The Space Arc Being a Stable Time Loop?

[matteso586]

Since about the start of season 4, I've been thinking that the whole arc is one of those stable time loops (like in Futurama). Do you think that it could be true?

In case you don't know what a stable time loop is, here's a link that explains it. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StableTimeLoop

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

You do know that a black hole prevents time travel.

[TMNTInsighter]

I thought "Tale of the Yokai" already established this.

[matteso586]

I thought "Tale of the Yokai" already established this.

True, but the Space arc could be another one. Remember how there are different causes of time travel in Futurama?

[Utrommaniac]

True, but the Space arc could be another one. Remember how there are different causes of time travel in Futurama?

You could be the consort of the Queen of England!


So far, they seem to be doing fairly okay, since they've basically just shown us how the Triceratons got the pieces in the first place.

[Splinter the boss]

I voted yes, however if it is a time loop, how did the Triceratons not recognize the turtles when they attacked in the first place?

[victory_angel]

I voted yes, however if it is a time loop, how did the Triceratons not recognize the turtles when they attacked in the first place?

That was probably what that amusing information was. Seeing the Turtles battling on earth, so Mozar realizes the Turtles trying to stop them are a copy from the future where Earth has been destroyed.

[matteso586]

Here are my reasons for thinking it could be a time loop.

1) Bishop somehow knew that the Triceratons are coming to Earth in Annihilation Earth. He probably learned that in The War for Dimension X. Could Bishop possess that kind of foresight?

2) The ending scene in Transdimensional Turtles implies that Tiger Claw used the portal gun to get back to his dimension.

3) Mozar somehow knows that human beings (some actually) pollute their own planet, without the use of mutagen.

4) Most confusing of all. If Earth was destroyed, how are Renet, Lord Simultaneous, and Savanti able to exist? We may be under the presumption that the Heart of Darkness is not what it seems.

[matteso586]

You could be the consort of the Queen of England!

I remember that one. The only time travel episode that doesn't have that kind of time loop.

[ABrown]

So wait. Are we asking if this is going to end with the Earth does actually get destroyed and Splinter dying? Because if that's the case, then no. Absolutely not. The Earth will not ending up getting destroyed, and Master Splinter will not be dead.

[neatoman]

You could be the consort of the Queen of England!

Not so sure that's something anyone wants, just look at her.
http://howafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/queen-of-England.jpg

[Vicky82]

So wait. Are we asking if this is going to end with the Earth does actually get destroyed and Splinter dying? Because if that's the case, then no. Absolutely not. The Earth will not ending up getting destroyed, and Master Splinter will not be dead.

No that's not what the poll is asking.

It's about if the Space arc is on a stable time loop but as i'm not a time travel fan and no expert someone else who is a time travel fan can explain.

[Vicky82]

Not so sure that's something anyone wants, just look at her.
http://howafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/queen-of-England.jpg

:ohwell:

There's nothing wrong with her, she is 90.

[ABrown]

No that's not what the poll is asking.

It's about if the Space arc is on a stable time loop but as i'm not a time travel fan and no expert someone else who is a time travel fan can explain.

I'm definitely not a time travel expert. But everything that I'm reading in that link would lead up to the turtles not having changed anything:

"Through Applied Phlebotinum, Functional Magic, or some other means, our heroes travel back to the past. In the past, they wind up being responsible for the very events that underpin their own "present." This creates a chicken-and-egg scenario, in which the looping sequence of events has no clear beginning. "

"This is also the basic premise of how Time Travel would work, according to Albert Einstein. Simply put, even if it were possible to travel back in time, you would not be able to change any events in the past, because they've already happened. No matter what your intentions, everything that you did would only fulfill the past. The only thing that would change is your perception of the events."

[neatoman]

:ohwell:

There's nothing wrong with her, she is 90.

Well, not for a 90 year old woman but would you honestly want to be consort of someone who's 90?

[Vicky82]

Well, not for a 90 year old woman but would you honestly want to be consort of someone who's 90?

Well it depends how much money they have :lol:

[Chabrendeki]

The new clip and the gifs confirm that the "space arc turtles" meet with the "pre-space-arc turtles" in the next episode. So there will be 8 turtles.

A) What happens if the 8 turtles succeed in preventing the launch of the Black Hole Generator (BHG)?

1) For the rest of the series we will have 8 turtles. (Would be uncomfortable.)
2) the "space arc turtles" will be "fading away", as he don't have any cause anymore in the past for being. (Would be too "Back to the Future")
3) in the fight one version of the turtles has to sacrifice his life. (Would be a forced solution to the real problem.)

B) What can happen if the doubled turtle power isn't enough to stop the Triceratons to launch the BHG?

1) Earth blows up, the pre-space-arc turtles will be rescued by the pre-space-arc Fugitoid and we get a repeat of the space arc forever and ever. (Would be fun. No.)
2) Earth blows up, pre-space-arc turtles go with Fugitoid, but we follow the space arc turtles who go through the "black hole" to another world (another dimension, or a journey beyond, like a Turtle Comedy (cf. Dante...) (Would be cool, but they don't dare)
3) BHG blows up, pre-space-arc turtles follow Fugitoid, but because of some operation or wathever, after the blow the earth is still unharmed, status quo is restored (Splinter dead or alive?). (I think this will happen.)

Remark to B1: after this episode should follow a rerun already... what if they make a rerun of the space arce but instead of this ending after the rerun with a different ending? You know what I mean? Making the rerun steady part of the show as the "history" repeats itself... :lol:
(No, they don't dare, would be too postmodern.)

[matteso586]

There goes my theory about the Space arc being a time loop.

[TMNTInsighter]

So wait. Are we asking if this is going to end with the Earth does actually get destroyed and Splinter dying? Because if that's the case, then no. Absolutely not. The Earth will not ending up getting destroyed, and Master Splinter will not be dead.

It doesn't have to end 100% that way to be a stable time loop. It can still happen but with a few things switched around, not to mention the repercussions/consequences will remain the same.

[Bitsy83]

I'm really confused about past Turtles meeting space Turtles. If the BHG is shut down and everything is back to normal, then the space arc never happened, the space team will fade, and the past team won't know of Mona Lisa, Chompy, and of course, Fugitoid, which is pretty unfair if Fugitoid is the character that will die.

Unless some weird deux ex machina paradox happens which would merge past and space teams together so that the memories of the space turtles are planted in the heads of the past turtles...just seems like a waste for the Turtles to have no memory of the space events.

Not only that, but April's training and amulet will have been wasted potential....

[Jephael]

Boy, you guys are really reading way too much into this. It's obvious that the season 3 TMNT will still go back in time with Fugitoid and have their minds reset to what originally transpired and the season 4 TMNT will resume their lives in New York City. It's basic Back to the Future/Quantum Leap logic!

[shredder orokusaki]

Has any of you finished the newvideo game by Remedy that got released 2 weeks ago, Quatnum Break? I finished playing Quatnum Break on my PC 5 days ago it is a game about timre travelling if you havent play it i recomend it to play it is awesome game and has soem explanation on how time travellng work. At the begining a major character, the brother of the protagonist dies and then Jack Joyce travels back in time to save the Earth and him. At the end of the gamr he travels at the begining of the game (at the time when the time experiement started freezeing time) and he is able to save his brothe and kill Paul Serene(the villian ). And also Earth is saved. If any of you played this game then you can understand that something simialr is going to happen in the tmnt show too. Since both this game arc and current season 4 tmnt show arc has very similaririties.

[Chabrendeki]

Boy, you guys are really reading way too much into this. It's obvious that the season 3 TMNT will still go back in time with Fugitoid and have their minds reset to what originally transpired and the season 4 TMNT will resume their lives in New York City. It's basic Back to the Future/Quantum Leap logic!

But there is a contradiction: for the season 3 turtles to go back in time with Fugitoid, the Earth has to be destroyed and Splinter has to be dead. So the season 4 turtles have nothing to live on.

But if they prevent the explosion and the murdering of Splinter, the season 3 turtles have no motivation to go back in time. And make them believe, that they failed, would be a little bit rude, don't you think?

And I don't think Nick would go the only satisfying solution, i.e. the ultimate sacrifice: the season 4 turtles sacrifice their lifes in stopping the Triceratons, so season 3 turtles have no need to go back again, and the loop is broken.

[victory_angel]

In addition to star wars and hitchhikers guide to the galaxy among other space films.

There are references to star trek. In this recent film series by JJ. Abrams. There is a time warp event where Spock had attempted to save the planet Romulus from a super nova by creating an artificial black hole. This act fails as Romulus is destroyed and both Spocks ship and a Romulan ship called the Narada are also caught in the black hole and sent back in time.

The Romulan's arrive in the past and destroy federation starship, USS Kelvin. James T. Kirk is born to his soon after widowed mother during the event creating an alternate timeline.

Some years later Kirk is marooned by Spock on the Planet Delta Vega. It's here he finds the Spock from the original timeline who explains that he is from 100+ years in the future.

There is a later point in the film where Spock encounters his alternate self who tells him to continue to serve the enterprise and continue to do what is right vs. what is logical.

And from there Spock only seeks the knowledge and expertise of his alternate self when he absolutely needs it. But otherwise, the two Spocks vow never to offer interaction or give information that would alter the destiny of that current universe.

The Turtles never encounter their future counterparts in the season three finale. But they do this time. Since the Space Turtles would be from an alternate timeline they would not want to alter the new course of time that is created by the occurring changes. So it would make sense that perhaps they return to space so they don't interfere with the world as it is now.

Or maybe April uses that crystal to psychically merge both past and present versions of the turtles together so they can return to their lives on Earth but still remember the experiences they had in space.

[Chabrendeki]

The Turtles never encounter their future counterparts in the season three finale. But they do this time. Since the Space Turtles would be from an alternate timeline they would not want to alter the new course of time that is created by the occurring changes. So it would make sense that perhaps they return to space so they don't interfere with the world as it is now.

And then Nick could do a spin off: the original show could follow the adventures of the "earth-turtles" and the spin off of the encounters of the "space turtles"... Would be cool... but I don't see that happen.


Or maybe April uses that crystal to psychically merge both past and present versions of the turtles together so they can return to their lives on Earth but still remember the experiences they had in space.

For me that would be unsatisfying. Too much of a deus ex machina solution.

[victory_angel]

And then Nick could do a spin off: the original show could follow the adventures of the "earth-turtles" and the spin off of the encounters of the "space turtles"... Would be cool... but I don't see that happen.


Anything is possible, Nick did mention in an article last year that there were a couple of Spin offs's being conceptualized. One that we currently know of is TMNT the O'Neil files which from the sounds of things sounds like the nick show from April's point of view.

Then there is half-shelled Heroes of which there has been only one televised special, which is more of a chibified 2d version of the nick show. But is more or less it's own universe altogether.

So perhaps we may see a Mutant Ninja Turtle Baby's series (Think a Ninja Turtle version of Muppet Babys, or Baby Loonytoons) in the future, or TURTLES IN SPAAAACE...

[matteso586]

Do you think April will give her past self the crystal, before she (possibly) fades?

Speaking of which, if the fading does happen, I bet Mikey will tell his past self to ridicule Chris Bradford by watching his old show.

[Vicky82]

Do you think April will give her past self the crystal, before she (possibly) fades?

Speaking of which, if the fading does happen, I bet Mikey will tell his past self to ridicule Chris Bradford by watching his old show.

Also Raph will have to tell past Raph that he's in love with a space Newt.

[Aaronardo]

For me that would be unsatisfying. Too much of a deus ex machina solution.

Wouldn't be below the writers of this show at this point.

[victory_angel]

Also Raph will have to tell past Raph that he's in love with a space Newt.

Maybe if the Fugatoid is destroyed with only his brain left, space Donnie would tell his past self that Professor Honeycutt was a brilliant man. And has served as not just as an ally, but mentor to not only to him, but April.

[Chabrendeki]

Also Raph will have to tell past Raph that he's in love with a space Newt.

Yeah, that's exactly how love works... :D

[TMNTInsighter]

In addition to star wars and hitchhikers guide to the galaxy among other space films.

There are references to star trek. In this recent film series by JJ. Abrams. There is a time warp event where Spock had attempted to save the planet Romulus from a super nova by creating an artificial black hole. This act fails as Romulus is destroyed and both Spocks ship and a Romulan ship called the Narada are also caught in the black hole and sent back in time.

The Romulan's arrive in the past and destroy federation starship, USS Kelvin. James T. Kirk is born to his soon after widowed mother during the event creating an alternate timeline.

Some years later Kirk is marooned by Spock on the Planet Delta Vega. It's here he finds the Spock from the original timeline who explains that he is from 100+ years in the future.

There is a later point in the film where Spock encounters his alternate self who tells him to continue to serve the enterprise and continue to do what is right vs. what is logical.

And from there Spock only seeks the knowledge and expertise of his alternate self when he absolutely needs it. But otherwise, the two Spocks vow never to offer interaction or give information that would alter the destiny of that current universe.

...

There's also "Looper" which I forgot to mention earlier. At the end of the film, the younger Joe sees that his older self is about to (unintentionally) cause the future events he came back to stop actually transpire. So before it can happen, younger Joe kills himself, thus killing his older self.
"Gargoyles" also follows a stable time loop but the episode "MIA" is able to "cheat" yet also seem fair. One of the characters travels back in time to prevent the loss of another yet realizes that he can't so long as he's stuck in the past (as a bunch of "Final Destination"-esque situations arise), so what he can do is be able to return him to his friends in the present instead.

[victory_angel]

I remember the show and episode of which you speak. There was also going to be a spin-off series called Time Dancer. During this spin-off Brooklyn is taken by the Phoenix gate and sent on a journey through time. For his friends he would be gone five minutes, but for him the journey is spans over 40 years. And whenever anything in the original show seemed to happen a little too conveniently. It's because Brooklyn was there to make sure that things happened the way they were supposed to.

[TMNTInsighter]

You deserve a thumbs up.

[Jephael]

Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me had a kind of time loop where he went back 10 minutes to save his girlfriend. He momentarily teamed up with his earlier self similar to what we'll see the TMNT do.