Classic Simpsons Episode Pulled From Rotation

[ZariusTwo]

"Stark Raving Dad" is being pulled from rotation following the airing of Leaving Neverland

https://www.nme.com/news/music/simpsons-pull-michael-jackson-episode-amid-sex-abuse-allegations-2459022

[neatoman]

Is it only pulled from airing on TV or will it still be on home releases?

[ZariusTwo]

Is it only pulled from airing on TV or will it still be on home releases?

It's been pulled from streaming too

[neatoman]

It's been pulled from streaming too

Oh well, they've made DVDs of season 3 since 2003, so I guess it's not really a problem unless you wanted an HD master.

[snake]

Regardless of how you feel about the MJ situation, I think the biggest takeaway from all of this is the fraility of “digital media”. Think about it. All a company has to do to “kill” something is pull it. Have a “problematic” episode that you don’t want to be seen again? Pull the plug. Sometimes it doesn’t even take a reason to pull something. What if it’s lack of interest, or when a show is pulled from Netflix because of licensing contracts? What if there’s no physical release? Scary stuff, especially if you care about the preservation of media.

[Leo656]

Regardless of how you feel about the MJ situation, I think the biggest takeaway from all of this is the fraility of “digital media”. Think about it. All a company has to do to “kill” something is pull it. Have a “problematic” episode that you don’t want to be seen again? Pull the plug. Sometimes it doesn’t even take a reason to pull something. What if it’s lack of interest, or when a show is pulled from Netflix because of licensing contracts? What if there’s no physical release? Scary stuff, especially if you care about the preservation of media.

I agree.

In the oft-forgotten DC event "Armageddon 2001", there's a main subplot about people being arrested or even executed for possession of "Contraband Media". Books, discs, etc., anything the government has deemed "problematic" has been made illegal, and people are arrested or thrown into camps as "subversives" simply for owning things the government has decided that people shouldn't have access to. As a child, I found it quite chilling, but even then I could see that it was a future that wasn't very far away.

We're now heading there rapidly. That's always been the endgame of the All-Digital "revolution": Maximum information control, ergo Thought Control. And if you don't believe it, well... you're a fool.

[ZariusTwo]

The home releases will be affected

The episode has been pulled from syndication and will no longer be included in physical retail copies of the third season

https://www.cbr.com/simpsons-michael-jackson-episode-pulled/

[Andrew NDB]

In the oft-forgotten DC event "Armageddon 2001",

Monarch was a pimp.

[Leo656]

Such a great villain, ruined by one of the very first "leaks". Shame. Great story otherwise. That was one of the best Summer Event cross-overs they've ever done.

Also, F*CKING GREAT, looks like I have to scramble to get the DVD box set for that season, now. :roll: THANKS, crybabies, for making the decision that I shouldn't be allowed to own something because someone who was involved in it was accused of doing Bad Things that were never ultimately proven.

HEY, here's a thought: many pro athletes are CAUGHT and CONVICTED of rape, drug offenses, and violent crimes. Last I checked, you could still buy a Pac-Man Jones jersey without a problem. :roll: WHY are we so selective in our moral outrage, Number 1, and Number 2, WHO gets to decide these things?

F*cking bullsh*t. Score One for the f*cking Thought Police. Thank GOD that they're here to protect us from ourselves. I'm sure Michael Jackson's guest spot on a cartoon show from 30 f*cking years ago is a supremely harmful in the here and now. :roll:

I know I've said this before, but Jesus, do I hate people.

[Candy Kappa]

If Disney and WB can release cartoons that are on the iffy side from the past with a simple disclaimer at the beginning of the showing, then everyone else can too.

If Birth of an Nation can be sold on Amazon in 4k, you can have a episode with MJ guest voicing, jeeezus on a pogo stick this is dumb.

[Leo656]

Agreed.

I'm not at all a fan of policing content. It's up to the individual to decide for themselves if they Do or Do Not wish to peruse the content. Movies, music, TV, cartoons, sports, pornography, what-the-f*ck EVER... if you don't wanna look at it, walk away. But DON'T presume to decide for me and everyone else what I should be "allowed" to look at.

OJ Simpson murdered two people. I can go to FYE and buy the Naked Gun movies RIGHT NOW if I feel like it. This is relevant, because both OJ and MJ were found not guilty in a court of law, despite many people feeling they were guilty. Well, regardless of what we may think, they were acquitted in the eyes of the law, so it's a little late for the Moral Outrage NOW. And censorship, in EITHER case, is NOT a solution.

That Season 3 set is gonna f*cking skyrocket in price now. :tgrumble: It's already like $60 Used. I don't have time for this sh*t, damn it. F*cking liberals.

[Andrew NDB]

It IS a pretty horrific precedent, particularly as the industry pushes us into digital-only.

Like, let's say we're 5, 10 years from now, and now nobody's printing any more Blu-rays or DVDs or anything. You could be watching something, anything... like, Season 5, episode 3 of your favorite show. A month later, an actor in it went down for groping someone, or saying something bad on Twitter or whatever... now the studio can just remove that episode from existence, basically, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Leofan26]

I mean, I have the classic earlier episodes DVD so. Its only being pulled from places like Fox right?

Thank goodness Disney doesn't own Scooby rights, they could pull episodes for those shows or films they feel are too violent like Zombie Island : /

[snake]

That's scarier when you consider it's bound to happen to a digital-only show as more shows go that route. This is one of the reasons why I have no problem with pirating, because it's essentially media preservation, and when one of these streaming services inevitably fails, SOMEONE will still have the media available to host somewhere else.

The problem with pirating aside from legalities is mostly quality. There are some shows out there that either do not have HD rips or are almost impossible to find, because of either how niche they are or simply that they've never been uploaded anywhere before.

What we need to do is start bootleging blu-rays and dvds again using only the highest quality picture available for preservation purposes, especially for shows that don't have an official release or may not get one. A lot of western cartoons, for example, do not have official releases despite huge companies such as Disney owning them. Hell, the only way to view them at this point is piracy or illegal streaming.

[ZariusTwo]

Even Seseme Street puts up a disclaimer before showing footage of Kermit the Frog flipping off on Cookie Monster

[Leo656]

This all started with R. Kelly. So are they gonna ban Space Jam?

With an expensive sequel in development, something tells me that I already know the answer to that question.

Nobody should be banning anything. This is stupid.

[Sumac]

That's scarier when you consider it's bound to happen to a digital-only show as more shows go that route. This is one of the reasons why I have no problem with pirating, because it's essentially media preservation, and when one of these streaming services inevitably fails, SOMEONE will still have the media available to host somewhere else.

The problem with pirating aside from legalities is mostly quality. There are some shows out there that either do not have HD rips or are almost impossible to find, because of either how niche they are or simply that they've never been uploaded anywhere before.

What we need to do is start bootleging blu-rays and dvds again using only the highest quality picture available for preservation purposes, especially for shows that don't have an official release or may not get one. A lot of western cartoons, for example, do not have official releases despite huge companies such as Disney owning them. Hell, the only way to view them at this point is piracy or illegal streaming.
This has already had happened with several digital-only video games.
They have been removed from storefronts and there is no legal opportunity to get them again.

Guess, pirates won't be without work for a long time, even in the new era.

[Jester]

I wonder how long before all episodes featuring Apu are pulled....

[Xav]

fliLsaB0ooc

[Leo656]

I wonder how long before all episodes featuring Apu are pulled....

Only a matter of time.

Very often, people insist to me that society is NOT circling the drain, and that people are NOT getting dumber. This always gives me a very good idea about who has and has not actually gone the f*ck outside, talked to another human being face-to-face, or even bothered to look at the news recently. Because whenever the so-called "progressives" earn another yard, it sets everyone back by about 10, at least.

[Egon1982]

This is getting ridiculous

[sdp]

Physical media just gets more expensive even if it still "exists", most of the expensive stuff that is available in physical media is only enjoyed by most through digital piracy so that argument isn't valid. Something being digitally native means it's generally easier to pirate, most of the games that people complain aren't available anymore have still been archived for the future, it's no different than if a physical game had stopped producing new copies.

As far as this being pulled it's god awful, I'm tired of this culture war, the alt-right and the SJW have ruined everything. **** them.

[Skinrash]

Meanwhile, TeenNick is still airing Ren and Stimpy despite John K also being accused of being a child-grooming pedo. So at least there is one network out there letting the viewers decide for themselves wether or not to see something made by a controversial creator.

Has any network banned the media Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein worked on yet?

[snake]

To my knowledge; Cosby yes, Weinstein no. It’s a weird double standard as to what gets pulled and what doesn’t.

[Leo656]

Ain't it? Like, Jimmy Page once kept a 13-year old girl as his live-in coke and sex slave for like, a year. Now, to this day, the girl (well, woman, now) swears that it was the best time she's had in her entire life, but regardless, I can't even count how many felonies were racked up right there. But in spite of this, they're not pulling "Stairway to Heaven" off of the radio. They're not banning all future pressings of "Zeppelin IV".

Now, they SHOULDN'T be doing any of those things, anyway. But it's rather interesting that it's never even been part of a conversation, whereas R. Kelly and Michael Jackson can be wiped from the records completely because someone arbitrarily decided that it was best for everyone.

If all I ever had to do for a living was stand around pointing out the double-standards and hypocrisy of the entire human race, I'd be a billionaire. There's certainly no shortage of material to work with, that's for sure.

[Xav]

So does this mean that "Do The Bartman" is going to get wiped from history too?

[Candy Kappa]

I bet, a few more episodes will be "banned" and removed from future collections. And then, a few years later they'll release a "Simpson's Naughtiest" DVD set.

And it'll be a DVD set and never release a blu-Ray set, so it'll stick out like a sore thumb.

[Leo656]

I for one vow to continue to do The Bartman - poorly - and continue giving zero f*cks who don't like it.

[raph27]

To be honest I wasn't too bent up about this until I found out about it getting pulled from DVDs. That's a complete disgrace. Even when this happened with South Park and the Muhammed episodes, they kept them on the home media release. (At least for most regions, I think it was Australia that had it cut.)

Like many others have said, it brings to mind the disadvantages of the all-digital media era that things are trying to be pushed to. Luckily I grabbed the third season from Half Price Books a year or so ago, at least I've got that.

Already looking at Ebay, the vultures are out. Copies are running $75+ and they all have "Controversial Episode!!! Michael Jackson!! RARE!!" in the titles. Makes me sick.

[Utrommaniac]

I just question why it wasn't pulled years ago, since the accusations are basically old news...

HOWEVER (appropriately with Grandpa Abe?)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/077ce972d390aeb7482c2e9424d79483/tumblr_pnutmcXDNx1r7bfz7_500.jpg

[Leo656]

I just question why it wasn't pulled years ago, since the accusations are basically old news...


Because it's wrong and sets a horrible precedent, is why.

Guilty or innocent, the man's creative works are a matter of public record, and furthermore, it's not like he's in any position to further profit from those works. Pretending that they never existed and trying to prevent anyone from ever enjoying them again doesn't solve anything.

It's just the natural human reaction when faced with an "injustice" that we can't control, we blindly flail around looking for something about it which we CAN control. In this case, the accusations have once again gotten everyone's dander worked up, and this one impotent gesture is the only thing anyone can think of to somehow "do right".

It's not right. It's absolutely wrong. But, it's all anyone has the power to do, and people really, really don't like feeling helpless.

[Sumac]

Guilty or innocent, the man's creative works are a matter of public record, and furthermore, it's not like he's in any position to further profit from those works. Pretending that they never existed and trying to prevent anyone from ever enjoying them again doesn't solve anything.
Golden words.

Now, I wish people on the left would have listened to it, because, they are apparently very much OK with banning legacies of the past years , because, it doesn't fit their modern "cultural norms".

[Leo656]

I agree, and I say that those people should be prepared to never watch TV, movies, or listen to music again, if this is the standard we choose to set. Because a lot of entertainers aren't good people and do horrendous things. Being picky-choosy in how we "punish" them is disingenuous.

We either need to be serious about "separating art from the artist" or just give up on entertaining ourselves. If every famous person who did horrible things was erased from history, we'd have nothing.

[Prowler]

Once again, Leo656 said everything that needs to be said about the subject matter and worded it better than most people could ever do. So all I can do is say I agree with everything you've said, Leo.


We either need to be serious about "separating art from the artist" or just give up on entertaining ourselves. If every famous person who did horrible things was erased from history, we'd have nothing.
For starters, rock 'n' roll and rap music would be gone forever. I could live with rap music going away, but I could NOT live without rock 'n' roll. :trazz:

[Wesley]

Once again, Leo656 said everything that needs to be said about the subject matter and worded it better than most people could ever do. So all I can do is say I agree with everything you've said, Leo.


For starters, rock 'n' roll and rap music would be gone forever. I could live with rap music going away, but I could NOT live without rock 'n' roll. :trazz:

Agreed. If one doesn’t like this episode of The Simpsons, don’t watch it.

[snake]

We all agree that he totally touched those kids though, right?

[Prowler]

We all agree that he totally touched those kids though, right?
I've never read about MJ's allegations, but I don't really believe he was innocent.

That being said, even after all the known allegations I barely noticed anyone losing respect for him and his music. MJ has a ton of fans and when he died back in 2009 people talked about it all day all over the world. And all they did was talk about his music.

Funny enough, when MJ died, it was a point in time where he was already fading away a bit from the public sphere. You knew he was around still, but didn't hear from him.

Anyway, I'm not exactly a Michael Jackson fan, so I don't have the same dilemma as his fans do when it comes to this. That being said, I like a couple of his songs. Thriller and Bad, in particular. I find Beat It overrated, however.

[Sumac]

We all agree that he totally touched those kids though, right?
I wasn't there, so I can't tell.

What I can tell, it's not a reason to ban anything from TV or Internet.

[ZariusTwo]

New interview with Al Jean

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-simpsons-boss-al-jean-michael-jackson-used-the-show-to-groom-boys

Relevant bits:

The very first episode of Season 3, “Stark Raving Dad,” featuring the voice of Michael Jackson made some news recently when it was revealed that you decided to remove the episode after watching the Jackson documentary Leaving Neverland. That must have been a difficult decision for you, seeing as you wrote it and it was your first episode at the reins.

Yes. It wasn’t something that makes me happy. It’s something I agree with completely. What saddens me is, if you watch that documentary—which I did, and several of us here did—and you watch that episode, honestly, it looks like the episode was used by Michael Jackson for something other than what we’d intended it. It wasn’t just a comedy to him, it was something that was used as a tool. And I strongly believe that. That, to me, is my belief, and it’s why I think removing it is appropriate. I lose a little bit of money financially, it’s not something that’s great personally to lose one of the most successful things I ever did, but I totally think it’s the right move. I don’t believe in going through and making judgments on every guest star and saying “this one was bad, that one was bad,” but the episode itself has a false purpose, and that’s what I object to about it now.

And the false purpose was what?

I think it was part of what he used to groom boys. I really don’t know, and I should be very careful because this is not something I know personally, but as far as what I think, that’s what I think. And that makes me very, very sad.

Did Michael Jackson write the song that he and Bart sing to Lisa to cheer her up, and that includes Michael’s character singing, “And your first kiss from a boy…”

He did. But I’d really not talk about it anymore because I don’t want to belabor it. It’s from the heart, on our part, and I think Jim put it really well. It’s not for any other reason that for what I just said, where if you watch the documentary and then you watch that episode, something’s amiss.

[B]Have you had similar dilemmas in the past? For example, did you ever consider removing Dr. Hibbert, who’s of course a spin on Bill Cosby?

Well, there’s a different for that, which is he was a satire—he was never voiced by Cosby. He wasn’t entirely a Cosby parody either, which is why I don’t think anybody looks at the character now and says “Oh, that’s Bill Cosby.” It’s a different thing. Nobody’s perfect, and other guest stars have been far from perfect, but this is the only episode where there was a point to the episode that was other than just having the guest star do a comic performance on the guest star’s part, which I didn’t realize at the time.

[Leo656]

So, this guy's thinking was, MJ only did the episode so he could try and persuade kids to get in bed with him, by saying he was in an episode of The Simpsons? Am I reading that right?

They didn't even put his name in the credits, and for years in the pre-Internet age it was disputed among some people as to whether or not it was really even him. MJ may as well have tried to woo them with the line, "I literally built the moon out of cheese", for it would have been about as easy to verify back in 1992.

I HIGHLY doubt that "street cred with the kiddies" was MJ's motivation for doing the episode. I really don't think someone saying "I guest-voiced on The Simpsons" would get ANYONE too excited, of any age or gender, not even back then. More like, "He was a fan of the show and got a nice check", same as every other celebrity guest they've had.

Talk about reading way too much into things. Good grief. This guy sounds like a putz.