TMNT Macro-Series: Raphael Preview and Discussion

[AlZarkovski]

Release: 12/12/2018.
First Look:

https://is5-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple118/v4/f7/95/40/f79540da-fbe1-805b-2c96-c6eccfd5de55/source/360x480bb.jpg
https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple118/v4/ac/6f/e4/ac6fe413-d691-de8f-d829-b4e768aaa874/source/360x480bb.jpghttps://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple118/v4/bb/10/5d/bb105d83-e7cb-01e0-968f-0f96b6f45f79/source/360x480bb.jpg

[Utrommaniac]

Oh jeez already :o

Didn't think I'd be bringing this out so soon
https://i.imgflip.com/2nw8h3.jpg

[CyberCubed]

Almost didn't realize that was Casey at first, looks de-aged about 5 years from usual. Heh.

[Igglet]

As long as I get some Raph and Casey moments, I'm on board. This looks great so far. I like the art.

And oh boy, that first panel. Utrommaniac put it better than I ever could.

Also, the issue is dropping in just over a week?! Thank God, I thought we'd have to wait until at least like the 20th for this issue to drop.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh jeez already :o

Didn't think I'd be bringing this out so soon
https://i.imgflip.com/2nw8h3.jpg

:tlol:

Whereas I want to see my childhood favorite turtle get absolutely mutilated emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I want that loner turtle to get MAULED. And then do some damage on his way out. :tgrin:

EDIT: On his way out to escape, not his way out of life. I don't want THAT dark. :trazz:

[Rooish]

:tlol:

Whereas I want to see my childhood favorite turtle get absolutely mutilated emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I want that loner turtle to get MAULED. And then do some damage on his way out. :tgrin:

EDIT: On his way out to escape, not his way out of life. I don't want THAT dark. :trazz:

Yeah I'm really excited for this! Casey was butchered, now Raph! He will get better. But I think his eye needs to go. ;)

Anyway, has anyone figured out where these macros fit into the story yet? Are Mike, Leo and Raph all after 88?

[Utrommaniac]

It's times like this where you forget Casey was stabbed in the gut until you're actually reminded :teek:

I think it goes:

Don, Mike, Battle Lines arch, Leo, Christmas issue, Raphael, City at War

[Igglet]

It's times like this where you forget Casey was stabbed in the gut until you're actually reminded :teek:

I think it goes:

Don, Mike, Battle Lines arch, Leo, Christmas issue, Raphael, City at War

Sounds about right, with the exception of the Christmas Issue as we've no idea when it happens (yet).

Bobby said in another thread that the Donnie and Mikey ones are set before Battle Lines, and the Leo and Raph ones are set after it.

[hypered1]

Almost didn't realize that was Casey at first, looks de-aged about 5 years from usual. Heh.

To be fair there hasn't ever been any explicitly stated ages for any of characters in the IDW series, just educated guesses from us fans.
I think the closest we've ever had is April, Casey and Angel being around 18-ish at the start of the series as both April and Casey are at NY Tech college, although it's never mentioned which year(s) they are in, and Angel mentioned during City Fall that she and Casey were born around the same time.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm personally expecting the fallout of this issue to lead to some sort of weird rapprochement between Raphael and Old Hob. I've always wanted to see them end up as reluctant partners in some sort of conflict, and this panel in #87 really seems to be subtly laying the groundwork. Raph and Hob, arms crossed, backs to each other "We're only working together because Slash. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, whatever." :tlol:

We KNOW that Raph is going to end up tortured by Bishop is this macro-issue; we KNOW that Old Hob hates Bishop now more than ever for what happened to Slash. We KNOW Bishop is not going away any time soon.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see, but it seems like a perfect evolution for both characters. And IDW has recently given us a Casey/Hun team-up.

To be fair there hasn't ever been any explicitly stated ages for any of characters in the IDW series, just educated guesses from us fans.
I think the closest we've ever had is April, Casey and Angel being around 18-ish at the start of the series as both April and Casey are at NY Tech college, although it's never mentioned which year(s) they are in, and Angel mentioned during City Fall that she and Casey were born around the same time.

I always assumed Casey and April were both in their second year of college. So 19-20.

[ChosenOne]

I'm personally expecting the fallout of this issue to lead to some sort of weird rapprochement between Raphael and Old Hob. I've always wanted to see them end up as reluctant partners in some sort of conflict, and this panel in #87 really seems to be subtly laying the groundwork. Raph and Hob, arms crossed, backs to each other "We're only working together because Slash. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, whatever." :tlol:

We KNOW that Raph is going to end up tortured by Bishop is this macro-issue; we KNOW that Old Hob hates Bishop now more than ever for what happened to Slash. We KNOW Bishop is not going away any time soon.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see, but it seems like a perfect evolution for both characters. And IDW has recently given us a Casey/Hun team-up.

Yes, please! I love that idea!

[Utrommaniac]

Pardon the Undertale (and eventual noise of it), but I'm pretty sure this is going to be the Mutanimals and Casey up against Bishop through this story
CaPrrncGo3M

DoN'T touCH the ChILd


But yeah, agreeing that Raphael and Hob may finally put each other's **** aside. Things gotta stop when a mutual friend literally vanishes from existence.

[Cloudrunner]

I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that Alopex could play a supportive role here, given that she's had to kill people in the past and would know how to deal with the mental issues with it. Plus, she is in desperate need of some kind of role in the story.

[Igglet]

I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that Alopex could play a supportive role here, given that she's had to kill people in the past and would know how to deal with the mental issues with it. Plus, she is in desperate need of some kind of role in the story.

I sort of just hope she gets a personality. She was great in that Universe issue with Raph but otherwise she had a completely different personality depending on who was writing her I feel like. She's a character who I feel like has so much potential if used right.

[ChosenOne]

I sort of just hope she gets a personality. She was great in that Universe issue with Raph but otherwise she had a completely different personality depending on who was writing her I feel like. She's a character who I feel like has so much potential if used right.

Given her compassion and understanding of Krisa's plight, I'd like to see her take over as leader of the Mutanimals once Hob's big war-on-humans shtick fails.

[Cloudrunner]

I sort of just hope she gets a personality. She was great in that Universe issue with Raph but otherwise she had a completely different personality depending on who was writing her I feel like. She's a character who I feel like has so much potential if used right.

I agree. I liked her personality during that raid on the Null base with Raph. I liked her too during... I can't remember the timeline but when the Turtles and Mutanimals fought Bebop and Rocksteady. Other times she's played straight to where she barely has personality at all. And then there's the Toad Baron arc where she's wildly out of character and childish to the point of being ditzy. I was convinced Sophie was writing the Alopex from her fan comic rather than the one from the IDW one. She was done best in that two parter with Raph and I hope she continues to be written like that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Given her compassion and understanding of Krisa's plight, I'd like to see her take over as leader of the Mutanimals once Hob's big war-on-humans shtick fails.

I'd be cool with a Mutant Civil War... Old Hob, Raph, Don, Ray, etc on one side, Leo, Mike, Mondo, etc on the other. That'd be sweet.

[Igglet]

Given her compassion and understanding of Krisa's plight, I'd like to see her take over as leader of the Mutanimals once Hob's big war-on-humans shtick fails.

Eh, I don't know, I don't think Alopex would fit in with that sort of group, ESPECIALLY not as the leader. If anything, I'd much prefer if Ray or Sally took over. But it would be much more interesting if, instead of having Hob die in this war or something, he instead realizes that waging a war on humanity won't do him any good and grows as a character. I mean, seeing how far he's come, is that really a stretch?

[Utrommaniac]

Oh god, Ray with Sally as his right hand would lay waste to the other team :lol: .

[ChosenOne]

Eh, I don't know, I don't think Alopex would fit in with that sort of group, ESPECIALLY not as the leader. If anything, I'd much prefer if Ray or Sally took over. But it would be much more interesting if, instead of having Hob die in this war or something, he instead realizes that waging a war on humanity won't do him any good and grows as a character. I mean, seeing how far he's come, is that really a stretch?

She'd fit in as the leader if she wanted to take them in another direction. Who else is there? Ray and Herman are Hob's stooges, Sally is cool but she's a follower, not a leader... It'd be fun to see Alopex forced to lead a bunch of other mutated animals like herself, especially if they go up against Null's forces.

[Igglet]

She'd fit in as the leader if she wanted to take them in another direction. Who else is there? Ray and Herman are Hob's stooges, Sally is cool but she's a follower, not a leader... It'd be fun to see Alopex forced to lead a bunch of other mutated animals like herself, especially if they go up against Null's forces.

Ray and Herman siding with Hob doesn't make them random stooges. As a matter of fact, Ray has shown himself to be arguably the most capable member of the entire Mutanimals. I don't see the correlation between doing the shady work with your boss and not being a capable leader.

Sally's shown to, in a way, be the spiritual core of the Mutanimals several times already. The fact that she wasn't in opportunities to really show off her leadership skills doesn't mean she doesn't have any. I mean, Hell, the same logic could be applied to Alopex. She has shown literally no emotional attachment to the Mutanimals, she's shown no leadership skills, etc. Both Ray and Sally are way better choices at this point.

[ChosenOne]

Ray and Herman siding with Hob doesn't make them random stooges. As a matter of fact, Ray has shown himself to be arguably the most capable member of the entire Mutanimals. I don't see the correlation between doing the shady work with your boss and not being a capable leader.

Sally's shown to, in a way, be the spiritual core of the Mutanimals several times already. The fact that she wasn't in opportunities to really show off her leadership skills doesn't mean she doesn't have any. I mean, Hell, the same logic could be applied to Alopex. She has shown literally no emotional attachment to the Mutanimals, she's shown no leadership skills, etc. Both Ray and Sally are way better choices at this point.

Not "random", no, but they're definitely his henchmen, there to follow orders.

Sally's the spiritual core, the same role Mikey plays for the Turtles. Could you see Mikey being the leader over Leo? Alopex has displayed empathy towards other mutants' (ie, Zodi and Krisa, with mixed results) plight while at the same time being against a militaristic approach to mutantkind (ie, when she refused to join the Mutanimals under Hob, which she perceived as an army). Add both those traits and you get the right character to lead the team away from their goal of taking down humanity, and more towards becoming actual freedom fighters for exploited or abused mutants everywhere. Which, in turn, puts them on a collision course with Null. And it's great character development for her.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, I could see Alopex as being more of a "mascot" than a leader.

[ChosenOne]

Yeah, I could see Alopex as being more of a "mascot" than a leader.

She'll never amount to much of a character that way. I could see her being the activist to Hob's militarist. Not to mention the Mutanimals already have a mascot in Pete, a heart in Sally, etc. (Look at us, passionately arguing plot points that will never even come to pass! Haha!)

[Utrommaniac]

Oh, I know how that is, I say glaringly at Krang backstory elements that don't connect or make sense.


I had actually forgotten that Hob and Alopex had met...

[ChosenOne]

Oh, I know how that is, I say glaringly at Krang backstory elements that don't connect or make sense.

I had actually forgotten that Hob and Alopex had met...

That's the magic of this comic! Waiting for new issues is a drag but at least speculating is half the fun!

The only mutants Hob hasn't met are Karai's posse and Null's mutants. I look forward to seeing how he'll react to those in due time.

[daggio]

Since this Macro takes place after "Battle Lines", it should be interesting to see if Bishop is using some new cybernetic body or he's just being completely himself. If that's the case (that he'll be walking around without the use of a cyborg), I might have flashbacks to the Brain from "Pinky and the Brain":lol:.

[Utrommaniac]

Unless he doesn't have a spare body lying around...I'd say maybe not?

[Igglet]

Not "random", no, but they're definitely his henchmen, there to follow orders.

Sally's the spiritual core, the same role Mikey plays for the Turtles. Could you see Mikey being the leader over Leo? Alopex has displayed empathy towards other mutants' (ie, Zodi and Krisa, with mixed results) plight while at the same time being against a militaristic approach to mutantkind (ie, when she refused to join the Mutanimals under Hob, which she perceived as an army). Add both those traits and you get the right character to lead the team away from their goal of taking down humanity, and more towards becoming actual freedom fighters for exploited or abused mutants everywhere. Which, in turn, puts them on a collision course with Null. And it's great character development for her.

Of course they're his henchmen. They're a part of his mutant army. That, in no way, makes them any less capable as leaders. As a matter of fact, being so closely involved with Hob's operations just makes them BETTER leaders.

You mentioned that Sally was the spiritual core of the Mutanimals and that's why she shouldn't lead, because she doesn't have the traits of a leader. Then you listed traits that Alopex has shown, empathy and striving for actual freedom fighting... both of which would be traits of someone serving as a spiritual core. COULD Alopex serve as a good leader? Sure. But Sally, Ray and even Herman are WAY better choices at the moment.

[ChosenOne]

Of course they're his henchmen. They're a part of his mutant army. That, in no way, makes them any less capable as leaders. As a matter of fact, being so closely involved with Hob's operations just makes them BETTER leaders.

You mentioned that Sally was the spiritual core of the Mutanimals and that's why she shouldn't lead, because she doesn't have the traits of a leader. Then you listed traits that Alopex has shown, empathy and striving for actual freedom fighting... both of which would be traits of someone serving as a spiritual core. COULD Alopex serve as a good leader? Sure. But Sally, Ray and even Herman are WAY better choices at the moment.

Mondo is his henchman too. Would you pick him to lead?

How many times has Sally been in the front lines? You don't take the getaway man into the bank during the robbery, or put the eleventh hour cavalry inside the fort. That's part of why she's not the best choice for leader, for someone who needs to be there and actually lead from the thick of it.

If things go as I foresee them going for the Mutanimals in the near future, then they'll need a hard swerve away from Hob's mindset and goals afterwards. Ray and Herman aren't distanced enough from him to provide that, and Sally just isn't enough. At least I don't think so. Would be happy to be proven wrong, and after all, this is the writers' world, we just live in it.

[Igglet]

Mondo is his henchman too. Would you pick him to lead?

How many times has Sally been in the front lines? You don't take the getaway man into the bank during the robbery, or put the eleventh hour cavalry inside the fort. That's part of why she's not the best choice for leader, for someone who needs to be there and actually lead from the thick of it.

If things go as I foresee them going for the Mutanimals in the near future, then they'll need a hard swerve away from Hob's mindset and goals afterwards. Ray and Herman aren't distanced enough from him to provide that, and Sally just isn't enough. At least I don't think so. Would be happy to be proven wrong, and after all, this is the writers' world, we just live in it.

You seem to misunderstand. My argument isn't that, because Ray and Herman are his henchmen, they're better suited as leaders. It's that them being his henchmen doesn't make them incapable to step up as leaders. No, being involved with the boss' work doesn't instantly make you leader material but it sure doesn't hurt. You were the one who brought up them being henchmen.

Sally not having that many opportunities to show herself as leader material doesn't mean she isn't cut for it. As a matter of fact, I'd say, from what we've seen, things are pointing towards her being more than up for the task. And, back to us not having seen her in action that many times before- we haven't seen Alopex fighting alongside the Mutanimals either. Just because the plot hasn't demanded it yet doesn't mean it won't, that's true, but it also proves my point.

[ChosenOne]

You seem to misunderstand. My argument isn't that, because Ray and Herman are his henchmen, they're better suited as leaders. It's that them being his henchmen doesn't make them incapable to step up as leaders. No, being involved with the boss' work doesn't instantly make you leader material but it sure doesn't hurt. You were the one who brought up them being henchmen.

Sally not having that many opportunities to show herself as leader material doesn't mean she isn't cut for it. As a matter of fact, I'd say, from what we've seen, things are pointing towards her being more than up for the task. And, back to us not having seen her in action that many times before- we haven't seen Alopex fighting alongside the Mutanimals either. Just because the plot hasn't demanded it yet doesn't mean it won't, that's true, but it also proves my point.

No, what I mean is that they're too entrenched in Hob's ideals - having worked as his henchmen and confidants from the get-go - to be the change the Mutanimals need after what's coming. Sure, they're great soldiers and the team's heavy hitters now that Slash is gone, but having either of them as the leader would be the same as having Hob himself.

IDW have a tendency to surprise us with plot twists. One of the Mutanimals rising to the role of leader wouldn't be much of one, that's perfectly expected in most circumstances. But Alopex as head of the Mutanimals would be just as much of a twist as Splinter leading the Foot; she has displayed the empathy towards other mutants like I said, and her arc has slowly moved her from (literally) custom-made henchman to rogue warrior to finding a place with other mutants. There's a very logical next step for her to take here, and the alternative AFAWK would be to continue in the periphery of the plot like she has been for the last couple dozen issues. Not ideal by any means. Speaking of which, I wonder if Hob will be imprisoned rather than killed after his plan fails... A mutant prison, say, on Burnow Island, could be an interesting (and novel) concept. The Turtles have expressed doubt as to what to do with Leatherhead as well...

[Igglet]

No, what I mean is that they're too entrenched in Hob's ideals - having worked as his henchmen and confidants from the get-go - to be the change the Mutanimals need after what's coming. Sure, they're great soldiers and the team's heavy hitters now that Slash is gone, but having either of them as the leader would be the same as having Hob himself.

IDW have a tendency to surprise us with plot twists. One of the Mutanimals rising to the role of leader wouldn't be much of one, that's perfectly expected in most circumstances. But Alopex as head of the Mutanimals would be just as much of a twist as Splinter leading the Foot; she has displayed the empathy towards other mutants like I said, and her arc has slowly moved her from (literally) custom-made henchman to rogue warrior to finding a place with other mutants. There's a very logical next step for her to take here, and the alternative AFAWK would be to continue in the periphery of the plot like she has been for the last couple dozen issues. Not ideal by any means. Speaking of which, I wonder if Hob will be imprisoned rather than killed after his plan fails... A mutant prison, say, on Burnow Island, could be an interesting (and novel) concept. The Turtles have expressed doubt as to what to do with Leatherhead as well...

Who's to say Ray (or Herman, but I wouldn't put him as the leader) wouldn't draw a line? What these characters would do in these hypothetical scenarios we don't know the details of depends on a lot of factors. How would Old Hob even be 'overthrown'? Would the Mutanimals turn against him? Would there be a civil war among them? I'd say we genuinely don't know enough to jump to conclusions at this point.

I do get your point, though. Even if Ray was less radical than Old Hob, it still wouldn't be enough of a change now, would it? I'd still say Sally would be a far better choice than Alopex nonetheless, but who knows.

However, I don't think the leadership of the Mutanimals is that big of a deal. They're a family, and, frankly, while them changing their direction would surely be interesting, I don't think it'd be THAT big of a deal. Not even comparable to Splinter taking over the Foot Clan, as that, quite literally, turned the entire TMNT universe on its head, it made the TURTLES the major powerhouse, it changed everything.

Lastly, I disagree with the idea that they're going to overthrow Hob. Character development is a thing ever so present in IDW TMNT and he should be the best example of it. I'd say it'd be MUCH more compelling if Hob gave up on the war and managed to forgive the humans for everything they've done to Mutants, to himself, to Slash.

[ChosenOne]

Who's to say Ray (or Herman, but I wouldn't put him as the leader) wouldn't draw a line? What these characters would do in these hypothetical scenarios we don't know the details of depends on a lot of factors. How would Old Hob even be 'overthrown'? Would the Mutanimals turn against him? Would there be a civil war among them? I'd say we genuinely don't know enough to jump to conclusions at this point.

(...)

Lastly, I disagree with the idea that they're going to overthrow Hob. Character development is a thing ever so present in IDW TMNT and he should be the best example of it. I'd say it'd be MUCH more compelling if Hob gave up on the war and managed to forgive the humans for everything they've done to Mutants, to himself, to Slash.

Not overthrown, no, but the Turtles will probably have to take Hob down for whatever it is he tries to do next. It's very, very likely that he will be done as their leader in the near future, after he tries to enact his war-on-humans plan and obviously fails. It might even happen in the course of City at War. But I fully expect the Mutanimals to go on afterwards, and for that they'll need a new leader. The whole team will need an ideological hard swerve after that. That's the point of this whole mental exercise I've been doing.

[Igglet]

Not overthrown, no, but the Turtles will probably have to take Hob down for whatever it is he tries to do next. It's very, very likely that he will be done as their leader in the near future, after he tries to enact his war-on-humans plan and obviously fails. It might even happen in the course of City at War. But I fully expect the Mutanimals to go on afterwards, and for that they'll need a new leader. The whole team will need an ideological hard swerve after that. That's the point of this whole mental exercise I've been doing.

As I said, I'd still much prefer if they let Hob grow out of his kill all humans phase and for him to stay the 'leader'. Though I wouldn't even call him the leader, just the dad guy.

[ChosenOne]

As I said, I'd still much prefer if they let Hob grow out of his kill all humans phase and for him to stay the 'leader'. Though I wouldn't even call him the leader, just the dad guy.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it's just not in his character. Especially not now that the once pacifist Slash gave him the go-ahead to begin his crusade. Even in defeat, or especially in the face of it, Hob has always had the tendency to lash out viciously. Someone will have to put him down when all is said and done, for someone else's sake. My money's on either Raph or Splinter.

[Igglet]

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it's just not in his character. Especially not now that the once pacifist Slash gave him the go-ahead to begin his crusade. Even in defeat, or especially in the face of it, Hob has always had the tendency to lash out viciously. Someone will have to put him down when all is said and done, for someone else's sake. My money's on either Raph or Splinter.

Hob's went through a lot. Look and what he was like in the first issue. He's got an actual family now. He's got the most potential for growth out of all of the characters, in my opinion.

[ChosenOne]

Hob's went through a lot. Look and what he was like in the first issue. He's got an actual family now. He's got the most potential for growth out of all of the characters, in my opinion.

He (literally) lashed out at Mikey over losing a member of his family, though. And he's about to lash out at the rest of the world in a big, big way. I don't see him just being talked down after everything that's happened. I agree he has a lot of potential, but he's been amping up his anger over time, not reducing it.

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for to see what's next for Hob, after everything he's already been through.

[Igglet]

He (literally) lashed out at Mikey over losing a member of his family, though. And he's about to lash out at the rest of the world in a big, big way. I don't see him just being talked down after everything that's happened. I agree he has a lot of potential, but he's been amping up his anger over time, not reducing it.

That's the point, though. You don't just talk the guy into giving up. You don't just have him gradually become friendlier and friendlier with the humans (you could, but it wouldn't really fit this story). Him going further and further down this hole that he's dug for himself and going mad with vengeance, only to eventually reach his most desperate point and realize how far he's sunk and managing to get himself out of there.

[Utrommaniac]

It's almost like people getting themselves so tangled up in revenge/restoring their lost honor that it becomes their undoing is a theme in this series :P

[ChosenOne]

That's the point, though. You don't just talk the guy into giving up. You don't just have him gradually become friendlier and friendlier with the humans (you could, but it wouldn't really fit this story). Him going further and further down this hole that he's dug for himself and going mad with vengeance, only to eventually reach his most desperate point and realize how far he's sunk and managing to get himself out of there.

Except he doesn't seem the type to have some sort of epiphany. He was already pretty far gone, only keeping it together for the sake of his family, and it still didn't stop him from doing shady deals behind their back. Now that Slash gave him tacit approval to wage his war before dying and providing him with the perfect martyr figure... I shudder to even think what he'll do.

It's almost like people getting themselves so tangled up in revenge/restoring their lost honor that it becomes their undoing is a theme in this series :P

Like Koya. I really like her development in the Leo macro. They say the best way to truly know someone is to fight them, and those two are on their second rematch already... It's also quite possible that there's something more developing between them, which would be awesome on a lot of levels. Leo and Koya have the sort of relationship Raph and Alopex should've had but discarded early on for more cutesy, sappy stuff.

[Cloudrunner]

Leo and Koya have the sort of relationship Raph and Alopex should've had but discarded early on for more cutesy, sappy stuff.

I agree, they could've learned to understand each other through a rivalry. It would have been more believable than what we got. I don't have a problem with Raph and Alopex's relationship as it stands now and I think the two of them go well together in what few scenes we get. But the initial turn was rather awkward. Within that Northampton arc is another problem I have with her character in that she seems to very quickly give up any motivation as soon as the moment has passed.

She wanted revenge on Shredder, but as soon as she failed once and joined the turtles, that never comes up again. Even when she's in the Foot headquarters a few feet from him, not even so much as a glance. Then later after she breaks free of Kitsune, gaining some sort of spiritual power in the process, you'd think she'd have some sort of vendetta against the pantheon. But nope, not a word from her, despite multiple chances. In fact she hangs back for no reason while the turtles go and crash Toad Baron's party.

She is in desperate need of some kind of role in the story. Whether it's getting involved with the Mutanimals against Null or helping Raph through his dark path, give me something! Playing second fiddle sidekick to a character who has even less relevance to the story (Nobody) has done her absolutely no favors. And with her being my second favorite side character (next to Hob) in the series, it's frustrating seeing her potential wasted.

[ChosenOne]

She is in desperate need of some kind of role in the story. Whether it's getting involved with the Mutanimals against Null or helping Raph through his dark path, give me something! Playing second fiddle sidekick to a character who has even less relevance to the story (Nobody) has done her absolutely no favors. And with her being my second favorite side character (next to Hob) in the series, it's frustrating seeing her potential wasted.

You totally get it! It's like she was only put there as a stand-in for Ninjara, with no other purpose or goals beyond that. And Alopex could be so much more...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You totally get it! It's like she was only put there as a stand-in for Ninjara, with no other purpose or goals beyond that. And Alopex could be so much more...

Nah, she was fine until Sophie turned her into a fluffball.

I love most of Sophie's stuff, but "Northampton" was when Alopex became a cute widdle fluffball. She was still vicious and bloodthirsty during "City Fall", her micro-issue, and "Secret History."

Her transition to ally could have worked better if she wasn't drawn so cutesy-tootsy. Ugh. :tlol:

[ChosenOne]

Nah, she was fine until Sophie turned her into a fluffball.

I love most of Sophie's stuff, but "Northampton" was when Alopex became a cute widdle fluffball. She was still vicious and bloodthirsty during "City Fall", her micro-issue, and "Secret History."

Her transition to ally could have worked better if she wasn't drawn so cutesy-tootsy. Ugh. :tlol:

I hesitate to blame it on Sophie because that's right around the time when Alopex's primary goal (to turn against Shredder at a key moment as revenge for her family's deaths) was fulfilled. It's hardly a single artist's fault that she became mostly aimless afterwards, and only showed up when an extra fighter was required to flesh out the action. Look at Mikey: silly and cutesy most of the time, but he's a character with a clear-cut purpose. Alopex just needs a new goal and a new motivation post-Shredder, which she hasn't had so far.

[AlZarkovski]

Full preview here (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1812/11/tmntmacro4.htm).

[Utrommaniac]

Okay, but Kevin's absolutely killing it with his artstyle this time around!

He looks like he's trying to match more of the IDW "brand" of style than using his own (as he has with the special covers and that one issue we never speak of), and it looks pretty amazing.



Also, nice to see a return to Long&Tall Alopex.

[CyberCubed]

Hm, was hoping it'd mostly be about Casey/Raph, Alopex/Angel hog a little too much screentime for my liking most of the time.

[bushido]

I noticed that IDW now releases all their previews on tuesday. A bit useless...

[Igglet]

I agree with Utrommaniac about the art style, I'm absolutely loving everything about how this looks. Angel and Alopex (especially the latter) look ABSOLUTELY badass, it's great.

On the other hand, the way the characters speak feels a bit off, for me at least. I might be wrong, it just seems somewhat weird.

[ChosenOne]

Is that a Street Phantom cloak Nobody is wearing?

[oldmanwinters]

Nah, she was fine until Sophie turned her into a fluffball.

I love most of Sophie's stuff, but "Northampton" was when Alopex became a cute widdle fluffball. She was still vicious and bloodthirsty during "City Fall", her micro-issue, and "Secret History."

Her transition to ally could have worked better if she wasn't drawn so cutesy-tootsy. Ugh. :tlol:

I hesitate to blame it on Sophie because that's right around the time when Alopex's primary goal (to turn against Shredder at a key moment as revenge for her family's deaths) was fulfilled. It's hardly a single artist's fault that she became mostly aimless afterwards, and only showed up when an extra fighter was required to flesh out the action. Look at Mikey: silly and cutesy most of the time, but he's a character with a clear-cut purpose. Alopex just needs a new goal and a new motivation post-Shredder, which she hasn't had so far.

Make Alopex Gruff Again!
https://i.imgur.com/HuDpg5Dl.jpg (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2013/02/tmnt-secret-history-of-foot-clan-3.html)

[ChosenOne]

Make Alopex Gruff Again!

I agree! It's way past time for some literal Fox News!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hm, was hoping it'd mostly be about Casey/Raph, Alopex/Angel hog a little too much screentime for my liking most of the time.

Same. This really bugs me. I'm much less excited for the issue now, knowing Alopex and Nobody save the day.

I didn't want ANYBODY to save the day. Let Raph break out on his own.

Also, the dialogue was absolutely written by Kevin, wasn't it? :trolleye:

[ChosenOne]

Also, the dialogue was absolutely written by Kevin, wasn't it? :trolleye:

Jesus... I sort of skimmed over the dialogue and didn't notice until now. I swear, Kevin Eastman is Stan Lee's exact counterpart. Both are comic book legends, both are fond of dated writing, but while Lee injected his with charm and charisma, all Eastman does is make every character sound the same: corny as hell.

[Igglet]

Same. This really bugs me. I'm much less excited for the issue now, knowing Alopex and Nobody save the day.

I didn't want ANYBODY to save the day. Let Raph break out on his own.

Also, the dialogue was absolutely written by Kevin, wasn't it? :trolleye:

Honestly, while that's a pretty good guess, I'm gonna give the writers the benefit of the doubt and say that the story won't be that easy to guess from the get-go.

And yeah, the dialogue is REALLY corny. This issue has SO MUCH potential so I'm praying that the dialogue won't ruin it for me.

[bushido]

Another Dark Knight reference.

https://blurppy.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/1at-2.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4dfdfe3e36cd55b052d0ddc3c14115ed/tumblr_np1keuJ2pq1qjw1rjo1_1280.jpghttp://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1812/11/tmntmacro45.jpg

[Igglet]

How didn't I see that reference the first time I read that comic? That picture from The Dark Knight Returns even used to be my desktop background

[CyberCubed]

Was that "Taser Face" joke in the first line from Guardians of the Galaxy 2?

[AquaParade]

I am really fond of Kevin's dialogue. He so easily sells Raph and Casey's friendship to me whenever he is writing for them. I love the weird insults he's always using like "200 year old baboon" or "chuckleheads".

Yeah, I usually demand something more from dialogue, but it just feels natural to me when Kevin writes the turtles. I really enjoy it.

[Igglet]

I am really fond of Kevin's dialogue. He so easily sells Raph and Casey's friendship to me whenever he is writing for them. I love the weird insults he's always using like "200 year old baboon" or "chuckleheads".

Yeah, I usually demand something more from dialogue, but it just feels natural to me when Kevin writes the turtles. I really enjoy it.

It does work with Raph and Casey, but Alopex and Angel? Not really.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It does work with Raph and Casey, but Alopex and Angel? Not really.

Boy oh boy, I won't even give you THAT.

It doesn't work for anybody. Ugh. :tlol:

[Igglet]

Boy oh boy, I won't even give you THAT.

It doesn't work for anybody. Ugh. :tlol:

Hey, hey, I'm trying to please both sides here :tlol:

[ChosenOne]

It could work with Bebop and Rocksteady, but I don't think Eastman has ever written them. Could be wrong.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It could work with Bebop and Rocksteady, but I don't think Eastman has ever written them. Could be wrong.

...

It MIGHT. They'd be the only characters, that's for sure. But huh. It could work. :tgrin:

[AquaParade]

It does work with Raph and Casey, but Alopex and Angel? Not really.

Can't argue with you there. I can see how some view it as stilted or awkward. It's really just his Raph & Casey dynamic I love.

And, like I alluded to above, there's something incredibly charming, to me, about hearing Casey call the turtles "chuckleheads".

[Igglet]

Can't argue with you there. I can see how some view it as stilted or awkward. It's really just his Raph & Casey dynamic I love.

And, like I alluded to above, there's something incredibly charming, to me, about hearing Casey call the turtles "chuckleheads".

His style of writing just has that very 90s feel to it I think, which I personally don't mind with some characters but, with some others like Alopex and Angel, it doesn't.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

His style of writing just has that very 90s feel to it I think, which I personally don't mind with some characters but, with some others like Alopex and Angel, it doesn't.

It reads like an early 90's Image comic drawn by Rob Liefield.

[CyberCubed]

Kevin Eastman's writing hasn't changed at all since the 80's. Read any of the Mirage shorts he did most of which are collected in Shell Shock or Ultimate Collection 6, it's just how he writes dialogue.

Back in the 80's when his TMNT stories were nothing more than short gag comics or urban violence arcs it didn't matter, but it hasn't aged well. It's the same reason the two annuals were difficult to read.

[Sophie Campbell]

I hesitate to blame it on Sophie because that's right around the time when Alopex's primary goal (to turn against Shredder at a key moment as revenge for her family's deaths) was fulfilled. It's hardly a single artist's fault that she became mostly aimless afterwards, and only showed up when an extra fighter was required to flesh out the action. Look at Mikey: silly and cutesy most of the time, but he's a character with a clear-cut purpose. Alopex just needs a new goal and a new motivation post-Shredder, which she hasn't had so far.

Oh, I definitely take responsibility for cute fluffy Alopex. :tlol: Although I always draw Alopex as taller than the Turtles, Mateus is the one who later made her short and wee! And he and other artists took cues from me, nobody forced them, but yeah I got the ball rolling on Cute Alopex for sure. ;)

Okay, but Kevin's absolutely killing it with his artstyle this time around!

He looks like he's trying to match more of the IDW "brand" of style than using his own (as he has with the special covers and that one issue we never speak of), and it looks pretty amazing.

The art is by Ben Bishop! Kevin worked on the layouts but the finished art is Ben.

[ChosenOne]

Oh, I definitely take responsibility for cute fluffy Alopex. :tlol: Although I always draw Alopex as taller than the Turtles, Mateus is the one who later made her short and wee! And he and other artists took cues from me, nobody forced them, but yeah I got the ball rolling on Cute Alopex for sure. ;)

Oh, I meant writing/characterization-wise. Your first big contribution to this iteration happened to coincide with the moment when we saw a whole new side of Alopex that she never got to show as a member of the Foot Clan, for obvious reasons. The near-psychotic killer who liked to pretend her targets were the Turtles is a far cry from who she became without the Shredder's influence, so the progression of her arc sort of forced your hand there, I feel. Although one can also interpret it as a chicken-or-egg sort of thing... It's a perfect storm of events with probably no clear answer.

[ChosenOne]

Well, that was certainly much better than I anticipated! It's clear that Eastman didn't write the whole thing, especially...

...Tang Shen's monologue.

I wonder if Bishop's phase two will have anything to do with a certain mutant crocodilian?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah, this was kind of a weird one. Not as bad as I was expecting; not what I was hoping for, either.

I think this story shouldn't have been contained to a one-shot... the scope felt too big for one issue, and condensing it to this made it feel just kind of random. No idea what Bishop is doing or why, or how Raph is so strong to break out of all that hardware.

But the homeless Raph flashbacks and the Tang Shen conversation made it a worthwhile issue. Good, just not great.

[Igglet]

This was fun! Honestly, when I first read this issue, my thoughts were a lot more mixed than the second time. It's because my expectations for this issue were wildly different from what we actually got and I think some people might agree with me there.

Coming into this issue, I expected some big event that'd define the entire road ahead towards #100. Until the very last moment, I was expecting Bishop to drop some big bombshell about how he's created some megaweapon or something. This wasn't that sort of issue. Honestly, I'm happy with that. There are, however, still a few things that I wasn't too particularly fond of and I think anyone who read the issue can already guess what they are.

You can see how much Eastman loves writing Raph, honestly. This issue gave the guy so many badass moments. He's pretty much the physical manifestation of "Local man too angry to die". The action was great and the way he tore through the EPF guys just brings me back to my point about Eastman's love for Raph. Funnily enough, I'd say every Macro sort of builds up their respective turtle as the best one except the Donnie one where he just makes a ton of dumb mathematical mistakes (not saying that as a bad thing, just something I noticed).

And there's also obviously his internal struggle with always feeling pain, never getting an opportunity to rest, it's great, honestly. Him walking down the street, remembering Buck, I liked it. However, I'd say that a few of the lines are honestly so cheesy it physically hurt me, and I'm not talking about the lines he exchanged with Casey because that was obviously meant to be dumb, but rather his internal conversation with his mother, at least some parts of it. I genuinely didn't mind it too much, though.

I mentioned it before but Eastman just has that 90s way of writing dialogue and it's apparent. I'd actually say it worked really well with Raph and Casey, but Alopex and Angel? Not so much. Still, I actually liked the two of them in this issue. As for Casey, he might've actually been my favorite part of this whole issue if I'm being honest. I also like how the four of them are sort of a team of vigilantes, it's an interesting concept.

Curious to hear what everyone else thought about this issue. Overall, the Macro-Series has been absolutely great. My ranking of the issues is Mikey > Donnie > Raph > Leo.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Curious to hear what everyone else thought about this issue. Overall, the Macro-Series has been absolutely great. My ranking of the issues is Mikey > Donnie > Raph > Leo.

Oof. If I had to rank them, my favorite is easy... the other three are a little harder to nail down.

Leonardo is the favorite; it's quiet and consistently turns expectations on their heads. The closest IDW has ever come to Mirage, IMO.

I'll have to give second place to Michelangelo, for continuing to draw so much delicious conflict out of Splinter's leadership of the Foot Clan and how it affects the Turtles. My only problem with it would be how Mikey is, again, kind of stupidly naive about the situation and his ability to "rescue" the children.

Third and fourth place are a toss-up... I'll give the better ranking to Donatello, though, because nothing reads cheesy and out of character. Also, I've been dying for Donnie and Harold to get back together as tech buddies, and it made Metalhead the most compelling and formidable he's ever been. Also I loved callbacks to Future Don bailing on his family and the guilt Don's still carrying because of it.

And last and least, the Raphael issue. I despise Kevin Eastman's dialogue so very much, and this story really didn't deliver on the action or Bishop versus Raph fight I was hoping for. But like I previously mentioned, the homeless Raph flashbacks and the Tang Shen stuff were both true gold. So unlike the Annuals and Universe back-ups Kevin wrote, this issue I'll actually reread every time I reread the TMNT series.

[Igglet]

Oof. If I had to rank them, my favorite is easy... the other three are a little harder to nail down.

Leonardo is the favorite; it's quiet and consistently turns expectations on their heads. The closest IDW has ever come to Mirage, IMO.

I'll have to give second place to Michelangelo, for continuing to draw so much delicious conflict out of Splinter's leadership of the Foot Clan and how it affects the Turtles. My only problem with it would be how Mikey is, again, kind of stupidly naive about the situation and his ability to "rescue" the children.

Third and fourth place are a toss-up... I'll give the better ranking to Donatello, though, because nothing reads cheesy and out of character. Also, I've been dying for Donnie and Harold to get back together as tech buddies, and it made Metalhead the most compelling and formidable he's ever been. Also I loved callbacks to Future Don bailing on his family and the guilt Don's still carrying because of it.

And last and least, the Raphael issue. I despise Kevin Eastman's dialogue so very much, and this story really didn't deliver on the action or Bishop versus Raph fight I was hoping for. But like I previously mentioned, the homeless Raph flashbacks and the Tang Shen stuff were both true gold. So unlike the Annuals and Universe back-ups Kevin wrote, this issue I'll actually reread every time I reread the TMNT series.

Interesting! I actually mostly agree with your rankings (as you saw before) albeit for pretty different reasons.

I found Mikey being stupidly naive to be one of the best parts of the issue and it absolutely nailed his character. Mikey's SUPPOSED to be stupidly naive. The plot didn't treat it as him making the correct choice or whatever because it was apparent that he had no idea what he was doing and that the entire thing was doomed to fail from the start. He's naive, childish but always out to do the right thing. The issue just nailed his characterization for me and every moment was so fun, I swear I was giggling like a 6 year old as I was reading through it.

I think that you pretty much nailed my thoughts about the Donnie issue. It didn't really have anything that blew me away and the plot itself just felt like a complete side-story but the character interactions carried it all and made it one of the best issues of IDW TMNT in my opinion, the level of quality was consistently top notch.

And, honestly, I really didn't find Eastman's dialogue to be a problem and thought it fit really well for Casey and Raph. I was also hoping for a bit of a Raph vs. Bishop showdown but what we got didn't disappoint me whatsoever, and I absolutely agree that the Buck/Tang Shen stuff was great, though the latter had some really cheesy elements in it I think.

I've talked about why I don't like the Leo Macro a couple of times already so I'm not gonna rant about that again so I don't sound like an ass again :tlol:

[neatoman]

This was pretty great, I really like the additions to Raph's backstory.

I did spot one minor continuity error. Remember how Bishop told Mikey and Mondo he wasn't interested in studying mutants anymore and just wanted to throw them in a ditch? Guess he really changed his mind on that one.

[Igglet]

This was pretty great, I really like the additions to Raph's backstory.

I did spot one minor continuity error. Remember how Bishop told Mikey and Mondo he wasn't interested in studying mutants anymore and just wanted to throw them in a ditch? Guess he really changed his mind on that one.

I think that has to do with the Turtles being... well, the Turtles. Bishop mentions that they seem to be special for some reason.

[AquaParade]

So for those of you who dislike Kevin's dialogue, how do you feel about Tom Waltz's dialogue for the main series?

I'm in no way contending that Kevin is better than Tom at writing. Like I said, I understand the complaints regarding Kevin's dialogue.

That said, I much prefer Kevin's dialogue because while it's often basic/simple, it has a charm to it! Whereas, I'm guessing many prefer Tom's dialogue, and all due respect to the man (I enjoy his concept/plot ideas), I find it much harder to get through the dialogue than with Kevin. It just lacks any sort of personality or charm to me.

Strictly talking dialogue here. I wouldn't leave it up to Kevin to write/plot the entire series over Tom. And for the record, I think they're both talented dudes.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think that has to do with the Turtles being... well, the Turtles. Bishop mentions that they seem to be special for some reason.

Which we can assume is either QNA-related (Krang's involvement) or reincarnation-related. Or both.

I found Mikey being stupidly naive to be one of the best parts of the issue and it absolutely nailed his character. Mikey's SUPPOSED to be stupidly naive. The plot didn't treat it as him making the correct choice or whatever because it was apparent that he had no idea what he was doing and that the entire thing was doomed to fail from the start. He's naive, childish but always out to do the right thing. The issue just nailed his characterization for me and every moment was so fun, I swear I was giggling like a 6 year old as I was reading through it.

Eh, I was okay with Mikey being naive many issues ago, but I really wish he'd grow up a little. It's unrealistic to me that he could be SO naive still. It works, but it's a minor irritant to me. Nothing as bad as it's been in previous Splinter/Mikey conflict issues, though.

I think that you pretty much nailed my thoughts about the Donnie issue. It didn't really have anything that blew me away and the plot itself just felt like a complete side-story but the character interactions carried it all and made it one of the best issues of IDW TMNT in my opinion, the level of quality was consistently top notch.

Yeah, of the four character issues, Donnie's had the least magnitude to it. Leo didn't fight Karai and Koya, Mikey argued with Splinter, Raph went PG-rated berserk against Bishop... and Donnie had Metalhead and Grumpy Harold. Not the same level of existential threat. :tlol: But deeply compelling nonetheless!

I've talked about why I don't like the Leo Macro a couple of times already so I'm not gonna rant about that again so I don't sound like an ass again :tlol:

I don't remember your thoughts at all... gonna have to go dig that thread up again. :tlol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So for those of you who dislike Kevin's dialogue, how do you feel about Tom Waltz's dialogue for the main series?

I'm in no way contending that Kevin is better than Tom at writing. Like I said, I understand the complaints regarding Kevin's dialogue.

That said, I much prefer Kevin's dialogue because while it's often basic/simple, it has a charm to it! Whereas, I'm guessing many prefer Tom's dialogue, and all due respect to the man (I enjoy his concept/plot ideas), I find it much harder to get through the dialogue than with Kevin. It just lacks any sort of personality or charm to me.

Strictly talking dialogue here. I wouldn't leave it up to Kevin to write/plot the entire series over Tom. And for the record, I think they're both talented dudes.

Ugh, man. UGH UGH UGH. I cannot comprehend how you like Kevin's dialogue but not Tom's. :tlol: I've never had a problem with Tom's dialogue. Each character has a different voice, his Splinter is great, and the villains are always well done, too. I love it. But hey, to each their own!

Now, I have issues with pacing and "written-for-trade" stuff, but that's not a dialogue issue...

[AquaParade]

Ugh, man. UGH UGH UGH. I cannot comprehend how you like Kevin's dialogue but not Tom's. :tlol: I've never had a problem with Tom's dialogue. Each character has a different voice, his Splinter is great, and the villains are always well done, too. I love it. But hey, to each their own!

Now, I have issues with pacing and "written-for-trade" stuff, but that's not a dialogue issue...

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

[Igglet]

Which we can assume is either QNA-related (Krang's involvement) or reincarnation-related. Or both.



Eh, I was okay with Mikey being naive many issues ago, but I really wish he'd grow up a little. It's unrealistic to me that he could be SO naive still. It works, but it's a minor irritant to me. Nothing as bad as it's been in previous Splinter/Mikey conflict issues, though.



Yeah, of the four character issues, Donnie's had the least magnitude to it. Leo didn't fight Karai and Koya, Mikey argued with Splinter, Raph went PG-rated berserk against Bishop... and Donnie had Metalhead and Grumpy Harold. Not the same level of existential threat. :tlol: But deeply compelling nonetheless!



I don't remember your thoughts at all... gonna have to go dig that thread up again. :tlol:

Yeah, I agree with everything you said there except for the part about Mikey, him being so naive and nice is genuinely one of the main reasons why he's my favorite Turtle in the IDW run. In most versions, he's just the comedic relief, honestly. Here, though, he is always pushing to do the right thing no matter what happens, and that trait serves as both his biggest strength, as he's sort of the emotional core of this run and is always able to push the Turtles towards doing what's morally right, and his biggest weakness because sometimes it leads to him trying to do the impossible. It just makes his character so much more enjoyable in my eyes. I wonder what Slash's death will do to him, though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

The only time I hate Tom's dialogue is the FCBD issues, but that's not Tom, that's the nature of the business. "Free issue to generate new business and grab new readers... so STUFF THAT PUPPY FULLA EXPOSITION!" :trolleye::tlol:

[Igglet]

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

I have to disagree there. I don't particularly mind Eastman's dialogue but I much prefer Tom's. It all feels very natural to me, every character sounds different and it never feels weird, it's all really organic and natural to me. Eastman, on the other hand, makes every character sound exactly the same. Or, more specifically, every character sounds like Raph or Casey. As I said, I think it actually works REALLY well with the two of them but the rest of the cast? Ehhhh, not so much.

[Cloudrunner]

Oh, I definitely take responsibility for cute fluffy Alopex. :tlol: Although I always draw Alopex as taller than the Turtles, Mateus is the one who later made her short and wee! And he and other artists took cues from me, nobody forced them, but yeah I got the ball rolling on Cute Alopex for sure. ;)


I never had a problem with fluffy "cute" Alopex, art-wise. I think that fits her look as a fox more than the viscous monster she was in earlier issues (which made her look more like a wolf). I do, however, have an issue with how she was written in the Toad Baron arc. She was far too childish and bubbly compared to how she's written in the rest of the comic.

I understand she's just as young as the turtles and you maybe wanted to show a playful side. But I think you went too far towards Mikey when she's definitely more of a Leo or Raph. Or more specifically, she felt like the Alopex from your own comic rather than the IDW continuity.

I think the two parter with her and Raph infiltrating Null's base handled well. She's not above being playful and cracking jokes, but she's more disciplined than Raph. Which makes for a good dynamic where sometimes she's gotta smack him upside the head for being too brash.

[CyberCubed]

This was a really good issue, I think people's expectations of some Bishop fight or revelation was off, what we got was fine. Only thing I didn't really like was that Buck character retconned into Raph's backstory when we never heard about him before, but no big deal.

We got more insight into Raph's anger and his backstory and seeing him fight all the EPF agents was great. I also liked how Angel/Alopex didn't come to the rescue like it seemed, Raph got out on his own and they only caught up to him. Glad we didn't go with the cliche Angel/Alopex save the day again. Even Casey didn't really do anything, lol.

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

[Igglet]

This was a really good issue, I think people's expectations of some Bishop fight or revelation was off, what we got was fine. Only thing I didn't really like was that Buck character retconned into Raph's backstory when we never heard about him before, but no big deal.

We got more insight into Raph's anger and his backstory and seeing him fight all the EPF agents was great. I also liked how Angel/Alopex didn't come to the rescue like it seemed, Raph got out on his own and they only caught up to him. Glad we didn't go with the cliche Angel/Alopex save the day again. Even Casey didn't really do anything, lol.

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

I don't think Buck was retconned into his backstory. That part of Raph's history was an absolute blank slate. We just got more info.

And yeah, I do agree with everything you said tbh, though I doubt any of these new characters will be important.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

I wanted the "Turtles captured by Bishop" to be a much bigger story arc. But then, I guess that's what the Slash story arc was... just the other (bigger) Turtle, with a much worse outcome. :tlol:

And I'd assume only Ravenwood and (obviously) Bishop are important. Shevlin and this new dude are just second-tier. We'll keep seeing them, but nobody really cares about them. They're just down the food chain, keeping the evil wheels turning.

[TomWaltz]

So for those of you who dislike Kevin's dialogue, how do you feel about Tom Waltz's dialogue for the main series?

I'm in no way contending that Kevin is better than Tom at writing. Like I said, I understand the complaints regarding Kevin's dialogue.

That said, I much prefer Kevin's dialogue because while it's often basic/simple, it has a charm to it! Whereas, I'm guessing many prefer Tom's dialogue, and all due respect to the man (I enjoy his concept/plot ideas), I find it much harder to get through the dialogue than with Kevin. It just lacks any sort of personality or charm to me.

Strictly talking dialogue here. I wouldn't leave it up to Kevin to write/plot the entire series over Tom. And for the record, I think they're both talented dudes.

Waltz is a hack!

And his hairline is receding, so he's a half-bald hack to boot!

:D

Talk soon...

Tom W.

[martinitolove]

Didn't like this issue, but I don't need to ;)

I hope phase two will be EPF creating Tokka!!! Just mix some Slash' DNA with Raph's!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Didn't like this issue, but I don't need to ;)

I hope phase two will be EPF creating Tokka!!! Just mix some Slash' DNA with Raph's!

I'd be down for that. We are all down one mutant snapping turtle, and IDW needs to bring in Tokka and Rahzar at some point (I'd be happy with appearances in the next Bebop & Rocksteady mini-series, personally!)...

[Utrommaniac]

I'm more into the idea of the idea of a Mata Mata type for a new mutant turtle (antagonist)
https://www.angelfishaquatics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/apd01/images/juvenile-mata-mata-turtle-chelus-fimbriata--2839-p.jpg
With that big ol' weird head.

#LetRaphBeAFarmer

[neatoman]

That reminded me, ain't it weird that nobody has tried to do a TMNT story with the World Turtle?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm more into the idea of the idea of a Mata Mata type for a new mutant turtle (antagonist)
https://www.angelfishaquatics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/apd01/images/juvenile-mata-mata-turtle-chelus-fimbriata--2839-p.jpg
With that big ol' weird head.

Oooooooooooooooh, I like that idea. Make Tokka a mata-mata! :tgrin:

[CyberCubed]

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is. The new pizza girl looked oddly a lot like April...why.

[Igglet]

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is. The new pizza girl looked oddly a lot like April...why.

Maybe Woody had a day off?

[AquaParade]

Waltz is a hack!

And his hairline is receding, so he's a half-bald hack to boot!

:D

Talk soon...

Tom W.

Mine is receding as well

[Ninjinister]

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is.

New York City is big. It was probably closer to Central Park than Rupert's is. Plus it gave us a sweet Keno name-drop.

Another random name drop... on the two-page spread, check out the shoulder of the EPF goon grabbing Raph's head

[Utrommaniac]

Regarding the things with Mike, I don't really think he's naive anymore. Wanting to stop his father from converting children into soldiers isn't naive. Because of the situation with Slash - and perhaps himself to some degree - he's just sick of seeing people being turned into tools for violent means, especially when they're completely innocent. Like children.


I'd think his experience with Hob working with Hun and Slash leaving because of it really kicked his teeth in and forced him to muscle up. But also to straighten out his own morals into something more tangible.

[Igglet]

Regarding the things with Mike, I don't really think he's naive anymore. Wanting to stop his father from converting children into soldiers isn't naive. Because of the situation with Slash - and perhaps himself to some degree - he's just sick of seeing people being turned into tools for violent means, especially when they're completely innocent. Like children.


I'd think his experience with Hob working with Hun and Slash leaving because of it really kicked his teeth in and forced him to muscle up. But also to straighten out his own morals into something more tangible.

That's not the part of him that I consider naive, though. It's the way he did it. He escaped with those kids, not even having thought through where they were gonna go, he wanted to raise the kids despite pretty much being a kid himself which is a pretty childish thing to do, etc. And really, the fact that it all turned out well comes down to him getting lucky and Splinter finding them.

[Utrommaniac]

Ah yeah, that is a good point. Still, I do think his heart was very much in the right place. His execution, however...


I still wouldn't call that total naivete; he's getting better.

[Igglet]

Ah yeah, that is a good point. Still, I do think his heart was very much in the right place. His execution, however...


I still wouldn't call that total naivete; he's getting better.

Mikey is pretty much the living manifestation of "Good idea, bad execution" OR "Bad idea, good execution". There's nothing in-between with the guy.

[BISHART]

Okay, but Kevin's absolutely killing it with his artstyle this time around!

He looks like he's trying to match more of the IDW "brand" of style than using his own (as he has with the special covers and that one issue we never speak of), and it looks pretty amazing.



Also, nice to see a return to Long&Tall Alopex.

Pssst. Kevin didn’t draw this issue. But I’m glad you love it!

[Igglet]

When everyone loves your art but then they start praising Eastman for it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1Ftw4ly-jL._SY355_.jpg

[neatoman]

Another random name drop... on the two-page spread, check out the shoulder of the EPF goon grabbing Raph's head

Uhm, OK. Seems a little random.
Is he also a robot?

[CyberCubed]

Probably just an Easter egg thrown in by the artist, but cool nonetheless.

[daggio]

I know it's been said that this issue takes place after "Battle Lines", but I'll be curious to see what Bishop is using as an android body (if one at all) the next time we see him in the ongoing series. Cuz if he's walking around in another body that looks exactly like the one he had before then we know that has those things in storage ready to go :lol:. But if he's walking around in something completely different, or even no android body at all, then we know that the Raph Macro has to occur after "Battle Lines".

[funatic]

I’m way late to the party reading this... but speaking of Easter Eggs did anyone else notice that the punks roughing up Buck were basically the main characters from “Drawing Blood”, the other project Eastman and Bishop just published?