TMNT #92 Preview and Discussion

[AlZarkovski]

First look:

https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple124/v4/31/68/49/31684960-6696-8548-bff5-8dd77bf5d83c/source/360x480bb.jpghttps://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple123/v4/a7/53/0e/a7530e01-29f5-b3fa-703e-3ef180d6b9cb/source/360x480bb.jpghttps://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple114/v4/df/a7/20/dfa720c1-9a92-e07c-fe97-2230afd1da58/source/360x480bb.jpg

[Igglet]

Ayyy, Alopex and Angel. Glad to have those two back in the main story. Seems like they're finally starting to flesh out the former's personality, took them a while to settle on what they wanted her to be like I think but from the Raphael Macro and that issue of TMNT Universe to this, it seems like they've figured it out. Also, obligatory praising-Dialynas comment.

[CyberCubed]

We see too much of Angel/Alopex, IMO, they're in almost every other major arc.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

We see too much of Angel/Alopex, IMO, they're in almost every other major arc.

My man! Totally agree with you.

For my money, Angel was far more interesting before she became Nobody and started kicking around with Alopex... :tgrumble:

[Utrommaniac]

That is actually a good observation...they DO show up in every other story arch!

Which would make sense given the pattern of events. They seem to alternate between Foot/Gang arcs and Utrom/alien arcs pretty consistently.

Now with Bishop in the fray, that might be broken up somewhat, though probably he'll getting involved in both sets at some point.

[Cloudrunner]

My man! Totally agree with you.

For my money, Angel was far more interesting before she became Nobody and started kicking around with Alopex... :tgrumble:

I feel the same way about Alopex. She was far more interesting when she had history with the foot. I think she could have played an interesting part in Splinter's foot clan. Instead all potential plotlines with her are forgotten and she and Angel just show up randomly at the start of a new arc to kick things off and then disappear. I really think Alopex is the biggest wasted potential in the comic.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I feel the same way about Alopex. She was far more interesting when she had history with the foot. I think she could have played an interesting part in Splinter's foot clan. Instead all potential plotlines with her are forgotten and she and Angel just show up randomly at the start of a new arc to kick things off and then disappear. I really think Alopex is the biggest wasted potential in the comic.

Far more interesting as a villain or a (pardon the pun) lone wolf. But as soon as Sophie drew her cute, Alopex became nerfed.

[Cloudrunner]

Far more interesting as a villain or a (pardon the pun) lone wolf. But as soon as Sophie drew her cute, Alopex became nerfed.

Her being drawn cute isn't the issue. She's a fox, not a wolf. She should be more of a sleek assassin vs a hulking brute (which the Foot have more than enough of). In fact, I think the best she's ever looked was in her villain macro. The issue is more her personality and role in the story. After Northhampton, she never again had any major arcs with Shredder or the Foot, despite getting revenge on him being her apparent motivation. After freeing herself from Kitsune, she never went after the Pantheon, despite possibly getting spiritual powers that might help against them. Even when she got accidentally stuck in Toad Baron's lair, she just more or less went along for the ride.

Which brings me to my point. Every time she's paired with Angel, she loses her personality and relevance to the plot. Becoming just a sidekick with a fairly childish personality. I actually really liked her team up with Raph when infiltrating Null's facility, because she seemed to be the straight edge to his brashness. And she found a purpose in wanting to liberate other mutants from evil organizations. But now here we are, back with Angel. And she wants to try a sweet move she learned from Black Panther. Oops! There's nothing to the dynamic between those two that we don't already get from the turtles.

[oldmanwinters]

Make Alopex Gruff Again!
https://i.imgur.com/HuDpg5Dl.jpg (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2013/02/tmnt-secret-history-of-foot-clan-3.html)

[Cloudrunner]

Only if you lose the purple gloves and weird bandage one piece bikini, which is somehow more sexual (by calling attention to it) than just letting her run pantsless like a cartoon character. That being said, I vastly prefer bandages and cloak over hoodie. Almost wonder if the hoodie was just to make her easier to draw.

[Redeemer]

Make Alopex Gruff Again!
https://i.imgur.com/HuDpg5Dl.jpg (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2013/02/tmnt-secret-history-of-foot-clan-3.html)

Ah... Back when Alopex was a bad ass :ohwell:

[Utrommaniac]

Her being drawn cute isn't the issue. She's a fox, not a wolf. She should be more of a sleek assassin vs a hulking brute (which the Foot have more than enough of). In fact, I think the best she's ever looked was in her villain macro. The issue is more her personality and role in the story. After Northhampton, she never again had any major arcs with Shredder or the Foot, despite getting revenge on him being her apparent motivation. After freeing herself from Kitsune, she never went after the Pantheon, despite possibly getting spiritual powers that might help against them. Even when she got accidentally stuck in Toad Baron's lair, she just more or less went along for the ride.

Which brings me to my point. Every time she's paired with Angel, she loses her personality and relevance to the plot. Becoming just a sidekick with a fairly childish personality. I actually really liked her team up with Raph when infiltrating Null's facility, because she seemed to be the straight edge to his brashness. And she found a purpose in wanting to liberate other mutants from evil organizations. But now here we are, back with Angel. And she wants to try a sweet move she learned from Black Panther. Oops! There's nothing to the dynamic between those two that we don't already get from the turtles.

I'm going to go with this on Alopex issues.
(And yeah, she's not a wolf, she doesn't have much choice but to be tiny and cute)

It's not the fact that she changed sides that drains her, it's just being relegated to Angel's sidekick.

Though...that moment of her clinging to a back of a moving car and forcing it to steer off course is very much an Alopex thing. Need to ruin a vehicle? Get her to do it.

[Igglet]

I think saying that Alopex becoming less interesting is a consequence of her being relegated to Angel's sidekick is flat out wrong. I'd say it's the other way around. She was relegated to Angel's sidekick because she stopped being interesting, as the writers have absolutely no idea what to do with her.

Just think about what Alopex's role in the story has been since Northampton for a moment. Struggling? I know I am. She had that whole thing with Kitsune that ultimately amounted to nothing, seeing as the story would've been absolutely the same without it and it was all resolved within one issue. They made her Angel's partner so she can stay relevant to the story without them ACTUALLY having to do anything with her, and I think they chose the most lazy way to go about it. If she continued being closely tied to the Foot under Splinter, or if she joined the Mutanimals, or even if she lived with the Turtles and became a part of Clan Hamato - I personally think all of those would've been a lot more interesting than what we got.

The reason why I've been liking Alopex more recently isn't because her issues have suddenly disappeared, no, everything that I mentioned is still there, but she seems to at least be on the right track to having an actual personality, because I swear, before that issue of TMNT Universe with her and Raph, I couldn't name a single character trait of hers.

[Utrommaniac]

All things considered, Alopex joining the Mutanimals would make a hell of a lot more sense (plus they would have a "dog" in their midst to contrast Hob; maybe they'd bond over parallel traumas), but it seems to have been made clear that Alopex is basically against them. Which...probably would not have been the best path to take.

[ChosenOne]

All things considered, Alopex joining the Mutanimals would make a hell of a lot more sense (plus they would have a "dog" in their midst to contrast Hob; maybe they'd bond over parallel traumas), but it seems to have been made clear that Alopex is basically against them. Which...probably would not have been the best path to take.

Speaking of the path not taken, I bet Hob has kicked himself a bunch of times since for refusing membership to accepting Bebop and Rocksteady for such a petty reason. They sure would've come in handy against the EPF, and Slash might even still be alive if they'd joined up with the Mutanimals...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Speaking of the path not taken, I bet Hob has kicked himself a bunch of times since for refusing membership to accepting Bebop and Rocksteady for such a petty reason. They sure would've come in handy against the EPF, and Slash might even still be alive if they'd joined up with the Mutanimals...

Maybe someday Hob will try to recruit them again and they'll join up! :tlol:

[Utrommaniac]

His thing with them was that they were originally humans...and would they really have lasted long in the Mutanimals, anyway?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

His thing with them was that they were originally humans...and would they really have lasted long in the Mutanimals, anyway?

Of course not. :tlol:

[ChosenOne]

His thing with them was that they were originally humans...and would they really have lasted long in the Mutanimals, anyway?

So is Lindsey, whom Hob considers part of his new family. So is Angel, whom Hob considers an ally. As he said recently, he's not above working with humans to further his goals, not when there's such a lethal enemy as Bishop at the gates.

Of course not. :tlol:

If Karai can keep them (mostly) in line, so can Hob. With the upside that he'd provide them with all the violence and mayhem they could ever want, and then some. Setting those two loose on the EPF forces would be a sight to behold. I hope Karai does it during City at War!

[Igglet]

f Karai can keep them (mostly) in line, so can Hob. With the upside that he'd provide them with all the violence and mayhem they could ever want, and then some. Setting those two loose on the EPF forces would be a sight to behold. I hope Karai does it during City at War!

There's a big difference between the Mutanimals and the Shredder's Foot. The former is a family basically, while the latter are a clan of assassins and murderers. It's easier for Bebop and Rocksteady to fit in with the latter than the former.

[ChosenOne]

There's a big difference between the Mutanimals and the Shredder's Foot. The former is a family basically, while the latter are a clan of assassins and murderers. It's easier for Bebop and Rocksteady to fit in with the latter than the former.

Quite true, but who's to say providing those two with an outlet for their violent tendencies in the form of the Mutanimals' enemies wouldn't make them easier to handle in a domestic context? We've seen how much they crave belonging and acceptance, their need to fit in somewhere, and that they don't exactly mind if it comes in the form of someone who orders them around, given they're too dumb to make their own life choices.

[Igglet]

Quite true, but who's to say providing those two with an outlet for their violent tendencies in the form of the Mutanimals' enemies wouldn't make them easier to handle in a domestic context? We've seen how much they crave belonging and acceptance, their need to fit in somewhere, and that they don't exactly mind if it comes in the form of someone who orders them around, given they're too dumb to make their own life choices.

We saw how that worked for others who tried recruiting them, though. Remember the first Bebop and Rocksteady story? They accidentally slaughtered all of their employers' people (and, in some cases, the employers themselves) to the point where it wasn't worth even having them on board.

[ChosenOne]

We saw how that worked for others who tried recruiting them, though. Remember the first Bebop and Rocksteady story? They accidentally slaughtered all of their employers' people (and, in some cases, the employers themselves) to the point where it wasn't worth even having them on board.

Yes, and then Karai showed them who's boss. They fared well enough under Savanti Romero. Well, the second time around. And until they had to use their brains, at any rate... There's some promise there. I'm still convinced they can be successfully weaponized and kept in line.

We'll see what Karai does with them in City at War. Sort of a nuclear option, I'm guessing.

[bushido]

Full preview here (https://graphicpolicy.com/2019/03/19/preview-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-92/).

[Igglet]

I absolutely can't wait to see how this'll all fall apart.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I still resent Angel and Alopex for how much space they took up in "Vengeance." I dearly hope I won't end up feeling the same way about them in "City at War."

[ChosenOne]

I absolutely can't wait to see how this'll all fall apart.

IKR? I can honestly say that I'm just as excited for that moment as I am for the final season of Game of Thrones. The fact that it makes absolutely zero sense given what we've seen from both sides so far makes it all the more intriguing. I expect a major curveball thrown our way.

[TomWaltz]

I think saying that Alopex becoming less interesting is a consequence of her being relegated to Angel's sidekick is flat out wrong. I'd say it's the other way around. She was relegated to Angel's sidekick because she stopped being interesting, as the writers have absolutely no idea what to do with her.

Oh ye of little faith...

Keep reading.

Tom W.

[Igglet]

Oh ye of little faith...

Keep reading.

Tom W.

Well crap, the ONE TIME I say something bad about this run, Tom responds to me. Why can't I get one of these responses when I say that Michael Dialynas' art cured my asthma?

No, but for real, thanks for responding, sorry if I sounded mean in that original comment, your response actually got me really hyped for what you have in store.

[Cloudrunner]

Oh ye of little faith...

Keep reading.

Tom W.

Well I'll take your word for it, cause Alopex is my favorite new character from this run and I'd like to see her become relevant again. Though I still have this lingering suspicion you're gonna kill her off as some kind of catalyst to set off Raph. But I guess I'll wait and see.

[CyberCubed]

4 pages kinda just wasted on Angel/Alopex just taking out random criminals is kinda why I prefer we see less of them. They just eat too much page time away from the main story or whatever else is going on. If the issue opened with that page of Splinter and Karai bowing to each other you feel like you missed nothing.

[Igglet]

A bit spoilery, but Tom just Tweeted out something related to both #92 and #93:

https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1107718607771824129

Holy mother of God, I can't contain the hype.

[ChosenOne]

A bit spoilery, but Tom just Tweeted out something related to both #92 and #93:

https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1107718607771824129

Holy mother of God, I can't contain the hype.

That panel with Karai slashing at her attackers... :o Holy mother indeed!

Those guys aren't Foot, and they're not EPF either. Italian Mafia, at long last? YESSSS! :D Maybe Karai takes over their pad for her HQ?

Looks like someone rung the dinner bell and NYC is the main course!

[Raptor86]

A bit spoilery, but Tom just Tweeted out something related to both #92 and #93:

https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1107718607771824129

Holy mother of God, I can't contain the hype.

Finally, Bludgeon on full Berserker-mode again, yay!

[Michael Dialynas]

Glad i can help with that asthma! ;)

Well crap, the ONE TIME I say something bad about this run, Tom responds to me. Why can't I get one of these responses when I say that Michael Dialynas' art cured my asthma?

No, but for real, thanks for responding, sorry if I sounded mean in that original comment, your response actually got me really hyped for what you have in store.

[ChosenOne]

I can honestly say the preview for the FCBD issue messed with and ruined my expectations for this one. While it was great as usual, in the end it felt just a tiny bit underwhelming. Maybe I expected the straw that broke the camel's back to be more exciting, I don't know... At least this gives us a pretty good idea of where City at War is going, especially the Hob bit. And yes, that FCBD issue's place in the grand scheme of things is much clearer now.

I still wish I'd never read its preview, though.

[neatoman]

I sure hope those kids don't end up being forced recruits.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I can honestly say the preview for the FCBD issue messed with and ruined my expectations for this one. While it was great as usual, in the end it felt just a tiny bit underwhelming. Maybe I expected the straw the broke the camel's back to be more exciting, I don't know... At least this gives us a pretty good idea of where City at War is going, especially the Hob bit. And yes, that FCBD issue's place in the grand scheme of things is much clearer now.

I still wish I'd never read its preview, though.

Yeah, this is the big deal that topples the house of cards? Really?

I don't give a crap about the kids. :tlol:

[ChosenOne]

Yeah, this is the big deal that topples the house of cards? Really?

I don't give a crap about the kids. :tlol:

Hob polishing that sniper rifle while intently watching the mayoral debate on TV was priceless, though. Probably the Hobbiest thing he's ever done. Move over, leaning-out-the-window-with-the-lightning-gun scene! :D

[Igglet]

Glad i can help with that asthma! ;)

Hey, looks like I got what I wanted, thanks a lot for responding!

However, while you DID cure the asthma, you and the rest of the crew who worked on #93 almost gave me a heart attack because of how good it was. It's been hours since I read it and I still have the urge to jump up and down and scream about how good it was. Did I mention how good it was? Because, my God, it was good.

I don't think the negotiations could've been handled any better. I think them getting in a disagreement over one specific thing and then it all falling apart from there was to be expected, but the fact that it was the kids was brilliant. On one hand, while Karai is undoubtedly the antagonist here, her train of thought isn't illogical and, despite the prior issues painting her in an overly positive light, none of this is out of character. However, this isn't the main reason why I'm touching upon this specifically.

Splinter's character development has been so splendid and the writers including the kids was a brilliant way of showing that. In a few issues, he managed to develop so much, and it all started with the kids and how Mikey showed him that he was turning into what he despised so much and that he was losing his sons. The development was, in no way, out of the blue and I think the writers alluded to this during the issue as well - the progression of his character was in the spotlight for several issues and was handled amazingly. Back during the Invasion of Triceratons, if you were to tell me that Splinter would go back to being arguably the most likable person in the run again, I'd find it hard to believe, but God damn it, they did it. He's my favorite character in the run at the moment. The panel where he denied the Gauntlet was easily the best part of the issue, I'm so pleased with how that played out.

There were quite a few interesting moments in this issue outside of this as well, with Hob and Stockman as an example. What's April's endgame? What's Hob's endgame? I'd say there were two parts of this issue I'd say were sort of lacking, the first being Alopex and Angel, who really felt out of place in this issue, though I feel like, with everything we've learned, we can safely say that they'll play a large part in the storyline so it was logical to show what they're doing now (oh, me of little faith). The other are Metalhead and Bishop. Their part is really just stretching out so much. Since they've first met up, we haven't actually gotten anything solid or new, at least nothing major enough to be included in the issue. We didn't have to be told about how Metalhead wants upgrades straight away, we could've just learned that later as the story progressed. At this point, they might as well turn to the readers and go "Hey, we're doing something reaaaally spooky, we can't tell you anything about it, but like, don't forget about us! We're here too!" That's not to say the issue was impacted heavily by that, I still love it, but I feel like it was necessary to mention it.

Overall, amazing issue, absolutely cannot wait for City at War.

[ChosenOne]

One thing that bothers me about the negotiations upon rereading the issue:

How come Splinter never brought up the Foot Clan's (shaky) alliance with the EPF? Let's assume Karai didn't care about the kids and everything went swimmingly, and she's instated as the leader. Then Bishop comes knocking, asking for some favor, and finds a new face on the throne with five (from his point of view) mutants at her beck and call, including the two most dangerous ones in existence... A war was always coming, one way or another. Though it would've been out of character for Splinter, the idea of leaving Karai with a poisoned gift in the form of the EPF is intriguing.

And the thing I'd love the most, given the tragic irony of it all? Is if Splinter ends up having to go against his family to protect the kids he promised his family he would keep safe.

Oh crap, it's gonna be a long eight months.

[Igglet]

I feel like that probably WAS brought up, but it wasn't mentioned in the issue. We didn't see most of their negotiations. I imagine that the answer wasn't relevant enough to take up space in the issue, or it was TOO relevant and, as such, the writers didn't want to reveal it just yet as they couldn't give it enough spotlight between all of the things going on.

[shredder orokusaki]

One thing that bothers me about the negotiations upon rereading the issue:

How come Splinter never brought up the Foot Clan's (shaky) alliance with the EPF? Let's assume Karai didn't care about the kids and everything went swimmingly, and she's instated as the leader. Then Bishop comes knocking, asking for some favor, and finds a new face on the throne with five (from his point of view) mutants at her beck and call, including the two most dangerous ones in existence... A war was always coming, one way or another. Though it would've been out of character for Splinter, the idea of leaving Karai with a poisoned gift in the form of the EPF is intriguing.

And the thing I'd love the most, given the tragic irony of it all? Is if Splinter ends up having to go against his family to protect the kids he promised his family he would keep safe.

Oh crap, it's gonna be a long eight months.
Eight months? Splinter will be dead much sooner! Iam Returning soon to kill him and conquer New York. Then i will cut Stockman head and put his brain in a jar!

[CyberCubed]

The best thing about this arc is Splinter's whole character arc. His whole cold indifference to his sons and raising the Foot Clan has diminished and he's going back to his old self, but it happened gradually to the point where it's believeable and not a complete 180. Splinter is the voice of reason again and I liked that.

Overall though besides Karai going crazy, not much else seemed to change.. April is an ally, Casey is an ally, Jennika is an ally, Angel/Alopex are allies, Old Hob and the Mutanimals are allies (unless Old Hob does something stupid), Prof. Llija and his wife are allies, the Foot Clan and Purple Dragons are controlled by the good guys now, etc.

As far as we can tell Baxter doesn't seem to be up to anything bad in particular either, so he might very well be an ally too. So besides Bishop/Metalhead being the main antagonists now along with Karai, and the looming threat of the Pantheon, there's not much status quo that changed.

[Igglet]

The best thing about this arc is Splinter's whole character arc. His whole cold indifference to his sons and raising the Foot Clan has diminished and he's going back to his old self, but it happened gradually to the point where it's believeable and not a complete 180. Splinter is the voice of reason again and I liked that.

Overall though besides Karai going crazy, not much else seemed to change.. April is an ally, Casey is an ally, Jennika is an ally, Angel/Alopex are allies, Old Hob and the Mutanimals are allies (unless Old Hob does something stupid), Prof. Llija and his wife are allies, the Foot Clan and Purple Dragons are controlled by the good guys now, etc.

As far as we can tell Baxter doesn't seem to be up to anything bad in particular either, so he might very well be an ally too. So besides Bishop/Metalhead being the main antagonists now along with Karai, and the looming threat of the Pantheon, there's not much status quo that changed.

I agree entirely with the Splinter thing, as I already made clear with my prior comment. However, I don't agree about the status quo not changing up a lot. All of these major players have just been introduced. True, it seems like the Mutanimals and Stockman are allies, or at worst, inconveniences, but the point of a story is to subvert expectations. The fact that you can come to the conclusion that that's exactly how things're going to play out, with no major twists or turns, should be a dead giveaway that that's not how it'll play out. If everything just happened in the way everyone expects it, without any surprises, the story would NEVER move forward. Want proof? Look at this very issue.

The Mutanimals are on the verge of splitting in half and Hob has a major Ace up his sleeve. I will remind you all that the storyline that is meant to directly set this one up is Battle Lines. You know, the story that left the biggest impact on Hob. I genuinely can't imagine them starting the whole thing with him going nuts and then just having him be an ally. Same for Stockman. There's absolutely no way the story will play out so obviously.

The point of the prelude to City at War isn't for everything to break loose at once. The actual story hasn't even begun. The point was to set up all of the major players; Clan Hamato, Splinter's Foot and the Purple Dragons still working together, Karai's Foot declaring war, Metalhead joining up with the EPF, the Mutanimals being at the verge of falling apart and Stockman running for mayor. The status quo has changed, and it has changed majorly, but City at War is when we'll see the actual effects of this change.

[Utrommaniac]

Ah...yeah, that'll do it.

Everything's going to blow up pretty big at #100.


I'm gonna place my bet on Splinter dying then. Heaven KNOWS what's going to happen to Karai at this point, but the shadows of Bad Things are starting to climb.

[Igglet]

I'm gonna go one step further and guess the exact issue when Splinter is gonna die - it's gonna be #96. Mark your calendars. Screenshot this. Or maybe don't because I might be wrong so I'll just be the only one to screenshot it and then use it for bragging rights if I'm right, and if I'm not we shall never speak of it again.

[CyberCubed]

Hm, I also forgot Karai recruited Bebop/Rocksteady again at the end of their mini, I wonder when she'll "debut" them back in New York. She basically has 5 mutant like creatures with her, the woman, and maybe her own clan.

[ChosenOne]

If Free Comic Book Day is in May, and the FCBD issue is released then, the events it intersects with should take place in the issue released around the same time. So... #94? Which means Karai is going after Jennika first, or tries to take out Splinter but gets his chunin instead when she intervenes somehow.

We have the Turtles racing to get Jennika to the hospital and the issue is called "Casualty of War", so it's not looking too good for her right now.

[Igglet]

If Free Comic Book Day is in May, and the FCBD issue is released then, the events it intersects with should take place in the issue released around the same time. So... #94? Which means Karai is going after Jennika first, or tries to take out Splinter but gets his chunin instead when she intervenes somehow.

We have the Turtles racing to get Jennika to the hospital and the issue is called "Casualty of War", so it's not looking too good for her right now.

I purposefully didn't mention this because it's spoilery but it's a key element we need to keep in mind when discussing City at War. Though it seems like the status quo isn't changing up, we know for a fact that all Hell is about to break loose. This one death can, and absolutely will make the Foot Clan, the Purple Dragons and possibly even the Hamato Clan go absolutely nuclear.

[ChosenOne]

I purposefully didn't mention this because it's spoilery but it's a key element we need to keep in mind when discussing City at War. Though it seems like the status quo isn't changing up, we know for a fact that all Hell is about to break loose. This one death can, and absolutely will make the Foot Clan, the Purple Dragons and possibly even the Hamato Clan go absolutely nuclear.

My own personal problem with #92, and it's absolutely my fault that it even exists, is that I was expecting the issue to end with Jennika being rushed to the hospital for whatever reason while chased by Karai's posse. Like a fight breaking out or Bishop popping up or something. I guess things would've been more surprising, in a good way, if I hadn't read that preview. Oh, well... The arc hasn't even started per se yet, I'm sure there's plenty more thrills still to come.

[Igglet]

My own personal problem with #92, and it's absolutely my fault that it even exists, is that I was expecting the issue to end with Jennika being rushed to the hospital for whatever reason while chased by Karai's posse. Like a fight breaking out or Bishop popping up or something. I guess things would've been more surprising, in a good way, if I hadn't read that preview. Oh, well... The arc hasn't even started per se yet, I'm sure there's plenty more thrills still to come.

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

It was a great twist, I'll give Tom Waltz that! I just don't like it. The orphan kids were fine for Michelangelo's one-and-done Macro issue, but that was about as far as I wanted to see the Foot Clan Home for Lost Boys and Girls. :tlol:

[Utrommaniac]

I mean...it gives the kids a little more purpose than being background decoration?

[Igglet]

It was a great twist, I'll give Tom Waltz that! I just don't like it. The orphan kids were fine for Michelangelo's one-and-done Macro issue, but that was about as far as I wanted to see the Foot Clan Home for Lost Boys and Girls. :tlol:

Fair enough, but the kids themselves weren't the real focus here. Honestly, I don't really care if little Billy peed his pants during the Mikey vs. Splinter fight or not. You weren't supposed to go "Oh no, not the children!" Instead, the twist put emphasis on Splinter's character and his growth. He started conflict over wanting to protect them from Karai in the same way that Mikey started conflict over wanting to protect them from HIM. This was a HUGE step for Splinter, and while it wasn't necessarily the most bombastic thing they could've gone with, it was just an absolutely amazing way to utilize characters.

[ChosenOne]

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

Oh, no, it's totally my fault. If I didn't go around rooting through every single crumb of even remotely spoilery material I can find, this wouldn't have happened. But even without the preview, the sheer hype we experienced these past few weeks ensured the "big moment" in this issue fell just the tiiiniest bit flat. I really don't give a damn about the kids, to be honest, but ultimately it's all on me 'cause I can't expect to project that onto the characters.

[ChosenOne]

Fair enough, but the kids themselves weren't the real focus here. Honestly, I don't really care if little Billy peed his pants during the Mikey vs. Splinter fight or not. You weren't supposed to go "Oh no, not the children!" Instead, the twist put emphasis on Splinter's character and his growth. He started conflict over wanting to protect them from Karai in the same way that Mikey started conflict over wanting to protect them from HIM. This was a HUGE step for Splinter, and while it wasn't necessarily the most bombastic thing they could've gone with, it was just an absolutely amazing way to utilize characters.

Hmm... I hadn't considered that. Thank you for the perspective.

[Igglet]

Oh, no, it's totally my fault. If I didn't go around rooting through every single crumb of even remotely spoilery material I can find, this wouldn't have happened. But even without the preview, the sheer hype we experienced these past few weeks ensured the "big moment" in this issue fell just the tiiiniest bit flat. I really don't give a damn about the kids, to be honest, but ultimately it's all on me 'cause I can't expect to project that onto the characters.

Ah yeah, I get you on that first part, I'm subscribed to a Marvel Studios Spoilers subreddit and check it regularly despite the fact that I don't want to spoil Endgame for myself, I'm in the same situation here.

However, I disagree with the latter part. I'm repeating myself here, but I would say that anything else would fail to have even slightly as much emotional impact. They could have made it more dramatic, put someone we care about at stake, but that would feel more like something for shock, ultimately shallow if you look underneath the surface and only meant to push the plot forward, while this adds development to Splinter that completely changes the story going forward.

EDIT: WOOOOOOOPS, didn't realize you responded already. My bad, lol. And you're welcome, I'm very glad I managed to change someone's mind or offer a different perspective!

[Utrommaniac]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/5356b4672eb204cfca4acef03a904e16/tumblr_inline_pooy0xvWVO1rw8miz_540.gif

That's a really good point though. He actually learned from Michelangelo in that situation.

And actually shows Splinter's capacity to be different from all the other Bad Fathers in this series, in that he does have the ability to not only change his mind and take real advise from his sons, but act on that advise. He was able to put his own pride aside and listen to the concerns being addressed to him.


And yeah, sure, Hun put the booze away, but he still continued to be a horrible person afterwards.

Quanin's belligerence in refusing to put a stop to intergalactic war pretty much cost everything in the name of his own pride. Something Splinter would probably have subjected himself to (granted, in not as extreme a capacity), if he wasn't the type to take a few steps back and really think about the risks he was posing on himself and others - especially innocents like the orphans.


Of course Splinter has made mistakes. What makes him different is that he can examine his mistakes and realize he's made them before it's too late.

[ChosenOne]

Whatever happens to Jennika could make Splinter stray from that path and slide back into extremism, though. This issue's letters section seemed particularly ominous in that regard.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Fair enough, but the kids themselves weren't the real focus here. Honestly, I don't really care if little Billy peed his pants during the Mikey vs. Splinter fight or not. You weren't supposed to go "Oh no, not the children!" Instead, the twist put emphasis on Splinter's character and his growth. He started conflict over wanting to protect them from Karai in the same way that Mikey started conflict over wanting to protect them from HIM. This was a HUGE step for Splinter, and while it wasn't necessarily the most bombastic thing they could've gone with, it was just an absolutely amazing way to utilize characters.

Really good point, man. I just really hate that Splinter is choosing these human kids over protecting his own kids. He KNOWS this will mean war.

Me, personally? I'll sacrifice a handful of kids I DON'T know to protect the kids that are MINE.

I guess I hadn't even thought about it in terms of Splinter's character growth, because I'm reacting to it as a fellow father watching Splinter screw up and shaking my head, saying "Ya done fvcked up, Yoshi, and your kids are gonna pay the price."

[martinitolove]

Don't forget we have Leatherhead and Hun on the loose. As well as Null and her scorpion and snake mutants. I suppose that they'll drop in at some points of the storyline.

And I'm sure that now Karai will ally herself with Kitsune, Manmoth with the TMNT (remember his fight against EPF), Foot with Baxter.

I suppose that the next step for Karai will be - before the fightings starts - to offer the Foot members to switch to her "legitimate" side. This will result in most members switching, Jennika beeing killed, and Splinter reverting to Hamato clan's master. The Foot clan, that will ally itself with Baxter will be Karai's.

And we'll see some interaction between Kitsune and her creation Ocho. Then at 100 Shredder returns as a temporarily good guy and unite EVERYONE against the Dragon.

[daggio]

Hm, I also forgot Karai recruited Bebop/Rocksteady again at the end of their mini, I wonder when she'll "debut" them back in New York. She basically has 5 mutant like creatures with her, the woman, and maybe her own clan.

The way Karai was at the end of that mini (wanting to take over New York) compared to how she was prior to this issue (wanting to do a peaceful negotiation) makes me believe that the whole epilogue to B&R Hit the Road was meant to take place during City at War. Hopefully, things will become a bit clearer on that front as the story progresses.

[DrReagan]

Today I feel kind of ashamed to be a Karai fan.

Splinter was happily giving her control of the foot clan, and all she had to do was promise not to turn a bunch of kids into child soldiers, and that she wouldn't KILL them, and she couldn't do that.

We're really seeing that she is A LOT more like her Grandfather then we've been shown thus far and it's very disheartening...

[ChosenOne]

The way Karai was at the end of that mini (wanting to take over New York) compared to how she was prior to this issue (wanting to do a peaceful negotiation) makes me believe that the whole epilogue to B&R Hit the Road was meant to take place during City at War. Hopefully, things will become a bit clearer on that front as the story progresses.

I've started to think so too. She had no reason to recruit them before all of this, knowing how unstable they are as assets. It's a deliberate wartime measure.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Wait, it keeps getting mentioned that Karai re-recruited Bebop and Rocksteady. When did that happen? I checked Hit the Road #5 and I didn't see it there, and that was Bebop and Rocksteady's last appearance.

[AlZarkovski]

Wait, it keeps getting mentioned that Karai re-recruited Bebop and Rocksteady. When did that happen? I checked Hit the Road #5 and I didn't see it there, and that was Bebop and Rocksteady's last appearance.
Last page in Hit the Road #5 (epiloge)

[CyberCubed]

Don't forget we have Leatherhead and Hun on the loose. As well as Null and her scorpion and snake mutants. I suppose that they'll drop in at some points of the storyline.

Well Leatherhead is pretty much just by himself, he wants revenge on Utroms, so he really doesn't have much of a place in this story even if he appears. I'm sure Null won't appear at all till post issue 100.

As for Hun I'd like to see him team up with Casey again unless he gets killed off, which may very well happen.

[Igglet]

Really good point, man. I just really hate that Splinter is choosing these human kids over protecting his own kids. He KNOWS this will mean war.

Me, personally? I'll sacrifice a handful of kids I DON'T know to protect the kids that are MINE.

I guess I hadn't even thought about it in terms of Splinter's character growth, because I'm reacting to it as a fellow father watching Splinter screw up and shaking my head, saying "Ya done fvcked up, Yoshi, and your kids are gonna pay the price."

That's fair enough, but, again, I feel like it's showcasing Splinter's development, because just issues ago, he WAS acting the same. Remember the Invasion of Triceratons? Splinter was fully willing to let the Triceratons die because he didn't want his own sons in the battlefield. Yet again, we have an example of his character growth, because the Turtles showed him they're not children anymore. He's learned from them.

[daggio]

As well as Null and her scorpion and snake mutants. I suppose that they'll drop in at some points of the storyline.

You know, I was thinking about Null and her mutants after what you wrote, martinintolove, and remembered that last we saw Zodi (in the short "Nobody Cares") she seemingly got placed into EPF custody thanks to Angel. Maybe whenever Bishop starts in on the fight, Zodi will be an EPF operative.

[Igglet]

Also, can I just say that Jennika was a badass? She appeared for, like, one panel, but she was an absolute madlass in it.

[daggio]

I've started to think so too. She had no reason to recruit them before all of this, knowing how unstable they are as assets. It's a deliberate wartime measure.

The way that mini ended, to me, at first didn't seem to make sense. Bebop and Rocksteady were unconscious and at the mercy of the remaining EPF soldiers on the bridge. Then, they're coming to in the middle of a street in New York with no EPF in sight. When I read that, to me it left me with many questions. Now things, at least to me, are becoming a little bit clearer. Maybe Bebop and Rocksteady (and Anchovy) were taken into EPF custody and then released to be used as some sort of Trojan Horse.

[ChosenOne]

You know, I was thinking about Null and her mutants after what you wrote, martinintolove, and remembered that last we saw Zodi (in the short "Nobody Cares") she seemingly got placed into EPF custody thanks to Angel. Maybe whenever Bishop starts in on the fight, Zodi will be an EPF operative.

Where was this? I'm drawing a blank.

[martinitolove]

You know, I was thinking about Null and her mutants after what you wrote, martinintolove, and remembered that last we saw Zodi (in the short "Nobody Cares") she seemingly got placed into EPF custody thanks to Angel. Maybe whenever Bishop starts in on the fight, Zodi will be an EPF operative.

I have a feeling that the less we await Null and her mutants beeing a part of City at War, the surer they will be there. Null needs to become a treat and here is a venue for that.

[daggio]

Where was this? I'm drawing a blank.

Back-up short to TMNT Universe #23

[ChosenOne]

Back-up short to TMNT Universe #23

Oh... Thanks! I guess I did too good a job trying to forget all about that issue.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Last page in Hit the Road #5 (epiloge)

I can't believe that there was a page I missed this whole time. There were so many ads in between it and the other last page that I never flipped all the way to the end. Don't I feel silly now. Thanks by the way!

[oldmanwinters]

I can't believe that there was a page I missed this whole time. There were so many ads in between it and the other last page that I never flipped all the way to the end. Don't I feel silly now. Thanks by the way!

Almost happened to me as well!

[ChosenOne]

I can't believe that there was a page I missed this whole time. There were so many ads in between it and the other last page that I never flipped all the way to the end. Don't I feel silly now. Thanks by the way!

Look on the bright side, this way you at least read it in (the most likely) chronological order.

[CyberCubed]

I have a feeling that the less we await Null and her mutants beeing a part of City at War, the surer they will be there. Null needs to become a treat and here is a venue for that.

Null has never appeared in the main series to date, I wouldn't be surprised if she is postponed to post issue 100 just like with Ch'rell. Might as well save two villains for later as they wrap up all the current plotlines.

Seems Karai, Bishop/Metalhead and the Pantheon/return of Shredder are the big priorities now.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Null has never appeared in the main series to date, I wouldn't be surprised if she is postponed to post issue 100 just like with Ch'rell. Might as well save two villains for later as they wrap up all the current plotlines.

Seems Karai, Bishop/Metalhead and the Pantheon/return of Shredder are the big priorities now.

Bishop ain't getting wrapped up by Issue #100. He's around for a while yet, count on it.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing his weird tiny baby self get skewered by Karai in his story arc. I just don't think it'll happen.

[daggio]

Bishop ain't getting wrapped up by Issue #100. He's around for a while yet, count on it.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing his weird tiny baby self get skewered by Karai in his story arc. I just don't think it'll happen.

I agree, Bishop I think is here to stay for awhile. Between this whole new thing with Metalhead and Area 51, Leatherhead eventually siding with him, maybe a EPF/Null Group fight on the horizon, and Baxter's run for mayor, I think there are a lot stories for Bishop to be a part of.

[Igglet]

I'm pretty sure Leatherhead is going to play a role in City at War, and I'd say that Bishop will be in the same position Krang was post-Attack on the Technodrome by the time this story arc ends.

The thing is, we got an issue about Leatherhead in #85. Do you really think they would give us an issue dedicated ENTIRELY to him, RIGHT before the two main events of the entire run for the past few years, and then not do anything with him for over 15 months? And not only that, he got a cameo in #90, and though it was very brief, it was VERY important. They wouldn't do these things if they weren't planning on using the character for such a long time.

As for Bishop, his role is currently so deeply intertwined with Old Hob's story arc that there is absolutely no way we can get payoff for it without something incredibly major happening to Bishop. And, believe me, with the way things are turning out, there's not a chance that we won't get the payoff in City at War. That'd be like if, after Donnie's 'death' in the Attack on the Technodrome, Vengeance just let the Foot Clan be side villains. Old Hob's putting Bishop out of commission, either temporarily like with Krang or permanently.

[daggio]

As a fan of pro wrestling back in the 90s and early 2000s, I'm interested to see who are gonna be on the opposing side of a grudge, like what you would see in a big 8-man tag team match, since I'm assuming that when the big fights start, we'll see certain individuals fight certain individuals. Since it seems like Splinter and the Turtles will be opposing Karai and her team as the big fight in City at War (with the Mutanimals and EPF involved also), I look at that first. I'm assuming Splinter vs. Karai, Leo vs. Koya (they have that interesting dynamic), Raph vs. Ocho (obviously), probably Don vs. Bludgeon, and I guess that leaves Mike vs. Natsu. And with Bebop, Rocksteady, and Anchovy appearing eventually, maybe that'll be Angel and Alopex vs. Bebop and Rocksteady, with maybe Pepperoni finally getting mutated to take on Anchovy continuing there feud from "B&R Destroy Everything":lol::lol:. I don't know where that would leave Casey and Jennika (if she survives). Maybe Casey and/or Jennika vs. Toshiro. I'm not gonna even attempt to figure out the opposing sides on the Mutanimals/EPF fight.

I realize that the solicitations for the next few months don't imply this kinda stuff happening, but we got till near the end of the year for this arc to be complete, so who knows.

[ChosenOne]

(...) Angel and Alopex vs. Bebop and Rocksteady (...)

Ouch. That's not a fight, that's a massacre. :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

If Leatherhead's going to get involved, he's the only one who could fight them fairly, even if by himself.

[ChosenOne]

If Leatherhead's going to get involved, he's the only one who could fight them fairly, even if by himself.

Metalhead too. I'm sure he'd love the opportunity. It's almost too good of a match-up to not come to pass...

[Utrommaniac]

Two "heads" are better than one :P

[ChosenOne]

Either one of them is enough to give B&R real trouble, IMHO. Team them up and it's a done deal.

[daggio]

Ouch. That's not a fight, that's a massacre. :lol:

Hey, let's give Angel and Alopex some credit :lol:. Besides I went that route cuz of those pro wrestling 90s/2000s 6 man tag matches between factions. You got Team Nobody with Pepperoni (since back in the TMNT Universe issue with Toad Baron where Angel and Alopex talked about how much they got along with Pepperoni) fighting Team....Bebop/Rocksteady with Anchovy so the 2 dinosaurs could continue their pre-mutation feud :lol:. But maybe the others are right, Leatherhead and Metalhead might be better for the job.

[ChosenOne]

Metalhead in particular has a bone to pick with those two... To borrow a popular meme these days, he can feel his rematch coming! :D