40 killed and 20 injured in Mosque shootings in New Zealand

[Prowler]

Crazy. This is probably the biggest tragedy that has happened in NZ.

Forty people have been killed and more than 20 seriously wounded in shootings at two mosques in Christchurch.

New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern described the incidents as a terrorist attack, and one of the country's "darkest days".

Three men and one woman are in custody, police commissioner Mike Bush said, but warned more suspects may be at large.

Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison said one of those arrested was an Australian citizen.

He described the suspected attacker as an "extremist right-wing violent terrorist".

What do we know at this point?
Witnesses told local media they ran for their lives and saw people bleeding on the ground outside the Al Noor mosque.

A second mosque in the suburb of Linwood has been evacuated, and Police Commissioner Mike Bush said "multiple fatalities" were recorded at two locations. As yet, far fewer details have emerged from the second site.

They said they had responded to "a number of IEDs (explosive devices) attached to vehicles, that we also stopped".

Authorities have advised all mosques in the city to shut down until further notice, saying this was an unprecedented act of violence.

Armed police have also been seen at Papanui High School in Christchurch, which has been cordoned off.

It is not yet known how many shooters there were, but one gunman is an Australian who is believed to have written a manifesto outlining his intentions. In it, he espouses far right and anti-immigrant ideology.

Footage taken by one shooter has emerged, which he appears to have live-streamed as he shot victims in a mosque. Police called on the public not to share the "extremely distressing" material online.

Facebook said it had removed the shooter's Facebook and Instagram accounts as well as any support voiced for that crime.

What happened at the mosques?
The sequence of events remains unclear and has mostly come via eyewitness reports to local media.

The first report of an attack came from the Al Noor mosque, located in central Christchurch along Deans Avenue, facing Hagley Park. Witnesses there reported seeing people bleeding on the ground outside the building.

One unnamed survivor told TV New Zealand he saw a gunman shoot a man directly in the chest.

The attacker reportedly targeted the men's prayer room in the mosque, then moved to the women's room.

"What I did was basically just waiting and praying, God please, let this guy run out of bullets," the witness said.

"He came to this side, he shot this side, he went to another room and went to the ladies' section and shot them. I just heard one of the ladies has died."

A Palestinian man, who did not wish to be named, told AFP news agency he saw a man shot in the head, and heard rapid gunfire.

"I heard three quick shots, then after about 10 seconds it started again - it must have been an automatic, no one could pull a trigger that quick.

"Then people started running out. Some were covered in blood."

A second mosque in the suburb of Linwood has also been evacuated, and the police commissioner said "multiple fatalities" were recorded at two locations. There are far fewer details emerging from there, however.

How are the authorities responding?
Multiple casualties have been brought to Christchurch Hospital, where there is a heavy police presence.

A spokeswoman said Canterbury District Health Board (CDHB) has activated its mass casualty plan, according to New Zealand news site Stuff.co.nz.

Police earlier cleared Cathedral Square, where thousands of children had been holding a rally for action on climate change.

Police Commissioner Mike Bush said: "Police are responding with its full capability to manage the situation, but the risk environment remains extremely high.

"Police recommend that residents across Christchurch remain off the streets and indoors until further notice."

A lockdown on all schools in Christchurch has now been lifted, and parents are being told they can collect their children.

Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison tweeted: "I'm horrified by the reports I'm following of the serious shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand. The situation is still unfolding but our thoughts and prayers are with our Kiwi cousins."

Who has been caught up in the attack?
As well as the numerous witness reports of casualties, the Bangladesh national cricket team appear to have narrowly escaped the shooting.

A reporter following the team, who were due to play New Zealand in a now-cancelled test match on Saturday, tweeted that the team had "escaped from a mosque near Hagley Park where there were active shooters".

Player Tamim Iqbal tweeted that the "entire team got saved from active shooters".

Bangladesh Cricket Board spokesman Jalal Yunus said most of the team had gone to mosque by bus and were about to go inside when the incident took place.

"They are safe. But they are mentally shocked. We have asked the team to stay confined in the hotel," he told the AFP news agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47578798

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The people of New Zealand have been working hard to support each other after these terrible tragedies.

I probably won't be attending my local Mosque prayers next Friday, which I was looking forward to.

Most of my fellow kiwis want the scum behind these attacks to be put to death, but that won't happen in most likeliness, unfortunately.

[The Deadman]

Annnnd the media on Twitter is quick to place the blame on Pewdiepie because the shooter said "subscribe to Pewds" in his video before the shooting started.

[Prowler]

The death toll is now at 49.

How did the killers get assault rifles and manage to bring them illegally into an island nation like NZ? Really strange.

[Andrew NDB]

It's almost like criminals won't follow the law...

I saw the footage. Yikes!

[Prowler]

It's almost like criminals won't follow the law...

I saw the footage. Yikes!

I know, but how did they bypass airport security and all that stuff? Also, I know jack about guns, but clearly he had experience with guns. Otherwise he'd not have been so successful with an assault rifle. Maybe he had previous military experience?

Yes, it's all over twitter. I watched like 10 seconds of it and it was enough.

One of my country's channels has aired the footage of the attack on tv several times since 10AM, which led to A LOT of people calling in to the HQs of the network complaining about it. I mean, who the hell wants to see THAT while having breakfast or lunch? A bit too early to air such graphic content on TV, no? That being said, that channel is notorious for sensationalism and lack of morals just to achieve ratings and shock value.

[snake]

Holy f*ck, he started the livestream with a "subscribe to pewdiepie" and blasted memes through his car. It's like a weird fever dream. But- oh well, aren't terror attacks just "part and parcel" of living in a big city? (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801018/Terror-attacks-parcel-living-big-city-claims-London-mayor-Sadiq-Khan.html)

[Prowler]

Holy f*ck, he started the livestream with a "subscribe to pewdiepie" and blasted memes through his car. It's like a weird fever dream. But- oh well, aren't terror attacks just "part and parcel" of living in a big city?

Dude also wrote a 70 page manifesto or something.

[snake]

Yeah, I saw parts of it and they literally read like an average 4chan sh*tpost.

One thing I'll never understand with shooters is how retarded they are in application of their motivation. This guy wanted stop European immigration, so he kills innocent people instead of politicians? Maybe I just want to see a real shakeup, but needless acts of violence towards innocents do nothing for any cause. It's weird, I don't even feel one way or another about this incident after watching the video. It's so brutal and visceral to see it in reality it kind of numbs you. I closed it, said to myself "what an asshole" and just kind of accepted it.

[Prowler]

Yeah, I saw parts of it and they literally read like an average 4chan sh*tpost.

One thing I'll never understand with shooters is how retarded they are in application of their motivation. This guy wanted stop European immigration, so he kills innocent people instead of politicians? Maybe I just want to see a real shakeup, but needless acts of violence towards innocents do nothing for any cause. Dude should be executed publicly.

I haven't read it. **** reading 70 pages. Apparently there's a quote that goes like this in his manifesto though:

"More recently I have been working part time as a kebab removalist"

WTF does this even mean?!

[snake]

It's a reference to the "Remove Kebab" (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/serbia-strong-remove-kebab) meme.

[Prowler]

Oh now I remember those Yugoslav war songs videos. Those were popular in like 2010 or so?

[IndigoErth]

Assuming he probably generalizes Muslims as terrorists, it never ceases to amaze me that it is lost on these wackjobs like him that THEY are in fact the terrorists.


Hell, if all Muslims are big bad scary people and want to destroy us all, then surely your ass should have been toast and shouldn't have even made it out of the first to go attack another place, right?

So... so sick that he streamed it live.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The toll of casualties has been updated to 49 dead, and more than 40 injured.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111313238/shooting-at-christchurch-mosque

[AquaParade]

Tragic. I can only hope that those that lost their lives lived to their fullest and left a positive impact on those they met. Immeasurable tragedy.

[Papenbrook]

Just ... Simply tragic. :(

My thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones. May their community heal from this.

[The Deadman]

It's almost like criminals won't follow the law...

I saw the footage. Yikes!

Pretty sure I saw people on Twitter saying New Zealand has some of the strictest gun laws in the world, as well.

[Andrew NDB]

And completely separate and probably prickish of me to ask... but sheesh, I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right? You're at a mosque praying, practicing all due diligence in your religion... and some guy just walks in and blows everyone away -- either that higher power has it out for you, or he's asleep at the wheel or doesn't exist... none of these things being good. I could pose the same thing for the church shooting here in the states a while back.

Right?

[Leo656]

And completely separate and probably prickish of me to ask... but sheesh, I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right? You're at a mosque praying, practicing all due diligence in your religion... and some guy just walks in and blows everyone away -- either that higher power has it out for you, or he's asleep at the wheel or doesn't exist... none of these things being good. I could pose the same thing for the church shooting here in the states a while back.

Right?

That is a fairly rational way to think and feel, yes.

"What an asshole" indeed.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right?

No, it doesn't make me rethink it.

[Redeemer]

And completely separate and probably prickish of me to ask... but sheesh, I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right? You're at a mosque praying, practicing all due diligence in your religion... and some guy just walks in and blows everyone away -- either that higher power has it out for you, or he's asleep at the wheel or doesn't exist... none of these things being good. I could pose the same thing for the church shooting here in the states a while back.

Right?

I don't think you understand the meaning faith :lol:

I do understand the rational behind your thinking.

No, it doesn't make me rethink it.

Good to hear, Good for you!

[Leo656]

Speaking from a strictly agnostic and logic-based point of view, and without trying to offend anyone's beliefs, this is one of those cases where the line between "faith" and "delusion" seems incredibly thin from Way Over Here.

Frankly, the only thing I've ever seen/read that made any sense of God and religion was "Preacher". To wit, "God is real, he's just not actually a Good Guy and is rather pretty much just a big jerk who likes to screw with people." Because that's the only thing I could ever even BEGIN to wrap my head around. And things like this are a big, huge reason why.

Whatever helps people sleep at night, I guess. I don't pretend to get it.

[Redeemer]

Speaking from a strictly agnostic and logic-based point of view, and without trying to offend anyone's beliefs, this is one of those cases where the line between "faith" and "delusion" seems incredibly thin from Way Over Here.

Frankly, the only thing I've ever seen/read that made any sense of God and religion was "Preacher". To wit, "God is real, he's just not actually a Good Guy and is rather pretty much just a big jerk who likes to screw with people." Because that's the only thing I could ever even BEGIN to wrap my head around. And things like this are a big, huge reason why.

Whatever helps people sleep at night, I guess. I don't pretend to get it.

The way I look at it is free will. We were all born with it and what we choose to do with it has consequences not only for ourselves, but others as well. I understand why people are skeptic when people see incidence like this. The problem is people want to blame God or make him responsible and their only conclusion is that there must not be a God, but in actuality they just don't want to believe how dark and sadistic the human race can be. Basically I believe when someone follows this logic they just don't want to make humans accountable.

Thats all I really want to dive in from a religion aspect given the sensitivity of the subject and the fact that we cannot even have a civilized conversation about politics on this forum without it getting out of control.

[Leo656]

So in other words, "collateral damage" is acceptable so long as someone learns a lesson. Innocent people going about their daily lives are merely a sacrifice to the greater good, because we have to be reminded that some people suck and it's important to not be like them.

I guess that's an answer, but I don't like it and it doesn't make me feel any better.

[Andrew NDB]

The way I look at it is free will. We were all born with it and what we choose to do with it has consequences not only for ourselves, but others as well. I understand why people are skeptic when people see incidence like this. The problem is people want to blame God or make him responsible and their only conclusion is that there must not be a God, but in actuality they just don't want to believe how dark and sadistic the human race can be. Basically I believe when someone follows this logic they just don't want to make humans accountable.

But if God is truly omnipotent and omniscient... able to stop such a thing from happening, him actively not doing so... is that not malevolent in itself?

Like, if you're standing on a river and watch someone drown 10 feet away from you. You go to prison because of the Samaritan Law. Same thing.

[Leo656]

This is why I've always viewed God as more of a "Sociopath With An Ant Farm" rather than "Benevolent Creator".

The former makes perfect sense; the latter, not so much, based on evidence alone.

[Andrew NDB]

This is why I've always viewed God as more of a "Sociopath With An Ant Farm" rather than "Benevolent Creator".

The former makes perfect sense; the latter, not so much, based on evidence alone.

Have you seen the Blomkamp God shorts? There's only two of them. You'll love them. Probably... precisely what you're talking about.

Q1_HfhtB5eo

w4AGocVq7-w

[Redeemer]

So in other words, "collateral damage" is acceptable so long as someone learns a lesson. Innocent people going about their daily lives are merely a sacrifice to the greater good, because we have to be reminded that some people suck and it's important to not be like them.

I guess that's an answer, but I don't like it and it doesn't make me feel any better.

What???? I don't understand your point/ comment. I don't think I said that?????

But if God is truly omnipotent and omniscient... able to stop such a thing from happening, him actively not doing so... is that not malevolent in itself?

Like, if you're standing on a river and watch someone drown 10 feet away from you. You go to prison because of the Samaritan Law. Same thing.

No you wouldn't :lol: you would not go to jail :lol: I promise you wouldn't go to jail :lol: also every state does not have those laws or every country. :lol:



So Andrew the point I was trying to make was the idea of "free will". Essentially if God intervened in everything then we really would not have free will, we wouldn't free to make our own choices or actions. Everything would be pre-ordained and we would essentially be robots. Honestly this subject is incredibly tricky and is an extremely gray area. We live in a world with universal laws/physics and free will. Do I think God can intervene from time to time? Yes. Why didn't he this time? I don't know :cry:

As I said before this is simply what I believe and I do understand why people may not be able to or want to believe in a high power when events like this happen, but I feel like they are simply misplacing their emotions on the higher power and not on the individuals responsible.

[Leo656]

What???? I don't understand your point/ comment. I don't think I said that?????

Not directly, no. But you did say that in the Big Picture, there's a lesson to be learned about Accountability. And that's fine. There's a lesson to be learned in everything. But it does absolutely nothing to change the fact that a bunch of people died and got hurt for no reason at all.

Thus, your statement to some degree implies that those people are "acceptable collateral damage" in service to the greater lesson, although it isn't stated directly. I know that's not what you were trying to say, but it can be taken that way.

"Just have faith it was for a good reason" isn't good enough for most people. Those people literally died while in a place of worship, begging for their God to protect them and "deliver them from evil". He answered, "No."

If the gun was pointed at you or I, I'm not convinced either one of us would feel very safe or protected, no matter what we'd believed up until that precise moment in time. I truly wonder how many of those people died feeling not only confused, but utterly betrayed.

I'd definitely die feeling I was owed an explanation, if nothing else. I don't know; the whole thing seems pretty sh*tty to me.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So in other words, "collateral damage" is acceptable so long as someone learns a lesson. Innocent people going about their daily lives are merely a sacrifice to the greater good, because we have to be reminded that some people suck and it's important to not be like them.

I guess that's an answer, but I don't like it and it doesn't make me feel any better.

Yes, that is exactly what I believe.

That collateral damage is a part of life.

But not all collateral damage has a lesson behind it for people.

Natural Disasters, Diseases and Predation by animals are not morally accountable, for example.

Take of that what you will.

[Leo656]

This once more kind of further reinforces my belief that, were God a person, we'd have very little to talk about and probably wouldn't be friends.

I've given him a try but we seem to have very little in common. Maybe it's for the best that we don't hang out.

I have a bad habit of calling people out for sh*t and he doesn't seem to take that too well.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

This once more kind of further reinforces my belief that, were God a person, we'd have very little to talk about and probably wouldn't be friends.

I've given him a try but we seem to have very little in common. Maybe it's for the best that we don't hang out.

I have a bad habit of calling people out for sh*t and he doesn't seem to take that too well.

Do you reckon Satan would be a cool guy to hang out with if he was a person? :lol:

[Leo656]

Maybe, maybe not, but unlike God, I doubt he'd answer most or all of my questions with another question. So at least the small talk would be a little less one-sided.

[Andrew NDB]

It's like... we can agree that God is a malevolent God. Or that he is a disinterested God. Or even a cosmic Sim Earth player kind of thing. But it can't be, "He's a compassionate God, and this is what he allowed to happen at his own worship area because reasons." Or we can agree that he doesn't exist. Or we can agree that he is more like a non-sentient energy force that just... does.

Or we can agree to disagree.

[Leo656]

I think we can also agree that whatever else he may be, he's almost definitely a Hulkamaniac.

[Sumac]

And completely separate and probably prickish of me to ask... but sheesh, I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right? You're at a mosque praying, practicing all due diligence in your religion... and some guy just walks in and blows everyone away -- either that higher power has it out for you, or he's asleep at the wheel or doesn't exist... none of these things being good. I could pose the same thing for the church shooting here in the states a while back.

Right?
Religious people consider everything that happens in their lives as a "test". The thing why they don't become less religious is that they believe in the "afterlife" where they will be rewarded for they suffering and will together with their loved ones. In their eyes it is "worth it".

Remember, religions run on two things: they alleviate fear of death and give your life explanation and meaning, no matter how crazy they are.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The death toll is now at 49.

How did the killers get assault rifles and manage to bring them illegally into an island nation like NZ? Really strange.

Boats maybe?

[Voltron]

And completely separate and probably prickish of me to ask... but sheesh, I mean, this has got to make you rethink your religion, right? You're at a mosque praying, practicing all due diligence in your religion... and some guy just walks in and blows everyone away -- either that higher power has it out for you, or he's asleep at the wheel or doesn't exist... none of these things being good. I could pose the same thing for the church shooting here in the states a while back.

Right?

No, you vile piece of sh*t. And shame on you for looking at it in that way.

Hey! How about this: does it make you rethink your political leanings since a right winger decided, yet again, to go on a killing spree? No?

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but more and more you're starting to worry me.

Is it prickish of me to say that any Trump supporter is a bigoted fascist?

And with that, let me say this: From here on out, there will be a zero tolerance policy on anything that can even be construed as racism. Take your bullsh*t elsewhere. We don't stand for it here.