Kentucky school shooting: 2 students killed and 17 others injured

[Prowler]

Another school shooting in USA:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/23/us/kentucky-high-school-shooting/index.html

Man, why does this keep happening?

[plastroncafe]

No one really knows.

[ProphetofGanja]

Because it's hard to get access to good mental healthcare and it's easy to get guns

[mrmaczaps]

Another school shooting in USA:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/23/us/kentucky-high-school-shooting/index.html

Man, why does this keep happening?

Because scumbags take those "gun free zone" signs as a challenge.... And Teachers & other staff cannot be armed... or properly teach... or bitch slap kids when they get out of line.

Criminals think twice about attacking anyone who can fight back. Easy targets are easy after all.

[plastroncafe]

I take it back, apparently we do know why these things happen.

Man, the truth is way more victim-blaming that I'm strictly comfortable with.

[Autbot_Benz]

Because scumbags take those "gun free zone" signs as a challenge.... And Teachers & other staff cannot be armed... or properly teach... or bitch slap kids when they get out of line.

Criminals think twice about attacking anyone who can fight back. Easy targets are easy after all.

oh conservacapz don't you ever change. Ya lets let teachers hit kids and have guns Let me know when your NRA check comes in the mail

https://i.imgur.com/OTshcdf.jpg

[Sumac]

Man, the truth is way more victim-blaming that I'm strictly comfortable with.
Because, ultimately it is what it is?
Not in a sense, that teachers should have guns - this is idiotic, but in a sense that those shooter are psychopathic losers, who lose their minds, blame and kill everyone for their troubles, because, their mental state is so fragile they can not face the fact that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they should improve themselves or seek help instead of killing others for their problems.

[CyberCubed]

As someone who has younger siblings in public school, it is terrifying to know this could happen literally anywhere at any time.

[Andrew NDB]

Because it's hard to get access to good mental healthcare and it's easy to get guns

I don't know that a lot/any of these shooters are guys that shopped around for a good psychiatrist or mental health doctor and then instead went out to buy guns to murder a bunch of people because their health insurance wouldn't cover it.

[sdp]

As someone who has younger siblings in public school, it is terrifying to know this could happen literally anywhere at any time.

If I were still studying HS I'd be somewhat alarmed, I remember when I was in Jr. High and HS, we used to have "intruder" drills we all f-cked around during them since they seemed like something we'd never do, but every time these things are happening closer and closer to where I went to school. I'd be even more alarmed if my future kids were in HS right now.

All it takes is one dumb person and access to guns. The problem is I knew plenty of people like that when I was in HS. Hell a recent graduate from my city was recently arrested for animal abuse which 4chan helped track down funny enough. There were plenty of people like him and all it takes is one bad day for them to say "**** it".

Same with teachers having sex with students, the fantasy of all HS boys but I've now read stories of teachers from schools that I went to happening.


I remember as an angsty teen I wanted this t-shirt:
https://i.imgur.com/tPgtOjN.gif

Back then I don't think it was that much in bad taste, but I definitely do now, you can probably fill up the tour dates with only one year while this one needed almost a decade, Scary.

This Onion article couldn't be more true:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358)

[TurtleWA]

It wouldn’t hurt to have smaller class sizes and better training for teachers. So teachers can have daily interactions with students not just lecture. Get to know the students personalities and life struggles. Be trained to know the signs of wanting to hurt others. Know when a professional referral is necessary and not let at risk kids go unnoticed.

[plastroncafe]

It wouldn’t hurt to have smaller class sizes and better training for teachers. So teachers can have daily interactions with students not just lecture. Get to know the students personalities and life struggles. Be trained to know the signs of wanting to hurt others. Know when a professional referral is necessary and not let at risk kids go unnoticed.

Unfortunately that sort of thing doesn't immediately help kids pass standardized tests, and that's kind of where public education is focused right now.

Well that, and depending on where you happen to be, keeping the lights on.

[TurtleWA]

Unfortunately that sort of thing doesn't immediately help kids pass standardized tests, and that's kind of where public education is focused right now.

Well that, and depending on where you happen to be, keeping the lights on.

Staying a float, money and test scores are priority in other words. Safety is a far far away dream. Sadly it would have to be like many schools a day being shot up for something to radically change.

[Andrew NDB]

I say mandatory firearm training for teachers (then they need to go to the range at least once a quarter), pistol kept in a secure lockbox in the classroom accessible only to the teacher (whether it's a key, combination, biometrics, whatever is most secure and makes the most sense). It's not a perfect solution but it would save a lot of lives.

As is? The moment a gunman enters a school, they can basically walk around, go wherever, shoot whoever for at least a good 20-30 minutes or more completely uncontested before there is even the slightest chance of any police arriving at the scene to assess the situation and intervene. Those aren't good odds and that's not a good system. That's a "fish in a barrel" system.

[sdp]

That's absolutely crazy but I'll stop right there.

[TurtleWA]

I say mandatory firearm training for teachers (then they need to go to the range at least once a quarter), pistol kept in a secure lockbox in the classroom accessible only to the teacher (whether it's a key, combination, biometics, whatever). It's not a perfect solution but it would save a lot of lives.

As is? The moment a gunman enters a school, they can basically walk around, go wherever, shoot whoever for at least a good 20-30 minutes or more completely uncontested before there is even the slightest chance of any police arriving at the scene to assess the situation and intervene. Those aren't good odds and that's not a good system. That's a "fish in a barrel" system.

Then you would have more teachers gone wild news stories. Teachers shooting up students. Or shootings happening when substitutes are on duty. It’s already to late as soon as a gunman steps on school property the damage is done.

[Andrew NDB]

Then you would have more teachers gone wild news stories. Teachers shooting up students.

Why on earth would you think that?

Or shootings happening when substitutes are on duty.

The odds are pretty good the other 10+ teachers in the school are not substitute teachers on the same day. And by this example, why not demand the substitute teachers get the same training? You want to substitute teach in X District, you better be hitting the range, etc..

It’s already to late as soon as a gunman steps on school property the damage is done.

That's a horrible, defeatist attitude. I mean, it's absolutely the case right now but surely we can do better that just having everyone hide under desks throwing "thoughts and prayers" at the shooter(s) marching down the hallways.

[TurtleWA]

Why on earth would you think that?



The odds are pretty good the other 10+ teachers in the school are not substitute teachers on the same day.



That's a horrible, defeatist attitude. I mean, it's absolutely the case right now but surely we can do better that just having everyone hide under desks throwing "thoughts and prayers" at the shooter(s) marching down the hallways.

You would still have an old west shootout at school traumatizing many people. Early prevention is best. It’s about saving all the lives not just a few.

At least guards, metal detectors and bullet proof glass. Don’t banks have those things? Money in a vault is better protected than human life.

[Andrew NDB]

You would still have an old west shootout at school traumatizing many people.

You'd rather these many people be potentially dead than potentially traumatized? If you're a student in the middle of a school shooting, chances are you're probably going to be traumatized anyway. And getting teachers proper firearm safety and training would avoid an "old west shootout."

Early prevention is best.

Of course. But failing that... just lay down and cross your fingers? Really?

[plastroncafe]

More effective to put a fence before the cliff, than keep an ambulance at the bottom of it.

[Sumac]

You would still have an old west shootout at school traumatizing many people.
Better,'em be traumatized, than dead.
Can't see how that can be even a question.

[TurtleWA]

You'd rather these many people be potentially dead than potentially traumatized? If you're a student in the middle of a school shooting, chances are you're probably going to be traumatized anyway. And getting teachers proper firearm safety and training would avoid an "old west shootout."



Of course. But failing that... just lay down and cross your fingers? Really?

Don’t trained military still have things called friendly fire and collateral damage. I’m not super familiar with the terms. But I’d imaging in the heat of the moment Mr Smith the math teacher may not be on his A Game.

[TurtleWA]

Better,'em be traumatized, than dead.
Can't see how that can be even a question.

If I had to pick between those two things I would agree to pick trauma over death yes. However I would like to see a solution that avoids both.

[Andrew NDB]

Don’t trained military still have things called friendly fire and collateral damage. I’m not that familiar with the terms. But I’d imaging in the heat of the moment Mr Smith the math teacher may not be on his A Game.

Mr. Smith the math teacher better have had a good score in accuracy on last quarter's trip to the gun range or Mr. Smith won't be the math teacher anymore.

And better a small chance of friendly fire in putting the brakes on a 100% chance of as much not-so-friendly fire as the shooter feels like raining down anywhere in the school, at will, than no chance of survival at all.

[AquaParade]

Arming the teachers with guns is an interesting idea. Not sure if I agree with it or not. Don't have a solution myself to suggest.

I do wonder if that exacerbates the problem though, rather than stemming it at the root. Not to say that idea makes the issue worse, but I don't know if "guns + guns + guns" is the correct solution.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that better healthcare and harder to access guns would stop this. These are things that should probably be done regardless though, so it's a good place to start.

[ProphetofGanja]

Maybe security guards?

Like, yeah. How is this not the obvious solution, at least for now.

Were school resource officers not a thing at y'all's schools? Police officers stationed on-site? When I was in high school I thought the officers and metal detectors were a bit Orwellian but they're considerably more preferable than more deaths.

[plastroncafe]

And if Mr Smith the math teacher accidentally hits one of his kids while trying to combat an assailant, then he won't be a math teacher much longer either.

Better still, when the authorities DO arrive, Mr Smith will then have to worry about whether he's seen as an assailant.

All the police have to do is feel threatened.
And with that in mind, yeah, let's put more police in schools too.
Because nothing aids the learning environment more than treating your students like criminals from day one.

[ProphetofGanja]

All the police have to do is feel threatened.
And with that in mind, yeah, let's put more police in schools too.
Because nothing aids the learning environment more than treating your students like criminals from day one.

That's a whole other can of worms that deserves its own thread if we want to get into the use of excessive/lethal force by the police in unwarranted situations

[plastroncafe]

That's a whole other can of worms that deserves its own thread if we want to get into the use of excessive/lethal force by the police in unwarranted situations

Agreed, but...I thought it could use a bit of lipservice here with folks suggesting that having more authority around will automatically decrease violence in schools.

[Andrew NDB]

Agreed, but...I thought it could use a bit of lipservice here with folks suggesting that having more authority around will automatically decrease violence in schools.

But we've already tried -- thoroughly -- having no authority... and look what happens, over and over again.

[ProphetofGanja]

Agreed, but...I thought it could use a bit of lipservice here with folks suggesting that having more authority around will automatically decrease violence in schools.

I completely agree, I just think it's a more sound idea to have people stationed at schools whose sole job is to ensure security and safety, rather than add another duty to the already overworked and underpaid teachers.

But yeah, then we get into the issue of police needing to police themselves, a whole "who watches the watchmen" type deal.

[Andrew NDB]

I completely agree, I just think it's a more sound idea to have people stationed at schools whose sole job is to ensure security and safety, rather than add another duty to the already overworked and underpaid teachers.

But yeah, then we get into the issue of police needing to police themselves, a whole "who watches the watchmen" type deal.

Dedicated, armed security guards would be something, at least.

[TurtleWA]

Agreed, but...I thought it could use a bit of lipservice here with folks suggesting that having more authority around will automatically decrease violence in schools.

I think there is a big difference between something like gated entrance to a school that has a security officer. Maybe a metal detector at the doors. And a police officer patrolling the halls looking for “suspicious thugs.” I don’t think anyone wants an armed hall monitor.

[plastroncafe]

But we've already tried -- thoroughly -- having no authority... and look what happens, over and over again.

I don't believe this is at all true.

There's a lot that could be done to stop stuff like this, but...you'd have to be a SJW to suggest it, and people won't want to pay for it.
Of course, people don't want to pay for what they've already got, which in my home school district isn't enough money to pay for full time custodians.

I think the gunhappy people should start teaching.

[Andrew NDB]

As long as they're armed. Walkie talkies and tough talking won't cut it.

[Candy Kappa]

Seeing armed guards or armed teaches as a valid "solution" is as alien to me as a ****ing Lovecraftian elder gods in the flesh. Like holy ****, fix your issues with mental health, healthcare and proper gun regulation and teach some respect for lethal weapons, not pile more crap on students like trigger happy wannnabee-cops itching for "action".

[AquaParade]

Now I'm wondering why campus security isn't a common practice.

10-15 years ago, it may have seemed a little too "big brother", but in the current climate, it seems necessary.

[plastroncafe]

Seeing armed guards or armed teaches as a valid "solution" is as alien to me as a ****ing Lovecraftian elder gods in the flesh. Like holy ****, fix your issues with mental health, healthcare and proper gun regulation and teach some respect for lethal weapons, not pile more crap on students like trigger happy wannnabee-cops itching for "action".

We're Americans, we don't historically have a great sense of The Long Game.
SO long as it looks like it's working, it's working...regardless of actual efficacy.

I'll never forget the front page of the local news paper when airport security decided liquids weren't allowed through security: Big ol' picture of random security guard just dumping a bottle of clear liquid into a trashcan of presumably other liquids.
This should horrify anyone who's ever taken basic chemistry. You just don't randomly dispose of unknown reagents that way. It's dangerous.

But it looks good and efficient, so...they went with it.

My hometown school district had to lay off the entire custodial staff due to budget cuts, but people want armed security guards posted at the doors.

[TurtleWA]

Now I'm wondering why campus security isn't a common practice.

10-15 years ago, it may have seemed a little too "big brother", but in the current climate, it seems necessary.

So true, I agree.

We're Americans, we don't historically have a great sense of The Long Game.
SO long as it looks like it's working, it's working...regardless of actual efficacy.

I'll never forget the front page of the local news paper when airport security decided liquids weren't allowed through security: Big ol' picture of random security guard just dumping a bottle of clear liquid into a trashcan of presumably other liquids.
This should horrify anyone who's ever taken basic chemistry. You just don't randomly dispose of unknown reagents that way. It's dangerous.

But it looks good and efficient, so...they went with it.

My hometown school district had to lay off the entire custodial staff due to budget cuts, but people want armed security guards posted at the doors.

If it ever happened it would most likely be a separate federal funding source. Not really something that a school needs to figure out how to budget for. Last time I checked metal detectors only discriminate against metal. Bring all the mouth wash to school you want.

[joe-eyeball]

Whether arming teachers and other school staff is a feasible solution I do know that an overwhelming majority of these mass shooters when facing an equal force (i.e. someone with a gun) they are either shot by another armed person or they quickly shoot themselves. Of course this isn’t always the case but from what I’ve seen it seems to go this way more often than not.

I’m all for a law abiding citizen being able to protect themselves and their loved ones with the best means available. I would not have a problem with teachers that are well trained in firearms use protecting my kids at school. I would however prefer I be the one carrying the gun and watching over my kids but I can’t be with them every minute of every day.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Funny how shootings now have to have big casualty counts now to even warrant discussion. Just the day before the one in Ky, a kid here in Texas walked into thw cafeteria of his school, and shot his former girlfriend and barely missed another kid. The ONLY reason he didn't continue the spree was that he ran out of ammo and fled. Those kids in the cafeteria that day got lucky. Not only did the girl survive, but he was stopped while still in the property and arrested. But all anyone outside our area wants to talk about is the one where they weren't so lucky. Interesting the way people have just gotten used to these things and only take notice when there are massive deaths or injuries.

[plastroncafe]

That event also has the one-two punch of domestic violence and the system working, neither of which are big news gets.

[AquaParade]

Funny how shootings now have to have big casualty counts now to even warrant discussion. Just the day before the one in Ky, a kid here in Texas walked into thw cafeteria of his school, and shot his former girlfriend and barely missed another kid. The ONLY reason he didn't continue the spree was that he ran out of ammo and fled. Those kids in the cafeteria that day got lucky. Not only did the girl survive, but he was stopped while still in the property and arrested. But all anyone outside our area wants to talk about is the one where they weren't so lucky. Interesting the way people have just gotten used to these things and only take notice when there are massive deaths or injuries.

Yes, it's strange how accustomed we've become. It's easy to feel quite helpless and like you're slowly sliding down the conveyor belt into this kind of unavoidable terror-filled future.
There seems to be no reasoning with this kind of crazy. Right now my feeling is that change will only come from a slow but sure cultural shift. Not just laws, but a different way of thinking or evolution. Tall order.

[Sumac]

Yes, it's strange how accustomed we've become. It's easy to feel quite helpless and like you're slowly sliding down the conveyor belt into this kind of unavoidable terror-filled future.
And how we should react?

People die all the time. Most of the time you are completely helpless to do anything. Just accept it and try to help where you can and don't let other things weight you down - it's a sure way to madness.

Also, impression is just that: an impression, which exists only because new "social media" gives you more access to more news. I am pretty sure, if you go and find all cases all violence in the schools for the past decades - it most likely will be close to how it is nowadays. Just before you didn't had ways to know about it..

[Andrew NDB]

And that's just here in the states. Every day something horrible is happening somewhere, whether it's busloads of people getting machine-gunned in Egypt, the 30 families a day getting mutilated by the cartels in Mexico, or the women getting openly burned alive in the streets of Guatemala.

Is this some new thing? Of course not. People are just up in arms about it on their keyboards more nowadays, doing quality loud, mutual complaining with one another over the internet while changing nothing.

[TurtleWA]

Yeah horrible things have always happen. But I don’t think more people becoming aware of all these horrible things is bad. Modern communication tech has helped many become aware of what they probably would have never known about years ago. And more awareness is good right? Its just the tragic incidents have to impact the eyes and ears of people with power and not only online folks.

[mrmaczaps]

Whether arming teachers and other school staff is a feasible solution I do know that an overwhelming majority of these mass shooters when facing an equal force (i.e. someone with a gun) they are either shot by another armed person or they quickly shoot themselves. Of course this isn’t always the case but from what I’ve seen it seems to go this way more often than not.

I’m all for a law abiding citizen being able to protect themselves and their loved ones with the best means available. I would not have a problem with teachers that are well trained in firearms use protecting my kids at school. I would however prefer I be the one carrying the gun and watching over my kids but I can’t be with them every minute of every day.

You understand. This is how it should be everywhere. No gun free zones at all. We have plenty of gun laws, too many really. Criminals don't follow the law. If they want it, guns or drugs, they find it. More regulation doesn't work. If a criminal knows there is a chance they'll get shot trying to shoot up a place, they're going to think twice.

I'm also not even remotely suggesting people just carry guns because 'Merica, most States have minimal requirements to get a permit, even the States with Constitutional Carry. Get one, learn how to use it and then carry it ever day. Its actually saved my hide twice in the year and a half that i've carried. This asinine notion that a sign posted will save lives is asinine. Same as the comic book artists that claim they'd just punch someone with a gun, holstered, at conventions just because they don't like them. Not one of the cons I've been to have even noticed and all the artists I've met are still drawing... lol.

Face your fears. Heft a gun, go to a range, shoot off a few dozen rounds. Pewtherapy works wonders.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You understand. This is how it should be everywhere. No gun free zones at all. We have plenty of gun laws, too many really. Criminals don't follow the law. If they want it, guns or drugs, they find it. More regulation doesn't work. If a criminal knows there is a chance they'll get shot trying to shoot up a place, they're going to think twice.

Considering how pretty much all of our public massacres end with the shooter being killed by the authorities or taking their own life, I think you're placing FAR too much importance on the deterrent of armed defenders.

These people are sick; pretty sure none of them really give a crap if they make it out alive at the end.

[Andrew NDB]

These people are sick; pretty sure none of them really give a crap if they make it out alive at the end.

It's true. No one is walking into a school with an assault rifle unloading on people is doing so with the remote expectation that they're going to be walking away from it, nor would anyone doing that be concerned with adhering to the latest gun laws.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's true. No one is walking into a school with an assault rifle unloading on people is doing so with the remote expectation that they're going to be walking away from it, nor would anyone doing that be concerned with adhering to the latest gun laws.

"Oh no, if I do this, I'll be breaking gun regulations!"
"Oh no, if I do this, I'll probably end up dead!"

Those are rational thoughts. Not happening in these people.

[plastroncafe]

The criminals don't follow the law argument conveniently neglects the fact that laws give a wronged party avenues for redress.

The speed limit's not going to keep most people from speeding, but guess who's going to be at fault should the speeder get into an accident and harm another person.

If you don't like no gun zones, I would highly suggest not going to them.

And I'll be honest, I don't think the people who pull these Mass school shootings are mentally ill, I think they're entitled.
The one that no one talked about where the guy came in and shot his ex-girlfriend, that's not mental illness that's entitlement.

[Andrew NDB]

If you don't like no gun zones, I would highly suggest not going to them.

What are you supposed to do if that's the school district you in, and that's where your kid has to go to?

And I'll be honest, I don't think the people who pull these Mass school shootings are mentally ill, I think they're entitled.

In what way? I mean, if we agree that the shooters going into schools killing a bunch of kids aren't expecting to live... they're basically suicidal, same as the guys that want to kill themself by drawing empty guns on cops ("suicide by cop"). If that doesn't denote some kind of mental illness (at the very, very least some heightened form of depression), I don't know what does.

[AquaParade]

Considering how pretty much all of our public massacres end with the shooter being killed by the authorities or taking their own life, I think you're placing FAR too much importance on the deterrent of armed defenders.

These people are sick; pretty sure none of them really give a crap if they make it out alive at the end.

Great point. I think this is deceptively easy to overlook.

[plastroncafe]

What are you supposed to do if that's the school district you in, and that's where your kid has to go to?


Your kid doesn't have to go to the public school that your districted in.

In what way? I mean, if we agree that the shooters going into schools killing a bunch of kids aren't expecting to live... they're basically suicidal, same as the guys that want to kill themself by drawing empty guns on cops ("suicide by cop"). If that doesn't denote some kind of mental illness (at the very, very least some heightened form of depression), I don't know what does.

I gave a specific example.
That boy went into the school to shoot his ex-girlfriend, and anyone who got in his way. His ex-girlfriend, meaning at some point she told him no and he thought her no was the wrong answer.

He was using the very same logic of deterrence that y'all are expressing here. That having a gun means no one will stand up to you, he was wrong.

And I think you're confusing having depression with being depressed. They're not the same thing.

[Andrew NDB]

Your kid doesn't have to go to the public school that your districted in.

Since when? In WA that's very much the case. i.e., if your house falls on this side of X street, your kid has to go to this high school; if your house falls on the other side of X street, your kid has to go to this other high school.

[plastroncafe]

Since when? In WA that's very much the case. i.e., if your house falls on this side of X street, your kid has to go to this high school; if your house falls on the other side of X street, your kid has to go to this other high school.

Well if you're insistent on not having to pay out of pocket for school, then yeah. But you don't have to send your child to public school.

There's home school, there's private school...
A quick Google tells me that people are trying to get school choice on the ballot, you may want to get involved in that Grassroots movement.

[Andrew NDB]

There's home school, there's private school...

Nobody can afford that.

A quick Google tells me that people are trying to get school choice on the ballot, you may want to get involved in that Grassroots movement.

What for? They're all "gun free zones."

[plastroncafe]

That's going to come as a shock to all the people I know who homeschool.

But we digress.
As a mentally ill person I am more than a bit tired for me and mine being blamed for the faux entitlement of others.

[joe-eyeball]

Considering how pretty much all of our public massacres end with the shooter being killed by the authorities or taking their own life, I think you're placing FAR too much importance on the deterrent of armed defenders.

These people are sick; pretty sure none of them really give a crap if they make it out alive at the end.

It's true. No one is walking into a school with an assault rifle unloading on people is doing so with the remote expectation that they're going to be walking away from it, nor would anyone doing that be concerned with adhering to the latest gun laws.

This is all true but what do the overwhelming majority of these massacres have in common? GUN FREE ZONES!!! If you are a sicko intent on doing maximum damage of course you go to the places where nobody is able to meet you with equal force! Most criminals have a problem with the police but they don’t go to a police station to shoot one! I think it’s fair to say that these sickos have an agenda when they set out to do these terrible things so if you can fight back with equal force I absolutely believe the damage can be minimized. Those no firearms signs have never deterred a criminal from committing horrible acts if anything those signs say “please come in and fleece the helpless sheep”!

I have a concealed carry and have had to pull a firearm twice in self defense and in both instances not a single shot was fired but the situation was resolved effectively and the opposition I was up against was dealt with by the authorities and I/others walked away unharmed.

[Redeemer]

Nobody can afford that.



What for? They're all "gun free zones."

Homeschool shouldn't be expensive :lol:
But Private schools are definitely expensive. I know in some areas like mine. Families can send their children to private school at the city's cost, if they live in an area where their public school is considered "failing" which is most of the schools around here.

[Andrew NDB]

Homeschool shouldn't be expensive :lol:

I was responding to the option there that wasn't a joke. My wife and I aren't teachers, and the idea of either one of us quitting our day job to play FAKE teacher at home is neither sustainable or realistic... but certainly not an option of any kind.

[Sumac]

Yeah horrible things have always happen. But I don’t think more people becoming aware of all these horrible things is bad.
I think this is bad, because, it instills paranoia and depression in people.

I am not saying news sites should keep quite if something bad happens, but the problem is that news agencies LOVE to show primarily bad news, because, they make ratings.
And more people consume bad news the more paranoid and depressed they become. And more divided. In many ways current situation has originated, because of constant fear-mongering and paranoia, instilled by news.

As a mentally ill person I am more than a bit tired for me and mine being blamed for the faux entitlement of others.
Oh, yes, as always, PC finds a way to make another "tearful" argument about herself. :D

You probably should finally learn that when people speak about someone, they don't mean literally you. Which is a common sentiment among "internet-lefties".

[plastroncafe]

I was responding to the option there that wasn't a joke. My wife and I aren't teachers, and the idea of either one of us quitting our day job to play FAKE teacher at home is neither sustainable or realistic... but certainly not an option of any kind.

Oh I wasn't joking. I know people who've homeschooled for reasons far less severe than being actively concerned for the physical safety of their children.

Consider reaching out to your local community. They can probably help with subjects you and your wife feel like you'd need help with.

[TurtleWA]

The criminals don't follow the law argument conveniently neglects the fact that laws give a wronged party avenues for redress.

The speed limit's not going to keep most people from speeding, but guess who's going to be at fault should the speeder get into an accident and harm another person.

If you don't like no gun zones, I would highly suggest not going to them.

And I'll be honest, I don't think the people who pull these Mass school shootings are mentally ill, I think they're entitled.
The one that no one talked about where the guy came in and shot his ex-girlfriend, that's not mental illness that's entitlement.

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) Could possibly work. And maybe some of the shooters also have co-occuring disorders such as a personality disorder and substance use disorder.

[plastroncafe]

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) Could possibly work.

Maybe?
But we'd need them to be seen by a shrink to be certain.

[TurtleWA]

Maybe?
But we'd need them to be seen by a shrink to be certain.

Very difficult to see a professional considering they are deceased. Perhaps science can advance enough that postmortem brain scans could be used to determine if mental illness was present. But what does it really matter because it would not help the victims breathe air again.

[plastroncafe]

Very difficult to see a professional considering they are deceased. Perhaps science can advance enough that postmortem brain scans could be used to determine if mental illness was present. But what does it really matter because it would not help the victims breathe air again.

Ha, well yeah...there is that.
I'm actually kind of curious whether some forms of mental illness are detectable in solely the gross anatomy. I mean, so many of them are the result of non-neurotypical neurotransmitter generation/release/function, that I'd be curious to know if straight up histology would be enough for a postmortem.

Sadly, more Medical Neurology isn't on the docket this semester.

[TurtleWA]

Ha, well yeah...there is that.
I'm actually kind of curious whether some forms of mental illness are detectable in solely the gross anatomy. I mean, so many of them are the result of non-neurotypical neurotransmitter generation/release/function, that I'd be curious to know if straight up histology would be enough for a postmortem.

Sadly, more Medical Neurology isn't on the docket this semester.

Only time will tell but I’m sure people are working on it. Just google PTSD and brain scans or mental illness brain scans. Info for days.

[TurtleWA]

I think this is bad, because, it instills paranoia and depression in people.

I am not saying news sites should keep quite if something bad happens, but the problem is that news agencies LOVE to show primarily bad news, because, they make ratings.
And more people consume bad news the more paranoid and depressed they become.

People need not react negatively to bad news. Could motivate some to join red cross or something.

People react differently to bad news. It may contribute to some people’s paranoia and depression. But not everyone. Some may just become desensitized. Or remain unaffected. It may take one news story for some while others it takes repeated exposure. Or nothing happens from watching the news except maybe starting a foundation or charity.

Seems near scapegoating. Reminds me of how video games and heavy metal music gets blamed for things. I know I hear repeated bad news often from multiple news sources. I’m not paranoid or depressed because of it. Those issues are because of my parents. LOL

[Sumac]

People need not react negatively to bad news. Could motivate some to join red cross or something.

People react differently to bad news. It may contribute to some people’s paranoia and depression. But not everyone. Some may just become desensitized. Or remain unaffected. It may take one news story for some while others it takes repeated exposure. Or nothing happens from watching the news except maybe starting a foundation or charity.

Seems near scapegoating. Reminds me of how video games and heavy metal music gets blamed for things. I know I hear repeated bad news often from multiple news sources. I’m not paranoid or depressed because of it. Those issues are because of my parents. LOL
If you have nothing, but bad news surrounding you 24/7 - than it is a sure way to paranoia. And since TV and Internet care about ratings they try to bring as much bad news news as possible.

Yes, for some people it might be a motivation to do something, but for most people - it's just source of irritation and depression, because, most people are busy with daily lives to join Red Cross or whatever.

I've experienced this effect on myself several years ago, so I know what I am talking about.

And I am not talking about you - don't become second PC, please.

[plastroncafe]

People need not react negatively to bad news. Could motivate some to join red cross or something.

People react differently to bad news. It may contribute to some people’s paranoia and depression. But not everyone. Some may just become desensitized. Or remain unaffected. It may take one news story for some while others it takes repeated exposure. Or nothing happens from watching the news except maybe starting a foundation or charity.

Seems near scapegoating. Reminds me of how video games and heavy metal music gets blamed for things. I know I hear repeated bad news often from multiple news sources. I’m not paranoid or depressed because of it. Those issues are because of my parents. LOL

I remember during undergrad a social psych paper that studied violence in children. What they found was that children who modeled their behavior on violent media were less violent when they were exposed to a grounding adult presence. Basically, if parents talked to their kids about what they were watching they were less likely to model the violent behavior were consuming from the media.

It's less the media, and more what we do before/during/after we consume it.
Who knows, maybe a stronger, more cohesive and less nihilistic community could have helped the kid who went looking to kill his ex-girlfriend.

[TurtleWA]

If you have nothing, but bad news surrounding you 24/7 - than it is a sure way to paranoia. And since TV and Internet care about ratings they try to bring as much bad news news as possible.

Yes, for some people it might be a motivation to do something, but for most people - it's just source of irritation and depression, because, most people are busy with daily lives to join Red Cross or whatever.

I've experienced this effect on myself several years ago, so I know what I am talking about.

And I am not talking about you - don't become second PC, please.

I never said you were talking about me. I used myself as an example that not everyone becomes depressed or paranoid. The same way you are using yourself as an example that some people do. I don’t think we can say either way how most people are affected or how they react. We only know about how ourselves and maybe people in our daily lives react. We do not know all the people who consume media and the mood it may or may not put them in after consuming said media.

[TurtleWA]

I remember during undergrad a social psych paper that studied violence in children. What they found was that children who modeled their behavior on violent media were less violent when they were exposed to a grounding adult presence. Basically, if parents talked to their kids about what they were watching they were less likely to model the violent behavior were consuming from the media.

It's less the media, and more what we do before/during/after we consume it.
Who knows, maybe a stronger, more cohesive and less nihilistic community could have helped the kid who went looking to kill his ex-girlfriend.

Sounds about right.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I can buy into that.

[Sumac]

I never said you were talking about me. I used myself as an example that not everyone becomes depressed or paranoid. The same way you are using yourself as an example that some people do. I don’t think we can say either way how most people are affected or how they react. We only know about how ourselves and maybe people in our daily lives react. We do not know all the people who consume media and the mood it may or may not put them in after consuming said media.
Actually, it is more or less proven fact that bad news can contribute to development of anxiety and depression.
This is the same reason why propaganda is a thing.

I know, it is probably not the best source, but still. (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/12/news-is-bad-rolf-dobelli)

[TurtleWA]

Actually, it is more or less proven fact that bad news can contribute to development of anxiety and depression.
This is the same reason why propaganda is a thing.

I know, it is probably not the best source, but still. (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/12/news-is-bad-rolf-dobelli)

Saying that something has been more or less proven does not sound very convincing. But I agree that bad news could contribute to depression and anxiety. Obviously your hear sad news your going to feel a little empathetic. But I don’t necessarily agree that most people become paranoid and depressed from watching the evening news. Some, yes. Most, no. Probably comes down to the dosage and tolerance. And the persons predisposition to depression. Everyone is different.

[Sumac]

Saying that something has been more or less proven does not sound very convincing. But I agree that bad news could contribute to depression and anxiety. Obviously your hear sad news your going to feel a little empathetic. But I don’t necessarily agree that most people become paranoid and depressed from watching the evening news. Some, yes. Most, no. Probably comes down to the dosage and tolerance. And the persons predisposition to depression. Everyone is different.
Only evening news, yes, obviously you won't caught depression.

But some people more or less always in the informational stream via tablets and smartphones. Now that's what I mean.

[mrmaczaps]

The criminals don't follow the law argument conveniently neglects the fact that laws give a wronged party avenues for redress.

The speed limit's not going to keep most people from speeding, but guess who's going to be at fault should the speeder get into an accident and harm another person.

If you don't like no gun zones, I would highly suggest not going to them.

And I'll be honest, I don't think the people who pull these Mass school shootings are mentally ill, I think they're entitled.
The one that no one talked about where the guy came in and shot his ex-girlfriend, that's not mental illness that's entitlement.

Specifically to the bold point, the Post Office is a gun free zone. Its far worse for me to leave my gun in my car for 5 minutes when I go to mail an item than it is for it to stay holstered on my hip for those same five minutes.

Also, if the shooter is dead, where does one get redress for their dead or wounded children? If the front office staff or teachers are armed (those with training and who would normally carry) why shouldn't they be allowed to? Why does the Second only work outside. The Constitution doesn't say "*but not in schools, federal buildings and the post office" after "shall not be infringed"...

Mentally ill people already aren't allowed guns. Criminals are already not supposed to own or have in their possession guns. Dishonorable discharge from any branch of the military means no guns. The problem isn't guns, its more of teaching people how to deal with rejection, being told no and consequences of their actions. Kid screws off in class and there is no repercussion.... I survived HS with guns on the property... pretty sure they weren't supposed to be there even in the late 90s but no one had them inside the building... just the guys that hunted had a rifle or two in their trucks... lol.