"Black Widow" solo MCU movie

[Andrew NDB]

Scarlet Johansson is getting 15 million for it. Seems like it's really happening.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/black-widow-movie-scarlett-johansson-lands-15-million-payday-1151328

[neatoman]

So like... 10 or more years after her debut in Iron Man 2?

[Andrew NDB]

So like... 10 or more years after her debut in Iron Man 2?

Better late than never?

[oldmanwinters]

"Important" movie?

[Andrew NDB]

"Important" movie?

They'll hopefully get that out of their system with "Captain Marvel."

[Cure]

Black Widow sucks.

[newfan]

Is anything more known about it other than it's being made? I was wondering if it would be a back an forth (then and now) type story.

[Shark_Blade]

Are we gonna see how she got that scar (#byebyebikini)?

[Andrew NDB]

Is anything more known about it other than it's being made? I was wondering if it would be a back an forth (then and now) type story.

Just this:
https://www.gq.com/story/the-black-widow-movie-has-a-director-and-a-plot-that-sounds-super-familiar

"Johansson’s Black Widow is reportedly set before the events of the first Avengers movie and sees the actress reprise the role of the Russian spy turned superheroine."

Which doesn't tell us much of anything. I doubt they would put all of their ducks into a straight up Avengers prequel (which would be 8 years before it by the time this comes out) so my guess is some back and forth, yeah. My guess is we'll certainly see 'Lil Natasha, the Red Room or whatever and all that.

[AquaParade]

I really do like the Black Widow of the MCU. Winter Soldier really helped me warm up to her. That said, I can't help but wonder if we'll get any other major players from the MCU in this movie. I can't help but want to see some other superheroes involved, but it may not be what this film is going for.

That said, I'd love to see Black Widow be the guest star in a Spider-Man movie, should the Sony + Marvel deal continue on. I think there could be a lot of fun mined from playing with their difference in age, moral codes, and Peter totally having the hot's for her. I just think there's a lot of humor and heart there.

[IMJ]

Captain Marvel - great character, movie worthy as long as it isn't politicized (it's like get over it people, we've had women led action movies basically even since the 60's).

Black Widow? Complete unnecessary as a stand alone film.

[Andrew NDB]

Apparently it's not a 90s/2000s prequel?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_widow/black-widow-set-photos-reveal-when-at-least-some-of-the-movie-is-setand-its-not-the-1990s-a169188

[Vegita-San]

They'll hopefully get that out of their system with "Captain Marvel."

i doubt it.

if the Russo's left, that means they most likely don't want to play ball with the new 'woke' kevin feige.

I would be MUCH more excited for this movie if it was done pre Endgame.

[Andrew NDB]

if the Russo's left, that means they most likely don't want to play ball with the new 'woke' kevin feige.

After Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, they're probably just really tired of sh*tting out MCU movies. I know I'd be. What is there left to be said?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

After Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, they're probably just really tired of sh*tting out MCU movies. I know I'd be. What is there left to be said?

Galactus and X-Men. And Doctor Doom. :trazz:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Two words- the Beyonder. Or Secret War. I'd take either.

[drgon78]

A little late.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

A little late.

Can't argue with that.

Marvel: "Hey, now that Natasha is dead, it's the perfect time for a Black Widow movie!"

Thanks, I guess? :tlol:

[Coola Yagami]

Apparently Taskmaster will be the villain?

[Sumac]

Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants (https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/scarlett-johansson-says-she-has-the-right-to-play-any-person.html)

I am starting to like her.
I hope more people will support her and say something like that.

[Andrew NDB]

Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants (https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/scarlett-johansson-says-she-has-the-right-to-play-any-person.html)

I am starting to like her.
I hope more people will support her and say something like that.

Agreed. She's 100% correct.

[Candy Kappa]

So, when is the Dalai Lama biopic starring her as the Lama himself coming out?

[Vegita-San]

am I the only one who think this issue contradicts each other?

when I first read her statement, I thought she WAS going 'woke' or 'npc'...not fighting against them. that's typically the type of thing they state.

I personally thought she left the building when she mentioned she should be able to play a tree.

[Shark_Blade]

I think that’s just a meme.... never seen her saying she wanted to play a tree.

[Papenbrook]

She has since apologized for any misunderstandings, and has tried to justify her previous stances. Other than that though, ...

Disgusting.

I will no longer be viewing any media with or about her.

I don't want to give her anymore attention.

[Autbot_Benz]

She has since apologized for any misunderstandings, and has tried to justify her previous stances. Other than that though, ...

Disgusting.

I will no longer be viewing any media with or about her.

I don't want to give her anymore attention.

I am sure Scarlett Johansson is just crushed some Woke SJW won't watch her stuff anymore :lol:

[snake]

Why shouldn't she be able to play whoever she wants?

[Andrew NDB]

Why shouldn't she be able to play whoever she wants?

She should be. She's an actor. As an actor you're pretending to be someone, something. And if you don't want to watch it you don't have to. Vote with your dollars.

The liberal agenda needs to get away from the arts.

[Sumac]

She has since apologized for any misunderstandings, and has tried to justify her previous stances. Other than that though, ...

Disgusting.

I will no longer be viewing any media with or about her.

I don't want to give her anymore attention.
I am sure she will be devastated by your decision.
HINT: no-one gives a hoot.

She is an actor, she can play whoever she wants. That's what actors do. If some crazy people are frothing at the their mouth because an actress plays someone - it is their issue. If they are so wonderful, brave, stunning and talented they surely won't have any problem to make their own successful movies, with whoever they want, right?

Or as a typical left, you want everything to be done for you, instead of doing it yourself?

[Mr Salk]

I don't see how anyone could disagree with Johansson. Movies are big business and big names are required to ensure big profits.

[Sumac]

B-b-but how about genuine minorities playing genuine minorities?!
Which obviously happens every time...!!
Shaking!!

[Andrew NDB]

Yikes...

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/black-widow-screenwriter-doesnt-want-to-please-fans-of-the-comics/

"I wasn’t a huge superhero movie fan before starting to work [at Marvel], but now that I’m doing it, there’s just so much opportunity to make big, positive statements"

"I would like to see alternatives to violence in superhero movies. Maybe I would qualify that by saying, alternatives to glamorizing guns and weaponry. That’s one of the reasons that I love Captain Marvel — it’s all about inner power. And the destruction is not at the expense of human life."

She does realize she's doing a movie about an assassin, right?

[Autbot_Benz]

Yikes...

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/black-widow-screenwriter-doesnt-want-to-please-fans-of-the-comics/

"I wasn’t a huge superhero movie fan before starting to work [at Marvel], but now that I’m doing it, there’s just so much opportunity to make big, positive statements"

"I would like to see alternatives to violence in superhero movies. Maybe I would qualify that by saying, alternatives to glamorizing guns and weaponry. That’s one of the reasons that I love Captain Marvel — it’s all about inner power. And the destruction is not at the expense of human life."

She does realize she's doing a movie about an assassin, right?

even the article that bleedingfool sources from is cringe worthy too

'Black Widow' Writer Jac Schaeffer Isn't Scared to Make the Fanboys Mad
"I’m not interested in the loud, sour-grapes voices."

https://www.inverse.com/article/58149-jac-schaeffer-interview-black-widow-mcu-phase-4

[joe-eyeball]

Yikes...

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/black-widow-screenwriter-doesnt-want-to-please-fans-of-the-comics/

"I wasn’t a huge superhero movie fan before starting to work [at Marvel], but now that I’m doing it, there’s just so much opportunity to make big, positive statements"

"I would like to see alternatives to violence in superhero movies. Maybe I would qualify that by saying, alternatives to glamorizing guns and weaponry. That’s one of the reasons that I love Captain Marvel — it’s all about inner power. And the destruction is not at the expense of human life."

She does realize she's doing a movie about an assassin, right?


Another Hollywood artist that thinks they can change the world with their work! Hilarious!

[Vegita-San]

The wokeness finally reached marvel movies.

I'm done with that franchise. it was the last batch of movies I could REALLY enjoy, that felt like movies felt BEFORE all this SJW crap began. And I'm a DC fan who knew nothing about Marvel.

now nothing is really left untouched.

[CyberCubed]

The wokeness finally reached marvel movies.

I'm done with that franchise. it was the last batch of movies I could REALLY enjoy, that felt like movies felt BEFORE all this SJW crap began. And I'm a DC fan who knew nothing about Marvel.

now nothing is really left untouched.

You hate women, we get it.

[TurtleTitan97]

The wokeness finally reached marvel movies.

I'm done with that franchise. it was the last batch of movies I could REALLY enjoy, that felt like movies felt BEFORE all this SJW crap began. And I'm a DC fan who knew nothing about Marvel.

now nothing is really left untouched.

Oh brother. :roll:

[Autbot_Benz]

The wokeness finally reached marvel movies.

I'm done with that franchise. it was the last batch of movies I could REALLY enjoy, that felt like movies felt BEFORE all this SJW crap began. And I'm a DC fan who knew nothing about Marvel.

now nothing is really left untouched.

https://i.imgur.com/UCnYSB7.gif

[neatoman]

Yikes...

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/black-widow-screenwriter-doesnt-want-to-please-fans-of-the-comics/

"I wasn’t a huge superhero movie fan before starting to work [at Marvel], but now that I’m doing it, there’s just so much opportunity to make big, positive statements"

"I would like to see alternatives to violence in superhero movies. Maybe I would qualify that by saying, alternatives to glamorizing guns and weaponry. That’s one of the reasons that I love Captain Marvel — it’s all about inner power. And the destruction is not at the expense of human life."

She does realize she's doing a movie about an assassin, right?

I'm going to point out here that while I don't think any humans died in Captain Marvel, Carol and her allies are indeed killing Kree, who would be indistinguishable from human beings if a few of them weren't blue. It's also worth noting that she knew them and thought she was one of them for six years, yet she's yelling in excitement as she's killing them. So while her statement about "the destruction is not at the expense of human life" is technically correct, it might as well not be.

[Coola Yagami]

You hate women, we get it.

Oh brother. :roll:

Ohhhhh let's not start that crap. It might shock you guys to know, but it is possible to make a woman led movie that isn't 'rubbing it in the face of males', 'showing the boys how its done' and 'will piss off the fanboys'.

I think one of the reasons Battle Angel Alita got some backlash here and there was the fact that they focused on actually making the best movie they could and adapting the original material without forcing a girl power message or some other political agenda in there.

[Andrew NDB]

I think one of the reasons Battle Angel Alita got some backlash here and there was the fact that they focused on actually making the best movie they could and adapting the original material without forcing a girl power message or some other political agenda in there.

I'm still very angry that movie didn't do gangbusters. It absolutely deserved to. My daughter loved the crap out of it as well.

[Vegita-San]

I appreciate the support, but don't feed the trolls. easier to put them on ignore so they argue with themselves :)

[Voltron]

She sure can play whoever or whatever she wants.

That being said, the freedom to portray things extends to all parties involved in creative works.

I wonder if people will lose their minds if they make a black, female James Bond a permanent thing? I mean, the actress has the right to play whoever she wants. . .

[Sumac]

There is a difference between playing historical character and fictional ones.
And fictional characters who have pre-established image.

[TurtleTitan97]

Ohhhhh let's not start that crap. It might shock you guys to know, but it is possible to make a woman led movie that isn't 'rubbing it in the face of males', 'showing the boys how its done' and 'will piss off the fanboys'.


I know that. Doesn't mean I can't still roll my eyes at cringy comments like this.

[Voltron]

There is a difference between playing historical character and fictional ones.
And fictional characters who have pre-established image.

Not in the context of the argument, no. If she can play whoever or whatever she wants, then that's what that means.

It's an issue of consistency. If you support her saying this now, then it should extend to everyone, yes? If Whoopi Goldberg is cast to play April O'Neil in the next TMNT film, is that a problem? Obviously, Goldberg looks and behaves nothing like the "pre-established" fictional character. It would definitely be an odd choice, to say the least. But according to Scarlett Johannson, it's just fine.

[Vegita-San]

There is a difference between playing historical character and fictional ones.
And fictional characters who have pre-established image.

Some people who claim to want peace, sometimes just want to bait.


Her wanting to play who and what she wants has nothing to do with the Black Widow writer saying she basically just wants to screw the fans of the franchise over. and you know it.

Besides, she should be able to play what she wants. whether that is the right choice for the franchise, or the movie in question is a TOTALLY separate issue.

[Sumac]

Not in the context of the argument, no. If she can play whoever or whatever she wants, then that's what that means.

It's an issue of consistency. If you support her saying this now, then it should extend to everyone, yes? If Whoopi Goldberg is cast to play April O'Neil in the next TMNT film, is that a problem? Obviously, Goldberg looks and behaves nothing like the "pre-established" fictional character. It would definitely be an odd choice, to say the least. But according to Scarlett Johannson, it's just fine.
Fair enough.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder if people will lose their minds if they make a black, female James Bond a permanent thing?

They can make a black, female 007, but not a black, female James Bond (though let's see them do that and see what happens, lol). The movies don't have "James Bond" as a moniker or a mantle, it's an actual person with a family and family history.

[Sumac]

They can make a black, female 007, but not a black, female James Bond (though let's see them do that and see what happens, lol). The movies don't have "James Bond" as a moniker or a mantle, it's an actual person with a family and family history.
Watch how the next argument will be "it's a fictional person - who cares? (and if you care you are sexist, racist monster)".

This is what you get in society imbued with post-modern / post-truth logic: nothing has meaning anymore, everything can be warped into something else and labels and words don't have any power whatsoever. This is why mere complaint about female character or agenda in the movies, made purely for the money is enough to label you as "nazi".

Of course, it will pass, as soon as critical mass of idiocy will be reached, which I think will be quite soon.

[Voltron]

Again, that's the issue with Johannson's comment:

If she can portray anyone she wants, why not James Bond?

Andrew's logic still holds: James Bond is an established character with a family history. Everyone, even non-fans, have certain expectations when it comes to James Bond.

Fictional characters are important to people. They are attached to childhood memories. They represent cultural values. They can serve as inspiration to be better people. I think the fact that we're having this discussion on a TMNT board is proof enough of that. There's a reason we tell stories.

Changes to those characters can be very upsetting, if not flat out enraging. I think holding true to a character's origin should be important.

If we're talking about Ghost in the Shell, I would've very much like to have seen a Japanese or an East Asian actress in the role. But I'd like to have seen that because it's truer to the character.

I think we can agree with the over all point being made without agreeing with the logic that lead some people there. We can say "I'm not happy with this choice of actor/actress portraying this character" without saying "everyone is a racist, sexist pig except for me".

On the flip-side of this argument, a number of "ginger" characters are being played by black actors. There's been some loons who've been using the exact same arguments as the SJWs to attack those choices. Awhile back, some media personalities had a row over whether or not Santa Claus could be black.

And at that point, you're right. I tend to find myself in the "I don't care" group. Because it's just not that important to me. To me. I could understand how some people might be upset over it. Perhaps some kids managed to figure out the truth about Santa from that information.

My point: arguing these things with cheap reasons like "it's racist" when there's little to no evidence is pointless. It always leads to other debates about some other hot button issue and everything just turns to crap. No body wins anything.

[Vegita-San]

They can make a black, female 007, but not a black, female James Bond (though let's see them do that and see what happens, lol). The movies don't have "James Bond" as a moniker or a mantle, it's an actual person with a family and family history.

Like I said... She should be able to play anyone she wants. whether or not it's good for the movie, or the movie in question IS the question. as with the above, James Bond is a white male. nothing less, nothing more.

007, on the other hand, is a bit more open to interpretation. although since James Bond has ALWAYS been 007.....it could be like a yankee pinstripe..once the great player retires, the code name is never used again.

[Coola Yagami]

Ghost in the Shell is a different case. Motoko never looked particularly Asian, and Scarjo brought the character to life as much as RDJ brought Tony Stark to life. The creator of the manga approved it. People in Japan see no issue. Scarjo practically IS Motoko in the movie leaping off the pages and brought to life.

IDK what it is, but there's just something in the way Japan draws their characters that when someone portrays them in live action, an actual Japanese person would look like they're cosplaying the character instead of actually being the character. I mean to the average person, Sailor Moon and Light Yagami look white. The Elric brothers are the fictitious version of Germans in their own book, etc.

I mean I don't think we ever got to see Motoko's real body in the series before she was rebuilt as a machine. The movie went the extra mile and showed flashbacks of what Motoko looked like as a human, though that also could have been to shut up the naysayers that never seen the actual series and just wanted to yell 'whitewashing'.

[Sumac]

Ironically Japanese characters looking white is a legacy of the creator of modern anime genre, Osamu Tezuka, who modeled his Japanese characters after characters in Disney movies.

Japanese apparently don't really bother with this - as long as character has Japanese name, he is Japanese, no matter what he looks like. If character is not-Japanese, he will look very different from any other characters in the setting.

[Voltron]

I've heard the same thing.

Although, if you ask people in Japan, anime characters look Japanese. The giant eyes aren't supposed to look European. They're just stylized that way.

I don't know, maybe they're just referring to Shinjuku cosplayers who dress like cartoon characters every day.

[neatoman]

Ironically Japanese characters looking white is a legacy of the creator of modern anime genre, Osamu Tezuka, who modeled his Japanese characters after characters in Disney movies.

Japanese apparently don't really bother with this - as long as character has Japanese name, he is Japanese, no matter what he looks like. If character is not-Japanese, he will look very different from any other characters in the setting.

No, they just draw people without really thinking about how they look different. That's because in Japan you don't necessarily think of people around you as "Japanese" or "Asian" but as people, it's foreigner who is something of note (sorry if I can't express this better). If you actually look up anime characters who are indeed meant to be white, you'll notice some differences from characters who are meant to be Japanese. Here you have Roy and Hikaru from Macross, take note of how Roy is taller, has more sqaure features, a bigger nose, blonde hair, etc:
https://robotechreviewed.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/rick-roy.png

[Sumac]

No, they just draw people without really thinking about how they look different.
And this is started with Osamu Tezuka being fan of Disney.

If you actually look up anime characters who are indeed meant to be white, you'll notice some differences from characters who are meant to be Japanese. Here you have Roy and Hikaru from Macross, take note of how Roy is taller, has more sqaure features, a bigger nose, blonde hair, etc:
https://robotechreviewed.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/rick-roy.png
This is what I've said.
:ohwell:

[neatoman]

And this is started with Osamu Tezuka being fan of Disney.


This is what I've said.
:ohwell:

Sorry, I must have had a brainfart reading your post. Anyway, still nice to depict an actual example though.

[Redeemer]

No, they just draw people without really thinking about how they look different. That's because in Japan you don't necessarily think of people around you as "Japanese" or "Asian" but as people, it's foreigner who is something of note (sorry if I can't express this better). If you actually look up anime characters who are indeed meant to be white, you'll notice some differences from characters who are meant to be Japanese. Here you have Roy and Hikaru from Macross, take note of how Roy is taller, has more sqaure features, a bigger nose, blonde hair, etc:
https://robotechreviewed.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/rick-roy.png

This is the exact opposite from my experience/observation. My favorite anime is FullMetal Alchemist BrotherHood. The main characters and setting is suppose to be European, but all the characters look just like any other Anime character, except for character who are from "Xing", characters from "Xing" are supposed to be Asian and they exaggerate the eyes by giving the main characters(Ling) squinting eyes.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

No, they just draw people without really thinking about how they look different. That's because in Japan you don't necessarily think of people around you as "Japanese" or "Asian" but as people, it's foreigner who is something of note (sorry if I can't express this better). If you actually look up anime characters who are indeed meant to be white, you'll notice some differences from characters who are meant to be Japanese. Here you have Roy and Hikaru from Macross, take note of how Roy is taller, has more sqaure features, a bigger nose, blonde hair, etc:
https://robotechreviewed.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/rick-roy.png


Um, not to nit-pick, but the character is Rick Hunter, and he was hardly Asian. He is shorter because he was a teenager! He even has blue eyes! Hubby is a big Macross/Robotech fan. It's also an American anime. Hikaru is just the name they use in the Japanese version. Minmei and her family are the only major Asian characters!

[neatoman]

Um, not to nit-pick, but the character is Rick Hunter, and he was hardly Asian. He is shorter because he was a teenager! He even has blue eyes! Hubby is a big Macross/Robotech fan. It's also an American anime. Hikaru is just the name they use in the Japanese version. Minmei and her family are the only major Asian characters!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/052/245/1258351206080.png

[Candy Kappa]

I'm pretty certain it's stated that Hikaru Ichijyo is Japanese in Macross, whatever a mishmash show otherwise state is kinda moot, cause it's a different canon. It's like claiming Boi the Tiger Ranger in Super Sentai Zyuranger is a woman cause the Yellow Ranger is in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers

[MsMarvelDuckie]

The Macross/Robotech series (and movies) was produced by Harmony Gold USA, under American producers, director, and even the creator- who died not too long ago. The Japanese version is NOT the original, and in fact Rick Hunter is supposed to be from the midwest, where he was a pilot for a flying circus! He's not Japanese. He and Roy flew in the flying circus together, and Rick often called him "big brother"! Rick's dad was in US Navy, and later adopted Roy after his best friend (Roy's father) died. It's even in the stats on the official figures, which mentions Hunter having black hair and BLUE eyes. Having dark hair and being shorter do NOT make him Japanese- he was a dark-haired AMERICAN teenager! This is canon! (The Japanese version is not considered canon by the creator, btw....)

[Candy Kappa]

Huh, I didn't know Robotech which came out in 1985 and is a show created by mixing SDF Macross, Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and The Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross into one cartoon, is the original over Macross that predates Robotech by three years.

Very interesting.

[neatoman]

The Macross/Robotech series (and movies) was produced by Harmony Gold USA, under American producers, director, and even the creator- who died not too long ago. The Japanese version is NOT the original, and in fact Rick Hunter is supposed to be from the midwest, where he was a pilot for a flying circus! He's not Japanese. He and Roy flew in the flying circus together, and Rick often called him "big brother"! Rick's dad was in US Navy, and later adopted Roy after his best friend (Roy's father) died. It's even in the stats on the official figures, which mentions Hunter having black hair and BLUE eyes. Having dark hair and being shorter do NOT make him Japanese- he was a dark-haired AMERICAN teenager! This is canon! (The Japanese version is not considered canon by the creator, btw....)

It's nonsense is what it is.

Wikipedia clearly states Studio Nue originally pitched Macross in 1980 and ended up being distributed by Tatsunoko. The show aired it's first episode on October 3rd 1982 and it's last on June 26th 1983. The only mention of Harmony Gold is that they licensed Macross a year after it concluded. Nue and Tatsunoko's involvement was either omitted or downplayed in the credits of Robotech, but that was very common for American editions of foreign media (even my modern DVD sets of Dragon Ball uses credits that mostly note Funimation staff).

The only thing about the Robotech version of Macross that is "unique" are episodes of two unrelated shows and an OVA that have been edited to seem like a continuation of Macross, none of which have been proven to have been produced with the intention of export or involvement with Americans either. There is are two entirely original movies produced under the Robotech title, but both were made well after Macross and the other projects concluded their respective runs.

It's also worth mentioning that Harmony Gold have the license through Tatsunoko, while Japanese court has declared Nue to be the rightful copyright holder of Macross. The various Macross projects made since the original series and the movie weren't made with involvement from either Tatsunoko or Harmony Gold, nor do they have any claim to distribution of them. HG have been known to enforce counterclaims on anyone else trying to license Macross, which worked but are kind of questionable. To claim Harmony Gold's involvement is anything other than producing derivatives is nonsense.

How did you get that wrong? I'm sorry this post is so long, but it's a well known controversy and it's very clear that American involvement is just licensing at the end of the day. Getting back on topic, it's very clear that Hikaru is Japanese and that "Rick Hunter" is just the result of a very liberal translation.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Okey, yeah, I looked it up, and you're right about the dates. However, the fact remains that he IS confirmed to be American both in the RT series and in the English dub of Macross, and grew up in the US. (Even the island the Macross crashed on was implied to be in Hawaii and there were references to the "mainland", ie, the US, where the UN Spacey was headquartered.) Also, while names were changed, even Claudia (who is black!) had a "Japanese" name in Macross, so.... there ya go. Then again, they tend not to even distinguish American/European characters, even by name (since most characters have Japanese names regardless of ethnicity or country of origin), much less appearance. (Max, another character, had blue hair, and Miriya, a Zentradi alien, had green! Neither of them is Japanese, but both had Japanese style names in Macross, but not in RT.....)

I mean, you COULD argue he was Japanese, but with Claudia, that entire line of thought falls apart. For that matter, so does L(M)isa, who is a dark blonde or light brunette, and also just as clearly not Asian at all. But she has a "Japanese" name in Macross!! (Which is very obviously a loose translation of the English name, but whatevs.)

[Candy Kappa]

Claudia don’t have a "Japanese" name, though. It’s written in katakana

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Was referring to the list of characters in the SDFM cast, which has her as Kurodia Rasaru, rather than Claudia Grant.. In any case, hers is just an example of characters being given Asian-style names in spite of, y'know, not actually being of Asian ethnicity. In any case, the point of all this was that anime characters in general tend to be labeled as Asian no matter what their actual origin, so going by the character's individual name, face-shape or hair color really doesn't mean anything. (Not when so many have racially unusual or even unnatural colors.... Or when black/dark hair can be found in nearly EVERY ethnic background.) Eyes, on the other hand? Probably a better point to measure by. How many green or blue-eyed Asians do we ever see? Aside from that one time Jack Burton encountered one..... :twink:

[ProphetofGanja]

So y’all think Taskmaster is gonna be the only villain or is there gonna be another

[Coola Yagami]

So y’all think Taskmaster is gonna be the only villain or is there gonna be another

IDK too much about him. Is he a boss type or a hired gun type?

[Sumac]

IDK too much about him. Is he a boss type or a hired gun type?
In comic books he is a mercenary.

[neatoman]

Was referring to the list of characters in the SDFM cast, which has her as Kurodia Rasaru, rather than Claudia Grant.. In any case, hers is just an example of characters being given Asian-style names in spite of, y'know, not actually being of Asian ethnicity. In any case, the point of all this was that anime characters in general tend to be labeled as Asian no matter what their actual origin, so going by the character's individual name, face-shape or hair color really doesn't mean anything. (Not when so many have racially unusual or even unnatural colors.... Or when black/dark hair can be found in nearly EVERY ethnic background.) Eyes, on the other hand? Probably a better point to measure by. How many green or blue-eyed Asians do we ever see? Aside from that one time Jack Burton encountered one..... :twink:

First off, Grant is a name given to her in the dub, in the original it's LaSalle. More importantly however, the Kurodia Rasaru spelling is just a result of a flaw in the Japanese script. Simple sounds like Clau, La and Le aren't really found in the Japanese language, Kuro, Ra and Aru are about as close as you can get.

This: クローディア・ラサー
Is essentially written like this: [Ku][Ro][Di][A] [Ra][Sa][Ru] (The brackets imply one letter).

An example relevant to this thread, Scarlett Johansson is written as スカーレット・ヨハンソン, which becomes Sukaretto Yohanson.

So no, it's still pretty clear that Hikaru is Japanese. I'll admit it's unusual that he has blue eyes but the point that Roy looks distinct from him still stands.

[Candy Kappa]

And to add on Neato’s comment, Claudia LaSalle’s name is written in katakana which is the letter system used for borrow words, foreign words and names. While Hikaru’s Name is written in kanji: 一条 輝 (Ichijō Hikaru)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So y’all think Taskmaster is gonna be the only villain or is there gonna be another

I was figuring a rival Black Widow for a second villain.

[Coola Yagami]

In comic books he is a mercenary.

Hmm so in that case the real villain might be evil business man # 12 and Taskmaster might be hired when his regular goons can't handle the Widow.

[ProphetofGanja]

I was figuring a rival Black Widow for a second villain.

Seems like a safe bet.


I think the even bigger question is, will there be any type of modern-day framing device in this story or will it be a pure flashback, set entirely in the late 90s or early aughts or whenever it’s set

[Andrew NDB]

Seems like a safe bet.


I think the even bigger question is, will there be any type of modern-day framing device in this story

I'm betting on "yes."

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Seems like a safe bet.


I think the even bigger question is, will there be any type of modern-day framing device in this story or will it be a pure flashback, set entirely in the late 90s or early aughts or whenever it’s set

I would say there's no way they don't frame it, but they didn't frame Captain Marvel at all. Finally watched it last night, BTW. I was unimpressed; it was fine.

[Andrew NDB]

Captain Marvel didn't need a framing device because she was going to be in Avengers Endgame anyway in 2 months. And it did have that scene at the end with her answering Fury's call in the present (that, surprisingly to me, didn't reappear in Endgame's running time).

The way I see it, with Black Widow dead... the reasoning behind making her solo movie now can't just be to "make good" on never doing one before. It's got to set up something happening now, or in the foreseeable future. Maybe it's something as mundane as "The Skrulls, Chapter 2" by showing the evil ones and all that, but I don't think so. I also don't think it's just to introduce a new Black Widow. And if they're doing "big female Avengers" movie or whatever, they'd be remiss not to include her.

Totally random possibility but what if she befriends a particular Skrull in her movie in the recent past and then we revisit Vormir with Black Widow's body laying there in the BW movie... and her face morphs into a Skrull's?

[Voltron]

Totally random possibility but what if she befriends a particular Skrull in her movie in the recent past and then we revisit Vormir with Black Widow's body laying there in the BW movie... and her face morphs into a Skrull's?

That would bother me. The Soul Stone was supposed to be somewhat conscious. Being able to manipulate and control souls, I would hope it knew which souls it was controlling. So just disguising someone else as someone you love is kind of cheap.

As much as I like the character, I was thrilled that death took this time. It wasn't something she "got better" from.

[CyberCubed]

I think a lot of people feel this is a “filler movie” where if it doesn’t set anything up in the modern timeline it’ll be ultimately skippable in the grand scheme of things. Not that it can’t be a good movie on its own right, it probably will, but there’s no “hook” so to speak unless you really like Natasha’s character.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That would bother me. The Soul Stone was supposed to be somewhat conscious. Being able to manipulate and control souls, I would hope it knew which souls it was controlling. So just disguising someone else as someone you love is kind of cheap.

As much as I like the character, I was thrilled that death took this time. It wasn't something she "got better" from.

Just wait for the Avengers V: The Search for Natasha. Her katra is currently residing inside Clint's mind.

[ProphetofGanja]

I would say there's no way they don't frame it, but they didn't frame Captain Marvel at all. Finally watched it last night, BTW. I was unimpressed; it was fine.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty lackluster, relative to other MCU movies. I wasn’t a fan of the editing in the first half of the movie, and I think Carol is portrayed as waaay too OP to lend herself well to good storylines

Captain Marvel didn't need a framing device because she was going to be in Avengers Endgame anyway in 2 months. And it did have that scene at the end with her answering Fury's call in the present (that, surprisingly to me, didn't reappear in Endgame's running time).

The way I see it, with Black Widow dead... the reasoning behind making her solo movie now can't just be to "make good" on never doing one before. It's got to set up something happening now, or in the foreseeable future. Maybe it's something as mundane as "The Skrulls, Chapter 2" by showing the evil ones and all that, but I don't think so. I also don't think it's just to introduce a new Black Widow. And if they're doing "big female Avengers" movie or whatever, they'd be remiss not to include her.



I agree that scene from the end of Captain Marvel should’ve been included in Endgame; it’s just one of many missteps I feel the movie made. It’s not a bad movie, but I wanted it to be so much better. We should’ve seen the debut of Professor Hulk, too.

That would bother me. The Soul Stone was supposed to be somewhat conscious. Being able to manipulate and control souls, I would hope it knew which souls it was controlling. So just disguising someone else as someone you love is kind of cheap.

As much as I like the character, I was thrilled that death took this time. It wasn't something she "got better" from.

Yeah I think it’s be kinda cheap if they undid Nat’s death, as unfortunate as that is

I think a lot of people feel this is a “filler movie” where if it doesn’t set anything up in the modern timeline it’ll be ultimately skippable in the grand scheme of things. Not that it can’t be a good movie on its own right, it probably will, but there’s no “hook” so to speak unless you really like Natasha’s character.

I hope that’s not the case but I guess we’ll get a feel for that when the first trailer drops later this year

[Papenbrook]

She has since apologized for any misunderstandings, and has tried to justify her previous stances. Other than that though, ...

Disgusting.

I will no longer be viewing any media with or about her.

I don't want to give her anymore attention.


... and just like that, she's managed to grab my attention. ( "https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2019-09-04/scarlett-johansson-woody-allen-interview")

I don't even know why she continues to get work.

[The Deadman]

... and just like that, she's managed to grab my attention. ( "https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2019-09-04/scarlett-johansson-woody-allen-interview")

I don't even know why she continues to get work.

Who cares?

[Sumac]

A woman has her own opinion?
Unacceptable!!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

A woman has her own opinion?
Unacceptable!!

If only they stayed in the kitchen and bedroom where they belonged.

He said satirically, because this is the internet and people are stupid.

[newfan]

Just came across this, Iron man to appear, not sure of the extent (as he is expensive)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/movies/black-widow-to-feature-robert-downey-jrs-iron-man/ar-AAHl5sU?ocid=spartandhp

[Autbot_Benz]

RxAtuMu_ph4

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

RxAtuMu_ph4

What a perfect time for a Black Widow movie, said nobody sane ever. Because she's fvcking DEAD.

I can't even say "better late than never." But I can say I'm still watching this. So, I guess maybe it is better late than never...?

There's a pun in there for those diligent enough to dig it out, gentle readers.

[newfan]

I intend to watch this but yes, agreed, would have been better had it they done it before they killed her!

[AquaParade]

If I had to bet, I'd say this will fall in the 50% of MCU movies I really enjoy and want to own. I could nitpick a few things, but I'll wait until I see the movie, because overall I think it looks pretty cool.

I have to say, I like the idea of not having to stick to a linear timeline and I wouldn't mind seeing Marvel play with it more. I like the idea of a character being allowed to have an endpoint to their story, even if they are contractually obligated to do more, want to do more, etc. I think it opens you up to a bit more freedom with the storytelling when used correctly.

[Andrew NDB]

What a perfect time for a Black Widow movie, said nobody sane ever. Because she's fvcking DEAD.


I intend to watch this but yes, agreed, would have been better had it they done it before they killed her!

Or DID they?

[newfan]

Or DID they?

Interesting point. I suppose thinking about Iron Man's funeral, her aftermath wasn't largely done...so who knows. Looks good anyway, hopefully not one of those movies that look much better on the trailer than they are :)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Or DID they?

They did. They absolutely did.

Unless they pull a Gamora, which I still think is a crock of $hit.

[Sumac]

I don't see problems with Gamora ressurection. Now bringing back Nat in this fashion would be strange.

But it's a comic book movies. We have a guy who after lethal dose of radiation transforms into green monster. And magic stones which can wipe out half of the universe. So..anything could happen.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't see problems with Gamora ressurection. Now bringing back Nat in this fashion would be strange.

On the one hand, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 would feel a bit off without Gamora in it.

But on the other hand, I like my character deaths in movies to have weight. Bringing a previous version of Gamora back to replace the dead one lessens Gamora's murder by Thanos in my eyes.

[AquaParade]

I can understand the frustration with Gamora. I think the way they handled her is more interesting than just straight up bringing "our Gamora" back though. It may prove to bring an interesting dynamic in future movies.

But yeah, def get it. I think I was surprised with how much finality Endgame did have at the end of the day, however. I pretty much went into it expecting no one to die and everyone to come back. So I was pleasantly surprised to see them finally give us a bit of consequence and ending for some characters.

[drgon78]

It would have been nice if they did this like 5 years ago.

[Andrew NDB]

All I can say is, if you're sitting there honestly thinking, "We're just going to get a Black Widow movie set before 'Infinity War' that's just a day/week in the life of her and then that's it for Black Widow!" I believe you're fooling yourself.

But on the other hand, I like my character deaths in movies to have weight. Bringing a previous version of Gamora back to replace the dead one lessens Gamora's murder by Thanos in my eyes.

We already saw that Original Gamora was "alive" on that ethereal plane in "Infinity War." They just need to unite that Gamora with the time-crossed one and all will be fine.

Which they better do. It's pretty stupid and a waste that we got three movies of Starlord/Gamora relationship buildup just to have the reset button hit and have them start over from scratch as strangers, if not.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

All I can say is, if you're sitting there honestly thinking, "We're just going to get a Black Widow movie set before 'Infinity War' that's just a day/week in the life of her and then that's it for Black Widow!" I believe you're fooling yourself.

I feel exactly the opposite. :tlol: It will be fun to see which one of us is right in 5 months...

We already saw that Original Gamora was "alive" on that ethereal plane in "Infinity War." They just need to unite that Gamora with the time-crossed one and all will be fine.

Which they better do. It's pretty stupid and a waste that we got three movies of Starlord/Gamora relationship buildup just to have the reset button hit and have them start over from scratch as strangers, if not.

While I don't see the Soul Gem Gamora soul merging with 2012 Gamora, I do agree it is/was a waste of all that relationship building just to kill Gamora and have them start over.

[snake]

I'm so pissed they made Taskmaster into a generic tacticool MCU design instead of making him look like a skeleton, which would be visually interesting. Seriously, I thought they were over that phase. Apparently someone behind the camera doesn't realize that they're not working on a Netflix show anymore.

[IMJ]

I'm so pissed they made Taskmaster into a generic tacticool MCU design instead of making him look like a skeleton, which would be visually interesting. Seriously, I thought they were over that phase. Apparently someone behind the camera doesn't realize that they're not working on a Netflix show anymore.

Another Iron Man style villain that they dropped the ball on.
Taskmaster, an Avengers and espionage staple with a great look, bu now looks like a G.I. Joe.
The Mandarin - don't get me started.
Whiplash looking like a street thug and not named Mark Scarlotti, but instead given the name of the Crimson Dynamo, but no Crimson Dynamo ever showing up.
Blizzard being made into a goofball kid with a weather machine on Agents of SHIELD.
Spymaster never turned up anywhere, although that would've been perfect for film.
Justin Hammer turned into a young, wisecracking asswipe instead of a brilliant, Machiavellian old guy.

All epic, epic failures given what could have been.

[Andrew NDB]

The Mandarin - don't get me started.

There's hope for him yet in Shang-Chi.

Justin Hammer turned into a young, wisecracking asswipe instead of a brilliant, Machiavellian old guy.

Hope for him, too. Not a lot, but some.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There's hope for him yet in Shang-Chi.

That'd be like seeing Batman go an entire seven movies without ever fighting the Joker, dying... and then having to watch a movie where Shazam fights the Joker.

What's even the point?

[Andrew NDB]

That'd be like seeing Batman go an entire seven movies without ever fighting the Joker, dying... and then having to watch a movie where Shazam fights the Joker.

Isn't that almost exactly what they're doing with Batman and the Joker?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Isn't that almost exactly what they're doing with Batman and the Joker?

Except we've seen excellent Batman/Joker movies before. Well, at least one, two if you like Jack Nicholson in the '89 movie.

This is the only live-action portrayal of Iron Man ever. And his arch nemesis was a fvcking punchline in a bad movie. It's like the Batman & Robin of the Iron Man series. :tlol:

[AquaParade]

Taskmaster's look is a disappointment in a sense. On one hand, I think he looks pretty damn cool. On the other hand, when I think of his comic costume, it feels like they dropped the ball on doing something really fun. I'm sure they tried and couldn't nail it. We'll probably seem some concepts that are closer to the real thing in the next year or so.

[IMJ]

That'd be like seeing Batman go an entire seven movies without ever fighting the Joker, dying... and then having to watch a movie where Shazam fights the Joker.

What's even the point?

THANK YOU!!!!

Right there... Boom!

Thank you. Exactly. Exactly....

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

THANK YOU!!!!

Right there... Boom!

Thank you. Exactly. Exactly....

I'm not a diehard Iron Man fan like you, amigo, but I do hate Iron Man 3 with a passion. A dark throbbing hatred, reserved for the scurrilous likes of fish tacos and truck nuts.

That terrible kid sidekick, Mandarin as a joke, terrible Extremis adaptation, the giant boob bunny thing... such a goshawful film.

Shane Black owes me an apology, $30 for movie tickets, and my crushed sense of optimism.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm not a diehard Iron Man fan like you, amigo, but I do hate Iron Man 3 with a passion. A dark throbbing hatred, reserved for the scurrilous likes of fish tacos and truck nuts.

That terrible kid sidekick, Mandarin as a joke, terrible Extremis adaptation, the giant boob bunny thing... such a goshawful film.

Shane Black owes me an apology, $30 for movie tickets, and my crushed sense of optimism.

Iron Man 2 disappointed me greatly but Iron Man 3 actually pissed me off, and I can't say that about many movies.

Sadly, I don't know that we can 100% blame Shane Black for things. Neither with The Predator. The studio tends to roll on over him in anything that isn't a small indie movie.

[Leo656]

Shrimp Tacos are f*cking incredible you godless heathens.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Shrimp Tacos are f*cking incredible you godless heathens.

I'll defer judgment on shrimp tacos until I actually eat one, but fish tacos specifically...

Hell no. The only way to eat fish is raw.

[IMJ]

Shrimp Tacos are f*cking incredible you godless heathens.

Shrimp burrito for the win for me.
Anyway, not much of Marvel's upcoming slate excites me at all, and like Star Wars I won't go and blindly see every Marvel film that comes out anymore. But the Black Widow trailer looks engaging. It has the vibes of the best of the Marvel flicks since '08 rather than some of the agenda stuff.

And where are the SJW snowflakes now that Marvel isn't marketing Black Widow as an anti-man, "woman's lib" movie? Shouldn't they be frothing at the mouth right now about how Black Widow is strong and stunning and whatever other coffee house adjective they fling is?

[Sumac]

Iron Man 2 was mediocre.
Iron Man 3 was great.

Also, I wonder what will be the next arc in the Marvel movies? And who will be the main villain?
The only other big name baddie, comparable to Thanos I know, is the Apocalypse from X-Men.

[Andrew NDB]

And where are the SJW snowflakes now that Marvel isn't marketing Black Widow as an anti-man, "woman's lib" movie? Shouldn't they be frothing at the mouth right now about how Black Widow is strong and stunning and whatever other coffee house adjective they fling is?

They're waiting for SJW articles and a consensus on it from their peoples before making their talking points. Because oh, it's coming. Wait for it.

"Why Black Widow isn't the superhero we want"/"Black Widow: Too little, too late!" and such. Probably digging up old stuff like "Age of Ultron" with her comparing being sterilized to being a monster and such and Scarlet Johansson white-washing Ghost in the Shell and almost that transexual movie she had to drop out of because ire.

Also, I wonder what will be the next arc in the Marvel movies? And who will be the main villain?
The only other big name baddie, comparable to Thanos I know, is the Apocalypse from X-Men.

Dr. Doom. Galactus. In either order.

[IMJ]

Ghost in the Shell

I could have left some of the story changes on the floor, but given the source material, that movie was terrific. It's such a shame that it's success was hindered simply by the coincidence of timing the social zeitgeist it was released in. Beautifully filmed flick and a great, great effort towards the source material.

On another note, I don't know how anyone could call Iron Man 3 great. I mean if that's truly your opinion, then so be it, but most of the time those holders-on tend to be the same normies that make observations of the lowest common denominator like "that kid in the funeral? He's the next Iron Man in the next movie!" That kid was a Shane Black trope that has nothing to do with Iron Man in any incarnation ever, but it's the simplest viewer observation to make.

I've widely seen support for that movie drop off as time has distanced the societal demand to say that a new Marvel movie was "the best one yet!" Unpopular truth - there several MCU movies that are not good. They are just event films and people recall the excitement of doing something more than the movie itself. It's a PSYC101 critical thinking error.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I've widely seen support for that movie drop off as time has distanced the societal demand to say that a new Marvel movie was "the best one yet!" Unpopular truth - there several MCU movies that are not good. They are just event films and people recall the excitement of doing something more than the movie itself. It's a PSYC101 critical thinking error.

I'm still way more excited to rewatch a Nolan Dark Knight film than any MCU film.

I've got the entire MCU run of DVDs (minus IM3 and Captain Marvel) on my shelf, and I probably won't rewatch them until my kids are old enough. Hell, I haven't even taken the plastic wrap off Spider-Man Far From Home... didn't see it in theaters, want to see it, just can't be bothered to actually put it in the player. :tlol:

[IMJ]

I'm still way more excited to rewatch a Nolan Dark Knight film than any MCU film.

I've got the entire MCU run of DVDs (minus IM3 and Captain Marvel) on my shelf, and I probably won't rewatch them until my kids are old enough. Hell, I haven't even taken the plastic wrap off Spider-Man Far From Home... didn't see it in theaters, want to see it, just can't be bothered to actually put it in the player. :tlol:

Yeah I understand the sentiment. Once in a blue moon I might still drop the first Iron Man, Winter Soldier or Avengers 1 into the disc tray as background noise.

I'm a little interested in verifiably good 4k transfers, but that's it.

[Andrew NDB]

I could have left some of the story changes on the floor, but given the source material, that movie was terrific. It's such a shame that it's success was hindered simply by the coincidence of timing the social zeitgeist it was released in. Beautifully filmed flick and a great, great effort towards the source material.

I've been meaning to give it a shot. Honestly the only thing that made me stay away was the PG-13 rating. Stuff like this has no business being that.

On another note, I don't know how anyone could call Iron Man 3 great.

It has some well-written dialogue. There, that's the only good thing I can say about it.

I'm still way more excited to rewatch a Nolan Dark Knight film than any MCU film.

Of course.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah I understand the sentiment. Once in a blue moon I might still drop the first Iron Man, Winter Soldier or Avengers 1 into the disc tray as background noise.

I'm a little interested in verifiably good 4k transfers, but that's it.

I've rewatch GOTG 1 and 2, or everything in the Captain America sequence of films, but other than that...

You kinda have to be in the mood for Marvel, and I'm finding that I'm not actually in that mood very often. Partly because everything is so damn connected.

It's hard to watch, say, an Iron Man movie without having to watch a ton of Avengers movies, a Captain America movie, and even a fvcking Spiderman movie afterwards. That's like two weeks worth of film right there. And it all kind of blends into one big narrative.

But if I want to watch Batman, that's three nights in a row, not two weeks. And a hell of a lot less forgettable individually.

It's like the difference between IDW and Mirage TMNT. Once a year or two, I'll reread the entire IDW sequence. But if I just want to read a good TMNT story one night? I grab my City at War hardbacks.

Long-form narrative is fascinating, but it's also kind of exhausting.

[AquaParade]

Iron Man 3 is a huge mix of good and bad for me. At the end of the day, it's not worth sifting through the bad to get to the good.

I really like the character work at play. The anxiety angle was much-needed after all Tony had been through. Something I felt was lacking with Peter in Far From Home, where they wanted to tell a fun story and succeeded, but Peter should have been pretty screwed up, and that's hard to ignore.

I also thought there were some good action bits. The airplane sequence and the home invasion scenes are pretty cool. The finale didn't do squat for me, but I can say that about too many blockbuster comicbook movies.

On the negative side, the masterful Extremis arc, by Warren Ellis, was terribly adapted here. It's such good material and seeing it adapted badly, hurts.
And The villain was so goofy. Worse, they used that technique of making the villain, like, such a goddamn doofus in the way he acts and speaks, as a motivator for you to hate him. And it works. It's an icky feeling.

Don't love it.

[Sumac]

On another note, I don't know how anyone could call Iron Man 3 great..
Easy.
It's a fan buddy-cop movie with comic book dressing. As for canons, I don't really care about them.

[TommyT]

I don't think anybody actually wants this movie, it feels like an afterthought, built on inclusiveness. The character in the comics is cool, and I liked the recent story arc. The MCU version, not so much.

[raph27]

I'll come out in defense of Iron Man 3. Hated it for years, then finally rewatched it on my full MCU rewatch before Infinity War and it softened my feelings on it. Focusing on Tony's anxiety post-Avengers was a great direction to go in, and contrary to the opinion of many I think that it's engaging to see him work out problems without relying on the suits.

Now, I'll admit it has problems. In hindsight, it's obvious that Maya was supposed to be the real big bad before Perlmutter and co. made the switch to Killian, and I think that she would have turned out as a better villain. Plus, the utter lack of any defenses on Tony's house in Malibu always stuck out as off. But overall, it's a solid watch and sure is a hell lot better than Iron Man 2, which is my personal least favorite of the MCU.

[IMJ]

Easy.
It's a fan buddy-cop movie with comic book dressing.

Fair enough with this... sure, yeah.

and contrary to the opinion of many I think that it's engaging to see him work out problems without relying on the suits.

This is something that most hardcore Iron Man fans (like the Advanced Iron guys, for example) tend to see as the beginnings of something that could've been great about the movie. It's very much a Layton & Michelinie approach to the character. I actually don't think I've ever seen a solid argument against this or a complaint about it.

I don't think anybody actually wants this movie, it feels like an afterthought, built on inclusiveness. The character in the comics is cool, and I liked the recent story arc. The MCU version, not so much.

I've got to admit - the trailer looks more "Winter Soldier" than "Craptain Marvel", and Scarlett/Black Widow is much more compelling and likeable on every level than Brie.

As long as Marvel doesn't start pushing an agenda with this one like they did with Craptain Marvel, I'll pay to see it. But as soon as it becomes an agenda vehicle, I'm out.

[Andrew NDB]

Trailer seems pretty devoid of agenda to me. But it could be buried there or disguised, like "Knives Out"'s marketing did.

Who's even the villain of this movie? Who I thought was the villain is like her dad or something, going by the trailer. Or will it just be the inevitable "they are revealed as evil" thing near the end?

[ProphetofGanja]

I'll come out in defense of Iron Man 3. Hated it for years, then finally rewatched it on my full MCU rewatch before Infinity War and it softened my feelings on it. Focusing on Tony's anxiety post-Avengers was a great direction to go in, and contrary to the opinion of many I think that it's engaging to see him work out problems without relying on the suits.

Now, I'll admit it has problems. In hindsight, it's obvious that Maya was supposed to be the real big bad before Perlmutter and co. made the switch to Killian, and I think that she would have turned out as a better villain. Plus, the utter lack of any defenses on Tony's house in Malibu always stuck out as off. But overall, it's a solid watch and sure is a hell lot better than Iron Man 2, which is my personal least favorite of the MCU.

Hear, hear

100% cosign on that

[Sumac]

Trailer seems pretty devoid of agenda to me. But it could be buried there or disguised, like "Knives Out"'s marketing did.

Who's even the villain of this movie? Who I thought was the villain is like her dad or something, going by the trailer. Or will it just be the inevitable "they are revealed as evil" thing near the end?
I think Taskmaster was mentioned. But from I understood, he is more of a mercenary rather than 100% villain.

I wonder how they gonna handle his special ability.

[Autbot_Benz]

Delayed/Release pushed back because of Corona Virus

https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1239961520349446147

[Andrew NDB]

Delayed/Release pushed back because of Corona Virus

https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1239961520349446147

Well... since there's not even theaters around to show them right now, it's hardly surprising.

[Autbot_Benz]

Delayed/Release pushed back because of Corona Virus

https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1239961520349446147

not coming out till Nov. 6, 2020

https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/disney-mulan-black-widow-release-dates-coronavirus-1203550173/

[CyberCubed]

They should have put this on Disney+. Nobody is going to go to a theater in November to see Black Widow and that’s assuming the virus is mostly under control by then and it probably won’t be.

This movie was like 3-4 years overdue anyway. Too late.

[Leo656]

Dude, enough with this already. These movies cost $200 million and up. They can't make their money back off of f*cking Streaming services, that sh*t brings in pennies compared to theatrical release.

Not everything is about YOU.

[Andrew NDB]

According to Scarlet, apparently the movie is going to be about Time's Up and the #metoo movement?

Oh, dear...

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/black-widow-reflects-times-up-women-helping-women-scarlett-johansson-exclusive-image/

[AquaParade]

Dude, enough with this already. These movies cost $200 million and up. They can't make their money back off of f*cking Streaming services, that sh*t brings in pennies compared to theatrical release.

Not everything is about YOU.

I'm pretty sure he's just going to pirate it, so he doesn't think about that stuff. Good call though.

[Autbot_Benz]

According to Scarlet, apparently the movie is going to be about Time's Up and the #metoo movement?

Oh, dear...

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/black-widow-reflects-times-up-women-helping-women-scarlett-johansson-exclusive-image/

Christ can't we just have an awesome action spy thriller in the MCU without all this extra feminist crap.

[CyberCubed]

I wish they'd give this the Mulan and Bill and Ted treatment to streaming so I can watch it already. This is obviously not going to come out in theaters this year at this point unless they go for a limited release so it's probably not going to come for another 6 months.

[Autbot_Benz]

I wish they'd give this the Mulan and Bill and Ted treatment to streaming so I can watch it already. This is obviously not going to come out in theaters this year at this point unless they go for a limited release so it's probably not going to come for another 6 months.

you basically said this already
They should have put this on Disney+. Nobody is going to go to a theater in November to see Black Widow and that’s assuming the virus is mostly under control by then and it probably won’t be.

This movie was like 3-4 years overdue anyway. Too late.

[Coola Yagami]

I hope those are just media buzzwords Scarjo is forced to say, as part of 'play along with Woke Marvel or there's the door'. I really don't see how MeToo and such will play into a spy thriller? Are they gonna say Widow's sister had to blow someone to earn her skills and now she wants to go after him years later?

[Andrew NDB]

Are they gonna say Widow's sister had to blow someone to earn her skills and now she wants to go after him years later?

I suspect something exactly like that.

[ZariusTwo]

They may move it again

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/black-widow-release-date-delay-soul-disney-plus-1234769426/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

They may move it again

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/black-widow-release-date-delay-soul-disney-plus-1234769426/

I'd be shocked if they didn't. :trolleye: At this point, I wish they'd just Disney+ it. I'd pay the $30 to see it on there; been waiting since May.

[Leo656]

Problem is, that's the ONLY $30 they'd make, and that's why they can't do it that way. :lol:

I mean, factoring in things such as, "The movie's at least 5 years too late (probably more like 10 if we're being honest)", "They already had their big Grrl Power MCU movie in Captain Marvel", "The main character is f*cking DEAD in the present-day movie timeline", and so on, this thing was something of a gamble even before the pandemic fiasco ruined the movie industry. People were already inclined not to care very much even when they "had" to pay to see it. If it comes out to streaming, you can bet your bottom $30 that most people are not gonna pay to see it. Movie's got no "heat".

I mean, yeah, some people like ScarJo, but not THAT much. You can see her nipples on the internet for free, why would anyone pay $30 for a movie where you don't see her nipples? That doesn't even make any sense.

Given that the pandemic situation isn't going to ease up anytime within this calendar year, I think they WILL eventually give up and dump it on Disney+ (and that WB will have to do the same thing with Wonder Woman once Christmas comes and goes and everything is still shut down). But they're gonna take a bath on it when they do.

It's pretty funny that in both cases, Black Widow and WW1984, they held back on releasing the movie "until the time was right" (for entirely different reasons), and now they're gonna lose a fortune because of their hubris due to things beyond their control. In both cases, people can say "Well, should've done it a long time ago, then" and in both cases that's 100% correct.

Ah well.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah they might as well just release this digitally at this point. This movie isn't a big deal anyway, it's something that should have come out 5 years ago not after Endgame when the character is dead.

Disney missed the boat here. A Black Widow movie back in 2014-2015? A big deal. In 2020? Not so much.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Black Widow is one of the most mishandled MCU properties.

And there have been a lot of them, finances not withstanding. :tlol:

#IronMan3 #neverforgiveneverforget

Also, Captain Marvel was a boring, boring movie. IIRC, I quit watching and played Mass Effect the whole time after I borrowed it from RedBox. Coulda been good, but it was derivative and boring. Even Samuel L Jackson couldn't save it for me.

Also, fvck that cat scratch eye joke.

[AquaParade]

Problem is, that's the ONLY $30 they'd make, and that's why they can't do it that way. :lol:

I mean, factoring in things such as, "The movie's at least 5 years too late (probably more like 10 if we're being honest)", "They already had their big Grrl Power MCU movie in Captain Marvel", "The main character is f*cking DEAD in the present-day movie timeline", and so on, this thing was something of a gamble even before the pandemic fiasco ruined the movie industry. People were already inclined not to care very much even when they "had" to pay to see it. If it comes out to streaming, you can bet your bottom $30 that most people are not gonna pay to see it. Movie's got no "heat".

I mean, yeah, some people like ScarJo, but not THAT much. You can see her nipples on the internet for free, why would anyone pay $30 for a movie where you don't see her nipples? That doesn't even make any sense.

Given that the pandemic situation isn't going to ease up anytime within this calendar year, I think they WILL eventually give up and dump it on Disney+ (and that WB will have to do the same thing with Wonder Woman once Christmas comes and goes and everything is still shut down). But they're gonna take a bath on it when they do.

It's pretty funny that in both cases, Black Widow and WW1984, they held back on releasing the movie "until the time was right" (for entirely different reasons), and now they're gonna lose a fortune because of their hubris due to things beyond their control. In both cases, people can say "Well, should've done it a long time ago, then" and in both cases that's 100% correct.

Ah well.

Lol at the nipple comment.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. If I were playing devil's advocate I'd say that maybe they'd make an exceptional chunk of change, relatively speaking, based on the strength of the MCU fanbase and their hunger for new content, seeing as this is the longest gap between movies in franchise history.
But yeah, they're gonna take a bath releasing it on Disney+ either way. Itll be a desperate move that they make if things become extremely dire and they need quick money. Fans better hope it doesn't release on Disney+, although I can't deny that I'd welcome it. I'd gladly pay the $30 tonight.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Lol at the nipple comment.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. If I were playing devil's advocate I'd say that maybe they'd make an exceptional chunk of change, relatively speaking, based on the strength of the MCU fanbase and their hunger for new content, seeing as this is the longest gap between movies in franchise history.
But yeah, they're gonna take a bath releasing it on Disney+ either way. Itll be a desperate move that they make if things become extremely dire and they need quick money. Fans better hope it doesn't release on Disney+, although I can't deny that I'd welcome it. I'd gladly pay the $30 tonight.

That's $60 between the two of us. :tlol:

And I, too, had to laugh at Leo's nipples remark... :tlol: At least she's not like Leo's brother!

[Leo656]

That's $60 between the two of us. :tlol:

And I, too, had to laugh at Leo's nipples remark... :tlol: At least she's not like Leo's brother!

Apparently Cheetara is, if the first episode of Thundercats is to be believed. :ohwell: Would Still Smash, though. :tgrin:

And it was my late brother-in-law, brother. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Apparently Cheetara is, if the first episode of Thundercats is to be believed. :ohwell: Would Still Smash, though. :tgrin:

And it was my late brother-in-law, brother. :lol:

Sorry, couldn't remember the specifics. But the important part of the story? That $hit I ain't ever forgetting. :tlol:

[Leo656]

He was often very cruel to my sister. He didn't deserve nipples! :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

He was often very cruel to my sister. He didn't deserve nipples! :lol:

Nipple-lacking bastard!

[Autbot_Benz]

BLACK WIDOW Star Florence Pugh Says The Movie Is "About The Abuse Of Women"

“This film is about the abuse of women. It’s about how they get involuntary hysterectomies by the age of eight. It’s about girls who are stolen from around the world. It’s so painful, and it’s so important."

“Part of the excitement for me is that women and girls from around the world are going to see this, and are going to see an abuse story that really was challenged by its own victims. For a Marvel film to be reaching all of those levels, it is so exciting. The best thing about that is, it’s not layered with this colour of grey. You’ll see these women strive and be strong, and they’re assassins – and yet they still need to discuss how they were abused. It’s an incredibly powerful piece.”

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_widow/black-widow-star-florence-pugh-says-the-movie-is-about-the-abuse-of-women-a178433#gs.fs44oh

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :roll:

[Leo656]

That sounds exactly like what people want to watch when they sit down to watch a comic book movie starring a supermodel. :lol:

I can't wait for the Hulk solo movie that's all about the horrors of infant circumcision. Banner's got a secret rage monster inside of him because his parents had his willy snipped without asking him for informed consent, and now he's taking it out on the world.

.....I f*cking hate Disney.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

BLACK WIDOW Star Florence Pugh Says The Movie Is "About The Abuse Of Women"

“This film is about the abuse of women. It’s about how they get involuntary hysterectomies by the age of eight. It’s about girls who are stolen from around the world. It’s so painful, and it’s so important."

“Part of the excitement for me is that women and girls from around the world are going to see this, and are going to see an abuse story that really was challenged by its own victims. For a Marvel film to be reaching all of those levels, it is so exciting. The best thing about that is, it’s not layered with this colour of grey. You’ll see these women strive and be strong, and they’re assassins – and yet they still need to discuss how they were abused. It’s an incredibly powerful piece.”

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_widow/black-widow-star-florence-pugh-says-the-movie-is-about-the-abuse-of-women-a178433#gs.fs44oh

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :roll:

The thing is, I could be absolutely fine with this. Execution matters. Will it be handled hamfistedly, or subtly?

My money is on the former, but just saying "oh yeah, this is all about women being abused and growing past it" doesn't make it an automatic fail for me.

But given how incredibly terrible a lot of writing has been lately, yeah, I get why a lot of you are noping out already.

[Leo656]

This project is coming from the same exact people who threw shade at WB and said MoS and BvS were "the wrong kind of super-hero movie" because "nobody wants Real-Life Issues mixed in with their happy jolly capesh*t escapism."

We go from "Ruminations on the true nature of Heroism are Too Dark for a comic book movie", to "Let's all sit and talk about little girls getting their reproductive organs forcibly removed. This will be the backdrop for our movie about a supermodel spy chick in a form-fitting latex catsuit."

Mixed signals out the ass. That's my issue.

[oldmanwinters]

That sounds exactly like what people want to watch when they sit down to watch a comic book movie starring a supermodel. :lol:

I can't wait for the Hulk solo movie that's all about the horrors of infant circumcision. Banner's got a secret rage monster inside of him because his parents had his willy snipped without asking him for informed consent, and now he's taking it out on the world.

.....I f*cking hate Disney.

Well, to be fair, the 2003 HULK flick was all about unresolved daddy issues. :tlol:

[Leo656]

As is the "Hulk" persona in general, but to my recollection that had more to do with watching his Dad kill his Mom and less to do with whether or not he'd been snipped. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As is the "Hulk" persona in general, but to my recollection that had more to do with watching his Dad kill his Mom and less to do with whether or not he'd been snipped. :lol:

You're really making me curious to try the 2003 Hulk movie... I liked the 2008 MCU flick, but it's just been a downward spiral of comedy since then.

This project is coming from the same exact people who threw shade at WB and said MoS and BvS were "the wrong kind of super-hero movie" because "nobody wants Real-Life Issues mixed in with their happy jolly capesh*t escapism."

We go from "Ruminations on the true nature of Heroism are Too Dark for a comic book movie", to "Let's all sit and talk about little girls getting their reproductive organs forcibly removed. This will be the backdrop for our movie about a supermodel spy chick in a form-fitting latex catsuit."

Mixed signals out the ass. That's my issue.

That's a good damn point. But IIRC, the vast majority of those complaints came from reviewers and fans and casuals, not people actually involved in the MCU. Or am I not remembering correctly? It's been awhile since those criticisms were everywhere...

[Leo656]

You're really making me curious to try the 2003 Hulk movie... I liked the 2008 MCU flick, but it's just been a downward spiral of comedy since then.



That's a good damn point. But IIRC, the vast majority of those complaints came from reviewers and fans and casuals, not people actually involved in the MCU. Or am I not remembering correctly? It's been awhile since those criticisms were everywhere...

Ehhh, there was some shade thrown but I can't recall anything significant off the top of my head. I mostly remember one interview with someone high-up at Disney/Marvel saying that DC needed to figure out that people want Escapism and not Realism in their super-hero fiction but I can't recall the guy's name.

And then there was the guy who plays Falcon telling a film journalist who was interviewing him that they had no business ever reviewing or talking about movies ever again because the guy really liked BvS, but he's just an actor and not really anyone important.

I'unno, sorry; I read a lot of stuff and thus it all blends together in my head. :trazz:
---------

The "Hulk" movie is a fascinating piece of work. It's definitely not a super-hero movie in any respect, more of a psychological thriller with elements of body horror, although it gets a bit more conventional towards the third act. But what it tries to do, it does very well; it's just entirely unconventional. But I really admire a lot of the choices they made and I think Eric Bana was still the best guy to ever play the role of Banner, easily.

The problem is, the CGI is absolutely TERRIBLE on the Hulk. The good news is, you barely see him at all in the first half, but towards the end where he's running around in the desert in broad daylight, it sticks out like a sore thumb and becomes very distracting. The SFX crew who worked on the movie have since put 100% of the heat on Ang Lee, claiming that they'd repeatedly work after-hours trying to fix the CGI only for him to come in the next day and demand they switch it back to the NERF-green nonsense we ended up with. For some reason, he specifically wanted it to look the way it does. Unfortunately, it ruined the movie for a ton of people.

BUT, if you can ignore that, and go into it knowing that the first half is very, very slow on action and that it is NOT a super-hero movie or even much of an action movie, it's honestly quite good. You just have to take it on its own terms. A lot of people went into it wanting to see "Shrek Goes Berserk" and those people didn't get what they wanted. But it's a good movie.

Eric Bana, Sam Elliot, Jennifer Connelly, Nick Nolte... you really can't go wrong. For most people, it all comes down to whether or not they can ignore the bad CGI. But given that it's an "old" movie, now, I feel like that flaw should be easier to ignore.

It's definitely worth watching at least once. I like "Incredible" just fine but "Hulk" is still easily the best movie to utilize the character. It goes to places that you really need to go to with the character which unfortunately won't ever be done again.

It's very "talky" for a Hulk movie. That's really as negative as I can be. It's got a lot of talking and the CGI is bad. I still enjoy it.

[AquaParade]

Black Widow sounds good to me. If they execute adult subject matter like that well, I'll be more excited for the future of the MCU.

[ZariusTwo]

Now delayed to May 2021

https://thedirect.com/article/black-widow-eternals-shang-chi-marvel-movies-officially-delayed-through-2021

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Now delayed to May 2021

https://thedirect.com/article/black-widow-eternals-shang-chi-marvel-movies-officially-delayed-through-2021

Sigh. There it goes...

[neatoman]

Now delayed to May 2021

https://thedirect.com/article/black-widow-eternals-shang-chi-marvel-movies-officially-delayed-through-2021

Is Rum and Coke made with Coke Zero any good? I need to drown my sorrows but I don't like mostly high alcoholic drinks and I try to avoid sugar, so I normally drink lots of Coke Zero.

[CyberCubed]

I don't know why they don't just dump this online, most people aren't exactly hyped for Black Widow in mid-2021.

[Sumac]

At this rate this movie would become Black Rusty Spider.

[ZariusTwo]

Is Rum and Coke made with Coke Zero any good? I need to drown my sorrows but I don't like mostly high alcoholic drinks and I try to avoid sugar, so I normally drink lots of Coke Zero.

Do they sell Scheps where you are? You can mix that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't know why they don't just dump this online, most people aren't exactly hyped for Black Widow in mid-2021.

I'd willing to bet the thinking is this:

If they (Marvel) string people along with reschedules, they have a better chance of keeping overall audience interest. And by the time Black Widow and the Eternals come out, the rest of the movies keep going at normal production schedule.

But if they dump everything online now, instead of waiting for movies to come out in theaters, we the audience are left waiting for them to even work on movies. And maybe overall audience interest in the MCU wanes more significantly.

Or maybe it's as simple as they want theater money, not streaming money.

[Andrew NDB]

Now delayed to May 2021

https://thedirect.com/article/black-widow-eternals-shang-chi-marvel-movies-officially-delayed-through-2021

Absolutely ridiculous. A real punch in the face to theaters. If "May 2021" is when theaters are supposed to be expected to fully reopen then they won't exist to reopen. There's no way they can stay closed for more than a year without assistance or anything else.

This is more "waiting for the vaccine!" nonsense that should never have been banked on.

[Leo656]

I agree. I don't care about this movie but the situation is pretty ridiculous.

Regarding theaters and stuff staying closed until May, I figure they reason (as do I) that with all the stuff going on, the second everyone starts coughing for the usual Seasonal reasons everyone will go full-blown Panic and assume they're dying. Temperatures stabilize and people stop coughing in mid-late Spring. I've been saying since June that we can expect no relief from this situation until Spring 2021 at the earliest because cold/flu season is gonna throw everybody for a loop even if people are only getting "regular" sick. Thus, lots of businesses are going to opt for a "better safe than sorry" approach and just try and wait it out until Spring. Expect lots of things that have since cautiously re-opened to once again shut down again in late-Fall, as well, possibly for good this time. It's unavoidable.

I agree, it's all too much. And it's obvious that Disney spent way too much on the project to take such a major bath as releasing it to streaming "for free" would be. But at some point they may no longer have any choice; it's sounding more and more like there really won't be any theaters to come back to if the Powers-That-Be keep this up.

Let's hope once the election is over with things will start moving in the right direction, finally. If it weren't an election year you can bet this entire ordeal would have played out much, much differently.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Now delayed to May 2021

https://thedirect.com/article/black-widow-eternals-shang-chi-marvel-movies-officially-delayed-through-2021

Oh wow, I didn't think it'd be pushed back that far. I expected another delay but damn.

[AquaParade]

It's frustrating and it's hard to see. I'm not mad at them, it's a difficult situation.

On the bright side, I'm glad the MCU movies in production are getting extra coats of paint. They have never had time on their side like this before.

[Coola Yagami]

Also hope it gives them time to re-think their weird 'metoo/timesup' gimmick and just market it as an awesome movie with ScarJo kicking ass. It doesn't need to be an 'important' movie. You had that with Captain Marvel, let Black Widow have her movie without the wokeness.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Let's hope once the election is over with things will start moving in the right direction, finally. If it weren't an election year you can bet this entire ordeal would have played out much, much differently.

That's for damn sure.

[Andrew NDB]

I agree, it's all too much. And it's obvious that Disney spent way too much on the project to take such a major bath as releasing it to streaming "for free" would be. But at some point they may no longer have any choice; it's sounding more and more like there really won't be any theaters to come back to if the Powers-That-Be keep this up.

There really can't be. Can you imagine owning a theater and being forced to sit there with it closed for over a year? I mean, you can open it but it's just... Tenet and old movies. That's not survivable.

Will everyone go to the theaters like before? No, a lot of people are fearful, but that's fine. Will movies make the same money in theaters as before? No, probably not for a while. But the people wanting to go to them should be given movies to watch. After a theatrical run they can do whatever they want, streaming/on demand/etc..

[Coola Yagami]

There really can't be. Can you imagine owning a theater and being forced to sit there with it closed for over a year? I mean, you can open it but it's just... Tenet and old movies. That's not survivable.

Will everyone go to the theaters like before? No, a lot of people are fearful, but that's fine. Will movies make the same money in theaters as before? No, probably not for a while. But the people wanting to go to them should be given movies to watch. After a theatrical run they can do whatever they want, streaming/on demand/etc..

I'm literally dying to go back to the movie theater once this is all over. I think whatever movie will be the first to be shown once everyone feels safe enough to go to the theater will make bank just by virtue.

[Leo656]

I kinda feel like WB is trying to get Wonder Woman 1984 into that spot in order to cover for the story being complete ass.

Like, it'll have a really dumb plot, BUT Gal is charming, the movie will be visually stunning, and it'll be the first "real" movie in theaters in ages, so by default it'll be a huge winner for them. Like it really sounds awful from every respect EXCEPT visuals - the one trailer is enough to tell you that they're pretty much expecting the visuals to carry the whole thing - but if there's absolutely no competition AND people get a chance to stretch their legs after being cooped up all year, nobody will care that the story is terrible and they'll all rave about it. Kinda feel strongly like that's what they're doing with that project, thus why they keep only pushing it back "a little while" in hope that they can jump the gun on This Movie and every other "blockbuster" that was supposed to come out by now.

Like, last I heard they wanted WW'84 out for Christmas, but given the news on Black Widow and everything else lately getting pushed back to next year, seems like wishful thinking at best. I do think WW'84 will come out first though, somehow; it's been "done" for an entire year and they originally just wanted to polish the CGI before all this nonsense happened. So even if it doesn't come out by Christmas I think that will end up being the first "must-see" movie that will be positioned as a way to try and entice people back to theaters.

[Coola Yagami]

I kinda feel like WB is trying to get Wonder Woman 1984 into that spot in order to cover for the story being complete ass.

Like, it'll have a really dumb plot, BUT Gal is charming, the movie will be visually stunning, and it'll be the first "real" movie in theaters in ages, so by default it'll be a huge winner for them. Like it really sounds awful from every respect EXCEPT visuals - the one trailer is enough to tell you that they're pretty much expecting the visuals to carry the whole thing - but if there's absolutely no competition AND people get a chance to stretch their legs after being cooped up all year, nobody will care that the story is terrible and they'll all rave about it. Kinda feel strongly like that's what they're doing with that project, thus why they keep only pushing it back "a little while" in hope that they can jump the gun on This Movie and every other "blockbuster" that was supposed to come out by now.

Like, last I heard they wanted WW'84 out for Christmas, but given the news on Black Widow and everything else lately getting pushed back to next year, seems like wishful thinking at best. I do think WW'84 will come out first though, somehow; it's been "done" for an entire year and they originally just wanted to polish the CGI before all this nonsense happened. So even if it doesn't come out by Christmas I think that will end up being the first "must-see" movie that will be positioned as a way to try and entice people back to theaters.

I'm all for it just for the fight scenes with Cheetah alone. It's about time one of her most iconic villains makes a mainstream appearance. It would be like seeing Superman FINALLY fight Metallo or Braniac on the big screen.

[Andrew NDB]

You already know how it's going to shakeout. WW becomes friends with Cheetah lady, Cheetah lady feels betrayed by WW in some way so fights her... then at the end they team up to tag-team fight Max Lord, who was "using" both of them. Max Lord dies spectacularly, as if burning an effigy of Trump.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm all for it just for the fight scenes with Cheetah alone. It's about time one of her most iconic villains makes a mainstream appearance. It would be like seeing Superman FINALLY fight Metallo or Braniac on the big screen.

$hit, man, we do really need to see that.

I kinda feel like WB is trying to get Wonder Woman 1984 into that spot in order to cover for the story being complete ass.

Like, it'll have a really dumb plot, BUT Gal is charming, the movie will be visually stunning, and it'll be the first "real" movie in theaters in ages, so by default it'll be a huge winner for them. Like it really sounds awful from every respect EXCEPT visuals - the one trailer is enough to tell you that they're pretty much expecting the visuals to carry the whole thing - but if there's absolutely no competition AND people get a chance to stretch their legs after being cooped up all year, nobody will care that the story is terrible and they'll all rave about it. Kinda feel strongly like that's what they're doing with that project, thus why they keep only pushing it back "a little while" in hope that they can jump the gun on This Movie and every other "blockbuster" that was supposed to come out by now.

Yeah, I tend to agree. Visuals carry a lot of movies... just ask Michael Bay, the fvcker. :tlol:

But Gal is a great Wonder Woman; she'll carry a lesser sequel, and it'll win all the praise and adoration. $hit, even a grumpy ass like me will mostly enjoy it.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I tend to agree. Visuals carry a lot of movies... just ask Michael Bay, the fvcker. :tlol:

But Gal is a great Wonder Woman; she'll carry a lesser sequel, and it'll win all the praise and adoration. $hit, even a grumpy ass like me will mostly enjoy it.

It promises to be visually amazing yet insipid plot-wise. But the Former will trump the Latter.

She's swinging around on lightning bolts in the trailer. They've already made a billion on that alone. Assuming they're allowed to release the movie in theaters, that is.

Gal is perfectly fine, but I maintain that with the costume, the music, and "protected booking" the character has had since BvS, just about any brunette could have pulled it off as good or better. Most of the work is in the presentation, after all. Again, I have nothing against her, I just don't think she, herself, is really as divine as people have come to insist.

[Coola Yagami]

You already know how it's going to shakeout. WW becomes friends with Cheetah lady, Cheetah lady feels betrayed by WW in some way so fights her... then at the end they team up to tag-team fight Max Lord, who was "using" both of them. Max Lord dies spectacularly, as if burning an effigy of Trump.

Naw dude, cheetah will either die tragically or end up shaking her fist in revenge.

We need these superhero movies to leave some villains alive for team ups and stuff.

[Shark_Blade]

Cheetah retires and joins the Thundercats as Cheetara. Calling it now.

[Leo656]

Naw dude, cheetah will either die tragically or end up shaking her fist in revenge.

We need these superhero movies to leave some villains alive for team ups and stuff.

Except they never do. Ever since Burton went and killed the Joker in '89, that's become the standard operating procedure.

I forget who it was, but someone of prominence who's worked on comic book movies once pointed out how incredibly hard it is to write an ending for a super-hero movie, specifically one where the bad guy does NOT die. As they explained it, the "rules" are different for films than for comics and cartoons, and audiences have different expectations. People who are watching a movie expect/demand more of a "complete" story with actual closure rather than a loose thread to foreshadow another movie to come, and feel cheated and annoyed when they're denied that closure. It leaves them feeling, to some degree, like the bad guy "got away with it" and weren't punished properly. This person pointed out how even in Disney films, the go-to for saccharine-laced "family" entertainment, your three-year old is still going to watch the bad guy violently perish at the end 99% of the time, because "Those Are The Rules Of How Movies Work."

It all comes down to how the "match psychology" is entirely different for films versus TV shows and other entertainment. I'm not explaining it in full, and I really wish I could remember where I read this and who said it, but it all immediately made sense to me.

I agree and maintain that killing off the villain so often in their first outing is a mistake, but by the same token it makes perfect sense. Generally speaking, the audience for a movie demands that the villain be punished thoroughly and that there be no loose ends. It's annoying, but it does make sense.

[AquaParade]

Just goes to show you can't expect perfect 100% adaptions out of these things. What works in a comic doesn't always work in a movie.

[Leo656]

They really do cheat everyone by killing off the villains so willy-nilly, though, including themselves. Even understanding why they do it, I can only think about how much money they're leaving on the table.

I swear I even read Burton once admit that killing Joker was a mistake, once he realized how much money he or another director could have made with a proper sequel later down the road. Which is so ironic and darkly funny upon realizing that almost 20 years later, they left Ledger's Joker alive on purpose specifically to "correct" that mistake so they could come back and use him later... and then he goes and drops dead in real life, thus completely undoing what they were trying to accomplish by leaving him alive at the end of "The Dark Knight". :lol:

Kind of a "Let's kill off Luke, but spare Leia" kind of thing. "Oops". You just can't make this stuff up!

[Andrew NDB]

I remember reading that Nicholson was "thinking about" reprising his role as the Joker in "Batman Triumphant" for Schumacher. Supposedly it was going to feature King Tut and Scarecrow, with Joker returning in fear visions.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I remember reading that Nicholson was "thinking about" reprising his role as the Joker in "Batman Triumphant" for Schumacher. Supposedly it was going to feature King Tut and Scarecrow, with Joker returning in fear visions.

I've NEVER heard the King Tut part of that rumor before. I always heard it was Harley Quinn and Scarecrow, with Joker fear-gas hallucinations.

[Andrew NDB]

I've NEVER heard the King Tut part of that rumor before. I always heard it was Harley Quinn and Scarecrow, with Joker fear-gas hallucinations.

Yeah, Harley was in there, too. My personal theory was that it'd be Jack Napier's girlfriend from the first movie that died off-screen.

[AquaParade]

They really do cheat everyone by killing off the villains so willy-nilly, though, including themselves. Even understanding why they do it, I can only think about how much money they're leaving on the table.

I swear I even read Burton once admit that killing Joker was a mistake, once he realized how much money he or another director could have made with a proper sequel later down the road. Which is so ironic and darkly funny upon realizing that almost 20 years later, they left Ledger's Joker alive on purpose specifically to "correct" that mistake so they could come back and use him later... and then he goes and drops dead in real life, thus completely undoing what they were trying to accomplish by leaving him alive at the end of "The Dark Knight". :lol:

Kind of a "Let's kill off Luke, but spare Leia" kind of thing. "Oops". You just can't make this stuff up!

Yeah, I feel like you can give finality to a such a story without killing someone. There is much you can do if you're clever enough.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, the thing is that until the MCU came around, the expectation was always that you could really only expect to see 3 movies of a thing, if you're lucky. Like, why not kill off the Green Goblin in Spider-Man 1 if you're only going to get to Spider-Man 3?

[Leo656]

The "Batman Triumphant" deal was supposed to be Harley was Nicholson Joker's secret daughter out for revenge. They were hoping for Courtney Love.

After watching "Falling Down", I take back much of the bad things I've said about Schumacher over the years, and relent that he was able to make good, non-campy movies. But we're still very, very lucky that he never got to make his third Batman movie. Nothing I've read suggests it would have been anything less than terrible, Nicholson cameo or no.

[Andrew NDB]

After watching "Falling Down"

And not "Lost Boys"? He's (well, was) fully capable of making a good movie when he wants to.

[Leo656]

I knew someone would ask that. :lol: My wife loves that one so I've seen it a bunch. And I admit, it's good, but I'd argue that it's still kinda campy, just a little bit.

Maybe I should have instead said, "Watching 'Falling Down' made me realize that Joel Schumacher was capable of making good movies that weren't also absolutely dripping with homo-erotic subtext."

Kiefer Sutherland was totally trying to seduce Michael or whatever his name was into his gay sex cult and it wasn't even subtle. Seriously, I'm not trying to slam the movie or anything, I like it and it's good. It's just that upon seeing it for the first time, my initial reaction was "This is the gayest movie I've ever seen where nothing gay actually happens in it." And then I saw Schumacher was the director and was like "Oh, yeah, okay that makes sense."

I've only seen a few of his films but I admit I had doubts about his ability to direct a film that was both good AND not drowning in subtext, but "Falling Down" was plain and simple a very good movie where all the metaphors and subtext were simply sociopolitical. So that was refreshing.

But yeah, I like "Lost Boys". It's just, like, SUPER-gay. Which is fine. I was just more impressed by "Falling Down", is all.

C'mon, we all wanna be "D-FENS" now and again. :trazz: That's relateable.

[Coola Yagami]

I guess in a way, some of the comic book bad guys are 'too powerful' to be dealt with by normal means. Like most of them can escape from jail the following day and they would have zero reason to just 'wait' until the next movie to go after the hero, they will go after them NOW, so I guess I kinda get it when they feel the need to kill them off, since most movies of any sort end with the bad guy dying.

IDK, I kinda wish they would at least die in ways where you never see the body so that they CAN come back in sequels.

Now that I think about it... Magneto has been pretty lucky to survive the movie franchise.

[Sumac]

I can understand why moviemakers don't want to keep villains alive, but it certainly hurts their long term plans.

[CyberCubed]

For god sakes put this on Disney+ already.

People barely cared about this movie in 2020, you think anyone is going to care much differently in 2021?

[IMJ]

I can understand why moviemakers don't want to keep villains alive, but it certainly hurts their long term plans.

I have this sort of secret hope that Iron Man shows up in this in this one to fight an as of yet unannounced Titanium Man. The likelihood of this is next to zero, but hey - I said the same about Luke Skywalker in the Mandalorian and look how that went.... :lol: :D

I might've been more jazzed about this flick a few years back, but now with Endgame in place basically my excitement is fairly exhausted - especially with the upcoming slate of stuff. meh. M She U.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Damn, this movie is never gonna release. :tlol: And I really want to see it!

[ZariusTwo]

Roger Corman's Fantastic Four will come out before this does.

[TigerClaw]

I just found out today that Milla Jovovich's daughter is playing a young Black Widow in the movie.

[Leo656]

Roger Corman's Fantastic Four will come out before this does.

We can hope! :lol:

I remember one time for an April Fool's joke, Wizard Magazine published a fake preview for a massive, multi-disc box set of Corman's "Fantastic 4". That was great. :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

For god sakes put this on Disney+ already.

People barely cared about this movie in 2020, you think anyone is going to care much differently in 2021?


They will, just give it a bit. In fact, it is already slated to go up, but not "right now". They want to try to get as much cinema money as they can first. Mulan just went up on the service a couple of days ago for free, so I watched it. I imagine a lot of people will want to wait for this one to do the same, which might hurt it's bottom line.

[IMJ]

They are probably waiting to see how badly WW 84's losses are before throwing it to the streaming wolves.

[CyberCubed]

I doubt anyone will flock to theaters mid-2021 for this. The interest was already low in 2020, this movie feels like it came out 5 years late in general, like it should have come out back around 2014-2015.

[Coola Yagami]

I doubt anyone will flock to theaters mid-2021 for this. The interest was already low in 2020, this movie feels like it came out 5 years late in general, like it should have come out back around 2014-2015.

Speak for yourself. I'm taking my whole nerd crew out to see this one.

[superstaff]

Speak for yourself. I'm taking my whole nerd crew out to see this one.

Okay, is your 'nerd crew' as hyped for this as they were for other major superhero movies?

I have to agree with Cyber. I feel like this movie, if it needed to exist at all, should have come out in the 2013-2015 range. I remember Black Widow being a highly demanded movie back in 2012, but that was back when the MCU was still in its infancy. At this point, it feels pretty bland compared to what we've gotten since then. Like, will this actually be a better film than Winter Soldier, which this seems to be something similar?

[drgon78]

I agree, this movie came out 5 years loo late. After Endgame I have lost all interest in the MCU.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, besides Spider-man movies and the eventual reboot of X-men, I'm not even that interested in the future of the MCU anymore.

I'm sure Thor 4 and Guardians 3 will be good at least, but I can't bring myself to care about anything else. Black Panther 2 would have been good before Chadwicks death so now I don't really care about it.

[Coola Yagami]

Okay, is your 'nerd crew' as hyped for this as they were for other major superhero movies?

I

Some more than others but it's something we'd all agree to see and will see as a group.

[Autbot_Benz]

https://deadline.com/2021/02/black-widow-theatrical-release-disney-soul-mulan-1234692614/

However, “we’ll be watching to see the reopening of theaters and consumer sentiment in terms of going back to theater” said Chapek today on the studio’s FYQ1 earnings call. Black Widow is currently scheduled to kick off summer on May 7. Should the pandemic quell by then, and New York City and Los Angeles reopen movie theaters, the Scarlett Johansson and Florence Pugh feature will be the first tentpole to re-ignite exhibition. Fingers crossed.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://deadline.com/2021/02/black-widow-theatrical-release-disney-soul-mulan-1234692614/

Still not out, huh?

Wake me up in 2025 or whenever...

[CyberCubed]

It's literally mind boggling this isn't out yet. It's a Black Widow movie, which even back in 2020...was 5 years late. Now in 2021+ people care even less.

This really should have been put on Disney+ by now.

[Coola Yagami]

Speak for yourself Cubed. I'm grabbing up the remaining posse and seeing this Day One.

[Leo656]

That's a hell of a long lead-in for, "The Continuing Adventures of The World's Second-Least Interesting Avenger (Who By The Way, Is Dead)." :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

That's a hell of a long lead-in for, "The Continuing Adventures of The World's Second-Least Interesting Avenger (Who By The Way, Is Dead)." :lol:

That also has an amazing ass. You forgot the best part Leo.

[Leo656]

She's okay.

[Autbot_Benz]

https://twitter.com/MarvelStudios/status/1374429041877389320
Marvel Studios
@MarvelStudios
Black Widow in theaters July 9 and on
@DisneyPlus
with Premier Access. Additional fees required.

[ZariusTwo]

GVXCr6upWUo

[AquaParade]

I'll gladly take it at home. It's weird how fast this is all happening. All it took was a little nudge from the pandemic and we are in full blown in topsy-turvy land when it comes to the delivery of big blockbuster films. I always wished this day would come, but it's sort of sad at the same time.

One one hand, the theater experience can be pretty great when you get a good audio and visual set up, but on the other, it's comfortable as hell to be at home. I suppose, for me, the tie-breaker comes down to the fact that I've already invested in a pretty good set up at home. It really helps makes it feel like a worthy investment, when I'm getting entertainment like this straight to my system at home.

[sdp]

https://media.tenor.com/images/e64b8dee26242feea4dc200f46f73a59/tenor.gif

[CyberCubed]

Thank god. They should have just put it up last year. It's a Black Widow movie of all things, even back in 2020 it was already "5 years too late" to get excited about.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Thank god. They should have just put it up last year. It's a Black Widow movie of all things, even back in 2020 it was already "5 years too late" to get excited about.

I mean, I always hate to agree with you... but you're not wrong. :tlol:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Some theaters in my area have finally opened up last week. Not sure they needed to delay this movie by two months.

[ranger_scout]

I'm still going to see the film in theaters. IMO, big-budget movies like Black Widow deserve to be seen on the big screen. That is why I was so thankful to my parents for allowing me to rent a theater as a Christmas present to see Wonder Woman 1984. That was weeks before I contracted my mild case of Covid-19. I already received my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last week and I am getting my second one next month. So, I am already more than good to go see it at the cinema.

[ZariusTwo]

1oj_f-p0Fbs

[CyberCubed]

Glad to get this movie finally over with. Day 1 when it hits online streaming.

[ranger_scout]

I thought there was another thread for this movie that was more active. Here is the final trailer just in case no one had already seen it.

nAowcCbWhqg

Also, as I mentioned in another thread if you see the film in IMAX, there will be expanded ratio.

https://deadline.com/2021/06/marvel-studios-black-widow-imax-aspect-ratio-1234770755/

[ranger_scout]

Advanced tickets are now are sale. Here is a clip from the movie.

HYDQ-sqWVtE

[AquaParade]

"Quick, let's undo these bolts and swing from this giant cylinder!"

[ZariusTwo]

Reviews are in

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/black-widow-3/

https://variety.com/2021/film/reviews/black-widow-review-scarlett-johansson-florence-pugh-1235007198/

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a36802235/black-widow-review-disney-plus/

Digitalspy are usually very sweet to the MCU, but even they can't hide their disappointment


This is a deeply dark and prescient character history; forced sterilisation of women (particularly immigrant, refugee and indigenous women) continues to this day. A true Black Widow story would have to reckon with topics so dark and disturbing, there's no way they would fit into the family-friendly mould Marvel uses.

Instead, they're turned into punchlines. On the one hand, there's something deeply cathartic about deadpan menstruation and hysterectomy jokes. On the other hand, it feels too flippantly handled to really matter who the Black Widows become.

[sdp]

This is the Black Widow that should've gotten a solo movie in early Phase 2, back when Scarlett was young, hot and she could be sexy.
https://data.whicdn.com/images/313208142/original.gif
Black Widow is now an old, unattractive and can't even pretend to be hot.

The MCU and Marvel died the day Disney bought them

[AquaParade]

The MCU and Marvel died the day Disney bought them

Yeah, nothing says "dead" like the top grossing film of all time.

[CyberCubed]

Thank god this is coming out on streaming on Disney+ the same day as theaters, that way other parties can get an HD stream up of it quick. Day 1....at 1.5x speed.

[IMJ]

Black Widow is now an old, unattractive and can't even pretend to be hot.


:lol:

There you go again with that weird "old" thing you do......

Yeah, nothing says "dead" like the top grossing film of all time.

I was looking forward to this one, but I'm not gonna lie - the minute I saw a headline about Scarlett going on about Black Widow being "sexualized" in Iron Man 2, my financial support for the solo flick went out the window immediately.

[Coola Yagami]

Whatever, me and my buds are still planning to go see it opening weekend.

[Coola Yagami]

This is the Black Widow that should've gotten a solo movie in early Phase 2, back when Scarlett was young, hot and she could be sexy.
https://data.whicdn.com/images/313208142/original.gif
Black Widow is now an old, unattractive and can't even pretend to be hot.

The MCU and Marvel died the day Disney bought them

I won't lie and say she wasn't at her hottest during Iron Man 2/Avengers 1 era, but I'd still **** 36 year old Scarjo all day everyday, til my body gives out. They'll bury me with a smile on my face and a black widow mark on my chest. Scarjo can walk off proudly knowing she got another notch on her belt.

[IMJ]

I won't lie and say she wasn't at her hottest during Iron Man 2/Avengers 1 era, but I'd still **** 36 year old Scarjo all day everyday, til my body gives out. They'll bury me with a smile on my face and a black widow mark on my chest. Scarjo can walk off proudly knowing she got another notch on her belt.

I think the best she's ever looked on film was either in the Prestige or in Winter Soldier......

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah, nothing says "dead" like the top grossing film of all time.

Big box office doesn't mean a movie is any good, just means a fool and their money are soon parted

Most of the MCU is terrible and they get progressively worse each year, people just won't admit it.

[AquaParade]

Big box office doesn't mean a movie is any good, just means a fool and their money are soon parted

Most of the MCU is terrible and they get progressively worse each year, people just won't admit it.

Sure, but it's actually closer to meaning it's "good" than meaning it's "dead."

The MCU has shortcomings, and I certainly don't love it all, but calling it "dead" is good for a laugh, no matter what perspective you're coming from.

As for MCU being "terrible", I disagree. The storytelling can be sterile at times, but what they're achieving is quite impressive and worthy of accolades. And they're improving as they go. A lot of the writing in WandaVision was quite touching.

[CyberCubed]

I won't lie and say she wasn't at her hottest during Iron Man 2/Avengers 1 era, but I'd still **** 36 year old Scarjo all day everyday, til my body gives out. They'll bury me with a smile on my face and a black widow mark on my chest. Scarjo can walk off proudly knowing she got another notch on her belt.

In Hollywood, anyone over 25, maybe 30 if you're pushing it, is "over the hill."

[sdp]

Well it's not meant to be taken literal, obviously Marvel is now bigger than even DC with Disney's backing, only Batman and Superman can claim to be as big as Marvel is. But the "sovl" of Marvel died when Disney started getting involved.

Everything that comes out feels soulless and approved by a committee. It's a shame since before Disney bought Marvel they had finally found the way to make things the right way, we had badass cartoons, badass movies, and boom, now everything is super sanitized, cookie cutter and formulaic. Nothing Disney releases is technically "bad", but it lacks the energy it used to have.

No one wants to see a near 40 year old woman pretend to be a spy. Even if she was still hot and in her 20s, every movie has raised the stake, who can get excited about a solo movie of a nonpowered hero in a world of galactic beings.

T
I was looking forward to this one, but I'm not gonna lie - the minute I saw a headline about Scarlett going on about Black Widow being "sexualized" in Iron Man 2, my financial support for the solo flick went out the window immediately.

let's be honest, if she hadn't been sexualized in Iron Man 2, no one would care who black widow was, well maybe that's a bit exaggerated but she wouldn't have become as popular as quick as she did. You had this badass hot double spy doing crazy acrobatics.
Sex sells, which is why twitch is full of THOTs that contribute 0 to the website, make it worse but get all the viewers. This is why SJW trend will end sooner than later, because of marketing and once the trend is over, the best way to sell something is by making it sexy.

[AquaParade]

Well it's not meant to be taken literal, obviously Marvel is now bigger than even DC with Disney's backing, only Batman and Superman can claim to be as big as Marvel is. But the "sovl" of Marvel died when Disney started getting involved.

Everything that comes out feels soulless and approved by a committee. It's a shame since before Disney bought Marvel they had finally found the way to make things the right way, we had badass cartoons, badass movies, and boom, now everything is super sanitized, cookie cutter and formulaic. Nothing Disney releases is technically "bad", but it lacks the energy it used to have.

No one wants to see a near 40 year old woman pretend to be a spy. Even if she was still hot and in her 20s, every movie has raised the stake, who can get excited about a solo movie of a nonpowered hero in a world of galactic beings.

T

let's be honest, if she hadn't been sexualized in Iron Man 2, no one would care who black widow was, well maybe that's a bit exagerated but she wouldn't have become as popular as quick as she did. You had this badass hot double spy doing crazy acrobatics.

Okay, I hear you. I guess "dead" can be taken a number of ways, but it just seemed like a flippant thing to call such a successful and thriving venture.

If you don't like the movies, you don't like the movies.

[Coola Yagami]

Well it's not meant to be taken literal, obviously Marvel is now bigger than even DC with Disney's backing, only Batman and Superman can claim to be as big as Marvel is. But the "sovl" of Marvel died when Disney started getting involved.

Everything that comes out feels soulless and approved by a committee. It's a shame since before Disney bought Marvel they had finally found the way to make things the right way, we had badass cartoons, badass movies, and boom, now everything is super sanitized, cookie cutter and formulaic. Nothing Disney releases is technically "bad", but it lacks the energy it used to have.

No one wants to see a near 40 year old woman pretend to be a spy. Even if she was still hot and in her 20s, every movie has raised the stake, who can get excited about a solo movie of a nonpowered hero in a world of galactic beings.

T

let's be honest, if she hadn't been sexualized in Iron Man 2, no one would care who black widow was, well maybe that's a bit exaggerated but she wouldn't have become as popular as quick as she did. You had this badass hot double spy doing crazy acrobatics.
Sex sells, which is why twitch is full of THOTs that contribute 0 to the website, make it worse but get all the viewers. This is why SJW trend will end sooner than later, because of marketing and once the trend is over, the best way to sell something is by making it sexy.

I feel that's just her trying to virtue signal, you know how it is, make them think you're one of them or they'll cancel you', but I mean, Black Widow is sexy. So the woman portraying her should be sexy. If Scarjo turned down the role it woulda been someone else, possibly someone that isn't afraid to embrace the sexiness without being afraid of being cancelled.

Or idk maybe with everyone trying to push all the females into such 'important' roles, Scarjo felt left out just being 'the sexy one' that she felt she has to speak up and be like 'i can be important too'.

[AquaParade]

I wish Disney+ would release a movie I'm dying to see onto the service, at the same time it is in theaters. I actually want to support the model of getting movies directly to your home. I will pay the $30, but it has to be something I'm dying to see. I would have happily done it for Infinity War or Endgame, but not Mulan or Black Widow.

I almost would have paid for Black Widow, but I think they held it for too long, and the reviews aren't killer, so there is admittedly a bit of "hype" lost there. Now I'm fine waiting.

[IMJ]

Most of the MCU is terrible and they get progressively worse each year, people just won't admit it.

I don't know if any of it is terrible per se, but I definitely agree with the spirit of what you are saying - there is a lot of MCU that only gets cheering because of "event zombies" and several one-view flicks.

As for MCU being "terrible", I disagree. The storytelling can be sterile at times, but what they're achieving is quite impressive and worthy of accolades.

8)

let's be honest, if she hadn't been sexualized in Iron Man 2, no one would care who black widow was, well maybe that's a bit exaggerated but she wouldn't have become as popular as quick as she did. You had this badass hot double spy doing crazy acrobatics.
Sex sells, which is why twitch is full of THOTs that contribute 0 to the website, make it worse but get all the viewers. This is why SJW trend will end sooner than later, because of marketing and once the trend is over, the best way to sell something is by making it sexy.

Sure, yeah to some extent. And let's be honest about that appearance as well - she did nothing of merit in that movie until the hallway sequence at the end.

But to be honest, Scarlett has really earned her way into the character for me personally. Black Widow has hard core and long ties to Iron Man and I never felt that her Black Widow was even remotely the one I wanted to see on screen, but she's made the character enough of her own that I began to buy into it. I will say though that there is no buy-in at all whatsoever that she's from Russia. At all. They can write it into the scripts, but Scarlett has literally done nothing that sells that other than saying "I'm from Russia".

There is a solid argument to be made that the best Black Widow ever on screen her depiction in the Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Avengers 2 direct to video animations from some time back now. That was an incredibly well done character there. I actually have some of the original animation art from those movies...

https://i.imgur.com/p2fr4Kel.jpg https://i.imgur.com/E0t4NGjl.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

I don't know if any of it is terrible per se, but I definitely agree with the spirit of what you are saying - there is a lot of MCU that only gets cheering because of "event zombies" and several one-view flicks.

Most of the 'event zombies' get their meat from the trailers, they go to the movie for the meme material, the mid-credit and post-credit scenes, and talk about what's coming next. They never watch them for the actual plot. Everything about these films is designed to distract from the fact they're souless, don't try, and rarely have any material worth padding out two and half hours or more for.

[Andrew NDB]

Most of the 'event zombies' get their meat from the trailers, they go to the movie for the meme material, the mid-credit and post-credit scenes, and talk about what's coming next. They never watch them for the actual plot. Everything about these films is designed to distract from the fact they're souless, don't try, and rarely have any material worth padding out two and half hours or more for.

That seems overly harsh. I've found a good amount of heart in more MCU movies than not.

[Sumac]

Digitalspy are usually very sweet to the MCU, but even they can't hide their disappointment
Whoever wrote this Digitalspy review has mental problems, if they find jokes about menstruation to be "cathartic". Also, that passage about forced sterilization is lol, but whatever, virtue signal paranoid ****s gonna virtue signal.

As for the quality of the MCU it is all over the place. Between amazing Iron Man and Captain Americas, you have mediocre Thors and Hulk.

Endgame was the highest note franchise could achieve and after that I feel things went downhill, since even Feige doesn't know how to built this hype back. The fact that they retired two main stars of the MCU doesn't help. TV series and solo movies, which should have been released 10 years ago are not equal to the hype generated by movies.

If anything MCU might become strictly TV franchise with occasional Thor-like movie released here and there.

[ZariusTwo]

That seems overly harsh. I've found a good amount of heart in more MCU movies than not.

Sure, there are 'heartfelt' moments, but that's what I mean by mining for meme material, a speech, a bit of soft banter etc , a wisecrack, all that qualifies as 'heart', and they then wind up as .gifs on twitter.

I go to movies for plot, not character moments, and most of the movies simply don't bother prioritising the former