Should "hate speech" be criminalized in the U.S.?

[Andrew NDB]

Should "hate speech" be criminalized and legislated against in the U.S., in spite of the First Amendment? If so, who should define what it is?

hBPbd_JYIdw

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It shouldn't be illegal. Democracy must accept even the opinions of its enemies.

[AquaParade]

What I find tricky is finding a way to distinctly label speech that incites violence/danger (and therefore, what can truly be defined as "violent/dangerous") vs speech that could be labeled hateful, yet isn't putting anyone in harms way.

I generally believe that if it isn't a call to violence or harm, we must allow it to be spoken. We are free to disagree, ignore, or rebuke.

It really is a complicated subject.

[Prowler]

Who decides what "hate speech" is, exactly? I mean, what if someday making jokes about a certain race/ethnicity is considered "hate speech"? It's really open to interpretation, it seems.

Could you give examples of what sort of "hate speech" you have in mind? In some European countries, such as Germany and France, publicly denying the Holocaust is considered "hate speech" and it's punishable by law. Is that the type of hate speech you're referring to or other examples? I'm sorry, but the video is nearly 50 minutes long and I'm not gonna watch it in its entirety.

Anyway, I'm not American as everyone knows already. So I will abstain from voting and won't be telling you guys how to run your yard.

[Coola Yagami]

I'd say no because there's the slippery slope that even a valid criticism could be called hate speech.

Think the whole 'you're automatically a misogynist for not liking the female Ghostbusters movie' but cranked to 11 and you get actual jail time for voicing your opinion.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'd say that any country should be open and honest about what it stands for.

If any country claims to uphold freedom of speech, then all speech must be free, no exceptions, no matter how unpopular it is. Claiming freedom of speech, and then surpressing certains forms of speech because its "hateful" or "harming someone" is an act of hypocrisy, lying and cowardice.

[Leo656]

No, I don't believe in criminalizing words. Words are an extension of thoughts, and you can't police that, either. Much as many wish that could be done.

I mean, in theory, if I simply said to someone, "I hate you", that would now be a criminal act, under the broadest possible definitions. How could it not? It's literally "hate speech", because you told the person you hate them. Obviously, those in favor would literally want it to mean "Don't be racist/sexist/whatever-ist", but again, "hate speech" doesn't get any more clear than simply saying "I hate you" to someone. And under the broadest application they'd still be punished for it. Which is nuts.

[Autbot_Benz]

Id say no too because all the easily Triggered SJW's would say everything is hate speech and what not :lol:

[Leo656]

Many of them already do.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Id say no too because all the easily Triggered SJW's would say everything is hate speech and what not :lol:

You voted Yes :tlol:

[Autbot_Benz]

You voted Yes :tlol:

That was before I thought of what the SJW regime would do if they had that power.

[Kenwatanabesclone]

That was before I thought of what the SJW regime would do if they had that power.

No disrespect to your personal opinion, but why'd you pick yes in the first place? Everybody has a different view of what's right and wrong. What's hate speech to one might be a light hearted joke to another. Taking away the right to say certain things because a couple people get their feelings hurt doesn't sound very nice. Like someone said above, I feel everyone should be able to say what's on their mind as long as it doesn't cause violence or illegal activity.

Also, I want to clarify that I don't agree with people using words with the intent of offending others, and I'm not trying to justify it in my post. I just want everybody to be able to speak their views/opinions/beliefs. The definition of "hate speech" can be very loose so I disagree with it being criminalized.

[Leo656]

Besides, if we outlaw "hate speech", how will kids on XBox Live and PSN communicate with each other?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Besides, if we outlaw "hate speech", how will kids on XBox Life and PSN communicate with each other?

Threatening to defile each other's mothers isn't hate speech unless their moms are non-white. So the little punks should be okay.

[Leo656]

I banged your Mom.

D'you hate me yet? :trazz:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I banged your Mom.

D'you hate me yet? :trazz:

Dad? :teek:

[Leo656]

Dad? :teek:

"...................LIQUID?!?!" :teek:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/687/punished_snake.jpg

[IndigoErth]

No. But people who like to spout off in that way need to get it through their thick and presumably somewhat empty skulls that not being arrested/charged for it is where the "right" to do it ends.

Freedom of speech does not grant them a right to not be called out on their behavior. And it doesn't require others to just tolerate your garbage in silence if you're being an ass.

[Candy Kappa]

"...................LIQUID?!?!" :teek:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/687/punished_snake.jpg

He looks nothing like Sean Connery, FAKE SNAKE!

[Leo656]

He looks nothing like Sean Connery, FAKE SNAKE!

That's funny for multiple reasons if you're familiar with MGS V. :lol:

[Candy Kappa]

I am, I have a very unhealthy obsession with the Metal Gear franchise. :lol:

[Leo656]

So. You ALSO constantly repeat things back to people in the form of a question, huh? :lol:

Today a friend asked what she should name her upcoming daughter, and I told her to name it Sniper Wolf. I'm either the Best or Worst friend anyone ever had, depending.

[Candy Kappa]

At least Sniper Wolf is miles better then Abcde

[Leo656]

If I'm ever able to get my birth certificate amended, I think I'm gonna go whole hog; just change my handle to "Big Boss" and just make everyone deal with it. :tcool:

[Andrew NDB]

When are they finally going to make Metal Gear 3? So many spinoffs since 2... :)

[Leo656]

Part 4 was "Part 3", you heathen. :lol:

Try and keep up, we're saving the world (by taking it over with nukes), here!
--------

EDIT: I just noticed you said "Metal Gear 3" and not "Metal Gear SOLID 3." But my joke is still funny.

Metal Gear Solid 1 is "Metal Gear 3". :trazz: Between MGS and Street Fighter, Japanese people must be almost as bad at math as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. :lol: :trazz:

.... Dated references AND topical political humor? Dennis Miller would be pissing himself right now.

[IMJ]

I'd say no because there's the slippery slope that even a valid criticism could be called hate speech.

Think the whole 'you're automatically a misogynist for not liking the female Ghostbusters movie' but cranked to 11 and you get actual jail time for voicing your opinion.

Id say no too because all the easily Triggered SJW's would say everything is hate speech and what not :lol:

Many of them already do.

Exactly on all accounts.

[Sumac]

No.
Aside from the cases, when it's directly insights violence, it's hard to define what "hate speech" is, and as soon as someone will try to do that it will lead to the censorship and abuse of power. Especially with authoritarian leadership.

[AquaParade]

Mmm Metal Gear.

[Andrew NDB]

Metal Gear Solid 1 is "Metal Gear 3"

Says who? Everyone considered Street Fighter Alpha to be "Street Fighter 3" until they went and made Street Fighter 3.

Same with, after Grand Theft Auto 3, we had Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and San Andreas. Those games weren't spinoffs, or extensions of 3... they were new games. Then one day, poof, Grand Theft Auto 4 comes out.

[Leo656]

Kojima says.

For one thing, it directly continues the story out from Metal Gear 2. Although it retcons the ending to say that Big Boss told Snake he was his father, which doesn't actually happen onscreen in MG2.

Furthermore, MGS was internally known as "Metal Gear 3" very early in the development, but they figured people would be dissuaded from playing it if they'd never played MG 1 or 2. Also, the jump from 2D sprites to 3D polygons gave them the loose idea for the "Solid" name, in lieu of calling it "Part 3" of anything.

It's mostly marketing. But indeed, officially, MGS is "Metal Gear 3". Kojima-san and others have gone into this many times.

It's a dead brand now, anyway, so it's not like it matters. Like sure, they could technically set a game in between MG2 and MGS1, but seeing how Snake was retired and mushing dogs in Alaska most of that time, there'd be very little of importance to cover.

And they shouldn't keep it going without Kojima, anyway.

[Candy Kappa]

If only we got remakes of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake on the Fox Engine instead of Survive (yuck). Although, MGS already redid a lot from MG2

[Andrew NDB]

What about this game?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b2/NES-E2-USA-REV-A.jpg/250px-NES-E2-USA-REV-A.jpg

Metal Gear 1.5? Or Metal Gear 2.5?

[Candy Kappa]

Non-canon sequel to Metal Gear 1

[Andrew NDB]

Non-canon sequel to Metal Gear 1

Is it really contradicted by anything afterward? I've always wondered.

[Leo656]

Yes, very.

[Candy Kappa]

Is it really contradicted by anything afterward? I've always wondered.

Well, there are no mentions of Snake's Revenge plot in MG2 or any other installment. Plus both games takes place 3 years after the first game and have several contradictions with each other, like in MG2, Snake is retired while in SR he's still in FOXHOUND

Metal Gear Ghost Babel is also non-canon

[Leo656]

If only we got remakes of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake on the Fox Engine instead of Survive (yuck). Although, MGS already redid a lot from MG2

That was the next big plan, before the infamous falling out with Konami. Kojima had talked openly about rebuilding MG1 and 2 on the Fox engine - possibly as one game that takes place over a few years - so the entire series would be consistent, visually and gameplay-wise (more or less).

He dragged his feet on it a bit, because he said he'd have to re-write the entire story to compensate for some story discrepancies that had crept in over the years (such as the aforementioned "I am your father" moment between Snake and Big Boss; oft-referenced in MGS1, but never actually happened in-game). And of course, halfway through MGS V he and Konami had their infamous "F*ck you/F*ck you too" moment. So it'll never happen. :ohwell:

I'm halfway through MGS V on my "full series in story order" playthrough, and I gotta say... playing Metal Gear 1 after this one is gonna be a total mindf*ck. :trazz: Going from the biggest game in the series to the smallest, the most advanced to the most primitive... yeah, that's gonna be weird. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Wasn't Kojima making some weird game with Norman Reedus that fell apart?

[Turo602]

Wasn't Kojima making some weird game with Norman Reedus that fell apart?

Silent Hills, yeah. But they're working on Death Stranding now.

[Leo656]

Wasn't Kojima making some weird game with Norman Reedus that fell apart?

lZJu-wyoWr4

Kojima AND Guillermo del Toro, to boot.

Would've been amazing. Too bad.

[Powder]

It didn't fall apart... There are news articles about updates as active as 12 hours old.

"Death Stranding" is the title.

[Leo656]

Is it still the same game Silent Hills would've been, though? I confess, I haven't been following it that closely.

[Turo602]

Is it still the same game Silent Hills would've been, though? I confess, I haven't been following it that closely.

It's not.
Look at me, I reached the character limit.

[Leo656]

Mmm Metal Gear.

:lol: How did I miss this earlier? :lol: Sorry brah.

Uhhhh, I mean... "Metal... GEAR?!" :trazz:;)

[Sumac]

What about this game?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b2/NES-E2-USA-REV-A.jpg/250px-NES-E2-USA-REV-A.jpg

Metal Gear 1.5? Or Metal Gear 2.5?
Sequel for the NES Metal Gear made without Kojima participation.
Considered non-canon, though, some ideas from it intentionally or not, ended up in "canon" games.

[DarkFell]

'Hate Speech' thread meets Metal Gear players. This is better than the Sonic Thread.

Stay awesome, you guys. :thumbsup:

[Leo656]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/330/706/b2d.png

Hey, Y'know what's a GREAT way to minimize "hate speech"?

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65089284/vocal-cord-parasites.jpg

:tgrin::tgrin::tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

[Sumac]

'Hate Speech' thread meets Metal Gear players. This is better than the Sonic Thread.

Stay awesome, you guys. :thumbsup:
I bet some Metal Gear players will find a DEEP meaning in this. :lol:

[Leo656]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/b/b8/Metal_Gear_Rising_Revengeance_-_It_Has_to_Be_This_Way_%28Armstrong_Final_Form_Bos s_Battle%29_Extended/revision/latest?cb=20140802090315

[Candy Kappa]

Rising was a lot of fun, bit short though. But very satisfying cutting guys up into ribbons

[Sumac]

Rising was mediocre, IMO.
Wasn't fun of gameplay and the game felt very short and its second half looked ugly and felt very rushed.

[Leo656]

Loved it. Not at all like "classic" MGS but it felt just right for a Raiden-centric spin-off. Although I would have loved to have seen the original storyline they had planned, showing what happened to Raiden between MGS 2 and 4.

[Andrew NDB]

Kojima says.

For one thing, it directly continues the story out from Metal Gear 2. Although it retcons the ending to say that Big Boss told Snake he was his father, which doesn't actually happen onscreen in MG2.

Furthermore, MGS was internally known as "Metal Gear 3" very early in the development, but they figured people would be dissuaded from playing it if they'd never played MG 1 or 2. Also, the jump from 2D sprites to 3D polygons gave them the loose idea for the "Solid" name, in lieu of calling it "Part 3" of anything.

What about stuff like (the recent) Double Dragon 4? Surely there could be a Metal Gear 3 done in similarly retro fashion. Some side story.

[Sumac]

Loved it. Not at all like "classic" MGS but it felt just right for a Raiden-centric spin-off. Although I would have loved to have seen the original storyline they had planned, showing what happened to Raiden between MGS 2 and 4.
Some parts of it has been salvaged for the Phantom Pain, like resurrected Volgin, who has been planned for the original MGR.

[Leo656]

What about stuff like (the recent) Double Dragon 4? Surely there could be a Metal Gear 3 done in similarly retro fashion. Some side story.

I doubt there'd be any interest. MG 1 & 2 are already the "black sheep" of the series when taken as a whole, and further, "nothing happened" in the time period between MG2 and MGS1. Any side story they come up with wouldn't be very satisfying, because all the story and characters would have to fit in between other games without actually contributing anything significant, on account of those things never being mentioned again in MGS 1, 2, or 4.

We've already seen a little bit of this with some of the prequel games, such as Phantom Pain. Lots of the events and even the main villain have been described by some players as being very unsatisfying because they ultimately added very little of consequence to the story. It "had" to be that way, since we've never heard of those characters or events ever again in the timeline, so their overall impact was lacking, on account of how they had to be "Qui-Gon Jinn'ed". Great game, but the story suffers from being squeezed in between other, "more important" events. Any game set between MG2 and MGS1 would have the exact same problem, leaving me to question what the point would be, aside from "Retro for Retro's Sake".

Fans don't want another 8-bit inspired, top-down Metal Gear; they wanted a 3D HD remake of MG1 & 2. Like, I don't talk to every fan, obviously, but MG fans are never quiet about what they want.

Metal Gear Survive is, allegedly, not good. So I don't want anyone else playing in Kojima's sandbox. Metal Gear is his thing; without him, they can technically do whatever since they own it but it's absolutely not "Metal Gear."

Some parts of it has been salvaged for the Phantom Pain, like resurrected Volgin, who has been planned for the original MGR.

I was not aware of that. This makes slightly more sense. Either way, huh, 'magine that.