"The Joker" DCEU movie NOT starring Jared Leto

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/joker-origin-story-in-the-works-at-warner-bros-suicide-squads-jared-leto-will-not-reprise-the-role-a153415

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lSLto3wzWuN9Be/giphy.gif

[TurtleTitan97]

They're planning on making a Joker movie? And it's an origin film???

Good grief. :roll:

[snake]

Why though?

[NinjaPug]

So WB is creating a new DC label for new DC movies set outside the current DCEU? We'll be getting two versions or characters (with different actors) on the screen at the same time? What could go wrong?

[Autbot_Benz]

so is this gonna be Killing Joke the live action movie or what? Wow Martin Scorse is going to be producer on this.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not true.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jared Leto doesn't return (except maybe due to contractual obligations)...

But http://batman-news.com/ isn't carrying this news story so... in the immortal words of Senator Vreenak...

https://angrytechnician.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/its-a-fake.jpg?w=479&h=232

[Autbot_Benz]

Variety broke the story they are pretty credible. Batman-News is just slow.

[NinjaPug]

Yeah every Hollywood trade is reporting this. It's legit.

[plastroncafe]

Guess people finally got fed up with his method-acting shenanigans.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah every Hollywood trade is reporting this. It's legit.

Variety broke the story they are pretty credible. Batman-News is just slow.

You're all right; Batman-News has the story now!

Well, I still don't think this film will actually get made, given WB's astounding DC track record of late. :tlol:

But shoot... my bad, guys. :tsmile:

[Powder]

This is dumb.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I just think it's really sad that Marvel could announce "We're making a Howard the Duck / Squirrel Girl / Hit Monkey movie in 2025" and I'm absolutely believe it...

But WB/DC could tell me "We're making both Batman & Robin and Man of Steel 2: Supergirl in 2020", and I'd probably herniate myself laughing in scornful disbelief.

[MikeandRaph87]

So WB is creating a new DC label for new DC movies set outside the current DCEU? We'll be getting two versions or characters (with different actors) on the screen at the same time? What could go wrong?

What ever happened to that embargo concept that prevented Batman villains from appearing in Justice League as well as forcing Wonder Woman in Aquaman's place in To Another Shore? Not to mention so many examples going back to the Super Friends?

[Jester]

So the company that "Bat-embargoed" Batman characters from the Justice League series because it'd confuse people watching it and The Batman are gonna have 2 dueling cinematic universes? Sure...that makes sense.

Dang...I need to read all of a thread....RAPHANDMIKEY87 GET OUTTA MY HEAD!

[MikeandRaph87]

So the company that "Bat-embargoed" Batman characters from the Justice League series because it'd confuse people watching it and The Batman are gonna have 2 dueling cinematic universes? Sure...that makes sense.

Dang...I need to read all of a thread....RAPHANDMIKEY87 GET OUTTA MY HEAD!

My Bizarro Image loving self would love to.:trazz:

Here is a good question, how many of the several Joker and Harley Quinn related projects will actually happen? Aside from maybe Gotham Sirens I do not see this clownish oversaturation happening. DC or is it Warner Bros. does not know when to stop and likely have been sharing the same LSD bag with Sony.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

My Bizarro Image loving self would love to.:trazz:

Here is a good question, how many of the several Joker and Harley Quinn related projects will actually happen? Aside from maybe Gotham Sirens I do not see this clownish oversaturation happening. DC or is it Warner Bros. does not know when to stop and likely have been sharing the same LSD bag with Sony.

The only movies I believe are happening are Justice League, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman 2.

This is not the way to run a cinematic universe.

[MikeandRaph87]

The only movies I believe are happening are Justice League, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman 2.

This is not the way to run a cinematic universe.

The Batman and Flash seem to be at least at some point in preproduction and determined to get out. The others, I agree. I don't really care about the properties enough aside from where this The Batman project ends up, if only to give a cinematic debut to another Bat Rogue. Aquaman, even if he is a dark haired pirate, I want to see what can be done with him on screen, Aquaman is poster hero of the underrated heroes in all of fiction and utilizing his only two villains at the same time seem to show the production team is going all out.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The Batman and Flash seem to be at least at some point in preproduction and determined to get out. The others, I agree. I don't really care about the properties enough aside from where this The Batman project ends up, if only to give a cinematic debut to another Bat Rogue. Aquaman, even if he is a dark haired pirate, I want to see what can be done with him on screen, Aquaman is poster hero of the underrated heroes in all of fiction and utilizing his only two villains at the same time seem to show the production team is going all out.

Yeah, some shape or form of The Batman will eventually happen, because nothing puts butts in seats more reliably than the ol' Dark Knight. But it may not be in this DCEU.

The Flash... that's had a more troubled production than a cursed play in a Scooby Doo cartoon. :tlol: Not happening unless Ezra Miller WOWS audiences this November. But if he's just okay--or meh--then consider it the final nail in the coffin.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, some shape or form of The Batman will eventually happen, because nothing puts butts in seats more reliably than the ol' Dark Knight. But it may not be in this DCEU.

The Flash... that's had a more troubled production than a cursed play in a Scooby Doo cartoon. :tlol: Not happening unless Ezra Miller WOWS audiences this November. But if he's just okay--or meh--then consider it the final nail in the coffin.

The Flash T.V. show popularity may play into it as well. What will the ratings be a year from now and is it a long-term success of quality story that has made fans for Barry Allen? I honestly do not know as I only watched two season one episodes for Grodd and Captain Cold/Heatwave. It's Wally that had the fun and humor qualities. Seeing Ezra as a comedic relief character strikes me as odd as Barry is supposed to a straight laced guy who has string of bad luck yet one others can look to to trust or idolize such as Wally. Ezra comes off in the little we have seen as a nerdy Wally West.

[Ninjinister]

I feel like Scorsese directing is a hell of a lot more noteworthy than Leto not being in it.


Not true.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jared Leto doesn't return (except maybe due to contractual obligations)...

But http://batman-news.com/ isn't carrying this news story so... in the immortal words of Senator Vreenak...

https://angrytechnician.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/its-a-fake.jpg?w=479&h=232

Really? That is your meter of authenticity?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I feel like Scorsese directing is a hell of a lot more noteworthy than Leto not being in it.




Really? That is your meter of authenticity?

Yep. They don't carry fake stories, and the article Andrew posted came from comicbookmovie.com... I should have checked their source. :tlol:

[ProactiveMan]

WB need to sort out their external comms. I don't know how, but they have to plug the leaks and keep a tighter reign on outgoing communication. If Casey Affleck shoots his mouth of for example, someone has to break his thumbs.

They need to get to a point where they only announce things they can actually deliver on.

[NinjaPug]

I feel like Scorsese directing is a hell of a lot more noteworthy than Leto not being in it.



Scorsese isn't directing it.

[Ninjinister]

Scorsese isn't directing it.

I misread then. My mistake!

[GoldMutant]

What's the point of making a Joker movie without Leto? If that's the case, why bother casting him at all during Suicide Squad? I find it a bit ridiculous.

[DestronMirage22]

I think my response in the Joker/Harley Quinn film thread applies here too:
It's adorable they think the DCCU will last long enough for this to be made. :lol::roll:

[Ninjinister]

What's the point of making a Joker movie without Leto? If that's the case, why bother casting him at all during Suicide Squad? I find it a bit ridiculous.

Well it might make it watchable for one....

[sdp]

Jerome Valeska seems like a good fit for the DCEU

[The Deadman]

Is Leonardo DiCaprio Warner Bros.’ Top Choice for Joker Movie?
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/884499-is-leonardo-dicaprio-warner-bros-top-choice-for-joker-movie#H1PUcX7bTPyij47R.99

[RaphaelinSTL]

Well it might make it watchable for one....

This ^ Among other horrible things in Suicide Squad ... Leto was easily a standout piece of garbage in a rotting landfill.

The whole idea of pre-Joker Joker movie does just seem a little odd, even with some great people behind it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Is Leonardo DiCaprio Warner Bros.’ Top Choice for Joker Movie?
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/884499-is-leonardo-dicaprio-warner-bros-top-choice-for-joker-movie#H1PUcX7bTPyij47R.99

I saw that. I hope they go with someone else, though... I want Leo for Riddler or Hush or somebody of that ilk. A more refined, calculating presence, not the psycho clown.

[MikeandRaph87]

I saw that. I hope they go with someone else, though... I want Leo for Riddler or Hush or somebody of that ilk. A more refined, calculating presence, not the psycho clown.

DC needs to carefully plan and work behind the scenes until it is solid inside announcing a bunch of ideas out of their butt.

I like the idea of Leo as Hush. That actually would make a solid film over what Deathstroke could bring as the central antagonist.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

DC needs to carefully plan and work behind the scenes until it is solid inside announcing a bunch of ideas out of their butt.

I like the idea of Leo as Hush. That actually would make a solid film over what Deathstroke could bring as the central antagonist.

Leo DiCaprio would be an amazing Tommy Elliott. Or Edward Nygma. Heck, he'd probably be a great Roman Sionis, too.

[Andrew NDB]

And Jared Leto is unhappy about this, having his agent go to war about someone other than him playing the Joker:

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/warner-bros-eyeing-leonardo-dicaprio-for-the-joker-origin-story-jared-leto-unhappy-with-studios-plans-a153586

Scorsese: Hey, I want to do a movie for youse guys. With the Joker. And my guy DiCaprio. I don't wanna use your guy, Leto, and I don't want it to be with those other movies of yours.

WB: Wow! No problem, we'll announce a new brand where this is OK!

Leto: Not so fast, ****ers. You got me playing the Joker for your DC shared universe. That makes me look sh***y. What am I, chopped liver?

WB: Er, um. Announcement: the Joker movie is now part of the shared universe!

Scorsese: I don't think so. We had a deal. I do this my way or I walk.

WB: Errr.... eh... the Joker movie is standalone again!

I expect something like that in the days ahead. Followed by the movie quietly dying at some point. No way this gets made.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And Jared Leto is unhappy about this, having his agent go to war about someone other than him playing the Joker:

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/warner-bros-eyeing-leonardo-dicaprio-for-the-joker-origin-story-jared-leto-unhappy-with-studios-plans-a153586

Scorsese: Hey, I want to do a movie for youse guys. With the Joker. And my guy DiCaprio. I don't wanna use your guy, Leto, and I don't want it to be with those other movies of yours.

WB: Wow! No problem, we'll announce a new brand where this is OK!

Leto: Not so fast, ****ers. You got me playing the Joker for your DC shared universe. That makes me look sh***y. What am I, chopped liver?

WB: Er, um. Announcement: the Joker movie is now part of the shared universe!

Scorsese: I don't think so. We had a deal. I do this my way or I walk.

WB: Errr.... eh... the Joker movie is standalone again!

I expect something like that in the days ahead. Followed by the movie quietly dying at some point. No way this gets made.

Of course it will be made! Right after Man of Steel 2 and Green Lantern Corps... :trolleye:

[Katie]

Didn't the DiCaprio thing's original story author admit that they made it up? I honestly don't know why people get so worked up over this sh!t. Its hyperbole put up for clicks.

[sdp]

I would love to be a fly on the wall of WB, a documentary of their handling of DC movies even as far back as Superman Returns should all be fascinating.

[GoldMutant]

Well it might make it watchable for one....

That I can understand.

My point though is this: why remove Leto from this film if you cast him as the Joker in Suicide Squad? Better yet, why even cast him in the first place now? It doesn't make sense to me.
______________________

If Leo were to be Joker, I'd be interested in seeing what he does. Cy pointed this out though: I'd rather he be a different character. I love Leo as an actor, but it depends if they make it work. Origin wise though it seems like an odd move.

[Coola Yagami]

Leto was a horrible Joker... I don't blame him though, I blame whoever came up with his look. I wouldn't want to waste money on an origin story of Leto NotJoker, but if they're doing an origin to a more faithful portrayal of the Joker, then hell yeah, I'm all aboard.

I could care less about the DCCU, it's all a mess anyways.

[Vegita-San]

go home wb. you're drunk..

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/fan-art-heres-what-leonardo-dicaprio-could-look-like-as-the-joker-a153603
ledger, leto, and this guy? what are they doing to this poor character?

[Spike Spiegel]

So are they open to an "Elseworlds" approach with some of these new movies or what?

[Vegita-San]

they are just throwing darts at a dart board and seeing what sticks at this point.

[myconius]

they are just throwing darts at a dart board and seeing what sticks at this point.

close! i was gonna say, WB throws poo at the wall and sees what sticks.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Since this is the same universe as Suicide Squad then it should be Leto, but if they want to do something outside the DCEU, then no problem.

This is one of my issues with an extended/cinematic universe; every movie that comes out has to fit into this established continuity, and if you have a creative idea that doesn't fit (Say, golden age superman, Victorian batman, etc.) you're sore out of luck. I think there should be extended universe films connected to justice league, but independent 'elseworlds' films should be permitted, as well.

[Sumac]

Since this is the same universe as Suicide Squad then it should be Leto, but if they want to do something outside the DCEU, then no problem.

This is one of my issues with an extended/cinematic universe; every movie that comes out has to fit into this established continuity, and if you have a creative idea that doesn't fit (Say, golden age superman, Victorian batman, etc.) you're sore out of luck. I think there should be extended universe films connected to justice league, but independent 'elseworlds' films should be permitted, as well.
The problem is Warners barely can manage DCCU as is, even though it has only 4 movies at the moment. I am not sure, if I can trust them to properly manage both DCCU and "elsewords" at the same time.

[myconius]

i wonder if this multiple live action versions of the Joker would lead WB to do like DC does with the Batman comics?
having like 4 or 5 different Batman titles on the market all with different writers/directors, and none really lining up in a very cohesive continuity, unless they can market it into a cross-over event.

i can see it now.

3 or 4 different live action Batman movie series all with different actors portraying Batman/Bruce Wayne. i mean they already do that with their animated versions of Batman. don't they have simultaneous dvd releases of Batman voiced by Adam West (RIP), Kevin Conroy, Jason O'Mara, and Roger Craig Smith.
i'm probably even missing one or two.

sad thing is, it'd probably actually sell tickets.

[ProphetofGanja]

I would totally watch an animated direct-to-DVD movie or read a comic series about all the different live-action Batmans meeting up and having to team-up, clash of the multiverse-style

[Andrew NDB]

I would totally watch an animated direct-to-DVD movie or read a comic series about all the different live-action Batmans meeting up and having to team-up, clash of the multiverse-style

Everyone else: wow, what a toxic weird comic universe/multiverse thing they got going there. Best just avoid it entirely.

[myconius]

i'd like to see them actually slinging poo at the wall, pitching for ideas.


....bet they do really that too!
it'd explain a LOT!

[Andrew NDB]

Just when you thought it was dead...

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/joaquin-phoenix-in-talks-to-play-the-joker-in-todd-phillips-standalone-dc-movie-a157726

[NinjaPug]

I forgot this was even in development.

Normally I'd say there is no chance Phoenix ends up doing this but since this is just a standalone movie with minimal CGI I think this deal might actually get done.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just when you thought it was dead...

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/joaquin-phoenix-in-talks-to-play-the-joker-in-todd-phillips-standalone-dc-movie-a157726

Give a year or two, it will eventually be DOA. Same as Lobo.

Or... sad to say... Man of Steel 2. :tgrumble:

[Shark_Blade]

So Jared Leto really not coming back huh. Well considering his scenes were butchered, I'm not surprised.

[Coola Yagami]

So Jared Leto really not coming back huh. Well considering his scenes were butchered, I'm not surprised.

No big loss. He wasn't really the Joker anyway.

[The Deadman]

Jared Leto’s Joker is Getting His Own Film
http://bloody-disgusting.com/comics/3502528/jared-letos-joker-getting-film/

[TurtleTitan97]

I can hardly contain my excitement. /s

[Powder]

Doubt it will actually come to fruition, but I'd peep it.

[Autbot_Benz]

christ and people wonder why DC is so behind compared to marvel in movies. "facepalm"

[NinjaPug]

So we've got 3 different Joker movies in development but we can't get any movement on a proper Man of Steel sequel?

At least we've got movies for Shazam and Aquabro coming too.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Do a take on Mad Love, Killing Joke, or Death in the Family, and I'm there.

[Shark_Blade]

I’d check it tbh. Hope Harley’s still in it too.Do a take on Mad Love, Killing Joke, or Death in the Family, and I'm there.

Yes. YESSSSS.

Wait, all of those has already been animated into series/toon movie. But sure, make it a live action with a twist.

[ProphetofGanja]

Jared Leto’s Joker is Getting His Own Film
http://bloody-disgusting.com/comics/3502528/jared-letos-joker-getting-film/

http://i.imgur.com/BfOqA.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I’d check it tbh. Hope Harley’s still in it too.

Yes. YESSSSS.

Wait, all of those has already been animated into series/toon movie. But sure, make it a live action with a twist.

Shouldn't be a direct adaptation. Just redo the main gist of the story... Joker corrupting Dr. Quinzel, crippling Barbara and targeting the Gordon family, or killing the second Robin, Jason Todd.

Hell, mix all three elements into one big Joker rampage.

[ProphetofGanja]

Shouldn't be a direct adaptation. Just redo the main gist of the story... Joker corrupting Dr. Quinzel, crippling Barbara and targeting the Gordon family, or killing the second Robin, Jason Todd.

Hell, mix all three elements into one big Joker rampage.

See, all of that sounds good until you remember how f#cked the DCEU's Joker is.

"OoOoOoOo, he's got facial tattoos, so edgy!"

Spare me.

[sdp]

DC is a joke.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

See, all of that sounds good until you remember how f#cked the DCEU's Joker is.

"OoOoOoOo, he's got facial tattoos, so edgy!"

Spare me.

Buried under the dumb edginess and poor script, there was a good Joker in Leto. Maybe his portrayal will improve; maybe a director will rein him in.

[Powder]

Buried under the dumb edginess and poor script, there was a good Joker in Leto.

I agree, & I'm not even a big fan of his, I just feel there's lots of potential.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I agree, & I'm not even a big fan of his, I just feel there's lots of potential.

The only other thing I've seen him in that I can think of is Dallas Buyers Club. Oh, and the Blade Runner reboot/sequel thing.

[ProphetofGanja]

I mean, yeah, Jared Leto is supposedly a decent actor, and I agree that if the producers/studio executives behind Suicide Squad hadn't been pursuing a Spencer's Gifts aesthetic/attitude then maybe he could've done something interesting with the role, but we could talk hypotheticals all day long and in my opinion the Joker we got is just not worth seeing again.

But hey, I'd love to be surprised.

[Sumac]

So we've got 3 different Joker movies in development but we can't get any movement on a proper Man of Steel sequel?

At least we've got movies for Shazam and Aquabro coming too.
Man of Steel? They can't make a Batman movie! And he is the main cashcow of the DC and, arguably, THE MOST popular superhero ever.

[Coola Yagami]

Jared Leto version? I'll just RedBox it. Maybe. Or have someone RedBox for me.

[plastroncafe]

My condolences go out to anyone who has to share a set with Leto, because that chuckle**** actually buys into the whole Method Acting crapfest.

[Candy Kappa]

Of all the Joker performances out there, Leto's sure was one. I hope we never see another adaptation of Killing Joke

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Of all the Joker performances out there, Leto's sure was one. I hope we never see another adaptation of Killing Joke

A straight 1-1 adaptation, not really interested. Cherrypicking some of the elements, I'm all for.

[Andrew NDB]

We haven't even seen him play the Joker yet. As much hubbub was made about him in SS, all he was was basically Harley's backstory and foil. He wasn't bad, but it was barely a realized part.

[MikeandRaph87]

Warner Bros. is actually going through with this idea of a Joker origin film without Jared Leto.

http://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/06/16/joker-origin-movie-filming-location-start-date/

[Andrew NDB]

Warner Bros. is actually going through with this idea of a Joker origin film without Jared Leto.

http://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/06/16/joker-origin-movie-filming-location-start-date/

Well... WHILE simultaneously making a separate one WITH him.

[Shark_Blade]

They must be high on crack when making these “brilliant” decisions.

[Sumac]

I really hope that someday, maybe 10 years later after all of this mess, after comic book movies will go out of fashion, someone will make a comprehensive documentary, a book or a movie, just to describe what the **** was going on in the DC offices at the time.

Because, no matter how I look at it, this might make one hell of a better story than their movies.

[Andrew NDB]

I really hope that someday, maybe 10 years later after all of this mess, after comic book movies will go out of fashion, someone will make a comprehensive documentary, a book or a movie, just to describe what the **** was going on in the DC offices at the time.

Because, no matter how I look at it, this might make one hell of a better story than their movies.

The whole lot of them are probably NDAed up the ying-yang. I'm surprised there's even a "Superman Lives" documentary with some decent dirt... but I'm sure they shored up things since then.

[Autbot_Benz]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/alec-baldwin-joins-joker-movie-as-bruce-waynes-father-1137843?utm_source=twitter

Alec Baldwin to play Thomas Wayne

[ZariusTwo]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/alec-baldwin-joins-joker-movie-as-bruce-waynes-father-1137843?utm_source=twitter

Alec Baldwin to play Thomas Wayne

Alec Baldwin pulls out

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2018/08/29/alec-baldwin-drops-thomas-wayne-role-joker-movie-exclusive/1136678002/

[Jester]

Alec Baldwin pulls out
https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpMhVjTvjX5nLs4/giphy.gif

[Andrew NDB]

I was going to make a Kim Basinger joke but stopped myself.

[Andrew NDB]

Pics from filming out today:
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/joker/joaquin-phoenix-laughs-maniacally-as-filming-gets-underway-on-his-standalone-joker-movie-a163564

Still surprised this is actually happening.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So a lot's come out on this recently...

What do you guys think of Phoenix's look as the Joker?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/joker/a-closer-look-at-joker-set-photos-reveals-a-surprising-detail-is-the-clown-prince-of-crime-the-movies-hero-a163710

I think visually it looks pretty great.

Still a bizarre choice of movie to make. Doesn't help the shared universe at best, actively hurts it at worst.

https://i.gifer.com/7AUX.gif

[Andrew NDB]

I think we lost some posts in this thread. Unless I'm trippin'.


Still a bizarre choice of movie to make. Doesn't help the shared universe at best, actively hurts it at worst.

https://i.gifer.com/7AUX.gif

Yeah, exactly. And plus there are like zero Joker fans out there clamoring for a big Joker origin story. Who is this for, and what does it serve? Also, what happened to Martin Scorsese's name on it as producer? It's vanished.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think we lost some posts in this thread. Unless I'm trippin'.



Yeah, exactly. And plus there are like zero Joker fans out there clamoring for a big Joker origin story. Who is this for, and what does it serve? Also, what happened to Martin Scorsese's name on it as producer? It's vanished.

I think it's just cynical damage control.

"We have a big actor, playing a character audiences LOVE to see, and we'll make money off a cheaper budget!"

Does it help them in the long run? Not a damn bit. But it gives them a film that maybe critics DON'T rip apart in reviews, so... they count that as a win, I guess.

But hey, we're getting a black Black Canary (inspired by Fox's Domino in Deadpool 2? Surely not!) and a 12-year-old Cassandra Cain (inspired by Fox's Laura in Logan? Surely not!)

Maybe I'm just cynical.

[Autbot_Benz]

I think we lost some posts in this thread. Unless I'm trippin'.

same for the Birds of Prey thread. maybe the mods played clean up while the site was down

[Cure]

Or maybe the posts didn't get backed up before the site went down. Literally no one had access. No need to try to villify people.

[Leo656]

What do you guys think of Phoenix's look as the Joker?



Looks weird. Not a fan. On the one hand, they're clearly trying to copy Ledger's version since it was "universally" acclaimed. On the other hand, I don't like the makeup. Too "generic circus clown". I get that the very first thing everyone does when they sit down to make these things is ask, "How can we make it different this time?" (which I really wish they'd STOP doing). But on the other side... Joker's not difficult to do. Everybody knows what he looks like.

Movie could be interesting, but I'm in agreement with others who say that this movie's existence doesn't really do anything for anyone. If it does well, it sabotages all the other Joker-related films in development, with the "Bonus" of confusing the casual audience. If it does poorly, it's more egg on WB's face. Actual upside? I'm not sure.

The fact that they cast Phoenix, a good actor who critics adore but casual movie-goers have never cared about, tells me that they're simply trying to do a "for the critics" movie. Phoenix isn't the guy you put in a lead role if you want a billion dollars, he's the guy you cast when you want people who hate these kinds of movies to talk about them like more than overblown cartoons.

I don't even think WB is aiming for a billion with this one, but that's the arbitrary number you "have" to hit with these things now, otherwise the internet tells you that you f*cked up and shouldn't have bothered. So I'unno. I'll probably see it but I'm not in love with anything so far.

"Clay Pigeons" is a really good movie, though.

[Andrew NDB]

Remember, it's a 1980s period piece, too. Because... reasons.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Looks weird. Not a fan. On the one hand, they're clearly trying to copy Ledger's version since it was "universally" acclaimed. On the other hand, I don't like the makeup. Too "generic circus clown". I get that the very first thing everyone does when they sit down to make these things is ask, "How can we make it different this time?" (which I really wish they'd STOP doing). But on the other side... Joker's not difficult to do. Everybody knows what he looks like.

Movie could be interesting, but I'm in agreement with others who say that this movie's existence doesn't really do anything for anyone. If it does well, it sabotages all the other Joker-related films in development, with the "Bonus" of confusing the casual audience. If it does poorly, it's more egg on WB's face. Actual upside? I'm not sure.

The fact that they cast Phoenix, a good actor who critics adore but casual movie-goers have never cared about, tells me that they're simply trying to do a "for the critics" movie. Phoenix isn't the guy you put in a lead role if you want a billion dollars, he's the guy you cast when you want people who hate these kinds of movies to talk about them like more than overblown cartoons.

I don't even think WB is aiming for a billion with this one, but that's the arbitrary number you "have" to hit with these things now, otherwise the internet tells you that you f*cked up and shouldn't have bothered. So I'unno. I'll probably see it but I'm not in love with anything so far.

"Clay Pigeons" is a really good movie, though.

The last thing I remember hearing he was in was "Her." Didn't bother seeing it. Other than that... I got no clue what the guy's done.

[Leo656]

I'm telling ya, man. "Clay Pigeons". Phoenix, Vince Vaughn pre-Dunkin' Donuts addiction, Janeane Garofalo before she became insufferable... it's a great, weird, quirky little dark comedy about murder and intrigue in a small town.

To this day, I randomly yell out "You SET YOURSELF UP GOD DAMMIT!!!!" at random and nobody but my wife gets it. Because I'm pretty sure we're two out of five people who've seen "Clay Pigeons".

But yeah, I think you'd get a kick out of that flick. A buried treasure of the late-90s. Check it out. "C'mon, now, fishin' buddyyyyyyyy!" :tgrin:

[Leo656]

I had to go back like 10 pages to find this thread, but I saw this lovely article today and found it particularly relevant:

From the "Nobody Knows What They're Doing" Dept.:
https://screenrant.com/joker-zazie-beetz-script-rewritten-filming/

Essentially, there was a script... But it's not the movie. Most scenes were apparently written as they filmed, sometimes the day of. :roll:

An astute commenter pointed out that that's exactly how we got the Super Mario Bros. Movie. :lol:

Ah well. I had zero hope for this anyway.

[AT-Man]

Remember, it's a 1980s period piece, too. Because... reasons.

This time they want that costume design Oscar.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I had to go back like 10 pages to find this thread, but I saw this lovely article today and found it particularly relevant:

From the "Nobody Knows What They're Doing" Dept.:
https://screenrant.com/joker-zazie-beetz-script-rewritten-filming/

Essentially, there was a script... But it's not the movie. Most scenes were apparently written as they filmed, sometimes the day of. :roll:

An astute commenter pointed out that that's exactly how we got the Super Mario Bros. Movie. :lol:

Ah well. I had zero hope for this anyway.

They probably kept rewriting it to be more critical of Trump, mirror current events, yadda yadda yadda.

Because when I watch a Batman movie that doesn't actually have any Batman, I really want it to be morality piece criticizing the POTUS.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I go along with the rumors going around that this guy in the movie isn't the joker we know, but rather inspires the Joker who later fights Batman. We see a whole bunch of clown villains in the trailers. Phoenix could simply be the first joker, predating Batman's foe, who inspires others.

Also tying in with this movie, I have long wondered if there wasn't just one joker, but they are kind of like an anarchist organization that terrorizes Gotham. Think about how Joker seemed to always cheat death when fighting batman; when one dies, who says he is not replaced by another? The red hood one (Jack Napier, if you believe it) that fell into the toxic chemicals was only one joker. Some have face paint, some have skin tattoos, and some are surgically altered. Harley and the other bat-villains either don't realize the change, or just go along with it. Who knows if batman is aware, either?

[sdp]

I go along with the rumors going around that this guy in the movie isn't the joker we know, but rather inspires the Joker who later fights Batman. We see a whole bunch of clown villains in the trailers. Phoenix could simply be the first joker, predating Batman's foe, who inspires others.

Also tying in with this movie, I have long wondered if there wasn't just one joker, but the were kind of like an anarchist organization that terrorizes Gotham. Think about how Joker seemed to always cheat death when fighting batman; when one dies, who says he is not replaced by another? The red hood one (Jack Napier, if you believe it) that fell into the toxic chemicals was only one joke. some have face paint, some have skin tattoos, and some are surgically altered. Harley and the other bat-villains either don't realize the change, or just go along with it. Who knows if batman is aware, either?

In one of the recent DC reboots from like 3 years ago or so; the comics played with this idea that there were 3 different people who had operated as Joker and everyone thought it had been the same one. Sadly DC lost me quickly on that reboot since it went nowhere and wasn't patient, I'm not sure how well they followed that through but I'm guessing they didn't. I think it was that reboot where they were merging with Watchmen, still don't know what happened with that, I'm guessing nothing since I haven't read anything about it and that would've been big news.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

In one of the recent DC reboots from like 3 years ago or so; the comics played with this idea that there were 3 different people who had operated as Joker and everyone thought it had been the same one. Sadly DC lost me quickly on that reboot since it went nowhere and wasn't patient, I'm not sure how well they followed that through but I'm guessing they didn't. I think it was that reboot where they were merging with Watchmen, still don't know what happened with that, I'm guessing nothing since I haven't read anything about it and that would've been big news.

Yeah, we're still waiting on the "3 Jokers" story...

[Andrew NDB]

I still just want to know what happened to Martin Scorsese's involvement on this.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I still just want to know what happened to Martin Scorsese's involvement on this.

Wait, is he no longer involved?

[AquaParade]

I still just want to know what happened to Martin Scorsese's involvement on this.

Yeah, I don't know how the industry truly works, but it seemed like some people behind the scenes were interested in getting him more involved, and therefor were dropping his name around behind the scenes, to gain traction for this project.

That's just my best guess based on the evidence.

If it's the case, I'm not mad at all. Whatever it takes to get a Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie off the ground. Probably my most anticipated movie right now, at least until the Endgame marketing swells and carries me away like a twig.

Which also means I'm a bit nervous for the film. I can really see this going either way.

[Andrew NDB]

Wait, is he no longer involved?

I mean, you don't see his name anywhere on the movie anymore. Not in interviews, not on the IMDB, not anywhere.

Yet we go back to August of 2017, he was attached as producer:
https://www.indiewire.com/2017/08/joker-origin-story-movie-martin-scorsese-todd-phillips-1201868891/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I mean, you don't see his name anywhere on the movie anymore. Not in interviews, not on the IMDB, not anywhere.

Yet we go back to August of 2017, he was attached as producer:
https://www.indiewire.com/2017/08/joker-origin-story-movie-martin-scorsese-todd-phillips-1201868891/

Huh. Damned if you aren't right. I completely overlooked how his name just kinda dropped out.

Wasn't he one of the main guys responsible for this even getting off the ground?

[Andrew NDB]

Huh. Damned if you aren't right. I completely overlooked how his name just kinda dropped out.

Wasn't he one of the main guys responsible for this even getting off the ground?

Apparently. I just know there's an interesting story here we're not getting. Like Scorsese butting heads with Geoff Johns or something... I wanna know!

[Leo656]

I'm sure this is gonna be one of those "Entertaining, but not 'good'" types of movies.

Phoenix is always fun to watch, but much of what I've heard hasn't thrilled me. Especially hearing about how much of it was "scripted" in the make-up chair right before they filmed it.

[Andrew NDB]

I feel like this is going to feel something like a Wes Anderson film... but with a "look how topical we are!" anti-Trump sentiment.

[Leo656]

I'm also getting a vibe that this movie is gonna be like the TellTale Batman games, and paint Thomas Wayne in a... shall we say "less than flattering" portrayal, based on what I've read so far.

I understand that "Attacking the 1%" is gonna be a big theme of this movie, but I'm never a fan of any media which makes Thomas Wayne an asshole or a criminal scumbag just to fit their story. That was my biggest problem with the TellTale games, which I mostly enjoyed, but they made Bruce's Dad just as horrible - if not worse - than most of the people Bruce fights as Batman. And I'm not okay with that. Loved the games, hated some of the plot. So I hope that's not what's gonna happen here, although I've heard that Thomas is gonna kinda be "Trump-like" in this, which is... not promising.

I'unno, this is like the goddamn weirdest thing I've ever seen take shape.

[Andrew NDB]

I understand that "Attacking the 1%" is gonna be a big theme of this movie

Which seems odd to me. Wasn't that the whole underlying theme of "The Dark Knight Rises"?

[Leo656]

Yeah, but it apparently never gets old. :lol:

Plus, as much as fans whine about wanting "original" things, they really don't. I mean, Thanos and his "wonderful" plan was just Ra's al Ghul on steroids (and neither's plan was particularly well thought-out, or had any chance of working aaaaanyways), but people get mad if you point it out. :trazz:

Anyway, whining about the Evil Rich will apparently be in style forever. And it's absolutely what we all wanna see in a movie about the Joker. Right? :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah, but it apparently never gets old. :lol:

Plus, as much as fans whine about wanting "original" things, they really don't. I mean, Thanos and his "wonderful" plan was just Ra's al Ghul on steroids (and neither's plan was particularly well thought-out, or had any chance of working aaaaanyways), but people get mad if you point it out. :trazz:

Anyway, whining about the Evil Rich will apparently be in style forever. And it's absolutely what we all wanna see in a movie about the Joker. Right? :lol:

Absolutely. Gimme some politics and economics in my DCEU movie, that'll get me hard. :tlol:

[Leo656]

Well, to be fair, you know me, you know that I'm alright with some'a that. I just feel that we don't necessarily need it to overwhelm everything else.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Well, to be fair, you know me, you know that I'm alright with some'a that. I just feel that we don't necessarily need it to overwhelm everything else.

To be fair as well, I don't mind it either. But when the entire point of a Joker movie seems to be "screw Trump"... that's just a really weird curve ball.

I don't think this film will be THAT exaggerated, but I do think it'll be more heavy-handed than my willing suspension of disbelief will find enjoyable.

[Leo656]

I'm more concerned with how much of a hyper-defensive overreaction it is, and why we "need" it.

"So... for you people who just HATED Leto and won't let it go... HERE! A totally different 'Joker' movie! Granted, it looks very little like 'The Joker' and more like someone's Party City Heath Ledger Cosplay... and it doesn't have anything at all to do with anything else... and it's absolutely going to confuse and divide the casual audience who don't understand why This One and That One have nothing to do with each other, or why this is set in the 80s... BUT HEY, he doesn't have those barely-visible tattoos y'all are still whining about three years later, so... THIS ONE'S FOR ALL'A YOU'S!"

I mean, it is what it is, but... it's weird.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm more concerned with how much of a hyper-defensive overreaction it is, and why we "need" it.

"So... for you people who just HATED Leto and won't let it go... HERE! A totally different 'Joker' movie! Granted, it looks very little like 'The Joker' and more like someone's Party City Heath Ledger Cosplay... and it doesn't have anything at all to do with anything else... and it's absolutely going to confuse and divide the casual audience who don't understand why This One and That One have nothing to do with each other, or why this is set in the 80s... BUT HEY, he doesn't have those barely-visible tattoos y'all are still whining about three years later, so... THIS ONE'S FOR ALL'A YOU'S!"

I mean, it is what it is, but... it's weird.

It's very weird. It feels more like art or a political statement than an actual movie, you know? Like the Comic Book Movie version of Oscarbait.

And it doesn't do anything good for the rest of the franchise if it succeeds, but it hurts if it fails.

Really, this movie doesn't make sense to me at all. I'll still Redbox it, though.

[Leo656]

And it doesn't do anything good for the rest of the franchise if it succeeds, but it hurts if it fails.


Yeah. Very little upside for anyone who isn't Phoenix, who hasn't been in a movie anyone's actually watched in a while.

Although anyone who still hasn't watched "Clay Pigeons" needs to eat all the dicks, immediately.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah. Very little upside for anyone who isn't Phoenix, who hasn't been in a movie anyone's actually watched in a while.

Although anyone who still hasn't watched "Clay Pigeons" needs to eat all the dicks, immediately.

I did! It was interesting. Definitely fun seeing Vince Vaughn not be his typical self. :tlol:

[Leo656]

Y'mean "not a bloated sack of half-funny crap?" :lol:

"What, Mama Lester din't love yew?"
"DON'T LOWER YOURSELF!!! DON'T LOWER IT!!!" :lol:

I'm thrilled, let's rap about it in the DF. I f*cking love that movie. Along with the song "Time Bomb" by Old 97s. Good sh*t.

[Autbot_Benz]

Word on the street is the first Joker trailer will be out with Shazam.

[Andrew NDB]

It's very weird. It feels more like art or a political statement than an actual movie, you know? Like the Comic Book Movie version of Oscarbait.

And it doesn't do anything good for the rest of the franchise if it succeeds, but it hurts if it fails.

Really, this movie doesn't make sense to me at all. I'll still Redbox it, though.

All of this.

Unless the rumors about "The Batman" being set in the 90s are true... then "The Joker" could be a prequel to it.

Come to think of it... WW 1984 also...? Hm... all of these things coincidences?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

All of this.

Unless the rumors about "The Batman" being set in the 90s are true... then "The Joker" could be a prequel to it.

Come to think of it... WW 1984 also...? Hm... all of these things coincidences?

I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman 84 and the Joker time periods are both primarily the choices of the directors involved (Jenkins and whoever). Coincidence, driven by the stories they wanted to tell.

Whereas, anything that comes after and is "period"... well, then it's no longer coincidence.

[Leo656]

Is it "too soon" to say that I'm entirely sick of comic book films being period pieces?

It made sense for Wonder Woman the first time. It could have made sense for "X-Men: First Class", but it ultimately hurt that franchise much more than it helped. And it's been completely pointless every time since.

BUT, it's set in the 80s, so this movie is sure to have some very topical jokes at the expense of Donald Trump (or his stand-in, probably Thomas Wayne I guess). Yay? :roll:

Seriously. This sh*t is stupid. I like period films but this new gimmick of every super-hero film being one is dumb.

[snake]

But...but....REMEMBER THE 90sssssss?


MEMBER NIRVANA

MEMBER BLOCKBUSTER

MEMBER GARBAGE

MEMBER BRIGHT COLORS

MEMBER RADIOSHAAAAAAAACK

[Leo656]

MEMBER GARBAGE


...Is what people 20 years from now are gonna be saying about the current slate of comic book films. :trazz:

[snake]

When people start becoming nostalgic for 2013-2019, I think it'll be officially time to throw in the towel.

I can't wait for the college film studies on why Suicide Squad was truly ahead of it's time and an underappreciated masterpiece.

[AquaParade]

Is it "too soon" to say that I'm entirely sick of comic book films being period pieces?

It made sense for Wonder Woman the first time. It could have made sense for "X-Men: First Class", but it ultimately hurt that franchise much more than it helped. And it's been completely pointless every time since.

BUT, it's set in the 80s, so this movie is sure to have some very topical jokes at the expense of Donald Trump (or his stand-in, probably Thomas Wayne I guess). Yay? :roll:

Seriously. This sh*t is stupid. I like period films but this new gimmick of every super-hero film being one is dumb.

I really like it, when done tastefully. In fact, I’d love to see TMNT be set in the 80’s.

I get it though. Sometimes it can feel forced.

[snake]

You're going to be shocked, but that already happened.


It's called TMNT (1991).

[Leo656]

When people start becoming nostalgic for 2013-2019, I think it'll be officially time to throw in the towel.

I can't wait for the college film studies on why Suicide Squad was truly ahead of it's time and an underappreciated masterpiece.

:lol: I'unno about "masterpiece", but I do think it's a case of some people expecting way too much out of an ensemble movie about C-list super-villains.

Literally every criticism of it just as well applies to stuff like "The Expendables", and yet, we don't do that. I'unno, it was Exactly The Movie I Expected It To Be. "Just An Action Flick". I give it a solid B. Definitely worse ways to pass an afternoon, and the cast was good. When I like the cast I generally can forgive a lot, elsewhere.

I don't think Joker needed to be in it at all, and it would probably be a better movie without him, but that's why I'm not in charge of these things. :lol: I liked Leto's performance, I just don't think his presence really did much more except explain who Harley was, and that he altogether just cluttered the movie needlessly. But again, not my call.

[snake]

I'm being factitious, mostly. I personally thought Suicide Squad was a hot, steaming bowl of sh*t. Half of my problems with it come with the presentation and not with the script, though. What a weird, tacky-ass looking movie.

[Leo656]

If a movie ever "looked like it needed a shower", it was that one. :lol:

[snake]

Suicide Squad and Venom are really just ultra-meta experimental films that play with the idea of making a movie from 2004 and releasing it in present day to see if anyone notices.

They had to remove the Limp Bizkit soundtrack from Suicide Squad, though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Suicide Squad and Venom are really just ultra-meta experimental films that play with the idea of making a movie from 2004 and releasing it in present day to see if anyone notices.

They had to remove the Limp Bizkit soundtrack from Suicide Squad, though.

:tlol: :tlol: :tlol: :tlol:

Is it "too soon" to say that I'm entirely sick of comic book films being period pieces?

It made sense for Wonder Woman the first time. It could have made sense for "X-Men: First Class", but it ultimately hurt that franchise much more than it helped. And it's been completely pointless every time since.

BUT, it's set in the 80s, so this movie is sure to have some very topical jokes at the expense of Donald Trump (or his stand-in, probably Thomas Wayne I guess). Yay? :roll:

Seriously. This sh*t is stupid. I like period films but this new gimmick of every super-hero film being one is dumb.

I'm with you. Sick of the gimmick. Once X-Men Apocalypse decided "hey, 80's!" was when I think I realized the period shtick wasn't gonna stop.

[Leo656]

I don't think Apocalypse is as bad as people say, but holy sh*t, not memorable at all. Which I guess is "bad" to some people.

Given what a big deal Apocalypse is, the fact that his movie could be described as "completely forgettable" is pretty damning.

And there was no reason at all for that movie to be set in the 80s. Other than that joke about Star Wars movies, it was completely pointless. Which is to say, It Was Completely Pointless.

[sdp]

I read an interview that pretty much sounded like Wonder Woman 198X was "the same wonder woman but in a way it's an unrelated story to the one we know, it's a new wonder woman". It really does seem they want to go the anthology way with their DC movies from now on, that way they can change actors, settings, mess continuity. It's the whole Worlds of DC initiative they mentioned last summer at SDCC

[snake]

What's even the point? Sounds lazy and stupid. Unless you're doing an elseworlds story, you shouldn't have sh*t be in continuity hell. God, it's part of the appeal to why people even get into comic universes in the first place. The MCU would not be so successful without the "universe" part of it. It's literally not that hard to make things fit in with each other.

[sdp]

A loose continuity might be the best option for DC at this point, the DCEU is a sham, how do you even continue that? DC also doesn't want to reboot it after WW and now Aquaman did well. Doing it this way they can salvage stuff from the DCEU project that failed, they can make new movies in different directions that might work, aren't restricted by continuity or actors. I might be able to get in on this if they do it right, but that's a big if since this is DC after all. I mean it worked for their animated movies that they do.

[Leo656]

They literally only have to recast Batman. They shouldn't have gotten themselves painted into that corner to begin with, but once they do that, Everything's Fine.

They're never gonna find a better Superman than Cavill, and he's proven that he can perform the character well regardless of who's directing him, so they need to stop goofing around and get him locked in, as well. CGI upper lip aside, he was one of the only things about Justice League that popped.

Re-cast Batman, lock in Cavill, and figure out what the hell to do with Green Lantern. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater isn't a good plan. "To Hell with Continuity" didn't work for them in the comics with the stupid "DCYOU" initiative. They just need to tidy up, not burn the house down.

[Autbot_Benz]

Joker Trailer/teaser Trailer on wednesday

[Andrew NDB]

lock in Cavill

Lock him into what? Cameos in this or that? They've shown 0 interest in making an actual new Superman movie.

[AquaParade]

Joker Trailer/teaser Trailer on wednesday

I can't wait. Man, between Endgame, Spider-Man FFH, and The Joker, I feel absolutely spoiled.

[Leo656]

Lock him into what? Cameos in this or that? They've shown 0 interest in making an actual new Superman movie.

That will change eventually.

When they do decide to make it a priority, it's not like they're going to commission an entirely new script and start from scratch, because that's not how these things are done. They'll pull an old script out of a drawer and puff it up a bit to make it fit better with what they're doing now. And they have millions of Superman scripts in that drawer. They could have it ready for pre-production by the end of this year if they wanted. Just hypothetically speaking.

We've seen how fast things (and priorities) can change. Bottom line, it took them decades to find a good Superman (most people don't want to do it), so they'd be stupid to shove him out the door and start over. He wants to do it, they just need to come to terms. Letting him go would be extremely foolish. Replacing him could easily take another 10-15 years.

[ZariusTwo]

rgrWXTz_8eU

[Powder]

Looks like a decent flick, at least in terms of Phoenix putting in a compelling performance, anyway. Doesn't give me any actual "Joker" vibes whatsoever, but I'm not into Batman/DC at all, so maybe it's nailing the vibes of some iteration I'm not privy to.

I'd putlocker that ish in a year, sure.

[AquaParade]

I absolutely adore the trailer. If the film can live up to this small preview, it’ll likely be my favorite film this year.

[Andrew NDB]

Phoenix will save the movie. I just hope they go a little light on the "I Hate Trump™: The Movie" stuff.

[AquaParade]

That shot near the end of the trailer, of Joker dancing on the steps, just slays me. I don't want to start comparing already, but it reminds me a bit of the Jack Nicholson Joker, with that pep and pazaz. Though, like I said, I don't want to try and peg this version of the character down already.

And how about that shot of him leaning him against the glass and asking "...what?". Chilling delivery there.

Or the shot where his naked back is to the camera and we can see he is hunching over, working on something. The physicality almost looks unreal.

Add that swelling music on top, giving the hint that this really could be some type of sad, but beautiful, tragic film, and I'm completely, 100% sold on this trailer.

Now, we all know trailers can be deceptive. The film could end up as trash, who knows. But at this point, I can't help but be very excited. If I had to choose to see this, Endgame, or Spider-Man FFH, right now, the answer would be The Joker, easily.

[Autbot_Benz]

oooh the movie looks interesting I might see this.

[oldmanwinters]

I just hope they go a little light on the "I Hate Trump™: The Movie" stuff.

Hasn't that one already been remade recently? :tlol:

[AquaParade]

Phoenix will save the movie. I just hope they go a little light on the "I Hate Trump™: The Movie" stuff.

I don't know. Joaquin said the only reason he took the role was because he was so impressed with the script and Todd Phillips' vision. The cinematography looks really nice, and the musical score could also be pretty effective in a film like this.

Todd Phillips has yet to make a great film, but other then that, this has a lot going for it, and I think it's a bit much to already claim that it needs to be saved by Joaquin Phoenix, although he is certainly the main attraction here.

[AT-Man]

Looks like it might even be great.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't know. Joaquin said the only reason he took the role was because he was so impressed with the script and Todd Phillips' vision.

Of course he would (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/08/joaquin-phoenix-there-was-a-period-when-i-wanted-out-i-wanted-my-life-back). Trump is "evil," according to him, and this is the big "why Trump is evil" thing. With a Joker wrapper around it.

The cinematography looks really nice, and the musical score could also be pretty effective in a film like this.

Todd Phillips has yet to make a great film, but other then that, this has a lot going for it, and I think it's a bit much to already claim that it needs to be saved by Joaquin Phoenix, although he is certainly the main attraction here.

If you're someone who hates Trump or is an AOC fan, then it has a lot going for it. For me, I'm skeptical of a thing that is -- reportedly -- motivated by a specific political agenda, vs. "I have a great creative vision for a Joker movie."

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Trailer looks decent, but I still hate the very idea of this movie. Won't support the film with my money, but I'll rent it for free eventually.

[RaphaelinSTL]

I haven't been this excited for a "DC Comics" movie in years. **** me, this trailer is so good.

[snake]

Looks awesome. It’s kind of weird to even think this is happening, but I guess it is.

[Andrew NDB]

Imagine, like back when Man of Steel came out, when they told us they were making a big universe of movies to come. Now imagine that 6 years later there was never a Superman 2, and not even a Batman 1, but we've gotten Suicide Squad and a Joker movie. And Aquaman and Shazam.

Crazy...

[snake]

The state of DC’s cinematic universe is upsetting as f*ck, because if done properly- they could literally compete with Marvel. They have the characters, they have a different tone, they have the history. They just can’t get their sh*t together. Imagine: a world where the annual Justice League and Avengers movies are anticipated equally.


The hype for a Crisis event movie would ideally be bigger than even Infinity War.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Imagine, like back when Man of Steel came out, when they told us they were making a big universe of movies to come. Now imagine that 6 years later there was never a Superman 2, and not even a Batman 1, but we've gotten Suicide Squad and a Joker movie. And Aquaman and Shazam.

Crazy...

Man, we've gotten TWO Suicide Squad movies. That second one is gonna happen. :tlol:

It's the most frustrating $hit ever. Fox's X-Men problems have never reached this level of WTFery.

The state of DC’s cinematic universe is upsetting as f*ck, because if done properly- they could literally compete with Marvel. They have the characters, they have a different tone, they have the history. They just can’t get their sh*t together. Imagine: a world where the annual Justice League and Avengers movies are anticipated equally.

The hype for a Crisis event movie would ideally be bigger than even Infinity War.

Somebody really needs to be pulled off everything else, given the role of "DC Kevin Feige", and told "make us some goddamn good CBMs. You've got the blank check, we'll stop interfering, make us legitimate in the fans' eyes."

At this point, maybe WB should start passing a collection plate to bring back Christopher Nolan. Maybe he'd like to make a metahuman superpower movie?

[Leo656]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I never expected DC to "win" the game of public opinion and I don't expect them to do so now.

They came out second. Regardless of quality or reviews, "second place is the first loser" in the public's eyes. Marvel had already solidly laid down the brick for their universe. DC had two paths to choose from: Try and be explicitly different from Marvel and let the chips fall where they may, OR, be a carbon copy of them and forever be accused of playing the "Rip-Off" game.

They started with Path A, then shifted heavily into Path B, and neither of them has earned them a ton of respect (even within the more positive reviews of the "Sunnier & Funnier" stuff they've done recently, there's a hefty dose of "copycat" accusations).

It's easy for someone sitting in the cheap seats to say, "Just make Good Movies", but that's such a dramatic over-simplification. The fact is, you also need a brand identity. And much has been written in the business pages about how the market simply does not have room for TWO massive super-hero film franchises.

Marvel got their movies out to market first. They "win". It's as simple as that. It's way, way too late in the game to start thinking about it as a competition. It isn't and it was never going to be. Marvel beat them to market by almost 5 years. At this point, all they can do is try to be as competent as possible with how they handle their future projects, and STOP being so over-reactionary. Because THAT is their biggest problem, the fact that they scrap every plan they have and start over at the whiff of one middling review. They NEED a direction and an identity of their own.
-----------------------

Anyway, this looks interesting but it's still a very weird project to be coming out.

[Andrew NDB]

Somebody really needs to be pulled off everything else, given the role of "DC Kevin Feige", and told "make us some goddamn good CBMs. You've got the blank check, we'll stop interfering, make us legitimate in the fans' eyes."

They sort of tried to do that with Geoff Johns for a while... but they quickly realized he was tanking all of their movies, so they promoted him out of the role to write a screenplay for Green Lantern Corps they probably won't even use.

But yeah, they need to find their own Kevin Feige, and fast.

At this point, maybe WB should start passing a collection plate to bring back Christopher Nolan. Maybe he'd like to make a metahuman superpower movie?

Absolutely!

Looking back, I really wish they'd just have dialed back some of the aspects in "Dark Knight Rises" (don't turn Wayne Manor into an orphanage, don't reveal who Batman is to Gordon, don't retire Batman AGAIN at the end of the movie) and just made the Nolan trilogy the opening act of the DCEU.

Now imagine if things proceeded as they did with MoS, WW, Aquaman... and THEN a JL movie (heavily hands-on by Nolan) with the Bale Batman, Gal Gadot WW, Henry Cavill Superman, Jason Momoa Aquaman, [someone cool] Green Lantern, and [someone cool] Flash. I'd be pumped as hell to see that movie. It wouldn't even effect their timeline of when the movies would come out. Just convert BvS into MoS 2 or Aquaman 1... voila, done.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Absolutely!

Looking back, I really wish they'd just have dialed back some of the aspects in "Dark Knight Rises" (don't turn Wayne Manor into an orphanage, don't reveal who Batman is to Gordon, don't retire Batman AGAIN at the end of the movie) and just made the Nolan trilogy the opening act of the DCEU.

Now imagine if things proceeded as they did with MoS, WW, Aquaman... and THEN a JL movie (heavily hands-on by Nolan) with the Bale Batman, Gal Gadot WW, Henry Cavill Superman, Jason Momoa Aquaman, [someone cool] Green Lantern, and [someone cool] Flash.

The movie could have ended just as well with those changes like you said. Hell, you could even have the identity reveal to Gordon; it doesn't change a whole hell of a lot going forward, as a ton of Batman stories have always had Gordon deliberately not knowing or pretending not to know who Bruce is. It's not a dealbreaker.

I get and appreciate that WB let Nolan do completely his own thing, but if they had just told him "how about 2 years instead of 8?" and "how about we find a way to end your trilogy but still leave all the pieces on the board for Justice League movies?", the DC/WB slate would be a lot better these days.

Hell, DC and Marvel would be neck and neck.

[Andrew NDB]

I get and appreciate that WB let Nolan do completely his own thing, but if they had just told him "how about 2 years instead of 8?" and "how about we find a way to end your trilogy but still leave all the pieces on the board for Justice League movies?", the DC/WB slate would be a lot better these days.

Hell, DC and Marvel would be neck and neck.

Yep! Agreed. And we'd still have Michael Caine Alfred! Imagine him welcoming the JL members into the Bat-Cave, or kissing WW's hand.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yep! Agreed. And we'd still have Michael Caine Alfred! Imagine him welcoming the JL members into the Bat-Cave, or kissing WW's hand.

At the time, I supported "close the book on Nolan's trilogy!" But now, retrospect is a b!tch.

And Warner Brothers should have--but really, that's a sentence that's already been used way too often.

For every single good decision Warner Brothers has made regarding a DC movie, there's about ninety bad decisions all pushing and shoving to remind us that, hey, don't worry, guys! We're not going to threaten Marvel's box office dominance AT ALL.

It is truly the best of times and the worst of times. :tlol:

[Leo656]

I really don't think any of that would have worked. I know I'm in the minority but I think people are kind of missing the fact that the ENTIRE point of Nolan's trilogy was, "This is Real Life. There is nothing fantastical about this universe. There are no aliens, there are no 'super villains', there's just a guy in a mask." And it was GREAT at doing that, but I think it would be a terrible launching pad for a shared universe with such a diverse - and fantastical - amount of characters and lore. Nothing great about the DCU as it exists in the comic books could also exist in the universe established in the Dark knight trilogy.

It really only works as its own self-contained universe. They arguably misunderstood who Bruce Wayne is and WHY he's Batman worse than anyone ever has, depending on whether or not you think he'd ever quit being Batman (he wouldn't).

I get people liked the films a lot and wanted to see more of them. I loved them myself. But again, great self-contained series, terrible springboard for a larger "shared universe". It would break the entire thing.

Nevermind that neither Nolan or Bale would even go along with it. People's wishful thinking overrides their logic, sometimes.

[Andrew NDB]

I really don't think any of that would have worked. I know I'm in the minority but I think people are kind of missing the fact that the ENTIRE point of Nolan's trilogy was, "This is Real Life. There is nothing fantastical about this universe. There are no aliens, there are no 'super villains', there's just a guy in a mask." And it was GREAT at doing that, but I think it would be a terrible launching pad for a shared universe with such a diverse - and fantastical - amount of characters and lore. Nothing great about the DCU as it exists in the comic books could also exist in the universe established in the Dark knight trilogy.

That's kind of the beauty of it, in going from that to... begin with that, and dovetail into less grounded stuff as soon as Superman arrives.

[Leo656]

In theory, anything can be made to work. In practice...? I don't know.

Bale was 100% out. That in itself is a huge stumbling block in this theory. He was adamant that if the series took a more fantastical turn - or even just included Robin - that he simply wouldn't show up for work.

Tough to work around that.

[sdp]

This looks weird, #notmyjoker but I still want to see it.

[Autbot_Benz]

I've seen this trailer 3 times so far and I get more excited/intrigued by it

[Leo656]

It's definitely very intriguing. It still very strongly comes off like a prequel to the Heath Ledger version, to me, with a twist of the "Killing Joke" origin. It definitely has a very interesting "energy", and I like the tone of it.

As others have oft-mentioned, it unfortunately will screw several other things up if it does well, and the last thing WB/DC needs at this point is more reactionary gear-shifting and "tweaking". But it should definitely be interesting as its own thing. Not sure if I'll see it in theaters but I definitely will at some point.

It doesn't look bad, but the circumstances of its conception and release are unfortunate.

[Andrew NDB]

In theory, anything can be made to work. In practice...? I don't know.

Bale was 100% out. That in itself is a huge stumbling block in this theory. He was adamant that if the series took a more fantastical turn - or even just included Robin - that he simply wouldn't show up for work.

Tough to work around that.

Are we sure that isn't FAKE news? I remember seeing an actual interview with Bale when BvS was being developed that when he saw the news about Affleck being cast as Batman, he genuinely felt sad.

And I don't believe any talks ever happened between WB and Bale about "we want you to still be Batman in our new stuff." I think that's a fiction for sure.

[Leo656]

He said part of him felt sad, the rest was still relieved to have moved on. I forget which interview but he spoke of it in several places.

He also wasn't altogether happy with how the trilogy had turned out, and was disappointed in his own performance, as he had originally been pitched and sold on a much "darker" interpretation of the character than what the movies ultimately became, and he felt that they never got to fully explore it as they'd intended. So his "sadness" at seeing Bale's performance was partly a result of that dissatisfaction, and wishing he could do it over to a point. But he also remembered why he was reluctant to even do three of them and had been relieved to walk away from it.

He definitely, definitely would not have wanted to do a Justice League movie, or even a Superman team-up movie. He was very vocal about not wanting to be part of ANY of that, and had reportedly turned down those same opportunities before they finally put together what became "Batman Begins". He ONLY did the Nolan films because they were a self-contained thing with a beginning, middle, and definitive end, and hinged upon the premise that Batman be the single most "fantastical" thing about the series. No Robin, no aliens, no super-villains, NO Justice League. He wanted nothing to do with that stuff.

It's easy to say, "Well, pay him enough and he would," but A. They supposedly DID throw him over $20 million to remain Batman for the DCEU, well before they talked to Affleck, and he reportedly turned it down because he was completely, thoroughly Done With It, and B. Do we REALLY want to see anyone sleepwalk through three or four movies playing a role they're already completely sick of playing, and are transparently ONLY doing because they're giving the guy a huge paycheck? I like Bale a lot too, but when that guy isn't invested in a role, the results speak for themselves. He genuinely wanted to do the Nolan films, but I wouldn't want to watch him piss and moan his way through Justice League when he didn't even wanna be there. We already saw Affleck piss and moan his way through Justice League because he didn't wanna be there. At least he didn't scream at anybody and/or threaten to kick their ass, like Bale does when HE gets bored. :lol:

I don't think it was conclusively proven that they made him an offer, but it was oft-reported and never denied. Do I personally think they offered him to keep playing Batman? Yes, I do, because he was very popular in the role and it's always easier to just spend more money to placate someone who's that beloved, rather than to recast them altogether. I am absolutely certain that someone up top said, "Pay him whatever he wants, people like him," and that Bale simply couldn't be swayed. To NOT have at least tried to keep him is what I find completely unrealistic. "Nah, let him go, don't even bother." No WAY. They had to have tried. He didn't do it. That means he said No.

I understand why people have a hard time "letting go" of those movies. They were mostly really, really good. But nostalgia is kind of leading people to forget what the project was designed to be and that it wouldn't necessarily work if it were suddenly retrofitted after the fact into something that's the complete opposite, even with the same lead actor and director, which ALSO wasn't even possible in the first place. Nolan didn't even want to do a THIRD one, and hated the way the production was handled, so he too was Completely Done With It. He too would have wanted nothing to do with a BvS or Justice League movie.

It's weird seeing people wish for something that the people who it would depend on in order to happen were 100% against. Does their own opinion and aspiration count for nothing? "I wish they'd do _____." Well, they specifically didn't want to do that. I'm perfectly fine with that. I respect their personal and professional opinion about their job and whether or not they were the correct people for that specific project. They said No. I happen to agree with them.

[Autbot_Benz]

looks like Josh Pais aka 1990 Raphael is playing a character in this movie Hoyt Vaughn.

Also Alfred Pennyworth is in this movie played by Douglas Hodge besides Thomas Wayne. So that little kid could be Bruce.

[Andrew NDB]

So Robert DeNiro plays, like, an angry TV show political commentator? I can't imagine why they would want him in that role...

1zNr8Pf1QkY

[AquaParade]

He said part of him felt sad, the rest was still relieved to have moved on. I forget which interview but he spoke of it in several places.

He also wasn't altogether happy with how the trilogy had turned out, and was disappointed in his own performance, as he had originally been pitched and sold on a much "darker" interpretation of the character than what the movies ultimately became, and he felt that they never got to fully explore it as they'd intended. So his "sadness" at seeing Bale's performance was partly a result of that dissatisfaction, and wishing he could do it over to a point. But he also remembered why he was reluctant to even do three of them and had been relieved to walk away from it.

He definitely, definitely would not have wanted to do a Justice League movie, or even a Superman team-up movie. He was very vocal about not wanting to be part of ANY of that, and had reportedly turned down those same opportunities before they finally put together what became "Batman Begins". He ONLY did the Nolan films because they were a self-contained thing with a beginning, middle, and definitive end, and hinged upon the premise that Batman be the single most "fantastical" thing about the series. No Robin, no aliens, no super-villains, NO Justice League. He wanted nothing to do with that stuff.

It's easy to say, "Well, pay him enough and he would," but A. They supposedly DID throw him over $20 million to remain Batman for the DCEU, well before they talked to Affleck, and he reportedly turned it down because he was completely, thoroughly Done With It, and B. Do we REALLY want to see anyone sleepwalk through three or four movies playing a role they're already completely sick of playing, and are transparently ONLY doing because they're giving the guy a huge paycheck? I like Bale a lot too, but when that guy isn't invested in a role, the results speak for themselves. He genuinely wanted to do the Nolan films, but I wouldn't want to watch him piss and moan his way through Justice League when he didn't even wanna be there. We already saw Affleck piss and moan his way through Justice League because he didn't wanna be there. At least he didn't scream at anybody and/or threaten to kick their ass, like Bale does when HE gets bored. :lol:

I don't think it was conclusively proven that they made him an offer, but it was oft-reported and never denied. Do I personally think they offered him to keep playing Batman? Yes, I do, because he was very popular in the role and it's always easier to just spend more money to placate someone who's that beloved, rather than to recast them altogether. I am absolutely certain that someone up top said, "Pay him whatever he wants, people like him," and that Bale simply couldn't be swayed. To NOT have at least tried to keep him is what I find completely unrealistic. "Nah, let him go, don't even bother." No WAY. They had to have tried. He didn't do it. That means he said No.

I understand why people have a hard time "letting go" of those movies. They were mostly really, really good. But nostalgia is kind of leading people to forget what the project was designed to be and that it wouldn't necessarily work if it were suddenly retrofitted after the fact into something that's the complete opposite, even with the same lead actor and director, which ALSO wasn't even possible in the first place. Nolan didn't even want to do a THIRD one, and hated the way the production was handled, so he too was Completely Done With It. He too would have wanted nothing to do with a BvS or Justice League movie.

It's weird seeing people wish for something that the people who it would depend on in order to happen were 100% against. Does their own opinion and aspiration count for nothing? "I wish they'd do _____." Well, they specifically didn't want to do that. I'm perfectly fine with that. I respect their personal and professional opinion about their job and whether or not they were the correct people for that specific project. They said No. I happen to agree with them.

Hey Leo,
this interview sounds fascinating. Don't want to ask you to track it down, but let me know if you have any leads on where I might find it.

Thanks

[Autbot_Benz]

Man I pretty much swore off DC Movies going to see them in theaters but this year they are getting my money twice for Shazam and Joker

[sdp]

After thinking about this today, I think it looks like a great movie, only two things I don't care for is that the Joker is too old to become the Joker for this to be an origin story and that I don't really want an origin story for the Joker. But counting that DC is now in the "Worlds of DC" and the DCEU is dead, every movie is its own thing so its ok

[AquaParade]

After thinking about this today, I think it looks like a great movie, only two things I don't care for is that the Joker is too old to become the Joker for this to be an origin story and that I don't really want an origin story for the Joker. But counting that DC is now in the "Worlds of DC" and the DCEU is dead, every movie is its own thing so its ok

I don’t feel a need for this to be in continuity. At this point, I already would be excited to see a sequel announced, but my primary desire it just for the film to be great.

That said, I also don’t mind the idea of an old, decrepit Joker taking on a youthful Batman. The Joker was never a true physical threat anyway, and the old age could potentially compliment the creepiness.

[Andrew NDB]

I suppose there is the off-hope that this Joker dies at the end... and somehow imparts his motif to some kid. Who grows into the Leto Joker. If they go late 80s, that's not TOO far off the mark for a Young Bruce to grow into the Batfleck/whoever Reeves casts now for The Batman in 2019, also.

Yeah, the biggest crime is this is that if it ends up being good (and I admit, that trailer did look good for what it was) it doesn't help WB build their lineup even a little bit. It's just, "Hey, look what we got going on over in this corner for one night only!"

Also, I don't think they're thinking sequel with this. Given the genesis of this, it seems like a one-off passion project. Granted, that could change if it makes a billion dollars.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I suppose there is the off-hope that this Joker dies at the end... and somehow imparts his motif to some kid. Who grows into the Leto Joker. If they go late 80s, that's not TOO far off the mark for a Young Bruce to grow into the Batfleck/whoever Reeves casts now for The Batman in 2019, also.

Yeah, the biggest crime is this is that if it ends up being good (and I admit, that trailer did look good for what it was) it doesn't help WB build their lineup even a little bit. It's just, "Hey, look what we got going on over in this corner for one night only!"

The amount of money and time WB/DC pours into projects that never, ever tie in to the main ongoing film series is just mindboggling.

The CW shows, the Titans show on their DCU website, Gotham, and now this...

Get it the fvck together, guys. :tlol:

I mean, yes, it can be a strength, and Marvel's "It's all connected" was always just marketing. Still though. It's funny to look at.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I loved the trailer. Clearly going for a psychological approach.

I'm interested to see how the movie turns out

[AquaParade]

I suppose there is the off-hope that this Joker dies at the end... and somehow imparts his motif to some kid. Who grows into the Leto Joker. If they go late 80s, that's not TOO far off the mark for a Young Bruce to grow into the Batfleck/whoever Reeves casts now for The Batman in 2019, also.

Yeah, the biggest crime is this is that if it ends up being good (and I admit, that trailer did look good for what it was) it doesn't help WB build their lineup even a little bit. It's just, "Hey, look what we got going on over in this corner for one night only!"

Also, I don't think they're thinking sequel with this. Given the genesis of this, it seems like a one-off passion project. Granted, that could change if it makes a billion dollars.

To me, that's really nothing more than a glorified easter-egg. Again, i don't understand the desire to tie this to the DCEU. Why do you guys want that? It just feels shoehorned and unrewarding to me. Maybe there's a perspective I am missing.

Also, I see what you mean about this film's success being a sort of "one-off" for DC, financially speaking, if they can't use its success to rope us into more films via connective tissue, but I don't see that as my problem at all, personally speaking.
I don't want to be roped/baited into another film. I want this film to rope in quality actors and directors for future films. I'd rather the vision be unfettered from the start of the creative process, which allows for the film to reach its potential in the first place.

If this film is a stand-alone success, it's going to allow DC to take even more risks and bring in even more quality actors like Joaquin Phoenix. That's what we should be rooting for, in my mind.

[Andrew NDB]

If this film is a stand-alone success, it's going to allow DC to take even more risks and bring in even more quality actors like Joaquin Phoenix.

In more one off Elseworlds things that don't matter? Meh. I don't see it.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

In more one off Elseworlds things that don't matter? Meh. I don't see it.

Elseworlds? I really don't get this. Who cares if a DC movie isn't part of the DCEU? It really doesn't matter to me if all the movies connect into some giant, bloated universe, so long as an individual movie is good. It worked for marvel, yes, but that doesn't mean everybody should do it. I don't care if Batman sneezes in a Justice league movie, and the explanation for why he sneezed is in the next batman movie. To me, it's just a way to get me to pay for the ticket to a movie I don't want to see, in order to fully understand the story in a movie I already saw. :tgrumble:

I dunno. Sorry about the rant, I just wish there were more stand-alone superhero movies

[AquaParade]

In more one off Elseworlds things that don't matter? Meh. I don't see it.

The idea that a film "doesn't matter" if it doesn't tie into an extended universe is mind-boggling to me. And frightening for the industry.

But yes, that's how it works: Studio makes successful, emmy-nominated film, and more high-profile actors and directors want to work with them. You don't see that, then you're not paying attention.

Elseworlds? I really don't get this. Who cares if a DC movie isn't part of the DCEU? It really doesn't matter to me if all the movies connect into some giant, bloated universe, so long as an individual movie is good. It worked for marvel, yes, but that doesn't mean everybody should do it. I don't care if Batman sneezes in a Justice league movie, and the explanation for why he sneezed is in the next batman movie. To me, it's just a way to get me to pay for the ticket to a movie I don't want to see, in order to fully understand the story in a movie I already saw. :tgrumble:

I dunno. Sorry about the rant, I just wish there were more stand-alone superhero movies

Yes.

[sdp]

The DCEU is dead, you can read between the lines ine verything they've said in their successful movies and their upcoming projects. Suicide Squad 2 is confirmed to not be in continuity but has Margot Robbie? Shazam doesn't have Cavill, Wonder Woman 2 is said to be a new movie not connected to the first even if in continuity with the first. They didn't know what to do after wonder Woman was successful but the DCEU wasn´t what they expected.

Sure they could have just fixed the DCEU but we all know that wasn't going to happen, this is DC who cancelled their superhero projects after Green Lantern failed, cancelled them again after Man of Steel didn't make the impact that they wanted, changed their plans and finally got to Man of Steel 2 only teasing that Batman would have a small role in it only for that film to evolve into Batman v Superman.

When that failed, they quickly cancelled the second Justice League movie and were waiting to see how that went and well it also failed. It is not a matter of "They didn't start with solo movies", that´s incorrect. Only Iron Man was the one who did excellent in phase 1 besides Avengers, the other solo movies did alright, also Hulk wasn´t an orign story, they knew that the Hulk film was still fresh in people's minds hence it's a pseudo-sequel to it, which is what DC was kind of doing, you already know who Batman is. After Avengers is when the MCU started to become the real hit that it was, and even then to keep interest in phase 3 they had to rely on events like Civil War and tons of crossovers to keep people engaged, similart o comic book movies.

Avengers is not about a team anymore but more of a comic book event mass crossover. The MCU has its own problems now with continuity that will affect it going forward, its strength will be its weak point similar to continuity in comics and diminishing threats after so many intergalactic threats so often. The Worlds of DC initiative of having movies outside the DCEU was a way for DC to get people to think about other stuff besides one continuity.

They keep saying they want to build strong solo stories and so far it seems to be working for them and I'm sure the shared universe has left them a bad taste in their mouth, they previously mentioned they preferred solo stories a decade ago. They can build stories with these characters and not worry about continuity, Joker is a little different? Doesn't matter because its not the same continuity and yet people will now be familiar with these characters like Joker, Aquaman, etc.

It's the same strategy they used for their animated DCU movies and in a way they are going to get rid of the problem the MCU is going to be having in the next few years with continuity and different actors etc. Sorry for the wall of text, i dont have the means to edit my post.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The DCEU is dead, you can read between the lines ine verything they've said in their successful movies and their upcoming projects. Suicide Squad 2 is confirmed to not be in continuity but has Margot Robbie? Shazam doesn't have Cavill, Wonder Woman 2 is said to be a new movie not connected to the first even if in continuity with the first. They didn't know what to do after wonder Woman was successful but the DCEU wasn´t what they expected. Sure they could have just fixed the DCEU but we all know that wasn't going to happen, this is DC who cancelled their superhero projects after Green Lantern failed, cancelled them again after Man of Steel didn't make the impact that they wanted, changed their plans and finally got to Man of Steel 2 only teasing that Batman would have a small role in it only for that film to evolve into Batman v Superman. When that failed, they quickly cancelled the second Justice League movie and were waiting to see how that went and well it also failed. It is not a matter of "They didn't start with solo movies", that´s incorrect. Only Iron Man was the one who did excellent in phase 1 besides Avengers, the other solo movies did alright, also Hulk wasn´t an orign story, they knew that the Hulk film was still fresh in people's minds hence it's a pseudo-sequel to it, which is what DC was kind of doing, you already know who Batman is. After Avengers is when the MCU started to become the real hit that it was, and even then to keep interest in phase 3 they had to rely on events like Civil War and tons of crossovers to keep people engaged, similart o comic book movies. Avengers is not about a team anymore but more of a comic book event mass crossover. The MCU has its own problems now with continuity that will affect it going forward, its strength will be its weak point similar to continuity in comics and diminishing threats after so many intergalactic threats so often. The Worlds of DC initiative of having movies outside the DCEU was a way for DC to get people to think about other stuff besides one continuity. They keep saying they want to build strong solo stories and so far it seems to be working for them and I'm sure the shared universe has left them a bad taste in their mouth, they previously mentioned they preferred solo stories a decade ago. They can build stories with these characters and not worry about continuity, Joker is a little different? Doesn't matter because its not the same continuity and yet people will now be familiar with these characters like Joker, Aquaman, etc. It's the same strategy they used for their animated DCU movies and in a way they are going to get rid of the problem the MCU is going to be having in the next few years with continuity and different actors etc. Sorry for the wall of text, i dont have the means to edit my post.

Dude. Paragraphs. Break that $hit up so I can read it. :tlol: I think there were probably good points in there...

[Andrew NDB]

Suicide Squad 2 is confirmed to not be in continuity but has Margot Robbie?

Lies. And Jai Courtney AND Viola Davis (as of today) are confirmed to be in it. wtf else would it be?

Shazam doesn't have Cavill,

Which isn't for a lack of trying to get him to do it. Negotiations fell apart. Probably for lack of WB having an actual Superman movie to offer him beyond the cameo.

Wonder Woman 2 is said to be a new movie not connected to the first even if in continuity with the first.

Meaningless.

DC who cancelled their superhero projects after Green Lantern failed, cancelled them again after Man of Steel didn't make the impact that they wanted,

Nothing was cancelled after Man of Steel. The movie did fine. WB just kowtowed to people on the internet crying about, "WHY did they have Superman kill????" so they made Snyder shift gears from MoS 2 to the "Batman gets REVENGE on Superman!" movie.

also Hulk wasn´t an orign story

Hulk (2003) was absolutely an origin story.

The Worlds of DC initiative

Did that ever actually become a real thing? I remember reading about that, but not about them ever actually unveiling that.

[snake]

Andrew, accept my follow request on Instagram, you heathen.


And follow me back already, Candy Kappa.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew, accept my follow request on Instagram, you heathen.

I just accepted a bunch that've been sitting there for months. Which one is you?

[snake]

Initials J.B.

[Leo656]

Hey Leo,
this interview sounds fascinating. Don't want to ask you to track it down, but let me know if you have any leads on where I might find it.

Thanks

I'm almost positive that it was a bunch of things he said in a bunch of places, which were roughly around the same time. I have no idea where it first came from, sorry. I remember when they announced Affleck, a bunch of people suddenly wanted to know what Bale was thinking, so a bunch of people were asking him all kinds of stuff for a while.

His feelings about wanting his films to have gone even "darker" and "angrier" with Bruce Wayne stood out to me because I mostly thought they'd nailed it pretty well, aside from the obvious fact that any Bruce Wayne who would consider an "exit strategy" for being Batman apart from "dying on the job" simply isn't Bruce Wayne. But I thought they did a great job aside from that one gigantic misunderstanding of who the character is and what his motivations are. Apparently Bale disagreed. I do kinda get what he meant. As the movies went on Bruce was way less "vengeful" and a ton more "mopey". They could've done that better. But they also could have done many things better. It is what it is.

[Xav]

Hulk (2003) was absolutely an origin story.He's talking about The Incredible Hulk 2008, the film that takes place in the MCU.

[AquaParade]

I'm almost positive that it was a bunch of things he said in a bunch of places, which were roughly around the same time. I have no idea where it first came from, sorry. I remember when they announced Affleck, a bunch of people suddenly wanted to know what Bale was thinking, so a bunch of people were asking him all kinds of stuff for a while.

His feelings about wanting his films to have gone even "darker" and "angrier" with Bruce Wayne stood out to me because I mostly thought they'd nailed it pretty well, aside from the obvious fact that any Bruce Wayne who would consider an "exit strategy" for being Batman apart from "dying on the job" simply isn't Bruce Wayne. But I thought they did a great job aside from that one gigantic misunderstanding of who the character is and what his motivations are. Apparently Bale disagreed. I do kinda get what he meant. As the movies went on Bruce was way less "vengeful" and a ton more "mopey". They could've done that better. But they also could have done many things better. It is what it is.

Thanks.

I always preferred the perspective that Batman/Bruce died while carrying that bomb out of Gotham. If not for that “autopilot” line, that’d be an easy pill to swallow for me. It’s like they wanted to leave it ambiguous and chickened out at the last moment or something.

[sdp]

I guess you'll just have to wait and see if the DCEU is dead or not, but it's clear they're taking this, not canon approach which is best really, it's what they should've done after the Nolan trilogy, have another Batman movie a la 007 that is kind of in continuity but at the same time not bound by it.

Dude. Paragraphs. Break that $hit up so I can read it. :tlol: I think there were probably good points in there...

I apologized at the end, I was writing on a browser that didn't let me put spaces up, but it's edited now ;p

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The DCEU is dead, you can read between the lines ine verything they've said in their successful movies and their upcoming projects. Suicide Squad 2 is confirmed to not be in continuity but has Margot Robbie? Shazam doesn't have Cavill, Wonder Woman 2 is said to be a new movie not connected to the first even if in continuity with the first. They didn't know what to do after wonder Woman was successful but the DCEU wasn´t what they expected.

Suicide Squad 2 is getting really, really weird. At first we hear "no returning actors (except Margot Robbie), and by this point, I think Waller, Harley, Rick Flag, AND Boomerang are all reprising their roles. We heard Idris Elba was recasting Deadshot, but now he's not!

The prevailing theory I'm reading, and I find myself inclined to go with it considering WB/DC's modus operandi, is that after Gunn got rehired for Guardians of the Galaxy 3, he realized he didn't have the time (or desire) for Suicide Squad 2... and now the movie is being completely overhauled, without his creative vision.

Sure they could have just fixed the DCEU but we all know that wasn't going to happen, this is DC who cancelled their superhero projects after Green Lantern failed, cancelled them again after Man of Steel didn't make the impact that they wanted, changed their plans and finally got to Man of Steel 2 only teasing that Batman would have a small role in it only for that film to evolve into Batman v Superman.

You're damn right about that. One movie fails, or even just underwhelms, and WB/DC scrap the entire damn planned roster. It's idiotic. Retool a bit, sure, but you gotta stick to SOME part of your damn plan. And not throw Harley Quinn into every fvcking movie. :trolleye:

When that failed, they quickly cancelled the second Justice League movie and were waiting to see how that went and well it also failed. It is not a matter of "They didn't start with solo movies", that´s incorrect. Only Iron Man was the one who did excellent in phase 1 besides Avengers, the other solo movies did alright, also Hulk wasn´t an orign story, they knew that the Hulk film was still fresh in people's minds hence it's a pseudo-sequel to it, which is what DC was kind of doing, you already know who Batman is. After Avengers is when the MCU started to become the real hit that it was, and even then to keep interest in phase 3 they had to rely on events like Civil War and tons of crossovers to keep people engaged, similart o comic book movies.

I think, at this point, the WB/DC lineup is starting, just barely starting, to emulate the MCU in one way: characters take off with great success, and audience loyalty begins to happen. Nobody really gave a fvck about Captain America, but after his first movie and the Avengers, his status hugely took off with The Winter Soldier. In the same way, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are both experiencing huge spikes of popularity after successful movies. (Although Wonder Woman was and absolutely should have been already popular.)

Avengers is not about a team anymore but more of a comic book event mass crossover. The MCU has its own problems now with continuity that will affect it going forward, its strength will be its weak point similar to continuity in comics and diminishing threats after so many intergalactic threats so often. The Worlds of DC initiative of having movies outside the DCEU was a way for DC to get people to think about other stuff besides one continuity.

The only reason WB/DC is exploring other continuities is because their primary continuity has been largely rejected by the audience. And I don't think the MCU is going to experience any large problems due to its continuity. Sure, we've seen small issues (like the timeline problems with Spiderman Homecoming impossibly taking place eight years ago), but they're not causing the audiences to riot or start rejecting the movies.

They keep saying they want to build strong solo stories and so far it seems to be working for them and I'm sure the shared universe has left them a bad taste in their mouth, they previously mentioned they preferred solo stories a decade ago. They can build stories with these characters and not worry about continuity, Joker is a little different? Doesn't matter because its not the same continuity and yet people will now be familiar with these characters like Joker, Aquaman, etc.

Dude, people have ALWAYS been familiar with characters like the Joker. My grandmother knew who the Joker was. :tlol: Batman, Superman, even Wonder Woman have always been household names. The MCU, of course, was built on second-tier characters because all the good ones had been sold off.

It's the same strategy they used for their animated DCU movies and in a way they are going to get rid of the problem the MCU is going to be having in the next few years with continuity and different actors etc. Sorry for the wall of text, i dont have the means to edit my post.

I dunno, I don't see the DC animated movies experiencing much acclaimed success. They're a grab bag of meh, crap, and good. :tlol:

I guess you'll just have to wait and see if the DCEU is dead or not, but it's clear they're taking this, not canon approach which is best really, it's what they should've done after the Nolan trilogy, have another Batman movie a la 007 that is kind of in continuity but at the same time not bound by it.

I apologized at the end, I was writing on a browser that didn't let me put spaces up, but it's edited now ;p

Sorry man, I couldn't read it. Appreciate the editing, though, you had some fun conversation fodder in there!

Loose continuity is okay. I think they can reference things in other movies going forward but not be a slave or so rigidly building to the next movie like the MCU. There's a balance and another way to do things, but WB/DC just wants the quick and easy (and doomed to fail) solutions, more often than not.

[Autbot_Benz]

I have to say I think joaquin 's Joker laugh is the best laugh out of any of the live action jokers thus far.

[sdp]

https://www.wired.com/2009/02/heath-ledger-nu/
https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/89329-Dark-Knight-Fanboys-Joker-Should-Be-Retired
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/12/ledgerjokercampaign.screeningroom/index.html
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a146632/heath-ledger-fans-want-joker-retired/

Remember when retiring the Joker after Heath Ledger's passing was a thing people wanted?

"We truly believe Ledger's performance as Joker is the best an actor could ever do,"

"Any other performance will be below expectations for sure, so we want to forever keep Ledger's Joker as the one,"

"It's impossible to imagine, impossible to draw or dub much less repeat the performance.

"Television and animation is off our radar," he says. "And we like Jokers like Cesar Romero or Jack Nicholson, and even the voice of Mark Hamill. But we think this psycho in scarred whiteface is the best ever. No one can improve it. So please, Hollywood, use other enemies in the sequels to come."

"Efforts to find a new Jokershould simply cease. The Joker must die now and forever.

"Now is the time for him to rest in peace as Ledger has ennobled the honourable villain."

They added that the "ultimate Joker" deserves the homage of having the character retired from future films.



And you might think they meant only for the Nolan continuity, but no a large majority of them meant it forever in any future film, some even going as far as saying in comics. Sure a lot of it was the FAKE news geek culture blogs reblogging for clicks but it was something that people discussed and made threads about it, I remember at least 2 different ones over at NeoGAF back then so it wasn't just a few crazy Heath Ledger fans.

[MikeandRaph87]

The ultimate Joker is merely a voice, its Mark Hamill. Sorry,but its true.

[Vegita-San]

I still think ledger sucked.

just a random madman. nothing joker special about him.

[Hamato Yoshi]

For that you will be banished to the Phantom Zone : "Guilty !" :lol:

Seriously , TDK is kinda overrated , TMNT '90 and Batman MoP are just as good

Joker will never die just as Bond will never die even when the Reaper one day decides to take Sean with him (he already took Rog but just an example)...why should they stop making Joker related films if theres good stories to be told and possibly good performances ?

[MikeandRaph87]

It would not have gotten near the praise it did had Ledger lived. I gaurantee it. Instead of getting The Joker and five minutes of Two Face I would have rather have seen yet-to-be adapted villains like Batman Begins did with Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul.

[CyberCubed]

It's a fantastic movie and still the one I rewatch the most. Great performances and the best live-action Joker and Two Face to date (although in the latter case it's not saying much given how bad Two Face was in Batman Forever). But Joker is open to many different interpretations so this looks great as well. Hard to believe we haven't gotten a particular great Batman movie since 2008, which is now 11 years ago. Damn.

[sdp]

TDK is a great film, not as good as begins but still great and the Joker was well done even if different. I also remember the overreactions when we got the first picture reveal of the Joker, all the internet where complaining about it, goes to show how over-reactionary is the internet.

They really shouldn't have killed Two Face but oh well, they really needed to have a "try not to kill villains" rule, also the trilogy shouldn't have ended the way it did, we want more Batman, not for him to have a happy ending, continue making more movies in that same universe with other directors even if the theme changed a la 007, they should've started back then. I can understand WB being so happy with Nolan that they let him do whatever he wanted.

[Leo656]

I'm not sure how much I would pay for people to stop overrating Hammil's Joker, but I'm sure it would be substantial.

It baffles me how many people around here are in romantic love with children's cartoons and can't see anything beyond them. But then again... Kinda not really.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm not sure how much I would pay for people to stop overrating Hammil's Joker, but I'm sure it would be substantial.

It baffles me how many people around here are in romantic love with children's cartoons and can't see anything beyond them. But then again... Kinda not really.

100% agreement here.

Yes, Hamill is great. He's not the only great, and he's not necessarily the greatest.

[sdp]

Hamill is a great Joker but I also don't see him as the best either, Kevin Conroy though I'd say he's definitely my voice for Batman. BTAS is definitely flawed but at the same time it's so damn good that you can overlook its shortcomings. No Batman universe is perfect to me but BTAS does get more points than all the other Batman media I've been exposed to but I'd hope one day we get a better version.

[Leo656]

If anything, Hammill's take was "As good as can reasonably be expected considering that these stories are taking place in a kid-centric universe where nothing too bad can ever possibly happen to anyone." Given how the character is a murderous nihilistic sociopath, and the material would never allow for that, by logic and reason it could never be the "definitive" portrayal.

And then they put him in "The Killing Joke" and he was terrible. Now to be fair, the whole movie was pretty lousy. But after all his big talk about how long he wanted to do it, the actual performance was a huge letdown.

I understand that people have a tendency to overrate things that they grew up with, but it's pretty laughable just the same.

[Candy Kappa]

DiMaggio did a pretty interesting Joker in Under the Red Hood

[AquaParade]

It would not have gotten near the praise it did had Ledger lived. I gaurantee it. Instead of getting The Joker and five minutes of Two Face I would have rather have seen yet-to-be adapted villains like Batman Begins did with Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul.

I disagree. It still would have been heavily praised, for sure. I would certainly love the character just as much as I do, had Heath survived. It makes no difference to me. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Maybe he wouldn't have won any awards though. I could get behind that argument, but I think the praise was high and mighty before that came into play anyways.

I can understand why you'd want to see new characters explored instead. I was definitely ready for a new Joker on the big screen at that point in time, but I'm sure many are like you and have had their fill of the character. Especially when Batman has so many fantastic villains to choose from.

Who would you like to see most in Matt Reeve's film? I'd love to see if they can make a character like Clayface work within the Noir-type setting that Matt Reeve's seems to be going for. That could be tricky though. I think a lot of people have already mentioned The Ventriloquist, as a character they'd like to see, which also sounds great to me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I disagree. It still would have been heavily praised, for sure. I would certainly love the character just as much as I do, had Heath survived. It makes no difference to me. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Maybe he wouldn't have won any awards though. I could get behind that argument, but I think the praise was high and mighty before that came into play anyways.

I can understand why you'd want to see new characters explored instead. I was definitely ready for a new Joker on the big screen at that point in time, but I'm sure many are like you and have had their fill of the character. Especially when Batman has so many fantastic villains to choose from.

Who would you like to see most in Matt Reeve's film? I'd love to see if they can make a character like Clayface work within the Noir-type setting that Matt Reeve's seems to be going for. That could be tricky though. I think a lot of people have already mentioned The Ventriloquist, as a character they'd like to see, which also sounds great to me.

The only reason I want to see another Joker in Batman movies is because I want to see Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd both get supporting roles in movies. (The whole Bat family, ideally.) And you can't use defining elements of The Killing Joke or Death of the Family and Under the Red Hood without the Clown Prince of Crime.

As far as new villains, I don't care about the Ventriloquist, but I'd love to see Clayface. And Hush, and Hugo Strange, and the Court of Owls.

Also new takes on Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, and the Riddler, to make up for those abysmal Schumacher movies. :tlol:

[Barkworm]

If anything, Hammill's take was "As good as can reasonably be expected considering that these stories are taking place in a kid-centric universe where nothing too bad can ever possibly happen to anyone." Given how the character is a murderous nihilistic sociopath, and the material would never allow for that, by logic and reason it could never be the "definitive" portrayal.

And then they put him in "The Killing Joke" and he was terrible. Now to be fair, the whole movie was pretty lousy. But after all his big talk about how long he wanted to do it, the actual performance was a huge letdown.

I understand that people have a tendency to overrate things that they grew up with, but it's pretty laughable just the same.
I can't even remember any Joker-centric episodes in the show but he was really amazing in 'Mask of the Phantasm' and 'Return of the Joker'.

And about Ledger: I've never been a fan of the Nolan Batman films but Ledger's Joker was fantastic. He was one of the very few Comicbook film villains that have left a lasting impression on me and Ledger's portrayal was wildly interesting and genuinely scary at points.

[Andrew NDB]

but I'd love to see Clayface. And Hush, and Hugo Strange, and the Court of Owls.

There is a horrifying Batman movie to be made one day with Clayface. Post-Nolanverse, I was really looking forward to seeing a monstrous, non-"grounded" Killer Croc in a Batman movie. Then they gave us that Killer Croc in "Suicide Squad"... yeah, that's not it at all.

Hush, before the Bane announcement, I was certain Nolan was going to want to do him for the third movie.

[AquaParade]

The only reason I want to see another Joker in Batman movies is because I want to see Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd both get supporting roles in movies. (The whole Bat family, ideally.) And you can't use defining elements of The Killing Joke or Death of the Family and Under the Red Hood without the Clown Prince of Crime.

As far as new villains, I don't care about the Ventriloquist, but I'd love to see Clayface. And Hush, and Hugo Strange, and the Court of Owls.

Also new takes on Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, and the Riddler, to make up for those abysmal Schumacher movies. :tlol:

Wow, the Court of Owls is a really great choice. The horror element they bring to the table would be very cool to see in a Batman film.

As much as I love the classics, I think there is an element of excitement that is unique to seeing modern villains up on the big screen. Prof. Pyg, anyone?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There is a horrifying Batman movie to be made one day with Clayface. Post-Nolanverse, I was really looking forward to seeing a monstrous, non-"grounded" Killer Croc in a Batman movie. Then they gave us that Killer Croc in "Suicide Squad"... yeah, that's not it at all.

Hush, before the Bane announcement, I was certain Nolan was going to want to do him for the third movie.

Same. Was hoping for Batman's meta-human rogues like Ivy, Clayface, and Man-Bat. And sure, Killer Croc, too.

I remember the big theory once Tom Hardy was announced was that we'd be seeing Hugo Strange trying to take down the Bat and expose his identity. But a lot of the Hugo clues turned out to be for Arkham City's development, and we got Bane instead.

Wow, the Court of Owls is a really great choice. The horror element they bring to the table would be very cool to see in a Batman film.

As much as I love the classics, I think there is an element of excitement that is unique to seeing modern villains up on the big screen. Prof. Pyg, anyone?

Pyg is a weird one. He could be really good, but I see him as also easily being really, really bad in a movie.

Or how about Morgan Ducard (Nobody), or Mister Bloom? Those could both work really well.

[AquaParade]

Pyg is a weird one. He could be really good, but I see him as also easily being really, really bad in a movie.

Or how about Morgan Ducard (Nobody), or Mister Bloom? Those could both work really well.

Mister Bloom is an interesting choice. Honestly, when I think of Bloom, I think of BatGordan, and when I think of BatGordan, I remember how much I want to see a Batman film where Bruce isn't under the cowl. Doesn't have to be James Gordan, but I think if Dick is ever built up enough, it could be quite satisfying and exciting to see him take on the mantle of Batman.

Pyg is a weird choice, yeah. I think he'd do well in a small, cameo-like, role. Think Scarecrow in The Dark Knight.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Mister Bloom is an interesting choice. Honestly, when I think of Bloom, I think of BatGordan, and when I think of BatGordan, I remember how much I want to see a Batman film where Bruce isn't under the cowl. Doesn't have to be James Gordan, but I think if Dick is ever built up enough, it could be quite satisfying and exciting to see him take on the mantle of Batman.

Pyg is a weird choice, yeah. I think he'd do well in a small, cameo-like, role. Think Scarecrow in The Dark Knight.

I was actually hoping to see the REAL Batman take on Bloom, in a story where the Batsuit ISN'T a 12-foot-tall robot bunny bat mecha. And where Jim Gordon is a badass but still has his damn mustache. :tlol:

And as far as Pyg, yeah--opening sequence villain fodder. If they tried making a full-length feature with him, it'd have to be R-rated, which they wouldn't do, so they'd change the character, and it'd probably be terrible.

[Leo656]

The original Basil Karlo Clayface would have been PERFECT for one of Nolan's films. Although that character's a bit too "grounded" for the current slate of comic book films. I'm afraid that the Matt Hagen Clayface or any of the ones who came after would just be a CGI-fest, but it would definitely be interesting to see. I dig the Clayfaces; "Mud Pack" is one of my all-time favorite Detective Comics arcs. A lot could go wrong in a movie, though.

Zsasz could easily carry a film. In fact, just shoot "The Last Arkham", that would be a GREAT Batman movie. Batman locked up in Arkham for a murder he didn't commit, being tortured and tormented by the vindictive director of Arkham while a serial killer surreptitiously slips away to murder indiscriminately. Just like the book, it would give a great excuse to "open up" the rogues gallery a bit for future movies by giving glimpses of several other Bat-villains.

Anybody who hasn't read it, check it out. It's only four issues and pretty easy to find. That's one of the best Batman stories I've read and it would translate very easily to a movie with only the most minor changes.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Alternative Batman & Robin back then :

-better script

-Luner or Marcia Cross as Poison Ivy

-Voosloo as Mr Freeze

[MikeandRaph87]

I disagree. It still would have been heavily praised, for sure. I would certainly love the character just as much as I do, had Heath survived. It makes no difference to me. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Maybe he wouldn't have won any awards though. I could get behind that argument, but I think the praise was high and mighty before that came into play anyways.

I can understand why you'd want to see new characters explored instead. I was definitely ready for a new Joker on the big screen at that point in time, but I'm sure many are like you and have had their fill of the character. Especially when Batman has so many fantastic villains to choose from.

Who would you like to see most in Matt Reeve's film? I'd love to see if they can make a character like Clayface work within the Noir-type setting that Matt Reeve's seems to be going for. That could be tricky though. I think a lot of people have already mentioned The Ventriloquist, as a character they'd like to see, which also sounds great to me.

Understand that I am not knocking Ledger's Joker, only stating it has its flaws like stating inspiration from Batman#1, which he was primarily a jewel thief is misrepresented and felt Joker had to do too much damage like it was trying to make him intimidating. Mark Hamill in the DCAU is my favorite iteration, sorry Leo, I hope you were not addressing me above. Mark might voice him in other projects, but its not DCAU Joker.

I would have liked to have seen a Mad Hatter/Man-Bat combination. I can think of a couple of directions to go there. Also, I believe technology exist now to justify Clayface.

[Leo656]

I find it very Interesting whenever someone's favorite Joker is someone who's incapable of doing anything more heinous than hit someone with a pie. But whatever floats your boat.

Hammill's fine, but let's be honest... it's not a hard voice to do. Pretty much anyone who's ever attempted it has been Just Fine. I rank them all about even as far as the vocal part goes.

Ledger's my favored pick because it's the only live-action portrayal thus far that fully captures the menace and danger of the character. Lots of times in either animation or live action they try to make him too "suave", too debonair and likable, despite the fact that he's ostensibly the Most Evil Piece Of Sh*t Alive. He's not a "super villain", he's a horror movie character. Nolan presented the material correctly; too often people erroneously present the Joker as a literal clown, and that irritates me. It's like the fact that his "look" is completely ironic is lost on some people.

There's not too many Jokers which I actively dislike, though. The one from "The Batman" animated series was WAY too far out to the opposite "crazy" extreme, so I definitely like that one the least by far. The rest are all various degrees of Pretty Good; several were even very accurate to how the character was portrayed in specific eras. But for most of the character's history, he's been a violent psychotic murderer, so the portrayals which lean closest to that are the ones that top my list.

DCAU Joker can't top the list because of censorship reasons, simple as that. It wasn't a "bad" portrayal at all, but it was inherently limited in how far they could go with it because they didn't want to scare the kiddies. Like everything else in the DCAU, it was Just Fine for what it had to be, but "definitive"? "Best Ever"? Nah. Too many outside restrictions. But it did well within those restrictions, just the same. It's good, I just find it HIGHLY overrated.

Only Ledger and (oddly enough) Leto (aside from the tattoos and other "flair") really got to portray the character as he behaves in the books, at least the post-1970s interpretation. Nicholson is fun to watch, but he's not really playing a role, he's just Being Himself in clownface. Still good, definitely near the top, but I have to put an asterisk next to it since he wasn't really "acting". But those are my Top 3 non-comics Jokers so far, each one "getting it right" from different directions.

I must say, this new one looks interesting and I'm curious to see what it turns out to be.

[Andrew NDB]

And where Jim Gordon is a badass but still has his damn mustache. :tlol:

Can we get an Alfred with one, too? Please?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Can we get an Alfred with one, too? Please?

Hell yes. We deserve this. A thin, balding Alfred with a mustache.

[Autbot_Benz]

zAGVQLHvwOY

[AquaParade]

I couldn't be more excited for this movie!

[IMJ]

Just an unnecessary movie with a character who should never be twisted into an anti-hero villain..... It's just so cliche to take this force of nature character and spin it into a sympathy for the devil thing.

Just an unnecessary flick.... I don't begrudge anyone who sees it for a few hours of entertainment, but I can't imagine that this will do well. I don't think it's going to flop per se, but I can't see this being a massive success.

[Andrew NDB]

Definitely looks engaging, as suspicious as I am about what may be lurking under the surface here (a great big liberal "capitalism evil, Trump bad!" Important™ message). And not to keep beating that drum, but the better and better it looks the sadder it makes me that this movie won't help the DCEU -- or what-have-you -- even one iota.

[Autbot_Benz]

I couldn't be more excited for this movie!

Same here. Its got that non traditional comic book movie feel which is a breath of fresh air.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm really curious to see it, but this is just a weird misstep for DC/WB.

You do well, you don't help the franchise. You do poorly, you definitely don't help the franchise.

Whatever. It'll boost Hot Topics sales this fall, so that's a plus, right? :tgrin:

[Andrew NDB]

I'm really curious to see it, but this is just a weird misstep for DC/WB.

You do well, you don't help the franchise. You do poorly, you definitely don't help the franchise.

We've all talked about how over-reactionary WB is when things go bad ("cancel all plans for everything! abort!")... but also when they go good ("people like Harley? OK, let's put 20 Harley movies into pre-production!"). So imagine if this does gangbusters? We'll probably hear them announce crap like "Riddler" set in the 1950s, or "The Ventriloquist" in the prohibition era. From arthouse directors. Also none of that serving to further anything remotely.

Whatever. It'll boost Hot Topics sales this fall, so that's a plus, right? :tgrin:

If it does what I think it could do, I could see a gang of emo kids/pink hairs really embracing the movie. Dressing up like clowns or whatever to show the man how angry they are at the government during this "dark time."

[AquaParade]

Just an unnecessary movie with a character who should never be twisted into an anti-hero villain..... It's just so cliche to take this force of nature character and spin it into a sympathy for the devil thing.

Just an unnecessary flick.... I don't begrudge anyone who sees it for a few hours of entertainment, but I can't imagine that this will do well. I don't think it's going to flop per se, but I can't see this being a massive success.

Well even though we are both just speculating, I have to disagree on the predicted success of the film.

I think it's going to do very well in the box-office, because...

- I believe there is a thirst for more "adult" comicbook films right now.
- Critics are going to lap up Joaquin Phoenix's performance, so it is sure to review well.
- Horror-type films, including clowns, are on a bit of a resurgence right now.
- The production budget isn't huge either, so it won't need to make much money back to be successful.

I see this film doing very well. Who knows though, right? Guess we will have to see.

I'm really curious to see it, but this is just a weird misstep for DC/WB.

You do well, you don't help the franchise. You do poorly, you definitely don't help the franchise.

Whatever. It'll boost Hot Topics sales this fall, so that's a plus, right? :tgrin:

I don't think I agree. If this film makes a lot of money from it's relatively low budget and is a hit with critics and audiences, then the franchise benefits are:

- Lots of Money $$$
- Respect from other directors and actors in the industry and incentive for them to collaborate with DC
- Goodwill and a better look for the DC/WB films brand in general. If people recognized this as a "DC film" and enjoy it, then the next time they see a "DC film" announced, that goodwill comes into play. I believe it's as simple as that.

We've all talked about how over-reactionary WB is when things go bad ("cancel all plans for everything! abort!")... but also when they go good ("people like Harley? OK, let's put 20 Harley movies into pre-production!"). So imagine if this does gangbusters? We'll probably hear them announce crap like "Riddler" set in the 1950s, or "The Ventriloquist" in the prohibition era. From arthouse directors. Also none of that serving to further anything remotely.


Yeah, but the WB/DC division has changed over the last year or so. Haven't you guys noticed? They changed upper mgmt and there has been a huge slowdown in announced projects. Clearly they changed course a year or two back and have been trying to rebuild since. This isn't the same DC that announced ten Harley & Joker films and chopped up Justice League into tiny bits. They inherited some of that, cut a lot of the fat, and are now more focused.

[sdp]

Preferred the first trailer but this second trailer is good too.

Definitely looks engaging, as suspicious as I am about what may be lurking under the surface here (a great big liberal "capitalism evil, Trump bad!" Important™ message).

lol what? you're seeing things this has nothing to do with that, you're definitely seeing things were there are none.


And not to keep beating that drum, but the better and better it looks the sadder it makes me that this movie won't help the DCEU -- or what-have-you -- even one iota.
The DCEU is dead, we all know this, WW 2 is going its own way and no more team up movies more like anthology like their direct to video films.


Just an unnecessary movie with a character who should never be twisted into an anti-hero villain..... It's just so cliche to take this force of nature character and spin it into a sympathy for the devil thing.

Just an unnecessary flick.... I don't begrudge anyone who sees it for a few hours of entertainment, but I can't imagine that this will do well. I don't think it's going to flop per se, but I can't see this being a massive success.


People love joker, i'm sure it'll be a success, especially since it's "artsy" and different and not over the top like suicide squad. People will eat it up.

This isn't an anti-hero villain movie, it's a tragic background for the character which Batman is known for, the killing joke didn't make joker into an antihero either.

[CyberCubed]

Can’t believe Robert De Niro is in this as a sorta sequel to The King of Comedy. Great touch. Best movie and you need to see it before watching this.

[AquaParade]

Can’t believe Robert De Niro is in this as a sorta sequel to The King of Comedy. Great touch. Best movie and you need to see it before watching this.

I’ve been considering watching it. Sounds like you enjoy it. Is it psychologically intense the way this film appears to be?

[CyberCubed]

I’ve been considering watching it. Sounds like you enjoy it. Is it psychologically intense the way this film appears to be?

It’s literally one of his best movies and considered one of the best movies of its era. You can read articles all about it to see what it’s like before watching it. It’s a dark comedy.

[IMJ]

, it's a tragic background for the character which Batman is known for, the killing joke didn't make joker into an antihero either.

Hm... good point on TKJ... making the Joker a sympathetic loser in that one....

But I'm still erring on the side of lukewarm opening...

I'm mostly curious as to if this is being shoehorned into any continuity as a final surprise - like a Nolan-Verse Joker origin or something...

[Andrew NDB]

I'm mostly curious as to if this is being shoehorned into any continuity as a final surprise - like a Nolan-Verse Joker origin or something...

Not possible. This is set in the 80s, playing like a late 30s/40s Joker. Heath Ledger wasn't playing a 60 year-old man.

If anything, if the rumors are true about "The Batman" being a 90s period piece (though I don't think they are), this movie and that could serve as a pocket Batman universe.

[CyberCubed]

I think people should stop trying to fit every movie with each other, the MCU really spoiled people on other types of movies.

The 90's Batman movies didn't fit with Christopher Reeve Superman movies. The Nolan trilogy didn't fit with Superman Returns, Green Lantern, etc.

[AquaParade]

I think people should stop trying to fit every movie with each other, the MCU really spoiled people on other types of movies.

The 90's Batman movies didn't fit with Christopher Reeve Superman movies. The Nolan trilogy didn't fit with Superman Returns, Green Lantern, etc.

I agree. The sentiment that these films don’t matter or “count” if they aren’t tied into a shared universe is mind-boggling to me. That’s how you get Amazing Spider-Man 2.

[Coola Yagami]

Well.... it's a trailer.


I mean the movie looks like it could be good... but it's just not the Joker. Maybe a guy that read too many Batman comics when he lost his mind and modeled himself after the Joker, but not THE Joker.

Honestly it looks like a movie I might have been somewhat curious about but wouldn't really care to see if it weren't with the name. Which is basically with this is all about. Just the name.

How many would honestly care if the movie was just called The Clown and the person called himself Nutters or whatever in the actual film.

[Andrew NDB]

lol what? you're seeing things this has nothing to do with that, you're definitely seeing things were there are none.

I'm actually not seeing them at all. I suggest that because people involved have literally leaked that from early into the production, including turning into Thomas Wayne into "a Donald Trump type" which appears to be true (also telling, them originally casting Alec Baldwin for the part, who famously plays a parodic Trump on SNL). It's only a question of how pervasive it is.

[Voltron]

Can we have one conversation without this crap?

[Andrew NDB]

Can we have one conversation without this crap?

What? I mean, we can, I guess. If we want to ignore the 30 or so articles and interviews on the web citing these very things over the past year or two or three about "Joker." When we have an actual movie to dissect we can talk about that, too.

Anyway. New trailer was good. Time will tell.

[Voltron]

This isn't an optional thing. The forum rules are no politics. And while we're pretty lenient about it, you're starting to push the limit. No one has been bringing this stuff up.

If you're upset about the the current state of politics in the world, there's places you can go to vent that frustration. Here isn't the place. We have plenty to discuss beyond what ever scandal is currently worming its way through the media.

Don't get me wrong: I get it. There are some facets of the media that marry their politics to the point of not being able to discuss anything else. Star Wars is so far up its ass that's impossible to watch without gagging. No one wants to be lectured, especially when they're trying to escape the drudgery of life.

I'm asking you, please, take a deep breath and try not to lose your cool over it. As upsetting as it is, talking about it is what these people WANT you to do. Don't give them the satisfaction.

[CyberCubed]

I mean the movie looks like it could be good... but it's just not the Joker. Maybe a guy that read too many Batman comics when he lost his mind and modeled himself after the Joker, but not THE Joker.

Honestly it looks like a movie I might have been somewhat curious about but wouldn't really care to see if it weren't with the name. Which is basically with this is all about. Just the name.

How many would honestly care if the movie was just called The Clown and the person called himself Nutters or whatever in the actual film.

Joker has had so many incarnations and backstories that this is just another one. Remember Joker doesn't even have to fall into acid anymore, Nolan's Joker did not. Now Joker just has face paint rather than being permanently scarred white skin and green hair, which honestly...never did make sense.

Wouldn't falling into acid make your face de-formed similar to Two-Face, rather than just bleaching your skin white? The only reason they stuck to the acid origin for so long is due to tradition from the comics.

[AquaParade]

I can't believe how divisive this film appears to be. Opinions are opinions , but every once in a while, you find yourself thinking "...really??" We are about to be treated to something great.

I stand by the prediction that this will do very well with critics and box-office. That it will be appreciated and the message will be sent that we'd like more films of this caliber.

Again, to each their own. If you don't like it, you don't like it. I just feel strongly about this one. I think it could be another game changer in the way we saw with "The Dark Knight" or "Avengers".

[Coola Yagami]

This isn't an optional thing. The forum rules are no politics. And while we're pretty lenient about it, you're starting to push the limit. No one has been bringing this stuff up.

If you're upset about the the current state of politics in the world, there's places you can go to vent that frustration. Here isn't the place. We have plenty to discuss beyond what ever scandal is currently worming its way through the media.

Don't get me wrong: I get it. There are some facets of the media that marry their politics to the point of not being able to discuss anything else. Star Wars is so far up its ass that's impossible to watch without gagging. No one wants to be lectured, especially when they're trying to escape the drudgery of life.

I'm asking you, please, take a deep breath and try not to lose your cool over it. As upsetting as it is, talking about it is what these people WANT you to do. Don't give them the satisfaction.

If you want to keep politics out of it....then you're talking about the wrong movie. He should be free to discuss them as they part of the movie or else close all topics related to this movie then.

Blame the producers for turning it into a political 'important' movie when it should have been more about the Joker

[Coola Yagami]

Joker has had so many incarnations and backstories that this is just another one. Remember Joker doesn't even have to fall into acid anymore, Nolan's Joker did not. Now Joker just has face paint rather than being permanently scarred white skin and green hair, which honestly...never did make sense.

Wouldn't falling into acid make your face de-formed similar to Two-Face, rather than just bleaching your skin white? The only reason they stuck to the acid origin for so long is due to tradition from the comics.

It's a comic book movie, some leaps have to be made or why bother. Otherwise you'd never have a Batman movie cause noone runs around dressed like that, or never have a Superman movie cause aliens don't exist and if they did they would most likely not look human.

[Voltron]

1. No double posting.

2. No politics.

This is a final warning before I crack down.

[Coola Yagami]

1. No double posting.

2. No politics.

This is a final warning before I crack down.

1- sorry, didn't see that

2- then I guess close this thread. This is a political movie. It's not anyone on this forum's fault that they decided to go this route.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Trump bad. Joker bad. McDonald's bad. Global warning bad. Suspenders instead of a belt bad.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :trazz:

I do agree with Andrew, though... I can easily see some kids hijacking the visuals of this movie to launch protests. That should be interesting.

So, as for the movie itself... for the longest time, they've been touting this movie as standalone. But recently Phoenix said he'd be open to a sequel?

Thoughts on that?