Should the voting age be reduced to 16 in the US?

[Andrew NDB]

It's already starting to happen. In Oregon it's already on the ballot:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/oregon-voting-age-16-trnd/index.html

Pelosi is all for it:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/03/14/pelosi_supports_lowering_voting_age_to_16_importan t_to_capture_kids_when_theyre_in_high_school.html

So a 16 year-old, they are responsible and their voice is important, but a 20 year-old can't be trusted to be responsible enough to own a gun? Yeesh.

[snake]

Yeah, no. 16 year olds are just a step above small children in terms of brain power.

[Candy Kappa]

In Norway there has been discussions about lowering our voting age from 18 to 16, but it didn't happen. I think they got to a point where we almost had a trial period but it didn't fell through.

I don't really see a problem with it, although in Norway I think it got shot down because, while 16 year olds have completed mandaroty School, can start pay taxes and can be jailed for crimes and probably are mature enough to vote. Voting should be tied to Age of Majority which is 18 in Norway, and 16 is too young to be the New Age of Majority. So I can see that argument.

While 18 year olds are more developed then 16 year olds mentally, it's still not fully developed. So maybe not? Depends on Age of Majority I guess

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Only if the draft age is lowered to 16.

HOW DO YA LIKE THEM APPLES, YA DAMN KIDS!?

[oldmanwinters]

Only if the draft age is lowered to 16.


That was the primary justification for lowering it to 18 in the 26th amendment, so might as well be consistent.

Contemporary American Liberal Democrats covet ambulatory voters, whom they perceive as more likely to vote Liberal Democrat, and because winning elections is their primary goal, they will never tire of changing the rules to give them their best chance of winning. Conservatives and Republicans have done similar things throughout history, of course, but the 16-year-old voter push is almost entirely a liberal strategy to get more votes.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That was the primary justification for lowering it to 18 in the 26th amendment, so might as well be consistent.

Contemporary American Liberal Democrats covet ambulatory voters, whom they perceive as more likely to vote Liberal Democrat, and because winning elections is their primary goal, they will never tire of changing the rules to give them their best chance of winning. Conservatives and Republicans have done similar things throughout history, of course, but the 16-year-old voter push is almost entirely a liberal strategy to get more votes.

Exactly.

I don't mind the Democrats wanting to enable more voters. But they need to be responsible adults, not children who've never paid a damn bill in their lives.

[Andrew NDB]

Also 16 year olds:

FZurGu12ojg

[Prowler]

I don't think my opinion really matters, but USA has some odd age requirements. It allows people to drive at 16, but you can only buy alcohol at 21. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised if the country lowers its voting age to 16 in some places.

[Candy Kappa]

Also 16 year olds:

FZurGu12ojg

The guys in Jackass was between 20 and 40, humans in general do stupid things

[Powder]

No, in fact it should be raised to 21.

[Redeemer]

Yeah, no. 16 year olds are just a step above small children in terms of brain power.

:lol:

Thats a little bit of an exaggeration. :lol:

I do agree with other that the age should not be lowered. I would actually prefer if it was raised to 21 with an exception to anyone serving in the armed forces or local law enforcement.

Edit: Also I didn't think we were suppose to have anymore political threads???? lol

[Leo656]

A recent study that was published determined that the "grown-up" part of your brain isn't fully developed until around age 30. So if anything, that should be the minimum voting age.

Anyone under 25 is provably stupid to begin with.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm OK with whatever we agree is the age that we're 100% adult, and of sound mind. Whether that is 16, 18 or 21, or 30. And whatever number is decided, that age should get ALL the rights otherwise afforded to adults (gun rights, right to vote, buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc.).

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm OK with whatever we agree is the age that we're 100% adult, and of sound mind. Whether that is 16, 18 or 21, or 30. And whatever number is decided, that age should get ALL the rights otherwise afforded to adults (gun rights, right to vote, buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc.).

This is what I agree with the most.

Keep it consistent, so that someone who is old enough to vote is also not barred from serving in the military, and so on.

[Leo656]

The problem is, military service pretty much requires that people be young, mostly-uneducated, and lacking in foresight and common sense. So that skews things quite a bit. By age 25, no sane-thinking person would ever enlist in what's proven to be a very crappy deal, since all those promises about affordable college, housing, and health care never, ever pan out, since the one thing our government can consistently do well is promise to pay for things, and then just Not Do That.

So they need to keep enlistment ages young, or else they'd have nobody signing up and they'd have to bring back the draft. On paper, it sounds "fair" to have drinking, smoking, driving, voting, and military service all be achievable at one predetermined age of "maturity" - "I can go fight and die for my country, but I can't buy a beer?!" - but again, it pays to understand what the scam is, and how it specifically works.

Incidentally, those on the Left who want to lower the voting age want it for the exact same reason as having young enlistment age requirements: They too depend on people who are young, uneducated, and lacking in common sense and foresight. ALL young people vote Democrat, because at that age "Give everybody free sh*t and just figure out how to pay for it later" sounds like a great idea, as do ALL decisions based on compassion moreso than, y'know, common sense. Then you hit 30 and realize that your paycheck drops by a third every time someone builds a new school in the area, and you get really fed up with all that.

It's a very transparent scam, just like their scam to abolish Voter I.D. laws to prove you're a citizen, even though they're absolutely necessary. But no, nobody at age 16 is wise or experienced enough to do much of anything, so we shouldn't allow them to have a say in anything important. Or even important-ish. Let 'em come back in ten years when all the cocaine and Corona is out of their system and they've proven they can make good decisions; until then, whining on FB should be the absolute limit of their involvement in the political process.

[sdp]

Voting age should be 20-50, there's a reason companies don't like to hire before/after a certain age.

[oldmanwinters]

I'm OK with whatever we agree is the age that we're 100% adult, and of sound mind. Whether that is 16, 18 or 21, or 30. And whatever number is decided, that age should get ALL the rights otherwise afforded to adults (gun rights, right to vote, buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc.).

I fully agree.

[Redeemer]

A recent study that was published determined that the "grown-up" part of your brain isn't fully developed until around age 30. So if anything, that should be the minimum voting age.

Anyone under 25 is provably stupid to begin with.

Thats new.... universally the brain is not considered fully developed until age 25 or 26. The brain become optimally efficient at age 32ish when we are cognitively most efficient.

The study was probably talking about peak proficiency.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, at 16... are you kidding me? At 16 I was a moron. I certainly didn't have the first notion of politics and certainly had no business in the voting booth. Even at 18. Maybe 20 is when it really began to make sense.

[snake]

I can speak for my age group- as a 17 year old- that we absolutely should not be voting.

[Andrew NDB]

Even the most pompous and politically-minded people in high school were clearly just parroting whatever their parents were telling them, or what they were overhearing from their parents.

[snake]

Now it's parroting either Reddit or one of the hundreds of conservative based Instagram activism accounts depending on which side of the scale you fall on.

I parrot what I hear on Joe Rogan, so I'm in a league of my own.

[Andrew NDB]

I parrot what I hear on Joe Rogan, so I'm in a league of my own.

I listen to a lot of Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew, myself. I don't always agree with them... but I agree with 95% of what they say.

[snake]

The funny thing is, is that this is such a sneaky left-wing move. If anyone knows how to sell idealism to impressionable youths, it would be them. Especially when kids are retarded as f*ck and latch on to half-baked ideologies pretty quickly.

The right can't reach kiddies directly for the life of them. Literally all of the gen-z right wing death squads are coming from the f*cking internet. The left's image of California hipster soy-children fighting for more multiculturalism in the knitting community at least appeals to some dumbasses out there. On the opposite side you have the marketing directly from the Republican Party- which is unappealing as f*ck. No kid wants to "troll the libs" by typing like a goddamned grandpa and using Trump-isms. All of the stuff that's turning the youth into having a more right wing mindset comes from places like 4chan, or guys like Jordan Peterson/Ben Shapiro/YouTube Intellectuals. I guess Alt-Right is a pretty good term for it, even if it doesn't exist in the way the media (and the rest of the f*cking Internet) portrays it to.


I hate using words like Republican, Democrat, Conservative, or Liberal. It makes you sound like an uninformed, antiquated facebook-er who sucks Trump's dick at every opportunity, yet would disregard and insult a politician belonging to the opposing party proposing essentially the same ideas. It makes you look retarded, and more like a sports fan rooting for your favorite team than anything. STUPID DEMOCRATS, TYPICAL. SAD! LOOK, HERE'S A BLACK GUY WEARING A MAGA HAT- DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH! Shut the f*ck up already, dude. God, the only thing that would fix this country would be a nuke at this point.

The two party system is stupid, and the average person is even stupider- regardless of where you fall on the scale.

[Andrew NDB]

The funny thing is, is that this is such a sneaky left-wing move. If anyone knows how to sell idealism to impressionable youths, it would be them. Especially when kids are retarded as f*ck and latch on to half-baked ideologies pretty quickly.

The right can't reach kiddies directly for the life of them. Literally all of the gen-z right wing death squads are coming from the f*cking internet. The left's image of California hipster soy-children fighting for more multiculturalism in the knitting community at least appeals to some dumbasses out there. On the opposite side you have the marketing directly from the Republican Party- which is unappealing as f*ck. No kid wants to "troll the libs" by typing like a goddamned grandpa and using Trump-isms.

This is true. As kids we are naturally very progressive, big-eyed and wanting to change everything. It isn't until later we understand how things really work, after hard work and struggles, and realize how dumb we were in retrospect. That comes with time and experience and watching people around you.

Though there is the people that never work hard, who just envy those who have more, without much thought into "how can I get more?" And just stew on the envy side of it. I think the two biggest problems now are envy (which is a malignant thing... for fun, Google the studies on monkeys being given grapes vs. cucumbers and what happens) and a lack of shaming/self-policing.

All of the stuff that's turning the youth into having a more right wing mindset comes from places like 4chan, or guys like Jordan Peterson/Ben Shapiro/YouTube Intellectuals. I guess Alt-Right is a pretty good term for it, even if it doesn't exist in the way the media (and the rest of the f*cking Internet) portrays it to.

I don't listen to them/watch them a lot, but I agree with almost everything those two say that I've seen or heard... except on abortion. We need to pump those numbers up!

I hate using words like Republican, Democrat, Conservative, or Liberal. It makes you sound like an uninformed, antiquated facebook-er who sucks Trump's dick at every opportunity, yet would disregard and insult a politician belonging to the opposing party proposing essentially the same ideas. It makes you look retarded, and more like a sports fan rooting for your favorite team than anything. STUPID DEMOCRATS, TYPICAL. SAD! LOOK, HERE'S A BLACK GUY WEARING A MAGA HAT- DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH! Shut the f*ck up already, dude. God, the only thing that would fix this country would be a nuke at this point.

The two party system is stupid, and the average person is even stupider- regardless of where you fall on the scale.

All of this is true. Politics has become the NFL, if there was only two teams. "Oh, you're a Broncos fan? F*** YOU!" etc.. Leo656 will probably say it has become more like the WWE, and that isn't entirely wrong either.

[snake]

WWE is a good comparison, because in both cases the current product is a sh*tshow.

[Leo656]

Leo656 will probably say it has become more like the WWE, and that isn't entirely wrong either.

Eric Bischoff did an amazing speech about this not that long ago. I posted a link to it somewhere a while back. If you search "Eric Bischoff Politics" it should pop up.

[wpugh2424]

this shouldn't even be a debate

Oregon, I respect the state, but this is just wrong. voting shouldn't be allowed til after more formative years. I would say push it to 21-22.

[Refractive Reflections]

Democrats are going so far left, they think anything right of them is facism considering Democrats want: to tear down the border wall, make illegal aliens having voting rights, lower the age to 16, give people who don't want to work a universal basic income, stop individuals from eating meat (New York City schools having "Meatless Mondays"), think capitalism is so bad that socialism is worth pursuing.

If anything the voting age should be raised to at least 25 years old, since that's when most scientists state that's when the young brain stops developing.

It's amazing that society doesn't think 16 year olds have the maturity to have a full driver's license, accept full adult financial, legal, and career responsibility, yet somehow have the intellect and maturity to vote for the political direction of our country, and (even younger) decide to pursue hormonal and surgical transgender methods with lifelong biological and physiological repercussions based simply on how the young individual "feels". Stunning how selective society has become to an individual's maturity.

...Maybe it's reflective of current society in how it wants all the advantages of being an adult, but wants to avoid the hard weighing responsibility that comes with it.

https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020_democrats-1024x727.jpg

[Prowler]

Yeah, at 16... are you kidding me? At 16 I was a moron. I certainly didn't have the first notion of politics and certainly had no business in the voting booth. Even at 18. Maybe 20 is when it really began to make sense.
yeah at 16 I didn't know jack either.

I can speak for my age group- as a 17 year old- that we absolutely should not be voting.
When I was 18-20 a lot of people I knew didn't know any better either or bothered to vote. A lot of people never figure things out. I doubt most voters know how to inform themselves properly tbh.

Even the most pompous and politically-minded people in high school were clearly just parroting whatever their parents were telling them, or what they were overhearing from their parents.
Yeah, obviously. Most kids I knew back in my HS days shared the same views their parents did.

[Sumac]

Democrats are going so far left, they think anything right of them is facism considering Democrats want: to tear down the border wall, make illegal aliens having voting rights, lower the age to 16, give people who don't want to work a universal basic income, stop individuals from eating meat (New York City schools having "Meatless Mondays"), think capitalism is so bad that socialism is worth pursuing.

If anything the voting age should be raised to at least 25 years old, since that's when most scientists state that's when the young brain stops developing.

It's amazing that society doesn't think 16 year olds have the maturity to have a full driver's license, accept full adult financial, legal, and career responsibility, yet somehow have the intellect and maturity to vote for the political direction of our country, and (even younger) decide to pursue hormonal and surgical transgender methods with lifelong biological and physiological repercussions based simply on how the young individual "feels". Stunning how selective society has become to an individual's maturity.

...Maybe it's reflective of current society in how it wants all the advantages of being an adult, but wants to avoid the hard weighing responsibility that comes with it.
1000% this.
Infantilism of the Western society is a thing, sadly. Which explains a lot about current political climate.

Incidentally, those on the Left who want to lower the voting age want it for the exact same reason as having young enlistment age requirements: They too depend on people who are young, uneducated, and lacking in common sense and foresight. ALL young people vote Democrat, because at that age "Give everybody free sh*t and just figure out how to pay for it later" sounds like a great idea, as do ALL decisions based on compassion moreso than, y'know, common sense. Then you hit 30 and realize that your paycheck drops by a third every time someone builds a new school in the area, and you get really fed up with all that.
This is a good thought too.

I remember I was very much "left" back when I was 15-17. As I started to get accustomed to the adult world, without anyone's help it has become obvious that things works slightly different from all this wonderful utopia proclamations.

[Prowler]

1000% this.
Infantilism of the Western society is a thing, sadly. Which explains a lot about current political climate.

Someone told me once there is a theory about how people and societies get more sensitive or mentally weaker when they go through long periods of peace/no war or something like that.

Europe and the Western world as a whole have enjoyed a lot of peace and prosperity since the 2nd half of the 20th century, which is good, but I guess on the other hand we've become a bit weak as well. So it's a double-edged sword.

Many decades ago, people simply didn't have the time to feel down or unhappy. They were too worried about not dying in a war or not starving to death.

[Voltron]

Many decades ago, people simply didn't have the time to feel down or unhappy. They were too worried about not dying in a war or not starving to death.

What the hell? That's the definition of feeling down and unhappy. That's why we had that many wars. The Bolsheviks didn't murder the Tsar because it was on their to-do list. People were in constant misery. And there's ample evidence of this. I mean, Charles Dickens is famous for talking about how much life sucked in England. Even the Bible details how bad everything was starting pretty much from the get-go.

[Prowler]

What the hell? That's the definition of feeling down and unhappy. That's why we had that many wars. The Bolsheviks didn't murder the Tsar because it was on their to-do list. People were in constant misery. And there's ample evidence of this. I mean, Charles Dickens is famous for talking about how much life sucked in England. Even the Bible details how bad everything was starting pretty much from the get-go.

I mean, they weren't happy, but at the same time mental health, depression, etc. weren't very well known yet. And people couldn't search for professional help as easily as they can nowadays. Plus, it's likely you'd be either too poor to afford it or you'd just be busy somewhere else fighting a war. That's what I was trying to say.

[sdp]

I don't see how young people are such a big concern, no matter how uneducated they are while voting they don't vote in such great numbers. The older people grow the less informed they are about the world around them and they start making decisions based on their outdated thinking. They represent a much larger percentage and actually affect results.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

What the hell? That's the definition of feeling down and unhappy. That's why we had that many wars.

War is euphoric.

[Voltron]

Really? i've always heard that war is Hell. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

[Candy Kappa]

War is euphoric.

You’re making me think of a evil version of WarriorMale :lol:

[IndigoErth]

I'm kind of torn on lowering the age... While a lot more youth seem to be interested in politics and what's going on in the world and their own country than they were in my day, I'm sure there is probably still a large percentage (maybe a majority?) that, like many of us back then, really couldn't care less yet and hardly have a clue. And uninformed votes are not really what we need more of. It's hard enough to hope most of the adults are.

[Leo656]

War is euphoric.

Really? i've always heard that war is Hell.

My father used to say, "War is Inevitable".

We didn't agree on much, but he was a big student of history and despite being a huge hippie, constantly laughed off any notions of humankind ever achieving any meaningful "peace", citing how too much of the global economy depends on war for it to ever go away, and besides that, how human beings are generally incapable of solving their differences through non-violent means. "Any concept or idea that's been with us longer than 'civilization' itself is never going away," basically. It's too ingrained in who we are.

I often question whether he was a fan of the "hippie" movement for any reasons beyond all the drugs and pussy. But he did love The Grateful Dead beyond any and all rationale or reason. So maybe he was just a very complicated person.

[Redeemer]

Why are we discussing the lowering of the voting age when we can't even get people to the polls to vote who are already eligible????? like seriously :lol:

We then have a war between news network using misinformation and blatantly manipulating facts and truth. We have a foreign power trying to manipulate or election results. We had a president accused of colluding with said power (Thankfully that appears to not be the case.)

Point being is I think we have a lot more concerns and work to do besides lowering the voting age. :lol:

[Leo656]

Again, it's only being floated as a possibility because one party will stop at nothing to create a permanent base of gullible people who think people's "feelings" matter in the Big Picture of setting policy for billions of people, when in fact they don't.

They've been trying to create a permanent underclass "Welfare State" for years (hence trying to abolish Voter ID laws and claiming they're "discriminatory" instead of Common Goddamn Sense). If they can't have that, tricking people who are middling their way through Sociology I and read Marx on their Summer vacation into voting for them seems like the next best thing.

[Refractive Reflections]

Someone told me once there is a theory about how people and societies get more sensitive or mentally weaker when they go through long periods of peace/no war or something like that.

Europe and the Western world as a whole have enjoyed a lot of peace and prosperity since the 2nd half of the 20th century, which is good, but I guess on the other hand we've become a bit weak as well. So it's a double-edged sword.

Many decades ago, people simply didn't have the time to feel down or unhappy. They were too worried about not dying in a war or not starving to death.
I mean, they weren't happy, but at the same time mental health, depression, etc. weren't very well known yet. And people couldn't search for professional help as easily as they can nowadays. Plus, it's likely you'd be either too poor to afford it or you'd just be busy somewhere else fighting a war. That's what I was trying to say.

I think what you could be meaning is that the standard for contentment was very low considering how violent the first 2/3 of the 20th century was (WWI, WWII, the Communist Revolutions of Russia and China, Korean War, Vietnam War), the epidemics that used to easily kill millions (like the Spanish Flu of 1919-1920 that infected 500 milllion, and killed 50-100 million (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu)) before the advent of vaccines and antibiotics in the mid 20th century, and what we consider necessities (electricity, clean water and sanitation) were previously considered luxuries in the beginning of their implementation around the end of the 19th century.

Our lifestyles are certainly much more comfortable and improved than compared to our grandparents' lifestyles.

[Prowler]

I think what you could be meaning is that the standard for contentment was very low considering how violent the first 2/3 of the 20th century was (WWI, WWII, the Communist Revolutions of Russia and China, Korean War, Vietnam War), the epidemics that used to easily kill millions (like the Spanish Flu of 1919-1920 that infected 500 milllion, and killed 50-100 million (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu)) before the advent of vaccines and antibiotics in the mid 20th century, and what we consider necessities (electricity, clean water and sanitation) were previously considered luxuries in the beginning of their implementation around the end of the 19th century.

Our lifestyles are certainly much more comfortable and improved than compared to our grandparents' lifestyles.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Thanks for the help.

[Andrew NDB]

They're still pushing for it:

https://meng.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/meng-reintroduces-legislation-to-lower-the-voting-age-in-america-to-16-0

https://www.youthrights.org/issues/voting-age/top-ten-reasons-to-lower-the-voting-age/

[IndigoErth]

Sorry, kids, no, I don't agree, it won't kill 16-year-olds to wait just two more years. Esp when presidential elections only happen every 4th year. It didn't kill the rest of us either and you're far from the first generation to have those responsibilities you claim. You're just the most self centered "give it to me now!" generation. Most of what you kids tend to whine about isn't anything new starting with you, it's been everyone before you and in some ways you have it easier.

We are also capable of incredible intelligence and accomplishment.
A few outliers does not mean the self obsessed Tiktok generation should get to make important decisions yet. Late teens and young 20s is risky enough given the remaining amount of immaturity left to be outgrown.