Sinking ratings, is nostalgia not working? [Archive]

Vegita-San

04-08-2016, 11:49 AM

The Nick show debuted in 2012 with 3.92 million strong. The whole season they averaged about 2.9 million. Season 2 closed out averaging about 2.5 million. Season 3, significantly less at about 1.9. Season 4 even less at about 1.7... and "Trans-Dimensional Turtles," almost a new series low at 1.53 million viewers. Ouch.

Was "Trans-Dimensional Turtles" a bad idea? Are they overestimating the value of Fred Wolf nostalgia, or is the Nick show simply overstaying its shelf life?

venturing out of my safe area for a bit.

To me, it's just not that strong a show. and it's a shame because it has a potential to be.

The cast is amazing. the animation is great. The Music is superb.
But the show itself is just kind of....everywhere.

It can't decide if it wants to be brazenly serious, brazenly comedic, brazenly horror.

It forgets plot points. it throws out cool plot points that get forgotten about (aprils mother,anyone?) . Characters show up at random. There is NO REASON to have a Krang Prime if it's not a main character. why even bother having it?

Karai's all but been forgotten about. Shredder shows up when they remember he's in the show. Baxters been all but forgotten about.

this show is like its' being run by 5 different people and not one is on the same page.

And these super long breaks in between episodes isn't helping it either. by the time you get used to the show being back, it's gone again for two months.

This is the first turtle series I haven't seen episodes more than once. Me. one of the biggest turtle fans out there.

there's just not enough new ground covered. and the old ground that is revisited just isn't done well enough to capture my imagination. except leatherhead and Bebop and Rocksteady. those I think they got right. everything else, not so much.

this thing feels like it's run too much by committee rather than by fans with a plan.

neatoman

04-08-2016, 11:50 AM

The Nickelodeon cartoon was originally meant to coincide with the movie, but then the movie got delayed which resulted in the cartoon debuting two years before the movie. It is my belief that the cartoon we have now was probably intended as placeholder that would eventually be replaced by (or molded into) a show based on the movie to emphasise brand name synergy. It's a rather common practice, shows like these don't typically last more than two or three seasons.

If this is correct, then the show will most likely end next year to be replaced with a new show a couple of months later. You can tell by the somewhat wishy washy story that the show has probably outlived it's intended lifespan, which is why kids might not feel like watching the show anymore.

As for nostalgia, I guess there aren't that many adults who get excited about the Fred Wolf Turtles anymore and I don't think children are that interested in a cartoon that hasn't been on the air for twenty years.

Utrommaniac

04-08-2016, 11:50 AM

I think the problem is that they aired it on Easter Sunday, airing when most families would be at church for Easter service.

Now, it was probably enough of a bad move to have it set on Sunday at 11 in general (when most Sunday services take place), but Easter was probably a really bad time to have a special crossover.

Vicky82

04-08-2016, 11:50 AM

Don't know if you can blame it on that... a couple months before it on 1/31, "The War for Dimension X" only garnered 1.35. Double ouch.

But it was also on I tunes before it aired.

Phoenix Fire

04-08-2016, 12:01 PM

But if anything, the Nick TMNT cartoon ratings took a sharp decline when the last movie came out. By that logic, the next one might just sink it.

Good point. Its hard to say I guess, I just hope we don't see the next series mirror the movies. I know people have different opinions on the movies, but I for one wouldn't be ecstatic. :ohwell:

NinjaPug

04-08-2016, 12:01 PM

But it was also on I tunes before it aired.

Episodes have been out on iTunes before they aired dating back to S2. Ratings are falling and it has nothing to do with iTunes.

Vicky82

04-08-2016, 12:12 PM

Episodes have been out on iTunes before they aired dating back to S2. Ratings are falling and it has nothing to do with iTunes.

Actually ITunes didn't air Season 3 episodes before they aired on Nick, only Season 2 episodes and the ratings were falling then.

I think the other reason the ratings are falling is because of Nickelodeons bad scheduling.

I expect a lot of people record the episodes now and watch later.

ABrown

04-08-2016, 12:20 PM

Here's a thought: it's not that great of a show. If it wasn't "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", I wouldn't even watch the show. To me, the brand is all that the show has going for it.

TMNachoT

04-08-2016, 12:21 PM

I´m not interested in this show, don´t like it. This has been my opinion since the middle of the first season.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 12:23 PM

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 12:32 PM

This thread is baffling. All cartoon shows decline in ratings after the first season, this happens in the history of anything.

Go look up the ratings for the 4kids series if its archived online anywhere, you'll see the same decline in ratings.

I wish I knew more about cartoon ratings... but looking at something like Nick's Avatar: The Last Airbender, that never dipped below 3.5 million viewers its entire run. TMNT is now struggling to stay above a single million viewers... on the surface, that seems pretty dire.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 12:42 PM

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 12:46 PM

Avatar aired a decade ago. It began in 2005 and ended around 2008-2009, didn't it?

The whole media landscape is vastly different now than in the early 2000's. Now most kids watch episodes online, they don't even watch shows on TV anymore.

But even peeking at a recent show like "Sam and Cat" on Nick, that managed to stay afloat well above 3 million its whole run. Why would kids be more apt to not watch TMNT on TV but watch something like Sam and Cat on TV instead?

Seems pretty clear that the kiddies and audiences in general are just walking away from Nick TMNT.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 12:47 PM

But even peeking at a recent show like "Sam and Cat" on Nick, that managed to stay afloat well above 3 million its whole run. Why would kids be more apt to not watch TMNT on TV but watch something like Sam and cat on TV instead?

Because young 10-13 year old boys and girls enjoy seeing scenes like this:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/654cf6b751f2623b0d570f08facee6c4/tumblr_mqpqv6q7wb1qbb7qqo1_500.gif

ABrown

04-08-2016, 01:20 PM

But even peeking at a recent show like "Sam and Cat" on Nick, that managed to stay afloat well above 3 million its whole run. Why would kids be more apt to not watch TMNT on TV but watch something like Sam and Cat on TV instead?

Well Sam And Cat wasn't exactly for the same target audience. Nick's TMNT is targeted towards 5-10 year old boys. Whereas S&C's target audience was preteen/teenage boys AND girls. Also, new episodes of S&C aired in prime time, while the new TMNT episodes air on Sunday mornings.

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 01:25 PM

Well Sam And Cat wasn't exactly for the same target audience. Nick's TMNT is targeted towards 5-10 year old boys. Whereas S&C's target audience was preteen/teenage boys AND girls. Also, new episodes of S&C aired in prime time, while the new TMNT episodes air on Sunday mornings.

You were watching Sam & Cat. Weren't you.

ABrown

04-08-2016, 02:37 PM

You were watching Sam & Cat. Weren't you.

I didn't really like it. Though I absolutely LOVED Victorious. That was a good show. ICarly wasn't bad either. But S&C was definitely the worst of the three shows.

shredder orokusaki

04-08-2016, 02:40 PM

It is because there are a lot more peolle nowdays who watch shows online on their pc than on TV. Thanks to the internet we dont need to watch it at the timre it plays on tv. When 2003 and 1987 shows aired you couldnt find the episodes on the internet. Nowdays evry new episode of a show(any show not just TMNT) can be watched for free on the internet at the same day that it plays on TV. I am sure Nick cares more about the sales of episodes on Itunes than the ratings on TV. That because they dont make any money from high ratings/people who watch it on tv but they make lot of money from the people who buy it from Itunes. Do you understand it? It is and will always be the best action adventure show ever. Nothing can beat tmnt

thundermaster612

04-08-2016, 03:22 PM

Avatar aired a decade ago. It began in 2005 and ended around 2008-2009, didn't it?

The whole media landscape is vastly different now than in the early 2000's. Now most kids watch episodes online, they don't even watch shows on TV anymore.

I have to watch the episodes online, my TV doesn't have Nickelodeon :tsad:
But I'm sure the movies might put up a bit of interest

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 03:33 PM

I have to watch the episodes online, my TV doesn't have Nickelodeon :tsad:
But I'm sure the movies might put up a bit of interest

Again, the ratings actually went down -- and fairly significantly -- when the last movie came out. Whether that's coincidence or not, I'm not sure... but it's a pretty fair indicator that new movies won't help.

The Happy One

04-08-2016, 03:42 PM

But even peeking at a recent show like "Sam and Cat" on Nick, that managed to stay afloat well above 3 million its whole run. Why would kids be more apt to not watch TMNT on TV but watch something like Sam and Cat on TV instead?

Seems pretty clear that the kiddies and audiences in general are just walking away from Nick TMNT.

Good question. But you have to remember that most people regularly watching TMNT aren't kids. It's adults and young adults and that means a lot of them are busy. Me, personally, have just enough time to see the ep before I have to head out...some people, not so much. That's where streaming and watching online come from. Like Vicky pointed out, ITunes is a big one that people use.

Where as with that Sam and Cat thing- the people who watch that regularly are 13 and younger...most 13 and under kids don't say 'darn I'm so busy today I'll just stream or catch it on ITunes'.

So, those shows get those views.

But, anyway...the show's sucess- like a bunch of cartoons- relies heavily on toy sales rather that views. :)

Heh..oops, didn't realize this was basically already covered. Sorry, folks

LeotheLateBloomer

04-08-2016, 03:49 PM

Would you guys say that there are more adults watching the Nick series more than kids, despite how many kids have the merchandise for it?

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 03:53 PM

Would you guys say that there are more adults watching the Nick series more than kids

Not remotely.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 04:28 PM

I think a lot of you forget how quickly kids interest in shows fade. The Nick show started in 2012...its now 2016. A kid who was 10 in 2012 is now 14 years old...a teenager. He's in the phase where cartoons are "uncool" and wants to grow up.

A kid who was 8 back in 2012 is now 12 years old in 2016. Maybe the 12 year old doesn't want to watch cartoons anymore.

Some of you forget how quickly kids tastes change and how quickly they grow up nowadays. Likewise most kids today are distracted by social media, minecraft, youtube, etc....that our generation didn't have when we were younger.

Aaronardo

04-08-2016, 04:37 PM

Are we forgetting that ratings for kids' animation in general is dropping? Imagine the gradual decline seen on this show, but for almost every other show (the same trend applies to Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, the sort). This is mostly either due to children "growing up" and none that take their place because they feel "grown up" already (highly unlikely), or most people watch them digitally/illegally.
That's pretty much the case for every animated kids' show right now, and TMNT isn't the exception. Teen Titans Go is the only exception as far as I know.

Andrew NDB

04-08-2016, 04:40 PM

This is mostly either due to children "growing up" and none that take their place because they feel "grown up" already (highly unlikely), or most people watch them digitally/illegally.

I'm imagining like an army of millions of 9 year olds getting on Pirate Bay and torrenting episodes of Nickelodeon TMNT... and it being completely ridiculous. Because that's not happening.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 04:44 PM

I'm imagining like an army of millions of 9 year olds getting on Pirate Bay and torrenting episodes of Nickelodeon TMNT... and it being completely ridiculous. Because that's not happening.

Most kids shows are easily found just by typing it into google. We're not in 2005 anymore, every TV show is on the internet streaming. You don't even need to torrent anymore.

shredder orokusaki

04-08-2016, 04:46 PM

I'm imagining like an army of millions of 9 year olds getting on Pirate Bay and torrenting episodes of Nickelodeon TMNT... and it being completely ridiculous. Because that's not happening.

There is an army of pitates that torrenting all tv shows. It dosent matter if most of hem are kids or adults but there are many people who prefer to download a episode from pirate bay and watch it any time they wat than to watch it when it airs on tv.

plastroncafe

04-08-2016, 04:53 PM

venturing out of my safe area for a bit.

To me, it's just not that strong a show. and it's a shame because it has a potential to be.

The cast is amazing. the animation is great. The Music is superb.
But the show itself is just kind of....everywhere.

It can't decide if it wants to be brazenly serious, brazenly comedic, brazenly horror.

It forgets plot points. it throws out cool plot points that get forgotten about (aprils mother,anyone?) . Characters show up at random. There is NO REASON to have a Krang Prime if it's not a main character. why even bother having it?

Karai's all but been forgotten about. Shredder shows up when they remember he's in the show. Baxters been all but forgotten about.

this show is like its' being run by 5 different people and not one is on the same page.

And these super long breaks in between episodes isn't helping it either. by the time you get used to the show being back, it's gone again for two months.

This is the first turtle series I haven't seen episodes more than once. Me. one of the biggest turtle fans out there.

there's just not enough new ground covered. and the old ground that is revisited just isn't done well enough to capture my imagination. except leatherhead and Bebop and Rocksteady. those I think they got right. everything else, not so much.

this thing feels like it's run too much by committee rather than by fans with a plan.

I can't possibly ^^^THIS^^^ this more.

snake

04-08-2016, 05:04 PM

Nick f*cked up with the constant breaks, sh*t advertising, and no one knowing when the show is on. Not to mention not even increasing the budget as the show went along.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 05:10 PM

I can't possibly ^^^THIS^^^ this more.

Except most of what that guy says isn't true. There are no forgotten plots. Karai isn't forgotten about. Its almost like some people don't get the concept of recurring villains, they don't have to be in every single episode.

Likewise most of the updates to old characters have been very creative and surprising.

Commenter 42

04-08-2016, 05:31 PM

But if anything, the Nick TMNT cartoon ratings took a sharp decline when the last movie came out. By that logic, the next one might just sink it.

This IS what's happening. Bay is killing TMNT, by both diluting and polluting the brand.

Outside of that, The nostalgia window is closing. I think people are sick of re-treads in general, tbh.

ssjup81

04-08-2016, 06:57 PM

I still feel that the inconsistent times and the breaks have a lot to do with it, along with the fact that people view a lot of media online these days, where ratings aren't accounted for.

I know I mentioned this before. Didn't you all say that sometimes they would change the time of the program or when it goes into a break, they don't just air the 2k12 show in that slot? To me that's just unusual. I used Rugrats as an example before.

Back then, during its first run, Rugrats was "canceled", so to speak, and they just constantly played reruns. During its hiatus, it garnered its popularity, hence new eps were made. Even though Rugrats didn't have any new episodes at that time, it still kept its primary time slot. I knew that if I tuned in on that day at that time, Rugrats would be on, regardless if it was a rerun or not. I don't think this show does that (you guys have to tell me). One time you guys said they pre-empted this show for frickin' Full House! Geez....

How can people tune in for the show if it's not shown at a consistent time all the time or every week? I know for me, if I was watching this show (or any show) as a kid, and they kept changing up how it was shown, I would just stop watching due to forgetting when it comes on since it changes and isn't consistent.

The show also isn't promoted much, right? You guys have to inform me of this one. If it's not being properly promoted, how can people tune in to watch it?

Other problem...many people can just watch the show (along with other things) online now. It's not like how it was years ago where your only choice was to either watch it when it aired or just hope for a rerun of what you missed on TV.

Other issue...people are losing interest, but that goes for any show over a course of time, but I feel that a lot of factors aid to why this show's ratings have dropped.

thundermaster612

04-08-2016, 07:01 PM

If nostalgia really is the issue then why not create new characters and new storylines instead of reusing old ones, like they created Dogpound and Fishface and they were new and cool (then they mutated Dogpound but that's not the point).

Also random place to point this out but did anyone realize that Mr. Murakami is a reference to the Murakami - Wolf - Swenson thing?

Powder

04-08-2016, 07:13 PM

Yeah, we all thought so at first, but according to Ciro, it's not. There's a guy working on the show who happens to have that same surname. Still works just fine as an incidental reference, at least.

CyberCubed

04-08-2016, 07:22 PM

If nostalgia really is the issue then why not create new characters and new storylines instead of reusing old ones, l?

But Nick has created a ton of new characters, so I don't understand where this "myth" that all Nick does is re-use Fred Wolf characters comes from. They've brought back old Mirage, original toon, 4kids, and Archie characters into the show and created new ones.

miru

04-08-2016, 07:24 PM

I'd go with the lack of marketing, the horrible Northampton arc, and Bay's damage of the franchise as the causes of this.

Shark_Blade

04-08-2016, 07:30 PM

TV ratings are nothing tbh. Most people watch online nowadays.

As long the toys and merchs keep selling, we're good.

thundermaster612

04-08-2016, 07:34 PM

But Nick has created a ton of new characters, so I don't understand where this "myth" that all Nick does is re-use Fred Wolf characters comes from. They've brought back old Mirage, original toon, 4kids, and Archie characters into the show and created new ones.

Well lately reusing old characters is all Nick does, I dunno I want to see a new character whos a space cannibal that eats turtles named Canurtle or something...

I'm at least glad that KavaXas is new

ssjup81

04-08-2016, 08:39 PM

Well lately reusing old characters is all Nick does, I dunno I want to see a new character whos a space cannibal that eats turtles named Canurtle or something...

I'm at least glad that KavaXas is newBut here's the thing....what's old to you is new to somebody else. Not everyone has watched/read all the other incarnations of this 30+ year old franchise.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 02:30 AM

I kinda agree, the vast majority of "old characters" are basically new for most of the fanbase. Especially given some characters are given drastically different origins or personalities.

Mona Lisa is an alien in this series, in the original she was a mutant. Lord Dregg is different here than he was in the OT, Armaggon isn't a time traveling shark like he was in Archie, etc.

shredder orokusaki

04-09-2016, 02:43 AM

TV ratings are nothing tbh. Most people watch online nowadays.

As long the toys and merchs keep selling, we're good.

Exaxtly. The people who watch shows on tv are a minority compared to those who watch online. The money that Nickelodeon is making from episodes s sales on Itunes and the sales of toys is what is keeping the slow alive. And since both the sales of episodes and toys are very very high we have nothing to worry about.

Andrew NDB

04-09-2016, 02:52 AM

Exaxtly. The people who watch shows on tv are a minority compared to those who watch online. The money that Nickelodeon is making from episodes s sales on Itunes and the sales of toys is what is keeping the slow alive. And since both the sales of episodes and toys are very very high we have nothing to worry about.

iTunes? While I'm sure that accounts for a smidgen of the totality of their profits, that's pretty far from say, Agents of SHIELD or something. Little kids (you know, like the actual TARGET audience who account for 98.5% of the people watching TMNT on Nickelodeon beyond the 2000 active fans on this board who are just watching a thing because it has the name "TMNT" in it) are simply not watching TMNT on their mommy and daddy's iPhone or iPad at cost. No little kids of lower to middle class, to be sure. Are 95% of the adults like you and I probably pirating or watching the Nick show in means other than ones legal and clear? Sure, probably... but two sh*ts in a bucket matter about that, as we are the weird adults watching children's cartoon who account for ridiculously less % than apparently a lot of folks around this forum seem to think.

The toys? Absolutely. That's paramount. Always has been.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 02:55 AM

The show has already been renewed for Season 5, and we're only halfway into Season 4 airing right now. So the show will go on through 2017 at least.

I highly suspect the show will get 7 seasons like the 2k3 series did before they call it quits.

lonewarrior20

04-09-2016, 04:15 AM

it's the time slot. most people aren't home to watch it. they're either at church or their working. i loved it when they switched the show to friday night for while.

Metalwolf

04-09-2016, 01:13 PM

OK, so we have a lot of folks saying that a lot of the kiddies are watching this show online now. Do we have any thing that shows what the online ratings are?

That might help shed light on what the true status of this show is.:roll:

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 01:17 PM

Kids are watching the show online illegally. You can't keep track of something like that.

You guys do realize that there are sites that put up every kids cartoon online streaming for free? And they're all easily found by a quick google search? You don't even have to use torrents anymore. What time period are some of you living in? We're not in 2002 anymore!

Prowler

04-09-2016, 01:22 PM

What about the toy sales? How have they been faring lately?

Utrommaniac

04-09-2016, 01:37 PM

Well...I would say that everyone's got it.

- Easy access to online streaming; Nick's streaming site sucks, so of course people would be looking for other ways to watch it. Even if it means illegally.

- Time slot and day. Sundays at 11? Bad move

- Age change in audience. The original audience is made up of teenagers, and those who are keeping up are nostalgic adults or the loyal dregs of the original audience.

Powder

04-09-2016, 03:25 PM

most people ... at church

In pockets of the south, maybe. Otherwise, not so much. It is a far less common practice these days.

ToTheNines

04-09-2016, 03:42 PM

In pockets of the south, maybe. Otherwise, not so much. It is a far less common practice these days.

I dunno man, I work in DC a lot. It's a pretty liberal area and it's littered with all different kinds of churches.

Traveling all over the east coast, I see them everywhere. I know that just because they're there doesn't mean people are going, but I feel like it's still pretty common.

Powder

04-09-2016, 03:46 PM

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-09-2016, 03:47 PM

A kid who was 8 back in 2012 is now 12 years old in 2016. Maybe the 12 year old doesn't want to watch cartoons anymore

I wanted to watch many action cartoons at 12 (and older), but ended up feeling ashame and had to watch threw the windows that noone saw me.

Konchadunga

04-09-2016, 03:52 PM

The only way I can really put this is, it's boring. It used to be more interesting; this series had a good sense of humor at the start, and it seemed like a lot of the ideas they were experimenting with had potential. Its reinvention of old characters was generally impressive. Unfortunately, it now feels like it's just treading water. There aren't enough jokes, there isn't enough suspense, there isn't much character development; it all just is.

I think the problem might be that they've thrusted the series into a whole new scenario faster than they have time to develop it. While this series' villains were never deep, with the Triceratons it seems like they've reached an all-new generic low for villains; it manages to turn the race against time to save Earth from destruction into something I don't care about, because the villains looking to destroy it don't leave any impression on me; it's impossible to suspend disbelief.

The scenarios they go through in space just come and go too rapidly to make an impression, too. Maybe a Lovecraft-inspired ocean world would be interesting if they fleshed it out; as it is, it's just one of many nods to science fiction mainstays they're doing here. Same with an alien town that looks like Tatooine, a basic scenario that looks like Star Trek, an actor from Doctor Who etc. In this case, no; I don't think catering to nostalgia works, because you can't just survive on references to things people like. Diving into why they like them is more important. As somebody on these forums, maybe or maybe not the thread creator, once put it, "Hey; remember that" is not clever writing.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 03:55 PM

There aren't enough jokes, there isn't enough suspense, there isn't much character development; it all just is.

Some of the jokes are still very funny. I at least crack a smile over some lines or scenarios in every episode. Obviously the humor is aimed at kids, so a 25-30+ year old adult isn't going to burst out laughing.

I think the problem might be that they've thrusted the series into a whole new scenario faster than they have time to develop it. While this series' villains were never deep, with the Triceratons it seems like they've reached an all-new generic low for villains; it manages to turn the race against time to save Earth from destruction into something I don't care about, because the villains looking to destroy it don't leave any impression on me; it's impossible to suspend disbelief.

This is odd. I find the Triceratons, Dregg and Armaggon to all be great new villains in their Nick incarnations. They basically have one-shot villains and recurring ones like on Earth.

The scenarios they go through in space just come and go too rapidly to make an impression, too. Maybe a Lovecraft-inspired ocean world would be interesting if they fleshed it out; as it is, it's just one of many nods to science fiction mainstays they're doing here. Same with an alien town that looks like Tatooine, a basic scenario that looks like Star Trek, an actor from Doctor Who etc. In this case, no; I don't think catering to nostalgia works, because you can't just survive on references to things people like. Diving into why they like them is more important.

The Turtles travel through space and into generic alien worlds in every series. Mirage, Fred Wolf, 2k3, Archie, etc. did this all the time. How is this any different?

Konchadunga

04-09-2016, 04:06 PM

Some of the jokes are still very funny. I at least crack a smile over some lines or scenarios in every episode. Obviously the humor is aimed at kids, so a 25-30+ year old adult isn't going to burst out laughing.

Except that yeah; I used to burst out laughing at this show, and at the Fred Wolf show, and at the Mirage series; a great deal less at the 2003 show, but it had its own virtues. Besides, who here can really say if the kids are laughing?

This is odd. I find the Triceratons, Dregg and Armaggon to all be great new villains in their Nick incarnations. They basically have one-shot villains and recurring ones like on Earth.

I admit I kind of like Armagon, but I think it's because he's more of a rogue than another member of a collective without a real identity, but the other two you've mentioned don't leave much impression on me at all.

The Turtles travel through space and into generic alien worlds in every series. Mirage, Fred Wolf, 2k3, Archie, etc. did this all the time. How is this any different?

It's the pacing, I think. When Mirage and 2k3 did the Turtles in Space arc, it held my interest because every story ended with a cliffhanger that fed into the next. This series has the Turtles and their adversaries flying sorties at each other, and that doesn't build suspense.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 04:08 PM

The space arc is basically a half season long story arc. Its 14 episodes of the season (or 13, if you don't count the crossover episode).

And the 2k3 Turtles returned to space several times after the Triceraton arc. What about the one where April and the gang get transported to that bug planet, and they basically fought bugs the entire episode? Its no different than the Nick show.

Papenbrook

04-09-2016, 04:10 PM

Some of the jokes are still very funny. I at least crack a smile over some lines or scenarios in every episode. Obviously the humor is aimed at kids, so a 25-30+ year old adult isn't going to burst out laughing.

However, less kids are watching the show, CyberCubed. Look at the ratings. Kids are starting to get older/bored, so they aren't watching the show as much.

This is odd. I find the Triceratons, Dregg and Armaggon to all be great new villains in their Nick incarnations. They basically have one-shot villains and recurring ones like on Earth.

That is your opinion. Not everyone else's.

Turtles travel through space and into generic alien worlds in every series. Mirage, Fred Wolf, 2k3, Archie, etc. did this all the time. How is this any different?

The Nickelodeon series has filler in between those episodes, CyberCubed. Why do you think there are thirteen episodes in this arc?

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 04:12 PM

However, less kids are watching the show, CyberCubed. Look at the ratings. Kids are starting to get older/bored, so they aren't watching the show as much.

The Nick show started 4 years ago, those kids grew into teenagers.

The Nickelodeon series has filler in between those episodes, CyberCubed. Why do you think there are thirteen episodes in this arc?

13 episodes with about 3-4, at most, fillers. What's the problem? We can't have fun filler on the side?

Konchadunga

04-09-2016, 04:20 PM

I just had a thought: I'm not trying to start a fandom rivalry, here, but declining interest as of late might be down to the fact that Star Wars is now back in full-force. (No pun intended.) If they're trying to do a space-based story arc, then they need to give it a lot of gas to go up against the series that canonized many of that genre's tropes.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 04:20 PM

Papenbrook

04-09-2016, 04:25 PM

The Nick show started 4 years ago, those kids grew into teenagers.

As a result, less people are watching the show. However, you could also tie in promotion failure as the reason that fewer people are tuning in.

episodes with about 3-4, at most, fillers. What's the problem? We can't have fun filler on the side?

The fillers contradict the tone that the arc is trying to achieve. We have a silly episode like "The Weird World of Wyrm", and a serious episode like "Revenge of The Triceretons", in the same arc.

shredder orokusaki

04-09-2016, 04:42 PM

iTunes? While I'm sure that accounts for a smidgen of the totality of their profits, that's pretty far from say, Agents of SHIELD or something. Little kids (you know, like the actual TARGET audience who account for 98.5% of the people watching TMNT on Nickelodeon beyond the 2000 active fans on this board who are just watching a thing because it has the name "TMNT" in it) are simply not watching TMNT on their mommy and daddy's iPhone or iPad at cost. No little kids of lower to middle class, to be sure. Are 95% of the adults like you and I probably pirating or watching the Nick show in means other than ones legal and clear? Sure, probably... but two sh*ts in a bucket matter about that, as we are the weird adults watching children's cartoon who account for ridiculously less % than apparently a lot of folks around this forum seem to think.

The toys? Absolutely. That's paramount. Always has been.

I dont know about kids but from my experience i have realized most adults like us are watching it on our pc's, at least that how i and many of my friends are watching it if at the time a episode airs on tv i have something else to do but even when i watch it on tv i later watch it again on my pc because my tv is is a very old , it is a10 years old 32'' 720p while my pc monitor is 1080p 60 hz ips 21,5'' so i get the best experience(best graphics and image quality) by watching it on my pc since it also has a poweful gaming graphic card(GTX 970 G1 GAMING 4GB) that provides crystal clear image and detailed graphics in both tv shows and games.

OrangeNinja1987

04-09-2016, 05:04 PM

The kids watching the show today probably don't know much about Star Wars unless their parents or older siblings take them to see it.

What world do you live in? Children are outcasted for not seeing Star Wars, especially as of late!

miru

04-09-2016, 05:30 PM

The fillers contradict the tone that the arc is trying to achieve. We have a silly episode like "The Weird World of Wyrm", and a serious episode like "Revenge of The Triceretons", in the same arc.

Also, the filler episodes are made over episodes addressing important plot points such as Mutagen Man, April's mom, etc. that have yet to be addressed in the series. They keep adding new feral mutants that from then on are only background characters, adding more fuel to the fire. This is the main reason I LOVE "The Creeping Doom" 2 older characters come back and they tie the whole thing to a plot-point.

neatoman

04-09-2016, 05:33 PM

The kids watching the show today probably don't know much about Star Wars unless their parents or older siblings take them to see it.

... Are you serious? There are seven movies in the main series, all of which have always been easy to find on home video (given the time it takes to get home video releases of course) and the first six have probably been shown on TV so many times it's near damn impossible to never have caught them at some point. In addition to the seven main series movies, there are:

Three spin-off movies
Two upcoming main series movies
Two upcoming spin-off movies
Four TV shows, roughly two hundred episodes in total
A steady stream of comics since 1977 consisting of over 1000 issues
A steady stream of video games since 1983, too many to count
Books being released since 1978 and yearly since 1991, so many in fact I can't find a list of how many and can't count them all

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 05:38 PM

When I was younger I didn't get into Star Wars until I was like 12-13. I'd seen pieces of the movies before, but I never actually sat down to watch a Star Wars movie from start to finish until I was around 12 or so.

Also, the filler episodes are made over episodes addressing important plot points such as Mutagen Man, April's mom, etc. that have yet to be addressed in the series. They keep adding new feral mutants that from then on are only background characters, adding more fuel to the fire. This is the main reason I LOVE "The Creeping Doom" 2 older characters come back and they tie the whole thing to a plot-point.

What does it matter how many mutants they add? Not ever single one of them needs a fleshed out story, most of them are mindless monsters.

ToTheNines

04-09-2016, 05:50 PM

srmff

04-09-2016, 06:30 PM

I don't know. I've only ever seen the prequels aired on TV and they turned me right off it the first time that I watched a bit of it and that was on only two occasions that I can remember. In all honesty I don't think many of the people in my year at school had seen it, especially girls. There was a bit of a stigma that if you watched or liked Star Wars or Star Trek you were a nerd so avoid. That can really put people off when they want to be seen as 'cool.' That's probably changed recently due to The Force Awakens and the amount of people that have gone to see it. A friend of mine recently decided to watch them because of all the hype surrounding the new movie. She's 18 and it's the first time she's seen it so that's saying something. Obviously people recognise Darth Vader, lightsabers, stormtroopers, 'Luke, I am your father' (even though that's not the quote) as being from Star Wars but it doesn't mean they've seen any of the movies. If people don't have certain channels, they won't see the shows. Most people that I know hadn't seen the movies a year ago anyway. This is where I live and it might be completely different in America. I was 9 before I saw any of the films.

In regards to watching online, that's the only way that I can see it. Even if I lived in America, I wouldn't have Nickelodeon. The only reason that I did want to see it was because I'd watched the two previous series growing up and I decided to tune into the show one day.

I don't think Christian parents would have a problem with children watching it unless they're very conservative. It's just fiction. I'm from a Catholic family that go to mass every week and we watched anything that's on TV including stuff that was completely inappropriate for our age. We grew up watching 'Father Ted' (probably haven't heard of it but pokes fun at religion) and that is definitely not the worst that we watched. I only knew one person who would stop their children watching something due to religion but she's the type concerned about evil spirits. I'm not sure if her children were not allowed to watch it but they definitely weren't allowed to play Yu-Gi-Oh cards. I remember giving her children some of my spare cards that I didn't want and she threw them in the fire. It's definitely not the norm and even the local priest gets irritated with her behaviour.

I don't think there are figures for the profit earned from merchandise, online episodes, etc. but merchandise is stocked in shelves, people are seen with merchandise and they get money from it which can't be said for other programmes that Nickelodeon own.

Konchadunga

04-09-2016, 06:48 PM

You're missing the beauty of TMNT. Go read some Eastman and Laird.

I understand that the original TMNT was sometimes episodic and varied wildly in tone, but it's important to remember that a show disappointing people isn't necessarily down to just one reason; it could be many. A show that is episodic and varies in tone might not break the deal if the individual portions are entertaining in themselves, but in this case we're probably at a stalemate--that this series is erratically paced is hard to debate, but whether it's boring is subjective.

As to Star Wars, I may be in a generation gap here; with more and more channels and movies these days, cultural entities aren't as ubiquitous as they were when it premiered, so yeah; maybe it's not a given that every child these days cares about Star Wars--but by the same token, not every child necessarily cares about TMNT, either. It's just one loud, marketable series out of many that's on both the big and small screens these days; others being Marvel, DC, Pokemon and it's rising competitor Yo-Kai Watch, Transformers, and (soon to resume) Ghostbusters.

With so many shows to watch, declining viewership isn't necessarily a matter of being great or terrible; it could just be about degrees of enjoyment. I still follow The Flash and iZombie, but the fellow CW series, Legends of Tomorrow just didn't do it for me after viewing a few episodes.

CyberCubed

04-09-2016, 10:52 PM

Profits of the show don't just come from live ratings. The show is on itunes, there are the DVD releases, there's the toys and merch, there's the reruns, etc.

Likewise, you really think the IDW comics bring in much profit for Nick in comparison? They have to split the profits with IDW for that one, and the comics are a lot more obscure than a cartoon. The Bay movies, again, the money is split among the movie studios and staff.

The Nick cartoon and its merch is the one thing Viacom gets the most money.

TurtleGuy

04-09-2016, 11:42 PM

Personally, I blame the sinking ratings on Spongebob. :trazz:

shredder orokusaki

04-10-2016, 03:19 AM

How does Nickelodeon makes profit from tv ratings? They take money from the sales of toys and DVDS but how can high ratings bring profit? You dont have to pay to watch Nickelodeon on your tv

Chabrendeki

04-10-2016, 03:25 AM

How does Nickelodeon makes profit from tv ratings? They take money from the sales of toys and DVDS but how can high ratings bring profit? You dont have to pay to watch Nickelodeon on your tv

Nope. But they get money for the advertisements shown before, between and after the show. And rating defines how much money they gonna get.

ssjup81

04-10-2016, 05:12 AM

So, out of curiosity, could anyone here confirm the junk I said here? I'm not in the US as most know, so I'm not sure if what I said was on point or not and even if I were home, my family no longer has Nickelodeon as a station.I still feel that the inconsistent times and the breaks have a lot to do with it, along with the fact that people view a lot of media online these days, where ratings aren't accounted for.

I know I mentioned this before. Didn't you all say that sometimes they would change the time of the program or when it goes into a break, they don't just air the 2k12 show in that slot? To me that's just unusual. I used Rugrats as an example before.

Back then, during its first run, Rugrats was "canceled", so to speak, and they just constantly played reruns. During its hiatus, it garnered its popularity, hence new eps were made. Even though Rugrats didn't have any new episodes at that time, it still kept its primary time slot. I knew that if I tuned in on that day at that time, Rugrats would be on, regardless if it was a rerun or not. I don't think this show does that (you guys have to tell me). One time you guys said they pre-empted this show for frickin' Full House! Geez....

How can people tune in for the show if it's not shown at a consistent time all the time or every week? I know for me, if I was watching this show (or any show) as a kid, and they kept changing up how it was shown, I would just stop watching due to forgetting when it comes on since it changes and isn't consistent.

The show also isn't promoted much, right? You guys have to inform me of this one. If it's not being properly promoted, how can people tune in to watch it?

Other problem...many people can just watch the show (along with other things) online now. It's not like how it was years ago where your only choice was to either watch it when it aired or just hope for a rerun of what you missed on TV.

Other issue...people are losing interest, but that goes for any show over a course of time, but I feel that a lot of factors aid to why this show's ratings have dropped.

Prototype

04-15-2016, 10:29 PM

I´m not interested in this show, don´t like it. This has been my opinion since the middle of the first season.

That's my oppinion on every other TMNT-cartoon, movie and comic.

I never liked turtles, untill I found the Nick-series. It's the only TMNT show I enjoy. (I like the Nick-TMNT toys to ofc)

The rest is crap or uninteresting to me.

oldmanwinters

04-16-2016, 02:52 PM

Be that as it may, barring a few exceptions, I've never known TMNT to be of particular fondness to traditionally Christian parents. Violence, eastern spiritual themes, etc. They drummed up a lot of controversy back in the day, as I'm sure you recall. In my experience, kids raised under strong faith were typically not allowed to watch it. Maybe today's Christian parents are different, I dunno.

Speaking from my own experience, I never saw much concern over the TMNT franchise in my own circles back in the day. I'm a Christian of the very conservative sort, and I always have been. It was my impression that things like Dungeons & Dragons, Harry Potter, and even Pokemon evoked far more concern from American Christian parents. Despite the presence of some notable anti-TMNT books penned from Christian writers like Joan Hake Robie (who helped Colonel Sanders write his own biography, BTW), I never even heard of those kind of books until after the internet age caught on. That makes me think they never really caught on it most Christian circles. My uber-conservative Christian parents totally gave me just about every TMNT thing I can remember for birthdays, Christmases, or as a treat at the grocery store. :tgrin:

Coola Yagami

04-16-2016, 03:15 PM

How does Nickelodeon makes profit from tv ratings? They take money from the sales of toys and DVDS but how can high ratings bring profit? You dont have to pay to watch Nickelodeon on your tv

OMG.... this.... this is the first time you ever posted as yourself and not the Shredder..... I.... I don't even know how to react.... I can't even....

Powder

04-16-2016, 03:16 PM

Speaking from my own experience, I never saw much concern over the TMNT franchise in my own circles back in the day. I'm a Christian of the very conservative sort, and I always have been. It was my impression that things like Dungeons & Dragons, Harry Potter, and even Pokemon evoked far more concern from American Christian parents. Despite the presence of some notable anti-TMNT books penned from Christian writers like Joan Hake Robie (who helped Colonel Sanders write his own biography, BTW), I never even heard of those kind of books until after the internet age caught on. That makes me think they never really caught on it most Christian circles. My uber-conservative Christian parents totally gave me just about every TMNT thing I can remember for birthdays, Christmases, or as a treat at the grocery store. :tgrin:

Archie's fan letters section seems to deal with this a lot, "Dean" was catching a lot of heat for that iteration, at least.

OMG.... this.... this is the first time you ever posted as yourself and not the Shredder..... I.... I don't even know how to react.... I can't even....

He's made others.

oldmanwinters

04-16-2016, 05:06 PM

Archie's fan letters section seems to deal with this a lot, "Dean" was catching a lot of heat for that iteration, at least.

Oh, yeah, definitely. As I remember it though, most of the concern letters to "Dean" actually came from kids reading the comics who probably recognized that the religious and philosophical themes explored in the book were different than the core beliefs of Christianity. I recognized that too, but I always thought the comic dealt with it in an interesting way. If there were a ton of angry parents writing into the book, I can't remember them.

I don't think Murph's exploration of pluarlism ever became a notable issue for most parents, however, because the Archie Comics were read by a much smaller percentage of kids who would have watched the cartoons, movies, and begged their parents for merchandise.

But you know Joan Hake Robie would have had a field day with another book if she had ever bothered to read those mid-to-late run Archie issues!

Groverman62

04-16-2016, 08:44 PM

This show is sinking in ratings because its just not really good anymore.

CyberCubed

04-16-2016, 08:45 PM

This show is sinking in ratings because its just not really good anymore.

Except this is false, both ways. Kids watching the show now may not even have seen the earlier seasons, and the quality of the show is the same as its always been.

ABrown

04-16-2016, 10:13 PM

and the quality of the show is the same as its always been.

Unfortunately, that's true. The quality is the same as its always been. :roll:

ssjup81

04-16-2016, 10:32 PM

OMG.... this.... this is the first time you ever posted as yourself and not the Shredder..... I.... I don't even know how to react.... I can't even....What do you mean? He's posted as himself many times.

Rukitron

04-17-2016, 03:31 AM

When we get the inevitable 202X reboot. I just hope they stay far far far far far far away from using the movie designs as an influence. Also would be nice if they go back to 2d.

neatoman

04-17-2016, 05:49 AM

When we get the inevitable 202X reboot. I just hope they stay far far far far far far away from using the movie designs as an influence. Also would be nice if they go back to 2d.

I would personally bet on the reboot happening before 2020.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-17-2016, 10:39 AM

AnarkyLantern

04-28-2016, 11:49 PM

RE: the Christian thing. When the original show was on, I spent summers near my grandma's place in Florida and there was this tv ad I saw there once warning against "Asian themes" in cartoons- complete with audio from Tmnt.

Nickelodeon has had trouble with ratings in recent years but there's also a move away from the action half hour. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Tmnt show uses the 11 minute episode format like Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Titans go and the upcoming JLAction.

neatoman

04-29-2016, 03:54 AM

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-29-2016, 05:26 PM

Utrommaniac

04-29-2016, 05:43 PM

Or this

http://tmntentity.blogspot.se/2011/06/christianity-vs-ninja-turtles.html

So, when was Krang the spiritual leader of Shredder and in a demonic-like figure? Krang is an extraterrestrial from Dimension X inside a robot.

Learn first, critizise then!

Well...you wouldn't be wrong in IDW's Secret History of the Foot Clan. Krang was certainly considered a demon to the point that it was in the name he was given. Except for the spiritual leader part.

neatoman

04-29-2016, 05:54 PM

Or this

http://tmntentity.blogspot.se/2011/06/christianity-vs-ninja-turtles.html

So, when was Krang the spiritual leader of Shredder and in a demonic-like figure? Krang is an extraterrestrial from Dimension X inside a robot.

Learn first, critizise then!

I wonder how certain bible passages would turn out if you replaced "God" with "Krang"...

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-29-2016, 06:13 PM

I can't recall any such letter to the Swedish letters column of the Archie Comics.

Powder

04-29-2016, 06:52 PM

I wonder how certain bible passages would turn out if you replaced "God" with "Krang"...

I'd read that. :tlol:

Utrommaniac

04-29-2016, 07:08 PM

I wonder how certain bible passages would turn out if you replaced "God" with "Krang"...

I'd read that. :tlol:

I can't seem to find anything that would beat this one.
1 John 3:2 - Beloved, we are Krang's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears [1] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Wolfie65

04-29-2016, 08:26 PM

Almost all TV series decline, often rather sharply, after season 1 - provided they even make it that far.
As much as it pains me to say this, the quality has been slipping since Showdown in Dimension X, they've forgotten about a lot of the Ninja stuff, there are WAY too many mutants, Earth gets blown up, invaded, slimed, swallowed whole WAY too often - kinda reminds me of some wargaming friends who feel the need to re-fight Waterloo or Helm's Deep every single weekend - there are only so many times you can watch Mikey get swung by around by his very own nunchucks by some bad guy (is he or isn't he a Ninja ?), and on it goes.

Too bad, because never before have the Turtles been more true to their Teenage Mutant Ninja selves, the story lines in seasons 1 & 2 were good to brilliant, the animation is great (and I say this despite NOT being a CG fan), maybe there's been some change in staff from season 2 to season 3 that shouldn't have happened.

CyberCubed

04-29-2016, 08:28 PM

neatoman

04-30-2016, 04:02 AM

I can't recall any such letter to the Swedish letters column of the Archie Comics.

I did read that once in a copy I found in a second hand store, there were two questions regarding Krang that I can remember. One was "how old is Krang" and the other was "how did Krang meet Shredder", the answers given were "really old" and "you won't find that out".

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-30-2016, 04:35 AM

I did read that once in a copy I found in a second hand store, there were two questions regarding Krang that I can remember. One was "how old is Krang" and the other was "how did Krang meet Shredder", the answers given were "really old" and "you won't find that out".

Yes, there was a letter column called Pizzatajm med... (usually Splinter!) but I menat I never saw any Christian complaints.

neatoman

04-30-2016, 05:03 AM

Yes, there was a letter column called Pizzatajm med... (usually Splinter!) but I menat I never saw any Christian complaints.

That's not very likely to happen here, not even in the early 90's.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-30-2016, 06:16 AM

That's not very likely to happen here, not even in the early 90's.

It would probably take just one angry parent, who knows it maybe never got published. Back in the 1950's and 60's the Swedish Pentecostal Movement said going to cinema was a sin, go out partner dancing was a sin, drinking a glass of wine was sin, girls and women using cosmetics or wearing trousers and short skirts was a sin. Rock music with Elvis Presley was a sin.

In general, these times are gone yes but hard rock and heavy metal got several complaints during the 1970's, 80's and early 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_rOS3U15I

Ever heard of this blog:

http://www.apg29.nu/

(it's main purposes seems sometimes to be attacking the Romcan Catholic Church but for example, there has been complaints over Star Wars)

But it's nothing compared to this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05bRVvgAGXM

Laestadianism still follows this and it's not easy to imagine this movement in theory exists within the Church of Sweden:

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/i-vantan-pa-naden/

victory_angel

04-30-2016, 11:33 AM

It would probably take just one angry parent, who knows it maybe never got published. Back in the 1950's and 60's the Swedish Pentecostal Movement said going to cinema was a sin, go out partner dancing was a sin, drinking a glass of wine was sin, girls and women using cosmetics or wearing trousers and short skirts was a sin. Rock music with Elvis Presley was a sin.

In general, these times are gone yes but hard rock and heavy metal got several complaints during the 1970's, 80's and early 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_rOS3U15I

Ever heard of this blog:

http://www.apg29.nu/

(it's main purposes seems sometimes to be attacking the Romcan Catholic Church but for example, there has been complaints over Star Wars)

But it's nothing compared to this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05bRVvgAGXM

Laestadianism still follows this and it's not easy to imagine this movement in theory exists within the Church of Sweden:

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/i-vantan-pa-naden/

There are also religious protesters who stand outside anime and pop culture conventions saying our imagination are a sin and will lead us on a one way ticket to hell.

The Deadman

04-30-2016, 11:53 AM

Since the ratings are sinking i guess i'll marathon the entire series on one of the websites that has the entire series up and for free. Oh, people dont do that nowadays? Oops.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-30-2016, 11:59 AM

There are also religious protesters who stand outside anime and pop culture conventions saying our imagination are a sin and will lead us on a one way ticket to hell.

Like this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy-mwtyj1s0

neatoman

04-30-2016, 12:06 PM

Well it's understandable why fundies are like this, other religions and secular interests are seen as a threat that could dimish their own religion's relevance. Just be thankful they're not stoning people...

Spike Spiegel

04-30-2016, 12:08 PM

RE: the Christian thing. When the original show was on, I spent summers near my grandma's place in Florida and there was this tv ad I saw there once warning against "Asian themes" in cartoons- complete with audio from Tmnt.

I was raised Pentecostal; TMNT was okay since they "helped people." It was Power Rangers and Pokemon that I was forbidden from viewing.

Unfortunately, that's true. The quality is the same as its always been. :roll:

This show has never really grabbed me. I loved 2k3's maturity, but I'd aged out of the demographic for 2k12 long before the pilot even aired. All I see is juvenile storylines and hyperactive plots that never really go anywhere. It reminded me of some of the worst episodes of Teen Titans.

If it gets cancelled and goes away, maybe it'll give the franchise more breathing room, given the new film. Hopefully the nostalgia trend moves towards 2k3 long enough to get a decent DVD re-release.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

04-30-2016, 12:32 PM

I was raised Pentecostal; TMNT was okay since they "helped people." It was Power Rangers and Pokemon that I was forbidden from viewing.

Don't the Power Rangers help people?

This is an interesting topic, worth its own thread.

LS Animation

05-01-2016, 06:04 AM

This show is sinking in ratings because its just not really good anymore.

This. The writing deteriorated. I've been recently re-watching season 1 and 2 episodes of the show and they are so much more exciting than what the season 4 has offered so far.

Wolfie65

05-01-2016, 07:27 AM

The show always had a lot of mutants from day 1, the whole point of this show is mutants.

If you want to see the Turtles fight many human enemies watch the 2k3 series, or read the Mirage and IDW comics. Sure there's still aliens/mutants/monsters in those series too, but the main enemies are the human Foot.

I was never too crazy about that one, the animation is almost amateurish, there's pretty much zero character development or actual differences between the Turtles - even less than in the Fred Wolf series - there's nothing particularly turtle-y, teenage or Ninja about them, they're basically just 4 generic super heroes in green.
4 trash-talkin' Yo!bros, complete with typical 1990's/00's forced Political Correctness applied with a trowel.
Arthur with swords and guns.

snake

05-01-2016, 08:45 AM

I don't know what kind of parents you guys are talkig about because most don't care honestly. You don't see these "pokemon is evil" type on the news or anything anymore

Vegita-San

05-01-2016, 09:14 AM

this is the first turtles show I just never really got into.

I've even rewatched next mutation a bit when it was first run.

This series...there is just something about it that feels...phony... for lack of a better explanation. There's maybe 4 episodes that I feel the need to rewatch every now and then just for fun. the rest, are only one and dones.

the first few seasons came off as weird and boring to me. also discombobulated. this season 4 space arc is the first one where it feels they finally got their act together, and the first one I truly enjoyed.

CyberCubed

05-01-2016, 01:40 PM

I was never too crazy about that one, the animation is almost amateurish, there's pretty much zero character development or actual differences between the Turtles - even less than in the Fred Wolf series - there's nothing particularly turtle-y, teenage or Ninja about them, they're basically just 4 generic super heroes in green.
4 trash-talkin' Yo!bros, complete with typical 1990's/00's forced Political Correctness applied with a trowel.
Arthur with swords and guns.

LOL, what? The 2k3 Turtles have very distinct personalities and the same development as any other series.

Also how in the world can you call the animation "amateurish?" The 2k3 series is still one of the best looking 2D animated shows of the 2000's. What are you talking about?

neatoman

05-01-2016, 02:14 PM

I was never too crazy about that one, the animation is almost amateurish, there's pretty much zero character development or actual differences between the Turtles - even less than in the Fred Wolf series - there's nothing particularly turtle-y, teenage or Ninja about them, they're basically just 4 generic super heroes in green.
4 trash-talkin' Yo!bros, complete with typical 1990's/00's forced Political Correctness applied with a trowel.
Arthur with swords and guns.

Are you trolling? Either that or you can't have watched more than five episodes.

Powder

05-01-2016, 02:29 PM

Are you trolling?

He'd have to be, considering this is what his average post looks like:

The bright side: The worse the movie blows, the sooner it gets to DVD, the sooner I can add another Megan Fox flick to my collection.
It cannot possibly be lamer than Crimes of Fashion and Megs looks pretty good in that one, too.

CyberCubed

05-01-2016, 04:05 PM

This series...there is just something about it that feels...phony... for lack of a better explanation.

Phony? What does that even mean? All the episodes have plots, stories, characters, humor. It also has similar storylines to all previous TMNT incarnations. The CG is good for a TV show budget as well. If you were expecting Pixar quality obviously that wouldn't happen.

the first few seasons came off as weird and boring to me. also discombobulated. this season 4 space arc is the first one where it feels they finally got their act together, and the first one I truly enjoyed.

Really? Seems most people feel the first season had the strongest structure. The show always hovers between important episodes and various mutant of the week episodes.

Wolfie65

05-02-2016, 07:03 AM

LOL, what? The 2k3 Turtles have very distinct personalities and the same development as any other series.

Also how in the world can you call the animation "amateurish?" The 2k3 series is still one of the best looking 2D animated shows of the 2000's. What are you talking about?

Compared to 1930's-50's Disney ALL animation is amateurish.

Distinct personalities ?
Yeah, I forgot: Mikey says 'dude' a lot, Donnie can fix stuff and Raph gets mad.

Not trolling, but if the 4Kids guys are teenagers, turtles or ninjas, I'm an Eskimo baby in Sudan.

neatoman

05-02-2016, 07:30 AM

Compared to 1930's-50's Disney ALL animation is amateurish.

Distinct personalities ?
Yeah, I forgot: Mikey says 'dude' a lot, Donnie can fix stuff and Raph gets mad.

Not trolling, but if the 4Kids guys are teenagers, turtles or ninjas, I'm an Eskimo baby in Sudan.

Hello Eskimo baby in Sudan, I don't see how anyone could deny they're turtles.

Shark_Blade

05-02-2016, 11:25 AM

They're definitely ninjas... not like they are pirates or safari rangers or something.

Metalwolf

05-03-2016, 12:03 AM

This. The writing deteriorated. I've been recently re-watching season 1 and 2 episodes of the show and they are so much more exciting than what the season 4 has offered so far.Can I third this? Except for Manhattan Project I mostly enjoyed many of the episodes of Season 2. Season 3, ...not so much. I couldn' get past the first half, and Season 4 I haven't watched at all.

It started when the henchmen began to get turned into generic villains, escalated with the over-use of nolstagia, and ended with Super Psychic Blast April. I like this show. But I don't what they are doing with this show. They have lost the game plan and they are sinking.

I think they might end it at Season 5, but if they do anything past that, they need to get back to it's roots. Space aliens, time travel and nostalgia are great in small doses, but anything more then that and you risk making the main story look insignificant next to these world shattering events, and having constantly to up the ante so you don't lose the 'wow' factor. While that might be nice to some, after a while I just want to see good ol' Ninja Turtles vs. Foot Clan, not the Earth blowing up just to shock up the slowly sagging ratings and try to revive the interest of some bored youngsters.
'

CyberCubed

05-03-2016, 12:13 AM

Season 3, ...not so much. I couldn' get past the first half, and Season 4 I haven't watched at all.

So you're flat out saying you never watched any of Season 3 beyond the early episodes and none of Season 4, and you think you can accurately judge what the show is now?

Metalwolf

05-03-2016, 12:35 AM

So you're flat out saying you never watched any of Season 3 beyond the early episodes and none of Season 4, and you think you can accurately judge what the show is now?I haven't watched, but I have read a lot about each episode and what people's responses are to them. I know enough to get the gist of them, but if there is something more that I want to know about it I will look it up on sites that have more detail.

There are many people on this site that have stopped at some part of a season, I'm not the only one. Like me, they still find out what's going on, and like me they still comment even if they don't watch many of the episodes.

CyberCubed

05-03-2016, 01:23 AM

And that's not a good enough way to have opinions on a show by reading random thoughts or seeing a handful of pictures/images online. If you haven't watched since the Northampton arc you don't have a good deal of knowledge/opinion of what's going on.

Also makes me wonder why you're still following info on this show if you stopped watching roughly a year and a half ago. I'm pretty sure the Northampton arc ended in early 2015, or maybe even before that.

Wolfie65

05-03-2016, 07:48 AM

Can I third this? Except for Manhattan Project I mostly enjoyed many of the episodes of Season 2. Season 3, ...not so much. I couldn' get past the first half, and Season 4 I haven't watched at all.

It started when the henchmen began to get turned into generic villains, escalated with the over-use of nolstagia, and ended with Super Psychic Blast April. I like this show. But I don't what they are doing with this show. They have lost the game plan and they are sinking.

I think they might end it at Season 5, but if they do anything past that, they need to get back to it's roots. Space aliens, time travel and nostalgia are great in small doses, but anything more then that and you risk making the main story look insignificant next to these world shattering events, and having constantly to up the ante so you don't lose the 'wow' factor. While that might be nice to some, after a while I just want to see good ol' Ninja Turtles vs. Foot Clan, not the Earth blowing up just to shock up the slowly sagging ratings and try to revive the interest of some bored youngsters.
'

'Sacly!
Might have been better if there wouldn't have been ANY additional mutants (never mind Kraang...) in season 1, just a series of well-written episodes of the Turtles fighting foot in back alleys, warehouses, wharfs, sewers.
Even Shredder should have been nothing more than a shadowy menace in the background, more felt than seen.

ToTheNines

05-03-2016, 08:03 AM

That sounds boring as ****.

NinjaPug

05-03-2016, 10:28 AM

Seriously. 26 episodes of only that would've been pretty terrible.

CyberCubed

05-03-2016, 12:21 PM

Since the beginning of next season sounds mystical watch people complain that Dracula, and probably demons, dragons, and other creatures start showing up.

Andrew NDB

05-03-2016, 01:14 PM

'Sacly!
Might have been better if there wouldn't have been ANY additional mutants (never mind Kraang...) in season 1, just a series of well-written episodes of the Turtles fighting foot in back alleys, warehouses, wharfs, sewers.
Even Shredder should have been nothing more than a shadowy menace in the background, more felt than seen.

Now that you mention it, they did blow their wad rather early. Season 1, and virtually "everybody" was in it.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

05-03-2016, 01:47 PM

Since the beginning of next season sounds mystical watch people complain that Dracula, and probably demons, dragons, and other creatures start showing up.

Are you talking about complanings over "way too many weired characters" or Evangelicals compaining over stuff like demons or maybe Japanese deities (like the Archie comics).

MrTMNT2012

05-03-2016, 02:03 PM

Phony? What does that even mean? All the episodes have plots, stories, characters, humor. It also has similar storylines to all previous TMNT incarnations. The CG is good for a TV show budget as well.

It's true. The show has everything you mentioned except good writing, after Season 1. Because Season 1 actually had veteran writers.

Also, Brandon Auman. 2 reasons why no one watches this series anymore.

ToTheNines

05-03-2016, 02:22 PM

Now that you mention it, they did blow their wad rather early. Season 1, and virtually "everybody" was in it.

I mean, they saved Casey, Renet/Savanti, Bebop/Rocksteady, Fugitoid/Triceratons, The Mutanimals, and Bishop for later seasons.

CyberCubed

05-03-2016, 04:21 PM

It's true. The show has everything you mentioned except good writing, after Season 1. Because Season 1 actually had veteran writers.

That makes no difference. You're acting like all the writers aren't professionals who graduated College and have writing skills and work in the industry. They didn't hire people off of fanfiction.net.

Also, Brandon Auman. 2 reasons why no one watches this series anymore.

Aside from some weird scenes, I don't find his episodes too bad.

plastroncafe

05-03-2016, 04:28 PM

That makes no difference. You're acting like all the writers aren't professionals who graduated College and have writing skills and work in the industry. They didn't hire people off of fanfiction.net.

Now if they'd hire people from A03, that'd be a different story.
(and quite possibly a better written, more genre savvy one)

Technogeek29

05-03-2016, 04:43 PM

Now that you mention it, they did blow their wad rather early. Season 1, and virtually "everybody" was in it.

It did didn't it? It could have done really well to spread a lot of the season 1 characters throughout the show. I honestly could've waited until season 2 or the end of season 1 for Leatherhead. Especially Rat King who would've been awesome to bring back during a season 3 episode with his ghost tormenting Splinter like one issue from Mirage. The number slips my mind at the moment.

CyberCubed

05-03-2016, 06:55 PM

It did didn't it? It could have done really well to spread a lot of the season 1 characters throughout the show. I honestly could've waited until season 2 or the end of season 1 for Leatherhead. Especially Rat King who would've been awesome to bring back during a season 3 episode with his ghost tormenting Splinter like one issue from Mirage. The number slips my mind at the moment.

The TMNT universe has hundreds of characters. They already held back popular characters.

Bebop/Rocksteady didn't even get mutations till Season 3! The Triceratons/Fugitoid were saved for Season 4. Renet/Savanti appeared in Season 3. Hun and Bishop didn't appear till Season 3. Armaggon, Lord Dregg, etc.

I have no idea why people think they introduced everyone in Season 1.

ToTheNines

05-03-2016, 08:25 PM

That makes no difference. You're acting like all the writers aren't professionals who graduated College and have writing skills and work in the industry. They didn't hire people off of fanfiction.net

Bro, off the top of my head I can name you ten hack writes and ten hack directors who I know have college degrees. Just because you're in her industry doesn't mean you don't stink ln ice.

Ninturtle

05-03-2016, 09:27 PM

It's true. The show has everything you mentioned except good writing, after Season 1. Because Season 1 actually had veteran writers.

Also, Brandon Auman. 2 reasons why no one watches this series anymore.

Brandon Aumon is pretty bad, aside from his ****** writing , I hate how he can't take criticism for ****.

ToTheNines

05-03-2016, 09:36 PM

snake

05-03-2016, 09:45 PM

Now if they'd hire people from A03, that'd be a different story.
(and quite possibly a better written, more genre savvy one)

I got that joke

Just wanted to say that

Metalwolf

05-03-2016, 10:03 PM

That sounds boring as ****.

Seriously. 26 episodes of only that would've been pretty terrible.And repeating stuff from before isn't? At least being in the city for a while forces them to explore it first rather then moving onto the big stuff right away. Plus they haven't even explored a tenth of what's in that city. Did you know there is a giant park and a big ass zoo smack dab in the center of the city? And that New York is pretty much a port? It doesn't mean I have no interest in seeing space aliens or anything else fantastical for that manner, but they barely established this city before they started pulling out the big guns and trying to go bigger and badder each time. Plus they have too much of a 'checklist' of people and places they are adhereing to, not every iteration needs a visit to North Hampton nor does it need a Bebop and Rocksteady. They can go other places, and Shredder can have other henchmen. I thought this show was going to do it, but they adhered to status quo and did what others have done before, not daring to make up their own stuff or at least fleshing out characters they did have.

'Sacly!
Might have been better if there wouldn't have been ANY additional mutants (never mind Kraang...) in season 1, just a series of well-written episodes of the Turtles fighting foot in back alleys, warehouses, wharfs, sewers.
Even Shredder should have been nothing more than a shadowy menace in the background, more felt than seen.

Now that you mention it, they did blow their wad rather early. Season 1, and virtually "everybody" was in it.
And that's what I mean. They wouldn't let stuff develop enough before they went to the stuff they did, and now it doesn't feel as great because everything feels rushed and half of the development doesn't stick. They had a quota of toys to shill and it's showing. It's why I wished they weren't afraid to let the story sell the toys, because if you like a character you'll buy the toy, and the story will make you care enough to keep tuning in.

But they did what they did, and it's they bed they're going to be lying in.

Refractive Reflections

05-04-2016, 03:14 AM

One question that may need to be asked is (and I think it might have been mentioned before), is that if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy? ...Because that's how most children are viewing the show, since they have no comprehension (at least the emotional attachment) of the magnitude of TMNT's past legacy. For them, it's completely new, and this show will probably set the initial tone of how they perceive TMNT until they become aware of another depiction. (Similarly to how one generation perceived the OT, and how the next generation after perceived the 2K3 series.) ...And if the kids disliked Bay's version of TMNT, it would persuade kids to be drawn further away from the TMNT franchise itself.

...Or does the series need to constantly remind its audience explicitly (i.e. nostalgic references, very similar plots) and implicitly (few developed original characters/plots) of its association with past TMNT milestones? So that whichever direction the series takes, it can be subtly accepted under the "canopy of TMNT familiar elements", despite the targeted audience of children not having a clue nor especially any emotional attachment to these elements/references as adults may have. Although the series may be following the template of TMNT for a series, what heavily obscures that template, is rather the hodgepodge of irregularly assembled elements that appears to be "TMNT familiar", yet it's own overall consistency in terms of the show's self-sufficiency seems... dissonant at best.

Vegita-San

05-04-2016, 08:53 AM

One question that may need to be asked is (and I think it might have been mentioned before), is that if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy? ...Because that's how most children are viewing the show, since they have no comprehension (at least the emotional attachment) of the magnitude of TMNT's past legacy. For them, it's completely new, and this show will probably set the initial tone of how they perceive TMNT until they become aware of another depiction. (Similarly to how one generation perceived the OT, and how the next generation after perceived the 2K3 series.) ...And if the kids disliked Bay's version of TMNT, it would persuade kids to be drawn further away from the TMNT franchise itself.

It's an interesting question.

I came aboard the series with the OS. I think the first episode I saw was the Big Break In.

I didn't know about the comics until 1993. and it took a long while to get into them because the tone was so different. although in my case, it didn't distance me away from the original series. i wanted more of both.

My question would be..
I wonder if all these new kids experiencing tmnt for the first time saw bays version, realized it for the crap it was, and then they started questioning their like for the new series..

Did the ratings start to drop after bay turtles came out? or before?

For me, the series isn't strongly show run enough. it seems like things are planned half haphazardly, and other things are forgotten. and then you have weird things like attack of the mega shredder thrown in for no good measure.

but, that may work with kids of today, who are used to constantly changing social media platforms and never staying on one thing for more than 10 minutes till the next big thing comes along.

it may seem like a convoluted, disorganized series to me.....but that may not matter to kids of today.

It could also be because kids phase out of things quicker than they did in the 90s. things run their course after 3 seasons.

CyberCubed

05-04-2016, 12:35 PM

NOTHING is being forgotten. You people keep claiming nonsense when the show is still running. Its called recurring plotlines.

MrTMNT2012

05-04-2016, 12:38 PM

Auman's plots often scream "video game script". And he never let's the narrative breathe.

In places where the story would really benefit from a time jump or a montage, he loves to just have the characters run outta one crazy scenario to the next, no matter how silly or unnatural it is.

This.

I still genuinely think TMNT 2012's First Season can go toe-to-toe with the likes of Avatar and Korra as the Cartoon Greats.

Just rewatched the whole thing and the quality still stands. In fact it's even better now that we've seen how bad the show's become.

CyberCubed

05-04-2016, 12:39 PM

Just rewatched the whole thing and the quality still stands. In fact it's even better now that we've seen how bad the show's become.

There's no real difference aside from the freshness of everything and the characters.

ABrown

05-04-2016, 12:46 PM

Gunstar_Red

05-04-2016, 01:50 PM

if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy?

I can say with certainty that it wouldn't have made it past the 1st or 2nd season and that's not because of the concept. It's because action cartoons are not popular now. Apart from shows about previously existing superhero properties, it's very rare to find the 'American Dragon: Jake Long' and 'Megas XLR's in this generation. It's all about situational, absurdism, and/or slice of life humor that may or may not have continuity.

The Nick Turtles owes a lot to having a previous legacy.

Wolfie65

05-05-2016, 06:57 AM

There's a video-gamey (and often animé) look to many things these days.
Cartoons, movies, TV shows, toys, wargames miniatures...the list goes on.
Sometimes appropriately so, mostly not.

dragonside

05-05-2016, 07:08 PM

hmmmmm well sounds like they should just put the nick toon on netflix or other streaming sites (nothing yet in canada), i'm not even sure if its in the States.

I guess being on itunes is goodish. But I am keeping up with the dvd releases. I cut the cable a long time ago, and I'm expecting that a lot of people just cut the cord systematically over the last four years. So TMNT's gotta join the fray, instead of selling individual episodes on itunes.

If anything, TMNT always felt like an episodic kind of tale, with small references, slice of life and although they do great things, its still, back to the same life at the end of the day.

While Avatar had a very in-depth story with a lot of world building, destiny, high level themes (plus all the character quirks).

TMNT = multiple narratives, meant to be continuously reinvented, with long standing characters going on adventures (there may be some growth, but still kind of limited, their growth is what you'd expect)

Avatar = single narrative, telling one grand story with continuously growing characters (from start to finish, from life to death).

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

05-06-2016, 10:29 AM

Electric

05-15-2016, 10:12 AM

As someone who defended the show unwaveringly during the first two seasons, I'll cast in my two cents.

The show has just gone downhill. To me, that's what it is. Watching an episode from this season, and one from the first or second, it's like watching a completely different style of show.
Episodes during the first season or two managed that action/comedy/drama aspect really well, but each of their episodes had a very direct focus. I always look to episodes like New Girl in Town or the Gauntlet.
Now, each episode is just literally all over the place. No form of drama or comedy lasts for more than 10 seconds, and every episode plots feels like they just try to jam so much in that they gloss over everything. I don't even get excited to watch new episodes anymore...

Now, I honestly believe that part of the issue may be this whole space arc. Think about it, almost every new episode they visited a new planet and met new characters, which meant that the show had to spend time focusing on each of them. Only after that could they actually continue the plot, which maybe why everything was just glossed over.
I'm hopeful that now they're back in New York, this show can go back to its normal, even paced balance it use to manage just fine. Human vs mutants sounds like a decent plot theme, and hopefully they can bring back some of the drama and tragedy of events surrounding Karai and the foot

CyberCubed

05-15-2016, 12:25 PM

The show has kept a consistent quality throughout every season. There are a few dud fillers here and there every so often, but most of the episodes have been consistently good.

Karai Samurai

06-10-2016, 10:30 PM

It's been a while since I've been on here.

Honestly, I don't even know when TMNT airs anymore. I started watching this show when I was very sick and stuck in bed four years ago. Now, between school, work and life, I don't have time to watch. It's still on my dvr and I watch it...whenever. TMNT is still a good show, but not as engaging as it once was.

Coola Yagami

06-11-2016, 04:35 AM

The TMNT universe has hundreds of characters. They already held back popular characters.

Bebop/Rocksteady didn't even get mutations till Season 3! The Triceratons/Fugitoid were saved for Season 4. Renet/Savanti appeared in Season 3. Hun and Bishop didn't appear till Season 3. Armaggon, Lord Dregg, etc.

I have no idea why people think they introduced everyone in Season 1.

Mostly because all those characters didn't really need to return. Season 1 did good with its new characters and could have taken more time to develop them more. Now that I think about it... season 1 was all fresh and new. A bold new direction we never seen before. The later seasons started with adapting mirage arcs and trying to bring back every tmnt character ever made. And dragging out Northampton and outer space.

I'm just bored as hell other than the 80s crossover. The space arc just feels like filler to me until they get back to Earth and see if they revive splinter or not and get back to the shredder and karai storyline. Someone wake me when that happens.