Ninja Turtles vs. Thundercats [Archive]

Leo656

10-20-2003, 04:03 PM

This is like when Lobo fought Wolverine in that DC vs Marvel crossover a few years back that the fans voted on: not even a contest.

In that scenario, Wolverine won because he's the most popular character in comics and the fans voted for him. Anyone with a brain, however, knows that it's physically impossible for Lobo to lose to ANYONE, let alone Wolverine. It makes Lobo's character rather dull and one-dimensional that he's completely unkillable, but that's the way he's written.

It's the same thing with TMNT vs Thundercats. Four mutant turtles trained in the martial arts against upwards of nine Thundercats who are bigger, stronger, faster, AND aided by magic. Much as I love Ninja Turtles, there would BE no fight. The 'cats would take it in about a minute and a half, no longer. I mean, in the new Superman/Thundercats comic that's coming out, Lion-O knocks Superman for a loop. Superman. As IF any of the TMNT could win against someone who could take down f*cking Superman......

Shellfox

10-20-2003, 04:58 PM

but on the plus side at least the 2 snarfs would be killed :evilgrin:

Mars-Chan

10-20-2003, 05:18 PM

:lol: I hated him! :lol:

10-20-2003, 05:46 PM

I was gonna go with the turtles till that nice little fact about knockin out Superman....

Leo656

10-20-2003, 06:08 PM

Glad I could be the voice of reason. :D

cqb101

10-20-2003, 06:12 PM

T-cats by far......Although if the turtles had Casey, Usagi, and Ninjara on their sideit's a whole different ball game.... :evilgrin:

TMNTGal

10-20-2003, 07:35 PM

Ninjas are assassins! Those kitties would lose their heads before they'd be able to make a move. Mwa ha ha ha!!!! :evilgrin:

Leo656

10-20-2003, 07:39 PM

And Lion-O's sword gives him "sight beyond sight", theoretically enabling him to predict anything they would do.

C'mon, let's try and be a LITTLE impartial here. I like TMNT way more than I like Thundercats, but there just isn't any way the TMNT could ever win in a fight, end of story.

R-iZZy

10-20-2003, 09:55 PM

I know the T-Cats are all high and mighty, but the leader can't go on one battle without his little playmates by his side. Every battle, he gets his ass kicked, then calls upon his friends, that is a sign of weakness. Raph could take him on...

And plus, even though most hated Venus, I'll add her to the mix. She was so pointless, but her Shinobi magic could have done a little something. Give Raph a sniper rifle and have him from a distance, he'll do something! Let's say in a weapons match... T-Cats have it. But when it comes to bare hands, knuckles, and feet...... Ninja Turtles all the way.

Kali

10-20-2003, 10:33 PM

Okay, if we have four turtles against all the Thundercats... the Cats would win, no doubt. BUT if we even out the numbers, then the TMNT side would stand a better chance. Add in that the Turtles are much less hesitant to do harm, or even kill, than the Cats are...

Let's just say there'd be a lot of patching up to do.

Leo656

10-20-2003, 10:45 PM

Well, I'm guessing few of you actually keep up on the Thundercats, since they're QUITE open to killing people... especially nowadays (if the new comics are counted as continuity, and for all intents and purposes they are).

I understand that this is a TMNT forum, and there are a lot of loyal TMNT fans here, and I myself like TMNT more than Thundercats, but quite simply Raphael has a better chance of getting pregnant than the TMNT would of winning this fight.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-20-2003, 11:01 PM

I love the T-Cats, but I don't think it's as open-and-shut as you all make it out to be. I really think it's anybody's fight.

Keep in mind the TMNT are fully-skilled Ninja (The T-Cats aren't)! AND, they have been out numbered before and won. They've also beaten super-poered foes before.

I think it comes down to home-town-advantage. Whoever's turf they fight in wins.

Other than that the TMNT's best hope is to get the Sword of Omens from Lion-O then rely on Ninja-stealth for the rest of the fight. That's their best hope.

Now, Splinter on the other hand can take-on ALL the Thundercat's No problem! :nod:

Duke

10-21-2003, 08:32 AM

This is alot closer than most people are making it out to be. You got people in hear shouting Turtles no contest, and Thundercats in less than 5 minutes. I just don't see it cut and dry like that either way. I mean the thundercats have the numbers and the sword of omens. But the turtles are ninjas! So it really comes down to a few factors.

1. Cheetara, her speed could be a real problem but all it takes is one ninja star in the leg and she's totally useless.

2. Tygra his unique talent of invisiblity may be problem for the less talented turtles, but against Splinter or Leo it really wouldn't make that much of a difference. As well trained ninjas they don't always rely on their sight.

3. Ben Gali is probably the most crucial element to the whole picture. Alot of people wouldn't see it this way but if Ben Gali goes down there is absolutely no way to fix the sword of omens if something happens to it. "With his Hammer of Thundera Bengali can fire blue energy blasts, shatter any opposing objects, or re-forge the Sword of Omens (a once impossible task.)"

So if these 3 cats die early its a whole new ball game. The fight really comes down to Lion-O and Pantro. The way i see it is that WillyKit, WillyKat, Pumyra, and Lynx-O are just numbers not really skilled fighters and wouldn't factor much into the outcome. By this i mean splinter would fight all 4 of them and win. So the battle really comes down to the sword of omens, if Donnie could come up with some way to just damage it and without Ben Gali to fix it, Leo beats the crap out of Lion-O. And while Leo kills Lion-O the other 3 turtles take the out the strongest thundercat Panthro.

But if the turtles can't kill Cheetara, Tygra, and Ben Gali quickly or Donnie can't figure out a way to damage/destroy the sword of omens, all 4 turtles and splinter die with only minimum casualties for the thundercats.

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 12:19 PM

T-cats by far......Although if the turtles had Casey, Usagi, and Ninjara on their sideit's a whole different ball game.... :evilgrin:
as much as I am a fan of Ninjara
BIG MAGIC SWORD, I swear I remeber an ep where the sword was 50 feet long or so and could pull people through the air (like thors hammer).
Unless Don Whips out the turnstone, the turtles are in a lot of trouble
Crap people kit and Kat make monsters out of pelats, the turtles are in a lot of trouble here.

The cats BREATH in SPACE, that alone says the guys are up aginst some tough stuff

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 12:45 PM

Yeah, the Turnstone would make quite a difference. :lol:

If they can take out the sword of omens early, then all they'd have to do is "disappear" and the T-cats would be forced to split up while the TMNT could stay together and gang-up on each Thundercat one at a time. This form of strategy is in Sun Tzu's book "The Art of War" which according to the official Mirage website is Leo's favourite book!

Of course, this plan would work much better in territory that the TMNT are familiar with so it comes down to "home-turf-advantage" again. I really do think this is anybody's fight!

I also think that whichever side does win would be pushed to their very limits and probably sustain great injury and casualties. Sounds like a villian's plan to rid himself of both teams to me! Perhaps a team-up would be more likely and productive than a battle!

cqb101

10-21-2003, 01:15 PM

What if the turtles had the sword of tengu? That would definately increase their chances of winning. powerful sword vs. powerful sword.

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 01:35 PM

If they can take out the sword of omens early, then all they'd have to do is "disappear" and the T-cats would be forced to split
well that'll be really hard since the only way to take out the sword, Magic (which the turtles don't have unless we count Venus, and theres no way of knowing if she could stop it), cover the eye (but they'd never guess to do that), or have Lion-o attack one of the other cats.
While the 3rd could be done the other 2 would never come up
Hech even getting the sword away from lion-o is hard since all he has to do is call it and it comes to him.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 02:40 PM

What if the turtles had the sword of tengu? That would definately increase their chances of winning. powerful sword vs. powerful sword.I agree! That would make a HUGE difference.

Originally posted by TetsuDeinonychus:
If they can take out the sword of omens early, then all they'd have to do is "disappear" and the T-cats would be forced to split-up

well that'll be really hard since the only way to take out the sword, Magic (which the turtles don't have unless we count Venus, and theres no way of knowing if she could stop it), cover the eye (but they'd never guess to do that), or have Lion-o attack one of the other cats.
While the 3rd could be done the other 2 would never come up
Hech even getting the sword away from lion-o is hard since all he has to do is call it and it comes to him.If all four Turtles gang-up on Lion-O they can overwhelm him or Leo could slash Lion-O's hand or Raph can throw his sai at Lion-O's hand then they just have to snatch it. But, their best bet really is to get between Lion-O and another cat, then jump away as he strikes. Again, it's anybody's fight!

Leo656

10-21-2003, 03:41 PM

I still disagree for the simple fact that the TMNT likely would have no idea what they were up against upon encountering the 'Cats. No idea about their powers, the Sword of Omens, or any of that. Just like when Superman confronts them in the new comic, expecting to take them down easy, when Lion-O and his Big Friggin' Sword (tm) shows up and knocks Supes into the middle of next week.

If Lion-O can take SUPERMAN by surprise all by himself, then the 'Cats should have no trouble beating the TMNT, ninja or no. They just have too many powers and weapons at their disposal.

Next someone is gonna be asking if the TMNT can beat the JLA.... :roll:

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 04:12 PM

Leos right the sword when aginst Superman is an equaliser. Use the sword of omean aginst the TMNT is the equivalent of using the death star to hunt fish.
Besides the guys wouldn't expest the cats or there weapons to have the abilities they have. Yes see a swrod you generaly just expect a sword, not something that fires lightning! You see a little club you don't expect a 10 foot whip that makes fire. The guys rarely come up aginst situations like this regardless of reality.
Yes the guys could beat the Snarfs, Bengaly, Pumarya, and possible the Willys and Lynxo, the the core 4 would over power them easily. (which sucks since Pumarya sould have been way more powerful, instead she was a near useless chacter with no speaciel ability)
Regardless of what we may want to believe the Cats just have to much powers for the guys to beat

Leo656

10-21-2003, 05:09 PM

That and Cheetara wears less clothes than April, thus, by comic book logic, making her more effective in battle. :P

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 05:21 PM

Skill and strategy are worth far more than strength and powers. Besides, nobody said the Turtles would be fighting without knowledge of the Thundercats.

Leo656

10-21-2003, 05:28 PM

Well one would assume, since they're from another planet and they speak a different language... what could they know? :P

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 06:54 PM

We don't know the story. Maybe they were briefed on the Thundercats powers before hand. We don't know.

This fight has no setup. There is no info. on where they are, why they're fighting, what version TMNT are we using, and whether or not Splinter is involved.

That's why I say it's anybody's fight. I still say whoever has the home-turf-advantage has this fight. Also, If Splinter and/or the Turnstone are with the TMNT, then the fight is most certainly theirs, otherwise it's T-Cats all the way.

Basically, my official vote is...

Situation #1: The Thundercat's come to earth

The TMNT can win if they can eliminate the Sword of Omens and use the "split-em-up-and-gang-up-on-em" strategy.

Winner: TMNT

Situation #2: the TMNT go to Third-Earth (Or Thundara)

Unfamiliar to their new surroundings the TMNT are overwhelmed by the T-Cat's superior numbers and firepower.

Winner: The Thundercats

Situation #3: Splinter is with the TMNT (on EITHER planet)

Splinter who is in touch with the mystic side of Ninpo can use the "Kai" and "Jin" Kuji-In skills to predict the Thundercat's movements as well as the "sight beyond sight" ability works for Lion-O. This evens the odds a bit. Also, the "Zai" and "Retsu" Kuji-In skills would be useful in combat.

Also, his superior Skill and strategy is a distinct advantage, and if he manages to achieve "Mushin" level concentration then there is no stopping him!

Winner: TMNT

Situation #4: Magic Items (the TMNT have the Sword of Tengu and the Turnstone)

The Sword of Omens is probably stronger than the Sword of Tengu so that would be a bust, but the Turnstone is almost omnipotent so that would pretty much seal it. But, JUST the Sword of Tengu wouldn't be enough. It would be back to Stuations #1 and #2.

Winner: TMNT

(No Turnstone) Winner: Thundercats

You see what I mean by "anybody's fight"?

BTW Which Superman did Lion-O fight? :lol:

MW8979

10-21-2003, 06:56 PM

Raphael has a better chance of getting pregnant than the TMNT would of winning this fight.

But...that's a biological impossibility. Unless...there's more to Raphael then meets the eye....

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 07:14 PM

Basically, my official vote is...

Situation #1: The Thundercat's come to earth

The TMNT can win if they can eliminate the Sword of Omens and use the "split-em-up-and-gang-up-on-em" strategy.

Winner: TMNT

Situation #2: the TMNT go to Third-Earth (Or Thundara)

Unfamiliar to their new surroundings the TMNT are overwhelmed by the T-Cat's superior numbers and firepower.

Winner: The Thundercats

Situation #3: Splinter is with the TMNT (on EITHER planet)

Splinter who is in touch with the mystic side of Ninpo can use the "Kai" and "Jin" Kuji-In skills to predict the Thundercat's movements as well as the "sight beyond sight" ability works for Lion-O. This evens the odds a bit. Also, the "Zai" and "Retsu" Kuji-In skills would be useful in combat.

Also, his superior Skill and strategy is a distinct advantage, and if he manages to achieve "Mushin" level concentration then there is no stopping him!

Winner: TMNT

Situation #4: Magic Items (the TMNT have the Sword of Tengu and the Turnstone)

The Sword of Omens is probably stronger than the Sword of Tengu so that would be a bust, but the Turnstone is almost omnipotent so that would pretty much seal it. But, JUST the Sword of Tengu wouldn't be enough. It would be back to Stuations #1 and #2.

Winner: TMNT

(No Turnstone) Winner: Thundercats

You see what I mean by "anybody's fight"?

BTW Which Superman did Lion-O fight? :lol:
1. Even if you bi-pass the sword, the other cats weapons are to much for the guys. second if the TMNT split up the cats, the cats will still be in teams of 2 making at least 4 teams, and since panthro and Lynxo stratigists they'd stay in teams of 4 and 5 maing the TMNTs #s erelevent
2. Damn right eh TMNT wouldn't win, just the black widow shark would beat the turtles
3. Way over estimating Splinter, hes a rat, they're cats, biology says they have the edge. And I believe we say in the toon when april turned into a cat, Splinters very biology works aginst him making him fearful of them.
4. Sword of Tengu- NO HELP IN THIS FIGHT, We've seen in the past with Exclaiber and Sword of Plundar, the Sword of Omens is the most powerful sword known
TRurnstone- Yes the guys would win, the things makes black holes
Star of Thundara- As if the cats didn't have enought weapons, massive powers here
Book of Omens- Just suck everyone in and only the cats could leave
Stone Giants- DO I need to go into the near godzilla sized Stautues the ctas can call on

Hell look at teh veichals the two sides have- the Thunder Tank would beat the hell out of both the Battle Shell, Party Wagon and Hummer
ThunderStrike vs Blimp- Cats win
Feliner People- they just grab the guys tack them to space, open a door and watch the guys die since the cats BREATH IN SPACE

RskimB

10-21-2003, 07:20 PM

tmnt

MTN889

10-21-2003, 07:21 PM

heres my bit:
TMNT KICKS ASS. THUNDERCATS WOULD DIE.

Duke

10-21-2003, 07:27 PM

I mean, in the new Superman/Thundercats comic that's coming out, Lion-O knocks Superman for a loop. Superman. As IF any of the TMNT could win against someone who could take down f*cking Superman......How in the crap does Lion-O do anything to Superman? Lion-O is a pussy (cat) and Superman is freakin awesome.

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 07:36 PM

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 07:48 PM

1. Even if you bi-pass the sword, the other cats weapons are to much for the guys. second if the TMNT split up the cats, the cats will still be in teams of 2 making at least 4 teams, and since panthro and Lynxo stratigists they'd stay in teams of 4 and 5 maing the TMNTs #s erelevent The Thundercats (like ALL 1980s cartoon characters) tend to split up to find hiding enemies. Since they'd figure on covering more ground by splitting-up it would be one-cat-each (except Wily-Kat and Wily-Kit) 4 Turtles on one cat is no contest. They can just "Hit hard and fade away. Into the night" then repeat for the next one.

2. Damn right eh TMNT wouldn't win, just the black widow shark would beat the turtlesThe Shark No. the Cats yes! Because of Home-turf advantage!

3. Way over estimating Splinter, hes a rat, they're cats, biology says they have the edge. And I believe we say in the toon when april turned into a cat, Splinters very biology works aginst him making him fearful of them. We're talking about a HUMANOID rat Vs. HUMANOID cats. I don't think the "Cats eat Rats" thing applies here. Old-toon Splinter might be an exception but most Splinters would have no problem with the Thundercats.
4. Sword of Tengu- NO HELP IN THIS FIGHT, We've seen in the past with Exclaiber and Sword of Plundar, the Sword of Omens is the most powerful sword knownAgreed!
Turnstone- Yes the guys would win, the things makes black holesAlso agreed!
Star of Thundara- As if the cats didn't have enought weapons, massive powers here
Book of Omens- Just suck everyone in and only the cats could leave
Stone Giants- DO I need to go into the near godzilla sized Stautues the ctas can call onAgain, ANYBODY'S fight! But, I doubt they'd have a chance to call those.

Hell look at teh veichals the two sides have- the Thunder Tank would beat the hell out of both the Battle Shell, Party Wagon and Hummer
ThunderStrike vs Blimp- Cats winFeliner People- they just grab the guys tack them to space, open a door and watch the guys die since the cats BREATH IN SPACEI don't see any evidence that the Thunder-Tank is any stronger than the Battle-Shell, nor the Thunderstrike over the Turtle Blimp. And, they'd have to beat the Turtles BEFORE strapping them to the feliner, thus making that a waste of time.

Leo656

10-21-2003, 07:57 PM

I'unno, since the 'Cats were thoroughly dominated by the War Dogs, I'm pretty sure the animal chain of command still applies and Splinter would still be below the 'Cats on the food chain.

Shellfox

10-21-2003, 08:04 PM

1. Way over estimating Splinter, hes a rat, they're cats, biology says they have the edge. And I believe we say in the toon when april turned into a cat, Splinters very biology works aginst him making him fearful of them. We're talking about a HUMANOID rat Vs. HUMANOID cats. I don't think the "Cats eat Rats" thing applies here. Old-toon Splinter might be an exception but most Splinters would have no problem with the Thundercats.
Also agreed!
2. Star of Thundara- As if the cats didn't have enought weapons, massive powers here
Book of Omens- Just suck everyone in and only the cats could leave
Stone Giants- DO I need to go into the near godzilla sized Stautues the ctas can call onAgain, ANYBODY'S fight! But, I doubt they'd have a chance to call those.

3. Hell look at teh veichals the two sides have- the Thunder Tank would beat the hell out of both the Battle Shell, Party Wagon and Hummer
ThunderStrike vs Blimp- Cats winFeliner People- they just grab the guys tack them to space, open a door and watch the guys die since the cats BREATH IN SPACEI don't see any evidence that the Thunder-Tank is any stronger than the Battle-Shell, nor the Thunderstrike over the Turtle Blimp. And, they'd have to beat the Turtles BEFORE strapping them to the feliner, thus making that a waste of time.
1. Biology is Biology is biology, the very scents the cats put off would affect splinters mind. No matter how far hes come from his animal nature the scents would affect him and induce fear, thus lesting his usfullness in the fight. He still could but he would be no where near as effective.
2. By your own l;ogic if the turtles knowq the cats are coming the cat would know the turtles were coming grab the book and the key suck them into the book use the key to get out and let the Turtle sget killed by those 4 big dragon like guys
3. Well for one thing the Tanks build out of stuff from a spave ship capab;le of traveling through space so its pretty damn tough right there as apposed to savaged crap humasn make. The Tank has guns everywhere atleast 4 main cannons+ the 2 claws/buzzsaws+ acid resistant+ twin drill bits+ plus what ever Panthro came up with. The Battle shell only has a 3 missle launchers and teh hummer doesn't have any real weapons. The Wagon had a lot of weaopns (hovercraft mode, gun port, turtle pult, and waht ever don could put in it) so its closest to what the Tank, but its still comes down to what the vech are made out, and space ship has got to be tougher
Blimp vs Strike- Blimp has a few cannons and a glider. Strike is 3 vechs, all with cannons, and main ship has the tech to tack in everything about teh surrounding evnviroment that no eye could see.

MTN889

10-21-2003, 08:13 PM

dear jesus- i thought you guys were REAL tmnt fans.

Relay

10-21-2003, 08:30 PM

At first I would think that the Thundercats would win hands down considering they have special powers and there are so many of them. But then I remembered one thing.....Snarf! He caused the Thundercats more trouble than he was worth. I think in a fight with the TMNT, the Thundercats would have the upper hand at first, but then Snarf would do something stupd, like blow up Cat's Lair or some other screw-up, which would cost the Thundercats the fight.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-21-2003, 08:50 PM

I'unno, since the 'Cats were thoroughly dominated by the War Dogs, I'm pretty sure the animal chain of command still applies and Splinter would still be below the 'Cats on the food chain.Considering that my Grandmother's cats can (and occasionally do) beat up my Grandmother's dog. I'm fairly certain that the "Cats over Dogs" part of the "Chain" was just cooked up by humans because they're the two most popular animals for pets.

Kali

10-21-2003, 09:17 PM

Raphael has a better chance of getting pregnant than the TMNT would of winning this fight.
Hey, that happened in a couple fics...

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-22-2003, 12:08 AM

Here's my proof that Splinter is NOT afraid of cats: http://www.geocities.com/tetsudeinonychus/Splinter-W-Cat.jpg

panel from Volume #4, Issue #10

Shellfox

10-22-2003, 05:22 AM

Relay

10-22-2003, 06:09 AM

What if you were comparing the mentors of the group? You would have master Splinter versus Jagaa. Jagaa died in the first episode of Thundercats, so how good can he possibly be? He's a ghost throughout much of the series. Sure, there's some Obi Wan Kenobi glowing spirit kind of similarities there, but that can only get you so far. Splinter, on the other hand, kicks much ass and he is alive throughout the span of TMNT (until recently). These two founding fathers are what these two groups look to for support. Who would you rather be following, a guy that's been a ghost from the get-go or someone who could take on your worst enemy with his walking stick? The choice is simple. TMNT over Thundercats.

Shellfox

10-22-2003, 11:28 AM

What if you were comparing the mentors of the group? You would have master Splinter versus Jagaa. Jagaa died in the first episode of Thundercats, so how good can he possibly be?
Yeah but he died of OLD AGE, and aginst Grun the distroyer Ghost form the guy kicked much tail.

But true I'd rather follow Splinter in a fight, unless I had the sword at which point I'd want the walking talking owners manual

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-22-2003, 02:25 PM

People I once tried to arge that the TMNT could Beat teh Fantastic 4. You know what I learned from that situation-RAW POWER BEATS SKILL, it doesn't matter how faniaitical you are, for every 1 way you can make the underdog win there are 20 times the more powerful guys win. The TMNT are the underdogs, and no degree of fan devotion can really change that. The cats come from a time when heros were obscebely powerful, the TMNT were built with realisim in mind. The simple fact is sometimes raw power can beat skill So what, are you like all bitter now, or something? Anyway, I happen to strongly disagree with that statement. And besides, if you were reading, you'd know I am not taking either stance. I think either side could win it. And, fan-devotion is meaningless since I love both TMNT and Thundercats

And on the subject of TMNT Vs. F4.....

Mr. Fantastic would go down easy. The stretchy power is cool and would probably protect him from blunt weapons (like the Bo and Nunchaku), but Leo and Raph would slice and stab him to pieces. Leo's swords would be especially leathal to him.

Invisible Girl is a no-brainer. Think about it. In "Shredder Strikes Back" Leo defeated the Foot-tech-Ninja! Since he defeated several invisible people who were skilled in Ninja Taijutsu combat, it's obvious that he can defeat one invisible non-ninja! Alternately Don could use his special goggles to see her.

Human Torch is a little more challenging. He can shoot fireballs and you can't get to close to him or his burning body will scorch you. Two words: Stealth Tactics! The Turtles would stay hidden until finally Leo would surprise attack Human Torch from behind and cleave him in half! It would have to be Leo beacuse raph and Mike's weapons are too short and Don's Bo would catch fire. But the others could pelt Human Torch with shuriken and other projectiles from various directions to help out.

The only variable is Ben Grim: The Thing! I think the best bet is for the TMNT to lure or drive him into water! There has got to be a river somewhere! The Turtles could lead the fight onto a bridge and two Turtles could take his ankles while the other two pounce him sending them all in to the river! I imagine that with his stone-like body Ben can't be much of a swimmer, while the Turtles are right at home in water.
Of course, that's just assuming that the Things flesh is too strong for Leo's sword to cut through. If by some weird (unlikely) chance Leo's sword is sharp enough to cut Ben's flesh than Leo could just slice him up while dodgeing Ben's powerful punches!

So not only could the TMNT beat the Fantastic Four, but Leo could defeat at least 3 of them single handedly!

Like when Indaina Jone meet that gut with teh sword, Sword boy did all those fancy moves and in the end Indy just shot him. (granted ford had diearea at the ttime or something)A truly skilled swordsman does not stand there showing off. If he'd have struck Indy from the start(like a REAL skilled fighter would), Indy would be dead!
The point of that scene was not to hesitate! Timing is part of skill so it was the swordsman's LACK of skill that was his downfall. Anyway, you think Indy'd be so great without his whip-skills? Think about how ineffective he'd be if he couldn't use that whip properly

Voltron

10-23-2003, 04:22 PM

Ok look. Every comic/cartoon fight goes the same way.

First encounter. One side ALWAYS has the upper hand.

Lion-O would show off the sword, and everything. Turtles get hurt, blah blah blah.

The Turtles would retreat using smoke bombs or some **** and then talk about everything. Donny would undoubtedly say something like "That red jewel on the sword seems to be the source of his power! If we can obstruct it, then he loses everything!

So the turtles hatch their little plan, and go and find Lion-O and cover the Eye with clay, yadda yadda yadda Lion-O dies. Yadda Yadda Yadda TMNT raid Cat's Lair,

No Eye of Thundera = No sight beyond sight

No Sight Beyond Sight = No fore knowledge of impending doom*

* Unless the use Cheetara's ESP, but that almost kills her

Killing the Cats off in order of threat. Cheetara's speed, Tygra's genius, and then Panthero would be like "Let's Party!" And then all these sweet comic characters would come and party down at Cat's Lair, and what not.

The End.

Leo656

10-23-2003, 05:17 PM

Or if it were a fanfic, they'd all end up taking turns on Cheetara. :lol:

Tavares

10-23-2003, 05:58 PM

its really hard to decide which is better. Thundercats had more people in their series then ninja turtles, but TMNT was much cooler because everyone in it has the spotlight at one point.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-26-2003, 11:38 PM

Ok look. Every comic/cartoon fight goes the same way.

First encounter. One side ALWAYS has the upper hand.

Lion-O would show off the sword, and everything. Turtles get hurt, blah blah blah.

The Turtles would retreat using smoke bombs or some sh** and then talk about everything. Donny would undoubtedly say something like "That red jewel on the sword seems to be the source of his power! If we can obstruct it, then he loses everything!

So the turtles hatch their little plan, and go and find Lion-O and cover the Eye with clay, yadda yadda yadda Lion-O dies. Yadda Yadda Yadda TMNT raid Cat's Lair,

No Eye of Thundera = No sight beyond sight

No Sight Beyond Sight = No fore knowledge of impending doom*

* Unless the use Cheetara's ESP, but that almost kills her

Killing the Cats off in order of threat. Cheetara's speed, Tygra's genius, and then Panthero would be like "Let's Party!" And then all these sweet comic characters would come and party down at Cat's Lair, and what not.

The End.I think we've found our solution! :D

heretic888

10-28-2003, 12:22 PM

I thought I'd add a little sanity to the mix here....

Which TMNT are we talking about here?? Which Thundercats?? Where does the fight take place?? Who all is there??

All of these conditions would seriously influence the outcome.

Also, tetsu, while the turtles do evince knowledge of some of the kuji in the Mirage comics, the system you are referring to would not have been taught to them unless they were indoctrinated into Mikkyo Buddhism.

The Kuji Goshin Ho in particular, contrary to what Hayes says in some of his books, is not a part of Ninpo. However... there ARE Ninpo-specific kuji systems in there.

heretic888

10-28-2003, 12:54 PM

I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and assume we're talking about the Mirage TMNT.

If so, the TMNT win. No contest.

Scenario: Lion-o attacks one of the Ninpo-trained TMNT with superduper sword. TMNT applies mutodori waza and takes sword from him while he's attacking. TMNT kills him instantly with his own weapon and then proceeds to kill his friends.

Other scenario: TMNT "sense" the Thundercats approach and hide via invisibility arts. Pick off Thundercats one by one. Ends with Leo or Mike snapping Lion-o's neck from behind. "Sight Beyond Sight" doesn't detect the turtles as danger because they are not "evil".

Yet another scenario: Somehow, the Cats overcome the TMNT's "ninja senses" and ambush them. Cats quickly realize they are no match for the Turtles in close quarters (these are the guys that took down four of the strongest Triceratons in the galaxy like it was nothing). More than likely, at least half of the 'Cats would be dead until they figured out to attack from a distance. Only then, this gives the TMNT a chance to escape using their stealth skills. Which they do... and proceed to pick them off one by one.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-28-2003, 11:11 PM

Good Answers!

heretic888

10-29-2003, 10:19 AM

Indeed, tetsu. Indeed.

As for the "raw power beats skill" thing, i suggest a couple of you pick up a few Batman comics here or there. Or, better yet, see how Batman fares in the JL cartoon.

The fact is that the Turtles are very, very, very skilled at what they do. In the TMNT RPG, all four of them have a 98% skill in Prowl (moving around without being seen or heard). That basically means there is between a 1% and 2% chance that any of them could actually be detected (in good conditions that is; meaning, fairly dark with lots of terrain to hide behind). Simple truth is you can't fight what you can't see --- that rule, of course, does not really apply to the Turtles who in a recent issue of the Mirage series demonstrated they can fight just as easily blinded (kinda blows Lion-o's "Sight Beyond Sight" out of the water).

Additionally, the Turtles are just better fighters. I mean, look at the kinda stuff they've done. They are much, much more skilled in hand-to-hand. Easily.

That's all for now.

Bowser_Koopa

10-29-2003, 10:54 AM

The fact is that the Turtles are very, very, very skilled at what they do. In the TMNT RPG, all four of them have a 98% skill in Prowl (moving around without being seen or heard). That basically means there is between a 1% and 2% chance that any of them could actually be detected (in good conditions that is; meaning, fairly dark with lots of terrain to hide behind). Simple truth is you can't fight what you can't see --- that rule, of course, does not really apply to the Turtles who in a recent issue of the Mirage series demonstrated they can fight just as easily blinded (kinda blows Lion-o's "Sight Beyond Sight" out of the water).

Additionally, the Turtles are just better fighters. I mean, look at the kinda stuff they've done. They are much, much more skilled in hand-to-hand. Easily.

That's all for now.

that just reminds me of the movie, when they hid anywhere they could when april ordered a pizza, and pizza boy didn't realiza as far as i remember (haven't seen the movies in a while), all i know is that they hid with ninja skill

heretic888

10-29-2003, 12:54 PM

I think most people's problems in scenarios like this (errrr...WHO'D WIN IN A FIGHT!!) is what happens if one side engages in unconventional warfare. The fight could easily go the Turtles' way if they decide to be sneaky and use smoke bombs, hit-and-run tactics, stealth, guerilla warfare, or even set up traps and ambushes. They would literally slaughter the 'Cats (or most other groups for that matter).

I once heard a saying that I liked: "There are only two types of people in a fight: cheaters and losers."

I think that typifies this situation quite well. The Turtles strike me as more likely the kind that would "cheat" in order to get out of the fight unscathed.

Of course, none of this even takes into account that the Turtles could probably take the 'Cats in hand to hand. Unless the 'Cats could use their vehicles or take advantage of the long-range powers of some of their weapons, then they'd die. Plain and simple. And, even then, there's a good chance the Turtles would be able to avoid their weapons long enough to hide or sneak away, and thus ambush them later.

Think about it.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-29-2003, 10:29 PM

I think the REAL issue is "Who is making them fight each-other?". I mean, they're both good-guys. There is some sort of darker force at work here, some mutual enemy of both the TMNT and the Thundercats is trying to get them to destroy each-other!

It would be better if they teamed up to track-down this enemy instead of fighting each-other. :wink:

Leo656

10-29-2003, 10:42 PM

Could just be a misunderstanding. When the 'Cats show up in Metropolis in the Superman/Thundercats crossover, they *appear* to be hostile, and the fact that they don't speak our language doesn't help matters much. Thus, the typical comic book "Big Character Misunderstanding" that inevitably leads to the "Big Crossover Fight Scene". It never fails. :D

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-29-2003, 10:52 PM

Which usually ends up with "The Big Character Draw", and "The Big Character Team-Up", if I'm not mistaken.

Leo656

10-29-2003, 11:24 PM

Indubitably! Neither side can "win" or "lose", because neither side (and neither publishing company for that matter) can afford to look bad in the least! The only way to do it legit would be to have a fan voting like they did with DC vs Marvel, and... well... the fans screwed that up a few times too... I mean c'mon, Wolverine over Lobo? But at least Superman beat the Hulk, and Aquaman dropped a killer whale on Namor's head while he was filibustering... bwahahahaaaa.... :lol:

That Matt Guy

10-29-2003, 11:29 PM

Mumm-Ra would come in and finish all of them off. The End.

GK Punk

10-29-2003, 11:32 PM

Hell yeah Matt, Hell yeah....

Leo656

10-29-2003, 11:40 PM

True... there aint NOTHIN' the TMNT could do against MUMM-RA, THE EVERLIVING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA.... :evilgrin:

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-30-2003, 02:31 AM

They'd have to beat him BEFORE he transforms! :lol:

Bowser_Koopa

10-30-2003, 10:14 AM

The only way to do it legit would be to have a fan voting like they did with DC vs Marvel, and... well... the fans screwed that up a few times too... like when they made ppl vote to see if the joker should kill robin......u had a short life robin :evilgrin:

heretic888

10-30-2003, 11:31 AM

I think the REAL issue is "Who is making them fight each-other?".

No one is necessarily forcing them to fight each other. It could just be a simple misunderstanding.... the Thundercats, for example, would probably think the TMNT look pretty damn similar to the "evil mutants" on their planet. And, if the 'Cats were plopped in the middle of New York, they would most likely be attacked by some freaked-out citizens, defend themselves, and the TMNT would jump in right there to try and stop things from gettin' outta hand. There are dozens of possibilities, really.

I mean, they're both good-guys. There is some sort of darker force at work here, some mutual enemy of both the TMNT and the Thundercats is trying to get them to destroy each-other!

Uhh.... no, not necessarily. Just because two groups of people are "good guys" doesn't mean they don't disagree, have misunderstandings, or duke it out. Happens all the time, in real life and in fantasy.

It would be better if they teamed up to track-down this enemy instead of fighting each-other.

*chuckles* Nah, it'd be better to focus on the battle-royale instead of on some cheesy background story with Mumm-ra and the resurrected-and/or-cloned Shredder team up.

Which usually ends up with "The Big Character Draw", and "The Big Character Team-Up", if I'm not mistaken.

*sigh* Yeah... if you ask me, that is cliche, kinda corny, and cowardly. The writers turn it into a "oh, we're really on the same side so let's not fight anymore" so no one can be declared a "winner". Thus, no controversy. Lame.

True... there aint NOTHIN' the TMNT could do against MUMM-RA, THE EVERLIVING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....

You are aware the Mirage TMNT defeated a GOD (Loki), right?? Not to mention... Cronos, the Grendel, Cerebus, some swamp-demon thingy, and some psycho-scorpion-tail-thingy.... all in one day, too.

If you're gonna tell me Mumm-ra is more powerful than the Grendel, I am forced to chuckle. :roll:

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-30-2003, 01:29 PM

You are aware the Mirage TMNT defeated a GOD (Loki), right?? Not to mention... Cronos, the Grendel, Cerebus, some swamp-demon thingy, and some psycho-scorpion-tail-thingy.... all in one day, too.

If you're gonna tell me Mumm-ra is more powerful than the Grendel, I am forced to chuckle. Good Point, and BTW I LIKE cheesy team-up stories, but I'd want the battle before the team-up to be fierce. :D

Leo656

10-30-2003, 09:40 PM

Well, let's be fair and say that if anyone besides, you know, the people who CREATED the franchise were involved with the writing of that story, there is most likely very little chance the TMNT would stand a chance against any deity or godlike figure because it quite frankly just doesn't work that way.

I mean, next someone will be trying to convince me that the TMNT, through their exceptional stealth and martial arts skills, could, together, beat Superman in a fight. Not Special Superman, either, Brother Tetsu! I mean SUPERMAN, as in, the guy who could see them even if they were hiding in shadow, the guy who wouldn't even NEED to see them because he could hear their hearts beating, the guy who could physically not be harmed by anything they did... and yet, I just know SOMEONE is gonna come in here and argue, in all seriousness, that the TMNT could beat Superman in a fight. Such is the case with people who make it a habit to avoid logic and common sense. :P

It's like I've said in the many, many "Batman vs Superman" debates I've been in over the years... first of all, whoever "won" would weigh entirely on whose book they were fighting in, and secondly, Superman would win, because Superman once took down the entire JLA **by himself**, and Batman had his precious Kryptonite with him and that's just all there is to it. There's fantasy, ("hey, wouldn't it be neat if Batman beat Superman in a fight?") and then there's reality (Superman would probably just melt the ground under Batman's feet into tar and create a vortex around Bats at super-speed, sucking out his oxygen and rendering him unconscious, from a safe distance where the Kryptonite wouldn't reach him... at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....).

And that said, the reality is that the way the characters are written and the abilities they possess, the TMNT as written by ANYONE besides Peter Laird would simply not look very good against the Thundercats in any kind of a physical altercation. Again, it's not a knock against the TMNT, it's just the way the characters are written. Just like Wolverine could never beat Lobo because Lobo is completely invulnerable (way moreso than Wolverine), I honestly believe that the 'Cats' magic puts them well over the edge. That mixed with the TMNT likely not being familiar with the 'Cats before battling them, and I think it'd be a tough-fought victory for the 'Cats, but a victory nonetheless.

Tetsu Deinonychus

10-31-2003, 12:02 AM

The fact that we've all been able to come up with believable scenarios for both sides plus what Leo said about it depending on who wrote the story, plus Heretic saying the Mirage TMNT would win but the Cartoon TMNT would lose, pretty much says what I've been saying all along.

IT'S ANYBODY'S FIGHT!!!! :D

BTW Not EVERYONE would lose against Lobo. I happen to think Al Bundy is the only truly unbeatable character in all of fiction!

Click HERE (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6342) for details :wink:

Leo656

10-31-2003, 12:43 AM

Well of course not everyone would lose against Lobo... Superman beat him, as did Guy Gardner... but it's almost always a case of either tricking Lobo into thinking he's won when he hasn't (cuz for all his invulnerability the guy's about as dumb as a sack of hair), or Lobo just getting bored and going off to find a better fight. Since his character was created without any real weaknesses, along with the power to never be killed (whenever he "dies", every drop of his blood can grow into a new host body, sometimes he comes back as a woman, or a squirrel, or a snot nosed "Young Justice" brat), it's pretty much impossible to beat the guy outright.

Yes, characters that powerful are one-dimensional and kind of boring, but hey, it was the 80s. That kinda stuff was in. People didn't want plot, they wanted blood and sex and scruffy characters with ripped leather and ill-shaven facial hair :lol:

GK Punk

10-31-2003, 12:48 AM

Are we forgetting Rob Van Dam?

"ONE OF A KIND!"

Kali

10-31-2003, 01:07 AM

at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....)
Dude, don't scare me like that! That ain't funny... :lol:

BTW, my vote goes to Burt Gummer. :P

Meira-Bates

10-31-2003, 05:07 PM

Ok...I like the TMNT and the TCs, though I like TMNT more. I agree the TCs would most likely win...but a few factors here... I can't remember how, but the sword of omens was stolen once, yes? See where I'm going with this? The TC's powerfull weapons aren't ammune to someone sneaking them away...and who's good at sneaking? Ninja! Anyhoo...other than that, there's Snarf, like someone else mentioned.

However...I feel that in a fight with no things changed (meaning none of that who has this or who has that), just the original teams (meaning Splinter and the turtles against the characters TCs started with)...no matter where they were (unless it was some place that kept people from using super human abilities like the invisability ect) the thunder cats would be more likely to win, but the TMNT could still gain the upper hand somehow.

mikey3.0

11-01-2003, 01:04 AM

wait are we including metal head, casey, and fugitod new form also I bet the utoms could make a weapon to stop the sword of omens

heretic888

11-01-2003, 01:05 PM

Time to address the madness....

Well, let's be fair and say that if anyone besides, you know, the people who CREATED the franchise were involved with the writing of that story, there is most likely very little chance the TMNT would stand a chance against any deity or godlike figure because it quite frankly just doesn't work that way.

The fact remains that no matter what self-projected rationalizations or justifications you give, it still happened.

There is also very little chance that Lion-O could do ANYTHING to Supes.... but, still, it happened.

I mean, next someone will be trying to convince me that the TMNT, through their exceptional stealth and martial arts skills, could, together, beat Superman in a fight. Not Special Superman, either, Brother Tetsu! I mean SUPERMAN, as in, the guy who could see them even if they were hiding in shadow, the guy who wouldn't even NEED to see them because he could hear their hearts beating, the guy who could physically not be harmed by anything they did... and yet, I just know SOMEONE is gonna come in here and argue, in all seriousness, that the TMNT could beat Superman in a fight. Such is the case with people who make it a habit to avoid logic and common sense.

Actually, they could kill Superman if they really wanted. I hate to break this to you, but Superman is just as vulnerable to pressure point attacks as any other humanoid being. His "invulnerability" would be irrelevant because they aren't trying to pierce his skin or break his bones. He still has a circulatory and nervous system. He'd die from a massive hematoma as easily as a normal man.

In addition, he also has some very severe weaknesses. Any device disrupting solar energy would basically make him powerless. A sharp sai to his inner ear or nunchaku to his eye would severly damage him. One could even use special grappling maneuvers and so forth that actually use his own strength and momentum against him.

Not to mention, every other joe plus his grandma seems to find ways to get kryptonite in DC comics....

It's like I've said in the many, many "Batman vs Superman" debates I've been in over the years... first of all, whoever "won" would weigh entirely on whose book they were fighting in, and secondly, Superman would win, because Superman once took down the entire JLA **by himself**, and Batman had his precious Kryptonite with him and that's just all there is to it. There's fantasy, ("hey, wouldn't it be neat if Batman beat Superman in a fight?") and then there's reality (Superman would probably just melt the ground under Batman's feet into tar and create a vortex around Bats at super-speed, sucking out his oxygen and rendering him unconscious, from a safe distance where the Kryptonite wouldn't reach him... at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....).

Batman could feasibly beat Superman for the same reasons listed above that one of the TMNT could. Also, Batman has kryptonite so it really doesn't matter.

I'll address the rest a bit laterz.

heretic888

11-01-2003, 01:26 PM

And that said, the reality is that the way the characters are written and the abilities they possess, the TMNT as written by ANYONE besides Peter Laird would simply not look very good against the Thundercats in any kind of a physical altercation. Again, it's not a knock against the TMNT, it's just the way the characters are written.

I honestly believe that the 'Cats' magic puts them well over the edge. That mixed with the TMNT likely not being familiar with the 'Cats before battling them, and I think it'd be a tough-fought victory for the 'Cats, but a victory nonetheless.

And, I think the Turtles' superior skill, strength, stealth, intelligence, and (with the exception of Cheetara) speed would put them well over the edge. The fact is the TMNT are just better, smarter fighters. They would probably knock out and/or kill most of the 'Cats well within the first five minutes. I demonstrated in various scenarios how the 'Cats wouldn't stand a chance.

The (Mirage) Turtles have their own "magic" that hasn't been fully explored in the books yet (including their ability to put themselves in a mudra-induced trance when there's no oxygen around, and their ability to fight as easily blinded as with full sight).

As before, the Mirage Turtles would slaughter the 'Cats. Easily. The other TMNT versions would be tossups.

Just like Wolverine could never beat Lobo because Lobo is completely invulnerable (way moreso than Wolverine),

That is irrelevant, since Lobo could never do enough damage to Wolverine that would justify their difference in "invulnerability". Wolverine, however (with his adamantium anyway) could easily dismember Lobo. He may be immortal but its still hard to fight a guy when you're just a torso with a head.

IT'S ANYBODY'S FIGHT!!!!

No, the Mirage TMNT would slaughter them. They are deadlier, more experienced, better trained, more skilled warriors. Period.

However...I feel that in a fight with no things changed (meaning none of that who has this or who has that), just the original teams (meaning Splinter and the turtles against the characters TCs started with)...no matter where they were (unless it was some place that kept people from using super human abilities like the invisability ect) the thunder cats would be more likely to win, but the TMNT could still gain the upper hand somehow

Quite easily, actually.

Whenever the Turtles ever fight someone with "superior weapons", what do they always do?? Steal them from them, and use them against them. That is exactly what would happen to the 'Cats. This is because, as before, the Turtles are smarter, more experienced, and more skilled. Not to mention just flat out more deadly. I mean, Raph would probably snap Lion-O's neck with the first move. Game over.

Laterz.

Savanti Romero

11-01-2003, 02:40 PM

I watched TMNT when I was like four. Who the heck are the Thunder Cats? Don't take that question literally. But when I was a kid no one ever talked about the Thunder Cats. TMNT was the hottest topic availiable. In fact I had never even heard of the Thunder Cats untill a couple of years ago. (No, I'm not into any other cartoons or comics really.) I am an all the way "Ninja Turtles can kill anyone they wan't" unless that person is a related TMNT character. I am a TMNT fan to the end and thats why I joined this Forum. I can not stand the thought of losing my favorite heroes to some cats. To sum up, the TMNT would beat the Thunder Cats. :D

cqb101

11-01-2003, 03:19 PM

at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....)
Dude, don't scare me like that! That ain't funny... :lol:

BTW, my vote goes to Burt Gummer. :P

Bahahahahaha! Are you a Tremors fan? I sure am! I love the movies and love the show!

heretic888

11-01-2003, 07:56 PM

I am an all the way "Ninja Turtles can kill anyone they wan't" unless that person is a related TMNT character. I am a TMNT fan to the end and thats why I joined this Forum. I can not stand the thought of losing my favorite heroes to some cats. To sum up, the TMNT would beat the Thunder Cats.

No, there actually are several beings the TMNT could not defeat, such as Galactus and the like. The TMNT would also probably be unable to defeat the Justice League, Avengers, or the X-Men... but this is due more to sheer numbers than anything else. If the TMNT went one-for-one against those various groups, they'd probably stand a pretty good chance.

Besides, like I've said before, it all really comes down to the question of "how does it happen?". Whose turf are they on?? Whose weapons and/or vehicles are nearby?? What's the terrain like?? How much do they know about each other?? Who is the defender and who is the aggressor?? Does either have the element of surprise??

All of these factors would seriously impact the outcome of ANY of these hypothetical battles.

Kali

11-01-2003, 08:29 PM

Bahahahahaha! Are you a Tremors fan? I sure am! I love the movies and love the show!
Yes, very much so (though I don't get to watch the show very often, stupid work hours...) Still searching for the DVD's.

Mars-Chan

11-02-2003, 01:18 PM

Don't get me wrong...I love BOTH teams, but there is ONE member of the Thundercats team that I despised....Give ya a hint: He said "Snarf" all the time..... :lol:

Savanti Romero

11-02-2003, 04:17 PM