what i could never understand about tmnt 2 [Archive]

go-ninja-go

07-30-2002, 06:53 PM

last summer me and my older brother had a tmnt movie party, 1-3, and i hadn't seen 2 in so long... but when i watched last year i never realized how terrible it is compared to 1 and 3, as a kid 2 was my favorite, but i was left disappointed after watching it ten years later... not to say i won't watch, (i've seen it on encore twice this week, i will still love my turtles)...

anyways, my question is... how come in TMNT1 a human shredder falls into a garbage truck and get's trash compacted... yet he doesn't die... nonetheless in TMNT2 as supershredder, he is simply killed with a couple wood planks landing on him, it just bugs me... i have always wished they'd make a new movie (i have never seen the next mutation) with shredder in it. to make up for the terrible ending in TMNT2, i guess my bias is that nothing compared to splinter whooping shredder's butt in TMNT1, all we get in TMNT2 is the turtles jumping into the water... maybe's there's some moral importance in the background, that instead of fighting it's better to make best of our environment... but whatever it is, i just wish something more defeated shredder...

anyhow... TMNT rocks no matter what...

azure turtle

07-30-2002, 06:57 PM

Well, that's just movie logic for ya! I agree, though... I didn't like the ending of TMNT II. I think the first movie was the best, and it seems like a lot of people agree (check out the poll on the Technodrome's main page ;) ). I bet Kali might have some interesting theories about it, though. She's got some good ones about the Super Shredder. Heh heh... I've been watching TMNT II on the Encore channel as well. I've seen it twice already, but it's gonna be on again tonight at 7 (Pacific)! I can't wait. :D Btw, welcome to the forums!
*gives go-ninja-go a mango of welcome*

enigma-1

07-30-2002, 07:00 PM

Hmm. That may be just one of those things we mere mortals, ninjas, demons, hunters, and all may never understand.

go-ninja-go

07-30-2002, 07:07 PM

thank you azure turtle, i had finally decided to go find out more about the roots of my past (lol, just like the turtles in the secret of the ooze) and i came across this board... i was gonna record two, but i didn't know it was 7 central, they said 8, and i was thinking 8 central, not 8 eastern... i have had 1 and 3, but two was stolen from me, and i never knew what happened to it, until this guy i haven't talked to for almost ten years, i.m.ed on aol and told me that he still had it, but we live in different states, plus it doesn't matter, my 2 was on betamax pal, i never had a betamax pal and always had to watch it at my friend's houses that had a betamax pal player, that's the thing that used to suck about growing up overseas... when you bought a movie, they wouldn't tell you if it was pal or ntsc... oh well i'll wait till i make some money and get the dvd's (and hopefully the season too)

Kali

07-30-2002, 07:14 PM

It is movie logic. My theories: *hears groaning in the background*

In the first movie, the crusher didn't crush Shredder completely (obviously) or even enough to break bone. I don't think those garbage trucks are really as powerful as movies and cartoons make them out to be. Hardly anything ever is. They just push the garbage down enough to make room for more to fit it.

As for Super Shredder: One, I don't think that was Saki at all, and was a lower, weaker soldier, hence why he was defeated easily. Also, the entire freaking dock fell on his head! Not just the wooden planks, but "all that stuff on top", as Don said. My guess is that hundreds, if not tons of stuff came crashing down on him.

The second movie was seriously toned down attitude and violence wise because parents were upset the first movie was so dark. The parents wanted it more like the cartoon. I also used to really like the second movie, and I still do, but I'm liking the first and third more and more. TMNT II's still good for a laugh, though.

Nturtle

07-30-2002, 07:26 PM

Hmmmm.... that is a very intresting super shredder theory :lol: I still think the way Sptinter killed him was the best (splinter rules) 8)

Red

07-30-2002, 08:52 PM

Reading those theories does make both endings seem more logical, but what gets to me is the fact that it took the Turtles almost 16 years to grow to their current size, and yet it only takes a few days for Tokka and Razhar to pass them in height. :-?

Even without those details, though, I still like the 1 and 3 much better than the second, and definately more memorable. It's probably just the fact that the TMNT are a bit closer to their comic book roots.

Nturtle

07-30-2002, 08:58 PM

Yeah that is one of the many problems with TMNT 2 and of course Super Shredder becomes garagantuaon it about three seconds

azure turtle

07-31-2002, 12:12 AM

Reading those theories does make both endings seem more logical, but what gets to me is the fact that it took the Turtles almost 16 years to grow to their current size, and yet it only takes a few days for Tokka and Razhar to pass them in height. :-?
Hmm... This is a good question, but Tokka and Razhar's fast growth might have been caused by the amount of mutagen used. When Splinter and the TMNT were exposed to the ooze, the canister was broken. The ooze spilled everywhere, so the TMNT could've just touched a little bit of the ooze. Since Tokka and Rahzar were created under a controlled environment, they may have been exposed to more ooze than the TMNT. And as for Shredder's sudden growth, that could've been caused by him drinking the vial of ooze rather than covering his body with it. Of course, none of this can be proven, since we have no idea how the mutagen makes its magic... Just a few thoughts. :wink:

R-iZZy

07-31-2002, 12:15 AM

well, my theory is that ooze = height and tokka + razhar had more mutagen ooze than our little heros.

so in conclusion O = H squared (huh?)

well, more ooze equals more height. thatz my theory on the little heros and the big villains.

Kali

07-31-2002, 09:13 AM

Possibly. Also, consider that Professor Perry did contaminate the ooze used to create Tokka and Rahzar, which was why he was able to formulate an anti-mutagen. It was different from what was used on the TMNT and Splinter. Also, those 15 dormant years could have also done something to the mutagen, like "matured" it somehow. The mutagen could have mutated itself, like viruses mutate.

But the fact they used more ooze was the most likely contributor to Tokka and Rahzar's increased growth.

Nturtle

07-31-2002, 09:20 AM

that sounds like the best theory so far but still there is the case of the mutating shredder clothes :lol:

Kali

07-31-2002, 09:31 AM

Well, either it wasn't Shredder, but a random Foot soldier who was mutated and dressed up to look like Shredder before hand. That means Shredder's still out there, plotting his revenge.

Or the mutagen can somehow mutate certain inanimate things, like organic cloth and some metals. With this theory, Shredder has the potential to become a cyborg-like creature, and could possibly have survived the collapse of the dock.

Nturtle

07-31-2002, 11:12 AM

Well since the new CGI movie won't pick up after second movie it probebly won't happen or the shredder that we DO see in the CGI pilot is the real shredder not the foot soilder guy

Red

07-31-2002, 03:24 PM

In any case, I do hope that Shredder is still alive out there somewhere, if only to see him again either in a show, movie, or comic. The possibility for that happening seems pretty slim, though.

Nickokapo

07-31-2002, 03:27 PM

yep...i hope they don't get rid of tinhead, he's one of my favorite characters :|

Kali

07-31-2002, 05:20 PM

Well, they have said that Shredder will be a villain in the new cartoon, and they'll probably use him in the movie, since it most likely won't be of the same continuum as the other movies.

Tinselcat

07-31-2002, 05:49 PM

shredder's my bee-yatch!! :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: oh, and welcome, GNG!!

Nturtle

07-31-2002, 06:00 PM

:blanksta: :sweatdro: you know tinselcat, you never fail to scare the living hell out of me

azure turtle

07-31-2002, 11:00 PM

LOL!! :lol: That's our Tinselcat! :anime:
We know one thing for sure about good ol' Shredhead... He won't be appearing in the new Mirage comics. Peter himself said that Shredder is dead and gone, but the Foot Clan will still be making appearances.

Brodie

08-01-2002, 02:41 AM

Uh, yeah, TMNT 1 is the best, as I always state. 2 was ok, and yeah the ending bit, but 3 sucked....

And yes, heroes prefer red heads.

Kali

08-01-2002, 09:06 AM

Does strawberry blonde count? It's mostly red.

Red

08-01-2002, 09:31 AM

*Blushes a bit* Well I see someone read my signature...

Don't worry Kali. Strawberry blonde is close enough.

R-iZZy

08-01-2002, 09:54 AM

what?! they dont like dakr-haired ones? excuse me a bit.

::grabs a bottle of peroxide::

maybe they'll like blonde-haired ones too!!!

Kameko

08-01-2002, 04:11 PM

As for Super Shredder: One, I don't think that was Saki at all, and was a lower, weaker soldier, hence why he was defeated easily.

.............

Well, either it wasn't Shredder, but a random Foot soldier who was mutated and dressed up to look like Shredder before hand. That means Shredder's still out there, plotting his revenge.

Or the mutagen can somehow mutate certain inanimate things, like organic cloth and some metals. With this theory, Shredder has the potential to become a cyborg-like creature, and could possibly have survived the collapse of the dock.

Hmmm...I had never thought of that possibility... It does seem to be the most feasible explanation, though. :nod:

Nturtle

08-01-2002, 04:58 PM

Cyber shred-head eh? hmmm....

Kingkapong

08-02-2002, 09:30 AM

but he was in water. i could've sunk lower and the force and weight that was dropped on him decreased due to the water. i think the second movie was meant to set up another movie or something else cause it was kinda a cliff-hanger (not a very big one).

miss mab

08-02-2002, 09:36 AM

Wasnt the doctor originally suppose to near the end prove to be a Utrom or something? I forget...cursed memory. X_x

I could probably see why that was taken out though, with so many people knowing mostly/only the cartoon, they would of thought it was Krang and confusion ensues.

azure turtle

08-02-2002, 01:33 PM

Yay! Miss Mab's back! We missed ya, dudette!

I didn't know that Prof. Perry was supposed to be an Utrom... That would totally tie in the comics with the movie if it happened.

Kali

08-02-2002, 01:40 PM

Yeah, that's what I heard. I think it was in an interview with Peter, but I'm not sure. Prof. Perry was supposed to be a Utrom, there was supposed to be this whole scene in the club's back/restroom where the Professor opens his disguise and reveals himself to be a Utrom.

I actually have a half-written fic that takes place at TCRI when the ooze was first created, and about how Perry was a human intern and how exactly they found out about the ooze's "mutanigetic properties". Possibly tying in Leatherhead with the movies. I never finished it.

azure turtle

08-03-2002, 10:36 PM

I actually have a half-written fic that takes place at TCRI when the ooze was first created, and about how Perry was a human intern and how exactly they found out about the ooze's "mutanigetic properties". Possibly tying in Leatherhead with the movies. I never finished it.
Aww... bummer. :(

But the idea of the Prof. being a Utrom has caught my interest. I never thought about that possibility...

Bowser_Koopa

08-04-2002, 06:46 AM

me neither, in fact i didn't even know if krang was the only utrom, but i always wondered why krang never appered in the movie

Kali

08-04-2002, 09:40 AM

Nturtle

08-04-2002, 10:31 AM

they didn't put krang in because I think that they wanted it to be slightly more realistic and like the comic book

Bowser_Koopa

08-04-2002, 10:49 AM

i know i didn't mention it :embarass: , but there i meant when i was a child, cuz i didn't know much about utroms, i now know that krang is not the only utrom :nod:

Kali

08-04-2002, 11:03 AM

Though if they did make Professor Perry a Utrom, that would be VERY like the comics. Unless, of course, people confused him with Krang.

Nturtle

08-04-2002, 07:32 PM

Proffesor perry a utrom?? weird!! I imagine him as more of just a dippy scientist :P

azure turtle

08-04-2002, 11:01 PM

Azure: Maybe I'll dig out that old story and polish it up a bit. I remember writing it all one afternoon in purple gel pen as I walk around my neighborhood. I'd stop every now and then and write, then keep walking. I was in a weird mood that day.
LOL! Coolness! I'll be on the lookout for it. ;)

Maybe that's why the Prof. wasn't a Utrom. Not too many people were familiar with the comics then, so everyone would've associated him with Krang ('specially the kids who were watching). Maybe it was a good idea to have him remain human...

Bowser_Koopa

08-05-2002, 06:48 AM

also it would have been hard to make another puppet, and to imitate the growsness of an utrom would be very hard =P (no matter how grows an utrom is, vernon is worse (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=487&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start =360) :evilgrin:)

HorseTechie

08-05-2002, 10:41 AM

Wow... the theories, they are aflying. Funny thing was.. I never really thought much about this part of the movie!

I mean yeah, the whole mutate to Super Shredder in three seconds flat was unbeleiveble.. and then if he was so strong, how come he couldn't save himself? Feh... I just assumed he got knocked out, and then was drowned.

But... you have to wodner, what about all the fishies and sharks in the bay, that'll eat him and end up mutating from it? :P (Okay, I watch too much Animal Planet)

And then I go back and read this fic called True Forces, to see what a cool sequel to TMNT1 could have been. Unfortantley, this one is PG-13/R. Touche!

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 11:24 AM

TMNT 4 Steve irwin and the turtles must save the world from mutated shaks and fishies!!!!!!!!!!! :D :lol:

Karpo_007

08-05-2002, 11:26 AM

My hopes were up for the cgi because it could have taken totally new timeline where shredder would be their enemy... If there will be a fourt live action they really coldn't use shredder...

Nickokapo

08-05-2002, 11:29 AM

Shredder's cool, they should include him in the new movie :dead:

Karpo_007

08-05-2002, 11:32 AM

If its live action they cant...

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 11:34 AM

of couse he will be he is THE shred head!!!!!

Nickokapo

08-05-2002, 11:36 AM

yes!Good ole' tinhead! :lol:

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 11:37 AM

best bad guy EVER!!

Nickokapo

08-05-2002, 11:38 AM

AGREED!

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 11:42 AM

excluding Krang and that whole gang I'd say the Rat King is second

Nickokapo

08-05-2002, 11:46 AM

i like rat king very much...i don't know of he'd be my 2nd favorite villain...i'll have to think 'bout it :) but i definitely like him more than that gangster guy :D
edit: oh yeah, the gangster's name was don turtelli :P

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 11:47 AM

you mean big louie or whatever :lol:

HorseTechie

08-05-2002, 11:48 AM

And shredder makes the best fish and worm food around too. :P

You know he was made out of worms by the time Leo KOed him the second time around! ...the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...

Kali

08-05-2002, 12:40 PM

Of course, if the fourth movie does take after the first three, they could use Rat King or the comic's Baxter Stockman as a villain. Or do a City at War type storyline.

Karpo_007

08-05-2002, 01:00 PM

Yeah... But i was really hoping for shredder... NO king or stockman can take his place...

popkornLT

08-05-2002, 01:59 PM

I think for the fourth movie to be successful, Shredder must be in it. The movie has to be made for everybody, Turtle fans and not. I just don't think the movie would be as successful if say, the Rat King was their enemy instead of Shredder. Not enough people are familiar with the whole Turtles gang, and it would be harder to grab their interest. Of course, those are just my personal thoughts :goofygri:

To those of you saying that Shredder can't be in it if its live action... why not? And why CAN he be in it if its CGI? If its about the way he "died" in TMNT II, I think that could be easily worked around, like they did with the first "death".

Karpo_007

08-05-2002, 02:24 PM

They could not work around it without it sounding really stupid...
in cgi the timeline would be diffrent IE. nothing to do with live action movies...

Kali

08-05-2002, 02:38 PM

Well, we can't really say anything right now. We'll know what they're doing soon enough, and we just have to wait and see. We're just theorizing at the moment, giving opinions. The whole point of a discussion board.

There are several things they could do. A) They can base it on the new cartoon, which will be a whole new story from the other universes. B) They can follow the other movies with or without Shredder. They may come up with a story for how Shredder survived but I always thought a City at War movie would be a good follow up. Or C) They can make a whole new universe.

Karpo_007

08-05-2002, 02:41 PM

You are right kali... we just have to wait and see...

HorseTechie

08-05-2002, 04:19 PM

To those of you saying that Shredder can't be in it if its live action... why not? And why CAN he be in it if its CGI? If its about the way he "died" in TMNT II, I think that could be easily worked around, like they did with the first "death".
story plots n universes, I guess. In the movies, he'presumed dead/dead. The cartoons and TNM, he never really died.

But the CGI concepts are based off the Mirage comics, I heard. Since the second Shredder they encountered in Return to NY was made up worms, i can see the Foot Clan rebuilding another wormy Shredder! :P Or have Karai make another re-entrance.

Nturtle

08-05-2002, 06:23 PM

Or it could be like another seprate little universe :P

azure turtle

08-06-2002, 12:13 AM

Oh man... I'd love to see a movie based on the City At War storyline. I've heard a lot about those particular comics, and they sound incredible. Of course, Return To New York would be pretty cool too... A "wormy" Shredder. That would be one interesting way to revive him.

Karpo_007

08-06-2002, 09:47 AM

Well the retur to new york kind of happened in the first movie...

HorseTechie

08-06-2002, 11:54 AM

Kind of... only the farmhouse bit, maybe. But Leo and Raph weren't at each others throats, nor did Raph take off on his own trying to get Shedder for himself, only to be saved in the nick of time by Leo. Movie Raph was more concerned about Splinter... since well, it was his fault for bringing in the news reporter with a couple of straggling Foot, who found the Lair and kidnapped Splinter.