the minds of Kraang and humans (and possibly some mutants).

[cookie jar]

IGN review is up

8.5

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/31/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-war-for-dimension-x-review

[JTH]

This. They're very much teens/pre-teens in this universe, & having been part of a 14 (?) year sewer sausage party, these guys aren't gonna know much about the mechanics of a romantic relationship, not in full anyway, & especially not Raphael, who is the least in touch with his feelings. While I agree the whole thing feels forced, it's stupid to say "WAAAHH! ALL THEY DO IS KISS, THIS IS SO UNREALISTIC!". Y'all never had a high school fling, eh? :tlol:

This is the issue I have with it though, the whole point of Raph's relationship with Mona should be to help him put in perspective what all his brothers are going through with their feelings, specifically Donnie & Leo with all the crap he's said to them about acting stupid around their interests, so it can be an "I understand how you guys feel now about this stuff."

It doesn't have to be done in a lubby dubby kind of way, just a way to acknowledge what Raph has done in prior seasons and coming to grips with what they all go through.

It doesn't seem like they're going to play that role though, which kind of makes the the point of it moot.

[Vicky82]

IGN review is up

8.5

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/31/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-war-for-dimension-x-review

Max didn't complain about the romance then.

[The Happy One]

Anyone think when watching the Flashback Kraang Prime going insane over power and taking over the other Kraangs minds, is going to happen to April (that's if Dark April is being Foreshadowed). She becomes stronger than Kraang Prime, takes over the minds of Kraang and humans (and possibly some mutants).

Good theory! :tthumbsu:

I'm really looking forward to this Dark April and that would actually make a ton of sense...too bad she had to stay behind this episode. Do you think all this will happen before the end of this Space Arc...or will it linger into the end of season 4?

[Powder]

This is the issue I have with it though, the whole point of Raph's relationship with Mona should be to help him put in perspective what all his brothers are going through with their feelings, specifically Donnie & Leo with all the crap he's said to them about acting stupid around their interests, so it can be an "I understand how you guys feel now about this stuff."

Let's not kid ourselves, this pairing only exists to silence annoying fangirls from Tumblr & Deviantart. To make it anything more than surface level fluff would only validate their nagging & give cause for future romantic exploration. Besides, when we guys let our hearts lead, self-awareness sometimes goes out the window, & Raph's seldom one to admit when he's wrong anyway. :trazz:

[Foombamaroom]

Season 4 has been nothing but a disappointment. :/ This episode just solidified that. I miss the old writers.

[Papenbrook]

Let's not kid ourselves, this pairing only exists to silence annoying fangirls from Tumblr & Deviantart. To make it anything more than surface level fluff would only validate their nagging & give cause for future romantic exploration. Besides, when we guys let our hearts lead, self-awareness sometimes goes out the window, & Raph's seldom one to admit when he's wrong anyway. :trazz:

That's a generalization, Powder.

[Aaronardo]

That's a generalization, Powder.

Yes, but everything's a generalization to you. That's your freakin' catchphrase at this point. :lol:

But, even if it is a generalization, it's a pretty good one.

[PangolinFeets]

Jesus, people here are talking more about the kissing than on Tumblr....

Bishop fight scenes are really cool. I hope we get to see even more of him now. I'm wondering when we're going to get more background on Honeycutt and the Utroms.
So I guess we finally see 'real' Irma. This is about as real as Irma is ever going to get.
And here's something to think about: if time passes differently in dimension X, where were they when all that was happening? Could they find a way to use Dimension X's time properties to fast-travel to the other black hole generator piece locations? Hmm.

[Vicky82]

Jesus, people here are talking more about the kissing than on Tumblr....


Tell me about it, everyone reblogging the kissing scenes. :lol:

[Ninturtle]

That's a generalization, Powder.

Ciro literally said he got off his facebook account because he was tired of all the messages he got about Mona Lisa at NYCC. Odds are he was trying to please the demographic from tumblr that was begging for Mona Lisa.

[drgon78]

I enjoyed it, nice back story for the Utrom/Kraang. Also nice to find out were there human droid designs came from.

[victory_angel]

This is the issue I have with it though, the whole point of Raph's relationship with Mona should be to help him put in perspective what all his brothers are going through with their feelings, specifically Donnie & Leo with all the crap he's said to them about acting stupid around their interests, so it can be an "I understand how you guys feel now about this stuff."

It doesn't have to be done in a lubby dubby kind of way, just a way to acknowledge what Raph has done in prior seasons and coming to grips with what they all go through.

It doesn't seem like they're going to play that role though, which kind of makes the the point of it moot.

Maybe when the Dark April thing happens...it wouldn't be so much Donnie hugging Raph (the same way both Mikey and Leo have done to calm Raph down. (invasion-Mikey) and (Ancient Aeons-Leo) but Raph hugging Donnie as that would be putting Raph full circle.

In Season 1: Raph was skeptical about Donnie's attraction towards April and even tells his brother to his face that there is no chance of that happening.

Season 2: Raph does sort of attempt to pull Donnie out of his funk when April leaves. And later when Casey is asking about whether April had talked about him when she visits the lair. Raph indicates he doesn't want to take sides regarding April.

Season 3: Raph again points out to Donnie that any sort of relationship beyond friendship is not likely to happen.

This season since he has a love of his own...he is able to understand what his brothers all feel about their respective loves.

[aliena]

I liked this episode, but the Raph and Mona kissing was too much and I'm a shipper! One thing I will say, this relationship is moving the fastest and is probably the sexiest. When Mona says she'd like to train with him or teach him some of her moves, he says he'd really like that a lot as if implying something else entirely. It's funny that he never pined away for Mona like Leo has for Karai.

I thought the very end was super sad. When Leo says he could see kissing Karai like that, but not a lizard woman, Donnie tells him beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Leo looks so sad as if he's thinking about Karai and how they will never kiss like that, which they probably won't. It even froze them and if you look at Leo he looks so sad. I don't think the Donnie April thing will ever be concluded either, which is what I figured they'd do.

With that out of the way, on to other things. Is Savage Mikey getting old? I do love when he's in charge and knows what to do, but I think it's getting boring now. I loved seeing everyone else again, especially the real Irma and Bishop. And at least they got all the information they needed on the last two pieces. When Donnie or whoever was asking Irma about it and she lost her head I thought oh no, another wasted episode. But they came through with all they needed to get the last pieces and destroy them.

[Raph's Girl]

Ok first off.... While I do like that Mona Lisa is in more than one episode, even I think they need to do stuff other than kissy face. But eh...teenagers. :P

I love the origin of the Kraang. So Kraang Prime is uh Krang Krang who went nutty and decided to hive mind everyone to do his bidding. Well alrighty then! :o

That French Utrom...:lol:

[matteso586]

I think it was an awesome episode. So you people better stop being cynical about everything.

It even made me more curious about KSP's backstory. That cybernetic nutcase had three names apparently.

And its creative that each member of the Utrom council is named after a chess piece.

[Powder]

That's a generalization, Powder.

You're one to talk.

& like my buddy said, it's a fact.

Ciro literally said he got off his facebook account because he was tired of all the messages he got about Mona Lisa at NYCC. Odds are he was trying to please the demographic from tumblr that was begging for Mona Lisa.

[Foombamaroom]

I think a lot of people are confusing two things: It's fine that Raph has a love interest, it's just poorly written.

[ticktack]

I don't know what's the necessity to make Irma's situation from its current (past at this time) situation to badder and more bizzare. :/

[Powder]

Huh? They made her a good guy.

[Sabacooza]

I think a lot of people are confusing two things: It's fine that Raph has a love interest, it's just poorly written.This exactly times 10. Why does it have to be so over done and so out of character to the point where he acts like the woman of the relationship? What's so wrong with him playing it a bit more cool like Leo did with Karai or Mikey with Renet for that matter? It's fine to have a bit of a crush but when it's shoved in your face so hard it becomes so forced and annoying.

[ticktack]

I'm not in the theme with this but... Wearing glasses =/= nerdy or "ugly" additions at all (as it was its intention before >:( and is usually) it could likely mean that the person has a bad eyesight. Well I can't blame the look of Nick "Irma" because of it is its sort of recreation of an old cartoon Irma(bleh/meh). But the Irma of current series before ""s was cool. And she could have quit playing with glasses and if she had unusual superpowers (like in OT) she could have had an option to quit wearing it.

Huh? They made her a good guy.

I don't think I ment that. Like, ok, a good Rock(chess object) could make a rip-off of a human person's body and say Kraang subprime that she/it has created it(robot body). We could get many, many excuses for the plot but as it goes it gets ¯|_(ツ)_/¯ sillier(coughbadderbizzare).
Or like in avatar movie when a person makes a mind exchange to become another creature.

[oldmanwinters]

Maybe now we can finally heard the end of the Irma-ites' clamoring.

Also:
Leo: "I totally get mutants like Karai, but... alien lizards?"

:trolleye:

[Papenbrook]

I don't know what's the necessity to make Irma's situation from its current (past at this time) situation to badder and more bizzare. :/

There are so many reasons for that, but I will sum it up with the most obvious one...

THE SHOW DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE, OR EVEN CARE ABOUT WRITING, IT'S FEMALE CHARACTERS!!! :flaming:

[Ninturtle]

There are so many reasons for that, but I will sum it up in one sentence.

The show doesn't care about female characters.

There's nothing wrong with what they did with Irmas droid in this episode, it expanded on the idea that the Kraang stole suits from the Utroms presented in the season 3 finale.

[Etsyturtle2]

There are so many reasons for that, but I will sum it up in one sentence.

The show doesn't care about female characters.

Facepalm.:-?:-?

[TigerClaw]

The episode was great, nice seeing Mona Lisa kicking ass again, And also this.

http://i.imgur.com/l6bZiKh.gif

[Utrommaniac]

Considering that the machine lost its head, I wouldn't assume Pawn is dead. Both she and Queen did a little more than Rook, and I hope to see them back again.

As for the council, obviously based on chess pieces:

King - Dead? Kraang Prime? Completely absent
Queen - Leader; her tiara may be goofy, but I like it
Knight - Traitor
Bishop - Is Bishop
Rook - Original creator of the Irma suit
Pawn - Is French; takes a back seat to Queen and Rook

Most of all, I like that we've gotten two female Utroms at once. F***ing finally. And they work closely with one another too. In my book, it's a massive plus. Just hope we can get more in Return of the Technodrome.

[neatoman]

I have some ideas of who King could be...
BUT I'M NOT TELLING!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There are so many reasons for that, but I will sum it up with the most obvious one...

THE SHOW DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE, OR EVEN CARE ABOUT WRITING, IT'S FEMALE CHARACTERS!!! :flaming:

When she's right, she's right. And she's right.

In other news, four pages of discussing two mutants kissing? ... Days like this, I log off and vow not to return for at least 48 hours.

[TigerClaw]

When she's right, she's right. And she's right.

In other news, four pages of discussing two mutants kissing? ... Days like this, I log off and vow not to return for at least 48 hours.
Actually, one of the two kissing, wasn't a mutant, just saying. ;)

[Utrommaniac]

It's not even worth giving any attention to.

Especially when we've had a little more fleshing out on the origin of the Kraang. And the fact that King is oddly missing. All the others are there but him, even the former Knight.

[oldmanwinters]

Funny to see Casey and April moping (in their own way) aboard the ship on guard duty. I couldn't help but notice it was a non-speaking cameo. Considering all the characters and voice actors in this episode (Salamanders, Kraang, Utroms), might there have been a VA union limit that prevented them from coming along? I can never remember how those arrangements work.

[neatoman]

So this episode implied that Utroms are the natural state for the species but the season 3 finale implied the Kraang are the natural state of the species.

So which is it? Are the Utroms individualistic Kraang or are the Kraang collectivist Utroms?

[TigerClaw]

So this episode implied that Utroms are the natural state for the species but the season 3 finale implied the Kraang are the natural state of the species.

So which is it? Are the Utroms individualistic Kraang or are the Kraang collectivist Utroms?
The Kraang are just basically a separate faction of the Utroms, and I'm glad it is, since season one I wasn't fan of the idea of naming a species the Kraang, but with this episode, we can put the whole Kraang thing behind us since we finally know the reason why the Kraang exist.

[drgon78]

I like that Krang Prime discovered the mutagen and also brain washed most of the other Utroms to be his slaves. It would explain why the Kraang talk the way they do and a lot of other things as well.

[Utrommaniac]

So, would we assume that the Kraang taken prisoner could be removed from their brainwashing?

I'm also pretty sure that SubPrime/Knight's backstory is basically rounded off by Bishop screaming "you were the chosen one!" ala Obi-Wan Kenobi

[CyberCubed]

So this proves that Kraang Prime IS the "original" Krang and that he's the one that started the Kraang race and enslaved them from the Utroms. I imagine Kraang Sub-prime is the most similar to Fred Wolf's Krang's personality though.

I also love Bishop here. Bishop being an Utrom makes perfect sense for this show and I don't see how anyone can not like what they did with him here.

[Ceres]

So this proves that Kraang Prime IS the "original" Krang and that he's the one that started the Kraang race and enslaved them from the Utroms. I imagine Kraang Sub-prime is the most similar to Fred Wolf's Krang's personality though.

I also love Bishop here. Bishop being an Utrom makes perfect sense for this show and I don't see how anyone can not like what they did with him here.

Well for the butthurt 2k3 fans that sure makes a difference seeing as their "beloved" Bishop was turned into an Utrom which totally differed from his originals.

They could have left off the double "a" though, it sounds really silly with the context we have now.

[2K3]

I will admit, I was sceptical about this version of Bishop at first; but this episode helped turn it round.

I loved the backstory of Kraang Prime (or "Krang") and the Utroms! Plus the dynamic between Bishop and Knight/ Sub-Prime (seriously what's with the "Star Wars" comparisons this season)!

And FINALLY the Irma issue is put to rest! I'm fine with the original Irma being a member of the Utrom Council (even love the recolouring).

My only gripe with this episode... HOW DID THE SALAMANDRIANS GET TO DIMENSION X (does everyone have a transdimensional portal?)

[victory_angel]

Funny to see Casey and April moping (in their own way) aboard the ship on guard duty. I couldn't help but notice it was a non-speaking cameo. Considering all the characters and voice actors in this episode (Salamanders, Kraang, Utroms), might there have been a VA union limit that prevented them from coming along? I can never remember how those arrangements work.


Well we do know April is wanted by the Kraang. So it would make sense not to take her along, because they would be risking the Kraang learning about her. And they couldn't be certain about the Utrom.

I don't think it's a VA limit as we have had more VA then this is an episode. But each voice actor is part of the episode budget and Gilbert Gottfried and David Tennet would likely cost more then the normal cast.

And it's possible the VA just weren't available after all Josh Peck is staring along side John Stemos in Godfathered.

Peter Di Cicco also hinted on his Tumblr that there are some things coming up both for April and Donnie so it would make sense that would be lesser used.


When you have something coming up for a character it is emphasized in two ways you either build upon it kinda like in Harry Potter they focused a good deal on Serius Black...and then a certain event happens with him.

Or you relegate it to the background until it's time to bring it forward. Again Harry Potter as an example. In the first book Harry believes that Snape is the bad guy in the whole events that are going on...and then when we get to the actual confrontation the bad guy isn't Snape...but another character who gets minor focus.

[ToTheNines]

Very good episode. I'm really into the whole Utrom back story. I guess we can assume that Kraang was King before he went crazy, I don't see any other reason for that omission.

[oldmanwinters]

Peter Di Cicco also hinted on his Tumblr that there are some things coming up both for April and Donnie so it would make sense that would be lesser used.

Interesting... got a link or the blog date?

[victory_angel]

Interesting... got a link or the blog date?

January 29th 2016 he answered this to one person.

Thanks so much! It can be tricky with the supporting characters sometimes because the cast is already so big, so it was great being able to bring April more into the team. Glad you liked. Hope you enjoy what we have coming up. :)

http://peterdicicco.tumblr.com/post/138308168142/hi-mr-dicicco-i-just-wanted-to-tell-you-that-i#notes


And also on January 29th he Peter Di Cicco responded to this question.

http://peterdicicco.tumblr.com/post/138307145572/i-was-wondering-will-there-be-more-amorous#notes

I was wondering, will there be more amorous interactions between April and Donatello in future episodes?

Maybe. :)

Can’t give out any spoilers, so we’ll just have to wait and see.

When Auman or anyone who works on the staff gives you a :) or ;) and the words "Wait and see" or "Keep watching" that means "You are on the right track...I just can't tell you."

[CyberCubed]

Shipping has no place in TMNT. It really needs to die.

[Penst0ck]

My favorite moment in this episode is a small one.

It's when Raph asks Mona Lisa if she ever wants to go out with him sometime. She replies;

"Go out where, to space?"

This may be the first bit of dialogue Mona says that doesn't pertain to the plot, or have that noble warrior woman vibe to the line. It's just her asking a genuine question about nothing really important. It may have been one line, but it pushed the variety of dialogue that we had not yet heard from her. For a character who's screen time is squashed between two episodes, it's nice to hear a breather line and just let her talk like a person about something casual.

[OrangeNinja1987]

Shipping has no place in TMNT. It really needs to die.

That sentence makes no sense. There have been "shipped pairs" since the beginning, such as April and Casey.
And even if the noncanon shipping and t-cest don't belong (which I agree) there are people that will fight for those ships tooth and nail. Weirdos. :teek:

[TigerClaw]

That sentence makes no sense. There have been "shipped pairs" since the beginning, such as April and Casey.
And even if the noncanon shipping and t-cest don't belong (which I agree) there are people that will fight for those ships tooth and nail. Weirdos. :teek:
and Raph and Mona Lisa are a legitimate pair.

[CyberCubed]

That sentence makes no sense. There have been "shipped pairs" since the beginning, such as April and Casey.
And even if the noncanon shipping and t-cest don't belong (which I agree) there are people that will fight for those ships tooth and nail. Weirdos. :teek:

April/Casey is expected but that's because they were adults in all other versions. Turtles getting one-off crushes is fine but beyond that is just dull.

[plastroncafe]

But by your logic it shouldn't be allowed at all.
It's okay to be NoRomo, Cube.

[Bitsy83]

Welp. This was certainly more...affectionate than I was anticipating. I'd have assumed that Mona Lisa would've just hugged Raph and then gone gung-ho into battle while Raph is trying to get her attention or show off or...something.

After reading the comments, there are so many things to address and voice my opinion on, I'm not sure where to start. Well, I guess I'll get the smaller topics out of the way.

Utrom Council: Awesome. I'm glad Cassandra Peterson got to come back and get a bigger role instead of just being Mrs. Campbell. I guess the reason why they modeled their suits after humans was due to the fact that the Utrom had to disguise themselves in order to stop Kraang, but his numbers kept growing over time. Bishop did design the Norman suit, so it makes sense that the other members of council designed their suits as well. As for Irma, nice to see the fans go their wish...kinda. Hey, she was good this time! Though I can't help but feel having her head explode like that was sort of a middle finger to the fans who kept whining to have her back. I liked Irma too and felt her being Subprime was a bit of a cop-out, but what was done was done. I didn't need to see anymore of her. Other than that, I'm glad they're working in the peaceful Utrom arc.

Kraang Sub-prime being annoying: Well, DUH!!! For pete's sake, it's Gilbert Gottfried! He's not exactly a Shakespearean actor, guys. Even if they gave him the speech from "The King's Speech," it would've sounded atrocious. I think Sub-prime was always supposed to be this annoying, bratty character anyway, so it makes sense for his taunting to be stupid. So I honestly wasn't that phased. Aside from his role as Iago, anything Gottfried does is annoying and mind-numbingly painful.

Raph and Mona:

Woo boy....knew I should've started on this earlier in the day. Ok, time to make some enemies.

I think it's fine. Was I expecting such a strong, lovey-dovey thing? Course not, but it is nice to see a side of Raph that isn't sarcastic or angry or sarcastically angry. I know people think this is "OOC" for him and I can see their point, but how do we know that acting goofy around a girl wasn't meant to be part of his character? Because he teased his bothers for the same reason? I'm sure he wasn't expecting it to happen. There have been lots of times where I see someone acting a certain way (for example, getting upset over something trivial) and I say to myself "Ok, that will NEVER happen to me." Then something trivial happens and what do I do? Act exactly like that person I witnessed, maybe even more so. We tend to be hypocritical more than we expect to.

As for the "rushed romance:" You call it pandering to the fans, I call it giving the babies their bottles. You really think the writers and artists haven't seen the fan art and fiction all over the internet, including Tumblr? Peter DiCicco, one of the main writers, has a Tumblr account so I'm sure he's come across a few, INCLUDING Ramona stuff.

For the last three seasons, these guys have been getting emails, tweets, posts, and live questions asking about what sort of love interests the turtles will have. And they've only been getting more nagging the further we get into the series. I remember coming across lots of posts about how horrible the romance is on the show, even though it's not intended to be a romantic comedy. April's been too vague about whether she likes Donnie more than Casey; Leo and Karai has been nothing but a tease; Mikey's got this puppy love thing with Renet. Fangirls want their OTPs and Mona Lisa is one of the biggest requests they've been barking for (along with Ninjara and Alopex), but they didn't want to have to want to have a "will they? won't they?" type ordeal, so the writers just thought "Ok, fans want romance for the Turtles? Let's make it official!" Next thing you know, BOOM! Kissy noses!!!

(BTW, they really weren't KISSING in the episode, if you look closely enough. They're lips don't really touch, they're just...cuddling.)

Now, I know the same people who were begging for Ramona to happen aren't necessarily the same people who ended up complaining about the pair, but I can't help but feel bad for the writers. DiCicco posted this on Tumblr about the writing process of the show:

The writing process is pretty intense because we’re generally working on around five different stories in different stages of drafts, not including the 26+ episodes in various stages of production. But for each episode, the stages are laid out into premise, outline, 1st draft, 2nd draft, and record draft, which is the final version that gets recorded by the actors and given to the storyboard artists to start boarding.

One of the great challenges I personally have as a writer is timing the script so that it will work in under 22 minutes (I think if you account for the main title, we only have 21 minutes of actual show time now). And one thing you have to understand about television (at least, basic cable) is shows have to deliver precisely on time. They can’t be even 30 seconds over or under.

Once we see the show in animatic form, stuff almost always ends up getting cut or rewritten for time. Sometimes it actually helps the pacing, sometimes you just need to lose things. You’d be amazed how much a minute or even just 30 seconds of screen time can be.

Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it? I'm sure if the writers had all the time and freedom in the world, Raph and Mona would've possibly slowed down and taken a different route. But since they have to write scripts that are collaborating with other writers, make sure they introduce characters that will later be made into toys, pass judgement from the Nick executives and have some of their hard work end up on the cutting room floor, we're lucky we get what we get. This isn't a cheap show, guys. I do wish that our scripts and pacing was different, but at least they're trying to give us what we (or most) want.

That being said, I almost feel bad for poor Ciro. That comment he made about "too many female characters" really put him in the hot seat. I don't know whether he said that because he was saving Renet and Mona Lisa as a surprise or he really didn't want too many love arcs to clash with his main ideas, but I can't help but feel that the Nick execs were breathing down his neck to fix this or else they'd have someone else take over directing. (If the execs have the power to do that, that is). Even if they didn't, i can't help but think people over reacting to that just a tad. At least he's treating the franchise with more respect than Bay and Libesman did. And didn't he sound a bit nervous at the last Comic Con panel when he was like "So, any Mona Lisa fans out there? What about Mona Lisa, huh?" Like he was hoping people weren't going to start badgering him with more hate.

Personally, I really hope they decide to keep Mona in the show. And I'm not saying this because I'm a romantic and am happy to see her have more than one episode. I could see some potential with her living on earth and helping the Turtles find the remainder of the Kraang. DiCicco even agreed the show was a bit male-heavy so that's probably why we're getting a few new females next season along with Lucy Lawless later this season. With Irma being a Utrom councilman...woman...female and Karai sort of MIA, it'd be nice to see April have another gal pal to hang with. And I'm sure things will cool down between Raph and Mona were this to happen, though Leo's comment at the end of the episode makes me wonder if this will lead to something else. Like a rant of jealousy on Leo's part.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm sure I posted a bunch of stuff people will disagree with and I might sound like a pushover, but I loved this episode and am REALLY HOPING SUBPRIME IS DEAD THIS TIME!!!! (Swear, the dude's a cockroach...)

[Utrommaniac]

Chronologically, he wouldn't really be dead, since it's six months in the past, and he still has to be on Earth with Krang Prime when it's destroyed.

And then there's still more to open up about his history as Knight and why he betrayed the Utroms after being their "greatest hero".

[CyberCubed]

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That sentence makes no sense. There have been "shipped pairs" since the beginning, such as April and Casey.
And even if the noncanon shipping and t-cest don't belong (which I agree) there are people that will fight for those ships tooth and nail. Weirdos. :teek:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Got your attention? Excellent.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ship&defid=4978683

Shipping is when fans start a movement or idea (which sometimes happens, usually doesn't) of what couple belongs together. April and Casey became a romantic couple because the writers and creators made it happen, regardless of fan input.

Any other example would probably work, but that one is invalid.

[Zak The Neutrino]

I liked this episode a lot minus two things. I agree with a lot of what everyone else said the Ralph/Mona thing was way over done. It was like ok we get it lets move on. The other thing that bothered me was Fugitoid having a gun that came out of his arm. I don't recall we haven't seen that before correct? That's really out of character for him and I didn't care of it.

I can really look past those and I'm finally for the last two episodes enjoying the space arc. It took them long enough to start actually getting some place.

[Utrommaniac]

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

I am going to enjoy this so much. It should be incredible.

[Powder]

There will surely be no greater moment in animated TMNT history.

[CyberCubed]

Also anyone else think the trio in the Utrom council were loosely based on the 2k3 Utrom council? Not talking about the Irma/teacher designs, but just the fact that there were 3 of them that decided the fate of their people.

[shredder orokusaki]

What will happen now that the Utroms won? Does it mean no more Kraang episode from now on?

[Vicky82]

Raph and Mona:

Woo boy....knew I should've started on this earlier in the day. Ok, time to make some enemies.

I think it's fine. Was I expecting such a strong, lovey-dovey thing? Course not, but it is nice to see a side of Raph that isn't sarcastic or angry or sarcastically angry. I know people think this is "OOC" for him and I can see their point, but how do we know that acting goofy around a girl wasn't meant to be part of his character? Because he teased his bothers for the same reason? I'm sure he wasn't expecting it to happen. There have been lots of times where I see someone acting a certain way (for example, getting upset over something trivial) and I say to myself "Ok, that will NEVER happen to me." Then something trivial happens and what do I do? Act exactly like that person I witnessed, maybe even more so. We tend to be hypocritical more than we expect to.

As for the "rushed romance:" You call it pandering to the fans, I call it giving the babies their bottles. You really think the writers and artists haven't seen the fan art and fiction all over the internet, including Tumblr? Peter DiCicco, one of the main writers, has a Tumblr account so I'm sure he's come across a few, INCLUDING Ramona stuff.

For the last three seasons, these guys have been getting emails, tweets, posts, and live questions asking about what sort of love interests the turtles will have. And they've only been getting more nagging the further we get into the series. I remember coming across lots of posts about how horrible the romance is on the show, even though it's not intended to be a romantic comedy. April's been too vague about whether she likes Donnie more than Casey; Leo and Karai has been nothing but a tease; Mikey's got this puppy love thing with Renet. Fangirls want their OTPs and Mona Lisa is one of the biggest requests they've been barking for (along with Ninjara and Alopex), but they didn't want to have to want to have a "will they? won't they?" type ordeal, so the writers just thought "Ok, fans want romance for the Turtles? Let's make it official!" Next thing you know, BOOM! Kissy noses!!!

(BTW, they really weren't KISSING in the episode, if you look closely enough. They're lips don't really touch, they're just...cuddling.)



I don't think anyone noticed my earlier posts.

If the romance between 2 main characters is rushed, I can understand but Mona Lisa is a minor character and we got what 4/5 episodes left in the space arc so Mona will probably be in a least 3 more episodes.

We probably won't be seeing her again after that (maybe she probably make an appearance sometime in the future) I expect we be seeing a heartbreaking Turtle at the end of the Space Arc.

It is a teenage romance after all and they don't last.

I liked this episode a lot minus two things. I agree with a lot of what everyone else said the Ralph/Mona thing was way over done. It was like ok we get it lets move on. The other thing that bothered me was Fugitoid having a gun that came out of his arm. I don't recall we haven't seen that before correct? That's really out of character for him and I didn't care of it.


Fugitoid had his guns out in The Moons of Thalos 3.

[victory_angel]

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

He doesn't just befriend him. At comic con last year they were saying Krang is sub-primes cousin.

By the way has anyone noticed that Donnie's jabs and insults towards Mikey have started to become more mean spirited?

I mean yeah all the Turtles have teased Mikey now and again...but even then the jabs and teasing that Donnie was something Mikey would get over in five minutes.

In the last few episodes the digs and veiled insults on Donnie's part have become down right cruel. Heck this recent one where Donnie is trying to teach Mikey about black holes was set up as a joke that Raph automatically would jump on and they get away with it because Mikey wouldn't understand what the insult actually was.

[matteso586]

He doesn't just befriend him. At comic con last year they were saying Krang is sub-primes cousin.

By the way has anyone noticed that Donnie's jabs and insults towards Mikey have started to become more mean spirited?

I mean yeah all the Turtles have teased Mikey now and again...but even then the jabs and teasing that Donnie was something Mikey would get over in five minutes.

In the last few episodes the digs and veiled insults on Donnie's part have become down right cruel. Heck this recent one where Donnie is trying to teach Mikey about black holes was set up as a joke that Raph automatically would jump on and they get away with it because Mikey wouldn't understand what the insult actually was.

I think the guys at NYCC 2015 were joking about KSP and 1987 Krang being cousins. And I see that you think it's unlikely that "Knight" perished for real this time.

[TLP]

Really didn't like this episode.

The jokes weren't as good, and I personally despise how forced the Raph/Mona Lisa relationship is. Pure shipper bait.

[MikeandRaph87]

I watched it last night. We get an origin for the Kraang and Kraang Prime is Krang ( or is it Kraang?). That was a nice touch. I just don't like how Agent Bishop is being utilized this go around. IDW will help in that he is covered more to his concept I believe. Anyway, I was a little confused. If Krang copied himself did he overwrite the other utroms DNA to be zombie soldiers with his DNA? Sub-Prime is definitely his own alien not a Kraang copy. Is he like Krang's number two or what exactly?

[neatoman]

So here's a question, why is that Queen, Sub-Prime and Prime can speak without robot suits but no other Utroms can?

[Ceres]

I watched it last night. We get an origin for the Kraang and Kraang Prime is Krang ( or is it Kraang?). That was a nice touch. I just don't like how Agent Bishop is being utilized this go around. IDW will help in that he is covered more to his concept I believe. Anyway, I was a little confused. If Krang copied himself did he overwrite the other utroms DNA to be zombie soldiers with his DNA? Sub-Prime is definitely his own alien not a Kraang copy. Is he like Krang's number two or what exactly?

Kraang has not copied himself in the conventional meaning, he just mind-controlled his fellow Utrom and made them into Kraang(building a whole race after his name was probably an effect of the Kraathragon Mutagen he experimented with, and as the flashback stated, this mutagen get to his head, making him crazy in the end and gave him an overly high self esteem)

My guess is that SUbprime resisted Kraangs mind-control but later on kind of allied himself with Kraang to have more power, thus leaving the council behind.

So here's a question, why is that Queen, Sub-Prime and Prime can speak without robot suits but no other Utroms can?

This is a very good question which i was wondering myself ever since Bishop had appeared.

[MikeandRaph87]

I write TMNT as something I don't have to think about and can work while I watch it. You know like you could with sitcoms. I guess I was wrong. So to clarify, Krang took over the utrom race with mind control and then mutated his subjects? 99 or so were not under his control and thus the actual race, utroms continued on while Krang's subjects became a sister species?

http://data1.whicdn.com/images/74002876/large.jpg

[miru]

Maybe now we can finally heard the end of the Irma-ites' clamoring.

Also:
Leo: "I totally get mutants like Karai, but... alien lizards?"

:trolleye:

Yes. Pawn/Rook is an awesome character.

[TLP]

Reading through the pages; apparently I'm not the only one upset by this "love interest" bullcrap. :lol:

Ah well. I'm done with this show after this season, if it doesn't get any better. Then I guess I'll stick with Marvel for my action cartoon fix. They seem to be better written, as much as people like to complain about those shows being "awful".

[MikeandRaph87]

Yes. Pawn/Rook is an awesome character.

That the funniest line of the season so far. The relationship between Leo and Karai suggesting possible romance in the 2003 cartoon and then Karai being his step-sister makes it funny. It's like he is saying its okay for him to like Karai even if she is a sibling of sorts just because she is a mutant for the time being.:lol::P Too much Greg/Marcia parody Brady filmesqe. For him to dismiss Raph for that makes it funny. At least she is an alien equivalent of a reptile.

[Sabacooza]

Reading through the pages; apparently I'm not the only one upset by this "love interest" bullcrap. :lol:

Ah well. I'm done with this show after this season, if it doesn't get any better. Then I guess I'll stick with Marvel for my action cartoon fix. They seem to be better written, as much as people like to complain about those shows being "awful".Right on. Bullcrap it is. It was handled so poorly any waaaaay over the top.

[CyberCubed]

Stop whining. I don't like shipping either and its only two scenes that you can ignore. The episode was great.

[Amaranthus]

I loved this episode besides Kraang SubPrime's dialogue and Raph being a total pussy.

[TigerClaw]

It doesn't surprise me seeing all the haters for the whole Raph and Mona Lisa romance, I know that Brandon Auman knows about that stuff and is trolling them hard.

It seems some people are fine with Donnie going gaga over April, but the minute you bring up Raph and Mona Lisa, they lose there crap over that pairing.

I have no issues with one of the Turtles getting intimate, It's just the way things in life can happen, especially when your a teenager.

[Amaranthus]

It doesn't surprise me seeing all the haters for the whole Raph and Mona Lisa romance, I know that Brandon Auman knows about that stuff and is trolling them hard.

It seems some people are fine with Donnie going gaga over April, but the minute you bring up Raph and Mona Lisa, they lose there crap over that pairing.

I have no issues with one of the Turtles getting intimate, It's just the way things in life can happen, especially when your a teenager.

Lots of people complain about Donnie and Casey getting creepy about April.
Besides, people aren't complaining about the fact that Raph has love-interest. They're complaining about how poorly executed it is.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I thought this was a pretty good episode. Once again, LOVED the scene where April and Casey got frusturated being left out again. Surprised that Donnie being the one mentioning this hasn't bothered him in the slightest.

It was interesting seeing the Utrom Council in this version. Seeing Utroms over any type of version of Krang makes me happy. Loved the scene where Irma's droid got destroyed. Sadly, I doubt this will stop those begging for Irma to come back but like I said, let the past go! The Raph and Mona romance scenes didn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't come off as puppy dog crushes like the other three turtles have. They embrace each other and have a great respect for their abilities.

Not as good as The Arena of Carnage but definitely my second favorite episode of the season.

[Vicky82]

I find it funny that this is only place that people are moaning about Raph and Mona Lisa. I haven't seen any one moaning about it on Tumblr. :lol:

Anyway they weren't even kissing, they were bumping noses.

Don't worry guys, we got 5 episodes left of the space arc and then we probably won't even see Mona Lisa agian, so poor Raph won't have a girlfriend no more.

[Amaranthus]

I find it funny that this is only place that people are moaning about Raph and Mona Lisa. I haven't seen any one moaning about it on Tumblr. :lol:

Anyway they weren't even kissing, they were bumping noses.

Don't worry guys, we got 5 episodes left of the space arc and then we probably won't even see Mona Lisa agian, so poor Raph won't have a girlfriend no more.

Can you even read?
People are complaining about how poorly executed it is. Not about Raph having a girlfriend.
And no-one gives a sh*t about what Tumblr thinks. We have our opinion and you should learn to deal with it instead of endlessly defending this show and its flaws.

[TigerClaw]

I find it funny that this is only place that people are moaning about Raph and Mona Lisa. I haven't seen any one moaning about it on Tumblr. :lol:

Anyway they weren't even kissing, they were bumping noses.

Don't worry guys, we got 5 episodes left of the space arc and then we probably won't even see Mona Lisa agian, so poor Raph won't have a girlfriend no more.
Who knows, maybe Mona Lisa will show up in Earth sometime.

[Vicky82]

Can you even read?
People are complaining about how poorly executed it is. Not about Raph having a girlfriend.


I was actually talking about both.

I like to know how everyone here, would of written Raphs and Mona's relationship in the show, if it was poorly executed.

[GoldMutant]

I like to know how everyone here, would of written Raphs and Mona's relationship in the show, if it was poorly executed.

Simple, I wouldn't attempt to give em a romance. :P

Alright to be serious, I have said it several times now, I rather Raphael and Mona Lisa had some time to know each other. The motive is there if extremely silly in Moons of Thalos 3 but the problem rears a serious curve: it's rushed. Put aside the love at first sight trope or teenage romance, we've had that twice now, Donatello and April as well as Michelangelo and Renet. If I were to fix it here's what I'd do from Moons of Thalos 3 to War for Dimension X


Start with Raphael and Mona having a fight in Moons
Raph is either outclassed due to Mona's advanced training or a nice even fight.
To go full circle of Raph making fun of the crushes, have him seek advice from the group on love lifes. Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.
The two meet up during the Ice Dragon battle; Raph desires to have her open up. Fights in a badass fashion.
Mona still hates him, but when the two freeze, Raph protects Mona from freezing.
The two begin to respect each others skills; no relationship kiss yet, but a hug or handshake.
Possibly throughout the episodes before this, Raph thinks about Mona a little wondering about her. (this is a definite maybe)
Now in War for Dimension X, repeat up to the detention center.
Raph is shocked to see Mona Lisa again and attempts to break her out. Hint Mona has gone nicer.
The two work together on the Dractoids, demonstrate their growth in teamwork.
Either have them kiss, or end the episode with something cute.


I have no problem with Mona and Raph if it weren't so poorly written with both characters. Space out the romance and it can be a decent relationship and gives Raphael development. It isn't too difficult, but what we got this episode wasn't anything other than cringey. :ohwell: It still annoys me either way.

[Ninturtle]

I loved this episode besides Kraang SubPrime's dialogue and Raph being a total pussy.

Agreed , but another gripe I had is that the show isn't that fubby anymore. Other than the Mortal Kombat joke and a few of Fugitoids line I haven't laughed much. Thinking about it , the only season that's made me laugh a lot was season 1.

[Vicky82]

Simple, I wouldn't attempt to give em a romance. :P

Alright to be serious, I have said it several times now, I rather Raphael and Mona Lisa had some time to know each other. The motive is there if extremely silly in Moons of Thalos 3 but the problem rears a serious curve: it's rushed. Put aside the love at first sight trope or teenage romance, we've had that twice now, Donatello and April as well as Michelangelo and Renet. If I were to fix it here's what I'd do from Moons of Thalos 3 to War for Dimension X


Start with Raphael and Mona having a fight in Moons
Raph is either outclassed due to Mona's advanced training or a nice even fight.
To go full circle of Raph making fun of the crushes, have him seek advice from the group on love lifes. Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.
The two meet up during the Ice Dragon battle; Raph desires to have her open up. Fights in a badass fashion.
Mona still hates him, but when the two freeze, Raph protects Mona from freezing.
The two begin to respect each others skills; no relationship kiss yet, but a hug or handshake.
Possibly throughout the episodes before this, Raph thinks about Mona a little wondering about her. (this is a definite maybe)
Now in War for Dimension X, repeat up to the detention center.
Raph is shocked to see Mona Lisa again and attempts to break her out. Hint Mona has gone nicer.
The two work together on the Dractoids, demonstrate their growth in teamwork.
Either have them kiss, or end the episode with something cute.


I have no problem with Mona and Raph if it weren't so poorly written with both characters. Space out the romance and it can be a decent relationship and gives Raphael development. It isn't too difficult, but what we got this episode wasn't anything other than cringey. :ohwell: It still annoys me either way.

That's good but you need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for it and you got to focus on the main story as well.

Also you need to aim for little kids to understand and make it cute and funny for them.

Don't forget the crew only had 20 episodes (Nick ordered 6 more later) at the time of writing the space arc so they were only limited to what they could do.

I expect Zelda Williams was only contracted for a few episodes as well.

I don't know how many episodes Mona Lisa is in out of the 5 episodes left of the Space arc but I expect it be like 2 or 3 episodes maybe.

I do agree with you on the kiss in this episode (or nose bumping) It should have been just the once at the end of the episode to make it a bit more special as it was on screen.

[Aaronardo]

That's good but you need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for it and you got to focus on the main story as well.

...here's what I'd do from Moons of Thalos 3 to War for Dimension X

Also you need to aim for little kids to understand and make it cute and funny for them.

Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.

Can you even read?

Bah, humbug with these "10 characters and quotes don't count" rules ruining my smartass post :ohwell:

[GoldMutant]

Bah, humbug with these "10 characters and quotes don't count" rules ruining my smartass post :ohwell:

Aw come on dude, you can at least address everyone by name. It'll save you room. :)

[Aaronardo]

Aw come on dude, you can at least address everyone by name. It'll save you room. :)

I really would've, but seeing those quotes all just fall into place like that... it was a truly magical opportunity I couldn't pass up. :lol:

[Ninjinister]

I temporarily forgot that Honeycutt's first name was Zayton so when Bishop addressed him, I thought he called him Satan for a second.

[The Happy One]

I was actually talking about both.

I like to know how everyone here, would of written Raphs and Mona's relationship in the show, if it was poorly executed.

I find it funny that this is only place that people are moaning about Raph and Mona Lisa. I haven't seen any one moaning about it on Tumblr. :lol:

Anyway they weren't even kissing, they were bumping noses.

Don't worry guys, we got 5 episodes left of the space arc and then we probably won't even see Mona Lisa agian, so poor Raph won't have a girlfriend no more.

Well, for one: It is on Tumblr but...hey, you can’t see everything that goes on around there. Personally it wasn't even just Raph and Mona as a couple. In fact, I really didn’t expect it to be too, too big of a deal...but when something people like is written a bit...subpar...it isn’t taken well. :ohwell:

But anywho, once I rewatched the episode I can actually say it was decently good. Once I got past the few scenes that made me cringe a bit and the fact that I nearly forgot Casey, April and Donnie existed...it had a pretty interesting concept as well as great, solid action-packed scenes so...yeah.


As for how I'd write Mona/Raph? I'm gonna have to go with Gold on this one. It would've been better- knowing that they only had a few eps with Mona in it- if they made them just...y'know...awesome butt kicking friends. Intertwine her dry, rough personality with Raph's gruff, sarcastic one and there ya have some pretty great and humorous moments between them. It would've flowed better and the writers wouldn’t’ve had to try to squeeze a relationship in there. But, if people love it how it was then...that’s all that matters, I guess. :thumbsup:

[Splinter the boss]

Good episode. It was action packed, and savage Mikey was there. I find it bothering that the Utroms were the original creators of the Irma bot, regular kraang bot, and Mrs. Campbell bot at the same time. Nice fight between Bishop and Subprime. The episodes just keep getting better.

[cryan]

Well, for one: It is on Tumblr but...hey, you can’t see everything that goes on around there. Personally it wasn't even just Raph and Mona as a couple. In fact, I really didn’t expect it to be too, too big of a deal...but when something people like is written a bit...subpar...it isn’t taken well. :ohwell:

But anywho, once I rewatched the episode I can actually say it was decently good. Once I got past the few scenes that made me cringe a bit and the fact that I nearly forgot Casey, April and Donnie existed...it had a pretty interesting concept as well as great, solid action-packed scenes so...yeah.


As for how I'd write Mona/Raph? I'm gonna have to go with Gold on this one. It would've been better- knowing that they only had a few eps with Mona in it- if they made them just...y'know...awesome butt kicking friends. Intertwine her dry, rough personality with Raph's gruff, sarcastic one and there ya have some pretty great and humorous moments between them. It would've flowed better and the writers wouldn’t’ve had to try to squeeze a relationship in there. But, if people love it how it was then...that’s all that matters, I guess. :thumbsup:

I would have made Raph's and Mona's relationship more standoffish. Similar to Leia and Han in The Empire Strikes back. Raph's the tough brash type and this version of Mona was more skilled and more serious. I do agree that the Moons episode that introduced Mona Lisa that their relationship was a bit rushed. Would have liked it if it was spread out a bit. Not really the way I would have made the character but it is what it is.

[IndigoErth]

:D I've liked this season okay so far, but probably the first episode I kinda loved as there felt like there was a lot to it, got some headway for the storyline, and without feeling rushed.

So I guess that seals it that Irma may not be coming back as a human girl, but interesting that I guess the real Irma has turned out to be a Kraang Utrom girl. And a queen as well? (A tiara? Really..? lol) Actually referring to Kraang Prime as "he" in this... I can deal with a "queen" being added with the good guys. Interesting take on it after the discussions of it being a species like bees in a a sense and a bit ago they did add the "hive mind" thing to it. Makes me think they may in fact get ideas from fan discussions, but then find a way to make it their own of course.

And then there's Raph and Mona. :lol::tlol: What, Nick didn't wait a little longer so they could let this one air on Valentine's Day?? lol

Too funny Raph's the only one to actually find a mutual interest and his brothers are just left to watch it happen while they never got anywhere with their own crushes. :trazz: But geeze, these two do not wait around or take it slow by any means. lol Mona with her ability to extinguish Raph's anger fire and light a different kind. haha

[MsMarvelDuckie]

April/Casey is expected but that's because they were adults in all other versions. Turtles getting one-off crushes is fine but beyond that is just dull.


hat did you forget Mikey/Kala from the OT? That was hardly a one-off. (though more spaced out....)


YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Got your attention? Excellent.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ship&defid=4978683

Shipping is when fans start a movement or idea (which sometimes happens, usually doesn't) of what couple belongs together. April and Casey became a romantic couple because the writers and creators made it happen, regardless of fan input.

Any other example would probably work, but that one is invalid.


So is Mikey/Kala. OR Raph/Ninjara.


:
And then there's Raph and Mona. :lol::tlol: What, Nick didn't wait a little longer so they could let this one air on Valentine's Day?? lol

Too funny Raph's the only one to actually find a mutual interest and his brothers are just left to watch it happen while they never got anywhere with their own crushes. :trazz: But geeze, these two do not wait around or take it slow by any means. lol Mona with her ability to extinguish Raph's anger fire and light a different kind. haha


No, they don't, do they?

[IndigoErth]

This Mona is a lady who knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. :trazz: Not that she was before, but this version has raised the bar. :tlol:

Seeing this second dose of her, I'm glad Nick decided to jump on the opportunity to pick her up and do something with her. And kudos on the design and making her come across as female in a natural, subtle way without throwing in an abundance of unnecessary human traits to make sure it's unnecessarily overly obvious.

I hope this second appearance means her and Sal will be a bit of a fixture in this season.

[Sabacooza]

I hope this second appearance means her and Sal will be a bit of a fixture in this season.Good God I hope not. That means we'd have Raph acting hot and heavy and out of character throughout the rest of the season every time he sees Mona. So basically, as the Donnie and April love interest simmers down, we'd have this over the top stuff to take it's place. We just couldn't ever get away from it. Better yet, let's go one step further and make season 5 the season of love where every character has a hot and heavy love interest.:P I shudder at the thought.

I don't hate Mona as a character. She's kind of cool I just wish that their relationship was more akin to Han and Leia from Star Wars with Raph actually being Han.

I also wouldn't mind them having somewhat of a competitive relationship where they try to outdo one another with how many enemies they crush and how flashy the technique they use to do it. Their attraction to each other could center around their mutual love for being strong and destructive :lol: but I could definitely do without all the Raph being swooned like a girl moments. It just seems so wrong.:teek:

[Vicky82]

As for how I'd write Mona/Raph? I'm gonna have to go with Gold on this one. It would've been better- knowing that they only had a few eps with Mona in it- if they made them just...y'know...awesome butt kicking friends. Intertwine her dry, rough personality with Raph's gruff, sarcastic one and there ya have some pretty great and humorous moments between them. It would've flowed better and the writers wouldn’t’ve had to try to squeeze a relationship in there. But, if people love it how it was then...that’s all that matters, I guess. :thumbsup:

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.

[Sabacooza]

If that was truly the case then why was Mikey and Renet still in character and handled 10 times better than Raph and Mona and that was only 2 episodes? I think you give these writers way too much credit.

[TigerClaw]

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.
Yeah and it's a kid show on Nickelodeon, they can't write overly complex stuff that might go to there heads, so the teenage romance you see is the kind you typically see in kids shows, It's why some people complain the romance stuff was rushed, they only have a couple of episodes to work with, so they try to squeeze that in as much as possible.

[DarkLightDragon]

*Sees the "it's for kid's" excuse for mediocre writing again*

*Magically gets 1 dollar as a result*

You guys are gonna make me rich if you keep this up.

[Sabacooza]

Yeah and it's a kid show on Nickelodeon, they can't write overly complex stuff that might go to there heads, so the teenage romance you see is the kind you typically see in kids shows, It's why some people complain the romance stuff was rushed, they only have a couple of episodes to work with, so they try to squeeze that in as much as possible.That's nonsense because they treated the short crushes that Leo and Mikey had on Karai and Renet way better than Donnie and Raph so there's really no excuse.

[matteso586]

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.

Might I remind you that season 4 got extended to 26 episodes?

[Amaranthus]

Vicky82 and TigerClaw are dumb.
I rest my case.

[Ceres]

The heck with all of you complaining about these stupid lovey dovey stuff in the episode. You just can overlook this nonsense and enjoy the rest of the episode which was very good in things of pacing and action. You have to learn to blend out certain things in this show, as i did with April and Casey ~

Subprime was awesome, even a little bratty but hey, this is his character. And the rest of the Utroms were A+ with the funny french Utrom as best sidecharacter for a long time, the Queen was adorable and her tiara was awesome too.
The fight was okay too, with a fast pacing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Vicky825 and Tiger_Claw are dumb.
I rest my case.

Calm down, Sparky. They're nice people, just with (extremely) questionable and passive taste.

You also got both of their names wrong.

[DarkLightDragon]

But I'm not like you and why should I be like you?:roll:

Honestly people who defend every aspect of this show is just as bad people who defend everything about BayTurtles and simply take every "I didn't like this, I didn't like that" as complaining for the sake of mean or whatever. Can't handle the heat of what you like gets? Then maybe you should stay out of the kitchen.

Sorry, it had to be said.

[Amaranthus]

But I'm not like you and why should I be like you?:roll:

Honestly people who defend every aspect of this show is just as bad people who defend everything about BayTurtles and simply take every "I didn't like this, I didn't like that" as complaining for the sake of mean or whatever. Can't handle the heat of what you like gets? Then maybe you should stay out of the kitchen.

Sorry, it had to be said.

It's frustrating, isn't it?
They deserve to be called out. This show isn't perfect and as soon as someone mentions a flaw (especially about Mikey) Vicky82 jumps on top of him/her.
It's annoying as hell and it needs to be addressed.

[TigerClaw]

It's frustrating, isn't it?
They deserve to be called out. This show isn't perfect and as soon as someone mentions a flaw (especially about Mikey) Vicky82 jumps on top of him/her.
It's annoying as hell and it needs to be addressed.
And you get called out for calling other people out, rinse and repeat, you will have to deal with other people's opinions whether you like it or not.

[Vicky82]

If that was truly the case then why was Mikey and Renet still in character and handled 10 times better than Raph and Mona and that was only 2 episodes? I think you give these writers way too much credit.

Because we only saw her for one and bit episode and not actually part of the arc and we also don't know when we be seeing her again.

I expect Mikey knows he has no chance with her anyway, being from different times

Also Mona Lisa will be in more episodes than Renet and Mona is part of the main arc.

[Amaranthus]

And you get called out for calling other people out, rinse and repeat, you will have to deal with other people's opinions whether you like it or not.

I have to deal with other's opinions?
You two are constantly defending this show. Thus arguing with people who have different opinions.
Shut the hell up, boi.

[Vicky82]

Might I remind you that season 4 got extended to 26 episodes?

I said that, read it again

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm just gonna sit here and cackle like Palpatine while you guys argue and throw things at each other.

[Vicky82]

I have to deal with other's opinions?
You two are constantly defending this show. Thus arguing with people who have different opinions.
Shut the hell up, boi.

I don't always defend this show, there have been a few episodes i've moaned about.

[TigerClaw]

I have to deal with other's opinions?
You two are constantly defending this show. Thus arguing with people who have different opinions.
Shut the hell up, boi.
I'm not arguing, It seems you have issues with whatever is going on here and taking it personal.

[Amaranthus]

I'm not arguing, It seems you have issues with whatever is going on here and taking it personal.

I'm calling out you and Vicky82 for not accepting other's opinions and reaching out to excuse the flaws of this show.

[TigerClaw]

I'm calling out you and Vicky82 for not accepting other's opinions and reaching out to excuse the flaws of this show.
and I'm calling you out for not respecting other's opinions, you can keep at it, you'll just go around in circles.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

"Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you."

[TigerClaw]

"Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you."
Both sides will never be happy, Its why I stay around with all these discussions, it's meaningless.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Both sides will never be happy, Its why I stay around with all these discussions, it's meaningless.

Sometimes, it's incredibly entertaining.

Also usually a good venue to try out new witticisms.

[Vicky82]

I'm calling out you and Vicky82 for not accepting other's opinions and reaching out to excuse the flaws of this show.

What about other people who don't accept my opinions, I moaned about certain things and people question me.

So we all go round in circles.

[Amaranthus]

and I'm calling you out for not respecting other's opinions, you can keep at it, you'll just go around in circles.

I do respect other's opinions. I never once tried to prove someone in this thread wrong.
Please do keep projecting though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Instead of hating on each other, you guys should go back to hating on Mona Lisa and Raphael. It was much more entertaining.

Dance, you puppets! DANCE FOR MY AMUSEMENT!!!

[victory_angel]

victoryangel asked:
I have noticed some people discussing how the episodes for TMNT are coming across as rushed. I am aware that with a 22 minute episode that there are things that are going to be cut for time, or because they would be seen as too violent for a kids show. Can you walk us through the process of writing an episode for Ninja Turtles?

The standard production script for a 30 minute episode is 25-32 pages long.

Peter Di Cicco:
The writing process is pretty intense because we’re generally working on around five different stories in different stages of drafts, not including the 26+ episodes in various stages of production. But for each episode, the stages are laid out into premise, outline, 1st draft, 2nd draft, and record draft, which is the final version that gets recorded by the actors and given to the storyboard artists to start boarding.
One of the great challenges I personally have as a writer is timing the script so that it will work in under 22 minutes (I think if you account for the main title, we only have 21 minutes of actual show time now). And one thing you have to understand about television (at least, basic cable) is shows have to deliver precisely on time. They can’t be even 30 seconds over or under.
Once we see the show in animatic form, stuff almost always ends up getting cut or rewritten for time. Sometimes it actually helps the pacing, sometimes you just need to lose things. You’d be amazed how much a minute or even just 30 seconds of screen time can be.

[TigerClaw]

victoryangel asked:
I have noticed some people discussing how the episodes for TMNT are coming across as rushed. I am aware that with a 22 minute episode that there are things that are going to be cut for time, or because they would be seen as too violent for a kids show. Can you walk us through the process of writing an episode for Ninja Turtles?

The standard production script for a 30 minute episode is 25-32 pages long.

Peter Di Cicco:
The writing process is pretty intense because we’re generally working on around five different stories in different stages of drafts, not including the 26+ episodes in various stages of production. But for each episode, the stages are laid out into premise, outline, 1st draft, 2nd draft, and record draft, which is the final version that gets recorded by the actors and given to the storyboard artists to start boarding.
One of the great challenges I personally have as a writer is timing the script so that it will work in under 22 minutes (I think if you account for the main title, we only have 21 minutes of actual show time now). And one thing you have to understand about television (at least, basic cable) is shows have to deliver precisely on time. They can’t be even 30 seconds over or under.
Once we see the show in animatic form, stuff almost always ends up getting cut or rewritten for time. Sometimes it actually helps the pacing, sometimes you just need to lose things. You’d be amazed how much a minute or even just 30 seconds of screen time can be.
That pretty much explains why things feel rushed, they have to somehow cram a story within the 22 minutes of runtime.

[Powder]

Just like literally every other creative team who works on a cartoon. Is that seriously new/enlightening information to you?

[Amaranthus]

Just like literally every other creative team who works on a cartoon. Is that seriously new/enlightening information to you?

You should be used to TigerClaw stating the obvious by now.
I'm still recovering from this post he made.
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1533870&postcount=287

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You should be used to TigerClaw stating the obvious by now.
I'm still recovering from this post he made.
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1533870&postcount=287

He does math so you don't have to.

[BabyTurtles]

That pretty much explains why things feel rushed, they have to somehow cram a story within the 22 minutes of runtime.

Just because they have to work with only 22 minutes doesn't mean thats an excuse for an episode to feel rushed....I mean every half hour cartoon has to deal with this in some way.

[NoName999]

Here's an idea for the creative team:

Don't try to cram so much stuff

Now where's my paycheck

[MikeandRaph87]

I was thinking, if Kerma was to ever be used outside of the original cartoon this is the place ro do it.

[CyberCubed]

I didn't think this episode was rushed at all. It moved at a good pace.

[Powder]

I agree. Felt just fine to me. 4kids dragged things out too long, I felt, so I like that the Nick series condenses their plots a little bit.

[TigerClaw]

It cost a lot of money to produce these episodes, so they gotta cut some corners like moving forward the passage of time. they traveled 6 months into the past, so they probably skipped like a month or 2 in between the time they were in space.

Though I don't know if they are following the rules of time in space, in which time passes differently depending on where you are in space.

[Vicky82]

I didn't think this episode was rushed at all. It moved at a good pace.

It's not the episode that's rushed, it's Raph's and Mona Lisa romance that is rushed.

If Mona Lisa was in all 13 episodes of the Space Arc then there romance would be spread out.

If Mona Lisa was a main character in the show (like every other episode) then her romance with Raph would be spread out.

But she's in only in a couple of episodes in the Space Arc, most probably due to Zelda's contract/availability, timing, focus on the main story and of course they had only 20 episodes at the times before Nick ordered 6 more, so that's probably why they had to rush her's and Raph's relationship.

I also don't think Mona Lisa will be in any more episodes after the Space Arc anyway So I expect her last episode could be the mid season 2 part episode and we probably won't see her again after that.

[TigerClaw]

It's not the episode that's rushed, it's Raph's and Mona Lisa romance that is rushed.

If Mona Lisa was in all 13 episodes of the Space Arc then there romance would be spread out.

If Mona Lisa was a main character in the show (like every other episode) then her romance with Raph would be spread out.

But she's in only in a couple of episodes in the Space Arc, most probably due to Zelda's contract/availability, timing, focus on the main story and of course they had only 20 episodes at the times before Nick ordered 6 more, so that's probably why they had to rush her's and Raph's relationship.

I also don't think Mona Lisa will be in any more episodes after the Space Arc anyway So I expect her last episode could be the mid season 2 part episode and we probably won't see her again after that.
it didn't felt rush to me, I'm enjoying the whole Raph and Mona Lisa thing, Its cute and Ramona will probably trend even more then Apritello

[Vicky82]

it didn't felt rush to me, I'm enjoying the whole Raph and Mona Lisa thing, Its cute.

Yeah i'm enjoying it, Raph and Mona Lisa are adorable but it's a shame she's only been in 2 episodes so far and we don't know how many episodes she's got left.

[TigerClaw]

Yeah i'm enjoying it, Raph and Mona Lisa are adorable but it's a shame she's only been in 2 episodes so far and we don't know how many episodes she's got left.
By the end of this episode, they got the locations for the last piece of the black hole generator, I have a feeling she and Sal Commander will help them along the way.

[Vicky82]

By the end of this episode, they got the locations for the last piece of the black hole generator, I have a feeling she and Sal Commander will help them along the way.

I doubt it, they more likely to keep the Triceratons busy so the Turtles can get the other 2 pieces.

[TigerClaw]

I doubt it, they more likely to keep the Triceratons busy so the Turtles can get the other 2 pieces.
I bet Mona Lisa will show up in the final episode of the space arc, I bet it'll be emotional, especially for Raph.

[Vicky82]

I bet Mona Lisa will show up in the final episode of the space arc, I bet it'll be emotional, especially for Raph.

I expect she be in 1 or 2 episodes before the mid season final and yes I think it will be emotional.

[ssjup81]

I didn't think this episode was rushed at all. It moved at a good pace.I honestly felt the same way about the pacing. I even liked the Raph stuff with Mona Lisa. It was funny to me because of those around them. I like softy Raph, and how do we know it's out of character? Maybe for Mirage Raph it would be. Maybe for OT Raph it would be. Maybe for IDW Raph it would be. Maybe for 2K3 Raph it would be, etc. Maybe for this iteration of Raph in this incarnation it wouldn't be.

[THGhost]

"Oh for the love of Krang!"

Awesome episode. Great seeing Bishop again and finally finding out whether or not Kraang Prime is in fact the Nick equivalent to the 80s Krang; and what their gender is. :P

I really missed Gilbert Gottfried's voice, but now he's gone?:ksad:

Nope, this episode didn't feel rushed at all. It was weird how Leo and Donnie both vanished for a few mins though.

[neatoman]

"Oh for the love of Krang!"

Awesome episode. Great seeing Bishop again and finally finding out whether or not Kraang Prime is in fact the Nick equivalent to the 80s Krang; and what their gender is. :P

I really missed Gilbert Gottfried's voice, but now he's gone?:ksad:

Nope, this episode didn't feel rushed at all. It was weird how Leo and Donnie both vanished for a few mins though.

Kraang Sub-Prime "dies" in every single episode he's in, it's like the fourth or fifth time now, I don't we've seen the last of him.

[Ceres]

Kraang Sub-Prime "dies" in every single episode he's in, it's like the fourth or fifth time now, I don't we've seen the last of him.

especially when he will reappear in the Crossover Episodes of the space arc. There he will be seen again, this time with 80´s Krang together.

[TigerClaw]

Apparently Brandon Auman was getting hate from some fans over the whole Raph and Mona Lisa thing.
http://theellsassinjedininja5.tumblr.com/post/138577782437/stop-the-mona-lisa-hate

[Sabacooza]

He deserves all the hate he gets for making Raph pregnant and giving birth to their babies if what I read was true. Horrible! Just Horrible!

I hope to God he's joking.

[Utrommaniac]

It was obviously a joke, since he was saying it would happen in this episode.

[Amaranthus]

What the hell?
How can he not be joking. What the hell is wrong with you guys?

[ranger_scout]

The latest episode was probably my favorite of this season. The chemistry between Raph and Mona Lisa is just perfect. I thought they were finally going to give Irma a break until her final scene where she met her unfortunate fate.

[THGhost]

Kraang Sub-Prime "dies" in every single episode he's in, it's like the fourth or fifth time now, I don't we've seen the last of him.

I hope so. We just didn't see him alive at the end is all. Guess I got caught up in the moment and forgot that of course he'll be back.

The latest episode was probably my favorite of this season. The chemistry between Raph and Mona Lisa is just perfect. I thought they were finally going to give Irma a break until her final scene where she met her unfortunate fate.

Sorry Irma fans. All 2 of you. :P

[Sabacooza]

Okay,so he was joking. I still can't stand the guy.

[Ursalink]

You know, after discovering the secret origin of the Kraangs in the previous episode, I have to say, I was suspecting something similar the moment that the Utroms debuted.

My theory was quite similar. The Utroms were originally good, but then one of them (Kraang) went corrupted (just like Sh'rell) and became a monster. He mutated himself to became the giant we know, and then he cloned himself into an army. Almost hit the jackpot, except he brainwashed the Utroms instead of cloning himself.

You know?, this gives an idea about how to defeat the Kraangs. If I'm right, Kraang Prime is a mutant Utrom. So, if the turtles could use their "super-retromutagen" (the same one they used to cure the mutated human-kraangs) in the battle for New York, they could revert him back into a regular Utrom. That action could also undo his telephatic powers and revert the other Kraangs into free individual Utroms. Of course, there will still be ones who remain as Kraangs, but this could really help the Utroms to save their future.

What do you think?

[CyberCubed]

Apparently Brandon Auman was getting hate from some fans over the whole Raph and Mona Lisa thing.
http://theellsassinjedininja5.tumblr.com/post/138577782437/stop-the-mona-lisa-hate

Reading what TMNT fangirls say on tumblr gives me the goosebumps. Man, it goes to show you how different their fandom is than here. Its probably because the Nick cartoon is their first exposure to TMNT so they view it like anime or Legend of Korra or something.

[ssjup81]

Reading what TMNT fangirls say on tumblr gives me the goosebumps. Man, it goes to show you how different their fandom is than here. Its probably because the Nick cartoon is their first exposure to TMNT so they view it like anime or Legend of Korra or something.What's that supposed to mean? Gummi Bears started in 1985. I was young and at like 8 I didn't realize it, but I shipped Cavin and Callah (sp?) together. I even wrote a fic, something else I didn't realize until the Internet, for my mom that had time travel and ended up in the Gummi Bears universe. I wrote that the two above liked each other. I was maybe 10 or so?

Anime or no anime, people will always like the idea of some ships for shows, comics, stories, etc., and regardless of the fandom, it'll always have a subset of fans that'll have you scratching your head. It's not exclusive to the fandoms that are around now.

[ssjup81]

You know, after discovering the secret origin of the Kraangs in the previous episode, I have to say, I was suspecting something similar the moment that the Utroms debuted.

My theory was quite similar. The Utroms were originally good, but then one of them (Kraang) went corrupted (just like Sh'rell) and became a monster. He mutated himself to became the giant we know, and then he cloned himself into an army. Almost hit the jackpot, except he brainwashed the Utroms instead of cloning himself.

You know?, this gives an idea about how to defeat the Kraangs. If I'm right, Kraang Prime is a mutant Utrom. So, if the turtles could use their "super-retromutagen" (the same one they used to cure the mutated human-kraangs) in the battle for New York, they could revert him back into a regular Utrom. That action could also undo his telephatic powers and revert the other Kraangs into free individual Utroms. Of course, there will still be ones who remain as Kraangs, but this could really help the Utroms to save their future.

What do you think?I think you may be onto something. Interesting theory.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Anyone know if there has been any news about a Mona Lisa action figure?

[TigerClaw]

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Childhood-Trauma-582373454

http://pre15.deviantart.net/2ce4/th/pre/i/2016/004/5/5/tmnt___childhood_trauma_by_myrling-d9mqa8e.png

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

http://pre06.deviantart.net/ff78/th/pre/i/2016/034/c/c/tmnt___snoozy_by_myrling-d9qeezn.png

[cryan]

That was great.

[ssjup81]

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Childhood-Trauma-582373454

http://pre15.deviantart.net/2ce4/th/pre/i/2016/004/5/5/tmnt___childhood_trauma_by_myrling-d9mqa8e.png

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

http://pre06.deviantart.net/ff78/th/pre/i/2016/034/c/c/tmnt___snoozy_by_myrling-d9qeezn.pngThis was hilarious. :tlol:

[GoldMutant]

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. :lol: Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:



Start with Raphael and Mona having a fight in Moons
Raph is either outclassed due to Mona's advanced training or a nice even fight.
To go full circle of Raph making fun of the crushes, have him seek advice from the group on love lifes. Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.
The two meet up during the Ice Dragon battle; Raph desires to have her open up. Fights in a badass fashion.
Mona still hates him, but when the two freeze, Raph protects Mona from freezing.
The two begin to respect each others skills; no relationship kiss yet, but a hug or handshake.
Possibly throughout the episodes before this, Raph thinks about Mona a little wondering about her. (this is a definite maybe)
Now in War for Dimension X, repeat up to the detention center.
Raph is shocked to see Mona Lisa again and attempts to break her out. Hint Mona has gone nicer.
The two work together on the Dractoids, demonstrate their growth in teamwork.
Either have them kiss, or end the episode with something cute.


The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. :() but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.

[Vicky82]

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. :lol: Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:

The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. :() but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.

I guess you missed this but it's more or less the same. ;)

It's not the episode that's rushed, it's Raph's and Mona Lisa romance that is rushed.

If Mona Lisa was in all 13 episodes of the Space Arc then there romance would be spread out.

If Mona Lisa was a main character in the show (like every other episode) then her romance with Raph would be spread out.

But she's in only in a couple of episodes in the Space Arc, most probably due to Zelda's contract/availability, timing, focus on the main story and of course they had only 20 episodes at the times before Nick ordered 6 more, so that's probably why they had to rush her's and Raph's relationship.

I also don't think Mona Lisa will be in any more episodes after the Space Arc anyway So I expect her last episode could be the mid season 2 part episode and we probably won't see her again after that.

I do admit it is rushed but I can understand why it is rushed but I just forget about it and focus more on how adorable Raph and Mona Lisa's romance is.

Also someone on Tumble wrote this, which is pretty interesting

(i'll quote the main ones)

Lets start with this first comment. Yes Im breaking this down FOR ME! NOT TO BE MEAN. So please, feel free to leave, as I said up above.

“Because we obviously know nothing about her. Raph knows nothing about Mona or her personality. He only knows that she can fight. He likes her look. That’s not love. That’s lust.”

Well considering they are both reptiles, and not all human, these two acted on animal instincts, and in the animal kingdom, its kind of run on instincts.
Now we know shes a high strong, shes blunt and to the point, which is why he likes her, she doesnt like taking other peoples crap, which is another quality he would like about her. So there are two quailities I just listed of her personailty. Lets also add in that, she is honorable, that is a quality they both share. Also, who cares if its lust or love, these two have been canon since 1980, since Raphael Meets His Match aired. Just letting you know on that infomation.

“I hate their rushed and forced relationship.”

Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion or whatever, but Im gonna let you in on a secret…..THIS RELATIONSHIP WAS NEVER FORCED. you wanna see forced? Leorai, Miket, hell even freaking Apriltello is forced. Why, because unlike the other 3 pairings, we’ve seen Raph and Mona together, before in the 80s series. Which is why it feels natural, just in a different version.
The relationship rushed? now see thats where it depends, Raphael didnt just like her off the bat, vice versa. They both were trying to kick each others ass. And then, it hit him…..literally. Relationships are different in many ways. For example… Apriltello, one sided love, Donnie has been infatuated with this girl since season one. It took 3 seasons for these two to kiss, and they are still not together. The difference is, April and Donnie like to beat around the bush, while Mona and Raph are very blunt and up front characters. He told her, she told him, they both grew fond of each other. Lets not forget that we gotta think about how long they have not seen each other. Raphael even said that he didnt even think he’d ever see her again, so yes they reunite with a few kisses.

http://tmntfandom2012.tumblr.com/post/138663063592/its-not-their-fault

Even though all the abuse that Brandon got (over Raph and Mona) is disgusting, he is stupid for going on and on about it more and irritating more and more fans.

[Aaronardo]

Why are you reaching to Tumblr for critical analysis of anything? I mean, I'm legitimately curious, because other than 1, maybe 2 percent of the people on that website, people on there act like they know everything, then try to prove it, and come off as extremely stupid. Now excuse me while I pick this apart.

Lets start with this first comment. Yes Im breaking this down FOR ME! NOT TO BE MEAN. So please, feel free to leave, as I said up above.

"Don't Like Don't Read" bull. Okay, lemme get into the actual stuff. :lol:

Well considering they are both reptiles, and not all human, these two acted on animal instincts, and in the animal kingdom, its kind of run on instincts.

If you're gonna apply real-world logic to this, than you're suggesting a turtle and a salamander would totally go at it in the wild. That's a nice thought. :trolleye:

Now we know shes a high strong, shes blunt and to the point, which is why he likes her, she doesnt like taking other peoples crap, which is another quality he would like about her.

...which is why I hate this pairing. We have this perfect pairing, and yet neither Raph nor Mona ever mentions to the other how they like it when the other does "this" or "that." Thus, there's just no development. They spend an entire 20-minute episode together, and every other time they're on screen, they're kissing. That's not appreciating someone for who they are, that's just saying "hey, you're cute, let's f*ck."

Also, who cares if its lust or love, these two have been canon since 1980, since Raphael Meets His Match aired. Just letting you know on that infomation.

Yeah, because the OT and the Nick shows are TOTALLY in the same universe, even when there's an established (canon, if you care to use that word. Which I don't), multiverse between TMNT, which the Nick show is clearly falling through with as we can see with storyboards featuring the OT and Nick Turtles meeting. Basically, you're referring to a completely different Raphael, a completely different Mona Lisa, and you're referring to a filler episode to a show that never addresses Mona ever again anyway.

you wanna see forced? Leorai, Miket, hell even freaking Apriltello is forced. Why, because unlike the other 3 pairings, we’ve seen Raph and Mona together, before in the 80s series.

Idiocy at its finest. I'll just go ahead and redirect you to my previous comment about that last sentence. So, yeah, I can see Mikey and Renet (that damn pairing is why I gave up on the romance in this show), but Leo and Karai? They technically aren't even a pairing, and that's the genius of it. They're not in any full-on relationship. Any love they have has been built up over time, since New Girl In Town. Saying that pairing is forced means you pretty much don't know the first thing about the relationships in this show.

As for Apriltello, yeah, it is forced. Which is why it never happens. Other than that tease at the end of A Foot Too Big, which is an episode I try to forget about, Donnie tries to impress April due to his "love at first sight" bull, but can't pull it off because he doesn't really love her. I feel like there's something else I need to address, but it really is just that simple.

I pretty much addressed that entire post. It really just doesn't have a leg to stand on, and has points that have been shot down on this very thread many times. And with stuff like this normally getting posted on Tumblr, I need to ask again... why turn to Tumblr? I mean, that's normally the kind of post you see. Someone who thinks they know what they're talking about, when they haven't the slightest clue.

[Vicky82]

Can we just drop this now, I don't want to keep going on and on about this anymore, it's getting boring, not until the next episode Mona Lisa is in anyway. ;)

Also with the cartoon on a small break my mind has switched over the movie now as the Superbowl tv spot and 2nd trailer are coming out soon.

[CyberCubed]

The words "tumblr" and "shipping" used together will lead you down a dark and scary path of teenage and 20 something year old shippers minds.

[GoldMutant]

The words "tumblr" and "shipping" used together will lead you down a dark and scary path of teenage and 20 something year old shippers minds.

Cube, that's why we have you with that! :P (two words: Supergirl thread. Four more words, A Day inside May)

Mostly just wanted to explain myself is all, I am honest. :trazz: Note to self though, never look up fangirls involving the show.

[Sabacooza]

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. :lol: Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:



The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. :() but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.I agree with this. My main beef is everything is so forced with them sucking face and Raph was portrayed as the girl of the relationship with the way he acted. They didn't make the other turtles the girl of the relationship so it wasn't needed here plain and simple. It could've been handled any number of ways making it better than what we got. Instead, they chose to do something cringe worthy.

[CyberCubed]

Why is Raph seeming like the girl of the relationship bad? Mona Lisa is tough and taller than Ash. Its refreshing not see a guy be dominate in a relationship for once.

You seem to think this makes Raph into some "feminine man" or something.

[TigerClaw]

What attracted Raph to Mona Lisa, was not cause of her looks, it's cause she could kick his ass.

[Amaranthus]

What attracted Raph to Mona Lisa, was not cause of her looks, it's cause she could kick his ass.

Too bad their relationship is nothing but kissing now. If you can even call that a relationship.

[Shark_Blade]

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Childhood-Trauma-582373454

http://pre15.deviantart.net/2ce4/th/pre/i/2016/004/5/5/tmnt___childhood_trauma_by_myrling-d9mqa8e.png

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

http://pre06.deviantart.net/ff78/th/pre/i/2016/034/c/c/tmnt___snoozy_by_myrling-d9qeezn.png
Aww so cute. Epic art style! :tlove:

[Sabacooza]

You seem to think this makes Raph into some "feminine man" or something.He raised up his leg when kissed and was dipped back and kissed all of which are characteristics typically associated with women so yes, he was feminized which was totally unnecessary.

[Powder]

So what? All the turtles have a new dynamic like that. Leo is a geek, Raph has his squishy side, Donnie is a fussy fedora, & Mikey's hyperactive. These qualities add new dimension to the characters.

[Sabacooza]

I guess if my favorite were Leo, I'd have nothing to complain about. Hell, even Mikey's was handled better.

What I'm saying is, Raph having a soft side is not an issue with me but why must it be handled this way? Why can't he show a soft side without doing things or having things done to him that would normally happen for women? The issue is how it's done. It's the execution.

[Powder]

It's not a matter of who your favorite turtle is, but rather your attitude towards the series. One could complain about various things that are unique to this version of any given turtle that could be perceived as "off" or "untrue", or one could choose to think of them as new elements that add to the existing formula, rather than take away.

I don't know where you're going with the whole woman's circumstance thing, but it should be obvious that they're clearly playing up certain things for comedic effect. A tough guy character having a girly moment or two has long been done to get laughs. Leonardo has had tea parties with Chloe, girl talk with April, been emasculated & played for a fool by Karai, but you don't see me complaining. The fact these things are a part of him only humanizes him further. Being perfectly heroic or totally macho is unrealistic.

I'm probably wasting my time, 'cause some of you Raph fans refuse to budge from this silly notion that Nick's creative team is making a deliberate effort to mess him up.

[Papenbrook]

So what? All the turtles have a new dynamic like that. Leo is a geek, Raph has his squishy side, Donnie is a fussy fedora, & Mikey's hyperactive. These qualities add new dimension to the characters.

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

[Autbot_Benz]

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

It is not offensive what they did with Raph you just get offended by everything you SJW Wuss

http://i63.tinypic.com/ffbud2.jpg

[Sabacooza]

It's not a matter of who your favorite turtle is, but rather your attitude towards the series. One could complain about various things that are unique to this version of any given turtle that could be perceived as "off" or "untrue", or one could choose to think of them as new elements that add to the existing formula, rather than take away.

I don't know where you're going with the whole woman's circumstance thing, but it should be obvious that they're clearly playing up certain things for comedic effect. A tough guy character having a girly moment or two has long been done to get laughs. Leonardo has had tea parties with Chloe, girl talk with April, been emasculated & played for a fool by Karai, but you don't see me complaining. The fact these things are a part of him only humanizes him further. Being perfectly heroic or totally macho is unrealistic.

I'm probably wasting my time, 'cause some of you Raph fans refuse to budge from this silly notion that Nick's creative team is making a deliberate effort to mess him up. Good. Don't waste your time then. I'm set in my ways and you're set in yours. So what.

Are they screwing up the character on purpose? Maybe not but It sure as hell looks like it.

[Powder]

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

You're right, I can't be wrong, because it is my opinion. Besides, peanut, with the way your mind operates, you telling me I'm wrong carries little weight. You think everyone on earth is wrong unless they adhere to SJW ideology & hugbox mentalities. Which is of course where the irony of your post comes into play.

Being bothered that Raph has things happen to him that normally happen to women seems a pretty strong suggestion of disliking feminine qualities in Raphael. How you of all people fail to see any sexist element in that line of thinking genuinely astounds me. I mean, wow, either you're a decent troll after all, or one of the most dense progressives around. The fact that Raph doing something a girl may do is "offensive & harmful" to you is absolutely ridiculous. We're supposed to be knocking down gender roles in 2016, not reinforcing them, no? Raph's not afraid of being thought of as girly, that's forward-thinking.

By all means, if I'm misinterpreting the issue here, fill me in. Seems like a bunch of nonsense from where I'm standing at present.

Actually yes, I'll go as far to say that they are sabotaging the character. It's not hard to see.

You & Rambo are the only people I've seen out of thousands with this conspiracy. I don't see it.

[Papenbrook]

You're right, I can't be wrong, because it is my opinion. Besides, peanut, with the way your mind operates, you telling me I'm wrong carries little weight. You think everyone on earth is wrong unless they adhere to SJW ideology & hugbox mentalities. Which is of course where the irony of your post comes into play.

Being bothered that Raph has things happen to him that normally happen to women seems a pretty strong suggestion of disliking feminine qualities in Raphael. How you of all people fail to see any sexist element in that line of thinking genuinely astounds me. I mean, wow, either you're a decent troll after all, or one of the most dense progressives around. The fact that Raph doing something a girl may do is "offensive & harmful" to you is absolutely ridiculous. We're supposed to be knocking down gender roles in 2016, not reinforcing them, no? Raph's not afraid of being thought of as girly, that's forward-thinking.

By all means, if I'm misinterpreting the issue here, fill me in. Seems like a bunch of nonsense from where I'm standing at present.
You are misinterpreting it.

I have no problem with Raph showing feminine qualities. I have a problem with its ACTUAL PORTRAYAL.

The show displays those effeminate qualities in a COMEDIC fashion. The writers are basically mocking men/boys who act/emphasize female attributes. They portray it as an embarrassing experience that anybody should laugh at, because society DOESN'T like men who are "feminine". It is honestly disgusting and depressing at the same time.

You want to know why men don't want to emphasize feminine qualities? Because of portrayals like THIS! THIS is one of the ways that the media(and society as a whole) make sure that males don't "act feminine". It REINFORCES that femininity is valued less than masculinity.

[Shark_Blade]

He raised up his leg when kissed and was dipped back and kissed all of which are characteristics typically associated with women so yes, he was feminized which was totally unnecessary.Sounds like you're insecured with your own feminine side tbh. :trazz:

I like Raph even more now cause he's more open and honest of who he really is. They did a great job with his character imo.

[Sabacooza]

You & Rambo are the only people I've seen out of thousands with this conspiracy. I don't see it.I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.:P

Sounds like you're insecured with your own feminine side tbh. :trazz:lol: You're a fine one to talk.

[Papenbrook]

I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.:P

Yep, like CyberCubed...

[Powder]

The show displays those effeminate qualities in a COMEDIC fashion. The writers are basically mocking men/boys who act/emphasize female attributes. They portray it as an embarrassing experience that anybody should laugh at, because society DOESN'T like men who are "feminine". It is honestly disgusting and depressing at the same time.

You want to know why men don't want to emphasize feminine qualities? Because of portrayals like THIS! THIS is one of the ways that the media(and society as a whole) make sure that males don't "act feminine". It REINFORCES that femininity is valued less than masculinity.

The show is comedy/action. That is it's genre. It shows almost everything in a comedic fashion, you goofball! Casey Jones thought the world ending was "awesome", simple & plain, it's the tone of this series. How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments. Please, tell me. From where I'm standing, they've shown that the brute & the leader can do all sorts of "effeminate" sh*t & still kick major ass & get things done. What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? Further still, Mikey loves unicorns, stuffed animals, rainbows, all types of stuff that invokes the thought of girls cartoons from the 80's, among other things. When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing? You have nothing.

I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.:P


Oh f**k off, mate. I've had my share of criticisms.

[Papenbrook]

The show is comedy/action. That is it's genre. It shows almost everything in a comedic fashion, you goofball! Casey Jones thought the world ending was "awesome", simple & plain, it's the tone of this series. How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments. Please, tell me. From where I'm standing, they've shown that the brute & the leader can do all sorts of "effeminate" sh*t & still kick major ass & get things done. What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? Further still, Mikey loves unicorns, stuffed animals, rainbows, all types of stuff that invokes the thought of girls cartoons from the 80's, among other things. When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing? You have nothing.

So, because the show portrays almost every aspect of itself as "comedic", that makes its insulting portrayal of "effeminate" men okay?

Thank you for proving my point. Here's one of my older posts.

By choosing to stay silent while this issue takes place, we are choosing to conform to society's standards. We are are choosing to reject the future that we have to build. The cycle will repeat, and more people will suffer.

In modern society, as a result of our patriarchal structure, having feminine attributes is usually seen as a sign of weakness. With masculine attributes, an individual will usually get praised. This usually affects men, but it can sometimes affect women as well.

[Powder]

Not only are you blind to how humor works, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Here are my questions for you again.

How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments? What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing?


Literally never in the series have any of these "feminine traits" been made to be a sign of weakness & you have yet to so much as attempt to prove otherwise let alone actually do it. Give me some examples or climb the f**k down off that moral high horse.

[Papenbrook]

Not only are you blind to how humor works, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Here are my questions for you again.



Literally never in the series have any of these "feminine traits" been made to be a sign of weakness & you have yet to so much as attempt to prove otherwise let alone actually do it. Give me some examples or climb the f**k down off that moral high horse.

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

[Powder]

-Heteosexual men do not typically enjoy kissing other men on the lips. It doesn't show that a man kissing another man is disgusting, it shows that one particular character was horrified to find out he'd been macking on his nemesis. It would be no different than if they had revealed they were of another species or something when the skin came off. Living a lie. Spooky stuff. That, by the way, has nothing to do with women being shown in a poor light. Nice try.

-It's funny because it's out of character for him. They're seeing Raph lovestruck & acting on those emotional impulses without thought for how he appears. It's amusing for them to see their brother with his guard down in a romantic context.

You're just another SJW tryhard looking for trouble, peanut.

[CyberCubed]

Sabacooza also seriously believed Brandon was serious when he joked that Raphael would get pregnant with Mona Lisa's babies. And he posted an angry rant about it before he edited it.

I mean, he took something that was clearly intended to be a joke on Brandon's instragram, (do you seriously believe they'd have implied sex on a kids show, let alone Raph being the one to get pregnant?), and threw an angry rant over it. The fact that he couldn't tell that was a joke when everyone else did shows he's on some bizarre conspiracy theory that the Nick writers hate Raphael.

[victory_angel]

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)

It it was simply disgust kissing a man I would agree with you. But Bradford says that he (the cartoon Character) has been a relationship with Faleisha for three years. Which means he has likely done more then just kiss her. It's only in that one instant that he noticed that she had man breath. And even then the disgust is not so much the fact he just kissed another guy...it was the fact the woman he believed he loved had been nothing but a rubber suit.

I think April has the best reaction to the show because her expression just screams

"What did I just watch?"



- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/f8/c0/48/f8c04854dabbaecbc95c3522b3c7ba97.jpg

Only April and Mikey laughed and but that was more "Aww that's so cute" laughter.

Sal Commander covers Mikey's eyes as though saying "You are too young to be watching this."

Casey was reacting in disgust while Donnie and Leo both had shocked "Did that just happen?" expressions.

[TurtleTitan97]

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

:trolleye: Just when I think you can't surprise us anymore, you go ahead and just say more nonsense, more ridiculous than the last.

Seriously, get a new shtick. Your SJW routine has gotten majorly stale.

[ToTheNines]

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

- So he was basically raped and he is supposed to be ok with it? Awww, shouldn't offend his arch nemesis like that!

- But the thing is, Raph isn't ashamed of it. And no one is making fun of him for his role in the relationship, just razzing him for having a girlfriend.

[Kingoji]

There's no shame in it at all. It's played for laughs, but that doesn't make it 'problematic' or whatever. It's a traditional trope of comedy that you take someone established as one thing and then briefly show them as the opposite. Otherwise Savage Mikey would be character assassination, or Donny being reduced to a giggling mess.

Raphael was always my favourite Turtle since I was a wee 'un in the iron ages. This series is the first time he isn't, but it's not because they've done anything 'wrong' with him, it's just that they managed to do something new and interesting enough with someone else for him to be usurped. truth be told, I think this is probably the best depiction of Raphael we've ever had, because he's a seemless blend of all the other personality types he's been given over the years in a single believable package.

Plus, y'know, they did a pretty good job of informing the viewer that one of the main reasons he's attracted to Mona Lisa is because she's so damned alpha. If that's what he likes about her, he's going to embrace it by giving her control. So what if they do it in a way designed to crack your frown?

[Prototype]

Raph and Y'Gythgba are cute together, and this is in fact the only valid opinion.
The only thing about their romance that is actually wrong is that Raph behaves/moves typically like a woman (raising one foot like a princess etc) when they perform kissy-noses on each other.


Season 4 has been nothing but a disappointment.

Just thought about that too, I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I feel that "the more spectacular, the less interesting".

I'm suprised too say this, but the earthly sewers of NY is the most suitable environment for ninjutsu turtles.

Seasons 1&2 somehow had more deepth and character.

[Powder]

There's no shame in it at all. It's played for laughs, but that doesn't make it 'problematic' or whatever. It's a traditional trope of comedy that you take someone established as one thing and then briefly show them as the opposite. Otherwise Savage Mikey would be character assassination, or Donny being reduced to a giggling mess.

Raphael was always my favourite Turtle since I was a wee 'un in the iron ages. This series is the first time he isn't, but it's not because they've done anything 'wrong' with him, it's just that they managed to do something new and interesting enough with someone else for him to be usurped. truth be told, I think this is probably the best depiction of Raphael we've ever had, because he's a seemless blend of all the other personality types he's been given over the years in a single believable package.

Plus, y'know, they did a pretty good job of informing the viewer that one of the main reasons he's attracted to Mona Lisa is because she's so damned alpha. If that's what he likes about her, he's going to embrace it by giving her control. So what if they do it in a way designed to crack your frown?

A perfect post, thank you.

[MikeandRaph87]

Just to confirm, Wikipedia has February 28th as the next new episode? There was no new episode on my DVR after church.

What is the overall opinion of the 'Drome on the Turtles In Space arc?

[CyberCubed]

J
What is the overall opinion of the 'Drome on the Turtles In Space arc?

Its pretty good. Even the fillers (the Wyrm and the Bellybomb ep) were fun.

[Powder]

Just to confirm, Wikipedia has February 28th as the next new episode? There was no new episode on my DVR after church.

What is the overall opinion of the 'Drome on the Turtles In Space arc?

There will be no new episodes until March, according to Brandon. Never ever go by Wiki pages or IMDB.

[Prototype]

they're clearly playing up certain things for comedic effect.

I take it that the writers deem innocent belivable romance to be intimately vulgar, explicit or somehow unsuitable to the audience. Hence they turn to the awful technique of so called "comic" relief. Of all the cheap tricks...

Why not go all the way and make Raph a temporary transvestite while we're at it? Lets get rid of those old sais and throw him a handbag. Ouh, and high heels, a crossdressing ninja mutant fumbling around in high heels, all concerned about his lipstick...now that would crack me up!!

The love-thing was cute, there was no need to goof it up. I hardly think anyone laughed his or hers arse off anyway. A total misfire.

I pitty the fool who laugh when suggested to laugh by order of comic relief.

Warning! Explicit content:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qb-9gpxhOw




What is the overall opinion of the 'Drome on the Turtles In Space arc?

Pretty cool, a bit too action packed to my taste. Lot's of things going on, story feels messy.
I would want more dialoge, character development, stuff like that. But that's just me.

[snake]

ITT- overthinking a childrens show

[MikeandRaph87]

The one thing that strikes me as odd is the devastation of an alien race wants to exterminate it's rival it follows it to a planet it is hiding on so the planet is successfully blown up. The billions of innocents native to the planet be darned. On top of that Shredder allows it to happen and him with it so he can kill Splinter before he dies himself with everyone else. Its like a DBZ like plot. Definitely violent yet the kiddie fare of the show mich more than the 1987 cartoon in parts despite it all shines bright. It's dark yet silly. Not sure what to make of it.

[Powder]

I take it that the writers deem innocent belivable romance to be intimately vulgar, explicit or somehow unsuitable to the audience. Hence they turn to the awful technique of so called "comic" relief. Of all the cheap tricks...

Why not go all the way and make Raph a temporary transvestite while we're at it? Lets get rid of those old sais and throw him a handbag. Ouh, and high heels, a crossdressing ninja mutant fumbling around in high heels, all concerned about his lipstick...now that would crack me up!!


You lot are disturbed. :roll: