"Theybies"

[neatoman]

DetAfzL8BrNSLQ

Does anyone else think these kids are probably going to end up hating their parents?

Edit; I wasn't aware this subject might not be allowed, please delete the thread in case that's true.

[Vegita-San]

this world has gone insane. don't we have enough problems already without adding new ones that are sure to need a psychiatrist later down the line?

sigh

[plastroncafe]

Boy this sure does seem like a political thread, of the kind that Matchias told us not to make anymore.

[neatoman]

Boy this sure does seem like a political thread, of the kind that Matchias told us not to make anymore.

Where? I can't see any announcements, stickies or rules about it. I just saw the sexual allegations thread constantly being active and thought this seemed relatively tame by comparison. If we're really not allowed to discuss this sort of thing, I'll try to remove the thread.

[Andrew NDB]

It's not politics so... I don't see why this would be removed. Then again, I see some shooting threads locked and they're not political either so... it's kind of just whatever threads Machias decides is inappropriate on a given day.

On topic: It's always unfortunate when parents don't want to actually parent, or when they want to perform bizarre social experiments on their children. What kind of parent would do that? I just can't fathom.

Boy this sure does seem like a political thread

How? Seems pretty directly sociological to me.

[IndigoErth]

Does anyone else think these kids are probably going to end up hating their parents?
Eh, I doubt it. The majority of the kids will probably self determine young enough anyhow that it won't matter much in the long run. As long a they respect their kid's view of themselves so that the kid gets the say, rather than being a parent who wants their kid to be something he/she isn't, I don't see much reason for them to end up hating their parent.

Really, at worst, what? It's mostly the parents just complicating it for themselves, and the kid might be a little confused if he/she doesn't quite understand the gender categorizations other kids were taught by society and family and may need some explaining. Not that they won't pick up on it by society too. It's doubtful most of these kids are kept isolated and away from society through their childhood.


Personally though I think it's just easier to identify the kid as they were born, but don't be a rejecting ass of a parent if your kid ends up one of those who feels differently about it.

At the same time, how a kid feels at, say, age six may not be the same as they feel at age 12.

[AT-Man]

I honestly can't see this going wrong. The only problem would be the people who are raised to hate on those who are different.

[Andrew NDB]

At the same time, how a kid feels at, say, age six may not be the same as they feel at age 12.

Who knows? Kids are kids. Most 12 year olds still think there's a Santa Claus and that babies come from a stork. They don't get to set their bedtime, let alone tell their parents their gender is something it's not.

[Candy Kappa]

that babies come from a stork.

That's probably more to do with the educational system in the US :lol:

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So kids are incapable of consent yet they can choose their own gender? Hypocritical Double Standard.

Also, 37 likes and 2500 dislikes :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

So kids are incapable of consent yet they can choose their own gender?

It's appalling. It's irresponsibility as a parent. It's child abuse, the repercussions of which following the kid(s) for the rest of their lives. CPS should step in.

[TurtleWA]

I’m all for doing away with gender stereotypes such as “girls are sugar & spice and everything nice” and “big boys don’t cry, act like a man.”

I never really liked the blue is for boys pink is for girls mentality.

I’m all for parents wanting their kids to grow up healthy and happy.

However, this particular approach I don’t understand. Seems to tip the scale to much the other direction.

I think a more balanced approach is something to be explored.

[Prowler]

Who knows? Kids are kids. Most 12 year olds still think there's a Santa Claus and that babies come from a stork. They don't get to set their bedtime, let alone tell their parents their gender is something it's not.

Eh what? I no longer believed in Santa Claus at the age of 12. Nor did any of my classmates at the time either. I mean, that's 6th-7th grade already. I remember in 5th grade one kid form my class saying he believed in Santa and everyone laughed at him. I guess he was the last one in our class to believe in him.

I found out Santa was fake around 3rd grade or perhaps 4th, I think? So around 8-9 years old.

As fir the stork, I never believed in that BS nor did my older relatives ever feed me that lie. I have no clue where I thought babies came from at the time, but I assumed some sort of process had to be done in order for a woman to get pregnant.

As for the thread itself, not gonna comment on it. Enough these threads already, guys. I just wanted to address Andrew's post.

[snake]

I was raised this way and I turned out perfectly fine.

[BartAllen]

Boy this sure does seem like a political thread, of the kind that Matchias told us not to make anymore.

This sure seems like the type of post that wants to push a narrative so that said poster doesn't have to deal with opinions that are not their own.


Speaking to the subject... Yea, those parents are idiotic and they're doing far more harm than good. Scratch that, they're only doing harm.

[Vegita-San]

This sure seems like the type of post that wants to push a narrative so that said poster doesn't have to deal with opinions that are not their own.


Speaking to the subject... Yea, those parents are idiotic and they're doing far more harm than good. Scratch that, they're only doing harm.

I was thinking the top part, or back seat mod ;o). but, I'll let someone else say it.

but, yeah. there really should be an iq test before you're even allowed to start trying to have kids. people like this shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them.

[Candy Kappa]

This sure seems like the type of post that wants to push a narrative so that said poster doesn't have to deal with opinions that are not their own.

I was thinking the top part, or back seat mod ;o). but, I'll let someone else say it.

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1770339&postcount=8

[Andrew NDB]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1770339&postcount=8

Again. What does politics have to do with any of this? It has zero to do with politics.

[Prowler]

Again. What does politics have to do with any of this? It has zero to do with politics.

It kind of does have to do with social issues, which as we all know are influenced by politics and also can influence them as well.

Point is, it's a controversial issue that's bound to lead to nasty arguments.

[BartAllen]

It kind of does have to do with social issues, which as we all know are influenced by politics and also can influence them as well.

Point is, it's a controversial issue that's bound to lead to nasty arguments.

By that logic we could talk about the price of milk and apply the rules of inflation and say that's a political discussion. We get it, You are unable to deal with opinions that don't align with your own.

This is in no way shape or form a political discussion, at most this is deconstruction of a social experiment.


Oh, and for the record: Just by looking at those two children and seeing the way they walk, I can tell the older one is a girl and the younger one is a boy.

[Prowler]

By that logic we could talk about the price of milk and apply the rules of inflation and say that's a political discussion. We get it, You are unable to deal with opinions that don't align with your own.

This is in no way shape or form a political discussion, at most this is deconstruction of a social experiment.
I what? I dunno who you are referring to, and I don't recall ever arguing with you, so I dunno what makes you think that, but whatever. It doesn't matter.

And ofc a thread about milk could lead to that, but I doubt someone is gonna make a thread about the price of milk anytime soon. When did someone ever make a thread about that in here? And a milk thread per se isn't a particularly controversial thread that's bound to lead to nasty arguments like a thread like this seems to be from the get-go.

Threads similar to this one have been made before and we all know how they've turned out. I have no problems with this thread per se or discussing political and social stuff, since I've obviously engaged in such discussions before, but Machias said she was gonna become more strict an maybe even start banning people. I don't want to get banned nor do most of you, I assume, so it just seems like we're asking for more trouble making threads like this. Andrew's ScarJo thread and Pagreg's thread both got locked and disintegrated. This one will most likely get as well.

[Andrew NDB]

I what? I dunno who you are referring to, and I don't recall ever arguing with you, so I dunno what makes you think that, but whatever. It doesn't matter.

And ofc a thread about milk could lead to that, but I doubt someone is gonna make a thread about the price of milk anytime soon. When did someone ever make a thread about that in here? And a milk thread per se isn't a particularly controversial thread that's bound to lead to nasty arguments like a thread like this seems to be from the get-go.

Threads similar to this one have been made before and we all know how they've turned out. I have no problems with this thread per se or discussing political and social stuff, since I've obviously engaged in such discussions before, but Machias said she was gonna become more strict an maybe even start banning people. I don't want to get banned nor do most of you, I assume, so it just seems like we're asking for more trouble making threads like this. Andrew's ScarJo thread and Pagreg's thread both got locked and disintegrated. This one will most likely get as well.

Well, Machias said "no political threads anymore! There will be cats and dogs living together and total chaos as we have seen in a part of the board that is easily avoidable!" So fine, there's no more political threads anymore. If she wants to come back out and say, "No political threads... and ALSO no threads about things that people may have strong opinions on!" then I guess that's her prerogative. It also might mean the board will become 200% less worth visiting. Until then? *shrug*

[TurtleWA]

Yes avoiding a thread you know could trigger you would be wise.

However, that takes a certain level of self control. The same amount of self control that is utilized in not getting into internet arguments in the first place.

So we would be asking those that lack the control and do get in the arguments to exercise more control and avoid the threads.

If they can’t avoid the argument how can they avoid the thread.

Side note: I confuse myself sometimes. :trazz:

[Vegita-San]

It also might mean the board will become 200% less worth visiting. Until then? *shrug*

or just have 200% less posters since everyone is banned and only two mods left ;o).

[neatoman]

I'm starting to see why it might have been a bad idea to make thread. I really hope I don't get banned for posting it...

[Prowler]

Well, Machias said "no political threads anymore! There will be cats and dogs living together and total chaos as we have seen in a part of the board that is easily avoidable!" So fine, there's no more political threads anymore. If she wants to come back out and say, "No political threads... and ALSO no threads about things that people may have strong opinions on!" then I guess that's her prerogative. It also might mean the board will become 200% less worth visiting. Until then? *shrug*

Yeah, I know. I, too, don't like this change but I don't make the rules around these parts. And at this point I think I've said anything I had to say about these type of issues already. Not much more I can add.

I'm starting to see why it might have been a bad idea to make thread. I really hope I don't get banned for posting it...

Well, Machias sent a PM to several people explaining the situation. You probably didn't get one because you mostly stick to the TMNT sections from my observation, so this means you probably weren't aware of this new "rule", so I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Voltron]

The biggest problem here is that there's no goal to the conversation. It's not an open discussion like "how would you feel if your child came out as gay?" it's just pointing at something and asking for an opinion. There's not much to discuss beyond "I agree" and "I disagree".

[Sumac]

Ah, another by-product of "liberalism".

Well, my opinion, in the current society you can't rise children without "gender". "Gender roles" are too ingrained in a very mentality of the humanity to be done with in the next 100 years or maybe even 1000 years. We are talking about stuff, that maybe even more ingrained that desire for religions and inherent to ALL humans, regardless of place and time and culture.

I approve of the idea, that parents should not forbid their children to play with whatever they want and select whatever "gender expressions" they want.

However, there is a danger that they might push their child to much in one direction or the other. Or that some groups might push their ideology on the other people, whose children have no problem with being risen in traditional "gender roles" and "expressions".
Humanity loves nothing more than create a good idea and then push to the complete and utter absurd. Just look at the history of religions or modern lefties.

In genera, I think humanity should solve other problem first, before going after kids.

And, one more thought: what exactly all this will lead too?
Formless humans who are uniform in the fact that they don't have solid identity?

[Vegita-San]

just heard my new parent sister saying some parents arn't even putting the gender of the baby down when they are born on the birth certificate.

I mean, how stupid can you be? those kids should be taken away right there and then cause they ain't going to grow up normal.

[Voltron]

Ah, another by-product of "liberalism".

Well, my opinion, in the current society you can't rise children without "gender". "Gender roles" are too ingrained in a very mentality of the humanity to be done with in the next 100 years or maybe even 1000 years. We are talking about stuff, that maybe even more ingrained that desire for religions and inherent to ALL humans, regardless of place and time and culture.

I approve of the idea, that parents should not forbid their children to play with whatever they want and select whatever "gender expressions" they want.

However, there is a danger that they might push their child to much in one direction or the other. Or that some groups might push their ideology on the other people, whose children have no problem with being risen in traditional "gender roles" and "expressions".
Humanity loves nothing more than create a good idea and then push to the complete and utter absurd. Just look at the history of religions or modern lefties.

In genera, I think humanity should solve other problem first, before going after kids.

And, one more thought: what exactly all this will lead too?
Formless humans who are uniform in the fact that they don't have solid identity?

I think formless humans is a bleak prediction. It could be that we gain a better understanding of human mental health and emotional well-being.

The idea, as I see it, is to remove the stigma of NOT conforming to the norm. So that when a child reaches an age where they discover their gender or sexual prefences, there's no shame it in being different from what's currently expected.

[Leonardo_thebest]

I think formless humans is a bleak prediction. It could be that we gain a better understanding of human mental health and emotional well-being.



Oh hi there, sensible and rational thought. It's been a while! :lol::lol:
Why people can't see that this is all anyone really wants, is beyond me.

The question seems to come down to, how authoritarian are you, as a parent? how little do you trust your children, and how much responsibility should they have?

If you're a helicopter parent, you'll have a very hard time with this.

[Sumac]

The idea, as I see it, is to remove the stigma of NOT conforming to the norm. So that when a child reaches an age where they discover their gender or sexual prefences, there's no shame it in being different from what's currently expected.
It can be achieved without robbing kids from being defined as "women" and "men". Especially, since biologically they always will be women and men.

In fact, if you say that boys need to identify out of being defined as boys / men, because, men can't do this and that, it only solidifies traditional gender roles.
This is the same thing, why all this "non-binary+" identities only harm the cause of making women and men more free from gender roles.

It's basically a logical "hack": instead of making women and men actually more free, by removing traditional understandings of gender roles, those people just create new "genders", which in turn at some point will be as stifling and limiting as the old ones. Then they will need to create new "gender identities" and so on.
This whole idea of new genders or "genderless" people is illogical though and thorough.

Why people can't see that this is all anyone really wants, is beyond me.
Because, even grown up people not always know themselves what they want, much less kids, and can be easily pushed by propaganda or influence of society into harmful directions?
Like kids who go into teenage gangs, start doing drugs and so on.

The question seems to come down to, how authoritarian are you, as a parent? how little do you trust your children, and how much responsibility should they have?

If you're a helicopter parent, you'll have a very hard time with this.
Trust should come in limited amounts, especially when it comes to kids, who have limited experience with other people and life in general.
What if kid will decides that they can fly? Will you as liberal parent will allow it to jump from the roof and applaud how brave and stunning and individual your child is?
What if kid decides to try out drugs? Will you put a syringe in their hands?

I've actually met some "liberals", who genuinely believe that if person wants to commit suicide they should not be stopped from it, because, it's their right as individual. Needless to say, those people made me even further disgusted with current "liberalism".

[plastroncafe]

The biggest problem here is that there's no goal to the conversation. It's not an open discussion like "how would you feel if your child came out as gay?" it's just pointing at something and asking for an opinion. There's not much to discuss beyond "I agree" and "I disagree".

Exactly. This.
the way it will say this, it's important to have conversations like this with a potential life partner, so that way should you decide to raise children you're both on the same page.

But I hardly see anyone in this thread using it as a means to find a potential life partner.

[Sumac]

Exactly. This.
the way it will say this, it's important to have conversations like this with a potential life partner, so that way should you decide to raise children you're both on the same page.

But I hardly see anyone in this thread using it as a means to find a potential life partner.
Yeah, because, only potential life partners should discuss those things.
:lol:

[Leonardo_thebest]

Yeah, because, only potential life partners should discuss those things.
:lol:

Other peoples opinions matter?

[Sumac]

Other peoples opinions matter?
Imagine this!

[Ulisa]

I can certainly see WHY they’re trying to take this approach. As has been previously mentioned, I think this all stems from trying to eliminate the stigma of people going against “the norm” and I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. Acceptance is something more people need to engage in.

Having said that though, I don’t think raising kids “without gender” is the way to go about it. Mainly because except in extremely rare cases, I don’t think it can be done. We engage in so many different behaviors subconsciously. It’s not as simple as giving trucks to one and dolls to another. We react, interact and interpret situations differently based on all kinds of factors; gender just happens to be a major one.

Case in point, they did a study on gender and parental interactions: they either assigned parents to an infant that was male, female or to one whom they did not reveal the gender of and had them respond when the child was frightened by a jack in the box. Almost 80% of those assigned to a female infant responded with comfort, physical affection when the child was startled. With the males, distraction was the response again at around 80%. What they found in the neutral group was a mix but it was consistent with what gender they THOUGHT the child was. Despite being told to keep gender neutral, the parents subconsciously assigned one and it affected their reactions.

[Vegita-San]

because this gender neutral mess is a relatively new idea.

The old way worked well for millions of years. just because a small minority thinks that it should change and work well, doesn't mean it will.

IMHO, and I am putting this bluntly, so consider me an enemy of free thought if you will... you are born what you are born. anything else is just a by product of modern craziness. or something in the water.

[Leonardo_thebest]

because this gender neutral mess is a relatively new idea.

The old way worked well for millions of years. just because a small minority thinks that it should change and work well, doesn't mean it will.

IMHO, and I am putting this bluntly, so consider me an enemy of free thought if you will... you are born what you are born. anything else is just a by product of modern craziness. or something in the water.

Thought experiment.

Imagine, just for fun, I started telling you, that you were not you. You argued that you were in fact, you.

Imagine daily, weekly, monthly reinforcements that despite who you knew you were, you were attacked for trying to just be you.

Live it. Honestly. Let everything else go, and imagine being denied the right to just be who you are, because other people had a different opinion about who you were.

Sounds like a living hell to me, and all so somebody else can be okay with who they think you are.

Imagine this!

What gives you the impression anyone cares what you think?

[plastroncafe]

Who wants to be the one to tell Vegita that the concept gender neutrality goes back thousands of years?
And that what we'd define as modern humans around 200,000?
She's got me blocked, so it can't be me.

[Spike Spiegel]

because this gender neutral mess is a relatively new idea


Two-spirit - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit)

Third gender - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender)

mPiBobQQr6M

[plastroncafe]

There is something interesting to be teased out of the, "You are what you are when you're born," however.
The answer to that is just as much sociological as it is biological, and the amounts of each really depend on your personal take on the interplay between nurture vs nature.

There are a whole lot of studies that show that we gender children long before their non-diaper covered bodies exhibit of the characteristics we associate with adult sexual dimorphism.

Girl babies tend to be hand so that they're facing whoever is holding them, where as boy babies are held facing out. Girls are pretty, boys are strong. etc.
We're not really allowed to be what we are when we're born, because from day one...and sometimes even before day one, we're being told who we are, and praised or punished for how we react to that telling.

So with that in mind, when did you first truly feel and recognize your gender, and how do you define that gender?
ie: when did you feel like a boy, and how do you define being a man?

[Spike Spiegel]

ie: when did you feel like a boy, and how do you define being a man?

My interior life as a child was fertile with fantasies stemming from reading lots of books and watching action cartoons like Batman TAS along with a very early exposure to original Star Trek and TNG. Picard, Kirk, and Riker were men of action but Geordi, Data, Spock, and Bones were just as important due to their intellect. I was an only child and very much of a loner.

As a kid I thought a man was someone who spoke in a deep voice, made wise decisions, and had a kind of implicit authority (over himself and his surroundings, mostly, but sometimes others as well). Someone who keeps his promises and can defend himself, his family, and his friends.

I was also raised in a very fundamentalist Christian environment by a single mother, so that whole "man is the head of his family" thing seemed somewhat contradictory, given my situation.

I don't think about those sorts of things all that much anymore, to be honest.
Many of the male authority figures I met through church were often henpecked by their wives or hypocritical/weak by failing to keep their promises to those around them or failing their faith (one pastor's son I looked up to back then was arrested for molesting an underage girl).

No man lives up to those implicit cultural standards all the time. The motivation for and definition of "being a man" has to come from within, regardless of what is currently fashionable to society at large.

[Prowler]

Who wants to be the one to tell Vegita that the concept gender neutrality goes back thousands of years?
And that what we'd define as modern humans around 200,000?
She's got me blocked, so it can't be me.

Vegita-san is a woman?!

[Vegita-San]

I actually identify as an emperor overlord from the planet vespa.

Bow before me as we do our traditional rain dance to the sky demons.

[Leonardo_thebest]

I actually identify as an emperor overlord from the planet vespa.

Bow before me as we do our traditional rain dance to the sky demons.

I would have never guessed No-Vegetables was a woman. We all learned something today.

She reads like an angry white cis-male.

[Voltron]

It can be achieved without robbing kids from being defined as "women" and "men". Especially, since biologically they always will be women and men.


No one said anything about doing away with genders. What's being discussed is raising a child without the traditionally rigid input of "boy stuff" and "girl stuff". It's not forcing that on either anyone, though.

I'm a teacher. I see girls playing warriors and masculine roles all the time. They want to build robots and fight dragons and go on adventures. Why stop them? Worse, why pull them aside to remind that, while they are allowed to have fun, they have to remember they're still a girl?

I can see that the idea of letting boys play dress up or girls handle power tools may be frightening to some people. It's none of their damn business, though. If a boy wants to be a fashion designer and girl wants to be a weight lifter, I say go for it.



In fact, if you say that boys need to identify out of being defined as boys / men, because, men can't do this and that, it only solidifies traditional gender roles.
This is the same thing, why all this "non-binary+" identities only harm the cause of making women and men more free from gender roles.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.





It's basically a logical "hack": instead of making women and men actually more free, by removing traditional understandings of gender roles, those people just create new "genders", which in turn at some point will be as stifling and limiting as the old ones. Then they will need to create new "gender identities" and so on.
This whole idea of new genders or "genderless" people is illogical though and thorough.

No one said anything about creating new genders. And if even if we are talking about that, who cares? Let people be people. I'm not allowed to pick your name, insist on what job title you have, or tell everyone how happy you are when I don't know you from Adam. What gives anyone else the right to do that? Just because some has a penis doesn't meanwe get to make them play with Tonka trucks and toy guns.



Because, even grown up people not always know themselves what they want, much less kids, and can be easily pushed by propaganda or influence of society into harmful directions?
Like kids who go into teenage gangs, start doing drugs and so on.

You started out with a statement that slowly turned into a question.

If you're trying to say that people don't always know what they want, I agree. However, we can't just look at them and decide to help them out with our own opinions. Finding out what you want is a journey you make on your own.



Trust should come in limited amounts, especially when it comes to kids, who have limited experience with other people and life in general.
What if kid will decides that they can fly? Will you as liberal parent will allow it to jump from the roof and applaud how brave and stunning and individual your child is?
What if kid decides to try out drugs? Will you put a syringe in their hands?

This is a slippery slope argument. No one is arguing that children should be given free reign to do anything the please. No one is suggesting kids be allowed to drive, or vote, or play with volatile materials to see if they want to pursue a career in HAZMAT.

This is deciding that, if your 5 year old boy is watching Strawberry Shortcake, you don't change the ****ing channel to G.I. Joe. You just be happy that the kid is trying to figure out what he likes.

Conversely, if your daughter asks for a playschool tool set or a science kit and you tell her that it's only for boys, you're doing it wrong.

Notice that these are healthy areas to explore. If a kid is asking for a good crow bar or a six pack of Bud, any decent parent is going to shut that down. If a kid wants to a home tattoo kit, the answer should a hard "no"


I've actually met some "liberals", who genuinely believe that if person wants to commit suicide they should not be stopped from it, because, it's their right as individual. Needless to say, those people made me even further disgusted with current "liberalism".

It's called assisted suicide, and some people do wish to die on their own terms. Freedom is a double edged sword. On one hand, we are free to pursue our interests so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others. On the other hand, others may not like our choices.

The nice thing is that you're free to be upset by this, but not to tell people that they're freaks for being comfortable without hurting anyone. That's just not cool.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm totally OK with assisted suicide. I think the more people that want off this Earth, the better, at the current trajectory. I think there should be absolutely no barriers to this barring mental impairment to where they're not of sound mind.

I'm far less OK with parents doing social experiments on their children. Girls playing with boy toys, boys playing with girl toys... that's one thing (my daughter has bought things that could be construed as "boy toys" and I've allowed her to choose literally "boy shoes" at times). Letting 5 year-olds determine much more than which cereal they'd like in the morning, not so much. It's called stepping in and being a parent. When they're 18, they can do whatever they want.

[CyberCubed]

I would have never guessed No-Vegetables was a woman. We all learned something today.

She reads like an angry white cis-male.

Vegita-san is a woman?!

No, he's male. I watched his youtube interviews of David Wise back in the early 2000's.

[Sumac]

Thought experiment.

Imagine, just for fun, I started telling you, that you were not you. You argued that you were in fact, you.

Imagine daily, weekly, monthly reinforcements that despite who you knew you were, you were attacked for trying to just be you.

Live it. Honestly. Let everything else go, and imagine being denied the right to just be who you are, because other people had a different opinion about who you were.

Sounds like a living hell to me, and all so somebody else can be okay with who they think you are.
We are talking about normal people risen as if they were something "shapeless", for the lack of the better term, not 0,01 of population with mental problems. So your "thought experiment" doesn't really fit.

What gives you the impression anyone cares what you think?
I might ask the same of you.

Two-spirit - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit)

Third gender - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender)

mPiBobQQr6M
Those people also believed in spirits and deities.
I wouldn't take their idea of human psychology very seriously.
Also, I am pretty sure that those ideas of "two spirits" are actually quite different from modern idea of "gender identity".
Of course, people with agenda will pretend that it is a prove of their position, but in reality it's just lame rewriting of history, which libbies often attribute to their ideological opponents.

We're not really allowed to be what we are when we're born, because from day one...and sometimes even before day one, we're being told who we are, and praised or punished for how we react to that telling.
It will never change, unless there will be completely sterile society, without any legacy or ideas of what women and men are.

So with that in mind, when did you first truly feel and recognize your gender, and how do you define that gender?
ie: when did you feel like a boy, and how do you define being a man?
I am who I am and I don't care what people think who I am. I define myself, however, I acknowledge what my sex is and that it is unchangeable and how it linked to some expectations in society I am living in.

I would have never guessed No-Vegetables was a woman. We all learned something today.

She reads like an angry white cis-male.
No such things as "cis".
Normality doesn't need prefix to validate others having a prefix.

No one said anything about doing away with genders. What's being discussed is raising a child without the traditionally rigid input of "boy stuff" and "girl stuff". It's not forcing that on either anyone, though.

I'm a teacher. I see girls playing warriors and masculine roles all the time. They want to build robots and fight dragons and go on adventures. Why stop them? Worse, why pull them aside to remind that, while they are allowed to have fun, they have to remember they're still a girl?

I can see that the idea of letting boys play dress up or girls handle power tools may be frightening to some people. It's none of their damn business, though. If a boy wants to be a fashion designer and girl wants to be a weight lifter, I say go for it.
And I completely support this.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
Let's try again: you have traditional gender roles. And ideas of how men and women should look and act.
Then you you say, if women or men wants to who they are and do what they want to do, they should stop identifying as women or men and start identifying as something else.
Which logically means, that "women" and "men" are indeed a collection of often harmful stereotypes and that can not be changed.
And that person can only be free if they will opt out of being a woman or a man.

No one said anything about creating new genders. And if even if we are talking about that, who cares? Let people be people. I'm not allowed to pick your name, insist on what job title you have, or tell everyone how happy you are when I don't know you from Adam. What gives anyone else the right to do that? Just because some has a penis doesn't meanwe get to make them play with Tonka trucks and toy guns.
It's not about toys. It's about rising kid entirely without concept of being a woman or a man, which is impossible.

You started out with a statement that slowly turned into a question.

If you're trying to say that people don't always know what they want, I agree. However, we can't just look at them and decide to help them out with our own opinions. Finding out what you want is a journey you make on your own.
And sometimes this journey might lead to (self)harm, and this your duty as a parent to step in and stop insanity brewing.

This is a slippery slope argument. No one is arguing that children should be given free reign to do anything the please. No one is suggesting kids be allowed to drive, or vote, or play with volatile materials to see if they want to pursue a career in HAZMAT.

This is deciding that, if your 5 year old boy is watching Strawberry Shortcake, you don't change the ****ing channel to G.I. Joe. You just be happy that the kid is trying to figure out what he likes.

Conversely, if your daughter asks for a playschool tool set or a science kit and you tell her that it's only for boys, you're doing it wrong.

Notice that these are healthy areas to explore. If a kid is asking for a good crow bar or a six pack of Bud, any decent parent is going to shut that down. If a kid wants to a home tattoo kit, the answer should a hard "no"
I am agree with this.

It's called assisted suicide, and some people do wish to die on their own terms. Freedom is a double edged sword. On one hand, we are free to pursue our interests so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others. On the other hand, others may not like our choices.

The nice thing is that you're free to be upset by this, but not to tell people that they're freaks for being comfortable without hurting anyone. That's just not cool.
No, people who think that helping perfectly healthy people to die, because, they have troubles in their live are batshit insane immoral bastards.
Life is the most precious thing in the world and if some people think that instead helping person it is better to just kill them, those people are outright vile garbage.

I'm totally OK with assisted suicide. I think the more people that want off this Earth, the better, at the current trajectory. I think there should be absolutely no barriers to this barring mental impairment to where they're not of sound mind.
There is a difference between letting people with medical conditions to choose whether they want to live or not and helping to die people in depression, just because they have a rough period of time in their lives.

[Leonardo_thebest]

No, he's male. I watched his youtube interviews of David Wise back in the early 2000's.

Source? I'd love to see them.

FRUHMVbf_hg

[Vegita-San]

No such things as "cis".
Normality doesn't need prefix to validate others having a prefix.


Bingo. it's just angry people trying to deviate the norm and bring others into their unique world of constantly angry.. I do sometimes wonder why some people are even on this forum when they seem more interested in talking angrily about fringe topics than actually engaging in other things like actual turtle talk.

and for the record, I may not be much of one, but happily identifying as male. whether i am angry or not is in the eye of the beholder.

[Sumac]

Bingo. it's just angry people trying to deviate the norm and bring others into their unique world of constantly angry.. I do sometimes wonder why some people are even on this forum when they seem more interested in talking angrily about fringe topics than actually engaging in other things like actual turtle talk.
They are trolls.
They know that most people don't share their values and never will, so they rub their ideology in the face of everyone.
If they were really interested in actual change, they would have gone with their beliefs to the other places, not in Internet, not a forum about comic book / cartoon characters.

[plastroncafe]

By my logic that would make Vigita male.
Because I accept what people identify as, as their gender.
And I would apologize for misgendering them.

By the logic and admission of other people in this thread, Vegita would need to participate and an examination of both genotype and phenotype to prove that they are male.
And until such time as that proof exists, then they are whatever sex and gender the other people say they are.

One doesn't need to be an adherent of free thought, or particularly educated in either sociology, anthropology, or biology to be respectful and empathetic to those around them.
But those do help.

Also helpful, not conflating the status quo with normal with average.

[Leonardo_thebest]

So, looks like Sumac is once again doing that thing.

Can't we just vote it off the island? I get that it doesn't know any better, and Vagene laughs at all it's jokes, but I don't think it contributes to a better user experience as a whole.

I'm still pretty sure the hostile responses come from some repressed emotions.
We could try and talk that out. Help it to heal.


Also helpful, not conflating the status quo with normal with average.

If it did that, it might be confused with human, for showing empathy. That would be quite out of character.

[IndigoErth]

By my logic that would make Vigita male.
Because I accept what people identify as, as their gender.
And I would apologize for misgendering them.

By the logic and admission of other people in this thread, Vegita would need to participate and an examination of both genotype and phenotype to prove that they are male.
And until such time as that proof exists, then they are whatever sex and gender the other people say they are.
So my unsaid thought of "I see what you did there" from a couple posts back was accurate. :twink:





Some definite screaming about "My comfort zone!" happening around here...

[Voltron]

I'm totally OK with assisted suicide. I think the more people that want off this Earth, the better, at the current trajectory. I think there should be absolutely no barriers to this barring mental impairment to where they're not of sound mind.

I'm far less OK with parents doing social experiments on their children. Girls playing with boy toys, boys playing with girl toys... that's one thing (my daughter has bought things that could be construed as "boy toys" and I've allowed her to choose literally "boy shoes" at times). Letting 5 year-olds determine much more than which cereal they'd like in the morning, not so much. It's called stepping in and being a parent. When they're 18, they can do whatever they want.

What do you think is happening in these families?

[plastroncafe]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/dogs-and-cats-76pyn4.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Thought experiment.

Imagine, just for fun, I started telling you, that you were not you. You argued that you were in fact, you.

Imagine daily, weekly, monthly reinforcements that despite who you knew you were, you were attacked for trying to just be you.

Live it. Honestly. Let everything else go, and imagine being denied the right to just be who you are, because other people had a different opinion about who you were.

Sounds like a living hell to me, and all so somebody else can be okay with who they think you are.

If your ideology or its proponents cannot withstand criticism and attacks, then it has failed from the very beginning.

[AT-Man]

She reads like an angry white cis-male.

Hey, now! I'm an angry white cis-male, and I don't sound or read anything like that.

[Jester]

I can't be the only one....
https://media.giphy.com/media/7owZPEVTPjFPa/giphy.gif
THEYBIES!! THEY'RE THEYBIES!!! *awkward Shredder growl*

[Leonardo_thebest]

If your ideology or its proponents cannot withstand criticism and attacks, then it has failed from the very beginning.

...Says the guys who worships an invisible man in the sky.
You'll excuse me if i don't take your point.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I can't be the only one....
https://media.giphy.com/media/7owZPEVTPjFPa/giphy.gif
THEYBIES!! THEY'RE THEYBIES!!! *awkward Shredder growl*

I love your posts more and more everyday :D

[IndigoErth]

I can't be the only one....
https://media.giphy.com/media/7owZPEVTPjFPa/giphy.gif
THEYBIES!! THEY'RE THEYBIES!!! *awkward Shredder growl*
https://78.media.tumblr.com/b6b16e83159e6036f1d1cd2accb956eb/tumblr_oxlr40x8dg1uwcu03o1_400.gif

Can't unhear it now.

[Andrew NDB]

I can't be the only one....
https://media.giphy.com/media/7owZPEVTPjFPa/giphy.gif
THEYBIES!! THEY'RE THEYBIES!!! *awkward Shredder growl*

You might have been. But now it can't be unthought.

[Andrew NDB]

What do you think is happening in these families?

Which families? Specifically.

[Sumac]

One doesn't need to be an adherent of free thought, or particularly educated in either sociology, anthropology, or biology to be respectful and empathetic to those around them.
But those do help.
There is fine line between respect and empathy and validating insanity.

Also helpful, not conflating the status quo with normal with average.
Sorry, bad news for you: biological status quo is permanent. No amount of hand-wringing and crazy faux-ideologies will be able to do anything about it.

Can't we just vote it off the island? I get that it doesn't know any better, and Vagene laughs at all it's jokes, but I don't think it contributes to a better user experience as a whole.

I'm still pretty sure the hostile responses come from some repressed emotions.
We could try and talk that out. Help it to heal.
Who is "it", who is "Vagene"? Are you sure you are writing to the right place? By the way, your personal experience is not something everyone should care about.

My hostile reactions come from the fact that most of this ideology is a dog crap, that actively trying to force normal people to doubt their normality and butcher themselves for the sake of comfort of mentally ill people, who would be able to point out to the growing mass of poor children, women and men who were caught into their nets and say: "SEE!! THERE ARE MANY OF US!!" just to validate their fee-fees.

It's an abusive ideology at its core, that doesn't work to dismantle stereotypes, but actively trying to create new ones, that would mesh with insane delusions, passed as "ideology of (post)modern liberalism" to the comfort of the small minority.

If it did that, it might be confused with human, for showing empathy. That would be quite out of character.
Empathy is not validation of insanity.
If person wants to cut their arms because they have a feeling that it might make them more "complete", you do not give them a knife. This is normal behavior. This is empathy.

Looking how this person chops their own limbs and clapping and laughing, calling them brave and stunning and bright individual, while said persons dies in the pool of their own blood, and saying: "we need more brave people like this person!" is not an empathy, but an insanity.

If your ideology or its proponents cannot withstand criticism and attacks, then it has failed from the very beginning.
Word.
Their ideology can not withstand anything, this is why its proponents are trying to paint everyone who doesn't agree with them as monsters.
This is the only way they can sell their twisted beliefs to the masses, otherwise everyone with an ounce of logic will see how phony and illogical their whole house of cards is.

...Says the guys who worships an invisible man in the sky.
You'll excuse me if i don't take your point.
There is virtually no-difference, why individual wants to harm themselves and others, fictional monsters or personal delusions, all the same crap.

[IndigoErth]

biological status quo
https://i.imgur.com/FQPh9OU.gif

https://i.imgur.com/AW3EHBF.gif

Is this the part where we (and by "we" I mean people not like I) lock down the comfort zone at max security and insist that based on "biology" men are inherently better, white people are inherently better, people who strictly adhere to others expectations of their personal life are inherently better (even though we are for some reason generalizing this across cultures on an international fan forum), and so on?

Rant about liberals all you want, but this alt-right nonsense is poisonous to any society.

[plastroncafe]

I'm instantly reminded of my first neurology lecture, in which the professor told me that chances were good that by the end of the semester a good portion of everything that we were taught would be wrong, because that's how quickly that particular branch of biology moves.

I took molecular cell biology 15 years ago, when it was accepted convention to refer to any non protein coding portions of the genome as Junk DNA.
I took another molecular cell biology class A year ago, it would seem that that junk DNA actually has an intracellular function.

there's an ever-expanding research field into exactly how the sry gene functions, and it would appear that having an sry Gene alone isn't enough to turn the mammalian embryo from its default female setting to a male one.
so you can actually have an sry Gene, that functions, but is inactive.

So this tells us that being genomicly XY does not guarantee maleness. And since every person alive doesn't go and have their entire genome mapped, we have absolutely no idea how prevalent this genotype is.
and that's not even going anywhere near the field of epigenetics, which is also exploding with possibility.

So yeah, the only biological status quo that we have is that change is the only constant.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So... we've had TWO actual parents comment in this thread so far? Out of about 12-15 posters? (My own humble self not included.)

Single marriage counselors strike again...

[oldmanwinters]

I can't be the only one....
https://media.giphy.com/media/7owZPEVTPjFPa/giphy.gif
THEYBIES!! THEY'RE THEYBIES!!! *awkward Shredder growl*

Honestly, that's what I thought this thread was about just seeing the title.

[Andrew NDB]

So... we've had TWO actual parents comment in this thread so far? Out of about 12-15 posters? (My own humble self not included.)

Single marriage counselors strike again...

And thank goodness many of the people in this thread aren't parents.

[Vegita-San]

Empathy is not validation of insanity.
If person wants to cut their arms because they have a feeling that it might make them more "complete", you do not give them a knife. This is normal behavior. This is empathy.

Looking how this person chops their own limbs and clapping and laughing, calling them brave and stunning and bright individual, while said persons dies in the pool of their own blood, and saying: "we need more brave people like this person!" is not an empathy, but an insanity.


Word.
Their ideology can not withstand anything, this is why its proponents are trying to paint everyone who doesn't agree with them as monsters.
This is the only way they can sell their twisted beliefs to the masses, otherwise everyone with an ounce of logic will see how phony and illogical their whole house of cards is.
.

say any of this logical stuff and you are labeled with 'hate crime's and being 'a monster'. it's not any of this 'left or right' nonsense.. it's just common sense worked for millions of years.

[plastroncafe]

Modern Homo sapiens have existed for 200,000 years.

Oh wait! Maybe this is just a miscommunication!
People have only been around for 200, 000 years, so maybe this millions of years thing keeps getting brought up because we're not dealing with primate people, but lizard people.

I can't speak to the biology of lizard people, I'm an anthropologist by training.
But there are more than a couple of reptiles that have their sex determined by the ambient temperature of their nest...

Shotty science aside, again the question of whether or not to reinforce gender norms in one's house while raising one's children is a private one.

For the most part, whatever we find ourselves lacking from our childhood families we more than make up for with the found families of our adulthood.

these kids have parents who love them, if they feel the need to run away and join Corporate America because Mommy and Daddy allowed them to be gender neutral at a time when they didn't have any secondary sexual characteristics to speak of anyway, then they can run away and join Corporate America.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It's not any of this 'left or right' nonsense.. it's just common sense worked for millions of years.

He is Right.

fRs0OqV4uSc

[Andrew NDB]

https://data.whicdn.com/images/54753828/original.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://data.whicdn.com/images/54753828/original.jpg

I'm about to shove a thingamabob in my eye from reading through this thread...

[plastroncafe]

Yes but what will you do with the other 18?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm about to shove a thingamabob in my eye from reading through this thread...

But who cares?
No Big Deal.
I want more.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yes but what will you do with the other 18?

Is that how many she had? The Robot Chicken sketch was unclear...

[plastroncafe]

Is that how many she had? The Robot Chicken sketch was unclear...

"You want thingamabobs
I've got 20"
I figured you were going to use at least one per eye, unless you want to be unhygienic about it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

"You want thingamabobs
I've got 20"
I figured you were going to use at least one per eye, unless you want to be unhygienic about it.

:tlol:

I dunno, I was thinking about shoving the rest of them under my fingernails and toenails. But then I'm two toes short...

[plastroncafe]

I think given The To Do List in question, you may not even notice the two toenails by the end.
Plus it's not like the little toes have all that much of a nail bed to speak of anyways.

Silver lining!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think given The To Do List in question, you may not even notice the two toenails by the end.
Plus it's not like the little toes have all that much of a nail bed to speak of anyways.

Silver lining!

Pinky toes are the Harry Kim of anatomy. Useless, some people think they're cute, and you probably won't even miss them when they're not around. They keep getting banged up whenever you're out exploring, and you just wanna cut 'em off and toss in the recycler.

[plastroncafe]

Now now, you're in danger of bringing this thread back on topic.
Best see to that.

[IndigoErth]

I was going to earlier with a comment until I previewed it, saw the last bunch of posts that quickly turned up before I could submit it, and thought, dammit you guys... lol

What'er you all on... an early weekend? :trazz:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Now now, you're in danger of bringing this thread back on topic.
Best see to that.

No, I'm going to single-handedly turn this thread into a rant against useless characters on Star Trek. And it's going to be awesome. Unlike Harry Kim. Or Neelix. Or Kes.

I was going to earlier with a comment until I previewed it, saw the last bunch of posts that quickly turned up before I could submit it, and thought, dammit you guys... lol

What'er you all on... an early weekend? :trazz:

Is "early weekend" a new street drug?

[plastroncafe]

So help me Glod, if Barclay makes it onto your list, WE WILL HAVE WORDS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS7AwjDUsAEeLDf.png

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So help me Glod, if Barclay makes it onto your list, WE WILL HAVE WORDS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS7AwjDUsAEeLDf.png

Barclay's terrible, but he was meant to be terrible. Which makes him... tolerable.

[IndigoErth]

Is "early weekend" a new street drug?
Probably sooner or later. But not spelled so well.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Probably sooner or later. But not spelled so well.

All the cool kids are doing Ketracel White these days...

[Andrew NDB]

Barclay's terrible, but he was meant to be terrible. Which makes him... tolerable.

He was a sight for sore eyes when he showed up on Voyager.

[Sumac]

Is this the part where we (and by "we" I mean people not like I) lock down the comfort zone at max security and insist that based on "biology" men are inherently better, white people are inherently better, people who strictly adhere to others expectations of their personal life are inherently better (even though we are for some reason generalizing this across cultures on an international fan forum), and so on?

Rant about liberals all you want, but this alt-right nonsense is poisonous to any society.
I am not really sure how you have read my post, but you are mistaking.

I am not alt-right, alt-left, alt-shift, alt+f4 or anything, and what I've meant, with "biological status quo" is that women and men are immutable reality. Both unique and neither should be what society dictates them, however, they do exist and this is won't change for as long as humanity exists.

So, next time, if you want to make accusation, please, read carefully.

So yeah, the only biological status quo that we have is that change is the only constant.
Men can't have children without women and biologically different from them and can not spontaneously develop female biology. The same thing can be said about women, so...status quo.
You're welcome.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

He was a sight for sore eyes when he showed up on Voyager.

Ugh. Of all the TNG characters to have guest-star on Voyager, why would you want Barclay? :tlol:

Although we did get Troi, Riker, and Geordi in other episodes...

[plastroncafe]

All the cool kids are doing Ketracel White these days...

Deep cut, man.
Deep cut.

I like it!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Deep cut, man.
Deep cut.

I like it!

It's only deep cut if you're not a true Trekkie.

Remember, Victory is Life!

[Leonardo_thebest]

So this thread is basically

"Don't you dare tell your kids they can be anything they want, 'casue then MY kids will want to be anything THEY want, and that bothers me in a way that I can't express in proper English. I can't use science, as i'm not educated enough, I'm also not a doctor, but i can tell you what is normal. I have all these opinions about what you are feeling, and it's my right to stop you from doing things I don't understand."

Something like that?

SUMAC, I think you need to brush up on your post modernism, biology, anthropology, and linguistic skills. Beyond that perhaps look into the work done by Kinsey into human sexuality, as a starter, then push forward and work your way up to Sari van Anders.

Once you've done THAT homework, I'll give you next weeks assignments.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

<<<lots of words>>>

Oh sure, man, avoid the REAL hard questions...

If Picard's so great, how come he never had the balls to punch Q in the face?

https://pics.me.me/capt-picard-capt-sisko-when-confronted-by-q-when-confronted-10172755.png

[plastroncafe]

It's only deep cut if you're not a true Trekkie.

Remember, Victory is Life!

Heghlu’meH QaQ jajvam!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Heghlu’meH QaQ jajvam!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/75/7b/d5757b6b90a03f2ea0368dfe52927aa0.jpg

[neatoman]

Well this thread took an odd direction... Oh well, at least it's not what I feared it would become...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/22/3b/63223bd146b4460d5b2e85d449b23619.jpg

[DarkFell]

Capt. Sisko vs. Capt. Picard topic on Q control..
Because Picard viewed Q as an adult at their first confrontation and, unless the situation turned critical, Piccard usually tried to deal with people / problems in a diplomatic matter. A big mistake was made there since Q engineered the USS Enterprise-1701-D crew with their first Borg run-in, along other challenges that the crew faced whenever Q wanted to play some more.

Capt. Sisko did not make the same mistake(s) in dealing with Q that Picard did. He simply handled handled Q in a matter that *physically* stated "None of your bullsh*t is wanted nor welcomed in MY station motherf*cker!!"

[Metalwolf]

I've actually met some "liberals", who genuinely believe that if person wants to commit suicide they should not be stopped from it, because, it's their right as individual. Needless to say, those people made me even further disgusted with current "liberalism".
Same here, that attitude they have gives me the creeps.

They also naively think legalized assisted suicide would not be abused if *enough legal safeguards were in place* but Holland or the Netherlands, what ever the country(s) are, already are moving into euthanasia of children who might be 'assumed' to suffer like some severely disabled children, allowing people with chronic (not terminal, CHRONIC) conditions to have assisted suicide, and people have already know some doctors to decide you are 'suffering' and prescribe you a lethal medication and dose, when you assume you are getting a normal medication and safe dosage.

Disability groups have been fighting these laws. I have read accounts from people saying health insurance companies
will tell you they will pay for your assisted suicide, but not your expensive cancer treatment.

I am moderate, not conservative or liberal. Liberals however assume that only conservatives have the oppressive ideas that kill individual rights and bring about hell on earth, but they have them too. Assisted suicide would kill countless poor people unable to afford treatments, it would kill disabled people, and it would eventually kill mentally ill and chronically ill.

What would stop health insurance companies or doctors from deciding you are 'too expensive to keep alive?' And liberals will just look on, with blank stares and dreamy fixed smiles on their faces, saying to themselves 'The world is progressing today. Long live euthanasia.'

[IndigoErth]

:roll: Speaking as one who is rather liberal, I only support it being available to the terminally ill who are suffering, can't be cured, and are genuinely ready to be done with it. It's not right that we'd spare many other creatures from suffering, but not a fellow human...

[plastroncafe]

You have got to let me know what liberal enclaves you are visiting, cuz all the ones I frequent want Single Payer Healthcare. Meaning that right-to-die legislation would be there for the terminally ill who want to die with dignity, and everyone else who just needs Healthcare gets it.

[Sumac]

So this thread is basically

"Don't you dare tell your kids they can be anything they want, 'casue then MY kids will want to be anything THEY want, and that bothers me in a way that I can't express in proper English. I can't use science, as i'm not educated enough, I'm also not a doctor, but i can tell you what is normal. I have all these opinions about what you are feeling, and it's my right to stop you from doing things I don't understand."
Nah this thread is more: "let brainwash kids with propaganda to validate my mental illness that men can be women and women can be men; why are you disagreeing with me this hurts my feefees, you all evil altrights!!"

SUMAC, I think you need to brush up on your post modernism, biology, anthropology, and linguistic skills. Beyond that perhaps look into the work done by Kinsey into human sexuality, as a starter, then push forward and work your way up to Sari van Anders.

Once you've done THAT homework, I'll give you next weeks assignments.
I don't take assignments from disturbed individuals who want to validate their mental sickness by deluding the rest of the world into believing it.

It's like taking humanism lessons from tribe of cannibals. Yeah, they might teach how to flay people alive with as less pain as possible, but it's hardly would be humanistic for the most sane people.

Also, you are the last person who should say anything about others lacking knowledge in the history, logic AND biology AND especially anthropology.

How about you learn normal version of those disciplines, not POMO Tumblr versions?

Same here, that attitude they have gives me the creeps.

They also naively think legalized assisted suicide would not be abused if *enough legal safeguards were in place* but Holland or the Netherlands, what ever the country(s) are, already are moving into euthanasia of children who might be 'assumed' to suffer like some severely disabled children, allowing people with chronic (not terminal, CHRONIC) conditions to have assisted suicide, and people have already know some doctors to decide you are 'suffering' and prescribe you a lethal medication and dose, when you assume you are getting a normal medication and safe dosage.

Disability groups have been fighting these laws. I have read accounts from people saying health insurance companies
will tell you they will pay for your assisted suicide, but not your expensive cancer treatment.

I am moderate, not conservative or liberal. Liberals however assume that only conservatives have the oppressive ideas that kill individual rights and bring about hell on earth, but they have them too. Assisted suicide would kill countless poor people unable to afford treatments, it would kill disabled people, and it would eventually kill mentally ill and chronically ill.

What would stop health insurance companies or doctors from deciding you are 'too expensive to keep alive?' And liberals will just look on, with blank stares and dreamy fixed smiles on their faces, saying to themselves 'The world is progressing today. Long live euthanasia.'
Post-modern Liberalism everyone!

This is the same thing with "trans" thing: if child is confused about themselves let hook them on the meds first and deal with the rest later. Because, calling for the help of psychologist first instead of butchering their body with meds from the start is somehow "evil conversion therapy".

I even seen some liberal retard who was saying that all children should take puberty blockers until they decide their sex.
Those people about to become even more dangerous to society and especially children, than conservatives.

[Vegita-San]

more and more people are not only growing tired of this insanity...but also walking away from it. hence a campaign by the same name.

the more people try to force others into believing what they want, with insults, lack of proof, anger, and just plain nonsense.....the more people will see through this attack on sanity and just ignore it. it's already happening, and hopefully it will continue till some sense of sanity is restored.

[IndigoErth]

Those people about to become even more dangerous to society and especially children, than conservatives.
Right. Think that's kind of impossible. That level of crazy can come in any flavor, but you can't surpass conservative crazy in this day and age; at best it's tied.

[Sumac]

Right. Think that's kind of impossible. That level of crazy can come in any flavor, but you can't surpass conservative crazy in this day and age; at best it's tied.
I can agree with that, somewhat.
Though at the moment the scope and possible ramifications of the left-insanity look like a much bigger risk to the Western society, since other cultures, seemingly don't buy this piece of crap.

Interesting double standards: when kid says they are "transgender" - everyone should believe them, when kid says they are not transgender, even when their parents believe they are, those kids don't know better...why it smells like an agenda and not care about emotions and empathy...hm..?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dkz60SlV4AAECMD.jpg

[IndigoErth]

Interesting double standards: when kid says they are "transgender" - everyone should believe them, when kid says they are not transgender, even when their parents believe they are, those kids don't know better
And this is the point I ask for links. Because I've never heard of that being a thing.

What are your sources, and where is that source getting it from...?



And this is why the conservative side looks more dangerous to those on the left, because we just keep hearing of this level of nuttiness claimed by the right, of how those on the left are so evil or whatever, but have never actually seen it come out of any part of the left we're personally familiar with...so yeah, it just ends up looking like crazy attempts from extremists on the right trying to vilify liberals with absurd lies, thus making the right/conservatives look untrustworthy.

[Sumac]

And this is the point I ask for links. Because I've never heard of that being a thing.

What are your sources, and where is that source getting it from...?



And this is why the conservative side looks more dangerous to those on the left, because we just keep hearing of this level of nuttiness claimed by the right, of how those on the left are so evil or whatever, but have never actually seen it come out of any part of the left we're personally familiar with...so yeah, it just ends up looking like crazy attempts from extremists on the right trying to vilify liberals with absurd lies, thus making the right/conservatives look untrustworthy.
If I give you my sources - you won't believe them, because people like you, despite preaching "openmindedness", are considering all sources that do not align with your worldview, to be untrustworthy.

Thus we are arriving at a stalemate.

As someone with experience with both fanatics and mentally ill, people I'd say it's completely expected that some people in any movement would push for the extreme measures.
However, at the moment, I see lefties extremists to be much more harmful on the whole since they seek to remodel human society according to their vision, which is build on the lack of social experience, ignorance of the history and humanity as a whole.

They are reminding me of the Bolsheviks from Russian Empire, who have created USSR. Those people wanted to create a new breed of humans, but they have succeed only in bringing, what could have been a great country, to ruin, destroying a lot of the legacy of the past, butchering society and enabling double-thinking and hypocrisy on the scale that the world have never seen before.

I've expected some people might learn something from this, but as expected, they did not.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

In other words, just- words. No sources, no proof, nothing but rhetoric. About what would be expected at this point.

[Candy Kappa]

In other words, just- words. No sources, no proof, nothing but rhetoric. About what would be expected at this point.

It's Sumac, all he does is trolling and posts nothing of value on this forum.

[Vegita-San]

Proof first. otherwise it's just words. let the people doing the reading decide if its true or not.

[plastroncafe]

That's not really how facts work, but okay

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/b9/Dax_reaction_to_temporal_investigations_people.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091129204020&path-prefix=en

[Leonardo_thebest]

Proof first. otherwise it's just words. let the people doing the reading decide if its true or not.

What do you want proof of vegetable?

It's Sumac, all he does is trolling and posts nothing of value on this forum.

Why don't the mods deal with him already? His hate speech should bring the ban hammer.

[IndigoErth]

If I give you my sources - you won't believe them, because people like you, despite preaching "openmindedness", are considering all sources that do not align with your worldview, to be untrustworthy.
Well, I disagree with your apparent premise of knowing me well enough - or at all - to make assumptions on what I'd believe or not. (Pretty sure just being liberal isn't enough info.) But whether or not to provide requested sources is your call.

If they're not sound enough sources to share though, then maybe there is reason to assume people won't believe them and shouldn't. (Just tell me that Alex Jones isn't one of them. lol)


For the record, legit facts don't have to be what I want to hear or fit my own 'world view' or sense of morality in order to be accepted as legit. But they have to be facts... not opinions or cultural/religious/personal world views that just upset people when challenged.

[Sumac]

It's Sumac, all he does is trolling and posts nothing of value on this forum.
Someone's salty that they can't fight reality and all they has are the delusions.
And what is your value to this place?

What do you want proof of vegetable?
Insults. How progressive of you.

Why don't the mods deal with him already? His hate speech should bring the ban hammer.
Calling mentally ill people, mentally ill and protecting rights of children and women is not a hate speech.
You are outing yourself like a misogynist with enormous amount of self-entitlement.
In another words: a typical male loser. Be careful, or next thing you will start crying that you are involuntary celibate.

Oh, wait, you have already done something like that (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=60356). Another typical progressive.

[Vegita-San]

If they're not sound enough sources to share though, then maybe there is reason to assume people won't believe them and shouldn't.


which is one reason why i said 'let folks judge themselves if it's true or not'. if he thought people would find his evidence 'flimsy'....who cares? if it's true, it's true. if it's not, it's not....doesn't matter what people think about it. so long as it's posted and out there for people to judge.

just saying you have proof and then refusing to post it comes off just as bad as the people that you are arguing against come off to you.

that probably wasn't worded right, but hopefully the point comes across less confusing!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Vegita, that's probably the most rational thing I've heard you say in a while. And I fully agree. Facts are facts, no matter if they fit someone's world view or not, and someone crying "you wouldn't believe my proof" is just a poor excuse for not putting their money where their mouth us. Put up or shut up, is ultimately what convinces people you're not just blowing hot air. Not you, of course, but in general.

[Vegita-San]

I try to have my moments.

I know I may come off a bit blunt and Harsh to the more sensitive people of today's world.....but that's only because I don't have a dog in any of these fights. I can still see it from my point of view, and other people's point of view..... when the argument is properly written.

Therefore, when I see Bull cough coming from either side, I'm not afraid to call it out for what it is. And not posting your proof because other peoples will denounce it, comes off as supreme bull cough to me ;o).

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not even Star Trek could save this thread...

[DarkFell]

Not even Star Trek could save this thread...
You tried man. You tried.
To be honest, not even the EMH Doctor program could have stopped this, and he wasn't even a good doorstop on-board the 1701 -E ship.
qIslsp2WjDs

[Leonardo_thebest]

Someone's salty that they can't fight reality and all they has are the delusions.
And what is your value to this place?


Insults. How progressive of you.


Calling mentally ill people, mentally ill, is not a hate speech.

Cool, those are the rules? Let's do that then, you narcissistic psychopath with borderline personality disorder.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/3/3d/Phlox_eating_popcorn.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151005101741&path-prefix=en

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Cylons, has there been a favourite captain thread/poll before? Not interesting to enough members maybe?

Re the thread, I'm sure the personal attacks warning wasn't just restricted to that one thread.

I've never done it, but mainly because I know it'll be Kirk. It's ALWAYS Kirk. :tgrumble::tlol:

[newfan]

I've never done it, but mainly because I know it'll be Kirk. It's ALWAYS Kirk. :tgrumble::tlol:

Sorry deleted that last one, decided being against being in a thread which could end up going to the disintegrator …

I thought a lot of the trekkies on here were next gen fans.
Anyway, leaving the thread now :)

[Sumac]

Cool, those are the rules? Let's do that then, you narcissistic psychopath with borderline personality disorder.
Someone who believes that the whole world owns them love and sex and that everyone should accommodate their psychosis and delusions, including little children, shouldn't call out others for being "narcissistic psychopaths".
And "personality disorder"? I am not the one who want to butcher his body for the sake of his "feels".

But in general, "borderline personality disorder"? Just...why? :lol:

You're such joke, man.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Someone who believes that the whole world owns them love and sex and that everyone should accommodate their psychosis and delusions, including little children, shouldn't call out others for being "narcissistic psychopaths".
And "personality disorder"? I am not the one who want to butcher his body for the sake of his "feels".

But in general, "borderline personality disorder"? Just...why? :lol:

You're such joke, man.

I'm playing by your rules, using your logic. I've decided you are mentally ill. You've shown yourself to carry the traits I've ascribed you, and i've diagnosed you as such despite not having any proper training or degree. On a whim, I'm calling you mentally ill.

These are your rules.

[Sumac]

I'm playing by your rules, using your logic. I've decided you are mentally ill. You've shown yourself to carry the traits I've ascribed you, and i've diagnosed you as such despite not having any proper training or degree. On a whim, I'm calling you mentally ill.

These are your rules.
Sorry, man, you are continuing to be a very delusional individual.

I classify you as mentally ill because you are pushing for mental illness to be normal for the human species and also, for your mental illness to be a guide for everyone including little kids.
I do nothing of the sorts, so...your classification is just an insult, as expected.

Also, just so some people stop barking that I have no proves that transcult pushes their toxic ideology to kids. (https://4thwavenow.com/2016/01/18/teen-decides-shes-not-trans-after-all-but-struggles-with-peer-pressure/comment-page-1/)
Also, it will help to prove certain theory.

[plastroncafe]

Clicked so you don't have to:

The purpose of this site is to give voice to an alternative to the dominant trans-activist and medical paradigm currently being touted by the media. Preference is given to commenters who are also gender-skeptical, though respectful questions/comments countering this view will be considered. Please keep your remarks on topic and free of religious dogma of any kind.

[Sumac]

Clicked so you don't have to:
As I said before: if I start present sources, proggies will go all: "those are the wrong sources, we don't believe them".

Well, my theory was correct once more. :lol:

[plastroncafe]

I'll save the mods the "harassment: have told user repeatedly not to engage me in conversation, and yet they persist in doing so" flag.

Your citation is evidence of the existence of a community which self-selects materials so as to foster a safe space for a specific group of people.

That's all it's proof of.
Even the papers the site cites, making the community a secondary source at best, are for correlation studies and as such cannot be used to do make a credible hypothesis of causation.

Have a nice day, and do not quote or attempt to engage with me again.

[Sumac]

I'll save the mods the "harassment: have told user repeatedly not to engage me in conversation, and yet they persist in doing so" flag.

Your citation is evidence of the existence of a community which self-selects materials so as to foster a safe space for a specific group of people.

That's all it's proof of.
Even the papers the site cites, making the community a secondary source at best, are for correlation studies and as such cannot be used to do make a credible hypothesis of causation.

Have a nice day, and do not quote or attempt to engage with me again.
So you can call me out, but I can't call you out?

Wow, your self-entitlement knows no bounds.

Also, having discussion is not a harassment.
But it seems for some people it is, since they can't counter arguments of their opponents, but they still need to somehow shut them down. Typical modern "progressives".
Or should I say "fascists in in a guise of the sheeps"?

[ProphetofGanja]

God good Sumac can you just please **** off for a while and stop irritating everyone in this goddamn forum

[FredWolfLeonardo]

God good Sumac can you just please **** off for a while and stop irritating everyone in this goddamn forum

I am not irritated.

[Vegita-San]

neither am I. just enjoying the tug of war from the sidelines this time around. i don't want to get another nasty gram.

[Andrew NDB]

God good Sumac can you just please **** off for a while and stop irritating everyone in this goddamn forum

I am not irritated.

Yeah, I'm not irritated in the slightest.

Also, it's amusing to see grown adults in their 30s and 40s so pleased with themselves about reporting people on a message board.

[Sumac]

God good Sumac can you just please **** off for a while and stop irritating everyone in this goddamn forum
Why are you so irritated?
Is this topic of any concern of you? If not, why are you here? Why are you displeased with this discourse? Is it something personal or just decided to be whiner whining at whiners? Don't be afraid to tell us, we will understand. :lol:

Besides, lately I am posting in the 2 topics only, so how can I irritate the whole forum is anyone's questions. But apparently some people are not mature enough to handle discourse.

[Candy Kappa]

Also, having discussion is not a harassment.

You're not engaging a discussion, you're just plain old trolling, Mr. 150% more poison:roll:

[Sumac]

You're not engaging a discussion, you're just plain old trolling, Mr. 150% more poison:roll:
Opposing opinion is not a trolling.

[Candy Kappa]

Not what you're doing, and you know it.

[Sumac]

Not what you're doing, and you know it.
I've just posted more than dozen of links in another thread to prove my points.
Apparently it's all part of the trolling scheme.

OK, call me when you neighbor will be revealed to be a reptiloid.

[Andrew NDB]

Here's a fun one:

https://twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1030474699594129414

It looks like a pair of "parents" (the word used loosely) are pressing "social transition" of their autistic kids as early as 4 and are getting worried when their kids do not want to acknowledge that they are trans.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, I'm not sure how a 4-year-old, let alone one that is autistic, even forms too strong of a conscious internal 'identity' in the first place yet, let alone grasps the concept of or is capable of expressing a feeling or belief about being trans.

Little kids are little kids, and their interests and view of themselves largely influenced by what's around them... Speaking from experience from my own early childhood, no kid wants to be the odd one out, and it may make them dislike that aspect of themselves for having to be the one that is "different," but in a case where it's a gender thing, it doesn't indicate that a kid is trans. Nor does a girl being a tomboy, nor a boy with a more nurturing personality.

An older kid who is able to grasp it and knows their own mind and is able to express that they feel that way and have for much of their life, now that's a different story.


Are there legit source links for those screen shots? Sounds too crazy to be true and would be so easy to fake them...

Not that crazy people, including crazy parents, don't exist. Could be something of a variation on Munchausen by proxy syndrome. In which case it would be something legitimately wrong with a minority of parents, not an issue of "omgrd liberal agenda!" that's trying to destroy the world...


Definitely not the same as this "theybies" thing though.

[plastroncafe]

But Boys have to be this.
And Girls have to be that.

And anything else is just wrong wrong wrong.

Gosh, I can't possibly imagine why kids who don't instantaneously fit into This or That running full tilt towards a third option when it presents itself.

I can't help but wonder if I'd have started identifying as something other than female if presented with the option during my own adolescence and adulthood.
Might have saved me a whole lot of self hate if I had.

Of course, then it would have opened me up to a whole new world of hate from without.
But would it have been more than the hate I got from the boys for being the girl who thought she had the right to like what I liked?
Or the hate I got from the girls for being too stupid to know that those shows/books/toys were for boys?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Might have saved me a whole lot of self hate if I had.


Highly doubt you ever stopped self-hating, or ever will.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Highly doubt you ever stopped self-hating, or ever will.

Lol, you with the dig. Is that what Jesus would do? or would he slap you upside the head for being a jackoff?

Your hell is full of people just like you.

Speaking of hate, what the hell is up with this?
https://i.imgur.com/Wm23DU7.png
Why are you raging out so hard?

[AT-Man]

Highly doubt you ever stopped self-hating, or ever will.

In a utopia no one learns self-hatred, or hatred for others.

[IndigoErth]

Why are you raging out so hard?
I'm torn... Is it rage, or just the face people make when they unexpectedly sit on a hairbrush or something else of that nature.

[plastroncafe]

Highly doubt you ever stopped self-hating, or ever will.

Well we know your reading comprehension still works, it's a shame about your empathy.

When we get to Hell, remember I claim top bunk.

[Machias Banshee]

This thread is closed for review.