TMNT girls.

[Jarrah White]

Let's face it, the heros always get the girl. Indiana Jones rescues the girl and James Bond has scored a million times, tons of hot babes in formal dresses! I wouldn't mind seeing the turtles get the girl once in a while. I wouldn't mind seeing them get a female turtle purhaps, so long as they can live up to the standards of the other four. I've heard about Sky, Venis and Mona Lisa, would they be appropriate?

[Stefano]

im not a big fan of venus i think they should stick to the four. aprils hot enough

[Cascadia]

the new TMNT series is based on the original comics. There were no extra mutants in the original series. They added mona lisa in the original series. As for Venis, she was in the next mutation. There were indications from the producers of the new TMNT series that will not be too many mutants, except for the turtles.

[OA]

Yea..definately stick with the four...it'd be kinda hard though to get "A girl" for FOUR turtles...in your examples you had one hero who gets the girl...so to please the four you'd probably new four girls..i think it might be cool if at least one of them found a love interest or something....kinda like Mikey did with Kala the Neutrino back in the old toon...

[heretic888]

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

[Karpo_007]

One of the themes of the TMNT is the fact that they are alone in the world. They won't, and shouldn't "get girls"

[Jarrah White]

Yea..definately stick with the four...it'd be kinda hard though to get "A girl" for FOUR turtles...in your examples you had one hero who gets the girl...so to please the four you'd probably new four girls..i think it might be cool if at least one of them found a love interest or something....kinda like Mikey did with Kala the Neutrino back in the old toon...

Maybe four could get Venis, Mona Lisa and Sky and odd turtle out could get April.

[Cascadia]

just as karpo said, it is better that the TMNT be the only 4 of the species

[Jephael]

It's more than understandable to me why the TMNT can't pro-create, but I seriously don't think they have to be denied any sort of intimate contact with the opposite sex. Heck, even in the comics they guys had a bond with some interesting women. Raph had Lucindra, Mike had his girl in Image and even Don had that alien chick.

[Voltron]

It's an action cartoon. They're supposed to fight, not make out. Besides, girls have cooties.

[Jephael]

::stands back to avoid the inevitable bapping Voltron will get from the fangirls when they see this thread::

[Karpo_007]

Anyone who watches the show should know by know that it's much more than that.

[heretic888]

No, the turtles won't "get girls" at all. At least not in their teen years.

There is a difference between being romatically involved with someone and "bonding" with someone. The turtles have lots of female friends in their adventures. That doesn't mean they're sleeping with any of them.

Now that all non-human species are embraced by Earth civilization in the Mirage storyline, then there is a chance that the turtles will not only "get girls" but also genuinely fit in in society. I think that was a storyarch put in by Pete to add a new dimension to the characters.

[Karpo_007]

It was definetly a bold move from Laird, it really changes pretty much everything in the Turtles lives.

[Nturtle]

One of the themes of the TMNT is the fact that they are alone in the world. They won't, and shouldn't "get girls"
Precisely! That doesn't stop fangirl fan-fiction though... :sweatdro:

I really wonder where Volume 4 is going to go now, there are so many loose ends and signs that the times are changing..... who knows?

[Leo656]

Hey, I'm a guy, and I write stories where they meet people...
let's be a little even-handed here... (grumbles)

Personally I don't find it as much of a mortal sin as others do to think that one or even all of them could somehow meet someone. On one hand, the fact that they're "alone in the world" adds another dimension but on the other hand I'm a firm believer in the idea that any story possibility has worth as long as it is told WELL. I'm sure Laird could, if he wanted to, set the guys up with some chicks and make it believable and something the fans would possibly even like.

It won't happen, but it could, and I don't see it as a bad thing if it did. It depends how it was handled.

[Karpo_007]

Well since the TMNT aren't outsiders in the society anymore, something like that could be possible. But somehow I doubt Laird would go trough with it.

[heretic888]

Well, it will probably be a while before he tries anything like that... especially since their "father" just died, too. Getting chicks are probably the last thing on their mind right now.

[Leo656]

Yeah like I said, I don't think it'll ever happen in Mirage continuity. But I don't think it would "ruin" them if it did happen. It'd just be another story to tell as far as I'm concerned. I think it could be done, and done well, but probably won't be. I don't think it ultimately fits in with Laird's vision. If Eastman were involved still, though, I think the odds could be greater, but hey, we'll never know. :P

[Aztec General]

just as karpo said, it is better that the TMNT be the only 4 of the species

If you remember this was very tragically pointed out in Vol. 1 #28 "Sons of the Silent Age". This is one of the best TMNT issues IMHO.

But hey, maybe Raph wouldn't be so angry if he got laid every once in a while :lol: .

[Relay]

The way of the ninja is a lonely one.

[Kali]

But hey, maybe Raph wouldn't be so angry if he got laid every once in a while :lol: .
I, for one, am willing to test that theory. :evilgrin:

Anyway, I agree that it probably won't happen any time soon in official stories. But then, that's what fan fiction's for. :D And even then, it gets overdone a lot. That "alone in the world" thing is an important theme, and some people go crazy with the "lets set them all up with their perfect dream girl" plots. As a side thing, yeah, but don't do a twenty chapter story with that as the central plot...

Though I feel like a bit of a hypocrite seeing as I'm currently writing an adult fic. :roll:

[Jarrah White]

Now that I think about it, if Leo, Mike, Don and Raph are the only ones of their kind, how are they supposed to breed? You know to keep the species alive, unless they a regular female turtle pregent and hope the offspring will take on after the father.

[Kali]

Now that I think about it, if Leo, Mike, Don and Raph are the only ones of their kind, how are they supposed to breed?
Simple, they aren't. That's part of the tragedy.

[Jarrah White]

Now that I think about it, if Leo, Mike, Don and Raph are the only ones of their kind, how are they supposed to breed?
Simple, they aren't. That's part of the tragedy.

Poor bastards, pitty they don't have Turtle's Nights at strip clubs.

[Karpo_007]

Would they really even feel atracted to other species?

[Jarrah White]

Well I think Don and April make a cute couple.

[Splinter]

Now that I think about it, if Leo, Mike, Don and Raph are the only ones of their kind, how are they supposed to breed?
Simple, they aren't. That's part of the tragedy.
Exactly. In one of the original Mirage Comics [I think Rat King is right with Issue #28], April makes that realization. That when they die, there will be noone to carry on their species. They are the first and and the last of their kind. I don't see that changing, I doubt that the Turtles are going to ask the Oots to mutate some girls for them. And breeding with humans would be impossible, due to the incompatabilty of the DNA.

Here's from Issue #28:
Casey finally manages to snap April out of the trance, admonishing her to hurry lest they lose their patient... but it's too late, the fishwoman has died.

As soon as they notice that they've lost their comrade, the fishmen stop fighting the Turtles. The creatures come on shore and lift the body of their fallen clansman.

"It's over... the last four males of their species... the only four males of their species... just like -"

We see the Turtles watching the fishmen as they carry their last, lost hope back into the waiting waters of the river, and all disappear into its murky depths.

"Omigod - " April mummers.

"What? What is it?" asks Casey.

"Nothing..." April replies, "Just... just hold me Casey..."

In the final panel we see Casey embracing April as the four Turtles stand watching them.

"Hold me tight."

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/28/28.htm

[Relay]

Yeah, I remember that part of Issue #28. Very sad. Well, if the Turtles don't have anyone to breed with, I think the Utroms probably have some of their DNA in storage somewhere. When the Turtles die, the Utroms may clone them so their would be a new group of Turtles to protect the city. That just seems like something the Utroms would do.

[Brinatello]

Archie has already shown us what the future would be for the four turtles. The term "it started with them and it'll end with them" has been used in the thread, but it's similar to what Raph said to his future self. That's why fangirls write fics, like Kali said, to give the guys a chance to be with someone other than April. It doesn't have to be just having sex. It could be just a taste of what having a girl is like and then end it there to let the readers decide for themselves!

Society nowadays is about men and women getting married, having kids, having a house, a dog, and a happy life. That's all I ever see on TV shows is perfect this and perfect that. Well, when you look at the comic book world, not just TMNT alone, you don't see Picture Perfect families. Ever. The great part about comics is the action, drama, suspence, and thrill of the story lines. If the TMNT all settled down and left the world of crime, it would get very very dull and literally turn into one of those TV shows! You could write a fic where one turtle settles down but does keep the life of a crime fighter. It'd be hard on him, but hey, you gotta keep the action alive! The TMNT show is all about action...um, crime fighting kick butt action...not the other action. :P

I've looked over my fics and yeah, I'm guilty of having the guys fall in love with human girls, but that's as far as it goes. I either end it too soon, have the girl die, or she moves away. I never let them hang around long enough to have a relationship. I think that's mostly because I wouldn't know how to write that in while keeping it interesting at the same time. Peter is opening a new world for his creations and I'm curious to see which direction he'll go. As long as he enjoys writing the books and keeping a constant vigil on the show, we'll be seeing quite a bit of them, girls or no girls! :D

[Kali]

Exactly. Keep in mind that "breed" and "mate" aren't exactly the same. I honestly don't know if any of the guys would even be sexually attracted to a human girl. Have emotional feelings for, yeah, but the basic biology could be a problem. However, seasonal "urges" can be really strong in some species. :evilgrin:

But nature adapts, and I see no reason why it couldn't happen, if The Powers That Be (aka Laird) allowed it.

[Shellfox]

In the Archie universe Raph was pretty well attached to Ninjara through out most of the books run, not to mention he seemed to be married to Mezcal in the future. So the idea of them being alone is not set in stone in all realities

[Anarky]

Yea..definately stick with the four...it'd be kinda hard though to get "A girl" for FOUR turtles...in your examples you had one hero who gets the girl...so to please the four you'd probably new four girls..i think it might be cool if at least one of them found a love interest or something....kinda like Mikey did with Kala the Neutrino back in the old toon...

Maybe four could get Venis, Mona Lisa and Sky and odd turtle out could get April.

who's sky?

[Nturtle]

Hey, I'm a guy, and I write stories where they meet people...
let's be a little even-handed here... (grumbles)


Sorry Leo, I was admittedly generalizing.

Anyway, I still would be dissapointed if it happened

[Jarrah White]

Yea..definately stick with the four...it'd be kinda hard though to get "A girl" for FOUR turtles...in your examples you had one hero who gets the girl...so to please the four you'd probably new four girls..i think it might be cool if at least one of them found a love interest or something....kinda like Mikey did with Kala the Neutrino back in the old toon...

Maybe four could get Venis, Mona Lisa and Sky and odd turtle out could get April.

who's sky?

http://www.geocities.com/raphaella_xx/SKYSKETCH.html

[Misfit]

Very well said, Brina! I agree with you. I'm writing a fic right now which involves one of the turtles falling for a human girl...IMHO good romance fics don't always need lots of sex/sexual references in them to work. In my story the most turtle and girl ever do is hug but that doesn't mean they aren't in love.

As far as girl turtles...NO THANK YOU!! Keep them away! I won't even read fics that have female turtle characters...I just can't stand the idea ofgirl turtles, it really turns me off. Venus was a true abomination, a really bad idea that shoudn't be repeated, IMHO. *shudders*

[MW8979]

I think that the turtles' "sterility" as it were is definately part of the appeal, because it makes them unique. If they could reproduce, there would be many generations of TMNT, and that would just make it so mundane and boring. So yeah, I think the whole "loneliness anguish" theme works for them.

[Misfit]

I think the whole "loneliness angish" theme works for them. Yeah that's the main thing I like about the TMNTs, that they are totally unique, there's no others like them...if more turtles were added to the four (like Venus) it would really ruin the appeal, at least for me.

[HorseTechie]

I totally agree too. Makes them more special.

And then.. I leave my fantasies to myself. :evilgrin:

[Meira-Bates]

Yea..definately stick with the four...it'd be kinda hard though to get "A girl" for FOUR turtles...in your examples you had one hero who gets the girl...so to please the four you'd probably new four girls..i think it might be cool if at least one of them found a love interest or something....kinda like Mikey did with Kala the Neutrino back in the old toon...

Maybe four could get Venis, Mona Lisa and Sky and odd turtle out could get April.

who's sky?

http://www.geocities.com/raphaella_xx/SKYSKETCH.html

If I am not mistaken...that's what you call an original characrter...and that means it won't happen X.x

[Kali]

As far as girl turtles...NO THANK YOU!! Keep them away! I won't even read fics that have female turtle characters...I just can't stand the idea ofgirl turtles, it really turns me off. Venus was a true abomination, a really bad idea that shoudn't be repeated, IMHO. *shudders*
I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but isn't that a little harsh?

[Mouse]

everybody is entitled to opinions and the truth is stranger than fiction. i mean no one denies the fact that the TMNT are going to be fatherless, mateless, and speciesless for all time...depending on where the comics stand. but let us not refuse them what chances they might have.

personally, i believe that the turtles deserve at least some companionship. so, nothing would happen but at least we'd all get the ability to see the TMNT have someone before it is all over. said and done in fact.

sterile true but there is always more than one way to skin the cat.

[HorseTechie]

Heh.. yes, I let Mary sues and Gary Stus remain in fanfic-dom. I got no problem with tme as long as the story is written well.

But when it comes to cannon Mirage universe, I prefer for them to be the 4 lonely bachelors Laird intended them to be. As far as Venus goes... that remains only to the TNM universe, and anything that happens there stays there. I wouldn't really want to cross that over into Mirage comic verse or the cartoons or anything.

[Splinter]

As far as Venus goes... that remains only to the TNM universe, and anything that happens there stays there. I wouldn't really want to cross that over into Mirage comic verse or the cartoons or anything.
As much as I hate Laird for the way that he treats the fans, I will give him that. He's vowed that Venus will never again see the light of day. Unless it's a mention in a large coffee table like book of the history of TMNT. So Laird gets a thumbs up from me on that one. :)

[Karpo_007]

He making it possible for the fans to have a Great New TV series and soon 2 on going comics, I think he treats the fans pretty well.

[Misfit]

I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but isn't that a little harsh?


Eh, I've never been good at hiding my emotions, especially over something I really can't stand. TNM/Venus brings out the worst in me rant-wise I'm afraid. :goofygri:

[heretic888]

I'll say it again.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

'Nuff said.

[Splinter]

He making it possible for the fans to have a Great New TV series and soon 2 on going comics, I think he treats the fans pretty well.
Only cause it lines his pockets. He still treats them like crap, in most of his letters columns and the ways he speaks about them. There's a difference between making money off the fans, and actually treating them well. :)

[Jephael]

::sighs:: Look, I can see why people feel strongly against the idea of the guys being able to hook up with girls and all, but when you think about it, we have to deal with the need for love in most of our lives.

The whole reason behind this argument is because most of us have known what's it's like to feel alone, so we sympathise with the turtles which is why we want what happens for us in our personal lives to happen for them as well.

[Leo656]

Karpo:
Yes, Laird treats the fans well by giving us a lot of great new TMNT stuff to enjoy. On the other hand, he doesn't seem to deal well with people on an interaction level, and seems to take it personally if there's anything someone doesn't like about "his" product. Thus, I agree with VS in saying that Laird's relationship with his audience isn't the greatest.

Heretic: Is there any reason why you seem to need to repeat yourself constantly? We heard you the first time. In fact, you already said in your last post that you were just going to be repeating yourself with this one. Why? We heard you the first time. Duly noted. Move along, move along. Nobody's arguing with you, people are just discussing the scenario in its entirety, not the likelihood of it ever happening in "canon". Chill out already.

[Karpo_007]

Only cause it lines his pockets. He still treats them like crap, in most of his letters columns and the ways he speaks about them. There's a difference between making money off the fans, and actually treating them

Vintage Splinter, do you really think Mirage is making a big profit out of TMNT comic series? Comics get a big part of their profit from ads, how many do you see in new Mirage books? They are not making big bucks out of it. He makes it for himself, and for the fans.

And do you think he has to be involved in the new show? He could do the same thing wich he did with the old show, just aprove anything and take the money. But he wants to be involved, He does it for the fans, so that we get the best TMNT toon possible. And his involvement really shows.


I agree with Leo, he does not take negative feedback very well. But I can relate, if I would get people constantly whining about something I do, I'd begin to be pised off too. Especially since the people who really don't like Lawsson's art are a minority. You can't please everyone. But agreed, he isn't the greatest people person, but thanks to him the TMNT is back once again.

[Leo656]

Correction: They're a minority amongst TMNT fans, most of which don't read many comics besides TMNT. In the opinion of most people IN GENERAL, he's not all that great.

I've said before and I'll say again: I'm glad the TMNT are back, and I'm thankful to Peter Laird for bringing them back, but not everything about either the new show, the new Mirage book, OR the new DW book is perfect, and we as fans should be allowed to air our grievances without fear that he'll either snap at us or cancel the TMNT. That's all I'm sayin'.

[Karpo_007]

Well do people outside TMNT fans like older Mirage art either? I still think the original Eastman/Laird art beats every other comic art I've seen. Evey issue was a piece of art, when I was reading them I could spend even 10 minutes[!] looking at one page. The new art is no where near that, but it gets the job done.

I agree that he could be more polite when it comes to ctiticism, but when people create something big like that, they tend to stick with their own views. I have often used George Lucas in comparison, if fans got to decide, the new episodes would be something completetely diffrent, but it's Lucas' world, and he does what he wan'ts with it. Same goes with Laird, of course it differs since people ctisize the Art, wich Laird isn't responsible for. He probably feels bad for Jim.

[Leo656]

If you can tell me, with a straight face, that Jim Lawson's art is better than Alex Ross's, you're biased. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

http://www.a-arca.com/gibi/news/images/gibi_news_liga_alexross02.jpg

Some other comic artists you might want to check out are Dan Jurgens, Ed McGuinness, Jerry Ordway, John Byrne, and Ed Benes. Some would recommend Todd McFarlane but meh, I don't really care for him.

I can't speak for the consensus, but most non-TMNT fans that I personally know do not, in fact, like Lawson's style, past or present. Much of it stems from the fact that while his TMNT are fairly well-done, most of his human beings tend to look overly simplified and almost identical to one another. I know that's always been my biggest issue with it. If the book was in color it probably wouldn't be quite as noticeable.

As for Laird, yeah I imagine he probably feels bad for Jim since the two are friends. Ah well, as long as people have their opinions, they're going to express them, like it or not. Still amuses me how the letters in the last couple issues have been almost unanimously full of praise though. Snicker.

[That Matt Guy]

If you can tell me, with a straight face, that Jim Lawson's art is better than Alex Ross's, you're biased. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

http://www.a-arca.com/gibi/news/images/gibi_news_liga_alexross02.jpg

Well, he did kind of go overboard with the Flash's crotch.

[Leo656]

:lol: I hate you...

[tOkKa]

-->> http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/04/04cover.jpghttp://www.marsimport.com/images/PALEOT01A.JPG
..Jim Lawson is extremly damm good at what he does.. he is with Mirage cuz he is a stale mate there and uh yeh.. he is a pretty damm good artist. There is no f7ckin' point me .."WELL GEE WHIZZ..Alex ross.. boy-howdee.. he shure do paint 'Purdier pitchers.. n' draws lots bettir than that Lawson feller.."
..Awsome.. man.. you can like all that 'til ya want. It's great.. both men are legeands by now in each of thier own rights.. and everyone can bicker until they are blue in the face about it..

The fact is.. Mr.Laird likes Mr.Lawson's work.. ALOT.. Jim Is doin' pretty damm well.. plenty of my non-TMNT friends like his work simply cuz it is quirky the way it is.. or is 'TMNT' the only thing we're gonna compare??

..What about 'Guzzi' ?? What about 'Paleo' ?? 'Dino Island' ..'Planet Racer Novels' and by now the his old classic 'Bade Biker and Orson' ..

..the man has got a great body of work.. and he's continually been working with Mirage cuz he is simply damm good and has proven himself.
Fine.. don't like his work.. he knows his sh8t.. he get's it done.. he is Mirage Alumni..

..i'm sorry.. but that's just how it is!! :goofygri:

[tOkKa]

-->> :D ..o yeh.. Hi,Sean.. how ya doin',buddy??

[Leo656]

The difference is that Lawson's talent is far more weighted towards certain areas. He's what I refer to as a "niche artist". He can draw turtles and dinosaurs and all that no problem, and do it well, but ask him to draw something as simple as a human being and you might as well have asked him to draw with a blindfold on. And having grown up on thousands of comics and hundreds of thousands of artists, I guess I'm just a harsh judge of talent. I shouldn't have to give myself eyestrain trying to tell April and Casey apart, even if the comic is in black and white.

And the reason it bothers me SO MUCH is because I know a LOT of people, friends of mine, who refuse to buy the Mirage book because they don't like the art. I want the book to succeed as much as possible, and it's a shame that a lot of people can't look past the art to get into the story. But that's how it goes, and because of that I honestly believe that, Mirage "purity" or no, the book would do better if an artist with a more "accessible" style were on it. My comic shop still has lots of copies left over of issues going back to number 6. And that makes me nervous.

Just to be fair though I will say I once saw some TMNT colored pencil drawings of Lawson's that I liked.

But I long ago gave up on the idea that anything would change art-wise on the book, so I kind of just ignore it. I've seen worse, after all. But whenever someone says Lawson's art is "the best they've ever seen" I honestly wonder just how many comic books that person actually reads. ((Shrug))

And I'm doin' just fine, Dave, good t'see you here. :D

[Karpo_007]

Read what I said, I said old Mirage done be Eastman and Laird, never said a about Lawsson's old art. I said I think Eastman and Laird drawn issues are the best drawn comics I have seen, better than the Image you posted.

I have read Amazing Spider-man for 15 years, Ultimate for it's entire run, and when I was younger I read Superman/Batman. I do think that Old Mirage beats them all.

But I do love Lawssons older TMNT art too. It isn't on the same level that Eastman/Lairds' but still great. I don't know why his style has changed so much over the years.

There's few pieces of Eastman And Laird's art from the official site:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/10/1004.gifhttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/raph/raph03.gif
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/01/0103.gifhttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/50/5002.jpg

If your friends hate Lawsson's art, Do they hathe E/l's art also? Thats what I consider best comic boo art, not mass produced mainstream comics, they just lack the personal touch. Dislike for Lawssons new style I can understand, but if your friends wouldn't like Eastman/Laird art either, then TMNT is not for them.

As for the old Lawsson style:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/19/1903.jpghttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/20/2003.jpg
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/21/2101.jpghttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/51/5103.jpg

While It's not as good as E/L's, I think thats Return to New York saga is still one of the best drawn comic stories. And the one page from City at War shows that he can draw humans.

Finally, Lawsson's New Style:


http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/04/0402.gifhttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/08/0804.jpg
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/11/1101.jpghttp://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/04/0401.gif

Ok, volume 4 is clearly inferior to Lawsson's older work. Everytime I red the older issues I wonder why it has chanhed so much. But it still has the "Mirage look" in it. I wonder, if you toally hate Lawsson's new art, can you like Mirage's older art either?

[GK Punk]

Well, I hate lawson's art, old and new and I like The Eastman And Laird stuff so yeah, if you hate Lawson you can still like the old mirage stuff.

And I hate to say it, but I've seen several Indie artists that can draw better than lawson or Eastman/Laird.

It's not that Im talking trash just for the sake of talking trash, but it's the truth. In my eyes, something is not automatically good just 'cause it has the TMNT name on it. (Not saying you're that way Karpo, but alot of people are)

[Karpo_007]

Well you could be right, TMNT is the only indie comic I have read. Point is that I do like Mirage's indie style much better than mainstream comics.

[Leo656]

Oops, I must admit I didn't catch the distinction you mentioned regarding E and L as opposed to Lawson the first time I read it (I didn't sleep much last night), and I do think their art is a lot better than Lawson's. Not my favorite either, but better. I definitely can't hate on them.

As for my friends, most of them haven't seen many Mirage comics in general (they never sold them much around here) so they only know of Lawson, particularly his newer stuff.

I've always been of the opinion that Lawson's art was better years ago as well; again, not amongst my favorites, but more recently it seems as if the book is rushed out to meet the deadline rather than the amounts of detail he used to put into his work. And as you can see right there in what you posted, all that detail DID used to be there. Lately it's just so generic, dare I say even kind of sloppy (certain things, like April having the nose of a punch-drunk boxer in some panels).

As for Alex Ross, he sketches and paints all his work himself (and even his sketches are absolutely amazing) so one could never accuse him of lacking a personal touch. :) See, I guess it's just that I really like realism and detail in comic art, and the artists I like tend to cater to that style, particularly Jurgens, Ordway and Ross. Ross in particular is such a stickler for detail that he uses models as a reference to make sure every frame and detail is exact. I wasn't a fan of Ed McGuinness at first because his style is so overblown and cartoony compared to some others, but over time it won me over because it's just so dynamic.

Diff'rent strokes for different folks, as usual.

[GK Punk]

That I can understand, Mainstream art isn't for everybody. It can be too "Formula" at times. I think it has to do with the fact that After the penciller does the original work, The Inkers/Computers/Digital Coloring comes in and makes it look all alike. (I Knew some "Pros" at Studio XD and have heard horror stories about what happens to the original art.)

With Indie books, it's more of a one man/woman operation most of the time. They have to put more work in to each book/chapter they do.

I've seen several Indie artists go from "Good" To "Great" By the end of a series' run. With Lawson it went from "okay" to eh.. Less than spectacular I'll just say.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah, I have never been much into realism. What I ment with the non personal art is Mainly most of mainstream comics where over 5 people are working on it, it just loses something. Good examples would be both Spider-man series I read. The art looks good, but it also looks mass produced.

Like I jave said many times, Volume 4 art isn't anything special. I don't love it, like I love old Mirage art, but It gets the job done. I'm glad that there will be a new Tales of the TMNT series, I would like to see the original Mirage crew do TMNT again. Especially Mike Dooney and A.C. Farley.

PS. Man, did we get this thread off topic again...

[GK Punk]

:lol: that tends to happen quickly around here.

[Karpo_007]

Yep.

[Leo656]

I wouldn't mind if it got split into a "Comic Book Artists Discussion" thread if it came down to it. :)

And I'm looking forward to "Tales" for just that reason... I'm not a fan of Lawson's art, but there are other artists I do enjoy who are going to be working on that book. A little variety is nice, especially when the status quo aint all that great. It's like how I can't wait for the new creative teams to take over on the Supeman books next year; the current writers and artists are lousy. Gives me something to look forward to.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah, I don't have power in this section hopefully someone splits this.

I also like the fact Tales can tell stories about the younger TMNT, It's interesting where the new storyline is going, But I also enjoyed the "outsiders of society" theme.

[Buslady]

Raph should alwasy get the girl hehehehehe :wink: I'll put this back on topic...

I'm writing a story where Raph does get a girl but she's human not mutant, it is placed just after the events of movie 2. He rescues her (like always) from a would be rapist and she treates him like any other person and he just melts. I have to mention his state of mind isn't exactly the norm, someone mentioned those 'strong seasonal urges'...well studly isn't exempt from it just because he's a mutated creature, and being the first time experiencing this increase in hormones he takes everything to the extreme...as usual. So he falls for her and well.....that's not the whole story and it's not one of the "normal" family life stories either. I've had Donatello attack the DNA question, Mikey defends Raph's growing up experiences and Leo's just pissed because he's - #1 a little jealous (he aint such a perfect son after all, he snores too) and #2 he doesnt want the group to break up and he's worried that this might all do it.
It's on FF.net and so far my fellow fangirls seem to like it after 9 chapters.

[Misfit]

Buslady, your story sounds great...do you have a direct link to it that you could opst. I'm a lazy thing, I hate seaching for stuff.

[Cascadia]

buslady....your story is excellent

[Buslady]

Buslady, your story sounds great...do you have a direct link to it that you could opst. I'm a lazy thing, I hate seaching for stuff.
go to www.buslady.com and you can read it there :-) hit fanfic and you'll see it.

buslady....your story is excellent

thanks, now im wondering how many on here read my story?
didja read my silly teenage mutant ninja squirtles??? :-P

This is my first fic too, I have a professional writer friend who's encouraged me more to keep writing; he writes drwho and other SF stuff.

[impetus]

If you remember this was very tragically pointed out in Vol. 1 #28 "Sons of the Silent Age". This is one of the best TMNT issues IMHO.
Dang it, he beat me to it. I was gonna say the same.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/28/2804.jpg

[Jarrah White]

If you remember this was very tragically pointed out in Vol. 1 #28 "Sons of the Silent Age". This is one of the best TMNT issues IMHO.
Dang it, he beat me to it. I was gonna say the same.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/28/2804.jpg

Can't read the tiny font in the comic.

[Misfit]

go to www.buslady.com and you can read it there hit fanfic and you'll see it.
Thanks, Buslady. I'll visit right now. :)

[Lisardo]

::sighs:: Look, I can see why people feel strongly against the idea of the guys being able to hook up with girls and all, but when you think about it, we have to deal with the need for love in most of our lives.

The whole reason behind this argument is because most of us have known what's it's like to feel alone, so we sympathise with the turtles which is why we want what happens for us in our personal lives to happen for them as well.

After reading all these posts, and seeing all the reasons, I havta agree with Jeph. I myself am a single, hopeless romantic so I, in a way wouldn't mind seeing one or more of the turtles find a nice female character(s). But nothting serious, no more serious than Sonic and Amy on Sonic X. Like an attraction, from time to time and that's all. Or just enuff that a girl would say something, "Hey you're cute!" That'd make my day! And I agree, I'm more with the idea of complicated love relationships; the Turtles with human girls. *see avatar, heehee* I don't like the idea of female mutant turltes with them as much. Guess I'm just not used to that. And I also think that in the new series that April and Don would be make a cute and compatible couple, moreso than April and Casey *barf* I never did much like APril and Casey together, I always thought she was better off with Raph in the movie. But then again, complicated, and what they call 'impossible' love themes always excite me.

I'll quit rambling on since alot of you don't seem to be romantic types and don't think that it's a good idea for the turtles to meet and to just have a measly 'attraction' with a girl(s). But I know it will never happen in the public TMNT world (too bad). Well like some of you others said, that's where my imagination comes in and that's why I read fanfiction (have thought of my own stories about this kinda stuff too, just haven't written it down tho) :)

[Cascadia]

buslady....your story is excellent

thanks, now im wondering how many on here read my story?
didja read my silly teenage mutant ninja squirtles??? :-P

This is my first fic too, I have a professional writer friend who's encouraged me more to keep writing; he writes drwho and other SF stuff.

I have read your silly teenage mutant ninja squirtles....I was rolling around laughing.

[Buslady]

If you remember this was very tragically pointed out in Vol. 1 #28 "Sons of the Silent Age". This is one of the best TMNT issues IMHO.


I remeber that! It was very very sad.

[tOkKa]

-->> http://home.no.net/reallife/new/cards/squirtle.jpg

..i got a thing fer squirtles..


.. as far as the Lawson 'thing'
.. if anything ..his work has matured and evolved.. nich or not.. it really wouldn't f7ckin' matter.. the man has made his mark..if you like it or not.

..you all let me know when you make your 'mark'.. send me a PM.. i'll start plannin' your 'congratulations party' ..

.. he's damm good .. illustrator,writer,painter,designer ..and all around nice guy.. i'm pretty passionate about his work.. cuz he also saved my life..

..Ya know.. if you hate his work so much.. THEN WHY T.F. are you buying it in the first place?? :x

..Your opinions are your opinions.. and mine are mine.. and mine aren't your problem .. but gee.. this debate is fried..i've been arguing this damm same argument for years now//..and i'm pretty fried but still pretty sound in what i say .. so ok, ..if you wanna step up to the plate.. Let's go!! did i mention i'm schizophrenic?? We are!! :evilgrin:

[GK Punk]

If that was at me, I don't buy the new TMNT because I hate his work so much.

[Leo656]

Nah I'm pretty sure my buddy Dave was referring to me. We're cool like that. :D

I can't speak for anyone else, but I buy it even though I don't like the art because I'm a fan and I want to do my part to help support the franchise, even though I may not like all of it. It might not be perfect, but it's TMNT and that's good enough for me. Plus I'm a collector and a completist and it'd bug me a lot if I didn't. So yeah, I'unno. I need beer.

[Karpo_007]

The way I see it, TMNT fans read it for the story, weather they liked the art or not.

[HorseTechie]

If you can tell me, with a straight face, that Jim Lawson's art is better than Alex Ross's, you're biased. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

http://www.a-arca.com/gibi/news/images/gibi_news_liga_alexross02.jpg
Well, he did kind of go overboard with the Flash's crotch.

You know.. I have to agree. Everyone there seems to have a rather shapely package. Gah. It's almost *muffle merf* :goofygri:

I think I will stick to George Pratt as far as kickass comic artists go. And the better Dreamwave artists. Yes... I'm wierd, I rather look at TMNT with bulging arm and leg muscles... than superheroes in really *tight*... tights! :lol: :goof:

Or Venus, Michael Dooney style, with her tits and buttcheeks. To get this back on topic. :wink:

[Mouse]

ok so how does a sock in the drawers equal to the topic of TMNT n girls.....????????

:roll:

[Leo656]

I'll tell you how, wiseguy. Karpo, myself, and a few others started yet another debate about comic book artists, which led to posting pictures of artists' work we like. I asked if the topic should be split, and it never was. We went OT. It happens. Don't roll your eyes at me, I'm in no mood.

Word of advice, my friend: If you're gonna get all uppity every time something goes off-topic, you're on the WRONG message board.

EDIT: HT, Alex Ross often uses models in costumes to achieve maximum realism in his work. If it looks the way it does, that's because that's how it looks in real life. Take it from a guy who used to wrestle: spandex is tight. Very, very tight. Is it really necessary to point it out? :P

[impetus]

calm down dicaprio
mouse I noticed you're a college bum in KS... where at?

[Leo656]

:lol: Boy I done told you to watch it with that DiCaprio stuff...

Wait... Leo's not even my real name anyway... the hell...

[Pizza Face]

I dont see why they all cant share april

[heretic888]

I dont see why they all cant share april

:roll:

[tOkKa]

grunger_kittie Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:44 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was at me, I don't buy the new TMNT because I hate his work so much.

-->> :roll: ..hell no..that wasn't at you or Sean..in general i will stick up for Mr.Lawson's work with as much bravado as i can..

..my opinions maybe meaning less to you and in all youse guys' defence.. you gave reasons to back up your opinions other that ..
"Jim Lawson sucks!"


..like maw always said tho' ..opinions are like a55 holes.. 9.5 outta 10 people have 'em..

//

..naw.. i got better things ta do than go pickin' on people.. but i'm gonna stick for what i beleive in.. and that includes the artist and the man.. Jim Lawson..
..and .. .. to keep on topic..
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/56/56cover.jpg

..Karai can use my sorry a55 as target practice anytime.. :goofygri: <3 <3 <3

[Buslady]

If you can tell me, with a straight face, that Jim Lawson's art is better than Alex Ross's, you're biased. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

http://www.a-arca.com/gibi/news/images/gibi_news_liga_alexross02.jpg
Well, he did kind of go overboard with the Flash's crotch.

You know.. I have to agree. Everyone there seems to have a rather shapely package. Gah. It's almost *muffle merf* :goofygri:

I think I will stick to George Pratt as far as kickass comic artists go. And the better Dreamwave artists. Yes... I'm wierd, I rather look at TMNT with bulging arm and leg muscles... than superheroes in really *tight*... tights! :lol: :goof:

Or Venus, Michael Dooney style, with her tits and buttcheeks. To get this back on topic. :wink:

HELL IF they can DRAW heroine's all skinny and with big bazookas, they SHOULD draw the GUYs very studly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! heheh

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

On Topic: I would LOVE for all the TMNT to have girlfriends and I was a HUGE fan of both the Mike/Kala pairing and the Leo/Lotus pairing in the Old toon.

Off-Topic: I like Lawson's early art. And, those colored pencil drawings on "Blast From The Past" are BREATHTAKING but, his Volume 4 work is kinda blah.

I think Eastman and Laird are the best Mirage artists, closely followed by Michael Dooney!

BTW I can't believe you're talking about indie comic artists, and never even mentioned ME. **pouts** :cry: Well, here's what I bring to the party:

http://kittie.onlinecomics.biz/tetsu/sample_ichi.jpg http://kittie.onlinecomics.biz/tetsu/sample_ni.jpg

http://kittie.onlinecomics.biz/tetsu/sample_san.jpg http://kittie.onlinecomics.biz/tetsu/sample_shi.jpg
(C)2003 Brendan Lukens

These are from an upcoming project of mine which was suppossed to launch tonight but will launch sometime this week instead. The Light Blue pencil-work will not appear in the finished product

[The Defibrillator]

OOH OOH A SNEAK PEAK!! AH CAN'T WAIT!

[Mouse]

I'll tell you how, wiseguy. Karpo, myself, and a few others started yet another debate about comic book artists, which led to posting pictures of artists' work we like. I asked if the topic should be split, and it never was. We went OT. It happens. Don't roll your eyes at me, I'm in no mood.

Word of advice, my friend: If you're gonna get all uppity every time something goes off-topic, you're on the WRONG message board.

EDIT: HT, Alex Ross often uses models in costumes to achieve maximum realism in his work. If it looks the way it does, that's because that's how it looks in real life. Take it from a guy who used to wrestle: spandex is tight. Very, very tight. Is it really necessary to point it out? :P

Leo you're not mad at me are you:( i didn't mean to make you mad:(

Impetus...I'm a Parsons chick in Labette County:) and me in college:)

[Savanti Romero]

On a related note, I'd like to comment on the overuse of a derogatory term that I really think we should say "Good riddance!" to -"suck." For a while I have been getting tired of hearing this term, but what really pushed me over the edge was another online comment about Jim's art which went something like this: "Lawson's art SUCKS!!! But I like the way he draws the Turtles, and Splinter...and how he draws backgrounds, and vehicles... oh yeah, he draws buildings and monsters really well...and I like how he draws action sequences. But ... his art SUCKS!!!" (Note: My paraphrasing really doesn't do justice to the silliness of the wording of the original comment.) It occured to me after reading this- "What the heck does suck mean, after all?" In this case (and far too many others), it apparently means anything, and thus nothing at all.

Using "suck" to describe something in this way is purely lazy. It shows that you don't have either the energy or the intellectual capacity (or both) to actually THINK about what you are criticizing and exercise appropriate vocabulary to get your ideas across.


-Peter Laird

From issue #11 Volume 4


I thought this was a nice comment.

[Karpo_007]

Indeed.

[Leo656]

Mouse - No I was just cranky that day and replied in a more sarcastic tone than usual. Nothin' personal. :)

[Mouse]

Leo...it cool, besides it isn't everday that i get called a guy:P
considering i am a girl:)

much love to you though;)

[Leo656]

One of my worst habits is referring to everyone of either gender as "man," "dude", "bro" and "guy". It's just less work than having to tailor my barbs to be gender-specefic.

Me: "That's messed up bro."
Mary: "DUDE, I'm your girlfriend, I'm NOT 'BRO'."
Me: "Yes you are. Bro."

:lol:

[GodzFire]

Mouse :goofygri: (there was no kissy face)


So......back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC.......... :P

[Kiss_My_Shell]

Well,I write romance fan fics a lot.Well,sometimes.Okay,all the time.Anyway!!! *slaps herself*


I like the fact that they could have girlfriends,but then again, I love making my own charaters,or me to fall in love with one of them :P

[Misfit]

me to fall in love with one of them

You do that too? :P

[Savanti Romero]

Wow. I've never had fantasies like that. Oh wait, I'm a guy, but I did have a bit of a crush on April when I was little. :)

[Kali]

I like the fact that they could have girlfriends,but then again, I love making my own charaters,or me to fall in love with one of them :P
You do that too? LOL I'm sure many fangirls do.

While I have romance in many of my fics, it's never the main focus. Well, maybe in a couple parts, and a few of my characters have decided to fall in love behind my back before. (Isn't that irritating?)

[impetus]

this guy drives them wild:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:-mlIzJUp6DQC:movieweb.com/movie/masterdisguise/cog.jpg http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:G9giT5rbEdwC:images.etonline.com/Media/master2_020729_columbia.jpg
yessir, the turtle-lovin women adore him!

[Machias Banshee]

:blanksta:

Thats....disturbing...

[Spike The Xenomorph]

oh! & I thought Venus was Leo's sistah

Oh & Agreed, April was cute but I had more of a crush on the girl w/ the glasses

[azure turtle]

oh! & I thought Venus was Leo's sistah
Hmm... I think that was the general idea when Venus first showed up. But then the show introduced the idea that the TMNT (plus Venus) weren't blood related. *shrug*

[Spike The Xenomorph]

ok, thanks

[Shellfox]

oh! & I thought Venus was Leo's sistah
Hmm... I think that was the general idea when Venus first showed up. But then the show introduced the idea that the TMNT (plus Venus) weren't blood related. *shrug*
I still find that rather odd, she was around for what a day or less when Leo said they weren't realated, how did he know? So the 4 guys weren't related doesn't mean she wasn't relaed to one of them, I dought Don had gone to teh trouble to run a DNA test on Venus with teh entire mess with teh Foot, Splinters Coma and the Dragons, for all he knew he was hitting on his Sister :lol:

[heretic888]

I still find that rather odd, she was around for what a day or less when Leo said they weren't realated, how did he know? So the 4 guys weren't related doesn't mean she wasn't relaed to one of them, I dought Don had gone to teh trouble to run a DNA test on Venus with teh entire mess with teh Foot, Splinters Coma and the Dragons, for all he knew he was hitting on his Sister

Actually, what *really* happened is that the producers of the show thought it might be a cool idea to have one of the TMNT (namely Leo) have a chance with Venus. It was stupid, and corny, and unlikely.... but they put it in anyway, as evidenced by the "ooh, he's got cooties!!" romance seen between the two characters. Very corny.

[Shellfox]

I still find that rather odd, she was around for what a day or less when Leo said they weren't realated, how did he know? So the 4 guys weren't related doesn't mean she wasn't relaed to one of them, I dought Don had gone to teh trouble to run a DNA test on Venus with teh entire mess with teh Foot, Splinters Coma and the Dragons, for all he knew he was hitting on his Sister

Actually, what *really* happened is that the producers of the show thought it might be a cool idea to have one of the TMNT (namely Leo) have a chance with Venus. It was stupid, and corny, and unlikely.... but they put it in anyway, as evidenced by the "ooh, he's got cooties!!" romance seen between the two characters. Very corny.
I know thats why they did it, but from an in show stand point, the line doesn't really fit
And I still half think Raph was her brother, can't explain it just do

[Mouse]

i think that the tmnt deserve someone...especially after all the hell they' been through. regardless the whole idea that they can't breed.

so is it safe to say that much?

[impetus]

NO!!! HAVEN'T YOU READ ANYTHING I'VE POSTED?!?

LoL, only doin this b/c it's Mouse and she'll let me get away with it. :lol:
But I think it's an important theme that them turtles are "alone" if not lonely.

ALTHOUGH... Don had a crush on the space princess, and Mikey wrote a story about a gal named Tai... meybe...

[Jephael]

Seriously, dude. It's not worth having a spasm over! :trazz:

[Buslady]

i think that the tmnt deserve someone...especially after all the hell they' been through. *regardless the whole idea that they can't breed.*

so is it safe to say that much?

I certainly don't pay much attention to those little details.....nope not in my stories.

[Mouse]

impetus: relax! geez!!!! and yes i mind!!! :)

buslady: so are you agreeing or disagreeing?

if you ask me...TMNT are cutie regardless:)

[That Matt Guy]

Irma owns you.