How would you reintroduce Venus de Milo?

[TonySiegel]

or should she remain in tmnt fandom purgatory?

*awaits flame war or constructive discussion*

[CyberCubed]

I wouldn't simply because there's just no need. I'd rather them spend time developing important and memorable characters.

[plastroncafe]

So long as certain conditions were met, I'd have no problem what so ever with the Nick Toon reviving Venus.

1) She'd have to have the boy's design. Either the fab four, or Spike.
No shell boobs. No hair. If there's to be any sexual dimorphism at all, she should be larger than them.

2) She's not a love interest. At all. For anyone.

3) No pastel color palatte.

4) She's not a Kraang in disguise.

5) She have a conversation with another female character about something that isn't a dude.

[Andrew NDB]

There is a certain allure to seeing them take something like Venus, and subvert it into something that works. But it's pretty apocryphal to set out to redux Venus at all.

I would bet that in most/all of the current TMNT incarnations, should they continue, a female Turtle will appear at some point, but probably not one called Venus or Mieh Pieh Chi.

[MikeandRaph87]

The best way is to go with Peter Laird's verdict that her exostence has been erased. If she has to have existed Shredder could kill their sister on their inital encounter in a darker interpretation.

[plastroncafe]

So long as certain conditions were met, I'd have no problem what so ever with the Nick Toon reviving Venus.

1) She'd have to have the boy's design. Either the fab four, or Spike.
No shell boobs. No hair. If there's to be any sexual dimorphism at all, she should be larger than them.

2) She's not a love interest. At all. For anyone.

3) No pastel color palatte.

4) She's not a Kraang in disguise.

5) She have a conversation with another female character about something that isn't a dude.

6) She doesn't exist to be "fridged."

[Candy Kappa]

The same way Sophie did in her fan-comic. She was always one of the core members from the beginning and name her after a Renaissance artist and not a artwork.

And no shell boobs, that's dumb, as dumb as shell abs.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Taking her name at face value (an objet d'art instead of an artist), I'd reimage her into a genetic experiment conducted by an older Donatello. Alone in the universe with his three brothers and knowing that they have no way to pass on a biological legacy, Donatello creates a daughter using his own DNA. Hence the name.

Nice little one-shot, ala Turtles in Time and Roadhogs (I believe that's the name of the old Mirage RPG with Swamp Raph leading a few mutant turtles). And then we never have to see her again. :tlol:

[TonySiegel]

i'm feeling all these answers real surprised at the discussion. peace everyone i shall add my opinion soon...

[GoldMutant]

It might be me, but besides incorporating Venus into the Turtles' origin (as long as it's reducing the group to roommates and in love), I'd personally see her as a Turtle alien (the Nick Mona Lisa in a way). Might be weird, but for how I see it do something like this:

1. During a space adventure or a travel to Japan, the Turtles are introduced to a young female Turtle. Not mutated as of now, but brought home if something is occurring. For example, if in space say someone like the Triceratons attacked her home similar to Star Wars with Luke or if Japan and the rights allow it, bring her away if a Foot Clan attack or Norianga is leading an attack.

2. The Turtles bring the female home and treat her as one of the family (think identically to Spike in the Nickverse before he became Slash). Give some adorable moments with the little girl; cue something that occurs to fully mutate her into a character.

3. Cue the mystical elements; whether as unexplained potential or a family talent is entirely up to the writer. She assists in stopping the villain and is brought back to be tutored as a heroine.

4. Bring her back later on as a guest star from time to time so she doesn't overstay her welcome. Give Venus banter with her "step brothers", show some fancy tricks but not result in her being overpowered. If there's one thing to prevent Venus from returning is her destroying the equality between the four Turtles. I'd rather they each teach one another: Venus with the mystic side partially and the Turtles on other material.

Honestly, Venus had potential as a character but was shoehorned and rather pointless. She was practically one of the very few characters in Next Mutation written well, but the origin shouldn't have been damaged. :ohwell: Not sure if what I suggested works, but I'm gear for a Venus return sometime in the future if possible. If not, oh well; there's literally many directions to make her good, just depends on execution.

[Cryomancer]

Go with the separation thing. But don't have her magically somehow also ending up in martial arts. Give her a completely different life experience. Maybe even one where she never socialized with anyone at all and is just some kind of mindless creature or has just been secretly surviving alone somewhere.

Alternatively, make her realize the direness of her own situation and strive to exceed it. Make her the only Venus there ever was in the multiverse, stuck in the dumbest iteration. Have her figure out passage to the Battle Nexus, leaving her old world behind.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So long as certain conditions were met, I'd have no problem what so ever with the Nick Toon reviving Venus.

1) She'd have to have the boy's design. Either the fab four, or Spike.
No shell boobs. No hair. If there's to be any sexual dimorphism at all, she should be larger than them.

3) No pastel color palatte

Question: how would you reconcile the clashing schools of thought, namely: the Turtles take on some humanoid characteristics during mutation, versus no sexual dimorphism?

While I definitely agree "shell boobs" and pastel colors are pandering and insulting, I do think that copying some humanoid female traits could potentially make sense depending on how the mutations work in whichever universe this happened. For instance, in Fred Wolf and Nick TMNT, you take on the traits of whatever you last touched. If the female turtle was last in contact with a human...?

[Powder]

I'd wanna see her in the Nick series, as a dream/story of Michelangelo's. In Adventure Time, there are episodes in a different universe that are actually The Ice King's fanfiction. Given Mikey is an artist/writer in Mirage, it'd be cool to see that side of him brought out in a similar way, to introduce wacky characters & stories. I could see him writing about a cool female TMNT who knows magic. :trazz: I'd want her design to be in line with the 4 turtles, but maintain the general look of her original appearance, minus the shell boobs (though the top of the plaston could have a slight V shape to it, maybe). Have Malachi bring the turtles into her world to fight off Dragonlord or some other familiar foe.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'd wanna see her in the Nick series, as a dream/story of Michelangelo's. In Adventure Time, there are episodes in a different universe that are actually The Ice King's fanfiction. Given Mikey is an artist/writer in Mirage, it'd be cool to see that side of him brought out in a similar way, to introduce wacky characters & stories. I could see him writing about a cool female TMNT who knows magic. :trazz: I'd want her design to be in line with the 4 turtles, but maintain the general look of her original appearance, minus the shell boobs (though the top of the plaston could have a slight V shape to it, maybe). Have Malachi bring the turtles into her world to fight off Dragonlord or some other familiar foe.

Not a fan of the Nick universe, but I do like that idea...

[CyberCubed]

Its funny how all female mutants/animal characters in TMNT have been love interests:

- Mona Lisa was a love interest for Raph in the cartoons
- Ninjara was a love interest for Raph in Archie
- Alopex was a love interest for Raph in IDW (why does Raph get all the girls?)
- Venus was a love interest for possibly Leo or Mikey in Next Mutation

Were there any other female mutants who weren't love interests?

[MikeandRaph87]

It reminds me of the Mirage issue from the firs volume where the turtles had weird dreams. A throw away issue which had imaginary stories within a cannon universe. It could work by Mike's pen and imagination or a dream. Perhaps, a "what if Mona was a turtle" type thing that Raph could dream up.
http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume01/41/41cover.jpg

[Candy Kappa]

Question: how would you reconcile the clashing schools of thought, namely: the Turtles take on some humanoid characteristics during mutation, versus no sexual dimorphism?

While I definitely agree "shell boobs" and pastel colors are pandering and insulting, I do think that copying some humanoid female traits could potentially make sense depending on how the mutations work in whichever universe this happened. For instance, in Fred Wolf and Nick TMNT, you take on the traits of whatever you last touched. If the female turtle was last in contact with a human...?

I don't really see how that is clashing of schools. The Turtles don't show a whole lot of human sexual dimorphism, cause in reality we have a very low level of differences compared to a lot of other species.

So why should Venus be subject for perceived female human sexual dimorphism, when there are more credence for turtle dimorphism?

If Venus is to be without the typical "girl code", boobs, hourglass body, long eye lashes, hair. Making her more petite goes against turtle nature, especially Red-Eared Sliders where the female is a lot larger then the male, like BayTurtles vs Mirage Turtles size difference.

Should she then have a distinct trait of having cellulite, as that is a human female sex characteristic. Or birthing hips which again goes forward the "girl coding" with hourglass body (or in this case pear shape), maybe the shell works like a sexy corset...

[CyberCubed]

Maybe Venus should be genderless. Its not like she has to be male or female. It would fit in today's SJW tumblr society too.

[MikeandRaph87]

Maybe Venus should be genderless. Its not like she has to be male or female. It would fit in today's SJW tumblr society too.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/58499692.jpg

[TonySiegel]

honestly, i wasnt expecting peeps to be open to venus being reintroduced... let alone a discussion about her...

[Prowler]

I wouldn't... but for argument sake, I wouldn't pull the "we're not actually related" or the "she was there all along but Splinter didn't notice" BS which felt like a rip-off of FW's backstory for Mondo Gecko.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't really see how that is clashing of schools. The Turtles don't show a whole lot of human sexual dimorphism, cause in reality we have a very low level of differences compared to a lot of other species.

So why should Venus be subject for perceived female human sexual dimorphism, when there are more credence for turtle dimorphism?

If Venus is to be without the typical "girl code", boobs, hourglass body, long eye lashes, hair. Making her more petite goes against turtle nature, especially Red-Eared Sliders where the female is a lot larger then the male, like BayTurtles vs Mirage Turtles size difference.

Should she then have a distinct trait of having cellulite, as that is a human female sex characteristic. Or birthing hips which again goes forward the "girl coding" with hourglass body (or in this case pear shape), maybe the shell works like a sexy corset...

I'm not arguing that Turtles do or should; I was simply wondering if there was a balance between the two schools of thought or if they can coexist, and if so, to what extent. I mean, TMNT's top two notorious female mutants are Venus and Mona Lisa. :tlol:

One prime example of female mutants that sticks in mind, Alopex has been sadly neutralized and cutified since Sophie Campbell drew her; she used to look like a rabid nightmare, and now she's just a widdle ball of fwuff. But I think that's #1 the artist's personal style and #2 more a result of her becoming an ally than a reminder that "hey she's a female." Koya is an example of how female characters can be done without resorting to silly pink bows. Angelina Jolie's Tigress from Kung Fu Panda for another...

The further we progress from braided bandanna and shell boobs, the better. But you win internet points for making me laugh at "sexy corset shell"... :tlol:

[Ninjinister]

If I were writing a book for IDW I'd have her be one of the denizens of the future in Turtles in Time 4

[Shark_Blade]

Maybe Venus should be genderless. Its not like she has to be male or female. It would fit in today's SJW tumblr society too.

Like androgynous?

You're suggesting that she has a dick now? :teek: What is wrong with you??:tcry:

[miru]

In a world where we've seen Lord Dregg, Vernon Fenwick, and even freaking Jammerhead return, along with the rise of new scrappies like Spider Bytez and Eric Sachs, I believe Venus can be seen again. Here are my suggestions:


Originally, the Turtles were greater in number like a real ninja clan, but Shredder took out many of their number upon their first encounter, and this includes her and also others like Kirby and Picasso. Maybe she turns up in the employ of Dregg, embittered from her "death" at the hands of Shredder, mutated to become more chiropteran/insectoid under him.
Agent Bishop, obsessed with the creatures, decides to try and make his own to serve under him. Kirby, Terrorpin, etc may be failed results, but Venus is the final product. While she flirts with the Turtles and often helps them out, the man she truly loves is Bishop. Only knowing basic ninjitsu, she is primarily focused on magical attack.
Or, she, Carter, Cody, et al could only exist in a story Mondo Gecko made up to entertain himself. This seems like a good "catch-all" fate for hated TMNT characters.

[sdp]

Outside of the pilot the turtles never showed interest on Venus and even then. She doesn't have hair either, her bandanna is longer and resembles a ponytail, that's actually very clever and I like it. The Shellboobs don't bother me but I guess they can have less of a boob shape but she needs to have some girl like features.

I would love to see Venus back even if it's as a dream but I'd rather she be a real character. Her backstory can actually be very interesting with the whole Chinese angle. Her origin can change slightly, she could've already been in the sewers and just hapened to mutate when the ooze/other turtles fell so fans don't get their panties in a twist over her being their "sister". I'd change her bandanna to white so she would have a different color.


I didn't know but the girl who played Venus was cute:
https://36.media.tumblr.com/2c062e794949c1b909af0b308bb1b1b4/tumblr_nt5olcVWcp1qbx383o1_500.png
honestly, i wasnt expecting peeps to be open to venus being reintroduced... let alone a discussion about her...

so you made this thread to see Venus get flamed? :trolleye:

[CyberCubed]

The girl in the Venus costume is cute. Sadly since that pic is 1997...which is now oddly nearly 20 years ago...she probably looks old and dated now so I'd rather not look her up and see how she aged.

The sad realization when you realize 1997 is now 20 years ago. :cry:

[ToTheNines]

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

At least he died doing what he loved.

[ProactiveMan]

Taking her name at face value...


She'd be a double amputee?

[neatoman]

How to reintroduce her? As something using the name and nothing else, that or brief joke.

[Candy Kappa]

I'm not arguing that Turtles do or should; I was simply wondering if there was a balance between the two schools of thought or if they can coexist, and if so, to what extent. I mean, TMNT's top two notorious female mutants are Venus and Mona Lisa. :tlol:

One prime example of female mutants that sticks in mind, Alopex has been sadly neutralized and cutified since Sophie Campbell drew her; she used to look like a rabid nightmare, and now she's just a widdle ball of fwuff. But I think that's #1 the artist's personal style and #2 more a result of her becoming an ally than a reminder that "hey she's a female." Koya is an example of how female characters can be done without resorting to silly pink bows. Angelina Jolie's Tigress from Kung Fu Panda for another...

The further we progress from braided bandanna and shell boobs, the better. But you win internet points for making me laugh at "sexy corset shell"... :tlol:

I'm sure there is several ways of balancing it, from making her not Smurfette, but still recognizable female even though the boys don't have male coding.

They could go the Nick Mona Lisa route and make her less bulky (compared to Sal) and more smoother in the features, but still keep her the biggest of the Turtles.

Sophie did a stellar job designing her female turtle, as she basically designed Artemisia as a Ninja Turtle, not Girl/Boy Ninja Turtle.

[TonySiegel]

so you made this thread to see Venus get flamed? :trolleye:

not at all... i'm actually pro venus... wouldn't mind seeing stories with the female turtle perspective, especially if executed correctly...

i just had it in my mind that the fandom hated her from the research and materials i was reading lately...

would peter laird really flip out if someone were to ask him about venus?

[TonySiegel]

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

http://puntacanadventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/rum-and-coke-3.png.jpg

:D

[Krutch]

I remember at a Toronto Fan Expo at the TMNT panel, they were telling the story of how all the turtles got their names. I raised my hand and asked "So how did Venus De Milo come about?" and the room collectively groaned. All I got was a simple "We don't talk about Venus. Next question." Yeesh :roll:

As far as reintroducing Venus goes, I think it's doable.

Personally, I'd like to see her come around for a season of a TV show or a multi-volume arc in the comics, but I wouldn't want her around forever. Give her a bit of a tragic heel turn. Not sure what her origin would be, but I'd start her off as an outcast good guy who tries to fit in with the guys but she never feels like one of the team. Shredder plays on this insecurity and lures her to join his ranks, maybe even second in command(in turn creating a rivalry between Venus and Karai). The Turtles try to redeem her and by doing so, she turns on Shredder at the last moment. Afterwards the Turtles celebrate thinking she's back on the team for good but she decides to go her own way, knowing she's never going to be apart of the family. She disappears, and life goes on without her.

Not entirely original but its an arc I'd probably dig.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sophie did a stellar job designing her female turtle, as she basically designed Artemisia as a Ninja Turtle, not Girl/Boy Ninja Turtle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she roughly the same size as the original four as drawn by Campbell?

[Candy Kappa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she roughly the same size as the original four as drawn by Campbell?

No, she is the tallest of the five being at a whopping 5' 4", while the original turtles have the Other Strangeness height stats (more or less) so Donnie is the tallest among the dudes being flat 5 feet tall.

[plastroncafe]

Question: how would you reconcile the clashing schools of thought, namely: the Turtles take on some humanoid characteristics during mutation, versus no sexual dimorphism?

While I definitely agree "shell boobs" and pastel colors are pandering and insulting, I do think that copying some humanoid female traits could potentially make sense depending on how the mutations work in whichever universe this happened. For instance, in Fred Wolf and Nick TMNT, you take on the traits of whatever you last touched. If the female turtle was last in contact with a human...?

I'm not opposed to sexual dimorphism entirely. I'm opposed to the imposition of human sexual dimorphism on what would be a reptilian character.

There are plenty of traits a mutant turtle could get from a human that aren't "males are bigger than females, on average and oh...mammary glands."

Like:
Teeth, color vision, the ability to walk up-right, a drastic shift in intermemberal index, speech, self awareness....

[Candy Kappa]

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage. :lol:

[plastroncafe]

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage. :lol:

Exactly. So there's absolutely no reason why a female reptile shouldn't be anything but flat chested. Flat chested and likely taller and more broad than her male contemporaries.

[CyberCubed]

Venus is Scrappy or Poochy the rockin' dog. The mistake nobody wants to reference again.

The fact that she was only part of a short-lived and failed TV show probably helped. Had Venus instead been introduced in the final seasons of the original cartoon, it might have been different.

[ABrown]

I really think that the Nick series could make her work. I could see her showing up like once a season. She wouldn't be a part of the main group, she would just be a guest character.

[Krutch]

I really think that the Nick series could make her work. I could see her showing up like once a season. She wouldn't be a part of the main group, she would just be a guest character.That'd be an interesting scene seeing her about to step on the turtle van and notice she's already been airbrushed along the side.

[Cryomancer]

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage. :lol:

I was thinking this too. If she suddenly grew big human boobs as part of the mutation it would probably crush her damn organs and kill her. Or she'd have to break the hell out of her plastron. A good enough writer could probably make something out of that "origin" but it'd be tricky to make it happen.

[Utrommaniac]

Don't make her a mutant. Just have her be a regular turtle that hangs out in the sewer. Pretty much like Spike, just under a different name and a different type of turtle. Maybe they'd find a baby turtle hanging out inside a discarded oyster shell under a restaurant's sewage. Thus, they'd make the association with the painting Birth of Venus, and then take it home with them. Mike tries to make her their family mascot; it doesn't work. If she does inevitably mutate, maybe make her significantly younger. Just take out the girl/"a kid, god damn it a kid!"/Scrappy Doo characters and throw them all into one horrifying entity. Or maybe, by some miraculous and impossible blessing, it could work.

[Andrew NDB]

Shell boobs sort of work if it's the nonsense Fred Wolf/Nick mutagen and it's a literal 50/50 Turtle/Human DNA.

But I don't want to see that.

[CyberCubed]

I really think that the Nick series could make her work. I could see her showing up like once a season. She wouldn't be a part of the main group, she would just be a guest character.

They're already using Mona Lisa. She's the Venus expie. Thank goodness she's a salamander and not a turtle though.

[plastroncafe]

There can be only ONE!

[neatoman]

Shell boobs sort of work if it's the nonsense Fred Wolf/Nick mutagen and it's a literal 50/50 Turtle/Human DNA.

But I don't want to see that.

Just out of curiousity, what do you think makes the Fred Wolf Mutagen more nonsense than the Mirage Mutagen? Aside from turning Hamto Yoshi into a rat when it should have turned him into a turtle I mean.

[Utrommaniac]

The interesting thing is that shell boobs wouldn't work no matter what.
Because it seems to follow the principle of Breastplate Boobs and that's just ineffective and even dangerous (http://www.tor.com/2013/05/06/boob-plate-armor-would-kill-you/)

[ToTheNines]

http://puntacanadventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/rum-and-coke-3.png.jpg

:D

Yeah, Brugal is my jam. That bottle in mesh towards the middle is the ****.

[TonySiegel]

Yeah, Brugal is my jam. That bottle in mesh towards the middle is the ****.

the standard brown and white bottles are the joints...

that far right though looks like some special occasion joint...

you Spanish?

[ToTheNines]

Only in the honorary sense lol.

[turtle1237]

purgatory.

That show still gives me nightmares. How in the world did something that was so cool, turn out so bad? We had the cool 87 cartoon, 2 great movies and a decent 3rd film, and than this show came out and almost destroy the Ninja Turtles.

by the time the 2003 cartoon came around, the turtles were on life support.

[turtle1237]

They're already using Mona Lisa. She's the Venus expie. Thank goodness she's a salamander and not a turtle though.

Mona Lisa rock in the old cartoon, a shame she only show up once in the cartoon. But she was a cool salamander mutant lady lol.

[Shark_Blade]

I really think that the Nick series could make her work. I could see her showing up like once a season. She wouldn't be a part of the main group, she would just be a guest character.

If the scene involves her being hit by a runaway garbage truck and she dies, then sign me up.

[Cryomancer]

Just out of curiousity, what do you think makes the Fred Wolf Mutagen more nonsense than the Mirage Mutagen? Aside from turning Hamto Yoshi into a rat when it should have turned him into a turtle I mean.

Because it does whatever the writers decide it does that day. Turns Yoshi into a rat person, same age. Turns the turtles into full teenage turtle people, instantly. Turns a bull into a larger, angrier bull. Turns rocks into soldiers. And so on.

[plastroncafe]

In defense of FW, the whole "turtles to full grown in a day" thing is Mirage canon. It's canon they backpedaled on, but...it's in issue #1.

[ProactiveMan]

The mutation as depicted in either the Mirage or more recent versions of TMNT is pretty silly, so I don’t think we can make a very solid, scientific argument for or against any anatomical features.

The Mirage way is predicated on the notion that bipedal primate morphology is some kind of innate, evolutionary goal, or end-point, which most likely isn’t the case. With the Fred Wolf/Nick gene splicing ooze, there doesn’t seem to be any consistency in terms of which morphological features are merged, or adopted; it’s a case of anything goes. So, I’ve never seen a turtle with boobs, and I’m unlikely to ever see one, but I’ve never seen a talking plant with a human heart either, or a person who can change into a snake that has two other snakes for arms.

Turtle boobs make no sense via the Mirage method, but unfortunately in Fred Wolf land they don’t need to make sense.

[Zage]

The girl in the Venus costume is cute. Sadly since that pic is 1997...which is now oddly nearly 20 years ago...she probably looks old and dated now so I'd rather not look her up and see how she aged.

The sad realization when you realize 1997 is now 20 years ago. :cry:She'd be about 44 now, so chances are, she'd still be pretty. :D

Now, to stick with the topic, I like Venus, & think that it'd be neat, if she were introduced, in the IDW-verse.

[Cryomancer]

In defense of FW, the whole "turtles to full grown in a day" thing is Mirage canon. It's canon they backpedaled on, but...it's in issue #1.

Mirage at least doesn't have them with instantly formed personalities and the ability to speak English.

Although maybe stuff like bloodsucker would fall into that.

[neatoman]

In defense of FW, the whole "turtles to full grown in a day" thing is Mirage canon. It's canon they backpedaled on, but...it's in issue #1.

I will admit that I briefly forgot about the inconsistancies the Fred Wolf mutagen had. The point made here is that the Mirage mutagen mutated subjects in one way and one way only, and while we're the subject, I'm pretty sure they only doubled in size the first day but the full mutation took a year.

Now why it would make them more human like... I'm not sure...

[plastroncafe]

I will admit that I briefly forgot about the inconsistancies the Fred Wolf mutagen had. The point made here is that the Mirage mutagen mutated subjects in one way and one way only, and while we're the subject, I'm pretty sure they only doubled in size the first day but the full mutation took a year.

Now why it would make them more human like... I'm not sure...

You are absolutely right!
My bad.

[Wolfie65]

The first thing you'd need would be a credible Genesis.
Something better than:
Mikey:"So...like, some mutagen canister fell on you when you were a baby turtle, too, right after you were touched by a human? Gnarly co-inky-dinky! This calls for PIZZA, dudes....and Betty...!"
Raph:"She's not a real turtle! Let's kick her shell before she makes trouble!"
Donnie:"NOOO!!! No one touch her! She's my only chance of EVER finding a girlfriend! Venus, I'll build you ANY computer you want!"
Leo:"Now, guys...."

[tmnt transformer]

I always thought it would be cool if like, she was alternate universe version of Leo or something. For example, Her universe could have been destroyed by the triceratons with the black hole generator, and the fugetoid was only able to rescue her, with the inability to go back in time. So instead, she goes dimension hopping, and eventually gets stuck on the nick tmnt dimension. (P.s. What is the big deal with "Shell boobs"? Thats like, the easiest way to identify her as a female human turtle hybrid.)

[plastroncafe]

(P.s. What is the big deal with "Shell boobs"? Thats like, the easiest way to identify her as a female human turtle hybrid.)

No it's really not.

[CyberCubed]

The problem with Venus is she was also Mary Sue-ish. The Turtles needed help to take down the villain or solve a problem? Venus. They used her magic abilities to do everything.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

HERE'S an idea. What if Venus had magic the same way Scarlet Witch had magic?

In other words, she's mentally unstable, growing more disenchanted, and eventually wrecks havoc with her abilities.

Or, actually, that sounds a little too similar to Andrew's "Odyssey" idea...

[sdp]

I think Venus only used her magic in the pilot episode East Meets West, I can't really recall her using magic later and if she did it must've been something very small. Most of the misconceptions of the show come from East Meets West but the rest of the season is nothing like that. The actual show rarely focused on Venus and was easily the least represented turtle in the show with Raph getting the most screen time along with Mikey and his pirate radio. Counting how much hate she gets you'd think she was the focus of every episode. Mary Sue falls better to say Rei in Star Wars 7 here Venus is no more useful than any other turtle.

[Powder]

(P.s. What is the big deal with "Shell boobs"? Thats like, the easiest way to identify her as a female human turtle hybrid.)

Feminists detest them for socio-political reasons & the rest of us think they're just goofy as shell.

[SKX31]

I always thought it would be cool if like, she was alternate universe version of Leo or something. For example, Her universe could have been destroyed by the triceratons with the black hole generator, and the fugetoid was only able to rescue her, with the inability to go back in time. So instead, she goes dimension hopping, and eventually gets stuck on the nick tmnt dimension. (P.s. What is the big deal with "Shell boobs"? Thats like, the easiest way to identify her as a female human turtle hybrid.)

That is a pretty good idea, actually. That would solve a lot of stuff that one can notice right of the bat - such as "Why is she named after a sculpture when the theme's been artists for the turtles?"

I think (only a wild guess, but still) the big problem people have with "shell boobs" is exactly the problem people have anything anthropomorphic (including furries). Aka. some find it off-putting because it combines human and animal features in a sometimes messy manner. People are still pretty angry over Lola's "bunny boobs" - and Space Jam came from pretty much the same time frame as NM (mid-late 90s)!

However, if Nick doesn't introduce her, then there are some things that needs to be done by a future TMNT series:

1. If she doesn't come from an alternate universe / planet / whatever, I'm going with a pretty radical suggestion: rename her. Venus' name has been tainted pretty much for all eternity since Next Mutation was her only appearance. And a quick Google search turns up a surprising amount of female Renaissance artists - even from Italy! You could pick a name out of these artists:

Artists from the Renaissance era include Sofonisba Anguissola, Lucia Anguissola, Lavinia Fontana, Fede Galizia, Diana Scultori Ghisi, Caterina van Hemessen, Esther Inglis, Barbara Longhi,[13] Maria Ormani,[14] Marietta Robusti (daughter of Tintoretto),[13] Properzia de' Rossi,[13] Plautilla Nelli, Levina Teerlinc, Mayken Verhulst, and St. Catherine of Bologna (Caterina dei Vigri).

Aside from Mayken, Caterina, Esther and Levina (those women were from the Netherlands - except for maybe Esther, who was possibly born in London) all those women were from modern day Italy - just like the male turtles' namesakes. Remember, Venus was brought in to be a core piece of the puzzle, so if you're gonna have a female Turtle, then why break the trend when there's enough names to choose from in the first place?

That said, gotta have the "Sofi(a)" nick if you go for Sofonisba.

2. Modify those mysticism powers. Either introduce a couple weaknesses, or have her personality interfere with them. Using Nick April as an example, it's kinda easy to have any psychic powers seem, if not skirt / cross the line into OP territory.

Also, having a science vs mysticism personality clash can be fun - but IMHO, it shouldn't be too serious (otherwise it gets into Unfortunate Implications territory) and this new "Venus" should cooperate with Don at least a couple times.

3. Don't fall into the trap of "female just for female's sake". Why was "Legend of Korra" a really succesful follow-up to "Avatar"? Because Korra wasn't straight up a female Aang - she was her own character, with her own positives, negatives and neuroses / habits.

I mean, look at MLP's Rarity too. Sure, she's on the outside a "stereotypically female" fashion designer, but she does it out of because it's her career - trying to reach her dream of success and fame - but also out of generosity. Of course, she's got other traits too, but that reinforces the idea that she's not just a fashion designer, she's her own multifaceted character who happens to be very feminine. Same should go with the new "Venus" - don't add feminine traits just because, add them because those could broaden the character and make her more multidimensional. If Raph can be head-first into battle at some moments and at others very supportive of his bros, why not?

So yeah... lets not do a Next Mutation if you're gonna include a "Venus" character.

[Prowler]

Shell-boobs might look unrealistic but I doubt most, if any, mutant species in the TMNT universe is anatomically correct drawn. So I can let shell-boobs slide.

[pferreira]

If you wanted to bring back Venus the only way to do it is not make her a Turtle but another mutant ally like Mona Lisa in the Fred Wolf cartoon. Making Venus the Turtles sister was one step too far.

[Krutch]

This popped up on my movie prop feed this morning. She's still around. Owner is trying to have her restored.
http://i.imgur.com/Gjk2Tlt.jpg

[GoldMutant]

This popped up on my movie prop feed this morning. She's still around. Owner is trying to have her restored.
http://i.imgur.com/Gjk2Tlt.jpg

Good Lord, it's like a beast came along or someone really didn't like her. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

ZOMBIE VENUS DE MILO!!!!!

Run for your lives!

[ProactiveMan]

OH MY GOOOODDDDD! She's risen from the grave and she's coming for all us haters. Peter Laird better bunker down; something tells me he’s first.

[Utrommaniac]

Oh...dear...this simply will not do. Truly undead as those said before

http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/02/25/6359202602774850541159046874_Monsters%20Inc..gif

It was in this moment that I realized the "V" was quite a lot like the Roman numeral for the number five. And then I realized...that was probably why she was named that way. V=5 . Of course, other people have probably realized this over the years, but it just struck me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh...dear...this simply will not do. Truly undead as those said before

http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/02/25/6359202602774850541159046874_Monsters%20Inc..gif

It was in this moment that I realized the "V" was quite a lot like the Roman numeral for the number five. And then I realized...that was probably why she was named that way. V=5 . Of course, other people have probably realized this over the years, but it just struck me.

If it makes you feel less observant, you noticed before I did...

[Shark_Blade]

She looks like a typical case of domestic abuse.

[ProactiveMan]

That's pretty crass.

[Nortock Diab]

If it makes you feel less observant, you noticed before I did...

And before me as well.

[Zage]

This popped up on my movie prop feed this morning. She's still around. Owner is trying to have her restored.
http://i.imgur.com/Gjk2Tlt.jpg

"BRAAAAAIIINNSS!!!" :tlol:

[PangolinFeets]

I wonder how much a restore job on something like that will run ya.

I hope it's salvageable. She was probably one of the least worst things about that terrible show.

[JakeSully]

If they can make her interesting.

[pferreira]

Oh dear God! Zombie Venus! Where's Bruce Campbell when you need him. :lol:

[Krutch]

Speaking of this show, I remember one of the first gigs I landed as a locations PA in Vancouver. I was stationed far away from set(as most new PAs are) and the guy in charge of security, a large asian man with an eye patch, came up and started making small chat with me while the crew was rolling.

He was an actor and was pissed about how asian actors are typecast and how they can never get a part unless they learn kung-fu. Then he started telling me about how he was pissed a show he was on never got picked up for a second season because he was promised "big bucks" if it came back. That show was Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation, and I was talking to Patrick Pon who played Shredder in TNM.

Pointless story, but thought I'd share. Was one of those random weird moments in my life. Feel free to insert any "Cool story, bro" memes now :P

[mrmaczaps]

Intro Venus? Hmm... how about the destroyed lab has a dead turtle in it somewhere in the rubble with a small sliver of light blue paint on its shell and April can shriek"ooooh, poor Venus. I forgot about you!" And then never mention it again.

I lost a bet and had to watch one whole episode. I've had nightmares....

[miru]

Intro Venus? Hmm... how about the destroyed lab has a dead turtle in it somewhere in the rubble with a small sliver of light blue paint on its shell and April can shriek"ooooh, poor Venus. I forgot about you!" And then never mention it again.

I lost a bet and had to watch one whole episode. I've had nightmares....

I think characters like Vernon could get that treatment, but it's too late for th- oh wait, Baytles basically doesn't count.

And in IDW, she'd be a perfect Turtle rep in the Pantheon, likely with PKF's spirit body idea as mentioned below.

[Jephael]

How about we see Renet take the TMNT to a "what-if" future timeline where Donatello and April are married and have a baby daughter together? I know the idea sounds kinda weird, but if you take into account the fact that April is a mutant with psychic powers, it is somewhat plausible.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

How about we see Renet take the TMNT to a "what-if" future timeline where Donatello and April are married and have a baby daughter together? I know the idea sounds kinda weird, but if you take into account the fact that April is a mutant with psychic powers, it is somewhat plausible.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW.

Gnasty.

[Candy Kappa]

I have a great idea that will please both the "we need boobs to tell if female or not" camp and "shell boobs makes no plausible sense" camp.


She's a Common Snapper mutant. Their plastron is so small you can have one (human) titty hanging out on the sides of the shell.

It's perfect. :D

[ticktack]

I have a great idea that will please both the "we need boobs to tell if female or not" camp and "shell boobs makes no plausible sense" camp.


She's a Common Snapper mutant. Their plastron is so small you can have one (human) titty hanging out on the sides of the shell.

It's perfect. :D
rant
They are likely to be perverted bustards, it'll be right if you don't give them as much importance. I vote for "stop agreeing and putting up with every pervfart that is made around our skin".

[plastroncafe]

We do not have corresponding notions of perfection.

[mrmaczaps]

How about Renet shows up and takes the Turtles back in time to see their unmutated baby selves and we see name labels for each Turtle only Leo is missing and in its place it says Venus and then April says "hey, it was an honest mistake..." and they it gets shrugfed off and never talked about again... ��

[miru]

This makes me think... How would one re-introduce other unppopulat characters, like Vernon, Carter, Cody, etc?

* Halfcourt would just be a mascot for sporting goods.
* Monty Moose could be some weird internet image macro Donatello likes.
* Eric Sachs could make a nice minor villain who specializes in get-rich-quick schemes.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I have a great idea that will please both the "we need boobs to tell if female or not" camp and "shell boobs makes no plausible sense" camp.


She's a Common Snapper mutant. Their plastron is so small you can have one (human) titty hanging out on the sides of the shell.

It's perfect. :D


Why not just have her plastron be a little concave(I know that's a male thing) and stick out a bit on top, and she could have some "side-boob" extra skin around the bust area at the edge. Problem solved.

[Unworthy tinker]

Say that she's from a magical dimension occupied by yokai, and is actually a kappa, not a mutant turtle, and that her powers no longer work in the turtles' dimension, giving her motivation to try and go back home.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I wouldn't bring her back.

But, if for some reason I had to (if I somehow got a job with Viacom writing TMNT and the suits demanded Venus, I guess. Neither seems likely), I wouldn't make her a regular character. I think the main problem with Venus was that nobody really wants an "official fifth Turtle" to mess up the dynamic. I think that's why nobody minds Slash and Tokka, and why "Kirby: The fifth Turtle" will hopefully forever remain in Kevin Eastman's sketchbook. Or, at least, that's how I see it.

Really, I think the best way to handle her would be to make her not a real turtle at all, but a deranged, delusional human in a Turtle costume. And, not a good turtle costume either, but a crappy cheap mascot costume with a fuzzy texture. It would be completely filth-ridden and falling apart with blotches of crud and loose filling everywhere. And, because she never washes it she's constantly followed by stink-lines and flies.

Character-wise she would be psychotically obsessed with them and determined to join them, and act as a parody of Mary-sue self-insert characters (which is what original Venus pretty much was anyway).

Actually, I think I really like my version of Venus. I should draw her. That sounds like fun!:D

Anyway, I'd rather have Ninjara make a comeback than Venus. Maybe with a little more characterization than "badass ninja thief" and "Raph's girlfriend" this time around.

[Powder]

Really, I think the best way to handle her would be to make her not a real turtle at all, but a deranged, delusional human in a Turtle costume. And, not a good turtle costume either, but a crappy cheap mascot costume with a fuzzy texture. It would be completely filth-ridden and falling apart with blotches of crud and loose filling everywhere. And, because she never washes it she's constantly followed by stink-lines and flies.

Character-wise she would be psychotically obsessed with them and determined to join them, and act as a parody of Mary-sue self-insert characters (which is what original Venus pretty much was anyway).


http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt2012series/images/4/49/Tmnt-the-pulverizer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130506182457

I guess you don't watch the Nick series, eh? You've pretty much described Timmy AKA The Pulverizer.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt2012series/images/4/49/Tmnt-the-pulverizer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130506182457

I guess you don't watch the Nick series, eh? You've pretty much described Timmy AKA The Pulverizer.

I do watch it and it did cross my mind, but I'm talking above and beyond The Pulverizer, and much much creepier! Really, play her up as someone very creepy that literally thinks she's a Turtle, not just a nerdy fan who tries and fails to emulate them. Costume would be worse too, caked in filth with loose stitching everywhere.

Obviously, in the Nick show she would be too close to the Pulverizer. You're right. :lol:

[MathUser]

I like the next mutation but I don't really miss Venus Demilo. I didn't really hate her like other people did, but I don't miss her either.

[thundermaster612]

I do watch it and it did cross my mind, but I'm talking above and beyond The Pulverizer, and much much creepier! Really, play her up as someone very creepy that literally thinks she's a Turtle, not just a nerdy fan who tries and fails to emulate them. Costume would be worse too, caked in filth with loose stitching everywhere.

Obviously, in the Nick show she would be too close to the Pulverizer. You're right. :lol:

Oh ****! a turtle furry!
I'd like to see that Venus vs Timmy

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Sorry, lost my internet awhile ago. I'm at a library right now, and I just popped on to post this.
https://s26.postimg.org/689tqgrvd/Venus_Final_zpsr7fkhvwm.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Heeeeeere's Venus! Now I forget what her signature weapon was on the show, but I figured a bag of decomposing squirrel carcasses is as good a weapon as any.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Yech, that is disgusting! :o

I still think bringing her back as a dragon opposed to dragon Lord would work. Use her design from the Nick show.

[Huzzah]

I've actually said similar in the past. I like the idea of her as a Dragon, or with more direct ties to the Dragons. It'd give her a basis for a reptilian design and a source of her magic she uses. That and the fact that the Dragon Turtle is actually based in Chinese mythology, seems like grounds for introduction.

[ticktack]

"Kevin and I put our foot down (this was back when we both agreed that a female turtle was a lame, stupid, creatively bankrupt idea) and they changed her to some kind of lizard." --PL
Link http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mona_Lisa_(1987_TV_series)
I think the crew can create a female turtle which is an awesome, smart, creatively progressive idea. I now may think she can overshadow our main 4 heroes, but not in hostile straw person/feminist intention. (Btw Nick takes some parts from what was Venus. Painting the van, April psychic powers, Raph mask and bike) I've heard from fans that Venus was dominating on its show or the other turtles were uh braindead, horny, brats. So we might see that concept reused in its own good way. :trazz: ;)

Edit: I also feel that creative staff would be a little pressured and would be hard to create an awesome, smart, creatively progressive idea of a character from the get go. It is said that "You don't build Rome in one day". They just do the best they can: with love, care and passion and she'll eventually work. :D ^_^ ^_^