TMNT #91 Preview and Discussion

[bushido]

Preview here (http://www.multiversitycomics.com/previews/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-91/).

[neatoman]

Bludgeon sleeping in the tub is surprisingly cute.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Living sword of hate, huh? That'll end well.

And in hindsight, I shouldn't have been surprised to see a certain someone involving herself with these proceedings. Excellent.

[ChosenOne]

Not really that surprising that Kitsune kept Karai in her back pocket all this time as a secondary route to Saki's head. This is exactly the sort of story any given series can only tell after dozens and dozens of installments, and I'm loving every page of it.

I wonder if Karai could hold the spirit of the Dragon herself? Hmm...

[Igglet]

Not really that surprising that Kitsune kept Karai in her back pocket all this time as a secondary route to Saki's head. This is exactly the sort of story any given series can only tell after dozens and dozens of installments, and I'm loving every page of it.

I wonder if Karai could hold the spirit of the Dragon herself? Hmm...

Excellent, my predictions are coming to fruition. I told you all that Karai would end up being the Dragon's vessel.

I think I did anyway. But I predicted it in my head, and that's the part that matters, so I'm going to pretend I said it so I get bragging rights.

Anyway, I pretty much knew the Pantheon would get involved with this, it isn't a real shocker, but I'm surprised by how honorably Karai's been handling it. Same for Splinter, in all honestly, I'm happy to see the mutual respect they seem to be showing each other. So excited to see how this'll go to ****.

[Sabacooza]

So it's been discussed that Karai could be the new Dragon Lord. So what if Oroku Saki comes back but ends up being a vessel for good? He joins the TMNT and Splinter to fight against the Pantheon, Kitsune, and Karai. The Pantheon, Karai, and Kitsune are defeated but Splinter perishes in the fight and Saki becomes the father figure/sensei of the TMNT at the request of Splinter.

That would be awkward considering he beheaded them in their past life but he was the embodiment of Tatsuo, possibly possessed and by this time maybe Saki has redeemed himself completely.

I don't know. It's just a wild thought.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So it's been discussed that Karai could be the new Dragon Lord. So what if Oroku Saki comes back but ends up being a vessel for good? He joins the TMNT and Splinter to fight against the Pantheon, Kitsune, and Karai. The Pantheon, Karai, and Kitsune are defeated but Splinter perishes in the fight and Saki becomes the father figure/sensei of the TMNT at the request of Splinter.

That would be awkward considering he beheaded them in their past life but he was the embodiment of Tatsuo, possibly possessed and by this time maybe Saki has redeemed himself completely.

I don't know. It's just a wild thought.

Holy crap, man, that's wild. Seems like a long shot, but it'd be awesome to see Saki become the new tutor / father figure to the Turtles.

[TurtleWA]

So it's been discussed that Karai could be the new Dragon Lord. So what if Oroku Saki comes back but ends up being a vessel for good? He joins the TMNT and Splinter to fight against the Pantheon, Kitsune, and Karai. The Pantheon, Karai, and Kitsune are defeated but Splinter perishes in the fight and Saki becomes the father figure/sensei of the TMNT at the request of Splinter.

That would be awkward considering he beheaded them in their past life but he was the embodiment of Tatsuo, possibly possessed and by this time maybe Saki has redeemed himself completely.

I don't know. It's just a wild thought.

I love wild thoughts! :tsmile:

Yes, Turtles could receive ‘unexpected help’ from Saki. Maybe even experience some emotional/spiritual growth like never seen before. Maybe process grief or something. Turtles trust of Saki would be like in a grey area. I picture an airplane pilot with a deathwish. Hopefully you get to your destination before the plane does what it does.:teek:

[ChosenOne]

So it's been discussed that Karai could be the new Dragon Lord. So what if Oroku Saki comes back but ends up being a vessel for good? He joins the TMNT and Splinter to fight against the Pantheon, Kitsune, and Karai. The Pantheon, Karai, and Kitsune are defeated but Splinter perishes in the fight and Saki becomes the father figure/sensei of the TMNT at the request of Splinter.

That would be awkward considering he beheaded them in their past life but he was the embodiment of Tatsuo, possibly possessed and by this time maybe Saki has redeemed himself completely.

I don't know. It's just a wild thought.

I had a similar thought a couple of weeks back but never voiced it here, as I often do(n't). It would certainly be a radical change to the status quo, and something that no other iteration of TMNT has ever attempted before, not to mention how much it brings to mind that brief period when Magneto was the leader of the X-Men... I love it! Please make it happen, IDW!

[Igglet]

So it's been discussed that Karai could be the new Dragon Lord. So what if Oroku Saki comes back but ends up being a vessel for good? He joins the TMNT and Splinter to fight against the Pantheon, Kitsune, and Karai. The Pantheon, Karai, and Kitsune are defeated but Splinter perishes in the fight and Saki becomes the father figure/sensei of the TMNT at the request of Splinter.

That would be awkward considering he beheaded them in their past life but he was the embodiment of Tatsuo, possibly possessed and by this time maybe Saki has redeemed himself completely.

I don't know. It's just a wild thought.

If you need more to fuel this theory, look no further than Shredder in Hell #1. Yoshi tries to convince Saki to embrace the Dreamer, to become one with it. Later, Tang Shen tells him to "save the world" when he goes to help Saki. What if the DREAMER wants to use Saki as his vessel as well? Karai becomes the vessel for the Dragon Lord, Saki becomes the vessel for the Dreamer.

More proof that Karai might become the vessel for the Dragon Lord lies in the fact that she is Kitsune's grand-daughter, after all. Wiiiiiild theory incoming, but maybe Kitsune hooking up with Saki was never about her making him the Dragon Warrior, but about her CREATING the Dragon Warrior, one who'd come from a line of the greatest mortal warrior she had ever encountered and leader of Foot Clan, as well as being a God. At the end of the day, the blood of the Dragon doesn't run through Saki, it runs through Karai.

[ChosenOne]

If you need more to fuel this theory, look no further than Shredder in Hell #1. Yoshi tries to convince Saki to embrace the Dreamer, to become one with it. Later, Tang Shen tells him to "save the world" when he goes to help Saki. What if the DREAMER wants to use Saki as his vessel as well? Karai becomes the vessel for the Dragon Lord, Saki becomes the vessel for the Dreamer.

More proof that Karai might become the vessel for the Dragon Lord lies in the fact that she is Kitsune's grand-daughter, after all. Wiiiiiild theory incoming, but maybe Kitsune hooking up with Saki was never about her making him the Dragon Warrior, but about her CREATING the Dragon Warrior, one who'd come from a line of the greatest mortal warrior she had ever encountered and leader of Foot Clan, as well as being a God. At the end of the day, the blood of the Dragon doesn't run through Saki, it runs through Karai.

Wow, that would really make Saki the Stannis to Kitsune's Melisandre...

The one thing I don't like about these theories, though, is how they take (even more) agency away from the Turtles by making it all about Saki's bloodline and his role in the Pantheon's schemes. It's almost like Clan Hamato are merely caught in the crossfire in their own comic.

Other than that, everything sounds great. So maybe Leo could be the one to channel the Dreamer? I dunno.

[phillytmnt]

Karai being the vessel for the Dragon is a good theory but I'm not sure that will happen. Shredder in Hell # 1 made it clear that the Dragon's soul is basically trapped in Saki/ Tatsuo's spirit. I'm thinking there is still more to that than what has been revealed. Like, why would the Dragon's spirit be trapped in Saki's soul? I also wonder if Kitsune knew this whole time if that was the case. Maybe when the Dragon died, part of his spirit got reincarnated as Tatsuo? Splinter said that Saki never knew an existance without the Dragon basically being a part of him. This is probably the main reason Saki was chosen to be the vessel of the Dragon, becasue he is already carrying his soul, which the panthan might not be aware of other than Kitsune. I think the connection with Saki and the Dragon could be a very interesting story point.

Karai potentially be the vessel of the Dragon if his soul's gets cleansed from Saki's soul and merges with Karai. The fact she has the Dragon's DNA is interesting.Who knows?! This is shaping up to me a great journey to issue 100.

[ChosenOne]

Karai potentially be the vessel of the Dragon if his soul's gets cleansed from Saki's soul and merges with Karai. The fact she has the Dragon's DNA is interesting.Who knows?! This is shaping up to me a great journey to issue 100.

And let's not forget about that other dangling plot thread regarding DNA, souls and resurrections... This could tie it all together.

[Igglet]

Wow, that would really make Saki the Stannis to Kitsune's Melisandre...

The one thing I don't like about these theories, though, is how they take (even more) agency away from the Turtles by making it all about Saki's bloodline and his role in the Pantheon's schemes. It's almost like Clan Hamato are merely caught in the crossfire in their own comic.

Other than that, everything sounds great. So maybe Leo could be the one to channel the Dreamer? I dunno.

Honestly, the whole caught-in-the-crossfire thing I think would be VERY fitting for the whole City at War narrative. The entire world is falling apart around them with Gods fighting to take over and they're over here with a bunch of pointy stuff trying to save the day from an evil they helped create. I'd find it really compelling if these heroes, who're in WAY over their heads, found a way to take the battle into their own hands and helped save themselves instead of letting these Godlike entities decide their destinies.

[ChosenOne]

Honestly, the whole caught-in-the-crossfire thing I think would be VERY fitting for the whole City at War narrative. The entire world is falling apart around them with Gods fighting to take over and they're over here with a bunch of pointy stuff trying to save the day from an evil they helped create. I'd find it really compelling if these heroes, who're in WAY over their heads, found a way to take the battle into their own hands and helped save themselves instead of letting these Godlike entities decide their destinies.

Ah'ight, I'm sold!

[CyberCubed]

Barring the lame route like Kitsune brainwashing Karai (after we had to deal with her doing it with Alopex and so many others), I really wonder what causes Karai to turn on Splinter and the Turtles so violently in the upcoming issues. She seems so peaceful in this issue, I don't know what would trigger the change

[ChosenOne]

We're all, of course, discounting the very real possibility that Bishop might decide to interfere in the proceedings.

[Utrommaniac]

It's about time for this!

And...for it to be acknowledged that Karai is Kitsune's granddaughter too (wouldn't that make her a demigod?)


Gotta love Koya trying to do airplanes with the kiddo, and Karai's first instinct was thinking she was going to eat him.

[Igglet]

And...for it to be acknowledged that Karai is Kitsune's granddaughter too (wouldn't that make her a demigod?)


Can one even be a demigod in the TMNT universe? I mean, can someone be, like, quarter-God? Or half-God? Maybe if you're one part God, then you're all parts God, if you get me? Probably not that likely but I'm making every guess imaginable over here so I get bragging rights if I get something right.

[Utrommaniac]

In Karai's case, it would be watered down quite a bit. Four or five generations, probably.

[Igglet]

In Karai's case, it would be watered down quite a bit. Four or five generations, probably.

That's sort of what I'm trying to say, can being a God REALLY be watered down?

[ChosenOne]

That's sort of what I'm trying to say, can being a God REALLY be watered down?

Well, wouldn't Saki himself, assuming Kitsune's plan goes off without a hitch, already be a watered-down Dragon? And isn't that exactly what she wants so she can better control him?

[Utrommaniac]

Ecchh, that just makes her Freudian complex even worse (or is it Electra?).

[ChosenOne]

It's Electra for women. But I mean, at some point past the edge of insanity, does it even matter anymore?

[Igglet]

Ladies and gents, I'm lost.

Tom just Tweeted out, while sharing a pretty cool review of #91 "Great review of #TMNT #91, in stores tomorrow for #FCBD."

Now, I'm sort of new to the comic book industry, at least by the standards of these forums, but, isn't FCBD Free Comic Book Day? And isn't that on May 4th? And aren't we getting a completely different comic for Free Comic Book Day? Which also coincidentally happens to not come out on Free Comic Book Day? Because right now it seems to me like either I don't know what FCBD is, or IDW doesn't.

[Utrommaniac]

The Free Comic Book Day issues for IDW tend to be a recap if something big is coming up, in the midst of main story happening.

For instance, the big shakeup within the Foot.

[neatoman]

Can one even be a demigod in the TMNT universe? I mean, can someone be, like, quarter-God? Or half-God? Maybe if you're one part God, then you're all parts God, if you get me? Probably not that likely but I'm making every guess imaginable over here so I get bragging rights if I get something right.

In Karai's case, it would be watered down quite a bit. Four or five generations, probably.

That's sort of what I'm trying to say, can being a God REALLY be watered down?

Are we seriously going full Naruto here? I haven't read the manga in full but I know about the whole Kaguya thing and how her plans involved manipulating the descendants who inherited her godly powers.

[Igglet]

The Free Comic Book Day issues for IDW tend to be a recap if something big is coming up, in the midst of main story happening.

For instance, the big shakeup within the Foot.

Yeah but isn't a Free Comic Book Day issue supposed to come out on free comic book day?

Are we seriously going full Naruto here? I haven't read the manga in full but I know about the whole Kaguya thing and how her plans involved manipulating the descendants who inherited her godly powers.

I've never actually watched (or read) Naruto. Well, that's a lie, I did but it was like, until that part where Naruto summons that big ass frog to fight Orochimaru or something. And that's mainly cause my brother's a weeb.

[TomWaltz]

Ladies and gents, I'm lost.

Tom just Tweeted out, while sharing a pretty cool review of #91 "Great review of #TMNT #91, in stores tomorrow for #FCBD."

Now, I'm sort of new to the comic book industry, at least by the standards of these forums, but, isn't FCBD Free Comic Book Day? And isn't that on May 4th? And aren't we getting a completely different comic for Free Comic Book Day? Which also coincidentally happens to not come out on Free Comic Book Day? Because right now it seems to me like either I don't know what FCBD is, or IDW doesn't.

Oops. That was supposed be #NCBD (New Comic Book Day).

I'll jump on Twitter to notate that.

Thanks!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

[Igglet]

Oops. That was supposed be #NCBD (New Comic Book Day).

I'll jump on Twitter to notate that.

Thanks!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

I see, glad we got that cleared up :tlol: You're welcome man, happens to the best of us.

[Utrommaniac]

Huh...
Except for the stuff with Metalhead, Another Jennika Is Doomed Interruption, and Ocho picking on Raph...that went rather well!

Kinda thought Splinter would resist a lot more...


But what I really liked was Bludgeon talking to Michelangelo and Donatello. That was incredibly sweet.

[Toxin45]

Huh...
Except for the stuff with Metalhead, Another Jennika Is Doomed Interruption, and Ocho picking on Raph...that went rather well!

Kinda thought Splinter would resist a lot more...


But what I really liked was Bludgeon talking to Michelangelo and Donatello. That was incredibly sweet.

Like how the fact that he was willing to give up the foot clan that easily?

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, I thought he would have been more resistant. Well, at least he was until Leo said that the Foot Clan was hers to give, and that she technically has every right to it.


Plus, she's the reason it's back in the first place.

[Toxin45]

Yeah, I thought he would have been more resistant. Well, at least he was until Leo said that the Foot Clan was hers to give, and that she technically has every right to it.


Plus, she's the reason it's back in the first place.

Well we still have 92-100 plus shredder in hell 2-5 coming

[neatoman]

Karai, orphanage director! Hope she'll enjoy that title more than Jonin, because that's technically waht she'll be.

[Utrommaniac]

Koya and Bludgeon already seem to be doing pretty well with the kiddos, so...

Gotta say though, that scene of Mike and Don talking to Bludgeon and Koya is one of my new favorite scenes. But was Mike referencing Daredevil???

[Toxin45]

Koya and Bludgeon already seem to be doing pretty well with the kiddos, so...

Gotta say though, that scene of Mike and Don talking to Bludgeon and Koya is one of my new favorite scenes. But was Mike referencing Daredevil???

Yeah I think he was then again they were influcned by Daredevil so Mikey read both Marvel and DC comics.

[ChosenOne]

I don't think any other issue of the entire run has ever felt as short as this one. Gimme more! :D

[daggio]

I'll be curious to see what the trigger to begin the fight between the two clans is in the upcoming issues since we know from previews and solicitations that this "getting along with each other" moment isn't going to last, unfortunately :(. Probably Bishop getting involved will be some sort of catalyst.

I hate to sound like this but I wouldn't be surprised if Karai does some sort of ambush since what we saw at the end of "Bebop & Rocksteady Hit the Road" #5 (if that wasn't some sort of dream or hallucination) lends me to believe that something is up. We have not seen Bebop, Rocksteady, or Anchovy since despite seemingly rejoining Karai. Plus Karai's comment about taking over this city at that issue's end (maybe saying that just cuz the Foot basically does rule the city) doesn't fill me with confidence that this meeting with Splinter is just intended to be a negotiation. I realize the meeting between Karai and Kitsune at the beginning of this issue might say otherwise to my theory, but who knows what's gonna happen......unless the epilogue to the Bebop and Rocksteady miniseries is suppose to take place after "City at War" has started.

[Redeemer]

Koya and Bludgeon already seem to be doing pretty well with the kiddos, so...

Gotta say though, that scene of Mike and Don talking to Bludgeon and Koya is one of my new favorite scenes. But was Mike referencing Daredevil???

Yes Mikey was making a reference to Daredevil. It was essentially an omage to TMNT roots. TMNT was heavily influenced by Frank Miller's work on Daredevil and I mean heavily.

In DareDevil there is an evil ninja organization call the "Hand" Daredevil's master is called "Stick" Daredevil gets his powers from a car accident where he was hit by a green chemical and was essentially given his powers. Electra uses Sais as her main weapons like one of the turtles.

So yeah it was a nod to TMNT roots. :D

Yeah I think he was then again they were influcned by Daredevil so Mikey read both Marvel and DC comics.

Yes correct.


Edit: 4500th post! I would like to thank the mods for not banning me yet :P

[CyberCubed]

This issue was kinda dull but needed for the obvious exposition. But I agree that I don't understand what could cause the friction leading to City at War after this. Karai and her mutants get along with the Turtles, (Koya and Bludgeon becoming their friends is a nice change of pace), Splinter has softened a lot since the last batch of issues and seems fine with letting Karai take over the Foot, and the only wild card is Ocho but Karai showed she'll easily cast him loose if he causes trouble.

Besides that the Bishop/Metalhead stuff was fine but only lasted 2 pages so not much to say about it. And the Casey/Jennika scenes had me snoozing, but it's been like that for a while. :lol:

Honestly I'm not sure what to say, this issue was ok but it seems confusing what could lead into the next arc I guess.

[ChosenOne]

Honestly I'm not sure what to say, this issue was ok but it seems confusing what could lead into the next arc I guess.

I agree with everything, but it only seems confusing now. I'm sure by the time #92 ends, we'll all be going "Oooooooh..."!

[CyberCubed]

Yeah but without an out of character moment or something lame like Kitsune brainwashing Karai, I just can't see it. The way they've written Karai and Splinter in this issue along with Koya/Bludgeon getting along with the Turtles, it just seems odd if they do a 180 in like 1-2 issues later.

Even if Ocho is evil they can just turn on him alone. Besides that Old Hob wants revenge on Bishop but that has nothing to do with the Foot or Karai, so he won't trigger much either. As far as have right now Bishop is the only main antagonist at this point besides the Pantheon in the next couple of issues.

[Igglet]

I feel like there's quite a few things of note in this issue but not a lot of stuff I really come out thinking about when I finish reading the issue.

The scenes where Karai interacts with Splinter and the Turtles are all really pleasant. I think the first panel with them bowing before each other is a real highlight of this issue. Hell, whenever Karai and Friends™ interacted with the Hamato and Foot Clan, I genuinely found it somewhat heartwarming. That Daredevil reference really got me, Koya and Bludgeon are ACTUALLY growing on me, especially the latter. And Karai's just outright becoming likable. Honestly, I do think one of the reasons why these characters are growing on me are the clear similarities between Karai's clan and Clan Hamato, for example that scene where they're trying to get Raph and the mole freak from the depths of Hell to stop fighting. The reason for the war between Karai and the Turtles breaking out better be good.

Splinter's character arc is actually progressing in a very unexpected way in my opinion and I'm loving it. His gradual development so far has been amazing and I can't describe how happy I am with what they're doing with the character, and keep in mind, this is coming from someone who originally hoped #100 would be the Turtles vs. Splinter. It's so fresh and unexpected and I'm loving every second of it.

More Casey and Jennika, I think moments like these show why I REALLY wish these comics were longer. But we can't always get what we want.

Metalhead and Bishop's involvement in this arc is still such a large question mark, though I didn't really like what they did with them in this issue. It really brings me to my biggest problem with this issue, I feel like they genuinely did their best to not give us anything really interesting, or well, major. And don't get me wrong, we got confirmation regarding important stuff, but this issue felt like a massive "OOOH LOOK WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN THE NEXT ISSUE GUYS" to me. I still enjoyed it, and I liked that they took an issue to just let us explore the dynamic, but it was undoubtedly filler and some parts of the issue suffered from it. I honestly wish they just cut out the Metalhead and Bishop part and either replaced it with a conversation between Leonardo and Karai, or maybe even something about Old Hob.

Dialynas' art is absolutely amazing and I will never stop repeating that fact.

Overall, very fun filler issue and a necessary one at that, but I think some parts could've been executed a tad bit better.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The Bishop/Metalhead scene should have been combined with last issue's Bishop/Metalhead scene. Just feels truncated.

Mikey calling out Daredevil--love it. :tlol:

Bludgeon and Donatello chatting is supreme. Just great. And Ocho... man, that thing is messed up. Can't wait to see what eventually becomes of it. It seems that it has to turn on Karai eventually...

Leo's heartfelt appeal to Splinter is the highlight of this issue. Genuinely moving, at least for me.

[daggio]

And the Casey/Jennika scenes had me snoozing, but it's been like that for a while. :lol:

Yeah, I agree. The Casey/Jenny stuff was the low point of the issue for me. But I guess it's a necessary evil to get that storyline to where it needs to be, whether Jenny gets killed in FCBD or it leads to something involving April sometime later.

[Redeemer]

Everyone who said this issue was boring, but needed for progress for story reasons, but for some reason I enjoyed this issue, IDK if its bc of Raph's interaction with with he vole/ mole what ever he or she(forgot its name). I love bludgeon interaction with the turtles.


I am really glad they decided to use the name bludgeon instead of Armegadon like they were talking about when the character made the initial debut. I still really want to see Armagaddon who up in the series eventually, but I am satisfied with how far along bludgeon has come as a character.

[Wentos]

I hope I don't sound like a jerk for saying this because I liked the art in this issue for the most part, but look at pages 12 and 13. Karai and Casey have the EXACT same face and I can't stop looking at it.

[Igglet]

Everyone who said this issue was boring, but needed for progress for story reasons, but for some reason I enjoyed this issue, IDK if its bc of Raph's interaction with with he vole/ mole what ever he or she(forgot its name). I love bludgeon interaction with the turtles.

Oh don't get me wrong I did say it was necessary and that it was filler but not that it was boring. This was filler done right in my opinion.

[Utrommaniac]

Ocho is a Yokai, but she's mole-inspired.

And it's definitely not filler. It's just a still moment before things launch out of control. Still part of the main story. Just not wild and action packed. That does't make it filler, though.

[Igglet]

And it's definitely not filler. It's just a still moment before things launch out of control. Still part of the main story. Just not wild and action packed. That does't make it filler, though.

Definitely a poor choice of words on my part if I'm being honest. What I meant to say is that nothing really happened in this issue to push the plot forward save for about two panels. It wasn't an issue dedicated to pushing the story forward, instead it let characters interact. Again, you're right, it's not filler but I do hope you get what I was trying to say.

[ChosenOne]

The only issue in the entire run that can be considered genuine filler is #21, apart from one significant scene regarding Kitsune that could've just been placed in any other issue.

And yes, I too hope to see Armaggon further down the line but Bludgeon isn't him in any conceivable way. It would've been a travesty and a disservice to the character (to both characters, really) if IDW had actually used that name for him. Once again they prove they know what they're doing.

[Redeemer]

Bludgeon isn't him in any conceivable way.

I thought that what said or maybe I thought I said it and actually forgot to type it out :lol:

But yes I believe that's why Tom said they went with a new name instead of reusing armageddon, bc they are two completely different characters.

[CyberCubed]

One aspect I like about the series is how so many former enemies become the Turtles friends. It makes the characters less one dimensional when there's just "the evil bad guys" and "the good guys" and nothing inbetween.

Hell almost every former villain became a good guy with the exception of Krang, Shredder (for now, I guess), Rat King/Kitsune, and I suppose Bebop/Rocksteady if they count. Baxter, Hun, Old Hob, Karai, Alopex, Bludgeon, Koya, and so many others changed their ways.

[ChosenOne]

I thought that what said or maybe I thought I said it and actually forgot to type it out :lol:

But yes I believe that's why Tom said they went with a new name instead of reusing armageddon, bc they are two completely different characters.

Yes, but also no. Let me explain. I got your point, what I meant was: imagine for a moment an alternate universe where the character we now know as Bludgeon was actually introduced as Armaggon. We would've been all like "Yass! Cool! Armaggon! He's a badass!", etc, and several dozen issues down the line he would've evolved into the current character and none of us would've batted an eye because we followed along in his development. That's pretty much what happened with characters like Rat King and Slash, to name two of the most obvious examples. Their IDW selves have little to do with previous iterations, and the same would've applied to Bludgeon if he had debuted as Armaggon. There are some liberties taken with their characterization, as well as some leeway to do so. Heck, even Bishop is a fair bit different. Anyone who's only familiar with him from the 2012 cartoon will be scratching their heads the whole time.

Armaggon is the same. His Archie TMNT and 2012 cartoon selves were sufficiently different that the mutant shark introduced in #37 could have been named Armaggon. Yes. But now that we arrive at this point in the story and look at what's become, we can all agree that giving him that name would've been, in retrospect, a major disservice to both characters. Sorry for the rant, which probably went nowhere and only reinforced (again) what you said earlier. :P

[daggio]

It looks like Bishop is gonna have quite the team at his disposal, the two -head characters, Metalhead and eventually Leatherhead (whether mind-controlled or of his own volition), Baxter (though without Slash, Baxter may not feel like he has to listen to Bishop...not that we've seen any sort of interaction since prior to "Battle Lines"), and then all sorts of possibilities concerning when Raph was in EPF custody in his Macro. I'm not saying that I think something definitely is gonna happen on that theory, but if something hypothetically did, the explanation would be easy enough.

And who knows, maybe Dark Water will come back. :lol::lol:

[Igglet]

You know, we've all been suggesting that Bishop's gonna mindcontrol Leatherhead but maybe that's not the case, considering the fact that both of them share a hatred for Mutants and believe they should be exterminated. What if Leatherhead willingly teams up with him?

[Toxin45]

One aspect I like about the series is how so many former enemies become the Turtles friends. It makes the characters less one dimensional when there's just "the evil bad guys" and "the good guys" and nothing inbetween.

Hell almost every former villain became a good guy with the exception of Krang, Shredder (for now, I guess), Rat King/Kitsune, and I suppose Bebop/Rocksteady if they count. Baxter, Hun, Old Hob, Karai, Alopex, Bludgeon, Koya, and so many others changed their ways.

Baxter had't changed his ways so much that the turtles convinced him that humanity's survival for his own beift rather than an actual change of heart. Hun Channing his ways is still debatable. Also Judi g by preview Karai and her group will be at conflict so their alliance with the turtles won't last.

[daggio]

You know, we've all been suggesting that Bishop's gonna mindcontrol Leatherhead but maybe that's not the case, considering the fact that both of them share a hatred for Mutants and believe they should be exterminated. What if Leatherhead willingly teams up with him?

That's what I said, mind-controlled or of his own volition.

Now I agree with you here about Leatherhead's mindset, but at the same time he's such a lonerish character that I can't picture him willingly teaming up with someone for the long haul.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You know, we've all been suggesting that Bishop's gonna mindcontrol Leatherhead but maybe that's not the case, considering the fact that both of them share a hatred for Mutants and believe they should be exterminated. What if Leatherhead willingly teams up with him?

That's been my theory for a long time. Leatherhead willingly joins Bishop, because he hates mutants.

[CyberCubed]

They're not going to have Leatherhead be mind controlled and become a one-dimensional slave, that would be too repetitive after Slash and completely pointless. Leatherhead would have no personality at all like Slash did and that would be a waste. We don't know if Leatherhead will join anyone.

As for Baxter as far as we can tell he isn't up to anything, he seems to have gone legitimate. I don't think he's working with Bishop anymore behind the scenes or we would have gotten an update on it. With April willingly working for him and keeping track on what he does, I don't think there's much to say. I think people just assume since Baxter's always been a villain he has to remain one.

[Toxin45]

They're not going to have Leatherhead be mind controlled and become a one-dimensional slave, that would be too repetitive after Slash and completely pointless. Leatherhead would have no personality at all like Slash did and that would be a waste. We don't know if Leatherhead will join anyone.

As for Baxter as far as we can tell he isn't up to anything, he seems to have gone legitimate. I don't think he's working with Bishop anymore behind the scenes or we would have gotten an update on it. With April willingly working for him and keeping track on what he does, I don't think there's much to say. I think people just assume since Baxter's always been a villain he has to remain one.
But the turtles still don't trust him since he only cares about himself.

[Redeemer]

Yes, but also no. Let me explain. I got your point, what I meant was: imagine for a moment an alternate universe where the character we now know as Bludgeon was actually introduced as Armaggon. We would've been all liek "Yass! Cool! Armaggon! He's a badass!", etc, and several dozen issues down the line he would've evolved into the current character and none of us would've batted an eye because we followed along in his development. That's pretty much what happened with characters like Rat King and Slash, to name two of the most obvious examples. Their IDW selves have little to do with previous iterations, and the same would've applied to Bludgeon if he would've debuted as Armaggon. There are some liberties taken with their characterization, as well as some leeway to do so. Heck, even Bishop is a fair bit different. Anyone who's only familiar with him from the 2012 cartoon will be scratching their heads the whole time.

Armaggon is the same. His Archie TMNT and 2012 cartoon selves were sufficiently different that the mutant shark introduced in #37 could have been named Armaggon. Yes. But now that we arrive at this point in the story and look at what's become, we can all agree that giving him that name would've been, in retrospect, a major disservice to both characters. Sorry for the rant, which probably went nowhere and only reinforced (again) what you said earlier. :P

AH!! Gotcha ;)

[daggio]

As for Baxter as far as we can tell he isn't up to anything, he seems to have gone legitimate. I don't think he's working with Bishop anymore behind the scenes or we would have gotten an update on it. With April willingly working for him and keeping track on what he does, I don't think there's much to say. I think people just assume since Baxter's always been a villain he has to remain one.

I think, personally, it has more to do with Baxter is out for Baxter, he's not out for the Turtles or April (and judging by the scene from two issues ago, he's possibly onto April). If the relationship breaks down, that may lead to more than just hurt feelings.

The Bishop thing was more of a "you do this for me or else" scenario, but I think we'll probably see more Baxter/Bishop in the future, especially with the EPF now entrenched in Central Park and Baxter's campaign for mayor, that'll probably lead to a 4Kids style partnership of sorts.

[Igglet]

You know, it just hit me. Bishop suddenly may have a waaaay larger circle of allies than any of us probably anticipated. Bishop, Metalhead, Stockman and maybe even Leatherhead could all be on one side of the conflict in this arc.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You know, it just hit me. Bishop suddenly may have a waaaay larger circle of allies than any of us probably anticipated. Bishop, Metalhead, Stockman and maybe even Leatherhead could all be on one side of the conflict in this arc.

Stockman's not really an ally, more like a grudging... inside man?

Bishop kinda already drew the line in the sand for him back during Kingdom of Rats. "Tell me what I want, or it's Gitmo Bay for you."

[MikeandRaph87]

https://comicbook.com/comics/amp/2019/02/18/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-splinter-leads-foot-shredder-dead/

Nice write up on comicbook.com #91 and the series as a whole.