Kathleen Kennedy leaving Lucasfilm... maybe in September

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.pajiba.com/assets_c/2018/06/Kathleen%20Kennedy%20Comic%20Con%20Getty-thumb-700xauto-197798.jpg

https://movieweb.com/kathleen-kennedy-leaving-lucasfilm-star-wars/

[MikeandRaph87]

This isn't a joke? The fans flustrated by behind-the-scenes turmoil with multiple firings and plots we were waiting anxious for only to get the finger actually got her removed? Well, fans do have a voice after all.


So...how about Luke teleporting like Hamill believes he did?

[Vegita-San]

If this isn't a joke, It's a START.

There are TONS of people at lucasfilm that are still loyal to her AND believe in her agenda. they need to go too!

if you hire dave filoni to right the ship, like they should, he needs his staff in there to fix a VERY large whole.

It's sad. I had ZERO opinion of her when she was first announced. i did not know about her, OR her history..but after revisionist lucas, I was hopeful someone with a plan was coming in. oh, how FAST I wished lucas was back.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't like how the "excerpt" ascribes to the Kennedy "redeemed Star Wars from the awful prequels with a ANH remake" narrative, which is a quantifiably FAKE narrative.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I definitely agree that Kathleen Kennedy has been more "Warner Brothers" than "Kevin Feige."

But that's not really a good comparison. She basically has been steering the Star Wars ship to follow in the rebooted Star Trek path... reboot, tell the same stories, young pretty actors, safe predictable stories matched with incredibly bizarre creative choices.

J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson seem to be sci-fi relaunch poison... except financially, which is unfortunate.

[Vegita-San]

I don't like how the "excerpt" ascribes to the Kennedy "redeemed Star Wars from the awful prequels with a ANH remake" narrative, which is a quantifiably FAKE narrative.

yeah, I was reading that too.

news flash movie web. She IS at fault. her and her bosses at disney. it's all her direction.

Getting rid of her is a start, but there's lots of others that need to follow with her.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I need to watch the prequels for myself and determine just how truly awful they are.

But as a consumer who believes in artistic integrity, I'll take a bad original story over a soulless retelling any day.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to needling my J.J. Abrams voodoo doll...

[Vegita-San]

without going over again, IMHO the short list.

bad acting. bad dialogue. Jar Jar (thankfully reduced later) Hayden Christensen (see first two).

If you had fixed those few issues, the Prequels would have been FAR more enjoyable, as evidenced by Clone Wars.

[Autbot_Benz]

Fire her and replace her with Dave Feloni

[oldmanwinters]

I don't like how the "excerpt" ascribes to the Kennedy "redeemed Star Wars from the awful prequels with a ANH remake" narrative, which is a quantifiably FAKE narrative.

While Kathleen Kennedy worked wonders relaunching this property from the abyss of the Lucas prequel trilogy and turning it into a bigger than ever all-devouring cultural force...

The "abyss" of the prequel trilogy may not have earned the adoration of long-time fans and critics, but it certainly made the franchise lots of money and earned it a new audience who grew up with the merchandise, video games, and media spin-offs.

[NinjaPug]

The original report said Kasdan and Kinberg are in the story group so I'm assuming the rest of the report is BS too.

[Vegita-San]

The "abyss" of the prequel trilogy may not have earned the adoration of long-time fans and critics, but it certainly made the franchise lots of money and earned it a new audience who grew up with the merchandise, video games, and media spin-offs.

yep.

there was enough new, and enough GOOD new, to earn it a nice nostalgia spot in the fans and franchise. I have a feeling the same will be true with Star wars rebels.


But, R1? People may like it, but what new did it introduce? TFA? TLJ? Solo? nothing really memorable about ANY of these movies. from pacing, to editing to story.

They are just made to make a quick billion and quickly forgotten about.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

without going over again, IMHO the short list.

bad acting. bad dialogue. Jar Jar (thankfully reduced later) Hayden Christensen (see first two).

If you had fixed those few issues, the Prequels would have been FAR more enjoyable, as evidenced by Clone Wars.

Yeah... I mean, it's got Ewan Macgregor, Liam Neesons, Samuel Motherfvcking Jackson, Natalie Portman... some really good stars in there.

But what do I know, I haven't seen 'em. I'm a filthy casual. :trazz:

[Vegita-San]

Yeah... I mean, it's got Ewan Macgregor, Liam Neesons, Samuel Motherfvcking Jackson, Natalie Portman... some really good stars in there.

But what do I know, I haven't seen 'em. I'm a filthy casual. :trazz:
:D
here, let me insult your family lineage...cause that's apparently what you do around here when someone says something that goes against the grain.

then watch as I get support for saying said nasty thing and nothing gets done about it ;o)

[plastroncafe]

The prequels would have benefited from not being helmed by Lucas himself.
The guy's an idea man, not a showrunner.

[sdp]

Not gonna care until it's official, but I can see Disney being mad that Ep.8 didn't do as well with merchandise and now Solo underperforming which is a bigger deal.

A more interesting topic than bashing Kathleen since we've done that enough in TLJ thread :lol: Is, what can Disney do to turn the ship in the right direction. I'm not even sure how they'd be able to get ME back on board 100% like I was before Ep.7, to me the damage is already done, similar to the DCEU. I'd definitely start by taking a break after Ep.9, hope JJ can salvage the trilogy somehow and then start with a new movie set in a totally different time and place.

The prequels would have benefited from not being helmed by Lucas himself.
The guy's an idea man, not a showrunner.

They really should've just fixed his ideas for the ST from the layout they gave him. I mean most of the 'new' I love in TFA, it was the 'old' that I hated. I wanted Rey to be the main Jedi, I wanted to discover what had happened and how the world had changed, not go back to the OT. I wanted Fynn to also be a Jedi, no reason to only have 1 Jedi anymore.

The prequels have tons of bad things in it, but nothing came close to ruining Star Wars for me, Ep.3 tried hard but not enough. I could put up with the bad decisions, it's actually the Sequel Trilogy that's made me like the PT less, I mean if I don't want to put up with the ST crap why should I with the PT even if not as damaging?

[Andrew NDB]

But, R1? People may like it, but what new did it introduce?

A bunch of characters no one can remember the names of that died by the time it was over.

[plastroncafe]

They really should've just fixed his ideas for the ST from the layout they gave him. I mean most of the 'new' I love in TFA, it was the 'old' that I hated. I wanted Rey to be the main Jedi, I wanted to discover what had happened and how the world had changed, not go back to the OT. I wanted Fynn to also be a Jedi, no reason to only have 1 Jedi anymore.

The prequels have tons of bad things in it, but nothing came close to ruining Star Wars for me, Ep.3 tried hard but not enough. I could put up with the bad decisions, it's actually the Sequel Trilogy that's made me like the PT less, I mean if I don't want to put up with the ST crap why should I with the PT even if not as damaging?

Yeah, this all comes down to a matter of taste, because I really REALLY liked TFA, and while I found TLJ to have pacing issues, I really did enjoy it's deconstruction of the universe as we knew it.

I'm clearly outside of the entry window for the Prequels, which I found uninteresting, and all flash with no bang.

[MikeandRaph87]

But what do I know, I haven't seen 'em. I'm a filthy casual.


I am a filthy casual who has seen and own all the movies, but nothing else ever seen or read aside from Darth Plageuis. Even a filthy casual can appreciate it!

The problem with the prequel trilogy is the same with the sequel trilogy, its not the greatness and originality of the original trilogy. Aside from Anakin's impatience in Mace defeating Palpitine being the entire driving force of the original trilogy and making a really dumb character in a non cyborg Anakin, Revenge of the Sith is great.

[NinjaPug]

yep.

there was enough new, and enough GOOD new, to earn it a nice nostalgia spot in the fans and franchise. I have a feeling the same will be true with Star wars rebels.


But, R1? People may like it, but what new did it introduce? TFA? TLJ? Solo? nothing really memorable about ANY of these movies. from pacing, to editing to story.

They are just made to make a quick billion and quickly forgotten about.

TLJ had plenty of new stuff especially related to the Force and the capabilities of Force users. A lot of people just didn't like them.

[AT-Man]

TLJ finally made The Force interesting.

[Vegita-San]

the only thing 'new' with the force that it did was do away with the need of training. EVERYONE is suddenly an expert from the start. shm.

hardly bold... just pandering to this generation that thinks you get trophies for everything.

[plastroncafe]

The Prequels gave us a literal force baby.

[ZariusTwo]

TLJ finally made The Force interesting.

Empire Strikes Back already did that

[NinjaPug]

the only thing 'new' with the force that it did was do away with the need of training. EVERYONE is suddenly an expert from the start. shm.

hardly bold... just pandering to this generation that thinks you get trophies for everything.

That was in TFA.

There were new aspects of the Force in TLJ.

[Allio]

The Prequels gave us a literal force baby.

Isn't the official word was that Anakin was a ritual summoning?

[plastroncafe]

Isn't the official word was that Anakin was a ritual summoning?

I can't speak to that, but if you've got a link I'd sure love to read about it.
I only remember Anikin's mother saying the boy had no father, with the heavy implication he was not consummated in the usual way.

So everyone knowing how to control the force with as much ease as there is lightning-bending in Legend of Korra doesn't bother me nearly as much.

[Vegita-San]

Isn't the official word was that Anakin was a ritual summoning?

It was basically an experiment by darth plageus to live forever. apparently instead of extending life, he created it instead.

it's more or less dialogue during part 3 with the oprea scene.

[CyberCubed]

I don't see why this matters, Episode 9 wraps up the new trilogy and is already well underway and that does it for the sequel movies. We're just going to get spinoffs from now on anyway.

I hope you guys enjoy the "Boba Fett" and "Yoda" movies coming up, besides the Obi-wan movie.

[Andrew NDB]

It was basically an experiment by darth plageus to live forever. apparently instead of extending life, he created it instead.

it's more or less dialogue during part 3 with the oprea scene.

Anakin was created by Plagueis to bring balance to the Force. He was and he did. It's not spelled out and it would be stupid if it was, but there it is.

[Vegita-San]

Anakin was created by Plagueis to bring balance to the Force. He was and he did. It's not spelled out and it would be stupid if it was, but there it is.

I don't remember that. I remember the 'he'd even influenced the midichlorians to create life' line. or something to that effect. and I always assumed it was plagues who influenced the force to randomly create anakin.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't remember that. I remember the 'he'd even influenced the midichlorians to create life' line. or something to that effect. and I always assumed it was plagues who influenced the force to randomly create anakin.

Right. But that was the reasoning. They weren't just making cabbage patch kids to make cabbage patch kids.

[Vegita-San]

Right. But that was the reasoning. They weren't just making cabbage patch kids to make cabbage patch kids.

was it mentioned elsewhere in extended cannon?

I always assumed it was just a deliberate experiment to get the life extending ability perfected.

[plastroncafe]

Wookiepedia lists only this:

Believed to have been conceived by the midi-chlorians,[16] Anakin Skywalker was born to the slave Shmi Skywalker.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker

In the waning days of the Clone Wars, Skywalker became fearful of losing his secret wife, Senator Padmé Amidala, due to premonitions of her death in childbirth. Darth Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith whom Skywalker knew as Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palpatine, sought to lure Skywalker to the dark side of the Force[8] by recounting a so-called "Sith legend"[10] that involved the midi-chlorians. According to Sidious, Darth Plagueis was a wise and powerful Sith Lord who could manipulate midi-chlorians to create new life, an ability that extended to preserving life from death itself. Ultimately, the Chancellor's story served to motivate Skywalker's betrayal of the Jedi Order, resulting in his fall to the dark side as Darth Vader.[8]
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian

[Jester]

I always assumed it was Sidious himself that created Anakin with the force via midi-chlorians. Didn't he say that Plagueis' apprentice learned the technique and then later killed his master. I always assumed that the Emperor was speaking of himself when he mentioned the apprentice.

[Andrew NDB]

I always assumed it was Sidious himself that created Anakin with the force via midi-chlorians. Didn't he say that Plagueis' apprentice learned the technique and then later killed his master. I always assumed that the Emperor was speaking of himself when he mentioned the apprentice.

He later told Anakin, "It was a power only one has mastered (Plagueis)... but together, I know we can learn!" But then Padme dies and it's moot, so Anakin presumably stops asking about it.

[Sumac]

I need to watch the prequels for myself and determine just how truly awful they are.

But as a consumer who believes in artistic integrity, I'll take a bad original story over a soulless retelling any day.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to needling my J.J. Abrams voodoo doll...
They are...mixed bag.
At least they are very different from OT in terms of the stories, so there's that.

The main problem of prequels, that they have a very good story under all that. There are a lot of world building, political intrigues and character dramas...and all of this buried under bad stilled acting from some of the main characters, bad dialogues in general and too many (sometimes mediocre) special effects.

Like Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions there are good ideas somewhere, but you need to try and force yourself to not let all the bad stuff to distract you from discerning good things about those movies.

Yeah... I mean, it's got Ewan Macgregor, Liam Neesons, Samuel Motherfvcking Jackson, Natalie Portman... some really good stars in there.

But what do I know, I haven't seen 'em. I'm a filthy casual. :trazz:
Good actors in the hands of a bad director are worthless.

Arguably the only characters who were good characters in the prequels are SLJ's Mace Windu, Palpatine, Obi Wan and Liam Neeson's Quai Gon.

[Vegita-San]

I always assumed it was Sidious himself that created Anakin with the force via midi-chlorians. Didn't he say that Plagueis' apprentice learned the technique and then later killed his master. I always assumed that the Emperor was speaking of himself when he mentioned the apprentice.

Actually, I thought it was always meant that 'only one' had learned the technique to save someone from death and create life. It probably never mattered much to sidious himself, who may have thought the technique flawed and then killed his master.

hence why he says 'together, we can unlock the secret'. I think that it was then that he realized the technique probably worked, had created anakin the one time it was used, and it was worth pursuing with anakin to unlock the secret.

[ZariusTwo]

XpqgYSUL38M

[Andrew NDB]

XpqgYSUL38M

He should have done that with "Looper 2," or "Bricks" or something... not Star Wars, namely the second of three movies in a sequel trilogy that already wasted its running time on setups and remakes in the first one.

[Sumac]

Looper was one of the most disjointed movies I've seen. Not to mention rather questionable plot.
Just saying.

[Vegita-San]

checking out some youtubers on this.

some of them seem to think she's gone. this is just disney seeing how bad of a PR mess they'll have on their hands when it gets officially announced.

at this point, I'll believe it when i see it. but she is only part of the problem. the story group needs to go. pablo needs to go (apparently he's loyal to her). JJ and Rian need to go.

Legends needs to be re instated, an all the old authors asked back. these new, cheaper ones they got to replace them are horrid at best.

but still.. it'll take ALOT to win the good will back.

[NinjaPug]

Well if the youtubers think she's gone it must be true

[CyberCubed]

They're not going to make the old EU canon again when 90% of current fans have no idea what that is.

[Andrew NDB]

Maybe it's not too late to reedit and reshoot large portions of "The Last Jedi" under new management. :) Preserving all of Carrie's stuff, of course.

I wouldn't mind waiting an extra year for IX if it means we can get a proper VIII.

[Andrew NDB]

Looper was one of the most disjointed movies I've seen. Not to mention rather questionable plot.
Just saying.

I didn't like Looper but apart from the stupidly simple "climax" at the end, most of the problems I have with it aren't necessarily a problem with Rian's direction or story.

Unless his vision was always to set 80% of his futuristic time travel movie on a boring farm.

[Xav]

I wanted Rey to be the main Jedi,Wait what? How the heck was Rey not the main Jedi?

[Andrew NDB]

Wait what? How the heck was Rey not the main Jedi?

There was no main Jedi. Her arc went from "inexplicably Force super sensitive person" to... I dunno... Luke's sort of Padawan to nothing. Her story in TLJ was meaningless. Her big scene in it is her mirror room scene, which is even more ambiguous than her Force visions scene in TFA. She comes out of movie #2 learning a little better how to move things with her mind. And how to lightsaber non-Force people, though even this wasn't something Luke taught her.

[Sumac]

I didn't like Looper but apart from the stupidly simple "climax" at the end, most of the problems I have with it aren't necessarily a problem with Rian's direction or story.

Unless his vision was always to set 80% of his futuristic time travel movie on a boring farm.
The farm part was horrid and boring.
It's what I am talking about - the movie feels very uneven, like a Suicide Squad - like it consists from different parts, which might work as a coherent story, but they don't work for building a coherent atmosphere or tonality.

[ABrown]

Yeah, I don't know who this person. When I saw the name, I thought maybe we were talking about this hot piece of...

[Vegita-San]

you know..conspiracy theory time.


Has this back lash against kelly tran just started? like as in full blown the last few days? Or has it been going on for the last year?

It seems that no one seems to have cared until this rumor broke that KK is being replaced. Do you think Tran was told to delete her account? Is it possible that the people going after her are paid disney people trying to create a narrative against the 'angry fans' and to use as leverage when and if KK leaves?

It all seems like remarkable deflection timing to me.

[sdp]

That girls instagram account being deleted because of harassment is likely true, but I think it's safe to say that it isn't a conspiracy to say that the media and TLJ fans are clinging to this as an argument as to why TLJ is actually good and that the "fans" are the poison.

They've been milking this to death, you know what I say? Tough ****, that girl wants to leave instagram then she should, the internet is full of trolls and you either deal with it or not, she's a grown woman. I saw no such movement towards George Lucas or Jake Lloyd who got it far worse than this girl could ever dream of.

It's clear that there are 3 different groups of people that back up the ideology that TLJ and Disney Star Wars is good:

Disney $$$ is all over the media in one way or another, I already read a report that someone said they had to give a positive review for TLJ or else they wouldn't be invited to future events, this strategy is very well known by Apple and it's no surprise with the powerhouse of properties that they now own that they have this leverage again that they lost for a while

The political agenda people who aren't real fans and just want to support the progressive agenda that the current administration is putting in their films. Now I don't think the political agenda is too damaging to the brand, but the people calling other sexists/racists for not liking something is creating division in the fandom and you can even tell they're not fans.

The hardcore SW nerds who would support anything with SW on its name no matter what, to them the franchise can do no wrong so they'll defend it at no cost. These aren't the prequel haters, they loved them as well and bought all the merchandise even if they might have joined the complaints. I guess we can also include the Prequel haters here who love that Disney SWs is all pandering towards the OT. And you can also include here the SW fans who genuinely enjoyed the movie because well people like different things, but I'm guessing this is a minority.

These 3 groups together are the ones that have kept the dialog that TLJ is actually good and Disney is managing the franchise perfectly. But the cat is out of the bag, the majority of people disliked TLJ and are now seeing the flaws in Disney SW, this actually began after Rogue One when people started disecting more and more TFA and they realized they had been gypped into the same setting. I had thought that by now they had realized they couldn't win but now they're trying desperately to double down with this Instagram deletion "nontroversy" to put the blame on "bad fans" and that "Star Wars is better than ever".

I can confidently say that there more than half that hate the direction the franchise is going and this includes casual fans and hardcore fans regardless of the political stance that we have. So even those 3 groups together cannot stop the dialog anymore. Let's see if they double down on their current crappy strategy or somehow try to straighten the ship into the right direction. They already f-cked up the sequel trilogy beyond any repair but they might still be able to salvage the franchise as a whole.

[Andrew NDB]

I think Disney is spending the same marketing dollars Sony did in manifesting the narrative to "help" insulate the all-female Ghostbusters movie from criticism. "If you hate new Star Wars, then you're a MISOGYNIST and a basement dwelling TROLL! Look, Kelly Marie Tran gave up her Instagram account because the bullying was so bad, that's how bad the new Star Wars haters are!" Please.

Kelly Marie Tran instead of Leslie Jones (though KMT isn't fighting back, stoking the fires).

[Sumac]

This tactic didn't save "Fembusters", so if movie isn't good all their "moneys" would be spend in vain.

[Andrew NDB]

This tactic didn't save "Fembusters", so if movie isn't good all their "moneys" would be spend in vain.

Think back to when Disney bought Star Wars and suddenly, about a month after it was completed... there was about a million articles about "Maybe the prequels aren't so bad?" and "SW ring theory" and all of that, out of nowhere.

They're working the only angle they can to try and keep the dirt off their brand.

[plastroncafe]

That girls instagram account being deleted because of harassment is likely true, but I think it's safe to say that it isn't a conspiracy to say that the media and TLJ fans are clinging to this as an argument as to why TLJ is actually good and that the "fans" are the poison.

They've been milking this to death, you know what I say? Tough ****, that girl wants to leave instagram then she should, the internet is full of trolls and you either deal with it or not, she's a grown woman. I saw no such movement towards George Lucas or Jake Lloyd who got it far worse than this girl could ever dream of.


If you didn't see support for Lucas or Lloyd, it's because you weren't looking hard enough. Watching how this fandom has reacted in the wake of the newest Trilogy, has made me really glad I'm not part of that fandom.

It's nothing but vitriol, and no true Scotsman.

[Vegita-San]

I think Disney is spending the same marketing dollars Sony did in manifesting the narrative to "help" insulate the all-female Ghostbusters movie from criticism. "If you hate new Star Wars, then you're a MISOGYNIST and a basement dwelling TROLL! Look, Kelly Marie Tran gave up her Instagram account because the bullying was so bad, that's how bad the new Star Wars haters are!" Please.

Kelly Marie Tran instead of Leslie Jones (though KMT isn't fighting back, stoking the fires).

The prevailing theory is that feig wrote most of the insulting tweets himself and then jones fired back at them before 'leaving' twitter.

if you look further into this one, apparently kelly didn't leave due to 'bullies' but left due to stress. maybe disney was pressuring her to go along with this and she didn't like it, because apparently the press has been trying to contact her about it but she has gone radio silent. at least this is what I Heard during a live podcast, so take it with a grain of salt.

but, it wouldn't surprise me at this point. I will never understand why studios will let someone destroy a brand just for political reasons that they themselves believe in. it makes ZERO sense from an investor and money earning stand point.

[Sumac]

If you didn't see support for Lucas or Lloyd, it's because you weren't looking hard enough. Watching how this fandom has reacted in the wake of the newest Trilogy, has made me really glad I'm not part of that fandom.

It's nothing but vitriol, and no true Scotsman.
Being part of the fandom doesn't automatically make you bad person, neither it makes you complicit and whatever bad things they are doing.
But good job at being progressive and not generalizing. :D

[sdp]

Wait what? How the heck was Rey not the main Jedi?

Well in context with the rest of the paragraph, I wanted Rey to be the main Jedi among other Jedi, not that she would be the last Jedi which is something that already happened in the OT. With that said, she took the backseat to Han Solo in TFA and to Kylo Ren/Luke in TLJ.


If you didn't see support for Lucas or Lloyd, it's because you weren't looking hard enough. Watching how this fandom has reacted in the wake of the newest Trilogy, has made me really glad I'm not part of that fandom.

It's nothing but vitriol, and no true Scotsman.

Not to the extent that we're seeing with this girl who was so forgettable I don't even know the character's name, let alone the actress. All I remember was disliking her in the movie and that her toys are shelf warming everywhere.

What reaction? The fandom loved TFA, it wasn't until TLJ that they changed their opinion. It's odd that many visualize a star wars fan as this stereotypical fat virgin when it's the highest grossing movie series. The average fan is your average person. And the people on the "good side" of protecting this one girl are the same people who were the ones harassing Lucas and Lloyd.

The narrative that it's the fandom that's toxic and ruining Star Wars is simply the most ridiculous statement that mainstream "geek culture" blogs and social media activists are pulling. And they've been putting out a lot of ridiculous statements since the movie started getting blasted by fans.

Why were these FAKE geek culture blogs throwing dirt at Ben Affleck just a year ago after Batman v Superman and helping this hostility that has lead to the mess that is the DCEU now? I haven't even seen any examples of the so called harassment to this girl, which you would think they would screenshot and show people. And if they do this why don't they show the screen shots to other actors/directors who get the exact same treatment? I'm sure the social media of guys like Michael Bay are full of sh-t comments as well. Ridiculous, it's the internet, anyone can make an account and tell you to kill yourself. The internet isn't something new or a place to only get compliments and flowers.

[plastroncafe]

This isn't representative of my experience with the Star Wars fandom.
Now granted, the bulk of the people I interact with in that fandom are here, and the reaction to TFA was not overly positive at all.
And those who did view it positively were told that we weren't real fans anyway.

You may not have seen the abuse leveled at Kelly Tran, whose character was named Rose btw, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There's not a doubt in my mind that the average Star Wars fan doesn't fall into either category of vitriol or No True Scotsman, however...those are the ones speaking up, so those are the ones that get heard.

The internet doesn't have to be a place where any jerkoff can make an account and tell another person to die, but it is because the silent majority of folks don't stand up and tell the jerkoffs to go somewhere else.
And so you get the overwhelming public perception that fans of Star Wars are mouth breathing basement dwellers.

The fandom has no one to blame but themselves for that assessment.
If they're not going to police their own, then this is what happens.
And what's worse, it turns into a slippery slope.
Verbal abuse online can all too easily turn into abuse offline.

And that's when we find ourselves with threads in the Current Events section.

[sdp]

I'm not denying it didn't happen, I'm well aware with how the internet is, just that it may be overblown. The internet the way it is is a necessary evil and people need to learn that. This same anonymity that grants trolls a voice is the same formula that has made the internet become the awesome thing that it is. If you aren't fit for the internet then that's fine but don't get shade the sun because it can cause cancer if you don't know how to deal with it yourself. But this is a whole different argument than Star Wars and has nothing to do with it, which why it's just propaganda to blame fans for their mistakes in making bad movies. The discussion of internet etiquette is whole different thing, it has nothing to do with fandom, and yes any fandom is toxic but not in the way this is being spun to make Disney Star Wars somehow a victim.

Response to TFA was totally positive, I got so much hate and called so many names for even daring to speak out against Episode 7. I'd say 95% loved it, we who disliked it were a small minority and we took a lot of crap for it. What about the abuse I got? Ironically the people defending the acress of Rose are the same people who took shots at me for disagreeing with them in the first place.


But sine no one is going to budge on this I'll ask a different question that i brought up already:

How can Lucasfilm change Star Wars if Kathleen leaves? Can they get you back on board?


I have to admit that I thought I was done with the franchise, it was no longer for me. But I realize I still like the universe a lot. I feel a lot of damage has been done to the saga with the Sequel Trilogy but maybe they can keep it fresh by doing something totally different set many years before or after? Maybe not releasing so many movies? I don't know, I can't think of any idea that really excites me even if different but I keep reading Star Wars news from time to time so obviously I'm not ready to give up on it either.

[Vegita-San]

what I find interesting is the people who claim to have followed tran for a while.
what has she done before star wars that was even noteable? very few people even know who she is OUTSIDE star wars.


For me, first they'd have to re instate legends. they'd have to bring the old authors back and can these new cheap versions.

They'd have to TOTALLY trash anything related to 7 8 and 9 from history. gone. the kathleen kennedy saga is erased.

They'd have to REDO 7 8 and 9. make it animated if you have to. show the fans that you know you screwed up. made a bad judgment and will never do that again. and even that won't bring some back. the bad taste will always be there.

[Sumac]

This isn't representative of my experience with the Star Wars fandom.
Maybe you are just interacting with the ****** people?
Or maybe there is another explanation? :lol:

The fandom has no one to blame but themselves for that assessment.
If they're not going to police their own, then this is what happens.
And what's worse, it turns into a slippery slope.
Verbal abuse online can all too easily turn into abuse offline.

And that's when we find ourselves with threads in the Current Events section.
Fandom is not a monolithic organism who have some kind of supreme commander to order them around.
I am not really sure what this logic should work - how fandom should police itself? You are talking about thousands people all across the world.

[Vegita-San]

Maybe you are just interacting with the ****** people?
Or maybe there is another explanation? :lol:

.

maybe if they are getting this same reaction all the time, maybe it's them.... :trolleye:

more theory.

eeOPUFC2LQk

[NinjaPug]

Interesting article from one of the trades:

Toxic Fandom Is Killing 'Star Wars'
6:30 AM PDT 6/11/2018 by Marc Bernardin

Racist harassment of 'Last Jedi' star Kelly Marie Tran and the 'Solo' backlash: Lucasfilm’s problem isn’t the movies, it’s trolls who want only the nostalgia of their youth, like "old Luke Skywalker hiding on an island from everything new," writes columnist Marc Bernardin.

Fandom has always been an us versus them proposition. In the early days, it was because you loved something that the world at large found silly, be it comic books or Doctor Who. It was you, and those who felt like you, against everyone else. Star Wars redefined fandom because it built a bigger tent than had ever existed before. Suddenly, the "everyone else" also loved Star Wars. Your mom knew what The Force was. Mark Hamill was on The Tonight Show. There was Yoda underwear. It was the first real “fan” thing that exploded into a phenomenon. But fandom always needs a “them.”

Star Wars is in an interesting place right now. The most recent film, Solo: A Star Wars Story, has been drastically underperforming at the box office. After two weeks in release, it had pulled in a mere $271 million worldwide. Analysts believe Disney will lose $50 million or more on the film, and Solo comes on the heels of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, which-despite making $1.3 billion worldwide—proved itself an incredibly divisive film. While critics loved it (judging by the 91 percent score on Rotten Tomatoes), fans were split.

Some loved the bold liberties of writer-director Rian Johnson. They understood that there was room under that big tent for characters like Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) and Rose Tico (Kelly Marie Tran), women placed—alongside Carrie Fisher’s Leia and Ridley’s Rey—at the center of the Star Wars drama.

But others hated it. Hated everything it stood for. Hated what they saw as a social justice warrior remix of the Star Wars they grew up with. And they hated Tran’s Rose most of all because they decided that she was the avatar for all that was wrong with the franchise. Those fans — a minority but a loud one — found their “them” in the very thing they used to love.

Those who chose this particular vein of the Dark Side, emboldened by the faceless intoxication of the internet, went hard on Tran. Racist invective, misogyny, rape and death threats, all hurled at her constantly, unrelentingly, transforming what had been a Cinderella story — The Last Jedi was Tran’s first major film —into a modern-day nightmare. On June 4, she all but quit social media, stripping everything from her Instagram save for a profile picture and a bio that says “Afraid, but still doing it anyway.”

(It shouldn’t go unnoticed that when this stripe of fan decides they don’t like a new take on an old favorite, they level their hate on the woman of color. Leslie Jones bore the brunt of the backlash to the 2016 reboot of Ghostbusters and the racist, sexually violent tweets she got also caused her to withdraw from social media to find her balance.)

All of this begs the question: What exactly do Star Wars fans want? For so long, all they were asking for was more. It was 16 years between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace, and then 10 years between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens. Just getting Star Wars on the big screen was enough … at first. But then fans wheeled on the prequels: too much Jar Jar, too convoluted. (The vitriol was strong enough to chase Lucas away from directing and perhaps from Star Wars altogether.)

When J.J. Abrams signed on for The Force Awakens and built his narrative around a young woman with The Force and her black friend, it triggered the anti-SJW brigades. (Never mind it also gave them Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia, and a pair of familiar droids.) The #BoycottEpisodeVII hashtag spread, targeting Ridley and John Boyega, though it probably had more headlines than effect, as the film topped $2 billion worldwide.

But if The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were too progressive for some fans, why didn’t they comfort themselves in the warm blanket of Solo, co-written by Star Wars standard bearer Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Lucas’ Willow collaborator Ron Howard? It should’ve been everything they wanted in the prequels they didn’t get, without the “too many ladies and people of color” issues they claimed hurt the new films. But judging by the gross, they didn’t want Solo either.

What is Star Wars fandom against? Turns out, the answer: itself. Or, rather, the realization that Star Wars is and always has been for children, and they aren’t children any more. Star Wars fans — I count myself among them — look to the original trilogy as an anchor of youth. They want anything Star Wars to make them feel the way they did when they saw “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away …” roll across the screen 40 years ago.

No diehard fan wants to imagine himself as old Luke Skywalker, hiding on an island from everything new, anything that might shake his steadfast belief in how the world is supposed to be. But if you saw the original Star Wars in the theater, that’s who you are, unless you find a way to open yourself to heroes designed to hook a new generation while still resonating with yours. Those who haven’t are lashing out at everything that reminds them that they’re no longer young Luke, staring off into the horizon of a future still dawning, like twin suns.

They are forgetting the very things that spoke to them about Star Wars in the first place—and the warnings of a little green puppet about the perils of anger.

Marc Bernardin is a former THR editor and a comic book and television writer whose credits include Hulu's upcoming Castle Rock. He also co-hosts the Fatman on Batman podcast with Kevin Smith.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/solo-box-office-results-kelly-marie-tran-harassment-show-star-wars-has-a-fan-problem-1118898?__twitter_impression=true

[plastroncafe]

Surely this is just another one of those "FAKE" fan writers from the "FAKE" geek blogs that we've been hearing so much about, and as such can't be trusted.

I mean, what even are this person's credentials.

[Vegita-San]

If it's only trolls who only want the nostalgia of their youth, then how come the force awakens hasn't aged well in the publics mind? that was basically one big episode 4 call back, just like everything lucasfilm has done. unless they want to remind us that they are trying to 'kill the past'.

There is also an alternate version of that article that started it all, titled 'star wars has a toxic white male fan problem.'

The toxicity isn't coming from the fans....it's coming from lucasfilm itself. all their employees are blaming fans left and right..in what was a relatively happy fan base before the dark times. Don't like the force awakens? you are afraid of powerful women, you basement dwelling white man babies. they actually say stuff like this direct from JJ himself. can you imagine the crap storm if any other race was placed in that statement?

and people wonder why fans are angry at this point. people of all races and genders and walks of life are finally seeing what lucasfilm is trying to do, and they've had enough. you are basically taking away something that an entire generation of people enjoyed the way it was....and turning it into something it's not.

yeah, people are not going to be happy.

[sdp]

That article is the perfect example of FAKE mainstream geek culture blog I constantly mention. It tries to create a narrative to fit their personal opinions without actually understanding geek culture.

It's still trying to continue the narrative that it's not the franchise's fault, it's the fans fault. And to justify this they throw in a bunch of excuses in that very article and see what fits, anything from "it's for kids" and even "you are afraid of change" and "you hate women/minority" for good measure and no one dares to challenge your views.

It's just for kids? Yeah, I know, I love Jar Jar and the Ewoks and don't mind that the story is basically good vs evil. Yeah there can be more serious takes but a lighter story is no problem for me.

I'm afraid of change? It's the exact opposite, I"m tired that these movies are all pandering to the OT when I want to see NEW stories. I genuinely got super excited during TLJ with the whole "Let the Past Die", I thought they would fix their mistakes, Rey joining Kylo and forming this new alliance of no Jedi or Sith seemed something new and interesting. Instead by the end of the movie we were back to Empire V Jedi.

You don't like Women/Minorities? I love women, Admiral Holdo (and as a Jurassic Park fan you know I love Laura Dern) and Rose are horrible characters, they suck. I only know their names because I'm copying and pasting. I love Rey as an idea, it's too bad she's being written as a Mary Sue who already knows everything and is boring. Finn is a great addition, too bad he hasn't done any progress since The Force Awakening since he even had to re-learn the lessons and they even took away his love interest because a black man can't be with a white woman. Who is the racist now?


And whose writing these articles? The same people who bashed the prequels and did worse things to the fandom since then, who is the one bringing toxicity to the franchise? You like the film? NO PROBLEM but don't tell others they're wrong. You don't see me telling people they're wrong for not liking Godzilla 1998.

[plastroncafe]

Well that one in particular was written by Marc Bernardin

...a former THR editor and a comic book and television writer whose credits include Hulu's upcoming Castle Rock. He also co-hosts the Fatman on Batman podcast with Kevin Smith

I guess there's no greater fake geek content generator than the guy who co-hosts a podcast with Kevin Smith.

[Andrew NDB]

Interesting article from one of the trades:

Toxic Fandom Is Killing 'Star Wars'
6:30 AM PDT 6/11/2018 by Marc Bernardin

Racist harassment of 'Last Jedi' star Kelly Marie Tran and the 'Solo' backlash: Lucasfilm’s problem isn’t the movies, it’s trolls who want only the nostalgia of their youth, like "old Luke Skywalker hiding on an island from everything new," writes columnist Marc Bernardin.

Fandom has always been an us versus them proposition. In the early days, it was because you loved something that the world at large found silly, be it comic books or Doctor Who. It was you, and those who felt like you, against everyone else. Star Wars redefined fandom because it built a bigger tent than had ever existed before. Suddenly, the "everyone else" also loved Star Wars. Your mom knew what The Force was. Mark Hamill was on The Tonight Show. There was Yoda underwear. It was the first real “fan” thing that exploded into a phenomenon. But fandom always needs a “them.”

Star Wars is in an interesting place right now. The most recent film, Solo: A Star Wars Story, has been drastically underperforming at the box office. After two weeks in release, it had pulled in a mere $271 million worldwide. Analysts believe Disney will lose $50 million or more on the film, and Solo comes on the heels of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, which-despite making $1.3 billion worldwide—proved itself an incredibly divisive film. While critics loved it (judging by the 91 percent score on Rotten Tomatoes), fans were split.

Some loved the bold liberties of writer-director Rian Johnson. They understood that there was room under that big tent for characters like Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) and Rose Tico (Kelly Marie Tran), women placed—alongside Carrie Fisher’s Leia and Ridley’s Rey—at the center of the Star Wars drama.

But others hated it. Hated everything it stood for. Hated what they saw as a social justice warrior remix of the Star Wars they grew up with. And they hated Tran’s Rose most of all because they decided that she was the avatar for all that was wrong with the franchise. Those fans — a minority but a loud one — found their “them” in the very thing they used to love.

Those who chose this particular vein of the Dark Side, emboldened by the faceless intoxication of the internet, went hard on Tran. Racist invective, misogyny, rape and death threats, all hurled at her constantly, unrelentingly, transforming what had been a Cinderella story — The Last Jedi was Tran’s first major film —into a modern-day nightmare. On June 4, she all but quit social media, stripping everything from her Instagram save for a profile picture and a bio that says “Afraid, but still doing it anyway.”

(It shouldn’t go unnoticed that when this stripe of fan decides they don’t like a new take on an old favorite, they level their hate on the woman of color. Leslie Jones bore the brunt of the backlash to the 2016 reboot of Ghostbusters and the racist, sexually violent tweets she got also caused her to withdraw from social media to find her balance.)

All of this begs the question: What exactly do Star Wars fans want? For so long, all they were asking for was more. It was 16 years between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace, and then 10 years between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens. Just getting Star Wars on the big screen was enough … at first. But then fans wheeled on the prequels: too much Jar Jar, too convoluted. (The vitriol was strong enough to chase Lucas away from directing and perhaps from Star Wars altogether.)

When J.J. Abrams signed on for The Force Awakens and built his narrative around a young woman with The Force and her black friend, it triggered the anti-SJW brigades. (Never mind it also gave them Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia, and a pair of familiar droids.) The #BoycottEpisodeVII hashtag spread, targeting Ridley and John Boyega, though it probably had more headlines than effect, as the film topped $2 billion worldwide.

But if The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were too progressive for some fans, why didn’t they comfort themselves in the warm blanket of Solo, co-written by Star Wars standard bearer Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Lucas’ Willow collaborator Ron Howard? It should’ve been everything they wanted in the prequels they didn’t get, without the “too many ladies and people of color” issues they claimed hurt the new films. But judging by the gross, they didn’t want Solo either.

What is Star Wars fandom against? Turns out, the answer: itself. Or, rather, the realization that Star Wars is and always has been for children, and they aren’t children any more. Star Wars fans — I count myself among them — look to the original trilogy as an anchor of youth. They want anything Star Wars to make them feel the way they did when they saw “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away …” roll across the screen 40 years ago.

No diehard fan wants to imagine himself as old Luke Skywalker, hiding on an island from everything new, anything that might shake his steadfast belief in how the world is supposed to be. But if you saw the original Star Wars in the theater, that’s who you are, unless you find a way to open yourself to heroes designed to hook a new generation while still resonating with yours. Those who haven’t are lashing out at everything that reminds them that they’re no longer young Luke, staring off into the horizon of a future still dawning, like twin suns.

They are forgetting the very things that spoke to them about Star Wars in the first place—and the warnings of a little green puppet about the perils of anger.

Marc Bernardin is a former THR editor and a comic book and television writer whose credits include Hulu's upcoming Castle Rock. He also co-hosts the Fatman on Batman podcast with Kevin Smith.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/solo-box-office-results-kelly-marie-tran-harassment-show-star-wars-has-a-fan-problem-1118898?__twitter_impression=true

http://www.highlander-community.com/money.jpg

https://www.simplemost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/16431673252_3ce4b48351_house-plant1.jpg

[sdp]

If I knew it had been written by Kevin Smith I wouldn't even have read the article as I already would've known it was trash. He's out of touch for the most part.

Liking nerdy things doesn't make you a "nerd" or knowing nerdy things doesn't make you a "better nerd". This is what's wrong with modern geek culture. Now I understand how goths felt like in the 80s and their culture went mainstream.

[plastroncafe]

Read it again, Kevin Smith is not the name on the byline.
But I do think it's really funny that you're trying to fake geek Kevin Smith.

It's like watching baby queers try to explain Stonewall to someone who threw a bottle at the riot.

[Vegita-San]

didn't that article start with scott mendleson?

then it got picked up and 'rewritten' by the 'main stream' 'geek' blogs.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sci-fi in general seems to be going off the rails this decade...

Doctor Who goes female, a lot of fans revolt while a lot of defenders circle the wagons and cry mysogny. Star Wars does the same, but with exceptionally more controversy. Even Star Trek, with the failed JJ Abrams cinematic series and Discovery...

My takeaway from this is that sci-fi franchises are being reinvented and rebooted to try to appeal to more liberal, female-friendly audiences... but that the stories being used to do this are failing.

Would everybody be this pissed off about Star Wars if Episode 7 hadn't been a New Hope Remix, and if Episode 8 hadn't spat in the face of the previous movie's plot threads while also making extremely controversial choices about Luke? Or if Rose's character arc was exceptionally poorly written? (That last moment with her potentially sacrificing the entire Rebellion to save one person... nobody can reasonably defend that choice.)

Would the "Old Guard" of Trek be pissed off if the Klingons hadn't been needlessly revamped, with the entire story squeezed in ten years before the Original Series? With idealogical choices that fly in the face of Star Trek's known ideals?

For a lot of fans (not all), the problem isn't the female face of the franchises; it's the poor writing and the seemingly soulless cashing in.

[plastroncafe]

Star Trek is an interesting one because it started out as progressive and inclusive by Design. The darker Edge to the Federation wasn't new to Discovery, we saw many hints of that in DS9.

Whereas NuTrek was more of an action movie than sci-fi, and I always got the feeling that was done because trek has this geeky history that Abrams was trying to separate it from.
And that's not even getting into the fact that the female uniforms of a military organization lacked rank insignias...

The folks I know who are the most die-hard whovians grudgingly admit that it is Canon for time Lords to regenerate as a different gender. They just don't like the doctor being female.

I think the issue here is that everybody isn't pissed off about all of these things, some fans are.

For instance, Rose's sacrifice at the end of the movie was dumb, but I think that was the point. That movie was all about deconstructing the Hail Mary play. How selfish behaving that way in a time of war is.

[sdp]

Read it again, Kevin Smith is not the name on the byline.
But I do think it's really funny that you're trying to fake geek Kevin Smith.

It's like watching baby queers try to explain Stonewall to someone who threw a bottle at the riot.

If I knew it had been written by Kevin Smith I wouldn't even have read the article as I already would've known it was trash. He's out of touch for the most part.

Liking nerdy things doesn't make you a "nerd" or knowing nerdy things doesn't make you a "better nerd". This is what's wrong with modern geek culture. Now I understand how goths felt like in the 80s and their culture went mainstream.

"mainstream/fake" geeks can still like nerdy things but they don't understand it like say a fan of Good Charlotte likes Punk culture but doesn't understand it. That doesn't mean she's any less of a fan of Punk, but for her to lecture someone on what Punk is, is just not going to fly.

And just because you like the Ramones when they played in small venues doesn't mean your opinion is any better than the average person. The Punk Subculture is not defined by the opinions of casual fans or the first fans. That's my point.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Star Trek is an interesting one because it started out as progressive and inclusive by Design. The darker Edge to the Federation wasn't new to Discovery, we saw many hints of that in DS9.

Whereas NuTrek was more of an action movie than sci-fi, and I always got the feeling that was done because trek has this geeky history that Abrams was trying to separate it from.
And that's not even getting into the fact that the female uniforms of a military organization lacked rank insignias...

The folks I know who are the most die-hard whovians grudgingly admit that it is Canon for time Lords to regenerate as a different gender. They just don't like the doctor being female.

I think the issue here is that everybody isn't pissed off about all of these things, some fans are.

For instance, Rose's sacrifice at the end of the movie was dumb, but I think that was the point. That movie was all about deconstructing the Hail Mary play. How selfish behaving that way in a time of war is.

The darker edge to the Federation in Deep Space 9 was not to the same extent or the same focus as Discovery, though. In DS9, it was to be actively fought against. In Discovery, it's the main characters and almost always shown to be the smart play.

And Time Lords/Ladies being able to regenerate across gender was only recently introduced, by Stephen Moffat. With a clear intent to be used for the Doctor a few years later... a Checkov's Gun, if you will.

I'm not arguing for or against any of these franchises' new directions at the moment; I'm simply trying to point out that the majority of the backlash I've personally experienced or read online is not sexist in nature. The sexist voices are heard loudest, though, because that's more newsworthy--and it also enables the current production teams to ignore their actual issues or deficiencies.

[Vegita-San]

which I wonder if this is the real heart of the issue.

the Actual new crop of millenial people coming into power not being able to take criticism on their work. and the older people in charge using that to their advantage to push controversy and fast advertising?

[plastroncafe]

The darker edge to the Federation in Deep Space 9 was not to the same extent or the same focus as Discovery, though. In DS9, it was to be actively fought against. In Discovery, it's the main characters and almost always shown to be the smart play.

And Time Lords/Ladies being able to regenerate across gender was only recently introduced, by Stephen Moffat. With a clear intent to be used for the Doctor a few years later... a Checkov's Gun, if you will.

I'm not arguing for or against any of these franchises' new directions at the moment; I'm simply trying to point out that the majority of the backlash I've personally experienced or read online is not sexist in nature. The sexist voices are heard loudest, though, because that's more newsworthy--and it also enables the current production teams to ignore their actual issues or deficiencies.

I haven't seen all of Discovery yet, because I couldn't be arsed to pay CBS for their programming, but now that it's done I might sign up for the free trial. That said, DS9 showed the moral quandary as moral quandary because the lead character was a man with ALL the scruples.
That doesn't seem to be the case with Discovery.

The BBC site seems to indicate that discussion of a female Doctor was something that was batted around as far back as Baker's time, but more recently was it given the g'head.

And I think it bears some consideration that the sexist voices are now heard the loudest not only because they make good click bait, but also because the people who've heard them the longest have the means by which to communicate with each other.

[BartAllen]

My tippy top most favorite sci fi character is Ellen Ripley. No one even approaches her level. The female characters that we're seeing in modern movies are ****ing trash. The modern female character are poorly conceived, poorly written caricatures. The problem isn't misogyny. The problem is BAD MOVIES. The fans are right to rebel.

The Last Jedi stank on ice and so did Solo (parts were alright).

I guess it's just easier to blame some boogeyman instead of taking responsibility for making bad decisions.

To be fair, there is a segment of the fandom that is disgustingly sexist. That segment is a small FRACTION OF A FRACTION of the overall audience. The majority of the people that dislike the Star Wars movies dislike them because they're bad. THEY'RE BAD!

[Andrew NDB]

https://zippy.gfycat.com/PolishedDesertedArmyworm.gif

[plastroncafe]

My tippy top most favorite sci fi character is Ellen Ripley. No one even approaches her level. The female characters that we're seeing in modern movies are ****ing trash. The modern female character are poorly conceived, poorly written caricatures. The problem isn't misogyny. The problem is BAD MOVIES. The fans are right to rebel.

Ripley was written as a man.
Ridley Scott made Ripley into Ellen Ripley because, “I just had a thought. What would you think if Ripley was a woman? She would be the last one you would think would survive—she’s beautiful.”
8 Great Female Roles That Were Originally Written for Men (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/female-characters-written-for-men) (vanity fair)

I'm not discounting the idea that bad movies exist, or that movies created using a checklist are soulless and dull.
I just think discounting misogyny out-of-hand as a factor is short-sighted, and in the case of Ripley...ubiquitous.

I mean, the creator of Alien did something UNHEARD of, he let a beautiful woman survive.

[Sumac]

AKSUALLY, all characters in Alien were supposedly written as unisex.
Link (http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html)

CAST OF CHARACTERS

CHAZ STANDARD,
Captain.................A leader and a politician. Believes that
any action is better than no action.

MARTIN ROBY,
Executive Officer.......Cautious but intelligent -- a survivor.

DELL BROUSSARD,
Navigator...............Adventurer; brash glory-hound.

SANDY MELKONIS,
Communications..........Tech Intellectual; a romantic.

CLEAVE HUNTER,
Mining Engineer.........High-strung; came along to make his
fortune.

JAY FAUST,
Engine Tech.............A worker. Unimaginative.

The crew is unisex and all parts are interchangeable for men or women.

[Candy Kappa]

I was under the impression that Martin Roby was originally meant to be a guy while the rest of the crew could be either men or women, guess I remember wrong then.

[Vegita-San]

this might also have something to do with the reason for her leaving. that is REALLY pitiful for a star wars release. if they where even lower in the ten million range, she'd probably be gone now.

so much for those bad reviews being just bot related, huh?

>>>
Figures for US Blu-ray:

TFA (3 weeks): Total earnings $102,564,608
TLJ (3 weeks): Total earnings $45,052,396 >>

[Vegita-San]

hmmm....some good points.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31712/no-star-wars-isnt-failing-because-hateful-trolls-ben-shapiro

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

hmmm....some good points.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31712/no-star-wars-isnt-failing-because-hateful-trolls-ben-shapiro

Damn. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

Not at all written from an unbiased perspective, but damned if I don't agree with that.

[Andrew NDB]

hmmm....some good points.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31712/no-star-wars-isnt-failing-because-hateful-trolls-ben-shapiro

Not a bad article and I agree with most of it. He sort of lost me here, though:

"That’s because Kennedy had two choices upon being granted the helm of the Star Wars universe: (1) fast-forward fifty years, beyond the original characters, and reboot, losing the nostalgia of the original characters but gaining freshness; (2) recast the original characters and pick up where Return of the Jedi left off. Instead, in fully risk averse fashion, she chose door (3): leech off the nostalgia while introducing new characters a few years in the future. "

What? Why would #1 be one of the two only options? 50 years forward, like twice as long as between the first two trilogies? Why? #2, the opposite -- recast the original characters and pick up where Return of the Jedi left off... and have no gap at all between trilogies? Weird!

#3 was the soundest of the doors... she just needed to not do a remake and actually have at least a very basic plan for the trilogy, not made up on the fly.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not a bad article and I agree with most of it. He sort of lost me here, though:

"That’s because Kennedy had two choices upon being granted the helm of the Star Wars universe: (1) fast-forward fifty years, beyond the original characters, and reboot, losing the nostalgia of the original characters but gaining freshness; (2) recast the original characters and pick up where Return of the Jedi left off. Instead, in fully risk averse fashion, she chose door (3): leech off the nostalgia while introducing new characters a few years in the future. "

What? Why would #1 be one of the two only options? 50 years forward, like twice as long as between the first two trilogies? Why? #2, the opposite -- recast the original characters and pick up where Return of the Jedi left off... and have no gap at all between trilogies? Weird!

#3 was the soundest of the doors... she just needed to not do a remake and actually have at least a very basic plan for the trilogy, not made up on the fly.

Agreed. #3 was a good plan, it has just been very poorly executed.

And everybody knew from Day One that Han Solo would be killed off... Harrison Ford wanted him dead in Return of the Jedi, how do you think Star Wars talked the man into returning to the series? :tlol:

[Vegita-San]

maybe the author thought that at the time, there was no chance you'd get the big three to come back and was speculating options on what they could do? who knows.... considering they got rid of the old EU, recasting everyone and picking up where 6 left off could have been on the table.

you know what is odd about this tran thing as well....

first, the timing of the story. it's coming out just as all this stuff about KK leaving did. second, I haven't seen evidence of these tweets yet. usually these articles like to screen shot them and parade them around.

when the feig/jones thing happened, those tweets where plastered everywhere. (possibly not odd if in fact feig was actually writing them as the theory suggests). has any of these articles actually screen shotted the harassment? or did it all get deleted magically with her account?

[sdp]

We now have some details on what Lucas' version of the Sequel Trilogy would've been:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfdltj1U8AEw2lN.jpg


We can blame it on all the hate the media and fans gave Lucas over the prequels that we didn't see it. It sounds weird but it's different and new, not a rehash, I would've loved to have seen it.

These are not the only details, from the art books of TFA and TLJ we can see that some ideas of these two movies were in the drafts of Episode VII. So Disney just took some ideas, stretched it out over two films and rehashed the OT for good measure.

The whills are an idea George has had in Star Wars since the initial drafts and have made spontaneous appearances so it's not something new. Apparently there's actually a reference to the whills in Rogue One.

[Krutch]

Oooooooh, I get it. The Whill of the Force. I getcha.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oooooooh, I get it. The Whill of the Force. I getcha.

So, if Anakin were a child of the Force, if we were to meet his father, would his name be Whill I Am?

...

I'll just show myself to the door...

[Vegita-San]

george focused way too much on the hate. If he had focused on the things people loved about the prequals he would have had a far more fun time.

The music was amazing. the visuals where top notch . the jedi and sith elements where awesome. coruscsant was a blast.

there where really only a few minor tweaks needed to get these movies up to legendary snuff and I think they would have been as appreciated as the OT over time.

[BartAllen]

george focused way too much on the hate. If he had focused on the things people loved about the prequals he would have had a far more fun time.

The music was amazing. the visuals where top notch . the jedi and sith elements where awesome. coruscsant was a blast.

there where really only a few minor tweaks needed to get these movies up to legendary snuff and I think they would have been as appreciated as the OT over time.

Personally, I still really love ROTS. I thought it was the best of the three prequels. I'd even say it's better than RTOJ.

[plastroncafe]

So, if Anakin were a child of the Force, if we were to meet his father, would his name be Whill I Am?

...

I'll just show myself to the door...

You are, yet again, a beacon of light in a very dark place.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You are, yet again, a beacon of light in a very dark place.

I said that exact thing to my wife last night, and she told me to turn off the lamp and finish the book in the morning.

[Sumac]

Anything would have been better than rehashed Rebellions against Empire with Mary Sue and hysterical child as the leads of the factions.

And I like me some "mystical" out there stuff.

[Vegita-San]

what are the chances all of this backlash against the fans is because of the bidding war between comcast and disney for fox assets? un happy fan base and weak handling of properties puts disney in a less desirable position, so they go on the offensive and actively attack everyone?

supposedly some fake positive reviews are now popping up on RT's, trying to drive the score up. all 5 star reviews.

[Sumac]

I don't think so.
Sounds like a conspiracy.

[Vegita-San]

probably. just saw that theory elsewhere and found it an interesting comparison.


although I still think that all this being a smoke screen for the KK article popping up being far more likely.

[sdp]

Apparently this rumor was false, the Rose controversy does seem like it was made to double down on the "we're doing nothing wrong narrative". And there are 9 movies in various stages of development so expect an annual movie for the next decade.

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/06/tom-kane-9-star-wars-movies-are-currently-in-development-no-plans-for-a-yoda-centric-project.html


DiipuSurotu
Member
Original Poster
#1
A new report from the floor of the Tysons Corners, Virginia All-Stars Comic Con includes an alleged statement by Tom Kane, who served as the voice actor for Yoda circa The Clone Wars. According to Kane, Lucasfilm is working on a ton of movies – but one starring the diminutive Jedi Master is not on the cards.

Frequent Star Wars podcaster Aaron Goins recently got a chance to speak with Kane at the ASCC, and while he was there, Kane told him that Lucasfilm isn’t even thinking about slowing down development on other projects after Solo struggled so much at the box office:

Tom Kane seems to be somewhat in the know but very hesitant to share.. claims there are at least 9 Star Wars films in various stages of development, some individual character stories yet to be announced, but definitely not Yoda
Episode IX
Spin Off (Fett?)
Rian Johnson film 1
Spin Off (Obi Wan?)
Rian Johnson film 2
Spin Off (More OT pandering)
Rian Johnson film 3
Spin Off (More OT pandering 2?)
Other Trilogy ?

[Sumac]

On one hand I understand desire to make as much money as possible, but can't Disney realize that oversaturation will lead to death of popularity?

[MikeandRaph87]

On one hand I understand desire to make as much money as possible, but can't Disney realize that oversaturation will lead to death of popularity?

The box office returns of Solo should have been proof of that. We don't need another trilogy after Episode 9.

[CyberCubed]

They'll keep going until they don't make any money.

[Vegita-San]

On one hand I understand desire to make as much money as possible, but can't Disney realize that oversaturation will lead to death of popularity?

marvel puts out alot of movies. and most of them are pretty good. doesn't hurt them alot.

the problem here, inexplicably, is that not alot of care is being put into these star wars movies. they seem to think, start with a basic plot, and everything else will work around it it. shoot as you go, including writing the script.

they don't realize that's not how good movies are made. it takes lots of planning and care to make something special.

[Sumac]

The things is Marvel franchises lend itself to different movies, from quasi-political thrillers like Captain America, to an outright slapstick comedy like an Ant-Man.

I don't think SW can have the same versatility, when it comes to the possible tone of the movies.

[Vegita-San]

maybe not slapstick. unless we want to have an entire movie with nothing but droids or jar jar..

[NinjaPug]

According to Collider all plans for future anthology standalone movies have been put on hold.

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Autbot_Benz]

According to Collider all plans for future anthology standalone movies have been put on hold.

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Thanks Disney for stopping the only Anthology Movie people actually wanted Obi Wan :roll:

[Sumac]

maybe not slapstick. unless we want to have an entire movie with nothing but droids or jar jar..
We already had it sort of, Christmas Special. :P

According to Collider all plans for future anthology standalone movies have been put on hold.

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I wonder what had happened.

[Vegita-San]

you know things are bad when a certain star wars investor starts resorting to name calling and losing his sanity even further than normal in posts in the span of a month. never thought I'd see him banned on that other forum.

Maybe there is some rumor to this kathleen kennedy mess and he's starting to get worried about his investment lol.

[NinjaPug]

What are you talking about?

[Vegita-San]

What are you talking about?

pay it no heed..as usual.

just a little personal in information from elsewhere that I found amusing today.
doing a little gloating.

move along

[NinjaPug]

pay it no heed..as usual.

just a little personal in information from elsewhere that I found amusing today.
doing a little gloating.

move along

Wait, you're just talking about some random poster you disagree with on some other message board that no one knows about? Sad.

[Vegita-San]

not entirely. this particular poster is supposedly a big disney investory. we don't know how big..but he's usually calm, and confident and insulting to any opinion he disagrees with.

over the past few weeks, he's started to loose his cool and get around to the point of down right degrading, and loosing all sense of logic in posts..which leads me to believe he's worried about his investment. if that's the case, all it took was the span of a month of rumors to ruin about 2 years of confidence and drive him post loopy. makes me think, at least, there might be more than enough truth to this rumor. at least I hope so :).

[Cure]

You're a strange little man.

[plastroncafe]

TMW someone else's schadenfreude becomes schadenfreude at their expense.

[Vegita-San]

interesting take. you can skip the last few minutes of channel shilling.

geg2i0Fa4XA

[MikeandRaph87]

I just read the news on halting side films. Give us Luke. Is that too much to ask?


Also, I could not help, but laugh at this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.avclub.com/this-fan-remake-of-the-last-jedi-is-totally-real-defin-1827031473/amp

[Vegita-San]

could be her days are finally numbered. but they need to TOTALLY clean house of anyone who thinks like her too for it to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoi1z_wlf-I
zoi1z_wlf-I

[NinjaPug]

could be her days are finally numbered. but they need to TOTALLY clean house of anyone who thinks like her too for it to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoi1z_wlf-I
zoi1z_wlf-I

I'm assuming this is the video from Grace Randolph. The second I saw this on another board I knew Veg would believe every word of it and post it here.

She is the definition of a clickbait hack. Her source is from Pinewood Studios? Hahahaha. That doesn't even make sense.

[Vegita-San]

this one is from geeks and gamers. as soon as I saw that lady, I remembered she was one of the mostly SJW type people and i only ever checked out one of her videos. iirc

nice to know i'm predictable like old faithful.

[Vegita-San]

was listening to a few live streams last night.

most are speculating that if they are looking for a replacement, that she's already fired.

this would be why we havn't heard from her publicly since solo started publicizing.

has anyone been able to find something from her recently?

[CyberCubed]

Vegita-san sounds like he has a scary obsession with this lady. When/if she leaves, Star Wars won't be any different. She also made more money than any of us will see in our lifetimes, so who cares?

[Leo656]

To some, on the other hand, it's beginning to appear that CyberCubed has a scary obsession with Vegita...

[Vegita-San]

To some, on the other hand, it's beginning to appear that CyberCubed has a scary obsession with Vegita...

what else is new? getting to be a little creepy too....and we can't ban this guy, why?

[Autbot_Benz]

what else is new? getting to be a little creepy too....and we can't ban this guy, why?

If we can't ban you Vegita why would be Ban Cybercubed :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

We can. We have. I was banned over Thursday Boy once, even.

[Leo656]

what else is new? getting to be a little creepy too....and we can't ban this guy, why?

For one thing, I have lots of pull and happen to be a huge CyberCubed fan. Although sometimes I question why.

Sorry guy.

[Vegita-San]

For one thing, I have lots of pull and happen to be a huge CyberCubed fan. Although sometimes I question why.

Sorry guy.

all you have to do is see how he treats people he dis agrees with, and you'll see why he needs to go. that, and if you want official tmnt members to hang around and not be chased away... ;o).

[newfan]

No-one wants to be banned and I imagine especially not over a personal feud.
Be it direct insults or talking about the other on threads, maybe best to lay off it a bit guys? Meant as a friendly suggestion.

[Vegita-San]

hey, i'm trying to let by gons be by gones....he's been on ignore for years. and I've not responded personally to him in at least 10 or more years.

yet, even other posters are starting to notice the weird 'your my enemy' type posts...he keeps this one sided thing going and that's the creepy part.

[MikeandRaph87]

For one thing, I have lots of pull and happen to be a huge CyberCubed fan. Although sometimes I question why.

Sorry guy.

I think you know why. Remember...http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i59/2/12/7/frabz-Leo656-and-CyberCubed-The-Technodromes-Skipper-and-Gilligan-71fc55.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

To some, on the other hand, it's beginning to appear that CyberCubed has a scary obsession with Vegita...

I liked it better when our bro had a hard-on for Melissa Benois... :tlol:

[Leo656]

all you have to do is see how he treats people he dis agrees with, and you'll see why he needs to go.

We agree on nothing that I'm aware of, but he amuses me for some reason.

I think you know why. Remember...http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i59/2/12/7/frabz-Leo656-and-CyberCubed-The-Technodromes-Skipper-and-Gilligan-71fc55.jpg

:lol: I'd never wear a hat.

I liked it better when our bro had a hard-on for Melissa Benois... :tlol:

:lol: I'm sure he still does. It's not like those pics of her f***in' ever got taken offline. That show of hers is dreck, but she's an A+. He's got okay taste in women, our boy Cubed. I won't argue that.

[MikeandRaph87]

You can wear a captain's seal then. Willy Cubed can wear a hat so he be hit with it the next time he mentions the passage of time since you have been marooned on the Technodrome. You guys do have a bit of the same dynamic.

[sdp]

Even without Keneddy things aren't going to change for the better, Disney is only interested in short term profits so they'll be milking the franchise for all its worth and stay in their safety net.

[Vegita-San]

anyway.... be smirching the name of poor gilligan aside,

andrew, theories on this? plant articles starting to surface?

supposedly kevin feige was rumored to take over lucasfilm, but i never heard this before. I hope not. marvel is i n a good place now. don't stretch out the talent. find new ones.
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/06/report-kevin-feige-wont-replace-kathleen-kennedy-at-lucasfilm-rian-johnsons-trilogy-will-proceed-as-planned.html

[MikeandRaph87]

Here is a good question, why do we need a new trilogy unrelated to the Skywalker family with Johnson in charge? Do the fans want it?

[plastroncafe]

Some do.
I being one of them.

As for why, because the Skywalkers aren't the only thing going on in that universe.
I mean, look how much of a fandom Boba Fett has, and he's barely got any lines.
Gonk Droids have fans.

Rogue One alone showed us what's possible in that shared universe.

[Vegita-San]

Here is a good question, why do we need a new trilogy unrelated to the Skywalker family with Johnson in charge? Do the fans want it?

nope, but cancelling it would admit they where wrong at this point, and god forbid a major studio does that

[MikeandRaph87]

nope, but cancelling it would admit they where wrong at this point, and god forbid a major studio does that

Just ask the DC Cinematic Universe.:P

I am sorry but my interest is the original trilogy cast.

[NinjaPug]

Here is a good question, why do we need a new trilogy unrelated to the Skywalker family with Johnson in charge? Do the fans want it?

I want it more than a standalone film about Kenobi or Boba Fett. I like that they're actually aporoaching this trilogy of films with a plan in place before they start filming the first movie. They should've done that before TFA.

[Vegita-San]

did they give any indication they actually HAVE a plan?

all they did, iirc, was announce his trilogy while his current movie was still going. that not only doesn't sound li ke a plan, but a reactionary action.

[MikeandRaph87]

edid they give any indication they actually HAVE a plan?

all they did, iirc, was announce his trilogy while his current movie was still going. that not only doesn't sound li ke a plan, but a reactionary action.

Yes, and after throwing out all the burning questions form The Force Awakens and treatment of Luke Skywalker I don't want Rian Jonson to do any more Star Wars.

We do need continuity with directors, but to have an overall plan before starting.

[Andrew NDB]

andrew, theories on this? plant articles starting to surface?

supposedly kevin feige was rumored to take over lucasfilm, but i never heard this before. I hope not. marvel is i n a good place now. don't stretch out the talent. find new ones.
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/06/report-kevin-feige-wont-replace-kathleen-kennedy-at-lucasfilm-rian-johnsons-trilogy-will-proceed-as-planned.html

I don't think Feige has any time to spare on fixing Star Wars. But maybe he could hand-pick basically a clone of himself to set them to rights. Whose name isn't Kathleen Kennedy.

Here is a good question, why do we need a new trilogy unrelated to the Skywalker family with Johnson in charge? Do the fans want it?

There's some general push for "Knights of the Old Republic" type stuff, so maybe? I think it's the kind of things that fans won't know they will be into until it's tried.

As for why, because the Skywalkers aren't the only thing going on in that universe.

As long as the episodic series itself continues the Skywalker line in some way. If it doesn't, I don't really see the point.

Rogue One alone showed us what's possible in that shared universe.

If by an overabundance of fan-service coupled with completely forgettable characters, a noticeably Frankensteined together final edit, and an ending that succeeds in only f***ing up the beginning of ANH... then I guess it's true.

But actually I watched Rogue One for the second time about a month ago and I found that I enjoyed it a lot more this time. Still pretty vapid entertainment.

did they give any indication they actually HAVE a plan?

Kind of. All the articles speak to "Rian Johnson is developing a trilogy" and not Rian Johnson is developing the first movie in a trilogy."

all they did, iirc, was announce his trilogy while his current movie was still going. that not only doesn't sound li ke a plan, but a reactionary action.

Yeah, it kind of struck me in the same way how whenever there's the first movie in an intended franchise still in theaters, suddenly there's articles about, "Part 2 and Part 3 are already greenlit!! Scripts are being written!!" The idea being to incept you into getting excited in seeing part 1 of some big saga.

[CyberCubed]

e

Yes, and after throwing out all the burning questions form The Force Awakens

They didn't abandon any burning questions from TFA, the only thing they didn't show is "The Knights of Ren" who I imagine will appear in Episode 9, and they just looked like Kylo Ren's personal guards or shock troops or whatever.

I'm sure they'll make dozens of comics/novels/cartoons about Snoke's rise to power and backstory for those who are interested. They always do that with characters who get little to no screentime in the actual movies.

[Sumac]

They didn't abandon any burning questions from TFA, the only thing they didn't show is "The Knights of Ren" who I imagine will appear in Episode 9, and they just looked like Kylo Ren's personal guards or shock troops or whatever.

I'm sure they'll make dozens of comics/novels/cartoons about Snoke's rise to power and backstory for those who are interested. They always do that with characters who get little to no screentime in the actual movies.
Irrelevant, because, it will look like a stupid attempt to feel void that should not be there in the first place. And most people won't read those comic books.

I don't really understand why people consider abandoning plots and questions of the past movie "good and amazing storytelling". Guess, they're enjoying fans of the series being pissed off for some reason. Guess, those reason are petty.

[CyberCubed]

I don't read the comics/novels either, but for the people curious it'll likely be revealed there. Just like they did the further adventures of Boba Fett, Bossk, what Luke did in the Rogue Squadron days, what Han did as a smuggler, what Darth Vader and Palpatine did for 30 years between the prequels and the original trilogy, etc.

All of it is just extra stories for hardcore fans, but obviously not essential information.

[Leo656]

((Raises hand))

I personally think that the guy who corrupted Luke's greatest pupil, and also re-opened the book of "Rebels vs. Empire" that was well and fully shut tightly after RotJ, is kind of important to the larger story. The between-movie adventures of a few other miscellaneous side characters is one thing, that could be resolved on-screen or not. But if you're going to re-set the board to the point where the movies and stories everyone grew up with may well have not have happened, because we're back where we started anyway, I think your fans and followers deserve a little bit more extrapolation than, "It all happened in a comic book that you're not going to read, that we may choose to completely ignore or overwrite later."

Some stories can be joined in media res without it hurting anything, but I strongly feel that leaving ALL of the connective tissue between the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy up to whether or not fans' bothered to read a bunch of "half-canon-at-best" books and stuff was a mistake, and it's not entirely playing fair with the audience. In fact, looking closely at the entire situation, one could be forgiven for accusing the new writers of simply not having any story mapped out for in-between trilogies. Because like it or not, they're not even trying to hide the fact anymore that a ton of the new material is being whipped up on the fly.

I feel like "Big Stuff" needs to actually take place in the movies, so everyone can see it and there's no debate as to its importance or place in canon. If it's in a comic book or novel, it's not actually canon. Stuff that's too important, like "Why the big Reset Button Between VI and VII?" shouldn't be left up in the air. The fact that earlier movies made decades ago when nobody knew if this "Star Wars" thing was gonna take off or not were also slapped together shouldn't excuse it when people who allegedly have a lot more on the ball are the ones responsible for these things. People are simply trying to hold them accountable for being shaky or amateurish in their storytelling, and those complaints are being dismissed by some as, "Well c'mon, it's Star Wars." I'd argue that Star Wars can be many things, but was never, until recently, a sloppily-told story.

But then, I've taken a bunch of writing and writing-related classes, so... I'unno. Some things jump out at me that others may forgive.

[newfan]

Agreed, I don't expect to have to read the comics for Star Wars. While some feel the story was told acceptably in the latest movie I'm with the people who wanted more around Snoke, after 7 I remember I being interested to see how.....never mind, cut in half already. Oh well.:lol:

[plastroncafe]

I kind of get the feeling that it didn't take a whole lot of effort to turn Ben Solo into Kylo Ren, which is why I'm not all that interested in Snoke.

He's a manipulator, and in this instance I just don't find him all that compelling.

[Candy Kappa]

The more you'll know about Snoke, the more boring he'll be. Just look at how Anakin was handled in the prequel movies, makes Darth Vader seem... less.

[Vegita-San]

The more you'll know about Snoke, the more boring he'll be. Just look at how Anakin was handled in the prequel movies, makes Darth Vader seem... less.

if you can't make your villain interesting with more back story, it's either a bad back story or a bad villain.

[plastroncafe]

Thinking like that is exactly why I expect there to be a prequel to Jaws at some point.

I don't think there's any back story they could give snoke that would please enough people to make a story worth telling.

I would very much like to see some fanfiction/headcanon stuff regarding snoke.
So let's hear your theories.

[newfan]

Yeah I get that sometimes the less mysterious a character the less interesting they can be, this came up when I was looking for more depth on the character from another movie, the writer thought the character was more scary with the less we knew. .. but still .. I want to know a bit more :lol:
So a balance of enough I suppose. I didn't need great detail on Snoke but wanted something more to him.
Rey not coming from possible bloodlines was interesting to some (me included there too) but others liked the direction they took.

[Candy Kappa]

Guy was a dark force using space nazi, He's basically Darth Sidious without the Darth title. What else is there to know really, except that golden bathrobe was glorious so his fashion sense was divine

[Spike Spiegel]

I'd actually read a Marvel Star Wars comic about Snoke.

Marvel's current TLJ adaptation has made the story from the film much more palatable thus far, especially with the addition of thought captions for Luke. At this time they are up to issue 4, and Rey has just been captured by Snoke.

[Andrew NDB]

Guy was a dark force using space nazi, He's basically Darth Sidious without the Darth title. What else is there to know really

There's a lot.

[Leo656]

See, it starts to feel like, "We just wanted to create a situation in which to give you New Characters. We don't really know what got us from Point A to Point B in the larger scheme of things, and that story isn't very interesting anyway. But Look! Shiny new characters!" People can say whatever they like about the quality of the Prequels, but there was a clear sense of how that trilogy fit with the original, and how the events of one directly affected the other.

Then everything gets reset, they more or less start saying "Nothing at all really mattered until Episode VII, plus the Skywalker family 'Destiny' storyline is now Rey's," and they don't expect people to ask too many questions about it. Well, they are, because they want people to "Just Accept" a lot.

Over six movies, fans watched the entire Rise and Fall of the Empire. If you're going to go back to Step One, and basically undo all the previous story, filling people in on what actually happened in-between is just a courtesy if nothing else, if for no other reason than to reinforce that the first six films aren't a giant waste of time, now. And if Snoke isn't a very interesting stand-in for the Emperor, and if people genuinely don't care what he did to pick up where Palpatine left off, that just means that they failed in their jobs to create a compelling character.

The fact that things that ARE important, and SHOULD be important, simply aren't important to a lot of people demonstrates a fundamental flaw in the storytelling. A guy who's essentially Palpatine 2.0 shouldn't be a throw-away gag villain. I mean, that's what we got, but that's not what should have happened.

[plastroncafe]

I'm very interested as to how the world we left in RotJ became TFA, in that I'm curious how things went so pear-shaped so quickly.
Did liberty die with thunderous applause?

But I'd prefer to be shown, rather than told.
And I think we see hints of how that happened with RO and the Casino Scene from TLJ.

The Empire may have fallen, but that doesn't mean that every person involved in the Empire died. And all you need is a handful of people in hiding to raise something from the dead.

I mean, there has to be balance in the force, right?
Nature abhors a vacuum.
If Yoda and Obi Wan survived, then surely some Sith did as well.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

All I can say is, having had the benefit of not being a huge Star Wars fan, doing a compare and contrast to the Expanded Universe of novels and comics versus the new Disney movies...

These new Disney movies are far more ineffective than the literature as anything other than a nostalgia-based cash grab, with shiny new actors and actresses. Very little effective writing that isn't calculated to trigger emotional responses based on previous affection for the films.

On the scale of cinematic universe effectiveness, I'd rank it below the DC film universe, far below the MCU, maybe on par with Transformers.

At best, it's big dumb action fun. Star Wars could and should be more than that.

The literature had some bungles like the Crystal Star, or the Black Fleet crisis, or Callista... but so far, the only real successes I can see by the films are killing Han Solo, Daisy Ridley, and Finn.

[Spike Spiegel]

There are some gold nuggets in the nu-EU...I've enjoyed a good majority of the novels and comics that I have seen over the past few years.

I hope the movies take a break for a while if there is some kind of big shake-up at Lucasfilm. They ought to let the fandom build organically and take in everything, like the gaps of time after the OT and PT. For instance, I don't care if Doctor Aphra from the Darth Vader comics never shows up in a film (considering their track record, it might do the character a disservice), but I'd love to see more about her in other media.

[Sumac]

I don't read the comics/novels either, but for the people curious it'll likely be revealed there. Just like they did the further adventures of Boba Fett, Bossk, what Luke did in the Rogue Squadron days, what Han did as a smuggler, what Darth Vader and Palpatine did for 30 years between the prequels and the original trilogy, etc.

All of it is just extra stories for hardcore fans, but obviously not essential information.
Yeah, because, background of the war that is centerpiece of the story is not important at all. Sure. :roll:

I kind of get the feeling that it didn't take a whole lot of effort to turn Ben Solo into Kylo Ren, which is why I'm not all that interested in Snoke.

He's a manipulator, and in this instance I just don't find him all that compelling.
Doesn't make him unimportant for the story as a whole.
He is the creator of the First Order, so whether he is compelling character to you or not is irrelevant.
Pretending that he and his origin doesn't matter to the story is another thing altogether, which is just bad storytelling.

if you can't make your villain interesting with more back story, it's either a bad back story or a bad villain.
100% agree.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, because, background of the war that is centerpiece of the story is not important at all. Sure. :roll:.

We'll probably see it eventually. Even if they have to recast Luke, Leia, etc. with new young actors to tell new movies in the gap of 30 years. After they just recast Han I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years we get a new Luke, Leia, etc. to fill in the gap.

Snoke was a bad idea from the start though, it's like J.J. Abrams felt there needed to be another emperor type character around but essentially made him a blank slate. Then Rian killed him off because he realized nobody really cared for him and he was never going to be much more than a Palpatine rehash anyway.

I didn't care about Snoke at all so I cheered when Kylo Ren killed him, also because I wasn't spoiled about Snoke's fate in the movie (unlike Luke), so I wasn't expecting it and was shocked they killed Snoke off only halfway into the movie.

[MikeandRaph87]

We'll probably see it eventually. Even if they have to recast Luke, Leia, etc. with new young actors to tell new movies in the gap of 30 years. After they just recast Han I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years we get a new Luke, Leia, etc. to fill in the gap.

Snoke was a bad idea from the start though, it's like J.J. Abrams felt there needed to be another emperor type character around but essentially made him a blank slate. Then Rian killed him off because he realized nobody really cared for him and he was never going to be much more than a Palpatine rehash anyway.

I didn't care about Snoke at all so I cheered when Kylo Ren killed him, also because I wasn't spoiled about Snoke's fate in the movie (unlike Luke), so I wasn't expecting it and was shocked they killed Snoke off only halfway into the movie.

Nobody cared for Snoke? There have been endless calls for to be Darth Plageuis. Fans wanted to see how he fit into everything.

People also assumed Rey's parents were someone that qas of previous importance. They wanted it and so did I. Abrahams intended for them to be someone.

Then there is how Luke was portrayed. People can change a,lot in 30 years, but even Hamaill did not believe the Luke Skywalkwer we got was true to the core of the character.

Those three things make a lot of fans feel cheated. Its what people wanted to see. Did we get it? We got a middle finger instead.

[plastroncafe]

I feel that frustration very keenly, because I have felt it another placees before. Goodness knows I felt it with the TMNT, and where I was treated with rudeness from the very showrunner of the previous Nick cartoon.

It's never fun to be told that something isn't made for you.

My suggestion to those feelings of frustration, is to find a creative outlet for it. Might I suggest fanfiction, or fanart.

[Vegita-San]

I feel that frustration very keenly, because I have felt it another places before. Goodness knows I felt it with the TMNT, and where I was treated with rudeness from the very showrunner of the previous Nick cartoon.

breaking the cone of silence for a rare admission. hey, we have something in common.

see, there had to be something.

[Sumac]

We'll probably see it eventually. Even if they have to recast Luke, Leia, etc. with new young actors to tell new movies in the gap of 30 years. After they just recast Han I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years we get a new Luke, Leia, etc. to fill in the gap.

Snoke was a bad idea from the start though, it's like J.J. Abrams felt there needed to be another emperor type character around but essentially made him a blank slate. Then Rian killed him off because he realized nobody really cared for him and he was never going to be much more than a Palpatine rehash anyway.

I didn't care about Snoke at all so I cheered when Kylo Ren killed him, also because I wasn't spoiled about Snoke's fate in the movie (unlike Luke), so I wasn't expecting it and was shocked they killed Snoke off only halfway into the movie.
You are special person in general, especially with your newfound "liberal" shtick, so I take your opinion with a tanker of salt.

Most people are interested to see details from previous movies to be expanded.

The whole idea to remake conflict between Empire and Rebels was bad. It was cheapest pandering possible with no imagination whatsoever. Take old characters and make them losers and then kill them and replace them with new uninteresting characters, recreate an old conflict without any explanation.

New Star Wars is an entirely "committee production", safe and sterile as humanly possible. Uninteresting. Creatively bankrupt.

[Vegita-San]

interesting. it fits with that other rumor that iger humiliated kathleen kennedy with a multi company conference call.

but WHY would someone as powerful as Iger NEED an excuse to let kennedy fail on her own merit? couldn't he just fire her if he didn't like her? or thought she wasn't right for the job?

3N_B1yH4j-s

[CyberCubed]

You are special person in general, especially with your newfound "liberal" shtick, so I take your opinion with a tanker of salt.

Most people are interested to see details from previous movies to be expanded.

Where on earth did you get that from anything I posted above? I just said, "We may see it eventually" because they'll obviously be stories whatever made during the 30 year gap in the future. Just like they make stuff inbetween the movies at all other parts of the timeline.

I never said I liked the status quo of the Empire being around, I just said Snoke was a bad idea from the start for obvious reasons he came across as rehashed Emperor. And I said we may get future movies where they may recast Luke/Leia, etc. like Han for more mid-series movies, or if not, it'll be done in comics/novels, etc.

[Andrew NDB]

You are special person in general, especially with your newfound "liberal" shtick, so I take your opinion with a tanker of salt.

Assume it's all an act with Cybercubed. He's more clever than you think.

[CyberCubed]

I also forgot that what's-his-name from Solo signed a contract to reprise his role as Han Solo. Obviously one of them was going to be a direct sequel to Solo (but who knows if that'll happen now), but I really do wonder if we're going to get a whole new Luke and Leia cast now, just so they can have a "young" Luke, Leia and Han in a new set of movies in the 30 year gap.

[Andrew NDB]

but I really do wonder if we're going to get a whole new Luke and Leia cast now, just so they can have a "young" Luke, Leia and Han in a new set of movies in the 30 year gap.

Probably. They already have their NuHan and NuChewie, so there's a third of it already in the bag. They could even include Ewan for a long time as Force Ghost Obi-Wan. Oz while he's still around as Force Ghost Yoda.

[Vegita-San]

disney stock holders should be furious this tool is anywhere near the franchise. or the person who hired him.
sGzKqIKh0nE

[Vegita-San]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23N7BAWpie4

sexism rules at lucasfilm.

it's all because this lady, who got hired not because she was qualified, but through some loop hole, who is ruining the franchise top to bottom.

[plastroncafe]

So... Disney/Geek Blogger plant?

[Spike Spiegel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23N7BAWpie4



Where do you keep finding this sh*t?

Your YouTube sidebar must be filled with angry rants about Star Wars.

[Vegita-San]

nope. i see it posted on other boards. with people just as disenfranchised with the state of things as everyone else is.

[ZariusTwo]

Rian Johnson trilogy axed?

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1004400/Star-Wars-BACKLASH-Disney-Rian-Johnson-trilogy-Last-Jedi-fan-boycott-Kathleen-Kennedy

[Vegita-San]

we can only hope.

especially if they stay true to their word about not going with 'experimental' directors and sticking to people with tried and true track records.

but, the point stands. getting rid of kennedy and johnson is only half the problem. you have to get rid of all the kennedy loyalists and clean house with anyone who puts agenda above story telling.

otherwise, the problem will continue.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

What they should really do is have Rey use the 'world between worlds' from rebels, to prevent Ben Solo's fall to the dark side. Then have her return to a galaxy where Luke, Leia and Han are all alive, the Jedi order was rebuilt by Luke and is stronger than ever, the New Republic is flourishing, Rey is a Knight in Luke's New Jedi order, and Kylo Ren never existed.

[Vegita-San]

i swear that's what filoni was doing when he set that up totally out of nowhere.

as a fail safe just in case.

[MikeandRaph87]

What they should really do is have Rey use the 'world between worlds' from rebels, to prevent Ben Solo's fall to the dark side. Then have her return to a galaxy where Luke, Leia and Han are all alive, the Jedi order was rebuilt by Luke and is stronger than ever, the New Republic is flourishing, Rey is a Knight in Luke's New Jedi order, and Kylo Ren never existed.

They were building up Kylo Ren to be a bigger threat than Darth Vader by doing things Anakin could not (kill his tether to the light and taking over the master). I feel like it actually hurt him instead because the moment I realized he was going to kill Han I wanted Kylo Ren to die. Still want it. I can forgive everything Disney did on one condition, that likely will not be met, Luke Skywalker remain alive. It could not hurt Disney's direction and would make more people happy than consider it a step back.

[Vegita-San]

the end is near. they apparently can't simply fire a woman these days. they have to care package her ego out.
]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
irryNE7BpHU

[frank_one]

Guys, she's a legend. Look at the movies she has produced in the last 35 years. The last jedi sucks, it's true, but why should they fire her?
Disney failed to give the original trilogy, considered a masterpiece by generations, a satisfying continuation after more than 30 years. So what? Do you think it was an easy task? It was simply an impossible mission! Even George Lucas has partially failed with his prequel trilogy and he is the creator of Star Wars! Abrams and Johnson probably were not the best choice in the first place, Johnson is just an horrible screenwriter and Abrams is overrated, I guess. But... who knows? Do you think someone would have done better? Again, it was really, really a difficult task.
Kathleen Kennedy is not going anywhere.

[Vegita-San]

yep. an affirmative action 'legend' that was in the right place at the right time and probably couldn't be fired. who more than likely had nothing to do with the creative aspects of the movies she's attached too.

TE-apNlkKYs

[The Deadman]

Guys, she's a legend. Look at the movies she has produced in the last 35 years. The last jedi sucks, it's true, but why should they fire her?
Disney failed to give the original trilogy, considered a masterpiece by generations, a satisfying continuation after more than 30 years. So what? Do you think it was an easy task? It was simply an impossible mission! Even George Lucas has partially failed with his prequel trilogy and he is the creator of Star Wars! Abrams and Johnson probably were not the best choice in the first place, Johnson is just an horrible screenwriter and Abrams is overrated, I guess. But... who knows? Do you think someone would have done better? Again, it was really, really a difficult task.
Kathleen Kennedy is not going anywhere.

Someone being a "legend" doesnt mean they're immune from criticism or untouchable.

[Andrew NDB]

Disney failed to give the original trilogy, considered a masterpiece by generations, a satisfying continuation after more than 30 years. So what? Do you think it was an easy task? It was simply an impossible mission!

Utter bullsh** and a FAKE narrative.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Utter bullsh** and a FAKE narrative.

I think he was being sarcastic.

...

I hope so, at least.

[Vegita-San]

I think he was being sarcastic.

...

I hope so, at least.

these days one can never be sure...that's why the plant graphic is always handy :)

[frank_one]

yep. an affirmative action 'legend' that was in the right place at the right time and probably couldn't be fired. who more than likely had nothing to do with the creative aspects of the movies she's attached too.You need to be very lucky to be in the right place at the right time for over 30 years. I don't believe it.
Frow wikipedia: "Kennedy is second to Spielberg in domestic box office receipts, with over $7 billion as of January 2018". She is super lucky.

Someone being a "legend" doesnt mean they're immune from criticism or untouchable.True. She's not immune from criticism and I have no problem saying the new Star Wars movies have been a failure for the most part. Ep7 was bland, Ep8 was junk. Rogue one was good actually and I haven't watched Solo yet but I hear good things about it.
People theese days want her dead or in jail for ruining their favorite franchise. What I'm saying is that a couple of bad movies are not enough to put her job in a dangerous position as she comes from an history of incredible success.

I think he was being sarcastic.Not so much.

Utter bullsh** and a FAKE narrative.I love you :)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You need to be very lucky to be in the right place at the right time for over 30 years. I don't believe it.
Frow wikipedia: "Kennedy is second to Spielberg in domestic box office receipts, with over $7 billion as of January 2018". She is super lucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Kennedy_(producer)#Filmography

Damn, I see what you mean...

[Vegita-San]

Again, apparently from what I've seen, she got hired due to some kind of 'diversity hire' lawsuit. chances are, she couldn't be fired even if they wanted to do so. quotes from speilburg claim she wasn't too great at her job. she's married to someone with connections.....and all indications seem to point that she was not involevd with the creative directions of any of these movies.

seems to me she was in the right place at the right time.

I'm still of the mind that this was george lucas' ultimate revenge against her. 'think you're so good, lets see how long you last in charge'..

[frank_one]

Again, apparently from what I've seen, she got hired due to some kind of 'diversity hire' lawsuit.You don't put a lot of money in the hands of someone you don't trust. Male or female.

quotes from speilburg claim she wasn't too great at her job. she's married to someone with connections.....and all indications seem to point that she was not involevd with the creative directions of any of these movies.Let's see these quotes. Give me a link.

I'm still of the mind that this was george lucas' ultimate revenge against her. 'think you're so good, lets see how long you last in charge'..Lucas' revenge. Sure.

[Vegita-San]

as I recall, it was in a 5 page article or interview I Saw online.

I'm trying to refind it, but my google search skills suck. cue 'sure you are' response that I can already hear forming.

that video I posted above from WCB does a good job of explaining things though.

[sdp]

She's not leaving, this thread is FAKE news.

[Vegita-San]

found this fan theory online, regarding 'future is female' EW cover...

>>>
So you've been wondering where Kathleen Kennedy is, and why she's so quiet ? Well, she's being trained/groomed/brought up to speed on taking over for Bob Iger or getting promoted to a higher position than she is/was when she was heading up the Star Wars brand. This is a small sign of her doing ... everyone saying she's fired, .... I'm saying she's being quietly promoted.

remember the "The Force is Female" tee shirts that Kathleen Kennedy was rocking .... well we're seeing it here now in the MCU, the "Future is Female". >>>


THAT would be a REALLY scary thing. and the END of disney, IMHO.

[Autbot_Benz]

found this fan theory online, regarding 'future is female' EW cover...

>>>
So you've been wondering where Kathleen Kennedy is, and why she's so quiet ? Well, she's being trained/groomed/brought up to speed on taking over for Bob Iger or getting promoted to a higher position than she is/was when she was heading up the Star Wars brand. This is a small sign of her doing ... everyone saying she's fired, .... I'm saying she's being quietly promoted.

remember the "The Force is Female" tee shirts that Kathleen Kennedy was rocking .... well we're seeing it here now in the MCU, the "Future is Female". >>>


THAT would be a REALLY scary thing. and the END of disney, IMHO.
https://i.imgur.com/N7Lg7U6.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

Production of SW films slowing down


https://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/09/20/star-wars-movies-release-dates-slowdown-bog-iger/

[Vegita-San]

these idiots have no idea what they are doing.

they have too many big properties to plan and carefuly produce.

[Vegita-San]

there is apparently a forbes article now claiming that kennedy is a LONG shot to replace bob iger. so that makes three places i've seen this 'rumor'

somehow I wouldn't doubt it. these idiots usually manage to fail 'up' in miraculous ways.

[Autbot_Benz]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-chief-kathleen-kennedys-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653

Star Wars' Chief Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm Deal Extended for Three Years

Let the Vegita-San mega triggering begin :lol:

[Zulithe]

I like the job she's doing so far. Look at what is happening with DC movies and Fox Marvel... the quality is very inconsistent. I think the SW movies starting with VII have all been varying degrees of good. A lot of is due to her involvement.

[Andrew NDB]

I think the SW movies starting with VII have all been varying degrees of good.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xIroX3rtDKV1sY/giphy.gif

[Zulithe]

Replying with a Trump gif... well I know where your head is at :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

the quality is very inconsistent.

Star Wars to an exact science

[Leo656]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xIroX3rtDKV1sY/giphy.gif

You're a good egg.

I still can't fathom how anyone can get through TLJ without their head exploding. I can count on one hand the number of times I've walked out of a theater ready to fight someone, but that one tops the list. They totally had me after Force Awakens, too. They had me, and then... ugh.

Zero f*cks given about what comes next under the current regime. Just like TMNT under Nick, the people handling it don't "get it" so it's impossible they'll do anything good with it. Just Toys Toys Toys, forever. Barf.

[frank_one]

I think the SW movies starting with VII have all been varying degrees of good.Varying degrees of bad seems more correct.

[Shark_Blade]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-chief-kathleen-kennedys-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653

Star Wars' Chief Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm Deal Extended for Three Years

Let the Vegita-San mega triggering begin :lol:

Lmaooooo :lol::lol::tlol::tlol:

I’m fine with this but I can imagine how this upsets those who dislike her.

[Vegita-San]

sigh..something about this does NOT add up.

my spidey sense is tingling.

[Leo656]

Eh, it adds up just fine. Regardless of how most fans actually feel, the new stuff still makes money, AND it accomplished their stated goal of "expanding the Star Wars brand" and getting people who never really cared about it to suddenly care a lot. The fact that most of those people are women who only started paying attention super-recently is surely coincidental.

Plus, if Kennedy got pushed out, a whole bunch of people would be accused of sexism, and we know that they can't have that.

She's not going anywhere, and nobody's "fixing" Star Wars. Time to abandon ship or simply make the best of things.

I know where I'm at ((pats life jacket)).

[Andrew NDB]

Eh, it adds up just fine. Regardless of how most fans actually feel, the new stuff still makes money,

Their latest film, "Solo," literally lost a lot of money.

[Vegita-San]

Their latest film, "Solo," literally lost a lot of money.

and the drop off of TLJ was UGE...

She also hasn't been seen in public since April. or even been mentioned since April. that doesn't happen if you're doing a good job the studio is happy with.

My guess?

She'll find some way to leave and step down in a year that will make BOTH parties look good. this way a studio doesn't have to fire a 'powerful woman' in the me too era. no more media backlash and boom...lay low for a while and try to recover what she ruined.

good luck.

[neatoman]

Did it ever make sense to film 4 movies back to back in the first place? I mean yeah, it worked for the MCU but those movies feature characters designed to star in a neverending stream of content, and have been for 40-80 years.

[Leo656]

Their latest film, "Solo," literally lost a lot of money.

I may have been misinformed, or it may simply have been rampant conjecture, but I recall hearing as far back as last September/October that the studio was already prepared to call "Solo" a wash and move on. I read several reports that they were fully prepared for and expecting it to do poorly.

Not what anyone would have wanted, obviously, but they weren't blindsided by it. The "main" movies are what matters most, and TLJ did huge business in spite of the backlash. Some people don't care about what's wrong so long as they get more Star Wars product, and others truly, genuinely can't see what's wrong to start with. Add it up and that's a lot of people supportive of the films' creative direction.

Look, I'd love nothing more than for the next film to fail, for the current regime to get the boot, and for someone to put everything back where it was. At this point, I'd be fine if the franchise stopped years ago, and the last few years of stuff was a bad dream. That's not happening. If you don't like Neux Star Wars, you're a sexist, racist bigot, and/or a delusional senior citizen/manchild. It's already been decided, even if you weren't consulted.

There's simply no way they'd ever go back on things they've repeatedly doubled-down on.

Y'know what's really funny? A commercial for "Solo" On Demand has played on the TV no less than three times in the time it took to type this. :lol: I'm quite sure there's some meaning in that, but I'm too tired to try and figure it out.

[sdp]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-chief-kathleen-kennedys-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_now_2018-09-28%2012:15:01_ehayden&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews


So this whole thread was FAKE news and her contract was renewed.

I did find two videos that explain very well why I hated TLJ without any political crap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCyuIW16Bj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-kxklMSEc4

[Spike Spiegel]

I saw TFA in theaters and kind of hated it after a second viewing. Never saw Rogue One. Last year, I pirated TLJ, and this year, the library two blocks from my apartment showed Solo in their small theater room for free when the blu-ray released (I didn't go).

TLJ made me go through the stages of grief with the franchise, TBH. I don't care about IX, even if it's "good."

I have a morbid curiosity about the revived/lost Clone Wars episodes, but I will never pay for Disney's streaming service. Hopefully it'll get a blu ray release.

I wonder if Gary Kurtz (I think he passed away recently) thought the new stuff was better or worse than the prequels.

[ZariusTwo]

We're blaming Last Jedi backlash on the Russians now. Because why not?

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a867514/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-russian-bots/

[sdp]

They're tripling down on this, I got called alt-right racist/sexist yesterday because on a thread I questioned how people still go to these lengths to say the movie was good. I was also told I lived in an echo chamber and that the movie is great because it was a critical and commercial success.

[Andrew NDB]

We're blaming Last Jedi backlash on the Russians now. Because why not?

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a867514/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-russian-bots/

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1778538&postcount=1668

[Vegita-San]

echo chamber is my favorite oft repeated insult. the people who say it are just as bad as the people who claim to be in said chamber.

I'm betting Kennedy will be gone within those three years.

After episode 9 is released, she'll decide to 'retire' due to being tired of negative publicity and fail upward with an 'honorary oscar'.

She hasn't been seen or heard from since April. if that doesn't say Iger is keeping her tight on a leash, nothing will.

[Sumac]

After I've called Rey bland and sterile Mary Sue, some rabid idiot told me that her being a main character in the movie "hurts my masculinity" and this is why I dislike her.

Rabid fans are bad, but rabid fans who "back up" their insanity with ideology is even worse. It's like a pure concentration of all putrid and vile **** of the crazy fanboy + self-entitlement and EGO of the zealot believing he is on the right side of history. Sorry, "her-story". :P

[Candy Kappa]

After I've called Rey bland and sterile Mary Sue

Just like Luke

[Allio]

You would think a modern character would be written better than a 70’s character, you know

[Leo656]

After I've called Rey bland and sterile Mary Sue, some rabid idiot told me that her being a main character in the movie "hurts my masculinity" and this is why I dislike her.

Rabid fans are bad, but rabid fans who "back up" their insanity with ideology is even worse. It's like a pure concentration of all putrid and vile **** of the crazy fanboy + self-entitlement and EGO of the zealot believing he is on the right side of history. Sorry, "her-story". :P

I was all about Rey after the first flick. I saw a ton of potential, and she's a good actress.

Then it's all "Nah, she's just Way More Awesome Than Everyone, Ever, Just Because We Say So". I called BS and walked away.

People declare Luke a... "whatever" in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Such as, "He made a lot of mistakes and wasn't good at listening to anyone." He had to earn his status, to at least SOME degree, even if some of it was offscreen in-between films. He struggled a lot. And whatever "magical" talents he had could at least be attributable to bloodline. Him getting the ever-loving piss kicked out of him by Vader at the end of "Empire" kind of shatters those "But Luke was OP toooooo!" arguments.

Luke was good, and getting better. But he was NOT "Captain Way More Bad-Ass And Awesome Than Darth Vader and The Emperor and Starman and Captain Crunch COMBINED", the way he's accused by some of being, or the way Rey actually IS.

Rey needs to be Someone Important's Kid or the story is broken. It's really that simple. No character in the history of the Star Wars films ever came out of the box a 100% Certified Bad-Asss. That's because it's lousy f*cking writing. There needs to be a How and Why.

[Sumac]

Just like Luke
Nope.
He was not sterile and actually had emotions, with each next part becoming more and more interesting.

I understand why they made Rey the way they did though: they wanted female lead to pander to lefties and avoid their screeching about "wrong portrayal of female character", so they chose to make character with no emotions and no flaws, which had rendered her boring and sterile.

TL;DR lefties shot themselves in the foot. :lol:

[Vegita-San]

Just like Luke

Please. Rey would have sent back all the bolts from that force training remote AND Desotryed it in the process. It took Luke 3 years to even start to learn how to move objects with his mind, ala light saber.

Rey did it in barely 24 hours. Luke is no mary sue.

[Leo656]

A guy makes ONE lucky shot in the Death Star trenches, despite being mediocre-to-lousy at everything he does for the previous two hours, and suddenly he's a Mary Sue. :lol:

Like you said, that training orb or whatever was sure kicking his ass pretty good for a while, there.

Luke was quite far from perfect, all the way through. Didn't do everything right. Hard to like sometimes. His whole arc is a struggle for balance; not just with The Force, but within himself.

We can't say things that aren't true about one character, just because we want to like a new character more. Ain't right, ain't fair.

[Vegita-San]

I'm shocked they fired their poster boy, Chuck Wendig. I guess you can write too much hateful stuff on twitter and have it come back to bite you.

[ZariusTwo]

For those interested, here's Disney's financial report for 2018, there's a few things about Star Wars in it

https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2018-Annual-Report.pdf

[Vegita-San]

bob iger deletes twitter account, star wars not doing so well.. hmm.

[Egon1982]

She is a cancer to the franchise and Lucasfilm.