April's ethnicity moving forward

[sdp]

With Rise of the TMNT we got our first black April and we've had plenty of debates linked here of whether she was ever black (TLDR; not really but kind of). But Rise is changing things up and I like that, it should change as much as it can to be different. But how would you want to see April in future incarnations?

I think if a movie gets made and Rise is still in the air we'll get a black April in the movie. Same thought if Rise is cancelled prematurely then likely a future incarnation won't have a black April but if it's a success it's more likely. Me personally I want red headed April back, I prefer an original character that is black who I can like instead of forcing a race on another, also all the red headed characters are always the ones being made into black and we barely had enough red headed characters.

When I saw this headline I kinda laughed and I said, "Oh, this is ridiculous. Yet another person claiming it's racist to have a white April." And by the way, for all you kids reading at home, April just is white. But these persons are maybe just arguing that we should also have a black April. But, you know, April is what she is, and just so you know, we're just debating this because someone wrote about it, kids.

Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable doesn't mean it has to change. You know, I mean, Santa was a white man too. He was a historical figure; that's a verifiable fact—as is April, I want you kids reading to know that—but my point is: how do you revise it, in the middle of the legacy of the story, and change April from white to black?

[snake]

I don't care. I prefer her as a redhead, but she's literally a non-character in most incarnations. It's not like she has any defining characteristics outside of "sometimes is a reporter".

[Andrew NDB]

I wouldn't cry if she was made black or even Latina in other stuff.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Any race, as long as she's attractive.

[Candy Kappa]

I too prefer a redhead April, but she never was a redhead until 2012 show, and Mirage April albeit partially based of a Black person and might have had some Black coding in the art was intended to be White. Saint Nick was most likely a Moor, but Santa Clause who's a mixture of St. Nick, Father Time, the Norse God Odin so while he's usually depicted White but this fat Fey creature can be any ethnicity.

And like Santa, April can be any ethnicity (she's a blank canvas ready to be drawn). Nothing ties her down to race or job for that matter cause she's a everyday person thrown into a crazy ass adventure with the Turtles. And I doubt April will be Black forever after Rise, I'm sure after Rise we'll prob fly get a more "back to usual business" cartoon where April is white (maybe a redhead) and Leo leads with Shredder and Krang at it again.

Maybe next show has her as a Black redhead in her twenties and we all win

[IndigoErth]

Given the last name, I prefer the Irish route. But that doesn't mean she can't also be mixed race with Irish roots on dad's side.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I know it is unlikely, given her name and history, but I would be curious to see what a Japanese April would be like.

[Candy Kappa]

Next April could pull a Lou Jitsu and get a new name

[CyberCubed]

Make her white again. There's no reason to change races at all. I don't think anything Rise does will stick with any future version anyway.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Make her white again. There's no reason to change races at all. I don't think anything Rise does will stick with any future version anyway.

This. When Cubed is right, he's right.

[Powder]

I don't like change for the sake of change either, let alone for ideological or politically motivated reasons, but April's race isn't of much importance in the big picture. Certainly not to the same extent as Hamato Yoshi, for example. Granted her last name has its geographical ties, there's no saying she couldn't be a mixed race character to zero consequence.

That said, it matters far more to me that she be handled properly. Which is to say, done in the vein of Mirage. Not a news reporter, not a ninja in training, not a sassy bitch, but a smart, tech-savvy woman, thrust into the turtles' world. One whose role is more of a sister/mother/operative, not a peer in combat or a damsel in distress, just a human link for the turtles.

[Redeemer]

Given the last name, I prefer the Irish route. But that doesn't mean she can't also be mixed race with Irish roots on dad's side.

I voted for Irish April, but this could be done as well.

Honestly I just don't like it when people change character ethnicity or race. This was done with Baxter Stockman already and *almost happened with shredder. If you want to make a cast more diverse just introduce new characters.

I think Spider-man is probably the best example of this. They have introduced two iconic characters in recent years with Myles Morales and Spider-Gwen. They could have just made Peter-Parker black, but instead they made this new amazing character in Myles Morales.

I wish Rise did this especially given how different the series is. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce a new female allies or protagonist or maybe even try to re-introduce Venus :o

[Roseangelo]

I honestly don't care.

[Leo656]

It's a Celtic surname, so she should probably be white. Being non-white or mixed-race invites too many questions and Logical Somersaults to explain away her backstory, when as others have said nobody can even really figure out who "April" even IS (or should be) as a character. Things are complicated enough without explaining why someone would have such an overwhelmingly Irish surname despite not physically looking like an "O'Neil". And it would, and does, beg an explanation. If someone can't even have a coherent Present, they shouldn't have an over-complicated Past or Pre-History.
-------

I'm not sure why so many people have such an aversion to April being a reporter. Perhaps it makes her "too active" in the stories, or more "glamorous" than she ought to be, but I'd personally argue that it's not only the most memorable version of April, but the only time she's ever been interesting.

Like, what else is there? In Mirage she was a lab assistant for 5 minutes, and then... ummm... the next thing I remember, there was Time Travel Shenanigans, and aside from being revealed as a Pencil Drawing Pinocchio, she got turned into a roach and f*cked other roaches, and then I stopped giving a sh*t what happened to her altogether because the story was terrible.

She's definitely in desperate need of an "Official" history. I absolutely HATE when a character has such a ludicrous mish-mash of conflicting "origin stories". If you ask someone, "Who Is ______?", there should be ONE answer, maybe two if they've been around for 5 or 6 decades, but that is IT.

April O'Neil isn't a "character", she's a visual that people remember from a cartoon show. That being said, I don't see why elements from the only memorable version shouldn't graduate into being "canon" status, to some degree.

[snake]

The go-to April that pops in my mind first is the OT one, and I’d wager that goes the same for the average fan as well.

She’s also got a huge rack and I feel that needs to be addressed more.

[sdp]

I too prefer a redhead April, but she never was a redhead until 2012 show, and Mirage April albeit partially based of a Black person and might have had some Black coding in the art was intended to be White. Saint Nick was most likely a Moor, but Santa Clause who's a mixture of St. Nick, Father Time, the Norse God Odin so while he's usually depicted White but this fat Fey creature can be any ethnicity.

And like Santa, April can be any ethnicity (she's a blank canvas ready to be drawn). Nothing ties her down to race or job for that matter cause she's a everyday person thrown into a crazy ass adventure with the Turtles. And I doubt April will be Black forever after Rise, I'm sure after Rise we'll prob fly get a more "back to usual business" cartoon where April is white (maybe a redhead) and Leo leads with Shredder and Krang at it again.

Maybe next show has her as a Black redhead in her twenties and we all win
The last two paragraphs were a reference to this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/12/megyn-kelly-assures-everyone-santa-white-even-though-he-does-not-exist/356054/

[victory_angel]

I don't mind either version of April. I don't see any sort of agenda with changing her skin color. Most versions of April have been Caucasian and given her Irish surname that is sort of an expectation. So making her African American is how the production team wanted to depict her this go round. One's skin color doesn't reflect what sort of character a person has, it's usually the environment and he upbringing one grows up with that determines a person's character.

So April in this version could be white, but that still wouldn't make her any less obnoxious. Just like she could be black in one the other versions and still be the cool-headed maternal/big sister figure she is often depicted as.


As to why she would have an Irish Surname when she's anything but has two plausibilities. One when people were brought over from Africa to sold into slavery, they were given the surname of their owners.

For example, take Alex Hailey's biography "Roots" His maternal Ancestor was named Kunta Kinte, he was abducted from his home in Gambia and was bought by a man with the surname of Waller. He is then given the name of "Toby Waller" Later on he becomes the slave of a man named Raynolds so he becomes "Toby Raynolds" Then when his daughter Kizzy is sold off to a man named Thomas Lea she becomes "Kizzy Lea" ect.

So one of April's ancestors could have been a slave by someone named O'Neil and that surname was passed down through the generations following the abolition of slavery.

The other possibility is that since we have never seen April's parents in this version, she could have been adopted by an Irish-American family which is why she has the Irish Surname.

In future generations of this series, I do think that Irish American April will be a common characterization, but there will also be other incarnations where she will be depicted as African American, or maybe both races.

[Leo656]

As to why she would have an Irish Surname when she's anything but has two plausibilities. One when people were brought over from Africa to sold into slavery, they were given the surname of their owners.

For example, take Alex Hailey's biography "Roots" His maternal Ancestor was named Kunta Kinte, he was abducted from his home in Gambia and was bought by a man with the surname of Waller. He is then given the name of "Toby Waller" Later on he becomes the slave of a man named Raynolds so he becomes "Toby Raynolds" Then when his daughter Kizzy is sold off to a man named Thomas Lea she becomes "Kizzy Lea" ect.

So one of April's ancestors could have been a slave by someone named O'Neil and that surname was passed down through the generations following the abolition of slavery.

The other possibility is that since we have never seen April's parents in this version, she could have been adopted by an Irish-American family which is why she has the Irish Surname.


Again, though, WAY too much backstory and explanation before we even get to the present-day character herself. 99.9% of "O'Neils" are White Irish, it is what it is, just let it Be That. No need to force the square peg into the round hole for the sake of Diversity Points. Especially if the explanation doesn't do much more than put people to sleep. It's needless.

Likewise, if I created a character named "Darryl Jones", or "Shaniqua Johnson", I would completely forgive you for picturing a black person. I'd be kind of an idiot to make them white just so I could say, "A-HA! See? I subverted your expectations, you RACIST!" They're traditionally "black" names and there's nothing wrong with that. No need to play games with people to try and prove a point about "Well, but ONE out of like several MILLION people are an exception to that rule." No sh*t. :roll: Not all people from the Deep South hate black people, either... like ONE per every million, probably isn't racist. I still think we can safely call it A Rule. Just like most "O'Neils" are safely proven white.

KISS Theory. "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

The go-to April that pops in my mind first is the OT one, and I’d wager that goes the same for the average fan as well.

She’s also got a huge rack and I feel that needs to be addressed more.

Agreed. This is a much more important topic and demands further attention. :tgrin:

[Sumac]

Irish April.
Talking with heavy Irish accent and swearing like a truck driver.

On serious note: redhead April. If you want your ****ing diversity - invent a new character, stop recoloring the old ones. It's creatively bankrupt.

Certainly not to the same extent as Hamato Yoshi, for example.
It's hard to make someone named "Hamato Yoshi" anything else, but Japanese.
Unless Japanese would be considered "not diverse enough" by whiny crowd, that is.

[Leo656]

If you want your ****ing diversity - invent a new character, stop recoloring the old ones. It's creatively bankrupt.


On this we agree.

[Candy Kappa]

It's hard to make someone named "Hamato Yoshi" anything else, but Japanese.
Unless Japanese would be considered "not diverse enough" by whiny crowd, that is.

Is it though? Hamato is not a real Japanese name and Yoshi could be short for Yoshiyahu which is Jewish.

Hamato Yoshi sounds Japanese enough to non-Japanese people in the same manner as "Shown Furcotte" sounds American enough for a Japanese audience :lol:

Even some of the Japanese dubs of the FW show had Yoshi renamed Yoshihama Takeshi so it sounded like a real name.

Irish April.
Talking with heavy Irish accent and swearing like a truck driver.

That's be interesting actually, have her be from Ireland and have immigrated to USA for her dream job.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Changing anything for the sake of change or to cater towards a certain demographic, with no real plot or character reason is stupid

[Sumac]

That's be interesting actually, have her be from Ireland and have immigrated to USA for her dream job.
I can see it: down on her luck, semi-bum, slightly alcoholic April goes to work as janitor into Stockman laboratories and accidentally discovers mousers and so on.
But she still must swear like a truck driver!!

Though I guess, it wouldn't do for a cartoon.

Changing anything for the sake of change or to cater towards a certain demographic, with no real plot or character reason is stupid
If you don't fill the quota with characters of different races it's not progressive!!

Never mind that there is an Angel if you want black supporting character or Pimiko, Lotus and Karai if you want an Asian one.

[Andrew NDB]

Future iterations may try to -- like they attempted to with TMNT 2014 -- remove the Japanese connection altogether.

Chinese hate the Japanese and we need that China box office, after all...

[neatoman]

Well to be fair, can we really say that a character who is canonically a figment of someone's imagination brought to life, actually has an ethnicity in the first place? The only explicit deviation from that is Nick April, who was part Utrom.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Future iterations may try to -- like they attempted to with TMNT 2014 -- remove the Japanese connection altogether.

Chinese hate the Japanese and we need that China box office, after all...

Teenage Mutant Kung Fu Turtles!

Teenage Mutant Kung Fu Turtles!

Teenage Mutant Kung Fu Turtles!

Heroes in a Halfshell!

Turtle Power!

[DonnieTello]

As long as she retains her personality and role as a motherly figure towards the turtles, I don't care what race she is. But I think they seriously botched Rise in this regard because if they wanted to promote diversity, they did a very poor job (within the world of the show, at least) of it considering the only thing they could think to make April into was the most stereotypical archetype for a black woman humanly possible: the sassy black chick. Instead of making a black April they made a token. Woman? Check. Black? Check. Good, now our racially diverse cast quota is filled. Give her a unique personality? Why? We don't need to do any more work, make her sassy and call it a day. That's all the rest of our modern and so called "progressive" media has to do nowadays to make itself look good.

[Sumac]

Well to be fair, can we really say that a character who is canonically a figment of someone's imagination brought to life, actually has an ethnicity in the first place? The only explicit deviation from that is Nick April, who was part Utrom.
By that logic, Turtles can be turned into Old Magical Karate Hamsters, since they are just a figment of someone's imagination.

Fictional characters, while not real, has some traits which define them. Not only in terms of personality, but also in terms of appearance. And yes, race is a part of those traits. This is why changing character race, with no explanation other than filling the quota, is stupid. It's like changing inherent part of the character. And whether their race is significant for their story or not is irrelevant.

Characters are defined in their entirety, not in "separate" interchangeable parts. You might change some parts of the character, but they are certain things, which should be beyond changes.

[Candy Kappa]

Well to be fair, can we really say that a character who is canonically a figment of someone's imagination brought to life, actually has an ethnicity in the first place? The only explicit deviation from that is Nick April, who was part Utrom.

By that logic, Turtles can be turned into Old Magical Karate Hamsters, since they are just a figment of someone's imagination.

Mirage April is a literal ink drawing brought to life

[neatoman]

Thanks, obviously I wasn't clear enough.

Yes canonically (as in "this is presented as being true within the story itself"), April is in fact one of her father's drawings brought to life thanks to a magic crystal. The only explicit deviation from this is the Nick cartoon, where her conception is instead the result of genetic Utrom experiments.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Mirage April is a literal ink drawing brought to life

Let's not forget the cockroach orgies.

Lest we forget, and crimes greater than these rise to take their place.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Mirage April is a literal ink drawing brought to life

That was revealed many years later, and is one of the most unpopular Mirage ideas ever.

[Candy Kappa]

That was revealed many years later, and is one of the most unpopular Mirage ideas ever.

still canon

[Andrew NDB]

That was revealed many years later, and is one of the most unpopular Mirage ideas ever.

Meh. It was fine. People kind of got a little nutty about it, as if it was an attack.

"NOT MY APRIL!" etc., etc..

If you ever pick up "Origin" we get into that again. A bit.

[Prowler]

Make her white again. There's no reason to change races at all. I don't think anything Rise does will stick with any future version anyway.

I don't like change for the sake of change either, let alone for ideological or politically motivated reasons, but April's race isn't of much importance in the big picture. Certainly not to the same extent as Hamato Yoshi, for example. Granted her last name has its geographical ties, there's no saying she couldn't be a mixed race character to zero consequence.

That said, it matters far more to me that she be handled properly. Which is to say, done in the vein of Mirage. Not a news reporter, not a ninja in training, not a sassy bitch, but a smart, tech-savvy woman, thrust into the turtles' world. One whose role is more of a sister/mother/operative, not a peer in combat or a damsel in distress, just a human link for the turtles.

It's a Celtic surname, so she should probably be white. Being non-white or mixed-race invites too many questions and Logical Somersaults to explain away her backstory, when as others have said nobody can even really figure out who "April" even IS (or should be) as a character. Things are complicated enough without explaining why someone would have such an overwhelmingly Irish surname despite not physically looking like an "O'Neil". And it would, and does, beg an explanation. If someone can't even have a coherent Present, they shouldn't have an over-complicated Past or Pre-History.
-------

I'm not sure why so many people have such an aversion to April being a reporter. Perhaps it makes her "too active" in the stories, or more "glamorous" than she ought to be, but I'd personally argue that it's not only the most memorable version of April, but the only time she's ever been interesting.

Like, what else is there? In Mirage she was a lab assistant for 5 minutes, and then... ummm... the next thing I remember, there was Time Travel Shenanigans, and aside from being revealed as a Pencil Drawing Pinocchio, she got turned into a roach and f*cked other roaches, and then I stopped giving a sh*t what happened to her altogether because the story was terrible.

She's definitely in desperate need of an "Official" history. I absolutely HATE when a character has such a ludicrous mish-mash of conflicting "origin stories". If you ask someone, "Who Is ______?", there should be ONE answer, maybe two if they've been around for 5 or 6 decades, but that is IT.

April O'Neil isn't a "character", she's a visual that people remember from a cartoon show. That being said, I don't see why elements from the only memorable version shouldn't graduate into being "canon" status, to some degree.

Irish April.
Talking with heavy Irish accent and swearing like a truck driver.

On serious note: redhead April. If you want your ****ing diversity - invent a new character, stop recoloring the old ones. It's creatively bankrupt.


It's hard to make someone named "Hamato Yoshi" anything else, but Japanese.
Unless Japanese would be considered "not diverse enough" by whiny crowd, that is.

I agree with all of the posts above. So I'm not gonna add anything else. I love it when someone else, especially FOUR different people say EXACTLY what I think. :tgrin:

The go-to April that pops in my mind first is the OT one, and I’d wager that goes the same for the average fan as well.

She’s also got a huge rack and I feel that needs to be addressed more.
Eh it's not that big compared to loads of female anime and video game characters. It seems realistic in terms of proportions, in fact. I've never felt like it was distracting or ridiculous like they did with Nami and Robin in One Piece after the timeskip, for example.
I don't really care if April is attractive tbh, as long as she's not painful to look at. I didn't care much for 2k3 April in the looks department but I didn't think she was gross at all either. But she did dress a bit like a teenager for someone who was like 23(?), however. And that looked a bit odd.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not a news reporter, not a ninja in training.

A journalist was one of the best ways for her to be a link to Human society 25–30 years ago. But these days, computer technician with hacking skills would probably be more attractive.

[Sumac]

Let's not forget the cockroach orgies.

Lest we forget, and crimes greater than these rise to take their place.
So, that's canon...
Ugh...

I need a bleach. :oops:

[IndigoErth]

I wish Rise did this especially given how different the series is. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce a new female allies or protagonist or maybe even try to re-introduce Venus :o
Agree. Especially with 'Rise' trying to go supposedly younger, it would have even worked fine to go back to classic April as an adult who comes into their lives later on, should the series last that long, and have the same-age girl they changed April into be another new friend who comes into their lives sooner. Missed opportunity.

edit: And had she not been April, then it might have been fun to someday see an older version of the TMNT finally and bring her back as a young adult as well. Ah well.

[Leo656]

Let's not forget the cockroach orgies.

Lest we forget, and crimes greater than these rise to take their place.

Boy oh BOY, did I hate Vol. 4. :lol:

[neatoman]

Oh hey look, Sumac got banned. I'm so shocked...

[Leo656]

Patience is a Virtue.

[Prowler]

Boy oh BOY, did I hate Vol. 4. :lol:

When you look at Laird you'd never think so, but that whole thing REALLY makes me think that he did some stuff when he was younger and that it has caught up to him throughout the years.

After all, there's no way someone was sober that day/night they created the TMNT concept. No way.

[neatoman]

Patience is a Virtue.

I guess, I assumed it was inevitable given his stance on trying to act/pretend to be respectful.

[Leo656]

When you look at Laird you'd never think so, but that whole thing REALLY makes me think that he did some stuff when he was younger and that it has caught up to him throughout the years.

After all, there's no way someone was sober that day/night they created the TMNT concept. No way.


Oh, they were definitely, definitely stoned outta their gourd. 100%.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Boy oh BOY, did I hate Vol. 4. :lol:

Which is a shame, because there are a LOT of good TMNT ideas in there. Utrom First Contact, the Battle Nexus, Splinter dying, Mikey and the Regenta, Mikey and the alien princess, Mikey and the Triceraton commandos, Don and the Utroms in South America...

But man. Yeah, you can't convince me drugs aren't somewhere involved in that whole "April is a magic drawing and becomes a cockroach in the past and YES, she and Renet attended cockroach parties."

C'mon, Pete. C'MON.

[Leo656]

I feel like TMNT in general could be summed up as, "Kevin and Pete had some interesting ideas... and then a bunch of other people executed those ideas way, WAY better than they ever could."

It's okay. Siegel & Shuster's Superman stories weren't the best ever, and neither were Kane and Finger's Batman stories. Respect for the original author should always be observed, but most of the time, their ideas are refined and better-executed by others who came after them.

It happens.

[Andrew NDB]

I feel like TMNT in general could be summed up as, "Kevin and Pete had some interesting ideas... and then a bunch of other people executed those ideas way, WAY better than they ever could."

I'd sum it up as more, "Kevin and Pete had some great ideas... then a bunch of other people turned them into kiddie mush, then Pete sold all the rights so that bunches of additional people can make more and more kiddie mush."

[Leo656]

Well, SOME of that is also true. :lol:

Okay, a lot of it. Still... when it comes to Kev & Pete, neither one of them is capable of presenting TMNT as I'd prefer it, apparently.

Kevin's stuff is too over-the-top goofy and "edgelord" hyper-violent, and Pete's is far too dry and political-preaching, with tons of characters talking to each other and nothing ever happening. And when stuff DOES happen, it's stuff like the April/drawing/cockroach stuff, and it's like "Y'know... this isn't good."

Once, for like 5 minutes, they came together and their collaboration gave birth to something generally even-handed and pretty good. But altogether that's like a blip on the radar. Individually, I don't like either of their work very much.

[sdp]

I didn't mean this thread to be another black april thread, but I certainly didn't help with the Fox News transcript in the OP. The point of the thread is not if April should be black but if you'd want her as black in future installments or if you thought it was likely that she'd continue to be black. The discussion of whether she is black or not has already been beaten to death.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I didn't mean this thread to be another black april thread, but I certainly didn't help with the Fox News transcript in the OP. The point of the thread is not if April should be black but if you'd want her as black in future installments or if you thought it was likely that she'd continue to be black. The discussion of whether she is black or not has already been beaten to death.

Once you go black, you never go back.

No, I don't think we'll see much of white April in new incarnations, moving forward.

[Leo656]

Hopefully we won't always have "Tasmanian Devil April" stinking up the joint, either.

[Dejablue]

On this we agree.

But the only thing that stays consistent about April, iteration to iteration, is her race. She's a radically different person every single time.

As far as future iterations, no doubt she will default back to white. But I don't have a problem with her not being white. Wasn't she originally supposed to be of Asian ethnicity? So to all the people frothing at the mouth at the thought of April being black, would you be just as ass pained if the next April ends up being Chinese? In my mind it works like this. In MOST universes characters look a certain way.I.E. April is white 90% of the time. But every once in a while you will have variables. I.E. Baxter Stockman ends up being white like that one time.

But even then I have small rules that contradict this. In my mind Karai, Oroku Saki, Hamato Yoshi obviously have to be Japanese every time. (Maybe chinese/chinese mix but that is getting into ridiculous details) Because Ninja are exclusive to Japan, these characters can't come from anywhere else. Their race is important to who they are as characters.

As far as volume 4 is concerned. It does have PROBLEMS. But as I read it I think it had good ideas (not April being a drawing cuz wtf) By the time it ended (on its cliff hanger) I could tell that Laird had written himself into a corner.

[Leo656]

To your point, as I and others have stated, it would be nice if SOMEthing - ANYthing - about April could stay consistent from one version to the next. Her race, her hair color, her job, her personality... ANYthing.

She's worse than goddamn Donna Troy.

[Chet]

I think new ethnicities should be new characters. Reskinning regulars seems pointless.

[Dane E5R]

So, this conversation is 85% likely to just piss me off in the end, but what the heck. It doesn’t matter to me what race she is. When I saw that she would be black, I was excited; unfortunately, I hate Rise. C’est la vie.

When it comes to her last name, it’s whatever. My last name is German; and that’s because the slave owners who owned my ancestors were German. Simple as that.

When it comes to race changing- The “create new characters” gripe annoys me. When new POC characters are introduced, they generally don’t last. White comic fans decide its a “black” book, and ignore it. The way to get new black characters with a possibility of sticking around? Slip them into something you’re already consuming like a pill coated in peanut butter.

Sometimes it doesn’t work, sometimes we get Sam jackson playing Nick Fury and an Oscar winning Spider-Man film.

[Xav]

I too prefer a redhead April, but she never was a redhead until 2012 show, and Mirage April albeit partially based of a Black person and might have had some Black coding in the art was intended to be White.Are you trying to tell me, Archie April, 2k3 April, and 2k7 April weren't redheads?

[Dejablue]

Are you trying to tell me, Archie April, 2k3 April, and 2k7 April weren't redheads?


Nope they were definitely red heads.

[IndigoErth]

When it comes to race changing- The “create new characters” gripe annoys me. When new POC characters are introduced, they generally don’t last. White comic fans decide its a “black” book, and ignore it. The way to get new black characters with a possibility of sticking around? Slip them into something you’re already consuming like a pill coated in peanut butter.
I can't speak from that perspective, so not trying to debate or step on any toes or anything, but, that said, I imagine it may not be entirely unlike when male characters are turned female?

From that angle I kinda get what you're saying, because in a similar vein its always seemed, and been bothersome, that if a woman is the central role (and not sexualized to make men like it) then people tend to decide that it's "for women" the majority of the time. (Or in this day and age labeled "feminist" for being female centered and shoved away in horror.:trolleye: )

It doesn't bug you at all though that a character revamp is probably just temporary? It's something I'm kind of torn on over this trend of doing that for these superhero films and whatnot with the gender switch.

On one hand, I think whatever, it's just temporary fun (even though the fanboys will be throwing a fit), on the other hand it's the fact that it IS just temporary, like a brief novelty, and I almost feel a little insulted because it seems to suggest we're not allowed or that we're somehow incapable of having original stuff that is equally awesome that everyone will love. :tconfuse:


I dunno... To each their own on this matter, but definitely some growing up society still has to do to come to terms with the fact that women and POC are part of the NORM, not a niche novelty that's only for the people who look like those depicted. I kinda see what I assume you mean (correct me if I'm wrong) with, in a sense, weaning viewers into better acceptance in this regard via taking that peanut butter-coated pill. I just feel like revamping a character for better diversity is a bit of a cheaper route to take and a lost opportunity to add to the franchise in the long run if a character is likely to just revert back to their usual depiction.

[Candy Kappa]

Are you trying to tell me, Archie April, 2k3 April, and 2k7 April weren't redheads?

Archie has more auburn hair, 2k3... magenta is not a real hair color so not really. I’ll give you 2007 April, I forgot about her existence when I wrote my post.

[Dejablue]

Archie has more auburn hair, 2k3... magenta is not a real hair color so not really. I’ll give you 2007 April, I forgot about her existence when I wrote my post.

Sweetie honey, auburn and magenta fall under the spectrum of "red" .

[Candy Kappa]

Sweetie honey, auburn and magenta fall under the spectrum of "red" .

Magenta fall under red as much as purple and pink does, “sweetie”. And Archie April’s auburn hair was all over the spectrum from downright brown, to caramel to more reddish.

But by all means, 2K3 April had a more naturals red rcolor in BttS, stars maybe that was her real hair color

[Dejablue]

Magenta fall under red as much as purple and pink does, “sweetie”. And Archie April’s auburn hair was all over the spectrum from downright brown, to caramel to more reddish.

But by all means, 2K3 April had a more naturals red rcolor in BttS, stars maybe that was her real hair color

If she had pink or purple hair then we'd say she was an anime character. She clearly didn't. Its just common sense to look at April across most iterations and say "yeah she's had red or red-ish hair". Saying it was "magenta" or "auburn" like it really makes that big of a difference is being pointlessly pedantic.

[Redeemer]

So, this conversation is 85% likely to just piss me off in the end, but what the heck. It doesn’t matter to me what race she is. When I saw that she would be black, I was excited; unfortunately, I hate Rise. C’est la vie.

When it comes to her last name, it’s whatever. My last name is German; and that’s because the slave owners who owned my ancestors were German. Simple as that.

When it comes to race changing- The “create new characters” gripe annoys me. When new POC characters are introduced, they generally don’t last. White comic fans decide its a “black” book, and ignore it. The way to get new black characters with a possibility of sticking around? Slip them into something you’re already consuming like a pill coated in peanut butter.

Sometimes it doesn’t work, sometimes we get Sam jackson playing Nick Fury and an Oscar winning Spider-Man film.

Nick Fury was actually black before Samual Jackson and there are actually two Nick Furys! There is the Original Nick Fury who was white and had a black son who lost his eye like his father and ran shield and then there is Nick Series from the ultimate universe who is black. The MCU Nick Fury is based on "Ultimate" version Nick Fury. I don't have a problem when they re-skin very minor/ non-mainstream characters like this bc from my understanding Ultimate Nick Fury is a completely different character in all but name.

But I have to disagree with you on re-skinning characters in general. It is a lazy way to be more diverse and I don't believe it will help a character to stick around at all if anything it causes severe backlash at time. Unless someone has stats that say other wise. But if they just re-skinned characters we would not have some of the best super-heroes like Black Panther, Myles Morales, Static Shock, John Stewart Green Lantern (The best Lantern!), Storm, Cyborg ect...

I hope you don't get to upset about this thread :ohwell: or my comments but I just feel its a terrible idea for to simply re-skin characters especially given how the comic industry relies so heavily on using the same characters. I think it will ultimate make the industry stagnant.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I am not against the re-skinning of characters in general, but I really do not like it when its done just for the sake of diversity, with the quality of the story being an afterthought.

Like its clear that one of the first things that came into the creator's minds when creating Rise April, was to make her black rather than focus on her personality first.

As a consequence, it feels like her character is not that well-written, and just comes off as obnoxious a lot of the time.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I am not against the re-skinning of characters in general, but I really do not like it when its done just for the sake of diversity, with the quality of the story being an afterthought.

I'm weird about this. Some race or gender swaps, I'm totally cool with.

Starbuck was a dude in original Battlestar Galactica, but she's a badass chick in nuBSG and I loved her. Pissed a lot of other people off, though.

If April or Casey go from Caucasian to African-American, I don't care. The characters could be anyone, because New York City is a huge melting pot of diversity.

Whereas, if Bruce Wayne ever got race-swapped? No thank you. Bruce Wayne is supposed to be privileged upper-crust 1% of the 1%. That's simply got to be whiter than Wonderbread. And I'd have a hard time wrapping my head around a black Superman.

Black Johnny Storm but white Sue Storm? Out of the ordinary, but I was willing to hear them out. Then the movie turned out to be an atrocity against all mankind.

It's a case by case basis, as far as I'm concerned.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't know jack about Starbuck, but I'm sure that you liked her first and foremost, because she was a badass rather than because she's a woman.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't know jack about Starbuck, but I'm sure that you liked her first and foremost, because she was a badass rather than because she's a woman.

It also helps that I never watched original BSG. :trazz:

[MikeandRaph87]

I am not against the re-skinning of characters in general, but I really do not like it when its done just for the sake of diversity, with the quality of the story being an afterthought.


Unfortunately nearly all race changes are done for the sake of diversity not to give the character new life. We need diversity in new characters not changing old characters race for the sake of changing their race. That includes not white replacements. Brand new characters in general. Nick Fury is one of the few that have worked out really well with a new take on an old character.

[Dejablue]

Nick Fury was actually black before Samual Jackson and there are actually two Nick Furys! There is the Original Nick Fury who was white and had a black son who lost his eye like his father and ran shield and then there is Nick Series from the ultimate universe who is black. The MCU Nick Fury is based on "Ultimate" version Nick Fury. I don't have a problem when they re-skin very minor/ non-mainstream characters like this bc from my understanding Ultimate Nick Fury is a completely different character in all but name.

But I have to disagree with you on re-skinning characters in general. It is a lazy way to be more diverse and I don't believe it will help a character to stick around at all if anything it causes severe backlash at time. Unless someone has stats that say other wise. But if they just re-skinned characters we would not have some of the best super-heroes like Black Panther, Myles Morales, Static Shock, John Stewart Green Lantern (The best Lantern!), Storm, Cyborg ect...

I hope you don't get to upset about this thread :ohwell: or my comments but I just feel its a terrible idea for to simply re-skin characters especially given how the comic industry relies so heavily on using the same characters. I think it will ultimate make the industry stagnant.

I have to ask tho, how beholden to race do characters have to be in a multiverse scenario? Since TMNT runs on one. And isn't that the whole point of the Spiderverse? Peter Parker is a spiderman out of infinite spidermans.

I want to reiterate that I'm confident April will be white in the majority of her appearances. But I find it disturbing that in a proven multiverse scenario like this, people get so angry about 1 race change. When the skin color is the least important thing about who they are, and on top of that, April is radically different iteration to iteration.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I have to ask tho, how beholden to race do characters have to be in a multiverse scenario? Since TMNT runs on one. And isn't that the whole point of the Spiderverse? Peter Parker is a spiderman out of infinite spidermans.

Even in your example though, there is no black Peter Parker. There's Miles Morales, who is a completely different and unique character. It also helps that the Spiderman identity is a legacy mantle, while April O'Neil is one specific person.

Personally, I think that characters should just be what they are. If they're white, make them white. If they're black, make them black. If Rise wanted more "diversity," they should have just used Angel, a prexisting black character who could have easily filled the niche they wanted to fill, rather than recoloring an existing character. Diversity, as it is typically thought of these days, shouldn't really be an issue. Rather than trying to check off all the boxes and make sure they have one of each group, storywriters should just write a story and let the characters be what they need to be.

[Dejablue]

Even in your example though, there is no black Peter Parker. There's Miles Morales, who is a completely different and unique character. It also helps that the Spiderman identity is a legacy mantle, while April O'Neil is one specific person.

Personally, I think that characters should just be what they are. If they're white, make them white. If they're black, make them black. If Rise wanted more "diversity," they should have just used Angel, a prexisting black character who could have easily filled the niche they wanted to fill, rather than recoloring an existing character. Diversity, as it is typically thought of these days, shouldn't really be an issue. Rather than trying to check off all the boxes and make sure they have one of each group, storywriters should just write a story and let the characters be what they need to be.

Well okay. Just let the characters be what they need to be. But what if a black April was a great character? Would you accept that? Like "Hey this version of April is pretty great." or "Gawd I'm so ****ing annoyed that she's not white."

[Zog The Magnificent]

If April in that show was a great character, I don't think it would be because she was black. Characters aren't great because they're a specific ethnicity, they're great and they happen to be a specific ethnicity. It's more just an issue of change for the sake of change. If you want to make her black, there should be a reason for it. By making her black in this case, it's a clear deviation from source material, and it's done for no other reason than because they wanted to be diverse. For this to be a justified change, they need to actually do something with it. As it is currently presented? I find it a bit annoying. But if she was black in this version because she and Angel were sisters, or because she was Baxter Stockman's niece or something, or if they wanted to tell some sort of story about the hardships that being part of an ethinc group can bring? That would be cool. But they aren't doing anything with here. Here, she's just black because they wanted to show off how diverse they are.

[Leo656]

I'm with CKD in that it's case-by-case, but I prefer things being left as they are.

There's exceptions, though. Laurence Fishburne was a great Perry White. I wasn't in love with the "stunt casting" ("A black guy named 'White'! Hilarious!") but he definitely did a good job. I'd honestly prefer that they keep him around at this point rather than recast it.

[Redeemer]

I have to ask tho, how beholden to race do characters have to be in a multiverse scenario? Since TMNT runs on one. And isn't that the whole point of the Spiderverse? Peter Parker is a spiderman out of infinite spidermans.

I want to reiterate that I'm confident April will be white in the majority of her appearances. But I find it disturbing that in a proven multiverse scenario like this, people get so angry about 1 race change. When the skin color is the least important thing about who they are, and on top of that, April is radically different iteration to iteration.

As Zog said in the Spider-verse there are other characters besides Peter-Parker who are spider-man. Such as Myles Morales or Gwen Stacey who is Spider-Gwen/Woman.

They are completely different characters with completely different stories and back grounds. They are essentially completely different universes and new stories. If they just simply re-skinned Peter-Parker and changed his ethnicity it would be the same character with just a different coloring which is boring and lazy.

Even in your example though, there is no black Peter Parker. There's Miles Morales, who is a completely different and unique character. It also helps that the Spiderman identity is a legacy mantle, while April O'Neil is one specific person.

Personally, I think that characters should just be what they are. If they're white, make them white. If they're black, make them black. If Rise wanted more "diversity," they should have just used Angel, a prexisting black character who could have easily filled the niche they wanted to fill, rather than recoloring an existing character. Diversity, as it is typically thought of these days, shouldn't really be an issue. Rather than trying to check off all the boxes and make sure they have one of each group, storywriters should just write a story and let the characters be what they need to be.

I pretty much agree with this.

[Dejablue]

If April in that show was a great character, I don't think it would be because she was black. Characters aren't great because they're a specific ethnicity, they're great and they happen to be a specific ethnicity. It's more just an issue of change for the sake of change. If you want to make her black, there should be a reason for it. By making her black in this case, it's a clear deviation from source material, and it's done for no other reason than because they wanted to be diverse. For this to be a justified change, they need to actually do something with it. As it is currently presented? I find it a bit annoying. But if she was black in this version because she and Angel were sisters, or because she was Baxter Stockman's niece or something, or if they wanted to tell some sort of story about the hardships that being part of an ethinc group can bring? That would be cool. But they aren't doing anything with here. Here, she's just black because they wanted to show off how diverse they are.

I assume you're talking about Rise. Rise April is not really a character. I understand what you mean.
But my question is, even if a character had a race change, like if she was related to Baxter...which is STILL a clear deviation from the source material by the by, would you accept that version of the character or would the race change be too much of a problem for you to accept?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I assume you're talking about Rise. Rise April is not really a character. I understand what you mean.
But my question is, even if a character had a race change, like if she was related to Baxter...which is STILL a clear deviation from the source material by the by, would you accept that version of the character or would the race change be too much of a problem for you to accept?

April being related to Baxter?

I actually really like that idea.

Making her black, so she's blood related to Baxter Stockman, would make for some interesting chemistry between the two, and open up a lot of story potential.

Unless this is a white Baxter like the Original Cartoon and then it would make more sense to make April white, but you get my point.

The race change being the byproduct of interesting story ideas, but not the main focus.

[Andrew NDB]

April being related to Baxter?

I actually really like that idea.

Making her black, so she's blood related to Baxter Stockman, would make for some interesting chemistry between the two, and open up a lot of story potential.

That is not only a great way of justifying the idea (making April black)... but yeah, opening up a whole lot of plot and character potential.

[pferreira]

I think new ethnicities should be new characters. Reskinning regulars seems pointless.I agree as well but this is 2019. Since when does common sense override forcing gender swaps and diversity? :roll:

I don't know jack about Starbuck, but I'm sure that you liked her first and foremost, because she was a badass rather than because she's a woman.Ron Moore made Starbuck a woman because of his SJW leanings. He gender and race swapped most people. The irony is in their enthusiasm to gender and race swap everybody they race swapped Tigh (a good black male character) to white. :lol:

The remake was a terrible show anyway.

Nick Fury is one of the few that have worked out really well with a new take on an old character.Totally agree!

[sdp]

Baxter and April have always had a relationship so her being Baxters daughter would've been cool. That's why I used to shitpost about it before Rise came out for a couple of weeks and have meme magic make it work but it didn't ;(

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Baxter and April have always had a relationship so her being Baxters daughter would've been cool. That's why I used to shitpost about it before Rise came out for a couple of weeks and have meme magic make it work but it didn't ;(

But what if....

Baxter Stockboy is April's Son!!!????

Come on sdp, its time to use your meme magic again.

[IndigoErth]

So then we're going with the whole teen pregnancy angle on Nick..? Huh.


What if in 'Rise' he's -- mind blowing and faux dramatic unexpected twist! -- her little cousin?

[Prowler]

One day we'll have a version where April and Casey are long lost siblings.

[Redeemer]

Baxter and April have always had a relationship so her being Baxters daughter would've been cool. That's why I used to shitpost about it before Rise came out for a couple of weeks and have meme magic make it work but it didn't ;(

That actually sounds pretty interesting. It would also make sense narratively to change her race/ethnicity or at least make her bi-racial.

[victory_angel]

One day we'll have a version where April and Casey are long lost siblings.

Maybe halfsiblings...

[FredWolfLeonardo]

One day we'll have a version where April and Casey are long lost siblings.

And then become romantically involved anyway :lol:

[Leo656]

And then become romantically involved anyway :lol:

"So where's this family farm of yours, anyway? Massachusetts?"
"No, Kentucky."
:tlol::tlol::tlol:

[Prowler]

Maybe halfsiblings...

And then become romantically involved anyway :lol:

I'm pretty sure there's been some anime with this kind of plot before...

[FredWolfLeonardo]

"So where's this family farm of yours, anyway? Massachusetts?"
"No, Kentucky."
:tlol::tlol::tlol:

Bring on the redneck Capril!

This is the diversity which tmnt needs.

[IndigoErth]

You all ain't right.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0dcd3033a8ecaa55e41c93f9843ea2f3/tenor.gif

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You all ain't right.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0dcd3033a8ecaa55e41c93f9843ea2f3/tenor.gif

Every day we stray further from God's light.

[victory_angel]

I'm pretty sure there's been some anime with this kind of plot before...

And there are plenty of sibling-cest anime out there as well, all of which is better off unwatched due to how vomit-inducing it could get.

It also gets worse from there.

What I mean by them being half-siblings is that April's dad and mom could have had a divorce sometime after April was born. April was left with her dad, while her mother marries a man named Jones and has Casey. So the two would grow up never knowing they are siblings.


This can also be reversed such as April's mom having Jones first, and then marrying O'Neil.

The same could be true with Mr. O'Neil in that he had a relationship with another woman before or after April's mom.

But this also could bring up the suggestion of April being adopted. So she was raised by the O'Neil family never knowing that she had another family and brother out there.

[BartAllen]

Speaking as someone that has both black and Irish ancestry: Put me in the 'who cares' column. I just want an entertaining character.

[pferreira]

Maybe halfsiblings...https://66.media.tumblr.com/f5928aa4e8489c4d3ea788f46fdd887a/tumblr_okwr187yL71vual34o5_250.gif

[Vintage]

Hold up, what was Aprils ethnicity in the first place? I think that a shows/movies success is pretty independent of the change of color of a cast or a particular character, if the character(s) are good actor(s) and/or the overall story is good.

[Andrew NDB]

Hold up, what was Aprils ethnicity in the first place?

Who even knows. Assumedly there is an Irish immigrant in her past... beyond that, who knows. That's never really been important to me in 3 decades of stuff, whether Mirage or Archie or whatnot.

[sdp]

Any chance rise april could have been Baxter's daughter?

[oldmanwinters]

Any chance rise april could have been Baxter's daughter?

Considering the show included Baxter as a child younger than April... inconceivable. Unless "Stockboy" is the Baxter Jr. of the family.

[Luckyday]

If she doesn't have any unique trait that is connected to her race and sex other then being "a human ally to the turtles that helps them in certain situations but slowly becomes part of their family".

You can do that with literally anybody over the course of the story.

Why not just create a new human character or re-use any of the humans characters that we have already at our disposal?

Like Keno from the TMNT II. It can be like a ET situation where he is like their kid brother or something.

If fans really want to keep her a straight white woman with red hair then do something with it.

Anything except what 2012 Nick has done.

But seriously just make a new character and just throw April in there if anybody start complaining.

[PizzaPower1985]

I would be okay if she was suddenly made black or even Latina in a serious dark, adult-friendly incarnation. I still think the Mirage books got her perfect.

Skin color doesnt really matter to me... April's cultural references and preferences will be far more important to me going forward!