Apu To Be Dropped From The Simpsons

[ZariusTwo]

"It’s not a step forward, or step backwards, it’s just a massive step sideways"

The Simpsons have confirmed that controversial character Apu will be cut out of future episodes.

The long-running show has come under fire for it’s depiction of Kwik-E-Mart owner Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, with viewers complaining that the character promotes racist stereotypes of people of Indian and Asian descent.

Apu first appeared in The Simpsons episode ‘The Telltale Head’ in 1990, voiced by white actor Hank Azaria.

The Simpsons producer Adi Shankar spoke to IndieWire about his attempts to crowdsource a script that tackled the ‘Apu Problem’, which has now been rejected as the character is to be dropped from the show.

“I’ve verified from multiple sources now: They’re going to drop the Apu character altogether,” he said. “They aren’t going to make a big deal out of it, or anything like that, but they’ll drop him altogether just to avoid the controversy.”

Shankar sees the decision as a mistake, saying: “If you are a show about cultural commentary and you are too afraid to comment on the culture, especially when it’s a component of the culture you had a hand in creating, then you are a show about cowardice.

“It’s not a step forward, or step backwards, it’s just a massive step sideways. After having read all these wonderful scripts, I feel like sidestepping this issue doesn’t solve it when the whole purpose of art, I would argue, is to bring us together.”

Hank Azaria, the actor who voices Apu, has previously said that he is willing to “step aside” following criticism over the character.


Homer and Marge, and Manjula and Apu discuss Apu’s impending deportation in ‘Much Apu About Something’ episode from May 5 1996

Shankar also expanded on his plan was to find a script that “takes a creation that was the byproduct of a predominately Harvard-educated white male writers’ room and transform it into a fresh, funny and realistic portrayal of Indians in America”.

He claims to have found the “perfect script”, but it is highly unlikely it will be used.


Last year, comedian Hari Kondabolu hosted The Problem With Apu, a documentary that saw him interview figures from the world of entertainment including Aziz Ansari, Whoopi Goldberg and Kal Penn to look into the problematic nature of the iconic shop owner. Watch the documentary trailer below.


“Kids in the playground would always mimic the accent and say ‘Thank you, come again!’ or ‘Hello, Mr Homer!’” Kondabolu told the BBC. “Sure, growing up in New York City everyone tries to be funny. If you grow up there you learn to make jokes and how to make comebacks, but it’s hard to counter an accent – what’s your comeback for an accent?”

The show was further criticised in April over the episode ‘No Good Read Goes Unpunished’, where the issue of Apu’s depiction was tackled head on as Marge and Lisa discussed the portrayal of the character.

Lisa Simpson is heard to say “Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect. What can you do?”


The show now plans to side-step the controversy with Apu by ensuring he quietly vanishes from Springfield.


Read more at https://www.nme.com/news/tv/simpsons-confirm-apu-leave-2394238#Om5DzrirPJkGHXGE.99

[BartAllen]

Stupid move. I hope a version of the character starts to appear on Southpark.

[Allio]

Shame. He is honestly one of the characters I remember most fondly of the simpsons.

[Andrew NDB]

At this point yeah, I'm in the "just cancel it" camp. If they're now unable to do the kind of humor they've always done then it's time to close up shop.

[oldmanwinters]

And to think this was only one year ago...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2018/08/20/the-simpsons-real-kwik-e-mart-store-orig.cnn

[TurtleTitan97]

So freaking stupid.

[Kyo Hisagi]

Zombie Simpsons at their best.

[Candy Kappa]

That's a shame, I like the character and it seems the Simpsons see some merit in the recent criticism, they should tackle it head on instead of just give up the character.

[ABrown]

At this point yeah, I'm in the "just cancel it" camp. If they're now unable to do the kind of humor they've always done then it's time to close up shop.

Yeah, I wish to god that they would just put that poor show out of its misery.

[Utrommaniac]

I have this to say:...

What he said:
F68l9FozxJ8

[Wesley]

Shame. Apu is one of my fav characters. I never thought there was anything racist about him.

[Leo656]

It's 2018. Everything is racist. EVERYTHING.

Also, I'm very curious how much Disney has to do with this.

My guess is, "Something."

[sdp]

This is ridiculous, I mean it's not even a thing anymore, the outrage came and went and the simpsons have been full of controvertial things since its inception. Disney is definitely a reason as to why this happened since they have no intention in stopping the simpsons. A shame how a few people could change something that really wasn't hurting anyone and ironically enough now there's less representation of Indians on tv.

Only upside to this is that the golden age of the simpsons came and went with Apu and current simpsons are just a parody of themselves. It´ll be interesting how they just ignore the Kwik E Mart since it was such a great hub but I also think it's better to just completely ignore him than giving Apu a new voice or any other alternative.

[Prowler]

I knew it was something about "RACISM!" before I even opened the thread :lol:

Anyway, The Simpsons should have ended ages ago. Every time I see something from modern day Simpsons it saddens me, because all they do is ruin the legacy of the first 13 or so Simpsons seasons.

[Leo656]

It still has its moments, but it's been obsessed with "THIS WEEK'S Celebrity Guest Star Is..." for quite some time. And that's annoying. It's like it only exists so celebrities can cameo on it.

Also, at some point all Fox animated shows were decreed to copy Family Guy. Simpsons and Family Guy are very, very different, so that really didn't help anything.

[Prowler]

It still has its moments, but it's been obsessed with "THIS WEEK'S Celebrity Guest Star Is..." for quite some time. And that's annoying. It's like it only exists so celebrities can cameo on it.

Also, at some point all Fox animated shows were decreed to copy Family Guy. Simpsons and Family Guy are very, very different, so that really didn't help anything.

That sounds like what WWE was doing in 2009-2010 lol

Man, I remember when people's biggest criticism of Family Guy was that i "ripped off" The Simpsons. The irony. :tlol:

[Leo656]

Eh. "The Dad is stupid" has been a sitcom staple for many years. Aside from a few superficial similarities, the two shows have always been very, very different.

Their cross-over kind of lampshaded the so-called "ripoff" aspect, but really, it only works if viewed in very broad strokes. "They have a family, there's two kids and a baby, and a pet. The kids smartmouth the parents and the Dad is a dumbass."

That's every show. Like, all the shows. Even Simpsons didn't start any of that.

I think the biggest differences between them have always been, The Simpsons is mostly lighthearted and good-natured, while Family Guy is intrinsically mean-spirited and reminds you constantly that every single character is an absolutely terrible person.

Ultimately, the only real similarity is, they're both animated comedies on Fox. Everything else is circumstantial.

[Prowler]

Eh. "The Dad is stupid" has been a sitcom staple for many years. Aside from a few superficial similarities, the two shows have always been very, very different.

Their cross-over kind of lampshaded the so-called "ripoff" aspect, but really, it only works if viewed in very broad strokes. "They have a family, there's two kids and a baby, and a pet. The kids smartmouth the parents and the Dad is a dumbass."

That's every show. Like, all the shows. Even Simpsons didn't start any of that.

I think the biggest differences between them have always been, The Simpsons is mostly lighthearted and good-natured, while Family Guy is intrinsically mean-spirited and reminds you constantly that every single character is an absolutely terrible person.

Ultimately, the only real similarity is, they're both animated comedies on Fox. Everything else is circumstantial.

Ye pretty much.

I haven't cared about Family Guy in years. Plus, Famiyl Guy has always been more about gags and over the top scenes. It doesn't feel as legendary as The Simpsons.

Family Guy also had the problem of flanderizing its characters throughout the years. Didn't the show get cancelled a couple of times?

[Leo656]

Just once.

Those gags are WHY it's legendary. :lol: That record store gag with, "Always finish on de Bach... NEVER finish on DeBussey!" was one of the greatest things ever. Perfectly set up and executed, and it gets better as it goes along until the final punchline. Masterful.

I think a lot of people just get tired of these shows and stop watching, then insist the shows themselves lost steam or whatever.

The Cleveland Show was terrible, though.

[Prowler]

Just once.

Those gags are WHY it's legendary. :lol: That record store gag with, "Always finish on de Bach... NEVER finish on DeBussey!" was one of the greatest things ever. Perfectly set up and executed, and it gets better as it goes along until the final punchline. Masterful.

I think a lot of people just get tired of these shows and stop watching, then insist the shows themselves lost steam or whatever.

The Cleveland Show was terrible, though.

Family Guy does have its moments like the right to bear arms thing, for example. But I liked it more when I was a teenager.

Never cared much American Dad and much less about Cleveland Show.

[Leo656]

American Dad is okay. It's weird because the entire first season is totally contradictory with everything after. But it's pretty good sometimes. I had no idea it's been on for as long as it's been. But then, that show got shifted from Fox to TBS at some point.

[Coola Yagami]

American Dad is okay. It's weird because the entire first season is totally contradictory with everything after. But it's pretty good sometimes. I had no idea it's been on for as long as it's been. But then, that show got shifted from Fox to TBS at some point.

Examples? It's been a long time since I've seen the first season and your views would be interesting.

[Leo656]

Well, there's two main things. The biggest one being, the Season One conceit that Roger had never been outside of the Smith's attic ever since Stan rescued him from the government, and that he had a small collection of disguises simply for occasions when he'd have to go downstairs and someone might see him. That was almost immediately retconned in future Seasons, where they stated that Roger had been having adventures outside for decades, thanks to his endless supply of disguises, and had even been living multiple lives in multiple personas concurrently the entire time. Many of the Season One plots directly revolved around "We can't let anyone see Roger!", and every season thereafter treats it like a complete afterthought, since he's now a legendary Master Of Disguise. He also turns the attic into a rotating string of businesses like a bar and a gym, somehow, instead of just using it as his hiding spot. Again, in Season One he constantly bitched about never being allowed out of the attic, then it's all "Nah, he barely even stays in the house at all, what with his 47 parallel lives that he juggles."

The other big change is that in Season One, Stan was written to be a complete caricature of a Bush-loving Republican conservative, Hailey as a polar opposite, extreme-Liberal hippie, and the show was initially created as a means to riff on the culture clash between them. However, the writers quickly got tired of the whole Red Vs. Blue thing, finding it too one-dimensional, and starting with Season Two they pushed all of that into the background. Obviously, they still are who they are, but Stan's a bit less of a Hysterical Conservative and more of a General All-Purpose Moron who happens to work at the CIA, rather than his entire character being defined by his Bush-loving hyperbole.

Arguably, the show got better as it went along, so these changes are pretty much all for the best. But Season One stands out as a serious oddball compared to the rest of the series. The creators themselves have gone so far as to say that anyone could safely skip Season One, if they felt like it, as aside from introducing the characters and relationships the rest of it kind of "doesn't count."

[Wildcat]

Ok if it’s actually true, like forever, then it’s stupid because there’s other stereotypical characters on the shows so why only the Indian character?

I would not be surprised if it’s some elaborate joke where Apu disappears for like a season and returns having been away for some mysterious reason.

Blaming Disney doesn’t make sense. They can’t erase him from the previous seasons. They know he’s ingrained in the history of the show. Plus I doubt they actually consider him offensive.

I’m repeating myself but as someone who consistently watches the show I hate hearing stuff like Zombie Simpsons/too repetitive (real life is also repetitive) and the celebrities are barely focused on when they appear or they’re voicing a different character.

Losing interest is totally fine. I’ve stopped watching some but I don’t root for them to be canceled. Why do you care if you no longer watch?

[The Deadman]

I don't think Disney has anything to do with this just yet, besides they have their own problems to deal with when it comes to who finds their characters offensive.

[ZariusTwo]

Zombie Simpsons/too repetitive (real life is also repetitive)

Life is only repetitive if you carry on with the same cycle in your day to day routine without a want or care to grow. Are you seriously praising the show for not caring to grow? Maybe it's because YOU find life repetitive and tiresome, but plenty in the world get out there and make something of themselves.

[Vegita-San]

Cancel the simpsons.

you can't get rid of apu.

why not get rid of wiggum next? insults fat people. or Ralph? insults disabled mentally people...

[ZariusTwo]

or Ralph? insults disabled mentally people...

Gail Simone wanted to write a Simpsons spin-off title where Ralph and Lisa would team up to solve mysteries. Think how great that would have been, a solid representation of people with special needs involved in sleuthing...but apparently it was shot down.

I really do think Lisa and Ralph are a good fit for one another in the "opposites attract" fashion. It's a shame not much is done with their relationship other than played for a few laughs.

[The Deadman]

Cancel the simpsons.

you can't get rid of apu.

why not get rid of wiggum next? insults fat people. or Ralph? insults disabled mentally people...

Nah, Wiggum is made fun of for being a lazy police officer.

[neatoman]

Oh man they removed one of the absolute earliest characters from a show with 640+ episodes? Well it's a good thing he got to be in at least 140 episodes by my count.

I mean seriously, who cares at this point? The show is 20 years past it's prime (of course a character created 30 years ago will seem dated) and unless the Simpsons continues until season 61 (which it obviously isn't going to), Apu will still have been part of the bulk of the seasons and more importanlty the few seasons anyone actually cares about.

[Storm Eagle]

Cancel the simpsons.

you can't get rid of apu.

why not get rid of wiggum next? insults fat people. or Ralph? insults disabled mentally people...

Gail Simone wanted to write a Simpsons spin-off title where Ralph and Lisa would team up to solve mysteries. Think how great that would have been, a solid representation of people with special needs involved in sleuthing...but apparently it was shot down.


I'm guessing the "mentally disabled" mention is hypothetical, but is that really what Ralph is? I'm not sure he falls into the "special needs" category either. I've always just thought of him as just peculiar.

[Redeemer]

Cancel the simpsons.

you can't get rid of apu.

why not get rid of wiggum next? insults fat people. or Ralph? insults disabled mentally people...

This is an extremely good point. I am honestly surprised Ralph has not been removed from the show at this point. Apu is a generic immigrant store owner its crazy how sensitive and insensitive people can be, at the same time. They find is completely unacceptable for a show to portray this character who's role has been reduced who has little offensive actions, but they are okay with another character that openly makes fun of people who suffer from mental retardation....... Yeah.... WTF.....

I am not want Ralph to be removed from the show I am just using him as a contrast, bc they are night in day.

Nah, Wiggum is made fun of for being a lazy police officer.

I can't tell if you're serious or not, but they do seriously mock and stereotype police all through out this show and guess what big whoop!!!


Our society is starting to go down a dangerous path of intolerance and hate. This is a small blow to freedom of speech and expression.

[IMJ]

with viewers complaining that the character promotes racist stereotypes of people of Indian and Asian descent.


What viewers? Who exactly? How many? Ten people, or maybe a small coalition of 50 agenda-laden liberals as measured against an entire country who otherwise has no problems with this? About a character that evolved beyond the joke and grew into one that people actually wound up loving?

Do not vote Democrat, people. If these people are put in power there's just more and more of this coming - political correctness forced on us, loss of expressive freedoms, censorship, and the opinions of manic individuals thrust upon you in action rather than in word for consideration. Guilt by accusation....

This is what these people are nowadays. If you don't like this example of censorship of a show that's made it for almost 40 years, then don't vote Democrats into office because even though this Simpsons thing wasn't a government edict, with more Democrats in power, it will be.

[ZariusTwo]

This is an extremely good point. I am honestly surprised Ralph has not been removed from the show at this point

We could do with the set up for "Chief Wiggum P.I" being made canon at some point then:P

[Autbot_Benz]

with viewers complaining that the character promotes racist stereotypes of people of Indian and Asian descent.


What viewers? Who exactly? How many? Ten people, or maybe a small coalition of 50 agenda-laden liberals as measured against an entire country who otherwise has no problems with this? About a character that evolved beyond the joke and grew into one that people actually wound up loving?

Do not vote Democrat, people. If these people are put in power there's just more and more of this coming - political correctness forced on us, loss of expressive freedoms, censorship, and the opinions of manic individuals thrust upon you in action rather than in word for consideration. Guilt by accusation....

This is what these people are nowadays. If you don't like this example of censorship of a show that's made it for almost 40 years, then don't vote Democrats into office because even though this Simpsons thing wasn't a government edict, with more Democrats in power, it will be.

you are just as crazy as mrmaczaps the other resident righty to the ignore list with you.

Also don't tell people how to vote the conservatives are no better

[Utrommaniac]

There is something to be said now about characters having to be written-off at this point in time, especially when they're significant characters. Like Mrs. Krabapple because her actress died, even when she was going through a huge personal reinvention after marrying Flanders (who was going through his own personal reinvention through her).


That was just one voice actress, but what happens when it's someone who has to do multiple characters? Like Hank Azaria, who voices practically half the town? Do you replace him? Throw out the characters that can't quite make the cut in impersonation? Or just shut down the whole show? What if someone from the Simpsons family themselves dies? Julie Cavner is 68, she's nearly 70. sh!t so's my dad.... The life of the show is practically resting on hers.

[CyberCubed]

Simpsons isn't even renewed past Season 30 yet, as far as we know this is the final season. Obviously the hold up is Fox being bought out by Disney, but as of right now the show isn't greenlit to continue after this year so it might not even matter.

30 seasons means it last 20+ years past it's prime anyway. I followed the show up through Season 21 or so so I continued to watch well past the classic seasons, but even then I knew it was time to end.

[The Deadman]

This is an extremely good point. I am honestly surprised Ralph has not been removed from the show at this point. Apu is a generic immigrant store owner its crazy how sensitive and insensitive people can be, at the same time. They find is completely unacceptable for a show to portray this character who's role has been reduced who has little offensive actions, but they are okay with another character that openly makes fun of people who suffer from mental retardation....... Yeah.... WTF.....

I am not want Ralph to be removed from the show I am just using him as a contrast, bc they are night in day.



I can't tell if you're serious or not, but they do seriously mock and stereotype police all through out this show and guess what big whoop!!!


Our society is starting to go down a dangerous path of intolerance and hate. This is a small blow to freedom of speech and expression.

I was being serious. Chief Wiggum is looked at as a fat, lazy police officer who won't do anything unless the crime is super serious, or he's bribed. His partners are also looked at as bumbling idiots.

[Storm Eagle]

Simpsons isn't even renewed past Season 30 yet, as far as we know this is the final season. Obviously the hold up is Fox being bought out by Disney, but as of right now the show isn't greenlit to continue after this year so it might not even matter.



I'm almost sure it's still not the end.

[Prowler]

with viewers complaining that the character promotes racist stereotypes of people of Indian and Asian descent.


What viewers? Who exactly? How many? Ten people, or maybe a small coalition of 50 agenda-laden liberals as measured against an entire country who otherwise has no problems with this? About a character that evolved beyond the joke and grew into one that people actually wound up loving?



Yeah, I wouldn't' be surprised AT ALL if the people complaining about Apu turn out to be just a bunch of hipster 20 year old left-wing upper middle class white Americans trying to speak for Indian people just to show how "open minded" they are :lol:

[sdp]

Basically an indian nobody ex-comedy central I believe made a documentary about why Apu was evil and SJW who come together over any issue for convenience sake because they're better than you decided Apu was now racist and a huge problem even though it really wasn't before. The Simpsons handled it like pretty much every controversy and the extreme left went nuts and the voice actor didn't like being associated with all the controversy from what I saw in the interviews and it makes sense since it's not a good strategy for tv/movie actors so I'm guessing that was a deciding factor. Matt Groening doesn't seem to give a crap and defended Apu but he also doesn't mind much anymore of what goes on with the Simpsons. The guy who made the documentary didn't even want Apu gone, he was mostly using the current political climate to make something with "relevance" and it worked but it went too far.

Apu will be missed. As far as the Simpsons ending, they are never going to end as I explain below.


That was just one voice actress, but what happens when it's someone who has to do multiple characters? Do you replace him? Throw out the characters that can't quite make the cut in impersonation? Or just shut down the whole show? What if someone from the Simpsons family themselves dies? Julie Cavner is 68, she's nearly 70. sh!t so's my dad.... The life of the show is practically resting on hers.

Because of these reasons people did think Season 30 or very soon it'd be the end of the Simpsons but just this year we heard from both Fox and Disney that there are basically no plans on the show ending. As soon as one of the main voice actors dies they'll just replace them and once one is replaced no one will bat an eye when the others are. Sad, but pretty much all foreign dubs of the Simpsons have gotten rid of their equally iconic casts at different points and the show continued.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm just curious what they're gonna do about the Kwick-E-Mart. I mean... it's one of the landmarks of the show. Will Bart and Millhouse suddenly stop going there? Will an episode destroy it and have Apu return to his country? I mean, how are they gonna do this? It's not like Miss Krapapple because even without her, the school and the other characters related to it can still function.

Hmm, I guess Snake will also appear less, since most of his cameos are him robbing Apu.

[Prowler]

I'm just curious what they're gonna do about the Kwick-E-Mart. I mean... it's one of the landmarks of the show. Will Bart and Millhouse suddenly stop going there? Will an episode destroy it and have Apu return to his country? I mean, how are they gonna do this? It's not like Miss Krapapple because even without her, the school and the other characters related to it can still function.

Hmm, I guess Snake will also appear less, since most of his cameos are him robbing Apu.

Maybe James Woods will go back to working there by buying it from Apu :P

[Leo656]

Maybe James Woods will go back to working there by buying it from Apu :P

I actually said that to someone yesterday. :lol:

Except James Woods is an outspoken Conservative, and thus, not allowed to work anymore.

[Wildcat]

Life is only repetitive if you carry on with the same cycle in your day to day routine without a want or care to grow. Are you seriously praising the show for not caring to grow? Maybe it's because YOU find life repetitive and tiresome, but plenty in the world get out there and make something of themselves.Oh my you’re right. Thankyou for enlightening me. I was about to go to my local Kwik-e-Mart for a slurpy.

How exactly should it have “grown” without totally changing? I guess they could have actually aged. The tone/humor would have stayed the same though. People have would have still complained that it was rehashing. Only with the kids being adults now.

Again I seriously doubt this is 100% true. I can’t help but feel it’s a joke or publicity stunt where he only leaves temporarily. It certainly attracts attention to the subject.

[ZariusTwo]

Sad, but pretty much all foreign dubs of the Simpsons have gotten rid of their equally iconic casts at different points and the show continued.

Foreign dubs have no choice but to carry the show onwards because new episodes with the characters are still being made in the States, so that's a poor example. The show's made it abundantly clear that when a VA dies, the character is retired, or if a VA retires, the character is retired

That might change with Disney, (who have gone through at least two Kermit the Frogs since acquiring The Muppets), but for now, that policy in the show has cost us Troy, Maude, Edna, the Dinner lady etc.

[drgon78]

Dinner Lady?

[Utrommaniac]

I think the lunch lady at the school? I'd probably just scratch the confusion up to being cultural differences.


But my point stands that one of these days, they're going to lose half the cast or a significant part of the cast that can't be replaced as easily.


If they could replace an actor as easily as before, then they could easily have had Billy West come in to do Troy and Lionel once he had mastered the voice with Zapp Brannigan on Futurama. IDK, maybe it was the nature of Phil Hartman's death that made him irreplaceable.

[Sumac]

At this point yeah, I'm in the "just cancel it" camp. If they're now unable to do the kind of humor they've always done then it's time to close up shop.
What normal people can expect from lefties?
Their understanding of the humor is on the level of the kissless virgins in the puritanical church school. Everything that goes beyond it is "problematique" one way or the other. Gladly such idiots always fail, but still it's quite sad, that after so much years of progress Western culture is under threat of the hypocritical political censorship and puritanical ideology.

[sdp]

No one on either side of the debate actually watches current Simpsons ironically enough.

[Redeemer]

No one on either side of the debate actually watches current Simpsons ironically enough.

:lol: this is so true and I am guilty of this. I'll watch the new Halloween episode every year and maybe an episode after that to check it out, but after that nope :lol:

[Xav]

I think the lunch lady at the school?Nah that character was recast.

[Storm Eagle]

:lol: this is so true and I am guilty of this. I'll watch the new Halloween episode every year and maybe an episode after that to check it out, but after that nope :lol:

Interesting. I still watch, and those are the episodes I usually skip.

[Papenbrook]

Good. I would have done the same thing.

[Wildcat]

No one on either side of the debate actually watches current Simpsons ironically enough.

:lol: this is so true and I am guilty of this. I'll watch the new Halloween episode every year and maybe an episode after that to check it out, but after that nope :lol:Guess you didn’t read my first post. I watch every new season.

[Sumac]

Good. I would have done the same thing.
But, of course.

I wonder what kind of characters you would have in the comedy series if it was up to you?

Something tells me, that none, because, making fun of anyone would have been considered "racist, sexist, ableist, problematic, in a bad taste". This sure would have been a hit. :roll:

[sdp]

Foreign dubs have no choice but to carry the show onwards because new episodes with the characters are still being made in the States, so that's a poor example. The show's made it abundantly clear that when a VA dies, the character is retired, or if a VA retires, the character is retired

That might change with Disney, (who have gone through at least two Kermit the Frogs since acquiring The Muppets), but for now, that policy in the show has cost us Troy, Maude, Edna, the Dinner lady etc.

I don't like the idea either but it's most likely going to be happening. The powers that be at Fox specifically mentioned they had no interest in stopping the Simpsons even if the Disney deal hadn't happened, I posted that in another simpsons thread. And similar article on Disney wanting the Simpsons.

They mentioned they were going to get another voice actor when one of them threatened to quit like 2 years ago (was it Mr. Burns?) And they specifically mentioned they wouldn't kill him and would just re-cast, sure you can argue that was just a negotiating tactic but it happened. I feel that Disney is going to continue the Simpsons and if a voice actor dies or wants to cut down costs since they're expensive they'll just replace them. There will be outrage on the internet for sure but it'll be mostly by people who don't watch anyway and casuals will just accept it and once one VA change is accepted everyone is fair game until they don't see it profitable.



Guess you didn’t read my first post. I watch every new season.
I said most not all, I also meant in general all over the internet not just here.

[ZariusTwo]

Al Jean responds to the rumours, says Shankar does not speak for them but does not commit to a definitive answer on what will be done with Apu.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-46017390

[Leo656]

But, of course.

I wonder what kind of characters you would have in the comedy series if it was up to you?

Something tells me, that none, because, making fun of anyone would have been considered "racist, sexist, ableist, problematic, in a bad taste". This sure would have been a hit. :roll:

Thinking the saaaame thing. :lol:

Sometimes, I like to watch "Eddie Murphy: RAW" and wonder how the hell we fell so far so fast.

Like, HOW did we go from "Saying we have bigger lips isn't racist, it's true" to "You can't point out that people with accents have accents, that's offensive"? :roll:

Eddie, Richard Pryor, and Carlin would have never even been handed a mic in this day and age. F*cking shameful.

[Galactus]

This isn't going to be a popular sentiment here but the Simpsons brought this all on themselves.

Basically an indian nobody ex-comedy central I believe made a documentary about why Apu was evil and SJW who come together over any issue for convenience sake because they're better than you decided Apu was now racist and a huge problem even though it really wasn't before.

Y'see that wasn't what Hari Kondabolu's documentary was about. That was what reactionary idiots jumped to the moment they heard about it but it's made clear that Apu is not a racist character and people are not bad for liking him.

It's main thing was interviewing Asian entertainers who have had their lives effected by Apu in someway.

The idea that there was problematic elements to Apu is not something that just came up now by rampant SJWs it's always been there. Even when the character was created there was some discussion among the writers about whether it was offensive. Ultimately they sided on that mostly okay it but the fact that it has to be discussed at all shows they knew it was iffy territory.

Frankly in this instance The Simpsons is a victim of its own success. Had Apu not proved popular and become one of the shows main characters and the Simpsons not become such a mammoth hit likely no one would care but it did and as such the shows characters and catchphrases become ubiquitous and did have an impact outside the show. I know this because because I saw it first hand. An Indian kid I went to school with was often teased with people imitating Apu as well as two Indian characters from a popular soap opera. There was no malice in it and it didn't seem to bother him but he told me once that after the millionth "thank you come again" it started to bother him.

Here's the thing though no one was calling for Apu to go (in fact Kondabolu's suggestion was to include more South Asian characters in addition to Apu) and no one was making it an issue of this until the current writers of the show randomly a year later decided to make it one.

The Simpsons handled it like pretty much every controversy

No they didn't. The way the Simpsons handled controversy (at least back when I used to watch it) was always with a detached coolness. Here The Simpsons got real pissy about it. Hank Azaria himself thought the way they handled it was poor and it should be said that he's been a class act about all of this.

If they wanted to address this they could have included other Indian characters voiced by actual Indian people. Is Sanjay still a side character? If so would anyone mind if he was voiced by an Indian VA? Maybe point out that Apu is more of a unique soul as opposed to a realistic portrayal of Indian Culture. Or they could have just ignored it because they're the ****ing Simpsons and have the clout to do that. Instead they got really thin skinned about this.

I can't help but think the shows writers in its golden age would have handled this a lot better. They knew going in that this was iffy territory but mitigated it by making Apu a such a well rounded character, you could argue he was one of the more progressive characters of the 90s. If they wanted to they could have deftly handled this better than the entitled fanboys which are today's current Simpsons writers.

This is a problem with nerd culture in general and why we have the various 'gates'. For years fanboys have whined that things like cartoons/comics/video games aren't treated like a legitimate art form but something treated as a legitimate art form is going to be subject to critical analysis and certain sections of nerd culture have proven far too immature to handle that and have such become easy prey to co-opted by people who don't give a crap about them or the things they are into to use in their political culture wars.

In an even broader context I keep hearing people particularly on the political right say we need open discussions and debates and subjects should not be off limits or punished for "wrong think" until of course it threatens their own security blanket opinions then that discussion has to be dismissed or shut down.

Except James Woods is an outspoken Conservative, and thus, not allowed to work anymore.

Like Chris Pratt, The Rock, Tim Allen, Arnold Schwarzenegger etc.

Unlike them James Woods believes in Qanon and harasses victims of school shootings. I don't know if that means he shouldn't work in Hollywood but we should definitely call him out for being a stupid ****.

[sdp]

Y'see that wasn't what Hari Kondabolu's documentary was about. That was what reactionary idiots jumped to the moment they heard about it but it's made clear that Apu is not a racist character and people are not bad for liking him.

Well I never watched it or had any intention but the few videos I saw on the subject which summarized it telling you why it was a porblem sure seemed to go in that direction as well as the endless "Geek" news blog cycle posts did. Simpsons is a comedy show Apu is a better character than most of their caricatures, I see horrible portrayals of cultures in tv shows all the time that offend me but without a cool documentary to be progressive about it, people just don't care and yet they like to go on SJW tirades over the cool thing to complain of the week.



No they didn't. The way the Simpsons handled controversy (at least back when I used to watch it) was always with a detached coolness. I can't help but think the shows writers in its golden age would have handled this a lot better.

Well you don't think they did, I thought they handled it well so I guess that's subjective. I mean yeah, the golden age simpsons is what we all love, of course they would've handled it much better. And yes the VA of Apu obviously doesn't like being associated in a negative light and has been totally understanding, that doesn't mean the complains are correct, especially when most don't even come from indians.

This is a problem with nerd culture in general
There's a lot of assumptions there and I don't want to get into it in general so I'll keept it as short as I can. There really isn't a problem, the problem came from elsewhere, it became "cool" to be a geek and now the current mainstream trend wants to change this sub/anti-culture and being attacked for questioning it and not accepting the norm. There's a correlation between nerd culture being extremely progressive in the past and now turning on it, it wants freedom.

[Utrommaniac]

The big thing I can say is that it's probably not going to be an off-hand departure. There would be an entire episode around it.


My guess is that he might have to go back to India for whatever reason (get notice that his aging parents need his help, open a Kwik-E-Mart franchise in his hometown, both...), and the Simpsons might struggle with it considering how, at least in the Golden Era, he was practically family.

They gave him a place to stay when he lost his job, they helped him hide from his arranged marriage and then immediately helped him with the wedding itself (of course with interruption along the way), they offered help in the conception and raising of his octuplets, they struggled with the family when he had an affair and then helped him and his wife through that; he was Lisa's biggest supporter in her decision to become vegetarian but was also her greatest source of "don't be so loud about it" wisdom in the same breath.

Had this been the Golden Era, it would have been handled with class, but the modern day has no class. (I also get the feeling that this is less of a "caving to the demands of a few" and more of a "attempt to get a boost of viewership by taking advantage of a "controversy" that only a meager few care about.)

[Leo656]

Apparently, according to the producers, the character's already been more or less "retired" and only appearing in non-speaking roles and crowd shots for some time... ever since the initial "controversy" started being talked about.

That was their way of "handling it". If it's to be made "official and permanent", it's as simple as, we're not going to see him again. They'd already committed not to feature him anymore, now it's just official policy, on-paper. They're definitely not giving him any send-off. The episode with him reacting to his upstart nephew a while back apparently WAS the send-off, according to the Powers-That-Be.

I'm guessing everybody in Springfield just stops going to the Kwik-E-Mart. THAT, they'll probably do a whole big thing about. Like someone replacing the Kwik-E-Mart with something else, and they'll lampshade it a bit but never mention Apu's name.

I expect it to be kinda snarky and bitter, with some fourth-wall breaking, essentially telling the audience, "We don't like this anymore than you, but eight people wrote letters and now we have to do this."

[Andrew NDB]

I expect it to be kinda snarky and bitter, with some fourth-wall breaking, essentially telling the audience, "We don't like this anymore than you, but eight people wrote letters and now we have to do this."

SJWs are the worst.

[Galactus]

Well I never watched it or had any intention but the few videos I saw on the subject which summarized it telling you why it was a porblem sure seemed to go in that direction as well as the endless "Geek" news blog cycle posts did. Simpsons is a comedy show Apu is a better character than most of their caricatures, I see horrible portrayals of cultures in tv shows all the time that offend me but without a cool documentary to be progressive about it, people just don't care and yet they like to go on SJW tirades over the cool thing to complain of the week.

Presumably youtube reactionaries, am I right?

It's made clear no one (bar perhaps one person) involved in the documentary thinks the character is racist or that anyone is wrong for liking him but that they all had varying degree of negative experiences in their personal and professional lives which are directly traced back peoples perceptions of Indians being largely based on Apu.

As I said Apu is a great written character, in many ways one of the most progressive characters in television in the 90s but it's strange that so many peoples perceptions of Indians for a while from came from this one cartoon character. I would actually put it down to there being practically no representation at the time of South Asians in general for people to draw on apart from this one character. In that regard it's not really shows fault other than the fact the dared use the character to begin with which was largely positive but had some negatives.

Here's the kicker though no one in the documentary comes across that they are angry or even see it as a big deal anymore, after all The Simpsons doesn't hold the grip on the wider culture as it used to but rather it's something they felt had to get off their chest.

And that was it. I doubt anyone involved expected anything to come of it and when it was announced that a year on the show would address "the problem with Apu" it was largely met with a positive response.

Well you don't think they did, I thought they handled it well so I guess that's subjective. I mean yeah, the golden age simpsons is what we all love, of course they would've handled it much better. And yes the VA of Apu obviously doesn't like being associated in a negative light and has been totally understanding, that doesn't mean the complains are correct, especially when most don't even come from indians.

But it does originate from Indian people.

Your right that opinions on how well the show handled it are subjective but I would argue there is one objective measure to argue how they messed up.

It had been a year since the documentary and no one was really talking about it anymore. The possibility of them course correcting was even met with a positive response which they pissed away. They turned a complete non-issue into an issue.

There's a lot of assumptions there and I don't want to get into it in general so I'll keept it as short as I can. There really isn't a problem, the problem came from elsewhere, it became "cool" to be a geek and now the current mainstream trend wants to change this sub/anti-culture and being attacked for questioning it and not accepting the norm. There's a correlation between nerd culture being extremely progressive in the past and now turning on it, it wants freedom.

Being a nerd isn't really cool. If your physically and/or socially awkward and have an obsession with sci fi or fantasy stuff chances are you're probably not the coolest kid in school.

Nerd culture sorta is but it's a version heavily filtered through a mainstream lense. Actuall nerd media is still very niche hence why comics still sell poorly and there's still a lot of resistance from fans to marketing them to wider audience.

I'd argue there are two main things that has changed about nerd culture. The first is how they can now interact with each other and have an instant public reaction via the internet. Were once discussion was kept almost soley on each fandoms favoured franchise now discussion on other issue creep in and divisions start.

These divisions come from within though. No one made Jason Aaron make Thor a woman but he did and people loved it enough that a very temporary change was extended for three years and all the people writing think pieces on it were largely long time comic book readers. Of course some fans hated the very idea and rather than wait it out and see where it went get very vocal about it very quickly.

Where outside forces do come into it is that seeing this anger from fans that try and co-opt it into their wider movement to. Do you think anyone at Breitbart cares about video games or Fox News about comic books? They do care about angry young boys they can convince the things they don't like are part of sinister conspiracy though. I can only imagine if X-Men: Gold Loves Man Kills had been published to day and the narrative would be it was an attack on white Christian men. I'm sure some comic fans thought along those lines even back then they just didn't have the outlets to say it or people with political agendas boosting them up.

SJWs are the worst.

Yeah remember when SJWs sent pipe bombs to assassinate politicians they didn't like or the time they shot and killed a bunch of Jewish people at a Synagogue or how about that one who drove a car and killed a young woman back up by a bunch of them with tiki torches chanting "white power" and "Jews will not replace us".

...oh wait.

[Sumac]

Yeah remember when SJWs sent pipe bombs to assassinate politicians they didn't like or the time they shot and killed a bunch of Jewish people at a Synagogue or how about that one who drove a car and killed a young woman back up by a bunch of them with tiki torches chanting "white power" and "Jews will not replace us".

...oh wait.
What if I give you list of pedophiles from Democratic party? :P

[Coola Yagami]

What if I give you list of pedophiles from Democratic party? :P

Does this forum have a character limit?

[Xav]

Do you think anyone at Breitbart cares about video games or Fox News about comic books?Actually yeah I do. Breitbart posts game reviews and news and I know comic fans have worked for Fox News in the past.

[sdp]

Presumably youtube reactionaries, am I right?

negative experiences in their personal and professional lives which are directly traced back peoples perceptions of Indians being largely based on Apu.

Here's the kicker though no one in the documentary comes across that they are angry or even see it as a big deal anymore,

And that was it. I doubt anyone involved expected anything to come of it and when it was announced that a year on the show would address "the problem with Apu" it was largely met with a positive response.



I don't watch reaction video trash, but it was all over the place in the comments sections of everything about Apu being racist and needed to be rid off and all that which apparently isn't even in the documentary. So yeah, people being outraged over something they didn't even watch apparently and who aren't the actual people affected. I do think it was done to cash-in on outrage culture, anyone can get outrage over anything and it gets people talking about it or if you're on the other side of the fence you make a post being outraged over other people being outraged and boom, clicks, money, 5 minute fame, but there's no way to prove either of our views on it so we can just agree to disagree there.

But it does originate from Indian people.

Your right that opinions on how well the show handled it are subjective but I would argue there is one objective measure to argue how they messed up.

It had been a year since the documentary and no one was really talking about it anymore. The possibility of them course correcting was even met with a positive response which they pissed away. They turned a complete non-issue into an issue.

Well animation takes a long time, this isn't South Park where they can be politically relevant, how long did it take for the Bush episode to come out on the Simpsons during its golden age? But I guess here we can agree that golden age Simpsons would've handled it better.


Being a nerd isn't really cool. Nerd culture sorta is but it's a version heavily filtered through a mainstream lense.


Exactly, as far as your other points I disagree but don't really care to debate. I do think we that political movements from are taking advantage of the situation and I'm fed up with it.

[Sage Ninja]

God this is stupid. I actually really like Apu and his wife. People are too freaking sensitive these days. Simpsons's is just a zombie at this point. I think it should have been canceled after that theatrical movie it had way the hell back in 2006. Please just can the show already!

[BartAllen]

Thinking the saaaame thing. :lol:

Sometimes, I like to watch "Eddie Murphy: RAW" and wonder how the hell we fell so far so fast.

Like, HOW did we go from "Saying we have bigger lips isn't racist, it's true" to "You can't point out that people with accents have accents, that's offensive"? :roll:

Eddie, Richard Pryor, and Carlin would have never even been handed a mic in this day and age. F*cking shameful.

Carlin's daughter is a nutcase. Have you ever heard some of her nonsense?

Blazing Saddles wouldn't be allowed in today's world either.
This is the world the SJW crowd want. Everything is sanitized and all the risque stuff is relegated to the dustbins of history.

[BartAllen]

Yeah remember when SJWs sent pipe bombs to assassinate politicians they didn't like or the time they shot and killed a bunch of Jewish people at a Synagogue or how about that one who drove a car and killed a young woman back up by a bunch of them with tiki torches chanting "white power" and "Jews will not replace us".

...oh wait.

I do remember when SJWs sent death threats to the Rabbi who said it would be fine for Trump to visit the site of the shooting. Throwing terms at him that sounded downright similar to the actual shooter

I also remember the SJW that sent ricin to Republican congressmen and members of the Trump family.

Oh, and I also remember when an SJW type shot at Republican Congressmen in Alexandria VA.

I also remember a group of SJWs scalped a kid and, somehow, blamed Donald Trump for the fact that they kidnapped and scalped a guy.

[Leo656]

Carlin's daughter is a nutcase. Have you ever heard some of her nonsense?


No, I have not, but now you've got me curious. Do tell.

I'd heard that George's life at home was... tumultuous, so I wouldn't be shocked if his daughter was affected by that. I know absolutely nothing about her, however.

[Egon1982]

Can't believe this rotting decaying zombiefied shambling corpse is still on the air.

I've been a fan of the Simpsons since i saw them on Tracy Ullman in 87 and 88 when i was 5 and 6 years old and loved those shorts and i taped every episode of the show from 1989 to 2000 and the show should had DIED in 2001! It was a biting satrical show with intelligence, heart (mother Simpson for example), humanity, soul, anti-authority/anti-hollywood social satire and excellence with a proper use of celebrity guest voices. Even quality writing with wit/snark/sarcasm and intelligence especially by Conan O'Brien and relatable characters.

I mean Lisa was a voice of reason, Marge was a lovable sexy mother, Homer was a dumb but likable father who had heart, Bart was a brat with heart and all that. I mean you had the brilliant touching episode of Mother Simpson which was the most moving animated thing i saw at the age of 13 along with Grave of the Fireflies, i mean Alf's score to that episode was very moving and memorable. You also had classics like Old Money which is one of my favorite episodes as that had heart, realism, sincerity and a good use of humor as i felt bad for Grandpa for losing his love interest yet had a uplifting ending on how Grandpa properly spend that money. There was Lisa on Ice which had a touching climax that had heart and sincerity to it as did Lisa's Substitute which is one of my fave episodes as that episode moved me as a kid even with "You are Lisa Simpson" note on it. On the "Bart sells his soul" episode, it had some excellent sarcastic smart well timed humor like the cleaner machine sequence.

I also remembered such quality episodes like my personal favorite episode being Krusty gets Kancelled which was an ingenious satirical episode that mocks celebrity life and had a proper use of celebrities than worship that culture as it was done the right way. That song "Send in the clowns" moved me when i heard that song sung from Krusty which was more from the heart than just for laughs like how when he sang badly during that "sending our love down the well" song. I also remembered when i was 10 when Itchy And Scratchy The Movie episode came out as that is one of my favorite episodes i loved, such a well written episode about Bart learning a big lesson and Kamp Krusty which is my third favorite episode of the show was a ton of fun. Then after 99, something was happening with the show as the characters were not the same ones i knew from my childhood/teenhood and i kept watching in 2000/2001 yet noticing more changes and all even in 2002.

I gave up on this show in 2003 and i moved on to other adult animation as the show was getting soured/stale since 2000 as i feel anything past season 10 is NOT The Simpsons but Zombie Simpsons! I feel The Simpsons is a product of the 90s that belongs in it's own time and has no place in today's world when it should had died in 2001 with Futurama as it's replacement.

Fox aka 20th century Sucks ( a formerly great studio ran by people who care before they went for greed/caring about money more than quality just like Sony as they are so incompetent). I bet TRUE fans of the show who grew up in the late 80s and 90s like me who gave up after 2002 or 2003 or 2004 knew it was an abomination because gone was the intelligent satire, writing/soul/emotion/heart/intelligence is replaced by a living dead corpse of a show puppeted by the greedy Fox who only cares for money than quality as Simpsons is now just another Sitcom than a meaningful intelligent show with emotion/heart/intellgence/soul as Zombie Simpsons feel irrelevant nowadays compared to the 90s Simpsons and of course other adult animation nowadays.

I tried to watch an episode of Zombie Simpsons in 2014 where Krusty's dad died and man oh man i felt my brain was melting and wanted to punch the TV. Even seeing the Lady Gaga episode in clips nearly gave me cancer.

Yet if the show ends next year, it's better to kill something than let it suffer for it's losing more viewers and merchandise sales are going down the drain. This show has became a wounded fatally dying soldier that was shot a bunch of times in a war field and seeping behind a building with other soldiers and is asking "please kill me! please kill me so i won't suffer anymore" or like a i feel like someones badly taxidermied a beloved dead family pet and now they're waving it around outside my window going "LOOK HES FINE". The Simpsons had their time in the sun but since 2001 enough is enough, time to give up Fox and end this show next year! time to rest in peace, move on and done more than enough and more than enough episodes and more than enough episodes as it's becoming a joke of itself and Fox is hurting it's legacy, i feel like it's damaging things and i'm tired of it. I feel like Tom Atkins at the end of Halloween III with "Stop it, stop it, STOP IT!!!!". Plus had a good run in the 90s.

It's not only beating a dead horse, it's also beating a dead childhood/teenhood friend friend who needs to be buried. It's now a shambling soulless unfunny poorly written husk of a show and here's a video that sums things up and i love the Dead Homer's Society blog site which is one of my fave sites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk

By almost any measurement, The Simpsons is the most influential television comedy ever created. It has been translated into every major language on Earth and dozens of minor ones; it has spawned entire genres of animation, and had more books written about it than all but a handful of American Presidents. Even its minor characters have become iconic, and the titular family is recognizable in almost every corner of the planet. It is a definitive and truly global cultural phenomenon, perhaps the biggest of the television age.

if you flip on FOX at 8pm on Sundays nowadays, you will see a program that bills itself as The Simpsons. It is not The Simpsons. That show, the landmark piece of American culture that debuted on 17 December 1989, went off the air more than a decade ago. The replacement is a hopelessly mediocre imitation that bears only a superficial surface resemblance to the original. It is the unwanted sequel, the stale spinoff, the creative dry hole that is kept pumping in the endless search for more money. It is Zombie Simpsons.

It's better to kill this undead rotting corpse of a show by shooting it in the head so it won't shuffle around anymore searching for new life and move on! this isn't the 90s anymore as we moved on and glad the ratings are down, i mean face it, it's no longer a draw anymore.

it's no longer a relevant show anymore. Now Regular Show, Rick and Morty, Bojack Horseman, Bob's Burgers, Archer or whatever nowadays for more relevant adult animation than Zombie Simpsons. Now for example, Bojack Horseman has the same heart/soul/intelligence/spirit/anti-hollywood satire/excellent writing and wit of The Simpsons (aka the real simpsons), not like Zombie Simpsons.

I also feel with Conan and some of the other writers left even Phil Hartman's death, the show went downhill. The first 10 seasons had life and since 2000 it's been on life support. But you know wht, as i'm a futurama, Regular Show and King of the Hill fan, i'm very happy and glad they ended on good notes and didn't become shambling zombie corpses as it's better to let them rest in peace and move on to make new fresh adult animation.

I'm glad i stopped watching the show 16 years ago and moved on to other adult animation. I even saw the awful Simpsons movie in theaters which i had been waiting years to see after hearing in magazines since 1991 about it and it should had been made in the 90s and released around there or in 2000, now that would had been one hell of a thing instead of waiting too long as it's just Zombie Simpsons The Movie. 16 years ago, i finally did said "so long childhood partner, i will miss you" as i knew the show is dead and i moved on to cherish this show on DVD on Simpsons 1 to 10.

Someone once said that being a Simpsons fan is like having a beloved relative or childhood/teenhood friend who's been on life support for years and you've accepted they're gone so you're just waiting for someone to realize they need to pull the plug on them.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

I listen to this on text to speech, since it was so long, but you are so right, but it's the sign of the awful times we leave in. Sucks I know.

[Egon1982]

I listen to this on text to speech, since it was so long, but you are so right, but it's the sign of the awful times we leave in. Sucks I know.

How did you make it into speech? what is the trick?

[TheBlueTurtle1]

when I am short on time or have to multi-task, and there is a long post just use this https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/

[Egon1982]

when I am short on time or have to multi-task, and there is a long post just use this https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/

Thanks and you agree with everything i said and there is more relevant adult animation nowadays like the ones i mentioned and you like my analogies?

[Leo656]

I'm officially past the point where people whining about The Simpsons annoys me way more than anything The Simpsons ever did.

[ZariusTwo]

I'm officially past the point where people whining about The Simpsons annoys me way more than anything The Simpsons ever did.

Peeing on the seat yet?

[Candy Kappa]

I'm officially past the point where people whining about The Simpsons annoys me way more than anything The Simpsons ever did.

same

10char

[Egon1982]

I'm officially past the point where people whining about The Simpsons annoys me way more than anything The Simpsons ever did.

It's just the show had it's time in the sun but should had died in 2001 to become a legendary show instead of a undead creature that's been shambling as it's been dead for a long time and that undead creature needs to be shot in the head.

I mean face it Leo656, everything i said is true and today we have Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty, Bob's Burgers and more being in The Simpsons tradition.

[Leo656]

More like, everything you said is an opinion which many people share, but not everyone, and some people completely don't care.

Like my own opinion that Bob's Burgers is terrible. We all got 'em!

Frankly, I haven't been in love with most of what I've seen in recent years from The Simpsons either, but I'm long past the point where I care enough to continually talk about it. Sometimes I watch it, sometimes I don't.

I can ignore the show; I can't ignore the constant whining about it, however, so at this point that's far more irritating to me.

[Wesley]

I'm officially past the point where people whining about The Simpsons annoys me way more than anything The Simpsons ever did.

Agreed. I thought it was actually still good until around the time the movie came out, though. I lost interest in the series after that. I’m indifferent to how the show has changed quality wise since then. Life is too short.

[ZariusTwo]

Like my own opinion that Bob's Burgers is terrible. We all got 'em!

The only reason I watch that show is for Louise and any episode with Rudy.

[Egon1982]

More like, everything you said is an opinion which many people share, but not everyone, and some people completely don't care.

Like my own opinion that Bob's Burgers is terrible. We all got 'em!

Frankly, I haven't been in love with most of what I've seen in recent years from The Simpsons either, but I'm long past the point where I care enough to continually talk about it. Sometimes I watch it, sometimes I don't.

I can ignore the show; I can't ignore the constant whining about it, however, so at this point that's far more irritating to me.

But since your the same age as me, don't you remember when they debuted on Tracy Ullman 32 years ago and when they debuted 30 years ago with that fantastic Christmas special episode and remember the glorious days of The Simpsons in the 90s with Simpsonsmania?

I do! oh it was glorious when The Simpsons was special and when it was something unique for it's mocking of the perfect family sitcoms of the time just like Married with Children was also anti-authority comedy before Simpsons came along.

I bet you remember the merchandise, the Burger King toys (I had a Bart doll from Burger King when i was 8 even some BK toys), i had some of the books like Bart's guide to life which is one of my favorite books, remember the Simpsons album (remember "Do The Bartman"?), the arcade game (I loved playing the hell out of that game at the arcades in my city and on my annual since 89 trips to Vegas), renting the video games, the merchandhise even t-shirts etc. I do and man oh man, what a time it was for The Simpsons before it became roadkill (meaning it had life at one time before it got ran over by Fox's car in late 2000 and it served it's purpose when it was alive and what's left after that is a decaying body that became reanimated by their scientists.

And don't you remember how smart and well done the humor was done with memorable brilliant quotes in The Simpsons (not Seasons 12 to now Zombie Simpsons) like on Bart Sells his Soul to touching heartfelt episodes like Lisa's Substitute, Mother Simpsons, Lisa on Ice etc.? which had emotion, heart and humanity even characters you cared about? i do, i do (doing my impression of that funny song "We do" from the Homer the Great episode being one of my favorite episodes).

Do you also remember when it had proper use of celebrities like Michael Jackson as an insane man who thinks he's Michael Jackson to Dustin Hoffman as Mr Bergstrom to even when it had celebrities themselves on my favorite episode Krusty Gets Kancelled? yup and this was before it was worshipping celebrities and the rich and embracing the culture than mocking it.

God, we both feel so old remembering our past with The Simpsons and how glorious it was. Yet when did you stopped watching the show? i stopped in 2003 like i said.

I mean we should cherish seasons 1 to 10 you know but 11 had it's moments like the Funzo episode and i think "Behind The Laughter" which is one of my favorite episodes should had been the last episode as it would had been a perfect closure to the series in 2000.

I see Behind The Laughter as the last truly “good” episode of the show. It has a lot of awesome parts in it–the “wing and a prayer” line is one of my favorite in the history of the series.

I think it’s very telling to note that they did this basically by not being The Simpsons. Not only do they adopt the format of a completely different show, but they basically throw all characterization out the window and sever their connection with the show’s past. They even have Homer saying “this is the last season,” and basically destroy the mystery of Springfield’s state. It’s like the show was saying goodbye. And of course, even though most of us didn’t stop watching at this point exactly, it does feel like an ending for most of us, doesn’t it?

A lot of the time when a show is good you guys will say how it would have fit in with one of the earlier, better seasons… but this one would not fit in anywhere else. In terms of quality, yes, it’s at the same level of season 9. But really, the episode works best as an ending, and I would say having come after so many mediocre episode helps it. It’s like the perfect goodbye episode, the sort-of series finale that is the closest we ever got to real closure on The Simpsons.

I sometimes imagine an alternate universe where they used this episode as a springboard to turn the show into something completely different. Throw out the old format and make a crazy show that was no longer centered on the family anymore. I think the show could POSSIBLY have been good for a few more years if they did this. Probably they would have failed, but at least it would have been an interesting failure, and maybe one that led to cancellation… rather than the lifeless crappy mediocrity we’ve had now for over a decade and counting.

Yet, do you feel that the show is too much of a 90s product to survive in the new millenium? i do and should had died with it's time. I mean, i see the Simpsons as a family of the 90s but then i heard when they changed the origins and all to stay relevant with "that 90s show", it just feels dishonest and not caring.

Bobs Burgers is decent, yet like i said Bojack Horseman is probably the closet thing to being in the spirit like classic The Simpsons with the same similar anti-hollywood satire, relatable characters, writing, intelligence and all.

Yet you glad King of the Hill, Futurama and Regular Show ended on good notes with final episodes that become zombies too? i do and they needed to end on good notes as they earned it. As yes, let's just pretend Simpsons ended in 2000 with "Behind The Laughter" and move on to enjoy other adult animation, cherish the good old days of The Simpsons season 1 to 10 with some season 11 episodes like the one i mentioned to remember when it was a special show and when it was a big thing on pop culture.

And i also hope this year we get seasons 1 to 3 on blu-ray.

[Leo656]

Yes, I remember. Apparently I just have more important things to get annoyed by.

Yes, The Simpsons morphed into a Family Guy clone when that became the more popular show. That's the business, what can I say? People prefer their "adult" cartoons to be more cynical and mean-spirited, with lots of celebrity gags. No, that's not The Simpsons, but again, business is business. Their job is creating content and keeping advertisers happy. And I am pretty sure they're not concerned with what anyone pushing 40 has to say, on account of we're really supposed to have better things to do than watch cartoons in the first place. Or cry about how they're not the same 30 years later.

I've made peace with it. I generally only have TV on in the background as I read, anyway, unless I'm watching a movie. Too passive. More of a video game guy. I can't just sit and watch TV anymore, I feel like I'm getting nothing done.

[Roseangelo]

Haha. That is so many words dedicated to a show you've lost interest in.

I agree with Leo656. I'm tired of how it's "cool" to hate on the Simpsons after <insert year of choice here>. People are just regurgitating the same opinion and that makes that opinion meaningless to me.

I like the Simpsons pretty fine from any year. I don't seek out watching it, but if it's on I'll keep it on.

[ZariusTwo]

The show has now been renewed for two further years

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/simpsons-scores-two-season-renewal-at-fox-1183289

[neatoman]

The show has now been renewed for two further years

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/simpsons-scores-two-season-renewal-at-fox-1183289

... 32 seasons...

[CyberCubed]

Why do they always say this:

The Simpsons is the first series to be renewed at Fox for the 2019-2020 broadcast season. The series long ago topped Gunsmoke and holds the record for the most number of a scripted series ever. By the end of its current 30th season, it will have aired more than 660 episodes

The Simpsons is far from the longest scripted series ever. There's tons of anime with more than 660 episodes. They should specify they're talking about western cartoons, and even then it depends if you count stuff that's constantly rebooted like all the Scooby Doo series, etc.

[Egon1982]

The show has now been renewed for two further years

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/simpsons-scores-two-season-renewal-at-fox-1183289

Fox needs to let this show go, it's no longer relevant in today's world compared to those shows i mentioned.

[Leo656]

And yet, a bunch of people must still watch it, for it to keep getting renewed. It's most likely not "irrelevant" to the advertisers. I doubt they keep it around for the sole purpose of annoying you. Although that would be pretty funny.

I'unno man. I hate "Big Bang", I don't watch it. I never even express my opinion of it unless someone asks. It's not important enough for me to worry about. Kinda think people should shuffle their priorities a bit if they feel annoyed that a show they don't watch still exists.

Besides, it's Fox. They'd just replace it with crap. Their non-Simpsons, non-Family Guy track record isn't great.

[ZariusTwo]

And yet, a bunch of people must still watch it


oWeS0M2L5Ok

[neatoman]

oWeS0M2L5Ok

"The bringer of beer"

... I'm sure that woos any woman.

[Leo656]

"The bringer of beer"

... I'm sure that woos any woman.

My wife seems to like it.

[Hamato Yoshi]

When was the grandpa bullfighting episode ?

"Taco Pronto" :lol:

[Egon1982]

Like i said the new adult animation shows are the new kings of adult animation as they are more relevant today while Fox is such a cancer to all networks for not letting Family Guy and Simpsons die when they should had and making them into reanimated zombies? i mean some great shows like Lucifer and Brooklyn which are well written were canned while they keep the rotting corpses of Family Guy and Simpsons on the air. All you have to do is stop watching Fox and that will send studios the message.

Yet anyone glad King of the Hill and Futurama ended when they needed to? i'm very happy and they didn't become zombies as they needed to rest in peace.

[Leo656]

Family Guy's the only thing on TV worth watching and has been for ages.

People say I'M joyless? Oof.

[Andrew NDB]

What's this, Azaria is stepping down as the voice of Apu? But... I thought they already cut Apu from the show? Did that just never happen?

https://www.darkhorizons.com/azaria-no-longer-voicing-apu-on-simpsons/

[Wildcat]

That sounds like they plan on doing something new with Apu but he can’t talk about it yet.

Still being offended by him is dumb. There’s other stereotypes on the show and besides it’s all in good fun.

The documentary was actually reasonable though. The guy wasn’t hating or anything. Some are just reading way too much into Apu.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, kind of looking like Apu might not go away at all. Just getting a new, presumably Indian voice actor.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/simpsons-family-guy-changing-voices/

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, kind of looking like Apu might not go away at all. Just getting a new, presumably Indian voice actor.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/simpsons-family-guy-changing-voices/

Five months between posts, so have they done anything yet or not?

[sdp]

lame, but they will do the same with the main simpsons cast eventually, Disney just got Simpsons, they aren't going to let go of one of the biggest properties that Fox owned. Simpsons died int he 90s, it's been a shadow of its former self ever since, there's still good episodes from time to time but they're just parodies of themselves at this point, the ship had already sailed for them to have an "ending" a long time ago that would give closure to the series.

Simpsons will be like those endless animes that have thousands of episodes. I guess we can still get excited about a new movie perhaps? New video games? Even if they'll be sanitized by Disney?

[Wildcat]

I knew they would not get rid of him. I think replacing voice actors just because they do not match the race of the characters is pretty dumb though.

Id say its more offensive to think characters should only be voiced by same race people. All characters should be available to voice actors.

Interested to see what happens to Cleveland on Family Guy. His voice could be imitated by someone else I guess but still pointless.

[Coola Yagami]

Not sure how a 'final episode' would even go. I just think whenever the series ends the last episode will feel more like a 'season finale' than a 'final episode of the overall series'. I mean they crossed the path to properly end it long ago. I think it'll be a case where it just ends and the voice actors and animators are surprised to find out that they're not coming back next season.

As for Disney, have the Simpsons been more sanitized since new episode came out? Like, is Homer still drinking and are Marge's sisters still smoking?

[Wildcat]

There was an episode where Patty and Selma stopped smoking and one struggled to quit. I think it was before Disney acquired it.

I seem to remember theyre still shown smoking on brief occasions though. Like for a quick joke. Unless Im thinking of something else.

Theres still drinking. Moes Tavern is still a primary location and character. Duffman still appears too.

Im a little surprised Family Guy would change anything. I mean its obvious theyre not afraid of criticism. Cleveland even had his own show. I know Seth MacFarlane stepped away as head or something but he still does voices. He mentioned he pretty much stopped leading things a long time ago.

[Zulithe]

If some of these voice actors on a personal level don't want to voice characters such as Apu or Cleveland anymore, it's understandable. But sending the message that people should only voice act as characters that match their ethnicity is a dark, dark path with a lot of implications. What happens when you have a minority voice actor and there aren't enough roles that fit what's acceptable for them to portray? That is totally the endgame of this line of thinking, and they should consider that carefully.

Oh, and let's just end The Simpsons already. I adore it but time to move on to some fresh and more relevant ideas.

[sdp]

Mixed opinions about VAs only being able to voice their race, I don't mind it much but I don't want to have VAs replaced it usually sucks, it also means we wouldn't have had James Avery as Shredder but I do like knowning future Shredders would be Japanese. I remember being disappointed that Katara's VA was white, but I don't want her replaced if her character appeared in a special or whatever.

Also it's never enough for people, now they want Apu to have a different profession, changing the VA is not enough.



As for Disney, have the Simpsons been more sanitized since new episode came out? Like, is Homer still drinking and are Marge's sisters still smoking?

they scrubbed from the internet the video they made with Lisa regarding the controversy, the Michael Jackson episode isn't on Disney +, I'm guessing they'll steer clear from controversial topics all around which is ironic counting the simpsons were meant to be controversial. I'm sure drinking beer won't be toned down but that's not controversial (though apparently disney is no longer licensing Duff beer stuff for shirts)

HBO Max also doesn't have some controversial South Park episodes, Ironic really.

[Sumac]

VA voicing only characters of their race is such an idiotic and retarded idea.
What next? Characters being played only by actors who had similar experience to them?
What part of being an "actor" those stupid milkshake and tendies filled leftards don't understand?

[Coola Yagami]

I can't wait for the day some company makes a game. show, cartoon or movie or whatever, that isn't owned by a major company that says 'this is how we're gonna make it and if you don't like it, tough tits', and stand by what they say.

Like don't add purposely offensive stuff, but the regular good ol' stuff that people should NOT get offended like tits, swearing and stereotypes. Have their mantra be something like 'if our latest episode doesn't piss off Twitter. we're doing it wrong'. And when outrage comes their way, the phrase 'idk, maybe we should listen to them' would be a fireable offense.

They can have all of my money. **** they can have my stimulus check. Just make it happen.

Just be super extra careful and screen all employees to make sure no one has any potential cancel culture/metoo skeletons, and make it happen.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I will always fight against nonsense like this.

It's in the name. Voice actor. You know, as in pretending to be someone you aren't. And this isn't like "Cleopatra" or something... it's people sitting in a chair getting their voice recorded, for ****'s sake.

[Leo656]

If we start making it a hard rule that only women can voice women and only men can voice men, then a lot of voice actors are f*cked.

Seriously, I literally just saw Tara Strong voice Young Clark Kent in "Red Son". If we can only have black people voicing black people, Indian people voicing Indian people, why do we have to stop there? How about only kids can voice kids? There's a bunch of reasons why they generally don't do that, from union rules to legal problems.

It's f*cking playing pretend. Jesus Christ, this is intolerable. Everything is racist, everything is assault, everything is offensive, and everyone is terrible. All because a very VERY vocal few - not even a "minority", like a small handful of people who if you went all over the world and rounded them all up they could maybe all fit in a single Denny's - have their goddamn skin on inside out.

Stupid. F*cking stupid.

[Galactus]

The Simpsons is already sanitised. Despite its drop in quality it's still essentially the same show that it was in the 90s except the world has changed around it and what was considered edgy and subversive back then seems completely normal now.

As for Apu...well the is racist. Whether it's egregiously so to the point that it needs correcting is up for debate but the whole joke is haha it's funny because he's Indian. Even the writers who came up with the character knew they were delving into iffy territory but felt it was worth the laugh and then spent the next few years trying to mitigate it by giving the character genuine depth.

I've made this point before but the show's handling of what amounts to mild criticism of the character has been extremely poor. I've not watched the show for years but did see the episode that one of Apu's Young relatives visits him (played by a real life Indian comedian) and against his wishes the ending of the episode was rewritten with the moral being that Apu's mock Indian traits are more authentic than the character played by an actual Indian. Dumb. Then there's the clap back to the Problem with Apu documentary. Talk of that movie had long since faded, why they felt the need to drag it up again I have no idea. If anything their poor response reignited the debate even more than before. In a way they brought this on themselves.

No one is saying that all VAs have to match the race/ethnicity or even gender of the character they are portraying but they made this an issue when it didn't need to be. Maybe to some it will make the character less funny but if the writing is good he'll still be funny. Of course there's the rub the show hasn't been funny in years.

[AquaParade]

I think this voice acting shakeup will pass like a trend. I'm not saying real change won't happen, but this one is unnecessary and comes across as a virtue signal or overreaction.

Voice acting jobs will slowly go back to A. Whoever is best for the job and B. Whoever actually takes the audition.

A lot of the time (not all) these job discrepancies come down to more than the people hiring just being prejudice. But if that isn't the case, I suppose the current trend will help. Either way, we'll be fine.

[Coola Yagami]

I think this voice acting shakeup will pass like a trend. I'm not saying real change won't happen, but this one is unnecessary and comes across as a virtue signal or overreaction.

Voice acting jobs will slowly go back to A. Whoever is best for the job and B. Whoever actually takes the audition.

A lot of the time (not all) these job discrepancies come down to more than the people hiring just being prejudice. But if that isn't the case, I suppose the current trend will help. Either way, we'll be fine.

The only problem is that sometimes companies would rather waste the extra time trying to find 'best one for the job as long as they're -blank-' rather than 'best one for the job, period' just to appease these people. It's like say.... Domino from Deadpool 2, don't tell me they were casting women in general for the role as long as they could act the part, naw they had their minds made up on casting a black woman for the role and were probably only auditioning black women.

I wouldn't call Apu racist... he's a stereotype, and stereotypes are based on facts but exaggerated for comedic purposes. The Simpsons go over the top of course, but there are some people out there that act like -insert Simpsons character here-. In Apu's case, I used to live in an area where nearly everyone that worked in a Circle K, AM/PM or a 7-11 talked just like he did, unironically. I mean, yeah I've been in some where the owners were not of Indian descent, but I've been in enough to know where the stereotype came from. Like, what do you do there? Plan a masswide firing of all Indians working in these kinds of stores so that the ones that don't work there don't feel offended?

Like what's next? Fire all Hispanic housemaids so that the Hispanics that have never worked at that kind of job don't feel stereotyped and offended? Ban all rap music so that the black people that don't listen to rap don't feel stereotyped and offended? Ban all Starbucks so the white folks that have never set foot in one won't feel stereotyped and offended? Like where does it end?

[Wildcat]

I agree the voice acting thing will calm down. I did not mean to imply it would blow up. Simpsons, and now Family Guy are the only ones doing it right?

I also agree The Simpsons are still the same. Not sanitized but its remained consistent in tone and humor all this time. I keep saying this. Not just here.

I honestly and genuinely still enjoy the modern seasons. Imo the humor is fun, storylines are well thought out (for running so long). Plus the art/animation is quite vibrant and clean. I know its HD but still noticeably improved.

I think people glorify the old seasons because it was new then and they grew up with it hitting its peak. They probably stopped watching when they lost interest.

[JonesyKitty]

I agree the voice acting thing will calm down. I did not mean to imply it would blow up. Simpsons, and now Family Guy are the only ones doing it right?
.

Dreamworks did this a few years back. When they bought out VeggieTales they completely cut the character and voice actor of Mr.Nezzer. Apparently Dreamworks either has or had a rule about voice actors not being allowed to do impressions of different races.
Basically the character was cut because he was voiced by a white guy doing an impression of Oogie Boogie from The Nightmare Before Christmas. Oogie Boogie is of course played by Ken Page. It wasn't even that he was trying to do a black voice, but he was a white guy doing an impression of a character played by a black man and that didn't fly with Dreamworks.

So you fired an actor and cut a cartoon pickle because when they came up with his voice they decided to make it sound like a cartoon sack of bugs. Neither character are considered any particular race as far as I am aware. I always just assumed it was the same person doing the voice for both characters until I read about it. It's like the guy who plays King Candy from Wreck it Ralph just doing an impression of the guy who played the Mad Hatter. He's just doing an impression of another character.

Does it make it wrong for me to do an Oogie Boogie voice when my kid wants to pretend he is Jack? Or when I do Jaleal White Sonic while reading the Archie comics to him at night?

Question regarding Family Guy though. Are
There other black characters that were played by white actors being cut? I don't honestly know a whole lot about the cast aside from a few main characters. Were Cleveland's family played by white actors?

[Sumac]

I hope SJWism dies as quickly as possible.
This **** damages culture and media so much, like bunch of worthless angry locusts, devouring everything in its path.

[CyberCubed]

There aren't many black main characters in Simpsons. Just Dr. Hibert, Carl, and uh....who else? The Mike Tyson parody character who doesn't show up anymore?

[neatoman]

Janey, Lisa's friend that the writers pretend doesn't exist whenever they do a "Lisa has no friends" episode. Which is quite a lot.

Lou, the cop who usually points out Wiggum's flaws.

Bleeding Gums Murphy, but he died early on.

The Judge, though he's not always black.

[CyberCubed]

Forgot about Lou, but he's the only other one that appears regularly.

[Xav]

The Mike Tyson parody character who doesn't show up anymore?Drederick Tatum is still on the show. He literally showed up in the last episode that aired.

[Galactus]

If the worst SJW-ism does is a reshuffle a few cast members around in a show hardly anyone cares about anymore than it's hardly comparable to a swarm of locusts destroying everything it their path.

Like I said the show brought this on themselves. They could have responded to Hari Kondubalu's documentary in any way they wanted. They could have simply recast Apu (since Hank Azaria suggested that himself), they could had him change the voice to be less stereotypical, they could have added more poc characters voiced by actual poc. Hell they didn't need to do anything at all. It's THE SIMPSONS they could have just ignored it and it would have been fine. Aside from a few think pieces The Problem with Apu didn't make much of an impact on the wider conversation so they could have easily just ignored it.

It was their downright weird response a year after the documentary that made this explode to the the point that they now feel the need to over correct.

[DarkFell]

Leave it to a social fad to demolish another decent character. As for Apu, I liked that guy.

I take it that BumbleBee Man was taken off as well since he parodied El Chapulin Colorado?

https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Bumblebee_Man

[Coola Yagami]

If the worst SJW-ism does is a reshuffle a few cast members around in a show hardly anyone cares about anymore than it's hardly comparable to a swarm of locusts destroying everything it their path.

Like I said the show brought this on themselves. They could have responded to Hari Kondubalu's documentary in any way they wanted. They could have simply recast Apu (since Hank Azaria suggested that himself), they could had him change the voice to be less stereotypical, they could have added more poc characters voiced by actual poc. Hell they didn't need to do anything at all. It's THE SIMPSONS they could have just ignored it and it would have been fine. Aside from a few think pieces The Problem with Apu didn't make much of an impact on the wider conversation so they could have easily just ignored it.

It was their downright weird response a year after the documentary that made this explode to the the point that they now feel the need to over correct.

Naw the little Apu joke was fine, they should have just left it at that, ignored any further criticism and kept on going. Hell, Azaria shouldn't have even offered to change his voice or cast someone else. The Simpsons was supposed to be an edgey offensive show to begin with. If people were offended, boo-hoo, turn the TV off, and let them continue on with the show.

[Andrew NDB]

If the worst SJW-ism does is a reshuffle a few cast members around in a show hardly anyone cares about anymore than it's hardly comparable to a swarm of locusts destroying everything it their path.

It sets a precedent for Twitter whiners and/or SJWs. "We can make a difference! Just look at the Simpsons and Cleveland!" etc..

Though yes, they didn't need to do anything at all. They shouldn't have done anything at all. Not even a statement, not a glance in the rearview, nothing.

[Sumac]

If the worst SJW-ism does is a reshuffle a few cast members around in a show hardly anyone cares about anymore than it's hardly comparable to a swarm of locusts destroying everything it their path.
Have you been in the bunker in the last few months?
Because, SJWs, sadly, got their ugly paws in many many things, not only probably the most famous cartoon series.

[Galactus]

Naw the little Apu joke was fine, they should have just left it at that, ignored any further criticism and kept on going. Hell, Azaria shouldn't have even offered to change his voice or cast someone else. The Simpsons was supposed to be an edgey offensive show to begin with. If people were offended, boo-hoo, turn the TV off, and let them continue on with the show.

I tend to think Azaria felt genuinely upset that so many people of Indian and other South East Asian descent had such negative life experiences based on the Apu character.

I'm not sure the Simpsons was ever supposed to be offensive. It's edgy in the same way a Washington Post political cartoon is edgy. It's supposed to be wry and smart and that a response a year after everyone had forgotten about The Problem with Apu was anything but. It wasn't even a clap it basically saying; well you kinda have a point but we don't know an easy way to fix it so we not going to bother.

I hate to belabor the point if they had not come up with such a poor response there would not have such a backlash that coupled with recent real world events wouldn't have forced the show to do what I think most of us would agree to be over correction.

It sets a precedent for Twitter whiners and/or SJWs. "We can make a difference! Just look at the Simpsons and Cleveland!" etc..

Though yes, they didn't need to do anything at all. They shouldn't have done anything at all. Not even a statement, not a glance in the rearview, nothing.

But it's perfectly fine for twitter whiners to get the Snyder cut released? Let's be honest there is also a vague political motivation for that too. For all the people who genuinely liked what Synder movies (hello Leo and your 9 or so friends) the main reason it has a lot of support is they believe the Marvel movies are all liberal and indoctrinating the kids to liberal values and feminizing and all that **** thus we need to support the alternative.

[AquaParade]

But it's perfectly fine for twitter whiners to get the Snyder cut released? Let's be honest there is also a vague political motivation for that too. For all the people who genuinely liked what Synder (hello Leo and your 9 or so friends) the main reason is the Marvel movies are all liberal and indoctrinating the kids to liberal values and feminizing and all that **** thus we need to support the alternative.

WoOoah.

:teek:

[TurtleTitan97]

But it's perfectly fine for twitter whiners to get the Snyder cut released? Let's be honest there is also a vague political motivation for that too. For all the people who genuinely liked what Synder (hello Leo and your 9 or so friends) the main reason is the Marvel movies are all liberal and indoctrinating the kids to liberal values and feminizing and all that **** thus we need to support the alternative.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e1f99a78eadb00b36cca7dfa3d1ec1ea/tenor.gif?itemid=11369038

[Galactus]

I think I may have escalated things here.

[Sumac]

I tend to think Azaria felt genuinely upset that so many people of Indian and other South East Asian descent had such negative life experiences based on the Apu character.
Maybe it should backwards?
Because, I seriously doubt anyone had their life ruined because of a character in satire cartoon.

But it's perfectly fine for twitter whiners to get the Snyder cut released? Let's be honest there is also a vague political motivation for that too. For all the people who genuinely liked what Synder movies (hello Leo and your 9 or so friends) the main reason it has a lot of support is they believe the Marvel movies are all liberal and indoctrinating the kids to liberal values and feminizing and all that **** thus we need to support the alternative.
I think you are high and need to take some rest. Also, stop drinking SJW kool-aid, it makes you stupid.

People wanted for Snyder-cut to be realized, because, original version was a trash. That's all there is to it. Also, if you think that anyone seriously expected it (or DC movies in general) to be an antithesis of the Marvel SJW friendly movies, you are delusional and definitely need to take a rest from leftard juice.

[Galactus]

Maybe it should backwards?
Because, I seriously doubt anyone had their life ruined because of a character in satire

No one is saying that their lives were ruined by Apu but childhood bullying can stick with people into adulthood. Then there is Indian actors who have been turned down for roles because they didn't sound like Apu or making them sound like the character. It does show that this character had a big impact on how Indian people are perceived.

People wanted for Snyder-cut to be realized, because, original version was a trash. That's all there is to it. Also, if you think that anyone seriously expected it (or DC movies in general) to be an antithesis of the Marvel SJW friendly movies, you are delusional and definitely need to take a rest from leftard juice.

I'm genuinely happy that people who enjoyed Snyder's vision for the DCEU get to see a version of his Justice League realised. However it is true that the movement was propped up to some degree by people who simply don't like the Marvel movies because they perceive them to be spreading a 'liberal agenda' and spread conspiracy theories that Disney pays off critics and buying all the tickets to Captain Marvel etc.

[Leo656]

Wow, man, I always thought you were one of the better ones, and here you go taking cheap shots. What a shame. I do like knowing who the assholes are, but I'm always disappointed whenever it's someone I thought better of. :ohwell:

You're also a liar, since as I've pointed out before, MoS and BvS were both in the Top 20 Selling DVD and Blu-ray chart for several years, so "me and my 9 friends" must've bought a ton of copies each. I have... one each. :lol: Either my "friends" have been busy or you're just flat-out wrong. I wonder......

Obligatory "Literally millions of people like Zack's movies, they're just quiet about it because they don't like getting roped into arguments with sh*theads" Post Here. Thank you for once again proving my point with your unsolicited snarky jabs.

You're not "happy" for anyone or you wouldn't have bothered taking cheap shots, especially not calling someone out by name. Sorry someone put a bug in your ass, but kindly find more productive ways of dealing with it. Next time you "summon" me it had better be for a good reason.

Sigh. The people here disappoint me often, but surprise me never. C'est la vie.

[Sumac]

No one is saying that their lives were ruined by Apu but childhood bullying can stick with people into adulthood. Then there is Indian actors who have been turned down for roles because they didn't sound like Apu or making them sound like the character. It does show that this character had a big impact on how Indian people are perceived.
How or why character in a satire cartoon, where all characters are basically stereotypes and idiots can lead to bullying? By this logic all white people should be bullied because in the show most of them portrayed as fools.

Its basically "violent video games make people violent" or "if kids see sexy women in comic books they will become rapists" logic. And about actors...puh-lease. Actors are playing roles. Key word: playing. You don't need to be from India to play a person from India, as well, as you don't need to be white to voice a white character.

Would you rise this issue about FW Shredder who was voiced by a black actor? Should we collectively cry about "countless Asian actors" who were passed on this role?

I'm genuinely happy that people who enjoyed Snyder's vision for the DCEU get to see a version of his Justice League realised. However it is true that the movement was propped up to some degree by people who simply don't like the Marvel movies because they perceive them to be spreading a 'liberal agenda' and spread conspiracy theories that Disney pays off critics and buying all the tickets to Captain Marvel etc.
Man. Mate. Bro. Please, don't go full retard.

Do you really think anyone in their right mind can watch DC movies and think of them as anti-SJW compared to Marvel? :lol:

Also, it is well known that Disney and other big coproRATions are buying reviews. So, not really sure where is conspiracy in that.

Yes, to certain degree Snyder's cut is a win for the anti-SJW anti-censorship people, which is why journasluts went after WB and their fanbase, because, it goes against their narrative and they hate losing.

However, genesis of the Snyder's cut was WB desire to prop their own streaming service and not because they want to appease people who disliked OG cut or because they want to pander to anti-Marvel people. This is big business and most of the time it doesn't work to please fans.

[Leo656]

I think if Indian people were gonna raise hell about Apu being a poor representation of them, they missed the part where most of them actually sound much more like his brother Sanjay. In my experience more of them have a bit of a higher pitch in their voice.

.....What? :lol: It's merely an observation. I only worked with a few thousand of them over 10+ years, I'm not allowed to point out things I notice? Show me the rule, ump!

Perhaps Apu is a bit outdated. If the show was in development today he'd most likely design software or do IT, and he'd have lots of money and drive a BMW. At least if he lived around here. :lol:

[Galactus]

Wow, man, I always thought you were one of the better ones, and here you go taking cheap shots. What a shame. I do like knowing who the assholes are, but I'm always disappointed whenever it's someone I thought better of. :ohwell:

I meant that you are one of the 10 or so people that liked Zack Snyder's DC's work. It was a poor attempt at a joke knowing you are the most well known and prolific defender of Zack's DCEU work. I apoligise.

You're also a liar, since as I've pointed out before, MoS and BvS were both in the Top 20 Selling DVD and Blu-ray chart for several years, so "me and my 9 friends" must've bought a ton of copies each. I have... one each. :lol: Either my "friends" have been busy or you're just flat-out wrong. I wonder......

Obligatory "Literally millions of people like Zack's movies, they're just quiet about it because they don't like getting roped into arguments with sh*theads" Post Here. Thank you for once again proving my point with your unsolicited snarky jabs.

You're not "happy" for anyone or you wouldn't have bothered taking cheap shots, especially not calling someone out by name. Sorry someone put a bug in your ass, but kindly find more productive ways of dealing with it. Next time you "summon" me it had better be for a good reason.

Sigh. The people here disappoint me often, but surprise me never. C'est la vie.

I appreciate that the DCEU is something you are very passionate about debating it has caused fall outs with people on here in the past so I should have known better than to make a joke about that. Still, I don't think it's lying at all to say that Snyder's vision for the DCEU just did not resonate with the public. It's hardly surprising that movies about the two biggest and most iconic super heroes in history were financially successful. Heck we've been discussing Joel Scumacher's Batman & Robin and it was mentioned that movie was a commercial success too and shifted a ton of merchandise. From a financial perspective there was zero reason to not to make a followup in the same vein except they (as I recall you put it) "read the room" which is exactly what WB did after the response to Batman v Superman.

The fact that it's done well on home media doesn't really mean much to me either. After all people are now burning and smashing their copies of Justice League. They bought it because they are collectors, fans of the director and various actors, to support the brand, the universe, their favourite characters etc. Now they are getting the 'real' version of the movie their trashing the one they bought. Their purchase can't have ever meant much.

Also this isn't really about Zack Snyder. His work isn't for me but he's a talented film maker I just don't think he's right for movies based on the DC stable of characters. Ironically I've avoided debating with you on the subject because I know it's something that has caused you grief in the past and you had enough people telling you you're wrong for liking these movies. I should have known better to bring your name into - again I apoligise.

Perhaps a better example to make my point would be...say Comicsgate. If you watched all the comicsgate youtubers back in the day it was clear that at least half the supportive comments were from people who didn't actually read comics but they saw a fledgling movement that intersected with their own and propped it up to achieve the wider political goals and it worked. They got Marvel to reverse coarse on a lot of creative decisions they disapproved of - including some which were financially successful for the company.

Bitching and moaning on social media does work. Sometimes it should/sometimes it shouldn't. I've made clear were I stand on the Apu issue but I'm with everyone else that recasting all the voices of non white characters is an extreme over reaction but all that bitching and moaning that caused it was because The Simpsons did a weird clap back. Perhaps the only distinction I'd draw from this and something like comicsgate is that all the people bitching and moaning about Apu actually believe in what they are saying.

How or why character in a satire cartoon, where all characters are basically stereotypes and idiots can lead to bullying? By this logic all white people should be bullied because in the show most of them portrayed as fools.

The flaw with that argument is that the white characters are not portrayed as dumb simply because they are...yellow I guess.

Would you rise this issue about FW Shredder who was voiced by a black actor? Should we collectively cry about "countless Asian actors" who were passed on this role?

If Shredder was portrayed as a Japanese stereotype I might but he isn't.

Also, it is well known that Disney and other big coproRATions are buying reviews. So, not really sure where is conspiracy in that.

If that's true then why don't WB do it for their DC movies? Disney don't have to buy the illusion of popularity they've perfected the art of making something which will be ultra popular.

Yes, to certain degree Snyder's cut is a win for the anti-SJW anti-censorship people, which is why journasluts went after WB and their fanbase, because, it goes against their narrative and they hate losing.

However, genesis of the Snyder's cut was WB desire to prop their own streaming service and not because they want to appease people who disliked OG cut or because they want to pander to anti-Marvel people. This is big business and most of the time it doesn't work to please fans.

The Snyder DCEU movies aren't really political (although there is some interesting undercurrents in Man of Steel) but the fact you and anyone else thinks that releasing the Snyder cut is a win for 'anti-SJW' people shows that these movies have become emblematic for something political.

Companies don't do anything other than to make money and they saw the amount of people that were still demanding the Snyder cut and felt they could make money, sure. Would that movement still be going if the numbers hadn't been propped up by people who wanted to stick to the MCU out of the weird belief that they are somehow emblematic of SJW politics? I'm not sure.

[ChosenOne]

Apu actually enhanced my childhood. It was my first contact with an ethnical minority that is only now becoming commonplace in my country and around the particular region where I live, and which I very much respect. Anyone bitching about the character's accent or the fact that he isn't voiced by an Indian actor (just one of the best comedic actors of our time, but hey, who cares, right?) should stop judging books by their cover and actually watch some episodes of The Simpsons focused on Apu. What matters more, the color of his skin and his accent and his religion and whatnot, or the fact that he is (was...) consistently portrayed as a decent human being? Man, I can't even...

What's next? They're gonna bitch about Kang and Kodo's voice actors too?

[Sumac]

Perhaps a better example to make my point would be...say Comicsgate. If you watched all the comicsgate youtubers back in the day it was clear that at least half the supportive comments were from people who didn't actually read comics but they saw a fledgling movement that intersected with their own and propped it up to achieve the wider political goals and it worked. They got Marvel to reverse coarse on a lot of creative decisions they disapproved of - including some which were financially successful for the company.
Still better than movement that wants to censor comic books.

The flaw with that argument is that the white characters are not portrayed as dumb simply because they are...yellow I guess.
That's not an answer.

If Shredder was portrayed as a Japanese stereotype I might but he isn't.
Most of the characters who are about to be "canceled" or recasted are not stereotypes either.

If that's true then why don't WB do it for their DC movies? Disney don't have to buy the illusion of popularity they've perfected the art of making something which will be ultra popular.
Maybe WB has some sort of professional integrity?
And, besides, when companies see they have an obvious stinker on their hands, they let reviewers to give they real thoughts about the product. Like in case of Rise of the Skywalker, since one thing is manufacture opinion when the movie is just divisive, like The Last Jedi or Captain Marvel and another, is trying to pretend that pile of **** is a diamond. If, say, 80% say that movie is bad, no amount of good reviews will salvage it. It's just a waste of money. Word of mouth will sink it anyway.

The Snyder DCEU movies aren't really political (although there is some interesting undercurrents in Man of Steel) but the fact you and anyone else thinks that releasing the Snyder cut is a win for 'anti-SJW' people shows that these movies have become emblematic for something political.
MCU movies are not outright political either, no more than any other standard Hollywood fare.

Also, it was not anti-SJW crowd which "made" Snyder's cut into something "political". It were journasluts who have started crying that it helps "alt-right", because, coproRATions obviously should follow the party line and not pander to common folk.

If left propagandists would've stayed silent and didn't start drama on the empty place - most people wouldn't really care about it one way or the other.

Also, what little part of people on Internet think, doesn't really indicate anything about the project. Unless you want propose that AT&T / WB is ruled by "alt-right", but this is so hilarious stupid, that I hope you won't go into that direction.

Companies don't do anything other than to make money and they saw the amount of people that were still demanding the Snyder cut and felt they could make money, sure. Would that movement still be going if the numbers hadn't been propped up by people who wanted to stick to the MCU out of the weird belief that they are somehow emblematic of SJW politics? I'm not sure.
You need to stop listening to Alex Jones.

How about assuming that a lot of people wanted to get a GOOD MOVIE? Also, thinking that DC is somehow less SJW than a Marvel is hilarious.

[Galactus]

Still better than movement that wants to censor comic books.

There isn't a movement to censor comics. What comicsgate was against was what they saw as 'forced diversity' and writers pushing what they saw as a liberal agenda and used the argument that it was hurting sales.

The irony is that the reason Marvel went down that route was because they hit three home runs in a row with Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and Jane Foster-Thor. They saw those successes particularly in mediums like trade and digital which made them more money and wanted more of the same.


Most of the characters who are about to be "canceled" or recasted are not stereotypes either.

They didn't need to be recast them. Literally no one was asking for that but after the show badly botched their response to nuanced and mild criticisms that resulted from Konubalu's documentary they obviously felt they needed a big gesture to correct the ship.

Maybe WB has some sort of professional integrity?
And, besides, when companies see they have an obvious stinker on their hands, they let reviewers to give they real thoughts about the product. Like in case of Rise of the Skywalker, since one thing is manufacture opinion when the movie is just divisive, like The Last Jedi or Captain Marvel and another, is trying to pretend that pile of **** is a diamond. If, say, 80% say that movie is bad, no amount of good reviews will salvage it. It's just a waste of money. Word of mouth will sink it anyway.

If I recall The Last Jedi got good reviews. The movie is not my cup of tea but I can see why critics liked it. It's basically an auteur movie from a franchise which after The Force Awakens was looking like a manufactured product. The movie wasn't for me but I actually respect the gutsyness.

Captain Marvel wasn't really divisive. It was an above average movie that got above average reviews. The only divisive part was that so many people took umbridge with a superhero movie about a womz that they lost their **** over it and started making up conspiracy theories that Disney bought all the tickets and that it was playing to empty theaters.

No one corporation (or as you call the corpoRATions) has that level professional integrity. Disney/Marvel/Pixar doesn't buy good reviews it simply knows how to make movies that appeal to a mass audience.

Granted the ubiquity of movies from the above studios does help shape the perception of what is considered good film making but what works...well works. Deviate from that you'd better know you're doing.

MCU movies are not outright political either, no more than any other standard Hollywood fare.

Also, it was not anti-SJW crowd which "made" Snyder's cut into something "political". It were journasluts who have started crying that it helps "alt-right", because, coproRATions obviously should follow the party line and not pander to common folk.

If left propagandists would've stayed silent and didn't start drama on the empty place - most people wouldn't really care about it one way or the other.

Also, what little part of people on Internet think, doesn't really indicate anything about the project. Unless you want propose that AT&T / WB is ruled by "alt-right", but this is so hilarious stupid, that I hope you won't go into that direction.

There's many reasons why it's ended up this way. Firstly brand loyalty is a big thing to comic books whether you're DC or Marvel. That's when you get people defending to the death movies they feel aren't really good because it's their team. Notice when Joss Whedon signed on to Justice League a lot of people who had spent years saying that DC movies had more integrity than the brainless Marvel movies were actually Joss was coming aboard to to correct the ship...then when that didn't work they were back to wanting this mythical Snyder (which didn't even exist).

No one is suggesting that the alt-right has taken control of Warner Bros. What I am suggesting is that the movement to get the Snyder cut released was propped up by people who have little interest in it other than they feel Marvel is all SJW hence why it also got coverage on certain websites and certain youtubers were obsessed with it and thinks that a win for the the distinguished competition knocks Marvel.

I'm not really sure it actually happening is a win for that crowd though. It's not suddenly going to replace the Whedon version as movie canon (such as that counts) as it's likely going to get Flashpointed into something more palatable to a mainstream audience for good or ill Ava Duvarney is still going to make that New Gods movie and everyone is going to have to deal with that.

[sdp]

I'm just sad that to me this is just another nail in the coffin of the Simpsons, now no longer is it a shadow of its former self but now they're replacing VAs we love to for social points, so now catching a new episode casually will be even worse. This also sets the precedent that they'll replace all the Simpsons cast eventually. The Simpsons were about controversy not bending over.

[Sage Ninja]

SJWs and redpilled people are cut from the same cloth of ****. **** them both.

To be honest I am so done with the extreme polarized Liberal/Conservative shenanigans at this point.

[Reinako666]

I like Apu. One of my all time favorites.

[Coola Yagami]

Captain Marvel wasn't really divisive. It was an above average movie that got above average reviews. The only divisive part was that so many people took umbridge with a superhero movie about a womz that they lost their **** over it and started making up conspiracy theories that Disney bought all the tickets and that it was playing to empty theaters.



Lies and slander. No one had a problem with a female lead. They just don't like Captain Marvel. Not that hard to understand. There is so such issue with the Wonder Woman movie nor the upcoming Black Widow movie, so *GASP* perhaps the issue is with Captain Marvel herself?

[Leo656]

Are people seriously blind to the fact that Disney flat-out owns - or at least has a stake in - most of the websites and magazines that in turn "review" their projects? Yeah, I'm totally sure that people being fed from The Mouse's table are nothing but totally objective. :roll:

They don't have to "buy reviews" when they already pay the people who write them. You don't bite the hand that feeds, that's simple common sense. BUT, it's also why critical reviews should ALWAYS be taken with a lot of salt because on some level everything is spin.

Furthermore, DID YOU KNOW that many movie critics don't even watch the movies they review, no matter who's paying them? It's true! It's not true in all cases but definitely in many cases, especially with "blockbusters" like Star Wars and super-hero stuff. It's extremely rare that most of the critics actually sit and watch the entire movie. You can tell who did and who didn't by what they actually say IN their reviews, but let's be honest, nobody reads the reviews, they just look at the star rating and decide if they're gonna go or not. But if you DO read the reviews, you can usually tell which critics actually saw the movie and who didn't.

Sounds totally untoward, but it's standard practice in the industry. What happens is, critics get a Press Kit with a pamphlet, some still photos from the biggest action scenes, and a summary of the plot with maybe a few of the story beats gone over in detail. They generally watch SOME of the movie but rarely stay for the entire thing. Often, they duck out about halfway through and write the "review" based on what they did see combined with what's in the press kit. And again, if you read the reviews, you can generally tell who did this because a lot of the reviews will be almost word-for-word the same without adding any extra details, and they all follow a generally predetermined consensus.

Apparently, this practice came about as something of a compromise when movies began to almost exclusively only be "blockbusters". Most "serious" critics hate blockbusters and "cape sh*t" movies to begin with and don't want to even watch them, let alone review them, but their opinions hold value among the audience so they kind of "have" to see and review them, because most people only go see movies if they're told by a trusted critic that they should (keep in mind everyone SAYS they're a free thinker but most of those people are lying). At some point, there was a compromise put forth where as long as the critic showed up to the movie and watched SOME of it, they'd be allowed to write the rest of the review based on the press kit. So now that's mostly what happens. Very, VERY few critic reviews of "blockbuster" movies were written by people who'd seen them in their entirety, and furthermore, they - like most of the audience - knew based on the trailer whether they were going to be Positive or Negative before they even sat down in the theater.

Not to bring this up again or make it a crusade, but simply to reinforce the point, BvS was not-so-secretly a victim of this very practice. Several critics who were at the premiere said that most of the others ducked out early to write the review based on the pamphlet, and knew 20 minutes in that they were going to bash it, and were all making a big joke about it. Many of them were saying BEFORE they sat down that they couldn't wait to write a scathing, snarky review based on the trailers alone. The movie was set up to fail from the jump, which is why the RT score is junk; most of those critics didn't watch it. Not trying to belabor the point, just saying, the practice happens, and that movie was a very famous example. Maybe those same critics would have been just as harsh if they HAD watched the full movie, but they didn't watch the full movie, so if you don't take their "reviews" with a giant shaker of salt, that's foolish.

So here's what we know for facts:
- Disney owns a ton of the media outlets that "report" on and review movies, from magazines to websites.
- Many critics don't actually watch the movies they review, they go by what's in the press kit, their gut feelings about the trailers, and whatever their boss wants them to write.

So yeah, Disney doesn't have to literally "buy reviews" or even buy out theaters to nudge things their way; enough shady sh*t happens that they don't even need to be so blatant about things, they have enough in their favor already without going full-blown super-villain.

They also sabotage plenty of movies by telling theaters not to run their competitors' movies as often, or at all, by threatening to withhold Marvel and Star Wars, which is trash of them to do. So they're already guilty of plenty.

These are facts, Things That Actually Happen, and not "conspiracy theories", so I'unno why anyone would defend them or try and brush it off. Objectively, we should all be pretty outraged about it. BUT, most reviews and such still generally fit in with popular consensus, and everyone likes being told what they want to hear, so nobody cares as much as they should. But again, these are very real, very dishonest, very shady things that are Standard Practice in the industry all the same, so... no need for "conspiracy theories" when, if anything, the truth is probably a lot worse than that.

[Andrew NDB]

A joke article, of course... but... lol...

https://babylonbee.com/news/to-promote-inclusivity-hollywood-actors-pledge-never-to-take-a-role-where-they-have-to-pretend-to-be-someone-theyre-not?fbclid=IwAR0ASSCKM4IkoBNV50R4qqdgaatQQEQyI4gov N6OE5E5lynY0nN3kVqNMVo

[Sumac]

There isn't a movement to censor comics. What comicsgate was against was what they saw as 'forced diversity' and writers pushing what they saw as a liberal agenda and used the argument that it was hurting sales.
And against censorship too, though reasons you mentioned are more important.
Also, it is hurting sales. Maybe it is not a deciding factor, but constant mud bath given to comic book fans by media, does turn away a lot of people.

The irony is that the reason Marvel went down that route was because they hit three home runs in a row with Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and Jane Foster-Thor. They saw those successes particularly in mediums like trade and digital which made them more money and wanted more of the same.
I think there was a significant amount of time between those three characters.

They didn't need to be recast them. Literally no one was asking for that but after the show badly botched their response to nuanced and mild criticisms that resulted from Konubalu's documentary they obviously felt they needed a big gesture to correct the ship.
Or they could just don't give a **** in the first place.
Otherwise, they've just summoned Streisand effect.

If I recall The Last Jedi got good reviews. The movie is not my cup of tea but I can see why critics liked it. It's basically an auteur movie from a franchise which after The Force Awakens was looking like a manufactured product. The movie wasn't for me but I actually respect the gutsyness.
IMO, TLJ is like the farthest thing from being an auteur movie.
Its basically standard sterile modern Hollywood blockbuster with big action set pieces tied by incoherent plot and cardboard characters.

The only way it might look like its trying to do something new is because it is not an outright clone of Empire Strikes Back, but that's hardly a compliment.

Everything that TLJ does to "subvert" expectations ends up being subverted in the movie itself, resulting in ideological cluster****, where it is completely unknown what the **** the movie was trying to say and for what purpose.

The only think, that is without a doubt auteur about this movie is an arrogance and pompousness of its creator.

Also, I am not talking about reviews from media. Those sell-outs gonna praise a piece of ****, if Disney pay them enough.

Captain Marvel wasn't really divisive. It was an above average movie that got above average reviews. The only divisive part was that so many people took umbridge with a superhero movie about a womz that they lost their **** over it and started making up conspiracy theories that Disney bought all the tickets and that it was playing to empty theaters.
How come almost no-one had an issue with Wonder Woman?
Stop drinking ****** left kool-aid. Its not about women. Its about narrative Disney / Marvel were pushing.

There's many reasons why it's ended up this way. Firstly brand loyalty is a big thing to comic books whether you're DC or Marvel. That's when you get people defending to the death movies they feel aren't really good because it's their team. Notice when Joss Whedon signed on to Justice League a lot of people who had spent years saying that DC movies had more integrity than the brainless Marvel movies were actually Joss was coming aboard to to correct the ship...then when that didn't work they were back to wanting this mythical Snyder (which didn't even exist).

No one is suggesting that the alt-right has taken control of Warner Bros. What I am suggesting is that the movement to get the Snyder cut released was propped up by people who have little interest in it other than they feel Marvel is all SJW hence why it also got coverage on certain websites and certain youtubers were obsessed with it and thinks that a win for the the distinguished competition knocks Marvel.

I'm not really sure it actually happening is a win for that crowd though. It's not suddenly going to replace the Whedon version as movie canon (such as that counts) as it's likely going to get Flashpointed into something more palatable to a mainstream audience for good or ill Ava Duvarney is still going to make that New Gods movie and everyone is going to have to deal with that.
Josh Whedon is a sellout. He'll say whatever would be the most lucrative to him at the moment.
And I say mixing alt-right into this is a hilarious misunderstanding.
No, Snyder's cut is definitely a win for everyone. Especially after journasluts said everyone who support are "evil white people".

[ZariusTwo]

We have a new voice for Carl

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54292939

[frank_one]

Alex Desert! Julio Mendez from The Flash (1990 TV series).

[Leo656]

Jesus, STAAAAAHHHHHHHP!

I do like that actor, though, but c'mon already. Enough is Too Much. They're cartoons!

[neatoman]

I've been thinking, do you think the producers are actually doing this kind of thing to covertly phase out all the elderly actors with cheaper ones, with the "social issues" being little more than a cover story?

Nancy Cartwright, Kelsey Grammer, Joe Mantegna, Harry Shearer, Dan Castellaneta, Julie Kavner, Pamela Hayden, Tress MacNeille and Albert Brooks are all over 60 and take up a signifigant portion of the budget. And Jan Hooks, Alex Rocco, Marcia Wallace, Phil Hartman, Doris Grau and Russi Taylor have straight up died, leading to many of their characters being retired out of "respect". If they still want to keep the show going indefinitely, it might be a good idea to get someone cheaper to replace the actors while they're still kicking.

[sdp]

Yes, I do think this is in a way an excuse to start replacing actors, in this way they can't get too many complains since it's being done for "diversity", but you can bet that instead of retiring actors after certain VAs die like Krabapple's, they'll start replacing them. And so when one of the Simpson family is eventually replaced it'll be a big del but people will live with it and once they replace one, they'll replace them all. Disney just acquired the Simpsons one of the biggest pop culture icons, they won't end the show when one of the main actors dies sadly.

[Leo656]

I can kind of see that, and it's probably a little bit of A, a little bit of B.

Problem is, if the incoming minority actor gets paid significantly less than the departing white actor for playing the same character, even though they're the new guy and the other actor was more famous and tenured... That's Racist! And then we're right back where we started.

Seriously, tell me you can't imagine Mendez demanding to be paid as much as Azaria and crying "racism" if he didn't get it. You may laugh, but that's absolutely the world we live in, now.

[Wildcat]

Like with Family Guy it’s not really necessary but it’s fine.

I’d rather they replace a voice actor than get rid of a whole character.

[Leo656]

There was an episode of The Simpsons on earlier where they went to a knock-off Disney theme park and came upon the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, which Lisa said was revamped "after massive complaints from Two People."

That was actually very funny and spot-on. To go from jokes like that to all the bending over they've done since being acquired by Disney is very sad and disheartening. They were right in the first place to give a dismissive middle finger to all the crybabies whining about Apu and everything else and just keep doing what they always did, and they never should have walked back on it. Nobody should ever listen to those types of people; they're morons walking around with their skin on inside out looking for stuff to whine about.

FACT: The very same people who will whine about a black or non-white cartoon character being played by a white voice actor and insist that it's a grave injustice to be corrected, will also DEMAND that white characters in live-action movies and TV shows be played by minority actors instead, "because something something Diversity something something White Privilege something something Systemic Racism," and they will never for a second understand how one situation completely contradicts the other or what wrong-headed nitwits they are.

Thus, they're not worth listening OR pandering to. Not a little, not ever. They're fools.

[Wildcat]

I don’t know if I’d call replacing some voices “bending over” or if it has anything to do with Disney. The Apu thing started way before they got it.

I do find it funny that all their Disney parodies are officially part of Disney though.

[Leo656]

It's "bending over" because nobody of consequence ever complained that Apu was "offensive" or that Carl was voiced by Hank Azaria. Literally no one EVER gave a sh*t.

Then some guy whines, "Ohhhh, I'm Indian, and when I was a kid people at school teased me and called me 'Apu'! It was awful!" and decided to make a whole movie about what a problem this was and how it created a worldwide ripple effect of Systemic Racism or whatever. I got news for ya, buddy, I'm white, and when I was in school kids nonetheless still called me a LOT worse than f*cking "Apu".:roll: My complaints about such taunts and "abuse" weren't listened to, nor was I afforded an opportunity to make a documentary about my mighty struggle against bullies and schoolyard taunts. I was just told to get a thicker skin and quit being a whiny bitch, and I did.

THEN one or two black people are like, "Hey, you ever notice that some black cartoon characters are played by white guys? That's SO racist!" And for some reason, instead of saying, "What are you, a f*cking moron?", people who make the Big Decisions decided that these one or two people spoke for everyone, and that this was actually a problem in need of "fixing" when No it f*cking ISN'T. And now suddenly people have to lose jobs they've been performing diligently for decades, because of this insipid, whiny, "Every Single Thing Is Racist Now" bullsh*t that's infected our entire culture. And they can't even recognize how offensive it would be when played in reverse, which makes it even more funny and tragic.

It's stupid. The whole thing is f*cking stupid. Hank Azaria was BULLIED into stepping down from roles he's made iconic over many years, because some f*cking loser nobody who's never going to get a real job or make a meaningful contribution to society because they're gonna be too busy "fighting injustice" until they die of starvation, decided to whine on the internet about how someone playing a goddamn cartoon character is racist. :roll:

These idiots shouldn't be indulged. They should be mocked and derided as whiny sissies trying to sow discord and make mountains out of molehills, not dictating policy. Yet they are being indulged, and their whining and whinging DOES dictate policy. Thus, "bending over".

"Too Many Honkies. Gotta Fix That." That's their unspoken battle cry. And guess what? THAT'S racist.

Live action movies and TV? White actors should play white characters and non-white actors should play non-white characters. Cartoons, though? It's just a voice, for f*ck's sake. Hank Azaria playing Carl Carlson isn't any more offensive than Tara Strong playing Clark Kent as a kid is offensive; it's just a goddamn voice. We're not exactly talking Mickey Rooney in "Breakfast At Tiffany's", here. Nobody's putting on f*cking blackface before they sit down and talk into a goddamn microphone. Jesus, these people.

People who can't understand these things, simply ate too many paint chips as kids and it's unfortunate that now we ALL have to deal with them and their pissy bullsh*t. Walking advertisements for the benefits of abortion, every single one of them.

[Wildcat]

I watched the documentary but I do not remember if the guy wanted the voice actor changed. Did he?

I remember him being upset that Apu was a stereotype. I guess he just wanted the character to become something more. He never wanted him removed either. He said he would remain a fan regardless because it was one of his favorite shows.

I think Kal Penn DID say he refused to watch during one of the interviews. That's pretty ridiculous.

[Coola Yagami]

I watched the documentary but I do not remember if the guy wanted the voice actor changed. Did he?

I remember him being upset that Apu was a stereotype. I guess he just wanted the character to become something more. He never wanted him removed either. He said he would remain a fan regardless because it was one of his favorite shows.

I think Kal Penn DID say he refused to watch during one of the interviews. That's pretty ridiculous.

No, he flat out wanted the character gone. I'm sure had he thought of it he woulda considered a different voice actor of actual Indian descent, but since no one saw them ever replacing Apu's voice actor.... it sounded like he just flat out wanted Apu gone from the show.

[Jester]

Kinda suprised they didn't just promote Kevin Michael Richardson to series regular.

[Wildcat]

No, he flat out wanted the character gone. I'm sure had he thought of it he woulda considered a different voice actor of actual Indian descent, but since no one saw them ever replacing Apu's voice actor.... it sounded like he just flat out wanted Apu gone from the show.I really do not know now. Only saw it once.

I seem to remember he still liked Apu. Just not what he meant to pop culture.

[Leo656]

I didn't watch the documentary on account of idiots like that guy aren't worth my precious time. No matter his intent, if his feelings were so hurt by a cartoon character that he had to make a goddamn MOVIE about it then he's a nitwit doing more harm than good in this world. But I remember reading an article in which he said something like, he wasn't necessarily trying to get the character sh*tcanned, he was merely "trying to start a conversation", or something to that effect.

What he SHOULD have said was Nothing, because that one trickle of water started a whole damn flood of nonsense and bullsh*t.

The episode where Lisa and Marge look at the camera and basically handwave it was the only correct way to address the situation, if indeed they HAD to address it. It was a very polite way of saying, "F*ck you, you whiny little pissant bitch, and the same goes for anyone dumb enough to think or infer the same way you do. Get a backbone, get a sense of humor, and stop reading too much into things and interpreting hostile intent when none was ever there. We're not dignifying your bullsh*t with a response, because we didn't do anything wrong." THAT was the correct way of handing it, but then they walked it back.

Is Apu a stereotype? Absolutely. But there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, in and of itself. Every single character on that show is a stereotype! That's the point of satirical humor! Apu is a stereotype of the local Indian convenience store worker, of which there's a bunch in every town in America who act and talk Just Like That, and if you say you've never met an "Apu" you're a liar. Likewise, Homer is the stereotype of the Do-Nothing Idiot Father Figure. Marge is the stereotype of the Well-Meaning Nag Of A Wife. Bart is the stereotype of the Hell-Raising Troublemaker Son. Lisa is the stereotype of the Put-Upon Middle Child. Jimbo and Nelson and the others are the stereotypical Big Bullies. Burns is the stereotype of every Rich And "Evil" Tycoon Boss, everyone from Howard Hughes to Donald Trump all rolled into one guy. Barney is the stereotypical fall-down drunk who never leaves the bar and constantly relapses whenever he tries to clean up. And so on and so on. EVERY character on The Simpsons is an absurd stereotype. If you don't know any of these types of people in Real Life, then your real life is very sheltered.

Every single stereotype is built on a foundation of truth, which is then taken to somewhat absurd extremes for the sake of comedy. That's the entire function. Stereotypes, in and of themselves, are NOT racist or offensive or anything else. Eddie Murphy addressed this very well in his own stand-up, many times. To paraphrase: "Things can't be 'offensive' if they are ALSO TRUE."

Apu talks the way those people talk. It's "offensive" because why? Because a white actor did the voice? That's stupid. If a Chinese guy tries to mimic an Irish accent, is that "racist"? For my money, not if he somehow nails it perfectly. I'd be more impressed than offended, frankly. You know how bad those people are with hard Rs. :tgrin: See? That's a stereotype. But it's not "offensive" because it's also a simple statement of fact.

Bottom line, EVERYTHING about Being Offended comes from personal choice. "I CHOOSE to have my feelings hurt. I CHOOSE to be offended."

Well, I personally am very offended by people who are such pussies that they choose to be offended by harmless things, and then cry about it until someone gives them a cookie.

"Outrage Culture" and the Nancy's who buy into and support it can suck all the dicks in the barnyard. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

[Jester]

My wife and I watched episode 2 of this season last night, and I swear it still had Azaria as Carl in it....there was a discernible difference in Carl's voice in episode 1 (well...to my ear anyway). I wonder if this was recorded earlier than the premier, but happened to air later...*shrugs*

[Coola Yagami]

Oh, is this the season that is finally putting those changes into place?

[AquaParade]

Season 31 just hit Disney+ so I am going to give that a try this week. I'm pretty excited even though I constantly find myself disappointed with 99% of episodes past "the golden years". That's not so bad, considering I'll probably watch seasons 1-8 for the rest of my life.
That said, it will be cool to watch the new episodes so shortly after they've aired, for the first time in a long time, and I may analyze them a bit differently knowing that it's the first season where Disney was in charge.

As for the Apu thing, I mean... I don't know. I tend to feel about it how Leo described above - all the characters are stereotypes. I suppose the question is, are they all stereotypes based on race? Does that make a difference? I don't have the answers, but that might be where the discussion is headed. I'm too exhausted to have it, frankly. Any Indian folk here have a say?

[Coola Yagami]

Season 31 just hit Disney+ so I am going to give that a try this week. I'm pretty excited even though I constantly find myself disappointed with 99% of episodes past "the golden years". That's not so bad, considering I'll probably watch seasons 1-8 for the rest of my life.
That said, it will be cool to watch the new episodes so shortly after they've aired, for the first time in a long time, and I may analyze them a bit differently knowing that it's the first season where Disney was in charge.

As for the Apu thing, I mean... I don't know. I tend to feel about it how Leo described above - all the characters are stereotypes. I suppose the question is, are they all stereotypes based on race? Does that make a difference? I don't have the answers, but that might be where the discussion is headed. I'm too exhausted to have it, frankly. Any Indian folk here have a say?

I mean, sorta? But I mean, we also have to stop this nonsense where some races are set higher than others where it's 'ok' or 'funny' to stereotype this race and/or group, but OH NOOOOO you better not make fun at this race or group.

Also what does this say about the people that DO talk like Apu cause I've met several. Who does this ****er think he is? So just because he talks and acts 'white' does he look down on his fellow people that still talk like Apu? **** that guy. He's the racist if anything, towards his own kind.

[oldmanwinters]

Just came to my mind:
gX13o7sovaY

[Jester]

Oh, is this the season that is finally putting those changes into place?
Fox made a big to-do about the premier having Alex Désert replacing Azaria as Carl....but it seems episode 2 still has ole Hank.

[Leo656]

I wasn't really paying attention and kept wondering who was talking, but every time I looked up it had already cut to something else. Then I finally saw that it was Carl with the new voice and I was like "WTF?"

So Much Ado About Nothing. Better would have been to leave well enough alone.

[Jester]

Just came to my mind:
gX13o7sovaY
Just one of a few...

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/images/albums/Shredder/Shredder1.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/3/3f/Character-shredder.png/revision/latest?cb=20121022022957

[Leo656]

Moral of the Story: If you're a minority, you can do anything. If you're a White Guy, stay in your lane or else.

Such a wonderful life lesson.

[Jester]

Moral of the Story: If you're a minority, you can do anything. If you're a White Guy, stay in your lane or else.

Such a wonderful life lesson.
Because it fits again...


Well..I’ve been in Hollywood long enough to see that whole dynamic change. There were many times that I would see Black actors playing Asian folks or white actors playing Black characters when I was a kid, but the whole dynamic has changed.
https://tv.avclub.com/voice-actor-rob-paulsen-says-he-won-t-play-a-character-1844183726

[Leo656]

He sure seems like a swell fella.

[Wildcat]

My wife and I watched episode 2 of this season last night, and I swear it still had Azaria as Carl in it....there was a discernible difference in Carl's voice in episode 1 (well...to my ear anyway). I wonder if this was recorded earlier than the premier, but happened to air later...*shrugs*Ya the Rome episode must have been made before because Carl still sounded the same. In the season premiere where Mr. Burns plays Fred you definitely hear the change in his voice.

[Jester]

Episode 3 has the cast doing terrible Italian, French, Spanish accents...which is totally ok.

[Sumac]

B-b-but they are not oppressed!

Who the **** oppresses Indians and where, outside of Muslims...?

[Leo656]

"Being playfully poked fun at" = "Oppression".

To a lot of people nowadays, anyway.

[Cordial Bird]

Apu is the catalyst for one of my favorite scenes in the series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5O_3_C9oM

So, screw the guy whose whining is tampering with a character I like from this undead zombie show way, way, waaaaay past its prime.

[Coola Yagami]

"Being playfully poked fun at" = "Oppression".

To a lot of people nowadays, anyway.

Or the world is ending cause one or two little pansies is 'offended'.

[Andrew NDB]

Looks like Dr. Hibbert has been quietly replaced, for the same reasoning:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/richardson-is-dr-hibbert-in-the-simpsons/

[sdp]

With Fox they rather retire characters than recast, Disney clearly doesn't care about recasting. Will the main simpsons family be recast after one of them dies?
It's happened in other countries dubs so why not the american version? Disney won't let this cash cow they just acquired go to waste.

[Jester]

They really need to promote Kevin to series regular and have him take on most of the Black characters. He could do it.

[AquaParade]

Wait, the original Dr. Hibbard was still alive? Too bad, really. Could have just made a new character.

[Leo656]

Stupid. Really f*cking stupid.

[Sumac]

Character in a satirical series being a caricature?

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/You-Dont-Say.jpg

Its like this idiots don't understand meaning of satire. Oh, wait, they don't. Its all about image and how much money they can make by pandering to retards who largely don't buy their products.

[Leo656]

I don't have any problem with Kevin Michael Richardson. He's done a lot of great stuff in some of my favorite things.

But I do think it's kinda silly that it's apparently a law now, that he HAS to voice Every Single Black Cartoon Character On TV, and most of the ones in video games.

...He's also voiced plenty of white and Asian and other "not-black" characters, too. Which is an irony I'm sure DisneyFox are far too busy to stop and take notice of.

Black Actors voicing White Characters: ACCEPTABLE
White Actors voicing Black Characters: HORRIBLY RACIST

Like, it's ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the whole "White people voicing Black characters takes opportunities away from Black actors" supposition, because that hypothesis is exposed as complete bullsh*t once you look at those Black characters and realize that they're ALL voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson, anyway! :lol: Like c'mon. Look at the guy's Wikipedia page, he's doing fine. If anything, HE'S the one "stealing opportunities" from other Black voice actors, since he's the only one anyone wants to hire, it seems like. I don't blame him for that, though; I'm just pointing out how inherently flawed the entire theory is.

[ZariusTwo]

We'll be hearing a lot more of the new Hibbert, the show's been renewed for two more seasons


https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/the-simpsons-renewed-season-33-34fox-1234920799/

[neatoman]

For what cruel reason does someone keep renewing this show? It it keeps going, it won't be too long before they drop the pretense and just replace all the senior citizens voicing these characters.

[AquaParade]

I don't have any problem with Kevin Michael Richardson. He's done a lot of great stuff in some of my favorite things.

But I do think it's kinda silly that it's apparently a law now, that he HAS to voice Every Single Black Cartoon Character On TV, and most of the ones in video games.

...He's also voiced plenty of white and Asian and other "not-black" characters, too. Which is an irony I'm sure DisneyFox are far too busy to stop and take notice of.

Black Actors voicing White Characters: ACCEPTABLE
White Actors voicing Black Characters: HORRIBLY RACIST

Like, it's ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the whole "White people voicing Black characters takes opportunities away from Black actors" supposition, because that hypothesis is exposed as complete bullsh*t once you look at those Black characters and realize that they're ALL voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson, anyway! :lol: Like c'mon. Look at the guy's Wikipedia page, he's doing fine. If anything, HE'S the one "stealing opportunities" from other Black voice actors, since he's the only one anyone wants to hire, it seems like. I don't blame him for that, though; I'm just pointing out how inherently flawed the entire theory is.

Maybe we just have to take a deep breath and let idiots be idiots, because it is infuriating to pay attention to. I really don't know how to fight idiot, at this point, other than that.

[sdp]

Simpsons is a licensing cashcow, they make tons of money despite all the new seasons "sucking" I mean The show has "sucked" for far longer than it was good. According to people since I stopped watching a long time ago but they do seem a parody of themselves though still I get linked some funny clips fromt ime to time, so it can't be all bad. I remember when Disney bought Fox an acquaintance told me they weren't allowed to make any Duff merchandise anymore but I'm guessing that's no longer the case since I've seen some recent Duff merchandise.

Now that they're replacing iconic actors in roles, it's just a matter of time before the main cast is replaced. Disney just acquired the Simpsons and they aren't going to be getting rid of one of the biggest IP that Fox had. I'd actually love to see some spin-offs from the Simpsons.

[Prowler]

How many people still even keep up with The Simpsons nowadays? Because I haven't heard anything positive about the last 15 years or so of The Simpsons except for the movie.

Last time I watched a few modern Simpsons episodes was around 2009 or so and I was really shocked at how much the quality had dropped. It felt like every character had gotten flanderised to death and the series was pretty much running on autopilot at that point. Maybe the show has improved later again?

I guess since The Simpsons are so huge they'll always have a sizeable enough audience to justify making more episodes.

[TigerClaw]

That show has been around for years, and non of the characters have aged.

[sdp]

That show has been around for years, and non of the characters have aged.

I hate shows where characters don't age, and for a comedy like The Simpsons it would've actually worked and given writers more material to work with, people always loved the future episodes. They didn't need to age them 1 year every season but a little over time to provide new writing opportunities.

[Prowler]

That show has been around for years, and non of the characters have aged.

That's hardly an exclusive phenomenon of The Simpsons.

Did any of the South Park kids age throughout the years? I remember that one episode where they were now in 4th grade, but it's not like they became any significantly older since then.

Remember the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes? It lasted for a decade and Calvin never aged nor did anyone else in it.

I don't think chars years not aging has any relation to the shows decline in quality. I'd say it's more due to writers running out of ideas throughout the years. Gonna guess some of the staff had changed as well. Hard to keep things fresh for over 3 decades.

I can't pinpoint exactly where The Simpsons began declining since it's been ages since I was a regular watcher but I could tell the early 2000s seasons weren't as good as the 90s seasons. It wasn't a HUGE difference or anything, but it showed.

As for how long people have been complaining about The Simpsons losing quality... not sure, but I remember people already complaining about it online back in 2006.

[AquaParade]

I still watch the older season. The show has been bad for so long now that it may as wel keep going until it’s good again. It can’t be any more tarnished. Maybe Disney can hire some fantastic writes who understand the humor of the earlier seasons.

[Prowler]

I still watch the older season. The show has been bad for so long now that it may as wel keep going until it’s good again. It can’t be any more tarnished. Maybe Disney can hire some fantastic writes who understand the humor of the earlier seasons.

I don't trust Disney at all. And it's depressing how they own The Simpsons now too. They're like a eucalyptus...

[sdp]

From what I understand current seasons still have like 2-4 great episodes and a few decent ones even if most of the season is bad, there are guides over what episodes to watch that are worthy of "old simpsons". To me they started getting bad when plots became crazier and celebrities started appearing often.

I don't think you can fix the simpsons now, "Simpson's already did it" was true and that was like ten years ago. You can't continue to make consistently good seasons on something that's already done everything and characters have become a parody of themselves. They could still make a great second movie and a great final episode, but consistently good seasons? nah.

[Prowler]

The Simpsons should have learnt from Seinfeld. They should have bowed out when they were still must watch TV. Funny enough, Seinfeld and Simpsons are contemporaries.

It's too late now. The Simpsons have tarnished their reputation. Of course nothing will ever change the fact their first 10 or so seasons were great and some of the best written TV episodes in history, but it seems like we've already reached a point where half or more of the series episodes are mediocre. And that's pretty sad. The Simpsons deserved a much better legacy.

[Xav]

That show has been around for years, and non of the characters have aged.They actually have aged just at an incredibly slow rate. All the family members have had birthdays and have aged a year or two.

[ZariusTwo]

They could still make a great second movie and a great final episode, but consistently good seasons? nah.

There's some argument to be made the recent seasons have been a return to form. Not 'outstanding' or 'great', but decent. The recent story that closed the door on Edna's character was a highlight, even if it had a pretty dumb twist.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I hate shows where characters don't age, and for a comedy like The Simpsons it would've actually worked and given writers more material to work with, people always loved the future episodes. They didn't need to age them 1 year every season but a little over time to provide new writing opportunities.

Tbh, I think it's for the best that the kids stay the same age cause I have a feeling the writers would come up with some cringing story ideas if they got older (gives me certain Meg and Chris episode flashbacks, though I stopped Family Guy long ago).

I personally preferred when Bart was the breakout character before switching to Homer and other characters. When Bart was popular with audiences, I felt that as a viewer, you could always see where he was coming from and why he does the things he does, whereas now he just feels like the boy who does things for the sake of. Homer is no doubt funny but I can only watch his antics for so long before getting burnt out from him. Not quite as bad as Randy Marsh but still.

[Prowler]

Tbh, I think it's for the best that the kids stay the same age cause I have a feeling the writers would come up with some cringing story ideas if they got older (gives me certain Meg and Chris episode flashbacks, though I stopped Family Guy long ago).

I personally preferred when Bart was the breakout character before switching to Homer and other characters. When Bart was popular with audiences, I felt that as a viewer, you could always see where he was coming from and why he does the things he does, whereas now he just feels like the boy who does things for the sake of. Homer is no doubt funny but I can only watch his antics for so long before getting burnt out from him. Not quite as bad as Randy Marsh but still.
Bart was originally meant to be the main character of the series, yes. A lot of the Simpsons merch made Was of Bart and you also play as him in several of the older Simpsons videogames like Bart vs. The Space Mutants and Bart vs. The World.

But Homer ended up taking over Bart in popularity and became the main character of the show. I guess that happened because... well The Simpsons is a show for an older audience and not for very young kids. So most of the audience probably related better to Homer than Bart. And it's easier to write a mature cartoon series when you focus on an adult character instead of on a 4th grader.

That being said, I've always felt The Simpsons were kinda like Calvin & Hobbes in the sense that pretty much anyone of any age bracket can read/watch and still find some enjoyment in it. And it's not like The Simpsons have ever been improper for very young audiences. I was never forbidden from watching The Simsposns when I was 8 years old.

[Coola Yagami]

They actually have aged just at an incredibly slow rate. All the family members have had birthdays and have aged a year or two.

Not the Simpsons. Bart is eternally 10, and every time he has a birthday it's his '10th' birthday.

[Andrew NDB]

I still say they should have tried what Rugrats did, which was a spinoff/new show that's like 10-15 years later.

[sdp]

Tons of possibilities for simpsons spin offs, surprised Fox never did anything but I'm sure Disney will milk this cow. Hell even the video games and comics dwelled into the springfield universe with soon offs.

[ZariusTwo]

So tonight's episode is again going to play around with the show's rubber band continuity and again set a flashback to Homer's youth in the 1990s. Matt Selmon addressed the 'affects' of this with a message on twitte



Continuity Alert: Sunday's @TheSimpsons playfully re-interprets the show's timeline to allow Homer to be a teenager in the early '90s — The Simpsons is a 32-year-old series where the characters do not age, so the "canon" must be elastic / contradictory / silly.

This does not mean other beloved classic

@TheSimpsons flashback shows didn't happen. None of this happened. It's all made up. Every episode is its own Groundhog Day that only has make sense for that story (if that).

There are only stories. If all these crazy things really happened to one family the characters would be in a mental hospital.

If you love, hate or are completely indifferent to our Silly Putty paradoxical continuity, thank you so much for watching / caring about

[CyberCubed]

Ugh, that makes me sick. Abe Simpson was a World War II vet, Mr. Burns was from the early 1900's, and Homer's mother left him in the late 60's. Homer/Marge growing up in the 70's is what their characters were about, with Bart/Lisa being 80's kids.

It just isn't right to have them pretend that didn't happen.

[Coola Yagami]

Not to mention, Bart was all about the 90s. You can't just ignore how it all started and now say Homer was a teen in the 90s, making Bart and Lisa 2010s kids or whatever.

Oh well...

[ZariusTwo]

JJ Abrams also guest stars tonight

https://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-on-the-simpsons/

[MsMarvelDuckie]

^ That explains a lot....

[CyberCubed]

The Simpsons will always take place in the late 80's and early 90's for me. I don't mind them referencing modern celebrities, pop culture or movies, because that stuff is inevitable. But aside from that they should just stick them in that one late 80's and early 90's era.

[sdp]

We already knew this in 2008 or so Homer was in university in the 90s, so it's not the first time they do htis. sliding timelines suck, especially for superheroes that are more realistic, less so the Simpsons since they're a comedy but even Flintstones had time happen.
Season 40 flashback episode: Homer is a millennial and Grandpa is a Gulf War veteran
Season 60 flashback episode: Homer is a zoomer and Grandpa is an Afghanistan veteran

[Wildcat]

With all the different future episodes I don’t think having Homer grow up in the 80s/90s is that bad. They probably could have written it differently and still make it about his childhood but ok.

It was a good episode. All the hating on remakes and updates is so true. Release the Sonic Teeth Cut was funny. I know it was just a joke but I don’t think that actually exists.

[neatoman]

If Homer is 38, then he was born in 1983. Which given how he's written, seems kind of odd. Of course they can't really change it so that he grew up watching stuff like TMNT and Power Rangers or listening to Brittney Spears in his teens, he would fundamentally come across like a different characters in many respects.

[Leo656]

A fundamental problem becomes, at this late stage in the series' lifespan there's no possibility whatsoever of any of these new "flashbacks" will 1. Be received well, partly since NO new episodes are generally received well, and 2. Supersede stuff like "The Way We Was" as "canon" in the minds of 99% of the audience. So the fact that they even bother with them seems kind of pointless and lazy. Just write a "real" episode.

[ZariusTwo]

Turning the topic back to it's origins, there appear to be 'ambitious' plans for Apu


https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a35905068/the-simpsons-boss-plans-apu-controversy/

[Wildcat]

I knew they were not getting rid of Apu but I’m sad to see they might not make it to 1,000 episodes. Even if they end it before I can definitely see Disney reviving it later on so maybe it would eventually. If it’s not a total reboot.

They should bring it back with the kids grown up but in the same continuity. Do that for another 30 seasons :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

Hank Azaria apologizes for his portrayal of Apu, and likens the character now to a cultural 'slur'



https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a36104180/simpsons-hank-azaria-apu-apology/

[sdp]

I can't find the original video reuploaded by anyone anymore in good quality, only this one:
x0idRevzxD0

That's the Simpsons I remember, but they cucked to peer pressure. Can you imagine if 90s Simpsons had crumbled and given in to the criticisms it received? We would've never gotten so many classic episodes. But it was inevitable, even if they hadn't cucked out with Fox, Disney would've forced it.

[Vegita-San]

oh for ****s sake. the world has gone insane.

[AquaParade]

Don't worry, y'all, the golden years of the show is enough to nourish us until death. We can survive on 8 or 9 seasons. Trust me, I've already watched most of those episodes over 5 times and they never get old. Enjoy!

[Sumac]

Well, this cretin just opened himself to SJW sharks.

[sdp]

Don't worry, y'all, the golden years of the show is enough to nourish us until death. We can survive on 8 or 9 seasons. Trust me, I've already watched most of those episodes over 5 times and they never get old. Enjoy!

I mean true we have 31 seasons worth of Apu's original voice and no one is going to care to even watch 21 of those seasons :lol: Neither the ones getting upset over apu's replacement or those upset that apu was voiced by a whitey ironically enough :lol::lol:

[CyberCubed]

As a white man I am offended Homer is fat and dumb. It’s a stereotype that all Americans are lazy and get by easily.

Oh wait, no I don’t mind since it’s a cartoon.

[Leo656]

I read that sh*t. What an asshole. :roll:

"I wish I could apologize to every single Indian person I've 'assaulted' with my performance on a cartoon show." Good GRIEF.

So a couple of kids on the playground got called "Apu" when they were kids, or taunted with "Thank you, come again!" by other kids. Oh my GOD, that is SO HARMFUL, you guys! How Dare They. Kids tease, that's what they do, that isn't "assault". I constantly got called "gay" for having long hair and having a feminine jawline. Where's my reparations?

"This Apu character perpetuates a stereotype of Indians being convenience store workers! How horrible that they push that Provably True Fact on people by way of their cartoon show!"

I mean, if the show introduced a character named Sanjay who worked in computer software and made seven figures, would that ALSO be "a racist stereotype" considering that's another extremely common thing Those People do? Or is it just the Kwik-E-Mart thing that's "racist"? I don't get it.

As for the voice, it's called voice ACTING. They didn't hire the guy to be "racist", they hired the guy because at the time they started doing the show they only had like five voice actors and they had to do use everybody for multiple roles. No malice intended whatsoever, it was a cost-saving measure. AND, it's a cartoon and therefore shouldn't matter.

I mean, Cree Summer is black and Native American; her first and most prominent cartoon role was playing a little blonde-haired, blue-eyed white girl. Tara Strong voices GUYS, sometimes. By the New Logic, that stuff "shouldn't be allowed" because people need to "stay in their lane" and only voice characters they share race or ethnicity or "identity" with. That's STUPID.

This whole "Only ______ can act ______ roles" stuff is nonsense, and it undermines the entire principle of "acting". I'm not saying exclude people; if you wanna cast an Indian guy to play an Indian character and the guy you find is good at the job, that's fine. But it's pretty disingenuous to go back and be like "Wow, we've been hurting people for over 30 years! Let's start making reparations Right Now because people are suddenly offended!" First of all, nobody was ever "hurt" by this situation, and second, if not for the "moral outrage" they never would have taken a step to "fix" anything anyway, so their ham-fisted efforts to "make it right" at present aren't even sincere.

But yeah, the overly-dramatic "I wish I could hug every Indian person and say I'm sorry" stuff from Azaria is just cringe. What a baby. I love how he tried to make it about himself, too, with the whole "If I'd never gone to rehab I might have reacted to this differently, but now I have empathy." :lol: What a rube.

[Coola Yagami]

I constantly got called "gay" for having long hair and having a feminine jawline. Where's my reparations?



I mean... we can gather all those now-adult bullies and have them hug you one by one and give you a heartfelt apology. And maybe make your birthday Rikki Ain't Gay day? Maybe name a street after you.

[Leo656]

I live around the corner from a street called "Legends Drive". Close enough, I reckon. :lol:

[Wildcat]

Well if he genuinely feels uncomfortable doing the character now that’s fine. It doesn’t make an @-hole or SJW. He just feels different about it.

Ya if there was no documentary or public complaints he probably would not have cared to see what others thought and Apu would not have been recast.

That’s not really the point though. Something happened that made him look into the subject and decide how he felt about it.

I don’t think Apu or any Simpsons stereotype is offensive. As others have pointed out he’s a well rounded character and he’s never looked down upon for being Indian in the show.

Like I said before “so-and-so should only voice this” is dumb but I actually listened to the segment because reading quotes isn’t the same as hearing it.

He basically said that you don’t actually know how something comes off to others (or who you’re impersonating) and didn’t feel the need to keep doing it.

He even mentions Cletus and his other characters. He says the difference is there’s other representations of those characters in entertainment but Apu is a very default view of Indians.

Look I agree it’s all a little overdramatic and recasting is unnecessary but I’m not gonna criticize him for wanting to do the character justice.

[Leo656]

My problem is, he originally had the Sane Person reaction: "C'mon, who gives a sh*t?" That was the proper and reasonable way to react to this kind of nonsense.

Then he let people "bully" him into changing his opinion with their sob stories. "Some kids on the playground called me 'Apu'!" "Yeah... so?" That should have been it, that should have been the entire conversation.

It just comes off as very insincere, like he honestly only felt like it was an issue after he was TOLD to think it was an issue. And I suspect that his "change of heart" had less to do with any sob stories, or introspection, or him going to rehab, and a LOT to do with his new bosses at Disney.

The whole thing just stinks. And where does it end? Are they gonna go back and re-dub 30+ years of Simpsons episodes with the new Apu voice? You may laugh, but it's not outside of their power to do so if they feel like it. All it takes is a few SJW's to email them saying they SHOULD do that, and the next thing you know, they will.

Think they'd never go that far? We'll see. Now that Those People already got their way by bullying the producers into re-casting the role (and Dr. Hibbert, who I never even heard any complaints about to begin with), we'll see just how hard they're willing to commit to their "We don't want to hurt anyone's pwecious feewings" position. Theoretically, those "racist caricature" voices still exist so long as the reruns with the original voice acting in them still air. How long would it honestly take for them to re-record all of Apu's lines with the new actor, in theory... a week or two? And what would it cost? Probably hardly anything.

Will they? Maybe not. Would it shock me? Not at all, at this point. We've already seen what happens when you give a mouse a cookie, after all.

[Wildcat]

The documentary came out well before Disney got it. Hank declined the guy’s interview. He’s had a good while to form an opinion.

Not sure how much the documentary has to do with it anymore. Isn’t it just part of the whole “being more diverse” subject now?

Perhaps...perhaps the guy had somewhat of a point if Apu was the best character he could base it on.

I haven’t seen anything else he did but according to his wiki he hasn’t done much since. I’d like to know what he thinks after they update him.

[Coola Yagami]

The documentary came out well before Disney got it. Hank declined the guy’s interview. He’s had a good while to form an opinion.

Not sure how much the documentary has to do with it anymore. Isn’t it just part of the whole “being more diverse” subject now?

Perhaps...perhaps the guy had somewhat of a point if Apu was the best character he could base it on.

I haven’t seen anything else he did but according to his wiki he hasn’t done much since. I’d like to know what he thinks after they update him.

I doubt he cares since he probably did all of this for clout rather than actually being offended.

I think most of these people play victim just so they can 'leave some kind of mark' or whatever rather than whatever they're talking about.

So instead of actually being offended, it would not surprise me if he did all of this hoping to get some sort of Netflix deal or something to keep his career going or at the very least look back and be like 'you know how they re-casted Apu and re-did all his lines? Yeah, that was me.'

[GoldMutant]

There's definitely a major disconnect going on. "Cancel culture" is certainly toxic, as we established before. I think the Space Jam 2 thread indicated that. :lol:

It just seems counter-intuitive. As pointed above, you got voice actresses that have the voice for boyish characters. Besides Tara Strong, what about Nancy Cartwright, since we're doing a Simpson discussion?

It boils down to voice talent, I feel. You got people who should be able to voice anyone no problem. But God forbid they don't fit the "identity" of who said character represents.

The Apu problem is rough to examine, personally. Mostly because like Pepe le Pew in Looney Tunes, I really don't care for him. Just not one of my favorite characters is all, but I understand his popularity.

I'll have to think more on it another time. But that's my general feeling on it right now.
_________________

Any good episodes from this season so far? Been out of the loop on Simpsons.

[AquaParade]

The only somewhat recent episode I really enjoyed was the Lego episode. Though I'm not sure I can really call it recent. I'd recommend it.

[Andrew NDB]

You can never, ever apologize to these people. Ever. Don't do it. Tell them to f*** off and leave it at that.

[ABrown]

My boss at my second job basically IS Apu. One of my former co-workers used to do an impression of him right in front of him (MAN i miss him). I still do the impression in front of my co-workers, customers, and my family/friends. And I am NEVER apologizing for it.

[Andrew NDB]

John Cleese mocks Azaria:

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/john-cleese-hank-azaria?utm_source=lwc-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=LWC-Newsletter%202021-04-15

[Coola Yagami]

It was fine until the writer showed his own racism by using the term Latinx.

[Leo656]

He was using it ironically, sir.

That article was actually very funny. Big fan! Especially the "Azaria showed everyone his vagina" bit. That never gets old.

[ZariusTwo]

Now the show's offended Morrisey

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56806312

[Jester]

Now the show's offended Morrisey

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56806312
To be fair, what doesn't offend Morrisey.

[mrmaczaps]

Did Apu own the store where he worked?

Would that make a difference?

[neatoman]

I'm not sure it's totally consistant but there is an episode where he got fired, which would not be possible if it was his private business. So no, as far as that episode was concerned, Apu was an employee.

[Andrew NDB]

But was the owner another Indian?

[neatoman]

But was the owner another Indian?

Run by a monastery in India. No idea why a monastery would want to run a chain of convenient stores but whatever.