Rey's relation to Luke accidentally revealed by new toy (spoilers)

[CyberCubed]

Oops:

https://twitter.com/WickedSmaaaht/status/813430162633199616

http://i.imgur.com/qUQahJJ.jpg

Heh, looks like someone is getting fired for letting the cat out of the bag. Even though it was obvious.

[TigerClaw]

Oops:

https://twitter.com/WickedSmaaaht/status/813430162633199616

http://i.imgur.com/qUQahJJ.jpg

Heh, looks like someone is getting fired for letting the cat out of the bag. Even though it was obvious.
I doubt that it's real, cause its easy for someone to just photoshop an image.

[MikeandRaph87]

First of all its best not to title the thread as you did as you are giving away a potential spoiler. Secondly, I believe both that Prime Leader Snoke is Darth Plageuis, the master of Palpitine until the movie series proves it wrong and I believe the same that Rey is Luke's daughter until the film series proves me wrong. The person who posted it might feel the same that I do. Its not a spoiler just strong speculation. So yes it could be wrong.

[snake]

You realize how dumb you are, right? Star Wars is kept to such secrecy that not even the actors know what certain plot lines are. Why would a merchandise lister know? I'm calling BS.

[CyberCubed]

Because this has happened before, and toys sometimes have accidental spoilers they're not supposed to reveal yet.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So much for his kid being named Ben. I'm betting on her mother still being Mara Jade. Thirty years is a long time, after all, and it's possible the events of Heir to the Empire COULD have still happened in some form.... Mara hasn't been brought up in the Star Wars movies (yet) but they haven't exactly ruled her existence out, either. Maybe in this "new" timeline she died shortly after having Rey, or was forced to go into hiding and give her up.

[Andrew NDB]

So much for his kid being named Ben

So much for... anyone honestly expecting that. Because that's dumb.

[ToTheNines]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0pegC6VQAAsBgk.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0pfJFGUcAAzKht.jpg

[DestronMirage22]

Yeah, as seen above, it's real easy for someone to Photoshop something like that, so it's validity is seriously questionable. :ohwell:

[NinjaPug]

So much for his kid being named Ben. I'm betting on her mother still being Mara Jade. Thirty years is a long time, after all, and it's possible the events of Heir to the Empire COULD have still happened in some form.... Mara hasn't been brought up in the Star Wars movies (yet) but they haven't exactly ruled her existence out, either. Maybe in this "new" timeline she died shortly after having Rey, or was forced to go into hiding and give her up.

The EU was completely wiped out. No need to expect any of that stuff to show up in these movies.

[sdp]

Disney CEO Bob Iger mentioned they liked they were getting a huge universe of characters with Star Wars when they bought it. They've mentioned any character from the EU may still exist in the new canon albeit with some differences. Fan favorite EU character Admiral Thrawn is now canon and has appeared in Rebels and is getting a new book written by the same author of the Heir to the Emprie novels and he mentioned he'd make a few references to those books.

I'm not saying Mara Jade will ever be canon in these new movies but she could, I mean she does appear in the same novels as Thrawn which are some of the best selling SW books and which fans love the most.

[Shark_Blade]

From her default attire in Force Awakens, anyone could see her similarity to Luke...

I doubt she's his daughter though. The ending scene doesn't feel like father-daughter reunion at all.

[sdp]

First of all its best not to title the thread as you did as you are giving away a potential spoiler.
haha exactly what I thought but it was something I want/seems obvious so I wasn't going to complain.

Secondly, I believe both that Prime Leader Snoke is Darth Plageuis, the master of Palpitine until the movie series proves it wrong
meh, I don't see that happening and not sure I like it either, why can't he just be a new character?

and I believe the same that Rey is Luke's daughter until the film series proves me wrong. The person who posted it might feel the same that I do. Its not a spoiler just strong speculation. So yes it could be wrong.

strong speculation? It's the most obvious answer and what most people want which is why I think they won't go that route and will make her something dumb like the speculated "granddaughter of Obi-Wan". And that the "Skywalker" line continues through Kylo Ren.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So much for... anyone honestly expecting that. Because that's dumb.


In what way exactly is it dumb? That he would name his son after his mentor? That could still happen, assuming Rey is not the only little Skywalker running around out there.


The EU was completely wiped out. No need to expect any of that stuff to show up in these movies.


As I understand it it was not so much wiped out as retconned into rumor and legend, or altered to fit the new timeline in some cases. Up until TFA George had been acknowledging that EVERYTHING was canon, with vaying degrees of "canonicity" depending on what time period was involved, how far removed from the movies it was (ie if it was novel, comic or fanon) and whether a particular detail contradicted some other detail. And the only thing that is technically affected by the changes from TFA is anything from Truce at Bakura onward. IE the Solo kids (Jacen Jaina and Anikin Jr), Luke being "assassinated" (which technically he "was" even if it was his dark jedi clone....), Vector Prime, etc.... The Old Republic and Empirial eras really were not affected. So KotOR still stands IIRC. So should the events from the book which took place between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. (Can't recall the name of that one but it dealt with Vader searching for Luke, and Leia and Lando trying to plan how to rescue Han.)

[NinjaPug]

In what way exactly is it dumb? That he would name his son after his mentor? That could still happen, assuming Rey is not the only little Skywalker running around out there.





As I understand it it was not so much wiped out as retconned into rumor and legend, or altered to fit the new timeline in some cases. Up until TFA George had been acknowledging that EVERYTHING was canon, with vaying degrees of "canonicity" depending on what time period was involved, how far removed from the movies it was (ie if it was novel, comic or fanon) and whether a particular detail contradicted some other detail. And the only thing that is technically affected by the changes from TFA is anything from Truce at Bakura onward. IE the Solo kids (Jacen Jaina and Anikin Jr), Luke being "assassinated" (which technically he "was" even if it was his dark jedi clone....), Vector Prime, etc.... The Old Republic and Empirial eras really were not affected. So KotOR still stands IIRC. So should the events from the book which took place between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. (Can't recall the name of that one but it dealt with Vader searching for Luke, and Leia and Lando trying to plan how to rescue Han.)

You are correct in that everything is now referred to as Legends.

The new story group declared that none of it was considered canon but they could use parts of it in the new canon going forward (like Thrawn in Rebels).

[Andrew NDB]

In what way exactly is it dumb? That he would name his son after his mentor? That could still happen, assuming Rey is not the only little Skywalker running around out there.

So both Han and Leia named their kid Ben, and Luke also might have named his kid Ben? That's retarded.

As I understand it it was not so much wiped out as retconned into rumor and legend, or altered to fit the new timeline in some cases. Up until TFA George had been acknowledging that EVERYTHING was canon, with vaying degrees of "canonicity" depending on what time period was involved, how far removed from the movies it was (ie if it was novel, comic or fanon) and whether a particular detail contradicted some other detail. And the only thing that is technically affected by the changes from TFA is anything from Truce at Bakura onward. IE the Solo kids (Jacen Jaina and Anikin Jr), Luke being "assassinated" (which technically he "was" even if it was his dark jedi clone....), Vector Prime, etc.... The Old Republic and Empirial eras really were not affected. So KotOR still stands IIRC. So should the events from the book which took place between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. (Can't recall the name of that one but it dealt with Vader searching for Luke, and Leia and Lando trying to plan how to rescue Han.)

Yeah, no. It's gone, wiped out. Old news. Maybe they loosely bring back in some EU stuff here and there, but probably not.

[Raph's Girl]

So much for his kid being named Ben.

Ben is Kylo Ren's real name so there's at least a Skywalker descendant with the name.

[sdp]

=

As I understand it it was not so much wiped out as retconned into rumor and legend, or altered to fit the new timeline in some cases. Up until TFA George had been acknowledging that EVERYTHING was canon, with vaying degrees of "canonicity" depending on what time period was involved, how far removed from the movies it was (ie if it was novel, comic or fanon) and whether a particular detail contradicted some other detail. And the only thing that is technically affected by the changes from TFA is anything from Truce at Bakura onward. IE the Solo kids (Jacen Jaina and Anikin Jr), Luke being "assassinated" (which technically he "was" even if it was his dark jedi clone....), Vector Prime, etc.... The Old Republic and Empirial eras really were not affected. So KotOR still stands IIRC. So should the events from the book which took place between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. (Can't recall the name of that one but it dealt with Vader searching for Luke, and Leia and Lando trying to plan how to rescue Han.)

How can you have so much knowledge of the old EU but don't know that it's all non-canon? About two years ago StarWars.com announced it and even posted a video on youtube that said "oh yeah everything you've known and loved is gone" and there were articles everywhere, the logic was that it had become too convoluted and it might clash with their current plans but so far we're only two years into the new EU and it's already convoluted, give it ten more years and it'll be clashing with all the film projects they have anywho.

For me I'll continue enjoying good SW stories and not care about canon, there's already enough content for any person to see in their life to care about what is canon or not, I'll just enjoy the best of the best and not worry about contradictions.

It's really dumb, the old EU always had to deal with straight up contradictions because Lucas never cared about it so if he wanted something in his movies or something that contradicted he did it without caring and the EU would just come up with this lengthy explanation/retcon to make it work and they should've kept it like that. Make a book that dealt with a specific sith relic that when touched changed events in the past explaining away why Leia no longer has twins or whatnot but why destroy so many great stories like "oh yeah nothing happened"

[CyberCubed]

Star Wars like Marvel and DC have to do clean slates and reboots every 20-30 years because entire new generations of fans grow up and are not going read thousands of comics dating back 30 years to keep up with current continuity.

Except now DC and Marvel seems to be doing them every 5-10 years.

[The Deadman]

Star Wars like Marvel and DC have to do clean slates and reboots every 20-30 years because entire new generations of fans grow up and are not going read thousands of comics dating back 30 years to keep up with current continuity.

Except now DC and Marvel seems to be doing them every 5-10 years.

Marvel via Fox and Sony have been doing them, I doubt we'll see any reboots on the Disney side of Marvel for the foreseeable future.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I sincerely doubt Disney would be sending out information like this this early to toy companies, or that they'd ever authorize merchandise to give away a twist like that.

What's more likely is
a) Photoshopped or otherwise faked
b) Confused, non-Star Wars fan employee typed up the name without double-checking

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You are correct in that everything is now referred to as Legends.

The new story group declared that none of it was considered canon but they could use parts of it in the new canon going forward (like Thrawn in Rebels).


That was what I was referring to, and it's a shame they axed so much of the history for the sake of doing something "new". They already HAD plenty of stories to work with for the movies going forward, and honestly I think most fans would rather have seen an adaptation of Thrawn and C'Boath ect instead of a cheap original trilogy rehash with a more blatantly Nazi-esque First Order.


So both Han and Leia named their kid Ben, and Luke also might have named his kid Ben? That's retarded.

Yeah, no. It's gone, wiped out. Old news. Maybe they loosely bring back in some EU stuff here and there, but probably not.


No it was not retarded, because orignally Han and Leia had twins named Jacen and Jaina (sticking with the same first letter theme for names) and a younger one named Anikin (Jr, sort of). Luke had only the one son. That was before the retcon.

As stated before, it is no longer "canon" but it still exists as a seperate timeline a la Back to the Future, in the sense that any of it can still be used with some changes. Still a dumb retcon but it doesn't preclude some things still existing in the "new" universe.


Ben is Kylo Ren's real name so there's at least a Skywalker descendant with the name.


True there is that at least. I find it interesting that they decided to keep the name but made him Han and Leia's son instead.


How can you have so much knowledge of the old EU but don't know that it's all non-canon? About two years ago StarWars.com announced it and even posted a video on youtube that said "oh yeah everything you've known and loved is gone" and there were articles everywhere, the logic was that it had become too convoluted and it might clash with their current plans but so far we're only two years into the new EU and it's already convoluted, give it ten more years and it'll be clashing with all the film projects they have anywho.

For me I'll continue enjoying good SW stories and not care about canon, there's already enough content for any person to see in their life to care about what is canon or not, I'll just enjoy the best of the best and not worry about contradictions.

It's really dumb, the old EU always had to deal with straight up contradictions because Lucas never cared about it so if he wanted something in his movies or something that contradicted he did it without caring and the EU would just come up with this lengthy explanation/retcon to make it work and they should've kept it like that. Make a book that dealt with a specific sith relic that when touched changed events in the past explaining away why Leia no longer has twins or whatnot but why destroy so many great stories like "oh yeah nothing happened"

Not be aware? I already said it had been retconned into "legends and rumors" material. In other words it is no longer official canon but still exists. Much like every retcon ever made by Marvel DC or anyone else. And yes, it IS dumb to attempt to wipe the slate clean just to accomodate a new story that contradicts- basically everything, and as a writer I take that as a lack of respect for the body of work that has already been established. They could have just done a little research to find a story to adapt.

[saintsaucey]

That was what I was referring to, and it's a shame they axed so much of the history for the sake of doing something "new". They already HAD plenty of stories to work with for the movies going forward, and honestly I think most fans would rather have seen an adaptation of Thrawn and C'Boath ect instead of a cheap original trilogy rehash with a more blatantly Nazi-esque First Order.





No it was not retarded, because orignally Han and Leia had twins named Jacen and Jaina (sticking with the same first letter theme for names) and a younger one named Anikin (Jr, sort of). Luke had only the one son. That was before the retcon.

As stated before, it is no longer "canon" but it still exists as a seperate timeline a la Back to the Future, in the sense that any of it can still be used with some changes. Still a dumb retcon but it doesn't preclude some things still existing in the "new" universe.





True there is that at least. I find it interesting that they decided to keep the name but made him Han and Leia's son instead.




Not be aware? I already said it had been retconned into "legends and rumors" material. In other words it is no longer official canon but still exists. Much like every retcon ever made by Marvel DC or anyone else. And yes, it IS dumb to attempt to wipe the slate clean just to accomodate a new story that contradicts- basically everything, and as a writer I take that as a lack of respect for the body of work that has already been established. They could have just done a little research to find a story to adapt.
I was told once by a make up artist from face off that the star wars eu novels were basically fan fiction (right before the force awakens) and then was promptly unfriended.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm sure Timothy Zahn and R.A. Salvatore would appreciate that sentiment. All that work and accomplishment relegated to the (wrongly) sneered at realm of fan-fic....

[Roseangelo]

Oh good. This thread is exactly the nonsense I needed it to be.

[snake]

The EU was sh*tty fanfiction and was literally never considered canon at ANY point. Sure, everyone remembers the "good" stuff like the Thrawn trilogy and KOTOR (Most of the KOTOR era material was decent for what it was), but EU fans never seem to want to admit that there was more sh*t in there than anything.


The problems with the EU are present even in it's so-called "best" stories. The Thrawn Trilogy introduces concepts such as the Y'all Salami, space lizards that are...immune to the force? Jorrus C'Boath? Luuke? What the f*ck?

The nucanon is far from perfect (I'm a proud TFA hater), but the EU is, was, and always will be trash. And the sooner Legends Babies recognize this, the better.

Just try to disagree.

[CyberCubed]

Literally anything Star Wars outside the movies has always just been glorified fanfiction. Some of it can be quite good, sure, but its really not much more than adult fans writing "published fanfiction" in the form of comics or books since they grew up with the movies as kids.

All the people writing Star Wars now or even in the 90's and early 2000's were the original kid/teen fanbase who watched the movies and became adults. Its nothing more than published fanfiction.

[snake]

Literally anything Star Wars outside the movies has always just been glorified fanfiction. Some of it can be quite good, sure, but its really not much more than adult fans writing "published fanfiction" in the form of comics or books since they grew up with the movies as kids.

All the people writing Star Wars now or even in the 90's and early 2000's were the original kid/teen fanbase who watched the movies and became adults. Its nothing more than published fanfiction.

The nucanon isn't fanfiction, as proven by Rogue One and various statements made by Pablo Hidalgo, Dave Filoni, ect.

[Splinter the boss]

Not sure if it's been said before, but I visited the Disney store website, it's true the toy is out there but in the title there is no Skywalker after Rey. Maybe it has been photoshopped, or Disney removed it as soon as they could.

[saintsaucey]

Not sure why ysalimari or Joruus CBoath or Luuke are so rediculous considering clones were mentioned by leia in the first movie? Also why wouldn't there be a creature that could push the force away from them as a defense mechanisim

[Andrew NDB]

No it was not retarded, because orignally Han and Leia had twins named Jacen and Jaina (sticking with the same first letter theme for names) and a younger one named Anikin (Jr, sort of). Luke had only the one son. That was before the retcon.

Yeah, but you're acting like even now that you've seen Force Awakens and have literally seen and heard that "Ben" is the name of Leia and Han's kid, you're still somehow holding out hope that Luke may also have a kid out there named Ben. Because that's what happened in the (thrown out the window) EU.

That's not even... silly. That's just moronic. It's beyond moronic.

As stated before, it is no longer "canon" but it still exists as a seperate timeline a la Back to the Future, in the sense that any of it can still be used with some changes. Still a dumb retcon but it doesn't preclude some things still existing in the "new" universe.

Whatever you need to tell yourself. "Legends" was compartmentalized, snipped off, stomped out and Lucas/Disney have no plans on the books to revisit or continue any facet of it. I suspect that's not going to change in the foreseeable future.

What might still be canon from the EU?

* Shadows of the Empire... and that's a big maybe. Its one anchor is the presence/inclusion of the Outrider by Lucas in the special editions of A New Hope. I suspect it'll never outright be contradicted (unless Lucasfilm decides to do a big "What happened between Empire and Jedi" movie at some point, which I wouldn't put past them given their more-than-unhealthy interest in simply revisiting OT stuff) but I don't think we'll ever see it referenced again.
* Old Republic comics/games/such... and that's only until Lucasfilm/Disney decide to start making their own Old Republic movies when they run out of Obi-Wan and Boba Fett movies and all that, and then all that stuff will be visibly junked.

That's it.

Not be aware? I already said it had been retconned into "legends and rumors" material. In other words it is no longer official canon but still exists. Much like every retcon ever made by Marvel DC or anyone else. And yes, it IS dumb to attempt to wipe the slate clean just to accomodate a new story

Lunacy. Idiocy. There is no way in the holy hooting hell they could have made Episode 7 and accommodated all of the EU stuff.

https://i.yomyomf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/o-KIDS-MOVIE-THEATER-facebook-480x320.jpg

You're telling me the average audience/casual Star Wars fans could have been expected to walk into the theater for "Force Awakens" and somehow just be slapped with having to know or figure out that in the time since Return of the Jedi, I dunno, the Emperor came back as a clone like 3 times, Luke went to the Dark Side once, there have been 2 full scale alien invasions, Leia and Han had 3 kids, 2 of which are dead and 1 of them was a Sith Lord, Luke got married had a kid and then his wife died, Chewbacca got killed off, Millennium Falcon was destroyed, the Empire made about 15 new superweapons and Luke made like 2 different Jedi schools...?

That's insane. Of course it had to be junked. Had Lucas ever had any intention of making a third trilogy he would have ensured a ton of that stuff was reined way back, but were there ever a whisper about it getting made regardless... I'm almost positive there was a very solid, if unspoken understanding by all writers working on the EU that their stuff would need to go out the window.

I'm sure Timothy Zahn and R.A. Salvatore would appreciate that sentiment. All that work and accomplishment relegated to the (wrongly) sneered at realm of fan-fic....

I don't know about Salvatore, but I've spoken to Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson personally (they're good guys and would always reply to my letters as a kid) about how they feel about the erasure of the then-EU they were such a big part of. They both are more than OK with it and completely understand. I even asked them if they'd love a crack at reediting their novels with the Lucasfilm continuity group so as to make them fit and they both basically said, "Nah. The books were a part of a certain time, and now that time is passed."

Nope, the only people salty about the EU being junked are the people who feel duped by sticking with it for so long. I don't blame you, but don't pretend your precious "Legends" still flourishes in some kind of alternate universe... it isn't. It's dead, and it deserves to be.

[snake]

Not sure why ysalimari or Joruus CBoath or Luuke are so rediculous considering clones were mentioned by leia in the first movie? Also why wouldn't there be a creature that could push the force away from them as a defense mechanisim

It goes against the concept of the force and turns it into nothing more than a DBZ-style power-up.

Good post, Andrew. My thoughts as well.

[sdp]

It's ridiculous to think that the old EU is still seen as "rumors" or "legends" that's indeed your way of coping with all the stories you know being gone.

I disagree with Andrew though they could've easily continued and ignored the EU, that's what Lucas did all the time and didn't give a damn and the EU writers had to scramble to find retcons to make huge contradictions fit so Ep.VII could've done their own thing and they should've let writers handle it however they thought would work like I mentioned before a huge soft-reboot like DC/Marvel do where they go back in time or something but yet the events still happened or even take it on and explain away things in convoluted ways like they'd always done. The movies were never going to acknowledge them besides maybe a wink or two like in the past.

As far as the old EU it's full of trash and amazing stuff, but you're silly to think the new EU is far better, it's only been out for about 2 years and it's already becoming a mess, give it a few years and it'll be in the same spot the old EU was, a few references to the new EU in a movie is nothing, the old movies had those references as well. I've been watching Rebels and while I like it; it pretty much craps all over the OT with having various Jedi and using the force to move huge objects like it's nothing and no one is impressed, you have han solo's wife in the comics and the terrible story of C-3PO's red arm.

My main problem with the new EU is you erased a bunch of stories good and bad to continue making stories good and bad, should've just kept everything, its not like anyone will ever read the entire EU worth of stories and you don't need to know everything to understand one offs which most star wars fans check out and have done so for years. The hardcore fans can enjoy their convoluted mess and the casuals will buy anything regardless.

[Andrew NDB]

I disagree with Andrew though they could've easily continued and ignored the EU, that's what Lucas did all the time and didn't give a damn

But... that's a lot to steamroll over and leave to the EU to self-adjust. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's pretty messy. I mean, let's pretend "Force Awakens" right now, the movie we got, hit and all the existing stuff still "counted" as EU... how would that work? Would future novels have to pretend that Ben was actually Han and Leia's fourth kid? Would they just pretend the first 3 never existed? That's super messy, and that's just one example. (would they quietly un-kill off Chewie in new in-between novels? was the Millennium Falcon rebuilt and then lost somewhere? etc. etc.)

As far as the old EU it's full of trash and amazing stuff, but you're silly to think the new EU is far better

Oh, I don't. But I get why there's a new EU and why the old one was junked... and I appreciate the new synchronicity of things with the new cartoons, movies, etc..

[CyberCubed]

As soon as the new Star Wars comics revealed Han magically had a black wife we never heard before and she returns between Episodes 4 and 5 while Han is with Leia and the others....I gave up.

Sdp is right, over the next decade the new Star Wars canon will just be as messy, confusing, and ridiculous as the old EU was. I guess that's the problem with franchises designed to run forever, since there's no "endgame" in mind it just goes on aimlessly until everyone gets bored until the next big reboot.

[snake]

As soon as the new Star Wars comics revealed Han magically had a black wife we never heard before and she returns between Episodes 4 and 5 while Han is with Leia and the others....I gave up.

Sdp is right, over the next decade the new Star Wars canon will just be as messy, confusing, and ridiculous as the old EU was. I guess that's the problem with franchises designed to run forever, since there's no "endgame" in mind it just goes on aimlessly until everyone gets bored until the next big reboot.

If you actually read that stuff, you'd find out that she WASN'T his wife and was trying to con him. It was perfectly fine.

[NinjaPug]

I don't know about Salvatore, but I've spoken to Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson personally (they're good guys and would always reply to my letters as a kid) about how they feel about the erasure of the then-EU they were such a big part of. They both are more than OK with it and completely understand. I even asked them if they'd love a crack at reediting their novels with the Lucasfilm continuity group so as to make them fit and they both basically said, "Nah. The books were a part of a certain time, and now that time is passed."


Going back and editing those books would've been a mess but I'm glad they hired Zahn to write a new Thrawn book that will be considered canon.

As soon as the new Star Wars comics revealed Han magically had a black wife we never heard before and she returns between Episodes 4 and 5 while Han is with Leia and the others....I gave up.

Sdp is right, over the next decade the new Star Wars canon will just be as messy, confusing, and ridiculous as the old EU was. I guess that's the problem with franchises designed to run forever, since there's no "endgame" in mind it just goes on aimlessly until everyone gets bored until the next big reboot.

Disagree. The old EU was a jumbled mess because they didn't have anyone keeping tabs on continuity. With the Story Group in place for the new canon that won't be an issue. Once they run out of stories with existing characters in the current timelines they'll just create new ones within the Sequel Trilogy timeline and pre-Phantom Menace.

[sdp]

Going back and editing those books would've been a mess but I'm glad they hired Zahn to write a new Thrawn book that will be considered canon.

See I would be very happy if this new canon would take the best from the old EU and re-wrote it to actually make sense but they've shown no interest in it and are making whatever they want and already have a bunch of silly stories and inconsistencies so it was all in vain.

Disagree. The old EU was a jumbled mess because they didn't have anyone keeping tabs on continuity. With the Story Group in place for the new canon that won't be an issue. Once they run out of stories with existing characters in the current timelines they'll just create new ones within the Sequel Trilogy timeline and pre-Phantom Menace.

But they did, they created a story group that kept tabs on it after the Zahn novels came out which is why the older stuff was not as tight as after. They divided into different canons to explain away some inconsistencies that are bound to happen when you have so many works at the same time by so many writers and would even go back and explain any continuity mistakes caused by accident, by Lucas who ignored the EU or even to bring back pre-thrawn trilogy stories into canon.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, but you're acting like even now that you've seen Force Awakens and have literally seen and heard that "Ben" is the name of Leia and Han's kid, you're still somehow holding out hope that Luke may also have a kid out there named Ben. Because that's what happened in the (thrown out the window) EU.

That's not even... silly. That's just moronic. It's beyond moronic.



Whatever you need to tell yourself. "Legends" was compartmentalized, snipped off, stomped out and Lucas/Disney have no plans on the books to revisit or continue any facet of it. I suspect that's not going to change in the foreseeable future.

What might still be canon from the EU?

* Shadows of the Empire... and that's a big maybe. Its one anchor is the presence/inclusion of the Outrider by Lucas in the special editions of A New Hope. I suspect it'll never outright be contradicted (unless Lucasfilm decides to do a big "What happened between Empire and Jedi" movie at some point, which I wouldn't put past them given their more-than-unhealthy interest in simply revisiting OT stuff) but I don't think we'll ever see it referenced again.
* Old Republic comics/games/such... and that's only until Lucasfilm/Disney decide to start making their own Old Republic movies when they run out of Obi-Wan and Boba Fett movies and all that, and then all that stuff will be visibly junked.

That's it.

Lunacy. Idiocy. There is no way in the holy hooting hell they could have made Episode 7 and accommodated all of the EU stuff.

https://i.yomyomf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/o-KIDS-MOVIE-THEATER-facebook-480x320.jpg

You're telling me the average audience/casual Star Wars fans could have been expected to walk into the theater for "Force Awakens" and somehow just be slapped with having to know or figure out that in the time since Return of the Jedi, I dunno, the Emperor came back as a clone like 3 times, Luke went to the Dark Side once, there have been 2 full scale alien invasions, Leia and Han had 3 kids, 2 of which are dead and 1 of them was a Sith Lord, Luke got married had a kid and then his wife died, Chewbacca got killed off, Millennium Falcon was destroyed, the Empire made about 15 new superweapons and Luke made like 2 different Jedi schools...?

That's insane. Of course it had to be junked. Had Lucas ever had any intention of making a third trilogy he would have ensured a ton of that stuff was reined way back, but were there ever a whisper about it getting made regardless... I'm almost positive there was a very solid, if unspoken understanding by all writers working on the EU that their stuff would need to go out the window.

I don't know about Salvatore, but I've spoken to Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson personally (they're good guys and would always reply to my letters as a kid) about how they feel about the erasure of the then-EU they were such a big part of. They both are more than OK with it and completely understand. I even asked them if they'd love a crack at reediting their novels with the Lucasfilm continuity group so as to make them fit and they both basically said, "Nah. The books were a part of a certain time, and now that time is passed."

Nope, the only people salty about the EU being junked are the people who feel duped by sticking with it for so long. I don't blame you, but don't pretend your precious "Legends" still flourishes in some kind of alternate universe... it isn't. It's dead, and it deserves to be.


Did you seriously misread my post THAT badly?! I was referring to Han and Leia's kids , not Luke's. The possibility of them having other kids, or of Mara still existing in the new canon was what I was discussing, not Luke's son. How hard is that to grasp? I only even mentioned him because they basically turned him into Han and Leia's son Jacen(without his twin but still a dark jedi) but with the same name as Luke's kid. Clear now? Moving on....

The ONLY reason it was all "junked" as you put it is because rather than adapting any of those earlier stories you mentioned(which would have made more sense to do since the fans already were familiar with them and were interested in seeing them) they went with a script that essentially did what OMD/BND did to Spider-Man. They made the last thirty years worth of stories utterly pointless, I find that disrespectful to the writers who were in many cases asked to write those stories, or who at the very least were fully endorsed and officially sanctioned by the franchise. That includes the Han and Lando trilogies, too just so you know. Books that were written LONG before the prequels and even before all the movies had been released. (I had those books as a kid though I never read them then.)

For someone who is such a Mirage purist you certainly are dismissive of other franchises' lore. This is no better than the Star Trek reboot, and suffers from the same lack of care for existing lore. And YES plenty of fans are still steamed about the decision. As many complaints as have been made about the rather lackluster "rehash" that was The Force Awakens, one would think that they would realize they made a mistake by nuking everything that came before. But of course that was what TPTB went with. It's almost an insult to everything that went before. Tales from Jabba's Palace and the Mos Eisley Cantina both had background on a lot of the iconic aliens from those scenes- but I guess now none of that matters, DOES it?! Truce at Bakura dealt with the immediate fallout of the Emporor's death and the empire crumbling- and now that never happened? You want ridiculous?! THAT is ridiculous.

Your exchange with Zahn sounds like what I like to call writer's diplomacy- when a writer has been given a chance to contribute to the lore of a particular franchise they appreciate and care about, only to later have their work utterly trod upon by said franchise. They probably have contractural obligations to speak positively (or at least remain neutral) on the matter, even though it is basically a slap in the creative face. This sort of treatment is what made JM Strazynski walk off the ASM books at the end of OMD. He was disgusted by what was done to the property- and rightly so! I imagine many of the writers of the SW novels and anthologies feel the same; they just haven't said so openly(and probably can't).

There was actually an article I read several years ago that discussed the Star Wars lore and the varying degrees of official "canonicity". It went from set in stone canon personally endorsed by Lucas, all the way down to "implied canon" that was licenced but considered fan-generated. There was even a system for it, with various works given a level designation with a color-coding and everything. And Lucas had stated that ALL of it was valid- until the new trilogy was begun. And now he has apparently done a 180 and says none of it matters anymore. Yes, folks, George has sold out, and this is the result. For all its minor flaws(I know of a few specific contradictions in Boba Fett's backstory alone) the overall cohesion of the franchise was pretty solid. I'd have paid ten times over to see the scene of Chewie's heroic death over the pointless murder of Han by his own son. Even though it pretty much killed Vector Prime for me(I had to stop reading after that as it was just too dang heartbreaking to finish that one. But it was a darn good book up to that point and he went out while repaying his lifedebt.).

You know what? I really don't even care. The old stuff far outshines what we've gotten so far in the new timeline, and I can just pretend the NEW trilogy is just one big "What If" arc. Because as far as this fan is concerned, it's just Marty McFly and the spoets almanac fiasco all over again in a galaxy far far away.... (Kind of like the new Trek-verse. Noticing a trend here.... )

[MsMarvelDuckie]

See I would be very happy if this new canon would take the best from the old EU and re-wrote it to actually make sense but they've shown no interest in it and are making whatever they want and already have a bunch of silly stories and inconsistencies so it was all in vain.



But they did, they created a story group that kept tabs on it after the Zahn novels came out which is why the older stuff was not as tight as after. They divided into different canons to explain away some inconsistencies that are bound to happen when you have so many works at the same time by so many writers and would even go back and explain any continuity mistakes caused by accident, by Lucas who ignored the EU or even to bring back pre-thrawn trilogy stories into canon.


Yes exactly this. So many folks remain unaware of the attempts that were made to make it all fit. I wish they would have just cleaned it up a bit and used the new movies to adapt the best of those stories. Instead of TFA we could have had Bakura or even the Jedi Academy or Young Jedi Knights material on screen. (How cool would it have been to see Tenel Kaa's lightsaber accident as an example of what NOT to do in training?!) Lowbacca was always a favorite of mine and I would have loved to see the Sun Crusher on film. They could have had an entire series of movies JUST on the kids! If they REALLY wanted to continue the series, that is.

[Andrew NDB]

Yes exactly this. So many folks remain unaware of the attempts that were made to make it all fit. I wish they would have just cleaned it up a bit and used the new movies to adapt the best of those stories. Instead of TFA we could have had Bakura or even the Jedi Academy or Young Jedi Knights material on screen. (How cool would it have been to see Tenel Kaa's lightsaber accident as an example of what NOT to do in training?!) Lowbacca was always a favorite of mine and I would have loved to see the Sun Crusher on film. They could have had an entire series of movies JUST on the kids! If they REALLY wanted to continue the series, that is.

What, with Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford and Fisher pretending to be 30 years younger in all of that? And if not, then suddenly it's Truce at Bakura happening 30 years after Return of the Jedi instead of right afterward?

You realize how stupid that is, right? And if you're doing that, then why not just wipe the slate clean?

[sdp]

They were never going to do that though just how they didn't take into account the Thrawn trilogy when making the Clone Wars or any of the EU that pretty much had the clones being the bad guys with a totally different backstory.

But let's take the hypothetical that they decided to pander to EU fans, they couldn't do it either because the main actors are 30+ years older, it made sense to have Episode VII set 30 years later because that's what their actors look like now, I mean Truce at Bakura is set days after Return of the Jedi. Now there aren't many stories 30+ years in the future so Ep. VII could've just ignored the EU stuff and let Lucas or whoever do their stuff and let them explain away what happened, sure it'd be convoluted as hell but so was Boba Fett when dozens of comics/novels and important backstory suddenly made no sense with Jango Fett in episode II and yet retcon after retcon they made it "work", to the casual fan they'd pick up a book and not see many contradictions.

I really do see the point and understand why they did it but in the end it doesn't matter since it'll be a hot mess soon but the "clean slate" probably got more people to buy their stuff in the beginning enough to make it worth it or they really did think they could make it better. But I'll live in the alternate timeline where Lucas didn't sell Lucasfilm and the original vision of Episode VII that isn't remaking A New Hope came out and we got some convoluted explanation on how Chewbacca was able to escape before the moon hitting the planet, a comic on how the millenium falcon was rebuilt, how all the Skywalker kids disappeared when trying to find a way to go back to prevent Jacen to turn to the darside retconning them and only having Ben Solo instead ;)

I'm still unsure on why they decided to keep re-printing old EU stuff under the "legends" line though, I guess since many are classics and best sellers but if there's a huge fanbase of the old EU why not continue stories? There are enough hardcore EU fans like MsDuckie obviously who would continue and since it's now officially non-canon they could even go more batshit crazy with the "legends" brand. Or at the very least have one final novel that tied everything with a nice bow just to throw fans a bone.

[CyberCubed]

Seeing Star Wars fans argue about continuity and canon is like seeing DC and Marvel fans argue over 70 years worth of comics.

These franchises are designed to run forever. There is no "endgame" in mind. There will still be new Star Wars and DC and Marvel superheroes 100 years from now after we're all dead and buried. You really think 100 years from now anyone is going to give a damn about any current continuity? Of course not, it'll be rebooted all 20 times by then.

What does any of this matter? These are franchises with no end. The stories will never end. Continuity will be rebooted endlessly. Nothing matters.

[Walkabout]

All the EU stuff I ever read was utter garbage, good riddance I say.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I wouldn't call myself a hard core EU fan by any means-though I was somewhat back in the late 90's to early 2000's- but just from a creative perspective it is a huge waste of existing material and loses a lot of history. Yes thirty years have passed but there is enough that can be done with make-up and CG at this point that age can easily be faked. We've seen it many times before. Even with Rogue One, adding CG enhanced scenes of Leia and Tarkin into the film. So that is really no excuse and the age argument falls flat based on what can be done.

My problem with it is that history often IS convoluted and confusing- details of events get lost or changed as time goes on, people's memories of events can be faulty, etc- so much of the "cintinuity" issue could simply be boiled down to bad reporting of history or of political propaganda changing details of events, that sort of thing. And that makes FAR more sense than arbitrarily wiping the board just to doodle in a rehashed plot that occurs many years later but with apparently NO progression. In thirty years you can't tell me that they just went from fighting the Empire (and WINNING!!) to fighting a NEW threat that pops up almost before the old one has been stamped out, and spends the next thirty years doing so with no headway or change. That basically tromps all over the ending to Reurn. It is a cheap, sloppy and lazy way of solving the question of what happens next. "Here let's just ignore EVERYTHING we've got and make a movie that just recreates scenes and ideas from the old movies as nostalgia bait!" That's the mentality behind the new timeline. It was fun, but it felt hollow at the end of the day because it was nothing we hadn't seen before in the originals.

Whether certain characters exist anymore or not is kind of a moot point too, because fans KNOW about them and many wanted to see them. So instead of fan-favorites like Talon Kard (another past accociate of Han and Lando BTW) or Lowbacca (a Wookie Jedi!!! How awesome would that have been on screen??!!) we got A petulant brat who apparently hates mom and dada for reasons, a bad-ass FO officer who seems to LIVE in that helmet, and Luke has gone off to contemplate his navel or something for several years after his failure with Ben, even though he, of ALL people, should know that sometimes even the most promising jedi falls to the lure of the Dark side. Sure, why NOT?

Yeah we got a few cool new characters out of the mix, but at what cost? Thirty years of lore swept under a rug because someone didn't want to do the work neccessary to make it work on film or untangle the threads of history to fix a few snarls in the richly woven tapestry that WAS Lucas's greatest legacy? Years ago, Dark Horse tried to make the comics a tight and cohesive part of the universe that would stand as part of a larger and more intricate world. And for the most part it did. The books had a few more problems because they had different writers who often had not read the previous tales trying to throw in their own ideas, and some of those ideas really didn't fit in. It happens, but that is why shared-world writers really SHOULD be held to a standard of knowing what has gone before if they are going to contribute.

This is my point- why undo ALL that hard work and destroy so much history for one new plot that easn't even original? It stinks of full on sell-out and nostalgia baiting. A cash-grab of the worst sort, because like BND, it only made more problems- and irate fans- than it fixed or brought in. It's probably as bad a mistake if not worse than the "Nu-Trek".

[ToTheNines]

At least we have the Chuck Wendig novels.

[CyberCubed]

Ironic how this actually held true 3 years later. :lol:

[Leo656]

Especially since it was probably just a guess/misprint/etc.

I gotta hit the gym but I plan to read this entire thread later, this kinda thing's always good for a laugh.

[sdp]

Why did you re-open this wound cubed? Now I know how those Misty fans felt on Serebii all those years.

Edit: And we were all complaining that Disney didn't have a plan, clearly they knew she was a Palpatine and would take the Skywalker name and this toy reveals it.

[Leo656]

I doubt it, I think they just grasped at straws and happened to pluck the right one.

Car trouble means I had time to skim the thread after all.

It reminded me that Han and Leia's son being named "Ben" is low-key one of the dumbest things about Nu-Star Wars. They barely ever knew the guy they named their own son after. Madness! Talk about just throwing fan-wank in there for cheap pops without any rhyme or reason. "Awww, they named their son Ben! That's... wait... that doesn't even make sense..." :lol: Might as well have had another kid and named him f*cking "Yoda". :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It reminded me that Han and Leia's son being named "Ben" is low-key one of the dumbest things about Nu-Star Wars. They barely ever knew the guy they named their own son after. Madness! Talk about just throwing fan-wank in there for cheap pops without any rhyme or reason. "Awww, they named their son Ben! That's... wait... that doesn't even make sense..." :lol: Might as well have had another kid and named him f*cking "Yoda". :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe they didn't name him after Kenobi, but after Ben Whatthefuuck, Leia's childhood buddy on Alderaan?

[Leo656]

Maybe they didn't name him after Kenobi, but after Ben Whatthefuuck, Leia's childhood buddy on Alderaan?

:lol: Sure, that makes about as much sense. Why not?

Only semi-related, Walmart over here put out some of the newer Star Wars figures ahead of the Christmas shopping rush. The 6-inch ones or whatever, I think? I forget how big they are, but they're on the retro-style blister cards. All "classic" characters. ESB cards, specifically. Luke, Leia, Han, Yoda.

No toys of any Nu-Star Wars characters at all. Are we shocked? I'm not shocked. Definitely not after there were rows and rows of unsold Rey figures sitting there while "Rise of Skywalker" was still in theaters.

Disney's always gonna swear their trilogy was a huge success, but... I kinda don't buy that. Lucas himself always said that the franchise was about selling toys - for better or worse, he's always been open about that - and all I ever saw anywhere while the new movies were out, were toys of the new characters collecting dust on Clearance. When your main character is the line's peg-warmer... I don't know, man.