TMNT #83 Preview and Discussion

[AlZarkovski]

Full preview soon. First look:

https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple125/v4/01/5a/69/015a698d-6015-4520-feb6-2604b698159c/source/360x480bb.jpghttps://is5-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple115/v4/28/be/0e/28be0e64-fceb-b647-533d-7a31c850ee71/source/360x480bb.jpghttps://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple125/v4/03/94/ef/0394efef-e524-d649-ab00-bebb04f21c4f/source/360x480bb.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

This looks to be a real mammoth of an issue!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And silly me, I'm just waiting for a plague of rats to fvck up some people and a creepy dude with a flute to lead them all to their deaths.

But yeah, sure... Manmoth. :trazz:

[CyberCubed]

I love stories set in snow or a mountain landscape, so this should look good visually from the usual city or building settings we're in 90% of the time. Also Manmoth looks cool visually.

[funatic]

This looks to be a real mammoth of an issue!

:nod::rolling::nod::rolling::nod::rolling::nod:

[Redeemer]

And silly me, I'm just waiting for a plague of rats to fvck up some people and a creepy dude with a flute to lead them all to their deaths.

But yeah, sure... Manmoth. :trazz:

Thats what I have been waiting for..... :ohwell: Hopefully this issue will be good.

[bushido]

Full preview here (https://graphicpolicy.com/2018/06/05/preview-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-83/).

[oldmanwinters]

First appearance of IDW Irma, so... COLLECTOR"S ISSUE!
:tlol::tlol::tlol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Mike has a plan.

It better not be as stupid as his plan in the Invasion Universe tie-in issue. :tgrumble:

It better not be a mouse.

[neatoman]

First appearance of IDW Irma, so... COLLECTOR"S ISSUE!
:tlol::tlol::tlol:

Can't wait for to turn out to be Krang's secret clone, grown by Ch'rell to fill the void in case he was ever eaten by a mutant alligator or something. Being a emergency replacement clone, he'd literally be Sub-Prime.

Edit: So...
Tezuka, huh?

[ChosenOne]

Great issue! The number of plot advancements and set ups for the future was through the roof, including something I predicted a while back, but it didn't feel forced, and Manmoth has a very fun personality both on and off the hunt. I'm very much excited for what's going on with Stockman.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Stockman's definitely gonna be mayor... and that's freaking AWESOME. :tcool:

I enjoyed Mikey's takedown of Manmoth; it wasn't a copout. And I really like Manmoth, too. Big hairy dude's alright.

I wonder what the bit about Raphael is foreshadowing... that rumored "Weapon X" type story, maybe?

[ChosenOne]

Stockman's definitely gonna be mayor... and that's freaking AWESOME. :tcool:

(...)

I wonder what the bit about Raphael is foreshadowing... that rumored "Weapon X" type story, maybe?

This comic really needs to go way past #100 now, no way we get the payoff to the whole Mayor Stockman thing in just the next 15 issues with everything else that is brewing.

Possibly. And possibly (wishful thinking here) Shredder!Raph foreshadowing some time further down the line.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This comic really needs to go way past #100 now, no way we get the payoff to the whole Mayor Stockman thing in just the next 15 issues with everything else that is brewing.

Possibly. And possibly (wishful thinking here) Shredder!Raph foreshadowing some time further down the line.

No, to me, it sounds more like circling back to when Raphael was a loner in the beginning of IDW.

I think he's gonna end up on some Mutant Weapon program run by Null, with Zodi on the roster, and there's gonna be some kind of conditioning used on him... your family isn't coming; you're not a being, you're a product; etc etc.

[ChosenOne]

No, to me, it sounds more like circling back to when Raphael was a loner in the beginning of IDW.

I think he's gonna end up on some Mutant Weapon program run by Null, with Zodi on the roster, and there's gonna be some kind of conditioning used on him... your family isn't coming; you're not a being, you're a product; etc etc.

In that regard, yes, it's totally circling back. I even considered asking Bobby something to that effect after I finished reading the issue but then some other stuff got in the way and I ended up not doing it. But it's clear that that's what they're going for. Raph > Leo > Donnie > Mike subtly taking the spotlight in turns works pretty well.

And yeah, I like that idea. But that's the immediate future. Shredder!Raph could still be a long-term move. (Really, really wishful thinking here...)

[ChosenOne]

Also, does anyone else picture Manhmoth's voice as Mark Addy's Robert Baratheon, or is it just me? :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if all of them end up heading down Splitsville.

Raphael goes on his own (Mutant Weapon program as suggested above?), Leo takes over the Foot clan, Don goes to keep living out with the aliens and help them recover from Bishop's attack (and possibly keep Ch'rell from doing something awful?), and Mike looks after Slash should he survived...maybe with Mondo if he decides to split from the Mutanimals as well.


Down to maybe 150 when they all have to get their sh*t together for the resurrection of the Dragon Lord.


I completely forgot this issue came out today with the week I've been having :lol: . But it was nice for them to have another chat - and for Manmoth to respect Mike as well. Mike's eating like he's visiting two grandmas back to back.

[CyberCubed]

Was a nice issue, I'm hoping each Pantheon member gets a solo "spotlight" issue like Manmoth got here, such as Jagwar and Gothano who need one. It's nice to see at least one full issue or two about each member just to see how they work and their characters.

Seeing Baxter and Hun as allies will never not be weird though, but I guess it's the best direction to take them rather than just have them be villains foiled by the Turtles over and over. The side stuff with the gangs is kinda dull though, at this point of the story seeing the umpteenth human gang be defeated/disbanded/killed off by the Foot has gotten stale. I mean this feels like the 6th or 7th time this has happened now. Remember The Savate, the Ghost Boys, the ones in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms? :lol:

I also think Rat King has no real grand plan other than to cause constant mischief and chaos, which is fine I suppose. Kitsune is the driving force of the Patheon. I also think Leo realizes he can just trap them somewhere like they did to Chi-You way back in the first Ghostbusters mini.

[ChosenOne]

The side stuff with the gangs is kinda dull though, at this point of the story seeing the umpteenth human gang be defeated/disbanded/killed off by the Foot has gotten stale. I mean this feels like the 6th or 7th time this has happened now. Remember The Savate, the Ghost Boys, the ones in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms? :lol:

I dunno, I like Lupo and think the story could do with the Mafia as a bigger presence in the underworld. Maybe not up to par with the Foot, but just enough to provide a credible street-level threat when necessary. And his summary of recent events was hilarious, it really drove home how ingrained the weirdness has become and how ordinary humans (there's few stock bad guys as ordinary as the Italian Mafia) view the mutants, aliens and freaks in their midst. That sort of perspective is only likely to get ramped up now that Mayor Stockman is about to become a thing.

[funatic]

Oh man(moth), that aside with Raph at the caves really got me hyped. Can’t wait for him to go rogue down the line, or wolverine rather. :tcouch:

[MikeandRaph87]

Oh man(moth), that aside with Raph at the caves really got me hyped. Can’t wait for him to go rogue down the line, or wolverine rather. :tcouch:

Mammoth seeing Raphael in himself how will that play put down the line?

Mammorh was no help, but not a threat like most of the Pantheon. Yet Leonardo seems to have picked up something.

Rst King ate a rat? He has been watching Norman Osborne for too long. Yes, gross and shows he is off his rocker. It's just in most iteraruins despite being a human Rat King considers himself a rat so it does not feel right for that move.

[MikeandRaph87]

I dunno, I like Lupo and think the story could do with the Mafia as a bigger presence in the underworld. Maybe not up to par with the Foot, but just enough to provide a credible street-level threat when necessary. And his summary of recent events was hilarious, it really drove home how ingrained the weirdness has become and how ordinary humans (there's few stock bad guys as ordinary as the Italian Mafia) view the mutants, aliens and freaks in their midst. That sort of perspective is only likely to get ramped up now that Mayor Stockman is about to become a thing.

Is this setting up a rebellion from Splinter? I mean Lupo serms to think its in the underworld's best interest to even if he was put in his place. There is also Jenika apparently crushing on Casey Jones and that could have her turn on Splinter as well.

Mousers vs The Rat King! I wish the 1987 cartoon did something like this. It has been practically screaming to be done for decades now.

So Hun is an ally or what? Arnold Sr. has been an afterthought ever since #54.

[ChosenOne]

Is this setting up a rebellion from Splinter? I mean Lupo serms to think its in the underworld's best interest to even if he was put in his place. There is also Jenika apparently crushing on Casey Jones and that could have her turn on Splinter as well.

Mousers vs The Rat King! I wish the 1987 cartoon did something like this. It has been practically screaming to be done for decades now.

So Hun is an ally or what? Arnold Sr. has been an afterthought ever since #54.

Probably setting up a more City at War-esque arc after Splinter bites it or is overthrown. Jennika already turned on him once, technically... Add a love interest into the equation and she'll do it again without a second thought.

The Mousers will probably intervene at a crucial point in the fight next issue.

Hun is muscle for the Purple Dragons while he works at rebuilding the bond with his son. Pretty much his only purpose for existing right now, which is why I see a heroic sacrifice in his future.

[CyberCubed]

The Foot Clan (or Purple Dragons) generally dominate over every other gang that shows up in the series. As I said it happened to The Savate, The Ghost Boys, the clan in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms, Lupo and his gang, the New Jersey gang from the previous issue, etc. It's generally just to show us over and over that the Foot Clan/Purple Dragons will consistently wipe out any other gang that shows up in the series. They're basically all fodder, and that's why it feels like the same thing over and over.

Unless Bishop/EPF decide to directly attack Splinter/The Foot, there really is nobody to challenge them. I guess we could see a big change when Karai finally gets back to New York (which is taking a long time, lol), but until then not much will change.

And besides that Null's stuff seems like it takes place in an entirely separate bubble, with the Mutanimals just being allies of the Turtles and wanting to stop her.

[Utrommaniac]

Rat King ate a rat? He has been watching Norman Osborne for too long. Yes, gross and shows he is off his rocker. It's just in most iterations despite being a human Rat King considers himself a rat so it does not feel right for that move.

He's eaten rats a bunch of times. I think three, maybe? It's always pretty gross though...

[neatoman]

I wonder why he does it? Are they just really tasty?

[funatic]

i wonder why he does it? Are they just really tasty?

You are what you eat. :D

[ChosenOne]

Rats and mice are known cannibals, so it makes sense.

[ProphetofGanja]

It also emphasizes his chaotic nature

[CyberCubed]

IDW's Rat King is a bit of a mystery, to this day I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish. :lol:

We know Kitsune has a clear objective to ressurrect Shredder as her father the Dragon Lord, but Rat King just seems to cause chaos and mayhem without any real motive. Although I guess that's the point of him as that's his role in the Patheon, just like Toad Baron just likes making extravagant parties with food and have a ball.

[MikeandRaph87]

IDW's Rat King is a bit of a mystery, to this day I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish. :lol:

We know Kitsune has a clear objective to ressurrect Shredder as her father the Dragon Lord, but Rat King just seems to cause chaos and mayhem without any real motive. Although I guess that's the point of him as that's his role in the Patheon, just like Toad Baron just likes making extravagant parties with food and have a ball.

What is The Joker trying to accomplish? Anarchy. Same with The Rat King. It is how they get their kicks. The more chaos, the more anarchy which means the more fun.

[Utrommaniac]

https://i.imgur.com/4tYCLK7.png

"Chaos for the sake of chaos" isn't really a villain motivation I particularly like, personally. It just seems like it was made by a middle school edgelord creating their first OC.

(Zaheer from Legend of Korra is an exception, though.)

[amax13]

I was not initially crazy about the visual design for the IDW Rat King (I miss the bandages and the red hair!), but I have really been enjoying him as a character. I agree that "the point" of him is that he creates chaos and anarchy. I also have liked the development the Pantheon has received over the past few issues. The existence of the gateways to the other members (present at least with Toad Baron and Manmoth) seems to indicate that each has a designated area/lair? If so, where are the gateways for Kitsune and Rat King?

[2K3]

The Foot Clan (or Purple Dragons) generally dominate over every other gang that shows up in the series. As I said it happened to The Savate, The Ghost Boys, the clan in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms, Lupo and his gang, the New Jersey gang from the previous issue, etc. It's generally just to show us over and over that the Foot Clan/Purple Dragons will consistently wipe out any other gang that shows up in the series. They're basically all fodder, and that's why it feels like the same thing over and over.

It's a shame really, cause I always liked their being a multitude of Street Gangs all fighting for control. I even liked that Mob Boss Antonio that was introduced during the "City Fall" arc. It looked like he was gonna be a big part (considering his seat at the main table with Shredder, Karai, Kitsune and Hun in the Shredder Micro... heck even Darius was proving to be interesting, alas they choose to either ignore or kill them off.

[TMNTChris1980]

This issue was great! I still want to see the Triceratons come back, but Manmoth is a really fun character to watch.

[Utrommaniac]

They're back in September. Plus there was the Lost Causes two parter in Universe.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

https://i.imgur.com/4tYCLK7.png

"Chaos for the sake of chaos" isn't really a villain motivation I particularly like, personally. It just seems like it was made by a middle school edgelord creating their first OC.

(Zaheer from Legend of Korra is an exception, though.)

This is sort of the problem with Ch'rell in the 2003 series, he's a very flat and static character who strives to conquer for conquest's sake. Other than the accumulation of wealth he seemingly isn't really driven by anything.

[Utrommaniac]

Oh god, do I agree. I've called him a Villain Sue in the past. But I also think Ch'rell's problems are worsened when compared to the other Utroms who are supposedly beacons of Peace and Goodness.

I've had lots of ideas on what could have made him a better character. The turtles never really learn Ch'rell's side of his turmoil with the Utroms, besides Karai saying that "they have chased him his entire life". And I go back for the fourth or fifth time going back to this thing (http://nixariel.tumblr.com/post/168597753950/so-bat-snake-wanted-to-hear-about-the-rebel) describing what could have been a better outcome for his character.

The thing about 2003 TMNT is that it absolutely insists on having black and white moralities with no gray area even in the face of tragic backstories (Baxter Stockman's for instance).


Which is why I'm looking forward to Ch'rell in IDW. Because unlike his original counterpart, he's set up off the bat as being capable of love in a way that the other wasn't. He's a war hero to his people rather than a criminal; that's probably how he got a scar taking up a quarter of his face. He adores his leader to the point of complete distress if something were to happen. His sister loves him in a way that forced her to make the painful decision between keeping him in stasis indefinitely or sending him to prison should he be released (there's also probably the ill preparation to explain the Krang situation, but then Kleve just slapped it on him without so much as giving him a chance to take a breath first coming out of stasis); hopefully he'll love her more than he'll hate her decisions on his behalf. Besides, that would be a nice parallel with the turtles going to four separate corners by the end of the next story arch.

He's only spoken two lines so far, and he's already leagues more interesting than 2003 Ch'rell, who just screamed and pontificated about how "He's The Best" and "I Will Rule The World, Worms!"

I sometimes think about how things would have changed if, say, Ch'rell loved Karai as much as Splinter loved the turtles? What kind of spot would that put Leonardo in with all his desperation to turn Karai to their side?





I have a lot of feelings about how 2003 Ch'rell could have been better...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I disagree; I thought Ch'rell had enough backstory. He was imprisoned by his own people, and he blamed them for his being marooned on a technologically backwards planet. He didn't care about the Turtles, he didn't care about the Foot, all he ever wanted was to get back to the stars and punish his own species for locking him up.

Isn't that enough? Not every villain needs to have the pathos or tragic backstory of a Baxter Stockman.

Heath Ledger's Joker was arguably one of the most successful villains in a comic book movie, and he didn't have a single shred of legitimate backstory or consistent motivation. If done well, it can work.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I agree. Honestly, at this point it's almost a cliche in of itself to require every villain to have a tragic or sympathetic backstory. Sometimes it's nice to have someone just be evil and that's it.

[Utrommaniac]

It doesn't necessarily have to be a "tragic" backstory, just some kind of backup. Maybe it comes from generational power lust. Maybe it's being sick of the status quo. Maybe it's starting off thinking they can do better and then unintentionally mutate to something they never intended. I understand why people would enjoy such a character, but it doesn't really do it for me. I would like to see at least some kind of history that doesn't involve violent abuse as a child because that's probably the most cliche tragic backstory of all.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

So, some of you alright with him just being greedy enough to commit genocide and wanting revenge solely because there were consequences for his actions? So, he's simply a symbol of capitalism at its finest during a time where all of Peter Laird's projects had a political agenda?

[CyberCubed]

Is it just me or does it feel like it's taking a long time for issue #84 to come out, even though the span between releases is pretty much the same as always? :lol:

I feel like I'm ready to move on to the next arc already.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So, some of you alright with him just being greedy enough to commit genocide and wanting revenge solely because there were consequences for his actions? So, he's simply a symbol of capitalism at its finest during a time where all of Peter Laird's projects had a political agenda?

Considering Ch'rell never showed ANY interest in financial gain or the acquisition of wealth, I think you're making a huge stretch here.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, that's a good point, he never really did :teek: . I guess he just realized that on Earth, wealth=power, so he had to act the part, but other than that, it wasn't really critical to his goals and wouldn't have cared less otherwise.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Is it just me or does it feel like it's taking a long time for issue #84 to come out, even though the span between releases is pretty much the same as always? :lol:

I feel like I'm ready to move on to the next arc already.

Nah, same. I've always been more interested in Bishop than the Pantheon, and the IDW Rat King... well, he hasn't really been given the chance to live up to his menace.

The kids will be saved, and he'll skulk off.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, his threat has been pretty dull all things considered. Especially when he acts like a great big deal that this particular city is in disarray. It's not like there aren't war-torn cities all over the planet where he could easily do the same thing to his content. And could do it without those meddling kids and their dinosaur.

(Where is Pepperoni anyway?)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The IDW trade formula of "save the real action for the final issue of the trade" is really wearing thin for me.

If Rat King's not gonna cut loose until #84, by that point, I'm already irritated.

Whereas, in the last Bishop arc, the dude gutted the Mutanimals with their own ally in the first issue. That was enough to keep me interested.

And, I suppose, it could be that this is the Rat King, and he and the Pantheon at large have been some of the most slow-burning elements of the IDW TMNT run...

If Rat King doesn't kill a single victim this story arc, and the sight of kids actually going over the bridge was just a vision of the near future... well, I think I'm done with the Rat King. This is the last chance. Wow me, IDW.

[Utrommaniac]

On one hand, I can see how it might work since the turtles are on a downward spiral (Raph especially). Either Rat King will kill someone and make things worse into their fight with Leatherhead in the next issue until things implode when they have to confront Bishop again...or they'll escape by the skin of their teeth.


I for one am not expecting much from him. Interestingly, between Bishop, a Terminator Man with the greatest Exoxenophobia to walk the Earth, Shredder, a plain ol' man outside his time with a centuries-old vendetta and puppet to a Goddess' greater plans, and Krang, literal destroyer of hundreds of civilizations from another dimension...why does the god-like immortal with a thread in every major event in Earth's history have the lowest threat threshold? Step up your fvcking game, man. You're going to let a robot, a tiny pink ball of rage, and an almost-regular guy be better antagonists than you?

[CyberCubed]

Pantheon, and Null (and I guess Ch'rell too), are the slowest burning plotlines, but I guess with the Pantheon makes sense if they're going to stick around the entire run of the book. I do wish they explored Rat King and the others quicker though.

With Bishop on the other I don't mind, because we know he'll be around for the long haul too, and at least he's a driving force in all the current plotlines. And Bishop's not a character I expected "defeated" in a manner, even if he remains completely evil in this incarnation and never becomes an ally to the Turtles like the other series, because the EPF will always be around.

[Candy Kappa]

Tiny pink ball of rage is a perfect description of Krang:lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Pantheon, and Null (and I guess Ch'rell too), are the slowest burning plotlines, but I guess with the Pantheon makes sense if they're going to stick around the entire run of the book. I do wish they explored Rat King and the others quicker though.

Eh, Ch'rell doesn't bother me. He's Krang 2.0, I don't care if it takes awhile for him to actually do anything of consequence. I view him more as a continuation of Krang's threat, rather than his own legitimate threat.

But Null and the Pantheon... yeah, gotta agree with you on those.

why does the god-like immortal with a thread in every major event in Earth's history have the lowest threat threshold? Step up your fvcking game, man.

Damn. DAMN. That's extremely well said. And now I'm even more disappointed with IDW's Rat King.

For all the different versions we've had, I think Mirage Rat King is still the most compelling.

[Utrommaniac]

To break down even more, at least form from the way I see the characters...

"I'm the most powerful force in my dimension going through some terrible issues that I'm not going to bother to address. Nearly all of my people are dead. I'm going to convert the air of a primitive planet - without any companionship or input from one of my own kind - and anyone who opposes me will be crushed."

"The immortal witch I married says I have an incredible destiny enabled by reincarnation and I can't let go of my vendetta against a man who betrayed me hundreds of years ago because of the culture we were brought up in. I have no idea my wife is using me as a ploy for her daddy issues."

"My father created me as a vessel to fight against a traumatic event in his life. But I'm going to take it in a direction beyond what he ever intended and that includes killing him with a mutant I weaponized. I won't listen to any reason extra terrestrials - of this dimension or otherwise - have for coming to Earth even if it's just for shelter."

"TOOT TOOT, CHILDREN, IT'S CHAOS TIME."

Even Null at this point is more interesting than Rat King, and she's even more vague with her intentions.

The Pantheon can be killed, let's just prod Leatherhead in his direction and send him to hang out with Krang for a bit. (They can both drive Bronson up a wall)

[MikeandRaph87]

Nah, same. I've always been more interested in Bishop than the Pantheon, and the IDW Rat King... well, he hasn't really been given the chance to live up to his menace.

The kids will be saved, and he'll skulk off.

I agree 100% with this post!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Even Null at this point is more interesting than Rat King, and she's even more vague with her intentions.

See, that's the thing! Null doesn't bother us because she's so vague. We're not sure what to expect, or what we might be missing.

Rat King seems to be like Chris Nolan's Joker, or a kid who likes to pull wings off flies and drop them onto a live anthill. He should be tormenting people, doing monstrous things, not just skulking around with a flute and mocking Kitsune.

C'mon, RK, show us some real "god of chaos" stuff! I want to believe we'll see something in the next issue that'll shut me up and make me eat my words. But...