TMNT Universe RIP

[AlZarkovski]

From August 2018 Solicitations (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/23/bebop-rocksteady-rick-morty-vs-dungeons-dragons-house-amok-idw-august-2018-solicitations/):

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Universe #25

Bullet points:
Fantastic final issue.

:(:(:(

[oldmanwinters]

The book had a good run, even though I never cared for the extra dollar on the price vs. the normal book. Hopefully there will still be a good number of mini-series.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Sad to see this one go, but I'm betting it was the higher price that helped kill it off. :( hopefully the mini-series will make up for it.

[DrSpengler]

It was a good title content-wise, but the "experimental" back-up strips often didn't justify the $5 price tag.

Going back to a string of miniseries might be the best bet, if it restores those companion storylines to a $4 price point.

[ChosenOne]

A sad, though not entirely unexpected, announcement. We've had some pretty good stories come out of Universe, though I much prefer the mini-series format to be honest. And at least it gets to go out with a bang if the solicitation is anything to go by.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, that probably shouldn't be surprise.

But, that sounds like a good story to end the Universe line on. And they do seem to have squeezed in some things that otherwise could not have been done. Unless they had to keep making mini series, and they can only do that once per year.

[MikeandRaph87]

Kevin told us at the NC Comic Con during the panel it would end during the summer and they would go back to constant minis,but asked us not to report it until the solicits came out.

[funatic]

Aw what a bummer! Never took issue with a single issue of Universe, sad to see it go! It felt like the old days of collecting Tales in tandem with the ongoing. I hope we still get consistent minis in its place. Doesn’t B&R Hit the Road come out in August? Does that make 8 TOITLE BOOKS dropping in one month??

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Those back-up stories, man. Nobody wanted to pay an extra $ for them... except for the Leatherhead one, they were bad... :tsad:

RIP, Universe. I'm not surprised to see you go, but I'll still miss you.

[ChosenOne]

What if this is a sorta, kinda fake-out and the September solicits bring us something called TMNT Multiverse, a mini-series that features a crossover with some other iteration(s) of the franchise? :lol: A man can dream!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What if this is a sorta, kinda fake-out and the September solicits bring us something called TMNT Multiverse, a mini-series that features a crossover with some other iteration(s) of the franchise? :lol: A man can dream!

I'd hate that. Great title, terrible idea. No Fred Wolf crossover, no Nick crossover, no Rise crossover, no Archie crossover.

[neatoman]

Not that shocking to be honest. Still, 25 issues is nothing to scoff at. It is longer than many other books, including some TMNT books.

[spookycookies]

I'm sad to see it go and I hope that we do get a companion book every month, IDW's TMNT just can't fit in one issue a month at all. If we go back to random mini's that's cool I guess, we don't really need the extra $1 and back up.

[ChosenOne]

I'd hate that. Great title, terrible idea. No Fred Wolf crossover, no Nick crossover, no Rise crossover, no Archie crossover.

Apparently it's all the rage these days, what with the concept behind the new Dragon Ball anime that's coming out soon and everything, so why not a Marvel's Secret Wars: TMNT Edition sort of thing? Just for kicks, not really canon, of course.

[spookycookies]

Apparently it's all the rage these days, what with the concept behind the new Dragon Ball anime that's coming out soon and everything, so why not a Marvel's Secret Wars: TMNT Edition sort of thing? Just for kicks, not really canon, of course.

If it’s not canon then what’s even the point.

[ChosenOne]

If it’s not canon then what’s even the point.

It's a possibility, is what I'm saying. Guess my original (dumb) joke is snowballing. Something can be not canon and still fit into the continuity just fine.

And the point? Well, the Batman crossovers weren't canon and still sold like hotcakes. This is a business, after all.

[DrSpengler]

I'd dig a multiverse book that just told stories within those different TMNT universe, not necessarily one where the IDW TMNT team-up with a different incarnation in every issue. I admit that's a pretty niche concept, though, and wouldn't be a big seller.

[ChosenOne]

I'd dig a multiverse book that just told stories within those different TMNT universe, not necessarily one where the IDW TMNT team-up with a different incarnation in every issue. I admit that's a pretty niche concept, though, and wouldn't be a big seller.

Not a different one every issue, no. I was thinking more along the lines of all of them at once and their little villainsies too.

"TMNT Secret Wars", basically, or a beefed-up version of Turtles Forever if you will.

[Nortock Diab]

If it’s not canon then what’s even the point.

Well, as Alan Moore said "This is an imaginary story... aren't they all?".

If the book is enjoyable, do we really need it to be canon?

I'd dig a multiverse book that just told stories within those different TMNT universe, not necessarily one where the IDW TMNT team-up with a different incarnation in every issue. I admit that's a pretty niche concept, though, and wouldn't be a big seller.

I would love that too!
Or let's make it directly a Mirage Tales vol.3 instead :tgrin:

[CyberCubed]

Man I was following the declining sales in the sales thread, but I didn't think Universe would be canceled so soon.

I guess sales really do matter. The main ongoing has only been hovering around 10,000 or so sales for the last couple of issues too, I hope this isn't a warning sign. I'd like IDW TMNT to continue after issue 100 if possible...

[ChosenOne]

Man I was following the declining sales in the sales thread, but I didn't think Universe would be canceled so soon.

I guess sales really do matter. The main ongoing has only been hovering around 10,000 or so sales for the last couple of issues too, I hope this isn't a warning sign. I'd like IDW TMNT to continue after issue 100 if possible...

I imagine the main (and now only) ongoing would have to decline a lot more to be at risk of cancellation. In the 6,000-7,000 range, perhaps? No way it won't make it at least to #100, and that might help revitalize sales figures for a time.

At the very least, Universe is going out on its own terms and after completing a two-year run, which is a nice little milestone.

[CyberCubed]

The Nick animated comics were only selling around 5,000 copies each at the time they ended too, although they were going to end anyway when the main cartoon ended.

[ChosenOne]

At some point, if sales numbers keep falling, the team working on the main ongoing would have to be told "Look, guys, wrap it up, this isn't working for us anymore" and have time to come up with a suitable ending to the run. At least I hope so.

What I'm wondering now is what that point would be. 8,000? Somewhere in the 6,000-7,000 range like Universe was pushing?

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder what would happen if the main IDW book did get cancelled. Would IDW have a Plan B?

[MikeandRaph87]

Not a different one every issue, no. I was thinking more along the lines of all of them at once and their little villainsies too.

"TMNT Secret Wars", basically, or a beefed-up version of Turtles Forever if you will.

Too many Turtle sets. What about IDW Turtles with allies and enemies of different iterations. Casey Jones from 1990 and 1993 films, Punk Frogs form the '87 cartoon, Man Ray from Archie, Silver Sentry from the 2003 cartoon,Ace Duck from the Playmates line, Nobody from Mirage sent to help the IDW Turtles.

Krang from 1987 cartoon, Armaggon form Archie, Rat King from 1987 cartoon, Leatherhead from 1987 cartoon, Slash from Archie, Dogpound from 2012 cartoon, Agent Bishop from 2003 cartoon, Baxter Stockman from Mirage with IDW's Shredder. Forced into conflict in a battle world of Kevin Eastman(subbing for Beyonder)'s creation.

A bit off topic, but I always wondered what characters would be involved in a DC version.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder what would happen if the main IDW book did get cancelled. Would IDW have a Plan B?

As long as they still have the license from Viacom/Nick, they could put out mini's still I suppose. It just wouldn't be a monthly comic anymore.

[MikeandRaph87]

At some point, if sales numbers keep falling, the team working on the main ongoing would have to be told "Look, guys, wrap it up, this isn't working for us anymore" and have time to come up with a suitable ending to the run. At least I hope so.

What I'm wondering now is what that point would be. 8,000? Somewhere in the 6,000-7,000 range like Universe was pushing?

While I was aware of the pending cancellation I wondered if it was just sales as a factor,but plot reasons for the change.

[ChosenOne]

Too many Turtle sets. What about IDW Turtles with allies and enemies of different iterations. Casey Jones from 1990 and 1993 films, Punk Frogs form the '87 cartoon, Man Ray from Archie, Silver Sentry from the 2003 cartoon,Ace Duck from the Playmates line, Nobody from Mirage sent to help the IDW Turtles.

Krang from 1987 cartoon, Armaggon form Archie, Rat King from 1987 cartoon, Leatherhead from 1987 cartoon, Slash from Archie, Dogpound from 2012 cartoon, Agent Bishop from 2003 cartoon, Baxter Stockman from Mirage with IDW's Shredder. Forced into conflict in a battle world of Kevin Eastman(subbing for Beyonder)'s creation.

You're only making it sound more appealing! :tgrin:

A bit off topic, but I always wondered what characters would be involved in a DC version.

DC has the potential to feature the most chaotic, confusing version of that concept ever attempted by any work of fiction.

[ChosenOne]

While I was aware of the pending cancellation I wondered if it was just sales as a factor,but plot reasons for the change.

The crew probably saw it coming for a long while too, and they've done such a good job of bookending the run that we'll be left to wonder about that forever unless a more in-depth statement (as opposed to a single line in a solicit) is released. Normally I'd say the need to tell more stories outside the limited scope of the main ongoing precludes that possibility, but who knows, really?

[MikeandRaph87]

You're only making it sound more appealing! :tgrin:



DC has the potential to feature the most chaotic, confusing version of that concept ever attempted by any work of fiction.

It needs to be different enough from Marvel's original event so its not a copycat,but it can work well. To add to it,Kevin was looking through character designs of the various versions and picking out what he liked best. Tom Waltz walks in and ask Kevin what he is doing only to reply, "watching a multi-dimensional Smash Up that he set up". Come on IDW, please read this concept!

[neatoman]

I wonder what would happen if the main IDW book did get cancelled. Would IDW have a Plan B?

IDW's "Plan B" for would probably look similar to how they treat many of their other licenses. One or two minis per year, then a new ongoing once the sales are up.

[ChosenOne]

It needs to be different enough from Marvel's original event so its not a copycat,but it can work well. To add to it,Kevin was looking through character designs of the various versions and picking out what he liked best. Tom Waltz walks in and ask Kevin what he is doing only to reply, "watching a multi-dimensional Smash Up that he set up". Come on IDW, please read this concept!

Two words: Battle Nexus! 8)

[Utrommaniac]

With that idea in mind, I've been thinking for a while that IDW Ch'rell working with 87 Krang would end up pretty funny.
"See Saki, he knows the meaning of loyalty!"
"Fine, but I'm keeping the nerve gas from the last one in case things go awry."

[CyberCubed]

IDW's "Plan B" for would probably look similar to how they treat many of their other licenses. One or two minis per year, then a new ongoing once the sales are up.

Isn't that what they do with Ghostbusters?

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, "TMNT: Multiverse," with ongoing stories within for Mirage, Archie, and... maybe a third slot for a revolving door of different universes. Fred Wolf for a couple of issues, Platinum Dunes for a couple (like, something subversive), 2K3 for a couple, etc..

[neatoman]

Isn't that what they do with Ghostbusters?

Yup, pretty much.

Yeah, "TMNT: Multiverse," with ongoing stories within for Mirage, Archie, and... maybe a third slot for a revolving door of different universes. Fred Wolf for a couple of issues, Platinum Dunes for a couple (like, something subversive), 2K3 for a couple, etc..

Subverting PD like how? Revealing that the police only got chummy with the turtles, because they just wanted to make a giant pot of turtle soup?

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, "TMNT: Multiverse," with ongoing stories within for Mirage, Archie, and... maybe a third slot for a revolving door of different universes. Fred Wolf for a couple of issues, Platinum Dunes for a couple (like, something subversive), 2K3 for a couple, etc..

Pretty much if the 30th Anniversary Special could be an ongoing series. Personally, my major interest in those revolving multiverse stories would require IDW to reunite creative teams from the various incarnations. Let Murphy and Allan (or Mitchroney!) do the Archie stories. Let Lawson, Murphy, Dooney, Talbot, Brown, or Lavigne do the Mirage stories. If you're going to hit the cartoons, get show writers (Wise or Reaves for Fred Wolf, Isenberg or Johnson for 4Kids) and find artists who can capture the style of the animation...

Again, super niche and it'd probably be a pain and a half to coordinate and edit, but so long as we're fantasizing here...

[neatoman]

"The secondary book is dead, long live the secondary book!"

There will be a secondary book for the foreseeable future-- got some exciting stuff lined up!

[oldmanwinters]

Pretty much if the 30th Anniversary Special could be an ongoing series. Personally, my major interest in those revolving multiverse stories would require IDW to reunite creative teams from the various incarnations. Let Murphy and Allan (or Mitchroney!) do the Archie stories. Let Lawson, Murphy, Dooney, Talbot, Brown, or Lavigne do the Mirage stories. If you're going to hit the cartoons, get show writers (Wise or Reaves for Fred Wolf, Isenberg or Johnson for 4Kids) and find artists who can capture the style of the animation...

Again, super niche and it'd probably be a pain and a half to coordinate and edit, but so long as we're fantasizing here...

Sounds like a plan to me!

[CyberCubed]

I wonder what they can do besides more usual mini's, I mean most of Universes issues were essentially mini's themselves even if some were only 1 or 2 issue stories.

I'd prefer we get more stuff in IDW continuity, something like Batman crossovers is one thing, but if we're going to have a secondary book I want it to flesh out the universe and cover characters and plots they have no time for in the main ongoing. Which is what Universe and all the mini's do in the first place, they let us see Karai in Japan, more with Utroms/Triceratons, Bishop's first attack with the EPF, etc.

As I said I really think Null needs a whole mini event to herself. Her plotline has literally just been there in the background for like...4 years or whatever, and it moves at a snails pace. Just have the Mutanimals or some of the Turtles go try and stop Null/Zodi and the alien invasion (most likely by Maligna) like in Archie.

[ChosenOne]

As I said I really think Null needs a whole mini event to herself. Her plotline has literally just been there in the background for like...4 years or whatever, and it moves at a snails pace. Just have the Mutanimals or some of the Turtles go try and stop Null/Zodi and the alien invasion (most likely by Maligna) like in Archie.

That's par for the course with most IDW TMNT villains. I'm down for that idea of yours, though!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If IDW is going to do another ongoing book, and it's not Universe, then it has to be something different, not just Universe 2.0... which means it's probably not in the main IDW continuity.

Something in the vein of the 30th Anniversary, or a rotating lineup of different incarnations, seems possible.

I'd rather have Universe. :tgrumble:

[CyberCubed]

I don't think they'll do other Turtle universes, the 30th anniversary is one thing but there's no reason to continue that. Mirage is basically not likely unless Jim Lawson or Dan Berger are contracted to work for IDW, and Image is already getting 3 new issues by Frank/Gary so it won't get more on top of that.

Archie will only happen if Murphy decided to do The Forever War, but not a regular series.

Then comics based on the cartoons is probably unlikely, I mean we already got a 50+ issue run based on the Nick cartoon, and Rise of the TMNT is probably getting its own ongoing comic anyway. I mean some issues set in the 2k3 universe would be cool but not anything to get that excited for.

[Andrew NDB]

and Rise of the TMNT is probably getting its own ongoing comic anyway.

Pretty sure Bobby announced that already.

Just curious, but how well did the 30th anniversary special sell?

[TurtleWA]

If it had to end, 25 is a good stopping place. Better than 24 or 26. I wonder what the odds are that TMNT ongoing doesn’t make it to issue 101? I’m sure another ongoing will eventually take its place. Just like the cartoons. Have a successful run and then reboot on somewhat of a high note.

[spookycookies]

If IDW is going to do another ongoing book, and it's not Universe, then it has to be something different, not just Universe 2.0... which means it's probably not in the main IDW continuity.

Something in the vein of the 30th Anniversary, or a rotating lineup of different incarnations, seems possible.

I'd rather have Universe. :tgrumble:

I'm pretty sure it'll just be the same content that we would have got in universe but packaged as different miniseries. When IDW publishes new material I would like it to be about their established universe for the most part. I love THESE Turtles so much that it would be a real shame for their page count to bow to Mirage/Wolf TMNT stories that would just be shallow nostalgia cash-ins.

We need more minis like SHOTC, Turtles in Time & Mutanimals. We need a book that spends more time with each turtle individually while also fostering side characters who need more screen time. It's a shame Universe didn't get a Raph & Casey story. The Turtles bumping into their alternate incarnations was a novel idea but why would we need to keep coming back to that? Some of the neatest parts of IDW's TMNT is when it pays homage to the past series, maybe it should stick to that instead of just rolling out the red bandanna carpet.

IDW's TMNT has almost always had a supporting book to hold the "bigness" of it's universe. Yes the current format of this concept failed to sell but that doesn't mean that the idea is bad just the way it was presented. Now we go back to $4 a month minis just as we have been all along.

[MikeandRaph87]

I'm pretty sure it'll just be the same content that we would have got in universe but packaged as different miniseries. When IDW publishes new material I would like it to be about their established universe for the most part. I love THESE Turtles so much that it would be a real shame for their page count to bow to Mirage/Wolf TMNT stories that would just be shallow nostalgia cash-ins.

We need more minis like SHOTC, Turtles in Time & Mutanimals. We need a book that spends more time with each turtle individually while also fostering side characters who need more screen time. It's a shame Universe didn't get a Raph & Casey story. The Turtles bumping into their alternate incarnations was a novel idea but why would we need to keep coming back to that? Some of the neatest parts of IDW's TMNT is when it pays homage to the past series, maybe it should stick to that instead of just rolling out the red bandanna carpet.

IDW's TMNT has almost always had a supporting book to hold the "bigness" of it's universe. Yes the current format of this concept failed to sell but that doesn't mean that the idea is bad just the way it was presented. Now we go back to $4 a month minis just as we have been all along.

What about a micro-series that focuses on each member of the Pantheon leading up the arc that brigs us up to #100? That would fill it up right there and be the same number the previous two sets have been.

[Utrommaniac]

That comment is the opposite of the "Turtles are guest stars in their own series" complaint that was floating around a few months ago :lol: . But more coherent in its argument

[ChosenOne]

(...) rolling out the red bandanna carpet.

TFW your first instinct is to go for the upvote button but then realize this isn't Reddit.

[spookycookies]

If it had to end, 25 is a good stopping place. Better than 24 or 26. I wonder what the odds are that TMNT ongoing doesn’t make it to issue 101? I’m sure another ongoing will eventually take its place. Just like the cartoons. Have a successful run and then reboot on somewhat of a high note.

I think if they have to renumber after the pantheon story is over and start a whole new set of stories with the current turtles that would be great. After 30 plus years I’m getting tired of having to see the turtles start from scratch and meet April, Shredder and Leatherhead again. It takes so long to get over the origin hump and into the fresh story and I can’t see a way for a new TMNT to start without having to unpack each character for a year plus.

[ChosenOne]

I think if they have to renumber after the pantheon story is over and start a whole new set of stories with the current turtles that would be great. After 30 plus years I’m getting tired of having to see the turtles start from scratch and meet April, Shredder and Leatherhead again. It takes so long to get over the origin hump and into the fresh story and I can’t see a way for a new TMNT to start without having to unpack each character for a year plus.

Someone should make a montage of all the times April has fainted upon meeting the Turtles.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, most of IDW's run spent a lot of time doing the basic meetings of every major TMNT character and villain. Which of course had to be done, but it's a lot of set-up work. Even just now we only JUST had the Triceraton invasion story that every TMNT universe has, Leatherhead is still in the early stages of his development, Rat King is still doing his thing, and Ch'rell just got unleashed, etc.

Most of the first 50 issues especially was the set-up of every major TMNT villain, Shredder, Krang, Karai, Baxter, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun, Rat King, various mutants, etc.

[TurtleWA]

I think if they have to renumber after the pantheon story is over and start a whole new set of stories with the current turtles that would be great. After 30 plus years I’m getting tired of having to see the turtles start from scratch and meet April, Shredder and Leatherhead again. It takes so long to get over the origin hump and into the fresh story and I can’t see a way for a new TMNT to start without having to unpack each character for a year plus.

Yeah it will be interesting to see what happens.

[funatic]

It might be cool if they continue to roll out mini series weekly for a month like they have with Bebop and Rocksteady. It's fun to have the stories be that fresh and not spread out over months, while the ongoing is still filling that steady niche. Two or three weekly minis a year would be awesome albeit expensive for those months.

[ChosenOne]

Yeah, most of IDW's run spent a lot of time doing the basic meetings of every major TMNT character and villain. Which of course had to be done, but it's a lot of set-up work. Even just now we only JUST had the Triceraton invasion story that every TMNT universe has, Leatherhead is still in the early stages of his development, Rat King is still doing his thing, and Ch'rell just got unleashed, etc.

Most of the first 50 issues especially was the set-up of every major TMNT villain, Shredder, Krang, Karai, Baxter, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun, Rat King, various mutants, etc.

Y'know, seeing all the major beats and villains listed like that, thinking about the sheer scope that this franchise has to offer, it's a damn shame that TMNT is so underappreciated and thought of as kiddie fare by the general public. Shredder alone should be up there with the greatest of comic book villains like Doctor Doom, Magneto, Lex Luthor and the Joker. TMNT can be street-level ninja action, space opera, freaky magic, alternate dimension shenanigans, or even a time traveling and/or globe-trotting adventure all in the space of a few issues without feeling out of place. How many other comic books can boast that innate variety? And yet it's still stuck in relative obscurity and struggling sales when other, far more poorly written stories, are met with much greater acclaim.

I guess I just don't get this world sometimes.

[BartAllen]

Honestly? I'm not that bothered by this situation. The main story was always fairly good, but those follow-ups left a lot to be desired. Anyway, moving towards a more streamlined, less expensive, miniseries would be a far better option in my opinion.

I'd dig a multiverse book that just told stories within those different TMNT universe, not necessarily one where the IDW TMNT team-up with a different incarnation in every issue. I admit that's a pretty niche concept, though, and wouldn't be a big seller.

I don't know if I necessarily agree. If they did a bunch of six issue mini-stories featuring a different iteration of the turtles each time, that could be interesting. It's just a matter of getting the right creative team on the book each time. I mean, a 'What-if' style series similar to the old Marvel books could be really cool.

Also, not everyone is as interested in continuity as we are. I know plenty of casuals/normies that want to read comics but don't want to be bogged down by continuity-heavy books.

[AquaParade]

To me, this book didn't seem like a great product. You're not going to have a ton of fans interested in the side-characters of this universe, and it's one of the most expensive book on the stands due to extra content that doesn't feel vital or exciting (aside from the Eastman/Sienkiewicz collaboration).

I'm glad it's gone, because it has essentially made way for Urban Legends and other exciting prospects.

[CyberCubed]

That's not true at all, the majority of Universe issues have been great or good as well as pushed the main plot forward:

- Issues 1-4 was a great opening arc with Bishop/EPF and introducing Zodi, along with Baxter starting his alliance with the Turtles. This was basically as important as any main series arc in the ongoing.

- Issue 5 was a decent issue but I liked it because it brought Leatherhead back and had him meet Old Hob the first time

- Issue 6 was about Wyrm which was a fun filler issue, nothing wrong with it. Wyrm also had a great design in IDW.

- Issue 7-8 brought back Metalhead with his own AI. It wasn't exactly the direction I would have taken with Metalhead, especially since we haven't see him again since he flew off into the air, but he'll probably turn up down the line eventually.

- Issue 9-10 was the Toad Baron and I thought it was excellent. This was our first proper screentime for Toad Baron and his Alice in Wonderland type set-up with the art was great.

- Issue 11 was a boring issue, just introduced Dreadmon. Nothing much to say about it.

- Issues 12-15 showed us Karai in Japan, Koya going insane, Ocho joining her group, and Karai going after a mystic sword and planning her comeback to NY. We haven't seen Karai in the ongoing at all since issue 50 so this was important

- Issues 16-17 was the Triceraton backstory issues, I could take those or leave them.

- Issue 18 was the weakest issue because the comedy didn't quite work for me.

- Issues 19-20 were great, Raph/Alopex going back to Null industries and coming across that new snake mutant

- Issues 21-22 were also great, we got the aftermath of the Triceratons and them meeting the Utroms and trying to form a peace and alliance with the two.


Out of all the Universe issues we got so far, only two of them were boring, the Triceraton backstory issues were meh, and the rest have all been great and pushed the plot forward.

[AquaParade]

That's not true at all, the majority of Universe issues have been great or good as well as pushed the main plot forward:

- Issues 1-4 was a great opening arc with Bishop/EPF and introducing Zodi, along with Baxter starting his alliance with the Turtles. This was basically as important as any main series arc in the ongoing.

- Issue 5 was a decent issue but I liked it because it brought Leatherhead back and had him meet Old Hob the first time

- Issue 6 was about Wyrm which was a fun filler issue, nothing wrong with it. Wyrm also had a great design in IDW.

- Issue 7-8 brought back Metalhead with his own AI. It wasn't exactly the direction I would have taken with Metalhead, especially since we haven't see him again since he flew off into the air, but he'll probably turn up down the line eventually.

- Issue 9-10 was the Toad Baron and I thought it was excellent. This was our first proper screentime for Toad Baron and his Alice in Wonderland type set-up with the art was great.

- Issue 11 was a boring issue, just introduced Dreadmon. Nothing much to say about it.

- Issues 12-15 showed us Karai in Japan, Koya going insane, Ocho joining her group, and Karai going after a mystic sword and planning her comeback to NY. We haven't seen Karai in the ongoing at all since issue 50 so this was important

- Issues 16-17 was the Triceraton backstory issues, I could take those or leave them.

- Issue 18 was the weakest issue because the comedy didn't quite work for me.

- Issues 19-20 were great, Raph/Alopex going back to Null industries and coming across that new snake mutant

- Issues 21-22 were also great, we got the aftermath of the Triceratons and them meeting the Utroms and trying to form a peace and alliance with the two.


Out of all the Universe issues we got so far, only two of them were boring, the Triceraton backstory issues were meh, and the rest have all been great and pushed the plot forward.

I don't think the fact that you liked it invalidates my previous statement. Not a lot of fan interest in side characters of this universe, expensive despite lackluster backups.

Glad you enjoyed it though. Hopefully they'll come out with something soon that will please us both.

[Andrew NDB]

Are the Triceratons still mutant triceratopses in the books?

[neatoman]

Are the Triceratons still mutant triceratopses in the books?

Yes, also clones.

[Andrew NDB]

Yes, also clones.

https://media.giphy.com/media/cfskn2Ozn7j9K/giphy.gif

[Utrommaniac]

First they were all mutated by the Utroms from dinosaurs to create soldiers, inspired by the time travelling turtles. Then two of them bred under the Utroms' notice and produced Zog. Because of this, Emperor Quanin decided to nuke all the efforts his scientists made in creating the Triceratons and had all the adults destroyed. The young Zog remained alive was cloned. He then proceeded to fall in love with one of his clones as an adult anyway. Which is what they were trying to prevent?

(I'm surprised they never discussed how the Utrom scientists felt about the original purge, especially Churk, who originally proposed their creation.)


For the Herd was a trash storyline anyway.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The whole "cloned Triceratons" idea was overcomplicated and unnecessary. If you ignore that two-parter, its absence has zero impact on the rest of the Triceraton storyline.

It sucked, but they can't all be winners. Like Cubed, I enjoyed every Universe issue except the three Invasion tie-in issues... I also greatly enjoyed the Dreadmon issue, even if I did dislike Dreadmon himself!

[MikeandRaph87]

The whole "cloned Triceratons" idea was overcomplicated and unnecessary. If you ignore that two-parter, its absence has zero impact on the rest of the Triceraton storyline.

It sucked, but they can't all be winners. Like Cubed, I enjoyed every Universe issue except the three Invasion tie-in issues... I also greatly enjoyed the Dreadmon issue, even if I did dislike Dreadmon himself!

I agree with 100% of what you just said!8)

[ChosenOne]

Could've used that silly "stuck in the building during the invasion" issue to show us what the Mutanimals were up to at that time. Or something.

[Utrommaniac]

It's especially unnecessary when you consider that females are a thing, and (depending on the artist at least), they all have individual characteristics. Which wouldn't matter if they were all Zog.
"You're Zog, he's Zog, I'M Zog! Is there anyone here that ISN'T Zog?"

I very much ignore the two parter because there's a lot wrong with it than just the Triceratons being cloned.

[Andrew NDB]

So are there any actual aliens in the books? Like, that aren't just from Dimension X?

[pferreira]

https://media.giphy.com/media/cfskn2Ozn7j9K/giphy.gifYou gotta just love IDW eh? :lol:

[neatoman]

So are there any actual aliens in the books? Like, that aren't just from Dimension X?

Depends, are you willing to call Renet an alien?

[Andrew NDB]

Depends, are you willing to call Renet an alien?

No, not really.

You gotta just love IDW eh? :lol:

I don't... dislike them. It just became very clear pretty early on that it was all headed full-speed ahead on a trajectory very clearly... not for me. They definitely put a lot of thought into everything they do.

[Utrommaniac]

It's things like this that it really would be better to just call Dimension X another galaxy rather than an alternate dimension.

To me, anything not of Earth should be classified as an extraterrestrial alien, inter-dimensional or not. Extra-extraterrestrial

[Andrew NDB]

I've never really understood it. What's the purpose of even making Dimension X literally an alternate dimension in any of these TMNT spinoffs... vs. just making it a distant corner of the galaxy, or a different galaxy? What storytelling benefits are there to it? Just because the cartoon had it that way, that's why?

[neatoman]

No, not really.

Then no. There are a couple of characters from other dimensions (79th Dimension of Null Time, The Battle Nexus, Ghostbusters world, etc) but none from space that we know of. I guess Null's origin is still up in the air and I think Bishop's dad implied there are space aliens out there, we just don't know yet.

Technically though, there is one, Shub-Niggurath. I don't count her because she's only in one issue (part of the Infestation 2 event) and has never been mentioned since, but she is still part of the canon according to Bobby.

I've never really understood it. What's the purpose of even making Dimension X literally an alternate dimension in any of these TMNT spinoffs... vs. just making it a distant corner of the galaxy, or a different galaxy? What storytelling benefits are there to it? Just because the cartoon had it that way, that's why?

I'm gonna be honest, I really hate Dimension X as a concept too. It has none of the tropes associated with alternate dimensions and all the galaxy ones, they might as well call it Galaxy X.

I just pretend it's some hubworld full of migrant species, like Xen in Half-Life. It's the only way I can justify calling it an alternate dimension.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I thought Bobby said at one point that Dimension X in the IDW comics was another galaxy. Or was that one of the other versions? I know at least one version has it as a distant galaxy.

[Utrommaniac]

Archie described it as a galaxy.

However, when Krang is first properly introducing himself and the Utroms to Baxter Stockman, he describes himself as an "inter-dimensional alien".
https://i.imgur.com/gEpXHO8.png

It should make more sense though. To say it's "another dimension" makes me think of Flatland.

[Andrew NDB]

I mean, as a concept, if you're going to utilize literally an alternate dimension in your story... you would want to introduce stuff that plays on that. Like, if this is my dimension... what is happening in that dimension? What does Earth look like in Dimension X? That sort of thing. And if you're not going to even touch on that, why is it an alternate dimension?

[DrSpengler]

Dimension X as a concept probably worked best in the Archie comic, where despite the name, it was really just a galaxy within our universe.

The Fred Wolf version of Dimension X only felt like it was an alternate dimension due to how weird it could be. Everything was pink/red, and at times there seemed to be completely different laws of physics (breathable atmospheres in space, odd centers of gravity where Rock Soldiers are standing at different angles and on different planes than one another at the same time, etc.). But even then, the weirdness was mostly just "alien" and could be part of the same universe as Earth's in that series.

Honestly, I think the reason we get Dimension X so much regardless of logic is because the name sounds cool. Reason enough, I suppose.

[Joey Kamikaze]

TFW your first instinct is to go for the upvote button but then realize this isn't Reddit.

I do this across so much of the internet, it's not even funny. Actually, the rare times I get on Facebook anymore, I'm annoyed that there's not a downvote button.

[Joey Kamikaze]

On-topic, I am bummed to hear tonight that TMNT Universe is going. Shows how well I've been keeping up with the news as of late. I read Speng's site on the regular, but it's been a while since I was here at the forums.

I guess it had a decent run as the IDW Tales. I hope whatever comes next keeps adding to the breadth of the universe. IDW TMNT has taken a special place in my heart, and I want to see them keep telling new stories, whatever form that takes. If it means I have to go back to snagging miniseries on the regular, so be it. :)

[pferreira]

I mean, as a concept, if you're going to utilize literally an alternate dimension in your story... you would want to introduce stuff that plays on that. Like, if this is my dimension... what is happening in that dimension? What does Earth look like in Dimension X? That sort of thing. And if you're not going to even touch on that, why is it an alternate dimension?Yeah this always puzzled me. Was it another universe and not a different dimension? I mean in Return of the Technodrome Krang opens a portal to allow the Rock Soldiers to come in. Does it lead to another dimension or another universe?