Star Wars - Doubling down on agenda

[Vegita-San]

https://www.facebook.com/StarWars/videos/2184860691779235/


They have NOT learned a THING. now they are re writing original movie history and turning han, luke and chewie into useless idiots. anyone remember general reikan on hoth? we do...

And with this bri situation tanking Captain Marvel pretty fast... I can't help but wonder WHY they have not learned that going woke means going broke.


I decided to give one last new cannon book a try. Bloodlines. Claudia Grey does an admirable job making it FEEL like a part of the old EU by making it an interesting, readable book. but the agenda is pretty clear...even if she tries to bury it where it belongs. Two main men characters. one sympathetic and crying, one nasty and traitorous. mention of 'right wing and left wing' politics. apparently a rich woman from coruscant funded and setup the entire first order, not snoke. and the female characters outnumber the male ones by a large margin. or at least get most of the spotlight on them.

that being said, it's one of the few nicer books that I'd put on par with timothy zahn writing. and it's clear claudia is trying to avoid real world politics as she addresses lucasfilms bullet points and then buries them real quick. I'd buy another book from her again.

but disney is still at it with it's agenda, and it's rather sad at this point.

[neatoman]

Uhm, what even is this? Who decided it was a good idea to take audio clips from the movies and animate a short around them? Why not just record new voice clips?

Eh, whatever. Star Wars' quality has been drain since 1999, as has the artistry/creativity since 2015 and as of last year it's not even guaranteed to make money anymore. Last time I checked, Solo appearently did so poorly Disney scrapped their plans to release a Star Wars movie every year.

Between the cynical retreading of the current movies, the laziness Marvel publishes, EA treating SW with the same greed as their own franchises, that absurdly boring Resistance cartoon and the actual cancellations of movie productions... Well, I'm not so sure doubling down on pseudo-feminist marketing is really the worst thing going on here.

[Vegita-San]

but, that's the entire problem WHY star wars is sinking!

People of all races and creeds are coming together and saying, this agenda isn't what we want, and are avoiding the property like the plague.

Marvel will soon be quick to find this out, and if they had any plans to replace existing hero's with Captain Marvel, are probably back tracking with re writes REAL quick.

[Voltron]

I liked these cartoons for the most part. The Luke vs. Vader on Cloud City was really fun. I'd watch an animated version of the original trilogy.

It's a HELL of a lot better than the Forces of Destiny ********.

And you're right, this particular one feels just like the Forces of Destiny ********.

I have no problem with strong women/strong female characters in my stories. Why these women HAVE to exist next to incompetent, incapable men is beyond me. It wasn't like Luke and Han were bumbling morons in the movies. They were improving the rescue, but it wasn't like they were unable to use their own weapons and tools.

Leia was an interesting character because she wasn't a damsel in distress, and was able to carry her fair share of the weight in the escape.

The original trilogy never had a problem depicting Leia as a capable fighter/leader, and was absolutely essential in leading the Rebels.

Do people not understand that? Are we all watching different movies?

[Vegita-San]

Yeah, and it's not like lea was totally useless either.

She took out at least 5 storm troopers in that chasm swing scene, and at a rather difficult angle to shoot at to boot. So, why do they have to make the men, especially luke, seem goofy and useless?

Apparently disney didn't see the same movies, because they feel the need to constantly double down on this stuff, even using 'the future is female' on their official website.

[Sumac]

I don't envy modern writers.
They have stuck between hammer and anvil.

How do you write good female (minority) character, without attracting ire of sizable portion of lunatics from one side or the other?

If you write them overcompetent you end up with Mary Sue, if you write them as competent as everyone, somebody would be offended saying that "female character is bad, because she is nothing special".

[Candy Kappa]

a cute animated short using the damsel out of distressed trope for comedy and vegita screams AGENDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

https://media.giphy.com/media/YEOhCFRF9NFba/giphy.gif

[Autbot_Benz]

a cute animated short using the damsel out of distressed trope for comedy and vegita screams AGENDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

https://media.giphy.com/media/YEOhCFRF9NFba/giphy.gif

guess its time to dust off my vegita-san gif

https://i.imgur.com/0RVjZPj.gif

[Vegita-San]

I don't envy modern writers.
They have stuck between hammer and anvil.

How do you write good female (minority) character, without attracting ire of sizable portion of lunatics from one side or the other?

If you write them overcompetent you end up with Mary Sue, if you write them as competent as everyone, somebody would be offended saying that "female character is bad, because she is nothing special".

While I don't envy modern day writers,

I've NEVER heard someone say a female character isn't anything special, therefore she is bad. that's a new one. It's usually 'there arn't enough bad ass women'.

[Allio]

I don't envy modern writers.
They have stuck between hammer and anvil.

How do you write good female (minority) character, without attracting ire of sizable portion of lunatics from one side or the other?


It's always why I feel anime does it best. Sure, outside of fanservice stuff, female characters do feel like they are written as characters. Sure while boobage might be at the front door a strong part that plays the waifu aspect is the characters' character. I mean hell, at least in Harems the girls actually has a characters when the mc is usually a blank slate character.

It's kind of like what Bulma's english voice actress said a few weeks ago in regard to some bot/spam account "Japan has been creating strong female characters long before it ever became popular here"

But sometimes what happens is that when you just write a plain good character it never gets the traction of characters with negative traits like badly written or written for the wrong reasons.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't use Facebook, so I can't see what it is about.

[Galactus]

Are people still citing Solo's box office to promote their anti-diversity agenda?

How does this even work? It's not like Solo was a minority led, pro-diversity "SJW" movie. If anything it's exactly the kind of Star Wars that a lot of Star Wars fans have been begging to made since Lucas announced there would be prequels.

Hypothetically if fans did still away as retroactive punishment for the other Disney produced Star Wars movies being more diverse then they really shot themselves in the foot, didn't they? Since Solo was not that kind of movie just imagine the takeaway from Disney execs; imagine for a second that you're a bottom line studio exec looking at the billion made by The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi and Rogue One making almost that then looks at Solo's barely making a profit you'd argue for more "SJW agenda movies" because clearly they work.

Of course in truth Solo didn't underperform because people wanted to retroactively punish the franchise for daring to have black and female leads or stayed away because this movie wasn't that. It was because it looked like an ultra safe movie about Star Wars minutiae that only die hard fans care about. Turns out die hard fans alone are not enough to make even Star Wars a huge success and these people think that they can affect the box office of the next 'proper' Star Wars movie? Good look with that.

And with this bri situation tanking Captain Marvel pretty fast... I can't help but wonder WHY they have not learned that going woke means going broke.

You mean the movie tracking to have a 100 million opening?

[ZariusTwo]

Are people still citing Solo's box office to promote their anti-diversity agenda?

In saner corners of the internet...people just thought another prequel with a bland substitute for Harrison wasn't needed.

You mean the movie tracking to have a 100 million opening?

So what? Plenty of movies have had "good tracking" only to underperform, and bad word of mouth is going to affect it's actual box office, and statistics mean nothing these days as the facts can be manipulated. Doctor Who scored the highest ratings in years with a female lead and it's unanimously consensus that it's one of the blandest pieces of s*it to ever be put to screen.

[Vegita-San]

If Episode 9 underperforms, what will the excuse be then?

fans just don't care about star wars anymore? or that the fan revolt, the fandom menace, is real?

[ZariusTwo]

If Episode 9 underperforms, what will the excuse be then?

fans just don't care about star wars anymore? or that the fan revolt, the fandom menace, is real?

Episode IX was revealed to have wrapped filming a few days ago...there was very little commotion or reaction to that at all compared to when Force Awakens and Last Jedi wrapped.

[Galactus]

In saner corners of the internet...people just thought another prequel with a bland substitute for Harrison wasn't needed.

That probably sums it well enough.

But then no one really needed Rogue One rother and yet that was a big hit. They were always going to play it safe with Han Solo. If anything they should have made a Lando movie, he was played by a big rapper that had a huge hit at the time and the fact it's a character less people cared about they could have taken some chances without angering fans and made a better movie.

So what? Plenty of movies have had "good tracking" only to underperform, and bad word of mouth is going to affect it's actual box office, and statistics mean nothing these days as the facts can be manipulated. Doctor Who scored the highest ratings in years with a female lead and it's unanimously consensus that it's one of the blandest pieces of s*it to ever be put to screen.

Well we'll see how it actually does but I'm fairly confident when all is said and done Captain Marvel will be pretty successful.

Not that it's going to matter to some people. They have made up their minds about it's quality already and will spin whatever it's numbers are whatever way they want.

If Episode 9 underperforms, what will the excuse be then?

fans just don't care about star wars anymore? or that the fan revolt, the fandom menace, is real?

Episode 9 is unlikely to underperform.

I'm not coming up with excuses why Solo underperformed! just pointing out the flaw in your logic. If anything it should be you coming up with excuses why Solo underperformed after all it was the kind of Star Wars movie you claim you want, right?

That's the weird thing Solo's underperformance compared TFA, TLJ and R1's mega success only weakens your argument. The only recent Star Wars movie that idiots didn't think had an "SJW agenda" is the one that isn't a runaway hit.

[neatoman]

You mean the movie tracking to have a 100 million opening?

100 yes, but it dropped from 180.
https://cosmicbook.news/captain-marvel-trouble

[ZariusTwo]

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2466986/captain-marvel-could-make-less-than-we-thought-opening-weekend

[Sumac]

It's always why I feel anime does it best. Sure, outside of fanservice stuff, female characters do feel like they are written as characters. Sure while boobage might be at the front door a strong part that plays the waifu aspect is the characters' character. I mean hell, at least in Harems the girls actually has a characters when the mc is usually a blank slate character.

It's kind of like what Bulma's english voice actress said a few weeks ago in regard to some bot/spam account "Japan has been creating strong female characters long before it ever became popular here"

But sometimes what happens is that when you just write a plain good character it never gets the traction of characters with negative traits like badly written or written for the wrong reasons.
Hilariously enough you find a lot of "progressive" people who say that "female characters in anime are horrible pandering trash and everyone who says, they like them for their personality are liars and perverts".

It begs two questions though:
1) What is perverse about enjoying sexiness?
I mean, of course, there is time and place for everything, but what is so bad about character being sexy and not being afraid showing their sex-appeal? Why is the rhetoric of progressives when it comes to sexiness more and more reminds me of rhetoric of hardcore christians and muslims? Especially line of thinking that "we must cover those female characters up for the good of women themselves".

2) And related question - do those people think that sexy character can't be a good character?
It's almost like those people can't see anything past boobs and fanservice, in which case the problem lies not with the characters, but with those supposed "paragons of virtue and progress".

Interestingly (or should I say, predictably), a lot of the same paragons of white knightism, support prostitution becoming legal and porn watching. Guess, in their warped worldview women, allowing their bodies to be used as sex toys for others, are much less harmful for women everywhere than some boobage in a niche Japanese cartoon...

It's almost like those "progressives" go after something that doesn't personally effect them, but can be used to rise a big stink and create a "controversy" out of nothing to get free progressive cookies.

[neatoman]

While I don't think Captain Marvel will be a flop, it would be interesting considering the history of things titled "Captain Marvel".

Ever wondered if the Captain Marvel trademark is cursed? Not a rational assumption by any means but bad things keep happening to it:

Fawcett Captain Marvel was sued into cancellation by DC.
Marvel's Captain Marvel was never a popular character and was only kept around to keep the trademark.
Monica Rambeau only got two issues (ouch) thereby making her least popular character to bear that name... Ever.
Genis-Vell does have a respectable 67 total issues but it's all broken up into three rather short books.
The Skrull imposter got five issues (still more than Monica).
Carol, since becoming Captain Marvel in 2011, has had a total of 65 issues. At first glance this might seem respectable... Until you realise they're split between seven books most of which didn't last more than a year. On average they're nine issues long each and the last two didn't even get six...
Wanna know what makes Carol as Captain Marvel even worse? She had a total of 73 issues over two books as Ms. Marvel, both books lasting longer than any of her CM books. In fact, Kamala Khan as the new Ms. Marvel actually has more issues in either of her two books than any of Carol's Captain Marvel books, one of them even managed to get to 38 issues.


Again, not actually expecting CM to fail here, it would just be funny if it did.

[Galactus]

So if/when Captain Marvel makes a ton of money the narrative from reactionaries will be whatever it makes it should have made more.

Sounds like a great way to make sure you can justify whatever your beef is with the movie regardless of what it is like or how it performs. Not that I can begrudge you for trying, it seemed to belatedly work for the comicsgate crowd until it the movement began to fall apart and it was proven their agenda was a sham and when they got the kind of comics they pushed for it didn't sell and those they piled hate did. I don't know how that will work with movies though, I think you're going to find it difficult to find impartial commentators to spin the kind of numbers the movie will likely do as a bad thing.

Even more so with Episode 9 which (even if I haven't fully warmed to the first two new trilogy movies) will probably make the kind of money that anyone will find hard to argue with.

[neatoman]

So if/when Captain Marvel makes a ton of money the narrative from reactionaries will be whatever it makes it should have made more.

Sure but as of now we're just discussing how the expected amount dropped by 45%. This movie needs to make 380 million to brake even, which is still possible (if not likely) if it opens at 100 million (which I think means domestic only). However, since opening weekend typically makes up about 1/3 of the total gross, it's not hard to imagine why 100 million is far less exciting than 180 million, an estimated 300 million pales in comparison to a 540 million estimate.

Again, I don't expect it to do poorly myself (these movies are pretty much bound to make money at this point), but the signifigantly lowered expectations here are still real.

[Leo656]

a cute animated short using the damsel out of distressed trope for comedy and vegita screams AGENDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Because simply playing it "straight" and showing what actually happened in the films would have done more than enough to make the (valid) point that "Leia don' need no man."

There is simply no NEED to present a revisionist version of events that elevates Leia while simultaneously diminishing all the male characters around her into clueless, helpless idiots. A: That isn't what happened, and B: It's not so much "funny" as it is mean-spirited and purposely diminishing. It's pointless and damaging in ANY context.

That's what shifts it from "comedy" into "agenda-pushing". If they wanted to make the point about Leia being cool, the material speaks for itself; they didn't need to go into revisionist history or "addition through subtraction" (adding to Leia's competence by taking away from everyone else's). I generally subscribe to the philosophy of, "If you flip the genders and now it's plainly offensive, then you should rethink what you're doing."

Would it be "funny" if they did the same skit, with Leia constantly tripping over her skirt and getting distracted by fancy shoes, while Han and Luke flawlessly save the day with their chest-thumping machismo? No, it'd be pretty stupid. And if anyone tries to explain why it's different because "something something Patriarchy", they simply have no argument.

Disney's ownership of Star Wars has been a fascinating social experiment in just how little a corporation can be bothered to care about what their audience actually likes about a franchise or wants to see going forward. The "Chicks Rule, Boys Drool" stuff is so tone-deaf that it's bizarre. The fact that they keep insisting on it despite the persistent vocal backlash just proves that, in wrestling parlance, they're simply "booking to amuse themselves".

[Candy Kappa]

Because simply playing it "straight" and showing what actually happened in the films would have done more than enough to make the (valid) point that "Leia don' need no man."

It's a cartoon, so it's exaggerated, like cartoons usually are, especially shorts. Just redoing frame for frame the actual movie would be boring

There is simply no NEED to present a revisionist version of events that elevates Leia while simultaneously diminishing all the male characters around her into clueless, helpless idiots. A: That isn't what happened, and B: It's not so much "funny" as it is mean-spirited and purposely diminishing. It's pointless and damaging in ANY context.

Hmm, guess I missed the memo, that these shorts are now THE CANON™

[Galactus]

Sure but as of now we're just discussing how the expected amount dropped by 45%. This movie needs to make 380 million to brake even, which is still possible (if not likely) if it opens at 100 million (which I think means domestic only). However, since opening weekend typically makes up about 1/3 of the total gross, it's not hard to imagine why 100 million is far less exciting than 180 million, an estimated 300 million pales in comparison to a 540 million estimate.

Again, I don't expect it to do poorly myself (these movies are pretty much bound to make money at this point), but the signifigantly lowered expectations here are still real.

I haven't personally been following Captain Marvel's box office but it's not the first time there's been a discrepancy with how different companies make their box office estimates. It will likely fluctuate again before the movie releases and frankly many movies beat their estimates. Haven't the recent MCU opened bigger than their widely published estimates.

This is not going to be an Avengers or Black Panther level success and was never going to be but it will be highly profitable for Marvel and it wasn't that long ago these same reactionaries were arguing this movie would be Marvel's first real flop. They'll probably still be arguing that as Disney rakes in the dollars.

Disney's ownership of Star Wars has been a fascinating social experiment in just how little a corporation can be bothered to care about what their audience actually likes about a franchise or wants to see going forward. The "Chicks Rule, Boys Drool" stuff is so tone-deaf that it's bizarre. The fact that they keep insisting on it despite the persistent vocal backlash just proves that, in wrestling parlance, they're simply "booking to amuse themselves".

If box office is indicator they are giving fans what they want.

If you mean die hard Star Wars fans as I said that Solo was exactly the kind of movie die hard fans have been begging for since Lucas announced the movies after the first trilogy. It wasn't a failure or anything but it kinda suggests giving them what they want is not going to hook in the general public.

[oldmanwinters]

Stormtroopers don't hit their intended targets much.
But they shot Leia twice!

[Leo656]

It's a cartoon, so it's exaggerated, like cartoons usually are, especially shorts. Just redoing frame for frame the actual movie would be boring



Hmm, guess I missed the memo, that these shorts are now THE CANON™

Yes or No, would you find it equally "harmless" if they did an opposing skit in which Leia was an incompetent nitwit and her White Male Saviors did all the heavy lifting? Or would that be ridiculous on its face?

Normally, Yes or No would suffice, but I'm afraid I have to ask you to show your work, here. Because to me it's not "humorous" from either side of the fence. Either something is sexist, diminishing, and harmful, or it isn't.

I suspect this is one of those "It's okay to make males look stupid because They're Men and Thus Deserve It" situations. But I'm open to hearing someone explain why something that would be intolerable from one direction is "silly and harmless" from the opposite.

[Voltron]

The argument I hear often is that women HAVE been portrayed that way in media for years. Currently, we know that there's a disparity in portrayal of men and women.

I feel as though we're having several different conversations at the same time as a society.

One group is saying: "We want more minority groups to have major roles as strong, competent characters in media."

I don't think anyone with a shred of decency in them would say boo to that.

The way Hollywood is delivering is by using stupid, bumbling male characters to accentuate the power of women.

This creates a major imbalance in the other direction, as we can't seem to have a story where characters have flaws as a matter of natural course. What I mean is, people are naturally flawed regardless of any other characteristic. Considering sex an inherent flaw is what started this conversation in the first place.

But now the other side has fallen silent.

Star Wars was really important to a lot of kids growing up. Boys especially, since it was a fairy tale for US. Finally, we got to hang out with the knight for the story, instead of watching the princess. We got to live out fantasies and adventures with fleshed out characters.

We can point to other places like comics and cartoons for that, too. The problem there is that superheros at the time didn't really have any flaws. Star Wars characters did.

Luke was green, hot headed and impatient. He runs head first into traps and often pays a price for it. Arguably, Luke never wins a battle by himself.

Han was a scoundrel. He'd do the right thing, but for the wrong reasons. His pride often gets in the way of anything he does.

Even Ben, the wise old teacher, was manipulative in withholding the truth from Luke in order to keep Luke on the straight and narrow.

It wasn't like these were ubermensch gods from Saturday Morning Cartoons who would solve a problem in 22 minutes and still leave time for a pithy joke or two.

So now all us guys are watching these beloved characters get trashed because. . . well, I don't know.

I do believe there's systemic racism and sexism apparent in society. But spearheading a campaign calling men inherently lesser isn't going to fix that. It's like when a teacher punishes the whole class for what a couple students did.

This would be like turning all of the Disney princesses into unrepentant, merciless whores who sleep around on the respectful, upstanding Prince Charming for the fun of it.

I dunno. I think there's a better way to do this.

[Vegita-San]

of course there is. but, hollywood is also forgetting there was an equal amount of stupid male characteres too. lots in hanna barbara, for instance, like shaggy. I don't think it's as one sided as history revisionists would like us to believe. Just that the dumb women characters might have been more popular at the time.

sad part is, the people in charge don't care a bout evening things out. they care about reversing what they see as the tide. and ism'ing anyone who doesn't agree with them out of the picture.

thankfully, I am seeing alot less white knightism in social comment groups, so maybe people are finally waking up to the fact that this isn't the way to fix things.

[Candy Kappa]

Yes or No, would you find it equally "harmless" if they did an opposing skit in which Leia was an incompetent nitwit and her White Male Saviors did all the heavy lifting? Or would that be ridiculous on its face?

Normally, Yes or No would suffice, but I'm afraid I have to ask you to show your work, here. Because to me it's not "humorous" from either side of the fence. Either something is sexist, diminishing, and harmful, or it isn't.

I suspect this is one of those "It's okay to make males look stupid because They're Men and Thus Deserve It" situations. But I'm open to hearing someone explain why something that would be intolerable from one direction is "silly and harmless" from the opposite.

Sure I'll play, even though your "Yes or No" is disingenuous to the situation.

I don't think Han, Luke and Chewie are "incompetent" in the short. It's exaggerated, cause it's a animated short and it's Leia's animated short. She is the main focus, if that makes you bothered, watch the other's animated shorts where they have their moment to shine.

Anything that'd even remotely fit the "incompetent nitwit" might be Luke messing up the rope. But beyond that it's all within the exaggerated frame of the short, plus within the 7 seconds that scene lasted in the short, it shows that Luke isn't your typical macho hero, he's a kid that's just been roped into this adventure.

Leia is in the movie unimpressed by Short-Luke Stormtrooper, and she is in the short. She is sarcastic about "some rescue" in the movie like the short, she is the one taking the blaster from Luke and shoots a hole in the vent and she shoots at Stormtroopers, this is switched in the short for effect, especially with her having a overkill moment and blasts away hitting that domino effect, giving pause where she has a angry-gaze-breathing moment and the guys looking surprised. She is taking charge in the movie, and it's cartoony-fied in the short as her literally throwing Luke and Chewie in the vent and Han doing a side slide look.

Leia did strangle Jabba in a gaudy bikini outfit

Leia did get on the Speeder first and Luke sitting behind her, it's exaggerated since it's a 3 second comedy bit in a cartoon short.

Making a short where Leia is a "incompetent nitwit". Why? Just to make a complete turn on the character, is it parody? is it a deconstruction of tropes or something? Cause Luke, Han and Chewie are not "incompetent nitwits" just because they serve comedic bits.

Here's another short Chewbacca - The Trusty Co-Pilot. Yes, there are more of them and not just Princess Leia - The Rescue , but we all know vegita isn't interested in discussing the actual shorts, just use the one showcasing Leia and whine "WIMIN IN MAH FICTION"

DBvN-FbunfA

They're both pretty comedic relief here as well, but I guess since there's no Leia it's fine.

[Leo656]

I wasn't being disingenuous, so don't project. I simply asked you a question that I kinda/sorta already figured the answer to.

I've never once in my life seen anyone bemoan "womenfolk in fiction" in and of itself. I'm sure people do it, but I've never seen it.

I HAVE seen many people point out that the recent trend is, "Elevate female characters by making male characters appear inferior", and that it isn't good. That there should be another way of making their point. It happens in Star Wars, it happens on the Supergirl show, it happens in lots of places, and it's very clumsily handled in each of them. And it's not one or two "angry males" pointing it out, it's the majority of people with two eyes. So there's probably something to it.

So it's "only" Luke getting tangled in his rope while Leia does all the work. "Harmless". Fine then. Allow someone to produce a similar skit, in which Leia bumbles their escape attempt, getting distracted by becoming preoccupied with shoes or jewelry or something, and watch feminists everywhere cry foul. Because they would. And they wouldn't be wrong to cry foul, as it would be silly.

It's not dissimilar to what they pulled with TLJ. When EVERY angle in their new material from movies and cartoons is based around, "Check out these stupid dudes, and check out these AWESOME chicks, who are stunning and brave!", and it's constant, that's what becomes evident of an "agenda". The fact that it's not one movie or a few seconds of a skit. It's in EVERYTHING they do, and if a person can't see it, it's because they simply choose not to see it.

Most people see it, so... it's probably not just me. And we probably don't all "hate women" and are thus simply overreacting. Like Voltron said, it's probably that they don't know how to take a more even hand in their approach.

[Candy Kappa]

So it's "only" Luke getting tangled in his rope while Leia does all the work. "Harmless". Fine then. Allow someone to produce a similar skit, in which Leia bumbles their escape attempt, getting distracted by becoming preoccupied with shoes or jewelry or something, and watch feminists everywhere cry foul. Because they would. And they wouldn't be wrong to cry foul, as it would be silly.


I find it interesting your go-to examples are Leia being distracted by typical girl coded things like shoes and jewelry. Luke isn't distracted by a cool spaceship or getting a BFG instead of a regular blaster.

He's in a stressing situation and messes up the rope, which he kinda does in the actual movie, at least he's taking his sweet ass time unwinding the rope while Leia is given the blaster and is shooting at Troopers, he doesn't get tangled in the movie, but we're talking about a 7 second clip compared to a scene that's well over a minute long, cartoons exaggerates just like when Bugs Bunny squashes and stretches when he's doing a extreme motion.


But hey, lets scoff at the non-canon animated comedy short that's making a character look silly. How dare they!

6mB3VDkkVZY

[Vegita-San]

Most people see it, so... it's probably not just me. And we probably don't all "hate women" and are thus simply overreacting. Like Voltron said, it's probably that they don't know how to take a more even hand in their approach.

I can't TELL you the amount of people that think I hate women and want them to fail, just because I hate fake femenists and what they are doing to my favorite franchises.

It's a derangment syndrome that first started on another forum and has soon spread to all the others. and it all started with me having fun making fun of how bad we all knew feigbusters was going to be, and just not caring if anyone thought i was going overboard...

All that happened because formerly sane people, who's opinions I respected, went into the realm of derangment syndrome and stopped listening to what was being said...and started acting super crazy. so, why not join the bandwagon at that point?

Honestly, it's still downright scary the amount of people derangement syndrome hits. those who refuse to see what hollywood is doing, because they either agree with it, or just don't care.

And i've had to stop talking to more and more people because of it. cause it's just not sane to keep the convo going anymore.

[Candy Kappa]

Or, maybe it's you and how you articulate yourself if it's happening on other forums as well.

[oldmanwinters]

I like this fan-theory that the all-but-botched rescue of Han Solo was actually Leia's ill-conceived plan that Luke was trying to counter-plan against.
https://www.avclub.com/wait-what-exactly-was-luke-skywalker-s-plan-in-return-1823427030
https://twitter.com/mikeryan/status/968937882999250945

[Sumac]

If box office is indicator they are giving fans what they want.
I don't think that fans wanted mess called The Last Jedi.
And the box-office is not always an indication of success. DC movies were also box office hits, but...

[Andrew NDB]

Even "Batman & Robin" made money.

[Prowler]

I don't envy modern writers.
They have stuck between hammer and anvil.

How do you write good female (minority) character, without attracting ire of sizable portion of lunatics from one side or the other?

If you write them overcompetent you end up with Mary Sue, if you write them as competent as everyone, somebody would be offended saying that "female character is bad, because she is nothing special".

Yeah, exactly. At this point, it feels like you can't win no matter what. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A bit unrelated to SW, but even a Korean friend of mine told me recently that in his country there's something called Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, and that apparently now they want to control K-pop, by telling the industry to stop producing idol groups full of good looking girls. But nothing is said about guys, so groups like BTS will be fine. A boys band full of hot guys is fine but not a girls band with hot girls? I mean, come on now, the main reeson why K-pop is even popular in the first place is because of eye candy. Pop music is generally a quite sexualised genre already. When people listen to pop music they want a catchy beat and also a good looking singer to look at. So if anything, this might actually ruin the k-pop industry. :lol:

[Autbot_Benz]

How about a Rose Tico Show


DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Lucasfilm is reportedly considering developing a Rose Tico TV Series. (Source: https://hnentertainment.co/exclusive-list-of-disney-star-wars-series-disney-lucasfilm-is-considering/ …)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

How about a Rose Tico Show


DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Lucasfilm is reportedly considering developing a Rose Tico TV Series. (Source: https://hnentertainment.co/exclusive-list-of-disney-star-wars-series-disney-lucasfilm-is-considering/ …)

Oh GAWD. Worst character ever.

Rey's fine. Not well written, but at least she understands heroic sacrifice.

[TurtleTitan97]

How about a Rose Tico Show


DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Lucasfilm is reportedly considering developing a Rose Tico TV Series. (Source: https://hnentertainment.co/exclusive-list-of-disney-star-wars-series-disney-lucasfilm-is-considering/ …)

….Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?! :x

How about we get a spin off that people actually want? Like maybe, I don't know, an Ahsoka/Sabine spin off that pick up where Rebels left off?

[Autbot_Benz]

….Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?! :x

How about we get a spin off that people actually want? Like maybe, I don't know, an Ahsoka/Sabine spin off that pick up where Rebels left off?

I want that Too Rebels was amazing

[Leo656]

:lol: Rose was a sh*t character and NOBODY bought her action figure. $3.99 Clearance at Target for a $20 figure. Dozens and dozens of them, peg-warming for almost a year. Nobody cares about Rose.

But sure, let's shine a little more light on her, even though nobody cares. No, no "agenda"; they're just supplying the HUGE, insatiable demand for more Rose Tico material. :lol:

I doubt they're actually doing a show about her, but it would be extremely telling if they did. Jar Jar deserves a show more than she does. But yeah, I doubt it.

[sdp]

I didn't read the whole thread but do we really need another SWs thread where we all whine about the same things? Don't get me wrong I hate Disney SWs but we can start to move on from this.

SJW crap is indeed all over SWs now but it really isn't the main problem of the direction that Star Wars took. Disney was just money hungry and ruined what was a special franchise with unoriginal rehashes and boring new movies, over saturating it while killing anything cool that came before it, SWs was an event, something special, now it's just whatever. And it's sad but I do feel less attachment to this franchise now and while the special memories I have of it from before Disney (the dark times), I just don't feel passionate about it.

I of course will watch Ep.IX in theaters just to see how the trilogy ends, I'm sure most of the haters of the new movies will as well, secretly wishing that somehow things can be better even if we know they won't. I likely will watch more SWs content even if Ep. IX sucks but I'll be a super passive fan who will check the backlog of movies that Disney has released over the years one weekend I'm bored. That's what SWs is now for me and I'm sure many others, something we outgrew.

Yes Episode IX will very well at the box office, but less than TFA, maybe more than TLJ for being the "final" movie, especially if it's good. That doesn't mean it won't be a disappointment for Disney, this is Star Wars after all, they weren't happy with the reactions to TLJ or Solo and used all their power to make it political so people would defend it on political points alone. The fact that they completely changed their plans from annual movies to not knowing what's in store after IX and not even having a teaser for Ep. IX speaks more than any internet apologist says.

RIP Star Wars

[Leo656]

I didn't read the whole thread but do we really need another SWs thread where we all whine about the same things?

Fair point. It's all already been said.

I honestly don't know if I will go see Ep. IX in theaters. I skipped Rogue One and Solo, still haven't seen them and very little genuine desire to.

What was once "Must-See Event Viewing" has become "I'll get around to it one day." It's tough to get out to the movies with my work schedule and I generally miss lots of things I'm actually excited to see. I'm not excited at all for Episode IX; if I go, it will strictly be out of obligation and wanting to see what, if anything, they "fixed" from the last one.

Is what it is, but... I actually was pretty excited for The Last Jedi until I actually SAW the f*ckin' thing. Thus, I kinda don't feel like it's wise for me to get excited about anything Star Wars anymore.

[Sumac]

Yeah, exactly. At this point, it feels like you can't win no matter what. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A bit unrelated to SW, but even a Korean friend of mine told me recently that in his country there's something called Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, and that apparently now they want to control K-pop, by telling the industry to stop producing idol groups full of good looking girls. But nothing is said about guys, so groups like BTS will be fine. A boys band full of hot guys is fine but not a girls band with hot girls? I mean, come on now, the main reeson why K-pop is even popular in the first place is because of eye candy. Pop music is generally a quite sexualised genre already. When people listen to pop music they want a catchy beat and also a good looking singer to look at. So if anything, this might actually ruin the k-pop industry. :lol:
I bet this Ministry of Love will demand that girl groups should consist from fat, sorry, bodypositive women. :)

[Voltron]

A bit unrelated to SW, but even a Korean friend of mine told me recently that in his country there's something called Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, and that apparently now they want to control K-pop, by telling the industry to stop producing idol groups full of good looking girls. But nothing is said about guys, so groups like BTS will be fine. A boys band full of hot guys is fine but not a girls band with hot girls? I mean, come on now, the main reeson why K-pop is even popular in the first place is because of eye candy. Pop music is generally a quite sexualised genre already. When people listen to pop music they want a catchy beat and also a good looking singer to look at. So if anything, this might actually ruin the k-pop industry.

Can you find something to corroborate this? I went looking, but of the controversies that popped up, none of them mentioned this.

[Andrew NDB]

How about a Rose Tico Show


DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Lucasfilm is reportedly considering developing a Rose Tico TV Series. (Source: https://hnentertainment.co/exclusive-list-of-disney-star-wars-series-disney-lucasfilm-is-considering/ …)

Oh jesus god... this is so crazy it must be true.

[Vegita-San]

so, not doubling down on agenda....lucasfilm is going out right crazy mental.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh jesus god... this is so crazy it must be true.

Pretty much how I feel about it.

Basically, the actress took so much heat (not her fault, the script's fault) that this is a way Disney can rally behind her and show "Hey, STFU, haters! Rose is an awesome character! In fact, you're gonna get a whole TV SHOW about her!"

It ain't even doubling down, it's tripling down.

I've been wondering if JJ Abrams will even include this character to any substantial amount. Probably mandated to include her by whoever higher up cuts the checks.

Makes me glad Star Trek isn't as bad off as Star Wars. :tlol: JJ Abrams really shortchanged us with those new movies, but damn. At least nobody made a movie with Captain Picard running off to pout after trying to kill his nephew.

Wait. :teek: That's not what the Picard show is gonna be about, is it?

*rewatches Generations* Never mind, Rene and Robert are both dead. We're safe. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

I've been wondering if JJ Abrams will even include this character to any substantial amount. Probably mandated to include her by whoever higher up cuts the checks.

She's definitely in it. If Benicio Del Toro had quit Instagram in a huff maybe he'd be in IX, too.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

She's definitely in it. If Benicio Del Toro had quit Instagram in a huff maybe he'd be in IX, too.

:tlol: Good point.

I feel bad for the actress, really. But I feel worse for Hamill.

[Prowler]

Can you find something to corroborate this? I went looking, but of the controversies that popped up, none of them mentioned this.

I had not asked him for proof initially. But today I did and he provided me three links:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/19/south-korean-gender-ministry-sparks-k-pop-controversy-cap-singers/

https://onehallyu.com/topic/770035-%E3%80%90-nb-%E3%80%91-ministry-of-gender-equality-suggests-that-tv-shows-not-only-feature-the-same-pretty-face/

In the second link apparently someone is providing an English translation of Korean sources, but they're mostly translating comments, it seems. Seems like a K-pop forum of some sort.

The other link he provided me was of Naver. It's in Korean and he says it's the biggest news portal for Korean news. I doubt anyone here speaks Korean(I don't either, but here goes:
https://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=101&oid=008&aid=0004175822

K.pop is indeed shallow and all flash and no substance, but that's its main selling point, let's face it.

[newfan]

At least nobody made a movie with Captain Picard running off to pout after trying to kill his nephew.
:

and don't forget the creature milk!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

and don't forget the creature milk!

Gotta milk those Cardassian voles. Where do you think kanar comes from?

[Vegita-San]

:tlol: Good point.

I feel bad for the actress, really. But I feel worse for Hamill.

i did feel sorry for hamill until he went all npc on us and said women should rule us.

[Andrew NDB]

i did feel sorry for hamill until he went all npc on us and said women should rule us.

That did numb the pain a tiny bit, come to think of it...

[Sumac]

The silver lining here it is very unlikely anyone will watch this, unless by some unbelievable miracle it would end up as a decent show.

Of course, Disney always can say that it wasn't watched because of "evil white male conspiracy", but at this point even the last idiot will figure out that they are trying to justify their creative impotency by appropriating political buzzwords.

[Andrew NDB]

Now let's celebrate the frickin' Handmaidens...

https://www.starwars.com/news/celebrating-padme-and-her-handmaidens-in-queens-shadow?cmp=smc%7C2173166329

[snake]

It’s in promotion of a new Padme based book. Like most of the new canon books, I’m willing to bet it’s pretty good. If there’s one thing I can’t fault Disney on, it’s the novels are enjoyable enough, even if they’re mostly inconsequential side-stories.

[Xav]

Anyone else notice something off about the scenes recreated in this video?

8g7nwPXHtVg

[Andrew NDB]

Brie Larson really, really wants to be in a Star Wars movie.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/captain-marvel-star-brie-larson-shows-shes-ready-to-join-star-wars-with-awesome-new-social-media-post-a169367?fbclid=IwAR3UTcsjyCcGLgvzYylPBjDEwLTUrDvLA QR57RaQZkOXRo9rZ25sW-Q_BwI

https://movieweb.com/brie-larson-jedi-star-wars-the-force/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Brie Larson really, really wants to be in a Star Wars movie.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/captain-marvel-star-brie-larson-shows-shes-ready-to-join-star-wars-with-awesome-new-social-media-post-a169367?fbclid=IwAR3UTcsjyCcGLgvzYylPBjDEwLTUrDvLA QR57RaQZkOXRo9rZ25sW-Q_BwI

https://movieweb.com/brie-larson-jedi-star-wars-the-force/

Hell, cast her as Rey's mom. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

Hell, cast her as Rey's mom. :tlol:

If there wasn't only two years age difference between them, that'd be very fitting, wouldn't it?

I say cast her in the doomed pit that is Rian Johnson's trilogy.

[neatoman]

Brie Larson really, really wants to be in a Star Wars movie.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/captain-marvel-star-brie-larson-shows-shes-ready-to-join-star-wars-with-awesome-new-social-media-post-a169367?fbclid=IwAR3UTcsjyCcGLgvzYylPBjDEwLTUrDvLA QR57RaQZkOXRo9rZ25sW-Q_BwI

https://movieweb.com/brie-larson-jedi-star-wars-the-force/

OK, she can voice a slow moving grass alien in a waiting room.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If there wasn't only two years age difference between them, that'd be very fitting, wouldn't it?

I say cast her in the doomed pit that is Rian Johnson's trilogy.

Brie looks more than just 2 years older than Daisy Ridley. :teek:

[Andrew NDB]

Brie looks more than just 2 years older than Daisy Ridley. :teek:

All that scowling and anger is prematurely aging her. Daisy Ridley largely seems pretty chill.

[Andrew NDB]

Star Wars is struggling to win over the new generation of kids:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

Can't imagine why.

[Vegita-San]

Even kids can recognize crap. Disney will learn the hard way with Marvel phase 4.

[The Deadman]

Kids don't understand WHY they're crap, though. And something being crap is subjective.

[Sumac]

Star Wars is struggling to win over the new generation of kids:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

Can't imagine why.
Step 1: take a beloved property;
Step 2: give the property at the hands of the committee;
Step 3: let the committee to butcher everything good about property into safe generic project;
Step 4: project fails;
Step 5: blame critics, white men, Russian trolls, whoever, for its failure;
Step 6: repeat all steps, but this time pre-emptively say that everyone who don't like this movie are "nazis", racists, sexists and so on;
(Step 7: be surprised, when a lot of people despise your projects);

[CyberCubed]

For the most part Star Wars only intended to tell one story and it ended. The original trilogy was that, and then the prequels showed the rise of Darth Vader. To most people the entire EU, comics, novels...don't exist. Star Wars was "over" back in 2005.

This isn't like DC or Marvel superheroes that go on forever because they can tell endless stories and reboots over and over again with different variations. Star Wars isn't really something that can go on and on, it's the same reason half the old EU felt like fanfiction.

Disney got a new trilogy out of it and some spinoffs, but it should end here. We know it won't because of yet another movie trilogy happening in the 2020's, but it is what it is.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

For the most part Star Wars only intended to tell one story and it ended. The original trilogy was that, and then the prequels showed the rise of Darth Vader. To most people the entire EU, comics, novels...don't exist. Star Wars was "over" back in 2005.

This isn't like DC or Marvel superheroes that go on forever because they can tell endless stories and reboots over and over again with different variations. Star Wars isn't really something that can go on and on, it's the same reason half the old EU felt like fanfiction.

Disney got a new trilogy out of it and some spinoffs, but it should end here. We know it won't because of yet another movie trilogy happening in the 2020's, but it is what it is.

Just curious, Cubed, but why the disdain for books and comics that continue franchises past the on-screen canon? You're dismissive of both the Star Trek and Star Wars extended universes.

Granted, there are quite a few duds in the EUs, but there are a lot of gems, too.

[Andrew NDB]

He's not wrong, though. To "most" people, the SW EU stuff doesn't exist and never did.

[CyberCubed]

Most people just don’t know or read them. Ask an average person who Thrawn, Mara Jade, or Han and Leia’s Kids from the comics are and most people will have never heard of them.

In terms of Star Trek do you think most people outside of hardcore fan consider the novels/comics that continued the voyages of the original series, Next Generation, DS9, part of the series or canon? Most people never read them. Whatever happens outside of shows or movies “doesn’t exist” for most people.

The TMNT franchise has a similar problem. IDW TMNT started in 2011 and is now almost a decade old and one of the longest lasting TMNT universes...yet your average TMNT fan has never heard about “Old Hob” and has no idea who that is despite debuting back in 2011.

Sometimes I think people forget how obscure comics really are, or how novels that continue after shows get canceled are rarely talked about or forgotten.

[Vegita-San]

hmm...makes sense

3n3El923_Xo

[Coola Yagami]

Hate to say but I agree with Cubed. The only Star Wars that counts are the movies. I don't take any of the spin off material as canon, cause with so many books, comics and cartoons there are bound to be contradictions up the wazoo. Then the next movie (which isn't paying attention to all that crap) will come out with new lore or whatever that contradicts the cartoon of whatever.

TMNT is different. IDW is it's own canon and kids can understand the Bay Turtles are not the 2012 Turtles or the Rise Turtles.

Star Wars on the other hand, or at least their fanbase us trying too hard to say ALL their stuff is canon.

[Andrew NDB]

Kathleen Kennedy:

"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does. You start by talking to filmmakers who you think exhibit the sensibilities that you’re looking for."

Kennedy went on to add that the development process starts with carefully considering a select number of filmmakers who can deliver on certain sensibilities that Lucasfilm is looking for. From there, it's about navigating the reality that what you may have planned to do might not "work out exactly the way you want."

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/making-a-star-wars-film-is-difficult-due-to-a-lack-of-comics-and-novels-says-lucasfilm-president-a171739?fbclid=IwAR2JE78144zBWf5aqUsc_xD0MFrWG5WYI 7d4eOwWv9WVgaRUiMaZQ644SpM

[Vegita-San]

anyone who still defends her at this point is the worlds most stupid stock holder that deserves to loose everything they have.

smh.

filoni we trust.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Kathleen Kennedy:

"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does. You start by talking to filmmakers who you think exhibit the sensibilities that you’re looking for."

Kennedy went on to add that the development process starts with carefully considering a select number of filmmakers who can deliver on certain sensibilities that Lucasfilm is looking for. From there, it's about navigating the reality that what you may have planned to do might not "work out exactly the way you want."

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/making-a-star-wars-film-is-difficult-due-to-a-lack-of-comics-and-novels-says-lucasfilm-president-a171739?fbclid=IwAR2JE78144zBWf5aqUsc_xD0MFrWG5WYI 7d4eOwWv9WVgaRUiMaZQ644SpM

Yeah, I saw that. Nothing surprises me anymore. Except, I guess, that The Mandalorian seems to be pretty good so far.

[Andrew NDB]

Star Wars is "all about family."

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-families-presented-by-ebay?cmp=smc%7C2870669113

[TommyT]

Kathleen Kennedy:

[I]"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does. You start by talking to filmmakers who you think exhibit the sensibilities that you’re looking for."


I'm in no way defending her, but let's be honest - this was taken WAY out of context.

There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.

Meaning, the film itself is not "pre conceived" the way GOT is, or a comicbook storyline is.
They're crafting story that can tie into the Universe, but wasn't a novel before hand. There are novels, and comics and all kinds of supporting material, but they aren't adapting those.
Some fans may want them too, and perhaps the final 3 films would have been better if they'd followed the supplemental stories more closely, but that isn't what she said.

I don't think the new films are very good, nore do I like the message, but we shouldn't take her out of context. Hang her for the crime she committed, not suspected.
She IS injecting SJW culture hard into the films. She wants it to support leftist politics, but she isn't ignorant of the existing material she could draw from.

[Ninjinister]

a cute animated short using the damsel out of distressed trope for comedy and vegita screams AGENDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

https://media.giphy.com/media/YEOhCFRF9NFba/giphy.gif

I'm tryin'a figure out why "agenda" is supposed to be bad whenever someone says it. If you don't have an agenda, you have no direction. And why is it only childish bigots that always whine about people having one?

[Voltron]

Guys, I'm asking you not to make this political. If you don't like the movies, then don't see them. This isn't something you have to pay attention to. If you're having trouble dealing with constant media bombardment, then get away from media for awhile. Take a breather.