Are the TMNT biologically related?

[Bravotello]

Me and my sister were having a discussion and we were wondering if the TMNT were biologically related. I mean, just because they were all in the same tank before they were mutated, doesn't necessarily mean they all come from the same mother.

That and in the show (2003, the 2007 movie and the Nick cartoon mostly) they are also all different shades of green. Does that mean they are different species of turtle to??

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Inconsequential. Whether they are or not, they are spiritually family. That's what truly matters.

But to directly answer your question, I believe it's varied depending on incarnation...

[CyberCubed]

Probably not, no. It doesn't matter either.

[Powder]

But to directly answer your question, I believe it's varied depending on incarnation...

Pretty much this.

Mirage: Implied Brothers
Fred Wolf: Not sure, Splinter refers to them as "Pupils" & "Students"
Playmates Toys: Had them come from different pet Shops
Movies: Implied Brothers
Next Mutation: Not Brothers (though supposedly sharing the film's universe, originally)
4kids: Implied Brothers
IDW: Brothers in a past life, now reincarnated as 4 turtles, probably of the same "litter"
Nick: Implied Brothers
Movie: Implied Brothers

Overall the general theme is that of adoptive family, given Splinter is their would be father, April has a longstanding mother/sister role, Casey a brother or cousin, Zach "the fifth turtle" & so on, so the actual blood relation was never of much any significance.

[sdp]

I like to think of them as "brothers" but not actually blood related.

[Shark_Blade]

If they are not brothers then tcest looses it's meaning.

[IndigoErth]

Ya had to go there.


Just depends on preference I guess. Personally I prefer to consider them blood brothers, who share the same little turtle parents out there somewhere who haven't a clue that four of their babies went off on this big adventure.

[Bravotello]

Inconsequential. Whether they are or not, they are spiritually family. That's what truly matters.
True, but I like to zero in on and dissect very small inconsequential things. :) It's fun for me I guess, and thought it might be fun to talk about.

[victory_angel]

While biologically from the same clutch or not that is something that would that only matter in fanfiction. What matters series wise, is that the characters see and consider each other as brothers because that is how they were raised regardless of what clutch or pet shop they were from.

[BH Daimaouji]

Well i e-mailed the creators back in the 2000s and they said that "they don't know but think that way"

Update

Got it

> 3.Is it true that the Turtles are brothers by blood line?

That's a question that Mirage Studios has never answered officially.
Thus it's a mystery whether or not they're actually blood related.

[plastroncafe]

While biologically from the same clutch or not that is something that would that only matter in fanfiction. What matters series wise, is that the characters see and consider each other as brothers because that is how they were raised regardless of what clutch or pet shop they were from.

Exactly. And this fixation with "genetically related" with regards to Karai and her fathers in the Nick Toon undercuts this. Shredder is her real father, because he raised her. To say he's not because they're not related by blood delegitimizes the family bond between Splinter and the turtles.

[Yabuturtle]

I'm not sure why people reply with "Doesn't matter because they consider each other brothers." I don't think that's what the op was asking. They were asking are they genetically related or not.


I don't think they are though. Not sure if the creators ever confirmed that.

[ToTheNines]

Inconsequential. Whether they are or not, they are spiritually family. That's what truly matters.

But to directly answer your question, I believe it's varied depending on incarnation...

This. The entire point of TMNT is that that doesn't matter.

If they are not brothers then tcest looses it's meaning.

I fuc*ing hate you.

[thundermaster612]

Mirage somewhat implies the brother thing
87' is unknown but most likely
90' implies
03' (refer to 90')
12' yes
14' most likely yes

NTTNM who gives a ****

[Cryomancer]

If it mattered to them they could probably find out. It doesn't matter. At their birth it was something they specifically could never really know, but at this point they could probably figure it out by just ordering a few DNA kits from the internet.

A more relevant and important question for them would be if they are the same blood types or not, I'd think. I suppose potential organ transplants are the most justifiable reason for them to actually bother finding out for sure.

[ProactiveMan]

The transplant comment made me curious as to whether or not reptiles have different blood types, or blood groups. A lot of animals do it turns out, but not the same as ours. Cat's for example, only have two different groups, and most of them are A, depending what continent we're talking about.

From what I could find out from a quick search, there haven't been a lot of studies into reptilian blood groups. I couldn't find a straight answer, and anoyingly there are a lot of crackpot links getting in the way. There seem to be a bunch of weird conspiracy theories floating around, surrounding the supposed reptilian origins of RH- blood. Apparently Reptoids run the government and the RH blood group system can prove it. :teek:

[Nortock Diab]

If it mattered to them they could probably find out. It doesn't matter. At their birth it was something they specifically could never really know, but at this point they could probably figure it out by just ordering a few DNA kits from the internet.

A more relevant and important question for them would be if they are the same blood types or not, I'd think. I suppose potential organ transplants are the most justifiable reason for them to actually bother finding out for sure.

I believe this could turn into a fascinating storyline and would lead readers to question their conception of family.

It is in the core of TMNT that family goes beyond blood ties, so keeping on exploring this thematic that way would have a great potential.

Imagine the turtles find out that 3 of them are actually blood brothers while the 4th one is not. How would they react?
In my opinion, that is a very interesting starting point that deserves to be developped.

[Andrew NDB]

I believe Laird has said they were always intended to be brothers, by blood and spiritually.

[Andrew NDB]

Imagine the turtles find out that 3 of them are actually blood brothers while the 4th one is not. How would they react?

That actually wouldn't be a terrible thing to explore.

[IndigoErth]

My favored personal theory... Same turtle parents, same owner with a breeding pair, but hatched different seasons/nests to explain supposed age differences; Leo separately, Donnie and Raph from the same nest (since it has always been debatable who's older between the two), then Mikey separately.

Someone has mentioned before that legally turtles have to be a certain size to be sold. Leo was a slowpoke in growing (slow and steady toward 'perfection' after all), Donnie and Raph average, and Mikey was fast and caught up quick (a big appetite from the start fueling that), all hitting the right size around the same time and sold to a little local pet store together. (And if human Yoshi bought them then info on ages possibly passed on to him.)

Blood brothers, but only two are nest mates.

[Bravotello]

I believe this could turn into a fascinating storyline and would lead readers to question their conception of family.

It is in the core of TMNT that family goes beyond blood ties, so keeping on exploring this thematic that way would have a great potential.

Imagine the turtles find out that 3 of them are actually blood brothers while the 4th one is not. How would they react?
In my opinion, that is a very interesting starting point that deserves to be developped.

Whoaaaa that is an awesome idea! I'd love to see someone do that.

[Wildcat]

The "3 of them are 1 is not" idea would be interesting but I doubt it would change anything.

Anyway it just depends how you want it to be. If you want them to be then ya.

[Jester]

I always saw TMNT as an unintentional love letter to families of adoption. If the boys are "blood brothers" or not matters very little. What matters is that Splinter raised them as brothers.

[LuckyLadybug]

What confuses me is that I always thought every incarnation except Next Mutation had them as biologically related, yet in the 1987 series, I think I've only found one instance where they're referred to as brothers at all. (Splinter says "Your brother Turtles" to Donatello in season ... 5 or 6, I believe.) Usually in the 87 series, they call each other friends or buds, so it rather seems that in the 87 incarnation, they're not brothers and also don't think of each other as such?

[plastroncafe]

I always saw TMNT as an unintentional love letter to families of adoption. If the boys are "blood brothers" or not matters very little. What matters is that Splinter raised them as brothers.

^^^^^
This.

The blood of the covenant is thicker than the waters of the womb.

[Rooish]

Well, how do pet shops work? Do they usually sell a whole bunch of unrelated baby turtles or is it generally a litter, per se?

I like to think the Turtles don't know and don't really want to. It would be interesting if they had to find out to deal with some medical issue.

I always wondered, on this topic, why the Fred Wolf cartoon so adamantly avoided any mention of family, for the most part. They obviously were a family, but called each other "pals" or"pupils/students" or "sensei" or whatever.

[plastroncafe]

Well, how do pet shops work? Do they usually sell a whole bunch of unrelated baby turtles or is it generally a litter, per se?

I like to think the Turtles don't know and don't really want to. It would be interesting if they had to find out to deal with some medical issue.

I always wondered, on this topic, why the Fred Wolf cartoon so adamantly avoided any mention of family, for the most part. They obviously were a family, but called each other "pals" or"pupils/students" or "sensei" or whatever.

I don't really know much about the reptile breeding industry, but I'd imagine that small scale breeders would be far more likely to maintain clutch integrity.

That said, it's illegal in the US to sell hatchlings for non-educational purposes.

And turtles grow with conditions, and not necessarily with regards to age, so they could all be the same size, but have their ages differ slightly.

[Candy Kappa]

Yeah. It's illegal to sell turtles under 6 inches in shell length in the US, meaning store bough turtles are far from "babies" but fully mature turtles regardless of age. A male Slider can reach maturity in optimal conditions within 12 months, while the usual time is 2-5 years to reach proper maturity.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I always like to think they are biologically related (despite different colors in some versions), and the "adoption" element is still there with Splinter as their father. But, I have no proof of that and in the long run it doesn't matter because they're a family either way.

[Andrew NDB]

That said, it's illegal in the US to sell hatchlings for non-educational purposes.

https://myturtlestore.com/baby-turtles-for-sale/

[Candy Kappa]

https://myturtlestore.com/baby-turtles-for-sale/

My bad, it's under 4 inches.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=1240.62

Keep in mind there are plenty of loopholes for people to exploit.

[DestronMirage22]

That said, it's illegal in the US to sell hatchlings for non-educational purposes.


https://myturtlestore.com/baby-turtles-for-sale/

Yeah, any of you guys ever been to Chinatown in Cali? Seriously, EVERYONE over there sells baby Red Eared Sliders for dirt cheap. And, unfortunately, nobody ever stops them.

[neatoman]

Can someone explain why selling hatchlings is illegal? Does it mess them up being sold so young or something?

[Candy Kappa]

Can someone explain why selling hatchlings is illegal? Does it mess them up being sold so young or something?

Fear of salmonella and the life expectancy of a hatchling is 1 year in the hands of a ignorant pet owner.

[IndigoErth]

(despite different colors in some versions)
I dunno, I don't think different coloration is a deal breaker for possible blood siblings. While my sister and I may both be fair skinned, side by side we're still noticeably different tones. Doubt that's uncommon and why not similar for mutant Turtles. :)




Anyway. Still satisfied with my own theory in a prior comment; works out reasonably well to me.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I believe this could turn into a fascinating storyline and would lead readers to question their conception of family.

It is in the core of TMNT that family goes beyond blood ties, so keeping on exploring this thematic that way would have a great potential.

Imagine the turtles find out that 3 of them are actually blood brothers while the 4th one is not. How would they react?
In my opinion, that is a very interesting starting point that deserves to be developped.


I like that too! Might have to think about a possible story there.


My favored personal theory... Same turtle parents, same owner with a breeding pair, but hatched different seasons/nests to explain supposed age differences; Leo separately, Donnie and Raph from the same nest (since it has always been debatable who's older between the two), then Mikey separately.

Someone has mentioned before that legally turtles have to be a certain size to be sold. Leo was a slowpoke in growing (slow and steady toward 'perfection' after all), Donnie and Raph average, and Mikey was fast and caught up quick (a big appetite from the start fueling that), all hitting the right size around the same time and sold to a little local pet store together. (And if human Yoshi bought them then info on ages possibly passed on to him.)

Blood brothers, but only two are nest mates.


I love this! It makes perfect sense for why the FW version all had different birthdays. Maybe Splinter found out when they were hatched somehow.


Well, how do pet shops work? Do they usually sell a whole bunch of unrelated baby turtles or is it generally a litter, per se?

I like to think the Turtles don't know and don't really want to. It would be interesting if they had to find out to deal with some medical issue.

I always wondered, on this topic, why the Fred Wolf cartoon so adamantly avoided any mention of family, for the most part. They obviously were a family, but called each other "pals" or"pupils/students" or "sensei" or whatever.


Having raised and bred both fish and hamsters growing up- my mom sold hamsters to a local pet shop- I imagine turtles are about the same. Small animals are usually sold to shops in batches usually of the same size/age. The reason is that older animals often crowd out their younger/smaller fellows. Also, animals raised in the same conditions usually grow around the same rate unless there are particularly aggressive individuals pushing others away from food- most responsible breeders would seperate these "bullies" so the rest can get their share. So the turtles in a given pet shop usually wilk have cone from the same breeder and most likely are from the same clutch or from several that hatched at the same time. And most breeders use the same breeding stock regularly, so- the TMNT probably ARE brothers.


I dunno, I don't think different coloration is a deal breaker for possible blood siblings. While my sister and I may both be fair skinned, side by side we're still noticeably different tones. Doubt that's uncommon and why not similar for mutant Turtles. :)

Anyway. Still satisfied with my own theory in a prior comment; works out reasonably well to me.


I tend to see it as a simple evolution of their markings. All turtles have unique markings that are like fingerprints. So maybe the coloration is like the stripes on a tiger- it just makes them individuals!

[victory_angel]

I like that too! Might have to think about a possible story there.

I actually had a fan fiction plot with this. This was originally thought up before Bishop turned out to be an utrom in the current show.

What I had thought up is that the Turtles are captured by Bishop while they are unconscious he takes blood and tissue samples from all of them. Then later when they wake up, Bishop taunts them about their predicament. During the exchange, Leo tells Bishop that he can do what he wants with him, but he should let his three brothers go. Bishop then points out that only two of his companions are his brothers. When he had been examining their DNA he found one of them was genetically a stranger. All the turtles are mixed about this, with Raph saying that Bishop was making it up to scare them, Mikey is confused over which of them isn't their brother. Leo tells them it doesn't matter. And Donnie suggests there is a possibility that one of them could be genetically a stranger since they all hatched from eggs. It's not that far-fetched that one of them could have been originally from another clutch.

After the Turtles are able to escape, Donnie offers to do a DNA test on his brothers and himself simply so they can put the matter to bed. When the results are printed out Donnie tells his brothers that the three of them are related, but he isn't.

Donnie is somewhat down about this because it feels like everything he's known was never there. Leo then approaches him and says "Okay, so the test says we aren't related, but what truly matters is what you believe. Splinter raised the four of us as his sons, and our whole lives we have seen and thought of each other as brothers. And just because one person said that you aren't related to the rest of us, that doesn't make the former any less true."

[plastroncafe]

https://myturtlestore.com/baby-turtles-for-sale/

What what what? Someone on the internet doing something illegal?
To HELL you say!

Oh they're from Florida, well that explains that.
Those are the kind of jackholes releasing reticulated pythons into the everglades.

Wonder if anyone's ever turned them in.
Oooh a project!

edit:
Oh look at these lovely lines of fine print:
You agree to use your Turtle that you receive from MyTurtleStore.com for a bona fide scientific, educational, export or exhibit purpose only.

You agree to remain in compliance with all state and federal laws that pertain to possessing a Turtle. You also agree that you have contacted the necessary individuals and determined that it is legal for you to own or posses a Turtle in your state for reasons of bona fide scientific, educational or export purposes and that these are the reasons you wish to obtain a Turtle from MyTurtleStore.com

You agree that any Turtle with a carapace length of less than four inches that you obtained from MyTurtleStore.com will not be used as a pet in any way, shape or form.

You agree that you will not hold MyTurtleStore.com or anyone that is associated with MyTurtleStore.com under any legal liability for any reason that may arise from owning or possessing a Turtle

Pursuant to Florida Law, enacted July 1, 2007, a ban was put in place regarding the sale of a Non-native species, the Red Ear Slider within the State of Florida. Any Red Ear Sliders ordered will be substituted for a species that is not banned within the State of Florida, for example Yellow Belly Slider or Mississippi Map Turtle.

Pursuant to Massachusetts Law, a ban was put in place regarding the sale of the Red Ear Slider Turtle within the State of Massachusetts. Any Red Ear Sliders ordered will automatically be substituted for a species that is not banned within the State of Massachusetts, for example Yellow Belly Slider or Mississippi Map Turtle.

Pursuant to Oregon Law, a ban was put in place regarding the sale of turtles and tortoises within the State of Oregon. Any orders containing turtles and or tortoises will be automatically cancelled and refunded. If the order also contains products the customer will be called or e-mailed first to find out if they would like the products cancelled as well.

Pursuant to Maine Law, a ban was put in place regarding the sale of certain turtles and tortoises within the State of Maine. Any orders containing these banned turtles and or tortoises will be automatically put on hold until the customer is contacted and a different animal that is not banned is selected.

Yeah, any of you guys ever been to Chinatown in Cali? Seriously, EVERYONE over there sells baby Red Eared Sliders for dirt cheap. And, unfortunately, nobody ever stops them.

My RES was bought by my cousin on a beach boardwalk that just so happened to be across the street from a State Police station.
It was $10 for the six by three container, and then you could put as many turtles in it as you wanted.

See? Not selling the turtles, just the container!

She chose two, one died a month later because she had no idea how to take care of reptiles. I swooped in and rescued the other one not long after, when the cousin realized he'd be a foot and a half long fully grown, and potentially live over 30 years.

So yeah, it happens. It happens a lot. It shouldn't, but it does.
And thanks to it happening RES are now illegal to own in MA.
Mine's just barely grandfathered in, and I'm not exactly looking forward to the rigamarole that'd follow if I had to rehome the little blighter.

[Candy Kappa]

I've seen legit discussions on breeding RES with dwarfism since that would "fix" the size "problem".

The breeding industry is a bit creepy and feels on par with pure dog breeding when it comes to Albinos, Lubinos, Caramels and Pastel Sliders. And the price is insane from $150-$500 depending on the type.

[Raptor86]

I dunno, I don't think different coloration is a deal breaker for possible blood siblings. While my sister and I may both be fair skinned, side by side we're still noticeably different tones. Doubt that's uncommon and why not similar for mutant Turtles. :)




Anyway. Still satisfied with my own theory in a prior comment; works out reasonably well to me.

I agree with you. I owned red-eared slider turtles before, and the female was very light green and the male was dark green. I guess that the skin color of their offspring would have been of different nuances of green

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I agree with you. I owned red-eared slider turtles before, and the female was very light green and the male was dark green. I guess that the skin color of their offspring would have been of different nuances of green
Well, that sounds about the range of TMNT Turtles skin colors, so I guess it's not even that big a point against it then. :)

[LuckyLadybug]

I actually had a fan fiction plot with this. This was originally thought up before Bishop turned out to be an utrom in the current show.

What I had thought up is that the Turtles are captured by Bishop while they are unconscious he takes blood and tissue samples from all of them. Then later when they wake up, Bishop taunts them about their predicament. During the exchange, Leo tells Bishop that he can do what he wants with him, but he should let his three brothers go. Bishop then points out that only two of his companions are his brothers. When he had been examining their DNA he found one of them was genetically a stranger. All the turtles are mixed about this, with Raph saying that Bishop was making it up to scare them, Mikey is confused over which of them isn't their brother. Leo tells them it doesn't matter. And Donnie suggests there is a possibility that one of them could be genetically a stranger since they all hatched from eggs. It's not that far-fetched that one of them could have been originally from another clutch.

After the Turtles are able to escape, Donnie offers to do a DNA test on his brothers and himself simply so they can put the matter to bed. When the results are printed out Donnie tells his brothers that the three of them are related, but he isn't.

Donnie is somewhat down about this because it feels like everything he's known was never there. Leo then approaches him and says "Okay, so the test says we aren't related, but what truly matters is what you believe. Splinter raised the four of us as his sons, and our whole lives we have seen and thought of each other as brothers. And just because one person said that you aren't related to the rest of us, that doesn't make the former any less true."

I love your story idea! Did you actually write it or did it never make it past the idea stage because of Utrom Bishop?