Your honest thoughts on David Wise

[Prowler]

Be 100% honest.

I'm thankful to him for writing some of the best FW series episodes, even though he wasn't the one who wrote the Shredderville episode! But I also think he has a huge ego and tries to claim too much credit for "creating" the Turtles as we know them today, which leads me to think he's a bit arrogant.

What about you?

[neatoman]

I have a very negative opinion of him.

It would be one thing if he was simply a terrible writer, then I wouldn't really care about him beyond thinking his work sucks. What makes it worse is that he's a bad writer who thinks rewriting (already sold) scripts to fit unrelated shows is perfectly fine because his audience are children. As a student of creative writing and drama, that really shows how little passion and respect he has for the craft and the audience. What's even worse than that is his willingness to steal credit and conjure up a narrative in which he's essentially the creator of TMNT, despite that being objectively wrong and there being conflicting stories about how the show's alterations came about.

I guess the only positive thing I can say about him is that the episodes of Fred Wolf he wrote are the least boring, even if they are complete nonsense taken from other shows.

[Wesley]

I don’t know much about him tbh. I guess I neither like nor dislike him. I enjoyed most of the episodes he wrote for the Fred Wolf series. Him recycling scripts doesn’t bother me, as I never watched any other shows he was involved with. He does come off as a bit arrogant in interviews alright, though maybe he’s just being sarcastic.

[Prowler]

I have a very negative opinion of him.

It would be one thing if he was simply a terrible writer, then I wouldn't really care about him beyond thinking his work sucks. What makes it worse is that he's a bad writer who thinks rewriting (already sold) scripts to fit unrelated shows is perfectly fine because his audience are children. As a student of creative writing and drama, that really shows how little passion and respect he has for the craft and the audience. What's even worse than that is his willingness to steal credit and conjure up a narrative in which he's essentially the creator of TMNT, despite that being objectively wrong and there being conflicting stories about how the show's alterations came about.

I guess the only positive thing I can say about him is that the episodes of Fred Wolf he wrote are the least boring, even if they are complete nonsense taken from other shows.
He sure loved to recycle scripts. I can see why that would annoy people who watched other shows written by him.

[Andrew NDB]

He's fairly pompous, responsible for creating and popularizing pretty much all the things I don't like in TMNT (which isn't necessarily a slight against him... if he didn't, someone else would've) and getting butt-hurt when he doesn't get enough credit.

Also, a pretty staunch liberal.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't care about him personally at all.

Enjoy the episodes he wrote though immensely, and I thank him for helping make the 80s tmnt show into the show I love today.

[Prowler]

He's fairly pompous, responsible for creating and popularizing pretty much all the things I don't like in TMNT (which isn't necessarily a slight against him... if he didn't, someone else would've) and getting butt-hurt when he doesn't get enough credit.

Also, a pretty staunch liberal.
How do you even know that LMAO. I've literally only read things he said in relation TMNT. Have no idea what he thinks about other issues, including that big one, nor do I care much tbh.

[Andrew NDB]

How do you even know that LMAO. I've literally only read things he said in relation TMNT. Have no idea what he thinks about other issues, including that big one, nor do I care much tbh.

He's one of those people who enjoys posting daily "Look at the awful thing Trump just said today!"/"ANY DAY NOW!" kind of stuff over social media.

[Prowler]

He's one of those people who enjoys posting daily "Look at the awful thing Trump just said today!"/"ANY DAY NOW!" kind of stuff over social media.

Tbh that kinda stuff makes you look cool nowadays, so I'm not surprised that celebrities and other people with some notoriety might do that just to get a few more fans.

[neatoman]

He's one of those people who enjoys posting daily "Look at the awful thing Trump just said today!"/"ANY DAY NOW!" kind of stuff over social media.

So... Like MovieBob except he used to have an audience of children who only payed attention because they didn't yet understand his content was crap?

... Scratch that, he's exactly like MovieBob...

Tbh that kinda stuff makes you look cool nowadays, so I'm not surprised that celebrities and other people with some notoriety might do that just to get a few more fans.

Not a Trump supporter by any means, but the criticism of Trump and the effort to "take him down" is rather tired. Elections are starting up next year, so he could very well not be the president around this time in two years.

[IndigoErth]

Then why can't it be left that he's the easily butthurt, egotistical type, rather than throwing the word "liberal" in there as if it's supposed to explain everything. (edit: He sound more like someone who grew up a spoiled brat.)


Personally, I never knew much about him either as I don't tend to look all that far into the people behind this stuff, but going by what neatoman said... wow. Never fails to amaze me how anyone can have zero conscious. (Honestly, based on some similar personality traits you'd think he'd LIKE Trump.)

[Andrew NDB]

Not a Trump supporter by any means, but the criticism of Trump and the effort to "take him down" is rather tired. Elections are starting up next year, so he could very well not be the president around this time in two years.

It's true. Elizabeth Warren could win. :lol:

[Prowler]

Well, how did a thread about David Wise turn into politics? best we go back to David Wise, the man himself, and his contributions, whether good or bad, to TMNT. ;)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Back to David Wise, Jephael interviewed him on 10 December 2010 and published it on his fansite.

http://www.jephael.com/cartoon.shtml

[MikeandRaph87]

I don't know much about him as a person, but I do know he likes to take credit for TMNT's success. Yet Eastman and Laird did come up with concepts that are introduced in the 1987 cartoon like henchmutants Bebop and Rocksteady and robotic foot soldiers yet what was David Wise original? Dimension X, rock soldiers maybe the Turtle Van? I love what he did as a great innovator no matter what he did create or was simply given. He made gold out of it.

[Andrew NDB]

Back to David Wise, Jephael interviewed him on 10 December 2010 and published it on his fansite.

http://www.jephael.com/cartoon.shtml

We interviewed him in 2013 for the Shellshocked Podcast. Here (http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/shellshocked/episode05.mp3).

[Shinigami]

I sort of cringe when I hear him talk. He gives himself a lot of credit for stuff he probably didn’t decide on or make up.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It must have been embarassing for him to hear the fans remember so much more about his own works than he does.

[Egon1982]

And what do you think of the Batman TAS episodes he wrote?

[Leo656]

I've hardly ever thought about him much at all, but I've rolled my eyes at a few interviews I've read. More recently I've seen him say some downright laughable things on Andrew's FB page, which makes me very glad I've never spoken to him myself. :lol:

To be perfectly honest he seems like a giant tw*t. F*ck 'em.

[Egon1982]

I've hardly ever thought about him much at all, but I've rolled my eyes at a few interviews I've read. More recently I've seen him say some downright laughable things on Andrew's FB page, which makes me very glad I've never spoken to him myself. :lol:

To be perfectly honest he seems like a giant tw*t. F*ck 'em.

Sometimes he is a ******* but you gotta admit the Strange Case of Bruce Wayne, Clock King and If your so smart why aren't you rich are excellent episodes of Batman.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Sometimes he is a ******* but you gotta admit the Strange Case of Bruce Wayne, Clock King and If your so smart why aren't you rich are excellent episodes of Batman.

It shows what cartoon writers can do when they are no longer limited by strict censors.

[Aaronardo]

Guy's got one hell of an ego. But I imagine you would too if you were called the "Mozart of Cinema" at age 8. Doesn't excuse his massively arrogant persona, though.

His TMNT stuff is fine for what it is, I prefer his Batman episodes though.

[Vegita-San]

mostly been nice to me. but had one odd interaction with him on FB recently that I decided might be time to lead to an unfriending.

was trying to deliver a compliment on a line that I THINK was one of his, and he kind of went on a mini rant. I Think all this political trump stuff is starting to give him derangement syndrome too. he was not a happy person in the last two years if you read some of his and his wifes feeds.

all in all i don't really have anything against him. he did write some of the better episodes.

[pferreira]

I've already talked about him at great length over in the Random Thoughts thread so I would rather not repeat my views on him as a person again. If you want my opinion on him go check out that thread.

So... Like MovieBob except he used to have an audience of children who only payed attention because they didn't yet understand his content was crap?As a fan of his episodes (as well as other ones) that's kind of harsh, even for you neatoman? :-?

Also, a pretty staunch liberal.You could say that Andrew...you could say that... :o

Then why can't it be left that he's the easily butthurt, egotistical type, rather than throwing the word "liberal" in there as if it's supposed to explain everything. (edit: He sound more like someone who grew up a spoiled brat.)Oh no the guy is definitely liberal, he's liberal which today is even worse when you consider how half of the standard left have become more like the far left. There are a couple of people with as extreme left values as him as his Facebook friends.

How do you even know that LMAO. I've literally only read things he said in relation TMNT. Have no idea what he thinks about other issues, including that big one, nor do I care much tbh.

Typical Facebook posts by David (not criticising here, this is just what he posts):

- Godzilla references

- Photos of what film he's currently watching (he's doing an A-Z for the past few years)

- Photos of his pet dog

- Photos of what he's currently eating

- Posts/quotes comparing Richard Nixon to Donald Trump

Occasionally he posts something to do with Batman or TMNT but that list is mostly what he posts for better or worse.

Guy's got one hell of an ego. But I imagine you would too if you were called the "Mozart of Cinema" at age 8. Doesn't excuse his massively arrogant persona, though.He was taught by Harlan Ellison and is the same kind of friendly person Ellison was. Make of what what you will. :roll:

To be perfectly honest he seems like a giant tw*t. F*ck 'em.Well I talked at you and netoman at great length about him so you're not far off.

was trying to deliver a compliment on a line that I THINK was one of his, and he kind of went on a mini rant. I Think all this political trump stuff is starting to give him derangement syndrome too. he was not a happy person in the last two years if you read some of his and his wifes feeds.Probably had worse myself from him. One wonders if he would act this way if he didn't have fans :)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Wasn't it common among cartoon writers at the time to recycle their own scripts for different cartoons?

[pferreira]

Wasn't it common among cartoon writers at the time to recycle their own scripts for different cartoons?Any writer is guilty of it regardless of when or what type of programming.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I recall watching the Ducktales episode Attack of the 50 Foot Webby and recognizing its similairities with Attack of the 50 Foot Irma.

[pferreira]

I recall watching the Ducktales episode Attack of the 50 Foot Webby and recognizing its similairities with Attack of the 50 Foot Irma.Fred Wolf actually worked on DuckTales first season before producing TMNT.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Fred Wolf actually worked on DuckTales first season before producing TMNT.

That episode of Ducktales is season 3.

[neatoman]

I don't think any of his episodes are actually well written but if I were to pick out one I personally find annoying, it's Night of the Dark Turtle. I don't actually think it's the worst episode he wrote, Super Irma, Phantom of the Sewers, Enter Mutagen Man, Poor Little Rich Turtle, Farewell Lotus Blossom, Plan Six from Outer Space, Take Me to Your Leader and The Maltese Hamster are all probably way more inane.

I do however find NotDT to be awful in how it's the only Triceraton episode and completely fails to portray them in a compelling way. The Triceratons as they were in Mirage were pretty simple, a warrior race trying to obtain a device so they can win a war, this should not be hard to portray on a kids' show. In fact, it ended up being on two kids' shows. Instead Wise opted to have them be part of a B-plot in which their invasion of earth is halted due to being tricked into thinking dinosaurs already rule the world using animatronics... And the A-plot is "Donnie hits his head and thinks he's Batman".

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I guess Night of the Dark Turtle was produced to ride the Batman populairty wave that had began with the 1989 and 1992 films, and continued with the 1992 animated Batman series.

The Triceratons were probably added because they hadn't been there before.

[pferreira]

I don't actually think it's the worst episode he wrote, Super Irma, Phantom of the Sewers, Enter Mutagen Man, Poor Little Rich Turtle, Farewell Lotus Blossom, Plan Six from Outer Space, Take Me to Your Leader and The Maltese Hamster are all probably way more inane.Take Me To Your Leader and The Maltese Hamster are genius.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The Maltese Hamster are genius.

First TMNT episode to begin with a voiceover.

[pferreira]

First TMNT episode to begin with a voiceover.Not my favourite as I'm not a film noir guy but I still admit it's impressive.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not my favourite as I'm not a film noir guy but I still admit it's impressive.

He also wrote the Big Cufflink Caper, which introduced Big Louie and his mob (even if the turtles recognized them).

[pferreira]

He also wrote the Big Cufflink Caper, which introduced Big Louie and his mob (even if the turtles recognized them).Good for him. ;)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Godzilla references

Makes sense when you think of all monster films and 1950's-60's science fiction films the turtles used to watch.

[pferreira]

Makes sense when you think of all monster films and 1950's-60's science fiction films the turtles used to watch.Oh yeah and not just him. All the writers took stories from early horror and sci-fi B movies and updated the plots for the series. It's what made it so fun. What was old once again became new. It's interesting...Wise and co's view of sci-fi was routed in old sci-fi and retro futurism while Eastman and Laird's sci-fi was cyberpunk. Nothing wrong with either, just interesting to me how the differences between them meant different storytelling for sci-fi plots.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Wise and co's view of sci-fi was routed in old sci-fi and retro futurism while Eastman and Laird's sci-fi was cyberpunk.

Also, the Archie comics went the cyberpunk route with their future issues.

[Leo656]

Also, the Archie comics went the cyberpunk route with their future issues.

That kinda thing was a big deal in the early/mid-90s. :lol:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

That kinda thing was a big deal in the early/mid-90s. :lol:

Of course, even the Red Sky seasons had cyberpunk.

[Leo656]

Not to mention stuff like "Brainscan", "The Lawnmower Man", or the Billy Idol record. :lol:

I guess it was to be expected from a world that all fell in love with Terminator 2 at the exact same time. :lol: "Computers! Robots! Cyberspace!
Hellscapes! THIS is the FUTURE!" :lol:

Kinda glad we grew out of it, but boy, that was the trend for a while.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not to mention stuff like "Brainscan", "The Lawnmower Man", or the Billy Idol record. :lol:

I guess it was to be expected from a world that all fell in love with Terminator 2 at the exact same time. :lol: "Computers! Robots! Cyberspace!
Hellscapes! THIS is the FUTURE!" :lol:

Kinda glad we grew out of it, but boy, that was the trend for a while.

But the Dying Earth genre (that Archie took a lot of elements from) is still strong.

[pferreira]

Also, the Archie comics went the cyberpunk route with their future issues.Interesting, wasn't aware of that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not to mention stuff like "Brainscan", "The Lawnmower Man", or the Billy Idol record. :lol:

I guess it was to be expected from a world that all fell in love with Terminator 2 at the exact same time. :lol: "Computers! Robots! Cyberspace!
Hellscapes! THIS is the FUTURE!" :lol:

Kinda glad we grew out of it, but boy, that was the trend for a while.

Even the Nickelodeon cartoon used a dystopian future.

[Prowler]

Not to mention stuff like "Brainscan", "The Lawnmower Man", or the Billy Idol record. :lol:

I guess it was to be expected from a world that all fell in love with Terminator 2 at the exact same time. :lol: "Computers! Robots! Cyberspace!
Hellscapes! THIS is the FUTURE!" :lol:

Kinda glad we grew out of it, but boy, that was the trend for a while.

I personally like Cyberpunk and sci-fi if done right. Deus EX Human Revolution was a pretty cool game, for example.

[pferreira]

I personally like Cyberpunk and sci-fi if done right. Deus EX Human Revolution was a pretty cool game, for example.Never played it. I did play the first two games.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I personally like Cyberpunk and sci-fi if done right. Deus EX Human Revolution was a pretty cool game, for example.

I had Flashback for SNES. It combined cyberpunk and spaceflights.

[pferreira]

I had Flashback for SNES. It combined cyberpunk and spaceflights.Ooooo you have not played Flashback until you have played the original Amiga version. I maybe wrong but I think the Snes version was one of the weaker versions. Glad you liked it anyway. :)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Ooooo you have not played Flashback until you have played the original Amiga version. I maybe wrong but I think the Snes version was one of the weaker versions. Glad you liked it anyway. :)

I know the Death Tower was renamed the Cyber Tower.

[pferreira]

I know the Death Tower was renamed the Cyber Tower.I can't remember the exact changes but I know some elements are better with the original versions (Amiga, Mega Drive). I think the Jaguar version came out okay as well.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I can't remember the exact changes but I know some elements are better with the original versions (Amiga, Mega Drive). I think the Jaguar version came out okay as well.

Amiga Flashback playthrough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNTnRM77XuE

I don't have time to watch through it all, but the final level reminds me a lot of the Krang from the Nickelodeon TMNT series (even if I know it didn't exist back then).

[pferreira]

Amiga Flashback playthrough
Yeah that's the one I grew up on. Pretty sure it was ported to 1200 and CD32 as well.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yeah that's the one I grew up on. Pretty sure it was ported to 1200 and CD32 as well.

I just with Conrad B. Hart could have a cooler weapon than just a pistol. Like Lester Knight Chaykin in Another World (another cool, similair video game) who had some kind of raygun.

[pferreira]

I just with Conrad B. Hart could have a cooler weapon than just a pistol. Like Lester Knight Chaykin in Another World (another cool, similair video game) who had some kind of raygun.I think the purpose of Conrad using a gun that doesn't disintegrate the bodies is because the player has to check the people he kills after for items.

Anyway how did we get from what we think about David Wise to talking about the gun Conrad uses in Flashback compared to Lester's gun in Another World? :lol:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

TMNT was my major gateway to many of these science fiction tropes as a child. I didn't know what Star Trek was, I had only heard of Star Wars (I watched some of it later). I recognized ET having the same telekinetic abilities as the Grybyx, Nikto and Trible.

I watched some Superfriends as a child but back then I didn't know which series was older.

[pferreira]

TMNT was my major gateway to many of these science fiction tropes as a child. I didn't know what Star Trek was, I had only heard of Star Wars (I watched some of it later). I recognized ET having the same telekinetic abilities as the Grybyx, Nikto and Trible.

I watched some Superfriends as a child but back then I didn't know which series was older.That's interesting. I was aware of all the stuff you mentioned at the same time. Never got into Superfriends. Not one of my favourite Spider-Man shows although not the worst.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not one of my favourite Spider-Man shows although not the worst.

Superfriends is a Justice League series (with a different name), not Spider-Man.

[pferreira]

Superfriends is a Justice League series (with a different name), not Spider-Man.Yeah but it has Spider-Man as the most recognisable character in it. I get what you mean though, I shouldn't refer to it exclusively as a Spider-Man series especially since there was one around the same time.

[Leo656]

Spider-Man was NOT in Super-Friends. Super-Friends was a DC show featuring only DC characters.

You seem to be confusing "Super-Friends" with "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", which ran concurrently with the solo "Spider-Man" animated series in the 1980s.

Hopefully this information will be useful to you.

[neatoman]

The guy literally claimed Spider-Man was in it after being told it was a JLA cartoon. I don't think this guy knows, cares or understands the difference to begin with.

[Leo656]

If I have a character flaw, it's that I forever give people too much benefit of doubt.

IF.

[Vegita-San]

I'm not sure what just happened in the last few posts.. but it sure was trippy weird.

[pferreira]

Spider-Man was NOT in Super-Friends. Super-Friends was a DC show featuring only DC characters.

You seem to be confusing "Super-Friends" with "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", which ran concurrently with the solo "Spider-Man" animated series in the 1980s.

Hopefully this information will be useful to you.Doh! This is what happens when trying to keep track of all those 80s superhero team up shows. Thank you for the correction. :)

I'm not sure what just happened in the last few posts.. but it sure was trippy weird.Super-Friends weird or Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends weird? :D

I don't think this guy knows, cares or understands the difference to begin with.When you reach my age that becomes everyday life. :lol:

[neatoman]

When you reach my age that becomes everyday life. :lol:

I don't know, 36 seems a little too young to be getting senile.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Doh! This is what happens when trying to keep track of all those 80s superhero team up shows. Thank you for the correction. :)

I don't see the 1980's in general as a decade of American superhero series. More a thing of the late 1960's and early 1970's. Once Star Wars kicked in (May 1977) space adventures began to dominate American action cartoons.

We had Blackstar, Masters of the Universe, Starforce and many others.

[pferreira]

I don't see the 1980's in general as a decade of American superhero series. More a thing of the late 1960's and early 1970's. Once Star Wars kicked in (May 1977) space adventures began to dominate American action cartoons.

I never watched the show but my understanding is that Super-Friends existed in some form for a good number of years through the late 70s and 80s. Along with the two Spider-Man series as well as hugely underrated Incredible Hulk cartoon series there was a good number to satisfy comic book fans. Definitely agree there was more in the 90s.

I don't know, 36 seems a little too young to be getting senile.As you grow older and have more going on in life and even just hobbies memory becomes a problem. Depends on the person of course. ;)

[Leo656]

I don't know, 36 seems a little too young to be getting senile.

Speak for yourself, whoever you are.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Super-Friends existed in some form for a good number of years through the late 70s and 80s.

From September 1973 to September 1986 to be more exact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Friends

[pferreira]

From September 1973 to September 1986 to be more exact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_FriendsYep, I checked this time just to make sure I was accurate. ;)

[ZariusTwo]

The Maltese Hamster
inane

That I disagree with. I think that episode is a classic, it's not just one of the darker episodes of the third season (arguably the 80s version's finest season), it's also pretty pacy and packed with adult jokes. It's easily in my top ten episodes of all time. I might be a little biased also because of the interaction Don has with Irma in the episode when they meet for the first time...just stands out a great deal for me. If you thought there was an issue with anything, that's fine, I'm just curious as to what you thought was stupid about it, especially by 80s TMNT standards.

The other episodes you mentioned I would somewhat agree with.

Anyway, wanted to bump this because I stumbled on an interview uploaded in March (Transformers related) and I was startled at how much weight David had lost lately.

2-xl548veoE

[bwwd]

ubelievable how much weight he lost, wow :o

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Spider-Man was NOT in Super-Friends. Super-Friends was a DC show featuring only DC characters.

You seem to be confusing "Super-Friends" with "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", which ran concurrently with the solo "Spider-Man" animated series in the 1980s.

Hopefully this information will be useful to you.


Not true. "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" aired during the 80's. Spider-Man TAS began in 1994 and ran to 1998. SMaHAF ran from 1981-1986. They never ran concurrently, though both DID get aired concurrently in some areas via syndication of SMaHAF.

Unless you mean the short-lived Spider-Man series in 1981, which ran for a single season, but was never widely aired, and was only syndicated.

The more you know....

[Leo656]

1. I absolutely was not talking about the Fox Spider-Man show. I assume most people would know that.

2. I'm trying not to post on this forum anymore (again). Thanks.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

2. I'm trying not to post on this forum anymore (again). Thanks.

See you tomorrow :)

[pferreira]

Anyway, wanted to bump this because I stumbled on an interview uploaded in March (Transformers related) and I was startled at how much weight David had lost lately.He's been like that for a good number of years now. This is the most happy I've seen David Wise. Makes a change from how he acts towards me on Facebook. :(