Alternate 1989: TMNT failed

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Imagine it's an alternate 1989. The MWS series has failed, and got cancelled in December 1988 after just two seasons. The 1988 action figures also failed, and the Archie comics were cancelled in September 1989 after completing adaption of "The Incredible Shrinking Turtles". Forget major international marketing beyond the borders of the USA. And of course, no 1990 film is recorded. The screenplay may exist, but left rottening for years somewhere in an attic.

It's Thursday 23 November 1989, Thanksgiving Day in the USA, and tomorrow is Black Friday. Christmas approaches. But most children in this timeline don't want TMNT toys for Christmas gifts. (they aren't easy to find anymore, as production ceased in early-1989)

So, how do you think.

1). What would happen to the TMNT franchise during the upcoming years?
2). Do you think any more major attempts would be done to market the TMNT for a younger audience?
3). What other franchises, and kind of franchises would be popular instead during the upcoming years?

[CyberCubed]

So you're saying if the show only had 18 episodes? Then it would have been nothing more than one of those other obscure 80's or 90's cartoons that got canceled quickly, and only remembered by a small handful of people.

The comics would have continued to 1995/1996 as usual. I don't think the Image deal would have happened as TMNT wouldn't have been viewed as a popular IP, and then that would be it until Mirage tried again.

We probably would have never gotten any other cartoons either, as if it didn't prove successful in the 80's when it was new they likely wouldn't have tried again. Likewise there would be no 1990 movie either, as the movie rights would have never been sold if TMNT wasn't a successful cartoon.

[Prowler]

Actually... I believe TMNT would have gotten some cult following even if it had been cancelled two seasons in. Let's not forget the internet has made it easier for people to find hidden gems from the past and other rare obscure stuff. I'm sure someone would have eventually found out about the 1987 Turtles cartoon and make it known to some younger people.

Tons of shows out there weren't the most popular around but have gotten a cult following. Nothing would stop TMNT from getting one either. And I bet its action figures would be worth A TON these days... if they aren't already.

And btw, the season 2 finale had a very final episode vibe to it. In fact, when I finished this episode as a kid I assumed that was the final one since the Technodrome sunk into lava at the end. It's like the writers and producers knew this could possibly be the final episode.

[oldmanwinters]

I think Eastman and Laird would have still gone their separate ways eventually as their creative visions developed. They wouldn't have been quite as distracted with the marketing side of the franchise, but they probably would have made a few more issues cooperatively while still letting their friends do issues. I'm not sure City at War would have happened as it did, as it felt like a self-conscious effort by E&L to do a no-nonsense approach to the characters, perhaps in some way acknowledging how zany the franchise's reputation had become without directly referencing it. Return to New York might have happened, but I expect even that story might have had a bit more humor and levity to it too.

[CyberCubed]

You also have to realize no other company probably would have taken the risk on TMNT, look at how other shows like Bucky O'Hare failed in the same time period.

TMNT would have likely just remained an indie comic for as long as Pete/Kevin wanted it to.

[Prowler]

Tbh OP's question doesn't make much sense. I mean, if the first two seasons had been the same as they were in this scenario and Playmates had made the toyline as well... then how could this fail? Is this some hypothetical scenario where kids who originally got hooked to the FW cartoon from episode 1 on actually didn't in some kind of parallel universe?

It'd make more sense if you asked what if some other studio had taken care of the cartoon series and some other company had done the toyline.

[Spike Spiegel]

Does this scenario mean no 1990 movie?

That would make a huge difference.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Does this scenario mean no 1990 movie?

That would make a huge difference.

Yes. I forgot that, but added it now.

[ZariusTwo]

On one hand, I would'nt have gotten my favorite seasons (3, 7, 8, 10)
On the other hand, no Next Mutation

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The funny thing is that no one would have suspected the FW toon to be incomplete since season 2 ends on a very final note, with Shredder and Krang supposedly killed by the lava.

[oldmanwinters]

The funny thing is that no one would have suspected the FW toon to be incomplete since season 2 ends on a very final note, with Shredder and Krang supposedly killed by the lava.

Yeah, there is a real sense of finality to it. I had kinda forgotten there was no indication at the end of Return of the Technodrome that anybody inside might have survived. Shows today are so addicted to cliffhanger endings that they could never get away with a sense of closure like that nowadays.

[biganimefan]

Wow...what a dark, depressing AU! lol, j/k...somewhat. Turtles really was a huge lifeline for me back then.

But I think Mirage would have continued it's original series until it did in reality. Or it could have ended a few years earlier(like maybe by the time City at War would have come out). I think though that Turtles could have been tried again in the video format. Either live action or animated. BUT, I do think that if it were animated, we'd get something a lot closer to the Mirage origin. Say in this AU, cartoons aren't viewed largely as "just for kids" and we get something that makes serious use of the words "Teenage. Mutant. Ninja. Turtles." We might have gotten something fairly serious animated wise, or even live action.

[Spike Spiegel]

Perhaps there would have been a grittier reboot after Batman: The Animated Series hit the scene in '92. Definitely after Gargoyles...

Maybe something like the 1990 film would have existed regardless? Who's to say that those first two seasons wouldn't get a lot of syndicated reruns?

[ABrown]

What still surprises me is that the original cartoon was still active from seasons 8-10. Action cartoons just typically do NOT last that long. Five seasons for an action cartoon is a very good run, no matter what year, but not very many make it past that.

[Prowler]

What still surprises me is that the original cartoon was still active from seasons 8-10. Action cartoons just typically do NOT last that long. Five seasons for an action cartoon is a very good run, no matter what year, but not very many make it past that.
I was not surprised it was a long cartoon since, at some point, TMNT were the hottest thing on the planet. But to make it close to 200 episodes was ineed impressive.

There were about 3-4 instances where I feared the FW series would be over:

- Return of the Technodrome: The Technodrome sunk into lava with Krang and Shredder in it. I didn't expect them to survive. Hell, even the battle between Splinter and Shredder had that feel to it. A very Star Wars-like feel.

- The Big Blow Out: I mean... a 3 parter episode finale for a massive season? It felt like it was gonna be the end.

- Shredder Triumphant: Immediately the title of this episode caught my attention and I knew something big was gonna happen. Shredder and Krang finally outsmarted the Turtles for a while and it honestly felt like the Turtles were in danger at the hands of Shredder for the first time in ages. Hence why this episode felt like it could be the dead last episode of the series.

- Turtle Trek: Well the Turtles destroy the Technodrome yet again... maybe this time it'd be the end?

...oddly enough, I didn't expect Divide and Conquer to be the finale. When the episode ended, I expected Shredder and Krang to return for a few episodes for the Turtles to finally beat them for good, since it wasn't clear Shredder and Krang had been defeated when they returned in that 3 part episode in season 10. So when the next day I turned on the tv at the usual channel and usual time... and Turtle Tracks was on I was a bit disappointed heh

So yeah, I was a bit surprised and happy it got close to 200 episodes. Being a kid watching one new episode everyday was quite fun and it entertained me for about 6 months and a half or so.

But I was WAY more surprised over the 2k3 series longevity. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect it to reach 157 episodes or whatever that number was. Hell, not even 100 did I expect it to make. I honestly thought season 2 or season 3 would be the last season. Especially as I've heard that season 3 was gonna basically be the final battle with Ch'rell. It's funny how a show that wasn't as big as the other tow cartoons and is somewhat forgotten these days was able to get 7 seasons and about 3 changes or so. Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers. And a second Fast Forward season was planned even. It felt like this series was never going away, as it filled in my entire teenage years.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

During the upcoming years, I guess.

No Biker Mice from Mars

No (western) Power Rangers

No Extreme Dinosaurs

No Street Sharks

Maybe no 1990's Batman?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well, it's my understanding that the movie-deal was separate from the cartoon/toy deal, and came from the comic's popularity rather than the cartoon's. So, we'd probably still get the movie (though, who's to say the movie would lead to anything if the cartoon and toys already flopped).

Mirage TMNT would have probably been fine, probably doing better since there would be no "guest-era" to chase off some of it's readers and there would be less indie-comics fans denouncing E&L as "sell-outs" and turning their backs on TMNT. The Palladium RPG would proabably be going strong too for the same reason.

Good points though that "City at War" might not have happened, and thet E&L might have still grown apart after awhile. Here's a question, do you think their comic careers would have stayed mostly turtle-related or do you think they'd have gone on to do lots of other unrelated comic projects if TMNT hadn't become such a big deal?

So, much like if the cartoon/toy deal never happened. My guess is that Mirage would have kept up it's popularity as a comic book, and today would be known as a cult comic series like Bone, or Cerebus, or Sandman. Known to comic fans, and respectably successful, but not a household name that made it's creators millions. The difference here is that it probably wouldn't have gotten any film or TV adaptations in the future because that was already attempted and failed.

Unless of course, a Mirage fan in the TV or Film industries attributed the cartoon's failure to it's departure from the source material...

During the upcoming years, I guess.

*No Biker Mice from Mars
*No (western) Power Rangers
*No Extreme Dinosaurs
*No Street Sharks
*Maybe no 1990's Batman?
We'd probably still get '90s Batman and Power Rangers, but definitely no Street Sharks or Battle-Toads(which would be the "silver lining" to this).

[CyberCubed]

The 1990 movie only happened due to the popularity of the cartoon. Don't kid yourself, the movie deal would have never happened if TMNT wasn't a huge phenomenon and fad among kids at the time. You also have to realize 1989-1990 was also around the height of Turtlemania in U.S.

[Prowler]

The 1990 movie only happened due to the popularity of the cartoon. Don't kid yourself, the movie deal would have never happened if TMNT wasn't a huge phenomenon and fad among kids at the time. You also have to realize 1989-1990 was also around the height of Turtlemania in U.S.
This. Also, in some countries the FW series didn't start airing until 1990 or so... around the time the movie came out.

The comics were never popular to the point of getting a movie. If they were popular then more than 1% of the world's population would know of them, certainly... Hell, I don't think even 1% of the world's population has heard of the Mirage comics, let alone read them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Power Rangers.

Do you really belive we would get western Power Rangers? It felt they tried to ride the TMNT wave of successes.

[pferreira]

I'm pretty certain if the 80s cartoon failed that Eastman and Laird would have gone back to the comics. We would have got some dark, gritty revival in the mid-90s and maybe a gritty live action movie in the late 90s starring Wesley Snipes and John Leguizamo that would have flopped.

During the upcoming years, I guess.

*No Biker Mice from Mars
*No (western) Power Rangers
*No Extreme Dinosaurs
*No Street Sharks
*Maybe no 1990's Batman?No Squat Kats
No Samurai Pizza Kats
No Bucky O'Hare

Do you really belive we would get western Power Rangers? It felt they tried to ride the TMNT wave of successes.Nah I do feel Power Rangers was a separate thing. It had more in common with Captain Planet which was a massive success at the time.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Bucky O'Hare debuted as a comic in May 1984 (the same time as TMNT), so maybe we would get animated Bucky O'Hare. Maybe som years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_O%27Hare

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

The comics were never popular to the point of getting a movie. If they were popular then more than 1% of the world's population would know of them, certainly... Hell, I don't think even 1% of the world's population has heard of the Mirage comics, let alone read them.

They were popular to the point of getting a cartoon/toy deal in the first place. The idea that the Mirage comics were some kind of failure is a myth that hardcore FW fans like to perpetuate, but it really doesn't make sense. Yes, it was mainly the cartoon (and the movie, video games, etc.) that made TMNT a huge mainstream worldwide phenomenon, but that only happened because Mirage TMNT was already a hit with comic fans (which is a smaller audience but much more than 1% of the worlds population), and that attracted Playmates attention.

Whether or not the movie deal was related to the toy/toon deal, it started development at around the same time the cartoon did, so unless the cartoon flopping would have cancelled the movie in mid production the movie would still probably have come out.

Though, it probably would not have been as successful without every kid in the world wanting to see it.

Also, it's a fact that they got movie offers before the cartoon's success, but they were mostly stupid ones like the idea where they were played by famous comedians and fighting naked nuns. So, it might have been the cartoon that attracted a good movie deal. But, I remember reading that the movie deal that led to the movie we got coming at around the same time as the cartoon/toy deal, not sure if they were directly related.

As for other shows...

Bucky O'Hare comics would have happened, but I'm not sure about the show.

Swat Kats, I'm not sure. They don't seem too TMNT inspired to me.

TMNT was a big part of a big wave of anthropomorphic animal heroes at the time, but I'm not sure they were the source of that wave.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I can imagine if TMNT failed by 1989, series like this would become a bigger success.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Adventures_of_He-Man

[sdp]

Saban had been pitching Power Rangers for years and would've continued until he succeeded, partly what helped Power Rangers be picked up is that that year's Sentai Team had dinosaurs and it was thought it'd be good for American audiences and boom history was made.

TMNT had little influence on TMNT outside the name, "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" sounds influenced by the overly long name Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" had, but I don't think the "martial arts" craze the TMNT started had much of an influence on Power Rangers, a little bit sure but yeah Power Rangers made it on their own and the reason they took TMNT's popularity is because they were doing their own original thing while other shows mentioned here were only copying TMNT.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Saban had been pitching Power Rangers for years and would've continued until he succeeded, partly what helped Power Rangers be picked up is that that year's Sentai Team had dinosaurs and it was thought it'd be good for American audiences and boom history was made.

TMNT had little influence on TMNT outside the name, "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" sounds influenced by the overly long name Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" had, but I don't think the "martial arts" craze the TMNT started had much of an influence on Power Rangers, a little bit sure but yeah Power Rangers made it on their own and the reason they took TMNT's popularity is because they were doing their own original thing while other shows mentioned here were only copying TMNT.

So, did Karate Kid inspired for fiction based on Japanese martial arts?

[pferreira]

Bucky O'Hare debuted as a comic in May 1984 (the same time as TMNT), so maybe we would get animated Bucky O'Hare. Maybe som years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_O%27HareYeah I know but it was the success of TMNT that got Sunbow or whatever studio to cash in by making the cartoon series.

[Prowler]

They were popular to the point of getting a cartoon/toy deal in the first place. The idea that the Mirage comics were some kind of failure is a myth that hardcore FW fans like to perpetuate, but it really doesn't make sense. Yes, it was mainly the cartoon (and the movie, video games, etc.) that made TMNT a huge mainstream worldwide phenomenon, but that only happened because Mirage TMNT was already a hit with comic fans (which is a smaller audience but much more than 1% of the worlds population), and that attracted Playmates attention.

Whether or not the movie deal was related to the toy/toon deal, it started development at around the same time the cartoon did, so unless the cartoon flopping would have cancelled the movie in mid production the movie would still probably have come out.

Though, it probably would not have been as successful without every kid in the world wanting to see it.

Also, it's a fact that they got movie offers before the cartoon's success, but they were mostly stupid ones like the idea where they were played by famous comedians and fighting naked nuns. So, it might have been the cartoon that attracted a good movie deal. But, I remember reading that the movie deal that led to the movie we got coming at around the same time as the cartoon/toy deal, not sure if they were directly related.

As for other shows...

Bucky O'Hare comics would have happened, but I'm not sure about the show.

Swat Kats, I'm not sure. They don't seem too TMNT inspired to me.

TMNT was a big part of a big wave of anthropomorphic animal heroes at the time, but I'm not sure they were the source of that wave.

In no means was I trying to take a knock on Mirage comics, for the record.

I mean, "failure" isn't the right word since I doubt Laird and Eastman expected the Turtles to become as big as they were. The comics were independent, after all. If anything, they probably had a cult following or something.

[dragonside]

just for fun.

Let's say it didn't make it in America, but the kids in Japan ate it up.


I would say the super mutant legend style may have exploded and they would be quite different with humor equivalent to Beast Wars II & Beast Wars Neo, Saint Seiya style.

We'd have toys based on the Turtle Armors and .. it would slowly come back to North America in that form kind of like Power Rangers.

Peter Laird would not have done 2003 in that way. Maybe just do a full story about the Super Turtles (akin to DC Marvel shows), thinking Ninjas wouldn't make it in the market.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I would like to see some alternate timelines

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I would like to see some alternate timelines

I always saw FW tmnt as having an alternate timeline in Japan after Mark Pellengri on tmnt entity proposed the idea.

Basically, The Old Cartoon only got dubbed for a total of 104 episodes in Japan until Donatello's Badd Time, after which the 2 part OVA was aired and the series ended.

I see the OVA as canon to the Japanese dub only, while everything else post season 5 is not canon to it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Animated Disney series was a major hit during the late-1980's and early-1990's (Ducktales starting in September 1987). Maybe they would grow larger without the turtles.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

Saban had been pitching Power Rangers for years and would've continued until he succeeded, partly what helped Power Rangers be picked up is that that year's Sentai Team had dinosaurs and it was thought it'd be good for American audiences and boom history was made.

That and Jurassic Park was a hit of that year, so it was just lucky timing for them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

That and Jurassic Park was a hit of that year, so it was just lucky timing for them.

The dinosaur hit years began in 1987 with Dinosaucers, continued in 1988 with Denver, the Last Dinosaur, Dinoriders and the Land Before Time before culimating with the 1993 film version of Jurassic Park. Still in 1997, the Dinovengers and Extreme Dinosaurs tried to play on it.

[sdp]

The dinosaur hit years began in 1987 with Dinosaucers, continued in 1988 with Denver, the Last Dinosaur, Dinoriders and the Land Before Time before culimating with the 1993 film version of Jurassic Park. Still in 1997, the Dinovengers and Extreme Dinosaurs tried to play on it.

I don't know about that, yeah Dinosaurs have always been popular and we had a few shows in the 80s. As a kid my OTL before TMNT was dinosaurs and while I had plenty of toys and whatnot of dinosaurs, not many seemed to share my humongous love for dinosaurs until Jurassic Park, after that everyone wanted to be an paleontologist.

So the Dinocraze really was because of Jurassic Park, obviously dinosaurs were popular before then but not to that extent. If you think about it Denver was only seldom popular, Dinoriders didn't last too long as awesome as it was and Dinosaucers wasn't able to top transformers and faded away after one season. Only Land Before Time was a huge hit, and even then it didn't start getting annual sequels until Jurassic Park came out.

Similar in the 00's we've seen a few years were we've had some dinosaur content but it's never been a huge craze. When Jurassic World came out and became a huge hit that toppled Avengers and gave Star Wars a run for its money I thought a second wave of dinocraze would begin but it seemed not even Universal was prepared for it. For Jurassic World 2 Universal does seem better prepeared, let's hope we can get a new dinocraze again :D

[dragonside]

what if TMNT failed

but somebody decided to write about kung fu frogs?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

what if TMNT failed

but somebody decided to write about kung fu frogs?

Then there would be a cartoon one day where some street thugs mistake the frogs for ninja turtles.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Then there would be a cartoon one day where some street thugs mistake the frogs for ninja turtles.

Invasion of the Punk Turtles

[CyberCubed]

Here's an interesting thought, if TMNT never existed or failed, what big franchise do you think you'd be into now instead?

As I said since I grew up in the 80's and early 90's, I'd probably be a much bigger Batman fan than I am now. The Tim Burton Batman film came out in 1989, then B:TAS in 1992...so it was the perfect time for kids at that point to become big Batman fans. I love Batman, but I never got into the comics. I wonder if I'd be a huge DC fan right now if TMNT never existed.

Another one is Star Wars. Always loved it, but never got into the comics/novels. It was mostly just the movies, toys, and videogames for me. I wonder if I'd be a huge Star Wars nerd right now.

The other stuff like Pokemon and Dragonball Z didn't come till the late 90's, so that's far removed from the TMNT era and I got into this after TMNT "ended" anyway.

[Coola Yagami]

Batman TAS, Xmen TAS, Spiderman TAS, then Saint Seiya, Dragoball and Sailor Moon.

[sdp]

Well I'm guessing the same things I was into now just without TMNT or anthropomorphic heroes stuff since those were inspired by TMNT.

The biggest franchises as a kid for me without the above mentioned then it was Dinosaurs/Jurassic Park/Power Rangers/Saint Seiya/Dragon Ball/Simpsons/Videogames/Star Wars/Pokemon

I liked other stuff a lot like Mighty Max, Nicktoons, Cartoon Network shows, super heroes, etc so I had plenty to keep me occupied, I was also really into anime, this was before the anime boom in the US, I got to watch tons of anime as a kid on tv uncensored.

Batman which I liked a lot but I was never "crazy" about Batman as a kid if that makes any sense. I likely became a bigger Batman fan as an adult since he's the one franchise that makes the transition into "adults liking it" without anyone batting an eye.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Here's an alternate timeline. Continue if you want.

24 December 1988: Return of the Technodrome airs.

January 1989: MWS ceases production of the animated series, after just two seasons. (point of divergence)

Mid-1989: Playmates Toys announces no second line out TMNT action figures will be released, following low sales for Christmas 1988–1989. Production of a TMNT film is abandoned.

August 1989: Masters of the Universe 2 is released to cinemas in the USA.

September 1989: The final TMNT Adventures comic, part 2 of the "Return of the Shredder" animated series adaption, is published, following dropped sales.

October 1989: Season 2 of Dinoriders begins.

November 1989-January 1990: Dinoriders dominate the 1989–1990 Christmas and holiday season.

[oldmanwinters]

October 1989: Season 2 of Dinoriders begins.

November 1989-January 1990: Dinoriders dominate the 1989–1990 Christmas and holiday season.

I would have been strangely okay with this. Dino-Riders was my all-time favorite toyline but I have the sense that most of mainstream marketing culture somehow overlooked the franchise. Maybe it was because the big Dino figure sets were too high priced compared to something like TMNT that sold individual figures for less than $4 back in the day with the vehicle sets feeling like premium supplements rather than essentials to entry.

[ABrown]

Here's an interesting thought, if TMNT never existed or failed, what big franchise do you think you'd be into now instead?


I don't even have to play "what if". Transformers was my other passion before the original TMNT cartoon ever existed.

[sdp]

Yeah, I'm ok with a timeline where Dinoriders succeeds and TMNT doesn't. Dinosaurs were my first true love before my toddler self found TMNT. I still love dinosaurs but now I had a second love.

It still perplexes me that Dinoriders is so fondly remembered and people ask for a revival when the toyline was only somewhat successful and the show only lasted one season.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I'll continue the timeline below:

September 1990: Season 3 of Dinoriders begins, and has the characters travelling in time to various points in Earth's history. Other popular animated series are the New Adventures of Heman, produced by Filmation that still exists in this timeline, and Transformers.

September-December 1991: Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars becomes a major success.

September 1992: The popular time-travel Dinoriders leads to Hanna-Barbera producing new Flintstones and Jetsons episodes, watched by children who grew up with mothers and fathers watching the originals in the 1950's and 60's.

1992: Live-action films with Dinoriders and the Transformers score major successes in cinemas.

28 May 1993: Better done, the Super Mario Bros. live-action film becomes more successful than in our timeline.

1995: When anime and manga hit outside Japan as a major thing, the influence is less with the TMNT being almost forgotten among younger people.

February 2003: The animated "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" starts airing.

[inaheap]

We would have gotten TMNT figures from Bossfight Studios instead of Bucky. lol :lol:

Seriously though I do not like the idea of a no TMNT world. Glad it happened the way it did.

[Prowler]

Here's an interesting thought, if TMNT never existed or failed, what big franchise do you think you'd be into now instead?

As I said since I grew up in the 80's and early 90's, I'd probably be a much bigger Batman fan than I am now. The Tim Burton Batman film came out in 1989, then B:TAS in 1992...so it was the perfect time for kids at that point to become big Batman fans. I love Batman, but I never got into the comics. I wonder if I'd be a huge DC fan right now if TMNT never existed.

Another one is Star Wars. Always loved it, but never got into the comics/novels. It was mostly just the movies, toys, and videogames for me. I wonder if I'd be a huge Star Wars nerd right now.

The other stuff like Pokemon and Dragonball Z didn't come till the late 90's, so that's far removed from the TMNT era and I got into this after TMNT "ended" anyway.

Well TMNT isn't the only franchise I'm into. But which one would be number 1 in my heart? Probably a video game franchise like Zelda or Mario; I guess.

[CyberCubed]

I can't consider videogame franchises as big as TV/movie franchises. I play videogames all the time, but I wouldn't consider Mario, Zelda, etc. a fandom over a TV series.

[d_osborn]

I can't consider videogame franchises as big as TV/movie franchises. I play videogames all the time, but I wouldn't consider Mario, Zelda, etc. a fandom over a TV series.

You are sorely, sorely mistaken. :lol: The Nintendo fanbase is nuts.

[Prowler]

I can't consider videogame franchises as big as TV/movie franchises. I play videogames all the time, but I wouldn't consider Mario, Zelda, etc. a fandom over a TV series.

Dude ofc it's a fandom. Come on now, Zelda and especially Mario games have sold millions of copies since the 1980s. And lots of people are big fans of said franchises and will discuss both to lengths. Not to mention there's also other merch of them out there.

[CyberCubed]

You play videogames you don't watch them (most of the time), it's not the same as a fandom for TV shows.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Video games have huge fandoms, and many video games have pretty detailed stories just like tv shows.

The Mario games fandom eclipses the tmnt fandom for everything (movies, cartoons, comics) many times over.

[CyberCubed]

I know this, I've been on videogame forums since 1997. I'm just saying it's not like watching something. Videogames fandoms are separate from having a fandom over a long running TV series.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I know this, I've been on videogame forums since 1997. I'm just saying it's not like watching something. Videogames fandoms are separate from having a fandom over a long running TV series.

True. Its funny though, how some video games are discussed like they are tv shows with the plot and all. I see people discussing the story, the lore and the characters of the games at length down to very minute details like the what was the great war mentioned by Lt. Surge in Pokemon :lol:

[CyberCubed]

It probably helps that now tumblr exists for this sort of thing.

[d_osborn]

You play videogames you don't watch them (most of the time), it's not the same as a fandom for TV shows.
There's not a "viewing" prerequisite for being a fan of something.

[CyberCubed]

I played Nintendo games all through the 80's and 90's when the original TMNT cartoon was airing and when I was watching other cartoons like Batman, etc. I never considered videogame fandoms the same thing as show/movie fandoms.

[Chris]

Strangely enough people do just watch video games. I literally just read an interview with Amy Hennig about the cancelled Visceral Star Wars game and this is a quote from it;

"There is also this trend now that, as much as people protest and say, 'Why are you canceling a linear, story-based game? This is the kind of game we want,' people aren’t necessarily buying them. They’re watching somebody else play them online."

So it's not just a thing, it's actually an issue that could, long term, affect the types of games companies make.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Sometimes I enjoy watching Youtube lets plays to experience the story of a game if I don't wanna play it.

[CyberCubed]

I would never watch a videogame over playing it. Then again I was born in the 80's, I don't get the whole youtube generation.

[sdp]

Specific Game fandoms are smaller unless you count Gaming fandoms which incorporate all games, so I have to agree with Cubed.

But let's go back to the Dino-Rider timeline :D:D

[CyberCubed]

If TMNT never existed or failed, Power Rangers would have never been localized stateside most likely.

So I think Batman: TAS would have been even bigger than it was, it had to deal with competition from TMNT and Power Rangers at the time. Then I guess Spiderman and X-men: TAS would have continued.

But then again by 1997/1998 the anime craze would have still happened so Pokemon, Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon, Digimon, etc. would have killed off everything as usual like it did.

[sdp]

We already discussed this, Power Rangers would've happened since it's very different and Saban had been pitching the show for many years, it was finally picked up because of the Dinosaur theme when prior pitches didn't have it.

The martial arts of the TMNT didn't have a big effect on Power Rangers being picked up because of its martial arts, that 80s boom of martial arts had already finished and PRs started it again. The only influence from TMNT is the long title of "Mighty Morphin" since many shows included long descriptive titles because of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles but that's about it.

I wish the anime craze hadn't happened in the US, after that happened the US multi-nationals started acquiring the worldwide license rights for dubs and the rest of the world started getting censored dubs because of Americanized standards. Before that the rest of the world would get uncensored/original soundtrack faithful adaptations. Thankfully DBZ had already finished around most of the world when it began its popularity in the US, but Pokemon wasn't so lucky, we all got the crappy 4Kids version and everything after that pretty much. At last at animes aimed at kids, only exception I can think of is Digimon which did get uncensored dubs around this time.

[CyberCubed]

It is bizarre Pokemon has never had the original released overseas. When it first started they were trying so hard to pretend Pokemon was a cartoon and not an anime in the dub, even though just by the visual style alone and all those weird Japanese only anime gags you would never see in cartoons (that later shows like Teen Titans or Nick's TMNT use) appeared in it.

For the first few seasons it didn't really matter, but now the recent pokemon gens dubs like DP, XY, SM, etc. are completely ruined by the dubs. Not even talking about the voices, but the music changes are atrocious.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I personally loved the 4Kids dub of Pokemon, despite them calling rice balls doghnuts :lol: The voices for the main cast were pretty iconic and I loved some of the stuff they came up like the Pokerap and other songs not present in the Japanese dub.

I was one of those fans in 2006/2007 who was so outraged by the voice change from 4Kids to Pokemon USA that I stoppped watching the anime entirely after season 8. It was only with Sun and Moon that I started watchig the dub again, and I have to admit, they've grown on me. Pokemon USA has been dubbing since 2006 so all the new VAs are used to their roles and it once again feels nostalgic listening to them.

[CyberCubed]

Pokemon USA has been dubbing since 2006 so all the new VAs are used to their roles and it once again feels nostalgic listening to them.

Well it probably helps matters Ash and TR are the only older characters still around, besides the once in a blue moon Prof. Oak shows up. Besides a few old character cameos, none of the new characters from DP onward ever had any old voices so there's nothing to compare them to.

[sdp]

The original Engish and Spanish dub voices are great, it's the edits that kill it and everyone except japan got the 4kids American edits which is frankly unfair.

I was excited for the dub change because while I loved the original cast I thought PUSA/TPCi would be better than 4kids but they seem no different and we just have worse VAs. I still haven't gotten used to Ash even if the new dub has had more episodes than the others, and even new characters don't feel "right", I don't know why. I'm not even a too anal when it comes to dub changes, I usually don't mind them that much.

Pokemon is too repetitive for me to ever watch the original japanese version subtitled tho, so my only option is the dub.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

To be fair, some of the obscure VAs of 4Kids joined Pokemon USA after the whole drama finished and everything calmed down.

Famous examples are Gary Oak and Giovanni, who are still voiced by the same people who voiced them in their first appearances.

Pokemon USA is also more faithful to the Original Japanese script rather than making their own script and dialogue up as they go along like 4Kids did :lol: I found the 4Kids edits pretty funny and memorable though, so being faithful might come across as dull when no liberties are taken.

If we ever get a long running tmnt show again, I hope it doesn't get an entire cast change in the middle of the series like Pokemon did. That would cause an uproar of apocalyptic proportions in the drome.

[sdp]

All the original Voice Actors of the 4Kids Pokemon dub went to dub Dinosaur King (my review) (https://miscrave.com/articles/dinosaur-king/) and it's awesome.

The show has similar enough characters so Veronica Taylor, Rachael Lillis, Sean Schemmel, Eric Stewart, Madeleine Blaustein, Mike Pollock are all in it and voice characters similar to Ash, the gang, Team Rocket etc.

It actually feels you with the nostalgia of the Pokemon dub that was missed after they changed the actors. The show itself is also a Pokemon clone but with dinosaurs but it goes its own way and is super wacky. Super cool show, too bad Sega has abandoned the series, I would love more video games and a new show based on Dinosaur King.

[CyberCubed]

To be fair nobody could have predicted the pokemon anime would be running for 20 years, when the anime first started most expected it to just go on a few years and then end. If you went back in time to 1998 and told people Ash would still be the main character 20 years and 1000 eps later, along with Team Rocket still being around, people would have thought you were crazy.

[sdp]

Yes, I hate those never ending animes like Doraemon, I like my things to end. Pokemon really should've had a new cast member for the second series like most anime do in this type of shows, I really wonder why they stuck with the same cast when the games were obviously going for the "generations" thing.

[pferreira]

You are sorely, sorely mistaken. :lol: The Nintendo fanbase is nuts.As well as close minded when it comes to educating themselves on non-Nintendo history. :roll: