Gotham Showrunner is an Idiot?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

http://screenrant.com/gotham-bruno-heller-superheroes-tv/

"I don’t think superheroes work very well on TV, probably because of the costume thing. … TV is about real people and faces, and not so much about magic and the supernatural things."

I find this incredibly hypocritical. I've made no bones about my disgust for this show. Maybe if he didn't want to tell a superhero story, he should try focusing on a grounded believable GCPD-focused story. But I guess that's too hard for him.

But hey, somebody tell The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Supergirl that superheroes don't work very well on TV. :trolleye:

[snake]

Wow. An idiot for sure. The main problem is budget though. And for me, no show except maybe the flash really feels like an actual comic book.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Wow. An idiot for sure. The main problem is budget though. And for me, no show except maybe the flash really feels like an actual comic book.

I don't like Supergirl myself, and I had serious issues with Legends of Tomorrow. But the characters are not the problem; the costumes and "real people and faces" are not the problem.

His points are absurd. And his show is absurd. Blaming "superheroes" for his supervillains-heavy Schumacher/Burton "Gorbatman" show reeks of desperation.

[Andrew NDB]

I have no idea who this guy is or what his show is about. I think all of Batman's villains becoming the villains while he's a 10 year old? And I think I read Harley's joining the show now? Dunno, it all sounds pretty ass to me. Do people actually dig it?

[BubblyShell22]

I liked the show in season one, but season two got out of control for me, so I gave up on it. But what he says is really stupid anyway. Superhero shows do work if done correctly and he's going about it the wrong way.

[snake]

I have no idea who this guy is or what his show is about. I think all of Batman's villains becoming the villains while he's a 10 year old? And I think I read Harley's joining the show now? Dunno, it all sounds pretty ass to me. Do people actually dig it?

I watched the first 6 episodes or so. Didn't stick with me. I just want a new batman show.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I have no idea who this guy is or what his show is about. I think all of Batman's villains becoming the villains while he's a 10 year old? And I think I read Harley's joining the show now? Dunno, it all sounds pretty ass to me. Do people actually dig it?

The first few episodes had some promise with Gordon, Bullock, Fish Mooney, and Penguin. But it just kept getting weirder and weirder...

Think the bastard offspring of Schumacher and Burton, with every possible Batman enemy (Ivy, Riddler, Azrael, Order of Saint Dumas, Hugo Strange, Clayface, Hatter...) coming to fruition before Bruce even hits puberty.

It's astonishing how bad it is. Is this what Superman fans had to deal with when Smallville was a thing?

[Candy Kappa]

The episodes I've seen of season 1 have been pretty fun. Gordon dealing with the corruption in the GCPD, Penguin's rise in power. And the best part, a rough and tumble Alfred.

[snake]

Did they kill off Fish Mooney yet? She was kind of interesting

[plastroncafe]

It's astonishing how bad it is. Is this what Superman fans had to deal with when Smallville was a thing?

Maybe towards the middle of its run, but I really dug the first few seasons of Smallville, and heard that the final few were excellent as well.

Of course....I'm not a Supes fan so mileage is certainly going to vary on this one.

I haven't seen any of Gotham, since it wasn't Gotham Central I never felt a need to watch.

[snake]

Big superman fan. Not a fan of Smallvile at all. I guess it's entertaining if you're into drama but if you're looking for a Superman show, you're in the wrong place. My ideal show would be Superman, Lois, and Jonathan living as a family, basically adapting the current rebirth story into a tv show.

[Powder]

Do people actually dig it?

Some people use poop as a lubricant, you can't judge the merit of something by whether or not people dig it. :tlol:

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I can't believe people care one iota about Gotham. The writing is awful. I honestly don't understand why someone would be satisfied in writing something so stupid. You have a chance to get your script to be seen on screen by millions, and you write something as stupid as Gotham.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I can't believe people care one iota about Gotham. The writing is awful. I honestly don't understand why someone would be satisfied in writing something so stupid. You have a chance to get your script to be seen on screen by millions, and you write something as stupid as Gotham.

I can't believe you put so much time and effort into a "Not-Batman" Batman show. Just spend the extra money, kiss the asses you gotta kiss, and make a damn Batman show.

Go to that much trouble, do it right.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

The problem with making a Batman show is that it conflicts with their DC cinematic universe. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator with these things.
People can't be trusted to understand that there's 'movie Batman' and 'TV Batman'.

[Candy Kappa]

But there's a TV Superman and a Movie Superman...

[TheSkeletonMan939]

But there's a TV Superman and a Movie Superman...

Only because the CWVerse is enough of its own thing (they have like five shows now, right?) that they're slowly allowing elements from the films to bleed into that.
With a standalone show like Gotham, I don't think they're confident enough to do that. Partly because they might be worried a TV Batman could outclass the movie Batman. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

But there's a TV Superman and a Movie Superman...

So let's cancel Gotham and start a new Batman show! I wish...

The problem with making a Batman show is that it conflicts with their DC cinematic universe. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator with these things.
People can't be trusted to understand that there's 'movie Batman' and 'TV Batman'.

I've never bought that argument. Do even executives believe that anymore? I mean, it must be the reason but it makes no sense.

If DC thought for a minute they could do a Batman live-action show, they'd do a Batman live-action show. It's called printing money. Instead of having Benjamin Franklin on the bills, they have Bruce Wayne. :tlol:

[snake]

The problem with making a Batman show is that it conflicts with their DC cinematic universe. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator with these things.
People can't be trusted to understand that there's 'movie Batman' and 'TV Batman'.

Nah. The types of people that would ask that question wouldn't even watch the TV show and the ones that do can understand the concept of movies and tv. People don't get confused with all the TMNT variations.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Only because the CWVerse is enough of its own thing (they have like five shows now, right?) that they're slowly allowing elements from the films to bleed into that.
With a standalone show like Gotham, I don't think they're confident enough to do that. Partly because they might be worried a TV Batman could outclass the movie Batman. :lol:

CW is up to four in active development (Flash, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl) with a fifth (Constantine) retroactively brought into continuity.

I don't think they need to worry about conflicting Batmans. They're going forward with competing Flashes and Supermen now.

Nah. The types of people that would ask that question wouldn't even watch the TV show and the ones that do can understand the concept of movies and tv. People don't get confused with all the TMNT variations.

Yeah, agreed. I think this is an argument only the executives (at the most) believe.

[TurtleTitan97]

"Idiot" doesn't even come close to describing this fool.

I'll take shows like The Flash over trash like Gotham.

[snake]

It's the dumb reason why DC takes characters out of shows when they're about to appear in a movie. So casuals won't get "confused" when they're not even watching the shows in the first place :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's the dumb reason why DC takes characters out of shows when they're about to appear in a movie. So casuals won't get "confused" when they're not even watching the shows in the first place :lol:

That NEVER happens!

Except with Amanda Waller. And Floyd Lawton. And Captain Boomerang. And Katana. And...

Okay, okay. It happens all the damn time. :tlol:

[snake]

That NEVER happens!

Except with Amanda Waller. And Floyd Lawton. And Captain Boomerang. And Katana. And...

Okay, okay. It happens all the damn time. :tlol:

Don't forget how Blue Beetle was supposed to appear on flash before they changed it to The Atom.

[TurtleTitan97]

Don't forget how Blue Beetle was supposed to appear on flash before they changed it to The Atom.

Actually Blue Beetle was suppose to debut on Arrow since they kept hinting at "Kord Industries".

Either way, it's a darn shame.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Don't forget how Blue Beetle was supposed to appear on flash before they changed it to The Atom.

Oh, that's right! I completely forgot about that!

It's even worse that they remove or skip over characters like Blue Beetle, Deathstroke, and Nightwing...

Only to never do a damn thing with them on the big screen after all.

[snake]

That's why I like animated shows. Not only could you do more story wise, but NO ONE is going to think people won't be able to tell the difference between cartoon Superman and movie Superman

Right?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's why I like animated shows. Not only could you do more story wise, but NO ONE is going to think people won't be able to tell the difference between cartoon Superman and movie Superman

Right?

I dunno, I prefer live-action. Animated is great, but there's just something more "weighty" about live-action. I take it more seriously.

Like, we've had some good TMNT cartoons, and some great Robins in cartoons, but I'm still not going to be satisfied until we get great live-action Robins and TMNT.

[snake]

I dunno, I prefer live-action. Animated is great, but there's just something more "weighty" about live-action. I take it more seriously.

Like, we've had some good TMNT cartoons, and some great Robins in cartoons, but I'm still not going to be satisfied until we get great live-action Robins and TMNT.

We need 42 minute runtime cartoons and quality animation and writing. Maybe then people can take an animated show a little more seriously.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

That's literally what the Justice League TV show was. And EVERYONE loves the JL cartoon!

It can totally work. The problem is people like Jeph Loeb forcing Ultimate Spider-Man down everyone's throats.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

We need 42 minute runtime cartoons and quality animation and writing. Maybe then people can take an animated show a little more seriously.

I think the only animated feature I'd feel comfortable telling a non-geek adult to sit down and watch would be "Under the Red Hood."

Maybe that's why I put so much stock into "we need live-action." Non-geeks take movies more seriously and credibly than animated shows/movies or comics.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Just chiming in with my two cents but Gotham isn't really about the villains AS villains, it's about how they GOT that way. Same with Batman. It's an origin show with emphasis on the seedy characters of Gotham. It's equal parts Suicide Squad and Smallville, but much more history-driven than Smallville was. The characters have grown and changed. Sure some episodes are a little weird( the guy killing people with the balloon chairs) but it's more about the journey than where they all end up. We know what they WILL become, the show just leads us along the way. I like it- it's different enough to be interesting, and they've done some really neat takes on some of my favorite characters.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just chiming in with my two cents but Gotham isn't really about the villains AS villains, it's about how they GOT that way. Same with Batman. It's an origin show with emphasis on the seedy characters of Gotham. It's equal parts Suicide Squad and Smallville, but much more history-driven than Smallville was. The characters have grown and changed. Sure some episodes are a little weird( the guy killing people with the balloon chairs) but it's more about the journey than where they all end up. We know what they WILL become, the show just leads us along the way. I like it- it's different enough to be interesting, and they've done some really neat takes on some of my favorite characters.

None of the villains are supposed to become villains until after Batman. The whole underlying theme of Batman's villains are "would they even exist without him?" Well according to Gotham, yes. Yes they would.

I mean, hell. Gordon's wife Barbara is some lunatic serial killer now. It's just... if you want to enjoy it, go right ahead. But it has about as much in common with good Batman stories as Batmite.

[Candy Kappa]

The Bat-Mite stories in the Brave and the Bold cartoon are great, thank you very much :P

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The Bat-Mite stories in the Brave and the Bold cartoon are great, thank you very much :P

...

I am staring at you in utter bewilderment. :trazz:

[ToTheNines]

None of the villains are supposed to become villains until after Batman. The whole underlying theme of Batman's villains are "would they even exist without him?" Well according to Gotham, yes. Yes they would.

Boom. That's why I wrote the show off the second I heard about it. Then it ended up being putrid filth on top of its fundamental misunderstanding of its source material.

[Candy Kappa]

...

I am staring at you in utter bewilderment. :trazz:

Emperor Joker! episode says it all.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

YMMV of course but obviously they already existed. I tink the question in this show is really more of what would they be like as people if not tangled up in his life and Gordon's. The two driving forces throughout the series have been Gordon's investigation and Bruce wanting to clean up Wayne Enterprises. Which has unearthed a slew of cans of worms that never would have been opened, like Hugo's nasty secret lab and Ed turning psycho. I'm not married to the idea of Bats pre-dating all of them, I see this as sort of a symbiotic kind of origin. Which came first, the Penguin or the Bat? Does it matter? Is the Joker an urban legend kind of loony like the Red Hood, or can there be only ONE? He's never had a SET origin before- I think they were trying to capitalize on that with Jerome. Where did Ivy get her obsession with plants? These questions are what the show attempts to answer. Burton dabbled with the idea a bit, and Gotham took it and ran with it.

[Andrew NDB]

Where did Ivy get her obsession with plants?

Who cares? It doesn't belong in a show about Young Bruce.

[CyberCubed]

I'm just baffled that the first live-action "Batman" TV series since the 1960's Adam West show is.....this.

Its bizarre we've never had another Batman live-action show in 50 years.

[Wesley]

Just chiming in with my two cents but Gotham isn't really about the villains AS villains, it's about how they GOT that way. Same with Batman. It's an origin show with emphasis on the seedy characters of Gotham. It's equal parts Suicide Squad and Smallville, but much more history-driven than Smallville was. The characters have grown and changed. Sure some episodes are a little weird( the guy killing people with the balloon chairs) but it's more about the journey than where they all end up. We know what they WILL become, the show just leads us along the way. I like it- it's different enough to be interesting, and they've done some really neat takes on some of my favorite characters.

Agreed. Gotham isn't one of the best shows out there, but I think it is interesting to watch. Also, I like how it has explored ideas such as moral ambiguity.

[BubblyShell22]

Snake, Fish was killed at the end of season one which was a shame as I really liked her and thought she had promise. Same thing happened with Jerome who I thought they could have developed more and thought he was going to be the Joker. I tried to stay with it after that, but I lost interest and just don't care about it anymore.

I think it would have been better if season one had started with young Bruce and then have the other seasons with Bruce as older and just starting to become Batman and his vow to rid the city of crime and to find his parents' killer.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Who cares? It doesn't belong in a show about Young Bruce.


Bruce isn't even really the main character though. Gordon is. And Bullock, Penguin, and THEN Bruce. He's not Batman YET- he's just a piece of the puzzle that makes up Gotham City. Most of the show revolves around Jim and the GCPD.


Snake, Fish was killed at the end of season one which was a shame as I really liked her and thought she had promise. Same thing happened with Jerome who I thought they could have developed more and thought he was going to be the Joker. I tried to stay with it after that, but I lost interest and just don't care about it anymore.

I think it would have been better if season one had started with young Bruce and then have the other seasons with Bruce as older and just starting to become Batman and his vow to rid the city of crime and to find his parents' killer.


As the last couple of episodes of season two revealed, Fish is NOT dead. Well, she WAS, but she got better- courtesy of Hugo and his freak-show lab experiments. She even has powers now. And what you suggested is EXACTLY what the show is doing. Bruce IS growing up, getting older and becoming Batman- he already found the cave and his dad's secret files- but it is a long journey and it doesn't happen overnight. It's already been two years in world. But again, the show is GOTHAM- not Batman Begins. It is about the city and it's problems as much as it is about him. More so, even. Maybe it should have been called GCPD, but that's really just semantics. I like what they've done, and now with so many of the future villains now loose, I think we will see more of Bruce's involvement as the new season progresses. He's not there yet, but he's learning. And showing some of the fearlessness and intelligence that make Batman later.

[CyberCubed]

Gotham sucks. When its canceled I'll do a little dance with a jig.

[ranger_scout]

As I stated in another topic I gave up on Gotham after four episodes in its first season. I found all of the adult female characters in season one except for Jada Pinkett Smith's horribly written. It was also completely stupid of the writers and creators to have a love-triangle between Jim, Barbara, and Renee at the very beginning of a new series. It was so forced and sloppy. I later read that the show is now all about villains and everyone is miserable. Why would zi want to tune into a show like that now after going through some emotional struggles in the late winter and early spring of this year. What the show-runner says here proves that I was to stop watching it.

[BubblyShell22]

Bruce isn't even really the main character though. Gordon is. And Bullock, Penguin, and THEN Bruce. He's not Batman YET- he's just a piece of the puzzle that makes up Gotham City. Most of the show revolves around Jim and the GCPD.





As the last couple of episodes of season two revealed, Fish is NOT dead. Well, she WAS, but she got better- courtesy of Hugo and his freak-show lab experiments. She even has powers now. And what you suggested is EXACTLY what the show is doing. Bruce IS growing up, getting older and becoming Batman- he already found the cave and his dad's secret files- but it is a long journey and it doesn't happen overnight. It's already been two years in world. But again, the show is GOTHAM- not Batman Begins. It is about the city and it's problems as much as it is about him. More so, even. Maybe it should have been called GCPD, but that's really just semantics. I like what they've done, and now with so many of the future villains now loose, I think we will see more of Bruce's involvement as the new season progresses. He's not there yet, but he's learning. And showing some of the fearlessness and intelligence that make Batman later.

Well, that's fine, but they should have brought her back sooner. I'm still not going to watch it anymore. I'd rather watch wrestling since that's getting interesting again. Only reason I watched Gotham was because I was curious about it and WWE just wasn't that good at the time for me to invest three hours to watch it. Now that has changed.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You probably stopped watching too soon, then. They've had hints and glimpses of her returning several times over season two- as part of Hugo's "menagerie". It was also known from some interviews that she gave that she would be coming back.

[raph27]

So Gotham never got any better? I quit after the pilot episode when they were being so stupidly obvious about which Batman villains the characters would turn into.

Whatever. I've been trying to catch up with the CWverse (I've seen seasons 1-3 of Arrow and the first seasons of Flash and Supergirl, now starting on Arrow S4 and Flash S2) and it's blown away my expectations. Why on earth is DC's universe made of a couple small TV shows great when their million dollar movie universe sucks?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So Gotham never got any better? I quit after the pilot episode when they were being so stupidly obvious about which Batman villains the characters would turn into.

Whatever. I've been trying to catch up with the CWverse (I've seen seasons 1-3 of Arrow and the first seasons of Flash and Supergirl, now starting on Arrow S4 and Flash S2) and it's blown away my expectations. Why on earth is DC's universe made of a couple small TV shows great when their million dollar movie universe sucks?

Arrow Season 4 is miserable, FYI. I'd advise calling it quits.

[Chris]

That's why I like animated shows. Not only could you do more story wise, but NO ONE is going to think people won't be able to tell the difference between cartoon Superman and movie Superman

Right?

To be fair they actually did this back in the JL cartoon - only Batman appeared as the rights for all the others were tied up with The Batman cartoon and even that had certain characters embargoed due to their use in the Nolan films at the time.

Totally stupid situation which, thankfully, seems like it's ending now we're getting a new TV Superman. All it took was WB/Snyder screwing up their potential billion dollar franchise but at least the embargoes seem to be ending now :lol:

[BubblyShell22]

You probably stopped watching too soon, then. They've had hints and glimpses of her returning several times over season two- as part of Hugo's "menagerie". It was also known from some interviews that she gave that she would be coming back.

Yeah, I probably did stop watching too soon. That's okay though. I have better things to watch now. But I hope you enjoy the next season.

[blindturtle02]

To be fair they actually did this back in the JL cartoon - only Batman appeared as the rights for all the others were tied up with The Batman cartoon and even that had certain characters embargoed due to their use in the Nolan films at the time.

Totally stupid situation which, thankfully, seems like it's ending now we're getting a new TV Superman. All it took was WB/Snyder screwing up their potential billion dollar franchise but at least the embargoes seem to be ending now :lol:

Oh jeez, that bat embargo. I do not miss that! Glad they're doing Sups in both movie and TV universes. They need to do the same for Batman characters other than simply limiting them to Gotham.Seeing a few of them on Arrow has been cool, and I hope to see Batgirl in Supergirl if the rumors are true. I like the whole multiverse approach, if that's where the CW show runners are going.Glad they think viewers of both the movie and TV universes can grasp the infinite earths concept. I just hope things on the movie front eventually get better because I'd very much like to see a live action Darkseid before all is said and done. Just one Darkseid/Superman slugfest is all I ask.

[Chris]

Yeah, totally down with the multiverse! Audiences are smart enough to get it, especially these days.

Definitely want to Supermsn take on Darkseid on the big screen. Really surprised when they said Darkseid wasn't going to be the villain in JL, but at least we're building to him and in the mean time they can do some damage control/course correction for the movie Supermsn and it will be even more epic when they finally clash.

Only good thing to come out of that Bat embargo was Smallville. I'm enjoying Gotham for what it is but I just don't see it having the legs Smallville did. If they'd gone with a young Bruce series back in 2001 then we'd never have got Smallville and their version of Green Arrow which helped pave the way for Arrow and the multiverse that's followed.

[snake]

This thread honestly has the funniest title, especially since it's posed as a question :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This thread honestly has the funniest title, especially since it's posed as a question :lol:

Thank you, Snake. :tgrin: