Back from a 30-year absence!

[tekering]

Bear with me here, gentlemen: I’ve finally been approved to post on these forums, and I’ve got lots I want to say.

I’m probably too old to be here. As a child of the seventies, my obsessions were Star Trek, Battlestar: Galactica, Star Blazers, The Black Hole and Star Wars… If it wasn’t space opera, it didn’t interest me. Certainly, nothing involving bad-ass martial arts on the gritty streets of New York would’ve caught my fancy then.

However, by 1986, Transformers: The Movie had turned a children’s cartoon into something gritty and bad-ass, and James Cameron had proven that space opera could be gritty and bad-ass with Aliens. It was the right time for me to discover Eastman and Laird’s gritty and bad-ass Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I still treasure those original issues today.

By 1987, it had to be gritty and bad-ass to interest me at all, and Predator and RoboCop were exactly that. I remember reading the editorial in Mirage comics that TMNT was being produced as an animated series, and expectations were high; a gritty and bad-ass cartoon? This could be cooler than Galaxy Rangers!

See where I’m going with this? :ohwell:

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

I hated the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

So, for the last thirty years, I’ve ignored TMNT entirely. I never saw The Next Mutation, the 4Kids TV cartoon, the 2007 CGI movie, or the new live-action films, and I’d never even heard about the Nickelodeon series… not until a junior high student of mine showed me a clip on his iPad last month.

“When I was your age, the Turtles were cool,” I started to tell him, like any cranky middle-aged man would talk to a teenager. “They ARE cool,” he insisted. “Just watch.”

TMNT cartoons never felt right to me — and live-action TMNT never worked, either — but CGI is uniquely suited to the concept. The lighting is moody and evocative, the movement is dynamic and exciting, and the production design is simple but impeccably detailed at the same time. The quality of the animation amazed me — even surpassing Star Wars: Rebels — and the character designs are perfect. Finally, the Turtles are cute AND cool! I was hooked immediately.

Still, I wasn’t prepared for the depth of characterization, the quality of the writing, the talents of the cast, or the spectacular action sequences. And the humor! This show has me laughing out loud every episode, something a TV series rarely ever manages to do. This show is so much fun to watch!

So, over the past couple of weeks, I’ve shown it to any student, friend or colleague I can, and reactions have been enormously positive across the board. I’ve prepared class presentations about the evolution of the franchise, and solicited opinions from adults totally unfamiliar with TMNT. I’ve compared other film and TV adaptations, and found them all lacking (although the CGI film from 2007 was pretty good).

I’ve also bought over two dozen action figures, and boy, are they a mixed bag…!

Anyway, this show has made me a TMNT fan again, and I can’t wait to see more of the series. It disappoints me to know it’s already over — and even more disappointing to see what’s replaced it — but for now, I’m looking forward to enjoying the remaining hundred episodes or so. Honestly, I haven’t seen a cartoon this good since The Maxx.

For those of you who enjoy it as much as I do, does anything else on American TV compare?

[newfan]

Welcome to the drome! Always nice to see another fan of the last show, I came in to the franchise because of that one (but I have explored and appreciated other versions too)
Enjoy the your time here.

[Powder]

Welcome to the boards. There are plenty of fans in your age bracket on & off the site, no worries!

Anyway, all that you say of the 2012 series is true, it's definitely a standout iteration among the many that exist. Hopefully you enjoy the rest of it as much as you have what you've watched so far. Given what you grew up on, I should think you'll especially dig season 4's space arc. You probably get a kick out of the Star Trek parody series Leonardo watches, eh? :tlol:

To call this series' toyline a mixed bag is an understatement, there are probably more misses than hits, unfortunately. On the bright side, a set of adult collector aimed figures that are 100% screen accurate, fully articulated, & accompanied by a bevy of accessories were made. Look up "Revoltech TMNT". Living in Japan you should have a decent chance of getting a set as they were produced there & were recently re-released.

As a fellow big-time Mirage fan I am shocked that you don't like the first Henson film. Aside from April being a reporter & The Foot a path for wayward youth, it adapts aspects of early issues quite faithfully. The cinematography & visual ambiance are stellar, characterization's spot on, it's easily the best TMNT movie.

As for as other shows comparing to this one, I don't know of any.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, you're definitely not the oldest person around here, there's plenty more in your age group...I am not one of them.


There's plenty more in the Mirage run if you're interested since it carried on to the early 2000's. Just...tread lightly, it's a bit of a mess.

The IDW comics are also pretty amazing if you enjoy the last show and Mirage, since for me it overcomes the weaknesses of both and relishes in their strengths.

So if you're able to expand a little more, totally go for those.

[tekering]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I'm looking forward to catching up with the franchise... at least, what Mirage did with it.

The IDW comics are also pretty amazing if you enjoy the last show and Mirage, since for me it overcomes the weaknesses of both and relishes in their strengths.

Excellent, thanks for the recommendation. :tthumbsu:

On the bright side, a set of adult collector aimed figures that are 100% screen accurate, fully articulated, & accompanied by a bevy of accessories were made.

Oh yes, I love the Revoltech Turtles. :D

https://toyroom.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/post-op-turtles.jpg

I'm especially happy I found a skateboard for Mikey! :tgrin:

https://toyroom.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/mikey-on-skateboard.jpg

NECA's Mirage Turtles are still my favorites, though. :tcool:

https://toyroom.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/mirage-tmnt-lair.jpg

[Utrommaniac]

Well, again...buckle up for Volume 4 when you get to it...

Tales of the TMNT is easily Mirage's best, though.

[ZariusTwo]

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

>Trashes everything that was the building blocks of the franchise's mainstream popularity
>Praises the overrated 2012 Nick show, which would not exist without any of the former.

Yeah, we're not going to be friends.

[Andrew NDB]

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

If that's all you saw of it, you should've. The cartoon is horrible and bares no resemblance to the "real" Turtles. The second and third movies are largely embarrassing to watch, and even the first one sells itself way short.

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I'm looking forward to catching up with the franchise... at least, what Mirage did with it.

That's really the only aspect that's worth checking out in 2018, IMHO. Even stuff like IDW is TMNT jambalaya, with mostly Fred Wolf stuff in play... like a fanfiction of someone who used to be balls deep into the toys and old cartoon as a kid.

[Autbot_Benz]

the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

Regarding your thoughts on the first tmnt movie by steve barron

https://i.imgur.com/TKH3pyx.gif

[IndigoErth]

Welcome, and welcome back! :) Nah, never too old, but I do envy your having been old enough to enjoy the original comics. (But not the feeling over the first cartoon like I kind of feel over the newest one. :tgrumble:)

Yeah, Nickelodeon's first series was so well done and such a shame that it ended already. A good mixing of the serious and the silly. I wasn't away from TMNT as long (almost 19 years), but the 2012 series is likewise what also caught my eye and brought me back, too. :twink:

[Longview01]

You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3?

[Andrew NDB]

You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3?

Why not? I would. 2K3 Turtles are pretty far removed from Mirage, tonally and otherwise (even personalities-wise... like, that is NOT Michelangelo!), despite what people keep enjoying saying.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, but with comics, at least to some degree isn't part of the tone in how a reader decides to hear it? I mean, understandably a cartoon series probably can't go to some of the lengths the comics presumably did, leaves less up for interpretation being a cartoon and all, and have to keep it in the realm of being kid friendly and play to selling to a wider audience.

Maybe it's not just like the comics, but it's certainly the one I'd want another series modeled after. Though I'd gladly take a little more mature version that could be a bit more in tune with the tones of the comics.

[Technogeek29]

Why not? I would. 2K3 Turtles are pretty far removed from Mirage, tonally and otherwise (even personalities-wise... like, that is NOT Michelangelo!), despite what people keep enjoying saying.

Well there is one aspect of his character they showcase to the point of nausea

[Utrommaniac]

Guys let's not get nasty and combative on this guy's introduction thread...even if it's not in the right part of the forum.

[Kit31]

Hi and welcome back! I was gone from the franchise for probably 17 years until the 2003 series brought me back in 2008. But the 2012 series is amazing and it's by far my favorite iteration of all TMNT media I've been exposed to (movies and television) so far. I have yet to really get into any of the comics, but I will one of these days.

[Andrew NDB]

Well there is one aspect of his character they showcase to the point of nausea

What aspect is that?

[tekering]

Guys let's not get nasty and combative on this guy's introduction thread...

Oh, I think I set the tone for that myself. I encourage critical debate, and I see nothing but mature and level-headed comments here. I'm impressed.

>Trashes everything that was the building blocks of the franchise's mainstream popularity
>Praises the overrated 2012 Nick show, which would not exist without any of the former.

You're absolutely correct. Were it not for the original cartoon (and the toys it spawned), TMNT would never have established enough market recognition to become a Nickelodeon property.

Yeah, we're not going to be friends.

I welcome your educated and articulate input regardless. :tsmile:

[Andrew NDB]

You're absolutely correct. Were it not for the original cartoon (and the toys it spawned), TMNT would never have established enough market recognition to become a Nickelodeon property.

Impossible to reconstruct what alternate timelines of success or failure would have stemmed from the variety of deals Kevin and Peter had in front of them, or the hypothetical ones that would have come beyond that. Particularly had they barred all kiddy stuff until the 2000s... when after X-Men kicked in the door, stuff like Hellboy (equivalent to TMNT Mirage) rocked out just fine.

Given how in 2018 the actual source material has been almost entirely marginalized... I tend to think they didn't make the best choices. But I'm not them and I wasn't in their shoes at those times or under the kind of pressures they were. I can only Monday morning quarterback.

[Leo656]

Hey, guy.

Andrew: Objectively, I gotta say that without the somewhat unfortunate chain of events that have led us to "TMNT is a goofy kids' property and nothing else, forever," the characters and concept would likely have died on the vine. Stuff like "Hepcats" and "Brat Pack" were pretty well-regarded on the indie scene, too, and were quite good, but ultimately nobody really read them and nobody really remembers them.

What TMNT has become disgusts me - and I don't mean "Rise" specifically, although I admittedly can't stand anything about it - but without watering down the basic concept for a kids' cartoon and toy line way back when, TMNT wouldn't have been more than a blip on the radar. The brand's success and longevity go hand-in-hand with keeping it aimed at children. I don't like it one bit, but I can only call what I see.

Impossible to tell for sure, as you say; I just think it took a very specific set of circumstances to create "Turtlemania" in the first place, and that things really kind of "had to" happen exactly as they did to get us to a point. I just wish that point included more product for everyone, not just kids.

I say this as someone who mostly thinks Mirage is a great substitute for Ambien. I know, I'm a weird guy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The 'Drome can't get enough of "I don't like kiddie TMNT" fans. The more the merrier, I say.

It's only fair to offset the influx of kids we know the new cartoon will be bringing in.

The League of Extraordinarily Grumpy Gentlemen shall ride again, brother, and we count your number among us a blessing. :trazz:

[Prowler]

This is the most interesting introduction post I've ever seen around these parts. Looking forward to your participation in the forums

Welcome aboard :)

[IndigoErth]

I just wish that point included more product for everyone, not just kids.
Reminded me I came across this article while the forum was offline.

https://www.adweek.com/tv-video/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-relaunches-with-wwe-j-crew-and-amazon-ahead-of-new-series/

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Relaunches With WWE, J. Crew and Amazon Ahead of New Series
Nickelodeon targets ‘a broader demographic than we ever have before’

In the run-up to its relaunch of the multibillion-dollar franchise, Nickelodeon has also aligned with Amazon, J. Crew, Sonic Drive-In and Walmart to “go down every aisle at retail and reach a broader demographic than we ever have before,” said Pam Kaufman, recently named president of Viacom/Nickelodeon global consumer products, whose division has made Turtles its first worldwide project.

...

While Nick skews primarily to 6 to 11-year-olds, network execs put together far-ranging partner programs to take advantage of Turtle nostalgia while trying to appeal to a new generation of children and their parents.

The colorful characters—known as “heroes in a half-shell”— are appearing on 2 million Amazon Prime boxes this month, and their retro images are gracing a fashion line for adults at J. Crew. A separate streetwear collection is in the works.


And they've only now considered a broader audience with the advent of 'Rise,' a series that was toted as being "younger." I don't know whether to laugh or cry. lol

Sad to say for those who aren't into the 'retro' images that of course seems to be what will grace the adult stuff as usual though. Would be nice if there was some new art, and if 'retro' did not only refer to the FW set, that would be nice.

[ZariusTwo]

You're absolutely correct. Were it not for the original cartoon (and the toys it spawned), TMNT would never have established enough market recognition to become a Nickelodeon property.

Obviously it did a lot of good for the franchise, and inspired generations of kids. Hardly anything to be "disgusted" about, which is why I don't see the point in coming on here declaring those aspects of the franchise turn people off, they clearly don't. Being a contrarian 30-something edgelord who decrees that there's only one way to do the TMNT justice is really not that big, mature or even clever. It demonstrates a deeply rooted ignorance and narrow worldview of the franchise's potential to grow beyond it's original tone and direction.

[Utrommaniac]

https://media.giphy.com/media/MC36dfsMKjKLu/giphy.gif
I've never been able to put it to words, but you just did!

The same thing goes for the frothy dorks that haven't touched anything TMNT since they were eight and howl about Rocksteady smashing Don's shell in IDW "ruining their childhoods".

[Powder]

Obviously it did a lot of good for the franchise, and inspired generations of kids. Hardly anything to be "disgusted" about, which is why I don't see the point in coming on here declaring those aspects of the franchise turn people off, they clearly don't. Being a contrarian 30-something edgelord who decrees that there's only one way to do the TMNT justice is really not that big, mature or even clever. It demonstrates a deeply rooted ignorance and narrow worldview of the franchise's potential to grow beyond it's original tone and direction.

It would be far more appropriate for you to say this to yourself in a mirror, considering you poo-poo just about everything that isn't the Fred Wolf cartoon & are a "contrarian 30-something edgelord who decrees that there's only one way to do the TMNT justice" yourself. This guy just came & stated his opinions on TMNT in an introductory statement, he did not present his views as fact or the "correct" view. Now pull up your bootstraps & stop vilifying the new guy, we haven't had one in ages, don't need to scare any off.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, he was referring to his opinions before actually giving a different version a shot and has become more open-minded. Even getting some of the toys he was previously reviled by. Which is a good thing to strive for.

[Vegeta]

A bit odd to love the 2012 cartoon but despise fred wolf and the first film but welcome back buddy. Read some IDW, its awesome.

[Leo656]

I still love you, Zarius.

Stop watching "Smallville".

[Longview01]

Obviously it did a lot of good for the franchise, and inspired generations of kids. Hardly anything to be "disgusted" about, which is why I don't see the point in coming on here declaring those aspects of the franchise turn people off, they clearly don't. Being a contrarian 30-something edgelord who decrees that there's only one way to do the TMNT justice is really not that big, mature or even clever. It demonstrates a deeply rooted ignorance and narrow worldview of the franchise's potential to grow beyond it's original tone and direction.

I think I love you

[ABrown]

However, by 1986, Transformers: The Movie had turned a children’s cartoon into something gritty and bad-ass

Got my tickets for tomorrow night's one night only event. Can't wait to see Transformers: The Movie back on the big screen again for the first time in over 30 years.

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

When the original TMNT cartoon went into five days a week syndication in 1989, I was eight years old. It didn't interest me in the very least. But the first movie in 1990 is what made me a TMNT fan. I'm surprised you didn't like it. It was only after seeing the first movie that I became a fan of the original cartoon.

So, for the last thirty years, I’ve ignored TMNT entirely. I never saw The Next Mutation, the 4Kids TV cartoon, the 2007 CGI movie

Boy did you ever miss out. Not with The Next Mutation, I've still never been able to sit through the entire one season. But the 4Kids series and the 2007 CGI movie are among the top of what I love about the TMNT franchise.

Still, I wasn’t prepared for the depth of characterization, the quality of the writing, the talents of the cast, or the spectacular action sequences. And the humor! This show has me laughing out loud every episode, something a TV series rarely ever manages to do. This show is so much fun to watch!

Are we talking about the same cartoon here? Because it sounds like you're talking about the 4Kids series, not the Nickelodeon series. I mean the Nick series had its moments, but it was nothing that I would praise.

For those of you who enjoy it as much as I do, does anything else on American TV compare?

Well, as I said above, the 4Kids series does.

You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3?

That's got me confused as well.

[Technogeek29]

What aspect is that?

Mikey likes to run his mouth and trash talk. Problem is even though that is a part of his character it is a very small part of him.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If you liked Mirage, watch the 4 Kids series.

[Andrew NDB]

If you liked Mirage, watch the 4 Kids series.

Yeah, if you're a big Mirage fan, it's definitely worth a look to form your own opinion on. For me, it's much worse to suffer through painfully little kid/toy-pandering adaptations of established Mirage storylines in 4Kids than just, like, a different TMNT show that doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

Again, I don't think I've ever felt as angry watching a Turtle-anything (that might have changed if I'd bothered to see "Out of the Shadows") as I was when I watched the 4Kids "Return to New York."

[FredWolfLeonardo]

For me, it's much worse to suffer through painfully little kid/toy-pandering adaptations of established Mirage storylines in 4Kids than just, like, a different TMNT show that doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

So does that technically you mean that you'd rather watch Fred Wolf than 4Kids and like it better?

[Andrew NDB]

So does that technically you mean that you'd rather watch Fred Wolf than 4Kids and like it better?

Probably. I don't want to watch any of that stuff, though.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Did you ever test the Archie TMNT Adventures comics? They began adopting episodes of the Fred Wolf cartoon before developing new stories, some of them dark for being a children's comic.

Maybe you will also like seasons 8-10 (1994–1996) of the Fred Wolf series? They saw the return of the action after years of censorship, self-censorship.

[Andrew NDB]

Did you ever test the Archie TMNT Adventures comics?

Of course. My first Turtle comic ever was like TMNTA #6. My "Odyssey" comic with Lawson even brought in several TMNTA characters. And the Turnstone.

Maybe you will also like seasons 8-10 (1994–1996) of the Fred Wolf series? They saw the return of the action after years of censorship, self-censorship.

I think even Fred Wolf with "the return of the action" is still pretty far removed from any kind of TMNT I'm interested in watching.

I'd much rather invest that time in, like, catching up on "Vikings" episodes. Or independent films. Or old westerns I've never seen. Or pretty much anything.

[Coola Yagami]

I think even Fred Wolf with "the return of the action" is still pretty far removed from any kind of TMNT I'm interested in watching.



Despite the sky being drawn red and the turtles being a darker shade of green. slightly less jokes and pizza, I never saw Red Sky as the 'super serious' cartoon they tried to mark it as. I remember that comic ad made it seem like it was going to compare with Batman TAS, but no, the damage was already done. The Turtles were still 'fighting' goofy cartoonish looking monsters and all Raph would ever do is toss his sais. Like, every. single. time.

Other than Shredder blowing up the Channel 6 building with little disregard if April and crew were still inside it, Red Sky was still hard to take seriously after 6 or so seasons of silliness and absurdity. It would be as if the Mirage guest artist era was three times as long and City at War started on issue 100. After so long it would have taken the fans time to realize 'oh ****, this is getting serious again. No more weird time traveling kids'.


Anyways, welcome new guy. You're def not the oldest one here. I'm sure you'll fit right in.

[tekering]

What TMNT has become disgusts me - and I don't mean "Rise" specifically, although I admittedly can't stand anything about it - but without watering down the basic concept for a kids' cartoon and toy line way back when, TMNT wouldn't have been more than a blip on the radar. The brand's success and longevity go hand-in-hand with keeping it aimed at children.

I'm glad I'm not the only one objecting to the infantilization of the brand... and one thing I really appreciate about the 2012 series is how mature the writing is, even deliberately subverting the usual morals kids' shows are expected to espouse. Of particular note is Splinter's objection to Leo's "fair fight" philosophy; he advises "seek victory, not fairness." The turtles actually celebrate winning by unfair means at the climax of the episode! :o

I've only just gotten through the North Hampton arc in season 3, but I'm astonished by all the old horror film references. Not only is the content totally inappropriate for children, but kids aren't even going to get the jokes. Obvious references to Jim Siedow from The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, Jason Vorhees from Friday the 13th, lots of John Carpenter nods (The Thing and Big Trouble in Little China in particular), as well as The Toxic Avenger, The Goonies, Aliens, A Nightmare on Elm Street, The Evil Dead... and not just in quotes or visual cues, but even the deliberate casting choices. I mean, what kid is gonna recognize Jon Heder's Napoleon Dynamite routine as Napoleon Bonafrog?

Either Ciro Nieli and his staff were writing for a much older audience -- which may well have been the case, since original TMNT fans have kids of their own now -- or they just did whatever the hell they wanted. Either way, as a lifelong film geek, I can't get enough of the in-jokes. :D

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Of course. My first Turtle comic ever was like TMNTA #6. My "Odyssey" comic with Lawson even brought in several TMNTA characters. And the Turnstone.



I think even Fred Wolf with "the return of the action" is still pretty far removed from any kind of TMNT I'm interested in watching.

I'd much rather invest that time in, like, catching up on "Vikings" episodes. Or independent films. Or old westerns I've never seen. Or pretty much anything.

I'm talking with Tekering.

[tekering]

I'm happy to be talking turtles with each of you, and I appreciate the variety of opinions here.

Did you ever test the Archie TMNT Adventures comics? They began adopting episodes of the Fred Wolf cartoon before developing new stories, some of them dark for being a children's comic.

Okay, I'll definitely check those out. Thanks for the recommendation.

Maybe you will also like seasons 8-10 (1994–1996) of the Fred Wolf series?

Oh, certainly not. I tried to watch an episode from season 10, but couldn't even get through ten minutes of it. The production values were awful, the action was embarrassing, and the vocal performances were as awkward and unnatural as the dialogue.

I don't see the point in coming on here declaring those aspects of the franchise turn people off, they clearly don't.

Well, they turned me off. I don't mean to speak for others; I'd rather hear what others have to say on the matter, yourself included. :)

I'd much rather invest that time in, like, catching up on "Vikings" episodes. Or independent films. Or old westerns I've never seen. Or pretty much anything.

Yeah, I'm with you there. Despite how many of you are recommending the 1990 film, or the "4Kids" series ("For kids?" There's a red flag right there! :lol:), I also think there are much better shows I could be watching.

I've been showing students and friends clips from many other iterations of the franchise, both new and old, and nothing seems to compare to Nick's 2012 series... for it has become the TMNT standard for me, and I find myself rejecting any show that doesn't have the same cast, the same quality of animation, the same witty dialogue, or the same appealing character designs.

The only other Turtles show I've found enjoyable so far is the "Half-Shell Heroes" spin-off, and there only seems to be one episode. What's up with that?

[newfan]

Yeah, I'm with you there. Despite how many of you are recommending the 1990 film, or the "4Kids" series ("For kids?" There's a red flag right there! :lol:), I also think there are much better shows I could be watching.

I've been showing students and friends clips from many other iterations of the franchise, both new and old, and nothing seems to compare to Nick's 2012 series... for it has become the TMNT standard for me, and I find myself rejecting any show that doesn't have the same cast, the same quality of animation, the same witty dialogue, or the same appealing character designs.

The only other Turtles show I've found enjoyable so far is the "Half-Shell Heroes" spin-off, and there only seems to be one episode. What's up with that?

Yeah it's my favourite version too, but we are in a minority with that here I think, though there are plenty who like it of course as well as those who don't (same with everything)

As for the 4 kids, aka 2003 Turtles, I'm watching that at the moment, trying to fill my turtle gap, I like it enough so far but so far as comparing it to Mirage I don't know, not read that yet.

Heros in a half shell was just a special, though from the ending it seemed there was room to for another to follow on, there wasn't one.

[Andrew NDB]

Ciro Nieli and his staff were writing for a much older audience

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1R9QkNgPr062iHx6/giphy.gif

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBRsT7-bShs30FZwZZGdnvKMT2RDfVBe0Yx32yhRvuLprvIHro_Q

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTS1MquDusBA-IZvnQyu2Pf3TjyBqzt8ewfB0Mc8LquexDPmV7Y

But credit to it. My daughter really liked it and we enjoyed watching it together at least until around the end of season 3. It's quintessentially not the Turtles, but it's not a badly made show and it's chuckleable.

[Leo656]

I'unno. 4Kids/2003 is the only cartoon show they've had that doesn't annoy me too much after a few episodes. Then again, I didn't get up to the Fast Forward stuff. That's me, though.

I can appreciate the original as something that I loved as a kid, but it grates on me now after a bit. And the April/Donnie stuff really killed the Nick show for me, I couldn't keep watching after a point. So the 4Kids show wins by default. It's not perfect, but it's the closest so far to what I'd want to watch in a TMNT show.

I'unno.

[Utrommaniac]

4Kid's TMNT is probably the only decent thing the company has ever turned out. There were some small things they stuck to that were typical for the company: the absolute no gray between good and evil, the origin of Leo badgering Karai because she's loyal to Shredder and that's not honorable and she should be a good guy!. Also the origin of Karai as Shredder's adoptive daughter, but not even a little vindictive and creepy.


Other than that, it almost feels like it was done by something different.


It had Casey grow the fvck up and get his act together. April wasn't the prize in a gross love triangle; she retains her "big sister" role. The two of them have great chemistry even when they're friends (making the TCRI break-in a whole new level of gold). It actually lets them build a romantic relationship like adults rather than cram it in because we need drama. Shredder had an element of danger that other versions hadn't reached and also didn't have an incel complex.

It's a pretty good show for at least the first four seasons. Just gotta get over the hoop that is the early 2000's idea of "cool".



But...IDW is still the one I recommend more. It actually is writing with much older audience in mind. The equal "PG-13" rating doesn't really mean it's geared toward teenage fans; it's very much for older fans.

[Longview01]

Are you really avoiding the 4kids version cause its "for kids"

You just put a big post up praising something Nickelodeon created

[Kit31]

As much as I absolutely love the 2012 series, the 2003 series is a close second-place for me. It's a lot darker in tone than the 80's series. Don't let the "4kids" thing fool you. It has solid storylines, great action, lovable characters, and decent animation. As many have said, the first five seasons are really good. While I think Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are entertaining enough, things changed drastically from the first five seasons.

[CyberCubed]

4kids is the name of the company, they're best known for dubbing Pokemon and other anime in the late 90's and early 2000's. 4kids worked with Peter Laird for the 2003 cartoon.

[Prowler]

I'unno. 4Kids/2003 is the only cartoon show they've had that doesn't annoy me too much after a few episodes. Then again, I didn't get up to the Fast Forward stuff. That's me, though.

I can appreciate the original as something that I loved as a kid, but it grates on me now after a bit. And the April/Donnie stuff really killed the Nick show for me, I couldn't keep watching after a point. So the 4Kids show wins by default. It's not perfect, but it's the closest so far to what I'd want to watch in a TMNT show.

I'unno.
Yeah, 4kids was a pretty solid cartoon.

4Kid's TMNT is probably the only decent thing the company has ever turned out. There were some small things they stuck to that were typical for the company: the absolute no gray between good and evil, the origin of Leo badgering Karai because she's loyal to Shredder and that's not honorable and she should be a good guy!. Also the origin of Karai as Shredder's adoptive daughter, but not even a little vindictive and creepy.


Other than that, it almost feels like it was done by something different.


It had Casey grow the fvck up and get his act together. April wasn't the prize in a gross love triangle; she retains her "big sister" role. The two of them have great chemistry even when they're friends (making the TCRI break-in a whole new level of gold). It actually lets them build a romantic relationship like adults rather than cram it in because we need drama. Shredder had an element of danger that other versions hadn't reached and also didn't have an incel complex.

It's a pretty good show for at least the first four seasons. Just gotta get over the hoop that is the early 2000's idea of "cool".



But...IDW is still the one I recommend more. It actually is writing with much older audience in mind. The equal "PG-13" rating doesn't really mean it's geared toward teenage fans; it's very much for older fans.

Yeah the show kinda jumped the shark after season 4 and the Ninja Tribunal. But tbh we're lucky it got as many episodes as it did.I originally expected it to have 2-3 seasons max. Never thought it'd have surpassed the 100 episode mark.

The how holds up well in terms of animation and art, imo. The only thing that feels dated about it are the Guardians being an obvious reference/parody of The Matrix, which was a HUGE movie franchise at the time.

[Andrew NDB]

My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right.

Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool."

[tekering]

When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself. :tlol:

Now, since so many of you have recommended it to me, I've tried to watch the first couple episodes of the 4Kids series, and it's... not bad, really. Certainly better than I feared it would be. It's almost the anti-Fred Wolf, trying desperately to avoid all the changes the earlier series made to the franchise, and it's definitely the better for it.

I rather liken this series to Schwarzenegger's original Terminator, and the 2012 series to Terminator 2. I can respect The Terminator, Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the character and how it drives the plot, but it lacks the charm, the humor, and the heart of Terminator 2. T2 is eye candy, with glorious production values and spectacular action set pieces that would've been impossible to achieve on the budget of the original film, just as the production design, lighting and texturing, and fight choreography in Nick's CGI series would've been impossible to produce using the limited hand-drawn animation of the 4Kids production. Sure, TMNT 2012 is a little cheesier -- just as T2 was -- but the 2003 series is totally lacking in charm... and the humor is anemic. (Not as infantile as the Fred Wolf series, of course, but just as ineffective nonetheless.)

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

https://orig00.deviantart.net/1826/f/2017/213/4/4/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_2003_02_a_better_mous _by_kaijuboy455-dbiitbs.jpg

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with! :tconfuse:

To extend the metaphor, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles feels very much like Terminator: Salvation does to me; apart from character names, I don't recognize anything from the earlier series. The setting is completely different, the characters look and act completely differently, and the story seems shallow and pointless. I can appreciate the production values and the effects work, but it's impossible to engage with any of the characters.

[Longview01]

I'm out of this conversation tbh, this guy really irks me and seems to have an opinion on things he has very very very little knowledge on

Its borderline trolling

[Spike Spiegel]

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with! :tconfuse:



It was the early 2000s; you had to be there. I can still close my eyes and envision the flip phones, frosted tips, and news clips of Bush 43.

I personally grew up on this show and it was my gateway drug to the Mirage comics. Also, I never watched the 1990 film until I was a teenager.

It's interesting to read how your ideas of the TMNT have developed over the last few decades.

[neatoman]

My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right.

So basically, you may not like it personally but it's still better to have kids grow up with Karai, Fugitoid and Renet, rather than Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang?

Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool."

I'm not sure about "agenda", I just think Nick excecs foolishly believe they can recreate the success of the Fred Wolf cartoon by cramming in references to it.

[The-Shredder]

That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself. :tlol:

Now, since so many of you have recommended it to me, I've tried to watch the first couple episodes of the 4Kids series, and it's... not bad, really. Certainly better than I feared it would be. It's almost the anti-Fred Wolf, trying desperately to avoid all the changes the earlier series made to the franchise, and it's definitely the better for it.

I rather liken this series to Schwarzenegger's original Terminator, and the 2012 series to Terminator 2. I can respect The Terminator, Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the character and how it drives the plot, but it lacks the charm, the humor, and the heart of Terminator 2. T2 is eye candy, with glorious production values and spectacular action set pieces that would've been impossible to achieve on the budget of the original film, just as the production design, lighting and texturing, and fight choreography in Nick's CGI series would've been impossible to produce using the limited hand-drawn animation of the 4Kids production. Sure, TMNT 2012 is a little cheesier -- just as T2 was -- but the 2003 series is totally lacking in charm... and the humor is anemic. (Not as infantile as the Fred Wolf series, of course, but just as ineffective nonetheless.)

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

https://orig00.deviantart.net/1826/f/2017/213/4/4/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_2003_02_a_better_mous _by_kaijuboy455-dbiitbs.jpg

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with! :tconfuse:

To extend the metaphor, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles feels very much like Terminator: Salvation does to me; apart from character names, I don't recognize anything from the earlier series. The setting is completely different, the characters look and act completely differently, and the story seems shallow and pointless. I can appreciate the production values and the effects work, but it's impossible to engage with any of the characters.

The series begins to hit its stride once the Turtles meet the Shredder and reaches even more mature heights in Season 3, but I still really enjoy the more fun and wholesome moments from the show's earlier episodes before the Turtles' feud with the Foot and Bishop took over their lives. Not saying that the first few seasons are bad, but based on your tastes you would probably like the later episodes more. Also, April and Casey get redesigns in the last season, so no more early 2000s bare midriff, just like how April in the Fred Wolf cartoon ditched her yellow jumpsuit for the last few seasons.

[ABrown]

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

https://orig00.deviantart.net/1826/f/2017/213/4/4/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_2003_02_a_better_mous _by_kaijuboy455-dbiitbs.jpg

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with! :tconfuse:


I've been trying to figure out all day if this was a joke or not. April wearing a lab coat over her daily clothes is as ridiculous as anything from the original cartoon? So Donatello becoming the size of a sky scraper is more realistic than April wearing a lab coat over her regular clothes. But I suppose Ice Cream kitty makes more sense? :-?

[Andrew NDB]

When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.



That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself. :tlol:.

I realize my post could be misconstrued there. I was dating a lady and the "young man" was her son. Got him a bunch of 4Kids stuff and he was thrilled.

[tekering]

I was dating a lady and the "young man" was her son.

Yeah, "dating a single mother" was obvious in context.

Donatello becoming the size of a sky scraper is more realistic than April wearing a lab coat over her regular clothes. But I suppose Ice Cream kitty makes more sense? :-?

The size of a skyscraper...?
I stand corrected. I know very little of the original cartoon.

Oh, and -- just for the record -- I despise Ice Cream Kitty.

[neatoman]

Yeah, not a fan of Ice Cream Kitty either. I thought it was cute with Klunk, you know how the fantastical characters have a regular pet, like Data and Spot. It also worked with Spike early on, a little extra amusing with him being a turtle himself. Ice Cream Kitty just seems like perversion of Klunk, not only going against the quality that made Klunk and Spike work but doing so in the dumbest way imaginable.

[CyberCubed]

Little kids, the target audience, loved ice cream kitty, and I see praise for it on social media. it's become a meme.

[TurtleToys]

I love the 2012 series. I’m 31 yrs old and this is what got me back into collecting. It’s helped me bond with my kids and inspired me to acquire the toys of my childhood again. My kids aren’t huge fans of The Rise of the TMNT series but we are warming up to it. I think the 2012 series was amazing. Also the 2007 movie doesn’t get the respect it deserves.