Avatar - James Cameron says 4 sequels on the way.

[NinjaPug]

Seems like every time Cameron talks about this he adds another movie to it. I'm fascinated by anything Cameron does from a technological standpoint especially when he puts this much time into developing it.

New movies expected to come December 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023. New logo below.

http://images.hitfix.com/assets/10414/Official_AVATAR_logo.jpg

http://deadline.com/2016/04/james-cameron-gives-update-on-avatar-sequels-expanding-to-four-sequels-slams-screening-room-gets-cheers-from-exhibs-cinemacon-1201737814/

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Did the original Avatar film leave any cultural impact whatsoever?

I've never seen it and I only ever heard people praise it for its 3D effects.

[CyberCubed]

I won't see any of them.

[shuriken]

^^ It's a decent movie. Kinda reminds me of Fern-gully a bit. But I don't know if anyone is legitimately excited for this other than Cameron himself.

[drgon78]

Basically "Dances with Wolves" set on another planet with smurf/thundercats/Native American type aliens. The effects were good but otherwise OK.

[turtlefanforever]

i thought it was horrible. I could sit here and nit pick it for a while but i don't wanna turn this thread into a big argument, i'll keep it simple and say i didn't like it.

Cool for anyone that does. It got some major praise. I don't really think they'll make 4 sequels though. Eventually it's not gonna be a box office success. I don't doubt a trilogy but after a 3rd movie in the franchise i don't really see where it could be or where the interest would be.

[IndigoErth]

Four? o.O

Wonder if the fact that Disney is adding an area for it to their theme park has much to do with it.

[ToTheNines]

Jakesullyfan will be happy.

[JakeSully]

Basically "Dances with Wolves" set on another planet with smurf/thundercats/Native American type aliens. The effects were good but otherwise OK.

What's with DWW? is it the only white man go native story people know cause it won awards?

Ever heard of Man Called Horse, Last of the Mohicans, Dune, Lawrence of Arabia, Fort Apache, Broken Arrow 1950 with Jimmy Stewart etc.? other stories like that, it's nothing new you know and has been used many times in various forms over the years.

[Spike Spiegel]

I have watched the first two Terminator films and Aliens many, many times and consider myself something of a fan of Cameron's work...but I've only been able to bother watching the first Avatar movie once in its entirety.

Once you get beyond the FX, it's just really dull.

[The Deadman]

Release Dates Announced for Next Four Avatar Movies (http://411mania.com/movies/release-dates-announced-for-next-four-avatar-movies/)

[sdp]

Avatar hadn't been on my radar until people kept talking about it and talking about it so when it released I was curious and ended up watching it like a month later. I never understood what was so "magical" about the 3D effects but hey it was a nice movie, nothing amazing though.

A few years later or so I remember having arguments online about how it wasn't a memorable movie and that no one would be interested in the franchise anymore when Cameron kept talking about the movie and people saying I was incorrect.

Since then the general consensus is now what I used to think that it wasn't something memorable. Funnily enough my thoughts have also changed, I really want to go back to Pandora now, I don't remember the film but it could definitely tell a few more stories and we haven't really been to an alien world since then like we did with Avatar.

[Andrew NDB]

Release Dates Announced for Next Four Avatar Movies (http://411mania.com/movies/release-dates-announced-for-next-four-avatar-movies/)

Until they're delayed and pushed back again. Meaningless.

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/8-years-after-the-original-the-avatar-sequels-have-finally-begun-production-on-a-dollar1-billion-budget/ar-AAsuse0?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=UP97DHP

Started production yesterday. 1 billion dollar budget, which actually seems small for 4 movies (Avengers 3 and 4, shot together, are 1 billion collectively).

[sdp]

I'm curious. I think Cameron can make an awesome world, I criticized the first one since it was so overrated but now that it's so heavily ignored I think it's become underrated.


Now, we know what the sequel will be about:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/83/89/61/838961c0fa2152a5d3e8a522d4a985ad--fern-gully-rainforests.jpg

but the other 3 will have to be a surprise ;)

[Andrew NDB]

Jake and Neytiri have an adopted human son in Avatar 2.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/avatar-2-spider-jake-neytiris-adopted-human-son-exclusive-image/?fbclid=IwAR31o18sQgNXb0Q_2hj-t3-UabIz4p2ccgand86qlgSejCHGMdfjUTdtmJQ

[Andrew NDB]

The title is Avatar: The Way of Water.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/first-avatar-sequel-titled-avatar-the-way-of-water/?fbclid=IwAR1aYsPap7P9T0smesTOqcK5ZEXqCwHeJYba1Q1s VP5w6xX0tHTpDuMc4II

[oldmanwinters]

The title is Avatar: The Way of Water.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/first-avatar-sequel-titled-avatar-the-way-of-water/?fbclid=IwAR1aYsPap7P9T0smesTOqcK5ZEXqCwHeJYba1Q1s VP5w6xX0tHTpDuMc4II

Guess that just leaves Earth, Wind, and Fire for the other sequel subtitles?

[neatoman]

And in part six, the fire nation attacks!

[Leo656]

Guess that just leaves Earth, Wind, and Fire for the other sequel subtitles?

You forgot "Heart". :trazz:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/583/634/191.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

Guess that just leaves Earth, Wind, and Fire for the other sequel subtitles?

Something tells me Cameron is going to want to linger on the water aspect.

[Xav]

Does anyone still care about this series at this point?

[sdp]

I hope 3D movies and 4D movies make a big comeback with this. I love watching 3D movies in VR and 4D is the best experience in theaters you can get.

[Andrew NDB]

Does anyone still care about this series at this point?

Like, right this second? No, not really. But if I were to rewatch it I'd probably get re-stoked up. Or if a trailer dropped right now.

[Andrew NDB]

The trailer for part 2:

NZrX_ES93JA

[Andrew NDB]

How Steven Lang's character comes back:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/quaritchs-avatar-sequel-return-explained/

[Andrew NDB]

Trailer #2:

d9MyW72ELq0

I still don't have a strong idea of what this is even about. They're suddenly hanging out in the water a lot because James Cameron loves water, some stuff burns, some kind of human carrier sinks in the ocean and maybe -- maybe -- there's some kind of Na'vi vs. Na'vi struggle? I'm not sure if this is really going to draw in the uninitiated.

Also, it's set 10 years later... but Sigourney Weaver is playing Jake and Neytiri's "adopted teenage daughter"? And it turns out Quaritch is back because his memories were transferred to a Na'vi avatar? Whuh?

[IMJ]

I just can't see this being interesting. The only thing the I.P. really has going for it were 99% photo real special effects on a believable alien world. And those were incredible.

But the premise isn't really captivating on it's own.
The aliens themselves aren't really captivating as protagonists.
From the trailer this one looks even more like a cartoon than a movie on an alien world

If it does well that's great, but that's not saying much. The first Avatar is the biggest movie of all-time and yet nobody really cares about it. I am surprised that Sam Worthington is back. He seemed like he was going to have a really solid career for a few years there, but I've only seen him in two movies in years now - that Schwarzenegger one which was decent and then that Netflix "alien adaptation" flick, whatever that was called.

[Leo656]

It's the most forgettable movie to ever gross a billion dollars. It made all the money in the world, everyone bought it on Blu-ray, and yet nobody ever watches it, nobody ever talks about it... and nobody actually WANTS these movies.

Avatar wasn't even a f*cking "movie", it was an elaborate push to make people buy HDTVs and Blu-ray players. THAT is what it was.

The sequels will do well because by the time the hype train gets done rolling, people will be convinced they've ACTUALLY been "waiting over a decade for this" instead of what they've actually been doing... making jokes about how nobody cares anymore. But we see how fast people flip that script after they get told enough times, "YOU WANT THIS! YOU'RE EXCITED FOR THIS!"

But they don't, and they're not. Nobody cares about these f*cking movies, so it's gonna be really f*cking annoying when they come out and make a sh*tload of money anyway. All hype, no soul. If you don't LOVE CGI, there's nothing to f*cking see or care about with this. And I loathe CGI. So you can imagine how many f*cks I give about Avatar. Like it was "fine" but nothing about it ever made me wanna watch it again.

[Coola Yagami]

I literally did not even remember Avatar was a thing until they started making all the news about End Game getting close to beating it, and then actually beating it. Like I didn't even know it made that much in the box office. Every time I hear Avatar I legit think of Korra, not these blue people from a forgotten old movie that pretty much came and went.

[IMJ]

It's the most forgettable movie to ever gross a billion dollars. It made all the money in the world, everyone bought it on Blu-ray, and yet nobody ever watches it, nobody ever talks about it... and nobody actually WANTS these movies.

Avatar wasn't even a f*cking "movie", it was an elaborate push to make people buy HDTVs and Blu-ray players. THAT is what it was.

The sequels will do well because by the time the hype train gets done rolling, people will be convinced they've ACTUALLY been "waiting over a decade for this" instead of what they've actually been doing... making jokes about how nobody cares anymore. But we see how fast people flip that script after they get told enough times, "YOU WANT THIS! YOU'RE EXCITED FOR THIS!"

But they don't, and they're not. Nobody cares about these f*cking movies, so it's gonna be really f*cking annoying when they come out and make a sh*tload of money anyway. All hype, no soul. If you don't LOVE CGI, there's nothing to f*cking see or care about with this. And I loathe CGI. So you can imagine how many f*cks I give about Avatar. Like it was "fine" but nothing about it ever made me wanna watch it again.

This reflects all of my thoughts about Avatar, but the level of vitriol you poured into this took it over the top. Leo for the win.
Now I want to see you do a YouTube toy video on the new Avatar toys which are actually pretty cool but I won't buy because this I.P. sucks.

[Leo656]

I was up for about 30 hours when I wrote that so I was probably more angry about it than I needed to be. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

I hate to say it, guys, but I think this a rare case of me saying I think you guys will be wrong and it'll be well loved. People may have forgotten about Avatar but it'll come back to them quick.

[Leo656]

I alluded to that. It will be successful and people will be excited about it for a while.

But that's hype. The same hype that tricks people into thinking the MCU stuff is so life-changing. By the time you get to the theater it's a MUST-SEE EVENT because that's what everyone tells you and so your brain starts to believe it for a bit.

That doesn't and won't erase the fact that for a whole decade not a single person not named "James Cameron" cared.

[Andrew NDB]

I alluded to that. It will be successful and people will be excited about it for a while.

But that's hype. The same hype that tricks people into thinking the MCU stuff is so life-changing. By the time you get to the theater it's a MUST-SEE EVENT because that's what everyone tells you and so your brain starts to believe it for a bit.

That doesn't and won't erase the fact that for a whole decade not a single person not named "James Cameron" cared.

The original did serve as an excellent prelude to... a thing we should have gotten along time ago. Obviously this is true. The difference now is that the "Excited about it for while" piece isn't relevant in this particular situation since we'll be getting a brand new Avatar movie every 2 years. For like, quite a few years, apparently. The planet won't be allowed to forget about it. Like, by the time the 3rd movie comes out, theaters will already be re-releasing Avatar 2 a few months beforehand and so on.

[Leo656]

Be cool if anyone actually asked for those movies and it wasn't 100% Cameron whacking off and people lining up with their mouths open because it's Cameron.

Sales of 4K TVs and disc players have been a little flat lately, and now This; I'm sure that's just a coincidence of timing like last time, though.

I really, really cannot stress enough how little I give a sh*t about any and all "Lookit wut we did wit compooters!" movies.

[Andrew NDB]

Be cool if anyone actually asked for those movies and it wasn't 100% Cameron whacking off and people lining up with their mouths open because it's Cameron.

Sales of 4K TVs and disc players have been a little flat lately, and now This; I'm sure that's just a coincidence of timing like last time, though.

I really, really cannot stress enough how little I give a sh*t about any and all "Lookit wut we did wit compooters!" movies.

Oh no, the sales of 4K TVs are through the roof. Largely because this is the minimum of the only kind of TV you can even buy anymore because this is the minimum of what resolution is being transmitted in 2022. And those prices have come way down. Now we're getting 8K TVs yet there isn't any actual 8K media to justify it, but they auto-upscale for little to no discernible reason.

Your argument should have been about 3D TVs and 3D blu-ray players, the ones that came out not long after Avatar 1. Then you'd have a point. I'm sure there are a lot of people very angry with the 3D HD and 3D 4K TVs they bought that came with expensive proprietary 3D glasses that were almost immediately unsupported after a couple of years. Not unlike the people on board the HD-DVD train vs. the Blu-Ray train a few years before that.

[TigerClaw]

Oh no, the sales of 4K TVs are through the roof. Largely because this is the minimum of the only kind of TV you can even buy anymore because this is the minimum of what resolution is being transmitted in 2022. And those prices have come way down. Now we're getting 8K TVs yet there isn't any actual 8K media to justify it, but they auto-upscale for little to no discernible reason.

Your argument should have been about 3D TVs and 3D blu-ray players, the ones that came out not long after Avatar 1. Then you'd have a point. I'm sure there are a lot of people very angry with the 3D HD and 3D 4K TVs they bought that came with expensive proprietary 3D glasses that were almost immediately unsupported after a couple of years. Not unlike the people on board the HD-DVD train vs. the Blu-Ray train a few years before that.
Also we got Black Friday in less then 3 weeks, And 4K TVs will become cheaper.

[Andrew NDB]

Final trailer.

o5F8MOz_IDw

I still have no idea what the movie is about. These trailers say nothing.

[ChosenOne]

I wonder, has anyone shown James Cameron the Horizon games?

[IMJ]

Final trailer.

o5F8MOz_IDw

I still have no idea what the movie is about. These trailers say nothing.

It will be about the alien-fight against colonialism, and the oppression of the "people of nature".

So basically this should be of great interest to most millennials and every Gen-Y'er on Earth because they care about that stuff. Even though they won't give their land to an American-Indian or let a homeless person live with them for free.

[Sumac]

I wonder, has anyone shown James Cameron the Horizon games?
I've better question: has Horizon devs watched Avatar?

[Andrew NDB]

It will be about the alien-fight against colonialism, and the oppression of the "people of nature".

So basically this should be of great interest to most millennials and every Gen-Y'er on Earth because they care about that stuff. Even though they won't give their land to an American-Indian or let a homeless person live with them for free.

You think? Surely they won't milk 5 movies out of Na'vi vs. human incursions?

If thats what's happening in this movie the trailers are going out of their way not to show that.

[Sumac]

I too wonder how you can make more out of it fairly plain and boring story like OG Avatar, but we'll see. I trust Cameron knows what he is doing.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Great. More movies about the Noble Savage having weird ponytail sex.

[Andrew NDB]

I too wonder how you can make more out of it fairly plain and boring story like OG Avatar, but we'll see. I trust Cameron knows what he is doing.

It's going to be huge. Maybe not OG Avatar big but true escapism movies are what's trending these days. This is the perfect time for a return to Pandora.

[Coola Yagami]

It's going to be huge. Maybe not OG Avatar big but true escapism movies are what's trending these days. This is the perfect time for a return to Pandora.

True escapism? I though this was the era of political messaging and lectures in movies?

[Andrew NDB]

True escapism? I though this was the era of political messaging and lectures in movies?

No, those all fail.

[Sumac]

It's going to be huge. Maybe not OG Avatar big but true escapism movies are what's trending these days. This is the perfect time for a return to Pandora.
Eh, I am not so sure about it.

Avatar coasted due to the amazing CGI, but it was 2009. Nowadays after decade of good to amazing CGI in MCU and the like, could it still really WOW people?

I would say, it could had more chances to succeed, if it had memorable characters and plot and existed outside of a movie, via TV series, games, books, e.t.c. But it wasn't, so I am not sure what and how it should conquer eyes and hearts of people.

[DarkFell]

The question that I have is, if the tribes on Pandora thrive within the planet's lush jungles, then why are they heading out towards the depths below Pandora's oceans? :-?

[Andrew NDB]

The question that I have is, if the tribes on Pandora thrive within the planet's lush jungles, then why are they heading out towards the depths below Pandora's oceans? :-?

Something drove them out, I guess? But by what? More humans land? We don't really see that in the trailers. And how does General Quarich or whatever inside a Na'vi body figure into things?

[IMJ]

James Cameron has a hobby-obsession with the ocean.

[DarkFell]

James Cameron has a hobby-obsession with the ocean.
You might be right. I think that he still holds The Abyss in high regard.

[IMJ]

You might be right. I think that he still holds The Abyss in high regard.

The Abyss.
Titanic.
Deepsea Challenge - the guy spent years developing a sub-marine to do his own ocean-deep documentary!
Avatar

He's just... intrigued by the ocean. And in many ways rightfully so, I suppose. :)

[Andrew NDB]

Oh jeeze... Cameron says testosterone is a toxin you have to purge from your body:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/11/30/avatar-the-way-of-water-director-james-cameron-claims-testosterone-is-a-toxin-that-you-have-to-slowly-work-out-of-your-system/

[IMJ]

Oh jeeze... Cameron says testosterone is a toxin you have to purge from your body:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/11/30/avatar-the-way-of-water-director-james-cameron-claims-testosterone-is-a-toxin-that-you-have-to-slowly-work-out-of-your-system/

I have always respected Cameron for his great movie and authentic and strong female leads without signaling about them. But I have no idea where he is coming from with that.

[Coola Yagami]

Oh jeeze... Cameron says testosterone is a toxin you have to purge from your body:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/11/30/avatar-the-way-of-water-director-james-cameron-claims-testosterone-is-a-toxin-that-you-have-to-slowly-work-out-of-your-system/

Isn't that what all the triple soy lattes are for?

[DarkFell]

A triple soy latte sounds like it's gross and I'm a regular coffee drinker.

Anyhoo, if James typed about testosterone being toxic, then he needs to stay away from Twitter and focus on his movie ideas.

[Warhorse]

Oh jeeze... Cameron says testosterone is a toxin you have to purge from your body:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/11/30/avatar-the-way-of-water-director-james-cameron-claims-testosterone-is-a-toxin-that-you-have-to-slowly-work-out-of-your-system/

It's all people are talking about now. And this will probably hurt the BO now. Makes me wonder if Cameron knew there was going to be no market for this movie so made that statement so he can blame it on toxic masculinity refused to see his movie because of his comments?

[IMJ]

It's all people are talking about now. And this will probably hurt the BO now. Makes me wonder if Cameron knew there was going to be no market for this movie so made that statement so he can blame it on toxic masculinity refused to see his movie because of his comments?

Yeah that's very possible. Either that or he is virtue-signaling to the woke crowd hoping they turn out to the movie. But you know - to an extent he's right. Testosterone-attitudes can lead to harmful societies.

The problem today though is that these people see "dude-bros" all around them when in fact they barely exist. The life-angry are fighting a social-nuclear war against a global population of 1,000 college jocks and a world of witch-hunted enemies.

It's like the Joker in TDK during the Bruce Wayne fudnraiser scene. But instead of crashing the party and asking every party goer about "Batman", he's instead asking "are you a dudebro? Huh? How about you, are you a dudebro? Where are the dudebros?"

[Coola Yagami]

The only thing I care about this movie is just hearing how it'll do at the box office. Not only must it top the first one but End Game too.

[IMJ]

The only thing I care about this movie is just hearing how it'll do at the box office. Not only must it top the first one but End Game too.

Yeah me too.
But you know, James Cameron's best trick worked for the first flick - re-release it as if that is some kind of "event" to draw people back and increase that box office number.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Oh jeeze... Cameron says testosterone is a toxin you have to purge from your body:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/11/30/avatar-the-way-of-water-director-james-cameron-claims-testosterone-is-a-toxin-that-you-have-to-slowly-work-out-of-your-system/

They got him too. I should’ve known after that awful movie “Dark Fate” came out.

[Andrew NDB]

Nobody has seen it yet? Going tomorrow.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I haven't seen it yet but it was very slow yesterday. I figured it wouldn't be all that busy but not slower than I thought. They might want to reconsider doing a third one so soon.

[Andrew NDB]

I haven't seen it yet but it was very slow yesterday. I figured it wouldn't be all that busy but not slower than I thought. They might want to reconsider doing a third one so soon.

I'm not sure if these two things are connected?

[neatoman]

I've seen it. Not sure it technically qualifies as a good movie, given how much stupid there is in the plot, but the first one was kinda stupid too so if that didn't bother you then I doubt it will here. I guess the main problem (when it comes to what the first one didn't have) is leaving a bunch of stuff open to be explored in further sequels, which is annoying because it's not like this movie has a super complex plot for it's runtime, it's mostly just Jake's hiding with the water tribe while clones of the army guys hunt them down.

[Andrew NDB]

it's mostly just Jake's hiding with the water tribe while clones of the army guys hunt them down.

Ehh... what?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm not sure if these two things are connected?

Sorry, I work at the movie theaters and my job was expecting Avatar to be busy but there weren't a lot of people coming to see it.

[neatoman]

Ehh... what?

Yeah, more or less. The bad guys from the last movie came back as clones and started hunting down Jake, so Jake went into hiding and then the clones had to track him down. There is admittedly a lot details about Jake's family needing to learn how to survive in the archipelago and fitting in with the tribe living, as well as some details regarding alien whaling, but in terms of the core plot it's really mostly about the clones trying to find Jake.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, more or less. The bad guys from the last movie came back as clones and started hunting down Jake, so Jake went into hiding and then the clones had to track him down. There is admittedly a lot details about Jake's family needing to learn how to survive in the archipelago and fitting in with the tribe living, as well as some details regarding alien whaling, but in terms of the core plot it's really mostly about the clones trying to find Jake.

Saw it. OK, I get what you guys mean now. In my head I was struggling to imagine this, and was just thinking like Quaritch comes back and starts resurrecting the others and this is like an isolated uprising. No, it's the military full-on coming back to Pandora in full force and bringing them back from flashed memories.

Well, I really enjoyed it. A lot of it was predictable and some of it wasn't but it was always engaging and there hasn't been a better use of 3D since the 2009 first movie -- and by far. Arrows and water coming to the screen made me jump a few times. If anything, it feels both bigger than the first movie but also smaller, largely in that it is a big buildup to what basically amounts to a minor skirmish. The new characters did grow on me by about the middle even though I couldn't tell you a lot of their names now without looking. And yeah, it's a little bit of a redo of the formula of the first movie in that it spends the first half and some change (after a lengthy opening sequence that's like Avatar 1.5) trying hard to make the audience fall in love with all the new alien animal life introduced so that when the bad guys make their move in the last act and start killing them you're naturally inclined to root for the destruction of them. It's less effective here than in the first but still pretty effective. Not a huge part for Neytiri except a lot of crying. One kickass sequence for her.

Currently it's at 78% with critics and 94% with audiences. I perused a lot of the reviews from "official" outlets. From what I can sniff, with the "official" outlets and certain people, Cameron repeating his "man bad/nature good" even going as far as literally taking a stand in the movie on anti-whaling and in great detail, that wasn't enough. There isn't enough woke meat on the bones for them of "Current" movements. As in, any. So it isn't a useful movie for them and shame on Cameron for not having at least one of Jake Sully's kids being trans or something (though who knows what the future will bring! maybe this is the warmup round and there's quite a few kids there).

[IMJ]

They might want to reconsider doing a third one so soon.

Ironic, right? Considering how long the sequel took....

[Andrew NDB]

There is one thing I took umbrage with in the movie...

It's the Sigourney Weaver character. She's presented as an immaculate conception with Jedi powers and you can see it coming a mile away. At one point they actually give her jellyfish angel wings. Pretty cringey stuff. It reminds me of the powers they gave Milla Jovovich in the third Resident Evil movie.

Also,

https://www.tmz.com/2022/12/18/james-cameron-flips-off-middle-finger-autograph-seekers-avatar/?fbclid=IwAR1ioWo4SOtBVlItpquUANBYldwhXzJrlo8DIHYR 7S319s91wChcJazAjUg

[ProphetofGanja]

Well, I really enjoyed it. A lot of it was predictable and some of it wasn't but it was always engaging and there hasn't been a better use of 3D since the 2009 first movie -- and by far. Arrows and water coming to the screen made me jump a few times. If anything, it feels both bigger than the first movie but also smaller, largely in that it is a big buildup to what basically amounts to a minor skirmish. The new characters did grow on me by about the middle even though I couldn't tell you a lot of their names now without looking. And yeah, it's a little bit of a redo of the formula of the first movie in that it spends the first half and some change (after a lengthy opening sequence that's like Avatar 1.5) trying hard to make the audience fall in love with all the new alien animal life introduced so that when the bad guys make their move in the last act and start killing them you're naturally inclined to root for the destruction of them. It's less effective here than in the first but still pretty effective. Not a huge part for Neytiri except a lot of crying. One kickass sequence for her.



Andrew, my only question is this:

If I go see this on mushrooms how enraptured will I be by the visuals, on a scale of 1 to 10? :lol:

https://media.tenor.com/4NKbOEKWSB8AAAAC/trip-homer.gif

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew, my only question is this:

If I go see this on mushrooms how enraptured will I be by the visuals, on a scale of 1 to 10? :lol:

https://media.tenor.com/4NKbOEKWSB8AAAAC/trip-homer.gif

If you see it in 3D? 10 for sure.

[Cowabung-Gal]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11563229/White-mans-fantasy-Indigenous-groups-call-boycott-Avatar-2.html

Why am I not surprised? :roll:

[Sumac]

So we do have some blue cat-like humanoids on Earth!
Does it mean catgirls are real, after all?

Also, this tribe must've missed the mark, movie already made some money and no amount of boycott from nobodies, who just want to cash in on the popularity of the movie, will change that. They still will be poor and dumb.

[Andrew NDB]

It's up to 1.2 billion. Doing fine. Actually it's earning money faster than the original. By this point in time having been out, Avatar 1 had been doing less strong.

[Andrew NDB]

So Avatar 3 really will be titled something like "The Way of Fire."

https://www.darkhorizons.com/avatar-3-to-have-ash-people-navi/

[neatoman]

Water. Fire. Dirt. Air.
Long ago, the four Na'vi sub-species lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Sky People attacked. Only the Toruk Makto, Master of the Pterodactyl thingies, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he just wasn't around. An indeterminate amount of years passed and we discovered the new Toruk Makto, an an Avatar name Jake Sully, and although his gun shooting skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe Jake Sully can save the world.

... I'm sorry but the decision to obviously go with the four elements thing in a franchise called Avatar... I know it's low hanging fruit, but I sure like to pick it.

[Andrew NDB]

Water. Fire. Dirt. Air.
Long ago, the four Na'vi sub-species lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Sky People attacked. Only the Toruk Makto, Master of the Pterodactyl thingies, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he just wasn't around. An indeterminate amount of years passed and we discovered the new Toruk Makto, an an Avatar name Jake Sully, and although his gun shooting skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe Jake Sully can save the world.

... I'm sorry but the decision to obviously go with the four elements thing in a franchise called Avatar... I know it's low hanging fruit, but I sure like to pick it.

I bet the fifth one is Earth, since Cameron said they're literally going to Earth in it. Dual meaning.

[neatoman]

... Since gravity on Pandora is 0.8 G, would the Na'vi rapidly develop back problems on Earth, considering how tall they are?

[Andrew NDB]

Probably. Spines would constrict over time. But it sounds like the movie is just a "big visit."

[Andrew NDB]

Has hit 1.5 billion. Has just beat out the entire gross of "Top Gun: Maverick":

https://www.darkhorizons.com/avatar-overtakes-maverick-at-box-office/

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/wcxy7Pz/Screenshot-20230114-154128-Chrome.jpg

Already at 1.8 billion and rising. And has earned more money than the first movie EVERY week its been out.

"Nobody wanted this movie." Clearly they did. And do.

[oldmanwinters]

I’m starting to think James Cameron grows pod people for the sole purpose of going out weekly to watch and rewatch his movies in theatres.

[Sumac]

Guess, Cameron still got it.
Good for him, hopefully his series will worth it.

[Andrew NDB]

Vin Diesel was lying a couple of years ago. He's not going to be in any of the movies.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/vin-diesel-will-not-be-in-avatar-3/

[ranger_scout]

It has now crossed the $2 billion mark at the worldwide box office.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/avatar-2-billion-global-box-office-1235498281/

[Andrew NDB]

It has now crossed the $2 billion mark at the worldwide box office.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/avatar-2-billion-global-box-office-1235498281/

I didn't think it could do quite that much. Shesus.

[Sumac]

I eat a crow, I guess, and take all my words back.
Guess people wanted to see a grandiose good spectacle, which has nothing to do with superheroes or tired properties of the past.
I am glad for Cameron, dude got it like no other.

[Andrew NDB]

It just beat out Avengers: Infinity War!

https://www.darkhorizons.com/avatar-sequel-overtakes-avengers-infinity-war/

[neatoman]

It just beat out Avengers: Infinity War!

https://www.darkhorizons.com/avatar-sequel-overtakes-avengers-infinity-war/

What are the odds of it beating the original?

[Andrew NDB]

What are the odds of it beating the original?

Surprisingly good! Avatar 2 is still outpacing the original every single week it's been out.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Avatar#tab=summary

Plus, if there's any shortfall all they have to do is re-release it around the time Avatar 3 comes out and soak in some more box office.

[Andrew NDB]

Avatar 3 trailer:

nb_fFj_0rq8

[sdp]

How was Avatar 2? I never watched it, I remember people saying it was good but I honestly had no idea it made 2 billion, no one seemed to talk about the movie after it came out, it just kinda disappeared into this void. Was it really THAT good?
Can the third movie really be that interesting? I enjoyed the first movie but I also didn't think it was the best thing ever made, it was just a decent scifi movie with cool 3D and effects at the time. The movie looks like it should've come out like 3 years after the original did.

[Andrew NDB]

How was Avatar 2? I never watched it, I remember people saying it was good but I honestly had no idea it made 2 billion, no one seemed to talk about the movie after it came out, it just kinda disappeared into this void. Was it really THAT good?

I wouldn't say good enough to be the third highest grossing moving in history, but it is.

I liked it well enough. The movie started out strong but sort of petered out into a low-stakes battle with a single stupid ship on the water. It felt like Cameron was sort of forcing some kind of climax to create a break so that movie #3 can begin.

Can the third movie really be that interesting?

Probably. I think given how little really "changed" in Avatar 2, I think with 3 and onward we'll start to see bigger stuff happen and Cameron starting to be willing to break his toys.

[Andrew NDB]

Ma1x7ikpid8

[Andrew NDB]

Should we place our bets where this part 3 is going to fall?

[CyberCubed]

I'll never understand why people like this film series so much. Or why he waited like 15 years to make a sequel when the iron was hot back in 2009.

If people wanted to roleplay alien worlds where their real life felt like a dream and they wanted to live as cat/monkey people hybrids in trees in a forest, there's plenty of other better series for similar things like that.

[IMJ]

I honestly can't decide if people actually do like this I.P. that much or if it's just "event hype". I've still only seen the first one, never bought it, didn't care when the sequel dropped.

I will say that I remember the VFX being practically photo-real in a way that you usually only see in the best of Ridley Scott material (usually better than Cameron). But I mean... that's it. The story was fine, but cliche as hell. I just don't care - tired of the anti-colonizer stories. It's like the lowest hanging fruit of all-time.

[sdp]

Well Part 2 came out to no hype at all as well and it still did 2 billion post pandemic silently with not many talking about it, so I wouldn't bet against this movie either.

Didn't they film 3-5 together? So they'd basically would still release the other 4/5 if 3 bombs? I'm sure Cameron would just put his own money to release them all if it failed. 4 has to be fairly advanced already and they wouldn't just pull the plug on a final part of the highest grossing movie of all time.

I'll wait until the final one is about to release before I rewatch the original and watch for the first time all the sequels.

[Andrew NDB]

Didn't they film 3-5 together? So they'd basically would still release the other 4/5 if 3 bombs?

Cameron sure made it sound like they did at the time. Now he's backpeddled and suggested the stuff he shot for 4 and 5 at the same time as 2 and 3 was just fairly minor stuff for "connective, flashback" type of material.

But 100%, Cameron would probably move heaven and earth to find a way to finish 4 and 5 regardless.

[frank_one]

I find it impressive that a man as creative as Cameron can dedicate so many of the last years of his life to a single project.

[Andrew NDB]

I find it impressive that a man as creative as Cameron can dedicate so many of the last years of his life to a single project.

To me it's sad. We got SO MUCH great output from Cameron in a relatively short amount of time (Terminator, T2, The Abyss, True Lies, Titanic)... and then after that nothing from him for 25, 26 years but Avatar. Titanic really changed him. If he hadn't have gotten obsessed with the ocean imagine all of the other great, unique movies we could have gotten from him.

And no, giving notes that were barely even listened to for Terminator: Woke Fart doesn't count, nor does just finding money for Robert Rodriguez in Alita.

[IMJ]

I think it's a little sad too to be honest.

He was a creative force and now he wants his legacy to basically be remembered as an anti-colonizer, somewhat boring tall blue native story.

I mean honestly who cares about these characters as opposed to the "event and hype"? I'm sure they exist but I don't know nor basically knowingly ever interact with a die-hard Avatar fan.

[neatoman]

This third movie was a bit... More of the same. Jake has to lead all the animal buddies in an attack on the human machinery on top of that big pterodactyl, literally the same thing as the climax from the first movie except now it's the ocean. I have basically the same problem with this climax as I did with the first one, I find it really questionable that these flesh and blood creatures can just ram into war machines and actually win. I know they're aliens and are not necessarily made of the same stuff, but it looks a lot like what I imagine rhinos and whales crushing tanks and battle cruisers by simply slamming into them would look like, I just don't buy it.

It's in the trailers, so I don't think I'm spoiling a lot but I might as well put the next part in spoiler tags anyway.

Yes, Spider is inherently a liability and is likely going to be the centre of the conflict going forward. At first he's a problem because of the whole thing about needing a mask but then he gains the ability to breathe Pandora atmosphere, at which point it turns to him being a problem because his new ability could potentially be studied and copied. The way it works doesn't get a full explanation because it gets interrupted but it is confirmed that he grew a symbiotic life-form, grown from one of those jellyfish-dandylion things, in his lungs that filter the air for him and doesn't seem to have any impact on his ability to breathe earth atmosphere. So because this is something that is "in him" but not "part of him", it does seem likely that something like that could be made artificially. So if he needs to gets captured or if they have enough data to work from is unclear, the point is that they're definitely going to attempt to recreate this ability in future movies.

Also, this too is implied by the trailers but might as well be in spoiler tags as well.
Yes, Quaritch's arc in this movie is basically a twisted mirror version of what was going on with Jake in the first one. It's actually a lot more interesting than Jake's arc because he's clearly a lot more loyal from the start and the ash tribe actually showing interest in human ways does have some interesting turns. Not sure if it elevates the movie but it's at least interesting to see this warped version of what happened in the first one.

[Andrew NDB]

But does it truly feel like the satisfying end of a trilogy, as Cameron is saying it was designed to be?

[neatoman]

But does it truly feel like the satisfying end of a trilogy, as Cameron is saying it was designed to be?

I should probably note here that I'm not all that impressed by anything other than the technological achievements with any of these movies, so I don't really like the plots of any of them. So note that when reading the following, if you liked the plots then you may very well have a different opinion.
I would say it's not all that satisfying as potential conclusion for the series in case there aren't any further sequels. It's not a worse movie than the previous ones but it's not like it does that much to be conclusive.

The whaling fleet is destroyed and the whales no longer cling to the pacifism that made them easy targets, so I guess that particular plot line is concluded unless one assumes the humans adopt better equipment and tactics for the future. Much of this movie feels more like an extension of the second one than it's own thing and like I said previously, the climax is basically a variation of the one from the first one. The humans are still out there and if the events of the first one was a mere setback, then clearly they will always just come back. We do find out, in part, that Kiri is a clone of Grace's Avatar, which was kind of obvious to begin with, but we still don't know why for sure. Quarritch "dies" again but in a far more ambiguous way this time, so he's obviously still intended to be alive, his arc clearly isn't finished and you'd have to be a complete fool to assume he's not coming back again.

And of course, the whole thing with Spider means the humans are just more keen on colonising Pandora than ever before, because now there is a chance they may not need to rely on machines to breathe or go through a terraforming process. The logical conclusion is that the series must continue until it's either impossible for humanity to colonise Pandora or if becomes possible to do so in a sustainable way.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw it.

Yeah, I didn't want to believe it would be a retread but beyond a lot of the character arcs it pretty much is. Structurally it follows the beats of Way of Water and when it doesn't then it is following the beats of the first movie. There's the big battle towards the middle that sends all the good guys into dissarray, there's the new animals who seem like a threat who unite to help the good guys in the end, will Quaritch have a face turn or won't he (they still don't give an answer), there's prayers to Eiwah that get answered at the end and it all ends up on ANOTHER burning sea-ship like the end of the last one. Same exact model and all.

The big new ingredient is the fire clan people. That's like the only new thing here. And nobody dies except the pregnant Kate Winslet character. I thought we were at least going to get a grand fight with Neytiri vs. the crazy fire clan lady like they were clearly setting up but it never happens. No, if Avatar ends with this movie it isn't a remotely satisfying ending because nothing changes. The military is still there and are sure to be enraged into retaliation even further, the fire clan will surely come back for revenge after this... nothing at all is "wrapped up."

[ZariusTwo]

Saw it.

Yeah, I didn't want to believe it would be a retread but beyond a lot of the character arcs it pretty much is. Structurally it follows the beats of Way of Water and when it doesn't then it is following the beats of the first movie. There's the big battle towards the middle that sends all the good guys into dissarray, there's the new animals who seem like a threat who unite to help the good guys in the end, will Quaritch have a face turn or won't he (they still don't give an answer), there's prayers to Eiwah that get answered at the end and it all ends up on ANOTHER burning sea-ship like the end of the last one. Same exact model and all.

The big new ingredient is the fire clan people. That's like the only new thing here. And nobody dies except the pregnant Kate Winslet character. I thought we were at least going to get a grand fight with Neytiri vs. the crazy fire clan lady like they were clearly setting up but it never happens. No, if Avatar ends with this movie it isn't a remotely satisfying ending because nothing changes. The military is still there and are sure to be enraged into retaliation even there, the fire clan will surely come back for revenge after this... nothing at all is "wrapped up."

Cameron's making at least two more movies after this, it was never going to wrap up here

[Andrew NDB]

Cameron's making at least two more movies after this, it was never going to wrap up here

Yeah, but he's been publicly -- and suddenly -- been talking about he is OK to walk way from Avatar now if this one doesn't make enough to fulfill what needs to happen for 4 and 5, and even if it does, he will still "direct" but he might step way back in what he did with these last two so he can focus on other stuff. Like another Terminator movie. Earlier it was a WWII thing.

All of this to say probably he's just laid breadcrumbs to basically slightly give reins to others on Avatar while still ABSOLUTELY finding a way to finish this all, while moving on to other stuff more directly. So he's not just Avatar Guy for another 10 years. While also creating a shield to where if Fire & Ash really does badly he can say this was his plan all along, just the same.

[CyberCubed]

The first Avatar was a novelty at the time (it was one of the first movies in 3D in theaters, right?), and the story was just ok. It was really seeing the world of Pandora that drew people in. But after that it's just an average story, basically Pocahontas with aliens.

After that, the second one was really subpar, and I don't know about the third, let alone a 4th or 5th? I have no idea what the hype is.

[Andrew NDB]

8vEYRARBXxk

A very interesting interview of Cameron by Michael Biehn. Who has a podcast now, apparently. I kept it on in the background while I was wrapping presents today and it was actually pretty insightful. It's a lot of lowball questions and Biehn clearly, clearly with hurt feelings that Cameron ultimately does his best to clear up and it ends with some really awkward Abyss shooting talk. It's very engaging and worth a listen, IMO.

Also, Cameron's candid opinions on Newt and all getting killed off in Alien 3.

The first Avatar was a novelty at the time (it was one of the first movies in 3D in theaters, right?), and the story was just ok. It was really seeing the world of Pandora that drew people in. But after that it's just an average story, basically Pocahontas with aliens.

Dude, there was 3D movies in the theaters in the 80s. Have you not heard of Jaws 3-D? Friday the 13th 3-D? But Avatar definitely blew a whole generation away with THAT 3D. Modern 3D. It definitely blew me away. I can only speak for myself (and I don't get too caught up in the anti-colonialism stuff like a lot of people do who hate these movies just for that) but it was like the best possible gut punch in the cinematic experience, while at the same time throwing us into this whole new vibrant alien world. With possibilities. And cute catgirls and all of that stuff.

Remember, again, all the people apparently killing themselves around Avatar's release because they wanted to go off and live on Pandora. The people saying this didn't have a cultural impact are wrong.

After that, the second one was really subpar, and I don't know about the third, let alone a 4th or 5th? I have no idea what the hype is.

Well, you won't get much of an argument from me now. Especially after seeing this third movie. If I had to honestly and best describe the Avatar phenomenon, it's a generation that was truly wowed by the 3D tech Cameron brought in 2009 combined with that alien world and its like a high that that group is always chasing. I wish I could say 2 and 3 might be pulling in a new generation and maybe they are, but idk. I think the general idea is the same audience that was WOWED by everything in 2009 now had kids of their own in 2025 about the same ages as the kids in 2 and 3, so they'll be uniquely tapped into the new stuff. Meanwhile, the audiences who didn't like Avatar 1 or didn't see it and/or just post about "It's just Ferngully recycled!" and never had kids in the intervening years and probably never will by this point aren't going to find anything new or good in this.

[sdp]

Avatar just makes me nostalgic about the time I finished High School and not knowing what was going on with my life. It was the movie that invented 3D and people forget that. It revived the movie industry, I remember every movie after it got converted to 3D, and then new movies were filmed specifically in 3D.

I personally really loved watching movies in 3D and still do, thanks to VR you can actually watch all those 3D movies the way they were meant to be in a giant screen.

[Andrew NDB]

Avatar 3 is at 805 million worldwide, 227 million domestic.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Avatar#tab=summary

So far it's trending EXACTLY the same as the first movie, weekend to weekend. Which is to say it is not trending like the second movie, which opened bigger and splashier than the first movie but didn't have QUITE the same legs. Either way, definitely too early to call it on part 3.

[neatoman]

Avatar 3 is at 805 million worldwide, 227 million domestic.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Avatar#tab=summary

So far it's trending EXACTLY the same as the first movie, weekend to weekend. Which is to say it is not trending like the second movie, which opened bigger and splashier than the first movie but didn't have QUITE the same legs. Either way, definitely too early to call it on part 3.

Yeah, I just checked and some people here in stockholm have bought tickets up to the 12th of January. This thing is probably going to continue selling tickets for quite some time.

[sdp]

but like Avatar 2 no one is talking about the movie, it's odd. You can't say the same for Avatar 1, everyone talked about it.

[Andrew NDB]

but like Avatar 2 no one is talking about the movie, it's odd. You can't say the same for Avatar 1, everyone talked about it.

People say this a lot, but with big juggernaut movies... IS there a lot of banter about them after they come out? Like Top Gun: Maverick. Undeniably huge box office, great movie. But it's not like we all saw it and came back to the boards to debate the finer points of anything in it. Like 3 guys posted here. There's more posts about Avatar 3 already here than anything about that movie.

[sdp]

I've never seen top gun nor the sequel but i knew the sequel did huge numbers because people were talking about it on twitter/reddit/discord

[IMJ]

I've never seen top gun nor the sequel but i knew the sequel did huge numbers because people were talking about it on twitter/reddit/discord

They are both great movies, but the 2nd is like a modern "Hell's Angels" and I mean that in the best possible way.

[Andrew NDB]

So it looks like Avatar 3 will be sunsetting at 1.5 billion worldwide, 400 million domestic. It remains to be seen if that is enough for Cameron to continue.

[neatoman]

So it looks like Avatar 3 will be sunsetting at 1.5 billion worldwide, 400 million domestic. It remains to be seen if that is enough for Cameron to continue.

It's a really weird thought that 1.5 billion in box office "isn't enough".