Was Viacom the only company offering to buy TMNT?

[neatoman]

Were there any other companies offering to buy TMNT before Viacom bought it? The closest instance to that happening I know of is when Fred Wolf tried to get the rights through a lawsuit.

[KillCrites]

God I'm so glad Fred Wolf didn't get the rights to TMNT.

[neatoman]

God I'm so glad Fred Wolf didn't get the rights to TMNT.

I seriously doubt that was ever a close call. The lawsuit largely happened due to sour relationships, rather than a legitimately broken agreement, and the end credits of each episode clarified that Mirage Studios owned the characters. It's pretty obvious Fred Wolf wouldn't ever get the rights.

[KillCrites]

I seriously doubt that was ever a close call. The lawsuit largely happened due to sour relationships, rather than a legitimately broken agreement, and the end credits of each episode clarified that Mirage Studios owned the characters. It's pretty obvious Fred Wolf wouldn't ever get the rights.

Oh yeah, I know that. But still glad that it never happened though.

[AquaParade]

God I'm so glad Fred Wolf didn't get the rights to TMNT.

I know. Imagine that. It's actually really hard, because I really only associate them with the original TMNT show. I guess, all things considered, we got off pretty lucky.

I think I may have heard something about Peter and Kevin almost selling to Marvel in the 90's. Am I crazy?

[Andrew NDB]

It's not like Peter or Gary Richardson was actively shopping TMNT around, ever. Viacom just approached them with an offer and Peter said, "Huh. That's a good number. Done."

[oldmanwinters]

It's not like Peter or Gary Richardson was actively shopping TMNT around, ever. Viacom just approached them with an offer and Peter said, "Huh. That's a good number. Done."

I confess that after the sale happened, I started to suspect the "25th Anniversary Tour" (reportedly cost $1 million) was designed to put the best shine on the franchise for potential buyers (as there didn't seem to be a whole lot of "what's next?" plans for the franchise as the cartoon and toyline were ending and an Imagi movie sequel seemed dead in the water). I seem to remember that even Murph thought about the idea on one of this old websites, though I doubt he ever bothered to get confirmation on that from Laird.

[CyberCubed]

PL did say another company gave them a bid but he turned them down because it was too low. I wonder who it was.

Considering the sale happened back in 2009, I don't think it was Disney. Back then they had just recently bought Marvel and wouldn't buy Star Wars for another few years. TMNT wouldn't have been a blip on their radar back in 2009. The only other alternative is WB/DC/Time Warner....but I dunno, I don't think WB/DC would be too interested in TMNT enough to purchase it either.

So it was probably just Nick and some minor companies, and Nick offered $60 million and was a big enough company to do major relaunches so it fit.

[Powder]

I know Dark Horse was looking to do some TMNT stuff around the time of the buyout, but I wouldn't expect them to try & actually purchase the TMNT on a whole.

[Andrew NDB]

I know Dark Horse was looking to do some TMNT stuff around the time of the buyout, but I wouldn't expect them to try & actually purchase the TMNT on a whole.

I do know there is/was "bad blood" between Dark Horse and Mirage... but I've never been able to figure out about what, exactly.

[Roseangelo]

I confess that after the sale happened, I started to suspect the "25th Anniversary Tour" (reportedly cost $1 million) was designed to put the best shine on the franchise for potential buyers (as there didn't seem to be a whole lot of "what's next?" plans for the franchise as the cartoon and toyline were ending and an Imagi movie sequel seemed dead in the water). I seem to remember that even Murph thought about the idea on one of this old websites, though I doubt he ever bothered to get confirmation on that from Laird.

Oh, I absolutely agree with this. I am quite sure there were Viacom execs in the room when they gave us the Turtles Forever screening during Comic-Con that year.

I do know there is/was "bad blood" between Dark Horse and Mirage... but I've never been able to figure out about what, exactly.

I never picked up that it was bad blood, particularly. I think Dark Horse was just interested in doing some TMNT comics, but Peter being Peter, he wasn't gonna let the kids out of the house to go play down the street. It would have been the same response for any other publisher.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, I absolutely agree with this. I am quite sure there were Viacom execs in the room when they gave us the Turtles Forever screening during Comic-Con that year.

Was there? Those snakes in the grass... I should have known...

[ABrown]

It's not like Peter or Gary Richardson was actively shopping TMNT around, ever. Viacom just approached them with an offer and Peter said, "Huh. That's a good number. Done."

Yup, unless there's something on the internet to contradict this:

"this sale which was completed on Monday of this week, came out of the blue. I was not actively pursuing selling the property, though Gary (CEO of Mirage) and Fred (my attorney) knew that it was something I might be interested in should the right buyer with the right deal come my way. And then Viacom/MTVN/Nickelodeon showed interest and we started talking." - https://web.archive.org/web/20091026145019/http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/musings-about-sale.html

[CyberCubed]

If Dark Horse got the license instead of IDW I wonder what the comic landscape would look like right now. Would they have done their own universe?

[pferreira]

God I'm so glad Fred Wolf didn't get the rights to TMNT.Well mate they probably could have done a better job than Haim Saban ended up doing.

[Andrew NDB]

If Dark Horse got the license instead of IDW I wonder what the comic landscape would look like right now. Would they have done their own universe?

Interesting to ponder. Probably yes. Would it be one with the level of Fred Wolfisms as the IDW universe? I don't know. I tend to think no. They might be more apt to put some guys behind it and grow it like a "Hellboy" sort of thing.

[CyberCubed]

IDW as a company is known for making their comics mass market friendly. Same reason they do Transformers, Gi-Joe, My little Pony, Back to the Future, Ducktales, and just recently got the Sonic the Hedgehog license. So naturally they wanted their TMNT to have the most mass market appeal which meant colored bandanas and the characters people would know from their childhood cartoons.

It's also why Viacom decided to partner with them over Dark Horse to begin with, obviously they want the most profit from their license. IDW TMNT has been going on since 2011 and will probably last at least 10 years till 2021, so I think they knew what they were doing.

[Andrew NDB]

Post-sale Dark Horse only seemed interested in doing Mirage reprint stuff and not really anything else. As far as I'm aware, other than IDW, BOOM was the only studio that approached Nick about doing new comics.

[TurtleWA]

So it was probably just Nick and some minor companies, and Nick offered $60 million and was a big enough company to do major relaunches so it fit.

Hmm, so it was only $60 mill, looking back that seems like a low number. I would not have sold for any less than $100.

[Andrew NDB]

What I'm curious is how much Peter paid out to Kevin to buy Kevin's half of the rights back in 2000. If it's significantly less than 30 million (which would be half of what Nick paid Peter for 100% of them in 2009), I bet Kevin is kicking himself now.

[TurtleWA]

Probably nothing near $60. Also how do taxes work with deals like these? Hopefully Peter negotiated that Nick pay any taxes but then I’m thinking Peter would still have some kind of tax to pay. I wonder what the actual net amount was for Peter after lawyer fees and anything else involved. Makes it seem like an even smaller amount.

[CyberCubed]

Hmm, so it was only $60 mill, looking back that seems like a low number. I would not have sold for any less than $100.

TMNT is really not that big. $60 million for the franchise by the end of the 2009 decade was plenty good for it.

[TurtleWA]

TMNT is really not that big. $60 million for the franchise by the end of the 2009 decade was plenty good for it.

What was the box office profits for just the 2007 movie? Google says $95.6 million. Not even counting toys, cartoons or comics. I might be missing something but I’ll stick with my no less than 100 for me to sell. :trazz:

[CyberCubed]

TMNT 2007 did make 95 mil worldwide, idmb lists it too:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453556/

But much less in the U.S only.

[DK2]

Considering the TMNT franchise under Paramount/Nick has generated the Nick 2012 'toon, two live action films and now another cartoon during their reign, I'd think the $60 mil must be accurate value as a franchise. Of course lots of merchandise from these media releases, its given Paramount a modest franchise. But I think it only works in cycles. Every 8-10 years for new generation of kids to fall in love with them yet not even 2 yrs after the last cartoon, we have Rise of the TMNT coming. Not sure this is wise of Paramount. But also it seems to be for an even younger kid crowd. Its sad the films only went to two. The 2nd movie performed at barely even half the gross of the first film. TMNT 2007 film was only a modest box office performance too with over $54 mil coming from North America out of its $95+ mil worldwide take.
Andrew, I too am curious to what Mirage/Peter gave Kevin in the 2000 handover of ownership. I remember Kevin saying he was still getting a royalty payment until the complete buyout from Mirage in 2007 or 2008. Yeah wonder if he's kicking himself for that a little?

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew, I too am curious to what Mirage/Peter gave Kevin in the 2000 handover of ownership. I remember Kevin saying he was still getting a royalty payment until the complete buyout from Mirage in 2007 or 2008. Yeah wonder if he's kicking himself for that a little?

I feel like it was way less than half of what Peter got from Nick. Maybe 10 million. Maybe less. I'll never know, and it's none of my business.

[TurtleWA]

But I think it only works in cycles. Every 8-10 years for new generation of kids to fall in love with them yet not even 2 yrs after the last cartoon, we have Rise of the TMNT coming.

I’m not sure I understand the 8-10 year thing? Are you saying wait 8-10 years between cartoons?

[CyberCubed]

The turnover for kids cartoons is 5 years. That's why a lot of shows, just like the Nick 2012 show did, had a 5 year run.

It's mainly a reason you don't see too many long lasting kids shows anymore, (bar stuff like Spongebob that has been going on since like 1999), because they end shows after a few years just to make another one. DC has gone through like 5 Batman cartoon reboots in just the last 15 years alone.

[Powder]

Re: Dark Horse, I think if they had gotten to do something with TMNT it'd be sorta like the Infestation mini. Or well, that's something modern which has a DH feel to it, to me.

[CyberCubed]

Dark Horse probably intended TMNT to remain in black and white and "indie" whereas IDW made it into a mass market colored action comic, so obviously Nick knew they would get more profit from IDW's approach than Dark Horse, so they went with that.

I guess there's always the sneaking suspicion of "what might have been" but for all we know Dark Horse TMNT might be over by now, just reprints of old Mirage stuff.

[Mr. Orange]

Well mate they probably could have done a better job than Haim Saban ended up doing.

Haha, I doubt Saban would’ve gotten TMNT. If it had been a year later, possibly but Saban Brands didn’t reform until 2010. They had a lot of properties on their radar so TMNT might’ve been one. They did reacquire The Next Mutation.

Post-sale Dark Horse only seemed interested in doing Mirage reprint stuff and not really anything else. As far as I'm aware, other than IDW, BOOM was the only studio that approached Nick about doing new comics.

That’s interesting about BOOM. Never knew they were interested, but it makes sense. They’re doing good things with the Power Rangers license right now.

It will be interesting to see what happens moving forward with the IDW rumblings. Hasbro works closely with IDW, BOOM doing PR which will be partly owned by Disney once the Fox deal goes through. Hasbro is doing the PR toys now and there’s a possibility of them buying PR as a whole. Could TMNT and PR end up under the same comic company?

[Andrew NDB]

Haha, I doubt Saban would’ve gotten TMNT. If it had been a year later, possibly but Saban Brands didn’t reform until 2010. They had a lot of properties on their radar so TMNT might’ve been one. They did reacquire The Next Mutation.

Saban -- at no point -- ever had enough money to buy TMNT.

[oldmanwinters]

Saban -- at no point -- ever had enough money to buy TMNT.

This Saban might...
http://i.imgur.com/UinJyUZh.jpg (https://imgur.com/UinJyUZ)

[Mr. Orange]

Saban -- at no point -- ever had enough money to buy TMNT.

I’m assuming you’re being funny meaning there’s no price high enough for them to sell it to Saban.

[Andrew NDB]

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jg8hn8sa_1jcycnj_hn4v0i.png

I’m assuming you’re being funny meaning there’s no price high enough for them to sell it to Saban.

No, I mean literally. Look at their super cheap-o shows, what they put out. Even their "Power Rangers" movie was made with investors' money.

I can't think of any time they had an extra 63 million to throw at something.

[Mr. Orange]

I’m not going to make a long argument, and I hope you’re not letting something personal feelings towards Saban, Power Rangers, or TNM influence, but in 2010 when they formed Saban Brands they were actively looking for properties to acquire. They bought Power Rangers back from Disney for just less then 100 million.

[pferreira]

Haha, I doubt Saban would’ve gotten TMNT. If it had been a year later, possibly but Saban Brands didn’t reform until 2010. They had a lot of properties on their radar so TMNT might’ve been one. They did reacquire The Next Mutation.That's what I mean. Saban was put in control of TMNT in the late 90s and look what happened. Sure Peter and Kevin still owned the whole franchise but Saban was in charge of producing the show. Saying Fred Wolf could have done worse if they had got the rights is a moot point when you consider how The Next Mutation came out.

[neatoman]

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jg8hn8sa_1jcycnj_hn4v0i.png



No, I mean literally. Look at their super cheap-o shows, what they put out. Even their "Power Rangers" movie was made with investors' money.

I can't think of any time they had an extra 63 million to throw at something.

Which Power Rangers movie? The one from the 90's or the one last year?

[MikeandRaph87]

I’m not going to make a long argument, and I hope you’re not letting something personal feelings towards Saban, Power Rangers, or TNM influence, but in 2010 when they formed Saban Brands they were actively looking for properties to acquire. They bought Power Rangers back from Disney for just less then 100 million.

How much dod Saban sell it to Disney for in 2002?

[Mr. Orange]

Disney bought Fox Family for $3 billion in 2001. Power Rangers was just a part of it.