Which was better: 'Turtles Forever' or Trans-dimensional Turtles

[turtlefanforever]

Now that they've both come out. Which do you think was better?

Turtles Forever movie from 2009, crossing over the 3 main incarnations of the turtles.

OR

Trans-Dimensional turtles episode of the 2012 series?

There's no blurred lines, only two options. Giving an equal is a cop out. You can explain yourself in the comments if you can't choose one.

[CyberCubed]

Turtles Forever being a movie obviously had more going on, and functioned as the series finale for the 2k3 series. We had more action, humor, more for the Prime Turtles, etc.

That being said I'm surprised how much Nick fit into Transdimensional Turtles. For only a 22 minute episode we got so much between the interaction of both Turtles, Krang, the Prime universe, Krang and Subprime interacting, the Turtles seeing Splinter again, etc.

I liked both, but Turtles Forever being an hour and a half movie gets the edge.

[Chabrendeki]

I really love both, both are fun, both have their merits -

I must confess, I love the Nick-show a little bit better, than the 4kids cartoon (I couldn't explain, why), BUT Trans-Dimensional Turtles is really rushed a bit, there is no time to build the story, and there was no time for a real Mirage-sequence. Since I'm hungarian as a child I watched the Fred Wolf cartoon with hungarian synchronisation, so the original voices are not so crucial for me.

So Turtles Forever is the better for me: the story is great and has the time to grow slowly, and the finale in the Mirage-verse is just epic.

[Jester]

My thoughts are kinda mixed. Turtles Forever was longer so we saw more of the teams playing off of each other. Turtles Forever had the FW series “On Model” and they looked great. The 2D versions of the Nick Turtles were nice, but the FW Turtles were WAY off model, and the animation was only marginally better than Strongbad. That being said, Trans-Dimensional Turtles had the original voice cast, and as a fan of those guys that makes me happy. I wish it had been a 2 parter so we could have had more time with the FW Turtles (and maybe the extended show would have had a higher budget). I guess we can hope the 2nd crossover (is Rob Paulsen’s tweet proves true) with Shredder and the Mutants will remedy the problems I had with Trans-Turtles.

[TMNTInsighter]

There should be a third option entitled "Tie" or something because that's how I feel. I honestly can't pick one over the other because they were both fun to watch.
...I guess there should also be a fourth option entitled "Neither".

[Mew]

Trans-Dimensional Turtles. The jokes were great, and I LOVED the Mirage segment. I thought the animation was pretty good. And the 3D Krang was awesome!

I actually thought that they just reused the ending clip and I was disappointed until Tiger Claw showed up!!!

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'd pick Trans-dimensional Turtles despite the fact that I loved turtles forever for the reasons:

1. Original voice actors returning
2. The whole 2D vs 3D element
3. Recreation of the old background music
4. The comic book style portrayal of the mirage universe as well as how the 2k12 and 80s versions of Donatello looked in it.
5. Perfectly accurate portrayal of the OT in comparison to Turtles forever which I think screwed up in that aspect. (please don't flame me for this one)

However, there are a number of things I like about Turtles Forever such as:
1. The length of the special
2. Appearances of more OT characters like Bebop and Rocksteady
3. The voice acting and self-narrating of the mirage characters which I thought was awesome
4. sheer scale of it in comparison to this episode when looking at things like plot and references.
5. Arguably the animation of the OT in turtles forever although the 2D in transdimensional turtles has grown on me and I think the 2012 turtles look better than the back to the sewers design 2k3 used in TF. I can't pick between the way mirage was animated in both specials, I'd say its a tie.

I thought both had a great story, animation, references, action scenes and comedy despite their flaws. Recommend both for all Turtles fans.

[Bry]

Oh, Turtles Forever, all the way.

I mean, they're both plenty enjoyable. But TF is an automatic win for me because it did it first, it did it bigger, and IMO, it did it better. Trans-Dimensional Turtles is basically a scaled-back remake of Turtles Forever, taking the same basic plot (current and '87 Turtles cross into each others' worlds and into the Mirage universe to stop one of their villains from destroying the multiverse), with a lot of the same jokes and character beats, while kind of rushing through it all in a standard episode. Turtles Forever went deeper and had a better story. And it felt more "special" in a way -- it gave cameos to (almost) every previous version of the characters and felt like a celebration of the entire franchise to that point. The Nick episode doesn't and can't compare to that.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles gets points for bringing back the original '87 cast, of course. The TF soundalikes do a pretty solid job, though. And it can be argued that the Nick episode represents those characters better -- I kind of think of it as Turtles Forever representing them and their world closer to the goofier/sillier seasons of that show, where the Nick episode shows them in a more "ideal" light closer to the earlier seasons -- but I don't think TF is all that inaccurate when it comes to representing the goofier version of that show (aside from a few especially mean-spirited moments, of course). I think how that plays with the viewer depends on personal preference and the rosiness of their glasses.

Everything beyond that, though? TF all the way. A better and fuller story, bigger stakes, much better 2D animation (the '87 animation looks perfect there, but looks off-model and cheap in the Nick episode), and it makes a point to represent the whole of the property where the Nick episode kinda cherry-picks and doesn't have time to get into much beyond Nick/'87 and a brief Mirage cameo.

[turtle1237]

It should be no contest imo. One insulted the old cartoon, by making em cowards and crying, and the other show respect to the cartoon.

[Wildcat]

This is an unfair comparison because TF is a full length movie/special. It could do more and develop the story better. Plus there's going to be another Nick-OT crossover so it's not really over.

I will say Trans-dimensional pretty much ripped off TF plot with destroying realities. I'm disappointed they just copied it like that. Unless they plan on linking everything together somehow which I doubt.

[Powder]

It's really hard to say, they beat each other in an equal amount of categories, I think.

I guess I'd go with Turtles Forever, due to it being longer, subsequently more in-depth, heavily involving the Mirage turtles, better animation, same reasons as everyone else. But I prefer the Nick turtles to the 4kids ones, I thought their FW references/homages were more clever, having the original voice cast was a HUGE plus, & I dunno, there was just a different mindset behind it that I can't quite articulate at present.

The new compliments the old wonderfully, it's a great companion piece. If one wins, it's by a nose, I love them both.

[DarkFell]

Turtles Forever -
*Weird plot idea done for the movie.
*2K3 TMNT dialogue was about as annoying as the OT TMNT dialogue in certain parts of the movie.

Overall pro - Great animation work done for the other characters of the TMNT universes, and a decent nod to the Mirage TMNT.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles -
*Another weird episode plot idea.
*The animation work done in both realities was okay for the most part (not totally sold on 3-D animated Krang, the odd-eyed 3-D OT Turtles, or Flash animated Nick TMNT & Kraang Sub-Prime although it is gradually growing on me. I've been re-watching the last episode.)

Overall pro - It was great to hear the original OT voice actors back for another round.

Overall not sure which one is better.

[Jester]

Part of me wonders if tone helped T-DT as well. The Nick series is a more humorous show than 4Kids TMNT ever dreamed of being, so there wasn't the tonal chasm between it and the FW series....maybe....

[Kingoji]

I'm giving this one to T-DT. I don't have the issues many have with TF, but I never held as much affection for the 2K TMNT as I do with both the original and Nick versions. It was servicable, but it's biggest flaw is T-DTs greatest strength: There's no point in doing a crossover with the 80s TMNT unless you're bringing the actors back. And while the FW TMNT aren't my favourite versions of the Turtles, they *were* my first, which makes them the most important and nostalgic for me.
Also, Pat Fraley.

[Shark_Blade]

Nick's of course. Duh.

Can't beat the original voice cast. Also it's actually funny and tonnes of OT references (like "gimme a break"). It also treats the OT turtles with faaar greater respect.

[neatoman]

It also treats the OT turtles with faaar greater respect.

Who cares?

[Kingoji]

Quite a lot of us, cheers.

[neatoman]

Well maybe, but it still points out that the FW cartoon is a lame piece of crap...

[DarkLightDragon]

Well maybe, but it still points out that the FW cartoon is a lame piece of crap...

Don't mind them. They still have rose-tinted glasses on.;)

But seriously, who gave more respect to FW than who is irrelevant to me and everytime I hear someone try to make it sound relevant, I just chill out and drink some good ol's tears.

[ToTheNines]

It was just as disrespectful to the Fred Wolf show than Turtles Forever was. Raph saying how lame their fights were, "enough with the turtle power already", pointing out that the plot didn't make sense.

And retconning Krang's origin without marrying it to the information we already had about his past. They completely ignored a ton of FW lore in attempting to make Krang a Nick Utrom.

[turtle1237]

It was just as disrespectful to the Fred Wolf show than Turtles Forever was. Raph saying how lame their fights were, "enough with the turtle power already", pointing out that the plot didn't make sense.

And retconning Krang's origin without marrying it to the information we already had about his past. They completely ignored a ton of FW lore in attempting to make Krang a Nick Utrom.

The Turtles in the old show at least said Turtle Power at least once a showing.

I can deal with the weapon comment, because lets be real, the rules of the 1980's.

Take He-man, he was allowed to show off his sword and look cool in victory poses, but god forbid he ever hit something with it. I thought the jab was pretty neat on how the old cartoons in general were held to a near impossible standard in regards to combat.

After season 1, the Turtles hardly every relied on there weapons unless they were dealing with robots, or cutting ray blasters in 2.

[Kingoji]

Actually, I'm fully aware of how 'bad' the FW series is. I have a hard time watching more than an episode or two at any given time. But come on... there's a difference between playful ribbing at genuine faults and straight up getting them wrong. T-DT was the former and TF was the latter.
T-DT was funny because we could laugh along with the Nick Turltes at how much has changed in thirty years, on multiple levels of quality and audience acceptablilty. It's entirely possible to laugh at something while still being fond of it. Turtles Forever didn't really do that, it just portrayed the FW TMNT as interchangable annoying goofballs that were pretty inept at everything. Here they were just as competant as the Nick TMNT, only they clearly operated by their own set of rules.

[Shark_Blade]

Who cares?

Pretty much everyone tbh. Almost everything has something to do with OT: TMNT IDW, TMNT movies, Nick TMNT, toys, games... ;)

I daresay OT is even more important and groundbreakingly impactful than Mirage TMNT/Prime turtles tbh.

[Bry]

It was just as disrespectful to the Fred Wolf show than Turtles Forever was. Raph saying how lame their fights were, "enough with the turtle power already", pointing out that the plot didn't make sense.

And retconning Krang's origin without marrying it to the information we already had about his past. They completely ignored a ton of FW lore in attempting to make Krang a Nick Utrom.

Bingo. But since it didn't have a brief shot of the FW Turtles crying (which even I dislike and wish they'd cut) it gets a free pass from the Fred Wolf die-hard fans while TF is completely loathed.

I'm not defending that scene -- it was a bit too mean-spirited. But the '87 Turtles were shown as capable in their own right in both crossovers. Their world has a different internal logic, and that contrast was played for laughs, but you can find plenty of respect for them in TF if you don't get too defensive and emotional at the jokes at their expense. (Which yes, again, the Nick show also did.)

Keep in mind also -- the point of 2003 Raphael insulting the '87 Turtles was to lead up to it being turned around on him, when the Mirage Turtles mocked him and roughed him up in return. The mesaage being that it's all relative.

[neatoman]

Pretty much everyone tbh. Almost everything has something to do with OT: TMNT IDW, TMNT movies, Nick TMNT, toys, games... ;)

I daresay OT is even more important and groundbreakingly impactful than Mirage TMNT/Prime turtles tbh.

More like the toyline had influence. If you remove the stuff that was just there because Playmates demanded it, most of what would be left are forgotten or unpopular characters like Pinky McFingers and Vernon Fenwick.

[Shark_Blade]

More like the toyline had influence. If you remove the stuff that was just there because Playmates demanded it, most of what would be left are forgotten or unpopular characters like Pinky McFingers and Vernon Fenwick.

The OT toyline hadn't be on for a very long time, yet OT still thrives and kicking even moreso now. That's the lasting power of OT and worthy of recognition and respect. :D

[neatoman]

The OT toyline hadn't be on for a very long time, yet OT still thrives and kicking even moreso now. That's the lasting power of OT and worthy of recognition and respect. :D

What the hell are you talking about? The Fred Wolf cartoon was just a marketing vehicle for the toyline, pretty much all the ideas that people remember comes from the fact that they had the toys as kids. Most of the things about the cartoon that weren't there to market toys are not really remembered.

As for "worthy of respect", as a success in marketing maybe but the actual content and quality of the show is laughably bad. It has writing problems, animation errors and a distinct lack of proper editing, respecting it is like respecting Michael Bay movies. It might have made a lot of money but that doesn't mean it's not crap.

And if recognition is worthy of respect, well, based on real life conversations I have with people that should probably mean I should respect the 90's movie trilogy far more. Because guess what, it may not look like it based on merchandising but the Fred Wolf cartoon is overshadowed by those movies, anyone below the age of 30 is more likely to recognise them than the Fred Wolf cartoon.

[Shark_Blade]

Well the toys(?) compliment the cartoon and vice versa then. I see no problem with that.
The other series and movies have toys too but OT still reign supreme. Most things TMNT still borrow heavily from OT universe.

[neatoman]

Well the toys(?) compliment the cartoon and vice versa then. I see no problem with that.
The other series and movies have toys too but OT still reign supreme. Most things TMNT still borrow heavily from OT universe.

I'm saying the toyline are where these ideas came from, using Mondo Gecko as an example ,who barely had a role in the cartoon mind you, is using an idea from the toyline. When you look at what was most likely not created for the toyline, then most of it is not being used.
And the Mirage comics and the 4Kids show are also inspiring new material a lot, so it's not a very strong defense to say things are pulling from it, of course they are going to draw from older material, I've seen people like Dan Slott pull from runs of Spider-Man nobody liked. The Fred Wolf cartoon does not "reign supreme" like you say, it was cancelled 20 years ago and there are probably more people who have seen the movies from the 90's than there are who watched the Fred Wolf cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Poking fun at the OT Turtles was the best part of both specials. The way they fought, Leo's battle cries, the incompetence of 80's Shredder and Krang, the nonsensical physics with Donatello making portal guns and pulling things out of nowhere, etc.

And this is coming from a huge fan of the original cartoon who marathons it every 2-3 years or so. They nailed them perfectly.

[Technogeek29]

Pretty much everyone tbh. Almost everything has something to do with OT: TMNT IDW, TMNT movies, Nick TMNT, toys, games... ;)

I daresay OT is even more important and groundbreakingly impactful than Mirage TMNT/Prime turtles tbh.

And this sums up my problems with the OT perfectly.

To answer the question, I still do like Turtles Forever more but its very close on Trans-Dimensional Turtles both have their problems however...

[Icebot]

I chose Transdimensional Turtles because it felt a lot more real with the original voice actors.

[turtlefanforever]

Although i didn't like the way TF treated the OT, i'm still able to enjoy the film.

Could barely sit throught TDT. Had to keep telling myself "you can get through this" while watching. How 2k12 can even take jabs at OT is beyond me. Being how mindnumbingly stupid and low brow it is.

The 2D animation sucked, Krang looked like Honey boo boo's mother. And whats with his belt being so damn big?

It was/is pretty bad

[neatoman]

Krang looked like Honey boo boo's mother.

Hm...
http://www.thousandaire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/honey-boo-boos-mom.jpg
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/6/6d/Crossover_krang.png/revision/latest?cb=20151009145040

Oh my god, he really does! That's hilarious!

[Powder]

That was precisely the point, guys, it was a nod to that meme where her head's on Krang's body.

[neatoman]

That was precisely the point, guys, it was a nod to that meme where her head's on Krang's body.

Now that I googled it, it's even funnier.
http://okayface.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/honey-boo-boo-krang.jpg

[CyberCubed]

Could barely sit throught TDT. Had to keep telling myself "you can get through this" while watching. How 2k12 can even take jabs at OT is beyond me. Being how mindnumbingly stupid and low brow it is.
d

I don't see what's "low brow" about it since the Nick Turtles do fight more and have more realistic universe problems than the OT did.

The original cartoon was always a slapstick parody with crazy physics and stuff that didn't make sense. That's why a lot of us liked it, but when you compare it to more serious cartoons obviously that stuff is going to stand out.

[pferreira]

If only Trans-Dimensional Turtles had the animation of Turtles Forever.

[CyberCubed]

If only Trans-Dimensional Turtles had the animation of Turtles Forever.

They didn't spend too long in the 2D sections anyway.

[Jephael]

I'm probably one of the few people who actually liked the flash animation style 2D depiction of the Fred Wolf universe. I feel like they were actually given an 80s feel, whereas in Turtles Forever they looked more 90s style. I will admit, I wish they had waited until after the events of the space travel storyarc to have this happen. I get that they were looking for an excuse to take the Nick Turtles back home to see Splinter again for a little bit, but it just convolutes everything what with the time travel thing going on.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm probably one of the few people who actually liked the flash animation style 2D depiction of the Fred Wolf universe. I feel like they were actually given an 80s feel, whereas in Turtles Forever they looked more 90s style. I will admit, I wish they had waited until after the events of the space travel storyarc to have this happen. I get that they were looking for an excuse to take the Nick Turtles back home to see Splinter again for a little bit, but it just convolutes everything what with the time travel thing going on.

I will admit, the flash animated 2D world has grown on me. It feels strangely good to look at it for me, and I love how the flash animation fluctuated from scene to scene, like in the end where the 80s Turtles fought tiger claw, just like how the animation style in the classic show varied from episode to episode.

[miru]

As the OT and Nick series are already close in their feel (more of 66 to Brave and the Bold as opposed to 66 vs. BTAS), the portrayals can (and must) be made incredibly accurate, and it allows for production jokes as opposed to deeper contrast. However, Forever had bigger stakes.

[MrPliggins]

I voted for TF. The 2d animation was much better in TF in my opinion. I loved the story, and pretty much everything about it. The out of character 87 Turtles seem to turn a lot of people off here. While some of those parts are cringe-worthy, it doesn't ruin the movie at all for me. And they actually were in-character at times too. It did take me a while to get used to the Turtles' voices, especially Leo.

I loved the old voice actors' return in TDT, especially Krang, and the scene where 87 Raph threw the pizza at the screen like the 87 opening. I was a little confused by some of the 2k12 story as I haven't watched any of the Nick toon since season 2. The 87 background music returning was also great in this one. I didn't like the 2d animation, and the similarity in plot to TF. I didn't care much for the 3d animated 87 Turtles either. For what it was, it was pretty good.

[pferreira]

As the OT and Nick series are already close in their feel (more of 66 to Brave and the Bold as opposed to 66 vs. BTAS), the portrayals can (and must) be made incredibly accurate, and it allows for production jokes as opposed to deeper contrast. However, Forever had bigger stakes.I have to agree with you.

[Danetello]

It was a real tough choice, as I love both. I love that in Trans-D we get 3D Krang and Pat Fraley. However, TF connected the universes a little better, and of course was based around the 2k3 series, which is my favourite. So ultimately I voted for TF; but I do LOVE the new episode almost as much, too.

[Andrew NDB]

Pretty much everyone tbh. Almost everything has something to do with OT: TMNT IDW, TMNT movies, Nick TMNT, toys, games... ;)

I daresay OT is even more important and groundbreakingly impactful than Mirage TMNT/Prime turtles tbh.

http://howng.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/people-laughing-3-710x434.jpg

[Yabuturtle]

I think 80s Krang was a push over in the crossover and thought he should have been a much bigger threat, but then he was tossed aside by Kraang Subprime.

[plastroncafe]

Finally got a chance to see this.
I think I preferred Turtles Forever.
Don't get me wrong, it was fantastic to hear the original VAs do their stuff. And ****ing impressive that they can call back a singular voice they haven't regularly done in decades.

I'm saddened that the Mirage turtles didn't get voices. Also that the OT and Nick turtles didn't look like their respective comic book counterparts while they were in that world.

[Yabuturtle]

Transdimensional Turtles was better overall. The 80s turtles acted like their versions while in TF, they were exaggerated and did a lot of things that were out of character. Not to mention of course TT had the original voice actors which was nice and even Pat Fraley returned to voice Krang.

I felt Krang should have been given a much bigger role as he was basically a screw up that was banished by the Kraang but really Krang should have been the mastermind of the entire thing. I would have liked them to use the Technodrome though. Krang should have pushed Kraang Subprime around, not the other way around.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Transdimensional Turtles was better overall. The 80s turtles acted like their versions while in TF, they were exaggerated and did a lot of things that were out of character. Not to mention of course TT had the original voice actors which was nice and even Pat Fraley returned to voice Krang.

I felt Krang should have been given a much bigger role as he was basically a screw up that was banished by the Kraang but really Krang should have been the mastermind of the entire thing. I would have liked them to use the Technodrome though. Krang should have pushed Kraang Subprime around, not the other way around.

Agree with you for the most part. However, I think Kraang subprime bossing his cousin around was a nice touch. It would give us an explanation as to why Krang was so arrogant and bossy towards Shredder on earth.

[Utrommaniac]

Agree with you for the most part. However, I think Kraang subprime bossing his cousin around was a nice touch. It would give us an explanation as to why Krang was so arrogant and bossy towards Shredder on earth.

The cycle continues :lol:

SubPrime bossed around Krang, so Krang bosses around Shredder, who in turn bosses around Bebop and Rocksteady (and also Baxter Stockman briefly.)

BUUUT then Kraang Prime bosses around SubPrime, so now the pecking order has gone even longer!

[Yabuturtle]

Agree with you for the most part. However, I think Kraang subprime bossing his cousin around was a nice touch. It would give us an explanation as to why Krang was so arrogant and bossy towards Shredder on earth.

I feel like I missed some episodes. Was Krang really a Kraang or did he have a body? Krang is supposed to have had a body but the Kraang, I thought, were brain-like aliens and were basically mutated Utroms. So which story are they going with? Because if this 80s Krang is supposed to be the one from the 1987 cartoon then he couldn't have been cousins to Subprime if Krang originally had a body and if he was banished to the 2 dimensional Dimension X, why would he refer to it as his home and native origin?

Why is Krang being bossed around by Subprime anyway? Krang can grow to the size of Godizlla and he's worried about Subprime? Can Subprime do that? I don't recall but I could be wrong.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I feel like I missed some episodes. Was Krang really a Kraang or did he have a body? Krang is supposed to have had a body but the Kraang, I thought, were brain-like aliens and were basically mutated Utroms. So which story are they going with? Because if this 80s Krang is supposed to be the one from the 1987 cartoon then he couldn't have been cousins to Subprime if Krang originally had a body and if he was banished to the 2 dimensional Dimension X, why would he refer to it as his home and native origin?

Why is Krang being bossed around by Subprime anyway? Krang can grow to the size of Godizlla and he's worried about Subprime? Can Subprime do that? I don't recall but I could be wrong.

Its complicated I agree. But I have attempted to explain how Krangs backstory in the fred wolf cartoon is linked to his origins with subprime. Go to the 'Crossovers with the OT' thread in the General Tmnt discussion and you should see it there.

[Yabuturtle]

Its complicated I agree. But I have attempted to explain how Krangs backstory in the fred wolf cartoon is linked to his origins with subprime. Go to the 'Crossovers with the OT' thread in the General Tmnt discussion and you should see it there.

I will check it out for sure., But it's still strange. I mean basically the 87 toon is in canon with the 12 toon as well? They never once mentioned that Krang was a Kraang. And they specifically said he had a body. I remember Subprime saying that he banished Krang to 2 dimensional Earth. But we all know Krang was from Dimension X which he said was his home dimension. Is there two dimension X's as well? A 2D one and a 3D one?

I am surprised more people haven't questioned it before because with Krang being a Kraang and having a totally different backstory, it kind of contradicts of what was set up in the 87 toon. I guess they decided to do a recton or something.

[cryan]

I chose Transdimensional Turtles because it felt a lot more real with the original voice actors.

Yeah, I am old fuddie duddie but I liked trans-dimensional too. I do think they treated the Fw turtles better then TF did.

[Yabuturtle]

Also the 87 turtles were depicted to be more competent than in TF. They did some silly stuff in TT but they actually held their own against Subprime and the others. I liked that Krang wasn't a push over like he is sometimes in the cartoon, as he actually was a threat, especially when he grew into a giant. Although he only seemed to be as big as King Kong, as opposed to Godzilla like he was when he first turned into a giant.

Which of course begs the question as to why Krang was being bossed around by Subprime when Subprime was not only in the tehnodrome but Krang can turn into a giant. I actually thought this series was going to depict Krang as the main villain of the 12 series, as I thought he was behind creating the Kraang, even Kraang Prime. After all, this is a guy that also cloned himself in Invasion of the Krangazoids. So really, I thought it was going to reveal Krang to be the final main villain of the 12 series, which I think would have been preferable, rather than see him get pushed around by Subprime.

[SKX31]

I'm late to the ball here, but I'm in the Forever camp. Not because of 2K3 fanboyism, though:

From a production standpoint, Forever was from the get go planned as Mirage-era TMNT's last hurrah (and it turned out to be 4Kids' last as a company pretty much) and it showed. You can tell when Dong Woo (the animation studio for 2K3) got OT's original 2D models and everything related to that.

Yes, the OT Turtles were flanderized to a degree, but even then there are some stand out moments. Like OT Splinter - as he serves some rice and supports 2K3 Leo and Raph through the emotional pain of losing 2K3 Splinter. No jokes at his expense, just respect payed to him. I think that not having him in more scenes - like the final battle at Mirageverse - was a bit of a missed opportunity. Imagine OT Splinter staring down OT Shredder when Yoshi realizes that Saki freed Ch'rell - aka an omnicidal version of "Saki" - and set off the whole potentially-multiverse destroying chain of events to begin with. Remember, even in the rather wacky Turtleverse Saki still framed Yoshi for attempted murder pretty much.

I'm kinda getting the sense, otoh, that TDT went through at least some trouble during production. Wasn't there rumors here that it was supposed to be a two parter at first? I'm reserving full judgement until after the second OT-Nick crossover's released, but the animation quality and the kinda rehashed scenario did not exactly win me over.

Having the original voice cast is a very nice bonus, no doubt, but gotta utilize them more. Explore the differences between Nick Leo and OT Leo, for example - if possible of course. Like showing how they can complement each other with their respective views on leading.

[hankthetank]

I'm going with TDT for the reason that they did the 87 Turtles better. The point of a crossover is to have both sides involved Turtles Forever is a great part of the 2K3 series but just wasn't accurate to the original. The closest it got was Donatello using a boulder as a weapon to attack the foot soldiers and Raphs fourth wall jokes. Watching TDT felt like another episode of the original cartoon they even got the epic fighting music right on que.

[Yabuturtle]

I think the best thing about TT is that the 87 turtles were a lot more competent. In TF they did a few useful things and of course they easily beat their own villains, like the foot soldiers, but really, with the way they and Shredder and Krang were portrayed, pretty much anyone can beat them. In TF a lot of the time the 87 turtles got their ass kicked or were shoved aside and were useful in only a few situations.

In TT, they actually held their own against the enemies of the 2012 universe, like the Kraang and Krang Subprime. Krang himself was also a lot more dangerous when he grew bigger, he of course put up a much better fight than he did in TF.

I still wonder why Krang even bothered to take orders from Subprime when Krang can grow to the size of Godzilla.

[Chris]

The Nick episode was a lot of fun but gotta give this to Turtles Forever, it had the length that allowed it to feel more epic, plus it worked well as a finale to the 4Kids era and a celebration of TMNT so far which all added to that more epic feel.

[FredWaffles01]

I personally liked Turtles Forever Better. TDT was great but it felt a bit rushed. Also the flash animation kind of bothered me. The main problem I had was Krang's retcon into the 2k12 universe as a member of the Kraang (mainly because he's my favorite character). I always thought of Kraang Prime as being the 2k12 version of Krang. I still loved TDT because it had the original cast and it didn't really flanderize the '87 turtles. Overall, I like Turtles Forver better because of the animation quality in the 80's universe, amount of 80s characters, and length of the special. The voices didn't bother me that much except for 80s Leo and Krang.

[ABrown]

I can't believe that after 75 votes, more than a third of the people voted for Trans-Dimensional Turtles. I mean I was expecting Turtles Forever to win, but I thought that there would be less than 10% votes for TDT.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I can't believe that after 75 votes, more than a third of the people voted for Trans-Dimensional Turtles. I mean I was expecting Turtles Forever to win, but I thought that there would be less than 10% votes for TDT.

Pat Fraley. Nuff said

[Shark_Blade]

Turtles forever? Ew, they're not even the original cast. And they treated OT turtles like idiot children. Disgusting.

No more 2k3 turtles to be heard after that. Nick pretend they don't even exist. :tlol: Justice.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Turtles forever? Ew, they're not even the original cast. And they treated OT turtles like idiot children. Disgusting.

No more 2k3 turtles to be heard after that. Nick pretend they don't even exist. :tlol: Justice.

Be careful thy comrade, for thou shall be seriously confronted by those who will accuse you of taking the OT with too much seriousness, after they are done complaning about how many flaws made thine loved show a lame piece of crap.

[Foombamaroom]

Be careful thy comrade, for thou shall be seriously confronted by those who will accuse you of taking the OT with too much seriousness, after they are done complaning about how many flaws made thine loved show a lame piece of crap.

I'm waiting for a certain 'Drome member to show up. You basically blew into the horn that calls them.

[Shark_Blade]

I thanketh thee f'r the fair warning. The sooth hurts liketh a loveth sonnet lol.

I shalt brace myself f'r the hurricane to cometh. :D

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I thanketh thee f'r the fair warning. The sooth hurts liketh a loveth sonnet lol.

I shalt brace myself f'r the hurricane to cometh. :D

Good luck soldier.

[Yabuturtle]

TT portrayed the 87 turtles in a better way. They were not only a lot less annoying unlike TF, but they were also a lot more competent instead of being pushed around like in TF. They actually held their own against The Kraang and Kraang Subprime.

I did not however like the idea of retconning Krang's origin. I actually heard that Krang was supposed to be the main villain of the 2012 series and that he was actually behind the entire Kraang idea, hence why they are all refereed to as "Kraang"

Krang was never from 3D Dimension X. He was originally from Dimension X as that is his native home as he explained in the 87 show. Plus they made it clear he had a body. The Kraang are mutated Utroms basically. Plus Krang doesn't even look like any of the other Kraang. His eyes are lavender, has a more pinkish hue, has less tentacles and his a bit bigger. Not to mention his mouth looks different. Strangely they made Krang more threatening and also a joke in this special.

He was strong enough to do some damage to the Turtles when he grew into a giant. (Which makes me wonder why he even takes orders from the Kraang if he can grow to the size of Godzilla.) But they also made him somewhat incompetent as he was a Kraang that was a screw up and was banished. But if you look at the 87 show Krang himself really wasn't THAT incompetent. In fact many of his plans would have succeeded if it wasn't for Bebop and Rocksteady and their incompetence, or Shredder interfering because of his obsession with getting revenge on the Turtles

And I felt that him trying to destroy realities was a bit out of character. That's something Shredder might do due to his obsession with the Turtles, but Krang couldn't care less about them. He didn't like them, but he wasn't obsessed with them like Shredder was. He's world conqueror not a destroyer and he's more interested in ruling than destroying things.

I feel like Krang should have been the main villain, even being in control of the Kraang themselves.

[Refractive Reflections]

When it comes to plot and animation, it would be 4Kids, but in terms of OT characterization and voice acting it would be Nick. The OT characterization in TF was very poorly handled to the point of making their characters unnecessary. The TF characterization frequently distracts from the show's narrative and tone, in Trans-dimensional Turtles the tone and narrative are more seamless in introducing and transitioning between the two universes. If I had to choose, I would go with Trans-dimensional Turtles despite its thin plot.

[ssjup81]

Turtles Forever had a great story and good animation, but the OT Turtles annoyed the living hell out of me. I wanted Utrom Shredder to just stomp them or something. Their characterizations were so far off, it's ridiculous. It truly did feel like 4Kids had a vendetta against the old series. I think I would've enjoyed it more, if it would've felt more like two teams working together...both competent and stuff. It felt like they dumbed down the OT group to make the 2k3 group look better by comparison, and imo, that's unfair to both groups. It felt very unbalanced.

As for TDT, it was okay and it was great that they got the original voice cast back (I've said for a long time, that I would like to hear Nick Donnie talking with OT Raph jokingly....finally got it and glad they pointed out how similar they sounded lol; I've always liked stuff like that...it also happened in Detective Conan with Conan's character). Liked the jokes and Nick Raph going on about how lame the fight was when OT Mikey pulled out his grappling hook to trip up Krang. I'm not sure, but I interpreted it as their way of saying, the censorship and toning down of the show after the first season was straight up lame. I know I felt that way when they started fazing out Michelangelo's nunchaku for his grappling hook as a kid. Felt like a jab at that, not the actual OT Turtles, because...it was true. That's how it was. They couldn't use their weapons much after a while, and they had to find alternative ways of fighting.

Oh, I liked the fact that the OT Turtles were actually competent and took things seriously. Even in the original, they wouldn't be cracking jokes and acting silly during an enemy battle.

As for the Krang thing...I'm iffy about that. I like the idea that Krang was banished to earth for being a screw up...but at the same time, it's a bit off because he had all those Rock Soldiers at his command waiting to invade. It was strongly implied that he was an evil warlord type before his banishment and how he once had a body but lost it or however that went....although, even in the OT, they weren't consistent with that. Either way, I didn't care for the retconning of that at all.

One thing I did dislike, aside from the Krang retcon thing (sorta) was the pizza thing. In TF, they ran out in the open to eat pizza. In Wormquake, they were eating pizza, in broad daylight, up on a rooftop. In TDT, they nearly ran out to get some pizza until the Nick Turtles pulled them back. I can't help but wonder why this is a running gag, when they didn't do this in the original show. They usually wore the trench coats and the fedoras. The OT turtles usually didn't hang out in broad daylight unless something drew them out. Going to a pizza place without their disguises (or those creepy masks) wasn't a thing. Okay, I'll stop being nitpicky....but I will say one thing about the trench coats...I loved Nick Raph's jab at that...back in season 2. "That tracker is as useless as a trench coat on a turtle." I think that was the line. lol

If choosing...I'd probably go with TDT, only because it felt like an actual team up and not a "We're better than you" type set up.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Krang was never from 3D Dimension X. He was originally from Dimension X as that is his native home as he explained in the 87 show. Plus they made it clear he had a body. The Kraang are mutated Utroms basically. Plus Krang doesn't even look like any of the other Kraang. His eyes are lavender, has a more pinkish hue, has less tentacles and his a bit bigger. Not to mention his mouth looks different. Strangely they made Krang more threatening and also a joke in this special.

It's the same Dimension X, just different parts.

[pferreira]

Turtles Forever had a great story and good animation, but the OT Turtles annoyed the living hell out of me. I wanted Utrom Shredder to just stomp them or something. Their characterizations were so far off, it's ridiculous. It truly did feel like 4Kids had a vendetta against the old series. I think I would've enjoyed it more, if it would've felt more like two teams working together...both competent and stuff. It felt like they dumbed down the OT group to make the 2k3 group look better by comparison, and imo, that's unfair to both groups. It felt very unbalanced.

The 2K3 show was the most recent show and had the same production team behind it so they of course wanted to make them look good.

[Yabuturtle]

I'm not exactly sure how they made Krang both a threat and a joke in this special. He was strong enough to do some damage to the Nick turtles especially as a giant but it doesn't make sense to change his entire backstory. Not that he had THAT big of a backstory, as most of it was a mystery but they made it very clear he had a body at one point and was from 2 dimension Dimension X not 3D Dimension X. They are somewhat similar but they made it clear these were 2 different kinds of dimensions much like 2d Earth and 3d Earth.

Wasn't Krang the rule of an entire dimension practically. He's ruled over countless races and destroyed entire worlds and had a huge army of rock soldiers. Plus Krang can grow to the size of Godzilla. It doesn't make sense from him to take orders from the Kraang when he should be more than powerful enough to handle them

They made it seem as if Krang was always incompetent when really he wasn't in the series. Most of his plans would have worked well if it wasn't for Bebop and Rocksteady fouling up or Shredder interfering because of his obsession over the turtles.

It would have been much cooler and made way more sense for Krang to be behind the entire Kraang. That he was both the main villain of the 87 and 12 series. Anyone remember the episode where Krang cloned himself? When I first heard Krang would be in the crossover, I thought it was going to be revealed that Krang created a race of beings from his genetic material and command them to enslave other worlds from other dimensions. I also thought that maybe that's why they were all referred to as Kraang because they are named after Krang.

This would have been a great opportunity to show Krang to be a much bigger threat, even more so than ever before, but he got tossed aside by Kraang Subprime. At least they made the OT turtles less annoying and more competent.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I used to see it differently, but now I see OT and Nick Dimension X as the same place. Dimension X is such a vast and wacky place, that I see some parts in 2D and other 3D. Both the OT and Nick turtles, Krang and Kraang Subprime make no distinction between the two and Subprime even stated that he banished Krang straight to 2D earth from Dimension X instead of banishing him to another version of Dimension X. Unlike Earth, which is referred to as 2D or 3D, Dimension X is just called Dimension X, nothing more.

Personally, I like the concept of the OT and Nick's Dimension X being the same place that both teams of turtles have visited on various occassions, making the two universes connected. I consider transdimensional turtles and the whole Nick show as canon to the OT with all its OT cameos, and having the same Dimension X in my opinion, but I don't see turtles forever as canon to the old cartoon despite the fact that I enjoyed it.

[Yabuturtle]

I used to see it differently, but now I see OT and Nick Dimension X as the same place. Dimension X is such a vast and wacky place, that I see some parts in 2D and other 3D. Both the OT and Nick turtles, Krang and Kraang Subprime make no distinction between the two and Subprime even stated that he banished Krang straight to 2D earth from Dimension X instead of banishing him to another version of Dimension X. Unlike Earth, which is referred to as 2D or 3D, Dimension X is just called Dimension X, nothing more.

Personally, I like the concept of the OT and Nick's Dimension X being the same place that both teams of turtles have visited on various occassions, making the two universes connected. I consider transdimensional turtles and the whole Nick show as canon to the OT with all its OT cameos, and having the same Dimension X in my opinion, but I don't see turtles forever as canon to the old cartoon despite the fact that I enjoyed it.

I would think these dimensions are two different ones. I thought they might be the same Dimension X but they seem different to me.

First, they said Krang ruled Dimension X or at least a large portion of it. Most creatures knew who Krang was at the time. All the times Krang traveled through Dimension X and we never once saw any other members of his race? He made it clear he had a body before but the Kraang don't have any bodies.

Aside from The Dimension X from the 2012 series being in 3D, it is also different from the 2D dimension X. The space background is different, as space in 2d Dimension X has a reddish color while 3D dimension x has a pinkish color to it. There are two technodromes, one on the 87 series and the other from the 12 series and I was under the impression there was just one Technodrome.

Also in TDT, Krang said he was being allowed to "go home" to Dimension X. But why would he say that? He's been to Dimension X countless times before and since he's spent a considerable amount of time there, you would think the Kraang would show up and boot him out again or interact with him in some way, shape or form. Also, Krang doesn't even look like the other Krang. The other Kraang have a different color to them, have more tentacles, different kinds of mouths and they have green eyes, unlike Krang who has lavender eyes. Besides if there can be two different kinds of Earths, why can't there be two different kinds of Dimension X?

Also how was he a screw up when he was known to be a rather fearsome warlord from Dimension X and ruled a considerable amount of territory there. Plus Krang himself wasn't so concerned about mutating everyone like the Kraang were.

The other problem I had was the Krang was trying to blow up realities which I thought was out of character. He did blow up planets, as he destroyed Berserko's home world, but he was more concerned with ruling overs and not trying to destroy entire dimensions just to wipe out the Turtles. That's something Shredder might do, but as obsessed as he is with the Turtles, he probably wouldn't go far. At least 1987 Shredder wouldn't. Chrell would as he tried to do in Turtles Forever.

But Krang himself didn't care about the Turtles. He didn't like them but he wasn't obsessed with getting revenge like Shredder was. Speaking of that, where was 1987 Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady. It is somewhat strange to see Krang with out Shredder. But IDW has done that before so I guess it's not that strange, but there, they were enemies. In the 1987 show they are allies.

Also where does this even take place in the 1987 universe? I'm assuming it takes place before the Red Sky seasons, since Krang has his robot body and the Turtles don't have the Red Sky design. The Technodrome is in Dimension X, so maybe the 5th Season or 2nd season? Not sure

It's also a minor detail but I've noticed in TDT Krang doesn't have his red gloves when he's 2D but when he enters into the 3D universe, he has his red gloves. In the 1987 show he had both ungloved and gloved hands and he didn't even have his red gloves until the 3rd season. Just a little something I noticed.

[ssjup81]

I would think these dimensions are two different ones. I thought they might be the same Dimension X but they seem different to me.

First, they said Krang ruled Dimension X or at least a large portion of it. Most creatures knew who Krang was at the time. All the times Krang traveled through Dimension X and we never once saw any other members of his race? He made it clear he had a body before but the Kraang don't have any bodies.

Aside from The Dimension X from the 2012 series being in 3D, it is also different from the 2D dimension X. The space background is different, as space in 2d Dimension X has a reddish color while 3D dimension x has a pinkish color to it. There are two technodromes, one on the 87 series and the other from the 12 series and I was under the impression there was just one Technodrome.

Also in TDT, Krang said he was being allowed to "go home" to Dimension X. But why would he say that? He's been to Dimension X countless times before and since he's spent a considerable amount of time there, you would think the Kraang would show up and boot him out again or interact with him in some way, shape or form. Also, Krang doesn't even look like the other Krang. The other Kraang have a different color to them, have more tentacles, different kinds of mouths and they have green eyes, unlike Krang who has lavender eyes. Besides if there can be two different kinds of Earths, why can't there be two different kinds of Dimension X?

Also how was he a screw up when he was known to be a rather fearsome warlord from Dimension X and ruled a considerable amount of territory there. Plus Krang himself wasn't so concerned about mutating everyone like the Kraang were.

The other problem I had was the Krang was trying to blow up realities which I thought was out of character. He did blow up planets, as he destroyed Berserko's home world, but he was more concerned with ruling overs and not trying to destroy entire dimensions just to wipe out the Turtles. That's something Shreeder might do, but as obsessed as he is with the Turtles, he probably wouldn't go far. At least 1987 Shredder wouldn't. Chrell would as he tried to do in Turtles Forever.

But Krang himself didn't care about the Turtles. He didn't like them but he wasn't obsessed with getting revenge like Shredder was. Speaking of that, where was 1987 Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady. It is somewhat strange to see Krang with out Shredder. But IDW has done that before so I guess it's not that strange, but there, they were enemies. In the 1987 show they are allies.

Also where does this even take place in the 1987 universe? I'm assuming it takes place before the Red Sky seasons, since Krang has his robot body and the Turtles don't have the Red Sky design. The Technodrome is in Dimension X, so maybe the 5th Season or 2nd season? Not sure

It's also a minor detail but I've noticed in TDT Krang doesn't have his red gloves when he's 2D but when he enters into the 3D universe, he has his red gloves. In the 1987 show he had both ungloved and gloved hands and he didn't even have his red gloves until the 3rd season. Just a little something I noticed.All of this! This is what I was having a problem with. I had no problem with the design of Dimension X, whether it was 2D or 3D, but I did have a problem with how Krang was brought into the ep. OT Krang was a warlord in Dimension X and he'd attacked places and overtook them. I wish they could've handled that better for this crossover.

[Yabuturtle]

All of this! This is what I was having a problem with. I had no problem with the design of Dimension X, whether it was 2D or 3D, but I did have a problem with how Krang was brought into the ep. OT Krang was a warlord in Dimension X and he'd attacked places and overtook them. I wish they could've handled that better for this crossover.

Thank you :) I wish they made Krang into a bigger threat. Like a serious threat. I was hoping that Krang was the main villain. I thought he was giving orders at first when Subprime brought the Turtles to the Technodrome, to which Krang says "Subrprime, you blithering idiot! I told you not to bring the Turtles here!" Then Subrprime later calls Krang a screw up which is why he was banished.

I was under the impression that he was either tried for war crimes and banished, or, during a battle on one of the planets he was trying to conquer, some rebels infiltrated the Technodrome and banished him and something wrong happened, causing him to lose his body. Not be banished because he goofed up and was kicked out by his own cousin.


In my earlier posts, I had mentioned that Krang really wasn't a screw up anyway. A lot of his plans would have worked and he would have ruled Earth a lot sooner if it wasn't for Bebop and Rocksteady's incompetence or Shredder's obsession with the Turtles.

I wish it was revealed that Krang was behind the entire Kraang invasion personally. I thought the Kraang were all modified clones of Krang at first. Krang did clone himself, and I actually thought he cloned himself, and made a whole group bent on world domination.

Krang shouldn't be following the Kraang. If anything, it should be the other way around. Krang is a fearsome warlord and a genius and is incredibly strong, and can tower most buildings when he turns into a giant. No way someone that strong can be labeled a screw up and no way he can be banished so easily.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Now that you mention it, it seems like the path to have gone with. Krang was the original and it seems more sense to make the Kraang an offshoot. If krang was to be an offshoot, he should've been an offshoot of the Utroms from mirage.

[DVD]

I gave Forever the vote. I thoroughly enjoyed TDT but it needed more than the alloted 22 minutes.
I remember watching Forever and thinking it was just amazing. It had the advantage of time, an expanded narrative and a sense of closure.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Also where does this even take place in the 1987 universe? I'm assuming it takes place before the Red Sky seasons, since Krang has his robot body and the Turtles don't have the Red Sky design. The Technodrome is in Dimension X, so maybe the 5th Season or 2nd season? Not sure

The Technodrome is in Dimension X during seasons 2, 4 and early 5 as well as seasons 8-10 so it can be any of them (Krang's robot is in the Technodrome during the last season).

Design and what's 2D and 3D is irrelevant. It's all thought to represent the real world and jumping between universes shouldn't even feel something different.

[ToTheNines]

Design and what's 2D and 3D is irrelevant. It's all thought to represent the real world and jumping between universes shouldn't even feel something different.

Yes, you would think. But in Trans Turtles, the characters are all aware of the difference between 2D and 3D for some reason.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yes, you would think. But in Trans Turtles, the characters are all aware of the difference between 2D and 3D for some reason.

Yes, but that's probably more of a joke just like fourth wall breaking.

[Yabuturtle]

Now that you mention it, it seems like the path to have gone with. Krang was the original and it seems more sense to make the Kraang an offshoot. If krang was to be an offshoot, he should've been an offshoot of the Utroms from mirage.

I was thinking Krang was behind the whole thing, which I think would have made more sense and he would have been more of a threat.

Krang did clone himself in Invasion of the Krangazoids, so I thought the Kraang were like modified clones of Krang and that Krang perfected the cloning process seeing how his last clones turned on him and he turned the Kraang into a hive-like minded society and they would all be obedient. I actually thought Krang was behind the whole thing, even directing Kraang Prime and making Prime the leader that was out in the open while Krang himself ruled behind the shadows. It would make sense why they all look somewhat like Krang and why they are all called Kraang, as it would be because they are all named after him.

[ToTheNines]

Hm... but the Kraang are named after Kraang Prime, who was just Kraang before going crazy. So I guess Krang and Kraang were allies at some point.

Kind of stupid, but then again I know a Shawn and a Sean. Same concept.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Are there maybe any theories of Archie Krang if he also originates from the same Kraang?

[Yabuturtle]

It doesn't make sense to recton his entire origin, saying that he is now part of the Kraang and that he was a screw up and an idiot when before he had a body and he ruled Dimension X. Or at least a large portion of it. This guy ruled countless planets as well as destroyed entire races and here he is reduced to a goof up. If Krang was always like that in the 87 series, it'd make more sense but here, I think it is kind of demeaning to Krang when Krang should be a much bigger threat, even more than he was in the 87 series.

[Shiro Kame]

Not a clue. While Turtles Forever had a lot of heartwarming moments compared to Transdimensional Turtles, any flanderization was much more apparent there. So, I'm kinda divided.

[Rise1184]

I definitely enjoyed Turtles Forever, however it was cool to see them travel through different dimensions as well.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

This guy ruled countless planets as well as destroyed entire races and here he is reduced to a goof up.

Wasn't that Archie? A warlord doesn't neet to rule a lot, just try to fight for his or her interrests which can be without any success.

[billbot85]

I think I liked Trans-dimensional Turtles more. I probably would have enjoyed Turtles Forever more than I did if I watched more of the 2k3 series, but it was still very entertaining.

As already mentioned before, the return of the voice cast for Trans-dimensional Turtles really made the episode, plus I liked how the 2012 and FW turtles worked together to defeat the krang (as opposed to the FW turtles just being portrayed as useless).

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The real comparison will happen when Nickelodeon airs the 3 part crossover episode.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

This guy ruled countless planets as well as destroyed entire races.

He never ruled any planets, just destroyed some planets and species. His Archie counterpart destroyed even more planets.

[myconius]

this isn't really a question with and absolute A or B answer

there are reason's why both are very good

[Coola Yagami]

Yes, you would think. But in Trans Turtles, the characters are all aware of the difference between 2D and 3D for some reason.

Exactly, it was a meta joke and a good excuse to draw the characters both in cgi-style and traditional animation (though they got lazy and used flash I think). I mean, everyone is 3D, and the characters never treat themselves like Paper Mario in the old series or anything like that.

It does bring up an interesting question. If other dimensions existed and they were watching us now as some sort of Truman Show thing... to them would we look like animated characters, or CGI characters or what?

[cloud]

Turtles Forever hands down. It's such a well written feature length story arc.
I like the Nick toons version enough but still can't fully enjoy the show with it's silly tone and plot holes all the time.

[CyberCubed]

Turtles Forever hands down. It's such a well written feature length story arc.
I like the Nick toons version enough but still can't fully enjoy the show with it's silly tone and plot holes all the time.

There are barely any plot holes in Nick at all. And the Nick cartoon overall isn't really any more silly than the original cartoon was, it's just that the style of humor is different.

[neatoman]

There are barely any plot holes in Nick at all.


Why didn't Karai attack the lair during her brainwashing?
How did a single drop of retromutagen work on Kirby when it was clearly stated one canister was one dose? Wasn't there any way of testing before hand?
If the Saki vs Yoshi incident was always a timeloop, how is changing the past even possible?
Why would Bishop initially claim the Utrom came from the Kraang only to give an opposite claim later?
Is it April's mind or genetics that are the key to making the mutagen work properly?
Was Saki's adoption secret to him? If so, when did he find out? If not, why wait so long?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Ehhh, I think turtles forever was better done, but I liked the Nick crossover better. Sure, the Fred Wolf series was goofy, and it's okay to poke fun at it, but tmnt forever seems just a bit mean-spirited.

[myconius]

it's a bit of an unfair comparison since one was a feature length film, while the other was a 20 something minute TV episode.

this further cements my belief that Trans-Dimensional Turtles really should have been a two-parter episode event!
perhaps even running one or both episodes a bit longer than their usual airtime.

i really wish that when the creators are wrapping up the Nick series for good, that they'd do another cross-over episode.

it'd be really nice if they did a feature length direct to home video.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Transdimensional Turtles felt stressed all the time, jumping between realities at just 20 minutes.

[DestronMirage22]

I think Turtles Forever was definitely better. While both insulted the OT in their own ways, the biggest insult came from Nick trying to shoehorn the OT into it's own canon via Krang. That was not cool. And then Nick's attempt at Turtle Prime was pathetic. Moving around Photoshoped images :lol:. FW world animation wasn't very good either. It looked very cheap.
Plus, Turtles Forever had a better story and a longer runtime.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I think Turtles Forever was definitely better. While both insulted the OT in their own ways, the biggest insult came from Nick trying to shoehorn the OT into it's own canon via Krang. That was not cool. And then Nick's attempt at Turtle Prime was pathetic. Moving around Photoshoped images :lol:. FW world animation wasn't very good either. It looked very cheap.
Plus, Turtles Forever had a better story and a longer runtime.

It seems Turtles Forever was hyped up before it aired, so I guess it had to have some quality at least.

[pferreira]

I think Turtles Forever was definitely better. While both insulted the OT in their own ways, the biggest insult came from Nick trying to shoehorn the OT into it's own canon via Krang. That was not cool. And then Nick's attempt at Turtle Prime was pathetic. Moving around Photoshoped images :lol:. FW world animation wasn't very good either. It looked very cheap.
Plus, Turtles Forever had a better story and a longer runtime.The animation for the 80s Turtles was spot on but they wrote the characters wrong while in the Nick version they've got the characters right but animated them like Flash animation due to budget. Would be nice one day to get both. :)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Nick trying to shoehorn the OT into it's own canon via Krang. That was not cool.

Maybe the final crossover will give us some conclusion at least.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Maybe the final crossover will give us some conclusion at least.

I think thats quite likely, considering its gonna be 3 episodes long.

[pferreira]

Maybe the final crossover will give us some conclusion at least.Is there another crossover planned?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Is there another crossover planned?

The 1987-1996 turtles will crossover with the 2012 turtles one more time. That's already confirmed.

[pferreira]

The 1987-1996 turtles will crossover with the 2012 turtles one more time. That's already confirmed.Will the 2003 Turtles crossover do you think?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Will the 2003 Turtles crossover do you think?

Probably no, because of copyright issues.

[neatoman]

Probably no, because of copyright issues.

There aren't any copyright issues, Viacom has full control over the series. The potential problem is a violation of an agreement with the Screen Actors Guild.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

There aren't any copyright issues, Viacom has full control over the series. The potential problem is a violation of an agreement with the Screen Actors Guild.

I heard there were still some copyright problems with the 2003-2009 series, but maybe it had just with DVD releases to do.

[ranger_scout]

The more I watch Turtles Forever the less I like it. Since Peter Laird was mainly behind the 2003 series, he thought it would be okay to treat the 1987 turtles like complete jokes in this special. The FW turtles didn't deserve that. Although I am a fan of Dan Green's voice acting, especially his Knuckles the Echnida, he sounded absolutely nothing like Cam Clarke. The other voice actors at least tried to recreate the voices.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles was a very good tribute to the original series. It brought some light into my life when I was battling depression. Cam Clarke, Townsend Coleman, Barry Gordon, Rob Paulsen and Pat Fraley proved that they still got it after so many years. They also really seem to have chemistry with Seth Green, Sean Astin and Greg Cipes if you look at the behind-the-scenes photos of the recording sessions.

[neatoman]

I heard there were still some copyright problems with the 2003-2009 series, but maybe it had just with DVD releases to do.

No, Nickelodeon is just a ****** distributor.

The more I watch Turtles Forever the less I like it. Since Peter Laird was mainly behind the 2003 series, he thought it would be okay to treat the 1987 turtles like complete jokes in this special. The FW turtles didn't deserve that. Although I am a fan of Dan Green's voice acting, especially his Knuckles the Echnida, he sounded absolutely nothing like Cam Clarke. The other voice actors at least tried to recreate the voices.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles was a very good tribute to the original series. It brought some light into my life when I was battling depression. Cam Clarke, Townsend Coleman, Barry Gordon, Rob Paulsen and Pat Fraley proved that they still got it after so many years. They also really seem to have chemistry with Seth Green, Sean Astin and Greg Cipes if you look at the behind-the-scenes photos of the recording sessions.

But the FW Turtles are a joke.

[ranger_scout]

But the FW Turtles are a joke.

They still had a charm to them. The message that I thought Laird was trying to across in Turtles Forever is that the FW were so incredibly lame and they can't take a moment seriously. In that special, they were not treated with respect and it also looked like they didn't mean a thing at all to the franchise.

[neatoman]

They still had a charm to them. The message that I thought Laird was trying to across in Turtles Forever is that the FW were so incredibly lame and they can't take a moment seriously. In that special, they were not treated with respect and it also looked like they didn't mean a thing at all to the franchise.

First off, Peter Laird didn't actually write the script or direct the special, he was the creative consultant. Matthew Dredk, Roy Burdine, Lloyd Goldfine, Rob David were the main forces behind it, Laird just approved it.

Secondly, I think you're mistaking their intentions as being far more malignant than they were. I'm pretty sure the intention was just to make light of the outdated formula and the sheer absurdity of the FW cartoon, not to make it look irrelevant to the franchise.

Thirdly, and I know some people have a hard time accepting this (especially on the internet), the FW TMNT cartoon isn't really an animation classic, nor is it going to remain in the pop culture consciousness for that many more decades. It was a massive hit back in it's day but it's ultimately just the typical trash of it's day. Beyond (arguably fading) nostalgia, the only thing that's notable about it is that it moved toys off the shelf like crazy and had ten straight seasons without making alterations to the title (never mind that four of them are extremely short though). Not that I feel the special was all that disrespectful in the first place, the show not really deserving any particular respect in the first place.

[ToTheNines]

The FW turtles saved the day with their explosive throwing stars. Also had some pretty cool moments in each fight scene they were involved in, which rarely happened in their own show.

Also, it's hilarious to me how so many people ignore the fact the the Nick turtles treated their forebears like complete idiots and frequently disrespect them. In TF, that was really just Raph, a noted grump who got his turn from the Mirage guys.

Also, Auman tried to rewrite FW lore on a whim. Ended up making no sense.

[ranger_scout]

Thirdly, and I know some people have a hard time accepting this (especially on the internet), the FW TMNT cartoon isn't really an animation classic, nor is it going to remain in the pop culture consciousness for that many more decades. It was a massive hit back in it's day but it's ultimately just the typical trash of it's day. Beyond (arguably fading) nostalgia, the only thing that's notable about it is that it moved toys off the shelf like crazy and had ten straight seasons without making alterations to the title (never mind that four of them are extremely short though). Not that I feel the special was all that disrespectful in the first place, the show not really deserving any particular respect in the first place.

The voice actors from the 1987 TV series say that when fans come up to them they reveal that they are not only watching the 2012 Nickelodeon series with their kids, but they are showing the original series to them as well. Austin St. John, who played Jason Lee Scott in Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers and Power Rangers Zeo, has said similar things as well. Parents and kids have told him that they are watching the show right now on Netflix even though it aired many years ago.

With the recent passing of the great Adam West, I've seen recent articles saying that his Batman series has suddenly gotten popular again thanks to its recent releases on Blu-ray and DVD along with last year's animated film Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders. Even though the series was campy I would re-watch that series any day over that junk of a comic-book series known as Gotham. In that show's first season I had never in my life seen such bad writing for female characters, other than Fish Mooney, and very forced and sloppy love-triangles. People have said that it's gotten better, but I've also heard that there is still way too much of a gloomy tone and there was no hope for the city until the very end of the show's third season.

[neatoman]

The voice actors from the 1987 TV series say that when fans come up to them they reveal that they are not only watching the 2012 Nickelodeon series with their kids, but they are showing the original series to them as well. Austin St. John, who played Jason Lee Scott Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers and Power Rangers Zeo, has said similar things as well. Parents and kids have told him that they are watching the show right now on Netflix even though it aired many years ago.

With the recent passing of the great Adam West, I've seen recent articles saying that his Batman series has suddenly gotten popular again thanks to its recent releases on Blu-ray and DVD along with last year's animated film Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders. Even though the series was campy I would re-watch that series any day over that junk of a comic-book series known as Gotham. In that show's first season I had never in my life seen such bad writing for female characters, other than Fish Mooney, and very forced and sloppy love-triangles. People have said that it's gotten better, but I've also heard that there is still way too much of a gloomy tone and there was no hope for the city until the very end of the show's third season.

Uh huh... And I watched Lois & Clark, Superman TAS, Smallville and the Donner Superman movies growing up but they didn't all make an equal impact on me. There's no guarantee most these kids will remember this stuff fondly, even if they do you're still focusing on fairly small part of the audience. Most kids watching the Nick Turtles probably don't have parents who decide to watch one of the older shows with their kids, they probably just watch the show without even thinking about the older shows.

As for West's death and the revived interest in the '66 Batman show... Look, this kind of thing always happens when a celebrity dies, when Stan Lee dies you can bet sales for reprints of classic Marvel is going to go through the roof. And of course the home release of a once huge show that's been in copyright limbo for decades is going to sell well. The revived interest just isn't that surprising to me. It's going to fade away again eventually.

As for Gotham being trash, not sure what your point is. I'll agree that it's trash (I haven't watched it since season 2) but it's not like it and '66 are the only games in town when it comes to Batman shows. I'd still take TAS over both...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Animation classic

Which TV series are considered animation classics?

[ranger_scout]

As for West's death and the revived interest in the '66 Batman show... Look, this kind of thing always happens when a celebrity dies, when Stan Lee dies you can bet sales for reprints of classic Marvel is going to go through the roof. And of course, the home release of a once huge show that's been in copyright limbo for decades is going to sell well. The revived interest just isn't that surprising to me. It's going to fade away again eventually.

As for Gotham being trash, not sure what your point is. I'll agree that it's trash (I haven't watched it since season 2) but it's not like it and '66 are the only games in town when it comes to Batman shows. I'd still take TAS over both...

The revived interest in the '66 Batman show was happening before West passed away. In 2014, the complete series was released on Blu-ray and DVD. Last year was the 50th anniversary of the TV series and that was when Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders was released with West, Burt Ward and Julie Newmar reprising their roles. The LEGO Batman Movie, which was a success at the box-office had plenty of references to the series.

The FW Turtles, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and the Power Rangers were my first superheroes and that is why they hold a special place in my heart. And believe me, they do in lots of other people's as well.

ETA: As for my thoughts on Gotham I've seen reviewers praising it for its very dark and gothic tone because that is what Batman is truly about I understand that and I enjoyed The Dark Knight film series. However, I'm in a place right now where I don't like watching stuff like that, especially after long days and weeks at work. Things that are light-hearted boost my spirits.

[neatoman]

The revived interest in the '66 Batman show was happening before West passed away. In 2014, the complete series was released on Blu-ray and DVD. Last year was the 50th anniversary of the TV series and that was why Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders was released with West, Burt Ward and Julie Newmar reprising their roles. The LEGO Batman Movie, which was a success at the box-office had plenty of references to the series.

I went into that. Short version is that I'm not sure it'll last.


The FW Turtles, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and the Power Rangers were my first superheroes and that is why they hold a special place in my heart. And believe me, they do in lots of other people's are likely to.


I know. It's just that not everyone shares your sentiment and I don't think future generations will.

[ToTheNines]

Is it just the fact that the real voice cast was there that makes the FW zombies put up with any abuse given? Don't get me wrong, that goes a long way for me too, but geez.

[GoldMutant]

If Trans-Dimensional Turtles wasn't a regular episode (let alone in that space arc), I'm sure I'd like it more. Granted, it's still one of my favorite episodes of season 4 due to its entertainment, especially when compared to the majority of the season. It was a breath of fresh air, just wasn't placed in the right area at the right time.

Although I saw a lot of references to the 80's era right down to the animation goofs, it certainly hasn't aged well since my first viewing. I really don't like the 80's models in the Nickverse nor the flash animation. It felt way too skit so frantic with the pacing by the end. The main praise I can give it is despite their absence for twenty years, Clarke, Paulsen, Fraley, and Coleman still have it. Barry Gordon was still fine, but he sounded a bit off due to his age.

Turtles Forever was a nice send off to the 2k3 series. Just wish 2k3 had a little more poked fun at though to balance out the poking at FW. In addition, someone other than Dan Green as 80s Leo. Otherwise, it was excellent and easily can be a final tribute to the franchise.

Neither are perfect, but TF I'd take TD-Turtles.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah, Dan Green kinda sucked. I just pretend he's imitating season one Leo and it's not that bad. Leo and Rocksteady were definitely the worst two, but everyone else was at least decent. If not spot on.

The biggest whiff in TF was the "mutant banana" scene. That should have been LH, Rat King, Slash, etc. in non speaking roles.

[GoldMutant]

The biggest whiff in TF was the "mutant banana" scene. That should have been LH, Rat King, Slash, etc. in non speaking roles.

Is it bad I got a laugh out of the banana part? :lol: It's so random, but I got a chuckle out of it.

Definitely agree though it should've been some extra cameos.

[Aaronardo]

Which TV series are considered animation classics?

Early Simpsons, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Samurai Jack, Batman: The Animated Series, Adventure Time, and, depending on who you ask, Gravity Falls and early SpongeBob.

The LEGO Batman Movie, which was a success at the box-office had plenty of references to the series.

The Lego Batman Movie had just as many, if not many more references to and jabs at other Batman incarnations.

[ranger_scout]

The Lego Batman Movie had just as many, if not many more references to and jabs at other Batman incarnations.

Yes, I do remember those other ones as well.

[neatoman]

Was it more or less though? I haven't watched it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Simpsons

By 2050, only Simpsons will be remembered of those, and maybe animated Batman. TMNT will be remembered as a franchise, not not as individual series.

[Andrew NDB]

Is it just the fact that the real voice cast was there that makes the FW zombies put up with any abuse given? Don't get me wrong, that goes a long way for me too, but geez.

The TMNT fandom has always been pretty weird about voice actors.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yeah, Dan Green kinda sucked. I just pretend he's imitating season one Leo and it's not that bad. Leo and Rocksteady were definitely the worst two, but everyone else was at least decent. If not spot on.

The biggest whiff in TF was the "mutant banana" scene. That should have been LH, Rat King, Slash, etc. in non speaking roles.

I guess those creatures came to Earth through a portal that opened, from any of those strange planets the turtles checked out in "Usagi Come Home" when searching for Usagi's Earth.

[Aaronardo]

By 2050, only Simpsons will be remembered of those, and maybe animated Batman. TMNT will be remembered as a franchise, not not as individual series.

To say groundbreaking series like Samurai Jack or Avatar won't be remembered in 30 years by anyone even mildly interested in animation is a pretty ridiculous statement.

Also, TMNT not being remembered as one individual show was the original point. People remember Loony Tunes today because the quality of many of those shorts still hold up today, and that's why I say the above shows will have similar staying power, even if through popular cult followings. The point neatoman made was that the OT doesn't have that kind of staying power, as we've already seen.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Also, who came up with the idea of the original series turtles carrying mutagen canisters with them all the time?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Also, who came up with the idea of the original series turtles carrying mutagen canisters with them all the time?

Most likely the makers of Turtles Forever after watching the first season of the original cartoon and presuming that the turtles are always taking away mutagen from Shredder to prevent him from making new mutants.

Infact, Turtles Forever seems to take alot of cues from the first season of the Original Cartoon as opposed to the seasons that most people know. For e.g. Leonardo and Rocksteady speak in deeper voices closer to how they were in season 1, the turtles use a phonebooth elevator which only appeared in episode 4, the technodrome is moving in the beginning like it did in season 1 underground rather than being stuck, and some very obscure characters who appeared in the 1 made cameos as people on the street In the 80's world.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah the sniffer device from the first Lotus Blossom episode was pretty much the only post-season 1 reference.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Yeah the sniffer device from the first Lotus Blossom episode was pretty much the only post-season 1 reference.

And Carter and Irma making cameos walking in the street.

Despite the makers probably watching only a little bit of 80's show with more than half being season 1, I loved how detailed they made the 80's universe and included references that it took me a few viewings to catch.

My favourite one was when the turtles entered the 80's universe and if you look very closely at the shops behind the pedestrians, you can see Ninja Pizza, Ninja Dentists, Ninja Dry Cleaners and Ninja Shoe Repairs just like in the first episode, done in the exact same order with the same designs.

[ToTheNines]

Are you sure about Carter? How have I missed it all these years?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Are you sure about Carter? How have I missed it all these years?

I didn't find out until I saw it pointed out somewhere on the Internet, probably Turtlepedia. Its only for 1 second and pretty hard to catch as Carters behind all the people walking on the street, opposite of the old lady who threatened the turtles with a gun.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

And Carter and Irma making cameos walking in the street.

Despite the makers probably watching only a little bit of 80's show with more than half being season 1, I loved how detailed they made the 80's universe and included references that it took me a few viewings to catch.

My favourite one was when the turtles entered the 80's universe and if you look very closely at the shops behind the pedestrians, you can see Ninja Pizza, Ninja Dentists, Ninja Dry Cleaners and Ninja Shoe Repairs just like in the first episode, done in the exact same order with the same designs.

How did those businesses reappear? They were run by Shredder in one district during the first season, and after the Technodrome was sent away from Earth, much of his criminal empire fell, reduced just to himself, Bebop and Rocksteady.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

How did those businesses reappear? They were run by Shredder in one district during the first season, and after the Technodrome was sent away from Earth, much of his criminal empire fell, reduced just to himself, Bebop and Rocksteady.

It wasn't meant to align with any continuity, just like how Bebop's and Rocksteady's human forms appeared in the streets and the whole movie in general does not follow any specific timeline in the Original Cartoon.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It wasn't meant to align with any continuity, just like how Bebop's and Rocksteady's human forms appeared in the streets and the whole movie in general does not follow any specific timeline in the Original Cartoon.

It feels Transdimensional Turtles sadly also ignores the timeline.

[pferreira]

The more I watch Turtles Forever the less I like it. Since Peter Laird was mainly behind the 2003 series, he thought it would be okay to treat the 1987 turtles like complete jokes in this special. The FW turtles didn't deserve that. It's no secret Peter Laird doesn't like the FW, (y'know the show that made TMNT famous) so this was an opportunity to release all his dislike of the FW Turtles in a special. Also considering the timeframe he wasn't exactly going to make the 2003 TMNT look stupid right?

But the FW Turtles are a joke.In your opinion. ;)

Thirdly, and I know some people have a hard time accepting this (especially on the internet), the FW TMNT cartoon isn't really an animation classic, nor is it going to remain in the pop culture consciousness for that many more decades. It was a massive hit back in it's day but it's ultimately just the typical trash of it's day. Beyond (arguably fading) nostalgia, the only thing that's notable about it is that it moved toys off the shelf like crazy and had ten straight seasons without making alterations to the title (never mind that four of them are extremely short though). (calm deep breath) I wouldn't call the FW series an animation classic, it had it's flaws but I always feel you have the show out of context. The reason for this is you're 'assuming' you know it's place back then amongst other 80s cartoons when you weren't actually alive at that point. For instance I can't pretend to say that the Charlie Chaplin films are terrible when I wasn't alive at the time to compare it to stuff around it. I've watched a lot of 80s cartoons and with the talent of film/TV critique I would say I'm qualified to say what tier of quality each of those shows fall under. A lot fall under C which is medicore. Not terrible but really average. The FW series in terms of writing and presentation probably fell into Tier B. Tier A I would reserve for the first couple of seasons of The Real Ghostbusters for example. He-Man was probably B, I would put Transformers under C since that was really the toy commercial you're accusing the FW series of being. My point is that the FW series based on it's writing, (regardless of it's pop culture reputation) wasn't the best but amongst it's contemporaries was certainly not the worst. You need to give it more credit. I agree with you what you said a couple of weeks ago that if they went back, and worked out continuity and animation issues the show would be seen by today's generation as holding up better. But for a show that was at the time unique and engaged in my imagination with it's cool sci-fi plots it did a great job and made me the fan I am today. :)

Uh huh... And I watched Lois & Clark, Superman TAS, Smallville and the Donner Superman movies growing up but they didn't all make an equal impact on me.It's more a generation thing. You find it difficult to relate to TV shows or films that were shown while you've been living. We're all like that to extent, some people really hate black and white films. It's really about putting it all into context and appreciating that stuff.

As for West's death and the revived interest in the '66 Batman show... Look, this kind of thing always happens when a celebrity dies, when Stan Lee dies you can bet sales for reprints of classic Marvel is going to go through the roof. And of course the home release of a once huge show that's been in copyright limbo for decades is going to sell well. The revived interest just isn't that surprising to me. It's going to fade away again eventually.

I know. It's just that not everyone shares your sentiment and I don't think future generations will.Nah, it's not a recent thing. As mentioned elsewhere West's popularity with the 66 Batman show has lasted since it was on the air. Some nostalgia is involved however the reason the 60s TV show has lasted in popularity is because it was so different to what came before. It came at exactly the right time to make a great impression and a huge impact on pop culture. That's not something that will ever really disappear. If you're talking about generations into the future well what makes you think people will remember TMNT in 100 years? :D

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't care if people remember TMNT in 100 years. What it's important is that it's popular now.

[DestronMirage22]

What it's important is that it's popular now.

Eh........Relatively speaking, sure.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The FW turtles saved the day with their explosive throwing stars. Also had some pretty cool moments in each fight scene they were involved in, which rarely happened in their own show.

Donatello used one in in "Return of the Technodrome" to break the Technodrome walls.

[ToTheNines]

Ok. Cool man.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Eh........Relatively speaking, sure.

Some things seem to survive just because older generations talk about how great it was.

[pferreira]

Some things seem to survive just because older generations talk about how great it was.Good and bad reputations can go a long way yes.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Good and bad reputations can go a long way yes.

Yes, a lot of things would probably be dead if it wasn't for that.