Do you consider TMNT 2007 apart of the 90s live action movie universe?

[WolvDragon]

I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

[Powder]

I dunno, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It can kind go either way, so it's best left to personal preference, I say. Not 100% on the official word, though I do think he (Kevin Munroe) had wanted it to be loosely connected to them.

For me it's like, there's a fork in the road where The Next Mutation & TMNT meet, it's your call as to which one is where the original trilogy potentially branched off. I like TNM more than TMNT, so if made to choose I go with that.

[oldmanwinters]

I look at the 2007 film as an amalgam universe of the live-action films and the 4Kids series.

[snake]

I do. I also liked 2007 a lot more than most here. Underrated and enjoyable movie.

[Editor's Note Comics]

If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

[MikeandRaph87]

I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

It is like Superman Returns is to the 4 that came before it. It is loosely connected,like a soft reboot.

[d_osborn]

Personally, I consider the 07 CGI movie it's own thing with a few small throwbacks. Sooooo much potential squandered.

I'm curious is the unproduced Barron Hallmark project was intended to be connected to the original movie.

[neatoman]

There are some hints that it takes place in the same continuity but it obviously takes place long enough after TMNT III for it to be irrelevant.

[snake]

If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

I liked the song

[CyberCubed]

Nowadays I see the 2007 movie having more in common with the Nick cartoon than anything else. You just have to ignore Karai not being familiar with the Turtles, but even that is glossed over in the movie really quickly.

[Joey Kamikaze]

It is like Superman Returns is to the 4 that came before it. It is loosely connected,like a soft reboot.

There are some hints that it takes place in the same continuity but it obviously takes place long enough after TMNT III for it to be irrelevant.

That's about how I felt about it. I was looking forward to the next movie, the one they were obviously setting up but we never got. As its own thing, I feel TMNT is alright, and at least a hell of an improvement on III. If we'd gotten a proper TMNT V as a follow-up, I'd think of it as the proper TMNT IV today.

[Aaronardo]

I do. I also liked 2007 a lot more than most here. Underrated and enjoyable movie.

Me too. For every fault in that movie it made up for it by doing something pretty great. Its faults aren't even that big of problems really. I enjoy that movie more than a lot of episodes of the 4Kids series, not gonna lie. (And seriously, the Nightwatcher arc needs to be brought up again. It's a pretty damn good story for Raph)

[oldmanwinters]

Hey, here's a crazy idea...

TMNT 2k7 is actually an alternate future of the Nick toon!

[Cryomancer]

It can be if it wants to be, far as I'm concerned. Although it's annoying since the tie-in comics reference Triceratons so that means we're "missing" a potentially interesting "movie".

If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

You're living in a universe that plays both Vanilla Ice and POD right now!

Hey, here's a crazy idea...

TMNT 2k7 is actually an alternate future of the Nick toon!

Would explain why April and Casey don't seem to be like 5-10 years older than the turtles.

[oldmanwinters]

Would explain why April and Casey don't seem to be like 5-10 years older than the turtles.

I think 2k7 Casey has a similar build to Nick Casey. Most other versions make him into a muscled dude.

I was just thinking today how weird it must be for a kid who first knew the Turtles through the Nick toon to discover the 2007 movie and wonder if it's supposed to be the same characters.

[sdp]

I followed this movie heavily here in the drome and the director was very vague about things but basically would always say this was a new universe and it clearly was meant to be a new universe. If you want to know Monroe specifically flip flopped from the first one being in continuity to maybe the first two but that it was its own thing etc. In the end we have the trophy room which ironically has TMNT III references which he never mentioned as possibly happening.

I was part of the IT HAS TO BE TMNT IV camp as many were and was happy ot have the trophy room but after seeing the movie and reading the tie-in stuff I realized it made no sense to shoehorn it into the movie continuity. First of all the movies don't add up, the first trilogy are clearly taking place in the late 80s/early 90s while this is a modern world. Pretty much all characters act very differently. The trophy room is pretty much filled with stuff all incarnations of the turtles have done like defeat Shredder, the canister, time scepter and has stuff the movie turtles didn't do as well but have done in many other incarnations like the triceratons and mousers.

However the tie-in comics and kids novels like "who's the nightwatcher" make references to characters like Silver Sentry and flesh out this universe as its own thing. If we'd gotten more movies in this universe it would've definitely become a different universe. And while the fandom may hate it The Next Mutation actually has way more connections and references to the original trilogy making that one more of a sequel to the three films than the 2007 one.

That's my argument, and yeah I'm also now in the camp that "as long as there aren't any huge contradictions" I will shoehorn it into the Nick universe, just so it doesn't feel so alone.

[Cryomancer]

April running a (false?) import/export business would be a good starting point for some kind of international TMNT comic or TV show or something.

[oldmanwinters]

I followed this movie heavily here in the drome and the director was very vague about things but basically would always say this was a new universe and it clearly was meant to be a new universe. If you want to know Monroe specifically flip flopped from the first one being in continuity to maybe the first two but that it was its own thing etc. In the end we have the trophy room which ironically has TMNT III references which he never mentioned as possibly happening.

I was part of the IT HAS TO BE TMNT IV camp as many were and was happy ot have the trophy room but after seeing the movie and reading the tie-in stuff I realized it made no sense to shoehorn it into the movie continuity. First of all the movies don't add up, the first trilogy are clearly taking place in the late 80s/early 90s while this is a modern world. Pretty much all characters act very differently. The trophy room is pretty much filled with stuff all incarnations of the turtles have done like defeat Shredder, the canister, time scepter and has stuff the movie turtles didn't do as well but have done in many other incarnations like the triceratons and mousers.

However the tie-in comics and kids novels like "who's the nightwatcher" make references to characters like Silver Sentry and flesh out this universe as its own thing. If we'd gotten more movies in this universe it would've definitely become a different universe. And while the fandom may hate it The Next Mutation actually has way more connections and references to the original trilogy making that one more of a sequel to the three films than the 2007 one.

That's my argument, and yeah I'm also now in the camp that "as long as there aren't any huge contradictions" I will shoehorn it into the Nick universe, just so it doesn't feel so alone.

April running a (false?) import/export business would be a good starting point for some kind of international TMNT comic or TV show or something.

Man, you two really make me want a new mini-series based off the Imagi continuity.

[Xav]

Nowadays I see the 2007 movie having more in common with the Nick cartoon than anything else. You just have to ignore Karai not being familiar with the Turtles, but even that is glossed over in the movie really quickly.But I thought she does recognize the Turtles when she sees them?

[CyberCubed]

I think 2k7 Casey has a similar build to Nick Casey. Most other versions make him into a muscled dude.

I was just thinking today how weird it must be for a kid who first knew the Turtles through the Nick toon to discover the 2007 movie and wonder if it's supposed to be the same characters.

April in the 2007 movie also looks like an adult version of Nick April. She literally has the same face, hair style, etc.

[Candy Kappa]

The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Teenagemutantninjaturtles-1.jpg
1. The Honor Guard helmet from TMNT 3
2. TGRI canister from TMNT 1 and 2
3. TMNT 1 Shredder Helmet
4. What looks like a Triceraton blaster
5. Honor Guard mask from TMNT 3
6. Lord Norinaga's armor
7. The time septer
8. Looks like a Triceraton breather mask
9. Mouser feet??

I wonder if the kimono in the back right corner is Master Yoshi's.

If not canon, at least teh Imagi Turtles have done some very similar adventures like the live-action movies, as well as meeting Triceratons and Mousers before the event of TMNT 2007

[oceanfr]

It can go both ways as far as the CGI goes.

[pferreira]

I look at the 2007 film as an amalgam universe of the live-action films and the 4Kids series.Same here since the 4Kids show was on at the time.

[ProactiveMan]

The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.

The Shredder Helmet is interesting because his design in the prologue and some of the merch is more like the 4kids shredder, but that helmet is clearly from the 90s movie. I'm not sure where they would have gotten it from if that is the case, seeing as his first helmet was crushed, and the second one mutated (somehow).

[Andrew NDB]

I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

Absolutely. Munroe said it was intended to be a sequel to TMNT 1 and 2... then we see Walker's hat in it too and the goddamn Scepter, so obviously TMNT 3 is in it too. Yeah, it's TMNT Part Four, through and through.

[d_osborn]

Absolutely. Munroe said it was intended to be a sequel to TMNT 1 and 2... then we see Walker's hat in it too and the goddamn Scepter, so obviously TMNT 3 is in it too. Yeah, it's TMNT Part Four, through and through.
He also probably intended it to be good, but that didn't quite work out, either. His original character designs were REALLY cool.

I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.

[ToTheNines]

He also probably intended it to be good, but that didn't quite work out, either. His original character designs were REALLY cool.

I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.

This.

We've had this same discussion about 99 times now, and we come to the same conclusion every time: some think it's a sequel, some think it's a seperate universe. Whatever you want it to be.

[Powder]

That's part of the fun of TMNT. You can usually "choose your own adventure" so to speak, be it this matter, Image/Mirage canon, which things tie into the OT, etc.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.


Pretty much this. April has mire in common with her 4kids counterpart, as does Casey. Karai and the turtles obviously know each other, as evidenced when Leo recognizes her at the cinstruction site. And the lair has NO connection to any of the movie ones- in fact, it actually looks more like the Atlantean one from 4kids. (Yes I know it was destroyed, but given the proximity of the underground city, it is very possible they had other outposts.) The trophy room was just an easter egg or shout out scene.

[ToTheNines]

That's part of the fun of TMNT. You can usually "choose your own adventure" so to speak, be it this matter, Image/Mirage canon, which things tie into the OT, etc.

A lot of Mirage is like that, with the guest era and certain Tales. Archie has some take or leave continuity, mainly Year of The Turtle. IDW has the Batman crossover. Even Next Mutation has the PRIS crossover lol.

[snake]

A lot of Mirage is like that, with the guest era and certain Tales. Archie has some take or leave continuity, mainly Year of The Turtle. IDW has the Batman crossover. Even Next Mutation has the PRIS crossover lol.

IDW also has the X Files crossover

[ToTheNines]

IDW also has the X Files crossover

Well the 6 part series as a whole is undeniably not canon, especially after the finale. But yeah, you could include just the TMNT issue if you really wanted to.

I also liked to believe that the Justice Force episode in 4kids and the Pizzaface episode in Nick were both just Mike's imagination, unfortunately later episodes of each series would bring those crappy stories back into the mix. I still pretty much ignore them though.

[Coola Yagami]

It wants to be but it's clearly not. I mean do you honestly see goofy-ass Cowabunga Leo from the first 3 movies go on this world trek on his own? Naw.

[CyberCubed]

I also liked to believe that the Justice Force episode in 4kids and the Pizzaface episode in Nick were both just Mike's imagination, unfortunately later episodes of each series would bring those crappy stories back into the mix. I still pretty much ignore them though.

Justice Force appear so often in the 2k3 series its hard to ignore them though. Although you're right had the first Silver Sentry ep just been a one-off, it could have just been a comic story Mike was imagining himself in. But that went out the window once the superheroes kept coming back.

[MathUser]

The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.



If not canon, at least teh Imagi Turtles have done some very similar adventures like the live-action movies, as well as meeting Triceratons and Mousers before the event of TMNT 2007

How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

[snake]

How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

I haven't seen TMNT 3 in awhile as well, but it's possible that the turtles went back in another adventure or he came to the future somehow. (Maybe Savanti was involved?)

[Cryomancer]

How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

Lots of old armor is still around in the present, maybe April's company picked it up for them at some point.

[Shark_Blade]

Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." + Winters and the portal planetary alignment Hercules ripoff origin) so I deleted that out and add in the first teaser (the one where they posed with their weapons and Mikey fell from the sky into a garbage container. Rendering takes 2 hours.

I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.

[TMNTInsighter]

Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." ...

I agree. Definitely overrated.

[pferreira]

Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. Any chance you could edit out Kevin Smith? :lol:

[Powder]

What's wrong with his microscopic cameo?

[ProactiveMan]

I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.

It sounds like a fun project for a rainy afternoon, but if you cut all of that stuff out the movie will be 20 minutes long and make no sense.

[pferreira]

What's wrong with his microscopic cameo?It felt very self indulgent.

[Powder]

Do you know the circumstances of his involvement or are you assuming he just ran up to someone working on the film & said "Give me a line!". :trolleye:

[d_osborn]

Do you know the circumstances of his involvement or are you assuming he just ran up to someone working on the film & said "Give me a line!". :trolleye:
You know, I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Smith discussed being approached/working on the movie in one of his big Q&A DVDs.

[pferreira]

You know, I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Smith discussed being approached/working on the movie in one of his big Q&A DVDs.If a movie franchise is brought back you can bet Smith will be asked or lobby to be involved somehow. I roll my eyes when he appears in returning franchise movies or TV shows.

[WebLurker]

I recently got to see the movie. As a fan introduced through the Nick show, I felt generally at home (April knowing martial arts, for example).

As far as the question goes, I kind of think its its own thing. The designs are different. April has a very different job and has clearly been training for an extended period of time. Splinter has an intact Shredder helmet, while the Shredder's helmet did not survive intact in the original series. The easter egg references to the original movies could only suggest that stuff like them happened, not that the movie is in continuity. Finally, "Turtles Forever" establishes that the live action movies and TMNT are separate realties.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I tend to think of it as a loose sequel to the original trilogy, but yeah a lot obviously had to have happened between the two.

I think it's a better continuation than Next Mutation, though.

[thundermaster612]

About the thing Kappa quoted on the other page. I think Splinter is wearing Master Yoshi's robe. That would be interesting.

I only sometimes consider it's canon. I don't want to be too sure that it is till we get a real confirmation

[Coola Yagami]

About the thing Kappa quoted on the other page. I think Splinter is wearing Master Yoshi's robe. That would be interesting.

I only sometimes consider it's canon. I don't want to be too sure that it is till we get a real confirmation

Real confirmation is watching all 4 movies yourself. See how the characters look and act in the first 3 and tell me you envision those same characters somehow working in TMNT 2007. I really don't see Judith/Paige as a globe trotting ninja archaeologist, nor do I see movie Splinter sending movie Leo on a world trek when he mostly wants them to stay hidden in the sewers. Then they need jobs all of a sudden just because Leo left? Was he the breadwinner in the first 3 movies and somehow we never knew about it? How did Splinter regrow his ear?

I know people change and all, but these guys in the 2007 movie are completely different characters.

[superstaff]

(And seriously, the Nightwatcher arc needs to be brought up again. It's a pretty damn good story for Raph)

I have to agree. That was one of the best things in the movie, and it'd make a hella awesome arc in a comic or cartoon series.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I have to agree. That was one of the best things in the movie, and it'd make a hella awesome arc in a comic or cartoon series.

The entire concept of the turtles splitting up when growing older should be more played on in current and later versions.

[superstaff]

The entire concept of the turtles splitting up when growing older should be more played on in current and later versions.

I do like the idea of the group going off to live their own lives then coming back together to accomplish a common goal. I mean, it doesn't even need to be that they had a falling out though that would regenerate the most drama, I guess. I believe the final volume of the Mirage Comics had something like that going on, unless I'm mistaken, which never got resolved.

[Andrew NDB]

I would like to have believed that the ultimate goal of the Mirage future TMNT was that they would first learn to live independently of one another, then eventually learn to come back together at times when need be or whatever, but ultimately still get on with their solo lives. But never forgetting the good times together.

Because that's kind of how it's supposed to work in life. You don't just, like, plant down roots and hang out with dad and your siblings just living with them your whole life. I mean, I guess you could, but that's not really the way it's supposed to work.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I do like the idea of the group going off to live their own lives then coming back together to accomplish a common goal. I mean, it doesn't even need to be that they had a falling out though that would regenerate the most drama, I guess. I believe the final volume of the Mirage Comics had something like that going on, unless I'm mistaken, which never got resolved.

The concept was as early as "Splinter Vanishes" (great episode with former enemies Rat King and Leatherhead teaming up), even if it was just temporary.

[Coola Yagami]

I do like the silly concept that just because someone leaves all of a sudden they have to get jobs. This happened in the 2007 movie when Leo left but why? Was he the breadwinner and suddenly the others had to pick up his slack in his absence? Same with 'Splinter vanishes', he leaves and suddenly jobs become important. Why?

[THGhost]

I guess I do. It's supposed to be, right? There's stuff seen in a closet from previous movies, including the sceptre from TMNT III. Unless that was meant as a simple easter egg.

[superstaff]

I do like the silly concept that just because someone leaves all of a sudden they have to get jobs. This happened in the 2007 movie when Leo left but why? Was he the breadwinner and suddenly the others had to pick up his slack in his absence? Same with 'Splinter vanishes', he leaves and suddenly jobs become important. Why?

Well, in TMNT, I saw it as them needing distractions from the fact they were drifting apart, and were beginning to transition into a mundane lifestyle. Michaelangelo, always being the social goofball, just liked the birthday party gigs. Donatello probably wanted something to help stimulate his intellect...and tech support was not the way to go. Raphael didn't actually have a job, I think, though he definitely wanted to let off steam and feel like he was contributing to keeping the city safe even if it wasn't on a grand scale.

In the 80s cartoon, well, it was just silly fun as usual. :tsmile:

[pferreira]

In the 80s cartoon, well, it was just silly fun as usual. :tsmile:Erm I wouldn't call their father leaving without saying goodbye and then having to fend for themselves silly fun. I was quite shocked when I first saw Splinter Vanishes. It's a bit of a cop out towards the end but it's one of the stronger episodes of Season 4.

[superstaff]

Erm I wouldn't call their father leaving without saying goodbye and then having to fend for themselves silly fun. I was quite shocked when I first saw Splinter Vanishes. It's a bit of a cop out towards the end but it's one of the stronger episodes of Season 4.

I meant that the show itself was that, not the situation. Even when the show got serious (well, the earlier seasons), there was always an undercurrent of cheesiness to it.

[MathUser]

Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." + Winters and the portal planetary alignment Hercules ripoff origin) so I deleted that out and add in the first teaser (the one where they posed with their weapons and Mikey fell from the sky into a garbage container. Rendering takes 2 hours.

I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.


Reminds me of when someone edited Bee movie to remove bees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eagjpMz2hHU

[Wildcat]

I'm guessing it probably should be. They have Shredder's helmet, Time Scepter and broken canister. I wouldn't call them easter eggs. They're very obviously shown to be trophies along with the new stuff.

Reading through the comments some think it's too different of a movie itself but it could take place a long time after the 90s movies. Things just changed and this is what's happening now.

Whether it was officially meant to be doesn't really matter. It works either way.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

It's CGI. It doesn't belong next to the live action movies.

There's the Original cartoon fro 87-96, 2003 4kids, the 2012 nick toon, and the 2007 movie goes in with those.

[Andrew NDB]

This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

[WebLurker]

This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

Turtles Forever establishes that the 2007 movie and the live action trilogies are separate worlds/dimensions/whatever/.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

Remember that show Whammy? When you hit the little Whammy dude and life sucked? Your post is just like that.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

What?

What?

[Andrew NDB]

Remember that show Whammy? When you hit the little Whammy dude and life sucked? Your post is just like that.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

What?

What?

So the director/writer was lying to us all, and on many occasions? He doesn't get to make those determinations?

You're a moron.

[Candy Kappa]

So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

[ABrown]

I guess when I watch the CGI TMNT movie, I don't feel like I'm watching a sequel to the first three movies. The stuff in the trophy room just seems like nods to the three live movies. I'm not saying the movie is or is not a sequel to the other three. I'm just saying it's not the impression that I get when I watch the movie.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

I know, right? That's like saying all of the Firefly comics Joss Whedon has written aren't canon and the Firefly story stopped with Serenity. :trazz:

Medium means jack; writer/creator intent means EVERYTHING.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a

live a c t i o n movie..

moron what?

I never said it was non-canon. Sounds like a bunch of liberals flooding things into other's mouths.

I never said the storyline didn't include anything from the 1st 3 movies. I never said that. I never said the director was lying. I never said any of that.

What I did say t00lboy is that a CGI film shouldn't be grouped with the 1st 3 live actions movies... it is too different.

You're abrasive tone Andrew got you smacked in my post. Glad I got the "you're a moron" reply.

Proves my point... salt just sprinkled from your mouth

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

So, what does "grouped" mean in this context then, and what does being "liberal" have to do with any of this (does EVERYTHING have to be about politics now)?

I don't think we should be calling each other "morons", but I have to disagree with you on this.

[Candy Kappa]

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

That is what you are implying when you are writing this:

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

LoL

Talk about twisting someone's words around.

A CGI movie that came out like 14 years after the previous film that isn't live action like the previous 3 is a standalone.

It's canon sure. Of course it is, but it isn't TMNT #4.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Turtles Forever saw them as seperate universes

[Candy Kappa]

Turtles Forever saw them as seperate universes

TF also showed artworks from the same universe as "separate universes" so that's not really all that substantial.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

TF also showed artworks from the same universe as "separate universes" so that's not really all that substantial.

I personally enjoy having them both be in the same universe, as it gives the 2007 turtles backstory and depth. Its cool thinking they were the same ones who fought Shredder in the 1990 film, or the ones who fought Razhar and Tokka in the secret of the Ooze. Same goes for the 80s series and the 2 part OVA in Japan.

[ToTheNines]

You don't need to gang up on him. He's obviously having trouble understanding.

First of all, RaphaelsIsolation, I agree that it is not a sequel to the trilogy. But saying it's because of the CGI is a fallacy. The 2007 movie has prequels that are black and white comic books... different medium, same continuity.

So the director/writer was lying to us all, and on many occasions? He doesn't get to make those determinations?

You're a moron.

So we've had this same thread pop up a thousand times, and you always just put your hands over you ears and scream "lalalaKevinMunroelalalalaIcanthearyoulalalaKevinMu nroe".

Yes, that counts for something. (Personally I think it was his lazy way of saying that these turtles have a past and you need a mild working knowledge of TMNT going in). You can file the director's saying so in the "for" side of the "for and against list". But let's talk about the "against":

- Not a single returning voice actor or attempt to mimic live action cast.

- Not a single familiar musical cue.

- Completely different aesthetic design.

- Not a single returning original character from the trilogy (Penningtons, Stern, Keno, Tatsu)

- Not titled TMNT 4.

- Clearly takes place in the mid-2000's, yet only 2-3 years have passed since the early 90's?

- Splinter has both ears.

All that right there speaks WAY more to the "writer/creator intent" than any bullcrap answer given to some IGN interviewer.

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a

live a c t i o n movie..

moron what?

I never said it was non-canon. Sounds like a bunch of liberals flooding things into other's mouths.

I never said the storyline didn't include anything from the 1st 3 movies. I never said that. I never said the director was lying. I never said any of that.

What I did say t00lboy is that a CGI film shouldn't be grouped with the 1st 3 live actions movies... it is too different.

You're abrasive tone Andrew got you smacked in my post. Glad I got the "you're a moron" reply.

Proves my point... salt just sprinkled from your mouth

Now I think you're confused as to what "canon" means.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

Wait? What?

I'm saying that TMNT 2007 is canon. They were trying to twist it around that I was saying that it wasn't canon.

I mean who thinks TMNT 2007 isn't canon? I don't.

I guess TO The NInes thinks it is non-canon in the TMNT universe. That's cool

[Andrew NDB]

- Not a single returning voice actor or attempt to mimic live action cast.

They replaced whole voice cast members between the existing live action movies, this seems neither here nor there.

- Not a single familiar musical cue.

False. The Splinter's theme/the family theme had quite a bit of audible callbacks to Splinter's theme in the first movie.

- Completely different aesthetic design.

Well yeah, it's CGI. Though I think we'd have all preferred a more lifelike, Final Fantasy: Spirits Within-kind of aesthetic, I think that was well beyond the reach of their limited budget.

- Not a single returning original character from the trilogy

Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, April, Casey, Splinter. I count 7.

And I'm not sure they could have included Danny, or Tatsu, or Pennington any more than IDW or Nick can even if they wanted to (i.e., they legally can't). Last I heard those character rights were tied up with Golden Harvest or whatever.

- Not titled TMNT 4.

Irrelevant. Even the horrible live action TMNT 4 we almost got with Kirby the Campy Turtle and Julie Strain as an enchantress from another dimension wasn't going to be called TMNT 4, but be TMNT: New Generation or various other things they were throwing around. At no time was "TMNT 4" ever the title to be, in any incarnation.

- Clearly takes place in the mid-2000's, yet only 2-3 years have passed since the early 90's?

Lots of franchises play with time like that. A CGI TMNT 4 in 2007 set in, like, 1994 for the then-today's audience was never going to happen.

- Splinter has both ears.

A particularly odd choice, sure, but hardly proof positive to throw out everything the director/writer has ever firmly affirmed about the film since before Day One.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

And to all you guys trying to make me look stupid about not knowing what canon means or whatever...

This clown brought up the word "canon" and I just went with it. So maybe she doesn't know when the proper use is of the word.

Anyways...

[Powder]

I don't think you actually do understand what canon means in this context.

The argument is whether or not TMNT 2007 takes place in the same universe as the original live action trilogy, picking up where they left off a number of years later. That is what the film was intended to be, according to its writer/director, Kevin Munroe.

You say that it is canon, yet not a part of that universe. That's an oxymoron, it can't be both. It either is, or isn't directly tied to those movies (& it was supposed to be, whether or not we agree or like that notion).

You seem to think that canon means it simply exists, but of course it does, all TMNT iterations do. It's not a matter of discrediting it as being an official entry in TMNT history, the discussion is about its validity as a pseudo-sequel to a pre-existing series.

[RaphaelsIsolation]

Right, but I didn't even bring "canon" into this. Candy kappa did.

So there's that. I just went along with it.

I guess maybe I wasn't specific enough, but what I meant man... is a CGI film can't be grouped together with live action movies. It might have the same continuity or whatever, but they are different.

I just separate them. 14 year gap, 0 Eastman involvement and computer movie opposed to an "actual" movie.

For me they are different. I guess the context I was stating canon wasn't making much sense, but I never brought that word into it.

Like I said.

Thanks for the reply poweder. Your artwork is insanely good as always.

[ToTheNines]

They replaced whole voice cast members between the existing live action movies, this seems neither here nor there.

True, but that was for contractual reasons, I'm sure. Imagi could have brought some back if they wanted to. But they didn't.

False. The Splinter's theme/the family theme had quite a bit of audible callbacks to Splinter's theme in the first movie.

I stand corrected.

Well yeah, it's CGI. Though I think we'd have all preferred a more lifelike, Final Fantasy: Spirits Within-kind of aesthetic, I think that was well beyond the reach of their limited budget.

I didn't mean it like that. At the very least, Splinter and the turtles could have looked more like their Henson designs.

Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, April, Casey, Splinter. I count 7.

They are original to the comics. Circa 1984. The movie didn't come out until 1990.

And I'm not sure they could have included Danny, or Tatsu, or Pennington any more than IDW or Nick can even if they wanted to (i.e., they legally can't). Last I heard those character rights were tied up with Golden Harvest or whatever.

Right. But imagine a Fred Wolf "follow up" series (with way different character designs and no returning voice talent) that didn't even have Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang that David Wise said was hard canon.

I bet a lot of people would argue that it wasn't in continuity.

Irrelevant. Even the horrible live action TMNT 4 we almost got with Kirby the Campy Turtle and Julie Strain as an enchantress from another dimension wasn't going to be called TMNT 4, but be TMNT: New Generation or various other things they were throwing around. At no time was "TMNT 4" ever the title to be, in any incarnation.

Fair enough. Just seemed like they were distancing themselves from the trilogy to me.


Lots of franchises play with time like that. A CGI TMNT 4 in 2007 set in, like, 1994 for the then-today's audience was never going to happen.

I don't see how not. Period pieces are certainly more common than sequels that blatantly ignore the passage of time.

And I think people would have loved a TMNT movie that literally took you back to the 90's, retro soundtrack and all.


A particularly odd choice, sure, but hardly proof positive to throw out everything the director/writer has ever firmly affirmed about the film since before Day One.

Just because the creator says something retarded dosen't make it true. Peter Laird would say that The River isn't Mirage canon. Even though Sons of the Silent Age directly references it.

Anyways, Munroe also once said this in an interview:

---

AV: How does your film fit into the Turtles universe? For instance, is it more of a continuation to the first three films, or the latest TV series?

KM: You know, it’s funny. There’s so much you can do. There’s so much in the Turtles’ past, as far as adventures and stuff. So, when we first started, we were trying to find what we were going to say – what was going to be lore and what wasn’t, for the movie. At the end of the day, we realized, “Let’s just make the whole thing lore.”

Basically, they’ve lived all these adventures, and they’ve defeated all these villains. Now they find themselves without direction, because they don’t have a common enemy to fight anymore. The movie became more about a rebirth of the heroes, instead of an origin story.

---
Source:
http://animatedviews.com/2007/director-kevin-munroe-on-tmnt/

[pferreira]

I meant that the show itself was that, not the situation. Even when the show got serious (well, the earlier seasons), there was always an undercurrent of cheesiness to it.The show was aimed at kids so I feel a bit of cheesiness is allowed. :lol:

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a While the 2007 is canon I've never considered it part of the original movies as so much as acting as a reboot of them. To me the 2007 film takes place in a different canon. Apart from the bit at the end where it shows trophies from the previous three movies the 2007 movie never sold me on it being a fourth movie. I mean from memory it includes the Purple Dragon gang at one point to satisfy the 4Kids generation. Clearly it's not part of that universe but it does try to lean that way. For the 2007 movie to feel as though it was the fourth movie it needed to convince me more it was a sequel and not just a reboot because apart from a throwaway scene at the end nothing about it screams sequel. The film itself is called 'TMNT' which means it's the first in a new series.

[ABrown]

I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.

[ToTheNines]

The trophy room scene? There are more references to Mirage than anything else.

[sgtfbomb]

I used to, with the trophy scene. But no longer. I also used to like the film. But, once again, no longer.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.

[ToTheNines]

It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.

You definitely can't have the trilogy, Next Mutation, and 2007 in the same continuity. They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I always figured that TMNT 2007 replaces Next Mutation in the continuity.

[Andrew NDB]

They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.

They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.

[ToTheNines]

They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.

Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Or rather they are both part 4 (two alternate takes on part 4). But, neither is part 5 to the other's part 4. :P

(I know what you meant though, and I agree).

[Andrew NDB]

Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.

Correct. Though in the strictest sense, TMNT 2007 (since it came after, long after TNM) retconned TNM from ever having happened at all in the movie timeline.

That is, unless between TNM and TMNT 2007 Venus left and all the Turtles' shells and costumes went back to normal... possible, but that's pretty messy business and definitely not the intent. Though it would have been pretty funny if there was, like, Vam Mi's heart, Bonesteel's coat or the Dragonlord's helmet in the trophy scene in TMNT 2007.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If they're the same, 2007 can declare why April isn't in Next Mutation.

[pferreira]

I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.I totally agree with you on that.

[TMNachoT]

The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.

[dragonside]

LOL wow.

From my perspective, I like to see it from the multiverse perspective.

The First three TMNT movies are their own.
Next mutation was disowned, but now reowned. And I'd say thats the closest to TMNT 4.

TMNT 2007 is its own continuity. Now, if they decided to do a proper reboot and make it a quadrilogy, they should started with the shredder. BUT they decided not to because of the 2003 cartoon series.

They wanted everyone to have some sort of connection - old fans and new fans, so they disperse a bunch easter eggs or references, so that its unclear.



Could you imagine the first three films redone in the imagi style? I think that would have been pretty awesome, I liked the imagi version of the turtles.

[superstaff]

The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.

Source? :ohwell:

[Punker]

When I first saw this movie, it felt like a long overdue sequel to the original movies. The Turtles were older, they had each started doing their own thing, and it seemed like that was about where they would be in that universe's continuity.

I don't know if it's an official part of that universe, but I'll always consider it to be.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't know if it's an official part of that universe, but I'll always consider it to be.

Oh, stop it. Of course it's a part of that universe. Here's an only 3 year-old interview:

http://animatedviews.com/2014/director-kevin-munroe-revisits-imagis-tmnt-franchise/

“The memento wall was a way to try and have TMNT play in continuity with the earlier, live-action films,” explains Munroe. “I probably would have done a complete reboot if presented with the idea. But Pete was pretty adamant about not doing a reboot while not necessarily having TMNT play with the rest of the franchise. So, I just took a stand and said, ‘Yes, TMNT exists with the other films.'”

[Mexiun]

Never really thought of that before, i just thought it was a stand-alone movie with it's own story/universe.

I didn't really like the movie much, it wasn't bad but the villian was boring.
And i didn't like Splinters voice, as my girlfriend said "He sounds like a drunk yoda" :lol:

[billbot85]

To me, the 2007 movie always felt like a stand-alone film in it's own universe. I never felt it was connected to the 90's live action films, but I maybe i'd think differently if I re-watch it sometime soon.

[Andrew NDB]

To me, the 2007 movie always felt like a stand-alone film in it's own universe. I never felt it was connected to the 90's live action films, but I maybe i'd think differently if I re-watch it sometime soon.

I should probably give it another watch. It's been 11 years for me.

[skrimaging]

I do consider the 2007 movie as a sequel to the 90s trilogy. Especially the scene where Splinter puts Winter’s Helmet on the mantle alongside all the different props from the past 3 movies like the sceptre and Shredders helmet.

[Diorm]

Fun fact: Over here in Canada Quebec, some voice dubbing actors reprise their roles from the 90 movies. So yeah, I like to think it's in the same universe.

[Krutch]

Nah, I don't consider it part of the same timeline. The tone is too different.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

When I think of it at all, no. It just feels like a standalone thing. I get why it IS part of that continuity, but it doesn't really feel like it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Sorry, but I don't consider it in continuity at all. Karai, April training, doing archeology work (Why?! She had a perfectly good, steady job as a reporter!), Splinter's ear, no Danny, Keno, Prof. Perry, etc. Raph as Nightwatcher and Leo in Brazil?! None of that ties in to the first three, Splinter made it clear they were a family (and April had a speech in 3 about them STAYING TOGETHER) so he would never have had any of them seperate in that universe. The trophy room was an Easter egg, nothing more. Half the movie makes no sense in context of the LA trilogy. And is set too far apart, besides. Nothing about it fits, regardless of whatever tripe a director or whoever tries to pull out of his ass. Even Mikey's and Donnie's jobs were completely out of continuity, given how easy it would be to be exposed in those situations. 90's movie Splinter would have thrown a fit if they were doing that!

[Andrew NDB]

Sorry, but I don't consider it in continuity at all. Karai, April training, doing archeology work (Why?! She had a perfectly good, steady job as a reporter!), Splinter's ear, no Danny, Keno, Prof. Perry, etc. Raph as Nightwatcher and Leo in Brazil?! None of that ties in to the first three

You're telling me you've never had a crazy year? Ever? Where you've dropped/lost your job, had to reevaluate everything?

Pffft.

[AquaParade]

I appreciate the references to the old films, but it’s just too big a stretch for me to recognize it as a continuation of the old trilogy. It feels nothing alike.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Its kind of like Superman Returns, where its meant to be a sequel to the original films, but people won't like it because of the whole time gap/voice actor change/different style.

Sequels which are made so many years later are hardly ever liked by most people, and just ignored.

[AquaParade]

It was simply fan service, because it didn't actually build on anything laid down in the original trilogy.
I just feel like there is no connective tissue there, other than them telling us there is.

[Andrew NDB]

It was simply fan service, because it didn't actually build on anything laid down in the original trilogy.
I just feel like there is no connective tissue there, other than them telling us there is.

That's not wrong, really.

[oldmanwinters]

I saw the movie in the theatre, assuming it to be a soft-reboot of the live-action movies, but after seeing it, all I could think was that "some version" of the events of the previous three movies must have happened in the Imagi timeline. And then the Mirage "prequel comic" mini-series came out the next month with references to stuff like Triceratons (Raphael's comic) and the Ancient One training Leonardo, and that just left me more confused.

[Redeemer]

Sorry, but I don't consider it in continuity at all. Karai, April training, doing archeology work (Why?! She had a perfectly good, steady job as a reporter!), Splinter's ear, no Danny, Keno, Prof. Perry, etc. Raph as Nightwatcher and Leo in Brazil?! None of that ties in to the first three, Splinter made it clear they were a family (and April had a speech in 3 about them STAYING TOGETHER) so he would never have had any of them seperate in that universe. The trophy room was an Easter egg, nothing more. Half the movie makes no sense in context of the LA trilogy. And is set too far apart, besides. Nothing about it fits, regardless of whatever tripe a director or whoever tries to pull out of his ass. Even Mikey's and Donnie's jobs were completely out of continuity, given how easy it would be to be exposed in those situations. 90's movie Splinter would have thrown a fit if they were doing that!


I would agree with you as the trophy room being easter eggs, except for the fact that they added Winter's helmet and Mikey's Cowabunga Carl head meaning that these were all symbols of past events.

April could have gone from being a reporter to being an investigator. I don't think it was mentioned or said if she was a actual architect or an investigator. The reason I don't think she was an archeologist is bc of her lack of knowledge with the material such as name pronunciation. She just seemed more of an investigator.

Donnie always fiddle with stuff in the original movies so I don't think it would be to much of a jump for him to get into IT.

I could see Mikey being a party host/entertainer.

As far as being exposed I remember them being photographed in public..... So I think that cat is already out of the bag :lol:

In my opinion I think the movies are in the same universe not only bc of the trophy room but bc of references to their past "Good old days" as Casey said.

I don't think there is a definite answer whether or not the movie is cannon. Unless the director or writer said so?

[Leofan26]

I thought this was connected to the 2003 series, Leo being away to train and the tension Leo had with Raph just screamed that version. In the 90s films other than that little fight they had in the second one I think it was? Didn't feel like an intense rivalry but a brothers spat.

[pferreira]

You're telling me you've never had a crazy year? Ever? Where you've dropped/lost your job, had to reevaluate everything?

Pffft.Reminds me of this past year. :cry:

Its kind of like Superman Returns, where its meant to be a sequel to the original films, but people won't like it because of the whole time gap/voice actor change/different style.

Sequels which are made so many years later are hardly ever liked by most people, and just ignored.Good points. I also think that the idea of trying to do a true sequel to the original by ignoring previous sequels that come before is something both films have in common...and it didn't help.

I thought this was connected to the 2003 series, The 2003 series totally had an influence on the 2007 movie. I mean from memory don't the Purple Dragons show up at one point?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I would agree with you as the trophy room being easter eggs, except for the fact that they added Winter's helmet and Mikey's Cowabunga Carl head meaning that these were all symbols of past events.

April could have gone from being a reporter to being an investigator. I don't think it was mentioned or said if she was a actual architect or an investigator. The reason I don't think she was an archeologist is bc of her lack of knowledge with the material such as name pronunciation. She just seemed more of an investigator.

Donnie always fiddle with stuff in the original movies so I don't think it would be to much of a jump for him to get into IT.

I could see Mikey being a party host/entertainer.

As far as being exposed I remember them being photographed in public..... So I think that cat is already out of the bag :lol:

In my opinion I think the movies are in the same universe not only bc of the trophy room but bc of references to their past "Good old days" as Casey said.

I don't think there is a definite answer whether or not the movie is cannon. Unless the director or writer said so?

She wasn't even an investigator, per se, more like an antiquities dealer/procurer. In other words, someone who travels to archeological sites, buys or makes deals to bring items back for museums and collectors, and ships them. I never meant that she WAS an archeologist, just that she DEALT with it. But that makes NO sense when placed next to the previous movies and her firm career in television journalism, nor does her seemingly sudden transformation to martial arts prodigy. Splinter never even HINTED at teaching her, unlike in the 2003 toon. So that completely goes against her having any connection to the 90's movie version.

Casey talking about "good old days" seems like something that might have happened in ANY universe he appears in, so that's really not much of a measuring stick at all. If anything, that conversation would make more sense if the movie fit with the 2003-verse, which actually fits, given there were mouser legs and other props that had NO place in the original movies. Also, Karai. The turtles KNEW her, which only makes sense if it was a different world than the old trilogy, where she NEVER APPEARED.

Given Splinter's reaction to the Ninja Rap headline, and the professed boredom and cabin fever they had in TMNT III, I kind of feel like Mikey would never have been ALLOWED to take such a job, nor would Leo have been allowed to leave for such an extended period. Too risky. Splinter in the original three films was ALWAYS adamant about not being seen, lest others not understand. He might have been willing to bend that rule a bit where April, Casey, and a few other trusted friends were concerned, but NOT the general population! It is completely out of character.

In all, having a few props that are SIMILAR to thinfs from the trilogy movies is hardly a basis for saying it's the same continuity. It's more likely an elseworld that had SOME of the same events take place. For that matter, the mouser legs implies that they encountered Baxter at some point, which was NEVER even hinted at in any of the original films! (Even Perry had apparently disappeared by the end of SotO, so there went their only link to anyone with advanced scientific background.)

[Sobble]

I think it belongs somewhere after TMNT 2003 before fast forward before back to the sewers

[ABrown]

In all, having a few props that are SIMILAR to thinfs from the trilogy movies is hardly a basis for saying it's the same continuity. It's more likely an elseworld that had SOME of the same events take place.

This right here. And like how at the beginning of the film, the voice mentions that they had defeated their enemy The Shredder. LOTS of different versions of the TMNT eventually defeated their version of The Shredder, that doesn't necessarily connect the 07 film to any of them.

[dawwe]

I see them as seperate versions but I do see why some people would see it as a continuation with the Shredder helmet and all that. It might even have been planned to to be a part of that universe.

[Andrew NDB]

There is no "might." We know it was because the writer/director told us it was. Over and over and over again, in interviews and press releases alike.

Were there some added visual cues to make fans of the 4Kids show feel at home, too? Sure. But that's all on that front.

[dawwe]

Well there you go. I guess I never read those.

[ABrown]

Here's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, it's not up to the creators of the 2007 film to decide whether the movie is a continuation of the first three movies, any more than is it up to the creators of the first Nickelodeon cartoon to decide whether or not Krang (from the original TMNT cartoon) exists in their universe. If I go and make a film and claim that it's a sequel to the 2007 film, does that make it so? No. Only the creators of the original product can claim it to be a sequel of what they created.

EDIT: Actually, upon further thought, this is incorrect. What I should've said is that only the original creator can claim something to be canon, not in-continuity.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

There is no "might." We know it was because the writer/director told us it was. Over and over and over again, in interviews and press releases alike.

Were there some added visual cues to make fans of the 4Kids show feel at home, too? Sure. But that's all on that front.


And yet, for a movie "supposedly" in the same continuity, it has NOTHING to connect it. Which means the director was just blowing smoke out his @$$ to connect it to something that it ITERALLY had nothing to do with in-universe. Easter eggs in a single scene do not a continuity make. If they wanted it to be in continuity, they should have WRITTEN it that way. They didn't.

[Redeemer]

Here's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, it's not up to the creators of the 2007 film to decide whether the movie is a continuation of the first three movies, any more than is it up to the creators of the first Nickelodeon cartoon to decide whether or not Krang (from the original TMNT cartoon) exists in their universe. If I go and make a film and claim that it's a sequel to the 2007 film, does that make it so? No. Only the creators of the original product can claim it to be a sequel of what they created.

So if J.J. Abrams says that Last Jedi is not a sequel to The force awakens then that means it not a sequel????? :lol::lol::lol:

I just don't agree. If the director says that this movie was a sequel to the original live action trilogy then I think it is. Unless Laird were to say other wise, bc (I think he had a hand to some degree in both films.)

And yet, for a movie "supposedly" in the same continuity, it has NOTHING to connect it. Which means the director was just blowing smoke out his @$$ to connect it to something that it ITERALLY had nothing to do with in-universe. Easter eggs in a single scene do not a continuity make. If they wanted it to be in continuity, they should have WRITTEN it that way. They didn't.

I mean if the director say it's a sequel then it is...... I think the movie has several nods to the old movies. I am actually surprised this thread is still going :lol: curse op for making such a controversial thread :lol:

I do believe that this movie is at least a sequel in spirit. (I don't know what I mean by that) :lol: I think that an argument can be made for either or.

[pferreira]

Here's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, it's not up to the creators of the 2007 film to decide whether the movie is a continuation of the first three movies, any more than is it up to the creators of the first Nickelodeon cartoon to decide whether or not Krang (from the original TMNT cartoon) exists in their universe. If I go and make a film and claim that it's a sequel to the 2007 film, does that make it so? No. Only the creators of the original product can claim it to be a sequel of what they created.Nickelodeon needs to hire TMNT continuity canon experts. I was about to say the but Okudas they're more into visual continuity rather than chronology.

And yet, for a movie "supposedly" in the same continuity, it has NOTHING to connect it. Which means the director was just blowing smoke out his @$$ to connect it to something that it ITERALLY had nothing to do with in-universe. Easter eggs in a single scene do not a continuity make. If they wanted it to be in continuity, they should have WRITTEN it that way. They didn't.But couldn't you say the same thing about Superman Returns? That was both a loose sequel and reboot as well.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Superman Returns at least acknowledged some of the material from the earlier films, though. This didn't. For that matter, we have the VERY glaring changes to April, and Karai not only appearing, but clearly already KNOWING the turtles (and vice versa)! Those are some pretty big continuity gaffes. So is Raph being Nightwatcher, or Mikey doing birthday parties. Imagine 1990 Splinter finding out he's been out literally exposing himself to humans in public, with just a giant fake head to hide the fact that he is exactly what he bills himself as himself as?! Splinter would have a heart attack. Or have him doing flips for the next TEN YEARS. Maybe both. I just don't see him EVER being ok with that. Too OOC. So is sending Leo to South America. 1990 Splinter would sooner chew off his own tail.

By the same token, why would April leave her cush reporting gig the be an antiquities dealer? She had neither the credentials nor the experience. Or even the interest, if one takes her background in the previous movies into account. The closest she came was in III, when she bought the scepter in a flea market- as a GIFT for Splinter. That's the extent of her forey into ancient artifacts, and that was accidental!

Claiming it is in continuity to the earlier movies literally makes ZERO sense, regardless what the director or whoever said. Personally, I think he was just trying to ride the coattails of their success by attaching his film to the original trilogy- which hardly validates his claim. If it were truly in the same continuity, we'd have seen more evidence than just a nostalgic easter egg scene at the end. But the plot itself didn't even manage to show that. It makes no sense at all.

[Andrew NDB]

Superman Returns at least acknowledged some of the material from the earlier films, though. This didn't.

It acknowledged the Shredder's death. What else did it need to acknowledge? Just throwing out references to "remember that time we time-traveled to Japan" just to prove it to people?

For that matter, we have the VERY glaring changes to April, and Karai not only appearing, but clearly already KNOWING the turtles (and vice versa)! Those are some pretty big continuity gaffes.

That's not what continuity gaffe means. And a lot could've happened in a year or two.

Things like...

So is Raph being Nightwatcher, or Mikey doing birthday parties.

By the same token, why would April leave her cush reporting gig the be an antiquities dealer? She had neither the credentials nor the experience.

What are you talking about? She would know plenty about antiques -- she literally grew up in an antique store... she told us so in the first movie. We saw it. The Turtles had a big fight in it.

[Redeemer]

Karai not only appearing, but clearly already KNOWING the turtles (and vice versa)! Those are some pretty big continuity gaffes. So is Raph being Nightwatcher, or Mikey doing birthday parties. Imagine 1990 Splinter finding out he's been out literally exposing himself to humans in public, with just a giant fake head to hide the fact that he is exactly what he bills himself as himself as?! Splinter would have a heart attack. Or have him doing flips for the next TEN YEARS. Maybe both. I just don't see him EVER being ok with that. Too OOC. So is sending Leo to South America. 1990 Splinter would sooner chew off his own tail.

By the same token, why would April leave her cush reporting gig the be an antiquities dealer? She had neither the credentials nor the experience.


First I don't think Karai or the turtles knew each other, bc Leo says "I think we are getting off on the wrong foot here" meaning/indicating this is there first meeting.
And then Leo shouts "The shredder is dead! who are you working for!" Indicating he is not aware Karia is the head of the foot at this point or her standing.

Second the turtles already got outed to the public in secret of the ooze. They got photographed and put on the front page of the paper. They didn't even try to hide themselves from the public by the end of the secret of the ooze, so I don't think its that big of a jump and it would explain why "Cowabunga Carl" is so popular.

Finally third April being an antique dealer is not that far of a stretch sense she grew up and ran an antique shop "2nd time around", so she does have some experience. Combine that with her background as a news reporter/ investigator and running an antiques shop I can see it.

These again are just my opinions, except for the first one I am pretty sure the turtles were not aware or familiar with Karia. Unless someone can correct?

I think we all just need to rewatch the movie :D

[MsMarvelDuckie]

It acknowledged the Shredder's death. What else did it need to acknowledge? Just throwing out references to "remember that time we time-traveled to Japan" just to prove it to people?

That's not what continuity gaffe means. And a lot could've happened in a year or two.

Things like...

What are you talking about? She would know plenty about antiques -- she literally grew up in an antique store... she told us so in the first movie. We saw it. The Turtles had a big fight in it.


And yet, as others have pointed out, they HAVE killed (or at least supposedly killed) Shredderin just about every version. So that's not really a good metric to go by. All it means is they knew the Foot wasn't working for him anymore, so it had to be someone else. For that matter, as far as they knew, most of the Foot were in jail or had been disbanded.

Also, it's a far cry from growing up in or being the sometime owner/manager of an antique shop, to a dealer in major archeological artifacts. That requires an entirely different skillset and professional credentials, like being able to tell real artifacts from fakes, something she was never shown to have. She also barely ever even RAN the shop, with a blunt line to Donatello that she only kept it open because she missed her father, who "loved junk". So she clearly wasn't as much into the business as an antiquities dealer would have to be. (We're talking about finding ancient statues in far off jungles for rich collectors, something she had NO knowledge of in the trilogy films!) She was also still a reporter in the third movie, albeit on vacation, but more importantly, her shop was destroyed during the fight in the first! She no longer even had the antique shop to run!


First I don't think Karai or the turtles knew each other, bc Leo says "I think we are getting off on the wrong foot here" meaning/indicating this is there first meeting.
And then Leo shouts "The shredder is dead! who are you working for!" Indicating he is not aware Karia is the head of the foot at this point or her standing.

Second the turtles already got outed to the public in secret of the ooze. They got photographed and put on the front page of the paper. They didn't even try to hide themselves from the public by the end of the secret of the ooze, so I don't think its that big of a jump and it would explain why "Cowabunga Carl" is so popular.

Finally third April being an antique dealer is not that far of a stretch sense she grew up and ran an antique shop "2nd time around", so she does have some experience. Combine that with her background as a news reporter/ investigator and running an antiques shop I can see it.

These again are just my opinions, except for the first one I am pretty sure the turtles were not aware or familiar with Karia. Unless someone can correct?

I think we all just need to rewatch the movie :D


Um, I might give you the wrong foot comment, though that seems more like a joke on Leo's part. Since Shredder was supposed to be dead (see above for why that means diddly), they knew the Foot were not working for him, but they DID realize she and the Foot were working for SOMEONE, and also didn't seem surprised to see HER there, as though they at least knew OF her. And she most certainly knew them. In contrast, in the trilogy, Shredder not only had no female lieutenants, but not even any ranking female Foot ninjas, just a few teenage girls in the warehouse. In fact, I'll go one better- that first encounter was during a battle between the Foot and the blue ape monster, and the turtles seemed less shocked by the monster than that the Foot were actually still around! Which leads to an interesting question- why were they not totally freaked out to see a giant monster? (Notice they didn't freak out until its attention was on them.)

I'll pose a theory here, which is that this film is closer to the 2003 series continuity, given that there were also mouser parts and other items from that series (or Mirage) in the trophy room. Both Mirage and 2003 had them in space, time-travel, and dealing with monsters and supernatural beings on a fairly regular basis, so their reaction seems much more in line with that. The most the 90's films had were the time scepter and Tokka and Rahzar. Even the Utroms seem unlikely there, considering that the TCRI became TGRI in them. (That would imply that the cosmic/alien aspect/element of the company is missing.) Shredder is still dead here, so it's feasible that was his helmet from that world, or one very like it. Same with the scepter, which is also whole, unlike at the end of TMNT III, where it was melted. My bet is that scepter was from an incident involving Renet.....

As for Mikey, that dance club scene was pretty much made clear that the people all thought it was some kind of show or publicity stunt. Even the stage manager thought someone had hired them to show up. And Splinter made his feelings that they should have "practiced harder" quite plain, bad joke notwithstanding. Cowabunga Carl was pretty much the opposite of what he wanted of them, even AFTER they got exposed! (And the third movie opens with them having been kept underground for an extended period, probably to avoid any further incidents. Raph even comments that "nobody even knows we're alive down here!" And is obviously bored and frustrated from long confinement after having more freedom in the second movie. Splinter had apparently "grounded" them. Nothing about any of that fits with Leo going to South America (why there, of all places?) or Raph becoming a vigilante like Casey, or Mikey risking full exposure by posing as a birthday party performer. Donnie I might give a pass, since his job could hide behind a computer screne and a phone line. But it just doesn't make sense for Splinter to let them risk getting discovered. (AGAIN!)

[ABrown]

So if J.J. Abrams says that Last Jedi is not a sequel to The force awakens then that means it not a sequel????? :lol::lol::lol:

I just don't agree. If the director says that this movie was a sequel to the original live action trilogy then I think it is. Unless Laird were to say other wise, bc (I think he had a hand to some degree in both films.)

You're right, what I wrote was incorrect, and as such I've made an edit to that post. What I should've said is that only the original creator can make anything that is "canon", not "in-continuity". And yes, that being the case, I don't consider any of the new Star Wars movies to be canon.

[pferreira]

And yes, that being the case, I don't consider any of the new Star Wars movies to be canon.If this site allowed thumbs up I would for this comment. :D