"Be patient. It’s going to be okay. We’re being respectful of the franchise.”

[Shark_Blade]

“Be patient. It’s going to be okay. We’re being respectful of the franchise.”

-Andy Suriano on Rise of the TMNT.

https://twitter.com/tmnt/status/965003377250889728

Thoughts?

[newfan]

As well as a lot of hype they got a lot of negativity too, they are just addressing it.

Not everyone is going to like the new designs and things like the leader shift but 'be patient' might mean it isn't going to be AS different as people think, wait (all the way till autumn) and see first.

Edit: re post below, yeah there's the difference between not liking something/giving an opinion and losing it/trolling etc.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Haters gonna hate, thats all I gotta say.

Even if I don't find myself interested in Rise, I find no reason to create a storm/flare over it like is being done on Social Media.

Totally superflous but I couldn't care less and find it equally superflous to complain about the negativity as complaining about the show.

[plastroncafe]

Edit: re post below, yeah there's the difference between not liking something/giving an opinion and losing it/trolling etc.

There should be a difference. There should be nuance.
Folks should be able to say: This doesn't work for me, and then be able to articulate why it doesn't work, and/or just move on.

Rather than...well, what folks have been saying to garner a response like the one that started this thread.

Are those days gone?
Did they ever exist in the first place?

Heck, I have yet to see people actually define the word: Toxic.

[AlZarkovski]

Of course Andy had to say it. He could not say, "We do not know this franchise and do not understand it, and we did not get enough time to understand and do something right."

This is a standard phrase that they say always. And nothing more.:roll:

[sdp]

Jeeze, the feedback has to be really ugly for they to tweet it out.

[Coola Yagami]

Bebop, Rocksteady and Technodrome. Season 2. As damage control.

[IndigoErth]

Respectful... That remains to be seen until we see a good chunk of the first season.

And a shark could claim that it's being respectful and only just swimming circles around you, but until you know its motives via its actions it's likewise hard to trust... (And if it talks, well definitely don't.)



At this point in time, based on what we've been told, I don't call overhauls of who characters are as people - the deepest fundamental aspects of them that have long developed over time - being respectful. No more than, say, cloning someone post-death but saying, Hey, I think I'll genetically change his/her personality, because why not! I want him/her different.

If it was respectful of the characters (granted they said franchise but that shouldn't mean much different), I wouldn't feel like the guy I relate to most just won't even be there anymore... But we shall see.

[CyberCubed]

Bebop, Rocksteady and Technodrome. Season 2. As damage control.

What a time to be alive.

[Andrew NDB]

The "fandom" is really making itself look really, really bad and really dumb over RotTMNT. At large. For a variety of reasons, some painfully obvious.

[CyberCubed]

The "fandom" is really making itself look really, really bad and really dumb over RotTMNT. At large. For a variety of reasons, some painfully obvious.

To be fair it's mostly people on twitter, most people here aren't posting there. The twitter TMNT fandom is pretty vicious, as is the one on tumblr.

I barely use social media so just imagine this place but 10 times worse.

[AquaParade]

I admit to having mixed feelings.

I'm perfectly comfortable in knowing that the show isn't for me. I have no interest in watching it, it's not aimed at me, I need to let people who enjoy it, enjoy it.

That said, I'm sort of elated that this is getting negative feedback, because, idk, to be frank, it just looks really bad to me. Sure, it's fair to wait until the debut to judge it, and I'll even check out the debut episode out of curiosity, but I'm giving my first impressions here.

I think negative feedback can be a healthy thing for the franchise.When it comes to choosing directions for further movies, video games, comics....the success of this take on the TMNT could very well be influential. So I can't deny that I'd be pleased with the fandom giving the message that "Hey, this TMNT Injustice 2 DLC is great, we'll buy this" and "Please try again with the direction of the cartoon".
Then again, maybe the fact that they both can exist despite eachother is enough reason not to worry about "Rise..."

[Shellington]

I'm ready to wait and see how it goes along.

[newfan]

I haven't noticed that Nicks TMNT twitter account has much of a vicious following but not sure about the other TMNT fan twitter accounts.

Agreed with Aquaparade in relation to feedback, generally speaking.

[Vegita-San]

Jeeze, the feedback has to be really ugly for they to tweet it out.

I'm honestly shocked at how many on social media seem to HATE these designs. Especially considering how many seemed to love the PD mess.

It must be really bad if they feel the need to address it.


But just one look at the Splinter design makes me think they arn't being respectful to the franchise and are more parodying it.

The "fandom" is really making itself look really, really bad and really dumb over RotTMNT. At large. For a variety of reasons, some painfully obvious.




I'm shocked your not at the fore front of all the complaining.... this entire series would be like your worst nightmare ;o).

[AquaParade]

I'm honestly shocked at how many on social media seem to HATE these designs. Especially considering how many seemed to love the PD mess.

It must be really bad if they feel the need to address it.



While these things can be difficult to guage, it wasn't at all my impression that social media loved the Platinum Dune designs.

[CyberCubed]

While these things can be difficult to guage, it wasn't at all my impression that social media loved the Platinum Dune designs.

Vegita-san is trolling as usual.

[TurtleWA]

Yeah some fans are not a good representation of the fandom. I’ve seen several good social media posts and contributed several myself. But it’s not easy to balance the scale.

Negativity seems to always get more attention. I wonder how many people want to be positive but don’t have the energy to put up with negative comments about their positive comment. I’ve had people respond to my “good” comment with “bad” comments. But I haven’t seen any “bad” comments replied to with “good.”

Why are negative people always more loud than positive? The new look of the show and toys could actually be really liked by a lot of people. But they just don’t voice their opinions.

[Xav]

Bebop, Rocksteady and Technodrome. Season 2. As damage control.Damage control for what? The show's target audience isn't going to care about any of that stuff.

[NinjaPug]

Who was the poster on here that got mad at Ciro for basically telling him to **** off after they sent him a message on Facebook about the things they didn't like about his show?

[Vegita-San]

Who was the poster on here that got mad at Ciro for basically telling him to **** off after they sent him a message on Facebook about the things they didn't like about his show?

That would be me.

After months of basically saying positive things about the show, I dared to say two things I didn't like. Basically I didn't care for Casey's Stupid FacePaint look...and that the Pulverizer was the most useless tmnt character ever invented.

I basically got F Bombed into oblivion and got told to commit suicide by his yes fans.
I'm still rather shocked at how fast that dove tailed.

It was only after that I learned that he'd already been driven mad by Cube who drove him off here. so the over reaction to an opinion made a little more sense.
Even though I shouldn't have to apologize for an opinion, I did anyway after learning all of the hate he was getting from other people, but he was having none of it...and that was it with that.

Suffice it to say, that was the last time I felt the need to interact with any of the new corporate shows creators.

[newfan]

That would be me.

After months of basically saying positive things about the show

It was only after that I learned that he'd already been driven mad by Cube who drove him off here. .

Both of those comments surprised me

[Vegita-San]

Both of those comments surprised me

Lets just say I Was more open to the shows flaws :).

then Season 2 happened, followed by the Farm episodes, and I all but lost hope at that point and would have given up, if there wasn't still something I liked about it.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm shocked your not at the fore front of all the complaining.... this entire series would be like your worst nightmare ;o).

Why would I care either way about the latest cartoon for little kids? And even if I did, why would I expect it to be exactly like all the other little kid TMNT cartoons?

[CyberCubed]

Who was the poster on here that got mad at Ciro for basically telling him to **** off after they sent him a message on Facebook about the things they didn't like about his show?

Vegita-san harassed Ciro over on his social media pages, I'm not surprised he got blocked/banned or whatever.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I hope that if any of the Rise Crew decide to join this place, that they won't be driven off like Ciro was because Nick Baxter wasn't like his 2k3 counterpart.

Why would I care either way about the latest cartoon for little kids? And even if I did, why would I expect it to be exactly like all the other little kid TMNT cartoons?

Yeah, there is no reason for you to care about the FAKE tmnt.

[Vegita-San]

Why would I care either way about the latest cartoon for little kids? And even if I did, why would I expect it to be exactly like all the other little kid TMNT cartoons?

I picture you going into a froth any time bebop and rocksteady get mentioned as someones favorite characters :)

[Andrew NDB]

I picture you going into a froth any time bebop and rocksteady get mentioned as someones favorite characters :)

Well, I've always found that to be a great litmus test.

[newfan]

I hope that if any of the Rise Crew decide to join this place, that they won't be driven off like Ciro was because Nick Baxter wasn't like his 2k3 counterpart.


I've seen him receive a lot of vulgarity from someone over the finale, just constant swearing at him, how does a person plan to get a point across that way? well unless that the point is just they aren't happy, it did that, Ciro seemed to handle the comments I saw on the finale okay though.
I was surprised to learn he was on here, when I looked for his posts I think one of them said 'I really shouldn't be here' maybe as a creator he thought he shouldn't be?

[Vegita-San]

I've seen him receive a lot of vulgarity from someone over the finale, just constant swearing at him, how does a person plan to get a point across that way? well unless that the point is just they aren't happy, it did that, but I mean a valid one.

Maybe by that point in season 5 he learned how to deal with it. Back in Season 1, not so much. After I learned how some other 'fans' had been dealing with their feelings towards the show, by going at him with all kinds of crazy stuff...some of the anger I felt at how I had been treated vanished a bit and replaced with understanding.. It all kind of fell into place.

Not one of my prouder moments. But still have no desire to seek out any new tmnt talent from this point forward. Not worth it.

[newfan]

So that show got a lot of it too, I don't know what the overall reaction was to 2012 compared to this one but I imagine similar from those who didn't like it. 2K3 would not really have had the social media aspect in it's time but I imagine there was some negativity before that started?
It isn't just TMNT , I followed a show my daughter likes and they tweeted about not hating.

[Ninjinister]

The "fandom" is really making itself look really, really bad and really dumb over RotTMNT. At large. For a variety of reasons, some painfully obvious.

The rest of the internet is worse right now. There's at least some people here who like/are optimistic/don't care here.

[Andrew NDB]

The rest of the internet is worse right now.

There's plenty on FB. Practically every TMNT FB group is lit up like a Christmas tree right now with 30, 40 year-olds galore going, "WHAAAATTT??? They're ruining TMNT!!!! #notmyTMNT!!!"

SAD!

[Ninjinister]

There's plenty on FB. Practically every TMNT FB group is lit up like a Christmas tree right now with 30, 40 year-olds galore going, "WHAAAATTT??? They're ruining TMNT!!!! #notmyTMNT!!!"

SAD!

I hate to say it, but it's really the casuals/non-fans. Yeah, they're the TMNT groups on FB, but they're the same kind of people who refuse to accept a non-Cajun Leatherhead or Casey with short hair.

People who have been "in the game" for the whole length are more "meh" about it on the whole.

[dragonside]

I think we have to at least give it a chance.


And hey, if it turns out to be a flop, they'll try again right?

Maybe we'll get an:

Medicore to okay tv show, but a much better movie (series)?

Comics seems like they are doing pretty well.

Balance will come....

[Vegita-San]

that's because 'old time' fans have been through the wringer already. we've suffered bad tmnt. We've suffered tmnt resurgance. We know there is usually a light at the end of the tunnel.

And I think most of us are at the point where, if there isn't this time, that's OK too. We've had 25 great years and that's enough for most of us.

[IndigoErth]

And hey, if it turns out to be a flop, they'll try again right?
God, I hope so. I do worry that a series (this or any other) could flop and they choose to blame the franchise for not being popular anymore rather than their own choices.



Provided I make it to old age, personally I really hope the franchise outlives me. For this generation to be old and dying off, but know the Turtles still hopefully continue on without us would be pretty cool. Nah, 25 years isn't enough... Wish I could live long enough to see them hit a century, but that ain't gonna happen. My nephew could though.

[sdp]

I thought those were the non toxic places of the fandom :lol:wasnt that argued in the other thread

[Andrew NDB]

I think we have to at least give it a chance.

No we don't. I mean, you should if you want to venture an opinion... but just keep in mind RotTMNT and it's staff don't owe one thing to 30, 40 year old fans.

[Powder]

I hate to say it, but it's really the casuals/non-fans. Yeah, they're the TMNT groups on FB, but they're the same kind of people who refuse to accept a non-Cajun Leatherhead or Casey with short hair.

People who have been "in the game" for the whole length are more "meh" about it on the whole.

:tthumbsu:

I'm just glad someone else can see that, or is willing to admit it. It's mostly been myself & Cubed making that distinction up to this point. :tlol:

[plastroncafe]

I hate to say it, but it's really the casuals/non-fans. Yeah, they're the TMNT groups on FB, but they're the same kind of people who refuse to accept a non-Cajun Leatherhead or Casey with short hair.

People who have been "in the game" for the whole length are more "meh" about it on the whole.

Yeah, the No True Scotsman thing isn't going to work.
Wee all look like crap when orders in our fandom do stupid crap like assault creators online.

[Papenbrook]

That would be me.

After months of basically saying positive things about the show, I dared to say two things I didn't like. Basically I didn't care for Casey's Stupid FacePaint look...and that the Pulverizer was the most useless tmnt character ever invented.

I basically got F Bombed into oblivion and got told to commit suicide by his yes fans.
I'm still rather shocked at how fast that dove tailed.

It was only after that I learned that he'd already been driven mad by Cube who drove him off here. so the over reaction to an opinion made a little more sense.
Even though I shouldn't have to apologize for an opinion, I did anyway after learning all of the hate he was getting from other people, but he was having none of it...and that was it with that.

Suffice it to say, that was the last time I felt the need to interact with any of the new corporate shows creators.

This reminds me of a certain incident. An executive/producer (of the 2k12 TMNT show) cursed out and permanently banned a forum member on Facebook.

Good times. (*sarcasm*)

[IndigoErth]

Oh lord... Before I came around, I guess. Can both sides just behave maybe...? lol Is it so hard not to harass the creators and others involved? On the other hand, if they go poking around forums and whatnot and can't take the criticism, well they did choose on their own to go stepping into the fire and maybe aught to have avoided it. Kinda goes both ways.

It may be said that they don't owe fans anything, but fans also don't exactly owe show/movie/whatever creators anything either.

But fans are going to be passionate about things they love and are going to have an opinion, no stopping that.



I own that I have some strong opinions and concerns right now, and I think justified considering some of the bigger, and kinda cruddy sounding, changes have been aimed right at my boy... Doesn't mean I won't "give it a chance" though. More than likely I'll watch, even if just in hopes they'll straighten that out... (Or at best to just see what levels of ridiculous they can reach and enjoy the discussions that will no doubt happen.)

Right now I'm just there watching any move like...

https://i.imgur.com/TjONeR7.jpg

Yeah I see you.


________________


Side note... watch THIS one actually get somewhere in the Kid's Choice Awards, while 2012 kept losing to the Sponge.

[Roseangelo]

Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.

[AquaParade]

Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.

Well said. I came here to say something similar. We saw the exact same thing with the Platinum Dunes movies, Justice League, etc.

[CyberCubed]

Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.

To be fair on social media that happens with anything these days, same with The Last Jedi, all recent Marvel superhero movies, etc.

I don't visit social media so I have no idea what goes on there, but I do think there's a lot of teen fans of 2012 Nick that are causing the backlash too. A lot of kids who grew up with the 2012 version are now teenagers and will resist change to a new series. Reminds us of ourselves when we were teens and we saw various franchises we like change.

[Ninjinister]

Yeah, the No True Scotsman thing isn't going to work.
Wee all look like crap when orders in our fandom do stupid crap like assault creators online.

You took what I said completely out of context.

[plastroncafe]

Criticism and flame baiting are nowhere near the same thing, nor should they be treated as the same thing.

You took what I said completely out of context.

How so?

[Roseangelo]

To be fair on social media that happens with anything these days, same with The Last Jedi, all recent Marvel superhero movies, etc.

I don't visit social media so I have no idea what goes on there, but I do think there's a lot of teen fans of 2012 Nick that are causing the backlash too. A lot of kids who grew up with the 2012 version are now teenagers and will resist change to a new series. Reminds us of ourselves when we were teens and we saw various franchises we like change.

I'm not talking generally. I am talking to the people reading this right here. Vegita was an a** to Ciro and that is not acceptable. Yes, there are a**holes somewhere who will say sh*tty, unnecessary things to good people. Buck up and don't be that person. You. Right there. Reading this. Right now.

[Ninjinister]

How so?

I was making an observation and went out of my way to make a point about how I wasn't criticizing. "Casuals" are actually more important to franchises than the die-hards and everybody's a casual fan of something so I'm not complaining about it. I just have noticed that it is the people who aren't as into it as us - casuals, non-fans, fair-weather fans, whatever - that have been most aggressive about it. But a lot of them are the ones that refused to accept any of the other incarnations or just never paid them any mind. When you see a lot of people post in these groups you tend to remember a name or two. Or, conversely it's like the friends/family/colleagues that don't follow it but like anytime there's any news blurb about the Turtles they tag you in a post about it.

Again, it's just an observation, and I might just have too small of a sample size, but by and large it's not those who have stuck with the series that are the biggest complainers. As Vegita-San said, it's probably because we've seen worse. It's like when people put Shaq Fu in their top 10 worst games ever list. I wouldn't even put it in my top 25 in the genre alone. But that's because most people don't have the frame of reference to compare it to. Think about it... it's never the people who have watched every episode of 87, Next Mutation, 2003, 2012, all six theatrical films, and read every comic who would be complaining about this you-know-what'ing their "childhood". It's those who saw the original cartoon and maybe the first few movies and forgot about Turtles for decades.

But by and large it's the "casuals" or whatever and the kids who actually are going to make or break the cartoon, and if they aren't liking what's being put down, it's not gonna fly. It doesn't matter if we like it or not. I may not have spelled that part out precisely, and that may be my error, but that's the main point I was trying to make - if the GP doesn't like it, it might be in trouble.

But I do feel like my context about how I wasn't trying to be an elitist about it was pretty clear.

[Vegita-San]

Oh lord... Before I came around, I guess. Can both sides just behave maybe...? lol Is it so hard not to harass the creators and others involved? On the other hand, if they go poking around forums and whatnot and can't take the criticism, well they did choose on their own to go stepping into the fire and maybe aught to have avoided it. Kinda goes both ways.

It may be said that they don't owe fans anything, but fans also don't exactly owe show/movie/whatever creators anything either.

But fans are going to be passionate about things they love and are going to have an opinion, no stopping that.




Bingo. Don't be jerks to people with opinions and they won't be jerks back. don't think you can handle that, don't interact with people. simple as that. And just know not everyone with some criticism is attacking. lots of people loose sight of that fast because they see the hate everywhere else and it piles up in their brain... and I think that's what happened in my case. He probably had a case of hate overload and chose that moment to let loose a little. Lucky me.

Personally, I think show creators are better off not stepping into this lions den of 'fun' that is this fandom with people ripping each other a new one left and right first chance they get.. they'll keep their sanity far faster.

[plastroncafe]

...

It's like when people put Shaq Fu in their top 10 worst games ever list. I wouldn't even put it in my top 25 in the genre alone. But that's because most people don't have the frame of reference to compare it to. Think about it... it's never the people who have watched every episode of 87, Next Mutation, 2003, 2012, all six theatrical films, and read every comic who would be complaining about this you-know-what'ing their "childhood". It's those who saw the original cartoon and maybe the first few movies and forgot about Turtles for decades.

But by and large it's the "casuals" or whatever and the kids who actually are going to make or break the cartoon, and if they aren't liking what's being put down, it's not gonna fly. It doesn't matter if we like it or not. I may not have spelled that part out precisely, and that may be my error, but that's the main point I was trying to make - if the GP doesn't like it, it might be in trouble.

But I do feel like my context about how I wasn't trying to be an elitist about it was pretty clear.

I can't separate the pejorative term casual from elitism.

Which again brings me back to the no true Scotsman fallacy. If they were real fans, ie in fandom for a specified duration of time, they wouldn't have been upset about something. But since they are they're clearly not real fans.

Someone's a fan if they like a thing.
There's no set To Do List that must be completed before someone is bestowed the moniker of fan.
And anyone who tells you there is, is pulling some gatekeeper nonsense out of their behind.

We have pages and pages of threads on here where people are still but mad about the very idea of Leonardo not being the leader.

Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.

[dragonside]

God, I hope so. I do worry that a series (this or any other) could flop and they choose to blame the franchise for not being popular anymore rather than their own choices.


Provided I make it to old age, personally I really hope the franchise outlives me. For this generation to be old and dying off, but know the Turtles still hopefully continue on without us would be pretty cool. Nah, 25 years isn't enough... Wish I could live long enough to see them hit a century, but that ain't gonna happen. My nephew could though.

hey man, I'd like that too, except I'd be sad that I missed whatever the future holds. But i'm sure there will be others to inherit the enjoyment that the TMNT provide.

No we don't. I mean, you should if you want to venture an opinion... but just keep in mind RotTMNT and it's staff don't owe one thing to 30, 40 year old fans.


fair enough. they owe really nothing to us. I for one, will be giving it a shot as with everything else. I'd say for those that want to skip it, go ahead and skip it.

[Sumac]

Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.
So much self-hatred and projection...
How about to avoid unnecessary generalization?

Oh wait, generalization is easier than thinking.
And a very good tool to feel good about oneself.

So progressive. So emphatic.
So kind and loving.
I want to vomit.

[Andrew NDB]

It's really very simple and it's being ridiculously overcomplicated. Let me simplify:

Are you an older, existing fan? Like over the age of 25?

Your options:

1. Wait until you see it, voice your opinions to like fans.
2. Watch something else more your demographic. This isn't remotely for you anyway. If you have some idea of "I'm a hardcore TMNT fan for life" then great... enjoy it or don't, but have no illusions about your watching it or possibly buying a toy mattering. Like, at all. Spending decades of loyalty on a thing like children's TMNT cartoons does not give you some secret kick me in the ass award.
3. Say nothing, your opinion does not and should not matter to TPTB about their latest kiddie show.
4. Scream into the abyss. Because no one cares. Except loud, dumb casuals.
5. stfu

Are you within the age of 5-13?

1. Post your opinion everywhere. This show is for you and is being sold to you. TPTB will and should listen to you.
2. Buy toys.
3. Enjoy the show. Or don't. Or watch some other kiddie show, there's plenty. This isn't some special thing.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So much self-hatred and projection...
How about to avoid unnecessary generalization?

Oh wait, generalization is easier than thinking.
And a very good tool to feel good about oneself.

So progressive. So emphatic.
So kind and loving.
I want to vomit.

I'm a fan who's blissfully far away from anything resembling misery, but that would make me Larry :)

[plastroncafe]

* And a boy.

That's an important footnote.
Because if you love this show and you're a girl, talking about how much you like this show could get it cancelled. (https://io9.gizmodo.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317)

[CyberCubed]

This looks like it's another one of those threads that Machias will lock and put into the disintegrater unit before long.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

* And a boy.

That's an important footnote.
Because if you love this show and you're a girl, talking about how much you like this show could get it cancelled. (https://io9.gizmodo.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317)

Hmm, its the first time I've heard of anything like that, but each business decision to their own I guess.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic embraced its older male audience and is still a huge success in terms of toy sales, so I think maybe shows aimed at young boys could still be successful in toy sales somehow while having a large female audience maybe? I dunno, but I'm not bothered by it.

[Ninjinister]

I can't separate the pejorative term casual from elitism.

Which again brings me back to the no true Scotsman fallacy. If they were real fans, ie in fandom for a specified duration of time, they wouldn't have been upset about something. But since they are they're clearly not real fans.

Someone's a fan if they like a thing.
There's no set To Do List that must be completed before someone is bestowed the moniker of fan.
And anyone who tells you there is, is pulling some gatekeeper nonsense out of their behind.

We have pages and pages of threads on here where people are still but mad about the very idea of Leonardo not being the leader.

Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.

With the first one I thought perhaps you just missed my point. Now it's clear that you understood it and you're twisting it for your own gain. Either that or you're just TL;DRing and making assumptions.

Now that is sad.

EDIT: casual isn't a pejorative term unless you make it one. YOU are the one who has done so. I just wrote an entire paragraph about how they're more important to the franchise than the diehards. I obviously have no contempt for them.

[newfan]

So.... we're all getting into a fight over the toon now?

I don't know what the fan categoreis are, casual purist? etc. As for the fans on facebook, I also heard they like to tear up 2012 and some apparently are in thier 30s and 40's, so I imagine that some of them might not that new to the franchise.. I suppose people are talking generally and casual may not always mean newer.
Anyway, some people are just too much and others more reasonable, as someone pointed out (think it was turtleWA) those with more positive attitudes aren't posting as much.


FredWolfLeonardo
Quote:

I'm a fan who's blissfully far away from anything resembling misery, but that would make me Larry

FredWolf, I do beleive that, you are one of the more happy and relaxed people on here :)

[FredWolfLeonardo]

FredWolf, I do beleive that, you are one of the more happy and relaxed people on here :)

Awww thanks :)

You're pretty chill here as well 8)

[newfan]

Awww thanks :)

You're pretty chill here as well 8)

:lol: not so much sadly, but I'm not all misery either :)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Didn't we hear similair after the "Blue Door" script was revealed?

[Papenbrook]

Didn't we hear similair after the "Blue Door" script was revealed?

*sigh*

I highly doubt that it will be anywhere near as bad as the "Blue Door" script.

I will place my trust in Andy Suriano. I believe in him. ;)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

*sigh*

I highly doubt that it will be anywhere near as bad as the "Blue Door" script.

I will place my trust in Andy Suriano. I believe in him. ;)

Actually, all these changes opens up a new door with later possibilities for a blue door.

[CyberCubed]

The new showrunners/directors seem pretty excited about their new vision in the toyfair interviews. They're well aware they made drastic changes but say that old fans should keep an open mind.

[Andrew NDB]

but say that old fans should keep an open mind.

They don't even really need to dignify that kind of response. What they should say is, "Keep an open mind and watch... or just don't watch. This isn't for you anyway, and will not be made or broken with or without your viewership."

[plastroncafe]

They don't even really need to dignify that kind of response. What they should say is, "Keep an open mind and watch... or just don't watch. This isn't for you anyway, and will not be made or broken with or without your viewership."

And I'm sure the folks in question would have taken that in stride, and not doubled down on their mean-spirited efforts.

I feel for these folks.
They're just trying to make a thing, but thanks to the fandom making that thing becomes a hostage negotiation.

[Sabacooza]

Then make something good and there will be less backlash.

[Andrew NDB]

They're just trying to make a thing, but thanks to the fandom making that thing becomes a hostage negotiation.

That's true, but it's only becoming that because they humor it as such. They should stop humoring it. The little tykes will come and eat this up, like they do every generation. For about 2 or 3 seasons. And hey, that's about the time they'll throw out another horrible movie we can all make fun of that will actually try to placate "us."

"Hang on, hunnie... I need to remember to set the DVR to record the latest 'Ninja Turtles' cartoon before this business trip!" <--- people accounting for 0.0005% of the ratings of any similarly geared cartoon.

[plastroncafe]

Then make something good and there will be less backlash.

Good things require taking risks.
Taking risks require there be chance for failure.
People who aren't willing to face failure, don't get good things.

Lather, wince, repeat.

That's true, but it's only becoming that because they humor it as such. They should stop humoring it. The little tykes will come and eat this up, like they do every generation. For about 2 or 3 seasons. And hey, that's about the time they'll throw out another horrible movie we can all make fun of that will actually try to placate "us."

"Hang on, hunnie... I need to remember to set the DVR to record the latest 'Ninja Turtles' cartoon!" <--- people accounting for 0.0005% of the ratings of any similarly geared cartoon.

You say that last bit like it's a bad thing.
Those are the folks who buy the toys that have always, and will always, pay for production.

Honestly, I don't think the onus is on Nick for this sort of stuff.
I think it's on us in the fandom to police our own.

[sdp]

What makes you think all the people complaining are adults? I've been on the internet long enough that I was a little kid complaining about stuff online when I indeed was the target audience. Now thanks to social media more of the target audience gets to complain. Kids aren't stupid and know very well how to get information or complain. These shows aren't being made for an older audience and usually this audience can't keep a toyline/show alive but that doesn't mean the negativity doesn't affect the actual product in terms of marketing.

There's no problem with manchildren complaining, it always happened. The problem became when geek culture became cool and now we have all these "geek culture" blogs and internet personalities who think they're voice matters. And they do influence the majority of "casual" fans who are the main ones who would say "my childhood is ruined" but would have never watched the real show regardless if it was what they wanted, what they want is the thing they had as a kid. These "influencers" do influence younger kids though which is a problem, so companies need marketing shills like say Black Nerd or PixelDan to promote their agenda.

It's a complicated digital world we live in now and things aren't as simple as some of you guys try to put it. With that said, this show is a textbook example of what enterprises do in panic mode to renew interest and it usually doesn't work. The show will not fail because of manchildren crying, I'm 100% for this show, I like it when franchises do crazy things but I know they don't usually last for that very reason regardless of quality.

[Andrew NDB]

What makes you think all the people complaining are adults?

Because you can click on the names of the loudest bunches on all the TMNT FB groups and... they are?

[Vegita-San]

Then make something good and there will be less backlash.

Impossible.

We are stuck in the Reboot Twighlight Zone. where no one thinks what is best for the property, but tries to put their own little spin on it in the hope it takes off.

The last series had endless horror homages and teen romance triangles that belonged more on the CW.

this one has comedy.

Who knows what the next one will be?

Eventually, I feel, a thing can only be rebooted so many times before it either is no longer the thing you love, or just rehashes so much of what has come before only in different ways. at that area of existence, what's the point?

[Andrew NDB]

I think it's on us in the fandom to police our own.

How do we do that? Have you seen the fandom? Imagine trying to, like, reason with a rabid pack of Jephaels, or cferreiras. It's sisyphean.

[plastroncafe]

How do we do that? Have you seen the fandom? Imagine trying to, like, reason with a rabid pack of Jephaels, or cferreiras.

Hold everyone to a set standard of behavior, and not tolerate people who don't maintain that standard.

And now IN B4...
I'm by no means saying that everyone has to agree what is said, but I think we can come to an agreement as to a good and productive way to say most things.

[CyberCubed]

We are stuck in the Reboot Twighlight Zone. where no one thinks what is best for the property, but tries to put their own little spin on it in the hope it takes off.


What the hell is this supposed to mean? Of course there are reboots, what should there be? They're not going to continue an older series.

You almost sound like you're mentally incapable of realizing new reboots/series happen for everything every few years.

[Andrew NDB]

What the hell is this supposed to mean? Of course there are reboots, what should there be?

Maybe that's a disconnect with a lot of these whackjobs. Maybe they (some of them, anyway) honestly think that RotTMNT is some kind of a continuation and distortion of their beloved Fred Wolf show.

[Powder]

Hold everyone to a set standard of behavior, and not tolerate people who don't maintain that standard.


Define "not tolerate".

[Vegita-San]

How do we do that? Have you seen the fandom? Imagine trying to, like, reason with a rabid pack of Jephaels, or cferreiras.

Or Fred Wolf Haters ;o)..

The fandom is what is is. there will always be people you think of as crazies. there will always be people you don't like. there will always be people you love. there will always be people looking to alter history. there will always be people looking to throw the first stone to prove they are better then the person they dislike..... there will always be people who sell out. trying to control that is an exercise in futility.

just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.

[plastroncafe]

Define "not tolerate".

Basically self moderation, and calling out people when it looks like they're going to far.

As a group we don't all get along, or see eye to eye, but as individuals we all have at least one or two folks who we trust enough to know our intentions and who can talk us down from a proverbial ledge before a situation explodes.

I think of Dan Savage when he says: Don't tell me that you're not all like that, tell them.

We should pass off fandom crap as being made by casuals, or "the crazies," because to people from outside of fandom...we're all one group.
And so we shouldn't focus on telling people from outside fandom that we're not all like that, we should tell the people making the waves that we're not all like that.

If that makes any sense.

[Powder]

I tried that for years, on Facebook, & to a certain extent, here.

It does not work. Those who are not receptive to new versions of a kids series are certainly not receptive to new lines of thought from their peers.

& mods (not here) in places such as FB groups, as an example, are usually just as bad, so it's useless. I gave up.

[plastroncafe]

I tried that for years, on Facebook, & to a certain extent, here.

It does not work. Those who are not receptive to new versions of a kids series are certainly not receptive to new lines of thought from their peers.

& mods (in FB groups, as an example) are usually just as bad, so it's useless. I gave up.

Which is fine.
We can't all defend all hills all the time.

I just think if we all made a small effort, it wouldn't seem like a Sisyphean task, and even in trying we might make the public face of our fandom a little less...berzerker rage.

[Powder]

I don't think there are enough of us who care enough to make a difference, unfortunately. Generally, being a voice of reason among that crowd leads to gang-piling or hitting a wall of ignorance, so even for those who do want to step things up in the community, it's discouraging.

[neatoman]

Imagine trying to, like, reason with a rabid pack of cferreiras.

I'd rather spend a day with Chris-Chan.

[CyberCubed]

Do people really use facebook for TMNT stuff?

It seemed to me most of the teenager fans or younger fans were on twitter and tumblr.

[Andrew NDB]

Do people really use facebook for TMNT stuff?

Thousands and thousands of people.

[CyberCubed]

I thought facebook was mostly used by middle-age people now. All the young kids and fandoms are on twitter and tumblr.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought facebook was mostly used by middle-age people now. All the young kids and fandoms are on twitter and tumblr.

Facebook and Twitter still have the broadest range of people. Tumblr seems geared for artsy/Deviantart/hipster types, easy to look at on your big iPad while you're listening to vinyl.

https://unwrapping.tumblr.com/post/93716151897/age-demographics-tumblr

Kids account for very little of Tumblr's usage.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

To be fair it's mostly people on twitter, most people here aren't posting there. The twitter TMNT fandom is pretty vicious, as is the one on tumblr.


More vicious than here? What are they, rabid animals?

[sdp]

Thousands of people use social media like Facebook for franchises that they like but they're not the same type of fandom that say the Internet 1.0 pre-social media had. Many of these are "casuals", more hardcore than the average joe but none of those would've ever joined a TMNT forum back in the day.

Kids don't really use facebook anymore, they like youtube, instagaram, snapchat. Facebook is indeed becoming more and more for old people even if i still has a large number of young blood there because it's so big it's been in decline for years now. The geeky people in fandoms mostly use Discord, I don't like it since it's meant to be more like IRC/Skype together but it's not permanent like say a forum so conversations die.

[Papenbrook]

I hope that there won't be too many Fred Wolf (OT) references/ homages.

[Andrew NDB]

Kids don't really use facebook anymore, they like youtube, instagaram, snapchat. Facebook is indeed becoming more and more for old people

Nonsense. The statistics are against you. And technically speaking kids can barely even use FB anyway... I think you have to be 13 or 14 these days to even sign up. Used to be 18. And used to be only if you're on a college campus. You can lie, of course, and a lot do.

[Coola Yagami]

Nonsense. The statistics are against you. And technically speaking kids can barely even use FB anyway... I think you have to be 13 or 14 these days to even sign up. Used to be 18. And used to be only if you're on a college campus. You can lie, of course, and a lot do.

I agree. Any youngster I know nowadays, while they do use snapchat and whatnot, they are still all over FB sending each other memes and whatnot. IDK where this weird ass rumor that FB is for old people came from, cause tons of people of all ages still use it.

[Andrew NDB]

I agree. Any youngster I know nowadays, while they do use snapchat and whatnot, they are still all over FB sending each other memes and whatnot. IDK where this weird ass rumor that FB is for old people came from, cause tons of people of all ages still use it.

Yeah, my best friend's 14 year-old son just got locked up for posting about some nasty anti-cop threats because of FB. It's still a thing. It's going to be a thing for the foreseeable future.

[Konchadunga]

Well, to address the eternal elephant in our room, what is "the franchise"? That is, what incarnation of the franchise do you deem the bit worthy of respecting? Mirage? Fred Wolf? The older live-action movies? The newer live-action movies? The most recent show? The IDW series?

That series of questions isn't trivial, but the unfortunate reality here is that there isn't a "right" answer in the sense that all of the fandom would agree. Certain approaches some people would call respectful, others would call disrespectful...or at the very least, annoying. Filling the series with pizza references or puns off of the word "shell" is arguably "respectful" in that it is keeping in mind things that have been done before in the franchise, but still there will be people who dislike those things.

In a limited sense, the most broadly consensual definition of being respectful, in that it's the most opportune way to please (or at least interest) as many people as possible (not to mention, sell as many toys as possible) is probably to draw a bunch of characters from multiple different incarnations. If they decide to clarify that is what they're doing, I can believe that.

However, calling back to old stories by other people that many audiences liked doesn't mean you're capable of writing new stories that many audiences like. As someone, I forget whom, aptly described the IDW series (at least in my opinion), "Hey; remember that?" is not clever writing. You can make people more initially interested in your new adaptation by calling back to such things, but that also sets you up to disappoint them if your writing is boring, annoying, etc. You can reach high heights by standing on the shoulders of giants, but you can also slip and fall, far and hard.

Factor in that it's been heavily implied that this show is under a mandate to be more juvenile than the last one, and I'd say that even if the writers are endeavoring to be "respectful" as I semi-defined it above, that doesn't mean they're going to reach the quality of your favorite past incarnation; let-alone surpass it.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, my best friend's 14 year-old son just got locked up for posting about some nasty anti-cop threats because of FB. It's still a thing. It's going to be a thing for the foreseeable future.

I kinda think the 'Facebook is only for old people' rumor was started by a competitor and it slowly spread and because 'if it's on the internet it must be true', it helped bring more young people to other forns of social media. It's a clever ploy because no 'cool' young person wants to use something 'for old people' but it's just not true.

Just the other day I overheard some millennials bragging to each other about who is and who is not on their friend list in terms of 'hot guys'. My workplace is an odd mix of previous and current gen of people.

[IndigoErth]

Factor in that it's been heavily implied that this show is under a mandate to be more juvenile than the last one, and I'd say that even if the writers are endeavoring to be "respectful" as I semi-defined it above, that doesn't mean they're going to reach the quality of your favorite past incarnation; let-alone surpass it.
For myself personally, it isn't really even so much a "favorite past incarnation" (I don't really have a specific one single fave at this point... there are those versions that I like more than others, but largely I just love these guys collectively), it's more just a melding of incarnations and who they've become collectively over time.

Dropping (or adding) superficial things, such as the pizza, or shell references, or giving them new enemies, or new adventures, or new hobbies/interests (or struggles) that suit them individually and make sense, new designs, and so on... Don't care. Drop it, add it, do it, whatever. The execution of it, such as these newest designs, might not be a favorite and may still have an opinion on it, but it's negligible and not really a part of the respect factor.

Respecting it to me is not screwing with the deepest parts of it; not screwing with who they are as individuals which is largely influenced by a collective melding of the franchise over the 30+ years.

Respect isn't, "Hey, look, they're gonna have lots of pizza! Do silly things! And have lots of toy opportunities!" It's not turning Leo into an asshat, or Splinter into...whatever the hell is going on there. Not erasing Hamato Yoshi as the last movies did. And so on.

But that is only my perspective and only speak for myself.

[Leonardo_thebest]

I'm wondering why some fans are trying to force other fans to be quiet.
This is one dude's interpretation of the Turtles, and the consensus is that it's terrible. Just check out the comments here (http://news.toyark.com/2018/02/16/rise-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-toys-debut-toy-fair-286026)
We just did this with Bay, and I think, the fans are being vocal because it's being forced through, diluting the brand further.

Add corners to a circle and it stops being a circle.

Same same, but different.

[CyberCubed]

Because it still hasn't even aired yet. You can't judge until at least the first few episodes air, and we see what the tone and animation of the show is like, what the plots are, etc.

It's still way too early to know how this series will turn out.

[plastroncafe]

But if you add enough corners to a square it becomes a circle again.

Every single negative comment on that page can be reduced to:
I don't like this.

Which as personal opinions go is a pretty benign one.
However, when one puts a value judgement based on their own preferences, then we start moving away from benign.

"I don't like this thing."
is different than.
"This thing is bad."

In short, "Why should their wants and needs as a fan outweigh everyone else's."

And also, "just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life."

[Andrew NDB]

It'd be one thing if this show even remotely pretended to be geared toward older audiences (I mean hell, even the "Young Adults" range) or existing fans... then hey, fair game. But it's not. It's not pretending to be with even a single fiber.

Like, should old fans of Teddy Ruxpin be upset that the new one doesn't have a cassette deck or because its eyes look wrong? No, that's dumb. It's not for you.

[plastroncafe]

It'd be one thing if this show even remotely pretended to be geared toward older audiences (I mean hell, even the "Young Adults" range) or existing fans... then hey, fair game. But it's not. It's not pretending to be with even a single fiber.

Which is what I thought about Adventure Time, Steven Universe, and Teen Titans GO!, before I started watching them and I was mistaken about all three.

Then again, I think we have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes Being Geared Towards An Older Audience.

[Leonardo_thebest]

But if you add enough corners to a square it becomes a circle again.



To infinity and beyond I suppose? :lol:

On the one side, the look and feel is ugly, the turtles have been changed simply for the sake of change, and overall everything feels cheap and goofy.
On the other side, the cast is stacked with fresh diverse talent, and we got our black April.

So sure, there are some good things inside, but they strayed too far from the path. We know from the past, there's zero chance of making most turtle fans happy, and if you do, the fanbase has an apathetic response.

I think Nick would rather poke the bear than let it sleep. Bear or, maybe baby.

Definitely babies.

In short, "Why should their wants and needs as a fan outweigh everyone else's."
And also, "just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life."

Why make change for the sake of change? And that last part is both unfair and inconsiderate, and you know it.

[plastroncafe]

On the one side, the look and feel is ugly, the turtles have been changed simply for the sake of change, and overall everything feels cheap and goofy.


What do we think a Change Not Made For The Sake Of Change looks like?

[Leonardo_thebest]

What do we think a Change Not Made For The Sake Of Change looks like?

I look better in black it slims me. If I was wearing brown the day before, I felt fat, and black looks better on me so the next day, I wear black. Everyone agrees, except for my friend Becky, who, would rather see me in polka dots. Becky Likes polka dots, but they do not look good on me, in my opinion. Becky is tired of me wearing black most of the time, even though, I wear it rather infrequently and am often complimented on my clothing.

I still like black, but, I try polka dots on Tuesday, for the sake of change. I look terrible, but Beck is happy. Becky now tries to convince me that I look great, while the rest of the office is giving me screwy looks.

I change BACK to my drab clothing the next day.

*ahem, change NOT made for the sake of change is everything in the above story that wasn't involved in polka dots.


You can defend your stance, or you can be reasonable about what falls outside the expectations for an audience, for a brand of entertainment they like.
Had the look and feel been more in line with what had come before, everybody would be on board.

Bad design is possible, and you can't force polka dots on folks who don't want them. I mean, you CAN, and Nick IS, but it won't be popular, unless some other part of it IS great. So maybe the shows writing and animation will save it, but that doesn't mean the designs were ever good, they only become familiar.

[Vegita-San]

Respecting it to me is not screwing with the deepest parts of it; not screwing with who they are as individuals which is largely influenced by a collective melding of the franchise over the 30+ years.

Respect isn't, "Hey, look, they're gonna have lots of pizza! Do silly things! And have lots of toy opportunities!" It's not turning Leo into an asshat, or Splinter into...whatever the hell is going on there. Not erasing Hamato Yoshi as the last movies did. And so on.

But that is only my perspective and only speak for myself.

I can agree with that. but, again, then nyou run into the reboot problem. where producers feel the need to change something so much so it doesn't look like it did before. and that's where problems begin.

[IndigoErth]

What do we think a Change Not Made For The Sake Of Change looks like?
Character development.

[plastroncafe]

I look better in black it slims me. If I was wearing brown the day before, I felt fat, and black looks better on me so the next day, I wear black. Everyone agrees, except for my friend Becky, would rather see me in polka dots. Becky Likes polka dots, but they do not look good on me, in my opinion. Becky is tired of me wearing black most of the time, even though, I wear it rather infrequently and am often complimented on my clothing.

I still like black, but, I try polka dots on Tuesday, for the sake of change. I look terrible, but Beck is happy. Becky now tries to convince me that I look great, while the rest of the office is giving me screwy looks.

I change BACK to my drab clothing the next day.

*ahem, change NOT made for the sake of change is everything in the above story that wasn't involved in polka dots.

You can defend your stance, or you can be reasonable about what falls outside the expectations for an audience, for a brand of entertainment they like.

Had the look and feel been more in line with what had come before, everybody would be on board.

Bad design is possible.

Bad design IS possible, but bad design isn't "I don't like this."

For instance it's the difference between.
Dude, that metaphor is stupid. And you're stupid for having written it. I wasted time reading that. Time I'll never get back. Why are you so f*cking dense?

And.

I don't know that the metaphor is really answering the question I was proposing. I want to know how one reboots a fictional property without making changes for the sake of changes.
And what you responded with was something about personal preference.
I don't think this is the 1:1 ratio you're looking for.

What if you'd put on the dots and loved them? And never would have known you loved them because you hadn't tried them?
Sure you took a chance, and that chance had the option of failure as part of the deal, but if all you ever did was run your life by committee you run the risk of never doing anything except what you've already done.

Sure, you look good in black, but someday that particular shirt is going to fade.
That particular cut or style is going to fall out of fashion. And because you've never tried anything new, you just look like your 4th grade teacher who still wore leisuresuits into the 1990s.


But I agree: Eff Becky.
She wouldn't know good taste if it fell out of a tree and hit her.

[Leonardo_thebest]

One more thing about Becky and the polka dots.

See, the thing about Becky is, she only likes the polka dots because most people don't. She even wears stripes and clashing colors with them, because Becky wants to stand out. She likes to be difficult, and go against the grain. she hates conformity.

For Becky, she knows polka dots are not popular, and they rub people the wrong way, and it's exactly for that reason that she wants polka dots on everything.


EDIT:

When is change not for the sake of change? You've set a trap. We could argue the root of the meaning of change,
or we could agree that it's a common saying that sits alongside "if it a'int broke" etc etc.
Bad design stems from people needing to fingerprint things they work on, and we KNOW that.
We know the changes made here were specifically made to differentiate this series from the last, and set it apart on the toy shelf from 30 feet away.
The silhouettes are drastically different. It has a sloppy look and feel, and incorporates pieces of Bay turtles that wee universally disparaged.

This new series has been built by a group of Beckys.

[plastroncafe]

One more thing about Becky and the polka dots.

See, the thing about Becky is, she only likes the polka dots because most people don't. She even wears stripes and clashing colors with them, because Becky wants to stand out. She likes to be difficult, and go against the grain. she hates conformity.

For Becky, she knows polka dots are not popular, and they rub people the wrong way, and it's exactly for that reason that she wants polka dots on everything.

I take it back, Becky sounds awesome.
I mean, she went out of her way to share what she believes is special to her with you.

And at the end of the day, it's just clothes.

Edit:
When is change not for the sake of change? you've set a trap? Bad design stems from people needing to fingerprint things they work on, and we KNOW that.
We know the changes made here were specifically made to differentiate this series from the last, and set it apart on the toy shelf from 30 feet away.
The silhouettes are drastically different. It has a sloppy look and feel, and incorporates pieces of Bay turtles that wee universally disparaged.

This new series has been built by a group of Beckys.

I didn't set a trap.
I asked a question because I was genuinely curious about the answer.

What I find interesting is that you couldn't just diagree with Becky, you had to come back and make sure that not only were her choices bad, because they differed with yours...but that she was also a horrible person.

[IndigoErth]

Becky sounds annoying. I'm all for being an individual and sharing with the world what makes you tick and makes you unique, but she's trying too hard. Like this damn series. :trazz: (Or sounds so far.)


Look at me! Aren't I different?! You should be impressed by my differentness!

[Leonardo_thebest]

Becky sounds annoying. I'm all for being an individual and sharing with the world what makes you tick and makes you unique, but she's trying too hard. Like this damn series. :trazz:

Yes. exactly.

Why would Raph be the leader? No real reason, other than it's a quick way refernce this series, as a talking point.

"Hey, did you see what they did to the latest TMNT? Raph is the leader now!"
"Say what Jim? No way daddy-o? Wait wasn't Donatello the leader with the Blue bandana?"

"No dude, that was...nevermind let me show you."

CLICK

Every change was driven to provoke a response, like a troll.

[plastroncafe]

Yes. exactly.

Why would Raph be the leader? No real reason, other than it's a quick way refernce this series, as a talking point.

"Hey, did you see what they did to the latest TMNT? Raph is the leader now!"
"Say what Jim? No way daddy-o? Wait wasn't Donatello the leader with the Blue bandana?"

"No dude, that was...nevermind let me show you."

CLICK

Every change was driven to provoke a response, like a troll.

Is there an incarnation where Raph hasn't chafed under Leo's authority?
Where he wanted to be leader?

Maybe...the original toon?
Any others?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Maybe...the original toon?

Raphael did outright challenge his leadership once in Turtle Trek.

[plastroncafe]

Character development.

That's not exactly a thing this franchise has ever had an overabundance of, so I hardly expect that to start now.

And I say that with love.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Is there an incarnation where Raph hasn't chafed under Leo's authority?
Where he wanted to be leader?

Maybe...the original toon?
Any others?

Right, or maybe, it's closer to the time that Megan Fox opined to Jimmy Kimmel that Raph was the Leader?

Like I said, it is clearly driven by toy-etic thinking, nothing more, and that's fine, but if that's what you're doing, then the look and feel are VERY important, and so far, it's been a huge misfire.

[plastroncafe]

Right, or maybe, it's closer to the time that Megan Fox opined to Jimmy Kimmel that Raph was the Leader?

Like I said, it is clearly driven by toy-etic thinking, nothing more, and that's fine, but if that's what you're doing, then the look and feel are VERY important, and so far, it's been a huge misfire.

I think Parner's In Kryme has her beat by at least a decade.
(t-u-r-t-l-e power)

"What if this time Leo just decided to step back and watch Raph make a fool of himself for a while. Maybe heckle him the way he's been heckling Leo for all these years?"

Nah dude, can't do that.
We're not allowed to explore new avenues, that's just changing something for the sake of changing it.

We have to stick to this script, and then write new stories....without them actually being new.

It could flop spectacularly, but I still wouldn't see this as a Bad Design.

[Leonardo_thebest]

We're not looking at it from the same angle.
I don't see this as creative license, I see this as creative licensing, and I definitely don't think they're thinking in those terms. Of course, I'd happily be proven wrong.

The design is still ugly, can't reframe.
I do respect the fact that you like it, but that's opinion territory, similar to the ones that hate it.

I'm sure over time, it will become THE defacto version of the turtles, and eventually, Mirage will be painted over and forgotten, while 2012 will soon stand as the new OG.
It is the way of all things. they are not ours anymore.

[IndigoErth]

"What if this time Leo just decided to step back and watch Raph make a fool of himself for a while. Maybe heckle him the way he's been heckling Leo for all these years?"
From the right angle it would be amusing.

And a lost opportunity for 2003 when Leo was away with the Ancient One. Surely someone had to step up while Leo was away and could have been told stories, probably via Mikey, about Raph trying to fill his shoes while he was gone. Commence heckling. I'd just rather see said heckling done in a style that would happen in a show more like that one.

[plastroncafe]

We're not looking at it from the same angle.
I don't see this as creative license, I see this as creative licensing, and I definitely don't think they're thinking in those terms. Of course, I'd happily be proven wrong.

The design is still ugly, can't reframe.
I do respect the fact that you like it, but that's opinion territory, similar to the ones that hate it.

I'm sure over time, it will become THE defacto version of the turtles, and eventually, Mirage will be painted over and forgotten, while 2012 will soon stand as the new OG.
It is the way of all things. they are not ours anymore.

I think we are looking at this from the same angle, I'm just way further afield than you are. Every cartoon, movie, and comic that was a tie into a cartoon or a movie is/has been/will always be creative licensing.

Changes for the sake of marketing - which...is really what we should be using instead of "changes for the sake of change. Because that's what people really seem to mean when they lob that. - is one of the few constants this franchise has. I'm used to it by now. It doesn't ruffle my feathers.

I wouldn't respect that I like these character designs, because...well, a) respect me for being a person, not my opinions on things, and b) it's more accurate to say I don't hate these designs, than to say that I like them.

I'm defending the show because I like new things, and we don't get new good things without sometimes enduring bad new things.

The voice cast looks great. The voice director is top notch. If the stories are good, and the performances match, then I'll warm up to the designs.
Also...there's a good chance the design models will evolve with the production should it go on.

That's what happened with Steven Universe and Avatar the Last Airbender.
Heck, even the Simpsons changed style over time.

I'm not placing a value judgement on the designs. Whether or not I like them doesn't make them good or bad. I'd imagine that's something best decided by an animator. Bad Design would make it harder for them to do their jobs.

But yes, they're not ours. They never really were.

[Leonardo_thebest]

So, you don't like the designs, but you want new stuff, so you're suffering the design in the hopes that keeps the brand alive so they make even more new stuff.

Maybe that's not exactly right, but it sounds like what these threads have been about. I guess that's the same thinking as Support Hillary because otherwise, you get Trump, right?

What about, nope, it's not good, do it again? I'm a fan of that. Let's have that.
And I'm just learning about the magic weapons.

See, I get that you want them to try new things because you like new stuff, but we know Bay turtles hurt the brand in a big way. any property that has a massive misfire has difficulty course correcting. If the follow up to a low rated show like 2012, and a terrible film like out of the Shadows is a mess, the brand will sputter and stahl out.

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

[Andrew NDB]

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

Slim to no chance of that. What's one cheap kids TMNT cartoon going to do in the grand scheme of things besides possibly hook a new generation of Little Timmys?

[IndigoErth]

Create a generation of little Timmys (and Tammys) that'll show up here in 10 to 15 years, damned and determined and eager to debate that Raph is leader, Leo is an asshat, Splinter is lazy, and the TMNT are about a magic underworld, because the one show they're nostalgic for told them so? :tlol:




Already not fond of it when Leo is only someone's fave because he wears blue, has swords, or is leader... Can't wait for those who claim him as their fave because of this "trickster" junk and other nonsense... :roll: Ugh, get out. Anyone who is drawn to that depiction may sadly not be as into him elsewhere.

[shihe]

Ugh.. I get people are upset. But we JUST got off a pretty darn good retelling of the story. I'm genuinly curious to see how all these changes, for the sake of change or not, will play out.


There are a few layers of lore that IMO should be respectos more than others.

1.) They're teenagers, mutants, ninjas, and Turtles.
Anything here changes, and it's no longer what we know and love. (Although being "teenagers" doesn't really change much for me. They could be adults, or maybe Even kids, and it would still be ok). Also, of they look far removed from looking like the og designs (looking at you, Bay Turtles) then it's a major red flag from me.

2.) The Shredder/Splinter/Tang Sheng backstory. This one is essential. The rivalry is one of the best things about TMNT, in my opinion. Anytime this doesn't exist is like taking away half my motivation to watch.

3.) The Colors. By now, we're far too used to bandana Colors associated with a specific turtle to change them.

4.) The weapons. This one stirs some inner conflict, but not a lot for me personally. Ninjas use a variety of weapons. And although we've come to associate them with specific ones, they still have wielded other weapons, ever since Michaelangelo in the OT, or the whole gang in that particular season of 2012. I don't have a problem with weapons changing as long as they throw us a bone at some point and give them their usual weapons.

5.) Character races. Not a problem in the slightest.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Even kids, and it would still be ok.

The only thing they could do then would be take down neighbourhood bullies at street level.

[sdp]

It was obvious Nick wasnt going to cancel one TMNT show to just make a new one immediately that was basically the same. If they wanted more of that they wouldve just greenlit another season.

Nick wanted a new show and so did playmates so we got this new show because the 2012 show just wasnt cutting it for them even if you may think that 2012 was great. Its a desperate try to get some more money off the property and itll fail for that very reason, people dont like these radical changes.

Im personally a fan of them doing all these things as Ive stated countless of times here but its abig gamble and no surprise that people hate it.

Nonsense. The statistics are against you. And technically speaking kids can barely even use FB anyway... I think you have to be 13 or 14 these days to even sign up. Used to be 18. And used to be only if you're on a college campus. You can lie, of course, and a lot do.

Except they arent, i cant really post data since im on mobile but emarketer just released how much of the audience facebook is likely to lose this year. I mean read my post, yes many kids use facebook but its no growing its in decline and will continue to do so. Its like looking at myspace s numbers in 2008 and say that Myspace is doing great when it was already declining. The myspace reference in Iron Man is so outdated that most kids dont even get it anymore.

[plastroncafe]

Already not fond of it when Leo is only someone's fave because he wears blue, has swords, or is leader... Can't wait for those who claim him as their fave because of this "trickster" junk and other nonsense... :roll: Ugh, get out. Anyone who is drawn to that depiction may sadly not be as into him elsewhere.

Which it's pretty much how I feel about every Incarnation of Mike that isn't Mirage. So they won't be alone.

They can share a table with the OT Quippy Raph fans too.

So, you don't like the designs, but you want new stuff, so you're the design in the hopes that keeps the brand alive so they make even more new stuff.

Not a good summary at all, no.

Maybe that's not exactly right, but it sounds like what these threads have been about. I guess that's the same thinking as Support Hillary because otherwise, you get Trump, right?

No.

What about, nope, it's not good, do it again? I'm a fan of that. Let's have that.
And I'm just learning about the magic weapons.

Really? That news has been or for months.
You're doing that values judgement thing again.
You not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.


See, I get that you want them to try new things because you like new stuff, but we know Bay turtles hurt the brand in a big way. any property that has a massive misfire has difficulty course correcting. If the follow up to a low rated show like 2012, and a terrible film like out of the Shadows is a mess, the brand will sputter and stahl out.

That is the risk, yes.
I think it's worth it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's no surpise the toys don't sell much at the end of a series, when most children have the main characters.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Not a good summary at all, no.

ok, help me out, I tried :).


Really? That news has been or for months.

Are you calling me a casual? :lol:
Yes, I missed the news.


You're doing that values judgement thing again.
You not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.

That's not what I said, I said I'm just learning about it, and while the news has been out for a while, Now, instead of their training winning the day, it's a hamfisted MacGuffin, which may be blended into the story, but reeks of bulletproof shells and magic blood.

[plastroncafe]

Both of which are Canon compliant with Mirage.
There's a short in which Leonardo gets hit with a bullet that ricochets off is shell, and the river storyline shows the turtles as having mutagenic or "magic" blood.

[Leonardo_thebest]

A bullet could ricochet off a wall too, that does not mean the wall is bulletproof.
Mutagenic blood is not magic blood.

[plastroncafe]

A bullet could ricochet off a wall too, that does not mean the wall is bulletproof.
Mutagenic blood is not magic blood.

There's still a basis in canon for both. That this basis is not to your liking doesn't negate the fact that it exists.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[Leonardo_thebest]

There's still a basis in canon for both. That this basis is not to your liking doesn't negate the fact that it exists.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

Ricochet does not imply bulletproof, and mutagenic is not magic.
You're stretching it to fit your own narrative, counselor.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ht5a8bJN1qbvaudo7_250.gif

[plastroncafe]

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

Ricochet does not imply bulletproof, and mutagenic is not magic.
You're stretching it to fit your own narrative, counselor.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ht5a8bJN1qbvaudo7_250.gif

Which time?
Do you mean the animation glitches?
Or the fact that they're mostly wearing non-red colors?

Because I'd say the switch from all red to colored is precedent enough.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Which time?
Do you mean the animation glitches?
Or the fact that they're mostly wearing non-red colors?

Because I'd say the switch from all red to colored is precedent enough.

Har. har. har.

[Candy Kappa]

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

A future show could use the original toydesign mask designation where Mikey was supposed to be purple masked and Donnie had orange.

[plastroncafe]

A future show could use the original toydesign mask designation where Mikey was supposed to be purple masked and Donnie had orange.

What do we think the knee-jerk to that would look like?
On a scale from Three Toes to Nostrils.

[shredder orokusaki]

Why do you think out of the shadows failed.? Because i didnt fight the turtles. They had my enemy that alien Krang and my stupid henchmen fighting the turtles. What you expected? To be a succes without me? This cant happen. It is not suprise that it failed. They know that this show will fail much more if it dont have me that why i will be the main villian. They dont want tohave another failure . TO be a succes i must be in most episodes like i was in 1987series and have me as main villian in most episodes and not like the 2003 and 2012 where i wasnt in so many episodes compared to 1987 series.

[Papenbrook]

I'm ashamed that Mr. Suriano was harassed so heavily that he had to tweet a response.

I want to wait and see what happens. Until then, I'm not going to judge his decisions.

[Rooish]

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Although April looks like a pretty cool change. Love how nerdy she looks.

[Xiewin]

Leo always came off to me as the most consistent turtle of the bunch while the others seem to keep getting shafted in a one dimensional sense.

[Leonardo_thebest]

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.


Quoted for truth.

[Rooish]

Leo always came off to me as the most consistent turtle of the bunch while the others seem to keep getting shafted in a one dimensional sense.

Well... to this version's credit, they are rounding out the characters... by making them completely different from all other incarnations?

[Papenbrook]

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Although April looks like a pretty cool change. Love how nerdy she looks.

Still, a person shouldn't harass/ berate the creators for following/ building their personal vision for the TMNT franchise, nor should they harass/ berate the individuals who happen to enjoy said vision.

Even if a person were to dislike the current direction of the franchise, that shouldn't give them the right to constantly insult the creator's work through blatant disrespect. It just isn't necessary.

Why follow the franchise anymore if people aren't allowed to freely explore their own version of the TMNT? What would be the point?

In short, what someone may find disrespectful may be seen as respectful, or even creative, to other people.

[Vegita-San]

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.


Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

But yeah, even if you're not interested in this new show, as a fan of the FRANCHISE you have every right to complain about it if it's not to your liking.

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Yet, say any or all of those things, and the crazed fans of the internet think you are 'trolling'. despite being a fan of the franchise for 25 years and liking MOST of what they did with it. now all of a sudden you get tossed out if you don't like one iteration? SMH...

The Internet 2.0, as it was most recently called, is way too much of a millennial headache to put up with sometimes...It's all over the place in emotions.

[CyberCubed]

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.

[Leonardo_thebest]

In short, what someone may find disrespectful may be seen as respectful.

This is utter BS. Respect can be defined. It's not open to interpretation.
If you want to argue the turtles can be reinterpreted, fine; but let's not start suggesting words themselves are open to interpretation. You're being absurd.

[ProphetofGanja]

Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

Well, there's a difference between saying something that's merely stupid and saying something misogynistic; what Ciro said was definitely the latter AND the former.

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.

Eh, I think you're a bit biased on that point, Cubed. But I guess it's all a matter of opinion. I know that I couldn't get into the 2012 show's style so I just didn't bother with it; I didn't see much point in hate-watching it just to complain about it. I have better things to do with my time.

[Papenbrook]

This is utter BS. Respect can be defined. It's not open to interpretation.
If you want to argue the turtles can be reinterpreted, fine; but let's not start suggesting words themselves are open to interpretation. You're being absurd.

What do you mean?

How am I absurd? I merely stated that every single TMNT fan, whether they be a viewer, reader or creator, has/ have differing views of respect.

[Sumac]

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.
Actually it did.

Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.

I do not want to say that other TMNT incarnations were perfect, but all of the above things were indeed present in 2k12 and they ultimately pushed me away from the show.

What do you mean?

How am I absurd? I merely stated that every single fan, whether they be a viewer, reader or creator, has/ have differing views of respect, at least for this franchise.
For most people, respect means "treat source material with modicum of attention and understanding", not just take stuff, gut it and add some ******** in a place of what was before, calling it "new creative vision".

[ProphetofGanja]

For most people, respect means "treat source material with modicum of attention and understanding", not just take stuff, gut it and add some ******** in a place of what was before, calling it "new creative vision".

True, but Papenbrook isn't wrong in that because people value different things, what some people view as "disrespecting" a franchise others may view as a fresh new take on it, an injection of creativity.

I don't care that all of these differences are present in the new show. I'll check out the first few episodes to see if I like the vibe, and if I don't I'll just stop watching. I do think there's a lot of potential with the added mystical elements though.

Also, does anybody else think the first few episodes will be premiere back-to-back as part of a multi-part story? Since it's a quarter hour show maybe the first four episodes will air on the same night. I hope so anyways

[Rooish]

Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

But yeah, even if you're not interested in this new show, as a fan of the FRANCHISE you have every right to complain about it if it's not to your liking.

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Yet, say any or all of those things, and the crazed fans of the internet think you are 'trolling'. despite being a fan of the franchise for 25 years and liking MOST of what they did with it. now all of a sudden you get tossed out if you don't like one iteration? SMH...

The Internet 2.0, as it was most recently called, is way too much of a millennial headache to put up with sometimes...It's all over the place in emotions.

Like totally. Especially we should have a right to complain here, on a ninja turtles discussion board.

Obviously no one should get death threats, those are illegal anyway? But they should be able to receive criticism if they choose to make their version of the franchise the same in name only.

[IndigoErth]

True, but Papenbrook isn't wrong in that because people value different things, what some people view as "disrespecting" a franchise others may view as a fresh new take on it, an injection of creativity.
Although in the context they used, to respect something would be to be faithful to the history of a thing, or at the very least the most fundamental parts. Having respect or being faithful kind of conflicts in word use when talking fresh new takes on something...


Unless their idea of being respectful to it is just keeping the most basic, superficial aspects intact... such as pizza, mask colors, and being Turtles.

Two of which could acceptably be dropped or gone retro, the third... well they did try to veer off into different lanes in terms of species but stayed on the same turtle highway.



Maybe someday a show creator will share my perspective of new being more story-based and continuation, allowing them to continue to thrive and have new adventures, rather than going back to the beginning all over again for the billionth time but changing who they are as people in order to be different... (I realize what we know of them now isn't exactly the same as they were in Mirage, but I prefer that it has at least been a very slow 30+ year evolution of who they have become as characters over time. Not this abrupt ridiculous and unnecessary nonsense for the sake of change.)

[CyberCubed]

Actually it did.
Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.


The love triangle got annoying in some eps, but it was ultimately just a running gag. As for dumb Mike? It's a problem in most incarnations, the 2k3 series made Mikey overly annoying after he won the Battle Nexus in Season 2 for the rest of the series.

Overused horror elements? Sure, but they didn't bother me too much. As for bad writing, every show has both its good and bad episodes, so this is the norm. In terms of the main plots they were handled well. As for ugly designs, what are you referring to here?

[Vegita-San]

Actually it did.

Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.

I do not want to say that other TMNT incarnations were perfect, but all of the above things were indeed present in 2k12 and they ultimately pushed me away from the show.


That's just our resident troll trolling again ;o)...pay him no heed.

But yeah. all that stuff above , AND adding in super long breaks that where sometimes months apart didn't exactly make me have a love fest with this series.

I think this is the only series so far where some shows I've barely watched once, and some i had to force myself to finish.

This new series, so far, does not exactly SCREAM respect. It screams of 'This series has b een rebooted so many damn times, How can we make it feel different and look new?' the first iteration of this idea was Platinum Dune turtles. they apparently KNEW we'd hate the designs, but went ahead with them anyway because they looked different. and we all knew how respectful THAT version was.

[sdp]

Spicing things up is always good, taking a new approach is usually good as well. This new show is neither of those, it's one of those desperate attempts at trying to make a brand appealing again with style over substance. It's natural people are not going to like it.

Who knows how the show will turn out; Batman Beyond didn't look good on paper either but it's easily one of the coolest takes on it. However if we go by history most of these radical for the sake of doing something new and unique like this don't work since fans don't like it, they steered too far from what makes the franchise and whatnot. I tend to like these weird alternate takes like Gilligan's Island in outer space, but more of a novelty.

It's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about this even if they're "casual" fans, even big nerds like Black Nerd and Pixel Dan seem to try very hard to be positive about it and they are always positive about everything.

[newfan]

The love triangle got annoying in some eps, but it was ultimately just a running gag. As for dumb Mike? It's a problem in most incarnations, the 2k3 series made Mikey overly annoying after he won the Battle Nexus in Season 2 for the rest of the series.

Overused horror elements? Sure, but they didn't bother me too much. As for bad writing, every show has both its good and bad episodes, so this is the norm. In terms of the main plots they were handled well. As for ugly designs, what are you referring to here?

That's just it, depends what bothers you. Things like the horror elements being used a lot were there but it didn't ruin it for me either. The new show will have it's mystical theme which will bother some and not others. Things like designs are matter of opinion.

[Vegita-San]

It's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about this even if they're "casual" fans, even big nerds like Black Nerd and Pixel Dan seem to try very hard to be positive about it and they are always positive about everything.

don't they get paid too, or at least incentivized too? :)

[LeotheLateBloomer]

That's just our resident troll trolling again ;o)...pay him no heed.

But yeah. all that stuff above , AND adding in super long breaks that where sometimes months apart didn't exactly make me have a love fest with this series.

I think this is the only series so far where some shows I've barely watched once, and some i had to force myself to finish.

This new series, so far, does not exactly SCREAM respect. It screams of 'This series has b een rebooted so many damn times, How can we make it feel different and look new?' the first iteration of this idea was Platinum Dune turtles. they apparently KNEW we'd hate the designs, but went ahead with them anyway because they looked different. and we all knew how respectful THAT version was.

Vegita-San finally calls out Cubed for hypocrisy.:tlol:

But yeah, weren't there at least a few members that used to be excited for Bay and Platinum Dunes to work on a TMNT film before the trailer reveal?

[Vegita-San]

Vegita-San finally calls out Cubed for hypocrisy.:tlol:

But yeah, weren't there at least a few members that used to be excited for Bay and Platinum Dunes to touch upon on TMNT film?

I usually try NOT to engage with idiots, as no one wins.. but every once in a while, it's deserved :). but, what do I know. I'm clueless. ;o).

I think the only ones who where excited about PD's where plants. or very VERY optimistic people.

[Sumac]

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.
The love triangle got annoying in some eps, but it was ultimately just a running gag. As for dumb Mike? It's a problem in most incarnations, the 2k3 series made Mikey overly annoying after he won the Battle Nexus in Season 2 for the rest of the series.

Overused horror elements? Sure, but they didn't bother me too much. As for bad writing, every show has both its good and bad episodes, so this is the norm. In terms of the main plots they were handled well. As for ugly designs, what are you referring to here?
:roll:

We might discuss whether those elements were good or not, but denying that they were present is rather meaningless.

Who knows how the show will turn out; Batman Beyond didn't look good on paper either but it's easily one of the coolest takes on it.
Batman Beyond had very competent show runners behind it.

As an example of another good "radical" reboot, I can think of Beast Wars.

[Vegita-San]

:roll:

We might discuss whether those elements were good or not, but denying that they were present is rather meaningless.



How quickly one changes what little mind they have when they get called out on something ;o)...


Yeah. Batman beyond worked, because it had people who knew what the hell they where doing, and respected the franchise. the only things they really changed was the time the series took place in. everything else was pretty damn recognizable as batman staple.

Turtles is kind of a different beast than batman.

Now you have Playmates with more control. and their only concern is selling toys. and that's never good for a series, plot wise.

[Sumac]

Yeah. Batman beyond worked, because it had people who knew what the hell they where doing, and respected the franchise. the only things they really changed was the time the series took place in. everything else was pretty damn recognizable as batman staple.
Hilariously enough, Batman Beyond arose from the concept of Batman being teenager and going to school, proposed by some higher ups at WB. Team that was working on Batman TAS saw it, was horrified and reworked it into what we have today.
It's kind of proves my idea that there is no such thing as bad concepts, only bad executions.

Later, WB attempted to make Batman schoolboy again (look Gotham High) and they eventually made this concept real with that series about female DC characters.

[sdp]

We haven't seen the show or even a trailer either to know it's outright "trash". People have the right to be critical since it does seem like not the best direction but it also doesn't deserve to be treated like crap since it hasn't even aired.

don't they get paid too, or at least incentivized too? :)

Black Nerd has to be paid whenever he hosts stuff for companies like the latest reveal of Rise or the commentary at E3 or whatever but besides getting exclusives and free swag I doubt they get paid. Youtubers/bloggers are literally some of the cheapest marketing that has become available to companies since it's easy to get fans to shill for them.

They do it because they're living the dream, they get to talk about stuff they like and receive inside info/merchandise because of it. They were hardly ever critical even before they became their marketing shills, just now they have to be even less critical. I followed Pixel Dan and Black Nerd way before they were famous so while I don't enjoy their content much more anymore since it's a caricature of what they used to do, I can't say they're only shilling for money, they're just big fanboys and that's cool, more power to them.

[Coola Yagami]

Make em too different and they might as well be whole new characters. It almost feels like a failed premise of something else and someone said 'wait, replace the characters with the ninja turtles. Who cares if they don't use magic, they'll watch it anyway cause of pizza and cowabunga'.

[Vegita-San]

Make em too different and they might as well be whole new characters. It almost feels like a failed premise of something else and someone said 'wait, replace the characters with the ninja turtles. Who cares if they don't use magic, they'll watch it anyway cause of pizza and cowabunga'.

Yep.

g bless the B:TAS team for saving batman beyond :).

[sdp]

Totally valid points. I'm still excited for it, I didn't want another "safe/traditional" interpretation right after 2012 finishing, this should be a nice break before we return to norm eventually.

[Vegita-San]

when there are fart jokes in the first 4 minutes....I await your apology. :)

[Papenbrook]

when there are fart jokes in the first 4 minutes....I await your apology. :)

Can you specify your statement, please?

[shredder orokusaki]

when there are fart jokes in the first 4 minutes....I await your apology. :)
They are mutant animals... FREAKS! That why they do such terrible things!

[Sumac]

Can you specify your statement, please?
Fart jokes in the first few minutes.

[plastroncafe]

Can you specify your statement, please?

I don't think Vegita enjoyed the toilet humor found in the first episode of the 2012 cartoon, and so projecting that lack-of-enjoyment on to this new as-yet-unseen incarnation.

While I'm not exactly a fan of fart jokes myself, I recognize that kids think bodily functions are funny. Not only that, but our protagonists live in a sewer, so some form of scatological references are to be expected.

[Papenbrook]

Fart jokes in the first few minutes.

I don't think Vegita enjoyed the toilet humor found in the first episode of the 2012 cartoon, and so projecting that lack-of-enjoyment on to this new as-yet-unseen incarnation.

While I'm not exactly a fan of fart jokes myself, I recognize that kids think bodily functions are funny. Not only that, but our protagonists live in a sewer, so some form of scatological references are to be expected.


Oh. I misunderstood his statement.

My apologies.

[sdp]

I recognize that kids think bodily functions are funny.

I hated fart jokes as a kid and always found them annoying, I think most people think similarly when they were kids. For some reason it's adults from a certain generation that like fart jokes and seem to think that kids like fart jokes.

I see no evidence whatsoever that kids like fart jokes besides movies/shows constantly putting fart jokes.

[ProphetofGanja]

I hated fart jokes as a kid and always found them annoying, I think most people think similarly when they were kids. For some reason it's adults from a certain generation that like fart jokes and seem to think that kids like fart jokes.

I see no evidence whatsoever that kids like fart jokes besides movies/shows constantly putting fart jokes.

I work at a preschool and I can assure you, kids like fart jokes

Anything involving bodily humor, really. Mainly simply because they know it's taboo and they're not supposed to talk about it. Their sense of humor is not very advanced yet.

[plastroncafe]

I hated fart jokes as a kid and always found them annoying, I think most people think similarly when they were kids. For some reason it's adults from a certain generation that like fart jokes and seem to think that kids like fart jokes.

I see no evidence whatsoever that kids like fart jokes besides movies/shows constantly putting fart jokes.

Are you only working with your sample size of one?
Do you have daily exposure to small children?

Because I have 10 years experience teaching animal science to kids, and let me tell you the vast majority of little kids I have dealt with want to know how the animals poop, pee, and whether or not they fart.

[sdp]

I taught kids for 6 years and I went to many different schools since I moved a lot. I just don't see kids naturally loving fart jokes, will they laugh at one? sure but to have so many in shows and cartoons, I think that's just adults thinking kids like them. Or those who enjoy that humor just shove it everywhere they can, I know plenty of adults like fart jokes, hell Howard Stern had a superhero named fart man.

[IndigoErth]

Make em too different and they might as well be whole new characters. It almost feels like a failed premise of something else and someone said 'wait, replace the characters with the ninja turtles. Who cares if they don't use magic, they'll watch it anyway cause of pizza and cowabunga'.
Hm... maybe Turtles and the Mysticons accidentally got their pilot scripts mixed up. lol


Side note - Now that we've seen the designs and whatnot... Given Nick's love for show crossovers period, and the whole "magic" concept, what are the odds of a late in the series TMNT/Myticons crossover. (Still a little annoyed that they clearly stole some of TMNT's formula for that one and premiered it just as 2012 was ending... then screwed with the guys like this.)

[sdp]

Oh god I hope not, I just googled that and I don't want it anywhere near the TMNT. I've said it before but they did mention "counting the turtles multiverse you never know who may show up". So I guess you can use that quote to give yourself hope for your crossover.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Given Nick's love for show crossovers period, and the whole "magic" concept, what are the odds of a late in the series TMNT/Myticons crossover.

Only after that Pony crossover in season 2 :roll: then we can have that three way crossover with all 3 cartoons late into the show's run.

[IndigoErth]

Fine, fine... lol

Oh god I hope not, I just googled that and I don't want it anywhere near the TMNT. I've said it before but they did mention "counting the turtles multiverse you never know who may show up". So I guess you can use that quote to give yourself hope for your crossover.
No, don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want that show crossing over with them, but given how Nick runs things these days and the art style and the magic thing that would mesh well enough... one doth worries about this.



Much prefer that 2003 gets to visit instead. And helps whip 2018 into proper Turtles shape.

[Coola Yagami]

I'd rather the tmnt crossover with someone other than themselves and usagi.

[IndigoErth]

Hm, but who... Would Nick stick with their own properties? :ohwell: (Outside of Usagi being a longtime friend pre-Nick and tapped for history/nostalgia.)

I wouldn't mind seeing the new friendship with DC expanding a little further, maybe in this way, although at the same time adding superheros to TMNT's world isn't that interesting to me. (Justice Force are tolerable at best.)

[Shark_Blade]

I'd rather the tmnt crossover with someone other than themselves and usagi.

How about a crossover with prostitutes? Kinda like Batman did in Year One (where Selina Kyle was also one of them). They can be spies all over the city.

The turtles are always in the dark streets and alleys, so it's not far off. Unless we're gonna strictly treat this like "for kiddie series" then, nope. Not gonna happen.

[IndigoErth]

Well, it's Nick, I think that would be sorta pushing it too far, yeah.


Though it would be kind of funny if there was a side character added who is sometimes seen on the streets and the Turtles have come to know (and somethings gets info from her (or him!) on things she/he has seen around town) and the older viewers kind of eventually grasp the fact that she/he is more than likely a hooker, but it's vague and goes over kid's heads. Some parents would no doubt flip out though.

[Metalwolf]

How about a crossover with prostitutes? Kinda like Batman did in Year One (where Selina Kyle was also one of them). They can be spies all over the city.

The turtles are always in the dark streets and alleys, so it's not far off. Unless we're gonna strictly treat this like "for kiddie series" then, nope. Not gonna happen.Maybe if they ever air a Turtles series on Nick At Nite (do they still have these kind of grown-up time slots?) Then you could add more of these 'adult' themes.

Though you might have kids staying up trying to sneak-watch the 'forbidden' series. :lol:

[Electric]

Not even involved in the fandom much anymore but this show honestly doesn’t seem respectful at all. If they just wanted to make a goofier TMNt, fine. Give them magic weapons and rougher designs.

But to change one of core characters so drastically, to switch out the weapons that define them, that’s not really ok to me.

The original nick series did something new and different by making the turtles individualized, by updating two of the weapons in a way that allows them to still be the same. It all reinforces who the characters are. New and fresh.

This new show is a perfect example of crossing the line between new and fresh to unnecessary and overkill. They’re trying to be MORE different, they’re trying to go FURTHER than what’s done before. And it’s not even the TMNT now.


I hope this show flops. Not because I don’t like it. But I hope it sets the example that changes are only good to a certain point. Hoping for a reboot down the line that learns from mistakes.

[shihe]

Crossover concerns?

I wouldn't worry about it.
Nick had a huge opportunity to do a crossover between TMNT (12) and Kung Fu Panda. Animation was similar enough.
Did that ever happen? No. (Huge missed opportunity IMO)

I'm far from a pony fan, but if it's just one episode, it won't hurt.
It's like that crossover between Steven Universe and Uncle Grandpa. I hate UG, but the crossover was pretty entertaining.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Crossover concerns?

I wouldn't worry about it.
Nick had a huge opportunity to do a crossover between TMNT (12) and Kung Fu Panda. Animation was similar enough.
Did that ever happen? No. (Huge missed opportunity IMO)

I could see it happening, but the Usagi crossover has similar themes (set in ancient asia) and has more of a history with tmnt so it was much higher on the priority list of the showrunners. Also loved the Nick crossovers with the 80s turtles, much more than Turtles Forever.

I'm far from a pony fan, but if it's just one episode, it won't hurt.
It's like that crossover between Steven Universe and Uncle Grandpa. I hate UG, but the crossover was pretty entertaining.

With Rise, I think its better to step away from crossovers with other tmnt shows/Usagi and do some other cartoons. I would personally love My Little Pony, but I'm not sure how likely that would be, or how well recieved it would be for that matter.

[shredder orokusaki]

I will eat Stockman Brain after puting it in jar on hot water to boil! This will be the first show that i will do it. In the 2003 i never killed him i just kept him as a brain in a jar until that IDIOT Chaplin put him in a robot and made him a threat for me again! But this time.... I will not keep his brain forever. This time i will eat it !

[IndigoErth]

https://i.imgur.com/xbKgPqF.gif

You do that.





I will take a TMNT/MLP crossover ONLY if the TMNT end up in the Pony's world (not the Equestria Girls route) for reaction sake.

That way they can be like, "I know we're kinda weird, but tiny talking horses... What." :tlol: Wouldn't mind seeing how odd that is to them, since they're a lot closer to human on the anthro scale and come from a world full of humans. lol

[FredWolfLeonardo]

will take a TMNT/MLP crossover ONLY if the TMNT end up in the Pony's world (not the Equestria Girls route) for reaction sake.

That way they can be like, "I know we're kinda weird, but tiny talking horses... What." :tlol: Wouldn't mind seeing how odd that is to them, since they're a lot closer to human on the anthro scale and live in world full of humans. lol

Hey, I'm just taking notes from sdp and trying to get meme magic to work :lol:

Anyways, I think one of the main appeal of both franshises is that the main characters are talking animals who go on adventures, so I'd have the mane Ponies rather than the Spin-Off Equestria Girls in a crossover (plus the Ponies do alot more fighting against monsters and such, like the tmnt, while the Girls just go to school for the most part).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

updating two of the weapons

That was awsome. Since the turtles don't use pistols and rifles a lot, you can at least have all of them using sharp weapons when fighting such strong opponensts (like Shredder with armour, or the Kraang inside robots)