2018: Are you glad that Nickelodeon bought the TMNT 9 years ago?

[Andrew NDB]

http://ak6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/4418066/thumb/8.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Nickelodeon_Slime_Cup_SG_2017.jpg/800px-Nickelodeon_Slime_Cup_SG_2017.jpg

It's been 9 years since Laird accepted Viacom/Nickelodeon's offer to buy all of the rights to TMNT for 60 million dollars and... that was that, as they say.

What say you, now?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Honestly?

I don't believe Laird was ever going to do anymore TMNT regardless. And Tales Volume 2 was too busy exploring weird one-off stories of little to no consequence.

So I wasn't going to get anymore Mirage TMNT regardless of whether or not Nick bought it.

So... trading two crummy kids cartoons (and counting) and two insultingly bad movies for some cool toys for my kids and one great (though Nick-regulated) comic series?

Yeah. I guess I am glad.

[newfan]

Should this thread wait until tomorrow? :lol: Or when the show starts...

I can see that for a lot of you the answer will be no but I am going to be an irritating newbie on the other hand and say yes because of 2012. I didn't like how they treated it with airing near the end and I don't know how much I care whether I like the new show or not..

Noticing the post above, also yes, brought so much joy to one my children.

[Andrew NDB]

I would even venture that the 2012 cartoon is the most entertaining TMNT cartoon ever made... but there's no way the pros outweigh the long-term cons on this. It's not even close.

[Vegita-San]

at this point, no.

I feel they dropped the ball.

IDW is the only good thing gotten out of the sale so far.

Nick 2K12 was VERY hit and miss in quality and enjoy ability, even if all the elements where there for an awesome series.

and i get the strong feeling this new series won't be for me either.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I would even venture that the 2012 cartoon is the most entertaining TMNT cartoon ever made... but there's no way the pros outweigh the long-term cons on this. It's not even close.

But what's the pro? More Mirage? Because that wasn't happening.

Is the pro not diluting/diminishing the brand? Well, that already happened, too.

I don't see what the pro of not selling was by this point. TMNT was already stuck with the mainstream kiddie "Scarlet A" hung around its neck. And Mirage was already dead.

So... did we miss out on a competent TMNT movie? Yeah. But is that Nick's fault or Bay/PD's fault?

[Andrew NDB]

Pros?

#1)A human heart -- one of the actual creators -- at the center of things, with full veto power over any and all sh**ty stuff. Quality control, let's call it, and the absence of being part of a megacorp.

#2) If not any immediate or burning creation of such, at least the possibility of quality, non-cartoon pandering TMNT movies.

#3) A likelihood that Laird would have continued chugging along on Volume 4 (I think even just him knowing there is the kind of TMNT stuff out there that there is gets to him) to its end, and probably kept Tales of the TMNT afloat, too. A possibility of a "OK, now it's your turn" of letting others loose on a Volume 5 later on.

Movies? There was always and would always be movie deals being brought to Peter and Gary Richardson's attention. And we more than likely would have gotten to see that Fusco "Batman Begins-like" script brought to life with full on grit. Instead we got TMNT 2014 and OotS, put on by focus groups and bean counters being bossed around by Michael Bay.

And a lot of people act like the 4Kids show would have been his one and only attempt at a new cartoon. Of course there'd be other deals for new cartoons on the table. Only difference? Laird would be around to smack them around and make them not have it be crap, or be a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf. He would shut that sh** right down.

[plastroncafe]

Yes.
While the sale blindsided me in a way I really wasn't expecting, I'm glad it happened.

First off Peter was miserable, now he's hopefully less miserable.
Secondly, handing control of the characters to someone else creates and opens a door for different interpretations. I'm still really interested in those interpretations, and yes...even the ones I don't think work so well.

Change is the only constant.

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.highlander-community.com/lairdnegan.jpg

[plastroncafe]

* Unless they're my own. - PL....probably.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

http://www.highlander-community.com/lairdnegan.jpg

I love it. :tlol:

But let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

[AquaParade]

It's really tough to answer. With hindsight, I'd say it wasn't "worth it" for me as a fan. I would have rather taken a limited chance on there being future TMNT material under Peter's ownership, than what we got.

I think Nickelodeon has done a pretty darn good job, at what they do, with TMNT. When I first heard they had purchased the license, I had a different idea of where they were going to take the franchise, but the 2012 show was surprisingly tasteful and respectful to the source material and they have somewhat tried to throw older fans a bone with the IDW comic. So good on them.

That said, at the end of the day, I would trade the last 9 years of TMNT media for just a small shot at that Fusco script being turned into a movie or whatever rare projects may have come down the pipeline from Mirage.
For all we know, it could have been a temporary dry spell that would just be ending today, as Peter announces his and Kevin's return to TMNT. Vol 5 #1-12 limited series.

But it could have been worse.

[PApagreg]

I'm neutral about it, I think while I don't like a lot of TMNT media post Nickelodeon purchase it has given TMNT more spotlight compared to the 2k3 version which is good.

[Candy Kappa]

The 2012 is my favorite animated TMNT so yeah I'm glad that Viacom bought the franchise

[neatoman]

Well... The Mirage Studios comics finally got a series of reprints that were easy to get a hold of when IDW got the comics license, and the IDW series itself is arguably one of the best things to come out of the franchise. So there is that.

As for anything else, that's a bit weirder. Like I don't hate the (I might as well add this word; first) Nickelodeon cartoon by any means, I just wouldn't care if I never got to watch it again, it's just not that impressive or memorable. They're about to launch another show less than a year after it ended, and it's probably going to have roughly the same quality and serve the same purpose, after that there's probably going to be yet another one the year after that ends. So who really cares when when they just have a planned reboot cycle and really only want to sell toys? The video games were pretty lame under Activision. Then there's the "Bayturtles", like what the hell?

No seriously, what the hell was up with the Platinum Dunes productions? The first one was a typical bad summer movie, made worse slapdash reshoots. The second one just pissed me off, like they intentionally made it awful the second time, even tried to top the awfulness. Why would you do that?

Anyway, I don't think it was necessarily a mistake to sell TMNT, it had already become a corporate cashcow by the point he sold it. All Laird really did before was to prevent the Fred Wolf cartoon from being more influential, which isn't really a bad thing, it at least made Fred Wolf nostalgia a less useful tool than what Viacom thought it would be. Had a movie like OotS been made around 2000-2007, when the target audience would been about 18-25, it might have been successful. Instead it was made when they were in their mid-30s, too late for most of them to still care, and anyone who grew up on anything but the Fred Wolf cartoon won't give a **** about Bebop and Rocksteady at all. So Viacom will probably learn that the franchise needs quality rather than rely on what they believe to be recognisable elements.

And of course it would only be a matter of time for a corporation to take full control anyway, might as well happen on somewhat respectful terms.

[IndigoErth]

Eh... 50/50. Being in that first Nick generation, I always liked them and I'm glad they wanted to pick up TMNT and keep it going. (Even if they largely saw dollar signs...) 2012 was a great, really well made show. At this point is that kind of show what I'm yearning to see? No, not really. But it itself was enjoyable.

However... I will reserve real judgement until we see what this next thing is. Already with what we know of it they're making me lean toward no now, which is a shame, and would take a 2003 caliber show out of them later to change that if it stays that way.

[Andrew NDB]

Well... The Mirage Studios comics finally got a series of reprints that were easy to get a hold of when IDW got the comics license, and the IDW series itself is arguably one of the best things to come out of the franchise. So there is that.

That would have happened anyway, and actually more cost-efficiently. Dark Horse and Mike Richardson was already angling around Peter at the time of the sale, looking to put out omnibuses of... everything, and split the profits with Mirage 50/50. Probably would have gone through if there was no sale to Viacom/Nick.

[TurtleTitan97]

We got the 2k12 cartoon and the IDW comics out of the deal. So yeah, I'm glad.

[dragonside]

i think they saved TMNT from becoming an obscure IP that may have been lost in time.

[sdp]

Nope.


Now Nick hasn't been horrible but far from amazing either. Viacom is too big to care about TMNT, they just care about investment so in general it's in worse hands no matter how "awful" it may have gotten with Mirage.

[Shark_Blade]

Nick TMNT is the best version hands down. So of course yeah.

[ProphetofGanja]

I don't know yet if I'm ultimately more happy or upset with the sale to Viacom. I think I wonder more about what could have happened if they had never made the Fred Wolf cartoon. What else could've been?

I like to think if somebody had presented me with the original comics and said "make a cartoon out of this" I could have made something better than what we got. Like, the tonal shift was so jarring, wtf?

[Powder]

I've liked everything other than the Platinum Dunes movies, so I'm a pretty happy camper overall.

I only wish it had happened a year or two later than it did, for a number of reasons.

1. The film they were going to make, with John Fusco, using techniques inspired by Where The Wild Things are, would've been sooo much better than what they replaced it with.

2. We didn't get the big Mirage source guide book that was in development as a result of the sale.

3. A Mirage writer had approached me a little after the buyout to work on something but Pete had already decided to wrap Tales up at that time. Dunno that it would've happened, but hey.

[dragonside]

the PD movies weren't the greatest.

But I am thankful that the Turtles got another shot at the big screen.

Seeing Bebop and Rocksteady just made it worth it.

And also the threezero stuff from the movies were pretty cool.

[Andrew NDB]

But I am thankful that the Turtles got another shot at the big screen.

That was already going to happen before the sale.

[MrPliggins]

I appreciate that it opened TMNT up to a whole new generation of fans and helped cement its place in pop culture. I've had a hard time being interested in the post-sale stuff, but, I suppose I'm glad it happened.

[Andrew NDB]

I appreciate that it opened TMNT up to a whole new generation of fans

But... again, that already would have happened, eventually.

[Vegita-San]

http://www.highlander-community.com/lairdnegan.jpg

where is the eastman rainbow version? :)

[neatoman]

That would have happened anyway, and actually more cost-efficiently. Dark Horse and Mike Richardson was already angling around Peter at the time of the sale, looking to put out omnibuses of... everything, and split the profits with Mirage 50/50. Probably would have gone through if there was no sale to Viacom/Nick.

Huh, that actually sounds like it would have been pretty cool.

[sdp]

Should definitely be bumped with the new reveal. :lol:

[pferreira]

There was no option for indifference so I picked the second option. It's neither been good or bad. Can't say I've really liked the stuff Nick has done with TMNT through films or animation but they gave the franchise a shot in the arm and some financial safety.

All Laird really did before was to prevent the Fred Wolf cartoon from being more influential, which isn't really a bad thing, it at least made Fred Wolf nostalgia a less useful tool than what Viacom thought it would be. Had a movie like OotS been made around 2000-2007, when the target audience would been about 18-25, it might have been successful. Instead it was made when they were in their mid-30s, too late for most of them to still care, and anyone who grew up on anything but the Fred Wolf cartoon won't give a **** about Bebop and Rocksteady at all. So Viacom will probably learn that the franchise needs quality rather than rely on what they believe to be recognisable elements.I still don't think you really understand why FW fans didn't go and see the movie. It had absolutely nothing to do with age or interest in the 80s cartoon series. :roll:

[wpugh2424]

I struggled accepting initially but the more I paid attention to it the more I liked it. It was hard for me to move on from the fw and 2k3, but the 2012 series really did a good job at pleasing the new generation and the old as well.

[Longview01]

No

Don't really like the 2012 series much and the new one looks awful

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Had a movie like OotS been made around 2000-2007, when the target audience would been about 18-25, it might have been successful]

Also remember the Internet access was limited to many people, many Internet users didn't even have broadband. You couldn't just search for an episode, and watch. Downloading episodes took time and there was no Youtube. The 4 Kids series didn't start until February 2003 (DVD releases started in early-September that year), and DVD releases of the original series didn't begin until April 2004.

TMNT was just a memory to many of them. If you had saved some videotapes, you were happy. Otherwise, you had to wait for a TV station to air any of the original three films, if you had that channel...

So it would probably have been more successful around 2002 than 2007.

[Wes]

I'm glad. New shows, new movies, new comics, new merch: NEW TOYS. Not all of those things are stellar (the 2014 and 2016 films are rather lame, IMO), but enough of them are (I really dig many/most of the toys; even the figures from the 2016 film are pretty neat), and we might not have gotten those things without Nickelodeon's weight behind the TMNT. So... yeah.

Bring on the Rise of the TMNT figures. :D

[Leonardo_thebest]

Nick has now created the best and worst of TMNT. It's 50/50.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Nickelodeon didn't produce the films, Platinum Dunes did. Nickelodeon just approved them (which is why we saw the Nickelodeon logotype).

[eskater]

i think they saved TMNT from becoming an obscure IP that may have been lost in time.

THIS. This is biggest reason I'm ok with it, I mean how many IPs out there are being dug up right now by big companies only to be regulated to obscurity again. Even if it's mostly drudging through what most people perceive as mostly crap.....being a forgotten IP is probably worse IMO. More fans = more people discovering or rediscovering the old great original material and more appetite for better content.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

What does IP mean?

[Powder]

Intellectual property. It's just a complicated way of saying "series".

[Wesley]

I’m indifferent to the whole thing, to be honest, but I guess I’m glad that there was some tmnt made for a new generation.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I wish they could just let older series rest in peace, or at least not mess up everything even more.

[sdp]

Intellectual property. It's just a complicated way of saying "series".

I miss the days when people just liked stuff without having to talk about it like they're a part of the industry just because they have the internet and have heard people who actually are part of the industry talk about it so much they started parroting how they hear them talk.

Everyone is a Chairman CEO on the internet and the few "trendsetters" are looked up to as if they knew a damn thing about the industries they talk about which some do have an idea but it's also a more complicated than that.

zhumannracoon

[Wildcat]

I picked the second one. At first thought it was kinda pointless. I still don’t think it was necessary. TMNT would not have struggled to exist after 4kids. It was well established and mainstream again.

Still I think it’s good Nick owns it if they absolutely wanted to sell it. They’re a strong company that will keep it relevant.

2012 was not my favorite but I enjoyed it. The PD movies were not very good but oh well. Like mentioned that wasn’t Nicks fault. I’m excited for Rise.

Some will say they’re just “Big Corporation” who doesn’t really care but that’s unfair. Everything has its own team behind it.

I think there is a chance Nick would allow a more grownup set of movies. Not R material but something along the lines older fans would like.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Some will say they’re just “Big Corporation” who doesn’t really care but that’s unfair.

People always say that.

[KillCrites]

I've adored ALMOST everything that's come out of the franchise since Nick bought TMNT, the exceptions being the 2 PD movies

So yeah, I'm very glad Nick bought TMNT

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I recall first being afraid Nickelodeon would just buy TMNT, complete DVD-releases of the MWS and 4 Kids series and not create anything new.

[ABrown]

After today's post on their TMNT social media sites: "When this came on your TV, you knew the best cartoon EVER was about to begin #TMNT 📺🐢 #TBT" (https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/962732982749581312), it's still clear that eight years later, their obsession with the original cartoon is strong as ever.

[Powder]

They're just catering to the largest demographic. How could you blame them when that's where the money's at? Their page has gotten SO much hate lately for the Rise posts, this is probably a move to keep casuals from "unliking" it.

[CyberCubed]

After today's post on their TMNT social media sites: "When this came on your TV, you knew the best cartoon EVER was about to begin #TMNT 📺🐢 #TBT" (https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/962732982749581312), it's still clear that eight years later, their obsession with the original cartoon is strong as ever.

I've said before, the guy who runs that twitter is probably a 20 something year old intern, not a big-wig at Nick. He reblogs lots of 2k3 stuff, meme images, and talks to all the young teenagers at there.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

After today's post on their TMNT social media sites: "When this came on your TV, you knew the best cartoon EVER was about to begin #TMNT 📺🐢 #TBT" (https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/962732982749581312), it's still clear that eight years later, their obsession with the original cartoon is strong as ever.

Of course, the 4 Kids series didn't air when of when the original series began.

[marcelangelo]

That would have happened anyway, and actually more cost-efficiently. Dark Horse and Mike Richardson was already angling around Peter at the time of the sale, looking to put out omnibuses of... everything, and split the profits with Mirage 50/50. Probably would have gone through if there was no sale to Viacom/Nick.

Wow, where did you get that from? Got a source? This could have been really good. I imagine longer and more careful bonus content..although the ultimate Collections annotations were at times amusing, interesting and memorable in my oppinion...

[AquaParade]

Wow, where did you get that from? Got a source? This could have been really good. I imagine longer and more careful bonus content..although the ultimate Collections annotations were at times amusing, interesting and memorable in my oppinion...

The Ultimate Editions are pretty darn good, but Dark Horse does some really nice Hellboy Library Editions. I wonder if TMNT would have gotten that treatment. If so, that'd be great, but I've had other Dark Horse volumes that fall apart pretty easily, so it depends on which route they would have taken.

[CyberCubed]

I do sometimes wonder what the comics would be like if Dark Horse got the license and not IDW. I get the feeling a new Dark Horse series would have been based on Mirage TMNT, whereas IDW decided to go full multi-universe with their series and it started off very 80's TMNT inspired and then later on added more Mirage/4kids/Archie stuff.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I do sometimes wonder what the comics would be like if Dark Horse got the license and not IDW. I get the feeling a new Dark Horse series would have been based on Mirage TMNT, whereas IDW decided to go full multi-universe with their series and it started off very 80's TMNT inspired and then later on added more Mirage/4kids/Archie stuff.

The TMNT's origin was far awat from the MWS and Archie series. But IDW does a good job combining the best elements from earlier series, something we could only dream of before October 2009 (because of legal issues and tensions between Mirage Studios and MWS).

[Andrew NDB]

But IDW does a good job combining the best elements from earlier series, something we could only dream of before October 2009

I don't think "dream" is the word I'd use. Probably one closer to "nightmare."

(because of legal issues and tensions between Mirage Studios and MWS).

If there was, that had nothing to do with why Laird didn't want anything to do with MWS stuff.

[PApagreg]

I don't think "dream" is the word I'd use. Probably one closer to "nightmare."



If there was, that had nothing to do with why Laird didn't want anything to do with MWS stuff.

Honest question do you like any TMNT incarnation besides the Mirage one.

[Andrew NDB]

Honest question do you like any TMNT incarnation besides the Mirage one.

I have some nostalgic love for much of the Archie series. I like about... 70% of the first movie. 25% of the fourth one. I liked the first 6 issues of IDW. I like the first NES game. Turtles Forever was a lot of fun.

[Vegita-San]

Honest question do you like any TMNT incarnation besides the Mirage one.

Mirage fans seem to mostly be bitter about everything else that follows and nothing will make them happy at this point.

I can understand why, but it seems fans of tmnt after mirage are more willing to except MOST changes more than mirage fans.

although there is limits to even us nu fans as to what we'll accept. and we can generally all agree to hate on PD and NT TNM :).

[pferreira]

Intellectual property. It's just a complicated way of saying "series".Series? IP refers to just that, a created property. Apologies for being pedantic. :)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

although there is limits to even us nu fans as to what we'll accept. and we can generally all agree to hate on PD and NT TNM :).

No sure about Platinum Dunes.

[CyberCubed]

It's kind of funny, in less than a decades time since Nick bought the franchise, we're already had 4 new universes/reboots:

- IDW TMNT

- Nick TMNT

- Platinum Dunes TMNT

- Rise of the TMNT


We've already gotten 4 new TMNT universes and reboots in just 9 years. It's pretty surprising when you think about it, so they've basically allowed 4 different visions of TMNT to exist under their brand.

[PApagreg]

It's kind of funny, in less than a decades time since Nick bought the franchise, we're already had 4 new universes/reboots:

- IDW TMNT

- Nick TMNT

- Platinum Dunes TMNT

- Rise of the TMNT


We've already gotten 4 new TMNT universes and reboots in just 9 years. It's pretty surprising when you think about it, so they've basically allowed 4 different visions of TMNT to exist under their brand.
I mean not really, during the 1st decade of the TMNT franchise we already had 4 incarnations of the turtles not counting videogames.

[neatoman]

It's kind of funny, in less than a decades time since Nick bought the franchise, we're already had 4 new universes/reboots:

- IDW TMNT

- Nick TMNT

- Platinum Dunes TMNT

- Rise of the TMNT


We've already gotten 4 new TMNT universes and reboots in just 9 years. It's pretty surprising when you think about it, so they've basically allowed 4 different visions of TMNT to exist under their brand.


That's a comic.
That's a children's cartoon.
That's a live-action movie series.
That's another children's cartoon.


They tackle different markets and mostly ran parallel, so it's not that shocking. If you're wondering why none of them were continuations of their respective predecessors, allow me to answer with a second list:


A rebbot was expected.
A reboot was expected.
A reboot was expected.
And yes, even less than a year later, a reboot was expected.


This really isn't noteworthy.

[Xav]

I have some nostalgic love for much of the Archie series. I like about... 70% of the first movie. 25% of the fourth one. I liked the first 6 issues of IDW. I like the first NES game. Turtles Forever was a lot of fun.I thought you liked the 2012 series?

[Andrew NDB]

I thought you liked the 2012 series?

Yeah, a lot of it is pretty funny.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

[LIST=1]This really isn't noteworthy.

It's part of TMNT, everything starts, gets cancelled and then rebooted (except Mirage comics). Compare to some other comics, like superman, who ran for decades before being rebooted.

[neatoman]

It's part of TMNT, everything starts, gets cancelled and then rebooted (except Mirage comics). Compare to some other comics, like superman, who ran for decades before being rebooted.

Like I said, not noteworthy.

[Shiro Kame]

NO.

TMNT 2012 waned in quality after season 1. TMNT 2003 waned in quality in season 3, picked up steam in Season 4, and then waned in quality during the fifth/lost season.

This new show messes up the formula of TMNT overall and has crappy designs for the characters. If they didn't do okay the first time, what makes you think they'll do good this time.

Plus this is VIACOM, the same company who false-flags videos just for reviewing their crap, put Fairly Odd Parents and Spongebob through years-long seasonal rot, canned Invader Zim before it finished, and wrote that inferior sequel to Avatar, The Legend of Korra.

[CyberCubed]

Season 3 was one of the best seasons in 2k3, you thought it waned there? Season 5 had the magical aspect that wasn't for everyone but it wrapped up all the plotlines of the show well. And the last two seasons were weaker but FF had a lot of good eps/concepts and villains.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Season 3 was one of the best seasons in 2k3, you thought it waned there? Season 5 had the magical aspect that wasn't for everyone but it wrapped up all the plotlines of the show well. And the last two seasons were weaker but FF had a lot of good eps/concepts and villains.

In general, fans agree seasons 1-4 of the 4 Kids series are OK. After that, opinions differ.

[Metropoliskid41]

I am glad the sale occurred, I think it opened up a lot of possibilities for the IP, ensuring a future fan base and loads of new merchandise. And there are a lot of great positives out of it.

-We still have one of the co-creators involved in the Franchise. Volume 4 & Tales Vol 2 were under Peter's control/eye, nice to have Eastman get another opportunity to influence and offer input on a New Direction of TMNT stories and Universe. Laird can still play in the Vol 4 Sandbox if he so desires. So we still can have a best of both worlds should Laird wish to continue his vision.

-IDW has given us loads of reprinted material of the original Mirage comics, getting deluxe format collections into fans hands New & Old. For those saying "yes that was going to happen with Dark Horse," couple of things:

1) With that 50/50 Deal, Dark Horse would have to move a lot of product for that venture to be financially viable for them. I fear that halfway through reprinting the series they'd quit because sales started to decline. This is a very common issue with Publishers that undertake "deluxe" reprint initiatives, the series gets discontinued halfway through, or ends up having to change hands to be completed. The risk of that increases when they'd be making less margin. Nick/IDW this is less of an issue, as Nick has their $60 million cost to re-coop and profit on, and IDW is already paying a licensing fee that they need to re-coop, it is in their interest to "flood the market" if you will with low cost product to re-coop those costs. That's typically why we get multiple versions/price points of each product. I suspect when the Archie TPB series finishes up, they'll wait a few years and then release a more deluxe, higher quality set of collections that includes all of the tie-ins.

2) Look at some of the Dark Horse hardcover collections and compare them to their IDW counterparts, typically IDW's offering is better. Dark Horse's total botching of the Conan the Barbarian Newspaper Strip collection comes to mind. Terrible scans, errors and missing strips, all wrapped up in an expensive "deluxe" package that retailers were stuck with.

-Being owned by Nick makes the path to new cartoons a lot shorter. You no longer have multiple outside firms that you're trying to iron out deals with, you essentially have a one-step fast track process to get a new Animated series green lit and into production, with a Network to stick it on where you get to control premium time slots and visibility.

-Nick also has a significant financial vested interest in ensuring the property continues to exist. If the franchise had stayed with an aging Peter Laird, and he lost complete interest, or God forbid, something happened to him, TMNT could cease to exist or be tangled up in a legal purgatory for years with nothing new for fans, effectively killing it off.

-Laird did not like the Image series. We would not have gotten it reprinted or finished if it stayed with him. Nick agreeing to release it speaks volumes. I think they have come to the realization that there always has been, and always will be, a place in the market for a more mature take on the Turtles. It seems now that they are willing to offer product and media on both ends of the spectrum, for a wide variety of audiences, and make their product visually and tonally different to accommodate those audiences.

-The 2 New Movies are garbage. I think the decision to let Bay take the rains was purely done by looking at the financial success of the Transformers Franchise under his direction. Blame that one on audiences flocking to theaters to watch garbage Transformers films and convincing Hollywood that we'll take whatever crap they hock our way. Hopefully they've learned their lesson and will change their approach next time. Without Nick's backing/ownership, a good TMNT movie could have been made with Laird/Richarson overseeing it, and it despite being great may not have performed (Dredd comes to mind as an example), and that could have killed any future hopes of a film franchise or subsequent movies. I think people underestimate the marketing aspect of films, and a movie that doesn't hvae a big corporate push behind it just isn't going to be able to compete with the visibility of say a Marvel or Star Wars movie. Nick's backing ensures a larger budget and more butts in seats (even on a poor product), and should it "fail," their backing also ensures that more product and reboots coming, even if something doesn't meet critical or financial expectations.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

It's definitely better than DC or Marvel owning the IP. Though I say this as someone who's rather iffy on how both companies are handling their properties in comics and certain media as well as not wanting the turtles to be heavily associated with either brand aside from a few crossovers like the Batman one.

Aside from the PD films and Viacom's emphasis on FW merchandise, everything else is just fine. Having the Image comics get a small revival made me excited and shocked, so I'll definitely be picking that up. I guess my best answer is that I'm content with it.

Although I do wonder what it'd be like if Laird had sold it to another comic book company like Dark Horse or Image (the latter of which seems pretty adamant about).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Viacom's emphasis on FW merchandise

This may be toned down now, when the Nickelodeon series is over.

[Papenbrook]

This may be toned down now, when the Nickelodeon series is over.

:lol: LOL, nope! :roll:

[Tortuglio]

I totally agree with Metropoliskid41, great answer.

Laird can still play in the Vol 4 Sandbox if he so desires. So we still can have a best of both worlds should Laird wish to continue his vision.

I was amazed that no one else brought this up. Laird can still make TMNT related comics, how's that been working out all these years? I think we have to realise that for the time being, he is not interested in dealing with the franchise, so it was an intelligent move selling it, as to not fade away. As Metropoliskid41 said:

-Nick also has a significant financial vested interest in ensuring the property continues to exist. If the franchise had stayed with an aging Peter Laird, and he lost complete interest, or God forbid, something happened to him, TMNT could cease to exist or be tangled up in a legal purgatory for years with nothing new for fans, effectively killing it off.


Hopefully they've learned their lesson and will change their approach next time.

Apparently, they haven't. If i'm not mistaken, Bay is still producing a possible third movie, not related to the other two.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

"Glad" isn't really the right word, you really should have had an "I'm okay with it" option.

I picked "Glad" in the poll because, I am very glad that we got all these Mirage reprints (not to mention Archie reprints, regardless of quality). The original version is now so much easier to collect then it's ever been, and I think that's something to be happy about. (Mirage/Dark Horse versions would have been fine too, but who knows if that would have panned out?)

And, I've enjoyed the Nick TMNT show and what I've read so far of IDW TMNT, so I think we've gotten some decent TMNT media out of it. (Though I like 4Kids better than Nick, and Mirage and Archie more than IDW).

"Rise" isn't exactly my idea of "good TMMT" but it's an amusing enough cartoon and seems pretty harmless. It has it's funny moments.

"BayTurtles" is kinda "meh" but it came and went without doing any real "damage".

Now, I do hate the fact that what were once characters independently owned and overseen by one of their original creators are now owned by a big faceless company. TMNT being a creator owned IP was always part of it's appeal and inspiring to me as an indie cartoonist. Plus, Peter Laird had pretty good taste it what should and shouldn't happen in TMNT adaptations (Utrom Shredder aside).

But, don't forget it was his decision to sell it, and he did so because he got burned out on running TMNT. If he didn't sell it, he probably would have just sat on the property forever, and we likely would not have any new TMNT content or even reissues of old content (unless the Dark Horse deal went through).

Also, hanging on to the rights to publish a certain amount of Mirage TMNT comics a year was a clever way to "have his cake and eat it too". This way he can still do a Volume 4 issue once in awhile, when he feels like it. And, if he ever wanted to "unretire" he could always do Vol. 4 regularly or reopen Tales Vol. 2 if he so desired. I think the reason IDW doesn't make many new Mirage continuity books is to avoid stepping on Peter's toes. In a way, he still "owns" the part of TMNT that matters the most to him.

So, yeah. I'd call it a "mixed blessing". There's good and bad parts of it, but over all, I'm okay with it.

[ZariusTwo]

I'd say it's been a worthwhile purchase. TMNT 2012 isn't to my taste at all but it was very successful. Rise gets slightly better whenever it focuses on the myth arc and not the overly comedic filler, and the IDW comics are pretty solid.

It's faired better this decade than a lot of other franchises. Especially Power Rangers.

[Leo656]

We've definitely seen the franchise's brightest days, but the worst is assuredly still to come.

That's what worries me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

We've definitely seen the franchise's brightest days, but the worst is assuredly still to come.

That's what worries me.

Worse than Rise and Platinum Dunes movies?

Seriously? How could it get worse? How are we not already in the Worst Case Scenario? :tlol:

[Prowler]

Worse than Rise and Platinum Dunes movies?

Seriously? How could it get worse? How are we not already in the Worst Case Scenario? :tlol:
If worse TMNT related stuff than the Platinum Dunes is yet to come then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

We didn't know how good we had it back when the worst TMNT related stuff was the 3rd Turtles movie and The Next Mutation.

[Leo656]

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.

[TigerClaw]

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.
At least you have the IDW comics. They treat TMNT with a great amount of respect. and have something that older fans will enjoy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Because a lot of people really like those movies. AND, the people making them have repeatedly expressed that they were thrilled with the product they released and simply can't fathom why they weren't more well-received. "We did everything right!" They've more or less said that, not word-for-word but almost. If anything, future films will have much, much MORE pizza and "Cowabunga", because that's what these idiots think is the missing ingredient.

I try not to talk about "Rise" too much because a lot of people like it and simply can't let people have a different opinion. Like, they get REALLY mad about it. So I've tried to be better in selecting my battles, because aside from the first episode I've been completely avoiding the show anyway, as it is truly, TRULY not for me, so although I don't believe a person needs a "reason" to share an opinion, I'm well aware that there's no real need for me to restate what's already been stated, since it's just going to lead to arguing and whatever anyway. But I agree, as far as TMNT cartoons go, it would be hard to even imagine sinking any lower. That said, it's only a matter of time.

"Our primary target audience is 6-10 year olds." When a company says that, the sh*t has thoroughly hit the fan and there's no going back. You've told everyone that your main concern is in pleasing "people" with the absolute lowest standards and worst possible taste imaginable. When that's your bar, you're not gonna waste any time aiming higher than the f*cking ground.

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do. And that's assuming they actually care about making "quality" product, instead of just product, which they openly don't care about at all. Things may well once again get better than they are right now, but trust me: There are still a LOT of ways for them to screw TMNT up. They're not even done counting them yet.

Yeah, but how does it get worse than soulless Fred Wolf cowabunga cash-in movies where the humans are the main characters, and TeenTitansGo cartoons for autistic six-year-olds with a Tazmanian Devil April? What worse can happen?

[Leo656]

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.


Yeah, but how does it get worse than soulless Fred Wolf cowabunga cash-in movies where the humans are the main characters, and TeenTitansGo cartoons for autistic six-year-olds with a Tazmanian Devil April? What worse can happen?

Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.

[Prowler]

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.




Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.
It's like the property is becoming a glorified fanfiction section, eh?

[Leo656]

There does seem to be a smidge of, "I never liked this about TMNT, I'm gonna 'fix' it" in each new version recently. That's a little bit Geoff Johns-esque, all by itself.

[Sabacooza]

There does seem to be a smidge of, "I never liked this about TMNT, I'm gonna 'fix' it" in each new version recently. That's a little bit Geoff Johns-esque, all by itself.
As with most properties these days there seems to be a need to destroy our culture and replace it with a more dumbed down perversion. My hopes are that they'll tap into what made it great when all else has been exhausted.

On a side note, I shudder to think what the new series of movies will be like.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all.

I'm kinda with you on that. IDW gets overhyped to all hell around here. But, in my experience it's alright, but not mind-blowing like they say. Still I like it better than having no new Turtle comics at all (even though 9 times out of ten I'll opt for the Mirage reprint right next to it instead).

I guess I just live in my little "nerd-bubble" where people do read comics (I'm not as into movies or TV anymore), so I don't care as much what the movies or shows are like anymore.

Though, if the future of non-comic TMNT media is more and more crap, I guess we can always take the "enjoy the train-wreck" approach. I like Star Trek too, but Star Trek 5 is still my favorite because of how deliciously bad it is.

[Andrew NDB]

On a side note, I shudder to think what the new series of movies will be like.

Fear the worst.

[The Great Saiyaman]

The only thing I did NOT like about Nickelodeon buying TMNT is that they let Micheal Bay get too close for comfort to it.

[Metalwolf]

People go on about the IDW comics, but the few I've read really didn't blow my mind.

They were fine, but... I'unno. Lots of little things I didn't care for, that when added up... eh. They're "fine", but that's all. Plus I'm certainly not going to jump back in NOW, like 100 issues and 80 spin-offs and mini-series later.

Also, nobody reads comic books, and I'd like to see the "mainstream" TMNT be treated with some semblance of care, instead of an eternal joke. People act like the fact that the comics are a shade more "grown up" than the rest of the swill the brand produces is something to celebrate. Really, it's "Here's your bone, now go quietly chew on it in the corner while the rest of us revel in how absurd and ridiculous this nonsense really is."

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's SOMEthing out there based on TMNT that's not 100% aimed at booger-eaters, but it's really more of a backhanded appeasement type of thing than a true gesture of goodwill and caring about that section of the audience. Just a thing they can point to and say, "look, we gave you SOMEthing."

Good start. Not enough. And also, a *tad* overrated in my admittedly-limited opinion.




Thaaaaaat's right, you're still kinda new-ish to comic books and such and haven't suffered through 8 million reboots of things you used to care about.

Look, they've already started "tweaking" the origin with each subsequent reboot. They've already started having conversations about what the "necessary" parts of TMNT lore are, and what's expendable. They've decided "pizza" and "bad jokes" must stay, and also, they probably have to be Turtles, but everything else is on the table for "negotiation". Thus, that means everything is expendable and unnecessary, if it gets in the way of whatever will sell the most toys at a given moment in time.

We have Black "Tasmanian Devil" April, "just because". Next, they'll have been humans-into-turtles, rather than humanoid turtles, "just because". One day, Splinter and Shredder will be the same character, and Casey Jones will have raised and trained the Turtles, "just because."

When you've established that "Nothing Matters", then indeed, nothing matters. Which means that every single bad idea anyone's EVER had for TMNT, in the history of ever, can now get a budget, a release date, and a toy. Because unlike 20 years ago, there's nobody there to say, "Well, that's not a good fit for TMNT because _____."

Mark my words: It can, and will, get worse. And people will cheer, because "At least they're still making toys, so I can buy them for MY kid now and subliminally indoctrinate them into liking 'my' things, because that's not creepy or manipulative at all." Don't get me wrong, I HATE the BayTurtles flicks, but only partly for what they are. It's partly because, the door is open now for them to do even worse next time, because too many people don't know WHY those movies were bad, and don't care. That says it all.
Caaaareful Leo656, criticize the franchise too much with excellent points or rail against the holy kid demographic and the eternal need for sustaining toys and your responses might get *chirping crickets.* ;)

That's the response I often get now, I could post spam or pictures of Cubed jamming his fingers repeatedly into a Bay Turtle's quivering nostrils and I would probably get nothing. Unless people have me on ignore or something (does the site even tell you if they do?) then it's like I get barely a response. Even Shredderorokusaki gets more attention then I do.:P

For your 'Nothing Matters' bit, well there are one or two people on here that had directly stated outright that the adult fandom doesn't matter, only the kids do. It's their opinion of course, but good God.

I am starting to personally wish that Dark Horse was given a chance to run a TMNT series. Hell, I wish Marvel had been able to buy it, considering the director it has now. Maybe we wouldn't have a TV series almost every year, but we'd have some high budget movies. However as long as Nick has it in their grip, expect schlock and nothing for adults, because toys.

[Leo656]

Yeah. Yeah. :ohwell: Whatyagonnado, though?

Can't nothin' be done until they start actually losing money by the barrel, and this fanbase will buy anything, so... I'unno.

One day, in the far future, the TMNT film series will be used in film schools as an example of how it looks to get something right exactly ONCE, and then spend the rest of eternity not even bothering to try. Real shame. That and the old games are about all I bother with, anymore. It is what it is.

[Filespit]

I honestly haven't thought too much about Nick buying the franchise. It happened and I was pretty cool with it when the news struck. Looking back over these 9 (almost 10 now) years, and certaintly after having read through this topic, I'd say they've done a decent job.

Since buying TMNT, they've given us 4 new adaptations (not all by themselves), which is impressive in itself since it keeps the Turtles somewhat relevant, but all with varying quality.

The 2012 series was cool. It wasn't amazing but certainly not terrible either. I stopped watching somewhere around season 4, but watched every episode up until then. I should catch up on it and see it through. I thought it was very respectful of the older material, both the Mirage comics and the original cartoon, and they mixed it up with new things. There were some weird decisions along the way, I though it got a bit out of place sometimes and the design and animations of some characters felt a bit off, but overall I liked the show.

The PD movies are crap, I've never said anything good about them and never will. The first thing I did after having seen the first movie at the theater was to put on the original movie as soon as I got home. Those movies are filled with bad decision-making and lacks any sort of love or respect for the franchise.

The IDW comics are great, I'm loving them. I've never been a frequent comic book reader, so I can't possibly compare it to the Mirage comics for example, but I feel this is probably the best adaptation of the Turtles so far. They're mixing all the good things from the other adaptations with new and cool stuff, making it feel fresh and exciting. I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but no one should look past it. It's good.

Then we have Rise, which I've seen 1 episode of and couldn't care less about. Like the PD movies there's a lot of bad decision-making here that I don't agree with. I'm sure it's gonna find its fanbase like everything else, but I'm not gonna bit a part of it.

Apart from this we've got a couple of new video games, a LOT of new super cool collectibles, merchandise and re-releases of old comic books and tv shows. That's pretty ok with me, even if perhaps Nick shouldn't be credited for all or any of that.

So I'd say they've done a pretty decent job. There's been some weird, and certainly bad, decisions along the way, but it hasn't been all that terrible. It could've been far worse, but also a lot better.

[Anarchistguy]

Not at all...

Thanks to that I since then moved onto other things

[AquaParade]

At this point in time, I'm sort of indifferent to the fact.

I appreciate Nick's efforts on TMNT 2012 and the IDW series. Those were both made with love and respect, despite having to be a bit sanitized for a wide-audience. I really enjoyed TMNT 2012, when it was fresh and felt like it had a strong direction. The IDW books are great, if only for the constant stream of comicbook covers they produce. I always love seeing new pieces by Kevin Eastman and upcoming artists.

Enough has been said about Platinum Dunes. Utter failures, and more than that, they are wasted potential. The timing was right, the technology was there, and they blew it.

But like I said, I've more or less made peace with the fact that I may never see anything new that I truly love from the TMNT. Aside from Nostalgia grabs, like the NECA figures, which I'm glad to have. Keep the past coming.

My expectations are comfortably low, and I'll be there, pleasantly surprised if Nickelodeon does do anything new and spectacular with the TMNT.
If not, I'll always have love for the boys for the captivating stories and great times they've given me.

[Leo656]

But like I said, I've more or less made peace with the fact that I may never see anything new that I truly love from the TMNT.

Yep.

I mean, knowing me, who was kind of always annoyed by things "Made For Kids" even when I WAS a kid, I can't see anything ever getting me excited for the franchise again. I'd have to alter my tastes completely to be able to swallow and enjoy the things they're producing, and are likely to produce in the future, and I'm not about that.

Some people love coconut. I hate it, you can't make me like it, and if it's "This or nothing", I'll just as well not eat, thanks.

Now, watch them one day pull a "Halloween" and one day do a direct sequel to the 1990 film, using guys in suits instead of that horrible CGI vomit. :lol: Never happen, but boy, would I feel stupid. :lol: And grateful, obviously. But yeah, that's about what it would take to get me back, and that's (probably) not happening.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I do wonder if Image, Dark Horse, or any comic book company that isn't DC or Marvel would have been a better option than Viacom.

[Leo656]

Tough call.

I know everyone wants TMNT to be a Marvel property because of the Daredevil connection and "mutants", but they already have a billion mutants so I feel like the TMNT in the Marvel universe would have absolutely nothing to do, or make them special.

I kind of feel like they'd fit in like 1% better in DC, because they've generally been better about creating a world that's more PG-13 and R rated and they don't shy away from violence, BUT, it would have to be under one of their sub-imprints that's not connected to the main DCU. Again, the main universe is too crowded for them, but I do feel that of the two "big" companies, DC would be more apt to lean away from the cartoon trappings of the brand. I have a feeling Marvel would rather lean into those things because "That's what everyone knows."

I feel like neither company could resist the temptation to fold the TMNT into the main universe at some point, even if that shouldn't happen. If they could avoid doing that, though, I think DC would be a little bit closer to Mirage-ish in tone, while Marvel would probably be pretty similar to what IDW is doing.

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. :lol: Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. :lol: Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

Back to Image Comics. They do Saga and Walking Dead, and hordes of other adult titles.

But that'd NEVER happen. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

"Image Comics" isn't really a publisher. They're just an umbrella for publishers.

[Leo656]

Yeah, pretty much.

Never been a big Image guy, personally. They kinda screwed things up bad for everybody way back in the day and I'm still kinda not over it. :lol:

[Xav]

Now, watch them one day pull a "Halloween" and one day do a direct sequel to the 1990 film, using guys in suits instead of that horrible CGI vomit. :lol: Never happen, but boy, would I feel stupid. :lol: And grateful, obviously. But yeah, that's about what it would take to get me back, and that's (probably) not happening.The sad thing is that's exactly what was panned before the sale.

[AquaParade]

Tough call.

I know everyone wants TMNT to be a Marvel property because of the Daredevil connection and "mutants", but they already have a billion mutants so I feel like the TMNT in the Marvel universe would have absolutely nothing to do, or make them special.

I kind of feel like they'd fit in like 1% better in DC, because they've generally been better about creating a world that's more PG-13 and R rated and they don't shy away from violence, BUT, it would have to be under one of their sub-imprints that's not connected to the main DCU. Again, the main universe is too crowded for them, but I do feel that of the two "big" companies, DC would be more apt to lean away from the cartoon trappings of the brand. I have a feeling Marvel would rather lean into those things because "That's what everyone knows."

I feel like neither company could resist the temptation to fold the TMNT into the main universe at some point, even if that shouldn't happen. If they could avoid doing that, though, I think DC would be a little bit closer to Mirage-ish in tone, while Marvel would probably be pretty similar to what IDW is doing.

Dark Horse probably would've been the best bet, all things considered, but eh, that's not what happened. :lol: Fun to think about sometimes, though, I guess.

Right. I'm always tempted to say I'd like to see the TMNT at Marvel, but it's actually quite a conundrum trying to adequately place them in such a complex, shared universe.

At this point, I feel there's nothing to lose, and I'd be excited to see what they come up with. It couldn't be the Mirage-like mythos we know. The Marvel Universe is just too intricate for and involved for that.

While I'm sure they could preserve the elements we love about TMNT, such as isolation, revenge, family, you couldn't avoid the trappings of the Marvel Universe. I think we could still start with the foundation laid by the first few arcs of Mirage Volume 1, but it'd obviously need to go it's own direction from there. Surely we'd see one of them become part of the X-Men, or the turtles have to battle it out with "The Morlocks" over territory in the sewers. You might even see a Triceraton join the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Now, all of this actually sounds quite exciting to me, but we'd have to be ready to embrace a new type of TMNT mythos. And honestly, that's not too hard a pill to swallow these days.

Leo, I see what you're saying about DC potentially being a better fit for the turtles we know and love. It's difficult for me to articulate, but while the DC Universe is massive, it still feels like there are pockets of isolation there, in which the TMNT can thrive.

Either way, I'd take either of these over Nickelodeon. Nickelodeon deserves some credit because this could have turned out so much worse. They have come at the franchise from a place of respect, for the most part, which I do appreciate.
But the TMNT joining Marvel or DC brings me back to the A.C. Farley penciled issue "Halls of Lost Legends", a story teasing the potential for the TMNT to one day reach mythic-status, and I feel that this would be an earned step in that direction for them.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm assuming Peter didn't think about selling Kevin the rights. Though Kevin probably wouldn't have been interested or likely didn't have the pockets for them.

"Image Comics" isn't really a publisher. They're just an umbrella for publishers.

Don't they own Spawn, though?

Yeah, pretty much.

Never been a big Image guy, personally. They kinda screwed things up bad for everybody way back in the day and I'm still kinda not over it. :lol:

The Volume 3 comics, you mean?

[pferreira]

Worse than Rise and Platinum Dunes movies?

Seriously? How could it get worse? How are we not already in the Worst Case Scenario? :tlol:A live action adaptation of Rise of the TMNT? :D

Don't get me wrong, these are Dark Times, but it's statistically impossible for TMNT to ever reach the heights of the 1988-1991 period, so really, there's nowhere to even GO but down, no matter what they do.It's easy to get into a mindset that TMNT is getting worse and worse because different iterations do things we don't like but we as fans need some perspective on this: These aren't Dark Times. Nick has a new TMNT show on at the moment which will last a couple of years at least, the IDW comic still has some years left in it as well as all the merchandise opportunities to continue fan interest. Do you want to know what the Dark Times have been? 1999-2002 when there was no TMNT around. Volume 4 was just starting up but that was it, nothing. We should count ourselves lucky as have something at the moment without any gap. Ghostbusters has been off worse in my opinion.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

The Volume 3 comics, you mean?
I think he means more like how they got the public looking at comic books again, but then squandered it with infighting, shameless money-grabbing gimmicks, and flooding the market with well...

https://i.postimg.cc/1RYv979N/BBB-14-Dorker-Image-Final.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

They have gotten much better since those days, though. They now publish creator owned comics in a wide variety of subjects and styles. But, it's hard not to think of them as the "X-TREME 90s" comic company.

[Leo656]

Tetsu: Yeah. that's exactly it. A bunch of pencillers got uppity, once upon a time, and decided that since society was becoming functionally illiterate, and "nobody reads comics for the stories anymore, they just look at the pretty pictures," that THEY were suddenly the most important part of the puzzle and decided to start their own company. And that company's books did a GREAT job in showing everyone what a bunch of books written by people who could "only" draw (and in some cases, not even that) would look like. They almost killed the business with their nonsense, and in some ways we're still digging out of the hole they dug. Shame on them.

F*ck McFarlane, F*ck Liefeld, and even f*ck Jim Lee, who I actually like a lot, for starting this "more seam lines/everything needs to look like armor" business. F*ck 'em. Right in the goddamn ear.
--------------------

pferreira: We're just not going to agree on this, because I'm not convinced this brand needs to keep going. Especially if it's just going to keep deteriorating and being pulled away from what it was created and supposed to be, in exchange for selling more toys to a new generation of nose-pickers. That sh*t isn't what's really important.

I have a lot of conversations with my friends about stuff like this. Some of my favorite things, for example, are Speed Racer and Dick Tracy. Those are "dead brands"; they exist, technically, but no new content is being generated on a massive scale (I'm aware the Tracy strip is still published in limited markets, and... well, the content kind of proves my point that some things need to die with grace) and nobody's screaming for a comeback. That is absolutely JUST FINE with me. The last few Speed Racer reboots were horrifying. The newer Tracy strips have them bringing back all the Space Age stuff everyone hated and they'd spent 30 years trying to get away from. It's awful when people try and force them into an era in which they don't belong, once they've stopped being relevant. They need to be left alone, so they can maintain their purity. What was once, is golden. What came after... holy hell. No f*cking bueno.

I never wanted that from TMNT, but here we are. I'll take 1999 any day over what's on my screen nowadays, thank you.

I know most TMNT fans are of the, "I just don't want it to go away! I need new toys! I mean, my KIDS need new toys!" attitude, but frankly, when everything objectively sucks, and you're tricking yourself that it doesn't because you just like the brand so much, it's time to give up the ghost.

Ghostbusters is a great example. Loved Ghostbusters. Probably too much. After seeing what "they" think is the right direction, I never want to see anything new again. It was two movies and a cartoon, THAT'S IT. I don't WANT new content, because the people making it are proven assholes. If it's only gonna get worse, what's the point? "Well, at least we can buy toys?" I. Don't. CARE.
------------------------

As for Eastman... I own "Bodycount". He can stay far away from "writing" TMNT for all eternity, as far as I'm concerned. :lol:

Time for an even more unpopular opinion: I think Eastman and Laird were only any good when they were in the same room together with a big bag of weed. Separately, I think they're each lousy writers from different angles, but still equally pretty bad. I haven't liked a single thing I've read from them, individually, about TMNT, but for entirely different reasons.

[Prowler]

I dunno how anyone can possibly think Eastman and Laird were not on something when they came up with the Ninja Turtles concept. :lol:

[Leo656]

I've heard them say things like they were "Up late watching bad TV", and that always sounded like code, to me.

Like, what college-aged roommates just sit around at 1am watching "bad TV" without being drunk or high or both? They were absolutely smoking weed until video evidence surfaces proving otherwise. :lol:

Sh*t, ain't mad at 'em for it. Just sayin'.

[Prowler]

I've heard them say things like they were "Up late watching bad TV", and that always sounded like code, to me.

Like, what college-aged roommates just sit around at 1am watching "bad TV" without being drunk or high or both? They were absolutely smoking weed until video evidence surfaces proving otherwise. :lol:

Sh*t, ain't mad at 'em for it. Just sayin'.

Eastman definitely looks like the type who did some stuff when he was younger :tgrin:. In fact I'd not be surprised if he occasionally smoked a joint still either. Peter probably doesn't do any of that stuff nowadays but maybe he got a bit adventurous when he was 18-22 years old :trazz:

[Leo656]

Laird's getting older, he almost definitely has a prescription for the normal aches and pains that come with that.

He's an old hippie from Massachusetts, of course he still partakes. He probably just doesn't want to advertise it because it's nobody's business and some TMNT fans, especially, are quite childish about that sort of thing, not fully understanding it.

At the very least, I'm sure he's a fan of CBD oil. :lol: But again, I'd wager he's a "prescription puffer." And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Prowler]

Laird's getting older, he almost definitely has a prescription for the normal aches and pains that come with that.

He's an old hippie from Massachusetts, of course he still partakes. He probably just doesn't want to advertise it because it's nobody's business and some TMNT fans, especially, are quite childish about that sort of thing, not fully understanding it.

At the very least, I'm sure he's a fan of CBD oil. :lol: But again, I'd wager he's a "prescription puffer." And there's nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps that would explain Laird making April a drawing. He was the one who came up with that, wasn't he? Like WTF. :lol:

[Leo656]

Oh, absolutely.

"But DUDE, like... don't you GET IT? Like, they're ALL 'just drawings', right? And like, it's the 'MAGIC' that brings them to life, y'know? Like, the 'magic' of imagination, and wish-fulfillment, and UNICORNS, man! Little kids, man, a child's wish... that's the MAGIC that brings these drawings to life! It's so meta!"

".......But why does April have to f*ck a cockroach?"

"........................What? What the hell are we even talking about?"

........Is exactly how that conversation went, I assure you. :lol:

[Metalwolf]

Yeah. Yeah. :ohwell: Whatyagonnado, though?

Can't nothin' be done until they start actually losing money by the barrel, and this fanbase will buy anything, so... I'unno.

One day, in the far future, the TMNT film series will be used in film schools as an example of how it looks to get something right exactly ONCE, and then spend the rest of eternity not even bothering to try. Real shame. That and the old games are about all I bother with, anymore. It is what it is.
True that. Shame Eastman or Laird couldn't buy back the TMNT to flip it to DC or Dark Horse. Neither of those guys shy away from hardcore stuff, and hell, we might get some new storylines.

I'd also say with the marketing emphasis on the little love grubs, isn't that how self centered brats are created? 'Oh you are the only thing that's important, everything must cater to you and your entertainment.'

And reading onwards, sometimes I see the 'Buh buh buh duh toys!' 'It's gotta be for my kids!' I agree with you on that too. I wanna roll my eyes when I see that, I don't mind some toys but there's got to be more then that. I swear, some WOULD rather the franchise remain mainly about cartoons and plastic toys from China (with a periodic bone thrown to the older fans in the form of a rare comic) then have it grow into something more befitting it's Mirage origins.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh, absolutely.

"But DUDE, like... don't you GET IT? Like, they're ALL 'just drawings', right? And like, it's the 'MAGIC' that brings them to life, y'know? Like, the 'magic' of imagination, and wish-fulfillment, and UNICORNS, man! Little kids, man, a child's wish... that's the MAGIC that brings these drawings to life! It's so meta!"

".......But why does April have to f*ck a cockroach?"

"........................What? What the hell are we even talking about?"

........Is exactly how that conversation went, I assure you. :lol:

Absolutely 100% true. No fvcking chance it went down any other way.

[Leo656]

Metalwolf: Yeah, I'm always a little creeped out by how people try to indoctrinate their kids into liking what they liked. My parents tried that sh*t with me at first, a little bit, but thankfully, after that they stayed out of it.

"I want to share the things I enjoyed with my kids" is code for, "I'm getting older, and I hate it, and I feel a need to try and 'connect' with younger people, to prove I'm not old and out of touch." It reeks of desperation and vanity. Let kids get into things on their own. Obviously, parents buy the toys, but nobody forced He-Man or Superman or Ghostbusters on me, I liked it, I wanted it, so they supported me in it. A lot of parents talk openly about "sharing" TMNT with their kids before they're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst, and that, to me, is questionable sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.

I don't have kids and never will, but my niece was young once. She found TMNT all on her own, on YouTube. Neither I nor her Mom had ever put it in front of her, she just came across it as a 10-year old and was like "Hey, what's this about? Do you guys remember this?" So for a while, she was a fan, and was thrilled to have the movies on DVD. Then she grew out of it and I have no idea if she bothers with it anymore. Probably not. Does it upset me? Eh, not really. It's one less thing to talk about, one less thing we have in common, but she's her own person.

Anyways. Some people's reasons for wanting this property to last forever are highly suspect. A lot of it seems to have to do with not wanting to let go of childhood.

[Wesley]

Not at all...

Thanks to that I since then moved onto other things

Agreed. I still like a lot of the old stuff (we were lucky to get the 2003 cartoon and 1990 film imo), but there is so much choice in tv shows, films, etc. nowadays that whether I like or dislike anything new tmnt related won’t bother me.

[Metalwolf]

Metalwolf: Yeah, I'm always a little creeped out by how people try to indoctrinate their kids into liking what they liked. My parents tried that sh*t with me at first, a little bit, but thankfully, after that they stayed out of it.

"I want to share the things I enjoyed with my kids" is code for, "I'm getting older, and I hate it, and I feel a need to try and 'connect' with younger people, to prove I'm not old and out of touch." It reeks of desperation and vanity. Let kids get into things on their own. Obviously, parents buy the toys, but nobody forced He-Man or Superman or Ghostbusters on me, I liked it, I wanted it, so they supported me in it. A lot of parents talk openly about "sharing" TMNT with their kids before they're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst, and that, to me, is questionable sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.

I don't have kids and never will, but my niece was young once. She found TMNT all on her own, on YouTube. Neither I nor her Mom had ever put it in front of her, she just came across it as a 10-year old and was like "Hey, what's this about? Do you guys remember this?" So for a while, she was a fan, and was thrilled to have the movies on DVD. Then she grew out of it and I have no idea if she bothers with it anymore. Probably not. Does it upset me? Eh, not really. It's one less thing to talk about, one less thing we have in common, but she's her own person.

Anyways. Some people's reasons for wanting this property to last forever are highly suspect. A lot of it seems to have to do with not wanting to let go of childhood.
Did you ever notice that there is also a lot of these types not wanting stuff to change too much or evolve further? That seems to go hand in hand with this.

But yeah, my own parents didn't really try to introduce me too much to their own interests, save for Beatles and trying to teach me a little bit of German. My main interests were (and mostly still are) Transformers, He-man, Legend of Zelda, TMNT and Voltron. Plus Thundercats, GI Joe and the Mario cartoon. :D

[Leo656]

You and I, it seems, have much to discuss.

[Metalwolf]

You and I, it seems, have much to discuss.
Indeed :nods:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Metalwolf: Yeah, I'm always a little creeped out by how people try to indoctrinate their kids into liking what they liked. My parents tried that sh*t with me at first, a little bit, but thankfully, after that they stayed out of it.

"I want to share the things I enjoyed with my kids" is code for, "I'm getting older, and I hate it, and I feel a need to try and 'connect' with younger people, to prove I'm not old and out of touch." It reeks of desperation and vanity. Let kids get into things on their own. Obviously, parents buy the toys, but nobody forced He-Man or Superman or Ghostbusters on me, I liked it, I wanted it, so they supported me in it. A lot of parents talk openly about "sharing" TMNT with their kids before they're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst, and that, to me, is questionable sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.

I don't have kids and never will, but my niece was young once. She found TMNT all on her own, on YouTube. Neither I nor her Mom had ever put it in front of her, she just came across it as a 10-year old and was like "Hey, what's this about? Do you guys remember this?" So for a while, she was a fan, and was thrilled to have the movies on DVD. Then she grew out of it and I have no idea if she bothers with it anymore. Probably not. Does it upset me? Eh, not really. It's one less thing to talk about, one less thing we have in common, but she's her own person.

Anyways. Some people's reasons for wanting this property to last forever are highly suspect. A lot of it seems to have to do with not wanting to let go of childhood.

I can't share enough how much of a pet peeve it is of mine when folks say that it's not made for you or at least my children love it. The latter is not an excuse and they're likely the same people who take their kids to see films like the MCU, DCEU, and Deadpool. Those same people who've experienced this brand who are now saying "well it's made for kids so it's suppose to be dumb" are in the same camp who hate TMNT 3, Next Mutation, etc. which further makes them hypocritical. I can't stand it.

[Metalwolf]

I can't share enough how much of a pet peeve it is of mine when folks say that it's not made for you or at least my children love it. The latter is not an excuse and they're likely the same people who take their kids to see films like the MCU, DCEU, and Deadpool. Those same people who've experienced this brand who are now saying "well it's made for kids so it's suppose to be dumb" are in the same camp who hate TMNT 3, Next Mutation, etc. which further makes them hypocritical. I can't stand it.Andrew did that some months ago when I asked him. He was like 'The adult fandom doesn't matter and what we do doesn't matter as long as the kids like it and buy the toys' or some such. Not in the matter of complaining about it, but like he was OK with it and almost wanted it to be that way. Despite the fact the dude draws a TMNT comic and posts on a TMNT forum.

It's like dude, come on.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew did that some months ago when I asked him. He was like 'The adult fandom doesn't matter and what we do doesn't matter as long as the kids like it and buy the toys' or some such. Not in the matter of complaining about it, but like he was OK with it

OK with it in the sense that there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it. Nickelodeon acquired a Product™ whose only interest to them is in a form that is boiled down to the lowest common denominator -- little kids -- so that they can just recycle "Turtlemania" over and over again. Getting worked up about the 2012 or the latest cartoon or especially the toys seems pretty dumb to me when I'm not anywhere close to the audience or demographic for it.

This isn't "up for debate," it's simple fact. This is what they've been doing since 2009. There are no signs there will be any reversing of course anytime in the foreseeable future.

and almost wanted it to be that way.

Why on earth would I want it to be that way? Don't put words in my mouth, turbo.

Despite the fact the dude draws a TMNT comic and posts on a TMNT forum.

I don't draw any TMNT comics.

"Image Comics" isn't really a publisher. They're just an umbrella for publishers.

Don't they own Spawn, though?

No, Todd McFarlane owns Spawn. "Image Comics" doesn't own anything. It's all creator-owned stuff through creator-created studios operating under one flag.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

No, Todd McFarlane owns Spawn. "Image Comics" doesn't own anything. It's all creator-owned stuff through creator-created studios operating under one flag.

So it would be no more or less different than IDW publishing a TMNT comic (not so much the differences between the Volume 3 and IDW series) since neither of them own anything, right?

What about Dark Horse?

[Poweranimals]

Yeah, I mean.. Did the two movies suck? Yeah, but the 2012 series was fantastic for the most part and we wouldn't have got that without Nickelodeon. It probably would've remained in obscurity. ROTTMNT is a big step down in quality but it's not terrible and still is kinda fun.

[pferreira]

We're just not going to agree on this, because I'm not convinced this brand needs to keep going. Especially if it's just going to keep deteriorating and being pulled away from what it was created and supposed to be, in exchange for selling more toys to a new generation of nose-pickers. That sh*t isn't what's really important.No I partly agree with where you're coming from. Quality over quantity and attention to the roots of the source material should matter more. What I am worried about when I look at other long dead franchises like Ghostbusters is coming to message boards and having absolutely nothing to talk about for twenty or more years. Where I'm coming from is if we imagine Nick suddenly dropping everything TMNT related tomorrow with no plans to do anything for the next ten or twenty years that it's that boredom and isolation from the franchise that I worry about. The TMNT fandom would decrease and become a minority, TMNT would just be seen as a fad again just like back in the late 90s/early 2000s. It's only because I've seen the same thing with other franchises. You have an Internet forum dedicated to the TV series Sliders and the guys there don't even talk about the show anymore because there is nothing new to talk about. Like I said I totally agree more time should be taken by Nick to focus on matching the source material, it's just at the same time not having TMNT would leave a big hole in stuff that people like.

Ghostbusters is a great example. Loved Ghostbusters. Probably too much. After seeing what "they" think is the right direction, I never want to see anything new again. It was two movies and a cartoon, THAT'S IT. I don't WANT new content, because the people making it are proven assholes. If it's only gonna get worse, what's the point? "Well, at least we can buy toys?" I. Don't. CARE.Well it was proven that young girls weren't even buying the toys based off the 2016 as the toy company and studio thought they would so those flopped. :D

Ghostbusters is in a real mess right now. The people behind it refuse to admit they made a bad movie with selfish political reasons. The fan forum I used to visit refuses to accept the movie's faults. It's doubtful another movie could be made without them shoehorning more of the studio propaganda or simply making a bad movie. Unless the studio and the people involved get their priorities straight and handle the franchise properly it'll just get worse. The best thing that can be said about the 2016 movie is that at least it got people talking about the franchise again. Also IDW have merged the 2016 universe with the old one to try to repair the franchise, the fans seem to like these comics somewhat.

[Leo656]

I'm okay with things being put to bed. People spend too much time on forums and message boards and whatnot anyway.

With "nothing to talk about", my sincerest hope is that many of those people go make friends with Mr. Sun and find something far, FAR more productive to do with their free time than whittle it away talking to strangers about movies and cartoons. :)

No foolin', if I had the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, one snap and ALL of your little message boards and forums would be gone, forever. Because a lot of you need real friends and to get more exercise. Just sayin'.

[Wesley]

I'm okay with things being put to bed. People spend too much time on forums and message boards and whatnot anyway.

With "nothing to talk about", my sincerest hope is that many of those people go make friends with Mr. Sun and find something far, FAR more productive to do with their free time than whittle it away talking to strangers about movies and cartoons. :)

No foolin', if I had the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, one snap and ALL of your little message boards and forums would be gone, forever. Because a lot of you need real friends and to get more exercise. Just sayin'.

Agreed. Life’s too short. Also, I dunno why some people get so obsessed with franchises.

[pferreira]

With "nothing to talk about", my sincerest hope is that many of those people go make friends with Mr. Sun Well I do need to get more Vitamin D and I live in the UK so that can be quite a problem. :lol:

Agreed. Life’s too short. Also, I dunno why some people get so obsessed with franchises.People have hobbies, people are fans of stuff. Unfortunately mine keep me indoors.

[Wesley]

Well I do need to get more Vitamin D and I live in the UK so that can be quite a problem. :lol:

I agree. I was actually just thinking what you said. I live in Ireland and the weather’s been bad for the past week or so.

[bwwd]

BEst thing that happened to TMNT property since first movies , we got NECA tmnt movie figures thanks to them, they arent strict and let multiple turtles versions to exist wihout neglecting them.
Its scary to think what would happen if nickelodeon wouldnt do this or if warner bros did it, warner would be the worst.
Nickelodeon is perfect fit for tmnt even if i dont like their experiment with kiddie turtles i appreciate their respect to older versions.

[pferreira]

I agree. I was actually just thinking what you said. I live in Ireland and the weather’s been bad for the past week or so.Not to get off topic but the UK has so much bad weather it's actually advisable to go out more when there's sunshine that's why my doctor gets me to take Vitamin D supplements.

[Wesley]

Not to get off topic but the UK has so much bad weather it's actually advisable to go out more when there's sunshine that's why my doctor gets me to take Vitamin D supplements.

Good advice.

Back to TMNT, I’m indifferent to Nickelodeon buying out the franchise. I would like if the 2003 series got a proper dvd release, though.

[Dejablue]

I'm glad that their social media brings attention to tmnt 2k3 lol

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm glad that their social media brings attention to tmnt 2k3 lol

Better than Viacom themselves.:tlol:

[Vegita-San]

then they'd have to admit to themselves that 2k3 is mostly better than the animated stuff they put out.

[Toxin45]

Well Peter laird had a creator breakdown and he did say the franchise had gotten out of control since 1988 which caused him to neglect his family and that he is getting old and tired so yeah glad he should the franchise and getting better.

[Toxin45]

Pros?

#1)A human heart -- one of the actual creators -- at the center of things, with full veto power over any and all sh**ty stuff. Quality control, let's call it, and the absence of being part of a megacorp.

#2) If not any immediate or burning creation of such, at least the possibility of quality, non-cartoon pandering TMNT movies.

#3) A likelihood that Laird would have continued chugging along on Volume 4 (I think even just him knowing there is the kind of TMNT stuff out there that there is gets to him) to its end, and probably kept Tales of the TMNT afloat, too. A possibility of a "OK, now it's your turn" of letting others loose on a Volume 5 later on.

Movies? There was always and would always be movie deals being brought to Peter and Gary Richardson's attention. And we more than likely would have gotten to see that Fusco "Batman Begins-like" script brought to life with full on grit. Instead we got TMNT 2014 and OotS, put on by focus groups and bean counters being bossed around by Michael Bay.

And a lot of people act like the 4Kids show would have been his one and only attempt at a new cartoon. Of course there'd be other deals for new cartoons on the table. Only difference? Laird would be around to smack them around and make them not have it be crap, or be a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf. He would shut that sh** right down.

Peter Laird doesn't have a say on the franchise anymore dude. So no volume 5

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Peter Laird doesn't have a say on the franchise anymore dude. So no volume 5

Peter has the right to still publish several issues of TMNT a year, it was a clause in the sale contract. So yes, he can do a volume 5.

[Toxin45]

Peter has the right to still publish several issues of TMNT a year, it was a clause in the sale contract. So yes, he can do a volume 5.

He needs to finish volume 4 dude not volume 5 18 issues for volume 4 not volume 5.He only wrote four issues and has little interest in continuing the series at this point and it is still on hiatus plus Peter Laird is getting old and tired and he completes volume 4 which had 32 issue with 14 more issues I think he would conclude the mirage continuity for good.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Peter Laird doesn't have a say on the franchise anymore dude. So no volume 5

I can't help but feel that you're insisting on telling fans of Mirage (particularly Andrew) to move on from it.

[Toxin45]

I can't help but feel that you're insisting on telling fans of Mirage (particularly Andrew) to move on from it.

Well I mean I mean The series had gone on long enough and maybe it's time for it to rest I mean they still read it just i fear Peter Laird might retire at this point and even he did volume 5 it would still conclude the mirage continuity for good. I am telling them try new things that aren't tmnt related like try other franchise and other series.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

He needs to finish volume 4 dude not volume 5 18 issues for volume 4 not volume 5.He only wrote four issues and has little interest in continuing the series at this point and it is still on hiatus plus Peter Laird is getting old and tired and he completes volume 4 which had 32 issue with 14 more issues I think he would conclude the mirage continuity for good.

All I was saying is legally we could make a volume 5 if he wanted to. I personally don't care if he does or not; that is his own creative decision.

[Toxin45]

All I was saying is legally we could make a volume 5 if he wanted to. I personally don't care if he does or not; that is his own creative decision.

Whatever dude

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Whatever dude

Eh, it's all good. :)

[pferreira]

Peter has the right to still publish several issues of TMNT a year, it was a clause in the sale contract. So yes, he can do a volume 5.I think Laird should finish Volume 4. Perhaps if IDW move onto doing reprints of Volume 4 they'll ask for Laird's assistance.

[Andrew NDB]

I can see a lot of PLANTS in the votes.

[Toxin45]

I can see a lot of PLANTS in the votes.

Oh quit your whining will ya there are no plants.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh quit your whining will ya there are no plants.

That sounds like something a PLANT would say.

[shredder orokusaki]

Glad for the 2012 series? Yes. But not for this terrible horrible very bad thing that is Rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles. For future as i said the next seires msut be like the 2003 or 2012 dark and with lot of action.

[sdp]

Laird got tired of TMNTbut he still loves the franchise. Hoped for the best and sold, not even for a lot. It does feel like exactly what happened with Lucas and star wars and how we got only the popular stuff made by the new company as soon as they lost the heart that held it together. I miss Lairs, but a sale i guess was inevitable, he seemed irritated in his last few Laird blogs before he sold it.

Pros?

#1)A human heart -- one of the actual creators -- at the center of things, with full veto power over any and all sh**ty stuff. Quality control, let's call it, and the absence of being part of a megacorp.

#2) If not any immediate or burning creation of such, at least the possibility of quality, non-cartoon pandering TMNT movies.

#3) A likelihood that Laird would have continued chugging along on Volume 4 (I think even just him knowing there is the kind of TMNT stuff out there that there is gets to him) to its end, and probably kept Tales of the TMNT afloat, too. A possibility of a "OK, now it's your turn" of letting others loose on a Volume 5 later on.

Movies? There was always and would always be movie deals being brought to Peter and Gary Richardson's attention. And we more than likely would have gotten to see that Fusco "Batman Begins-like" script brought to life with full on grit. Instead we got TMNT 2014 and OotS, put on by focus groups and bean counters being bossed around by Michael Bay.

And a lot of people act like the 4Kids show would have been his one and only attempt at a new cartoon. Of course there'd be other deals for new cartoons on the table. Only difference? Laird would be around to smack them around and make them not have it be crap, or be a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf that's a regurgitation of Fred Wolf. He would shut that sh** right down.

[Bahamut810]

Zombie Thread!

[Anarchistguy]

Am I glad that Nick owns the TMNT?...

Well, thanks to that sale, every single one of my fears and nightmares about the franchise came true, which led me to mostly (99.5%) give up on it

So no.

[Mugic]

Alopex was the only good thing to come out of the buyout in my opinion

[Andrew NDB]

Am I glad that Nick owns the TMNT?...

Well, thanks to that sale, every single one of my fears and nightmares about the franchise came true, which led me to mostly (99.5%) give up on it

So no.

That's fair.

[shredder orokusaki]

Am I glad that Nick owns the TMNT?...

Well, thanks to that sale, every single one of my fears and nightmares about the franchise came true, which led me to mostly (99.5%) give up on it

So no.

Your fear and nightmares was sometinh like Rise of the teenage mutant ninja tutrtles?

[Anarchistguy]

Your fear and nightmares was sometinh like Rise of the teenage mutant ninja tutrtles?

Among other things...

[Andrew NDB]

Dan Berger, just after the sale in 2009 (widely posted about, not a secret): "So the Nick guys came into the offices for a few days and they only seem super interested in the Fred Wolf cartoon."

Fast forward to 2021 and here we are still. Yep.

[Coola Yagami]

Dan Berger, just after the sale in 2009 (widely posted about, not a secret): "So the Nick guys came into the offices for a few days and they only seem super interested in the Fred Wolf cartoon."

Fast forward to 2021 and here we are still. Yep.

Here's a good question. After the end of 2003 and Turtles Forever, other than Volume 4, it didn't look like there woulda been any sort of rush to have new TMNT out, possibly not even the IDW books.

Now several years later, what woulda been the chances we would have seen any new Ninja Turtles.... anything.... had they not sold? Would they have just sit on the brand during all this time, possibly exception Volume 4, maybe not cancel Tales of the TMNT 2?

[Andrew NDB]

Here's a good question. After the end of 2003 and Turtles Forever, other than Volume 4, it didn't look like there woulda been any sort of rush to have new TMNT out, possibly not even the IDW books.

No "possibly," there flat out wouldn't have been. IDW only got the license because Nick was freshly in a place to license it out. IDW wasn't even the first one trying to get the license.

Though it's funny to imagine Tom and Bobby pitching Peter Laird on the first year or so of a prospective IDW TMNT. It would be "absolutely not"s and "no way"s the whole way around from Peter.

Now several years later, what woulda been the chances we would have seen any new Ninja Turtles.... anything.... had they not sold? Would they have just sit on the brand during all this time, possibly exception Volume 4, maybe not cancel Tales of the TMNT 2?

I think I remember him suggesting he wouldn't have kept Tales V2 afloat much longer, sale or no sale, but I suspect he would have been motivated to at least put out a new issue of Vol. 4 every now and again over the years.

Beyond the comics? It's pretty stupid to think that Laird wouldn't have had another cartoon offer/opportunity -- or many cartoon offers/opportunities -- in the years since 2k3 went off the air. I don't think it would have even been very long after 2009 at all. Hard to say if he'd be amenable to the sort of changes most companies would probably want, so I'd wager by this point now we'd just be finally getting some kind of new TMNT cartoon that he would be OK with. Nothing like Ciro's show and nothing like Rise, of course. I would imagine -- obviously -- something more in line with 2k3, though stylistically different and hopefully less kiddy. But who knows.

Movie-wise? I'm sure he would have vetoed a whole slew of bad ones over the years since 2009. I wouldn't be too convinced we'd even have one new TMNT movie by now, but there'd probably be scripts and interest from this studio or that studio.

[Papenbrook]

No, I'm not content with the studio's handling of the property. I'm fact, I would even go so far to state that I am heavily dissuaded by it.

ViacomCBS is a malicious corporation who's culture continues to cover and shelter the vast majority of sexual offenders/predators. In addition, they're a money-hungry entity that regularly/routinely commits various felonies like money laundering, tax evasion, and IP theft. They consistently and deliberately prevent marginalized identities
from holding any sort of position that would help spread influence through widespread agency and autonomy. They also regularly engage in rampant cronyism/nepotism through their corrupt handling of hiring/promoting individuals who serve as willing grovelers.

Frankly, it is disappointing to myself and others. I hope that they're halted before they attempt to enact any more damage towards the franchise. They really represent some of the worst atrocities that Hollywood tends to engage in.

[Jephael]

I wonder if Nickelodeon and/or Viacom would ever consider selling the property to Warner Bros. I feel like TMNT would fit perfectly there, especially since they've already crossed over with the DC Universe (mostly Batman of course).

[Leo656]

I wonder if Nickelodeon and/or Viacom would ever consider selling the property to Warner Bros. I feel like TMNT would fit perfectly there, especially since they've already crossed over with the DC Universe (mostly Batman of course).

That'd be the best-case scenario (and the only thing that could "save" the brand, at this point). But it'd never happen. I honestly don't see Nick ever selling it, for the same reason Disney hoards properties: "WE might've f*cked it up, but someone way smarter than us might do better and actually make a lot more money on this thing than we did. And we can't have that, because then we lose money AND look stupid. Better we hang onto the thing and just lose a small pittance on failed reboots."

I mean, they already made back way more than they paid Laird for the property, and they make up any other losses with what they take in from Spongebob. Even if every Nick-branded reboot fails, they can afford to take the hits. There's still value in the name brand alone. It'd take something of a miracle for them to even consider getting rid of it. Even if all they ever did was sell retro merch like FW-branded beach towels they'd still be making in enough to make them keep the brand.

But yeah, Nick buying it was definitely not a good thing. Short-term positives followed by a strong of long-term failures. I called it from the jump, but I'm such a general pessimist that nobody ever listens to me. :lol:

[NinjaPug]

Yep, the only way TMNT isn't owned by Nick/Viacom is if someone buys Viacom outright.

There have been rumblings that some tech company could buy Viacom but honestly even if that happened I doubt their vision of TMNT would be much different from what we've gotten since 2009.

[D-ray]

I don't really mind it. The 2013 serie wasn't my favourite, but its somewhat nice to see that they try to make the franchise feel new.

I would like to see the rights of TMNT in the ends of someone less "kids oriented" but I guess that's fine.

[Torterra]

I'm glad honestly after the 2003 series, the Turtles Forever movie and the 2007 movie I completely forgot about turtles till the 2012 series was announced. While there was some stuff in that series I wasn't a big fan of I'm glad it did lit the turtle's fire and brought them back into the media after a few years.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm glad honestly after the 2003 series, the Turtles Forever movie and the 2007 movie I completely forgot about turtles till the 2012 series was announced.

The 2012 series was announced like the next week.