LGBT in TMNT

[CyberCubed]

Who are all the canon LGBT characters in TMNT?

The only one I know of is Lindsey's girlfriend from the IDW comics who worked for Null. Are there any others?

[Prowler]

Shredder and Krang from the FW series, obviously. :tsmile:

[plastroncafe]

Vernon, from the OT.

[Prowler]

Vernon, from the OT.
I know you're probably messing but I doubt he is gay. He seemed to have a thing for April. I suppose he could be bi, but just gay? Doubtful. In that Donatello's Degree episode he was eagerly waiting for April to give him mout to mouth lol

Plus he also seemed to have a thing for that woman in the Turtles in the Orient Express train.

Anyway, I don't think there's many confirmed LGBT characters in the TMNT universe.

[plastroncafe]

I know you're probably messing but I doubt he is gay. He seemed to have a thing for April. I suppose he could be bi, but just gay? Doubtful. In that Donatello's Degree episode he was eagerly waiting for April to give him mout to mouth lol

Plus he also seemed to have a thing for that woman in the Turtles in the Orient Express train.

Anyway, I don't think there's many confirmed LGBT characters in the TMNT universe.

LGBT stands for: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*gender.

[Utrommaniac]

Sally has been confirmed a lesbian, but only by the creators.

Given how Ma'riell described Ch'rell, I'm pretty sure he was several levels above being another ordinary loyal soldier for Krang.

[Prowler]

LGBT stands for: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*gender.
I know. Like I said, I suppose he could be bi at best. He did seem to find females attractive.

[neatoman]

I guess the Cyber Shredder is technically trans?:lol:

As for any serious answers, I can't really think of any aside from Lindsey and her ex...

[DestronMirage22]

That one lady from the Battle Nexus in Mirage Vol. 4.

[plastroncafe]

Considering her relationship with Leonardo, I think it'd be safe to say that Mirage's Radical was likely Pansexual.

[Powder]

Michelangelo crossdresses a lot.

[oldmanwinters]

Michelangelo crossdresses a lot.

Yeah, "Wedding Bells & Bytes" got very awkward.

[ToTheNines]

4kids Don, for sure. Probably 4kids Leo.

Nick Mikey, 100%.

[plastroncafe]

I think it's pretty safe to say that every version of Michelangelo is at least a least a 3 on the Kinsey.

[Prowler]

I remember a gay user here saying that the only character he could see being gay in the TMNT world was 2k3 baxter.

4kids Don, for sure. Probably 4kids Leo.

Nick Mikey, 100%.
When has 2k3 Don ever shown interest in males? All i remember was him being friendly with April, which led people to believe he had a crush on her.

2k3 Leo? Why?

I think it's pretty safe to say that every version of Michelangelo is at least a least a 3 on the Kinsey.
If we're going down the stereotypical route then 87 Mike doesn't come across as liking males at all, imo. He's that chill popular dude type who'd be popular at school with girls.

[neatoman]

4kids Don, for sure. Probably 4kids Leo.

Nick Mikey, 100%.

But what about...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bu6PwzRr0uw/hqdefault.jpg

[Prowler]

This thread is so tumblresque.

[plastroncafe]

This thread is so tumblresque.

Spoken like someone who clearly never hangs out on tumblr.

80s Toon Mike was ripped pretty much straight from the character of Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
Dude had absolutely no romantic storylines.

And being a 3 on the Kinsey doesn't mean one has to show attraction to dudes, or can't show attraction to women.
In my opinion any good version of Mike is at very least bi.
I'd consider him pan, given his relationship in the later Mirage books.

Raph, on the other hand. That's a one-turtle straight pride parade if ever there was one.

[Prowler]

Spoken like someone who clearly never hangs out on tumblr.
Well someone had to say that :lol:

And yeah I know not all of tumblr is like that. But it seems to be a popular place for SJWs to congregate.

[plastroncafe]

Well someone had to say that :lol:

And yeah I know not all of tumblr is like that. But it seems to be a popular place for SJWs to congregate.

You say SJWs but what I think you mean are women.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, "Wedding Bells & Bytes" got very awkward.

I think the very first Michaelangelo crossdressing scene ever is in Season 2 of the original cartoon where he puts on the hawaiian hula dancer outfit to flirt with the plant mutant that Baxter and Shredder let loose on the city.

[Prowler]

You say SJWs but what I think you mean are women.
I guess there's more women than men who fit into the "SJW" label, but no I don't think most women are like that at all.

[neatoman]

tumblr, huh? Let's see what tumblr gives us...


http://nodelinquent.tumblr.com/
https://68.media.tumblr.com/30c3df678d13e86e57190792b16f974c/tumblr_odbaesDfVp1qhciipo1_540.pnghttps://68.media.tumblr.com/c920c016f71b1378602b21f8566f2ffa/tumblr_odbaesDfVp1qhciipo2_540.pnghttps://68.media.tumblr.com/2ff24ae78c9e6120cda5b11eab8019a4/tumblr_odbaesDfVp1qhciipo3_540.pnghttps://68.media.tumblr.com/ed3d3fb77121aee81da64111674f3e4f/tumblr_odbaesDfVp1qhciipo5_540.pnghttps://68.media.tumblr.com/4099d4764a9f0aad1f8968bafee05366/tumblr_odbaesDfVp1qhciipo4_540.png

[plastroncafe]

I think the very first Michaelangelo crossdressing scene ever is in Season 2 of the original cartoon where he puts on the hawaiian hula dancer outfit to flirt with the plant mutant that Baxter and Shredder let loose on the city.

I wish I could remember which turtle dresses in drag for the Mirage Halloween one shot...

[ToTheNines]

When has 2k3 Don ever shown interest in males? All i remember was him being friendly with April, which led people to believe he had a crush on her.

2k3 Leo? Why?

4kids Don was super gay for Adam in season 5. And he was always carrying his little man-purse.

4kids Leo just sets off my gaydar, sometimes. Especially with Usagi at Christmas.


80s Toon Mike was ripped pretty much straight from the character of Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
Dude had absolutely no romantic storylines.

He and Kala were a thing.

[Prowler]

4kids Don was super gay for Adam in season 5. And he was always carrying his little man-purse.

4kids Leo just sets off my gaydar, sometimes. Especially with Usagi at Christmas.



He and Kala were a thing.
What about Leo and Karai. Doesn't that set off your "straight-dar" :P?

[ToTheNines]

I didn't perceive that as romantic. He didn't seem to give a rats ass when she ended up with Chaplin.

Either way, could be bi.

[Prowler]

I didn't perceive that as romantic. He didn't seem to give a rats ass when she ended up with Chaplin.

Either way, could be bi.
Well i suppose in the 87 toon his behaviour around Lotus was way less subtle.

[ToTheNines]

Agreed.

I also think Karai and Shini are gay. I'll probably think of a few more.

[CyberCubed]

I called Karai and Shinigami being lesbians from her first episode.

[plastroncafe]

So much bi-erasure, so little time.

[ToTheNines]

I called Karai and Shinigami being lesbians from her first episode.

I called Karai back in season 1. Remember her outfit in "Karai's Vendetta"? I'm surprised her jean jacket didn't have "BUTCH" stenciled on the back.

But yeah, Shini is totally in love with her.

[IndigoErth]

Raph, on the other hand. That's a one-turtle straight pride parade if ever there was one.
I dunno... If people want to point at Leo and Usagi, gotta be said that Raph's certainly got his own far longer and closer bromance with Casey, but maybe the interspecies thing gets in the way. :trazz:

[plastroncafe]

I dunno... If people want to point at Leo and Usagi, gotta be said that Raph's certainly got his own far longer and closer bromance with Casey, but maybe the interspecies thing gets in the way. :trazz:

I could see that with Mirage, for certain.

[DestronMirage22]

Here we go: the first confirmed LGBT TMNT character: E'ro'chk/Soowiiksa.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/3/3d/Soowiiksa.png/revision/latest/top-crop/width/195/height/195?cb=20151003150241
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a2/E%27ro%27chk.png/revision/latest/top-crop/width/195/height/195?cb=20151003150722
As seen in the second picture, she has wifes.

[CyberCubed]

Did you guys notice I made the thread title rhyme? I did that on purpose, I bet you guys all thought that was clever, right? :thumbsup:

[Candy Kappa]

I wish I could remember which turtle dresses in drag for the Mirage Halloween one shot...

Leo was dressed as a old lady in the Don't Judge A Book short.

[IndigoErth]

Did you guys notice I made the thread title rhyme? I did that on purpose, I bet you guys all thought that was clever, right? :thumbsup:
Have a cookie.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x3eXtdboomI/maxresdefault.jpg

https://youtu.be/x3eXtdboomI

[Jester]

Have a cookie.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x3eXtdboomI/maxresdefault.jpg

https://youtu.be/x3eXtdboomI
VKcAYMb5uk4

[sdp]

Every single character is gay, have you guys not checked fan-art on tumblr?

[PApagreg]

I called Karai back in season 1. Remember her outfit in "Karai's Vendetta"? I'm surprised her jean jacket didn't have "BUTCH" stenciled on the back.

But yeah, Shini is totally in love with her.

Well she was riding a motorcycle so I can understand why she has some heavy clothing though I do agree that Shini wants some of that Hamato carpet

Also 2k3 Leo always struck me as asexual.

[ToTheNines]

I thought he was acting pretty gay towards Casey in the beginning of "Dragon's Brew". But yeah, he's certainly an eccentric dude.

4kids Mikey seemed pretty asexual though. He maybe made a few innocuous remarks about April's looks, but never really showed any interest in anyone the whole series.

[PApagreg]

I thought he was acting pretty gay towards Casey in the beginning of "Dragon's Brew". But yeah, he's certainly an eccentric dude.

4kids Mikey seemed pretty asexual though. He maybe made a few innocuous remarks about April's looks, but never really showed any interest in anyone the whole series.

He seemed to act more "edgy" towards Casey in that episode(just rewatched the episode) than wanting to f$%k him. As for Mikey never thought of him as asexual but thats not too far out

[MsMarvelDuckie]

My breakdown-

87 toon: Leo Raph and Mikey- 100% straight (April, Lotus, Mona Lisa, Kala, Buffy Shellhammer, and even Irma) Don- POSSIBLY bi or asexual- closest we ever get is his getting more friendly with Irma in later season eps like Donatello's Degree and Invasion of the Turtle-Snatchers.

4Kids: all more or less straight- Leo seems interested in Karai, Mikey only crossdresses when the others FORCE him to and always protests (same goes for 87- and I suspect they only make him do it because he's the only one capable of pulling off such a ruse due to his girlish scream) Don had that brief crush on April. Raph and Joi; otherwise we got nadda.

Nick- so far all four turtles have proven distictly straight; Mikey has a thing for Renet AND Shini, Raph has Mona Lisa again, Leo/Karai sort of have something, and of course Donnie's gaga for April. Karai could be bi, and Shini as well.

[Ulisa]

Hmm, I'd say the only ones that I thought of as being bi or gay were probably Karai and Shini from the Nick series. The other series either struck me as straight or asexual.

Though, Sam Riegel did state at Saboten Con a few years ago that with 2k3 Donatello, he played him as homosexual because "I assume all my characters are homosexual unless I'm told otherwise."

[Prowler]

My breakdown-

87 toon: Leo Raph and Mikey- 100% straight (April, Lotus, Mona Lisa, Kala, Buffy Shellhammer, and even Irma) Don- POSSIBLY bi or asexual- closest we ever get is his getting more friendly with Irma in later season eps like Donatello's Degree and Invasion of the Turtle-Snatchers.

4Kids: all more or less straight- Leo seems interested in Karai, Mikey only crossdresses when the others FORCE him to and always protests (same goes for 87- and I suspect they only make him do it because he's the only one capable of pulling off such a ruse due to his girlish scream) Don had that brief crush on April. Raph and Joi; otherwise we got nadda.

Nick- so far all four turtles have proven distictly straight; Mikey has a thing for Renet AND Shini, Raph has Mona Lisa again, Leo/Karai sort of have something, and of course Donnie's gaga for April. Karai could be bi, and Shini as well.
I don't see what makes you think 87 Don might be bi considering he hasn't shown any interest in any male. And the closest thing he showed to an interest was blushing after April kissed him or something. Also remember that episode where, at the end, the Turtles argue who April winked at at the end of the emission and then it turned out to be Splinter? All four Turtles argued she winked at them.

And ofc the Irma chemistry thing in Donatello's Degree.

So yes, I'd say straight.

He got lucky he didn't consume that love potion thing, though. But I'm sure he'd be straight.

[Coola Yagami]

Pretty sure two hot girls can be childhood friends and not be gay for each other. I know karai and shini are hot and evil and dressed in black and all that, but don't ship them as gay just because you wish they were.

[Prowler]

Pretty sure two hot girls can be childhood friends and not be gay for each other. I know karai and shini are hot and evil and dressed in black and all that, but don't ship them as gay just because you wish they were.
There's this believe held by many that all chicks are somewhat bi and like to make out with each other at parties and **** whilst drunk.

What Hollywood does to people's perceptions...

[Utrommaniac]

Well, this thread is going exactly as I thought it would.

Personally, I take Leonardo to be extremely ace. His relationship with Karai is not even all that romantic, at least in 23K. He feels a more moral need to "save" her from Shredder's influence than hopes of a relationship with her. Which is good, because 23K Karai seems like she's in her mid 20's.

[Coola Yagami]

There's this believe held by many that all chicks are somewhat bi and like to make out with each other at parties and **** whilst drunk.

What Hollywood does to people's perceptions...

Yep. I heard that and knew a pair like that, but other than that I know tons of girls that are close friends but 100% straight. I think between Hollywood and some of us wishing that certain hotries would go down on each other, most people are too quick to assume some friends just have to be gay for each other.

[Prowler]

Yep. I heard that and knew a pair like that, but other than that I know tons of girls that are close friends but 100% straight. I think between Hollywood and some of us wishing that certain hotries would go down on each other, most people are too quick to assume some friends just have to be gay for each other.
They're like Jerry Seinfeld, who imagines girls are always talking smack about others and having lingerie pillow fights when they're alone together.

[PApagreg]

Pretty sure two hot girls can be childhood friends and not be gay for each other. I know karai and shini are hot and evil and dressed in black and all that, but don't ship them as gay just because you wish they were.

Oh come on Coola, you mean to tell me with the scenes you saw with Shini and Karai, you don't think Shini wants to be more then friends. I'm just saying Shini looks like she wants to be more closer, now I'm not sure whether or not Karai share those feeling but Shini does look like she wants some.

[Prowler]

Tbh I kinda like how TMNT doesn't seem to be as relationship heavy as other franchises. I kinda like the idea of the Turtles being asexual. That or simple forever single/alone. Dunno why but I do.

[plastroncafe]

Leo was dressed as a old lady in the Don't Judge A Book short.

THANK YOU!
That was going to drive me crazy all night!


Though, Sam Riegel did state at Saboten Con a few years ago that with 2k3 Donatello, he played him as homosexual because "I assume all my characters are homosexual unless I'm told otherwise."

This...right here is an awesome quote.

There's this believe held by many that all chicks are somewhat bi and like to make out with each other at parties and **** whilst drunk.

What Hollywood does to people's perceptions...

I'm with Riegel on this one: everyone is default bi until proven otherwise.

Tbh I kinda like how TMNT doesn't seem to be as relationship heavy as other franchises. I kinda like the idea of the Turtles being asexual. That or simple forever single/alone. Dunno why but I do.

This for me is one of the things that makes "Sons of the Silent Age" one of my favorite Mirage books. Not that they all aren't hyper aware of the fact that they're not human, and even if they love like humans, they're still...not humans. And April's realization that some of Raph's more erratic behaviors stem from him dealing with it.

It's why I prefer the turtles be in a universe lacking in other mutants.

[Coola Yagami]

Oh come on Coola, you mean to tell me with the scenes you saw with Shini and Karai, you don't think Shini wants to be more then friends. I'm just saying Shini looks like she wants to be more closer, now I'm not sure whether or not Karai share those feeling but Shini does look like she wants some.

Not particularly. I mean girls usually naturally act more affectionate than guys. Guys can't even hug without saying 'no homo' for fear of their masculinity being put into question.

[ToTheNines]

Cody Jones might have been gay. He was always ducking Starlee's attempts to be with him.

Guys can't even hug without saying 'no homo' for fear of their masculinity being put into question.

That's not true.

[ToTheNines]

Don had that brief crush on April. Raph and Joi; otherwise we got nadda.

Don had Adam from the Ninja Tribunal. His interactions with April never seemed romantic to me, and he didn't care when she went for Casey.

Mikey has a thing for Renet AND Shini

And Bradford... and Leatherhead....

[neatoman]

Cody Jones might have been gay. He was always ducking Starlee's attempts to be with him.


Maybe he's just not into blue chicks?

[AlessandraDC]

I think the only confirmed character is Lindsay in IDW. I could see some of the boys being bi, pan, or demisexual, but of course, nothing confirmed.

[Ceres]

Krang no doubt could be a bisexual, seeing as he had a thing for Shreeka in the past and his current partnership with Shredder conducts that he has a gay root too.

To the topic Karai/Shinigami...its all different views, they can be like best friends from childhood or lesbians, either way is possible, to rule one out however is not really a solution. In the end everything stays a headcanon until the creators state it.

[plastroncafe]

Not particularly. I mean girls usually naturally act more affectionate than guys. Guys can't even hug without saying 'no homo' for fear of their masculinity being put into question.

A yup.
Women and girls are allowed to be affectionate towards each other.

Physical affection does not not always a sexual attraction make,

Krang no doubt could be a bisexual, seeing as he had a thing for Shreeka in the past and his current partnership with Shredder conducts that he has a gay root too.

To the topic Karai/Shinigami...its all different views, they can be like best friends from childhood or lesbians, either way is possible, to rule one out however is not really a solution. In the end everything stays a headcanon until the creators state it.

I don't believe that using human sexual orientations or even human genders really works for alien creatures.

[DisKosh]

Nick Mikey seems to have a crush on Leatherhead (although it would be ****ed up if it were reciprocated). I think it's cute, like a kid having a crush on their baby sitter or something. :)

I don't think you can really pin a sexuality or gender onto it but 2003 Mikey doesn't care about gender roles which is refreshing. He doesn't mind dressing up in female clothing, in fact he appears to enjoy it. That alone isn't really enough to pin down a specific gender but he could be non-binary preferring he/him pronouns.

In the 2003 series Casey and Raph sometimes seem more like a couple than friends. There's this one episode where they're standing there and Casey's arm's draped casually over his shoulder like an old couple. It's really sweet. :)

[Ceres]

A yup.
Women and girls are allowed to be affectionate towards each other.

Physical affection does not not always a sexual attraction make,



I don't believe that using human sexual orientations or even human genders really works for alien creatures.

So this whole thread would lead ad absurdum seeing as this also goes for mutants and whatever else creatures there is in the TMNT universe

[plastroncafe]

So this whole thread would lead ad absurdum seeing as this also goes for mutants and whatever else creatures there is in the TMNT universe

I would say that's likely true for non-Terran characters, but the turtles and any home-grown mutants are still steeped in human culture. Enough that I think it could be argued that such designation/categories would be applicable.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I don't see what makes you think 87 Don might be bi considering he hasn't shown any interest in any male. And the closest thing he showed to an interest was blushing after April kissed him or something. Also remember that episode where, at the end, the Turtles argue who April winked at at the end of the emission and then it turned out to be Splinter? All four Turtles argued she winked at them.

And ofc the Irma chemistry thing in Donatello's Degree.

So yes, I'd say straight.

He got lucky he didn't consume that love potion thing, though. But I'm sure he'd be straight.


Notice I said POSSIBLY bi/asexual- other than the one or two incidents with Irma and April, he really didn't seem to have ANY interest in females, which would perhaps indicate he had "other" interests, or none at all.


Don had Adam from the Ninja Tribunal. His interactions with April never seemed romantic to me, and he didn't care when she went for Casey.

And Bradford... and Leatherhead....


In the first few episodes (before April and Casey even met, and in a few before they became a "thing", Don's interest in her was hinted at being more than just admiration or friendship over mutual interests (science), as he seemed to spend the most time with her. So there has always been speculation that he had a mild crush. Note the word MILD. He eventually moved on, though even in Wedding Bells and Bytes he seemed to still have feelings for her beyond mere friendship.


Mikey- Leatherhead and Bradford? SERIOUSLY??!! Bradford was just plain hero-worship, which is a whole different thin. And Leatherhead is clearly just a BFF situation- nothing more than a platonic "big brother" kind of thing. You've been on Deviant Art, haven't you?


Nick Mikey seems to have a crush on Leatherhead (although it would be ****ed up if it were reciprocated). I think it's cute, like a kid having a crush on their baby sitter or something. :)

I don't think you can really pin a sexuality or gender onto it but 2003 Mikey doesn't care about gender roles which is refreshing. He doesn't mind dressing up in female clothing, in fact he appears to enjoy it. That alone isn't really enough to pin down a specific gender but he could be non-binary preferring he/him pronouns.

In the 2003 series Casey and Raph sometimes seem more like a couple than friends. There's this one episode where they're standing there and Casey's arm's draped casually over his shoulder like an old couple. It's really sweet. :)


No, that's not a "crush", Mikey views him as a "big brother" more than anything. Possibly also feels a sense of responsibility toward him since he felt guilty when LH ended up trapped in Dimension X, but it is clearly platonic. He's just very demonstrative with his affection, unlike his brothers- he's a hugger.

In all the eps where he has to "play dress-up". Mikey in 2k3 seems to be annoyed by the fact that HE always plays the "girl" part, which seems to indicate that he may feel it makes him appear gay. (Could be a cover-up, but in his case, I doubt it- he's too open with his thoughts and feelings most of the time for that to be a real possibility.) He also seems to like Sydney, once he realized she wasn't just "a monster". The fact that he never really gravitates toward anyone of either gender in 2k3 may have just been due to lack of options, though his apparent vanity (especially in FF season) and insistence that he's the "cute/good-looking" one makes me think he would be a total ladies' man if given half a chance....

Raph and Casey are an interesting study in machismo stereotypes. On the one hand, there COULD be something going on there that neither wants to admit to, but on the other, it generally looks like nothing more than a couple of guys showing their friendship in the only way acceptable to either.

[Andrew NDB]

Not touching this thread with a ten foot pole.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Uh, I think you just DID!! :trazz::tlol:

[PApagreg]

Not touching this thread with a ten foot pole.
I think commenting on it not only metaphorical counts as touching it but caressing it

As for 2k3 Don didn't he also have a crush on that alien chick or the mutant chick or am I remebering it wrong

As for Shini and Karai even in terms of girls being more affectionate towards another you gotta admit there is something between them

https://secure.static.tumblr.com/897506b3971b66f4a6d0e4db4b9c8832/gagnwst/vK5obzq59/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_1845nuijrttwo00k4g4oc8 ksc_640.gif

[ToTheNines]

I used to think IDW Mike and Woody could be gay, but that was back in like 2011/early 2012.



Mikey- Leatherhead and Bradford? SERIOUSLY??!! Bradford was just plain hero-worship, which is a whole different thin. And Leatherhead is clearly just a BFF situation- nothing more than a platonic "big brother" kind of thing. You've been on Deviant Art, haven't you?


Dude, he went so far as to spitefully unfriend him on Facebook after being wronged by him. That's love lol.

He totally wanted to peak under that hakama.


As for Shini and Karai even in terms of girls being more affectionate towards another you gotta admit there is something between them

https://secure.static.tumblr.com/897506b3971b66f4a6d0e4db4b9c8832/gagnwst/vK5obzq59/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_1845nuijrttwo00k4g4oc8 ksc_640.gif

Yeah, it dosen't even have to go as far as Nieli or Yeo, but either the animators or story board team thinks Shini loves Karai.

[Andrew NDB]

All right, I'll nudge it. Not up on all the different orientation terms, but for Mirage...

Leo, Mike, Don, and Raph are all straight. And yes, that means they might bone alien or mutated chicks. I'm pretty sure Laird or Eastman would say the Turtles wouldn't do human chicks, but then there's the Leonardo-Radical issue that squeaked by under Murphy's sole watch... so that happened and I'm grudgingly OK with it remaining.

There.

Louis Braunze seemed kind of... questionable, in Volume 2. And who knows what Rat King is.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, agree, typing out a reply counts as fondling the thread.

As for 2k3 Don didn't he also have a crush on that alien chick or the mutant chick or am I remebering it wrong
That blue(?) alien warrior, I think? Who fought the current ruler of her people to take over the position for the better.



but then there's the Leonardo-Radical issue that squeaked by under Murphy's sole watch...
Historically... definitely human fever in that one. lol Has he ever been into anyone who isn't human?

[Andrew NDB]

That blue(?) alien warrior, I think? Who fought the current ruler or her people to take over the position for the better.

Jhanna? She's in Mirage, too. Mike Dooney character. But not blue in that. And will have a big return in "Origin."

[ToTheNines]

There's also this scene:

7K7hL_p0kXQ


Historically... definitely human fever in that one. lol Has he ever been into anyone who isn't human?

In "Beyond the Known Universe", he flirts with that alien woman before getting chased off by her man.

He wanted to slay Venus pretty badly in TNM.

That's all I got.

[CyberCubed]

Come to think of it, a lot of the one-shot human characters in the original cartoon, especially the ones played by Cam Clarke or Rob Paulsen were probably gay.

Cam and Rob would always put on this flamboyant accent when playing one-episode human characters in the OT. The fat ship guy in "Funny, they shrunk Michaelangelo" comes to mind, as well as the guy who had wax paint model robots of a whole bunch of TMNT related characters.

[Prowler]

Isn't Cam Clarke gay, though? I dunno if Rob Paulsen is, however. never heard anything about him being gay or not. But Paulsen has a very suitable voice for cartoon characters.

[ToTheNines]

Clarke is, Paulsen is not.

But yes, cubed, Monroe Q. Flem was absolutely gay.

[ABrown]

Dr. Abigail Finn - http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Abigail_Finn

[snake]

Dr. Abigail Finn - http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Abigail_Finn

Oh yeah, totally. You just know.

[CyberCubed]

I remember when Fast Forward was originally airing people thought Serling was gay. I'm not sure its possible for there to be homosexual robots, but then again Futurama has those.

[ToTheNines]

And Star Wars.

[Utrommaniac]

I've realized both of those examples are gold-plated. Hmm.

[Andrew NDB]

Dr. Abigail Finn - http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Abigail_Finn

http://cdn.attackofthecute.com/December-12-2011-03-55-26-technohell1.jpeg

[MsMarvelDuckie]

OMG!! I forgot about Finn! Yeah SHE was for sure. And I had forgotten Don's fling with Jhanna too. Yeah he's straight in 2k3. Raph might be questionable though.

Mikey gay for Bradford?! Uh, no. Strictly hero-worship. Granted, that can often border on a "love obsession" of sorts, but it is more a case of wanting to be LIKE someone, or even to be in their presence a lot, not to be WITH them in that sense. There is a difference.

Hmm, I might say bi for Vernon, because if he wasn't walking both sides of the street I don't know who WAS! The pink shirt and purple suspenders and his preening like a peacock, and girly scream whenever exposed to actual danger gave him away. He certainly fawned over Burne enough....

[Andrew NDB]

Hmm, I might say bi for Vernon, because if he wasn't walking both sides of the street I don't know who WAS! The pink shirt and purple suspenders

Lots of dudes in business wear pink shirts that aren't raging homosexuals. It goes well with a gray suit.

[Powder]

I remember she tried to make the argument that Donatello was gay for wearing purple, now this. How ignorant.

These threads are never a good idea. This forum is incapable of merely stating the facts when asked about orientations in the the turtleverse. It immediately spirals into shipping, adult head-canon, stereotyping, etc.

[Prowler]

I remember she tried to make the argument that Donatello was gay for wearing purple, now this. How ignorant.

These threads are never a good idea. This forum is incapable of merely stating the facts when asked about orientations in the the turtleverse. It immediately spirals into shipping, adult head-canon, stereotyping, etc.
Yeah honestly Vernon doens't come across as gay to me just because he wears pink.

I wonder if people thought Bret Hart was gay back in the day...

[plastroncafe]

I agree, the stereotyping is a bit much.

What people wear doesn't easily illustrate their sexual preferences.
Well...lemme rephrase that, it doesn't usually.
There are certainly some very specific articles of clothing that go above and beyond making clear what trips a person's trigger, but most of the time average day-wear is not of that ilk.

Sure, these days pink is back to being a masculine color, but in the 1980s it wasn't. Kind of like how these days anyone can have ear piercings, but in the 80s, "Left was right, but right was wrong."

Vernon was the straight media's perception of an effeminate man, ie: a gay dude.

We can argue "Facts" about a character, but let's be honest...just because Leo crushed on Karai doesn't mean he's straight. It means he crushed on a female character.


I wonder if people thought Bret Hart was gay back in the day...

Because he wore pink?
No.
Because he greased himself up before rolling around on a mat with other muscle bound and equally greased men for money?
Maybe.

There are two places I can regularly see folks like that, wearing stuff like that:
Pride and the WWE.

[Andrew NDB]

Sure, these days pink is back to being a masculine color, but in the 1980s it wasn't.

https://whiteelephantintheroom.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/don-johnson-20080122-366588.jpg

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/c_limit,w_680/f_auto,fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/pzlldkknwugfxras8yjf.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/de/15/a7/de15a7742461f9b546d8ab0907e6ce01.jpg

[plastroncafe]

Wow, you found those fast, Andrew.
Personal collection?

I'd argue that all three are examples of hyper masculine straight dudes, and are exceptions that don't disprove the rule.

[Prowler]

I agree, the stereotyping is a bit much.

What people wear doesn't easily illustrate their sexual preferences.
Well...lemme rephrase that, it doesn't usually.
There are certainly some very specific articles of clothing that go above and beyond making clear what trips a person's trigger, but most of the time average day-wear is not of that ilk.

Sure, these days pink is back to being a masculine color, but in the 1980s it wasn't. Kind of like how these days anyone can have ear piercings, but in the 80s, "Left was right, but right was wrong."

Vernon was the straight media's perception of an effeminate man, ie: a gay dude.

We can argue "Facts" about a character, but let's be honest...just because Leo crushed on Karai doesn't mean he's straight. It means he crushed on a female character.



Because he wore pink?
No.
Because he greased himself up before rolling around on a mat with other muscle bound and equally greased men for money?
Maybe.

There are two places I can regularly see folks like that, wearing stuff like that:
Pride and the WWE.
Yeah wrestling and mma are considered gay by some. I guess they think it'd be a good idea for combat sports to be practised whilst wearing raincoats... sounds very practical.

As for pink makign a comeback as a masculine colour, in my country, wiggers wore pink for a while in the mid-late 90s. You'd see a big group of them all wearing pink. It was a hilarious sight. Gangsta urban youth wearing pink. What a visual.

[neatoman]

http://cdn.attackofthecute.com/December-12-2011-03-55-26-technohell1.jpeg

Didn't you already know about her?

[plastroncafe]

Yeah wrestling and mma are considered gay by some. I guess they think it'd be a good idea for combat sports to be practised whilst wearing raincoats... sounds very practical.


There's wearing a uniform for a sport, ie: a wrestling singlet.
And then there's being The Rock, and wearing bikini briefs.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about seeing the skin, I'm just saying...I've been to fetish clubs were people don't show as much of it.

[Prowler]

There's wearing a uniform for a sport, ie: a wrestling singlet.
And then there's being The Rock, and wearing bikini briefs.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about seeing the skin, I'm just saying...I've been to fetish clubs were people don't show as much of it.
The Rock must be a great cook for so many chicks to want to smell it.

[ssjup81]

Wow, you found those fast, Andrew.
Personal collection?

I'd argue that all three are examples of hyper masculine straight dudes, and are exceptions that don't disprove the rule.It was the 80s, guys wearing pink shirts or pastels in general seemed common back then.

That aside, not counting the first season, Vernon just came across as wimpy and weak to me as a contrast to April and Irma, whom were way braver than him despite being women. I figured that was the point. Vernon did seem to have a thing for April some eps.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, no matter his orientation, I mostly always took Vernon to just be a wuss who might have had an overly pampered childhood that left him childish and wimpy as an adult. He kind of reeks of someone who was influenced by snobby parents.

[Princess Anri]

You want a fist in the mouth?

I've never even looked at another guy before.

[CyberCubed]

There are a lot of offensive gay jokes in 80's and 90's movies in general. For some reason you could make fun of gays back then and it was considered acceptable.

Anyone remember in Adventures in Baby-Sitting, the "Thor is gay" line? And then the kid almost got beat up?

[IndigoErth]

Unfortunately the growing up of society is a slow process.

(Though we seem to have started going in reverse now that offending and humiliating people then labeling them as "too sensitive" for reacting is 'in'.)

[Andrew NDB]

There are a lot of offensive gay jokes in 80's and 90's movies in general. For some reason you could make fun of gays back then and it was considered acceptable.

More recently than that. I seem to recall even in The Fast & The Furious, Vince tells Brian: "Why don't you try Fat Burger from now on? You can get yourself a cheese and fries for 2.95, f****t!"

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I remember she tried to make the argument that Donatello was gay for wearing purple, now this. How ignorant.

These threads are never a good idea. This forum is incapable of merely stating the facts when asked about orientations in the the turtleverse. It immediately spirals into shipping, adult head-canon, stereotyping, etc.


No I never said Donatello was gay for wearing purple- pay attention next time. I made the observation that some fans have pegged him as such because of it and some of his personality traits. It's all over Deviant Art and Inkbunny. Apparently Donnie is the least masculine one, according to them, and some associate the purple with that. (Then there's the purple Teletubbie, who actually IS. Might have something to do with that conception.)



Yeah honestly Vernon doens't come across as gay to me just because he wears pink.

I wonder if people thought Bret Hart was gay back in the day...

Vernon wasn't just the pink shirt though. It was the overstyled hair, the constant concern for ruining his "good looks" and his squeamishness and lack of masculinity. It's true he tried to get April to kiss him once or twice, but he had no interest in any other women- not even Burne's girlfriend whom he simply ignored. I suppose these days he might be considered a metrosexual but in the 80's?! Yeah he was pretty ambiguous at best. Never saw him as fully straight even as a kid. Too many "unmanly" traits in how he acted and talked. (In particular his aversion to doing anything that might get him hurt or dirty. Or maybe he was just a germophobe a la Monk. I dunno he just seemed really effeminite.)

[Prowler]

I don't understand why several people consider Donatello "the least masculine Turtle". I mean why? So because he's tech savy that means he's not as good of a fighter? In the FW series he surely didn't seem to have issues with fighting. In fact, Raphael was the one less eager to fight of all of them "Do we really have to?". In 2k3, Donatello might not be so outspoken but that doesn't make a man gay. He doesn't come across as unmanly in the TMNT movies and the Mirage comics I've seen/read.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Probably has more to do with general nerdiness than anything. Or his pacifistic tendancies. And maybe his lack of interest in dating/girls up until Nick? I think some fans just consider him the "safe" one, ie he is less likely to go gaga over a female (Nick notwithstanding) and to be the one you could just hang with as a male friend.

At any rate he's definitely the one least hyper-masculine unlike Raph.

[plastroncafe]

Cultural mileage may vary, but here in the States...yeah, Donnie doesn't rank very highly against the yardstick that is the American Concept of Masculinity.

Compare what you would consider his strongest traits against the criteria for "Manliest Movies" and you're not going to see a whole lot of overlap.

And particularly in the 80s, anyone who didn't measure up was either a "girl" or a "f@g."

Both of which are equally as loathsome.

[Prowler]

Cultural mileage may vary, but here in the States...yeah, Donnie doesn't rank very highly against the yardstick that is the American Concept of Masculinity.

Compare what you would consider his strongest traits against the criteria for "Manliest Movies" and you're not going to see a whole lot of overlap.

And particularly in the 80s, anyone who didn't measure up was either a "girl" or a "f@g."

Both of which are equally as loathsome.
But movies like Predator and men like Schwarzenegger aren't really what your typical male is. I've never taken part in a guerrilla war nor do am I roided freak bodybuilder. Am I unmanly and gay? :lol:

Just because Donatello wouldn't play the main role in Predator doesn't mean he's unmanly. I could see the Mirage Turtles in Fight Club or in a movie like Das Boot, though.

[plastroncafe]

But movies like Predator and men like Schwarzenegger aren't really what your typical male is. I've never taken part in a guerrilla war nor do am I roided freak bodybuilder. Am I unmanly and gay? :lol:

Very few men are like that, and yet movies of their ilk do very well. So well that they're considered by many, again I refer you to the thread, as the pinnacle of masculine behavior.

It's kind of why they're referred to as Male Power Fantasy.

Look at the PD Turtle movies...even there Donnie is a 'roided out freak of a body builder.

Just because Donatello wouldn't play the main role in Predator doesn't mean he's unmanly. I could see the Mirage Turtles in Fight Club or in a movie like Das Boot, though.

Fight Club is all about the deconstruction of the Male Power Fantasy.
In that movie? Donnie would be "Jack" and Raph would be Tyler Durden.
Actually...maybe that'd be Mike. He's way more charismatic.

And to be honest, I think more media should focus on Mike and Don.

[Prowler]

Very few men are like that, and yet movies of their ilk do very well. So well that they're considered by many, again I refer you to the thread, as the pinnacle of masculine behavior.

It's kind of why they're referred to as Male Power Fantasy.

Look at the PD Turtle movies...even there Donnie is a 'roided out freak of a body builder.



Fight Club is all about the deconstruction of the Male Power Fantasy.
In that movie? Donnie would be "Jack" and Raph would be Tyler Durden.
Actually...maybe that'd be Mike. He's way more charismatic.

And to be honest, I think more media should focus on Mike and Don.
Well it depends on the individual. I personally wouldn't want to look like Schwarzeneger but I like reading and watching stuff about war and sports.

I wish I could invent just about anything like Donatello. Plus, it's not like eh sits back and never fights. He definitely is courageous... unlike 2k3 Mike at times who can be quite a chicken.

God don't mention PD Turtles. That s*it is an abomination.

[IndigoErth]

Or his pacifistic tendancies.
That's mainly the part that I've assumed it to be. The least aggressive of the bunch and the least 'in your face' type, not fitting society's very limited idea/ideal of masculinity. And doesn't help that his demeanor exists alongside the clear contrast of Raph having more than his share of raw aggression - who, what, many might think he'd be leader if he wasn't so unhinged, but why... because aggression?


Side note - with regard to aggressiveness and masculinity in alpha/leadership, Reader's Digest has a nice article: Think You Know What “Alpha Male” Means? These Wolves Will Prove You Wrong (http://www.rd.com/advice/relationships/alpha-male-wolves/)


Donnie is the main grease monkey of the family though, what with the making of all those vehicles and whatnot; he's got his approved stereotyped 'manly traits' about him, while the others on the reverse have their "weak" points as well.

edit: Heck... get all four of them grimy like that and I doubt Raph will care much more than Donnie would. But in this case it's prob Leo and Mikey's turn to be stereotyped "less manly" as I could see both of them not wanting to be that filthy for no longer than they have to be. lol They've all got their stuff.

[Prowler]

That's mainly the part that I've assumed it to be. The least aggressive of the bunch and the least 'in your face' type, not fitting society's very limited idea/ideal of masculinity. And doesn't help that his demeanor exists alongside the clear contrast of Raph having more than his share of raw aggression - who, what, many might think he'd be leader if he wasn't so unhinged, but why... because aggression?


Side note - with regard to aggressiveness and masculinity in alpha/leadership, Reader's Digest has a nice article: Think You Know What “Alpha Male” Means? These Wolves Will Prove You Wrong (http://www.rd.com/advice/relationships/alpha-male-wolves/)


Donnie is the main grease monkey of the family though, what with the making of all those vehicles and whatnot; he's got his approved stereotyped 'manly traits' about him, while the others on the reverse have their "weak" points as well.
Exactly.

Being overtly aggressive isn't a good sign. Raphael in many of his incarnations is way too impulsive. That's not being "manly". When i was a teenager I was also more impulsive and aggressive than I am today, but was way manlier when i was 14? Hell no.

Donatello is usually more calm and collected, like Leonardo is. Having a good control of your emotions and being rational is also considered "manly" am I right?

[IndigoErth]

Donatello is usually more calm and collected, like Leonardo is. Having a good control of your emotions and being rational is also considered "manly" am I right?
Definitely.

Funny thing is, in that article I linked, the "alpha wolves" they studied, don't sound like Raph personalities...they sound a lot like Leo and Donnie types. :tcool:

The term alpha male connotes a man who at every moment demonstrates that he’s in control in the home and who away from home can become snarling and aggressive.

This alpha male stereotype comes from a misunderstanding of the real thing.

By observing wolves in free-living packs in Yellowstone National Park, I’ve seen that the leadership of the ranking male is not forced, not domineering, and not aggressive to those on his team.

“The main characteristic of an alpha male wolf,” the veteran wolf researcher Rick McIntyre told me as we were watching gray wolves, “is a quiet confidence, quiet self-assurance. You know what you need to do; you know what’s best for your pack. You lead by example. You’re very comfortable with that. You have a calming effect.”

The point is, alpha males are not aggressive. They don’t need to be. “Think of an emotionally secure man or a great champion. Whatever he needed to prove is already proven,” he said.

So all those guys out there trying hard to be hyper masculine and/or hyper aggressive and buying into that "alpha" thing... I guess they still have much to prove. Types like Donnie don't need to.

[CyberCubed]

In the IDW comics we might have an official LGBT pairing:

Jennika (now a mutant turtle), and Sheena, a female pig mutant rocker.

[Leo656]

I bet the person who came up with the Sheena character is still snickering over how clever they are.

"Snerk... get it? Her name is Sheena... and she's a punk rocker!" :roll:

Might as well have a walrus named Paul just to really make sure nobody missed the masterful subtlety of the "joke".

Seriously, these people are so "on the nose" with their stuff that they drive your sinus cavity out the back of your head.

....If there actually is a walrus named Paul in this book, please do not tell me. I am entirely out of room in my crawlspace and I promised the nice people I'd stop doing bad things. Thanks.

[CyberCubed]

This is what she looks like for those not following the comic:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sheena

[Leo656]

Although the Ramones had a 1977 song titled Sheena Is a Punk Rocker, creator Sophie Campbell has stated that she had never heard of the song prior to the character's creation.

https://refuge.nolayingup.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/d/0d1ffc75944a2cf9b0cb8cba86eebbb8e550ff88.gif

[Jester]

I bet the person who came up with the Sheena character is still snickering over how clever they are.

"Snerk... get it? Her name is Sheena... and she's a punk rocker!" :roll:

Might as well have a walrus named Paul just to really make sure nobody missed the masterful subtlety of the "joke".

Seriously, these people are so "on the nose" with their stuff that they drive your sinus cavity out the back of your head.

....If there actually is a walrus named Paul in this book, please do not tell me. I am entirely out of room in my crawlspace and I promised the nice people I'd stop doing bad things. Thanks.
Although the Ramones had a 1977 song titled Sheena Is a Punk Rocker, creator Sophie Campbell has stated that she had never heard of the song prior to the character's creation
Also didn't George write I am the Walrus? To the wikipedias!
Lennon, it was John Lennon.

[Leo656]

They can insist that they've never, ever in their life heard a song that was arguably The Ramones' biggest and most-recognized hit and is thus played on the radio literally every single day somewhere in the world and was even featured prominently in the original "Pet Sematary" and other films and TV shows. They can insist that all day, all night and all year to cover up for the fact that such an obvious joke isn't very clever or funny and that even an 8th grade writing teacher would call it out and be like, "C'mon, really? Try a little harder."

They can say it all they want, but it's simply not true, is all.

That would be like me swearing up and down that I've never masturbated to Madonna's "Cherish" video. I can swear to it on a stack of Bibles but everybody's still gonna know I'm lying because of course I would be.

[Allsparrow]

There are more creatives than just Sophie working at IDW. Kevin or Tom could have made the suggestion, and Sophie can still claim to be in the dark. If you ask me, the pink haired pig Is an avatar for her, but corny naming is very “Kevin”.

[King Kahn]

They can insist that they've never, ever in their life heard a song that was arguably The Ramones' biggest and most-recognized hit and is thus played on the radio literally every single day somewhere in the world and was even featured prominently in the original "Pet Sematary" and other films and TV shows. They can insist that all day, all night and all year to cover up for the fact that such an obvious joke isn't very clever or funny and that even an 8th grade writing teacher would call it out and be like, "C'mon, really? Try a little harder."

They can say it all they want, but it's simply not true, is all.

That would be like me swearing up and down that I've never masturbated to Madonna's "Cherish" video. I can swear to it on a stack of Bibles but everybody's still gonna know I'm lying because of course I would be.
Eh. Some people don’t hear everything. I just listened to the song and honestly I don’t think I had heard it before now and I’m 40.

[Leo656]

When people tell me they've never listened to or heard The Ramones I have no choice at all but to assume their entire lives are empty and meaningless.

Not that they're the greatest band in the world or anything, because they're not; they're just, like, ubiquitous. Their songs get played, like, ALL the time everywhere and that was their second-biggest hit. Perhaps you and they never sat down and listened to it before on purpose, but I promise that you've been exposed to it many times even if you didn't realize it. You watched a movie like Pet Sematary that used it prominently, or it was playing at a bar or restaurant you were in. Right now, I promise that somebody's playing it somewhere on some station or at some party or SOMEthing.

It leads me to ask what else these people haven't experienced. Table salt? Fabric softener? What other elements of Regular Daily Life are these people missing out on? It boggles the mind when people tell me they're unaware of The Ramones. It's like, I don't LISTEN to Pink Floyd, but Lord knows that I've listened to a ton of them just through cultural osmosis. I'd have to never leave the house or turn on the radio in order to avoid them.

Someone saying "I've never heard 'Sheena Is A Punk Rocker' before" is like saying "I have no idea who Batman is." I simultaneously don't believe them and also hope for their sake it's not true. People shouldn't be THAT sheltered, it simply isn't right.

But no, I don't believe the official story. The gag name is way too much of the exact kinda humor they go for, for it to be a happy accident or coincidence. Someone who purposely named a character after Lita Ford absolutely knows who The Ramones are and absolutely knows their second-biggest hit. I am nowhere near that gullible, they're just playing some hipster nonsense.

It's like Grant Morrison insisting he doesn't rip off Alan Moore when that's about 90% of his function and people constantly point it out and call him on it. :lol: C'mon, just be honest, people respect you more that way.

[garsh]

I'm also one of those people basically oblivious to The Ramones. The name is familiar for sure, but before reading about all this I never could have named or recognized anything they've done. I'm pretty sure I did watch Pet Sematary to completion at least once, but hearing the song by itself doesn't ring a bell at all. Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever used fabric softener either.

[lonewarrior20]

I've only seen the Ramones in their cameo on the early simpsons and didn't know the song either. It's like asking a country western fan what they know about jazz.

[Leo656]

People are trying to explain how these things can conceivably happen, but all I see are philistines bragging about leading very cloistered lives and having questionable-to-nonexistent taste in things. :lol: :trazz:

Of course... it IS a TMNT forum... bad taste and limited life experience is kind of a prerequisite or they take away your Fan Club card. :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

So maybe I can believe you, but trust me, that's not a GOOD thing. :trazz:

I'm gonna leave it semi-ambiguous as to how much of this post is me merely razzing folks and how much is me being dead serious, because it's more fun that way. I'll just say... it's about 70 of One, 30 of The Other, and let you all decide which is which. :tgrin: Some of you who've been around a while can guess, though, I'm sure. :trazz:

[wyze2099]

There are a tiny handful of LGBT characters throughout the TMNT multiverse -- or at least characters we have some kind of confirmation of, rather than fan theory:


E'ro'chk from TMNT Vol. 4 has some wives, plural.
Lindsey Baker from IDW has a confirmed ex-girlfriend, a scientist named Jillian Amante.
Warren Stone and Hypno-Potamus are live-in boyfriends, so the point there's actually an episode titled, "Warren & Hypno, Sitting In a Tree".
Sally Pride from IDW. Said by her creator to be LGBT, and heck, and her own name is a partial reference to it.
Puggle and Bandit, two apparently male Mutanimals from IDW, are boyfriends.
And Jennika and Sheena, also from IDW, definitely seem like a couple as of the most recent issue when they're hanging out by the Kennel Club, arm-in-arm. This would mean Jennika is bi or pan, since she's dated guys before.


Hopefully there will be more than that as time goes on.

[TigerClaw]

There are a tiny handful of LGBT characters throughout the TMNT multiverse -- or at least characters we have some kind of confirmation of, rather than fan theory:


E'ro'chk from TMNT Vol. 4 has some wives, plural.
Lindsey Baker from IDW has a confirmed ex-girlfriend, a scientist named Jillian Amante.
Warren Stone and Hypno-Potamus are live-in boyfriends, so the point there's actually an episode titled, "Warren & Hypno, Sitting In a Tree".
Puggle and Bandit, two apparently male Mutanimals from IDW, are boyfriends.
And Jennika and Sheena, also from IDW, definitely seem like a couple as of the most recent issue when they're hanging out by the Kennel Club, arm-in-arm. This would mean Jennika is bi or pan, since she's dated guys before.


Hopefully there will be more than that as time goes on.
What about Sally Pride? We never seen her with anyone.

[Coola Yagami]

What about Sally Pride? We never seen her with anyone.

Why would that mean she's gay though?

[TigerClaw]

Why would that mean she's gay though?
Well it seems some of her fans. particularly in DeviantArt seems to depict her as being lesbian sometimes.

[Leo656]

According to DeviantArt, absolutely everyone is homosexual/bisexual. :lol:

I mean, in the case of women that just happens to be true... but still! You can't just go by what DeviantArt says. :trazz:

[Coola Yagami]

I guess it's the stereotype where if a woman isn't in a relationship or actively seeking one or actively pining over someone (even if it's someone they'll never have), then they must be gay.

Like sometimes guys get this tacked on to them, but most of the time they get a pass like, it's assumed they're straight but they're too busy being bad-asses to think about women, or they only live for adventure, or to perfect their martial art, or whatever, but when women are too busy kicking ass to think about men.... again, it's assumed they're gay.

I guess in certain way April escapes this. She is too married to her career to think about men and most people (obviously not the fanart shipping crew, the um... less pervy people) see this as meaning she's gay.

[Leo656]

Well, April would be drowning in bones if she weren't so busy. FW April, at least. I guess she could secretly be a "lipstick lesbian", especially with that haircut, but nah. She likes dudes, she's just busy.

I could totally see her and Irma getting drunk on Tequila and hooking up, though. That'd be awesome.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, April would be drowning in bones if she weren't so busy. FW April, at least. I guess she could secretly be a "lipstick lesbian", especially with that haircut, but nah. She likes dudes, she's just busy.

I could totally see her and Irma getting drunk on Tequila and hooking up, though. That'd be awesome.

Yeah, April likes dudes but is just too busy to care. Honestly in the more wholesome 80's, it kinda speaks volumes that April is such a dedicated career woman that didn't sleep her way to the top but isn't all about the 'girl power' and such nonsense.

Irma was hurting for some dick though. As a kid I was most likely like 'ew gross' but nowadays I'd take her up on that offer. I just feel she would have been annoying and way too clingy. I mean there were episodes where she just met the guy and was already discussing marriage.

Like the one with the Turtles sending her gifts. All she knew was 3 random sailor dudes were sending her gifts and love letters and whatnot. She was legit ready to marry whichever of the 3 sailors showed up first.

Then there was the episode where she was ready to jump Splinter's bones based on his name alone, before she found out he was mutant rat.

Damn, if there was ever a time to have one of those magical theater tickets from Last Action Hero, lmao. All I'd literally would have to do is call Irma beautiful and it woulda been a sure thing. We would just have the exit the episode as quickly as possible before we would get tangled up in whatever crazy plan Shredder had planned that week.

[wyze2099]

What about Sally Pride? We never seen her with anyone.

Good catch. I added her.

[Leo656]

Ah, Irma would totally get it. I've banged a couple "Irmas". They got some serious sh*t pent up that they need some help in dealing with, and sometimes you go home with scratches on your back.

I always got a strong feeling that she'd be DTF with the Turtles it's just that none of them ever took her up on it. April, I think, could possibly be persuaded to but it maybe wasn't at the front of her mind on the regular.

But I do think a drunken game of Truth Or Dare with April, Irma, and the Turtles would be rather "interesting". And that none of them would be able to look the others in the eye for quite a while afterwards. :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

I've brought this up before, but I totally headcanon Donny sent her the puppy in "Green With Jealousy", considering the letter says "my feelings for you are more than puppy love", which arguably the behaviour of the other three were and then some.

[Coola Yagami]

I have to admit, it was a devilishly clever plan. Have the turtles fall in love with the same person and be too busy fighting each other (and potentially take each other out) to stop whatever Shredder is up to. Had Donnie had some, they'd all be doomed.

[Hamato Yoshi]

I could imagine Leo as gay , he seems more sensitive thanthe other turtles

[Andrew NDB]

I could imagine Leo as gay , he seems more sensitive thanthe other turtles

What? He's like the least sensitive of all of them, 2nd only maybe Raph.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Well to me , movie Leo i could imagine being gay or cross dresser ;)

Hugo Drax in 007 i think was gay thus his rage to kill those that didnt live up to his image , maybe he felt guilt for being gay

[frank_one]

So, if a man is sensitive he could be gay now. Because a gay can't be insensitive, right? It's good to learn new things everyday.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Its like Hogan vs Bruce Lee , unless they fought wed never know whod win , but people can still speculate

None of the turtles are gay but if -IF- a turtle was gay then my guess would be Leo

[Leo656]

Hogan ain't doin' the J-O-B to no Kung-Fu Charlie, brother! :tgrin:

I mean, let's look at the logic and facts: Taking finishers only makes him stronger. Every Bruce Lee maneuver would spell death for any normal person, thereby making everything he does a "finisher". Which given the fact that Hogan reacts to Finishers like Popeye reacts to spinach would spell quite a bit of trouble, indeed. You could hit him with a cannonball and he'd just shrug it off with "Doesn't work for me, Brother... and also, I'm gonna need the next four months off since I used up all my dates, jack."

Seriously, he's bulletproof. HOW bulletproof? Observe:

https://static3.thesportsterimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Hulk-Hogan-1-1.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=740

Now, Bruce Lee vs. Terry Bollea might go quite a bit differently. :lol: But court documents verify that "Hulk Hogan" is a separate entity than Terry Bollea, as odd as that may seem to the layman. :trazz: And "Hogan Doesn't Job, Brother!"

[Turnstone]

Haven’t read this thread through but would rather read the comics without politics and forced gender topics. Oh, and without SJW nonsense like Jennika.

[wyze2099]

I have to ask: why is it suddenly "politics" and "forced" when LGBT characters are in stories? I've never understood that logic. LGBT people exist in real life as well as in stories. Likewise, I've seen plenty of "straight" relationships in media that seem a lot more forced than someone who happens to be gay or bi. That's an aspect of a character, but by no means a defining characteristic.

As examples from IDW: Lindsey Baker's a lesbian. That's an aspect of her character, but it didn't come up until her ex, a fellow scientist, re-entered the picture. There's more going on with the character than just that, such as her relationships with the Mutanimals, and the scientific breakthroughs she's made with mutagen that has resulted in the creation of most of the mutants seen in the series.

Jennika is bi, if her interactions with Sheena are any indication. That's an aspect of the character that's being played as low-key, and nowhere near the only aspect of her character. Her worth as a character is in her growth as a character, and in the dichotomy between being a fighter/killer and being a person with connections. She left behind a tough upbringing and a youth as a juvenile delinquent in favor of joining the Foot, and in the process she remade herself as a weapon. She's first seen trying to assassinate Splinter, and when he shows her compassion, that sets into motion a long character arc in which she has to find her place in the Foot, and figure out what to do with herself. She comes to see Master Splinter as a father figure (perhaps the first positive one she's had), and she begins letting people see her vulnerable, which is difficult for her. She's a conflicted character who's gone through a number of reinventions (some of them her choice, some not). I find that conflict interesting, as well as her attempts to assert agency over her own reinventions. It wasn't her choice to be mutated into a turtle, but this means she can try to form a sisterly bond with the Turtles and see how that works out. The Mutant Town situation definitely wasn't her choice, but she's making the most of it by exploring her interest in music and entering into a new relationship (and closing the door on some past relationships). The fact that this new relationship is with a woman isn't forced; it's part of the ongoing story of this conflicted character who's grown over time.

And those are just two examples. So yeah, the "forced" argument never made any sense to me. They're aspects of a character that happened because the writer(s) made choices. Just like any other part of a character.

[Coola Yagami]

I think it's considered political when it's done wrong, when a gay character is shoved in there, just because, and when gay is their entire personality. At least with Lindsey and Jennika got a lot more stuff going on character wise and personality wise.

Then there's what some people call the 'gay agenda' where some old fashioned folks think more and more gays are being crammed into media to 'normalize' it, which IMO it already kinda is in society. But on the other hand we got nonsense like the Oscars announcing whatever movie they nominate from now on MUST have a gay person in it (as well as other diversity checkpoints), and people always virtue signalling that 'OMG our movie is like, so progressive cause it got gays in it!'

Personally I don't care unless it's painfully obviously token character is shoe-horned in cause gay.

I guess it's called political cause one side pushes for gays more than the other.

[TigerClaw]

I think it's considered political when it's done wrong, when a gay character is shoved in there, just because, and when gay is their entire personality. At least with Lindsey and Jennika got a lot more stuff going on character wise and personality wise.

Then there's what some people call the 'gay agenda' where some old fashioned folks think more and more gays are being crammed into media to 'normalize' it, which IMO it already kinda is in society. But on the other hand we got nonsense like the Oscars announcing whatever movie they nominate from now on MUST have a gay person in it (as well as other diversity checkpoints), and people always virtue signalling that 'OMG our movie is like, so progressive cause it got gays in it!'

Personally I don't care unless it's painfully obviously token character is shoe-horned in cause gay.

I guess it's called political cause one side pushes for gays more than the other.
What about when you have a character who's sexuality is ambiguous and then they suddenly decide to make the character gay.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What about when you have a character who's sexuality is ambiguous and then they suddenly decide to make the character gay.

That's called coming out of the closet.

[TigerClaw]

That's called coming out of the closet.
Nope not at all. Some of these characters dont even show a hint of there sexuality. Its just the people decided to make that person gay because they can.

One of the biggest example of IceMan from the X-Men.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Nope not at all.

Dude, what do you have against gay people? Don't deny their lifestyle.

[TigerClaw]

Dude, what do you have against gay people? Don't deny their lifestyle.
Nothing at all. Its just sometimes there are characters whose sexuality is ambiguous on purpose. But then a writer or so decides to change that and make them either straight or gay. You barely see characters out there who are asexual.

[Coola Yagami]

Nope not at all. Some of these characters dont even show a hint of there sexuality. Its just the people decided to make that person gay because they can.

One of the biggest example of IceMan from the X-Men.

Except IceMan was not ambiguous at all, he's had girlfriends off and on over the years.

Ambiguous would be more like he never showed interest in sex at all.

[Sumac]

I have to ask: why is it suddenly "politics" and "forced" when LGBT characters are in stories?
It is forced, when creators turn previously established character Gay all of a sudden.
It is forced when previously Het character ends up being Gay.
It is forced when character being Gay is all their personality.
It is forced when creators pat themselves on the back for a character being Gay.
It is forced when the story which doesn't confront sexuality of characters makes a special point about Gay character.

Dude, what do you have against gay people? Don't deny their lifestyle.
This is where some people might call you homophobic for calling sexuality a "lifestyle".

[wyze2099]

Personally I don't care unless it's painfully obviously token character is shoe-horned in cause gay.

There was a time in the eighties and before when just about the only time gay characters were seen in media was when they existed to be ridiculed. It was rare to see a positive portrayal of a gay person. That's what I think of when I think of a gay character being shoe-horned in 'cause gay. One example that springs to mind is one of the henchmen in the Bruce Lee movie Way of the Dragon; he was a slimy sort of character in a way that seemed completely tied in with his effeminate gay demeanor.

Heck, another Bruce Lee role in the '69 movie Marlowe had him play a triad enforcer who was so enraged by the title character suggesting he was gay that he was baited into taking a flying-kick leap off a tall building.

Even the first two Bill & Ted movies each had the two title characters shout "F*G" at each other in a way that seemed completely at odds with their overall personality. They didn't strike me as the type of people who'd have any problem hugging each other, let alone shout a slur even in jest. That kind of homophobia seemed just as shoe-horned in as people accuse gay characters of being.

The late eighties and nineties began to see a show shift toward having gay characters who were portrayed as people in ways that other

I guess it's called political cause one side pushes for gays more than the other.

Doesn't really seem like a ringing endorsement for the latter party, I gotta be honest.

It is forced, when creators turn previously established character Gay all of a sudden.
It is forced when previously Het character ends up being Gay.
It is forced when character being Gay is all their personality.
It is forced when creators pat themselves on the back for a character being Gay.
It is forced when the story which doesn't confront sexuality of characters makes a special point about Gay character.

So are you saying that 'forced' is the problem or 'Gay' is the problem? Because if the thing that's being forced in fiction is something as mundane as 'person is Gay', then my reaction is gonna be, "...so?"

And there are more possibilities than just homosexuality. Some people are bi. Some people realize they're some degree of LGBT later in life. It happens to some people. Heck, I'm 41; I was in my thirties before I accepted that I'm bi. I'm friends with a number of trans people. By the logic of the above list, that must mean we're forced or something. That's an amusing thought.

As for back-patting: some creators do that, but that's not always the motive for having LGBT characters in a story. Sometimes it's just a desire to have a fictional world that's varied in ways that real life is varied. In my creative writing, for instance, there are some LGBT+ characters alongside straight folks, and I'm not looking for a pat on the back for that. I just write people, warts and all.

Bringing it back to the Turtles: In a setting like TMNT in which all kinds of bizarre things can and will happen to people, whether it's a Triceraton invasion, the detonation of a mutagen bomb, or getting caught up in a war between various factions. And straight folks aren't the only people the weird things are happening to. Once in a while the fact they're LGBT might come up in the story, but usually it doesn't.

Like Bandit and Puggle, who Mutanimals from the recent comics. The fact they're boyfriends didn't even come up for a number of issues, and when it did it was in context of the two of them trying to start a fight with Jennika to settle a score. And then Leo used it as a tipping point to diffuse the situation before a fight could break out: basically, "we could go outside and fight, or we could just relax and enjoy each other's company, which is the reason we're even at this club, right?" It came up when it was useful to the plot. If Bandit or Puggle had been female, and it had been a straight relationship, the result would have been the same. I don't see a problem with any of that.

[Zulithe]

It is forced, when creators turn previously established character Gay all of a sudden.
Happens in real life all the time. People who you thought were straight or felt they had to feign straightness for any number of reasons come out as gay. Not forced.
It is forced when previously Het character ends up being Gay.The world is complicated and people who are attracted to the same sex don't always feel free to practice their attraction, but after time and experience, eventually find the opportunity. Same goes for coming out as trans, etc. Not forced.
It is forced when character being Gay is all their personality.In Scott Pilgrim vs The World, the entire story is about a straight dude winning the heart of a girl, that's literally all it's about. Was it forced? Or maybe you just didn't notice because it's so normalized. Gay characters are entitled to the same freedom. Aside from that, if a character does have to point out they are gay all the time when it doesn't make sense, this can also be bad writing. And a lot of times these bad scenarios are created by straight writers who are fetishizing gay characters.
It is forced when creators pat themselves on the back for a character being Gay.Tokenism, fetishization, and virtue signaling is a problem in and of itself, not of LGBT characters. They exist in the real world and so they also exist in fictional environments. I also think there is nothing wrong with creators pointing out inclusion when inclusion did not exist previously.
It is forced when the story which doesn't confront sexuality of characters makes a special point about Gay character.Since we are speaking about TMNT here, yes, sexuality of characters does come up. There are lots of straight relationships, so other types of relationships should be allowed to exist when it makes sense. LGBT people aren't asking for the world here... we know we all together make up maybe 1 out of every 10 people... so by that logic, roughly 1 out of every 10 relationships portrayed in any form of media would realistically be some form of LGBT relationship, roughly speaking. When it falls below that ratio, it's perfectly fine; i personally don't see it as a hard quota or anything. But when it's consistently zero, the motivations for it are up for question. And no, I don't think "random third rate background character might have been gay" counts.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean Scott Pilgrim was awkward, geeky, a gamer and a big fan of references and also a bit of an asshole in his own right. He wasn't just 'straight' and that's it. In fact unless you count dudebro background characters, most straights in media are fully fleshed out characters that aren't just all about their desire for a woman.

Most people don't know how to write gay characters beyond 'omg you guys, look how gay I am, I'm on grinder all day, like I am soooooo gay, btw did you know I'm gay?'. Like that was literally IceMan in the comic when he got his own series, grinder app and all. It's almost as if he forgot he's one if the xmen and should have more stuff going on besides trying to get boned.

[Sumac]

Doesn't really seem like a ringing endorsement for the latter party, I gotta be honest.
It wasn't until party pushing for gays turned into party of raving lunatics demanding to insert LGBs everywhere and when its done they are still complaining that it "wrong" and characters are "too gay" or not "gay enough", which firmly puts them into homophobic territory by their own logic.

So are you saying that 'forced' is the problem or 'Gay' is the problem? Because if the thing that's being forced in fiction is something as mundane as 'person is Gay', then my reaction is gonna be, "...so?"
The problem is not that its being "forced", but how its being forced, by raging lunatics screaming that creators MUST include gay characters in their works, whether it fits creative intent or not. The same goes for any other categories, to be precise.

I should not change my intent or how I think characters should be, just because someone feels underrepresented. Those people can create something of their own, but I am no-one's servant to oblige to their whims and whining. Unless my work insulting for some people, they don't have right to stomp their feet and scream that I MUST follow their rules.

And there are more possibilities than just homosexuality. Some people are bi. Some people realize they're some degree of LGBT later in life. It happens to some people. Heck, I'm 41; I was in my thirties before I accepted that I'm bi. I'm friends with a number of trans people. By the logic of the above list, that must mean we're forced or something. That's an amusing thought.
There is a difference between character being straight for 40 years and then turned gay, because it is trendy now and a person's life.
How about making a new character, which could be Gay from the begining?

As for back-patting: some creators do that, but that's not always the motive for having LGBT characters in a story. Sometimes it's just a desire to have a fictional world that's varied in ways that real life is varied. In my creative writing, for instance, there are some LGBT+ characters alongside straight folks, and I'm not looking for a pat on the back for that. I just write people, warts and all.
In mainstream stuff, more often than not it comes exactly like virtue signaling. Especially, when creators announce on Twitter "Look: this character is GAY!! Aren't we great?"

Create any character you want, but don't make a show out of it. It looks pathetic. Let the work and characters speak for you. It is much more effective and people will appreciate it much more than being told (dictated) by creators what to think of their work.

Bringing it back to the Turtles: In a setting like TMNT in which all kinds of bizarre things can and will happen to people, whether it's a Triceraton invasion, the detonation of a mutagen bomb, or getting caught up in a war between various factions. And straight folks aren't the only people the weird things are happening to. Once in a while the fact they're LGBT might come up in the story, but usually it doesn't.

Like Bandit and Puggle, who Mutanimals from the recent comics. The fact they're boyfriends didn't even come up for a number of issues, and when it did it was in context of the two of them trying to start a fight with Jennika to settle a score. And then Leo used it as a tipping point to diffuse the situation before a fight could break out: basically, "we could go outside and fight, or we could just relax and enjoy each other's company, which is the reason we're even at this club, right?" It came up when it was useful to the plot. If Bandit or Puggle had been female, and it had been a straight relationship, the result would have been the same. I don't see a problem with any of that.
I wasn't talking specifically about TMNT, but as I said, more often than not creators behind modern movies, comic books and games are trying to include Gay characters solely to get head pats.

Happens in real life all the time. People who you thought were straight or felt they had to feign straightness for any number of reasons come out as gay. Not forced.

The world is complicated and people who are attracted to the same sex don't always feel free to practice their attraction, but after time and experience, eventually find the opportunity. Same goes for coming out as trans, etc. Not forced.
Forced, when it comes to the character who was never hinted as anything but straight.

In Scott Pilgrim vs The World, the entire story is about a straight dude winning the heart of a girl, that's literally all it's about. Was it forced? Or maybe you just didn't notice because it's so normalized. Gay characters are entitled to the same freedom. Aside from that, if a character does have to point out they are gay all the time when it doesn't make sense, this can also be bad writing. And a lot of times these bad scenarios are created by straight writers who are fetishizing gay characters.
This argument would have merit, if said character was marketed as "HOLY ****!! LOOK AT THIS!! STRAIGHT CHARACTER!!". Since it is not the case, this argument has no merit.

Aside from that it is not about romance, but about character's personality. Does said character has any other traits aside from being straight?
Because, a lot of times I see modern creators marketing their characters solely on basis of their sexual orientation and when you ask them "What traits this character has?" their answer is: "Gay".
Which is neither personality trait nor represents their talents and abilities.

Also, I don't think I've seen anyone "fetishizing" Gay characters in modern media. And if a character constantly reiterates that he is Gay, no matter what, this IS a bad writing.

Tokenism, fetishization, and virtue signaling is a problem in and of itself, not of LGBT characters. They exist in the real world and so they also exist in fictional environments. I also think there is nothing wrong with creators pointing out inclusion when inclusion did not exist previously.
I am not sure what do you mean by saying "tokenism, fetishization, and virtue signaling exist in the real world and so they also exist in fictional environments". This is a meaningless word soup, unless you mean there are shows, which deal with this stuff inside the show itself.

There is everything wrong with creators beating up their chests and screaming: "Look how cool we are - we add so and so characters!". No matter how you look at it is just embarrassing.

Also, most of the real efforts in representation were done in the 70s and 80s, so "cool kids" that think that real progressive stuff has started only in 2010s and before there were only white straight males in western media are just ignorant idiots.

Since we are speaking about TMNT here, yes, sexuality of characters does come up. There are lots of straight relationships, so other types of relationships should be allowed to exist when it makes sense. LGBT people aren't asking for the world here... we know we all together make up maybe 1 out of every 10 people... so by that logic, roughly 1 out of every 10 relationships portrayed in any form of media would realistically be some form of LGBT relationship, roughly speaking. When it falls below that ratio, it's perfectly fine; i personally don't see it as a hard quota or anything. But when it's consistently zero, the motivations for it are up for question. And no, I don't think "random third rate background character might have been gay" counts.
Just to note, no matter who am I or how I feel, I don't feel like I need any validation or affirmation, by "me" existing in any fiction.
In general, I would be angered by mere suggestion, that I put my value on what other people think of me or someone similar to me in fiction. Me is me, I deal with it daily and I don't need anything to reaffirm who am I.

[Coola Yagami]

Just to note, no matter who am I or how I feel, I don't feel like I need any validation or affirmation, by "me" existing in any fiction.
In general, I would be angered by mere suggestion, that I put my value on what other people think of me or someone similar to me in fiction. Me is me, I deal with it daily and I don't need anything to reaffirm who am I.

Same. Every time I hear someone ask 'why aren't there any black people in...' or 'finally, a black version that my son can look up that I never had a chance to...' and other such nonsense I look at myself and notice I had no problem looking up to Spider-Man, Batman and Captain America despite them not being Hispanic, and I never felt I couldn't relate to some form of fictional media because there aren't any (or not enough) Mexicans in it.

Hell back in my day, most of us acted pretty much 'white' when in school and hanging out. Yeah we were Hispanic, but we only used the Spanish when we went home to our older parents that aren't fluent in English. Any Mexican tradition comes from the home, but when we're outside we're soaking up all the American culture. So I also feel kinda 'not correctly represented' when we finally get a Hispanic character and he's forced to say 'ese' and other spanish words every other sentence to remind the viewers 'oh, they're Hispanic'. Like dude, a lot of us don't talk like that. But even so, It never bugged me enough to make a 'The Problem with Bumblebee Man' documentary or such nonsense cause I actually have a life.

[Leo656]

So I also feel kinda 'not correctly represented' when we finally get a Hispanic character and he's forced to say 'ese' and other spanish words every other sentence to remind the viewers 'oh, they're Hispanic'. Like dude, a lot of us don't talk like that.

Oh, man, dude. This is entirely off-topic but I'm sure you'll get what I mean. Big Eddy Guerrero fan from way back, but I couldn't stand his WWF run partly for that reason. I'd heard him talk for five years, and suddenly he's in the WWF and everything is "Mamacita" and "Esse vato" every third word. Like he couldn't speak a single sentence without throwing in "Esse", "Esse vato" or "Holmes". Like holy SH*T, dude. I know he was just doing his job but for f*ck's sake. The guy grew up in Texas (El Paso, but still) and his first language was ENGLISH.

But then, his boss at the time also infamously told Carlito Colon to "Spic it up" whenever he talked, in front of a room full of people without irony. "Because of the Hispanic audience", you see. Like they wouldn't know Carlito was from Puerto Rico unless he had a thick accent and all that. Just brutal.

Oddly, in Eddy's case, despite having him over-play his Mexican heritage, they also Anglicized the spelling of his name from "Eddy" to "Eddie" because "That's how white people spell it". Crazy! For the record, it was properly "Eddy" so that's how I always spell it.

But yeah, this sh*t can go wrong any number of ways. In stuff like the above, they were trying to be "inclusive" while only making things worse. How the Carlito stuff went by while Freddie Prinze Jr. was on the writing staff, I'll never know. This stuff has a habit of coming back around.

[Coola Yagami]

So weird. I wasn't into WWF during his era. I remember Eddy Guerrero more for his WCW run and being a massive heel.

[Leo656]

Lucky you.

I mean, he remained a great wrestler, but in the WWF his entire personality became "Get it? He's Mexican!" and unfortunately stayed that way until the day he died. Just brutal.

He wasn't the kind of guy to ever say no to the boss, but he definitely should have.

[skylord]

I'd be curious to run some numbers to see a comparison of LGBT characters in TMNT IDW vs real world in NYC. Sources vary but NYC in the real world has roughly 5%.

figuring it out would be difficult though since many characters show no romantic interests. I suppose the best way would be to place those characters in an undetermined field and set 5% of that group as LGBT. To be fair I would only count characters that live in New York City. I can't imagine the numbers being way off.

I'm not entirely caught up on IDW (barely know Jennika) but from what I remember the LGBT representation is pretty good. As a gay man myself, it never rubbed me the wrong way like some other properties have.

[ABrown]

What is with this topic coming up in forums for all of my favorite franchises lately?

[Coola Yagami]

What is with this topic coming up in forums for all of my favorite franchises lately?

Cause it's everywhere.

IDK, it's funny in a way. A few years back I don't recall a single black dude saying they wish (insert whatever fandom here) had more black people in it unless it was something that would have made sense, like say X-Men (Storm) or Blade or whatever that actually had black people in it. Not that long ago everyone wants at least one gay character in everything. Recently there's been a bigger emphasis in female led series, even if it means replacing a male lead, and to be honest even when the Spike Girls were a thing and they were all about Girl Power, we didn't have female ghostbusters or 'women-only showings' back then like we do now. Now it's everything must have at least one trans character in everything.

I wonder what's next? Will the furry fandom finally take over and demand that every form of entertainment now has at least one furry character in it.

[CyberCubed]

Cause it's everywhere.

IDK, it's funny in a way. A few years back I don't recall a single black dude saying they wish (insert whatever fandom here) had more black people in it unless it was something that would have made sense, like say X-Men (Storm) or Blade or whatever that actually had black people in it. Not that long ago everyone wants at least one gay character in everything. Recently there's been a bigger emphasis in female led series, even if it means replacing a male lead, and to be honest even when the Spike Girls were a thing and they were all about Girl Power, we didn't have female ghostbusters or 'women-only showings' back then like we do now. Now it's everything must have at least one trans character in everything.

I wonder what's next? Will the furry fandom finally take over and demand that every form of entertainment now has at least one furry character in it.

It really does seem these days there is at least one gay character in every show or movie now. I'm honestly hard pressed to remember any modern show where there isn't one.

These days EVERYONE is gay so it's not out of the ordinary but still.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

These days EVERYONE is gay so it's not out of the ordinary but still.

Wait a minute...

Cubed, are YOU gay?

Bro. What about Melissa!?

[CyberCubed]

I was born in the 80's so I can't be gay.

[Jester]

I was born in the 80's so I can't be gay.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/d6334a57f035787c4f72a7b96fc95900/tenor.gif?itemid=7363102

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was born in the 80's so I can't be gay.

You've seen the 80's mustaches, right?

[Leo656]

I don't even care, that line is so ridiculously bullsh*t absurd that I am absolutely stealing it. :lol::lol::lol:

That MIGHT be the funniest Cubed line ever. Holy sh*t. I'm actually rather impressed.

[neatoman]

I was born in the 80's so I can't be gay.

What? I can't tell if you're serious or joking half the time, but here I don't even understand what the joke would be.

[skylord]

Cause it's everywhere.

IDK, it's funny in a way. A few years back I don't recall a single black dude saying they wish (insert whatever fandom here) had more black people in it unless it was something that would have made sense, like say X-Men (Storm) or Blade or whatever that actually had black people in it...

I think there's a pretty big difference between black representation and LGBT representation in media. Good black representation in mass media predates the internet but you'll be hard pressed to find a lot of good mainstream representation of LGBT people before the popularity of the internet.

tokenism still exists for black people and its still pretty damn lazy when it happens. Still there exists several pieces of mainstream media that is predominantly black. Fresh Prince, Sister Sister, and The Cosby Show (ignoring how its tainted now, it was important at the time of course). This quality representation comes and goes but even just recently Black Panther was a huge success.

LGBT media is leagues behind as far as mainstream representation goes. I personally don't see a problem with a handful of LGBT characters in most media. We're not getting an LGBT black panther anytime soon. What's wrong with a character here and there?

[Andrew NDB]

LGBT media is leagues behind as far as mainstream representation goes. I personally don't see a problem with a handful of LGBT characters in most media. We're not getting an LGBT black panther anytime soon. What's wrong with a character here and there?

I think the biggest problem with the LGBT representation in comics, etc., is that lately there is a push for it to be... misrepresentation. As in, the representation that is being pushed distorts the truth and makes it seem like 1 in 5 people is LGBT... which simply isn't the case. It isn't even close to that number.

I'm OK with representation (though I definitely don't think a story -- whether it is a comic book or a movie or a TV show -- gets bonus points just because they shoved Diversity into it). But it has to actually be representative of reality.

[Coola Yagami]

I think the biggest problem with the LGBT representation in comics, etc., is that lately there is a push for it to be... misrepresentation. As in, the representation that is being pushed distorts the truth and makes it seem like 1 in 5 people is LGBT... which simply isn't the case. It isn't even close to that number.

I'm OK with representation (though I definitely don't think a story -- whether it is a comic book or a movie or a TV show -- gets bonus points just because they shoved Diversity into it). But it has to actually be representative of reality.

That and make actual new gay characters, don't make long-established straight characters that have had multiple partners suddenly wake up and realize they're gay just because that's the flavor of the sjw diversity virtue victim points of the month.

[skylord]

I think the biggest problem with the LGBT representation in comics, etc., is that lately there is a push for it to be... misrepresentation. As in, the representation that is being pushed distorts the truth and makes it seem like 1 in 5 people is LGBT... which simply isn't the case. It isn't even close to that number.

I'm OK with representation (though I definitely don't think a story -- whether it is a comic book or a movie or a TV show -- gets bonus points just because they shoved Diversity into it). But it has to actually be representative of reality.

While there certainly is overrepresentation of LGBT people in media in comparison to real life numbers, 1 in 5 is a bit of an overstatement. there is a marketing spin for LGBT inclusion and that definitely makes it feel like the numbers are more inflated. I dislike LGBT marketing generally. Oreos keeps trying to sell me rainbow cookies but **** you Nabisco.

and so I'm not just talking out my ass, GLAAD found in 2019 that 10.2% of regular characters in scripted primetime television were LGBT.
https://www.glaad.org/whereweareontv19

I also have to ask if it's actually important if numbers represent reality. Men have a larger share of media representation than women despite there being less men than women in the world. In the US, Hispanics are sharply underrepresented based on their US population numbers. Media has never truly represented reality.

If LGBT numbers were accurate to their real life counterpart, it would be harder for LGBT people to find representation. Let's say LGBT people make up 5% of the US (that's larger than the actual number but just go with me here.) A 5% increase in representation doubles their representation. Non-LGBT representation drops from 95% to 90%. Ultimately one group makes major gains for a minimal loss in the other. A group of people that may ultimately need more representation. there's plenty of studies that show good representation uplifts minority groups.

and yeah not gonna give a standing ovation every time Disney announces their "first gay character". Bad representation has to exist for good representation to be noticeable though. After all, there's plenty of godawful straight characters. Just makes the good ones stand out much more.

That and make actual new gay characters, don't make long-established straight characters that have had multiple partners suddenly wake up and realize they're gay just because that's the flavor of the sjw diversity virtue victim points of the month.

I will not defend certain stories (iceman being infamous of course) but it all depends on context. The development of the story, how you make it work with existing canon. I think a previously straight character can find out their bi and that can be handled pretty easily. Going full gay is harder but it can be done, it's just typically a trainwreck. In the case of a universe reboot, I don't see a reason why a character shouldn't be allowed to be LGBT. It doesn't erase the previous incarnation.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm OK with representation (though I definitely don't think a story -- whether it is a comic book or a movie or a TV show -- gets bonus points just because they shoved Diversity into it). But it has to actually be representative of reality.

I would argue that it doesn't have to be representative of reality.

It just needs to be well-written and intelligent. Meaningful. Not checking a box.

Humanity isn't a box of chocolates. You shouldn't just go down your cast list thinking "Okay, got me a gay, a lesbian, a black guy, a girl, a Mexican, and my token white guy. Am I missing anything?"

And at the same time, if you're looking at a box of nothing but Roman Nougats, you should probably change that up and make it more interesting.

"This cast is nothing but white dudes. Is that because they HAVE to be white dudes, or am I just being lazy and need to think about this some more?"

But writing intelligent, meaningful, GOOD stories and characters is hard. Much easier just to tick off all the boxes and assemble a nice box of diversity chocolates.

[Leo656]

I also think it's a bit less important to have X number of whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, gay/straight/bi/lesbian etc. characters. All of that is incidental.

The important thing is that they be good-looking. Life's too short to be forced to look at ugly people in fiction when Real Life already has that problem.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The important thing is that they be good-looking. Life's too short to be forced to look at ugly people in fiction when Real Life already has that problem.

:tlol: :tlol: :tlol: :tlol:

Are you telling me that Barbie movie with Melissa McCarthy headlining will never make money?

Or was it Amy Schumer? I forget...

[Leo656]

It was Amy Schumer, and for all that's been said I have seen her occasionally look kinda hot in brief spurts. Not for a while, but a few years ago, yeah.

What I'm telling you is that Rebel Wilson only has a career in films because Lefties took over the media and now we all have to deal with it. That sh*t can f*ck right off.

[Sumac]

I will not defend certain stories (iceman being infamous of course) but it all depends on context. The development of the story, how you make it work with existing canon. I think a previously straight character can find out their bi and that can be handled pretty easily. Going full gay is harder but it can be done, it's just typically a trainwreck. In the case of a universe reboot, I don't see a reason why a character shouldn't be allowed to be LGBT. It doesn't erase the previous incarnation.
It doesn't work that way in [CURRENT YEAR]: people behind those "inclusions" as well as their handmaidens, like to constantly remind everyone that THEIR new and DIVERSE version of the character is the only ONE that MATTERS. That all past iterations were made by EVIL STRAIGHT WHITE MEN in the time where women were walking incubators and blacks were working on plantations (1980s) and thus should be seen with disdain and shame.
And if you like old version of the character more than the new one, you are super nazi evil bigot hitler. No less.

And if you say that you don't like not the new iteration of the character, but a story and how they were written, you are still super evil nazi hitler with internalized racism / sexism / whatever and should dedicate time to educate yourself about your racist ways to repent for the greater future, spearheaded by your new socialist masters from Google and Apple and BLM.

Of course, I embellish few things, but that's the level of discourse now. So, excuse me, if people are wary of creators talking about "inclusion" and "diversity" and new versions of characters.

Personally, if you want to make a gay character, make a new one. If you are talented it'll work.

I wonder what's next? Will the furry fandom finally take over and demand that every form of entertainment now has at least one furry character in it.
They are pushing for trans now.
Which is both sad and hilarious.

[Leo656]

Oh Lord, tell me about it, with that kinda stuff and the propaganda inherent. For one example, the smug judgmental nonsense from "new" She-Ra fans after the Netflix fiasco towards "original flavor" She-Ra fans was the absolute pits.

That show and the entire debacle was a perfect example of someone maaaaybe having good intentions somewhere but taking it entirely too far by about ten miles. When the showrunner literally and without irony told the producers that "the gay agenda" was the show's entire raison d'etre, someone really. seriously should have stepped in. Especially when that same person reasoned, "She-Ra cannot be 'conventionally attractive' because sexualization has no place in a kids show"... and then proceeded to make almost every single main character gay, bi, or trans. So, She-Ra can't have boobs, because that is "Selling sex to kids", but the entire show's plot can be resolved in the series finale with a girl-on-girl kiss and your kids can see that and it's Perfectly Fine. :roll: "Gay Love Can Save The Universe" can be your show's ENTIRE point, and that's fine for kids. But She-Ra can't be curvy or wear a short skirt, THAT is dangerous and "toxic".

I mean, this is why most people don't take that sh*t seriously. Their transparency shows through so easily. It's not really about anything except "getting even" with people and "salty fanboy tears" and all that. And then they wonder why some people tell them to cram it.

[Coola Yagami]

Oh Lord, tell me about it, with that kinda stuff and the propaganda inherent. For one example, the smug judgmental nonsense from "new" She-Ra fans after the Netflix fiasco towards "original flavor" She-Ra fans was the absolute pits.

That show and the entire debacle was a perfect example of someone maaaaybe having good intentions somewhere but taking it entirely too far by about ten miles. When the showrunner literally and without irony told the producers that "the gay agenda" was the show's entire raison d'etre, someone really. seriously should have stepped in. Especially when that same person reasoned, "She-Ra cannot be 'conventionally attractive' because sexualization has no place in a kids show"... and then proceeded to make almost every single main character gay, bi, or trans. So, She-Ra can't have boobs, because that is "Selling sex to kids", but the entire show's plot can be resolved in the series finale with a girl-on-girl kiss and your kids can see that and it's Perfectly Fine. :roll: "Gay Love Can Save The Universe" can be your show's ENTIRE point, and that's fine for kids. But She-Ra can't be curvy or wear a short skirt, THAT is dangerous and "toxic".

I mean, this is why most people don't take that sh*t seriously. Their transparency shows through so easily. It's not really about anything except "getting even" with people and "salty fanboy tears" and all that. And then they wonder why some people tell them to cram it.

Legit. The showrunner behind NuShe-Ra literally said the entire reason she made the show was for that kiss between the female leads (good and evil). If Netflix or whoever gave her a hard no to that, the series would never have been made.

I recently found out there was some weird new Sailor Moon-type cartoon that looks like pure SJW to the max, to the point where one of the villains looks like Trump (like c'mon, I don't like the guy either, but waaaaaay too on the nose y'all). Someone commented that this is why these crackpots take pre-existing properties and **** them up with their ideologies, because whenever they try to make something 100% original you get **** like that magic friendship show.

[Andrew NDB]

That and make actual new gay characters, don't make long-established straight characters that have had multiple partners suddenly wake up and realize they're gay just because that's the flavor of the sjw diversity virtue victim points of the month.

Here's the way it works right now:

Step #1: Make a longstanding heterosexual character gay.

Step #2: Wait for backlash from the fans.

Step #3: Put out articles and interviews pointing the finger back at the fans, that they're bigots and they're the REAL snowflakes! Also, the haters are not true fans, and how "Important" what they're doing is, and so on.

Step #4: Just keep doing steps #1-3, regardless of sales. Double down and triple down.

In the US, Hispanics are sharply underrepresented based on their US population numbers. Media has never truly represented reality.

You're not wrong. Though you know who is Hispanic? Me. Times I have ever complained that I'm not being represented enough in fictional media: 0. Maybe I whined a lot when Bane wasn't Hispanic in "The Dark Knight," but I'm a big Bane fan, but that had nothing to do with me. I would have complained even if I was Ukrainian.

I don't and never needed to "see people like me" or was that ever important to me. Story and character first, not skin color. Because you know what putting prioritizing skin colors is, or even forcing people to make characters certain races? That is actual racism.

That show and the entire debacle was a perfect example of someone maaaaybe having good intentions somewhere but taking it entirely too far by about ten miles. When the showrunner literally and without irony told the producers that "the gay agenda" was the show's entire raison d'etre, someone really. seriously should have stepped in.

Absolutely. These people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a children's cartoon show. Certainly she should never again now.

"This cast is nothing but white dudes. Is that because they HAVE to be white dudes, or am I just being lazy and need to think about this some more?"

But writing intelligent, meaningful, GOOD stories and characters is hard. Much easier just to tick off all the boxes and assemble a nice box of diversity chocolates.

That's really the thought process now. It's a little scary how much they obsess about these things. Like, I work with a lot of... let's say younger filmmakers in the day to day here and there and 90% of them, that's all they worry about creatively. "Can we find a black guy? You know a few black guys, right?" "Should we make the Asian lady a lesbian?" "Ooh! Ooh! I think I can get this one transguy I met at film school!" and minimal thought to anything else. You know, like the 3 act structure and character motivations and the story arc.

Correction, they DO worry about other things. Things like, "Can we make it more of a shove and not a slap? We don't want to condone abuse," etc..


Are you telling me that Barbie movie with Melissa McCarthy headlining will never make money?

Or was it Amy Schumer? I forget...

Or Sarah Silverman, or Michelle Wolf... one of those. :lol:

[Leo656]

"Creatives" worrying about every single thing EXCEPT the "creative" end. Checking boxes. "Making the numbers even." Inclusion, great, but why should that be MORE important than storytelling? Why is "diversity of representation" MORE important than "Diversity of THOUGHT"? That's what's stupid about the whole thing, and that's when it becomes "forced". The fact that we're in a time when "Unless you have ___ number of X and _____ number of Y people, your show/movie/etc. simply isn't allowed to get made.

Legit. The showrunner behind NuShe-Ra literally said the entire reason she made the show was for that kiss between the female leads (good and evil). If Netflix or whoever gave her a hard no to that, the series would never have been made.



Absolutely. These people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a children's cartoon show. Certainly she should never again now.


Right? I mean, for me, the bald hypocrisy of "We're not trying to sell sex to kids" being spoken loudly and repeatedly to justify their creative decisions when that was EXACTLY what they were in a sense doing by making every character LGBT+ was absolutely ridiculous and disingenuous. The very idea that a She-Ra with curves and a short skirt might "warp" any of the little kids who watched it, but the entire show was built by design to a climax of two underage-looking chicks making out, and that's Just Fine... ugh. Way to talk out both sides of your mouth. That entire project went WAY beyond the boundaries of simple "inclusion and representation". And what's worse, they were VERY openly hostile and antagonistic about it, to the point where at one point both the showrunners AND the fans of it were openly mocking the original show and anyone who liked it with language every bit as acerbic and disrespectful as they claim other people were being in voicing their displeasure. Even when Melendy Britt, the original voice of She-Ra, spoke up saying that she didn't entirely understand the creative choices and asking for fans of the new show to at least be respectful of those who had a different opinion, she was shouted down for being "irrelevant". :roll: Classy!

And that's where these things get pushback and backlash. They SAY "We're just trying to be inclusive, NOT indoctrinate anyone", but in situations like the above... come on. "Indoctrination" was entirely the goal and endgame and anyone could see it. And if anyone said they didn't like it, or weren't comfortable with their kids seeing it, or even just as simple as "This doesn't feel like She-Ra, to me," they got called all kinds of nasty names and told to drop dead, in some cases literally.

Hearts in the right place? Maybe. I kinda don't think so, but maybe. Heads? Jammed three feet up their collective asses. They completely stuck to Andrew's "script" cited above of piggybacking on a well-known brand in order to force-feed people their own chosen agenda, and whenever anyone raised a grievance they were met with anything from "OK Boomer" to "Kill yourself, Nazi" and everything in between.

That's not the way to "win hearts and minds" no matter how noble you THINK you are. And that's when people push back.



Or Sarah Silverman, or Michelle Wolf... one of those. :lol:

Sarah Silverman's got awesome cans, though. I'd do her. :trazz:

[Coola Yagami]

Every time I see these wackos double down on their horrible shows despite nobody liking them and losing money, it reminds me of the Joker burning the huge stack of money saying 'its not about the money, it's about sending a message'.

[Sumac]

I mean, this is why most people don't take that sh*t seriously. Their transparency shows through so easily. It's not really about anything except "getting even" with people and "salty fanboy tears" and all that. And then they wonder why some people tell them to cram it.
It's like those people were bullied in school and decided to get even with their bullies by attacking and remaking stuff they liked.

"Creatives" worrying about every single thing EXCEPT the "creative" end. Checking boxes. "Making the numbers even." Inclusion, great, but why should that be MORE important than storytelling? Why is "diversity of representation" MORE important than "Diversity of THOUGHT"? That's what's stupid about the whole thing, and that's when it becomes "forced". The fact that we're in a time when "Unless you have ___ number of X and _____ number of Y people, your show/movie/etc. simply isn't allowed to get made.
In their heads they think that adding more diverse people on the roster will lead to "diversity of thought", but thing is most of the time it is nothing, but an empty lip service, since the project is usually led by white people anyway.

Also, it doesn't really matter what color of the skin of the person is, if they are coming from a similar environment, in terms of economic situation and education.

One can say that "diversity of thought" is just a nice way to say "white people are shallow and stupid, only non-whites has something worthy to say (now)". Despite the fact that white people had created the most prosperous and safe civilization, but when logic has stopped fanatics?

[Hamato Yoshi]

Bruce Lee used to parody gays as a joke , the gay villain was meant as comedy element , just as the cat watching Lee vs Norris had deeper meaning than just being cute

[CyberCubed]

In the Nick 2012 cartoon I think Karai and Shinigami were lesbian lovers. The fact that this image is actually official and made by the shows staff says a lot:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/f3/dd/8ff3dd62a9264d5dd8fe526348ed3d30.jpg

Looking at the pic above I don't see how anyone cannot see the romantic undertones, it just screams "lesbians!" If the 2012 show ever gets revisited I hope they appear together as lesbians.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

In the Nick 2012 cartoon I think Karai and Shinigami were lesbian lovers. The fact that this image is actually official and made by the shows staff says a lot:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/f3/dd/8ff3dd62a9264d5dd8fe526348ed3d30.jpg

Looking at the pic above I don't see how anyone cannot see the romantic undertones, it just screams "lesbians!" If the 2012 show ever gets revisited I hope they appear together as lesbians.

Careful, Cubed. Melissa Benois will be jealous.

[CyberCubed]

It would just be interesting to see some cartoon lesbians from the land of lesbiana. No version of Karai has been lesbian before but I guess there's a first time for everything. I just want to see some lesbos.

[Leo656]

Cubed, weren't you the one who posted that article about the study that "proved" all chicks are swishy? Wasn't even that long ago.

If you believe that study - and I absolutely do - then that means by default EVERY version of Karai that's ever been presented is at the very least bisexual.

C'mon, guy, keep your gimmick straight.

[ABrown]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/f3/dd/8ff3dd62a9264d5dd8fe526348ed3d30.jpg

Is that image actually from an episode or did someone make that?

[neatoman]

Is that image actually from an episode or did someone make that?

It's from the season 5 intro sequence.

[newfan]

How many times now Cubed?

It was from the music video they did as an extra thing which they added on the crossover DVD. They kinda just moved in and clasped hands as part of what I guess was meant to be a dance. April also Kissed Donnie at the end of that video.

[Coola Yagami]

It's from the season 5 intro sequence.

No, it's from the Ice Cream Kitty music video.

[ABrown]

I'll bet ya Cubed thinks that the Charmed sisters were lesbian lovers too. :lol:



https://hollywoodlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/charmed-reboot-not-real-ftr.jpg?w=620

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'll bet ya Cubed thinks that the Charmed sisters were lesbian lovers too. :lol:



https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Charmed-Halliwell-Sisters.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=960&h=500

Okay, NOW I'm genuinely interested in this thread. :tgrin:

[Leo656]

Daaaaaaaamn, Rose McGowan was hot before she did all that cocaine with Marilyn Manson and lost her damn mind. :ohwell:

Shannon Doherty was a smokin' little pistol, too. Real shame she's been so sick. :ohwell:

[neatoman]

No, it's from the Ice Cream Kitty music video.

Oh yeah, faulty memory.

[CyberCubed]

This happened in issue #113:

https://forum.comicsheatingup.net/uploads/default/original/2X/b/bf3e85d7b75a526efc1222a82c1b126173f2674a.jpeg

LESBIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!! LESBIANS!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!1111

To be fair Jennika is bisexual since she had a boyfriend in the past and also dated Casey for awhile when she was human, but eh, once you go lesbian you never go back.

[neatoman]

This happened in issue #113:

https://forum.comicsheatingup.net/uploads/default/original/2X/b/bf3e85d7b75a526efc1222a82c1b126173f2674a.jpeg

LESBIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!! LESBIANS!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!1111

To be fair Jennika is bisexual since she had a boyfriend in the past and also dated Casey for awhile when she was human, but eh, once you go lesbian you never go back.

But we already got Lindsey...

[IndigoErth]

Who says Jennika was even into it? That isn't exactly confirmed.

[frank_one]

I guess having LGBT stuff in the series is ok at this point. I mean, people who don't like this kind of stuff have stopped buying it long ago.

[Sumac]

For pretending to be a "progressive" 'cubed really loves to break a character, isn't he?

[Andrew NDB]

To be fair Jennika is bisexual since she had a boyfriend in the past and also dated Casey for awhile when she was human, but eh, once you go lesbian you never go back.

That's not true, lots of women come back from being lesbian (the Anne Heche syndrome). Its dudes that really don't really waver. Once -- and this is me paraphrasing how a funny fellow once illustrated it to me -- a dude becomes gay, it's generally speaking "a vortex of ass from which there is no return."

And that seems to be true... I've never really heard of any dude un-becoming gay but I've known women who going into their 20s identified as lesbian, but by 30 were only into dudes and never really looking back.

[Leo656]

Not to mention that "Gay Until Graduation" is a legitimate college phenomenon. Especially amongst conservative women who just want to "experiment" a little before they have to settle down and raise a family. Which in turn leads to a lot of lesbians hating bisexual women, because they feel like they wear same-sex attraction like a Halloween costume that can easily be taken off and discarded when convenient.

The whole "shades of gay" thing is very fascinating. It's like Dr. Venkman's laundry thesis: "I have more than just two grades of laundry; there's not just 'Clean' and 'Dirty', there are many subtle levels." So it goes with women and same-sex attraction.

If I were a chick I'd probably be into chicks. For one thing, boobs are awesome. Beyond that, though, lots of guys won't chow the beaver, and most chicks I know say that the guys who will are crap at it, which is why those chicks keep chicks on the side. Makes sense to me!

[frank_one]

once you go lesbian you never go back.Wasn't it "Once you go black you never go back"?

[Leo656]

Used to be. Then some white chick got a ruptured cervix and now we don't even joke about it no mo'.

[CyberCubed]

I assume many of those women eventually realized they wanted to have children, so they go back to men after having some lesbian fun when they're younger. Of course some do stay lesbian permanently, so there's that too.

The thing is there's not much stigma against lesbians. Men like lesbians, straight women like lesbians...and even lesbians like lesbians...which is kinda ironic when you stop to think about it. So it makes sense that it's so common. But yeah if I were a female I'd be a total lesbian for sure.

[Last Ronin]

Well I'm a lesbian.... har har har *old joke*

I don't understand how woman can be into men, that's disgusting.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I think Mister Ogg from the classic series was a homosexual. There is nothing about him that seems like a straight guy. However, since he is from dimension z you never know.

[Prowler]

I see CyberCubed is still saying the same things about women as ever.

[Leo656]

Did they stop being true? :lol: :trazz:

[Prowler]

Did they stop being true? :lol: :trazz:

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with cubed. I'm just stating the fact he keeps repeating himself. Some things never change. :tgrin:

[Andrew NDB]

Used to be. Then some white chick got a ruptured cervix and now we don't even joke about it no mo'.

https://media.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/giphy.gif

[ssjup81]

I think Mister Ogg from the classic series was a homosexual. There is nothing about him that seems like a straight guy. However, since he is from dimension z you never know.Thought Mr. Ogg was a ripoff Peewee Herman...

[Mad Dog McMutt]

Thought Mr. Ogg was a ripoff Peewee Herman...

He was based off Peewee Herman. Doesn't mean he isn't super flamboyant.