Godzilla vs. Kong [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

ProphetofGanja

06-16-2020, 04:54 PM

I'm finally hyped for this movie, haven't cared for the monsterverse at all since I absolutely hated Godzilla 2014, which was supposed to be a "realistic" take on Godzilla, but it was just a boring mess, I had free tickets to watch it a second time and passed. Shin Godzilla being amazing only solidified my dislike of 2014. Because of that I didn't care to watch the sequel.

I was also mad that the prequel to Jackson's Kong, with Skull Island was scrapped in favor of making Kong movie that could eventually crossover with Godzilla. Still bitter about that but I mean I'm glad that they decided to go all out with kaiju and a new Kong v Godzilla fight is also amazing that it's happening. I will be doing a re-watch of 2014 and watching Kong/KOTM for the first time to be ready for Kong v Godzilla.

I agree that Godzilla [2014] is too light on Godzilla himself and as a result suffers for it. At first, I liked Peter Jackson?s King Kong but looking back I feel it was waaay too bloated. That scene with the bugs? Man, that sh!t drags on. I like Godzilla: King of the Monsters a lot but I?ll be the first to admit that nearly any scene with people talking (which you may or may not care about when watching a kaiju flick) is awful. The military/scientist scenes are, to me at least, more tolerable than the family drama scenes with Millie Bobby Brown and Vera Farmiga.

It fvcking sucks that Godzilla vs. Kong is delayed AGAIN but I understand. If anything, they?ll have a lot more time to polish it up and I look forward to watching it on a big-ass screen.

Edit: sdp, let me know when you get around to watching Kong: Skull Island, I think it may actually be the strongest film of the MonsterVerse so far

TigerClaw

01-24-2021, 11:16 AM

Here's the Godzilla vs Kong Trailer.

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AquaParade

01-24-2021, 11:39 AM

All the money shots are of Zilla getting clowned on. Looks like they are leaning heavy into the goofy summer blockbuster vibe. I actually preferred the tone of something like Shin Godzilla, or even Godzilla 2014, but I can see the appeal of taking the material less seriously and just smashing the toys, I suppose.

Allio

01-24-2021, 11:50 AM

That’s always the thing about what people prefer when it comes to Kaiju stories. What people prefer is so varied it is hard to get a “general” film

ZariusTwo

01-24-2021, 11:52 AM

Will this film have different outcomes depending on what day or hour you see this in theatres?

TigerClaw

01-24-2021, 11:59 AM

The movie is going to be awesome. And the best part about it is that I can see it at home. :)

neatoman

01-24-2021, 01:04 PM

Is Godzilla smaller than before?

TigerClaw

01-24-2021, 01:10 PM

Is Godzilla smaller than before?
No still the same size. Its just that Kong is now as big as Godzilla. Because the first time we saw Kong was back in the 70s. So he's grown a lot bigger since then.

Leo656

01-24-2021, 05:42 PM

Eh, visually it looks fine to me. I haven't read anything about the plot so I have no idea what's leading to this one, story-wise. I'll definitely check it out but I might wait for the Blu-ray since I generally don't stream anything. Hopefully it'll be good. I've liked the series thus far even though it's definitely not how I would have "booked" a Godzilla franchise. But I openly admit that my Godzilla preferences lean more towards "He's a violent force of nature without a conscience" rather than "Benevolent protector of nature's balance", but that's just me and either works just as well depending on the execution.

sdp

01-24-2021, 06:03 PM

Edit: sdp, let me know when you get around to watching Kong: Skull Island, I think it may actually be the strongest film of the MonsterVerse so far

Haven't watched KOTM but it's definitely better than 2014 and overall not a bad King Kong movie I liked it, just not the Skull Island movie that was cancelled (https://miscrave.com/articles/skull-island-movie/).

Will this film have different outcomes depending on what day or hour you see this in theatres?

King Kong wins in the international version and Godzilla loses in the Japanese cut of the film

Andrew NDB

01-24-2021, 08:07 PM

Definitely can foresee how it's going to go. Godzilla goes crazy aggro on everything because some other kaiju (or some faction of humanity) is doing something to him like on a brain wave level... Kong shows up, they fight, it's indecisive and then they team up against whatever or whoever it is that's been making Godzilla go nutty.

Oh, and this new little girl that's buddies with Kong clearly is going to hold hands with the Stranger Things girl from the last movie at some point, to coincide with Kong and Godzilla becoming buddies by the end.

drgon78

01-25-2021, 06:08 AM

Looks great, though the trailer is very one sided on the fight aspect.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

01-25-2021, 09:39 AM

oldmanwinters

01-25-2021, 10:02 AM

If Vegas was taking odds on this film's bout, I'd say the "Mecha-Godzilla" reveal would be looking very lucrative.

AquaParade

01-25-2021, 10:46 AM

IMJ

01-25-2021, 11:03 AM

See I love the new Godzilla and Kong stuff. Love it. But I'm easy like that - it was the same with Indiana Jones. I was just so damn happy to see the guy running around on screen again that I never deeply cared that he hid in a nuke refrigerator. It wasn't good. But I didn't care.

Andrew NDB

01-25-2021, 03:22 PM

I preferred 2014 to KOTM. Maybe the action scenes are awesome in KOTM, I'm not sure. I couldn't get more than an hour into it because the human cast writing and acting was the poorest I've ever seen in a movie like this.

Yeah, the last Godzilla movie was deeply disappointing to me. 2014 was good, they just had to up the ratio of Godzilla time to human time by a small percentage. Skull Island was OK but honestly a little forgettable (as in I don't really remember it... maybe 1 scene with big spider things with long legs and big lizards giving Kong a hard time).

TigerClaw

01-25-2021, 03:39 PM

Yeah, the last Godzilla movie was deeply disappointing to me. 2014 was good, they just had to up the ratio of Godzilla time to human time by a small percentage. Skull Island was OK but honestly a little forgettable (as in I don't really remember it... maybe 1 scene with big spider things with long legs and big lizards giving Kong a hard time).
I prefer KOTM because it had more Godzilla then the 2014 one. I don't care how the humans were in KOTM as long as we had more Kaiju action. That's all that matters to me.

Allio

01-25-2021, 03:40 PM

Like I said before Kaiju films have a hard time for hitting a good film as often they can go from silly action flick or a psychological horror film.

TigerClaw

01-25-2021, 03:50 PM

Nobody sees a Godzilla movie for the good story or good writing. They see it for the Kaiju action.

It boggles the mind why people hated KOTM when I thought it was superior to the 2014 movie. The one complain people had with the 2014 movie was it had less Godzilla. So KOTM gave you more Godzilla. So they should be happy right? Nooo! They complain about the story and human characters more then the amount of Kaiju action that sequel offered. I hope for Godzilla vs Kong that it will satisfy everyone. Because all I care about is the Kaiju action. Sure there's a story in there somewhere. But those two are the main attractions.

Allio

01-25-2021, 04:03 PM

Nobody sees a Godzilla movie for the good story or good writing. They see it for the Kaiju action.

Shin Godzilla was light on Kaiju action and heavy on human drama.

It’s one of the highest grossing Godzilla films in Japan.

Andrew NDB

01-25-2021, 04:11 PM

It boggles the mind why people hated KOTM when I thought it was superior to the 2014 movie.

"I can't believe anyone didn't like that because I liked it."

You realize this is a ridiculous post, yes?

TigerClaw

01-25-2021, 04:14 PM

Shin Godzilla was light on Kaiju action and heavy on human drama.

It’s one of the highest grossing Godzilla films in Japan.
I see the movies for the Kaiju fights. Don't really care about any of this drama. The Kaijus are big enough of a distraction that you forget about everything else.

Kong even punches Godzilla in the Face. This movie is going to be crazy fun.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0a7d207cde50ab87db4dba32ac9b7ed8/tenor.gif?itemid=20091307

Allio

01-25-2021, 04:20 PM

That’s exactly my point. The spectrum of Kaiju films goes from one end of the spectrum to the other, this is especially true for GodZilla which has gone from Horror to complete children’s popcorn flick. Heisei, as much as I love it, lack in action as well and really comes down to beam-spamming which leads to quite a few that doesn’t even like that era.

TigerClaw

01-25-2021, 04:27 PM

I love John Campea's reaction to the Trailer. He loved it so much.

RL_RH4NqVPY

AquaParade

01-25-2021, 04:56 PM

Shin Godzilla is so damn cool. Easily my favorite Godzilla film, because it fills me with dread and existential terror, along with containing some gorgeous and powerful sequences.

I suppose Godzilla films are my favorite type of apocalypse film. It just seems like the most terrifying thing ever. I think were something like that to happen, it would feel biblical, even for non-religious types. It would be surreal and horrifying, like a bad dream come to life. That's what I like Godzilla films to capture.
But again, I can also see the potential in having awesome monster fights with the massive budget they have.

oldmanwinters

01-25-2021, 05:18 PM

I was actually hoping Godzilla would get killed off after his meltdown technique at the end of King of the Monsters. Obviously, he'd be revived in the next film (somehow) but I thought it would be a nice cliffhanger/mystery to lead into the Kong film.

Leo656

01-25-2021, 09:44 PM

"I can't believe anyone didn't like that because I liked it."

You realize this is a ridiculous post, yes?

It's also Every Single TC Post Ever. :trazz:

I suppose Godzilla films are my favorite type of apocalypse film. It just seems like the most terrifying thing ever. I think were something like that to happen, it would feel biblical, even for non-religious types. It would be surreal and horrifying, like a bad dream come to life. That's what I like Godzilla films to capture.
But again, I can also see the potential in having awesome monster fights with the massive budget they have.

We have very different opinions on the KOTM movie - I liked it - but this is more or less how I feel about the entire genre as well.

Sure, there can be "big dumb fun", but... I also want there to be the appropriate level of gravitas. There's pretty much nothing more horrific than the idea of That Kinda Sh*t actually happening in real life. And I pretty much watch every movie with the pretense of "This Is Real" and I don't want that immersion or illusion disrupted.

Giant monsters running wild and unstoppable would be insanely horrific if it ever happened. I prefer that such a powerful idea not be made the subject of fun, at least not too overtly. Like absolutely anything can be "silly" or "funny" if you present it that way, but something like this? It's only "silly" because the first 50 years' worth of movies had bad special effects, therefore the kaiju genre is something of a joke. But is that how the concept SHOULD be thought of or presented? I'd say nah, not at all. There's room to "have fun" with it but I don't see why it should be silly. The actual concept is f*cking terrifying.

Wildcat

01-25-2021, 11:05 PM

Looks cool. I have not seen KotM. Disappointed by 2014 but really liked Kong. I thought it was great.

ZariusTwo

01-26-2021, 03:47 AM

I love John Campea's reaction to the Trailer. He loved it so much.

RL_RH4NqVPY

Remind me why anyone cares what John Campea thinks?

Allio

01-26-2021, 04:51 AM

Same reason as why anyone cares what anyone thinks

ZariusTwo

01-27-2021, 06:13 AM

Same reason as why anyone cares what anyone thinks

The guy is just a shill for every blockbuster though. And he turns his nose at things he thinks won't make a lot of money, and has egg on his face when proven wrong.

AquaParade

01-27-2021, 06:39 AM

I like John Campea, but he has some annoying quirks if you watch him long enough. He does toot his own horn a lot, and can occasionally be very stubborn and play the semantics game when wrong (Snyder-Cut). Plus, he saw Justice Leage in theaters 5-6 times and tried, like a man chomping on a lemon, to smile about it and pretend it was pretty good. Of course everything is subjective, but I don't think he even believed himself in that case.
So yeah, he can be a bit frustrating, but overall I find him enjoyable to listen to and an okay guy.

ZariusTwo

01-27-2021, 11:26 AM

Skull Island anime spin-off coming to Netflix

https://deadline.com/2021/01/netflix-legendary-television-skull-island-tomb-raider-anime-series-1234681149/

Shark_Blade

03-28-2021, 11:32 AM

GodzillaVsKong has earned $70M in its box office opening weekend in China.
https://twitter.com/moviesmatrix/status/1376201753318850572?s=21

Seen it at the cinema yesterday. the monsters fights are really great, the humans stories not so much.

I thought the get ups for the mute little girl was too much, she could’ve dressed like a normal girl instead of like a tribal freak living amongst the modern people.

Shark_Blade

03-28-2021, 06:14 PM

#GodzillavsKong* earns $122M at the worldwide box office
The best start during the pandemic
https://twitter.com/culturecrave/status/1376227601421725697?s=21

Andrew NDB

03-28-2021, 07:20 PM

Seen it at the cinema yesterday. the monsters fights are really great, the humans stories not so much.

Godzilla: The monster fights were short and hard to decipher; the monster stories were simple but OK. The human stories were great, if a little bit "too much."

Godzilla: King of the Monsters: The monsters fights themselves were awesome; the monster stories were AWFUL. The human stories were AWFUL.

Not sure what to expect of King Kong vs. Godzilla. I don't care what ratio of human stuff there is this time as long as it's not distractingly terribly written as it was with the last one and it doesn't take unnecessarily away from the main event.

Powder

04-01-2021, 09:33 AM

Saw it, loved it. No spoilers, don't worry. Watched it with my SO, we've seen every single Godzilla movie to date & are huge fans, it definitely got our seal of approval.

Pros:
-Things get going right from the start/good pacing
-There are some endearing new characters
-Really solid action/fight scenes
-Visuals are flashy but diverse
-There's tons of references to past Toho Godzilla/Kong movies that aren't on the nose but actually pretty deep cuts
-Scenes take place across many unique & interesting settings, varying also between night/day, weather conditions
-The kaiju are compelling when they display emotion, & fortunately do so without being over the top/cartoony
-As far as the fate of certain conflicts go, things are clear cut

Cons:
-One character's motivations don't quite make sense
-While we see some new things pertaining to Titan lore, it poses more questions than answers
-Godzilla is very under-utilized, it's pretty much a King Kong movie that features The Big G (I actually liked that, myself, having adored Skull Island, but they don't quite market it that way, so you may be disappointed)
-None of the newly established Titans from the end of KOTM are shown, mentioned, or followed up on in any way

On a whole, it delivers. You may want a few more Godzilla scenes out of it, but it should otherwise give you what you want. It's thoroughly entertaining, & respectful/true to the property. Closes out the set of 4 films very well, I think. I've enjoyed them all a lot, I'd love more, but it is my understanding that Toho couldn't proceed with their plans for a new Japanese reboot series until this one was capped, so let's go ahead & get to that. Nobody does Godzilla better than his parents. I look forward to whatever's next.

Fun fact, James Rolfe, AKA the Angry Video Game Nerd, was asked to make a cameo, but had to turn it down as his daughter was about to be born. Too bad, would've been funny to see him.

oldmanwinters

04-01-2021, 11:25 AM

Fun fact, James Rolfe, AKA the Angry Video Game Nerd, was asked to make a cameo, but had to turn it down as his daughter was about to be born. Too bad, would've been funny to see him.

I'd love to know what the context of the cameo would have been! :tlol:

drgon78

04-01-2021, 01:21 PM

I just got back from the seeing the movie in theaters. I really enjoyed it, hope it does well, and that we get more movies.

Andrew NDB

04-01-2021, 01:23 PM

I just got back from the seeing the movie in theaters. I really enjoyed it, hope it does well, and that we get more movies.

This was kind of the last one that was guaranteed. Sort of like Snyder's "Justice League" squeaked by even though BvS critical and financials were coming in simultaneously.

Either this one does gangbusters (though does anything even need to in this forced COVID reality?) or that's it.

oldmanwinters

04-01-2021, 02:14 PM

I had no idea Playmates had the toy license for this film:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNIhA1pAZ_f/

Powder

04-01-2021, 10:39 PM

I'd love to know what the context of the cameo would have been! :tlol:

I would hope it'd be a "What were they thinking?!" moment.

Allio

04-02-2021, 12:13 AM

If we ever do get another Godzilla film I do hope we get a Godzilla Battle royale. Have Godzilla, Biollante, Space Godzilla and Zilla (originally I wanted Mecha Godzilla for this, but for obvious reasons a change.)

AquaParade

04-02-2021, 08:57 AM

Didn't enjoy this. I couldn't invest in the action for some reason. They tried to be creative with the battles, but it must be either the cinemtography, the computer animation, or the lack of investment on the part of the narrative, but I just felt like I was trying to stay focused on a cartoon.
Godzilla 2014 is my favorite of the "Monster-Verse" movies and Shin Godzilla blows em all out of the water.

Slade

04-02-2021, 09:10 AM

Shin Godzilla blows em all out of the water.

I feel like I need to watch this again or something, because I know people praise the hell out of it, but I thought it was terribly boring.

AquaParade

04-02-2021, 09:13 AM

I feel like I need to watch this again or something, because I know people praise the hell out of it, but I thought it was terribly boring.

I could see how it'd come across as boring to some. I get invested in the sense of awe and terror that Godzilla brings in this film. I get lost in imagining what it would actually feel like to be invaded by a monster and the film serves enough atmosphere to fuel that for me.

Andrew NDB

04-02-2021, 06:03 PM

Well this is positive. I went to book tickets for Godzilla vs. Kong tonight and I just took the last 2 seats available.

Yes, the theaters are in forced 25% capacity, but it's still positive to see.

TigerClaw

04-02-2021, 06:23 PM

I saw it on HBO Max today. I really enjoyed it, The critics mostly complain about the human characters, But nobody cares about that when its all about the monster fights.

I would love to go back to the theaters. Unfortunately AMC aren't doing the matinees and are only showing movies from 4pm or later. I normally go around noon time on a weekend.

Last Ronin

04-02-2021, 11:45 PM

Saw it in theatre..... It was alright. But too many things wrong with it. Aside from being a turtle fan I'm also a Godzilla nerd. The movie focused too much on Kong and his adventures rather than Godzilla, which would be fine but it's all over the place. The fights were very good but to say people are there just for the monsters is not true at all. People forget that character development is interwined with the kaijus. It lets the movie breathe if done well you can't just have kaiju just up and brawl for an hour and a half. In between the fights you're watching humans and if they suck then it becomes dull and not entertaining.

Andrew NDB

04-03-2021, 12:20 AM

Didn't like it. The human stuff wasn't as dumb as King of the Monsters but it was still pretty dumb... and the tech stuff was even dumber. The actual Kong vs. Godzilla fight(s) wasn't very conclusive or satisfying.

Allio

04-03-2021, 01:05 AM

I mean as far as tech goes in Tokusatsu, it’s fine. It’s a sci-fi fantasy tech. Allow me to introduce you to someone with a space suit that is literally powered by the power of friendship, as in once he lost friendship he actually lost his powers.

I mean the tech here ain’t even the dumbest thing I’ve seen in a Godzilla film. It’s pretty tame.

Andrew NDB

04-03-2021, 01:12 AM

I mean as far as tech goes in Tokusatsu, it’s fine.

I don't know what that is. But while I know they couldn't fully put the genie back in the bottle after "King of the Monsters," I much preferred the more grounded feel to the 2014 movie.

Allio

04-03-2021, 01:20 AM

Right, casual (kidding). Forgot for a moment.

It’s like TMNT, once they go off world, it’s hard to come back. It’s like a horror film in that regard.

Basically after Mothra, Rodan and Godzilla all teamed up the first time to fight Ghidorah back in 64 and the three could actually hold conversations with one another, the chicken already left the coop.

Honestly if you like Mirage TMNT there is a lot of Toku stuff up your ally.

Though I get what you are saying. I binged the three films this week leading to GVK and there was a certain gravitas to Godzilla’14. It felt like you were witnessing Gods in action.

Did you ever watch Shin Godzilla? What did you think?

Leo656

04-03-2021, 07:35 PM

Finally saw it. It's okay, but I didn't like it as much as I'd hoped to. The action/fight scenes are what people are paying to see and those parts deliver, but I feel like this one has all the worst parts of the other MonsterVerse movies, done worse.

To be clear, I'm well aware of all the complaints about the other films in the series, namely that the human parts are boring/not interesting and the plots are practically incomprehensible. I generally don't agree, but I very much do agree with this one. Half of the characters had NO reason whatsoever to be there, others that have some intrigue and promise don't get a lot to do, and after about 40 minutes I more or less gave up trying to follow the plot. It's one of those "We need to get 40 pages of exposition out in the first half hour, so everybody talks really fast and scenes just jump around with no flow or reason" kind of movies. The other films were much easier to follow, plot-wise, but this one was a bit of a mess.

The dialog was wall-to-wall terrible. Millie Bobby Brown is arguably the biggest "name" in the movie and gets literally nothing to do except an exposition dump in Act I, some "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND GODZILLA" pouting in Act II, and then generic Run & Scream stuff in Act III. The fat kid who was her sidekick got a lot more to do and he was TERRIBLE, easily the worst part of the movie by far.

I disagree that just about any of the non-monster stuff was better than KOTM. I think KOTM was much better balanced and the "human" parts less confusing and more interesting. This one had me feeling kind of like I did when I watched "Transformers 2", where everything that was a giant CGI fight was awesome, and everything else was pretty excruciating. Again, I'm aware that people say "That's what ALL of these movies are like," but I really don't agree. I liked the others a lot more than I liked this one.

I didn't dislike it, but I definitely think it needed a lot of work. I'll buy the disc since I want to own all the movies, but I honestly think this was technically the "worst" of this specific franchise. The monster fights are great but I don't know if the rest of the movie is worth watching just for that, I think most people would be fine just watching those scenes on YouTube.

Ah well. :ohwell:

oldmanwinters

04-03-2021, 07:56 PM

NinjaPug

04-03-2021, 09:07 PM

They must’ve changed what they were going to do with some of the humans. I mean surely you don’t bring Lance Reddick in for only one line (maybe he had two but I only remember the one). And what exactly was the point of bringing the Friday Night Lights guy back? To talk on the phone twice with Eleven?

For me it’s Skull Island > Godzilla > GvK > GKotM

Anyone know if they have plans for more movies?

Andrew NDB

04-03-2021, 11:15 PM

Anyone know if they have plans for more movies?

They do not. Kong vs. Godzilla only barely squeaked by in getting made because it was already in production even as KOTM was hitting theaters. I bet if they'd waited to see the smoke settle from that, Kong vs. Godzilla wouldn't have ever gotten made, as KOTM either barely broke even or lost money. Godzilla (2014) is the only one that made money domestically, which even Skull Island didn't... but Skull Island got HUGE box office overseas, even more than Godzilla (which seems about right to me... Godzilla (2014) and Skull Island are the only good ones). They've been hemorrhaging ever since.

Now? We'll see if the HBO Max thing is a blessing or a curse for it, because by box office alone it's sure to do far worse than KOTM just because of the pandemic/people scared to drop dead from COVID in the theaters. I suspect this will be the end, though. They're throwing 150-170 million dollar budgets at these and just not getting the money back.

FrederikWolferson

04-04-2021, 12:19 AM

Fun movie. Thou once again,the human characters are pretty pointless. Why is coach Taylor even here?

Iroh

04-04-2021, 12:34 AM

The movie was kind of "meh" to me. The CGI was on point though. Too much blabbering. If Mothra Leo was in the movie, it would've been hilarious. I'm not much of a fan but it was worth a watch. ;)

Leo656

04-04-2021, 01:37 AM

Like, the actual plot being such a mess was what really killed me. Some people swear "Nobody watches these movies for the plot," but that's ridiculous. I very much like to understand what's going on and why. Too many characters, too many subplots, too much jumping between without adequate explanation. Yes, I care about the kaiju fights, but without a good framework it may as well be a cartoon.

Like, just for example, why again did they need to go inside the Hollow Earth with Kong if he was just gonna end up fighting Godzilla in Hong Kong? "Something something maybe something there can help fight Godzilla" was all I got from it. And sure, he found the axe, but neither Kong nor the scientists knew that would be there - or that anything would be there, really - and the entire plan seemed incredibly risky anyway. The entire middle act seemed like filler, like "Stuff is happening Because Plot and Runtime Demand It"... but it didn't feel like it made much sense or had much reason to happen. It all looked great, but I swear, I couldn't remember why anyone was even doing anything, by that point.

I agree that the sci-fi stuff felt a bit too over-the-top, compared to how grounded the solo Kong and Godzilla films were. I mean between the Magical Flying Machines that can withstand super-intense gravity pressure, and the outfits the mission scientists wore that looked like something out of Singer's X-Men films, it all just felt VERY disconnected from the earlier films and almost like something out of a super-hero movie. I guess that if you're gonna pop the cork on MechaGodzilla, you really have to Go Big, but... I mean, even that... like, a giant MechaGodzilla should probably be the most "fantastic" and unbelievable thing in the movie, right? But we've already established the Magic Flying Machines that can survive the pressures of the planet's core, so... Yeah, the giant mech dinosaur is no longer as amazing as he should be. AND he should have been in the movie more. There's definitely a few good "money shots" of MechaGodzilla, but by the time he shows up the movie's almost over and while the scenes he's in are good, they're too late and too short. I felt like he just showed up and all of a sudden he's scrap metal. They could have introduced MechaGodzilla in Act I and it would've been a much more exciting movie, frankly. I'm sure they could have found a way.

Also, why did it feel like Serizawa's kid should've been a much bigger deal? Like, there's some unspoken irony or something about his Dad being Godzilla's "pal" and now he's piloting MechaGodzilla with his mind to help the Evil Scientists... but they don't do anything with it, and at the end he's dead, I guess? Like, we don't see him again after MechaGodzilla fights off his control, and he looked pretty dead after getting electrocuted. I could believe that character had an entirely different name in the original shoot, and then someone was like, "We should make him Serizawa's kid!" and then just added that one line of dialog in post. Because that could have been very interesting, and in the end it's a lot of Nothing.

I couldn't believe that they stopped MechaGodzilla by pouring whiskey on the control console. That was like something out of a bad cartoon. I was like "That seriously has to be a setup for something, that CAN'T be how they 'win', that would be ridiculous"... except it was legit. You could tell that they really just gave up, by that point. The writers were very clearly in "This movie needs to end" mode.

Like, I really, REALLY wanted to like this one, but the more I'm thinking about it the less I can defend it. I liked all the other ones. KOTM gets a ton of hate but I don't really see the problems with that one. THIS one, though, I definitely see a lot of problems with. And it really feels like the people making it listened to entirely the wrong people after the last couple. There's always a ton of people who say loudly and often, "Nobody watches these movies for Characters and Plot, they just wanna see the CGI monster fights." And y'know, I get why people would say that, but I don't think that's true. I think those things DO matter, and you can tell when they're bad, and they can drag the entire experience down. This movie just SCREAMS that it was written by people who didn't care one bit about Characters and Plot... because "Nobody else cares, either". The characters do nothing except give exposition and make bad jokes, and the "plot" in between those monster fights makes little to no sense at all. I do plan to watch it again, but I can't believe that a big part of that was because I'm hoping to understand it better the second time, and not because I was so "Wow'ed" that I actually want to watch it again.

They basically went full-spectacle, "Nothing matters but the CGI goodies". Like a Transformers movie. That's what it felt like to me. And that's pretty heartbreaking, because those movies are awful and the others in this series were a LOT better than this. The "money shots" are there, but I wish it were more of a "real" movie. You could just whittle this one down to a 20-minute video of the fight scenes and you wouldn't miss a damn thing.

It didn't feel "epic" like it should have. I don't know if it was the lousy dialog, the bad "comedy", the muddled plot, or a combination of all those things. It just should have felt like a much bigger deal. Instead it felt... obligatory. Like very little care or heart went into it. It feels very much like "product". The others felt like Real Movies, even KOTM.

I sound pretty harsh, I know. I mean, I don't think it's actually "bad", but... parts of it are, for sure. And it should have been a LOT better.

Andrew NDB

04-04-2021, 02:26 AM

Like, just for example, why again did they need to go inside the Hollow Earth with Kong if he was just gonna end up fighting Godzilla in Hong Kong?

That's a good question. Why even bother?

And little things, things like killing off the entire population of Skull Island (minus the little girl) "just because"? Why? I guess to make Kong OK to go be a king somewhere else? Apparently in this Hollow Earth that appears to be completely uninhabited?

"Something something maybe something there can help fight Godzilla" was all I got from it. And sure, he found the axe, but neither Kong nor the scientists knew that would be there - or that anything would be there, really - and the entire plan seemed incredibly risky anyway. The entire middle act seemed like filler, like "Stuff is happening Because Plot and Runtime Demand It"... but it didn't feel like it made much sense or had much reason to happen. It all looked great, but I swear, I couldn't remember why anyone was even doing anything, by that point.

Me neither.

I agree that the sci-fi stuff felt a bit too over-the-top, compared to how grounded the solo Kong and Godzilla films were. I mean between the Magical Flying Machines that can withstand super-intense gravity pressure, and the outfits the mission scientists wore that looked like something out of Singer's X-Men films, it all just felt VERY disconnected from the earlier films and almost like something out of a super-hero movie.

KOTM gets a ton of hate but I don't really see the problems with that one.

The stuff you bring up here about the sci-fi stuff being over-the-top is a big part of what made KOTM feel so disconnected from the first Godzilla movie and Skull Island. That and them giving up on even trying at all with the human stuff, which was truly terrible in KOTM.

Godzilla (2014) we had all kinds of relatable stuff with father/son stuff, "what if a giant monster really did invade the world tomorrow?" and real world military tech and maneuvers. Skull Island, we had a 70s period piece with fun characters fleshed out just enough that we cared about them when they go under the knife.

KOTM? Suddenly the world has Independence Day: Resurgence-level tech, helicarrier-type stuff with Iron Man reactors, and everything revolves around a little girl who... wants to destroy the world (and can, because contrivances), for dumb reasons? Godzillla vs. Kong just continues that stuff.

Leo656

04-04-2021, 03:09 AM

Well, I hear that, but I didn't think it was quite as bad in KOTM as it was here, either the super-advanced tech or the human character stuff.

Like I didn't think the human character stuff in KOTM was GREAT, mind you, but it was serviceable. This movie was like... every time anyone said anything, I wanted them to stop immediately. The script is SO BAD, especially the dialog. When Millie's character said that line about "Godzilla gave us peace; YOU provoked him into WAR!", it's not supposed to be funny but I had to try very hard not to laugh. Total cringe, at what is supposed to be an "emotional" moment. Like, I've heard that she's supposedly a decent actress, but I haven't seen her in much and her line delivery in this movie was truly, truly awful. Like "Natalie Portman in Star Wars (pick any)" levels of Awful. And again, as the biggest "name" in the cast, I'm shocked that she got so little to do in this. She's literally only in it because she signed a two-picture deal, not for any plot-reasons. Her character adds nothing, does nothing, and is of completely zero consequence. She's even less important than Whatsername, the rich scientist/boss lady who looks like Selena Gomez with bigger cans, who's only there to be a bitch and then die. SO many characters in this movie serve no purpose at all. And given how low the "body count" is for a kaiju movie, having so much deadweight in the cast is pointless if more of them aren't gonna get killed off. And again, why even bother with Serizawa Jr. if we don't even get to know him as a character? He's only there to link with MechaGodzilla, and then die. He may as well be named Charlie f*cking Chan, for all the importance of being Serizawa's kid impacted the plot of the goddamn movie.

So yeah, I will concede that the human character stuff in KOTM is by no means "great"... but I would argue that it was still WAY better than it was in this movie. The human stuff in this one is SO bad that I almost wish they really did just make a 90-minute CGI slugfest movie instead. THAT movie would be considerably less annoying than This One.

As for the advanced tech stuff... again, not "great" in KOTM but still not as awful as here. I found it more believable in KOTM, not to mention that while I haven't seen all or even most of the Japanese films, that level of Fantasy Tech is so prevalent in those films that I could more or less just roll with it, seeing as how that movie and this movie are clearly trying to lean more into the vein of those types of films in some ways. Like, it felt like if the timeline starts in the 1970s and the various corporations and governments who knew about Kong and the possibility of other kaiju had time to surreptitiously prepare and develop certain things... some of it felt much more plausible than the Fantasy Tech in this movie did. The gravity cars bit really felt like suddenly I was watching an X-Men movie; the costumes the "scientists" wore didn't do much to help that.

I do agree that these were flaws that existed in KOTM; but I don't agree that KOTM did worse with those elements. I think the way they were played with in this movie was much, much worse.

This movie feels very, very... perfunctory.

If you told me that they started assembling the project with the CGI monster fight scenes, and then took whatever time and money they had left over to slap together something resembling a "narrative" so they could puff it into something feature film-length... I would absolutely believe you.

Andrew NDB

04-04-2021, 03:39 AM

I do agree that these were flaws that existed in KOTM; but I don't agree that KOTM did worse with those elements. I think the way they were played with in this movie was much, much worse.

Maybe you're right. KOTM isn't super fresh in my mind atm... I just know that beyond anything else I went into KOTM super excited, particularly after Godzilla (2014) and Skull Island, and leaving the movie feeling like just about any enthusiasm I had for the entire "MonsterVerse" had been crushed to death. What was semi-realistic and scary and "Wow!" had been changed into silly, corny, outlandish and dumb. Which I guess is what the big fans of the old Toho stuff expect anyway, but I thought they were really trying for something different here.

Is Godzilla vs. Kong more of the same? Yeah, for sure. Is it worse? Mmm... I'm not sure. It might be. I guess the key difference in the human stuff in Godzilla vs. Kong as opposed to the human stuff in KOTM is that while the human stuff in Godzilla vs. Kong wasn't much of anything at all (when in Godzilla (2014) and Skull Island, they did it very well), it didn't actively stupify and annoy the hell out of me as it did in KOTM. So maybe, human stuff... written really, really badly in KOTM with some truly bizarre choices, and in Godzilla vs. Kong... just barely written at all?

Though human stuff aside, I remember there was at least a couple of moments with Mothra in KOTM that made me "feel" something. Godzilla vs. Kong didn't even have that.

I think they should've just had Kong sacrifice himself to stop Mechagodzilla in a big and meaningful gesture. That might have sold it for me. They're never going to do Skull Island 2 anyway, so why not? As is, it's just this isolated incident built around a nonsense plot.

Leo656

04-04-2021, 04:19 AM

I mean, it's been a while since I watched KOTM again - probably soon, as my wife wants to do a series run - but I definitely don't recall being so flat-out pissed off every time the characters spoke, nor as completely baffled as to what the f*ck was actually happening plot-wise, as I was while watching this one.

There is no way that movie had worse dialog or characters quite as paper-thin as THIS one. That's not even possible. This is literally one of the worst-scripted movies I think I've ever seen. The stuff coming out of these people's mouths is f*cking ASS. And I'm almost positive KOTM at least did more with its characters, whereas here they ONLY exist to give exposition and occasionally scream in fear.

Also, the stakes felt a lot bigger in KOTM. There was no real sense of urgency, here. Yeah, you see MechaGodzilla knock over a city, but it all happens so fast - and he's done away with so quickly and easily - that you don't FEEL the stakes. Ghidorah felt like a real world-ender of a threat. MechaGodzilla felt like, "We need to show that Kong and Godzilla are friends now, and also, we're running ten minutes short. So HERE, MechaGodzilla." He LOOKED great, though, I just felt that overall it was a huge step back from KOTM in just about every way.

There was a definite tonal shift from the more grounded reality of Godzilla and Skull Island starting with KOTM, yeah, for sure. It didn't bother me as much as some folks, since I fully expected them to lean into the more "Japanese", over-the-top type of stuff going forward. Perhaps it could have been done more delicately, and I agree that if it were my choice I wouldn't have gone QUITE so hard and so fast into that territory. But I'd still argue that it's all handled better in KOTM than this one. Sure, this one is only carrying on those creative choices, but this one by comparison just feels very very lazy and like it was made with very little care.

Aside from the visuals and music, which were admittedly quite impressive.

Andrew NDB

04-04-2021, 05:11 AM

There was a definite tonal shift from the more grounded reality of Godzilla and Skull Island starting with KOTM, yeah, for sure. It didn't bother me as much as some folks, since I fully expected them to lean into the more "Japanese", over-the-top type of stuff going forward.

Well, the box office tells the tale. Godzilla did pretty great, even despite its huge budget. Skull Island didn't do as well domestically but still pretty good, and somehow did gangbusters everywhere else. KOTM sunk the ship, and Godzilla vs. Kong is just this odd duck in a mid-pandemic world that already probably would have done bad but now? Now maybe HBO Max subscriptions can = revenue enough to make it not fail? I have no idea. Maybe. Godzilla vs. Kong turned out to be way, way cooler on paper (as is, "Yes! I subscribe, to be able to see this movie") than it was in reality.

Leo656

04-04-2021, 05:17 AM

Andrew NDB

04-04-2021, 05:21 AM

The reviews seem kinder for this movie than for KOTM, oddly. That's kinda weird.

I don't like to put the Snyder Cut in this category as well (and I don't, personally)... but really. If you're a critic, and there isn't movies for like a year+... you might suddenly not be so apt to crap all over everything as you might have done, even if it deserved it, when you suddenly get to justify your job again. Alternately, if you're a critic that means you love movies (well, that's what it's supposed to mean, even if it's movies that don't align with your current weirdo 2021 identity politics). And there wasn't any "big" ones for a good while. Now there's one. Do you stomp it out even if its brain dead like you did before, or do you maybe... be a little more forgiving? I think they're being a little more forgiving. Unfairly so, in this case, but it computes. And maybe it's a rare case of "good for the goose, is ___" in this way. Maybe. For me? The one-two punch of KOTM and GvK cements that this whole things needs to die, for me.

#1, critics are happy to see more big movies again. #2, they NEED there to be more, so stomping the first one to come out in a year is counter-productive to, y'know, their livelihood.

Leo656

04-04-2021, 05:39 AM

Kinda makes sense.

On the "just a fan" side of things, I'm seeing a lot of gushing, too. Which I really don't get. I don't even like/get the whole "It's JUST a kaiju movie, man! Don't expect Characters and Plot to not suck ass!" thing. Like, why not? Other movies in this vein have done it fairly well. "Pacific Rim" was good. "Godzilla" and "Skull island" were very balanced. I even liked KOTM, whereas many people didn't. So it's not like I'm a "hater" or anything. I've been a pretty "easy lay" so far with these movies, generally-speaking.

I don't like or buy the "Plot and Characters Obviously suck in these movies, that's not what matters!" argument/defense. Even if that WERE true - which it isn't; again, other movies HAVE done it well - it doesn't excuse or explain just how bad the script for THIS movie is. I don't expect Shakespeare from this sort of thing but I at least expect not to have my intelligence insulted by sitting through heaps and mounds of some of the worst dialog ever recorded. This movie would play better as a silent film. Because everyone in it except the deaf girl and her Scientist Mom is an insufferable moron.

There's just this very strong kneejerk reaction/defense people are putting out with this movie, implying or flat-out stating that "If you don't like it, you over-think and expect too much." And I really, REALLY don't think that's fair. My "expectations" were simply from the fact that we've already had three movies in a row which - I feel - did a much better job with the material, and that by comparison this one, specifically, sh*t the bed in a lot of ways. I'm not "over-thinking" anything; it's a bad script, poorly-acted. That isn't MY goddamn fault, y'know? :lol:

I mean I get why people would WANT to like it; I know I certainly wanted, and even very sincerely expected to like it a LOT more than I did. But I can't ignore the fact that even by "Just a kaiju movie" standards, that movie had a BAD script.

I guess we really are pretty starved for content right now, and that maybe makes people more forgiving. Wish I could be, but I just can't in this case.

Andrew NDB

04-04-2021, 05:48 AM

I'm definitely not of the camp that parrots stuff like, "WHO CARES about the human stuff? I'm here for the monster fighting! Why would you care about the human stuff??" Because that's stupid, and for very easy reasoning.

Godzilla (2014) is the only time that kind of thought actually had even a sliver of merit, because I do agree the pendulum could have swung maybe 15% more towards the monster stuff and even therein in that, more towards actually decipherable on-screen monster stuff (and not, you know, BayFormers 1 stuff where it's super close shots, rapid cutting, that sort of thing). The thing is, the human stuff was actually REALLY GOOD in that. They actually cared about it. They hired Bryan F***ing Cranston and put him in every trailer. And he did great.

But yeah. The reality is we're sitting in a theater, or at home, or wherever, watching a 2 hour movie (whether it's KOTM, GvK, etc.) where the actual on-screen monster-vs.-monster footage is like 25% of the movie. The idea that we're just supposed to check out, check our phone, go to the bathroom, take a nap, whatever, in between the monster stuff (you know, the other 75% of the movie) is ridiculous and speaks more of you than of the movie you're talking about. Of these people. Though again, I understand a lot of these people are people who are coming from a place of love from the old Toho movies, so I'm sure for them they already have a head canon of all of those, so who cares about what's in these (as in, it won't replace what's already in your head about "the real Godzilla saga"). Just tune in for the CGI fights, because you already saw your Godzilla/monster marathon in the Toho movies and this is just an encore. Basically.

The human stuff has to be good or the movie isn't. Straight up. Or you're an old Godzilla fan who just doesn't care.

THAT SAID... something like an "Alien vs. Predator" movie -- a SILENT movie -- where it is strictly from the perspective of a Predator or some Predators with absolutely no humans anywhere? Just following one/them, for a movie, as they infiltrate an Alien hive or something. National Geographic style. Maybe there'd be something to that, or a movie like that. I'd love to see that experiment happen. Could be like "Apocalypto." I don't know if it'd work for something like a Kong/Godzilla movie because that tends to involve a lot of interaction with human cities, but maybe a straight-up Hollow Earth movie (which I'm guessing was the hope of where things would go post-KOTM before hope evaporated)?

AquaParade

04-04-2021, 10:17 AM

The reviews seem kinder for this movie than for KOTM, oddly. That's kinda weird. Because in no way is This One better than Than One.

I don't know if critics are more forgiving right now or just so bored they'll fawn over anything. Could be the latter; I've noticed peoples' scores trending upwards this past few months, just in general.

Both movies are practically the same in my eyes and there is more going on with these reviews than one might think, for sure.

The whole movie industry critic/pundit/YouTube crowd is so damn bored with a lack of content that they are anxious for anything to fawn over. Outlets need theaters to make money right now or their line of work will become much less relevant. Everyone in the industry wants this movie to succeed for one reason or another.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, because this was the worst movie I've seen in a few years. And if it weren't for the all powerful notion of subjectivity, I'd be pretty pissed at all those reviews for convincing me to see this dredge.

IMJ

04-04-2021, 11:24 AM

Last Ronin

04-04-2021, 09:51 PM

Saw it last night. Loved it, thought it was great. Not a perfect movie by any means, but let's face it - it was Kong's movie with sequel follow-up from Godzilla's King of the Monsters plot.

It was fine. It was fun. Loved how it wrapped up. I mean it's ridiculous at every level, but it was super fun and testosterone laden. It was great.

Oh yeah, my testosterone levels went up the roof, my balls dropped and I grew a stache then later got home by swinging by the trees and climbing my apartment building and thumping my chest then I grabbed a can of spray and a lighter and started beam spamming into the air.

And I swear the woman that were there came out pregnant, I just know it.

IMJ

04-05-2021, 09:39 AM

:o
:lol::lol::lol::lol:.OMG man -shakes head- :lol:

Powder

04-05-2021, 09:48 AM

Allio

04-05-2021, 10:05 AM

As I mentioned before Kaiju can be very versatile, for better or worse. A Kaiju movie can be great for the monster fights, can be great for the human drama (Evangelion for example), some can even be good about mixing human characters and the giant monster fights (Ultraman), or a Kaiju movie works as a horror movie by showing little of the giant monster (Cloverfield.) but the thing is many people have different wants and likes about Kaiju stories what person A loves about one thing, person B hates.

One of my personal favorite Kaiju story right now is Kaiju Girl Caramelise, which is a shout-out series about a girl where when she gets flustered she turns into a Kaiju. Which that series is definitely different from a series called Haikaiju where there is a sense of Escalation going from monsters of Xenomorphs to Godzilla level monsters and even Ultraman non-dimensional monsters.

Clearly human drama really works depending on their connection with the Kaiju (with Evangelion and Ultraman having the humans in the fight) which I find is why Samuel L Jackson’s character in Skull Island and Jia in GVK being the most memorable human characters in these films and why I feel like Godzilla’14 would have worked better with Bryan Cranston’s character living because of his connection with the mutos

If we are going by movie

Godzilla’14- mainly had one major character just surrounded by a bunch of side characters. The scale in this film makes the movie feel smaller and more personal and when Godzilla and bathe Mutos appear it felt like watching Gods. It just sucks that the main character was less compelling than his father.

Skull island- the largest cast, but everyone is kind of one note. But that isn’t a bad thing here. I can’t name but since everyone was their own little cliche (soldier with ptsd, the caring father, the scientist, the crazy guy, the @$$ with a heart) I couldn’t remember their name but I can remember their characters. Sadly they were just a window dressing. I’m reminded of Pacific Rim where characters there were pretty one-note, but their jobs of being in the actual fight is what bumps them up.

King of the Monster - cast is large... but most of everyone feels like props for the fights. The only characters that work is the family, but only the mother has really anything that works with the movie with her redemption tied to ghidorah’s death.

Godzilla vs Kong - only really half the cast works here with Team Kong having any weight as their group fully interacts with King Kong. Team Godzilla feels pointless as they are all only there as they needed a way to reveal Aphex’s group.

Godzilla > GVK > skull island > KoTM

Of course not everyone is going to agree with me, but again, that’s what makes Kaiju stories divisive.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 12:26 PM

The complaints most of you have lead me to believe none of you like or probably bothered watching the majority of Toho's Godzilla movies.

Doesn't sound like anyone else did, either. As soon as the movies went "full Toho" beginning with KOTM, they stopped making any money.

Allio

04-05-2021, 01:09 PM

Well that is the difference between western and eastern audience. It’s like comparing western to eastern horror movies.

It’s like I get the idea of Power Rangers, but I would never want to lose what makes shows like Kamen Rider and Ultraman so good to a “western version”

sdp

04-05-2021, 01:11 PM

I thought Godzilla 2014 was great (http://miscrave.com/articles/godzilla-2014/) the first time I watched it but the second time I watched it I just didn't care for it. It's ok but I actually think Godzilla 1998 is actually better (https://miscrave.com/articles/godzilla-1998-rocks/). Frankly Toho did "realistic" godzilla far better than anyone with Shin Godzilla unlike 2014 which was just boring. It's good they went the cheese route for the monsterverse since they had already lost the realistic approach with a boring film.

Kong Skull Island is pretty good, haven't caught KOTM or GvK yet but as long as they don't take themselves too seriously it'll be fine. the route Kong took seemed better for this universe.

But apparently the movie is doing well? Will they continue the monsterverse?

Allio

04-05-2021, 01:20 PM

That’s all going to depend on Toho.

Toho wants to do their own live action films again in a series of movies called “The World of Godzilla” how like the films first were where Rodan and Mothra were their own films before becoming part of Godzilla’s film set.

Though I do hope that Toho and Legendary will come to an agreement to do both. I feel like Toho would be insane to lose a deal where they make so much money on the legendary films by doing nothing, as opposed to doing their own film and they would be limited on the profit they make.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 01:45 PM

The complaints most of you have lead me to believe none of you like or probably bothered watching the majority of Toho's Godzilla movies. Some of the criticism is valid, sure, & I'm not saying you shouldn't expect "better", either, but just about everything was par the course for this property. This & KOTM both were like love letters to the Heisei/Showa era Godzilla films. Same patterns, pacing, acceleration of absurdity/humor, various plots, expendable characters, exposition dumps, etc. Yeah, the American development teams could have used this opportunity to "right some wrongs" if you wanna look at it that way, but I'm glad that they just put the western spin on tradition rather than taking things too seriously or making us over-invest in the human casts.

I haven't seen all or even most, but I know for a fact I've seen ones where the plot actually made sense and the human characters weren't all a complete waste of time.

If they made this movie based on "Only people who liked the Japanese kaiju movies are going to 'get it'," then that's probably a mistake. Maybe it explains some of why the script was so bad or the characters so loathsome. It does NOT excuse it.

It's like "Terminator: Genisys" trying super-hard to mimic scenes from T1 and T2 and be a "love letter" to those films. Okay, nice, thanks for the effort, but every other thing in that movie was absolutely terrible so the effort was wasted.

Again, I liked the other three movies in this series more than most people did, based on what I generally see and hear. Based on Those Movies, I had certain expectations for this one; specifically, that the non-kaiju parts of the movie might be "lesser", but not explicitly terrible. But they ARE terrible. The ONLY parts of the movie worth re-watching are the monster fights, and that's a failure. The other movies didn't "go there", and it's silly to imply that they didn't have to make a good movie Just Because, for This or That reason. They already made three good movies, in my opinion. If they suddenly up and decided, Just For Fun, "What if we tried making a piece of crap, instead?", well... I can't help it, that bothers me.

I'm kind of looking forward to the Blu-ray, because a LOT of people are pointing out that there almost certainly was at least a half hour of Plot & Character stuff that was left on the cutting room floor in order to get to the action scenes quicker, and that almost certainly has to be true. There was a much better movie to be built somewhere on the bones of This One.

I'm glad some people got some sincere and heartfelt enjoyment out of it. I really, REALLY wanted to; I was all-in after the previous three and this was one of the very few movies I was looking forward to watching this year, because most of what's coming out looks lousy. But I had high hopes for this. And I keep having to tell myself that I didn't hate it. And that's bad.

And it just seems kind of silly to insist that "It's great if you Just Don't Care about it being any good in an objective sense," or "It's great if you know a bunch of old Japanese monster movies backwards and forwards." Like I have no doubt whatsoever that that does help, and on some level that's good; except the previous three films didn't have that specific limitation/"demand" and they were all still enjoyable. Warts and all, I would still argue that KOTM is a "good movie" on its own terms. I can't in good faith argue that with this one.

My problem isn't that they "went Japanese" with it. My problem is that objectively, this movie has one of the worst scripts and worst acting I've seen in a movie in a very long time. And the fact that it may have been "bad on purpose" doesn't make it sit any better with me at all, after three previous films that were NOT "bad on purpose". That argument feels like a cop-out, quite frankly.

After three other good movies, I was sincerely hoping that this franchise would end with more of a Bang and less of a Whimper.

I cannot stress enough that I really, really, REALLY wanted to like this movie.

AquaParade

04-05-2021, 02:02 PM

I hear ya, Powder.

That said, a fan of the Toho films was digging into me a bit, saying that if I didn't enjoy KOTM, than I wouldn't enjoy "most Godzilla films", which I took some issue with. I get that the TOHO films are goofy, but they aren't the end-all, be-all to the franchise. To stick with this example, when that person asked if I had "even seen the older films", I cited 1954 as being an older film that wasn't goofy at all. Apparently that was an "extreme example."

I don't know, I guess I'm just sort of venting. Powder laid his perspective out perfectly well, but it seems like there are some TOHO fans out there that get defensive when you call these last two films out and want to sort of imply that you're not really a Godzilla fan (or some ****) if you don't acknowledge and therefor appreciate the goofier side of the franchise. Most intelligent people realize that there are many ways to interpret the character.

And lastly, to be clear, I'm not against Godzilla movies being goofy. I was perfectly prepared to step into the "WWE" of Godzilla movies with this film, but I had nothing to grab onto, because I found the story, and even the action to be lacking.

Allio

04-05-2021, 02:09 PM

From Shin-Godzilla to Son of Godzilla, Godzilla is like TMNT in the extremes it takes.

My personal favorite Godzilla films are (in no Particular order)

1954, Vs. Biollante, Against Mecha Godzilla, GMK (this is basically if Godzilla was the Grudge), and Shin Godzilla.

For a good western Godzilla, Half Century War is near perfection. If none of you have read it, you really have done yourself a disservice.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 02:17 PM

I'm the type of "fan" that pretty much abhors the "goofy sh*t" in the franchise but can still accept it because that's not ALL the franchise is. But if someone tried to tell me that I wasn't a "Godzilla fan" because I'd rather watch the more "serious" movies than the goofy ones, I'd have to slap that person.

And again, I swear they could have made a movie that was more of a "Japanese" bent without having a plot that was incomprehensible, a set of characters that were entirely expendable, and acting that was atrocious. If THAT is the kind of stuff people identify as "Authentic Godzilla", then I'd argue that they're not giving the franchise nearly enough credit.

Like, some people argue that "Final Wars" is a "bad" Godzilla movie, or "only good because of fanservice". I disagree! It's definitely a Fanservice Movie first and foremost but it in no way was a haphazard mess.

I think you CAN lean into "fanservice" and still make a genuinely Good Movie. I'm not convinced that they even tried to do that with this one.

Allio

04-05-2021, 02:30 PM

Final Wars is okay, but just KoTM I find it just passable. In the millennium series I would put it at # 4, maybe even 5. I prefer it over Godzilla 2000 at least. There just wasn’t a lot of investment in the Kaiju fights until Monster X appeared.

In GVK’s defense despite the whole pandemic taking a toll on the movie theatre and the movie being “free” on HBOmax, it seems to be doing fine.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 04:05 PM

Yeah, but that doesn't fill me with any kind of "hope".

So many "critics" and fans openly saying, "We've all been cooped up so long, we need a big dumb CGI smash-fest to make us forget the overwhelming misery outside. We need comfort food." Maybe *YOU* need that, *I* needed a Good Movie. I'm not so overwhelmed by the "misery" of Real Life that I can watch any movie and just ignore it when I want every single character on my screen to spontaneously combust.

The movie isn't doing well because it's GOOD, it's doing well because everyone is so bored they've dropped all pretense of standards. They're very open about that. That's BAD.

We all deserved a lot better than what is, ultimately, a half hour of a Very Good ScrewAttack "Death Battle" video stapled onto another hour of one of the worst movies ever made. There's not a single minute of the movie that's worth watching aside from the Monster Fight stuff, and I'm sorry, that's just plain indefensible.

And the Monster Fight stuff admittedly IS very good; some of the best ever, perhaps. But the rest of the movie didn't need to be SO terrible. Again, if that stuff was the only point of the project's existence then a ScrewAttack video would have more than sufficed; they didn't need to waste everyone's time and all that money making a movie that isn't objectively any good. Especially after three others that WERE various degrees of Good. But I honestly can't imagine anyone willingly watching this entire movie over from beginning to end without jumping right to the Good Parts and skipping everything else, because Everything Else is rotten.

I just wish the movie was doing well because it DESERVED to do well, not just because Everyone Is Bored. :ohwell:

Allio

04-05-2021, 04:58 PM

Eh, I mean enjoy a film or don’t enjoy a film. Way too much for my pay grade for a film I found “alright.” I’ve already said my piece. I personally don’t give a sh!t about the lowest common denominator when it comes to movie goers.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 05:25 PM

If they made this movie based on "Only people who liked the Japanese kaiju movies are going to 'get it'," then that's probably a mistake. Maybe it explains some of why the script was so bad or the characters so loathsome. It does NOT excuse it.

It's like "Terminator: Genisys" trying super-hard to mimic scenes from T1 and T2 and be a "love letter" to those films. Okay, nice, thanks for the effort, but every other thing in that movie was absolutely terrible so the effort was wasted.

Which always struck me as stupid and counterproductive. "Remember T1 and T2? Those were the best ones, right? Well, here's Genisys... we will revisit them and also WIPE THEM OUT OF CONTINUITY at the same time! How's that for a laugh?"

And no offense to folks, but saying "If you don't like KOTM and GvK that means you didn't watch the Toho stuff" isn't too dissimilar from, let's say some other Fred Wolf-style movie comes out with Bebop and cowabunga and all of that, and saying, "You can't not like the movie! This means you didn't watch the old cartoon!" F*** that cartoon, and I don't care about the Toho movies. What they did with KOTM and GvK is straight up baiting and switching audiences after a very strong lead-in, strong reimagination of things with Godzilla (2014) and Skull Island. It's not even too different from how things shifted from Batman and Batman Returns then into Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Allio

04-05-2021, 05:52 PM

It’s like I mentioned before the danger of being so versatile, anyone that has “their” version of that franchise, kind of like you and Mirage TMNT.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 07:27 PM

Which always struck me as stupid and counterproductive. "Remember T1 and T2? Those were the best ones, right? Well, here's Genisys... we will revisit them and also WIPE THEM OUT OF CONTINUITY at the same time! How's that for a laugh?"

And no offense to folks, but saying "If you don't like KOTM and GvK that means you didn't watch the Toho stuff" isn't too dissimilar from, let's say some other Fred Wolf-style movie comes out with Bebop and cowabunga and all of that, and saying, "You can't not like the movie! This means you didn't watch the old cartoon!" F*** that cartoon, and I don't care about the Toho movies. What they did with KOTM and GvK is straight up baiting and switching audiences after a very strong lead-in, strong reimagination of things with Godzilla (2014) and Skull Island. It's not even too different from how things shifted from Batman and Batman Returns then into Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Great post... even though I still like KOTM.

I mean, if we keep it strictly to movies, and compare This Franchise to TMNT, it's like TMNT 1990 is everything great about the TMNT franchise, and "Out of the Shadows is the absolute nadir, a collection of all the worst things connected to the franchise, and just plain a rotten movie besides. And over here, we have "Kong: Skull Island", which is arguably everything great about these kinds of monster movies (along with SOLID PROOF that "They're all stupid by design, anyway" is 100% False; you CAN make a "real movie" and make it a good one, anytime you want to), and then you have GvK, which is everything bad about kaiju movies, up to and including "No need for plot, these movies are for morons anyway."

Like... do people LIKE being called a moron to their face when they sit down to watch a movie? I know *I* sure don't. :tgrumble:

Allio

04-05-2021, 08:01 PM

I mean the only thing that Skull Island really has over GVK is the characters. And it isn’t like the character’s are “memorable,” as I can’t even remember their names, but like Pacific Rim it’s easy to remember them by their cliches. Outside of really John Goodman’s character everyone was pretty one note.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 08:23 PM

The characters and plot in "Skull Island" at least had a reason to exist beyond mere exposition and/or bad "comedy", and that puts it ahead about 10 points automatically. I can't remember anyone's name in that movie, either, but I'm bad with that in movies anyway, and I never fault the movie for that, I'm just plain bad with names (even in real life). "Did the words coming out of their mouths make sense, and did they make me want to set them on fire or not?" That's my only criteria. I liked the characters in "Skull Island"; I wanted EVERY single character in GvK dead. They all had serious "X-Pac Heat" with me. "Just GO AWAY already." Except Deaf Kid and Scientist Mommy. They were tolerable. Everyone else was awful without exception.

I was hesitant to even bring "Pacific Rim" into the conversation because that's not even fair to every other kaiju movie that's ever been made. They barely even play the same sport. "Pacific Rim" is a "real movie" that happens to be about kaiju; everything else is a "monster movie" that might be Pretty Okay or Just Plain Awful depending on circumstance. It seems almost unfair to compare. PR is like the "Citizen Kane" of kaiju movies, in part because it's just about the only one to aspire for something greater that "disposable popcorn entertainment" and it succeeds masterfully. I don't swing from Del Toro's balls the way some people do, but after seeing how bad the sequel to THAT movie turned out to be, I think it's safe to say that only his type of "vision" can produce something at that level of quality. And he's a rather unique individual, so by no means do I even attempt to hold OTHER kaiju movies to THAT rather lofty and unobtainable standard. Doesn't seem fair to.

I'm actually not even that hard to please, I swear to God. All I ask, generally, is that a movie make me feel SOMETHING, and that "something" is more than "Let this thing be over already." But that's all I felt with this one, aside from the fight scenes. I was engaged for every minute of the previous three films, including KOTM which most people swear is awful. They had me. They HAD me! I didn't even read a lot about the build-up to this movie because I *assumed* that it would be good, since the others were. Today I read a bit and found out that apparently the director's never in his life made a very good movie, and had I known that, well... I may have had some different expectations. Silly me, for thinking "There's no way that they'll whiff after three solid hits in a row." That'll teach ME a lesson, I guess.

Like now that I know he's the one doing the Thundercats movie, I know to expect THAT movie to be sh*t, too. Which is a shame, but at least I know not to bother with it. This is the only movie of his that I've actually seen, but now that I've seen what he does with a franchise that is "for dummies anyway" and therefore "no need to Try Hard"... yeah, not gonna bother with "Thundercats", I've seen where this guy's priorities are.

Of course, any movie with five (!!!) different credited writers is a giant Red Flag, anyway. And let's just stop and think about that for a second: FIVE people, working collectively, produced THAT script. Was it written in crayon? Were they EATING the crayons? How old were these five alleged "writers" who crapped out that script? Because if a single one of them was older than 7, I'm appalled and disgusted.

Allio

04-05-2021, 08:55 PM

I was hesitant to even bring "Pacific Rim" into the conversation because that's not even fair to every other kaiju movie that's ever been made. They barely even play the same sport. "Pacific Rim" is a "real movie" that happens to be about kaiju; everything else is a "monster movie" that might be Pretty Okay or Just Plain Awful depending on circumstance. It seems almost unfair to compare. PR is like the "Citizen Kane" of kaiju movies, in part because it's just about the only one to aspire for something greater that "disposable popcorn entertainment" and it succeeds masterfully. I don't swing from Del Toro's balls the way some people do, but after seeing how bad the sequel to THAT movie turned out to be, I think it's safe to say that only his type of "vision" can produce something at that level of quality. And he's a rather unique individual, so by no means do I even attempt to hold OTHER kaiju movies to THAT rather lofty and unobtainable standard. Doesn't seem fair .

Look I’m not trying to attack your taste or something, and I really like Pacific Rim as well, but I have to ask seriously? It’s like an amalgamation of every Kaiju cliche in the genre. Don’t get me wrong it’s fine as the “fan of anime” that Del Toro was going for, but I just don’t see it as the “citizen Kane” of Kaiju flicks. Do you mean just western standards? I mean I guess that’s fine, but that’s like saying Western “The Ring” is a good J-Horror. I love pacific Rim, but it’s a 5/10.

It’s like calling “The Walking Dead” the best zombie story, it could be someone’s favorite but it literally is everything that is Zombie stories (which is one of the worst sub-genres because of her generic 98% of it is.)

Like I get liking Pacific Rim, but it is just so “yeah, it’s a Kaiju flick.” Nothing is wrong about it, but nothing is inoffensive to it.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 09:03 PM

Let's assess:

- Takes the material seriously? Check.
- Characters who are more than Exposition Machines or Disposable Fodder? Check.
- A plot that's easy to understand but doesn't treat the audience like idiots? Check.
- Doesn't just play stupid and do stupid stuff that doesn't make sense, because "These types of movies are all Dumb Sh*t For Retards anyhow"? Check.
- Good action? Check.
- Actual stakes? Check.
- Good SFX? Check.

Let's be honest: MOST kaiju movies ARE "Stupid Sh*t For Dummies", with very rare exceptions. "Pacific Rim" is one of the only ones that even TRIES to aim higher, and it succeeds. What's "wrong" with it? Be forewarned, if you try and argue that it wasn't any good because "Not Enough Monster Mash", I'm going to roll my eyes so hard they'll probably detach and I'll be sure and send you the hospital bill.

And saying you "love" something and then in the same breath calling it "5/10" literally makes no sense. 5/10 means "I tolerated it". Like, WTF?

Allio

04-05-2021, 09:24 PM

Like I said there is nothing wrong with it per se, you listed everything that should be the bare minimum: though I would take points from SFX, the jaegers never looked good in the day time scenes which is just why people use darkness to cover up CGI; and I disagree with “more than ... disposable fodder” everyone that wasn’t Gypsy Danger was just walking death flags. Which isn’t bad, just adds to the fact everyone is just anime cliches. Cherno Alpha is my favorite Jaeger but I couldn’t tell you nothing about them outside of “being Russian” I can’t even remember if they were married or brother and sister (I want to say it’s the latter?) everything else listed there is the minimum requirement to tell a good Kaiju story.

Just compared to the best Kaiju films, there just is no comparison to the genre’s best. The Gamera 90’s trilogy is arguably perfection.

As for monster mash, I thought it had a lot? Did it not? Yes, I remember there was like 40 minutes of talking after a 20 (?) minute cold opening, but after those 40 minutes it was almost non-stop action.

Again, to use this movie to introduce a person to Kaiju is fine, the movie is inoffensive. To say it’s the best just isn’t true. If a person asked me “I want to watch a Good Kaiju film, but I don’t want to read subtitles or seen their lips not match their words” then... yeah? I’d probably recommend Pacific Rim.

Though if I had one issue with the film. Outside of Knifehead and Otachi, all the Kaiju were boring in design. I like that they were designed as if to be a guy in a suit, but outside of that I just don’t like the designs....Not as bad as PI$$ Goldar from Power Rangers’17, but still not that good.

In some places a 5/10 is average grading (so I guess for you a 7/10)I love it for just being an overall okay Kaiju film, It just wouldn’t be my choice for “Best Kaiju film award.” I give Pacific Rim points for it’s Drifting mechanic, but that’s just a nice gimmick.

Just saying, calling Pacific Rim the “closest thing to Citizen Kane” (which is a phrase I find as tiring as “The dark souls of ______”) is pushing it.

I’m sure it’s someone’s number 1 Kaiju film, but for me it’s an honerable mention at best.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 09:49 PM

5/10 is a solid F- where I went to school, buddy. :lol: Not even an F, an F-. You are correct that around here a 7/10 is an average or "C grade".

Look, I'm gonna politely reiterate that I haven't seen about 90% of the Japanese kaiju flicks that exist. And not to be insulting or dismissive, but most people who aren't "weebs" won't, either. That's just the way it is.

Therefore, when I'm saying things like "Pacific Rim is like the Citizen Kane of kaiju movies", it could perhaps be clarified with the statement that "I can actually get an average non-kaiju fanatic to sit through it and they won't think it's dumb." Fair or Unfair, MOST people view kaiju movies - particularly the Japanese ones - as being something less than "Real Movies".

You might be perfectly correct in stating that the 90s Gamera trilogy is the true pinnacle of these types of films. I, personally, don't know. That might change one day; I plan to live a while yet, and I do like monster movies. However, one thing I DO know, is that aside from my wife there's a 0% chance that I'd ever get anyone in my circle of friends or family to ever watch them to find out what they think. Right or wrong, Fair or Unfair, most of the people I know personally look down quite strongly upon Japanese kaiju films. "Those aren't Real Movies", to them, and there's no changing their minds. I think that's unfairly dismissive on their part, but it is, indeed, the way they - and truthfully, Most People - do think.

BUT. A lot of those same people watched "Pacific Rim" and liked it a whole bunch. "It felt like a Real Movie and it was good." Most people in my circle were quite shocked by how good it actually was, compared to what their own expectations for these types of movies generally are. Anecdotal, sure, but I still feel that it bears mentioning. Among a group of diverse people who have little in common but almost universally feel like kaiju movies are junk food by design, "Simple Things For Simple Minds", they all felt like "Pacific Rim" was not only a triumph as a film but also in fact an elevation of an entire genre of movies.

I've never screened it for anyone who didn't like it a lot. I can't even get them to watch the original "Gojira", or "Final Wars", or anything like that, and most of them were underwhelmed by the recent Godzilla solo flick to the point where they haven't watched any of the ones since. But in Real Life, I've never met anyone who was underwhelmed by "Pacific Rim". That's a shoot, brother. Again, "It's actually a Real Movie!" is a common refrain.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that "Pacific Rim" is the "Dark Knight of kaiju movies", in that even people who loathe comic book movies in general still loved "The Dark Knight", because that too "was a Real Movie" whereas most others in the same genre settle willingly for being junk. I suppose that would be a slightly less-hyperbolic and more accurate analogy, sure.

It still feels unfair to compare that movie to just about anything else in the genre, though, especially the American attempts. I cannot stress enough that regardless of subject matter, I sincerely appreciate it when a movie refuses to talk to me like I'm an idiot. That goes a super-long way, with me.

Allio

04-05-2021, 09:56 PM

I mean it’s like I said. Pacific Rim is a nice introductory Kaiju film. Fine for newbies.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 10:01 PM

At least it didn't have a script written by FIVE people where "Guy showers with bleach, rants about fluoride in the drinking water" passes for "Plot" and "Character Development".

I'm still trying to figure out how the monkey wasn't crushed to pulp by the whole gravity-inversion thing. Are we to believe he's just THAT much more dense than an average person or ship or whatever? The humans need Magic Ships to get to Hollow Earth, but Kong just jumps in and out like he's diving into the pool, no ill effect whatsoever.

I'm no physicist, but that... that doesn't seem quite right.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 10:04 PM

I mean it’s like I said. Pacific Rim is a nice introductory Kaiju film. Fine for newbies.

I think the mistake here is the repeated assumption that most people are going to watch Pacific Rim (as a gateway drug), then go on and enjoy a bunch of Toho-style kaiju movies. They probably wouldn't. And again, at the first sign of the new Monsterverse here going Toho-esque (KOTM)... audiences rejected it. It lost money.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 10:11 PM

I think the mistake here is the repeated assumption that most people are going to watch Pacific Rim (as a gateway drug), then go on and enjoy a bunch of Toho-style kaiju movies. They probably wouldn't.

Nah, no way. Like I said, most of the people who were surprised by how good Pacific Rim was also think all kaiju movies are for weebs and nitwits. Pacific Rim is likely the only one of those types of movies they'd ever sit through willingly.

I mean, it is what it is. Everybody's heard me rave about how awesome Great Muta is, but unless he's wrestling Sting, they're not gonna give a sh*t. That's just the way people are.

Allio

04-05-2021, 10:14 PM

Isn’t in the movies that the believe theory is that all the monsters came from Hollow Earth (as mentioned in Skull Island), I mean Kong’s species does come from Hollow Earth and since he and his parents are above ground it is more than likely he (and his kind) have evolved to a point that they could get through that gravity-inversions, hell even the Skull Crawlers had to evolve from that point to get through the inversion in Skull Island.

My only complaint is that “why not use the passage on Skull Island?” though I guess the storm that ran through the island destroy the entrance.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 10:17 PM

Isn’t in the movies that the believe theory is that all the monsters came from Hollow Earth (as mentioned in Skull Island), I mean Kong’s species does come from Hollow Earth and since he and his parents are above ground it is more than likely he (and his kind) have evolved to a point that they could get through that gravity-inversions, hell even the Skull Crawlers had to evolve from that point to get through the inversion in Skull Island.

I don't see what any of this has to do with horribly written characters and ghastly scripting.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 10:23 PM

I mean, sure, but Kong is still just a giant gorilla. That's what sort of stretches my suspension of disbelief a little bit.

I can believe more that Godzilla and other species could manage it, maybe, whether that be from their "armored" skin or "nuclear" insides or whatever other nonsense.

Like, I can sort of accept the premise itself on faith, even though in Real Life "Hollow Earth" is absolute junk science. I'm like "Whatever, within the context of this fictional universe, it's plausible. No problem." Kind of like how despite being rather Agnostic, I can absolutely accept God existing as an absolute fact within the context of a movie or story or whatever. "It's real Over There", that's fine.

But I guess the movie just made traversing in and out of the Hollow Earth a little bit TOO easy for Kong and too difficult for "normies", is the thing. Like, I'd imagine at the very least that his eyeballs and internal organs would have gone through some sort of ordeal during the trip. Maybe he could've puked, bled from the ears, I don't know. SOMEthing to show that it was rough on him. As it stands, the movie made it look like fighting Godzilla underwater was MUCH harder on Kong than going in and out of the Hollow Earth with all its gravity inversion shenanigans, and that's one HELL of an inconsistency. Like, he totally shrugged off the gravity inversion, and THEN he nearly drowns in regular seawater. Like... what?

Allio

04-05-2021, 10:26 PM

I don't see what any of this has to do with horribly written characters and ghastly scripting.

We weren’t talking about the characters or the scripting? He asked a question on “how” and I answered.

There is definitely issues with the whole Gravity inversion. Personally I would have gone that and borrowed from king of the monsters and say something like the radiation being so great that no normal ship can get through (unless built by some rich asshole who didn’t want to fund the cure for cancer) maybe have Kong have a strong resistance to radiation, hence how his species been at war with Godzilla, why he is able to just hold an active radiation scale filled with radioactive energy of his enemy with ease and why the “radiation” blast to the back didn’t have as much damage as it should have.

Though there is also the question at the ending how all those humans got to Hollow Earth at the end of the film despite the gravity inversion... I guess they used the path to Hong Kong (but I do like the idea that they just robbed Aphex’s ****.

I think the mistake here is the repeated assumption that most people are going to watch Pacific Rim (as a gateway drug), then go on and enjoy a bunch of Toho-style kaiju movies. They probably wouldn't. And again, at the first sign of the new Monsterverse here going Toho-esque (KOTM)... audiences rejected it. It lost money.

Yeah, I see it like game of thrones. The normies will flock to that, but will never pick up a DND book.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 10:39 PM

I knew what you meant. :) I think the confusion was because my question was on the last page and your reply showed up on this page and didn't have a quote. It happens.

And yeah, that would have been something more of an explanation, definitely.

Like, I can accept the Hollow Earth premise and actually found it intriguing. But I don't think they did enough with it AND also I thought that there were inconsistencies with the logic and things that weren't fleshed out enough.

Like, if the trip had been rougher on Kong after all that "No normal thing can get through!" build-up, it would have been more satisfying. Maybe some more drama, "How do we know Kong can even survive the trip?" or whatever. Maybe tease somehow that he didn't actually survive, like maybe he's passed out and non-responsive at first, maybe he was bleeding out the eyeballs, SOMEthing. Something just to illustrate that even for Kong, jumping in and out of this massive and dangerous Gravity Tunnel was more than a hop over a fence.

Again, he made it through THAT just fine but he almost drowned from fighting Godzilla underwater for a couple of minutes. That... doesn't feel right at all. Like the one thing was Too Easy and then the other thing was Too Hard. Both parts needed some work to make Kong's "power level" feel more consistent.

Allio

04-05-2021, 10:43 PM

I mean even I could kick a shark’s ass on land :D

I knew what you meant. :) I think the confusion was because my question was on the last page and your reply showed up on this page and didn't have a quote. It happens.

Yeah, saw after the fact that there was two posts in between.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 10:50 PM

I mean even I could kick a shark’s ass on land :D

p_NS2H55dxI

Leo656

04-05-2021, 10:54 PM

Sheeeeeiiiit, I'll box a shark underwater right now... long as I'm drunk on Jack, first. :lol:

I'm also accepting bookings for kickboxing a kangaroo, playing darts with an octopus, and I once shot a game of HORSE with a Maine lobster of unusual size.

I lost, but in my defense I'm white, and therefore no good at basketball. That kangaroo is totally f*cked, though.

Powder

04-05-2021, 10:58 PM

I went to bed & came back to two pages worth. :tlol: I stand by my comments. I'm not saying anyone is a fake fan, or that any particular version of Godzilla is the "truest", just that, ya know, maybe some of you need to temper your expectations given that you are unfamiliar with what is typical for this series.

Pacific Rim is one of the worst movies I've ever seen, at least within the genre. If that's your measure of what a "good" kaiju film is, then you've got some weird bias clouding your judgement. That sh*t had terrible acting, incomprehensible BS at every turn, obnoxious disposable characters, forced melodrama, all the stuff you take issue with this series for, but way, way worse.

Frankly Toho did "realistic" godzilla far better than anyone with Shin Godzilla unlike 2014 which was just boring. It's good they went the cheese route for the monsterverse since they had already lost the realistic approach with a boring film.

Kong Skull Island is pretty good, haven't caught KOTM or GvK yet but as long as they don't take themselves too seriously it'll be fine. the route Kong took seemed better for this universe.

But apparently the movie is doing well? Will they continue the monsterverse?

Bingo. America doesn't "get" Godzilla, IMO, so it's better they lean into what's easier for them to do, blockbuster spectacle. They could never emulate the mood, feelings, poignance of '54, Shin, etc. Better they go the Destroy All Monsters route, as they have. 2014 was a complete & total snooze, outside of a few select scenes. Skull Island was definitely the best of the Monsterverse, but I guess there's things with Kong you can do that don't quite fit into the framework of Godzilla's character as much, without entirely changing who/what he is & represents. #keepmonsterversegoing or something similar has been trending, & Legendary actually acknowledged it on social media, so who knows. If nothing else, discussions are being had, for sure.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 11:02 PM

There isn't a single polite thing I can say in reply to that assessment.

I'd rather we stay friends, so... I'mma just say nothing. :lol: But Lord, it isn't easy.

With any luck, TigerClaw will drop another two cents in and I'll just eviscerate him and feel good about it. :trazz:

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 11:04 PM

For some reason I can't embed this particular video... but the Redlettermedia guys did their review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y4BFKZLRUU

Roseangelo

04-05-2021, 11:10 PM

I found this summed up my issues pretty well:

LGGWC5-q1Ts

Overall, I was kind of disappointed there was so much emphasis on Kong. Would have liked more Godzilla story.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 11:12 PM

There definitely was so much Kong that I sincerely felt that "Kong vs. Godzilla" would have been a more apt title. Let's be real, it's a Kong movie and Godzilla is a Guest Star/Antagonist. It's not a movie about Godzilla.

I didn't have a "problem" with it, per se. But given whose name is first on the marquee, I was quite shocked how much of the movie is Kong-centric.

Andrew NDB

04-05-2021, 11:18 PM

It's kind of fair in that we got 2 movies about Godzilla and only 1 movie about Kong. So in this one we get sooooort of 1 more movie about Kong, then the vs. match.

Except it's not very good.

Roseangelo

04-05-2021, 11:30 PM

Except it's not very good.

And also Godzilla (the monster) is better.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 11:32 PM

I mean, at least the right "guy" went over.

Giant Dinosaur with Laser Breath vs. Giant Monkey With NO Lasers Whatsoever. This is absolutely one of those Batman v. Superman "If I wanted it, you'd be dead already!" kinda things, let's just be real about it. :lol:

My wife was gonna pitch a fit if Kong went over. That was like the movie's one saving grace, for her. :lol:

Allio

04-05-2021, 11:48 PM

I did kind of like that. Let Kong lose the title fight but win the 3 act team up. Thought that was fair.

Leo656

04-05-2021, 11:54 PM

Ahhh, but could EITHER of them have managed to stop the unstoppable power of MechaGodzilla if those Goofy Kids didn't have the foresight to pour whiskey all over the console? Or would MechaG have been picking his ass with the bones of Kong AND Godzilla were it not for The Power Of Supreme Plot Contrivance?! :lol::lol::lol:

Yeah... people are right... this movie's a Classic and Pacific Rim's a piece of sh*t. No contest. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.:lol::roll::lol:

I must have missed the part in PR where they closed the wormhole to the Kaiju Dimension by ripping stuff straight out of a goddamn Bugs Bunny cartoon. :lol:

I don't know if the folks here drink too much OR not enough. Seems like it could go either way, sometimes.

Not aimed at you, Allio. Just venting.

Allio

04-06-2021, 12:09 AM

Nah man, it’s funny when you vent.

Leo656

04-06-2021, 12:12 AM

You should see my wife when she decides to go off. :lol: She spends more time in FB Jail than most people spend on FB. :trazz:

She occasionally reads over my shoulder, and when she saw our esteemed friend and colleague's Hot Take on "Pacific Rim" a few posts up, she said she almost went blind. She insisted that I mention this. :lol:

Allio

04-06-2021, 03:27 AM

ZmMzJbOpU3o

A little change in subject

Andrew NDB

04-06-2021, 03:41 AM

ZmMzJbOpU3o

A little change in subject

I hope that's not from a movie...

IMJ

04-06-2021, 09:18 AM

I hope that's not from a movie...

I think it was a cleverly done fan mashup edit of the new Godzilla-verse Godzilla vs the Shin Godzilla.

Allio

04-06-2021, 11:45 AM

I hope that's not from a movie...

That’s fan made

Also first two episodes into Godzilla’s Singular Point. Interesting so far.

Andrew NDB

04-12-2021, 03:12 PM

Interesting metrics.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/godzilla-vs-kong-will-end-up-in-profit/

So they bought out China's stake in producing the movie, removing China from all profits? But "cutting Legendary out from any revenue or profit on the film" still doesn't mean WB gets all of the profits overseas, as theaters aren't going to be showing the movie for free, whether it's here, China, or anywhere else.

Allio

04-15-2021, 01:10 AM

Finally got around to reading the two Godzilla vs Kong comics.

Godzilla Dominion- this one was unique, as no humans appears in this comic aside from one panel. The comic is just about Godzilla looking for a place to rest but has to fight other monsters. Only real info we find out was Godzilla was driven off of Skull island by one of Kong’s species long, long time ago. Luckily nothing that needed to be in the film.

Kingdom Kong. Sadly can’t say as much. This story definitely felt like the Kong movie we needed. Clearly we knew that the contract with Toho basically rushed out GVK so that we lost the second Kong movie. In this story Kong fights a monster that was the cause for the storm that destroyed the island’s entrance to Hollow earth and the islanders.

CyberCubed

04-21-2021, 09:45 AM

Watched this, all the monster fights was really well done and entertaining to watch. Great CG and action. And I liked that Kong was more sympathetic and the "good guy" of the film.

But like most of these films, all the human characters are uninteresting and everytime the scene cuts to them I get bored. In all these monster movies they struggle to make the human characters compelling, and yeah, people don't watch these movies for the humans so it doesn't really matter, but still it's a 2 hour movie with a lot of humans.

This is another one of those movies where I'll rewatch it for the monster fights but skip 90% of the human scenes next time.

For the record I really liked Kong and Skull Island, and the 2005 King Kong movie.

IMJ

04-21-2021, 10:52 AM

I thought it was interesting how the human characters represented a faction. "Side Kong" and "Side Godzilla".

ZariusTwo

04-19-2023, 11:33 AM

The sequel is titled "Godzilla vs Kong: The New Empire"

https://twitter.com/ErikDavis/status/1648719334959910912

Cowabung-Gal

04-19-2023, 03:07 PM

1QLQCfw5lAM

:o

Notice that it’s now “Godzilla X Kong” and not “Godzilla VS Kong”?

Guess they’re buddies now?

Sumac

04-19-2023, 03:43 PM

What their babies gonna be: Kongzllas or Godkongs?
Latter sounds better.

oldmanwinters

04-19-2023, 04:28 PM

A Kong-type kaiju with Godzilla's atomic powers would be quite an interesting addition to the monster-verse.

Sumac

04-20-2023, 05:28 AM

A Kong-type kaiju with Godzilla's atomic powers would be quite an interesting addition to the monster-verse.
I am sure in 50+ years of Kaijus there is already some kind of a thing like this. Japanese turn everything into monsters - from toasters to trucks, I am sure giant ape with an atomic breath is a no brainer. I'd even bet it might couple of additional powers, like infrared vision or underwater breathing.

Allio

05-19-2023, 09:15 PM

upQYSSXHv7s

Now we need a Godzilla/Kong Robo.

Allio

06-26-2023, 12:15 PM

So the first of the two Monsterverse tv shows came out. Skull island was fine. Nothing really too extraordinary. Out of all the king cartoons, it’s probably the best, but that isn’t a high bar.

TheCanadiandrome

06-27-2023, 02:46 PM

1QLQCfw5lAM

:o

Notice that it’s now “Godzilla X Kong” and not “Godzilla VS Kong”?

Guess they’re buddies now?

Ye didn’t ya see the knuckle bump at the end of the last film? :lol:

Andrew NDB

06-27-2023, 04:19 PM

So basically it'll just be Godzilla vs. Kong except without them fighting each other, and with some new evil Kong to fight instead of Mechagodzilla? Does that sound about right?

TheCanadiandrome

06-27-2023, 10:34 PM

So basically it'll just be Godzilla vs. Kong except without them fighting each other, and with some new evil Kong to fight instead of Mechagodzilla? Does that sound about right?

Seems like ye

Allio

07-19-2023, 08:00 PM

In October, Godzilla and Kong will be pulled into the DC universe for a crossover

Allio

11-05-2023, 01:50 AM

J5I00p3KqvE?si=Z523i_3I5q2s0nkq

D__GbFY08Og?si=iP7OFzXmJkS-dXY6

For Godzilla’s birthday every year, Toho has been doing some shorts to celebrate. This year we get two featuring the return of Megalon and Jet Jaguar.

TheCanadiandrome

11-07-2023, 09:51 AM

In October, Godzilla and Kong will be pulled into the DC universe for a crossover

Why not, Godzilla crossed with MMPR so why not DC :lol::lol:

Allio

12-03-2023, 05:27 PM

lV1OOlGwExM?si=pLNJ0QEqISNkiypf

Cowabung-Gal

12-03-2023, 06:39 PM

Godzilla is actually…running? :teek:

Well, it’s no more weird than this:

https://media.tenor.com/GSUG9FjKlRUAAAAC/godzilla-dropkick-godzilla.gif

Anarchistguy

12-03-2023, 06:54 PM

Godzilla is actually…running? :teek:

Well, it’s no more weird than this:

https://media.tenor.com/GSUG9FjKlRUAAAAC/godzilla-dropkick-godzilla.gif

Nice timing.

I'm watching Brandon Tenold's review of the movie your gif is from.

And I recall he was running in the 2019 movie.

Cowabung-Gal

12-03-2023, 07:02 PM

And I recall he was running in the 2019 movie.

Yeah, but, like a football player? Lol

oldmanwinters

12-03-2023, 07:10 PM

After seeing Minus One today, the cgi on Legendary’s BigG just doesn’t move the needle for me. GMinusOne had me shook multiple times. Felt like I was a participant in the spectacle.

Cowabung-Gal

12-05-2023, 11:19 PM

As cool as the pink dorsal plates are (they are also a callback to the Millennium era), I hope it’s not a permanent feature because I prefer the classic blue color.

drgon78

12-06-2023, 05:35 AM

I prefer classic blue as well.

Andrew NDB

12-06-2023, 10:56 AM

It's probably just to explain how he can run, etc..

IMJ

12-06-2023, 12:13 PM

After seeing Minus One today, the cgi on Legendary’s BigG just doesn’t move the needle for me. GMinusOne had me shook multiple times. Felt like I was a participant in the spectacle.

I still think the newer Legendary movies are terrific - every one of them. No need to diminish one for another, even if Minus One is guy-in-suit authentic to the original spirit of the series.

Andrew NDB

12-06-2023, 12:23 PM

even if Minus One is guy-in-suit authentic to the original spirit of the series.

Does Minus One really have a guy in a suit? I couldn't tell from the trailer.

Allio

12-06-2023, 12:40 PM

Like with Shin, it was just motion capture.

Panda_Kahn_fan

12-07-2023, 02:20 AM

I've seen minus one..... and this trailer looks horrid compared to that masterpiece.

Cowabung-Gal

01-07-2024, 06:12 PM

nf7GsKFepDg

These Owl Kitty parodies are great :lol:

sdp

01-07-2024, 08:01 PM

Cowabung-Gal

01-07-2024, 08:40 PM

This **** looks ridiculous. Who cares about gaijin Godzilla now that Japan is making the best Goji movies ever made. The Kong vs Godzilla was a good enough gimmick to get people excited but who's going to want to watch the second team up where they battle an ice lizard and another ape?

Uh…me?

And there’s supposedly going to be even more kaiju, like Mothra making her return. Rumors also say that a space kaiju will make its appearance after the end credits, most likely SpaceGodzilla.

The Legendary movies are like the Showa era movies. Are they cheesy? Yes. Can they be remarkably stupid? Also yes. But they can be fun, nonetheless. And in 2024, hardly anyone knows how to have fun anymore; everything has to be so serious and doom and gloom and preachy-wokey.

Me, personally? I prefer to watch Godzilla kick new giant kaiju/robot butt than to watch him trample on Tokyo like an angry mindless monster (again) and be temporarily killed with hints of him coming back (again).

XERO

01-08-2024, 04:22 PM

I just hope they do this camera shot with Kong and 'Zilla.

https://i.insider.com/53aafbc869bedd4268c768a8

ProphetofGanja

01-09-2024, 01:41 PM

I just hope they do this camera shot with Kong and 'Zilla.

https://i.insider.com/53aafbc869bedd4268c768a8

:lol: hell yeah, brother

Cowabung-Gal

01-20-2024, 06:12 PM

There’s a rumor that the new kaiju Shimo, if she is in fact a she, will get with Godzilla and together they will produce Minilla

XERO

01-20-2024, 09:27 PM

There’s a rumor that the new kaiju Shimo, if she is in fact a she, will get with Godzilla and together they will produce Minilla

They better call that the "Thrilla for Minilla".

Cowabung-Gal

02-27-2024, 02:23 PM

So apparently the military is trying to kill Godzilla again, based on what is shown in the trailers.

How stupid and futile. Missile strikes feel like mosquito bites to these kaiju. Maybe that worked on Zilla from the 1998 film but not on Legendary Godzilla.

XERO

02-27-2024, 03:54 PM

To be fair, mosquito bites are still f*ckin' annoying.

Cowabung-Gal

02-27-2024, 04:05 PM

To be fair, mosquito bites are still f*ckin' annoying.

True. No wonder Godzilla swats at the fighter jets.

XERO

02-27-2024, 11:34 PM

True. No wonder Godzilla swats at the fighter jets.

If he swats one of them down, does that count as Minus One? rimshot

Allio

02-29-2024, 12:01 AM

So created a concept for the idea if the sentai series “King-Ohger” was added to the Monsterverse

King-Ohger in Monsterverse AU

So with the end of Ohsama Sentai King-Ohger I decided what it would be like if Super Sentai was part of Monsterverse, not Power Rangers, but Sentai. And so I thought it would be fun to make that Sentai being King-Ohger for its much more unique setting.

For this hypothetical concept, there will be some precedent to set up before hand. In this hypothetical Monsterverse, we have already introduced Ultraman and Gamera – this will in no way influence King-ohger’s inclusion, but since we are already taking in massive amount of fanstasy to make this concept into reality, might as well go all out.

I will refer to the characters by their King-Ohger names. While there is some precedent that names would be changed, it seems like it would be easier to keep everything clean by just referring to their original names.

While this post would be solely focusing on the King-Ohger stuff, I will go over some Monsterverse crossover including “set up” for the Kings in Prior MV movies. This is just so that the movie just doesn’t come out of nowhere in this universe, but I will keep the stuff contained to the universe of the franchise so there won’t be any reference to a “Gamera movie” outside of some generic stuff.

I will only go over just the first movie, and the first “Crossover” movie for this Cinematic universe plus some ideas for the King-Ohger sequel. I will also put out some ideas and concepts for endgame stuff, but that’s about it.

***Set Up***

Monarch Series – Set during a post-Godzilla vs Kong timeline, a researcher from Monarch discovers that there are ruins of what seems to be an ancient human civilization that had been wiped out a long time ago in hollow earth. Upon researching this lost civilization he learns of its demise was due to Dagded. This character will be the Racles stand in.

Mothra: Infestation – In this hypothetical movie, Mothra will team up with Battra to stop the Megaguirus Infestation. In this film, there would be several appearances of many insect type of Kaiju including Scylla and Kumonga. This could even be used to set up Legion for a Gamera movie. During the film, there are appearances of the Shugods: God Kumos #1 and #2, God Tentou Twins, and God Ant.

Monsterverse Crossover King-ohger stinger – During this film (let’s say “Destroy All Monsters”) a strange monarch character gets some strange screen time. At the end of the film, the narrator narrates the last bit of the film in regards to there being many mysteries still left to be discovered in “Hollow Earth” and that “History will soon repeat itself” and as it does, there is a panning shot of the ruins of an ancient civilization as we get a close up of what seems to be a sword in a stone. And the famous last words before the screen cuts to black “Or so the story goes.” The narrator in this case being obviously Monsterverse’s Jeremie who, as an immortal, has worked his way under Monarch.

And now we begin. King-Ohger.

**Basic Story**

The premise of the first film is simple. It adapts the first arc of the King-Ohger series. It also sets God Hopper, God Scorpion, and God Kabuto for the first post-king Monsterverse crossover. This film will also use elements from the “Heaven’s Adventure” film. Character story is going to shrewed more closer to the first pacific Rim film, rather than the 2017 YA Power Rangers film. This will allow for the characters to still be more exaggerated and fit the tone that the Monsterverse seems to be going for now. Keeping with the traditional non-traditional aspects of King-ohger, the team won’t necessarily be a full team, but will soon be united under the “King of Kings” Titan “Kingojer”.

In this “Monsterverse” Au, the main team of Rangers are just regular people that get brought into Hollow Earth as they are brought into ruins of ancient human civilization that lived there a long time ago. These civilizations are this universe version of Shuggodam, Ishabana, Gokkun, Toufu, N’kosopa. The characters are forced the face the trials of the kings and their own shadows in order to take on the mantels of the kings if the world is to survive the coming of an Omega (Dagded) that once destroyed Hollow Earth’s humanity.

Meanwhile, even beneath hollow earth (I know, right? *Can we get much deeper\~*) there is an awakening of the Bugnarok as Desnarok wants to destroy the civilization above. We see the familiar Monarch character watching from afar, Spider Kumonos wont be a thing until the sequel.

As each of the king’s overcome their trials, their Corresponding shuggods appear before them as they each pull the swords. Each Shuggod bows as they accept the new kings. Meanwhile the Bugnarok rise from the ground and attacks the kings, leading to their first transformation. Last is “Gira” as he faces his trial. Then he is finally able to become king as Kuwagata chooses him and clear it.

Then as for final battle, I’m stuck on whether or not it would be a regular Bugnarok monster, or Desnarok himself. In King-ohger, he is the 8th, everytime he is destroyed in the Monsterverse, what remains may be able to regenerate into the next generation of Desnarok (so you get 7th, 8th, 9th, etc). Until he is ultimately wiped out by Dagdud.

The final battle explodes out of hollow earth and into the city above, getting scenes very reminiscent of Episode 2 of King-ohger. Also get scenes of Guardian Rolling, and Guardian Snail. With the apparent defeat of Bugnarok, the Kings are then surrounded by Monarch Soldiers, leading into the next big Monsterverse crossover.

Mid credits: You have a scene of the Monarch researcher, Racles, looking into the ruins in regard to lost Shuggods: Hopper, Kabuto, and Scorpion.

Post credit scene: Desnarok is preparing for the for the massive attack around the world.

Now we get to the characters. Honestly all the characters stay intact. It pretty much .

Okay. I just found out we have a limit

Allio

02-29-2024, 12:02 AM

Part 2

**Red**

Playing into Drama club aspect, Gira here is definite for the dramatic flair. While he doesn’t attend college, where the Kugane stand-in does, he is invited at the beginning of the film to see a presentation about Hollow Earth and the theories of ancient civilizations such as Atlantis. During the presentation, he does fall asleep and have dreams of the five kingdoms in their prime. The dream is so surreal, it is like he was there. There is still connection to Dugded, though wouldn’t be confirmed until the third \*non-crossover\* film. Is an empath towards the shuggods

The King’s Trial: Trial of the Throne. Trial of the Throne is more or less the same as the Heaven’s Adventure film, where here Gira is face-to-face with the original King of Shuggodam, Reiniol, represented as an old grudge in the monstrous “Burial Arms” form. As an empath, he is able to connect toward’s Reiniol’s spirit, witnessing the loss of everyone he loved, God Kuwagata chooses Gira and allows him to transform to cut down Reiniol’s Burial Arms, cutting his chains to the earth, and allowing him to pass on.

**Blue**

“Yanma” is still the jock/nerd of the group. As far as characteristics are concerned, he doesn’t change much. Of each of these modern kings, he is the ones that visits the ruins of his country the most as he wants to study the seemingly advance technology of old. And as someone who doesn’t have a family, he has no one waiting for him at home.

King’s Trial: Trial of the Abandoned (?) This one is a bit tricky as in the series proper, the only thing we know is that the previous king of N’kosopa had abandoned the country after the Fury of the Gods. Perhaps his own trial stems from his own abandonment, and how “pushing” his own feelings down isn’t actually overcoming the trauma. This area needs work.

**Yellow**

“Hymeno” is a doctor in training. With her own trauma of her mother dying when she was younger.

King’s Trial: Trial of Death\*. Upon arriving in the ruins of Ishabana, “Hymeno” is welcomed by not its beauty but what remains of its death. Corpses of the fury of the Gods (both Cicadas, as well as other titans) and once where life resided was now the undead. In her trial, Hymeno has to face not only the corpses of those that lived all those years ago, but also the remnants of her loved ones.

**Purple**

“Rita” is a bit different than her sentai counterpart. The lone survivor of an incident that cost her her right eye, Rita is in mind set where she has no one to blame for her misfortune. Upon arriving in Gokkan, she is nearly frozen to death in the snow. It leaves her face half frozen. Arriving in the ruins of the castle, unlike other places, it almost seems like the entire place is frozen in time.

King’s Trial: Trial of the Guilty\*. In a Silent Hill esque twist, Rita finds herself being hunted by a Yeti-type creature. She has to face her own judgement as she confronts her own Survivors Guilt. Upon facing judgement on herself, the frozen face shatters leaving an eye of ice.

**Black**

“Kaguragi” Open minded, never really knowing what goes on in his mind. He seems to be the one to backstab another but is willing to do anything for his friends and family. Someone that is close to the “Racles” stand in.

King’s Trial: The Trial of Flames\*, Coming into Toufu, he is welcomed by what feels like Hell’s flames as he meets the queen that seems to be burning in her own hell. Has relations to \[Racles\], at this time unknown if they would be brothers, or Suzume would be included in the film or if her inclusion would inflate an already large cast of characters.

\*The trials of Death, Guilty, and Flames are all set up that hints towards The Fury of the Gods as well as Grodi (as well as the other jesters) as “The Fury of the Gods” would be one of the titles for a sequel film.

**First “Monsterverse Crossover event”**

Picking up where the King-ohger film left off, the Monarch Soldiers bring the rangers for investigation. Some interactions include \[Yanma\] basically not wanting to deal with Monarch’s authority, and even has learned to escape thanks to remnant N’kosopa technology he has taken.\[Kaguragi\] knew already that \[Racles\] was a Monarch researcher, but he is playing dumb as \[Racles is having his plan go into fruition on awaken the three great \[Shuggods\]. \[Jeremie\] is working in the background to make sure these new kings are able to escape.

Meanwhile the A-plot of the film is that of Desnarok creating the cocoons around the world to wipe out the surface dwellers. This not only leads to Monarch having to finally put their trust in these “King-Ohger” but also as King-Ohger, Godzilla, Gamera, Ultraman, and Kong have to stand together to face the infestation.

Its revealed that \[Racles\] has betrayed monarch and left to awaken and control the three great shuggods. \[Gira\] confronts him and \[Racles\] reveals his plan to take control of the three shuggods to take control of King-ohger and use it as a hivemind to fully control all titans \[to reveal later to be fully revealed to have all titans fight off Dugded\]. \[Gira\] and \[Racles\] fights which awakens the three gods, but they then team up with the titans defending the earth to beat the infestation of Bugnarok. \[Gira\] is seemingly defeated in their fight.

Post credits does include \[Jeremie\] saving \[Gira’s\] life, saying that “some stories are bound to repeat themselves.

**Ideas and concepts for sequels**

Second film would be would be Jeremie focused as it reveals that he was alive during the age of the old civilization. \[Yanma\] is even show to be trying to bring N’kosopa back online and recreate the kingdom (This would lead into the power up in later films.\] as mentioned before, Grodi would be in a film with the subtitle “The Fury of the Gods” where Kings and Monarch has to stop the destruction that once wiped out the ancient civilization.

The Dugded story line would be the big “Infinity War” big event two parter where he \[an Omega Class\] and his Jesters \[Sigma class\] come to wipe out humanity and the titans

Cowabung-Gal

03-06-2024, 09:55 PM

I never thought I’d see the day when Kong would jump on top of Godzilla and ride on his back.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/4f39262b-f3d1-4854-86d5-052527f033fc/dgz7oei-b74ad98b-0a85-43a7-9823-49ca63408d96.gif?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzRmMzkyNjJiLWYzZDEtNDg1NC04Nm Q1LTA1MjUyN2YwMzNmY1wvZGd6N29laS1iNzRhZDk4Yi0wYTg1 LTQzYTctOTgyMy00OWNhNjM0MDhkOTYuZ2lmIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.fJ9_bItr ay9aCzffO3884GZW004fI00CW5hDwxs4W1o

Andrew NDB

03-07-2024, 12:28 PM

This does look really "surface level cool" but I have absolutely no confidence this won't be another vacuous, soulless experience like GvK.

neatoman

03-07-2024, 04:18 PM

Allio

03-28-2024, 04:59 PM

Just saw the movie and the best way I can explain it is that it is simply… simple. Not a bad thing, but not necessarily something to blow your mind. The story is simple, the characters are simple so nothing is really mind blowing. Now, this is the film that allows for the most humanization of Kong, but also Godzilla feels more like a add on than anything (which seems to be that was the plan that this film was going to be “The Son of Kong”.)

I can see this film being 50/50 for most

lonewarrior20

03-29-2024, 03:17 PM

I enjoyed it, is it so wrong I’d love to see them make a Primal Rage movie?

oldmanwinters

04-02-2024, 02:08 PM

Saw it and enjoyed it. Probably moreso than the previous two "Monsterverse" flicks. I thought this movie made the good decision to only have one "human characters" side-story focused on only four main characters, unlike the previous films which had 2 or 3 (or more) groups of people doing distinct missions and cutting back and forth between them. Kong really does carry most of the movie and he's well animated with face and body expressions. Godzilla's narrative trajectory isn't ever truly ignored, although it's clear the movie is simply hyping him up for a final battle... it's almost like he's the Son Goku role, preparing for a big battle while the other characters drive the runtime until he's ready.

Really glad this movie had a great weekend at the box office. Where the Monsterverse series goes from here is really hard to say... I assume space aliens will be involved and maybe more mecha versions of kaiju.

My only big complaint is that Skar (kept think it was pronounced Ska'ar in the film) never feels like a truly earned global threat by himself, nor is his significance as the alpha ape of Hollow Earth detailed to my satisfaction. You would think that if he treats the other ape titans so badly, there's really no reason why they couldn't overwhelm him with sheer numbers, even if he does have poor Shimo by the tail.

A minor critique is that it feels like this movie retcons Mothra's involvement in G:King of the Monsters (2019), but seems to make slightly better use of the character, so it's somewhat appreciated. Still, it feels like the creatives really pick and choose from the established lore as it suits their fancy. "Mothra" gets built up as a major force of nature not because the cinematic universe's own lore demands it but because she's got a name with some mainstream recognizability. Somehow Mothra's revival is now tied to descendants of the former indigenous tribe of Skull Island instead of the traditional Infant Island lore and the twin fairies. Also, I felt like the movie somehow tried to give her a more explicitly feminine redesign that I don't remember from the previous film, almost as if she now has an hourglass figure and curiously sexy (https://www.instagram.com/p/C4eNXV7Lvhb/?hl=en&img_index=2) legs.

Apparently, the tie-in novelization has some interesting lore reveals that go into more detail about the Monsterverse's canon. Might be worth picking up for fans!

Cowabung-Gal

04-02-2024, 03:17 PM

My stepdad and I went to go see it last night and we enjoyed it. I found myself laughing several times throughout the whole film.

My favorite parts:

Godzilla roaring at a helicopter that got too close, like “Get outta my face yo!”

Skar King laughing at Kong’s fake tooth, only for him to lose a tooth himself after Kong punches him in the face later on. Karma!

Godzilla and Kong making their grand entrance in Hollow Earth and charging toward Skar and Shimo.

Kong smirking at Godzilla after smashing the frozen Skar into little pieces, almost as if to say, “See what I just did, bro? Cool right?”

drgon78

04-03-2024, 05:40 AM

I saw it Monday, enjoyed it, hope it makes enough money we will get more.

MikeandRaph87

04-03-2024, 03:16 PM

I just got home from seeing the film. It was good with fewer humans and something of a plot with returning characters, something unusual for a Godzilla film. However, I felt like I was being addressed when Hayes did not recognize Dr. Andrews. I didn't either with a different hair color and much shorter haircut.

Also, when the animals are communicating if there could be subtitles to give more substance. I feel like it would help the audience with the plot and the casual audience understanding of what is going on.

Overall, however I liked it.

Andrew NDB

04-03-2024, 03:45 PM

Did anyone that hated/strongly disliked GvK end up really liking this one?

IMJ

04-03-2024, 05:57 PM

Did anyone that hated/strongly disliked GvK end up really liking this one?

These aren't without their flaws, but honestly I don't know how anyone could hate them. They are a ton of fun, the VFX are generally great and you even have pretty good add-on content with the Monarch show.

Andrew NDB

04-03-2024, 06:36 PM

These aren't without their flaws, but honestly I don't know how anyone could hate them. They are a ton of fun, the VFX are generally great and you even have pretty good add-on content with the Monarch show.

I was OK with GvK for the most part, in spite of its silliness. By that point, I was primed for it. But Godzilla: KotM, man, I think I did hate that one. It's tone and camp and silliness and wacky technology just yanked me out of the movie and was such a marked regression from what the 2014 movie was like. You can tiptoe into a bit of "silly" without BEING silly, like Skull Island was able to do for the most part.

neatoman

04-04-2024, 01:57 PM

You know, I don't think I would have said I wanted to see a movie in which King Kong literally goes to the dentist, takes a shower because he feels gross, uses a baby orangutan as a club to fight other apes, bonds with said baby despite this and betrayal, a red gibbon making said other apes slaves in mines and does the "pointing soyjak" thing at Kong's denture, enslaves an ice-ankylosaur, Godzilla killing another monster to squat in its radiation chamber and several important landmarks get destroyed, not because it's meant to showcase the horror of what is happening (even though it includes shots of people running away in terror) but for spectacle.

... And I still wouldn't. This might be the most idiotic movie to feature either Godzilla or King Kong since the 70's. I haven't seen King Kong Lives so maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure not even Godzilla Final Wars is this dumb.

It's gonna be kind of nice when King Kong Goes public domain in 5 years, then nobody can abuse an exclusivity deal like this anymore.

Cowabung-Gal

04-04-2024, 02:10 PM

This might be the most idiotic movie to feature either Godzilla or King Kong since the 70's.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/GG3AbjunoOgAAAAC/willy-wonka-gene-wilder.gif

https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/why-the-1998-godzilla-movie-bombed-at-the-box-office/intro-1691678188.webp

neatoman

04-04-2024, 02:14 PM

https://media1.tenor.com/m/GG3AbjunoOgAAAAC/willy-wonka-gene-wilder.gif

https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/why-the-1998-godzilla-movie-bombed-at-the-box-office/intro-1691678188.webp

Retroactively, that is not Godzilla. Toho's official stance is that this creature is an unrelated monster and was just mistaken for being Godzilla.

Cowabung-Gal

04-04-2024, 02:29 PM

Retroactively, that is not Godzilla. Toho's official stance is that this creature is an unrelated monster and was just mistaken for being Godzilla.

But at the time it was released, it was officially recognized as Godzilla, even though most of the fandom argued otherwise due to how weak and vastly different this Jurassic Park ripoff was from the original Japanese kaiju. In fact, Toho was presented the final design and the initial response by the board was stunned silence. But they later gave Emmerich their approval. So as much as they like to dump on America for “ruining” Godzilla, it was their fault too. They were that desperate to make more money off their most popular monster, and since 1994 the American Godzilla was revised and rejected over and over again until it eventually fell into Emmerich’s hands, and he could produce a disaster movie at a much cheaper budget. They would later try to cover up their mess by saying that this Godzilla was an imposter and an entirely different creature named “Zilla”, which is no different than comic writers retconning certain events that upset many fans and drove them away.

oldmanwinters

04-04-2024, 03:15 PM

I'm pretty sure not even Godzilla Final Wars is this dumb.

Yeah, Final Wars is WAY dumber. I recently recorded a podcast on it, and it is one big play on The Matrix and X-Men movies headlined by a former wrestler born to play the role of live-action Mike Haggar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykIDS42BMEA) and you feel every one of its 125-minute runtime. That said, I still enjoy it, as I did this new film (but to a much greater degree).

Another thing that threw me in GxKtNE is trying to keep the scale of the titans believable. How big is "Lil' Kong", exactly? Dinosaur-size like a T-Rex that could be comparable to the original 1933 Kong? And does Kong tower so high above the trees of Hollow Earth that he makes them look like tall grass? How tall does a waterfall have to be to allow him to take a shower?

It's gonna be kind of nice when King Kong Goes public domain in 5 years, then nobody can abuse an exclusivity deal like this anymore.

I was thinking Kong is technically public domain already, even though certain trademark rights and the original film are still protected under WB for a few more years. Universal and Paramount probably have their own trademarks on their versions of character as well.

Godzilla's copyright status in Japan is another interesting question, as the film could become public domain over there long before it ever would in the USA (2025-2031 has been batted around online (https://www.reddit.com/r/publicdomain/comments/14b75i3/will_godzilla_enter_the_public_domain_in_japan_in/)), although because Japan has a history of being even more protective of their national IPs than the USA, it's likely Toho will continue to keep their legal rights over BigG's trademark for a long time to come.

TigerClaw

04-04-2024, 06:11 PM

Adam Wingard teases Baby Godzilla for Godzilla x Kong 3.
https://discussingfilm.net/2024/04/04/godzilla-x-kong-director-adam-wingard-teases-baby-godzilla-and-destoroyah-inspirations-in-his-next-monsterverse-sequel/

Cowabung-Gal

04-07-2024, 06:42 PM

I noticed that Skar King had his own harem. So it’s possible that Suko is his son.

JAgdtGZVvKA

“It isn’t fair. He gets all the girls.”

Powder

04-29-2024, 04:12 PM

I loved this movie. It was so lovingly referential to the Showa-era Godzilla films that I adore, & I was surprised that it seemed to take a lot of influence from Rebirth of Mothra II (though any similarities could be coincidental I guess). This series has definitely gone the same route of the original Showa-era films, starting in a very grounded, dark way, & gradually becoming more absurd, comedic, & sci-fi driven. I'm all for it, personally.

I don't expect or want American studios to make hyper-realistic, poignant, profound Godzilla movies. Defeats the purpose entirely. Godzilla exists only because of the USA's crimes against man, God, nature, through the lens of the Japanese survivors of WW2. Shin Godzilla, Minus One, you want that, there it is. I like that the American ones quickly began to feel... American. It sets them apart. Goes to show that we're playing graciously with borrowed toys, having fun in the sandbox rather than trying to one-up the source material.

This flick felt like something right out of my growing up in the early 90's. Extreme, neon, absurd, over-the-top, a monumental crossover of epic proportions filled with cannon fodder creatures & awe-inspiring fantastical landscapes. The crystal caves, lava pits, icey abysses, apes fighting lizards, can you say "Donkey Kong Country", or perhaps even "Primal Rage"? It was like an arcade game, a comic book, & a toyline all at once. I mean, yeah, much like those works of my youth, it was definitely made with selling toys in mind. The evolved forms, robotic limbs, wild colors, even handheld weapons, yeah, for sure. I grew up on that kind of crazy stuff though, so I'm biased towards it when it suits me. I'm often critical of media that feels too much like a toy-shilling cartoon, but I think this movie did the best it could with having to hit those surely Playmates-mandated bullet points. It was genuinely fun in its silliness.

That said, there was a LOT of silliness. I think it's on-brand silliness, though. I normally wouldn't want a film like this to be so full of humor but thankfully it wasn't so much your typical Marvel movie quippy dialogue but rather relatable levity (through Bernie) or visual gags (Kong swinging Suko like a weapon, taking showers, getting dental work, knocking over the pyramids, etc). I was pleasantly surprised by how much I laughed out loud. Pretty much smiling on cruise control the whole way, either by the jokes or the sheer coolness factor of a lotta stuff shown.

Loved the clever callbacks like using the flying creatures' electric signals to not only camoflague their vessel but also to herd & weaponize their flock in the final conflict, or Kong's satisfying tooth mocking redemption bit between he & Skar. I've really really enjoyed the world building on Kong's side of this cinematic universe, so it's cool to see how much of that has paid off over time. The lore, his relationship with the young girl, & now her subsequent ties to Mothra, it's great. Something to be invested in emotionally without it getting into complicated geopolitics.

I enjoyed all of the new characters, human & kaiju alike. Though, once more, it seems pretty obvious, at least by my own assumptions, that a lot of the new monsters were intended to be or are otherwise inspired by previous Toho kaiju. The serpent is clearly a riff on Manda, & Shimu is basically just an arctic Anguirus. I've been calling her Anguirice. :tlol: Skar was cool, a real dirtbag, just your solid evil-for-evil's-sake baddie. Fine by me. His spine whip with the crystal tip made the fight scenes with an axe-wielding Kong all the more exciting.

The CGI was great, I loved the color treatment of just about everything, the new environments were beautiful, fun soundtrack, I was thoroughly entertained by all that I saw & heard. It's no Citizen Kane, but boy was it a perfect popcorn flick. Exactly what I would want from an American Godzilla movie, barring the fact that he's hardly in it. :tlol: It's OK, though. This King Kong is so damn likeable.

oldmanwinters

04-30-2024, 08:05 PM

Well said, Powder!

Andrew NDB

05-19-2024, 12:15 AM

Saw it. I expected to hate it like the last couple but it wasn't that bad. They reduced all of the silly, wacky and unbelievable human subplots into pretty much just one plot line which worked well enough. The best parts of the movie are when it's just Kong walking around and figuring out stuff.

I imagine Millie Bobby Brown passed on this movie. Oh well. Though having someone around who can sort of talk to Godzilla actually would've come in handy in the third act.

CyberCubed

05-19-2024, 11:29 AM

I watched this about a week ago on the illegal streaming websites since it was up in HD, and I really liked the movie. But funnily enough it felt more like a Planet of the Apes movie than a King Kong or Godzilla movie. Once Kong was with those other apes in Hollow Earth, I felt like I was watching a completely different film franchise. It was basically just Planet of the Apes at that point.

Godzilla was cool and I don't mind that it took a backseat in this movie. From what I remember I didn't like the previous movie much, so this was an improvement.

Also how many people died in Brazil at the end of the movie? They were crashing through all those buildings at that point and it's obvious not all the people evacuated. These giant monster movies never go into detail the catastrophic death toll that has to take place in all these cities. I mean it's crazy, if something like this happened in real life the entire world would be devastated. But the movie just goes on like it's just some destroyed buildings or something.

Andrew NDB

05-19-2024, 03:44 PM

Or Godzilla ripping through those bridges and you see all the little cars flying around. This is the first time I think we've seen Godzilla knowingly massacring people.

I wonder what they'll do next? We've kind of "seen it all" at this point.

Cowabung-Gal

05-19-2024, 04:02 PM

Or Godzilla ripping through those bridges and you see all the little cars flying around. This is the first time I think we've seen Godzilla knowingly massacring people.

Do you “knowingly massacre” bugs every time you walk on grass?

neatoman

05-19-2024, 04:46 PM

I wonder what they'll do next? We've kind of "seen it all" at this point.

Would you even want another one?

IMJ

05-19-2024, 08:39 PM

I love this monster-universe. It's a series of fun movies with great FX and they dabble into story juuusssst enough that it's smarter than you would have thought going into it. But even with "less plot" they have endless movie potential. Once you establish Godzilla as "the good guy" all you need is a new monster for him to stop.

I think the biggest weakness from these has been the rotating cast of human characters across each flick. If I was Aaron Taylor Johnson I'd have clawed to the franchise as best I could.

Andrew NDB

05-20-2024, 12:07 AM

I think the biggest weakness from these has been the rotating cast of human characters across each flick.

I think they always manage to keep the actors and actresses who actually still want to keep doing these. And now I doubt Taylor Johnson would even do one if they offered him a bunch of money. Though it'd sure be neat to somehow include him in the Monarch series.

Would you even want another one?

Not really. I'd be happy with more "smaller" stories told from the Monarch TV show. Though with The New Empire kind of giving Kong a fairly happy ending if it ends up being one, maybe it's Godzilla's turn now? Son of Godzilla and all that.

Do you “knowingly massacre” bugs every time you walk on grass?

But in the earlier movies he would take steps to actively avoid it, like by the bridge in 2014 and so on. Sure, there's stuff like him getting knocked into buildings probably full of people, but he can't do anything about that. In THIS movie he obviously sees the people driving on the bridge and just plows through them.

IMJ

05-20-2024, 12:21 PM

Johnson will want to come back after they release "Kraven". :lol:

I loved the Monarch show too - I just want these series to continue and I'd take more Monarch as well.

Going back to the actors, they need to "Avengers" it and bring back everyone from the movies into a new one.

oldmanwinters

05-20-2024, 12:52 PM

Going back to the actors, they need to "Avengers" it and bring back everyone from the movies into a new one.

I mean... they have fought before:
https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/when-godzilla-battled-the-avengers-a-history-of-the-epic-crossover

Andrew NDB

05-20-2024, 11:09 PM

I gotta admit, the suplex had my dying. I was like, "Wait... did he just.... bwahahaha!"

Johnson will want to come back after they release "Kraven". :lol:

Absolutely, UNLESS those Bond rumors are true!

Going back to the actors, they need to "Avengers" it and bring back everyone from the movies into a new one.

I mean, there's not that many, really. Taylor Johnson... Millie Bobby Brown. Didn't they kill off the "Let them fight!" Japanese guy already in part 2? It'd be great to see the survivors of Skull Island but it wouldn't work... unless they go into Hollow Earth and get displaced into the present!

Powder

05-21-2024, 03:14 AM

Where is all this good will towards Monarch coming from? I couldn't make it past episode 4. The lead characters in the present time, minus Kurt Russel, are exhausting. So annoying. The FX & general plot beats are fine, & I don't take issue spending that much time with a human cast, genuinely. Just... That main girl is insufferable.

Andrew NDB

05-21-2024, 11:13 AM

Just... That main girl is insufferable.

I liked her except when I didn't. And the "token lesbian" episode was way out of left field. Aside from that, I felt for her plight for the most part, particularly with the dad character.

IMJ

05-21-2024, 12:40 PM

I mean... they have fought before:
https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/when-godzilla-battled-the-avengers-a-history-of-the-epic-crossover

:lol:
When I said "Avengers" it I didn't mean the actual Avengers on-film. I was saying they should bring the casts from the previous Monster-Verse movies together into a new movie.

But yeah, that Godzilla issue has always been a cool one!

Absolutely, UNLESS those Bond rumors are true!

I'd be cool with that. Although I feel that with him as Bond we would be in for something more akin to a Timothy Dalton-era movie than a Craig-Era movie.

Where is all this good will towards Monarch coming from? I couldn't make it past episode 4. The lead characters in the present time, minus Kurt Russel, are exhausting. So annoying. The FX & general plot beats are fine, & I don't take issue spending that much time with a human cast, genuinely. Just... That main girl is insufferable.

I think they did a pretty good job of weaving the various eras into a compelling narrative, and I liked most of the characters and the "hunt for the Dad" added some intrigue.

Probably also helped the show a bit that I couldn't find much else to watch during that period of time so you know.... rose colored lens. I don't know how I'd feel about it the next time I sit through it though.