Netflix could do a fairly good TMNT live-action show

[Shellington]

Netflix's Marvel Comics shows - Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage - feature a street-level crime story format. While TMNT is generally a superhero adventure tale with aliens and spirits and all, this noir format was how TMNT started out originally and thanks to these shows this more adult-themed format could now work out with more appeal. (And TMNT was inspired by Daredevil, what with ninja vigilantes going up against a mobster)

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The 1990 TMNT film was fairly street level, with the Foot Clan focusing on tempting and entrapping children to boost its ranks. At first I was disappointed because I expected more from the Foot. But over time I came to like it, since it defined the Foot as not really all-powerful but starting out in taking control over New York, and kept the Shredder on the ground handling things with more involvement and supervision rather than him sitting on a throne in a lair giving orders, like how the Kingpin in the Daredevil serial operated.

Do you think Netflix could attempt a live-action TMNT show?

[PApagreg]

I prefer to keep TMNT in animated form since I don't see netflix doing stuff like time travel or kraang right in live action so less Marvel but more Voltron

[Andrew NDB]

Netflix's Marvel Comics shows - Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage - feature a street-level crime story format. While TMNT is generally a superhero adventure tale with aliens and spirits and all, this noir format was how TMNT started out originally and thanks to these shows this more adult-themed format could now work out with more appeal. (And TMNT was inspired by Daredevil, what with ninja vigilantes going up against a mobster)

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The 1990 TMNT film was fairly street level, with the Foot Clan focusing on tempting and entrapping children to boost its ranks. At first I was disappointed because I expected more from the Foot. But over time I came to like it, since it defined the Foot as not really all-powerful but starting out in taking control over New York, and kept the Shredder on the ground handling things with more involvement and supervision rather than him sitting on a throne in a lair giving orders, like how the Kingpin in the Daredevil serial operated.

Do you think Netflix could attempt a live-action TMNT show?

You're preaching to the choir. Yes, absolutely they should. But unless the failure of OotS has Viacom/Nick "scared straight," they have shown almost no willingness to cater to audiences older than the age of 5.

And no, the TMNT aren't superheroes. At least, they were never intended to be and... why would they be?

[Powder]

A show about the Foot Clan & it's origins or Casey Jones, yes. But full fledged TMNT focus? No way, it'd cost far too much to make them look decent, be it CGI or practical effects. & do we want a show where they're not the stars? Eh, probably not.

[oldmanwinters]

A show about the Foot Clan & it's origins or Casey Jones, yes. But full fledged TMNT focus? No way, it'd cost far too much to make them look decent, be it CGI or practical effects. & do we want a show where they're not the stars? Eh, probably not.

TMNT needs its own "Gotham" experiment!
(I jest)

[ToTheNines]

In a fantasy world, yes please. But like Powder said, it would be crazy expensive and ultimately not worth it to Viacom or whoever would be on he hook for such a thing.

[thundermaster612]

How's about they do it like the American Sailor Moon? Half animation, half live action!

No. That sucked. It would be cool to have another live action series though.

[Andrew NDB]

The truly sad part to this is that even while Netflix is reeling in the cash from comic book properties being made into TV shows right now... they would look at TMNT crashing and burning with the latest "film" at the box office and be very worried about even the most basic costs in bringing it to light.

Though there wouldn't be too many costs in a Netflix "TMNT: Season 1," as long as the CGI/mo-cap is limited to the TMNT themselves (and it should be). If they're worried about animating Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and Dimension X they've already shot themselves in the foot, possibly the head.

[Candy Kappa]

I'd love a 10 episode mini series taking cues from #1 to RTYN. Akin to what the 1990 movie did only more in detail.

I do think they could have done it competently with practical costumes for the Turtles and Splinter, maybe shave off some non-costume budget by filming in Vancouver like CW shows do.

It would probably be a bit harder to do the more sci-fi stuff, though. Unless they do something similar like Dr Who and Legends of Tomorrow.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd love a 10 episode mini series taking cues from #1 to RTYN. Akin to what the 1990 movie did only more in detail.

I do think they could have done it competently with practical costumes for the Turtles and Splinter, maybe shave off some non-costume budget by filming in Vancouver like CW shows do.

It would probably be a bit harder to do the more sci-fi stuff, though. Unless they do something similar like Dr Who and Legends of Tomorrow.

I'd love nothing more than to see that. And the business model would be simple... if Season 1 moves the meter, future seasons could be afforded larger budgets to tackle the more sci-fi/time travel kind of stuff. Season 1 doesn't need a huge budget.

[Shellington]

Thank you all for your comments.


There wouldn't be too many costs in a Netflix "TMNT: Season 1," as long as the CGI/mo-cap is limited to the TMNT themselves (and it should be). If they're worried about animating Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and Dimension X they've already shot themselves in the foot, possibly the head.
You can't really have good mutants and not have evil mutants.

I'd probably keep Bebop and Rocksteady around and maybe other mutants too, similar to the 2012 Foot Clan's ranks.

The other-dimensional stuff could perhaps not appear? :-?



I do think they could have done it competently with practical costumes for the Turtles and Splinter, maybe shave off some non-costume budget by filming in Vancouver like CW shows do.
I agree fully with this, in fact with Splinter he can just be puppetry/animatronics since he doesn't fight too much.

[dragonside]

i think they've been at this cross roads before.
After tmnt 3 tanked, and the cartoon cancelled..... next mutation was the next incarnation.

A netflix made one would be awesome...

[Powder]

You can't really have good mutants and not have evil mutants.

I'd probably keep Bebop and Rocksteady around and maybe other mutants too, similar to the 2012 Foot Clan's ranks.

Yeah, you can. Mirage & 4kids say hi.

Ew, you got that formula backwards. Keep the sci-fi, ditch B&R. They have no place in a live-action universe.

[Andrew NDB]

You can't really have good mutants and not have evil mutants.

*facepalm*

Yes. Yes, you can.

[Aaronardo]

You can't really have good mutants and not have evil mutants.

I'd probably keep Bebop and Rocksteady around and maybe other mutants too, similar to the 2012 Foot Clan's ranks.

Words fail me. The sad thing is people with your very opinion are the people pulling all the strings at Viacom, and it's killing the franchise quicker than they killed Avatar.

[TurtleTitan97]

Unless there was an incredibly good budget behind this, this idea would never work.

[ProactiveMan]

I'm not sure Viacom would want a first run show on a network they don't own. I think it's technically possible to do it with rubber suits on TV, but it would cost a lot, and I'm not sure the audience is there for a mature rated TMNT show.

[Jephael]

A writing buddy and I are actually thinking about pitching some of our own original show ideas to Netflix down the road. If by some crazy miracle things worked out and we got some clout with them, it'd be fun to use my Archie comics based idea that I posted in this other thread - http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1624710&postcount=11

Of course I seriously doubt it would work in live action format. At best I could see it being some form of rotoscope animation.

[LS Animation]

The truly sad part to this is that even while Netflix is reeling in the cash from comic book properties being made into TV shows right now... they would look at TMNT crashing and burning with the latest "film" at the box office and be very worried about even the most basic costs in bringing it to light.

Though there wouldn't be too many costs in a Netflix "TMNT: Season 1," as long as the CGI/mo-cap is limited to the TMNT themselves (and it should be). If they're worried about animating Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and Dimension X they've already shot themselves in the foot, possibly the head.

I don't think they'd be worried about the TMNT movie failure. Honestly, Ben Affleck's "Daredevil" is still known as one of the worst superhero movies of all-time yet Netflix gave it a shot. I do think the timing is wrong though. A series would need time to separate itself from the movies. So if there won't be a third movie from Bay's production company a release for a Netflix TMNT series should come out in 2018 Fall which means they'd pretty much have to greenlight the series now anyway.

I agree that Season 1 should focus on turtles fighting the gangs of NYC with perhaps an occasional appearance of some CGI baddie but overall it's not needed. A human villain (not only Shredder) could work great for the series anyway. TMNT would be a handful to take on as a series in order to get things right and appeal to general audiences but it is possible.

Having said all of this I do think an animated show with perhaps a more serious tone would still be great to see. The current show is pretty much coming to an end I'm pretty sure. They're most likely going to make 1 more season and wrap things up and in this day and age a franchise like TMNT will not take long to be "rebooted" once again.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, they do have ninjas to work with. Karai. Hun. The mob not too happy that the foot is taking their business. Plan it out right and it can work.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think they'd be worried about the TMNT movie failure. Honestly, Ben Affleck's "Daredevil" is still known as one of the worst superhero movies of all-time yet Netflix gave it a shot.

I don't know that it's considered that, and a 179 million haul on a 78 million budget means they at least made a modicum of profit. And Daredevil the movie was separated by over a decade from the Netflix TV series, a whole generation passing by to forget it. It'd need...

time to separate itself from the movies. So if there won't be a third movie from Bay's production company a release for a Netflix TMNT series should come out in 2018 Fall which means they'd pretty much have to greenlight the series now anyway.

True. Which wouldn't be happening anytime soon.

I agree that Season 1 should focus on turtles fighting the gangs of NYC with perhaps an occasional appearance of some CGI baddie but overall it's not needed. A human villain (not only Shredder) could work great for the series anyway. TMNT would be a handful to take on as a series in order to get things right and appeal to general audiences but it is possible.

TMNT Season 1, Shredder should be what Fisk was to Daredevil Season 1, and Baxter could be what Wesley was to Daredevil Season 1 (and obviously, the Foot as the Hand was, but maybe kicked up a notch). Other than that, low-level thugs or Foot goings-on with some Utrom origins/TCRI intrigue on the side. April and Casey intros of course. I could see a Leatherhead episode tucked in there, too. Season 2, the Turtles could get whisked away on the Triceraton/D'hoonib odyssey (maybe with Leatherhead in tow) and return just in time to find New York a warzone. Season 3, City at War. Etc., etc.. No need to root through the children's cartoons like a raccoon as it seems to be the thing to do these days in, I dunno, everything TMNT, though I guess I wouldn't be mortified if, say, Hun showed up as the leader of the Purple Dragons, but it's not really needed.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The biggest issue facing any show, (Netflix, HBO, whatever), is the upfront cost of your four main protagonists all being CGI... or you need really really good costumes.

I've always wished for Weta and Peter Jackson, personally.

EDITED TO ADD: The awesome thing about TMNT is that there are so many villains, you can go in a dozen directions without needing CGI-heavy mutants.

Shredder, Karai*, Foot Clan, Baxter, Rat King, Braunze, DARPA, Pimiko, Lord Komodo, Big Tony and his mob hunting for Shadow, Foot Mystics...

Even bring in some characters like Tatsu, Hun, and Bishop from non-Mirage sources.

That's a ton of great characters with minimal CGI, except for Stockman's Mousers or Rat King's rats. Then use CGI sparingly for Utroms, Leatherhead, a couple of Grodd-like Triceraton episodes (Zog)...

[Andrew NDB]

The biggest issue facing any show, (Netflix, HBO, whatever), is the upfront cost of your four main protagonists all being CGI... or you need really really good costumes.

I don't see why they couldn't just go full practical, non-animatronic suits and just CGI the eyes and mouths. I mean, give me 2 dedicated weeks, I could do that myself with an hour long episode, and I don't have access to a tenth of the tools these production houses have.

[Andrew NDB]

That's a ton of great characters with minimal CGI, except for Stockman's Mousers or Rat King's rats.

Well, the good news about either mousers or rats is they really only need to generate 1 CGI model of each.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I also forgot Cha Ocho in my list of non-CGI antagonists.

I don't see why they couldn't just go full practical, non-animatronic suits and just CGI the eyes and mouths. I mean, give me 2 dedicated weeks, I could do that myself with an hour long episode, and I don't have access to a tenth of the tools these production houses have.

What you say sounds doable; I really don't know much about the do's and dont's of practical effects. I do know that:

#1. In live action, the Turtles have never looked better than the original 1990 film.
#2. Based on what similar shows have done regarding special effects and characters, the TMNT do seem to be a pretty big hurdle. I mean, Gorilla Grodd has only featured as a primary antagonist 2 episodes of The Flash, 1 episode per season. That's the closest comparison I can think of, but the CW doesn't have as much budget as (hopefully) Netflix would have.

Well, the good news about either mousers or rats is they really only need to generate 1 CGI model of each.

Exactly. Quite simple.

[LS Animation]

I don't know that it's considered that, and a 179 million haul on a 78 million budget means they at least made a modicum of profit. And Daredevil the movie was separated by over a decade from the Netflix TV series, a whole generation passing by to forget it. It'd need...


Born in 92 here. I remember watching DD 2003 movie when I was a kid. I got friends born in 94, 95 and they all remember the failure that DD was. Judging that the Neftlix show is aimed towards adults due to the gritty tone I'd say it's aimed towards those who were kids in 2003 and older :)

Besides 179 million is hardly breaking even. If the budget is 78 million you need 78 million to break even, right? Well 179 million gross is the amount a studio has to split with multiple investors and the distributors (cinemas). Cinemas usually get almost a half of the earnings from the tickets. Depends on the deals but usually no less than 40% and up to 70% (rare occasions). Generally they get 50% and the rest 50% is left to the studio, investors and etc. So generally in that case the company which made Daredevil got 89.5Million USD back after the cinemas took their share. Well 89.5Million USD seems like more than 78 million budget right? But you forgot that movie budgets do not include the marketing of the film. A movie's budget is the amount of money it cost to make a movie. Not advertise it and etc. Marketing budgets are often approximately 50% of what the budget of the movie is. So if it cost 80 million to make it's approximately 30-40 million to advertise Worldwide. In this case that means overall the movie cost over 100million to make and put it out there in the World. And the returns were 90 million (approximately). So I don't see how it could possibly actually make any money. Technically in the box office it earned that money but people generally don't know where that money goes and how it is split in the movie industry. I had the opportunity to study film at University and I have a degree and I've had lectures with a BAFTA nominated producer Elhum Shakerifar and I have a good understanding of how the money side works in the industry. That movie needed much more to really make money for the studio and the investors.

[Andrew NDB]

Besides 179 million is hardly breaking even. If the budget is 78 million you need 78 million to break even, right? Well 179 million gross is the amount a studio has to split with multiple investors and the distributors (cinemas). Cinemas usually get almost a half of the earnings from the tickets. Depends on the deals but usually no less than 40% and up to 70% (rare occasions). Generally they get 50% and the rest 50% is left to the studio, investors and etc. So generally in that case the company which made Daredevil got 89.5Million USD back after the cinemas took their share. Well 89.5Million USD seems like more than 78 million budget right? But you forgot that movie budgets do not include the marketing of the film. A movie's budget is the amount of money it cost to make a movie. Not advertise it and etc. Marketing budgets are often approximately 50% of what the budget of the movie is. So if it cost 80 million to make it's approximately 30-40 million to advertise Worldwide. In this case that means overall the movie cost over 100million to make and put it out there in the World. And the returns were 90 million (approximately). So I don't see how it could possibly actually make any money. Technically in the box office it earned that money but people generally don't know where that money goes and how it is split in the movie industry. I had the opportunity to study film at University and I have a degree and I've had lectures with a BAFTA nominated producer Elhum Shakerifar and I have a good understanding of how the money side works in the industry. That movie needed much more to really make money for the studio and the investors.

I've posted that like 5 times about Ghostbusters and about OotS.

[Andrew NDB]

#1. In live action, the Turtles have never looked better than the original 1990 film.

No way, TMNT II way improved the costumes.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

No way, TMNT II way improved the costumes.

Did they? I haven't rewatched SotO since childhood.

[Andrew NDB]

Did they? I haven't rewatched SotO since childhood.

Totally. The Hensons just took the look of the 1990s costumes, didn't f*** with them, and basically polished them up/improved them even more.

1990:

http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-1990-TMNT-Movie.jpg

1991:

https://theiapolis.com/d4/hIJ/i2CBJ/k4/l2DAF/wQ0/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-ii-the-secret.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Totally. The Hensons just took the look of the 1990s costumes, didn't f*** with them, and basically polished them up/improved them even more.

1990:

http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-1990-TMNT-Movie.jpg

1991:

https://theiapolis.com/d4/hIJ/i2CBJ/k4/l2DAF/wQ0/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-ii-the-secret.jpg

I dunno, man... I don't see a huge difference. It's pretty close for my eyes.

[Candy Kappa]

I donno about that. The animatronics was better in SotO, but they feel a lot more cartoony then the suits in 1990.

[Andrew NDB]

I donno about that. The animatronics was better in SotO, but they feel a lot more cartoony then the suits in 1990.

A lot of that is the over-lighting and, well, what they had the Turtles actually doing in the movie.

[Jephael]

TMNT II way improved the costumes.

Whoa, hold on a second... You actually liked something about that wacky movie? Who're you and what've you done with the real Andrew?!

[Andrew NDB]

Whoa, hold on a second... You actually liked something about that wacky movie?

I don't think there's any Turtle fans alive that don't dig the Henson costumes. TMNT II was the pinnacle -- strictly visually speaking, the TMNT themselves, their appearance -- of the TMNT on the big screen so far.

But yeah, the movie was retarded.

[Jephael]

I don't think there's any Turtle fans alive that don't dig the Henson costumes. TMNT II was the pinnacle -- strictly visually speaking, the TMNT themselves, their appearance -- of the TMNT on the big screen so far.

But yeah, the movie was retarded.

LOL!!! That reminds me, are you still planning to finish that episode of Hal and Kyle that I wrote? It's probably gonna be the last time we ever get to collaborate on something.

[Andrew NDB]

LOL!!! That reminds me, are you still planning to finish that episode of Hal and Kyle that I wrote?

Eventually. But it's super low priority.

[thundermaster612]

Why is it that every major TMNT series era ends up crashing and burning?

[ToTheNines]

Because TMNT is a dirty stinking turd. We're just polishing it until it gives us E. coli.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I could actually get behind this idea. A live-action mirage series on Netflix, an IDW anime-styled cartoon for fans of the other aspects of TMNT. Everybody wins! :D

[TigerClaw]

I could actually get behind this idea. A live-action mirage series on Netflix, an IDW anime-styled cartoon for fans of the other aspects of TMNT. Everybody wins! :D
TMNT has something for everyone.

[PApagreg]

I could actually get behind this idea. A live-action mirage series on Netflix, an IDW anime-styled cartoon for fans of the other aspects of TMNT. Everybody wins! :D

Why anime style of all things

[Powder]

Why anime style of all things

Because it would be the most visually pleasing.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Why anime style of all things

It is a good fit for Santucclo"s art style from the IDW series. Very similar, I think, especially around the eyes.

[PApagreg]

It is a good fit for Santucclo"s art style from the IDW series. Very similar, I think, especially around the eyes.

I personally hope for something more stylized, something like Genndy Tartavosky or James Stokoe

[Powder]

In what world would that make sense if it's an IDW adaption we're talking about?

[PApagreg]

In what world would that make sense if it's an IDW adaption we're talking about?

You do know that multiple artist tend to work on the IDW version right and only one of the artstyle only somewhat resembles anime also its not really uncommon for adaptions(especially those from comic to animation) to not resemble their comic counterparts hell if that was the case Teen Titans 2k3 would look more like Superfriends

[Powder]

:blanksta:

[Technogeek29]

Well, they do have ninjas to work with. Karai. Hun. The mob not too happy that the foot is taking their business. Plan it out right and it can work.

I wouldn't bring Karai out so soon and would mostly use Shredder, Baxter and Hun in season 1 with illusions to others, like Leatherhead maybe not outright showing him. I would have season 1 stretch to the Turtles hitting turf drawing Shredder out and ruining his business so they start to cost him money and power. Eventually say episode 6 We recreate issue 1 and have the Turtles fight and kill Shredder so Casey wouldn't really show up until episode 7 if I was doing a 15 episode season.

Episode 1 fight Purple Dragons much like the beginning to issue 1 but stop there and start building the lore a bit maybe introduce April? will include some of the orgin story here but leave out the Yoshi and Saki part.

Episode 2 Introduce Foot and the Turtles ruining a deal between him and rival gangs also introduce Saki, this episode wouldn't really have the Turtles much and focus mainly on Saki and how he operates.

Episode 3 Turtles have a run in with Hun and the Purple Dragons again, perhaps split the Turtles making this one only focus on 2? April tag along so guess she was hanging with Raph and Mikey?

Episode 4 Leo prominently in this episode, with Splinter taking more of an active roll here as they hit the Foot really hard and cause Saki a lot of his control making some of the rival gangs get ballzy such as the Mob and Stockman who I would have in the background of each episode slowly bidding his time to be top dog.

Episode 5 Saki has a foot send out a formal challenge to the Turtles he mulls over what the foot tell him and reminiscence about Yoshi and how he and him were friends and Nagi originally ran the foot clan. This would be mostly Yoshi, Saki and Shen ending with them both being killed by Saki in the end.

needs some work and I think a lot of this might be too much at once, what do you fella's think?

[Andrew NDB]

I could actually get behind this idea. A live-action mirage series on Netflix, an IDW anime-styled cartoon for fans of the other aspects of TMNT. Everybody wins! :D

I'm fine with that.

I wouldn't bring Karai out so soon

I wouldn't either, but I'd definitely foreshadow her. Like, show Oroku Saki in his day-to-day running his criminal empire being annoyed that he has to report and answer to Karai in Japan all the time. Maybe have Pimiko there on the sidelines, sort of filling the Miwa/Karai role from the Nick cartoon except actually have her be his daughter by blood.

[Mewzard]

So, episode-wise, what would you cover? Just the Eastman and Laird stuff? Throw in Tales of the TMNT issues?

Or, heck, maybe make a second series for Tales of the TMNT if the first is a big hit, and cover some of the non-Eastman/Laird stories, some of the short stories, etc.

[Technogeek29]

So, episode-wise, what would you cover? Just the Eastman and Laird stuff? Throw in Tales of the TMNT issues?

Or, heck, maybe make a second series for Tales of the TMNT if the first is a big hit, and cover some of the non-Eastman/Laird stories, some of the short stories, etc.

Fit in tales where I think I can, certainly some fun short stories that could be played with here and there.

Have an episode of Casey dedicated to himself.

[pferreira]

Netflix's Marvel Comics shows - Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage - feature a street-level crime story format. While TMNT is generally a superhero adventure tale with aliens and spirits and all, this noir format was how TMNT started out originally and thanks to these shows this more adult-themed format could now work out with more appeal. (And TMNT was inspired by Daredevil, what with ninja vigilantes going up against a mobster)

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Those title sequences tell me nothing about those shows. I wouldn't want to watch them based on those intros.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Those title sequences tell me nothing about those shows. I wouldn't want to watch them based on those intros.

The Luke Cage intro is pretty boring, admittedly, but if the Daredevil title sequence doesn't haunt and entrance you, then you're already dead. That stuff is top notch.

[neatoman]

Those title sequences tell me nothing about those shows. I wouldn't want to watch them based on those intros.

Have you watched them?