Official Ep Discussion S4 Ep 14: Earth's Last Stand

[GoldMutant]

"It's the end of the world every day, for someone" -Margaret Atwood

After thirteen episodes involving space adventures, new characters of old and reinterpretations, romance..... and beautiful animation, the time has come. Truly the time has come for the Earth to stand strong as it's the final countdown in a race against time. With the confirmation of the past and present joining forces by IGN not too long ago, it's a pure race to the end to save the Earth to prevent repeated history. However, something seems amiss for our heroes in a half shell attempting to stop the Triceratons.

What events will transpire for everyone? Will history be altered with a confirmed death of someone? Can the space arc end on a high note after another major divide in reception? Only one way to find out if this is truly Earth's Last Stand.

Brace yourselves everyone, we're almost done with space! :)

http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/04/21/nicks-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-two-turtle-teams-unite-in-new-clip\
http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/teen...-414-clip.html

[Vicky82]

Can a mod sticky this please.

It's now up on ITunes and spoilers started appearing on Tumblr and i'm trying to avoid them.

[KrN]

The episode is up on Amazon for sale.

[Vicky82]

The episode is up on Amazon for sale.

I just tried buying it but as i'm from the UK it won't take my card. :cry:

I wonder if it's up on Nick.com yet.

[KrN]

I just tried buying it but as i'm from the UK it won't take my card. :cry:

I wonder if it's up on Nick.com yet.

I feel your pain ): I'm from Australia and it won't work, either.

It's not up on Nick.com just yet. Do they upload episodes closer to the air date, or afterwards?

Was trying to avoid tumblr for potential spoilers but I'm way too excited!

[Vicky82]

I feel your pain ): I'm from Australia and it won't work, either.

It's not up on the Nick.com just yet. Do they upload episodes closer to the air date, or afterwards?

Previously they uploaded the mid season finale and season final a week early but not this time but I expect it's because they were 2 part episodes.

[kelligrafie]

If Fugitoid 'dies' will he say the infamous, "I don't wanna go" line?

[CyberCubed]

Hopefully the critically acclaimed space arc has a well done finale.

[Ninturtle]

Hopefully the critically acclaimed space arc has a well done finale.

This is one of your funniest post yet.

[Redworld96]

I just tried buying it but as i'm from the UK it won't take my card. :cry:

I wonder if it's up on Nick.com yet.

Vicky you can watch it you know where :D It was an intense episode :o

Two days ago I wrote this on the season 4 thread:
"I bet it will be Fugitoid.
I really doubt Splinter dies again, and I don't see the turtles dying in this show (altought I would love to watch the IDW 44 issue happening).
Or maybe the one who "dies" is Leo, staying unconscious while he's floating in the space, but the others manage to get him and reanimate him on time".

.....

At the end both things happened XDD

There's something I didn't understand here:
Someone who finished to watch the episode. Can explain how the time travel works in this show? Because I dont understand how that final scene with the ship can happen.

[cookie jar]

It was a decent episode.

[victory_angel]

Vicky you can watch it you know where :D It was an intense episode :o

Two days ago I wrote this on the season 4 thread:
"I bet it will be Fugitoid.
I really doubt Splinter dies again, and I don't see the turtles dying in this show (altought I would love to watch the IDW 44 issue happening).
Or maybe the one who "dies" is Leo, staying unconscious while he's floating in the space, but the others manage to get him and reanimate him on time".

.....

At the end both things happened XDD

There's something I didn't understand here:
Someone who finished to watch the episode. Can explain how the time travel works in this show? Because I dont understand how that final scene with the ship can happen.

It's a temporal change.

Due to the going back in time, there were temporal copies of the Turtles, April, and Casey back on earth. And because of that, there were two versions of the Professor because Bishop contacted him after his body was destroyed.

The previous Honeycutt, took the original turtles back in time so they could obtain and destroy the heart of darkness. A device which he had created, and was plagued with guilt about. Since the heart of Darkness was destroyed this go round they couldn't have two versions of the same characters on the same planet. So the temporal copies went on a trip to explore the cosmos with the Fugatoid, this time, it's a more relaxed journey rather than being saddled with the stress of preventing Earth destruction (possible spin-off fodder). Then the ending moment was indicating that even though Honeycutt sacrificed himself, his brain is still alive. So it is possible that Donnie could eventually restore him by creating a braincase that could fit in metalhead, and making him the New Metalhead.

[Vicky82]

OMG!!!!!! that was awesome and intense. I did get a little tearier.

I was right about Fugitoid's secret.

So The Character death was.

Leo (for like 2 minutes) and Fugitoid (until the end). Also the Triceratons if you count them

I was a little disappointed that Mikey didn't hug Leo, it was just Raph and Donnie.

[KrN]

Well, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time during that episode.

I think a lot of us predicted that Fugitoid not only built the Generator but would also be the one who would destroy it - himself included. Even though I completely related to Leonardo's outburst and why he would feel so betrayed by the secret kept by Fugitoid, it still upset me to see him sacrifice himself like that. Love you, Fugidude.

Is it just me or is Leo's patience wearing thin lately? He seems to be much more volatile and irritable this season. Things might change now that the Space arc is over and a great deal of his worries are finally over. Shout-out to Raph for calling Leo out on not leading the team though. As a Leo fan, I enjoy his one-man missions but seriously, equal screen time and development for each turtle please. And while I'm ranting about development, can Casey find another word to say after a sentence other than 'Yo'? Or, hey, just stop talking.

Was anyone else's heart racing when the shot of Splinter running with Shredder right behind him popped up? Because I thought mine was going to slam out of my chest. Talk about intense... but of course, Space Leo had just enough time to warn Splinter and my anxiety greatly decreased when he broke? Shredder's arm.

"I knew you were a snake, but stopping me from saving the world?"
"It is because of you that Karai is gone!"

Hey, two Karai references in one, cool. On some level I do understand Shredder's motives and why he does what he does but my god, he is so far beyond redemption that it makes me seriously question if he's genuinely insane or not. What sense is there in sacrificing the world - his daughter - to get revenge? Which is the age old question for this guy, but still... If his reasoning for not wanting to miss the opportunity to kill Splinter is Karai, then why not put off your damn vendetta until the world is saved and you have her back? I have praised Shredder for not being a one dimensional villain that is just evil to be evil and actually have some depth and reasons for being the way he is - I don't know if he's just lost the plot since Karai found out his little secret, but damn... check your priorities, Shredhead.

All in all, I genuinely enjoyed this episode - I have for quite a lot of the Space episodes, to be honest. I think my expectations were lower than they were for North Hampton (which sorely disappointed me. So much opportunity wasted on more mutants-of-the-week) so even though I was antsy to get back to Earth, it was a good arc! It's sort of obvious what season 5's arc will be and damn, am I excited for that one.

Until then - I shall enjoy being back in New York!

Earth's Last Stand // 8.9

[Redworld96]

What I don’t get is how 2 leos, 2 donnies, 2 mikeys, 2 raphs, 2 aprils and 2 caseys can co-exist in the same universe and in the same time after the BHG was destroyed.

I mean, during all the space travel it makes sense because they were in the past. But in the exact moment when Fugitoid #2 sacrifies himself and kills the triceratons, they’re not in the past anymore, they’re now in the present.

Then I thought the group of the past would just dissapear forever, letting the space group to be on earth. But it seems that the Fugitoid #1 takes the group #1 to search adventures …..

In other words, they have now “twins” who are travelling in space. That group can actually come back to earth, or stays on another planet, a lot of possibilities ...
I see it illogical, really. Because there should be only one same person in the same universe.
Besides, I have always wondered this:

If I travel in the past, and my other me of the past gets killed, I would die too?

This issue remains me the Mirai Nikki anime, and it’s really confusing

[Tarris Vaal]

Technically they are in the past until right after they leave Earth and go back in time. So having 2 groups briefly together does bear out ok - except that in theory they should have been there first time around as well which means....

....they've technically caused a wobble in pre existing events as the 'past' turtles now aren't affected by the BHG and Splinter's death as those events didnt occur.
Which then means they dont have the urgency they did before, which means they are much more likely to fail in their mission. Which would then explain why they aren't around to help in the next attempt which then means that the urgency returns for the turtles prior to them... and so on....

So in theory, every 'other' group of turtles succeeds to change the timeline and save Earth/Splinter. And their success causes the next group to fail, which causes the next to succeed.....

Isn't time travel fun? :)


Anyway great episode :) Though I am a little bit disappointed they didn't follow through on one aspect Splinter

[CyberCubed]

This was a great episode.

But yeah, our Turtles are technically in the "past" now. While the ones off in space are their past selves. So wouldn't they come back from their space adventures too at some point?

Its kinda weird, there's two sets of Turtles and April/Casey now. I don't know how they're going to deal with this later.

[Vicky82]

This was a great episode.

But yeah, our Turtles are technically in the "past" now. While the ones off in space are their past selves. So wouldn't they come back from their space adventures too at some point?


I assume they go back in time too.

[kelligrafie]

Just think it's now possible for April to date both Donnie and Casey and it be legit. :lol:

Don't tell tumblr/deviantart I just said that.

[The Happy One]

Just think it's now possible for April to date both Donnie and Casey and it be legit. :lol:

Don't tell tumblr/deviantart I just said that.

:lol: I still gotta watch it but...that was hilarious.

I won't tell.

[Chabrendeki]

This was a great episode.

But yeah, our Turtles are technically in the "past" now. While the ones off in space are their past selves. So wouldn't they come back from their space adventures too at some point?

Its kinda weird, there's two sets of Turtles and April/Casey now. I don't know how they're going to deal with this later.

I think the strategy will be: forget them.

The worst solution ever.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time during that episode.

I think a lot of us predicted that Fugitoid not only built the Generator but would also be the one who would destroy it - himself included. Even though I completely related to Leonardo's outburst and why he would feel so betrayed by the secret kept by Fugitoid, it still upset me to see him sacrifice himself like that. Love you, Fugidude.

Is it just me or is Leo's patience wearing thin lately? He seems to be much more volatile and irritable this season. Things might change now that the Space arc is over and a great deal of his worries are finally over. Shout-out to Raph for calling Leo out on not leading the team though. As a Leo fan, I enjoy his one-man missions but seriously, equal screen time and development for each turtle please. And while I'm ranting about development, can Casey find another word to say after a sentence other than 'Yo'? Or, hey, just stop talking.

Was anyone else's heart racing when the shot of Splinter running with Shredder right behind him popped up? Because I thought mine was going to slam out of my chest. Talk about intense... but of course, Space Leo had just enough time to warn Splinter and my anxiety greatly decreased when he broke? Shredder's arm.

"I knew you were a snake, but stopping me from saving the world?"
"It is because of you that Karai is gone!"

Hey, two Karai references in one, cool. On some level I do understand Shredder's motives and why he does what he does but my god, he is so far beyond redemption that it makes me seriously question if he's genuinely insane or not. What sense is there in sacrificing the world - his daughter - to get revenge? Which is the age old question for this guy, but still... If his reasoning for not wanting to miss the opportunity to kill Splinter is Karai, then why not put off your damn vendetta until the world is saved and you have her back? I have praised Shredder for not being a one dimensional villain that is just evil to be evil and actually have some depth and reasons for being the way he is - I don't know if he's just lost the plot since Karai found out his little secret, but damn... check your priorities, Shredhead.

All in all, I genuinely enjoyed this episode - I have for quite a lot of the Space episodes, to be honest. I think my expectations were lower than they were for North Hampton (which sorely disappointed me. So much opportunity wasted on more mutants-of-the-week) so even though I was antsy to get back to Earth, it was a good arc! It's sort of obvious what season 5's arc will be and damn, am I excited for that one.

Until then - I shall enjoy being back in New York!

Earth's Last Stand // 8.9

It is indeed something I've noticed with the last episode where Leo showed no concern over Tokka or it's child.

[TMNTInsighter]

Well...

"I knew you were a snake, but stopping me from saving the world?"
"It is because of you that Karai is gone!"

Hey, two Karai references in one, cool. On some level I do understand Shredder's motives and why he does what he does but my god, he is so far beyond redemption that it makes me seriously question if he's genuinely insane or not. What sense is there in sacrificing the world - his daughter - to get revenge? Which is the age old question for this guy, but still... If his reasoning for not wanting to miss the opportunity to kill Splinter is Karai, then why not put off your damn vendetta until the world is saved and you have her back? I have praised Shredder for not being a one dimensional villain that is just evil to be evil and actually have some depth and reasons for being the way he is - I don't know if he's just lost the plot since Karai found out his little secret, but damn... check your priorities, Shredhead.

...

Have you forgotten about Tang Shen? She was his whole world, was probably the only one who could've made him a better man, and now she's gone...and as far as he and the rest of the characters know, Karai. I've always said that Karai played a huge role in how AE ended w/o actually being there, and Saki's final action in AE is quite a way to put a dreary spin on the old lovers' phrase "Without you, there is no world." Sure, his betrayal in AE still doesn't make a lot of sense even when you factor in everything with regards to him and his relationship and viewpoints regarding Yoshi, but I've always blamed that more on the fact that episode writer Brandon Auman knew how he wanted AE to end but didn't really know how to get there.
But in all seriousness, Saki's character in this series reminds me quite a bit of Demona from the animated series, "Gargoyles." He loved her, but to admit to himself that he was responsible for her own death would destroy him.
And to see how Splinter has gotten over those events and has been able to move on almost reinforces the ideas that Saki has built for himself. When you take Splinter's own view of things into consideration (which are, as far as we know, gospel truth), it almost seems that each of them thinks that the other is being willfully perverse in how they see things. And I think that's the real tragedy between those two, that they can't see how much the events of the past (as well as how much they both really did love her) have really impacted the other.

[shredder orokusaki]

Grrrr noooo splinter is alive! Grrrrrrr!!! I hate you turtles! I hate you so much!!

[GoldMutant]

Hopefully the critically acclaimed space arc has a well done finale.

:roll: You said that with 4Kids, I don't know where you're getting your knowledge, but I'm going to nod and smile.

I do want to make a poll for the episode, but I'm going to wait and give thoughts in a little while because honestly, this is one of the most difficult episodes to review personally.

[TigerClaw]

Here we go!

[ObiWanFan4life]

The leader, ladies and gentlemen......:roll:

[The Happy One]

Leo...god, you idiot.

Was I supposed to laugh when Leo blew up:lol:

[Hero]

Clever bit 15 minutes in! :D

[ObiWanFan4life]

Well, Leonardo's lapse of judgment aside, this is probably the first episode of the season that I've really enjoyed.

If for nothing else, I'm relieved the bloated space arc is over...:D.

[TigerClaw]

That's interesting
The present day Turtles did not disapear from existing, and the past Turtles go with past Fugitoid into space either way

[The Happy One]

I....I'm not sure how to feel about that last part, actually.

[Aaronardo]

A little bothered by the fact that the past Fugitoid seemed pretty unfazed by the fact that the black hole generator was gone. More bothered by how many time inconsistencies this causes. And probably mostly bothered by the fact that with no black hole generator, there is really no point for the past Turtles to go into space. Gotta get rid of them other Turtles somehow, right, Auman?

Otherwise, pretty enjoyable episode.

[xenopokemon]

What a... confusing way to end the space arc.

[aprilsfan]

two sets of turtles i wonder if.....

the future turtles die in one episode and the past turtles return to take their place after they die

[xenopokemon]

two sets of turtles i wonder if.....

the future turtles die in one episode and the past turtles return to take their place after they die

Maybe in six months. That's how long the future turtles took to save Earth.

[ToTheNines]

Crap episode. The third act was really good, mostly due to Splinter beating the crap outta Shredder and the past/future tag team vs. Mozar, but the ending was dumb. The six of them just run off with Fugitoid willy nilly for no reason? Aren't they gonna want to come back at some point? What's the point of this "wonderous journey" if there's no BHG pieces to locate?

Then Honeycutt's death was awesome and emotional, but they couldn't commit...

And yeah, the first two acts were a total waste of time. Complete with forced drama, out of character bufoonery and reused season 3 footage.

And now Bishop's appearance in Annihilation Earth retroactively makes no sense. Why would he go to Earth without contacting Honeycutt?

[TigerClaw]

IGN review is up, they gave this episode a 9.0
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/24/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-earths-last-stand-review

[TigerClaw]

Crap episode. The third act was really good, mostly due to Splinter beating the crap outta Shredder and the past/future tag team vs. Mozar, but the ending was dumb. The six of them just run off with Fugitoid willy nilly for no reason? Aren't they gonna want to come back at some point? What's the point of this "wonderous journey" if there's no BHG pieces to locate?

Then Honeycutt's death was awesome and emotional, but they couldn't commit...

And yeah, the first two acts were a complete waste of time. Complete with forced drama, out of character bufoonery and reused season 3 footage.

And now Bishop's appearance in Annihilation Earth retroactively makes no sense. Why would he go to Earth without contacting Honeycutt?
Imagine if past Raph comes across Mona Lisa when they meet, she would remember him, but past Raph won't cause its like meeting her for the first time, how weird would that be.

Maybe she will come down to Earth at some point during Season 5.

[OrangeNinja1987]

The episode was mostly okay, I guess. It would have gotten a solid 8/10 from me if it wasn't for that moronic ending! It made absolutely no sense! So after destroying the BHG, neither of the teams of turtles stop existing, then right after saving Earth from near-destruction and nearly seeing Splinter killed, the past turtles just run into a space adventure with a robot they don't know and have no reason to trust! They literally just did what kids are warned not to do! "Hey kids, I have a space adventure for you! Why don't you come into this awesome white spaceship? No, don't ask your parents first!" Why would they want to go into space after such a dramatic event?
Anyways...so how long will that team of turtles be in space? Forever? Will they ever come back? Will Splinter not miss them? When will they become the future turtles? Will they have the same experiences in space? The only logical explanation for them to never come back is that they died in space, but if they died, wouldn't the future turtles die? Why would the future turtles send the past turtles into space if they die if the past turtles die? Space is the worst place to send someone your life depends on! Why would Fugitoid WANT to take those random teenagers on a space adventure? He was called because there was an emergency on Earth, but he arrived and it was gone, so wouldn't he just leave? IT MADE NO SENSE ON ANY LEVEL OF LOGIC!
3/10. That inconsistency with the end could have easily been fixed by having one team disappear or having them merge or something. It ruined the whole episode for me. I hardly enjoyed this whole arc and have felt like I have been watching out of obligation. I don't know how much longer I can stand to see what was once my favorite show go downhill.

[Aaronardo]

All I hope now is that they don't forget about Bishop. Like how they forgot about Kurtzman and Kirby.

I also love how Max's IGN review doesn't address that crap paradox at the end when he's getting down to the verdict, which easily makes this episode f*ck up literally the whole season, and yet still gives it a 9. Eh, I'll never understand how he reviews things.

[Chabrendeki]

Yes, all this "meet the past selves" plot had no real solution...

If I understand the time travel correctly, the "past turtles" here are from an alternate timeline (emerged in the moment the future turtles travelled back), so even if the past turtles die, the future turtles keep alive.

I wonder, if we get now episodes from both teams of turtles... I'm afraid the series will simply forget the now space travelling turtles, and just drop the whole thing.

But there are certain possibilities... what if at some point an eye-patched Raph and a cyborg Donnie show up, being the only survivors from the space adventure...?

[Vicky82]

two sets of turtles i wonder if.....

the future turtles die in one episode and the past turtles return to take their place after they die

Maybe in six months. That's how long the future turtles took to save Earth.

No because Fugitoid took the turtles back in time, while the space turtles become the current turtles, so it be a sort of time loop.

[MrTMNT2012]

The most insulting part about this show now (surpassing getting rid of the Season 1 writers) is that they really can't commit to sh!t.

[Papenbrook]

The most insulting part about this show now (surpassing getting rid of the Season 1 writers) is that they really can't commit to sh!t.

Agreed. I don't know how to cope with the show anymore... http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

[GoldMutant]

(sigh)

I called it on Splinter a long while back. I said his death was shock value; I said nobody would give a damn about him majority of the time. I knew the whole thing was a waste to just expand the Nickverse entirely.

With that out of the way, man.... this episode leaves a lot to be desired. It's a by the basics episode exactly like Battle for New York; by that, they took a predictable route and brought it up last minute to resolve a matter built up from a previous finale. Personally, that's how I felt this whole time as nothing of interest happens if you're familiar with the source material of the franchise. There's no repercussions of what's happened in NYC last season and nothing here either for the past and future joining forces.

Also, figures Leonardo and Fugitoid are the only two important guys of this arc. I seriously don't understand why Leo has to be the only guy saving the day; I understand it's because Fugitoid indirectly causes Splinter's demise in his backstory. However, it's just a safe play on Auman's part to do so when Raphael or hell, Michelangelo could have done the same thing for near identical impact if not greater. In addition, as much as I hate to see the Fugitoid bite the dust, this whole thing is just summed up in one word... predictability.

For everything in done here in space, there just felt no stakes after a four episode set up for new character reinterpretations. That I'll comment on later how this arc and Northampton failed with the stakes practically thrown away.

I'm giving this a 5/10, it's an average episode, but in terms of a midseason end, it's highly predictable and disappointing to an already mediocre arc.

[Splinter the boss]

Great episode, but Leo needed to chill in this episode. He made conclusions of his own which weren't even true, tried to play the hero which got annoying real quick. That's why I liked what Raph told him, "leaders are supposed to lead a team" not show off and let emotions get in their way.

[TMNTInsighter]

If I were a silly but humorless critic, I'd usually just sit hunched over my keyboard and start typing reviews that read like essays which concern things such as the psychology present in "Slash and Destroy" that makes it the great episode that it is, the similarities and differences between "The Wrath of Tiger Claw" and "The Deadly Venom", the cardinal writing sins of "The Fourfold Trap", what makes "Annihilation: Earth!" the standard by which all the other episodes are measured (not that I count it as the best episode of the series or even the season mind you)--not to mention the impact that "Tale of the Yokai" has on it, the existential questions inherent in "The Cosmic Ocean", etc. etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. There's nothing wrong with a cartoon series that takes itself seriously, case in point "Batman TAS". But even that was geared with general audiences in mind, as are all the animated adventures of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
And as Season 4a as I call it, comes to an end, we can't talk about this episode without going back to where the space arc all began. Obviously, how "Annihilation Earth" concluded was so beguiling that you just spent the time between it and "Beyond the Known Universe"--perhaps even episode 13 (or in this case 14)--wondering how the situation with Earth would be rectified. Perhaps a wish from t̶h̶e̶ ̶W̶i̶g̶g̶l̶e̶n̶o̶g̶ Wyrm? Maybe a twist that the BHG actually led those "destroyed" to another dimension? Time travel, or in this case a standard time loop, would almost be as beguiling due to the rules established in "Tale of the Yokai" since it could only lead back to square one.
If this sounds stark it is, even if we knew going into "The Ever Burning Fire" that it was coming--if not from the moment Fugitoid turned back time. "Annihilation Earth" and its predecessor established that the turtles and their allies were wrong about the universe, it's so much bigger than just the Kraang and their mutagen (with a Newtralizer on the side). With this episode, all that they have seen and went through come to a head.
The reactions by each character to Fugitoid's revelation vary between outrage and understanding and while Leonardo's may seem like overreacting thanks to his actions, it's still intact from his character exploration in "The Cosmic Ocean". Edgy, driven, and motivated, a revelation like this provides an understandable turn towards anger and frustration after all that has already happened. Beyond that though, the final act is given over entirely to schematics as the only point from there is to tidy up the finale of 3b to the finale of 4a so that Earth itself is back to square one in terms of existence. Tiger Claw, disappointingly was also back to square one after some great moments of character insight near the end of AE (although it may be disappointing from a personal perspective given this ones predictions going forward this season). That he would be oblivious to the goings on between Splinter and Shredder would seem fitting but it still features as part of the cruelly exposed schematics of wrapping up the time loop.
The story ends amusingly enough with Fugitoid gaining his redemption while allowing his past self to live on with those who made it possible, but shouldn't he make sure to take good care of them lest something terrible should happen to his friends' future selves in turn? Again, just as time travel rules can be both serious and silly, so too does a series like this juggle that same balance.

[Papenbrook]

On the bright side, think of all the Half-Shell Heroes spinoffs Nick can create. It'll be fun...:roll:

[NinjaPug]

Pretty weak ending to the space arc. I didn't like that at all.

- Extremely out of character stuff from Leo
- Terrible way to account for the second set of Turtles, April and Casey at the end
- Casey is the worst. Everything he says makes me cringe.
- Having Fugitoid not be dead took away the only emotional impact of the episode (and the entire space arc)

[shredder orokusaki]

Some screenshots itook from my fight with Splinter
Pc specs are 2500k 3,3ghz 12 gb ram gtx 970 g1 gaming 4gb. Capstured from VLC

http://postimg.org/image/q281ibkwn/
http://postimg.org/image/q9l5ores7/
http://postimg.org/image/g20bnhfvb/
http://postimg.org/image/ohd12icgn/

[CyberCubed]

Why are people saying the Turtles shouldn't go with Fugitoid to see space, even if it wasn't to save Earth? You think the Turtles would pass up a chance to visit space if they have a spaceship and robot to let them tour the galaxy?

[Mukouno]

Why are people saying the Turtles shouldn't go with Fugitoid to see space, even if it wasn't to save Earth? You think the Turtles would pass up a chance to visit space if they have a spaceship and robot to let them tour the galaxy?

I think it's more how it was handled... They all just run towards a robot they don't know without a care in the world, without preparations and stuff like that, you know, like maybe asking Splinter or in April and Casey's case telling their family they'll be gone for a while... Nothing is adressed, they just run away because it's awesome and basically... yolo.

[CyberCubed]

Because the Triceratons were stopped, Shredder was defeated, and the other Turtles were there. They knew Earth was safe.

[Mukouno]

Because the Triceratons were stopped, Shredder was defeated, and the other Turtles were there. They knew Earth was safe.

Sure, doesn't stop this whole thing from being waaay too sudden and poorly written. Seriously, the writers needed the past turtles to go, and that's what they came up with. They didn't even try.
I think most people, myself included, are just disappointed with how the whole time travel dilemma was resolved and thus of course don't like the rushed ending and poor reasoning behind it.

[CyberCubed]

I still don't see the problem. Fugitoid flat out invited the past Turtles, who had never seen space beyond Dimension X, for an adventure. Why wouldn't they be excited?

As said, they knew Earth was safe. Shredder was defeated and taken out and the current Turtles were there just in case anything else happened.

[TigerClaw]

I still don't see the problem. Fugitoid flat out invited the past Turtles, who had never seen space beyond Dimension X, for an adventure. Why wouldn't they be excited?

As said, they knew Earth was safe. Shredder was defeated and taken out and the current Turtles were there just in case anything else happened.
I bet at some point during Season 5, the past Turtles, April, Casey Jones and Fugitoid will return to Earth.

in Season 5, I bet Renet will show up and fix the timeline.

[CyberCubed]

I bet at some point during Season 5, the past Turtles, April, Casey Jones and Fugitoid will return to Earth.

in Season 5, I bet Renet will show up and fix the timeline.

It would be 6 months later, I suppose. The space arc took 6 months didn't it? Fugitoid set the Earth back 6 months when he restored it and that's how long it took the current Turtles to return there.

[TigerClaw]

It would be 6 months later, I suppose. The space arc took 6 months didn't it? Fugitoid set the Earth back 6 months when he restored it and that's how long it took the current Turtles to return there.
Yeah, 6 months would have past during Season 5 and the past characters would have return.

Also take into account that present day Fugitoid would come back to life.

[NinjaPug]

Why would this new space trip be 6 months? None of what happened in the first trip would take place on this one.

This was just an easy way to do away with a second set of characters. More than likely we never see them again.

[Vicky82]

This is the way I see it

Lets say the Space Turtles, April, Casey and Fugitoid are Group A and the past Turtles April, Casey and Fugitoid are Group B.

Group A saw the earth destroyed and go back 6 months in time to stop the Triceratons destroy earth again.

Group A return to earth help Group B to stop earth getting destroyed. Group A Fugitoid sacrifice himself to destroy the Black Hole Generator.

Because they’ve stopped earth getting destroyed it caused a paradox or a time loop so when Group B Fugitoid comes to earth he will know whats happened and will have to take Group B on time travel adventure and do the same thing again to make sure earth doesn’t get destroyed again.

So Group B become the new Space Turtles, April and Casey.

Group A will become the new present Turtles, April and Casey and continue on as normal.

[drgon78]

That was interesting and little confusing with there now there being two of them. I am sure the time lords will have to fix this one.

[ToTheNines]

Some screenshots itook from my fight with Splinter
Pc specs are 2500k 3,3ghz 12 gb ram gtx 970 g1 gaming 4gb. Capstured from VLC

http://postimg.org/image/q281ibkwn/
http://postimg.org/image/q9l5ores7/
http://postimg.org/image/g20bnhfvb/
http://postimg.org/image/ohd12icgn/

You got your ass pummeled, son. Tryna fight all limp armed and ****.

[Redworld96]

But Group B cant stay on the space forever, can they? What would happend if Group B come back to Earth?

[Vicky82]

But Group B cant stay on the space forever, can they? What would happend if Group B come back to Earth?

They gone back 6 months and more or less going to be doing the same thing Group A did when they were in Space.

So when they get back to The Present and stop earth getting destroyed, Then the Group C will go back in time and do almost the same thing again.

[JH24]

They gone back 6 months and more or less going to be doing the same thing Group A did when they were in Space.

So when they get back to The Present and stop earth getting destroyed, Then the Group C will go back in time and do almost the same thing again.

Wouldn't this mean it creates an infinite loop? With a "new" group of turtles travelling into the past with a "new" Fugitoid again? Or doesn't it work that way?

[ToTheNines]

... but the Earth wasn't destroyed, they have no reason to go back and get the BHG. Plus I thought the only reason groul A traveled time was because of their proximity to the black hole.

[Vicky82]

Wouldn't this mean it creates an infinite loop? With a "new" group of turtles travelling into the past with a "new" Fugitoid again? Or doesn't it work that way?

Well there no rules in Time Travel so it's probably does create an infinite loop.

[NinjaPug]

That makes no sense. The mission of Group A was completed. The Triceratons and the black hole generator were both destroyed before Group B left. They wouldn't be coming back to a time where they needed to help the previous group. Why would they go back in time to change that?

[TigerClaw]

Why would this new space trip be 6 months? None of what happened in the first trip would take place on this one.

This was just an easy way to do away with a second set of characters. More than likely we never see them again.
I bet we will in a later episode during season 5, eventually those Turtles will become home sick and return back to Earth.

[Vicky82]

... but the Earth wasn't destroyed, they have no reason to go back and get the BHG. Plus I thought the only reason groul A traveled time was because of their proximity to the black hole.

I know it wasn't destroyed but they are going back 6 months to where the Triceratons are looking for the Black Hole Generator and will use it on earth.

[Autbot_Benz]

Poor David Tennant he sure does die a lot in stuff :P As A Doctor Who fan I was ready for it.

[Vicky82]

That makes no sense. The mission of Group A was completed. The Triceratons and the black hole generator were both destroyed before Group B left. They wouldn't be coming back to a time where they needed to help the previous group. Why would they go back in time to change that?

They are not changing anything they basically going to be doing the same thing Group A did.

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

I just love a happy ending. :)

Splinter and the Mutanimals reunite with the Turtles.

Fugitoid sacrificing his life for the turtles, Splinter, April, Casey and the Mutanimals, just like in the movie, "The Iron Giant." I hope Fugitoid returns soon.

[NinjaPug]

I know it wasn't destroyed but they are going back 6 months to where the Triceratons are looking for the Black Hole Generator and will use it on earth.

Why? The point in time that they left saw the Triceratons destroyed. There's no need to go back.

[Autbot_Benz]

The Space Arc is just

http://i65.tinypic.com/291orhy.jpg

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Ugghhh! This episode is another example of why I hate time travel in any form of media!

[Powder]

Crap episode. The third act was really good, mostly due to Splinter beating the crap outta Shredder and the past/future tag team vs. Mozar, but the ending was dumb. The six of them just run off with Fugitoid willy nilly for no reason? Aren't they gonna want to come back at some point? What's the point of this "wonderous journey" if there's no BHG pieces to locate?

Then Honeycutt's death was awesome and emotional, but they couldn't commit...

And yeah, the first two acts were a total waste of time. Complete with forced drama, out of character bufoonery and reused season 3 footage.

And now Bishop's appearance in Annihilation Earth retroactively makes no sense. Why would he go to Earth without contacting Honeycutt?

I don't feel quite as strongly but you hit all the right points. I liked aspects of it, but yeah...

I sure hope they have plans for that second set of characters, 'cause if not, that whole ending was pointless. Having a universe with past & future TMNT existing simultaneously is a super cool concept to me, I'll be really miffed if they open that door without walking through it.

[Vicky82]

Someone on Tumblr said it could be the Grandfather Paradox but I don't know what that means.

But anyway I found this maybe some people want to read it, hopefully it makes sense.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time-travel/

[matteso586]

1) Who here thought that the space gang will fade once the Heart of Darkness is destroyed? 2) Too bad Zeno didn't make an appearance. 3) April mentioned her father, so Kirby is not forgotten. 4) Would it be a bit better if past Fugitoid gets confused about the two sets of Turtles, and that Earth isn't destroyed? 5) Do you think that what's left of Fugitoid will be voiced by the 11th Doctor?

[thundermaster612]

This is the way I see it

Lets say the Space Turtles, April, Casey and Fugitoid are Group A and the past Turtles April, Casey and Fugitoid are Group B.

Group A saw the earth destroyed and go back 6 months in time to stop the Triceratons destroy earth again.

Group A return to earth help Group B to stop earth getting destroyed. Group A Fugitoid sacrifice himself to destroy the Black Hole Generator.

Because they’ve stopped earth getting destroyed it caused a paradox or a time loop so when Group B Fugitoid comes to earth he will know whats happened and will have to take Group B on time travel adventure and do the same thing again to make sure earth doesn’t get destroyed again.

So Group B become the new Space Turtles, April and Casey.

Group A will become the new present Turtles, April and Casey and continue on as normal.

That's exactly what I was thinking

[TigerClaw]

What I can see happening is the past Turtles while in space, will encounter Armaggon and Lord Dregg if they are still alive, Those two would know them, but these Turtles do not, same for Mona Lisa and Sal Commander.

If Mona Lisa comes across the past Raph, this Raph would have seen her for the first time, while she would know him.

If she ends up in Earth meeting the present Turtles, She would be like, "how did you guys end up on earth so quickly?"

Present Day Raph would explain to Mona Lisa that you just met my past self.

Present Raph would probably tell Mona Lisa to spend time with the past Raph, and the past Turtles while they are in space, and keep them safe from any harm.

Obviously she can't be with two versions of Raph at the same time.

[The Happy One]

The Space Arc is just

http://i65.tinypic.com/291orhy.jpg

Yeah, basically.

In fact, to save myself from a headache I have just decided to let this be till Ciro or Brandon decides to explain this abomination.

I mean, basic 5.5/10.

Leo got on my nerves and everything was pretty much predictable.

Like I said a while back: this show, a.) Only ever seems to believe that Leo is the single soul that is capable of having constant development and is the only turtle that puts the greater good above his own. I mean, he's practically suicidal now withwith how easily they make this kid want to end his own life for everyone else.

And b.) Like, Gold said, this show is only really good for 'in-the-moment' things. Better known as shock factor.
But they can never commit to it.


And it sucks, really. This show is good- it has a lot of potential, too. And when it reaches that potential- as it has with a number of awesome episodes- then I'll be content, as I was in then past.

See, they had their chance...they had their moment to redeem this season so far and they blew it.

Not, particularly, Leo's constant sacrificial tendency...but it was just the end. Everything went out of character in an instant. It was like...what?

But, hey, quick fixes will do that. And slightly subpar direction in writing does all the same.:roll:

It's a shame...but we have the other half to get done in which I pray will make a whole lot more sense.

But, hey, the best this arc gave us was Fugitiod, David Tennant as Fugitiod and....um...a better appreciation for New York??

[Vicky82]

Why? The point in time that they left saw the Triceratons destroyed. There's no need to go back.

The whole thing has caused a Backwards Causation or a Infinite Loop so they just keep repeating the whole thing and keep time stable.

[Utrommaniac]

And lo, did the Doctor Who and Back to the Future fans begin screaming at how this return to the original timeline worked out and the meeting of themselves.

Let it be known that you don't do a time travel plot like this while you have a former Doctor in your cast, because he was probably screaming too.

I mean, sure, the turtles have to leave with the Fugitoid in order to keep stable, but what would they even be doing with that time since they're not in a state of urgency. What happens when they come back? Do they just take turns going on adventures with two different versions for infinity?

Why did Fugitoid need to come to them if the Earth wasn't in danger? Did Bishop alert him to trouble and it was too late to tell him everything was okay before he arrived?

[Aaronardo]

And even then, the Fugitoid sure didn't react to the fact that the black hole generator was destroyed and the Earth was saved very much. Like, wasn't that the whole point of him going there? But, no, he just gets right off the ship all "oh hello people I've never met that I shall now call friends, wanna get in my spaceship and go on a trip into space for absolutely no reason?"

Weak. Incredibly weak.

[Utrommaniac]

It's like they realized they had a loop to close and six extra teenagers to get out of the way, so they panicked coming up with a solution.

[NinjaPug]

The whole thing has caused a Backwards Causation time loop so they just keep repeating the whole thing and keep time stable.

Haha...did you read that on tumbler too?

Time travel is tricky to write but they went with a kid-friendly way of dealing with the extra set (which is fine - it's a kids show) instead of something that made more sense.

[Vicky82]

Haha...did you read that on tumbler too?

No I didn't actually, I googled it

Time travel is tricky to write but they went with a kid-friendly way of dealing with the extra set (which is fine - it's a kids show) instead of something that made more sense.

Yeah that's how I see it, they had to make it easier for kids to understand.

[TigerClaw]

Haha...did you read that on tumbler too?

Time travel is tricky to write but they went with a kid-friendly way of dealing with the extra set (which is fine - it's a kids show) instead of something that made more sense.
Time Travel is complicated, Where was Renet during all of this, She could've popped up somewhere and try to fix things.

[Fang Wolf]

This EP was awesome. :tlove:

In the fight I saw splinter use many of *kind* Aikido techniques on Shredder.
+ touch pressure points. Since I saw that Shredder could not move after the battle.

[TLP]

Ok, now THAT was awesome.

I just wish there were consequences. If Splinter still were to have been killed by Shredder, thus giving the turtles enough motivation to finally take him down, that would have sold it for me. As it stands, it's a solid 8/10. :)

[neatoman]

And to the shock of nobody above the age of 3, Splinter came back to life... And the Fugitoid...

Nah but all seriousness, it was nice to see the space arc end.

[JH24]

That was a great mid-season finale. Only the ending I felt the writers didn't know exactly what to do. There's no way the turtles, nor April or Casey, would simply leave their Sensei and Earth behind like that. I would rather have seen the timelines either merging, or one of the two turtle groups "disappearing." The "solution" in this episode felt more like an easy way out.

Having said that, I really enjoyed the episode. I felt sorry for the Professor and how he was treated. Leo's anger was surprising, but in a way the pressure of being a leader, the constant failures in retrieving the generators, and the Fugitoid's confession was likely just too much for him to wrap his mind around and pushed him over the edge.

The lack of trust the turtles had in Fugitoid was a bit surprising as well, consdering how much they've all been through. But it did make for some good tension.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Seeing Splinter vs Shredder, More depth added to fugitoids character and in general the whole finale to season 3 re-enacted with all the returning characters were the highlights to this episode that I thoroughly enjoyed.

I do think it was a bit corny to have the past turtles to just go with the past fugitoid for a space adventure for no reason other than "its awesome."

I think it would've been better if Renet came and merged the two sets of turtles together since the past fugitoid had no reason to come while giving us more of Renet who hasn't been since the episode about Mikey's mind I think.

However, from a marketing standpoint, this sort of twist could potentially give us space adventures for Half-Shell Heroes or even a completely new spin off series where the turtles and fugitoid have adventures in space. Plus, who said the past turtles won't appear ever again in this show? If the Fred Wolf turtles are appearing again sometime later in season 5, I can't imagine these versions not making an appearance sometime in the future.

Great episode in my opinion. I give it a 9/10

[TigerClaw]

That was a great mid-season finale. Only the ending I felt the writers didn't know exactly what to do. There's no way the turtles, nor April or Casey, would simply leave their Sensei and Earth behind like that. I would rather have seen the timelines either merging, or one of the two turtle groups "disappearing." The "solution" in this episode felt more like an easy way out.

Having said that, I really enjoyed the episode. I felt sorry for the Professor and how he was treated. Leo's anger was surprising, but in a way the pressure of being a leader, the constant failures in retrieving the generators, and the Fugitoid's confession was likely just too much for him to wrap his mind around and pushed him over the edge.

The lack of trust the turtles had in Fugitoid was a bit surprising as well, consdering how much they've all been through. But it did make for some good tension.
If that last scene was any indication, we haven't seen the last of the Fugitoid, no doubt his head will fall back to Earth, and Donnie finds him and rebuild him.

[xenopokemon]

If that last scene was any indication, we haven't seen the last of the Fugitoid, no doubt his head will fall back to Earth, and Donnie finds him and rebuild him.

Actually I doubt it. As much as I like Fugitoid, the Earth does rotate on an axis. Fugitoid's head may or may not survive entering the atmosphere. Even if it does, there is a minute chance that it will land back in New York. Or Northampton :lol:

[TigerClaw]

Actually I doubt it. As much as I like Fugitoid, the Earth does rotate on an axis. Fugitoid's head may or may not survive entering the atmosphere. Even if it does, there is a minute chance that it will land back in New York. Or Northampton :lol:
Anything is possible in this universe.

[victory_angel]

In defence of the ending, I didn't see a time loop. But rather an alternate storyline.

In AE Fugatoid collects the Turtles when it's too late to save the world and takes them into space so they can help him prevent Earth's destruction.

The act of taking them back in time six months creates Tempus-Copies (or Time-Copies), of the Turtles that live the Turtle's lives until AE occurs. This time, the Turtles defeat the Heart of Darkness and prevent Earths Destruction.

But as Fugatoid was summoned by Bishop to help originally, there is a temporal clone of him as well. But as there is no need to go six months in time. The Fugatoids arrival is a lot more relaxed. Leo suggests they go into space because the pressure to save Earth aside, exploring space was an enjoyable experience. So now the Tempus-Copies are able to really enjoy and experience space at their leisure rather then feel like the fate of their entire world is on their shoulders.

Thus creating a plausible Spin-off following the adventures of these Turtles in space.

or at the very least an expanded universe for Fanfiction writers.

Actually I doubt it. As much as I like Fugitoid, the Earth does rotate on an axis. Fugitoid's head may or may not survive entering the atmosphere. Even if it does, there is a minute chance that it will land back in New York. Or Northampton :lol:

They will get back to him eventually when the writers feel it would be a good time to bring him up again. However in Revenge of the Triceraton's there is that point where Raph is encouraging Donnie to rebuild the Fugatoid and says "You are smart enough to build a robot like Metalhead." Before he smiles and leans his head to the side for a moment.

And in the 2k3 when Fugatoid's robot body was rebuild on earth, it was still rudimentary as Earth tech is primitive when compared to the rest of the universe. So if anything Fugatoid is likey going to reconverted into metalhead.

[oldmanwinters]

So... will the next episode go back to using the old theme song sequence?

[kelligrafie]

So... will the next episode go back to using the old theme song sequence?

YES PLEASE.

And the animators will have to get used to doing an extra half minute of animation to account for all the talking Leo does before the song starts.

[Vicky82]

Yeah I expect we will see the old or new intro.

I'm just glad the space arc is over, i've never been a fan of space and time travel but It was great to see the Turtles in space visiting different planets, new villains and new friends but it was starting to drag and bore me and I also missed New York, Splinter, ICK, The Mutanimals.

Hopefully now the last 12 episodes will just focus on the turtles fighting Shredder and his henchman, hopefully find out whats happened to Karai and hopefully this mutants vs humans story will be good.

I don't want to see any more alien villians, the Kraang ect, in any more episodes this season. I just hope the season final isn't going to be another alien invasion but as Season 5 starts off with the episode Scrolls of the Demodragon hopefully the season 4 final will be a lot different.

[MikeandRaph87]

Here is IGN's review of the event episode.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/24/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-earths-last-stand-review

Now humans vs mutants.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The thing about Splinter though....
Does this mean that the news on Splinter's fate was false? We've read somewhere that they revealed that he was no longer going to be responsible for the turtles' training due to his death but since they went back in time to prevent his death, was this all a joke?

[Vicky82]

The thing about Splinter though....
Does this mean that the news on Splinter's fate was false? We've read somewhere that they revealed that he was no longer going to be responsible for the turtles' training due to his death but since they went back in time to prevent his death, was this all a joke?

Don't know, maybe he dies in the season 4 final or maybe it's because he's getting old and hurting more he's probably going to take a back seat and let Leo do all the training.

[Ursalink]

I haven't been so nervous for an episode of TMNT in years.

+ Thank Godness!! Splinter and the Earth were saved!! I wonder what made different the result this time. I don't complain at all, but what made Splinter to avoid Shredder's attack this time? The turles didn't have time to warm him. Maybe the visit from the crossover's events made him suspect or something? Anyway, so glad this was avoided.

+ The time solution for the double Turtles, April, Casey and Fugitoid was quite lame. I mean, following traditions from other time travel stories, the future and past characters should have been merged into one, turning the whole thing into a whole new timeline. I'm so confused now. I guess in the future, the group who left Earth this time could return somehow. I think it would be interesting.

+ It's official, the Shredder is a miserable and stinking son of a ****!!!! So, are you telling me he left the Earth being destroyed, with Karai in it, just to have revenge of Yoshi, and now he dares to call Splinter a monster?!!!!!!!! Just like Splinter said, "The only monster here is you!!!".

+ I highly doubt Tigerclaw had stayed with Shredder if he knew what happened the first time. Now that I think of it, how is it possible he stayed with the Shredder. I mean, Spinter wasn't killed this time, but Tigerclaw should have seen that Shredder was willing to left the Earth die (including himself) just for his insane revenge. I hope he finally change sides in the future somehow, possibly thanks to April showing him the events of the first time with her psychic powers; making him realize the Shredder is completely insane.

+ Well, if the events prior the Heart of Darkness remain the same, I suppose we could say Kraang Subprime and Kraang Prime are gone when the Triceratons destroyed the Technodrome; but since they survived to imminent death before, I highly doubt it. I doubt Mozar and the other Triceratons died too, even with what we saw. Like they say, "Bad habits die hard".

+ I want to believe Bishop survived too. We saw him being shot in this version too, but since the Kraang/Utroms seem strong enough to survive a lot of things, I guess he could survive to this.

+ Well, I don't know what it's coming now, but I hope we will see Karai again, possibly restored to the good side again. I really hate they left us with that cliffhanger last season.

By the way, LeotheLateBloomer, I suppose they were talking about the time the turtles would spend in the space. The Fugitoid was the one who trained him with the holograms.

[Ninja Tiptup]

I've been losing interest in this space arc for a while now and am glad it's over but what the shell did I just watch?

There are so many problems here I barely know where to start but Splinter simply avoids getting stabbed this time? Just cuz. The turtles didn't really change that so it was just another possibility that played out. I guess I can swallow that but how much better would it have been for one of the A) the turtles to actually save Splinter or B) for their attempts to save him to fail just the same (and yes I'm sure they wouldn't go that route but it would have been interesting to see).

Fugitoid shows up and isn't phased by there not being a problem? I suppose he might be thinking that if he shows up and the earth is safe then his back-up plan must have worked and therefore he's not worried but that's still pretty questionable writing.

I think Leonardo's reaction to Fugitoid coming clean was pretty reasonable but flying off on his own was more boneheaded than usual. Still that's a minor issue.

Sure those 6 would love to go enjoy a space adventure but the way they just left is pretty messed up. I agree with folks saying Renet should have come to fix this or the blackhole generator being destroyed could have caused the timelines to merge or the space 6 to vanish. They even could have had the current space adventurers go off with the other Fugitoid and make a spin-off with them. Maybe they did it to maintain the time loop but they shouldn't have to go back in time since the job is done. I could probably forgive this decision if they do something interesting with having a second set of turtles and maybe eventually has Renet fix situation but for now we can only guess what they'll do.

Pretty unfortunate that Tiger Claw's back to square one but I'm not at all surprised.

I do hope the Fugitoid head floating in space leads to him returning.

As of this moment the whole thing seems really pointless though I wouldn't be surprised if the season finale brings back the space characters and the other 6 for yet another "save the earth" finale.

Here's hoping future episodes sort this mess out.

[CyberCubed]

So our Turtles are living 6 months in the past on Earth while the past Turtles are now traveling in space.

I'm sure during the Season 4 finale we'll see both sets of Turtles again and maybe Renet or Fugitoid will fix the time gap. You guys worry over nothing.

[TMNTInsighter]

I haven't been so nervous for an episode of TMNT in years.

+ Thank Godness!! Splinter and the Earth were saved!! I wonder what made different the result this time. I don't complain at all, but what made Splinter to avoid Shredder's attack this time? The turles didn't have time to warm him. Maybe the visit from the crossover's events made him suspect or something? Anyway, so glad this was avoided.

.....

+ It's official, the Shredder is a miserable and stinking son of a ****!!!! So, are you telling me he left the Earth being destroyed, with Karai in it, just to have revenge of Yoshi, and now he dares to call Splinter a monster?!!!!!!!! Just like Splinter said, "The only monster here is you!!!".

...

1) Leonardo actually did warn him. Go back and look.
2) Actually, as far as everyone knows, she drowned at the end of "The Fourfold Trap." We may know she's alive but not everyone else does.

[THGhost]

Pretty decent episode, so glad to have the Turtles back on Earth and reunited with Splinter. It's been a long time coming.

I forget, is Karai still a snake? If so, maybe the Turtles can finally get back to saving her? :P

[Zulithe]

I'm glad the arc is done, I didn't dislike it as much as some people though. There were some cool encounters and some nice changes of environment. And I like Fugitoid and the space tech stuff.

But man it's GREAT being back on Earth! Hopefully with some new more ninja and mutant madness soon. And lots of Pizza.

Just in time for the movie, too. Now the new episodes will match up with the film environments more.

It wrapped up the story threads nicely but left some great threads for more adventures in space. I hope this show gets to live long enough for us to do more wacky stuff like this arc.

Curious to see how thing swill go with Shredder and his crew after his defeat. He's gonna have to crank things up to 11 now.

Fugitoid's return is clearly setup, so that will be really interesting... hopefully not for another season or so though, hah. Let's explore more of Earth for a while.

[matteso586]

1) Leonardo actually did warn him. Go back and look.
2) Actually, as far as everyone knows, she drowned at the end of "The Fourfold Trap." We may know she's alive but not everyone else does.

Have you forgotten what Splinter said Annihilation Earth? They searched for her, but is gone. Yet they somehow know that she's alive, and vanished from the city.

[GoldMutant]

I figure now would be a good time to discuss season 4's space arc (no Cube, it's not a critically praised work of art :P). It just feels... there. There just wasn't enough attention to make it enjoyable personally and only served as retaining the same progress every time. To make it easier, I'll break it down in style to the Youtuber Fawful's Minion, Good, Bad... Disappointing:

The Good:

1. Animation: If there's one thing this series has going for it, it's the animation continuously improves. Environments are well varied yeah, but I'm talking as just the background and at times the creatures. The space background itself is gorgeous to look at, pure eye candy. Additionally, the creatures were nearly varied in over the top looks such as Beyond the Known Universe or Wyrm as prime examples.

However, a personal issue I take is just the look of some of the planets, specifically in Moons of Thalos 3 and the recent Ever-Burning Fire. It might be me, but the animation just felt lackluster in comparison as video games and other shows have had that colorful variety. Thalos felt too dark to contrast with the zaniness of the season's opening and Ever-Burning Fire didn't have enough color, opting for a more cliche look. Other than that, the planets were well done for the most part and on that alone is the standout part of the show by far.

2. Mozar and the Fugitoid: Although the Triceratons leave a lot to be desired, the character of Mozar was rather interesting, especially near the end of the arc where he descends into madness. His brutal outlook, sinister voice by Michael Dorn, and blood-lust made him one of the best villains of the series. He didn't do too much, but left a significant impact as one of the Turtles' deadliest foes to date.

As for Fugitoid, what can I say that hasn't been said? Voiced by David Tennant, known as the Doctor himself, he was brilliant. Maintaining likability and a comedic charm that bests Michelangelo himself, Fugitoid is the highlight of the season. While his demise was inevitable and predictable too, he easily made the story watchable. Really would have loved more to be done with him, but for the most part he was a joy. Outside these main things though, the rest of the season falls flat.

The Bad:

1. The pacing: Identically to Northampton last season, the pacing felt rather jerky in terms of writing. It's a continuous tug of war for the Turtles where they get the pieces of the Heart of Darkness only to lose it immediately to the Triceratons and briefly Dregg. Each episode feels too condensed in story; I'm well aware Peter DiCicco brings up it's hard to script a 22 minute episode, but that's no excuse for such poor decisions.

Besides Evil of Dregg, the episode I can't stand from the arc the most, let's take a solid episode. A good example is Revenge of the Triceratons, an episode concerning with Donatello struggling to be as smart as Fugitoid while dealing with a Triceraton ambush. Certainly a good idea after Fugitoid is knocked out, but then we have space gremlins to contend with; instead of balancing it though, Don's plot is handled entirely off screen. When compared to a character like Iron-Man or Spider-Man, we understand how these guys face their issues. Whether Tony building his armor or If This Be My Destiny...! with Peter desperately trying to escape a water pipe on him to save his Aunt May.

Obviously, it's a poor comparison between comics and movies to television which is understandable, but we've gotten to know Don by now. We know he's the smart one, the fellow with a way for machines. Despite it, I don't understand rushing a narrative for off screen treatment.

2. Out of character behavior- Raphael I'll get to later, but literally everyone was out of character this season with the exceptions of Michelangelo and even April. Casey is the prime suspect here, voicing juvenile behavior with his catchphrases and not giving a damn. Leo with this episode too being irrational even with motivation, Don not getting enough screen time to formulate thoughts.... the list is endless. I thought The Croaking, Clash of the Mutanimals, and Turtles in Time were bad, but at least they were spaced out. Such rather annoying writing that doesn't understand why we like these characters as a team.

Disappointing:

1. The reinterpretations: :ohwell: I might have praised Mozar and Fugitoid as excellent additions, these new versions of the characters leave a lot to be desired. Over the course of this arc, we got the aforementioned Lord Dregg and Mona Lisa; also the animation debut of Bellybomb and Armaggon and a brief stint with the Neutrinos. I've already discussed the Neutrinos being generic, lifeless pawns and Bellybomb, though here for one episode, is alright. Wyrm while also rather not needed gave a rather entertaining episode, but how does the rest of the cast fair?

For starters, Dregg was a pitiful secondary antagonist with a silly motive to take revenge. It wasn't specified in the slightest on why he wants vengeance outside it's cost. Sure enough, he does next to nothing this whole arc outside threatening the Salamanderians' home in The Evil of Dregg, the ambush in Cosmic Ocean, and a short term alliance in Ever-Burning Fire. He did nothing outside it for a shallow motive; at the very least, he could have been a worthwhile foe as he was in OT right? Well, if being reduced to whining in his last appearance before freezing is any indication, what do you think? :roll: I wanted to like Dregg, but he was a waste of time.

Next up, the time-traveling shark of the Archie Comics, Armaggon. While his design wasn't the greatest, I thought he was solid... at least in his debut. Barring my bias towards Ron Perlman, Armaggon just didn't seem as much a blast afterwards. Not only becoming irritating in his final appearance in Evil of Dregg but just a weaker Tiger Claw in terms of character and personality. Personally, Armaggon felt the best of these new introductions but that isn't saying much. As for Mona, well.....

2. Raphael and Mona- Do I even need to bother explaining why this sucks? Look, I thought Mona Lisa was a nice addition with Zelda Williams' voice and design, but other than that she's just not impressive. This pairing has been one of the absolute low points of the series: they meet in Moons of Thalos 3 and kiss here, kiss several times in War for Dimension X! and once more, Evil of Dregg reduced Raph further as a shallow caricature. Despite Raph having a motive for liking her, the duo are reduced to kissy face, getting old fast. Add in the line where Raph says he trusts her the most out of anyone in the galaxy and there you have a recipe for pure shipping fodder. :roll:

I don't get it, what the hell happened during this arc? It should have been a grand ol time, an opportunity to deal with so much while also balancing out with fun. Instead, it's a prolonged storyline that could have been done in about 10 episodes or less, easily could have been fixed. Just lacks immense heart and an overall disappointing story. I wanted to like this, I really did, but it did it's job of making me want to give up on the series. Hopefully, New York improves on this. :ohwell:

[OrangeNinja1987]

I hope the season picks up now that they're back in New York. While I do hate that an entire team of turtles who ARE the main characters (technically, I guess. It's hard to say.) just spontaneously left on a space adventure, presumably never to be seen again, let's just forget that happened.
The latter half of season 3, after Northampton, had some of my favorite episodes of the series and I hope season 4 can do that as well. I've always loved the concept of humans vs. mutants, which I hear is the story for the next 13 episodes, so I seriously hope they're good.
And, while I REALLY wish it never had happened, I hope they do something with the second team of turtles that went to space so that there's not a humongous problem ignored. I mean, those turtles are the exact same people as the main characters, with the same personality, memories, motivations, and rights, etc., as the future turtles, but they just get shipped off to space?! I hate it more each time I think about it. Anyway, I'm rambling now. Bye!

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Who's excited for the humans vs mutants/City at War arc after a hiatus? :)

[Powder]

Let's stop calling it an arc. It'll probably be one episode & then you'll all freak out about "lies".

[TMNTInsighter]

Looking back on it, the decision to hold Fugitoid's secret regarding the BHG until the end of the arc may have been an attempt at making things come full circle but with only 22 minutes, it's robbed of any room for development. Maybe if it was revealed earlier...

[CyberCubed]

I still don't even understand what Leonardo was trying to do in this episode. Its the only odd part of the episode for me. All he did was rush into a ship, shoot down a bunch of Triceraton ships, then get blown up. What was his plan?

[TMNTInsighter]

Have you forgotten what Splinter said Annihilation Earth? They searched for her, but is gone. Yet they somehow know that she's alive, and vanished from the city.

That was just hopeful thinking on his part. You can just tell by the tone in his voice that he doesn't believe it that much himself.

[GoldMutant]

I still don't even understand what Leonardo was trying to do in this episode. Its the only odd part of the episode for me. All he did was rush into a ship, shoot down a bunch of Triceraton ships, then get blown up. What was his plan?

I brought this up earlier, but I'll say it again:

Leo's guilt caused him to snap at Fugitoid as he was indirectly responsible for Earth's destruction. If he didn't make the Heart of Darkness and sell it, this would have prevented Splinter being killed (it might have happened though at a later date, but not here). Emotions cause us to snap; Leo I'd assume was going to fight off the Triceratons alone as he let his own judgement blind him. It's an out of character moment though.

[Aska_Badoura]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but there can't be any more time travel after the black hole generator is destroyed, because Fugitoid said that time travel would not be possible again at that point. I'm pretty sure his past self would be able to tell if a time jump had already happened, (it would presumably leave an imprint in some measurable quantity, even if it didn't actually happen this time around) and he would know not to try that. So there's no loop to worry about.

And running off with someone you don't know seems a lot easier when your own future self is vouching for them. :P Eh, I didn't think much of that, but at least it got rid of them. :tconfuse:

[saber16]

A pretty good way to end the space arc on. Though, regarding Shredder's botched murder attempt, I was personally hoping future Leo would have blocked the attack catching Shredder's blades with his his own, I would have also liked it if his underlings realized what he was about to do, creating tension between Shredder and his followers. Another thing, last week during the end of the episode, Mozar was informed of something intersting which I guessed was video or something of the Turtles on Earth, which I was wrong about. That would have been another intersting idea, Mozar finds out about the past Turtles and orders his men to kill them, thus wiping out the future Turtles from time. That would have been cool seeing the future Turtles guarding their past selves, making sure nothing happens to them.
As for the past heroes and past Fugetoid, I can see it going two ways:
1. The writers expect us to forget about it, "Their having fun in space, the future Turtles are back on Earth, everything is good so what's to complain about?"
2. Doctor Who/Star Trek inspired spin-off series. More TMNT means more toys, so how can the resist?

[Ursalink]

Technically, time travel should be possible again now. I mean, a black hole attracts everything to itself, even time itself (although I don't understand how is that even possible). But now that the black hole has been erased from existence, then there's nothing now to stop people to make a time travel on Earth again.

[aliena]

Worse than I thought it would be. Could Leo be more out of character? The other turtles should have disappeared once the space ones showed up, but I did like the turtles being all together though.

Did anyone see what happened to Chompy or whatever that other space turtle was called. I thought he was on Raph's shoulder right before they were ousted. I thought for sure Slash would see him and ask Raph if he was his replacement. But I'm not sure where he ended up. It would be cool if he was on the show from now on.

[Rukitron]

I hope the writers remember there's a floating online Fugitoid head.

RIP:
- Metal Head
- Timothy (still just a popsicle)

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Worse than I thought it would be. Could Leo be more out of character? The other turtles should have disappeared once the space ones showed up, but I did like the turtles being all together though.

Did anyone see what happened to Chompy or whatever that other space turtle was called. I thought he was on Raph's shoulder right before they were ousted. I thought for sure Slash would see him and ask Raph if he was his replacement. But I'm not sure where he ended up. It would be cool if he was on the show from now on.


Without having seen it yet, I couldn't say where he ended up. But I think that would PROBABLY be a BAD idea, given how big his mom was! Which reminds me- was anyone else as surprised as I was to see a gender-bent Tokka in that ep? Not to mention turning him (her) into a giant fire-elemental Gamera ripoff? Not that it wasn't cool, mind you, but it was certainly- different....

[Ursalink]

I forgot to mention something. I personally liked when both teams attacked Mohzar at the end, each member teaming up with its counterpart. First the Aprils (ladies first, after all), then the Mikeys, then the Donnies, then the Leos, then the Raphs and finally, the Caseys. Kinda weird Casey called his past self "punk".

[Ashwolf]

was anyone else as surprised as I was to see a gender-bent Tokka in that ep? Not to mention turning him (her) into a giant fire-elemental Gamera ripoff? Not that it wasn't cool, mind you, but it was certainly- different....

actually im pretty sure that in Soto, both tokka and rahzar were female

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Disappointed in this episode. Past Turtles just run onboard a spaceship with a robot they know nothing about? Kinda lame, there is no time loop.

I guarantee that they will never mention the past turtles, who are now is space, ever again.

I'm also confused as to what happened with Splinter and Shredder. How did Splinter know to block shredder's attack? I'm assuming from his conversation with Leonardo in "Trans-Dimensional Turtles" but some clarification on that would've been nice.

[victory_angel]

Worse than I thought it would be. Could Leo be more out of character? The other turtles should have disappeared once the space ones showed up, but I did like the turtles being all together though.

Did anyone see what happened to Chompy or whatever that other space turtle was called. I thought he was on Raph's shoulder right before they were ousted. I thought for sure Slash would see him and ask Raph if he was his replacement. But I'm not sure where he ended up. It would be cool if he was on the show from now on.


Leo is a very driven character. And when he has a goal he wants to see it completed in full. With high stress goals such as saving the world from imminent destruction, he does have a tendency to not listen to his brothers. And fly in the face of his own morals to make sure the mission is completed.

[Ninjinister]

actually im pretty sure that in Soto, both tokka and rahzar were female

What gave you that idea?

[Vicky82]

What I don't get is that some people were calling the turtles the future turtles but they never went to the future, they went back in time.

So our Turtles are living 6 months in the past on Earth while the past Turtles are now traveling in space.


No our turtles were in the past but now they are in present.

[Ashwolf]

What gave you that idea?

in the movie when they 1st presented 2 shredder be4 they r mutagen doused, its stated that they r female

or least somewhere in the movie, thought it was stated, skimmed through and cant seem 2 find it atm but thought 4 sure that it stated at least 1 of them as female

[ToTheNines]

in the movie when they 1st presented 2 shredder be4 they r mutagen doused, its stated that they r female

or least somewhere in the movie, thought it was stated, skimmed through and cant seem 2 find it atm but thought 4 sure that it stated at least 1 of them as female

I've seen SotO close to 100 time in my life. Pretty sure you're mistaken.

[srmff]

I think, as someone else has said, that Splinter was able to block Shredder's attack because Leo had warned him just in time for him to take notice. After all he is a ninja. Ninja like reflexes and all.

The other set of turtles thing doesn't really bother me. To me, it would have seemed stupid if they just 'magically' merged together. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. It doesn't bother me if it doesn't follow the 'traditional rules of time travel' because it's fiction and time travel has never happened and people don't know how it would work. People can only theorise.

More than likely they had no problem going with the Fugitoid because their own selves vouched for him. I mean if the others thought he was a good guy, I don't see why the same people wouldn't feel the same way once they get to know him. The only thing stopping them is missing their family and home. Unlike what some others have said, there's no reason to tell their family where they're going because the space versions will be on Earth now and their families would know no different.

As for Leo doing something stupid and making a mistake, at least people can't call him a 'Marty Stu' anymore :roll:.

[victory_angel]

in the movie when they 1st presented 2 shredder be4 they r mutagen doused, its stated that they r female

or least somewhere in the movie, thought it was stated, skimmed through and cant seem 2 find it atm but thought 4 sure that it stated at least 1 of them as female

They stated rahzar and tokka were baby's not female

[Kingoji]

I think the ending was fine. It cleared the deck of excess plot threads neatly enough.

Remember, the Fugitoid that arrives to take the Past Turtles back in time had his plan to try and locate the pieces of the BHG *before* he actually collects them. His plan is still sound, and if anything his happening across two sets of Turtles upon arrival tells him that on some level he succeeds, so is vindicated in continuing his plan. The Past Turtles themselves may not have witnessed their home being destroyed or their master slain, but they ARE fully aware that without the Future Turtles help they would have failed. Mozar tells them as much. So they now go with Fugitoid, back into the past, to repeat this first half-season more or less and eventually *become* the Future Turtles without whom the world is doomed. The stakes are still there, just different.
If this is the last we see of them then I'm happy enough with this justification, because it's easy to reconcile that they either eventually become the Turtles we've been following all along or will be part of an alternate dimension temporally displaced from current events (when their six months is over and they are returned to the present, our Turtles will have moved on in their own temporal stream).

However, the above is simply a couple of options as to why we never need see them again. But for the same reason as the latter, if they chose to they could still bring them back. They could be an excuse to do a variation on the Image-Era Turtles, for example.

[THGhost]

I think Leo's plan was pretty clear.

Okay, seriously. Karai.

I forget, is Karai still a snake? If so, maybe the Turtles can finally get back to saving her? :P

[aliena]

Leo is a very driven character. And when he has a goal he wants to see it completed in full. With high stress goals such as saving the world from imminent destruction, he does have a tendency to not listen to his brothers. And fly in the face of his own morals to make sure the mission is completed.

That is true, I guess it was more of how angry he got with Fugitoid that bothered me. They had mere minutes to save the world and he's fuming angry about the fact that he created the black hole generator. I think I'd be like, dang I'm so mad at you, but we'll deal with that later. Let's save Earth first. That's how I feel Leo thinks most of the time, and maybe that's all in my head, but to just run off like that doesn't seem like him to me. I can see him sacrificing himself to save everyone though, and I did like the chewing out, and hug, he got from Raph as well.

[victory_angel]

That is true, I guess it was more of how angry he got with Fugitoid that bothered me. They had mere minutes to save the world and he's fuming angry about the fact that he created the black hole generator. I think I'd be like, dang I'm so mad at you, but we'll deal with that later. Let's save Earth first. That's how I feel Leo thinks most of the time, and maybe that's all in my head, but to just run off like that doesn't seem like him to me. I can see him sacrificing himself to save everyone though, and I did like the chewing out, and hug, he got from Raph as well.

He was upset because the Fugatoid just admitted to being the creator of the Heart of Darkness. Even though he wanted to find the pieces so he can destroy them and thus absolving his guilt. Wouldn't you be incenced if you had someone you trusted only to learn that person was responsible for the whole sale slaughter of your family and everyone you held dear.

[cryan]

I think, as someone else has said, that Splinter was able to block Shredder's attack because Leo had warned him just in time for him to take notice. After all he is a ninja. Ninja like reflexes and all.

The other set of turtles thing doesn't really bother me. To me, it would have seemed stupid if they just 'magically' merged together. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. It doesn't bother me if it doesn't follow the 'traditional rules of time travel' because it's fiction and time travel has never happened and people don't know how it would work. People can only theorise.

More than likely they had no problem going with the Fugitoid because their own selves vouched for him. I mean if the others thought he was a good guy, I don't see why the same people wouldn't feel the same way once they get to know him. The only thing stopping them is missing their family and home. Unlike what some others have said, there's no reason to tell their family where they're going because the space versions will be on Earth now and their families would know no different.

As for Leo doing something stupid and making a mistake, at least people can't call him a 'Marty Stu' anymore :roll:.

With the 2 teams showing up at the same time. Remember its a cartoon. Also anyone remember Bill and Ted's excellent adventure? Yes I am showing my age but in that movie you had the future Bill and Ted show up when Rufus loans the present 2 the phone booth. I would have loved it if Raph says to is past self "give my love to Mona Lisa". Past Raph says "who"? Future Raph "you'll see".

[Prototype]

That was...dramatic. Fugitoid comes clean and is unfairly rejected by his friends just before he honorably sacrifices himself and saves the world, that's just sad.

[THGhost]

Casey is the prime suspect here, voicing juvenile behavior with his catchphrases and not giving a damn.

He's been doing that since the very first episode he was in.

[ranger_scout]

I'm guessing the reason why the past turtles did not give their sensei and father a proper goodbye was because they thought it didn't matter since they were still technically with him. I still wonder if they'll ever come back.

[matteso586]

I'm guessing the reason why the past turtles did not give their sensei and father a proper goodbye was because they thought it didn't matter since they were still technically with him. I still wonder if they'll ever come back.

Maybe they will, and remind us of the game, Sam & Max: The Devil's Playhouse.

[miru]

Is it just me, or did I eat a bit of the 2003 series theme in the score?

[TMNTInsighter]

One of the reviewers I look up to (aside from my inspiration, Jay Allman from "The Animated Batman" site) is someone named Karley on tumblr and her reviews are usually well done--they certainly have more insight than Max at IGN. Her score is just short of Max's, largely for having the same problem we all have with how the past turtles and allies were dealt with, but hopefully what she's broken down will provide some new light (especially with regards to Leo) and some decent food for thought: http://all-things-tmnt.tumblr.com/post/143336122832/thoughts-on-earths-last-stand I'll be back some time tomorrow (hopefully) with a more coherent and in-depth look at my own thoughts in this episode (I swear I'll try to make it a fun read).

P.S. I'm thinking of taking over one of those anyone-else-think-season-1-was-better-esque threads with in-depth throwback reviews of the episodes in the season starting tomorrow. It's always nice to look back at the show after the season finale or during a long mid-season break (which I'll be doing this season and next) and see how we got here before we start watching new episodes again. Or perhaps I should make my own thread for it? Let me know. Good night y'all.

[victory_angel]

There was a post from Peter Di Cicco about that.

tmntvicky asked:
Really enjoyed Earth's Last Stand but I'm confused with the ending. When the 2nd Fugitoid takes the 2nd lot of Turtles, April, and Casey into his ship, do they go back in time?


Peter Di Cicco answers: Glad you liked it!

I’ve seen a lot of people asking this, so I thought I’d do a large post around it. Still, there’s so much awesome time travel theory debate going on, I kinda don’t want to confirm or dismiss any theories because they’re all so much fun and at this point any of them could potentially be true. So, I’m gonna be sneaky and posit some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff…

*SPOILERS ABOUND!*

There seem to be 3 general lines of thought about what happens to past Turtles and Fugitoid (let’s call these past versions “B-Turtles” and the ones we’ve been watching all this time “A-Turtles”) at the end of the episode. As events play out, just about everything that took place on Earth before the A-Turtles arrived occurred the same as it did the first time around.

For reference, also see the end of Back to the Future when (*SPOILER ALERT*) Marty gets back to 1985 ten minutes early and sees his past-self hop into the DeLorean and travel back to 1955 just as he did at the beginning of the movie.

Therefore, it is safe to assume that Fugitoid-B was contacted by Bishop to help the Turtles just as Fugitoid-A was at the end of Season 3. They are essentially the same Fugitoid from the same moment in time. Only this time, the Turtles with the help of Fugitoid-A defeated the Triceratons and destroyed the Black Hole Generator. What is an android to do? I propose 3 potential outcomes:

Time Reset

1) Fugitoid-B takes the Turtles, April, and Casey (B) back in time to close the time loop, explaining that they must stop the Triceratons like their A-selves did or there will be some kind of time paradox. Or, by simply travelling back in time, they “merge” with their timeline ‘A’ selves and repeat everything we witnessed all season.

Staying with the Back to the Future theory of time travel, (again, SPOILERS) in Part 2, after Marty destroys the Sports Almanac in 1955 and prevents the awful Biff-ruled alternate 1985 from happening, what would have motivated their past selves from earlier in the movie to travel back to 1955 in the first place? Presumably, this is time fixing itself.

Stable time loop

Or for stable time-loop theory, see Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure.

2) When Fugitoid/Turtles-B fly away from our team, they simply disappear, either ceasing to exist or merging with their past selves in order to close the time loop.

This is probably the most Doctor Who like reasoning as the TARDIS/Time Lords would routinely fix time paradoxes that would occur, especially when the Doctor meets his past self. See the end of “The Five Doctors” 25th anniversary special. (seriously, they all get into the same TARDIS at the end and go off into their own different timelines)


Worry Free Space Adventure

3) Fugitoid/Turtles/April/Casey-B leave the Earth, don’t go back in time because they don’t need to. The timeline in which the Triceratons succeed and destroy the Earth no longer exists or is impassible to them. So they simply go on to have awesome space adventures.



Headcanon Sub-Theory a. While going on space adventures, they team up with, I don’t know, let’s say Zeno, who may or may not have survived the Tri-Arena and escaped before the fleet was wiped out.

Headcanon Sub-Theory b. They end up in the “darkest timeline” in which the Triceratons succeeded, and they all have to grow goatees and become evil versions of themselves.

Headcanon Sub-Theory c. They go to hang out with Ahsoka Tano, wherever she is these days.

I won’t say which one I believe, but I think we can all agree that #3 is the one with most potential for fan fic, amirite? Enjoy!

**None of this is strictly canon. Please don’t be jerks to people who have different theories. Thank you.


Personally, I stand by #3 not because it has the most potential for fan-authors. But also works as a set up for a spin-off that centers on the turtles going to Space and just exploring.

One of the major problems in the previous space arc aside from the clunkiness of the plots. Is the constrained story line. Due to the need to find the pieces of the BHG, the Turtles didn't have any real time to explore and expand upon the setting and the various worlds.

And the few times they are exploring for the sake of exploring there were complaints that they (both the characters and writers) should not be dawdling about when there is an entire world that will be destroyed in a matter of months.

But without the fate of the world resting on their shoulders. There are so many stories, characters, and worlds that could be fleshed out in that in that setting.

For example, people have suggested Dr. Slumps fighting arena.

In other incarnations, the Turtles have visited D'hoonib itself.

There is also the Federation itself, they were only mentioned once in this series. But in other incarnations, the Federation including General Blanque have proven to be just as much of an enemy as the Triceraton's.

There's the potential of the Battle Nexus here.

The planet of the Turteoids and the Turtle Nebula among other things.

[Donatello19]

An alright episode...I'm just glad the space arc is over and done with. I absolutely hate the whole two sets of turtles thing though, to me that was just stupid. Not only that two sets exist, but that the original (?) set completely abandoned Splinter with no knowledge of what was going on or why, just to go on "space adventures". What exactly are they even doing in space since the BHG has been destroyed? Maybe it's just the whole "time travel is complicated" thing but I really cannot wrap my head around all of this.

Whatever, I'm just glad the space arc is over. I didn't hate the space episodes or anything but honestly, they started to feel like a chore to watch. I wasn't even looking forward to new episodes each week because the whole thing just felt very predictable in how it would end.

[IndigoErth]

Wow, sucks to be late to join the discussion, but worth the extra day and a half wait to see it. So in theory we could now be stuck in an endless Turtle loop, Turtles continuous going into space for different reasons each time. :tlol: Somehow I doubt the reasons for going this time will even be touched... Nice to be back to NYC again.

[miru]

Mozar had some funny lines here. And I did appreciate te flight choreography. Seeing M. Brains again was so cool, and I liked when he was knocked over.

[Vicky82]

There was a post from Peter Di Cicco about that.






Time Reset

1) Fugitoid-B takes the Turtles, April, and Casey (B) back in time to close the time loop, explaining that they must stop the Triceratons like their A-selves did or there will be some kind of time paradox. Or, by simply travelling back in time, they “merge” with their timeline ‘A’ selves and repeat everything we witnessed all season.

Staying with the Back to the Future theory of time travel, (again, SPOILERS) in Part 2, after Marty destroys the Sports Almanac in 1955 and prevents the awful Biff-ruled alternate 1985 from happening, what would have motivated their past selves from earlier in the movie to travel back to 1955 in the first place? Presumably, this is time fixing itself.

Stable time loop

Or for stable time-loop theory, see Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure.

2) When Fugitoid/Turtles-B fly away from our team, they simply disappear, either ceasing to exist or merging with their past selves in order to close the time loop.

This is probably the most Doctor Who like reasoning as the TARDIS/Time Lords would routinely fix time paradoxes that would occur, especially when the Doctor meets his past self. See the end of “The Five Doctors” 25th anniversary special. (seriously, they all get into the same TARDIS at the end and go off into their own different timelines)


Worry Free Space Adventure

3) Fugitoid/Turtles/April/Casey-B leave the Earth, don’t go back in time because they don’t need to. The timeline in which the Triceratons succeed and destroy the Earth no longer exists or is impassible to them. So they simply go on to have awesome space adventures.





Personally, I stand by #3 not because it has the most potential for fan-authors. But also works as a set up for a spin-off that centers on the turtles going to Space and just exploring.

One of the major problems in the previous space arc aside from the clunkiness of the plots. Is the constrained story line. Due to the need to find the pieces of the BHG, the Turtles didn't have any real time to explore and expand upon the setting and the various worlds.

And the few times they are exploring for the sake of exploring there were complaints that they (both the characters and writers) should not be dawdling about when there is an entire world that will be destroyed in a matter of months.

But without the fate of the world resting on their shoulders. There are so many stories, characters, and worlds that could be fleshed out in that in that setting.

For example, people have suggested Dr. Slumps fighting arena.

In other incarnations, the Turtles have visited D'hoonib itself.

There is also the Federation itself, they were only mentioned once in this series. But in other incarnations, the Federation including General Blanque have proven to be just as much of an enemy as the Triceraton's.

There's the potential of the Battle Nexus here.

The planet of the Turteoids and the Turtle Nebula among other things.

Thanks for posting this, I was asleep when he answered my question.

Anyway I'm going to go with 1 and stick with the time loop theory.

[Redworld96]

Thank goodness we have Peter to answer us, although all theories could work

But in my opinion, I agree with the Stable Time Loop. They leave Earth and just dissapear.

[gibbs615]

First (just like what he did with slash and the mutanimals) Leo started to distrust the fugitoid after he told them the truth and then RECKLESSLY went off on his own to get the generator...and they said RALPH was reckless! And then back on earth Splinter actually STOPPED Shredder from killing him that time and then REALLY took him down!!! Now that the TURTLES IN SPACE thing is over,maybe NOW sometime in the next episodes they'll FINALLY catch up with Karai hopefully!

[JH24]

I was wondering, do the Triceratons only have one Mothership or do they have more? Because if they have only one, would that mean the majority of the Triceraton race was destroyed?

[Chabrendeki]

In Revenge of the Triceratons the Turtles were surrounded by many motherships.

[JH24]

In Revenge of the Triceratons the Turtles were surrounded by many motherships.

I might be wrong, but those ships looked like small versions of the Mothership, they also act as a carrier for their fighters. While the Mothership acts as a carrier for their smaller battleships/cruisers. At least that's the impression I got from it.

[Poweranimals]

I haven't seen this episode yet, but I was wondering if this was the end of the space arc. Just curious as I haven't seen the time travel special yet and I know they were already back on Earth for that so I was going to wait to watch it.

[KrN]

I haven't seen this episode yet, but I was wondering if this was the end of the space arc. Just curious as I haven't seen the time travel special yet and I know they were already back on Earth for that so I was going to wait to watch it.

Earth's Last Stand was the last episode in the Space Arc (: Yes, it is over.

Hallelujah.

[Poweranimals]

Earth's Last Stand was the last episode in the Space Arc (: Yes, it is over.

Hallelujah.

I'm really surprised there were no one hour specials.

[bwrosas]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01khM4xDvgE

[TigerClaw]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01khM4xDvgE
The turtles of the past went with the Fugitoid of the past to space, so that they go back in time and get the black hole generator, it's a timeloop that will continue on in order to preserve the current timeline as it is now.

when the Turtles of the past succeed, the other Turtles from the past will do the same, its a loop that will continue on.

[Ninjinister]

RALPH

Please tell me that was auto-correct.

[victory_angel]

These are my initial thoughts on the finale to the Turtles in Space arc: 'Earth's Last Stand'.

I have to say I really did enjoy this episode. It closed some open plot threads, introduced some concepts or possibilities that would come to light in future episodes, and also opens the door for a new arc. Maybe more than that.

In regards to Leo's behavior, I didn't find it out of character for him to lash out at the Fugatoid and attempt to take out the Triceraton's on his own. Leo has a determination driven character.

He is determined to save the Earth and Splinter.
He is determined to protect his family from any danger.
He is determined to see the mission completed.

And sometimes he's so driven to succeed that he does act recklessly, even to the point of flying in the face of his own morals. As this season has progressed Leonardo has become increasingly more stressed by the task that he feels has been placed on his young shoulders. Over the past six month's he has had to lead his make-shift family into dangerous situations in order to obtain the pieces of the 'Heart of Darkness' before the Triceraton's do. He has faced off against alien threats that have tried to hinder their goal of saving the Earth and lost the pieces of the 'Heart of Darkness' to the enemy. Leo's greatest fear is his fear of failure, particularly failing his family. So he was already wound up rather tightly by this point.

I didn't find it all that surprising that the Fugatoid was the inventor of the 'Heart of Darkness'.

After all, in every incarnation he has appeared in, he has created or at the very least is involved in the creation of a device that he intends to be used for the purpose of good. But other people such as the Federation, Krang, or the Triceraton's see it as something they can use for their own selfish ends. The Fugatoid's involvement in the creation of the Heart of Darkness was notably hinted at in 'Arena of Carnage' when Emporer Zanraman was telling Honeycutt that he would spare the lives of the Turtles if he built the Heart of Darkness for him.

Still when Professor Honeycutt admits that he was the one who built the 'Heart of Darkness' and willingly sold it to the Kraang. The whole thing felt like one big slap in the face for the whole group, but for Leo especially. So it was only natural that he would accuse Fugatoid of being the cause of Earth's destruction.

All the Turtles and co were naturally shocked to hear this and yes they do lose trust for the Fugatoid following this. But Donnie, April, and Mikey also try to act as the voices of reason by pointing out that the professor had helped them numerous times and that he was trying to make amends for his past.

Moving forward in the episode to Leo's battle with the Triceraton's in the scout ship was intense and very well animated. Including the suspense of seeing Leonardo's helmet cracking and seeing Donnie use his space bo as a defibrillator in order to revive him. Though realistically the Ulixes would have had to rescue Leo when his helmet was beginning to crack in order to really save him.

I know Leo is the noble turtle and part of his nobility is him placing his families lives before his own.But I think the show should take a break with the death/ near death scenes with Leo and Splinter. While they do add to the drama, they have been done quite a few times over these last four season. Leo is particular has a fairly lengthy list of self-sacrifice and near death moments. And you can only drive a character death into the ground so many times before they become as pointless as funerals for superheroes.

However, this one near death held a lot of weight to it because of how his family reacted. One of the common themes in this series is the theme of family, and how the Turtles & Co must work together to stop the forces of evil as a family, not as individuals. Raph's angry comment of how a leader is supposed to lead a team really hits home in that moment. as it shows that the six of them are aware that they all they really have, and both Raph and Donnie are sick tired of seeing Leo needlessly putting himself at risk. Because whatever affects Leo, affects them all.

Meanwhile in the battle, there is a good chunk of footage from Annihilation: Earth. While this helps us figure out where things stand in the history of events leading up to the activation of the Black Hole Generator, it still felt like it was excessive padding that could have been used to focus on other events. Or if the footage needed to be used, have another point of view of it. Such as Mikey's reaction when he saw the stealth ship his brothers used to try and rescue him getting blown up, and then Raph pointing out they were okay because Donnie had conveniently picked up a transporter

Eventually, the battle features eight Turtles on the ground. With both the Turtles that went into outer space and the temporal copies of themselves on Earth. For the sake of confusion, I will call the Space Turtles: Team-A and the Temporal Copies: Team-B.

I'm not going to go into issues about what was right or wrong about the both Team-A and Team-B encountering each other. Because there aren't any set rules in regards to time travel aside from time being affected in some form.

But I can point to a story I enjoyed called The Alchemist, by Paulo Coelho. The story follows a shepherd boy named Santiago, who longs to see the world. He receives a reoccurring dream telling him that he shall find a great treasure. After selling his sheep he takes a journey to find this great treasure. But when he finally finds his treasure he finds it meaningless because he realizes that he was by far richer in taking the journey, then he would have been if he had simply known where the treasure had been.

Much like Santiago, the Turtle's journey to save the Earth had made them far stronger than they would have been if they had simply won the first time around. By failing to stop the Triceraton's the first time, Team-A got a firsthand look at what sort of horror the 'Heart of Darkness' could unleash. So when they were able to go back in time, they possessed the knowledge of the stakes they were up against and what they would lose if they failed. As history needed to set up for the eventual attack on earth, it was inevitable that the Turtles would fail at truly destroying the Heart of Darkness before it fell into the hands of the Triceraton Empire. But it's because of this journey they were able to depend on one another, gain reliable knowledge, allies, and skills in while space. And gaining the means of the Heart of Darknesses destruction though the noble sacrifice of someone they have come to trust over their journey.

Which leads us leads us into the final moment of the episode where the Fugatoid's ship arrived taking Team-Be into space. There are naturally lots of insights and questions regarding this. But Peter Di Cicco, one of the writers for the TMNT series did sum things up rather well with three plausibilities on his Tumblr feed.

1. Time Loop closes: Team-B goes back in time and in doing so merges with Team-A closing the time loop.

2. Stable Time Loop: Team-B goes into space and vanishes as their timeline ceases to exist following the destruction of the Back Hole Generator.

3. The Turtles simply are on an adventure through space: Team-B doesn't go back in time because they don't need to. The Turtles are simply journeying through space without the added pressure of having to save the Earth within a set period of time. Thus opening up possibilities for fan authors to work with, and cleanly creating a door for a plausible spin-off allowing the setting of space to expand.

All three of these moments are left to be taken by personal point of view and not as absolute cannon. So it just simply falls to what makes the most sense.

So all in all, I liked this episode and thought it was a good episode to close out the space arc. However, I do agree that more could have been done with this episode just as making at least two episodes long. I look forward to seeing what will happen going forward with this season particularly since the next episode is titled CIty of War. Not to mention the hinted at Humans vs. Mutants and Dark April events that also shall come out of this season.

[OrangeNinja1987]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01khM4xDvgE

Who made this? Someone on the forum? If so, I'd like them to know that no one is going to watch their 24 minute video if they burp in the first five seconds.

[Powder]

The guy posted it made it.

[DVD]

A fairly decent conclusion.
The tie up works to a degree if you don't think about it too much.
For me, I'm sorry to see the back of these space adventures, but I'm interested to see how they develop things back on terra firma.

[Klunk1234]

If Fugitoid 'dies' will he say the infamous, "I don't wanna go" line?

I was thinking exactly the same, since Fugitoid is played by the 10th Doctor.:twink:

The episode was great. Can't wait next episode.

The Fugitoid will be missed. The space episodes were great.

[Donny's computer84]

Great episode I'm going to miss the space episodes. I'll miss the Fugitoid ( aka the tenth doctor). It good to be back home.:D

[Chopperface]

Not bad. The only major twist for me was that Honeycutt voluntarily sold the Heart of Darkness to the Kraang for greed. Otherwise it was pretty by the numbers, though it was cool when the old timeline started to change up a bit when Mozar began to realize what was going on.

Honeycutt's revival didn't sting me as much as others since in 2003 he did the same trick (albeit after an extended amount of time being "dead"). Does feel a bit cheap like Mikey's usual jokes to end the episode, no matter how dramatic it was.

It is kinda sad that everyone from the original timeline really did die. And the Kraang are probably dead for another while, but knowing Sub-Prime...

I have to say I was shocked when it looked like Shredder killed Splinter again. That would've gotten some serious respect from me to the show runners, because that would've taken some balls. After everything, their biggest hope snuffed out right when they were about to try to save it? Damn. That moment alone really did a number on me.

That said, Splinter survived so they didn't go that route, but it was still satisfying nonetheless when Splinter was wise to it and beat Shredder. I thought he was really going to kill Shredder, but, again, no major change to the status quo. I do wish Tigerclaw and the other Foot had seen what Shredder was about to do, since that was a great little moment of development for Tigerclaw back in S3.

Leo was understandable but frustrating nonetheless. It's a common character trait that he'll become reckless and inadvertently self-centered when provoked enough, but I hope he grows out of it after this. How did he survive being adrift in space with a broken helmet anyway? Also weird to me was the fact that he was angry at Honeycutt for making the HOD, not selling it to the Kraang. Now that I would've been similarly mad at in his shoes, but Leo was mad that he made the machine. Weird.

Also, I laughed when April suddenly remembered Kirby for the first time this season. Just like last year when she only remembered him at the end of the farm arc. Gotta love the show's apathy towards its' cast!

[BH Daimaouji]

If Fugitoid 'dies' will he say the infamous, "I don't wanna go" line?

Funny, i saw a YT parody of James Avery's Shredder saying "I don't wanna die" i wonder if nick if like this and include it

[miru]

One highlight of this one was Splinter's invisible "hadouken" on Tin grin at 25 minutes in. Did anyone catch that?