Post Endgame MCU Predictions

[Jester]

So I figured I'd start a thread where we could post predictions as to what will happen in the MCU now that Endgame is in the theaters. Please maintain spoiler tags just to be safe. If your prediction has nothing to do with Endgame then don't worry about it.

I really wonder if the MCU will introduce Galactus or at least his Herald in one of the cosmic Marvel movies either the sequel to Captain Marvel or Guardians 3. I could really see a post credit scene where you zoom in on a planet that welcomes with open arms somebody that is revealed to be Silver Surfer.

[AquaParade]

SO many possibilities. I'm really excited. As much as I love what they've done so far, especially "Phase 3", I think it feels liberating to know that we are done with the Infinity Stones, as well as in a place where Marvel Studio's is feeling 100% confident in their decisions.

I want to see them play with tone even more. I want to see things become goofier in places, and more mature in others. There are so many characters now, that I welcome the idea of guest-characters popping up in "solo films".

I hope they are able to expand on Spider-Man, X-Men, and all the other characters they just received back, without too long of a wait.

Most of all, I want to feel a sense of legacy. While I'm glad to move on from the movies focusing on the original six, I'd like to see reverence for them, as well as traces and ripples of their actions. New versions of some of our favorite characters, and mantles being passed down, is something that really excites me. A bit of new mixed with a bit of old for the new Avengers team.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It does seem like we won't be seeing movies for ANY of the Big 6 going forward.

Except maybe Thor and Hulk.It also feels really weird that Wanda Maximoff is getting shunted off to TV instead of finally getting more than 10 minutes of cinematic screentime.

I predict the time travel logic plot holes (I think that's safe to no-spoiler) don't get addressed in any movies. It's all just handwaved.

Seems like the NEW Big 6 will be...

Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, and a couple of new crew...

(And maybe Hulk.)I don't see Ant-Man and Wasp making the Avengers cut on a regular basis. And I don't see the Guardians of the Galaxy popping up again after GotG3.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Additional thought: I'm curious how the MCU will fare in the period between introducing the X-Men and Fantastic Four, and closing out Phase 3 with Endgame.

So many fan-favorite characters are being shunted to TV (possibly to explore their stories, but also I suspect because the powers that be aren't interested in giving them movies and don't believe they'd be a big enough box-office draw)... Scarlet Witch, Vision, Bucky, Falcon, Hawkeye...

I think franchises for successful characters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange and Spider-Man will do well, but is this the point where viewer fatigue FINALLY sets in? Do we really care about Eternals and Shang-Chi? Can the trailers and casting make us care?

Or are most viewers just waiting to hear who will be cast for Cyclops, Rogue, Jean Gray, Kitty Pryde, Storm, and Wolverine in five years?

Also, eventually, Sony is gonna derail the MCU Spidey. It's inevitable. :tgrin:

[AquaParade]

Aside from my initial desires, I have a slight curveball...

If the Sony-Marvel deal continues, I think there is potential for Spider-Man's adventures to continue in a Disney+ show. With the budget some of these shows will be getting, it has become quite exciting to imagine a serialized, live-action Spider-Man television show. Sony may even like the idea of having the theater-space to themselves when it comes to Spider-Man.

[ZariusTwo]

If the Sony-Marvel deal continues, I think there is potential for Spider-Man's adventures to continue in a Disney+ show


Well...

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/phil-lord-chris-miller-overall-deal-sony-pictures-television-1203200197/

They'll need a platform

[Andrew NDB]

END OF PHASE 3:

* Spider-Man: Far From Home: I don't expect anything special at all from this, particularly any Fantastic Four/X-Men stuff. Mostly because it's Sony and Spider-Man is a leased thing and if there's any surprise "stingers," it would most likely only be of benefit to the Spider-Verse (the upcoming "Morbius" movie, "Venom 2," etc.).

PHASE 4:

* Black Widow: As a prequel probably set in the early 2000s, it's got an opportunity to have her cross paths with random mutants (good or bad). Also, it'll reveal that she's A-OK in the end on Vormir.

* Black Panther 2: We'll see some mutants in this for sure. Maybe even something about adamantium. This could even be where Wolverine is introduced! Imagine a big Black Panther vs. Wolverine fight, vibranium vs. adamantium.

* The Eternals: DEFINITELY something about Galactus in this. He may not be the focus or anything, but we'll get a reveal or see his story, to be sure.

* Dr. Strange 2: I'm thinking that Gamora somehow crosses paths with Strange, and Strange merges her consciousness that's trapped in the dimension of the Soul Stone with the body of her past self that's still here in the present after Endgame. Beyond that, jeeze... maybe Dr. Strange meets Charles Xavier? Maybe Dr. Doom?

* Guardians of the Galaxy 3: Cosmic stuff... which means at least some kind of Galactus/Silver Surfer reveal. Now, we know Gunn's script was written before the Marvel/Fox acquisition was final, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be tweaked this way or that. Thor will be along for the ride... I guess?

* Shang-Chi: No clue. I don't even know who that is. Possibilities for him to clash with mutants, though. Lady Deathstrike or someone.

* Ant-Man 3: Just speculation, but it sure would be neat to see Scott and Hank and all working with/teaming with Reed Richards on something. Ant-Man seems like the most organic way to gently introduce the F4 family.

* Captain Marvel 2: You know it's coming. Maybe set in between CM1 and Endgame. Obvious potential with her encountering mutants OR something more in the vein of the Silver Surfer/Galactus, given her power level.

Those are the movies we know are coming. Phase 3 has 11 movies, so that still leaves about 3 movies we don't know about for Phase 4. What could they be?

1) Some kind of all-female Avengers movie: Ever since what's her face from Ragnarok made a big what-to-do about this with all the other female Marvel actresses after Ragnarok came out (and especially after seeing the cringeworthy, random "Women Marvel Characters UNITE!" moment in Endgame) this seems like a sure thing. I don't know what I'd expect in it. Probably a lot of social justice and toxic masculinity being smacked down.

2) A new Blade movie. Maybe? There's rumblings about this every once and again. The idea of Wesley coming back to play a legacy Blade to a new Blade isn't a bad one. Also, if Morbius does good over at Sony, they could import him into this.

And lastly... by about the end of Phase 4 (if it follows the same architecture as Phase 3) we will be about at the end of the 4, 5 year mark (which is when Feige said is the earliest we could expect X-Men/F4 movies)...

3) Avengers vs. X-Men: It'll be the big debut of the X-Men, running afoul of the Avengers. You know the kind of story. Big fight between them, common enemy will show up, everyone will become best friends.


Then, Phase 5, we'll start to get the BIG movies. "The Uncanny X-Men," "The Fantastic Four," "Silver Surfer," "Wolverine," etc..

[AquaParade]

If anything, Far From Home’s stinger will tease future MCU projects. It won’t be a Sony Spider-Man film.

It is interesting to consider whether it could be for a “Fox property”, but I doubt it because I think they have other priorities that were already in place. Same reason we didn’t see a teaser for those properties in Endgame.

[Andrew NDB]

If anything, Far From Home’s stinger will tease future MCU projects. It won’t be a Sony Spider-Man film.

But the first movie's stinger didn't tease any future MCU projects... it teased "Sinister Six," which Sony has been trying to get off the ground forever. I don't see them changing gears in 2.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

But the first movie's stinger didn't tease any future MCU projects... it teased "Sinister Six," which Sony has been trying to get off the ground forever. I don't see them changing gears in 2.

Same. Sony's gonna keep plugging Sinister Six until it happens (and crashes and burns).

END OF PHASE 3:

* Spider-Man: Far From Home: I don't expect anything special at all from this, particularly any Fantastic Four/X-Men stuff. Mostly because it's Sony and Spider-Man is a leased thing and if there's any surprise "stingers," it would most likely only be of benefit to the Spider-Verse (the upcoming "Morbius" movie, "Venom 2," etc.).

PHASE 4:

* Black Widow: As a prequel probably set in the early 2000s, it's got an opportunity to have her cross paths with random mutants (good or bad). Also, it'll reveal that she's A-OK in the end on Vormir.

* Black Panther 2: We'll see some mutants in this for sure. Maybe even something about adamantium. This could even be where Wolverine is introduced! Imagine a big Black Panther vs. Wolverine fight, vibranium vs. adamantium.

* The Eternals: DEFINITELY something about Galactus in this. He may not be the focus or anything, but we'll get a reveal or see his story, to be sure.

* Dr. Strange 2: I'm thinking that Gamora somehow crosses paths with Strange, and Strange merges her consciousness that's trapped in the dimension of the Soul Stone with the body of her past self that's still here in the present after Endgame. Beyond that, jeeze... maybe Dr. Strange meets Charles Xavier? Maybe Dr. Doom?

* Guardians of the Galaxy 3: Cosmic stuff... which means at least some kind of Galactus/Silver Surfer reveal. Now, we know Gunn's script was written before the Marvel/Fox acquisition was final, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be tweaked this way or that. Thor will be along for the ride... I guess?

* Shang-Chi: No clue. I don't even know who that is. Possibilities for him to clash with mutants, though. Lady Deathstrike or someone.

* Ant-Man 3: Just speculation, but it sure would be neat to see Scott and Hank and all working with/teaming with Reed Richards on something. Ant-Man seems like the most organic way to gently introduce the F4 family.

* Captain Marvel 2: You know it's coming. Maybe set in between CM1 and Endgame. Obvious potential with her encountering mutants OR something more in the vein of the Silver Surfer/Galactus, given her power level.

Those are the movies we know are coming. Phase 3 has 11 movies, so that still leaves about 3 movies we don't know about for Phase 4. What could they be?

1) Some kind of all-female Avengers movie: Ever since what's her face from Ragnarok made a big what-to-do about this with all the other female Marvel actresses after Ragnarok came out (and especially after seeing the cringeworthy, random "Women Marvel Characters UNITE!" moment in Endgame) this seems like a sure thing. I don't know what I'd expect in it. Probably a lot of social justice and toxic masculinity being smacked down.

2) A new Blade movie. Maybe? There's rumblings about this every once and again. The idea of Wesley coming back to play a legacy Blade to a new Blade isn't a bad one. Also, if Morbius does good over at Sony, they could import him into this.

And lastly... by about the end of Phase 4 (if it follows the same architecture as Phase 3) we will be about at the end of the 4, 5 year mark (which is when Feige said is the earliest we could expect X-Men/F4 movies)...

3) Avengers vs. X-Men: It'll be the big debut of the X-Men, running afoul of the Avengers. You know the kind of story. Big fight between them, common enemy will show up, everyone will become best friends.


Then, Phase 5, we'll start to get the BIG movies. "The Uncanny X-Men," "The Fantastic Four," "Silver Surfer," "Wolverine," etc..

I actually really disagree with most of your theories, even though I like them. :tlol: No mutants, no Fantastic Four. I think Phase 4 will, for the most part, be standalone. No main connective tissue between movies, no building threat until the last or second-to-last movie.

Also, I fully believe Black Widow will stay dead. Much as we'll miss her.

Guardians of the Galaxy 3, I think Thor might not even be around for. Instead, Valkryie calls him first to help with Thor 4, only because we know Wahiti wants to do Thor 4. And so Thor is absent by the time GotG3 rolls around.

Doctor Strange 2, no Gamora. Just Nightmare and Baron Mordo.

The Eternals, though, I think your theory could definitely happen. The Galactus tease you and I were expecting WILL eventually happen.

At the moment, my expectation is Kang the Conqueror for Avengers 5, due to Avengers 4 time-travel fallout or it attracted his attention or something. And then Galactus or Avengers vs X-Men for Avengers 6. Unless Avengers vs X-Men ends up not ACTUALLY an Avengers movie, like Captain America: Civil War was an Avengers movie in all but name.

[AquaParade]

But the first movie's stinger didn't tease any future MCU projects... it teased "Sinister Six," which Sony has been trying to get off the ground forever. I don't see them changing gears in 2.

Okay, I see where you are coming from now, but I don’t think those are the same “Sinister Six” that Sony has been talking about doing. That would imply that Michael Keaton is in both a Marvel and Sony film.
We don’t think Marvel wants Sony getting tangled up in their universe, right? I do think Sony wants that but I do not think it was part of the contract.

Well...

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/phil-lord-chris-miller-overall-deal-sony-pictures-television-1203200197/

They'll need a platform

Holy...

[Andrew NDB]

I actually really disagree with most of your theories, even though I like them. No mutants, no Fantastic Four. I think Phase 4 will, for the most part, be standalone. No main connective tissue between movies, no building threat until the last or second-to-last movie.

You don't think we'll see X-Men and Fantastic Four characters seeded into the foreseeable movies? Just all of them all at once, at the end of the phase?

Okay, I see where you are coming from now, but I don’t think those are the same “Sinister Six” that Sony has been talking about doing. That would imply that Michael Keaton is in both a Marvel and Sony film.

He was. But no, that's not the exact same "Sinister Six" movie they were trying to make during the Garfield days, but some version of it has always been on their agenda.

We don’t think Marvel wants Sony getting tangled up in their universe, right? I do think Sony wants that but I do not think it was part of the contract.

Pretty sure Sony still gets to do anything they want with Spider-Man characters in their own movies at Sony, even if they first appear in an MCU movie proper.

[AquaParade]

He was. But no, that's not the exact same "Sinister Six" movie they were trying to make during the Garfield days, but some version of it has always been on their agenda.



Pretty sure Sony still gets to do anything they want with Spider-Man characters in their own movies, even if they first appear in an MCU movie proper.

I’m just going to guarantee you that Sony and Marvel are operating in very separate universes. Michael Keaton is not being set up for a Sony-helmed Sinister Six film. Pinky promise.

Since we can’t peek at that contract, I guess we will just have to wait and see though.

I’m pretty sure the context is out there if you find the right interviews though.

[Andrew NDB]

I’m just going to guarantee you that Sony and Marvel are operating in very separate universes.

I'm sure if you ask anyone at Marvel (i.e., Feige) he would say that you're right. If you were to ask anyone at Sony (i.e., Pascal) she would say that you're wrong, that it's all one.

The truth is, they're both right. Marvel CAN integrate stuff they create in their Sony Spider-verse (i.e., Venom)... they just don't want to, yet. They may never. In the other direction, as I said, pretty sure Sony CAN use the Spider-Man-based characters (i.e., ones derived from Spider-Man comics that Sony would own the rights to... obviously Sony can't put Rocket Raccoon in a solo Sony movie, but they can certainly use Vulture) that appear in Marvel Studios movies in Sony-based movies. It just hasn't really come up yet.

And it makes sense. Sony just making profits off the 1 Spider-Man movie that gets put out every 2 years through Marvel Studios isn't really a good enough deal to make their partnership with Marvel Studios justifiable, fiscally. It had to be, Sony: "You can use Spider-Man and Spider-Man characters if you run it by us first during our contract... but meanwhile, we can pump out whatever side Spider-Man character-related movie on our side we want."

Michael Keaton is not being set up for a Sony-helmed Sinister Six film. Pinky promise.

Since we can’t peek at that contract, I guess we will just have to wait and see though.

I'd almost be willing to take that bet, however there's still good reason to believe Sony will fumble the bar and the "Sinister Six" movie will never even end up happening... making the whole thing moot.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You don't think we'll see X-Men and Fantastic Four characters seeded into the foreseeable movies? Just all of them all at once, at the end of the phase?

No, not all at once. I think the first movies are going to be pretty light on Fox-property hints. If Marvel had to hold off on even a Galactus end credits scene (unless it was a deliberate choice not to tease ANY future movie at the end of Endgame), I don't see them being ready to cast a mutant or a Doctor Doom or somebody for, say, Black Widow or Black Panther 2.

My gut is Phase 4 is going to feel like Phase 1 again; less grandiose. Not establishing the pending big EVENTS, just establishing some characters. And finishing off a couple of series, like Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man.

I say, Marvel cracks open the Fox box by first having a villain that can be done without the X-Men or Fantastic Four. Galactus and Silver Surfer don't HAVE to have the Fantastic Four, right?

Anyway, that's my thinking. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

We may have ALREADY seen a tease for the next phase, right under our collective noses. I'll give you all a hint- DC's version did "swimmingly", at least for a week or so. Yes, it's who you think it is. Remember the beginning of Endgame, when

Natasha and Steve were still getting intel on who was missing after the snap? There was a conference call that discussed, among other things, a huge earthquake UNDER THE OCEAN. Right after the second snap. Remember folks, Earth isn't JUST home to normal "surface-dwellers"!!

If my theory is right, we are already being shown hints of who/what is to come. One of them is probably really ticked that half his kingdom got obliterated by meddling outsiders....

[AquaParade]

We may have ALREADY seen a tease for the next phase, right under our collective noses. I'll give you all a hint- DC's version did "swimmingly", at least for a week or so. Yes, it's who you think it is. Remember the beginning of Endgame, when

Natasha and Steve were still getting intel on who was missing after the snap? There was a conference call that discussed, among other things, a huge earthquake UNDER THE OCEAN. Right after the second snap. Remember folks, Earth isn't JUST home to normal "surface-dwellers"!!

If my theory is right, we are already being shown hints of who/what is to come. One of them is probably really ticked that half his kingdom got obliterated by meddling outsiders....

Ya know, that is just the type of ambiguous tease that the MCU loves. A little something to get us thinking without backing themselves into any corners. Something they can choose to play off or ignore.

[Andrew NDB]

Ya know, that is just the type of ambiguous tease that the MCU loves. A little something to get us thinking without backing themselves into any corners. Something they can choose to play off or ignore.

Like how the little boy in Iron Man 2 was "always" Peter Parker?

[Leo656]

I don't like to predict things. I'll just say that the only thing I actually care about from Marvel is what they eventually do with the X-Men.

The series that's about to end was always a case of, "Decent-To-Great Action Movies, but terrible 'X-Men Movies'." They don't represent the characters or the universe properly at all. Everyone is "In Name Only", and they're terrified of costumes. I feel like the two "X-Men Legends" video games do a much better job of helping neophytes like myself understand the X-Men universe than any of the movies have. And, unlike the movies, they're not all mostly "Wolverine and These Other Guys".

The Marvel films sometimes have gone way, WAY off-base with how certain characters were portrayed versus how they're "supposed to be", but in other places they've skewed extremely faithful. I am curious to see their take on the X-Men material. We've seen a lot of things from Marvel and other studios ever since the first Spider-Man film, but we still haven't seen a "proper" X-Men movie, really. And although I barely care, I will say that I feel it's deserved, and would definitely be something to see.

I don't much care for Marvel movies, but a "proper" X-Men film would be something I would pay to see, just because it still hasn't been done. I want costumes, I want to see the characters and their motivations represented properly. I want everyone to be on the correct side - no "Mystique gets to be the Star and a Big Hero because Hunger Games was hot for 5 minutes". I'd like to see more than just Magneto as a villain.

I can't predict anything, but I know what I would like to eventually see. Unfortunately it sounds like it's a long way off.

[AquaParade]

Like how the little boy in Iron Man 2 was "always" Peter Parker?

Really didn’t like that, but yes, sort of in that vein. That was was more of an awkward retrofit though.

Also, I think they had a line about “a guy who can crawl on walls” or something similar, before he appeared.

[sdp]

This twitter (https://mobile.twitter.com/RogerWardell) account posted End Game spoilers back in early December as well as what was going to happen post Phase 3.

If he's to be believed and not "got lucky with very specific details" what would happen at End game is:

-Thunderbolt trilogy: Cast (Zemo, Ghost, Justin Hammer, General Ross, and the Abomimation)
-Villian is The leader (incredible hulk villian tease)
- Ms. Marvel and power pack suppose to have films or several seasons on Disney+ still talking about it
-The black knight is being considered for a new avenger and have films based around him.

That'd be kind of cool, Hulk as his own character kind of got shafted when The Incredible Hulk wasn't the hit that the other solo movies were in the first phase and I'd love to see Betty Ross again.

But yeah I'd say we're minimum 3 years away from seeing Fantastic Four and X-Men in the MCU. I also wonder many people say it's the end of an Era and while fans will stick to it, I'd say a lot of the casual audience is not going to be returning for future films, to them they had their "pay off" and it's the casual audience that has made these superhero films become what they've become.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This twitter (https://mobile.twitter.com/RogerWardell) account posted End Game spoilers back in early December as well as what was going to happen post Phase 3.

If he's to be believed and not "got lucky with very specific details" what would happen at End game is:

-Thunderbolt trilogy: Cast (Zemo, Ghost, Justin Hammer, General Ross, and the Abomimation)
-Villian is The leader (incredible hulk villian tease)
- Ms. Marvel and power pack suppose to have films or several seasons on Disney+ still talking about it
-The black knight is being considered for a new avenger and have films based around him.

That'd be kind of cool, Hulk as his own character kind of got shafted when The Incredible Hulk wasn't the hit that the other solo movies were in the first phase and I'd love to see Betty Ross again.

But yeah I'd say we're minimum 3 years away from seeing Fantastic Four and X-Men in the MCU. I also wonder many people say it's the end of an Era and while fans will stick to it, I'd say a lot of the casual audience is not going to be returning for future films, to them they had their "pay off" and it's the casual audience that has made these superhero films become what they've become.

Thunderbolts could work. I'd be happy with that. Especially more Ghost.

He did nail quite a bit of stuff back in December, didn't he? Impressive.

And yeah, you see the situation the way I do... it's gonna be awhile for Fox characters. And I've wondered if casuals might leave the MCU in trickles, given that it's "over" now. Except for Spiderman and Black Panther, which are going to continue to be major hits. Probably Captain Marvel too...

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Given some of the hints we've seen, including some "fake?" logo teases of Avengers 4, I'd say that the FF may be closer to an intro than we realize. Marvel/Disney has been chomping at the bit to get the rights back for them, especially after the most recent, failed movie. They are also anxious to use many of their villains, particularly Galactus and the Surfer. Namor, too, if some rumors about a solo movie are to be believed. If memory serves, I believe there was even an Easter egg for Reed hidden in a scene waaay back when Fury was recruiting for the team, along with a few others. And with Captain (still Ms to me) Marvel now in the MCU, Rogue and the other X-Men can't be far behind either, if they stay true to her story arc.

[Andrew NDB]

Marvel/Disney has been chomping at the bit to get the rights back for them, especially after the most recent, failed movie. They are also anxious to use many of their villains, particularly Galactus and the Surfer.

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

That's one of the reasons I think we don't see Fantastic Four or X-Men anytime soon (ie before Phase 5 or the next event movie). They obviously had a desire and a tentative idea how they could do Galactus without the Richards family.

[Andrew NDB]

That's one of the reasons I think we don't see Fantastic Four or X-Men anytime soon (ie before Phase 5 or the next event movie). They obviously had a desire and a tentative idea how they could do Galactus without the Richards family.

Though I think they knew it was a case of what they had to barter with at that particular time. Daredevil... Surfer and Galactus? Not quite equal, but wtf would Fox do with any of those two in 2012? Apparently nothing, not even in the reboot that failed. Though Fox almost did actually do a Daredevil reboot on their own when the clock on rights was running out, which I think is what Marvel was hedging their bets on. Marvel figured Galactus and Surfer was what they could have realistically gotten out of the offer, given the timetable and what was at stake... asking for more wouldn't have been feasible, even if they'd wanted to. Though as you say... the fact that they offered at all means that they had a plan right there and then for how to integrate JUST Surfer and Galactus.

If it was like... we'll give you the f***in' Punisher... then it'd be more like, "OK, we gonna need Dr. Doom. And Galactus. And Surfer. Sorry."

[Leo656]

Plus, of exactly what value is the Fantastic 4 to the MCU, at this point, three bad movies in? Outside of this forum, I've never, ever heard anyone say "What I really wanna see is another Fantastic 4 movie", not once. I'd argue that the first one was as close as anyone could get to doing a "proper" F4 adaptation - despite the mediocre execution of Dr. Doom - and it just wasn't very good. And even Doom wasn't terrible, but the movie pretty much was.

Frankly, I think the material is too campy. And when they try to play it more "straight", you end up with Fant4stic, which was awful for entirely different reasons. Again, the original movie didn't do a whole lot "wrong", it actually did a very faithful translation of the material, one of the most faithful comic book adaptations ever, really... but that just doesn't add up to a compelling film. A few different actors would have helped, probably... but I don't think that would have saved it. It's all just too silly.

I know they have their fans, but I think the F4 needs the MCU far more than the MCU needs the F4. I don't think that specific "brand" has much value to the MCU right now. They definitely need Dr. Doom and Galactus, because they've always struggled to present compelling villains, but I have a feeling that they'd much prefer to introduce them as "Marvel Villains" in the broader sense rather than "Fantastic 4 Villains"; meaning, they could probably introduce them into the MCU without referencing the F4 at all, and most people probably wouldn't cry about it. Same with Silver Surfer, who isn't really a villain anyway; they obviously would love to include him somewhere, but they don't need the F4 for that. He could easily show up as part of one of the Guardians movies, for example.

I just don't see how they could do a "proper" F4 movie without simply re-making the first one note-for-note with a better Dr. Doom. Again, that movie was extremely faithful... it just didn't add up to much. So I really don't see any way of improving on the formula beyond very minimal tweaks to the cast and script.

I know, I know... "Family", "Heart", yadda yadda... those themes can be and have been explored to a satisfactory degree in other movies, ones with much more interesting protagonists. I don't think too many people are salivating for a new F4. In fact, I pretty much promise that if they announce a new F4 movie before a new X-Men one, a lot of people are gonna be pretty pissed off. Everyone's curious to see what's next for Wolverine; nobody really cares who the next Reed Richards is. Sounds harsh, but it is what it is.

It's pretty obvious to me that Marvel/Disney just want Doom and Galactus. And if they can integrate them in a satisfactory way without bothering with the F4, they most likely will.

Not trying to be disrespectful, since I know they do have some passionate fans, just calling it like I see it. The F4 brand has not historically done well outside of comic books, as even their cartoon shows have been pretty bad and were cancelled quickly. I'm not convinced enough people really care. I simply can't see the studio being interested in all the work it would take to erase the stink of the past few films. It's a tainted brand.

But stranger things have happened. I guess we'll see.

[Andrew NDB]

Disagree. While Galactus and Silver Surfer are super important to Marvel and they could easily build a whole Phase around just that, easily (it's really, really not hard to imagine a whole Phase built around "Uh oh... here comes Galactus!" in the same way we went "holy sh**!" when Thanos showed up at the end of A1)... they know the value of a proper F4. They'll give us something like a more "grown up" Incredibles. But it'll be earned, and seeded throughout X projects first before the big debut.

And I've heard tons of people clamoring for a new, proper F4 movie outside of here. Granted, it's stifled by "well we've already gotten two horrible ones!" But that doesn't change the wish.

[Jester]

I hope if they do Fantastic Four, they get Terry Crews as Thing.

[Leo656]

Well, we probably travel in much different circles, so I can't argue it. I can only call what I see from Over Here.

I do know a few people who kind of liked the first movie, but I've never heard anyone tell me personally that they were thirsty for more. Especially after the second one. And then... well, we don't need to keep mentioning the last one, do we? :trazz:

And again, what exactly would be "proper"? The first movie was "proper" in all the important ways (and Doom could have easily been amped up to be a bigger threat in a better sequel than the sequel they actually made; it wasn't a bad approach for his debut film, though).

If it's going to be "proper" in the same way Spider-Man: Homecoming was "proper" - change literally everything except the costumes and cram it full of MCU connective tissue and even more corny jokes - then I'd say No Thanks.

Like it or not, the first F4 was more or less "perfect" as a translation of the material. I'd simply argue that the material doesn't lend itself to film as well as many of the other characters/stories. It wasn't a great movie, but it told the story from the books properly and faithfully. I can't see them giving it another go without making tons and tons of deviations on account of "Well, that's been done already so we HAVE to make tons of pointless changes that do more harm than good", kinda like Amazing Spider-Man did. Everything that film did to be "different" from the Raimi movie actively made the movie worse than it would have been if they'd done a copy/paste. I can't see things going much differently. Pointless Changes Are Pointless, and stick out like a sore thumb to people who actually know the stories and want to see them retold faithfully.

And you're right, they probably will go that route, but I HATE when they do that kinda thing, and it's why I've skipped more than half of these things to begin with.

I'unno, we'll see. I definitely, definitely think that far more people would rather see the X-Men reboot first, though. That's gotta be a statistical fact.

[sdp]

Fantastic Four are amazing, they're explorers but unless written well they can be lame superheroes so yeah they have potential and I think Marvel Studios could be the ones who pull it off despite the previous moves souring people on the franchise. They really don't need an origin film, do it like they did with Hulk where you get flashbacks to the origins but they're having their own adventure already.

It'll be difficult to make Dr. Doom a villain people care about after his last movies but he's Avengers 5 villain material if written correctly and no doubt can they have a ton of movies just dealing with the Surfer and other space heralds and shenanigans, hell I'd some real space adventures F4 movies. Too bad that they'll likely want to start from scratch with X-Men and the whole anti-mutant storylines Fox already did (even if badly), I'd love some space adventures X-Men and make this whole Phase 4-6 a Cosmic Marvel thing but we'll see, I think it might be too geeky for casual Marvel fans.

[AquaParade]

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

This is a fascinating piece of the puzzle that I was unaware of. Thanks for linking the article.

I'd just say that one thing to keep in mind is, I believe this is back when Kevin Feige was still reporting to Ike Perlmutter, who had the a lot of final say in the MCU at the time. He was the one who pushed for the Inhumans film and eventually took it to the television side, once Kevin was able to get out from under his shadow. He's also known for supposedly standing in the way of the Black Widow and Captain Marvel films. I say all this, just to give context to his former part in the company.

So they could have been plans of Ike's. Equally possible that it's Kevin who had plans for these characters, of course.

Oh, and...poor DD. Tossed around like chopped liver. Glad he was returned to Marvel and blessed with the Netflix show, after all.

[AquaParade]

Hey, I had a quick thought and wanted to see what ya'll think...

What if Endgame having no post-credit scene could be a bigger statement than we realize?
What if Homecoming has no post-credit scene?

We all know the MCU is straddling this nebulous line between Endgame being a finale, while the MCU matches forward with some of the same characters and plotlines that have already been established.

Well, maybe one way they plan to differentiate themselves is to end the trend of post-credit scenes, which could mark the start of something new, while simultaneously sending the message that, "hey, we are allowing ourselves a bit more freedom now. Not everything has to be 100% connected in order to build a cohesive universe."

Just a thought.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it. I find the post-credit scenes to be largely disappointing, and even counterintuitive to the idea that we are being given a complete story. I won't mind if they hang around. I know some people consider them an important signature of the MCU, but I see it as an interesting and bold way to put a line in the sand.

thanks for reading.

[Andrew NDB]

Hey, I had a quick thought and wanted to see what ya'll think...

What if Endgame having no post-credit scene could be a bigger statement than we realize?
What if Homecoming has no post-credit scene?

We all know the MCU is straddling this nebulous line between Endgame being a finale, while the MCU matches forward with some of the same characters and plotlines that have already been established.

Well, maybe one way they plan to differentiate themselves is to end the trend of post-credit scenes, which could mark the start of something new, while simultaneously sending the message that, "hey, we are allowing ourselves a bit more freedom now. Not everything has to be 100% connected in order to build a cohesive universe."

Just a thought.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it. I find the post-credit scenes to be largely disappointing, and even counterintuitive to the idea that we are being given a complete story. I won't mind if they hang around. I know some people consider them an important signature of the MCU, but I see it as an interesting and bold way to put a line in the sand.

thanks for reading.

I like the end credit stuff in that it basically forces people to watch... end credits. In that... you know... the people who made the movie get "seen." And there's been some big MCU whoppers here and there. More often than not it's a bit lame, though. It seems like they'd settled on the END credits scene being something dumb and funny, but the MID end credits scene being something pivotal. That appears to be the formula.

[Utrommaniac]

Well, the most obvious one is Thor losing his beer gut the next time we see him :lol: .

Now, I'm not too well-versed on Marvel lore as a whole, but I can see where Galactus would make sense from what I know of him. (He should be able to top Thanos as a threat, anyway?) If they can't get a hold of him due to legal stuff, provided Disney doesn't do what it's been doing best as of late, I wouldn't have a clue on who could possibly top Thanos' game.

[Andrew NDB]

Galactus would make sense from what I know of him. (He should be able to top Thanos as a threat, anyway?) If they can't get a hold of him due to legal stuff, provided Disney doesn't do what it's been doing best as of late, I wouldn't have a clue on who could possibly top Thanos' game.

Disney has owned Galactus since the moment the Fox deal was finalized 2 months ago.

He is a God. In a bigger sense than Thor calls himself a "God." He assumes gigantic humanoid form because he can, but he goes around eating planets as sustenance.

It is the only logical progression from Thanos. Though there can be an argument for Dr. Doom as an in between threat.

[AquaParade]

I like the end credit stuff in that it basically forces people to watch... end credits. In that... you know... the people who made the movie get "seen."

Yeah, that’s a good a reason as any to keep them around, I suppose.

[ProactiveMan]

Gotta know who drove Chris Hemsworth to set every morning, and who manages ILM's IT department.

[sdp]

I feel we were robbed of an Iron Man 4, I would've loved to have seen one more solo Iron Man movie. Sure , we see him in all the Avengers movies, Civil War, Spider-Man but he needed one last solo hoorah against some villain, who cares even if it's MODOK.

I remember after Avengers there was speculation that RDJ wouldn't want to do the role for much longer and that's why Iron Man 3 had that ambiguous ending of him quitting being Iron Man but clearly he was in for the whole 10 year phase and Disney had the money to throw at him.

[Andrew NDB]

Gotta know who drove Chris Hemsworth to set every morning

What about the poor bastard who had to drive Brie Larson to and from set? That guy deserves... soemthing.

[oldmanwinters]

That guy deserves... soemthing.

She doesn't need a man to drive her! I'm sure she's perfectly capable of driving herself! :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

My Blade prediction just "moved" a little.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05/08/wesley-snipes-teases-blade/?fbclid=IwAR3JqXe-tXzm5lgSAyVx4TVqjEvEt80hf7hVBom27r-yav8Pqha_fyM8hWM

[neatoman]

I didn't really think about this before but Carol has to be at least 60 years old in Endgame, if not closer to 65. Makes me wonder if she's actually meant to age slowly or if the writers/directors of Captain Marvel forgot how long ago 1989 really was.

Not that it will matter much for future movies featuring her but it's kind of weird to think this character is an old lady, played an actress who would normally be 35 years too young. Assuming the timeline doesn't stay in 2023 until we reach that point in the real world, Captain Marvel 2 will be about a 70 year old woman.

There is one relevant bit in terms of story though. Monica Rambeau is like 40+ by the time of Endgame, meaning she'll actually be played by actress older than Brie Larson, how weird is that?

[ToTheNines]

This is a sad thread lol

[neatoman]

This is a sad thread lol

Well, I was right about one thing though, Teyonah Parris is older than Brie Larson.

[IMJ]

Well, I was right about one thing though, Teyonah Parris is older than Brie Larson.

Brie Larson is still a sorry sad sack of skin with no redeeming personality traits.

Teyonah Parris is still a sculpted goddess and babe who I'd love to see comeback as Photon in a future flick that I'd be happy to pay for as long as it was 100% absent of cultural bull$#!( and messaging.

But then again I also thought that Anthony Mackie was cool as hell as Falcon and then he went on a show featuring a black Captain America and lectured us to "do better" while saying that America would never allow a "black Captain America" literally on a show with Black Captain America. That's black-culture-brainwashing stupidity at it's absolute height right there. Hopefully Teyonah fares better.....

On that note I haven't seen the 2nd Captain Marvel. I won't even pirate that $#!( and I'm still incredibly butthurt by how they apparently ruined Quasar and the Quantum Bands in that film.