Things that annoy you about the TMNT fandom?

[Prowler]

All fandoms/fanbases have their issues. What annoys you about TMNT's?

Using the FW series as the golden standard of TMNT: We all know very well by now that a huge portion of TMNT fans think everything TMNT has to be like the FW toon and they consider it the definitive version of TMNT.

The low standards of a big portion of the fandom: It's like a lot of TMNT fans will just accept anything, no matter how bad it might be, just because it has the TMNT label slapped on it. Like the Bay films, for example. They might have gotten a lot of backlash online but clearly a lot of people paid to watch those movies and some people in these forums actually admitted to watch them at the cinema SEVERAL TIMES.

What about you about the TMNT fandom?

[Utrommaniac]

The aspect of "Everything has to be edgy"

How dare the ROTMNT not be butting heads and being mean to each other? Why aren't Raph and Leo constantly fighting for authority?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

All fandoms/fanbases have their issues. What annoys you about TMNT's?

Using the FW series as the golden standard of TMNT: We all know very well by now that a huge portion of TMNT fans think everything TMNT has to be like the FW toon and they consider it the definitive version of TMNT.

The low standards of a big portion of the fandom: It's like a lot of TMNT fans will just accept anything, no matter how bad it might be, just because it has the TMNT label slapped on it. Like the Bay films, for example. They might have gotten a lot of backlash online but clearly a lot of people paid to watch those movies and some people in these forums actually admitted to watch them at the cinema SEVERAL TIMES.

What about you about the TMNT fandom?

You covered my main gripes. But I'm sure I piss off as many people with my opinions as they do me.

I'd add, no adult/older-teen oriented series or movies, aka, why don't we have our Netflix Daredevil or Guardians of the Galaxy quality TMNT yet?

[Utrommaniac]

A GOTG-type TMNT would be absolutely amazing!

Or even something Thor: Ragnarok in tone.

[Autbot_Benz]

All fandoms/fanbases have their issues. What annoys you about TMNT's?

Using the FW series as the golden standard of TMNT: We all know very well by now that a huge portion of TMNT fans think everything TMNT has to be like the FW toon and they consider it the definitive version of TMNT.

The low standards of a big portion of the fandom: It's like a lot of TMNT fans will just accept anything, no matter how bad it might be, just because it has the TMNT label slapped on it. Like the Bay films, for example. They might have gotten a lot of backlash online but clearly a lot of people paid to watch those movies and some people in these forums actually admitted to watch them at the cinema SEVERAL TIMES.

What about you about the TMNT fandom?

actually this pretty much covers it. Id add that the Official TMNT twitter annoys me its such a shill for the crappy aspects of the TMNT

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

A GOTG-type TMNT would be absolutely amazing!

Or even something Thor: Ragnarok in tone.

An apt comparison with the space gladiatorial stuff. Triceratons in place of Hulk, yadda yadda.

Something with heart, action, but (mostly) serious tone. Though I'm much more preferring of Daredevil with a little more humor.

Anywhere on the Daredevil to GOTG1 spectrum, I'd be satisfied with.

[Prowler]

You covered my main gripes. But I'm sure I piss off as many people with my opinions as they do me.

I'd add, no adult/older-teen oriented series or movies, aka, why don't we have our Netflix Daredevil or Guardians of the Galaxy quality TMNT yet?

That's not related to the fandom, since 99% of the fandom isn't in charge. Although you could say a large part of the fandom is also to blame for wanting TMNT to remain as a kid property.

[IndigoErth]

The defensive comments even from within that allows the "just a kids thing" stigma to hold on and continue to shortchange what TMNT can be and actually started out as.

Beyond that, the main things are the things that bother me about modern fandom in general... In particular, the absurd amount of incest interest and the treatment of fandom now as a club for people to get attention. I don't know how many times I've seen dumb kids threatening to "leave" a fandom because they're not getting enough attention for their art and, more often than not, their OCs. A portion of fandom seems like it is hardly even about the actual canon characters and their series/franchise anymore...

[KROW]

Taking one iteration and believing that iteration is THE quintessential version and forcing it on others.

We all have our favorite renditions of the Turtles. But when you see/hear a discussion on one you don't favor and chime in with ridicule and how much your favorite is better, that's dickish and setting yourself up for an argument.

The franchise has been bounced around so much that at this point, I think it's best to just make discoveries to the versions you haven't seen, find your favorites and hold them dear, don't indulge in the ones you dislike, and leave it at that.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Taking one iteration and believing that iteration is THE quintessential version and forcing it on others.

We all have our favorite renditions of the Turtles. But when you see/hear a discussion on one you don't favor and chime in with ridicule and how much your favorite is better, that's dickish and setting yourself up for an argument.

The franchise has been bounced around so much that at this point, I think it's best to just make discoveries to the versions you haven't seen, find your favorites and hold them dear, don't indulge in the ones you dislike, and leave it at that.

This. All of this. My exact feelings.

[Leo656]

Why aren't Raph and Leo constantly fighting for authority?

Well... that's a huge part of who their characters are. It doesn't have to be CONSTANT but it's part of who they are as "people". Like Jonny Storm and Ben Grimm givin' each other the business, for example.

Meanwhile, others have already said pretty much what I would say.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

A GOTG-type TMNT would be absolutely amazing!

Or even something Thor: Ragnarok in tone.

While those are both enjoyable, they're not quite what I want for a TMNT film. If anything, GotG's tone kinda annoys me at times.

[IndigoErth]

Although I would not really mind a TMNT/GotG crossover movie for the heck of it.

[The-Shredder]

This may be due to TMNT being 35 years young and having been run independently for most of its lifetime, but it's annoying how difficult it is to find rare behind the scenes and promotional materials for the movies and shows. It seems to me that other fanbases as young as TMNT are able to archive and share their rarer aspects in a more accessible way. There's a lot of stuff from the 1987 cartoon, the movies, The Next Mutation, and the 2003 show that has been lost to time or is inaccessible to the public. For example, The Next Mutation was re-edited for the 2012 DVD releases. Where are the original TV edits? I hope we can do a better part in maintaining TMNT's history when the companies fail to do so.

[neatoman]

TMNT fans who don't read comics and people who draw turtlecest annoy me. Also fans who get offended when you don't pretend the Fred Wolf show is good or somehow deserves to be exempt from criticism for it's impact on the franchise, simply because they still like it themselves.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Endless amounts of Fans who want every version of the TMNT to follow the Original Cartoon as close as possible

We get it, the OT was/is popular, but it doesn't need to be the template for EVERY TMNT show/movie out there

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

turtlecest

Thankfully, it will never make it to the cartoons or comics.

[Metalwolf]

Wanting any New Turtles to be just like the OT. Defending it being a 'kiddie franchise.' Begging for endlessly rehashed old comicbook storylines rather then want something original. Buying endless junk marked 'Turtles no matter how useless or cluttering it is (I'm not talking about the plastic dolls) even if most of the stuff is destined just to be gazed at, never used.

[Dejablue]

- The portion of the fandom that loves TCest. I'd love to burn them.

- The elitist edgelord part of the fandom that hates all the cartoons because they aren't 1:1 accurate to the original comics.

- Fans that demand the Shredder be in every iteration of TMNT. He doesn't need to be.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

- The portion of the fandom that loves TCest. I'd love to burn them.

- The elitist edgelord part of the fandom that hates all the cartoons because they aren't 1:1 accurate to the original comics.

- Fans that demand the Shredder be in every iteration of TMNT. He doesn't need to be.

Well, at least he isn't in Operation Blue Line and We Wish You a Turtle Christmas (though Bebop and Rocksteady are mentioned in the second one)...

[oldmanwinters]

A whole bunch of crappy, wish-fulfillment fan-fiction but so few adequate fan comics that try to engage with the source material rather than load down the story with O.C.s.

[Dejablue]

A whole bunch of crappy, wish-fulfillment fan-fiction but so few adequate fan comics that try to engage with the source material rather than load down the story with O.C.s.

https://www.cathealth.com/images/Cat_hissing_at_person.jpg

Hey! Leave my 70 chapter fic with 30 OCs alone.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

A whole bunch of crappy, wish-fulfillment fan-fiction but so few adequate fan comics that try to engage with the source material rather than load down the story with O.C.s.

There are so many fanfiction stories out there where usually a teenager accidentally falls into the Manhattan sewers, encounters the turtles and then again accidentally stumbles upon a mutagen canister, turning him or her into another mutant turtle.

[Leo656]

People who get repeatedly banned from forums but constantly sneak back in under new fake names is pretty annoying.

You'd think they'd take the hint that they're not welcome and that they're always gonna get caught eventually.

[Prowler]

People who get repeatedly banned from forums but constantly sneak back in under new fake names is pretty annoying.

You'd think they'd take the hint that they're not welcome and that they're always gonna get caught eventually.

That's not exclusive of this fandom, trust me.

[Leo656]

I sincerely wish there was no internet. Sincerely.

[snake]

Imagine how f*cking weird the world would be without the internet. Literally all of pop culture would be different.

[Leo656]

And nobody would feel compelled to ever share their opinions with anyone because they'd be under absolutely no illusion that anyone cares.

I'm old enough to remember it. A simpler, much better time indeed.

Probably the best piece of advice my old man ever gave me: "Nobody gives a sh*t, keep it to yourself." He was blunt, but he had a point.

[snake]

This whole "nerd culture" BS wouldn't even exist. I can't even imagine the impact no internet would have on our society. We'd absolutely be better off.

[Leo656]

Since the Multiverse is infinite, I can absolutely imagine a parallel Earth where we never became over-reliant on technology (and other people's opinions telling us how to think), and thus we didn't churn out a society of pale, scrawny/overweight, hyper-sensitive, maladjusted, overly-entitled professionally-offended nitwits with their skin on inside-out.

I mean, like I said, I'm ancient by modern Millenial, "Anyone over 25 is a Grandpa" standards, so it really isn't that hard to imagine since I actually lived through it. But yeah, we really f*ckin' screwed the pooch. Bring on climate change, bring on the asteroid, let the sun go supernova, what-the-f*ck-ever. Just get me off this rock already. Watching humanity swirl the bowl is depressing.

[Prowler]

The internet obviously brought both good and bad things.

The internet has helped me discover a lot of anime/cartoons/movies/music/videogames/etc. I'd otherwise never discovered. And it was also how I was able to connect with people from all over the world, several of them who share a lot of interests with me, instead of having to confine myself to my own bubble.

Kids like snake will never know how surreal it was being able to talk to people from the other side of the globe without needing a phone or having to travel to their country for the first time ever in the 1990s and early 2000s.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Kids like snake will never know how surreal it was being able to talk to people from the other side of the globe without needing a phone or having to travel to their country for the first time ever in the 1990s and early 2000s.

One upon a time were the penpals...

[Voltron]

There's still penpals. My colleagues organize that kind of stuff all the time.

As for the TMNT fandom, I've been blessed enough as an introvert and a stone faced stoic to not have to interact with too many people at cons and comic shops.

Though I did know a few people in high school and college who were WAY too proud of their inside jokes.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Imagine how f*cking weird the world would be without the internet. Literally all of pop culture would be different.

I would be like it was 25 years ago.

[IndigoErth]

Kids like snake will never know how surreal it was being able to talk to people from the other side of the globe without needing a phone or having to travel to their country for the first time ever in the 1990s and early 2000s.
Very true, that part is still pretty awesome.

And when it's people from two countries that don't like each other all that much? If the governments would just cool it and let the common citizens have any say, shared fandom could save the world, dammit. :tlol: (While probably destroying itself from the inside out, but hey, at least it did some kind of good first. lol)

[Candy Kappa]

Without the Internet we'd still have fanzines which we had long before Internet. So it's be the same only in a smaller and slower scale.

Just look at fans whining about Micheal Keaton's casting as Batman, fans and fandoms have always had whiny idiots

[Prowler]

One upon a time were the penpals...
I had forgotten about that. I guess I'm showing my age here.

My brother had a penpal from Finland back in the day. They eventually began talking through the internet but I remember how we'd get letters from her in our mailbox. I have no idea how they met before the internet. Probably through a magazine or something?

There's still penpals. My colleagues organize that kind of stuff all the time.

As for the TMNT fandom, I've been blessed enough as an introvert and a stone faced stoic to not have to interact with too many people at cons and comic shops.

Though I did know a few people in high school and college who were WAY too proud of their inside jokes.
Probably used by older people who still grew up with penpals being a thing. I can't imagine myself meeting people from all over the globe by using such method.

[Sobble]

When someone is toxic

This applies to every fandom

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

A whole bunch of crappy, wish-fulfillment fan-fiction but so few adequate fan comics that try to engage with the source material rather than load down the story with O.C.s.

Some years ago, we played the fangames in the RPG section. Originally, everything was great but later, people became more and more interested in playing with their original characters, which only leads to confusion. Now, these games are dead.

[Hamato Yoshi]

There were pen pals section in the scandinavian Phantom comic book , 70s-90s

[pferreira]

- Fans who fail to see good things in each iteration of a TMNT iteration however small

- 'Fans' who bully other fans on forums

- People like neatoman obviously ;)

- Fans needing Leo and Raph to have a fight to legitimise a TMNT iteration

- Fans who think the FW series shouldn't be discussed because it was made for 'five year olds'. :roll:

- Needing the Turtles to murder people to show they're for adults (when they're not) ;)

Imagine how f*cking weird the world would be without the internet. Literally all of pop culture would be different.Every time my dad sees a news report on how social media has led to a bullied person killing themselves he says they should ban social media. I think he's correct. :)

[sleeplessknight]

I get annoyed when casual fans get confused when they see anyone other than Raphael wearing a red bandana because they're not familiar with the original Mirage comics.

Rather I'm more annoyed at having to explain it to them.

[Skinrash]

People who roleplay on discussion forums. Become a cosplayer or join a local theater group if you wanna pretend to be someone else.

[snake]

Unpopular opinion: the FW series is 100% garbage and anyone who takes it seriously is part of the problem. The entire reason the TMNT property is in such a sh*tty spot right now is because of that f*cking cartoon.

[Andrew NDB]

Unpopular opinion: the FW series is 100% garbage and anyone who takes it seriously is part of the problem. The entire reason the TMNT property is in such a sh*tty spot right now is because of that f*cking cartoon.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/46869508.jpg

[IndigoErth]

The thing that is truly garbage is the limited perspective and understanding of those who try to use it as a template for everything TMNT should be afterward. I really doubt the FW series set out to destroy everything and is just a show of its time period. Heck, even it tried to get a bit more serious late in its run, but they disregard that part.

It's these idiots trying to recreate Turtlemania with similar angles, in an age where kids have too much competing for their attention and less reason to ever care as much as kids of the 80s and early 90s did, and ignoring that the larger majority of the fans whose attention they could be taking advantage of are not age 5 and may want different things out of it now.

[snake]

Oh, the OT by itself is harmless. It’s a terrible show, but it’s existence is understandable and necessary. The constant insertion of OT elements and pandering in future incarnations is what’s demeaning the franchise.

OOTS sealed the fate of the TMNT ever having serious presence as a property and closed more doors to mature storytelling than ever before. The first movie was disliked by everyone and received tons of backlash? Oh, they must’ve wanted it to be more like the cartoon! See, we have Krang! We have Bebop and Rocksteady! The Technodrome! We’re fans too! This is everything you wanted, right?

[IndigoErth]

I see what you're saying. And kind of an insult to viewer intelligence, waving that stuff in front of people.

While I don't mind a little nostalgia thrown in, I do very much agree in terms of going overboard on it like that and being in your face about it as an obvious attempted cash grab. If the next does happen, I hope it sticks to subtle Easter Eggs at most, if at all.

And while seeing B&R and Krang in live action is neat, they were kind of wasted anyhow, esp Krang. Though since it's now been done it may no longer be as tempting to a future studio to try to tackle them since it won't be a "new" thing to try to do. So maybe the PD mess getting some of it out of the way will prove to be not so bad someday.

[snake]

Nah, studios will just double down in the next film, assuming the reason why OOTS did so poorly was because it wasn't an exact 1:1 live action adaptation. Expect a "quirky" movie set in the 80s that's essentially just the OT but live action.

[ZariusTwo]

Unpopular Opinion: I think any fan who badmouths the FW 'toon on a forum that started out as a love letter to it are nowhere near as big clever or radical as they like to think they are. They think they're saying something new, relevant to today's issues with the franchise, but they're not, and don't have a realistic view of how much of a legacy it has in pop culture

That cartoon is this franchise's only truly enduring legacy. Elements from it have long since informed the franchise's cultural identity, it's hardwired into every reboot's DNA. Remove it and all you have is some pseudo-intellectual Daredevil rip-off for edgelords.

Frankly, whenever some envious fan cheerleads Ice Cream Kitty or something equally ludicrous from the (IMO) 200% SH*TE Nick cartoon, I often question just when it's convenient for those pots to label their kettles black.

Nah, studios will just double down in the next film, assuming the reason why OOTS did so poorly was because it wasn't an exact 1:1 live action adaptation. Expect a "quirky" movie set in the 80s that's essentially just the OT but live action.

Awesome. Seeth away, I'll be there opening day.

[slingtheory]

All fandoms/fanbases have their issues. What annoys you about TMNT's?

Using the FW series as the golden standard of TMNT: We all know very well by now that a huge portion of TMNT fans think everything TMNT has to be like the FW toon and they consider it the definitive version of TMNT.

The low standards of a big portion of the fandom: It's like a lot of TMNT fans will just accept anything, no matter how bad it might be, just because it has the TMNT label slapped on it. Like the Bay films, for example. They might have gotten a lot of backlash online but clearly a lot of people paid to watch those movies and some people in these forums actually admitted to watch them at the cinema SEVERAL TIMES.

What about you about the TMNT fandom? this right here. I get the love for the original show but damn it's very annoying that as far as main stream goes it's considered the end all be all by people who never looked beyond it. It's so frustrating that pop culture on mass doesn't even see it a comic book property but rather a kids show that was very successful in its heyday.
Its equally annoying that some fans seem more than happy to take whatever bones they're thrown out of some twisted sense of loyalty. Dont get me wrong I dont mean the people who legitimately like a thing. For instance if anybody out there actually liked the bay movies than more power to them. I'll never understand them hey taste is taste. But if you're one of the people who paid to see it multiple times and bought the bluray just because you were worried that thered never be another movie if this doesn't do well you're hurting us more than helping



The thing that is truly [garbage[/B] is the limited perspective and understanding of those who try to use it as a template for everything TMNT should be afterward. I really doubt the FW series set out to destroy everything and is just a show of its time period. you're correct. What it set out to do was make a whole lotta money off a thing that turned out to be explicable popular by milking the cash cow dry before it died:trazz:. But seriously though I developed a sort of love hate relationship with the show over the years bit the older I get the more I realize you can't blame fred wolf and the gang for striking while the iron was hot. You cant blame Eastman and Liard for taking the money. You cant even blame the people who hold the show up as the gospel of tmnt just because it's the first thing they were exposed to. Who you absolutely should blame however are the people behind the scenes who keep referring to it as a formula for success/ cheap way to nostalgia bait people rather than going back to the ground floor and doing the hard work of trying to figure out what made these characters so enduring they haven't completed faded into obscurity after 35 years

Unpopular opinion: the FW series is 100% garbage and anyone who takes it seriously is part of the problem. The entire reason the TMNT property is in such a sh*tty spot right now is because of that f*cking cartoon.

Unpopular Opinion: I think any fan who badmouths the FW 'toon on a forum that started out as a love letter to it are nowhere near as big clever or radical as they like to think they are. They think they're saying something new, relevant to today's issues with the franchise, but they're not, and don't have a realistic view of how much of a legacy it has in pop culture

That cartoon is this franchise's only truly enduring legacy. Elements from it have long since informed the franchise's cultural identity, it's hardwired into every reboot's DNA. Remove it and all you have is some pseudo-intellectual Daredevil rip-off for edgelords.

Frankly, whenever some envious fan cheerleads Ice Cream Kitty or something equally ludicrous from the (IMO) 200% SH*TE Nick cartoon, I often question just when it's convenient for those pots to label their kettles black.



Awesome. Seeth away, I'll be there opening day.
Mostly though if anything bugs me about this fandom it's this right here. Turtles fans have to be the greatest example of a broken base. No matter what the conversation is or wherever you are of you give it time it'll eventually devolve into "your favorite version sucks and here's why." I know that try as I might I've been guilty of it to in the past bit I'm just beyond tired of elitist gate keeping attitudes and infighting. I dont see it ever stopping either though sad as it is

[Wesley]

this right here. I get the love for the original show but damn it's very annoying that as far as main stream goes it's considered the end all be all by people who never looked beyond it. It's so frustrating that pop culture on mass doesn't even see it a comic book property but rather a kids show that was very successful in its heyday.
Its equally annoying that some fans seem more than happy to take whatever bones they're thrown out of some twisted sense of loyalty. Dont get me wrong I dont mean the people who legitimately like a thing. For instance if anybody out there actually liked the bay movies than more power to them. I'll never understand them hey taste is taste. But if you're one of the people who paid to see it multiple times and bought the bluray just because you were worried that thered never be another movie if this doesn't do well you're hurting us more than helping



you're correct. What it set out to do was make a whole lotta money off a thing that turned out to be explicable popular by milking the cash cow dry before it died:trazz:. But seriously though I developed a sort of love hate relationship with the show over the years bit the older I get the more I realize you can't blame fred wolf and the gang for striking while the iron was hot. You cant blame Eastman and Liard for taking the money. You cant even blame the people who hold the show up as the gospel of tmnt just because it's the first thing they were exposed to. Who you absolutely should blame however are the people behind the scenes who keep referring to it as a formula for success/ cheap way to nostalgia bait people rather than going back to the ground floor and doing the hard work of trying to figure out what made these characters so enduring they haven't completed faded into obscurity after 35 years




Mostly though if anything bugs me about this fandom it's this right here. Turtles fans have to be the greatest example of a broken base. No matter what the conversation is or wherever you are of you give it time it'll eventually devolve into "your favorite version sucks and here's why." I know that try as I might I've been guilty of it to in the past bit I'm just beyond tired of elitist gate keeping attitudes and infighting. I dont see it ever stopping either though sad as it is

I agree with slingtheory.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Really, just anyone holding that because something originated from one of the more kid oriented iterations, it is an inherently stupid and unusable idea, really bugs me. Yes, the cartoon was for kids. Objectively, it's not very well made. I still enjoyed it. And it introduced so many ideas that are just ripe for potential! Any idea, no matter how silly, can always be worked into something awesome. I'll cite IDW's use of the Fred Wolf Trio as an example. Just because it came from a version intended for children, it doesn't mean that when it shows up again they're just pandering to nostalgia. They just thought of a new way to use the charaters or concepts that serviced their story. I've always thought that the ability to pull from the toybox and make new toys out of it was one of the TMNT franchise's greatest strengths.

[Andrew NDB]

I'll cite IDW's use of the Fred Wolf Trio as an example. Just because it came from a version intended for children, it doesn't mean that when it shows up again they're just pandering to nostalgia.

It doesn't?

[Zog The Magnificent]

It doesn't?

I don't think so. All three were built up, fully fleshed out, and served a legitimate story function that took the story where it needed to go and took the characters to new places. I mean, if Oroku Nagi ever shows up again, will that just be pandering to Mirage nostalgia?

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think so. All three were built up, fully fleshed out, and served a legitimate story function that took the story where it needed to go and took the characters to new places. I mean, if Oroku Nagi ever shows up again, will that just be pandering to Mirage nostalgia?

No. "Pandering" is not possible with a character that was in the source material.

[Zog The Magnificent]

No. "Pandering" is not possible with a character that was in the source material.

Well, I respectfully disagree. I think that any indulgance of any idea can be pandering, regardless of where it came from. By the same token, I don't necessarily think that making use of ideas is pandering, regardless of where they came from. But that's just my personal point of view.

[slingtheory]

I think it's only pandering if its obvious there only throwing the characters in to get attention and positive buzz based on an emotional response. Like with out of the shadows you can tell they didn't add all those characters and things because they had a story they were excited to tell. It was blatantly done because the first one didn't go over too well so the response was how about we just throw in everything you remember from childhood. There's a difference between creatively bankrupt people trying to manipulate you with good memories and people who just want to play with all the toys in a franchise's toybox in thier storytelling

[IndigoErth]

Who you absolutely should blame however are the people behind the scenes who keep referring to it as a formula for success/ cheap way to nostalgia bait people rather than going back to the ground floor and doing the hard work of trying to figure out what made these characters so enduring they haven't completed faded into obscurity after 35 years
:tthumbsu: Quoted for truth. If only the makers of this stuff would pay attention.


I mean, don't get me wrong, I love that old show has much as the next as many other Turtles fans, and am presently in the middle of a rewatch of the series, again, but entirely agree on it not needing to be the basis for everything and the lazy route to try to attract an audience by assuming it's the be all and end all of what people like. (And that new one pairing them up with Batman sure proved an older, not-so-FW movie can absolutely work.)

I so badly want to see the Turtles allowed to grow up a bit one of these days and be portrayed a little older now and then, and obviously that first cartoon can't really be the basis for that...

[ZariusTwo]

I so badly want to see the Turtles allowed to grow up a bit one of these days and be portrayed a little older now and then, and obviously that first cartoon can't really be the basis for that...

Why not? In Red Sky, they were growing up and taking things more seriously.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I would say that the 80s turtles are definetly old in the sense that they sound like and interact with each other like adults, rather than teenagers.

I think what people here are saying is that they want the turtles to act more like adults who are also not comedians, and go through more development than in the 80s cartoon.

[Prowler]

Why not? In Red Sky, they were growing up and taking things more seriously.

Only to a small degree. To whoever came up with Red Sky, their idea of making the Turtles growing up mentally and taking things more seriously basically meant "stop eating pizza and wait for Shredder to make his move first". Raphael still cracked his usual jokes and Michelangelo still smiled a lot and was a bit chill. It's just that the focus went to constant action and we no longer saw the Turtles in their downtime much anymore like we did in the regular seasons.

[Coola Yagami]

Only to a small degree. To whoever came up with Red Sky, their idea of making the Turtles growing up mentally and taking things more seriously basically meant "stop eating pizza and wait for Shredder to make his move first". Raphael still cracked his usual jokes and Michelangelo still smiled a lot and was a bit chill. It's just that the focus went to constant action and we no longer saw the Turtles in their downtime much anymore like we did in the regular seasons.

Yeah, I noticed that. There wasn't much time for downtime. They tried to cram as much 'action' and sub plots in the same episode that some of them almost felt like 2 parters.

[Prowler]

Yeah, I noticed that. There wasn't much time for downtime. They tried to cram as much 'action' and sub plots in the same episode that some of them almost felt like 2 parters.

I feel like you and I have this same conversation every few months. Same for that Yoku guy that somehow knew the Turtles episode :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Why not? In Red Sky, they were growing up and taking things more seriously.
I agree that Red Sky is a bit of an exception, even if not to the same extent of the prior comics or 2003, though sadly that period of it is obviously ignored when other producers and whatnot try to look back at that series for inspiration. And if they did, they'd have no business ignoring 2003 as well. (With the DC animation people clearly an awesome exception.)


I would say that the 80s turtles are definetly old in the sense that they sound like and interact with each other like adults, rather than teenagers.

I think what people here are saying is that they want the turtles to act more like adults who are also not comedians, and go through more development than in the 80s cartoon.
Yeah, exactly. And it's not like they need to completely cut out the humor, by all means keep it in the right moments, esp when they're "off the clock" and just being normal siblings... just PD and whatnot need to not try so had to force it in there. Lighter humor that's less kid-like and that just seems more natural would be kind of refreshing. Do these producers, writers, ect not have siblings and family and no idea how they interact? lol

e.g. Forget the Looney Tunes-ish stuff with Raph in OotS and instead just, I dunno, let him poke fun at Leo for a chuckle instead, both for himself and the audience. (Sorry, Leo, I love you... lol ...but it's funny and you can poke back at him too.)

[bwwd]

topic title should be "lets start some flamewar":lol:
This forum is active for a long time and its strange how you guys still take the bait

[Powder]

There's no bait. Prowler's a good dude who never causes trouble, & there's not even any drama in this thread. :tlol:

[IndigoErth]

The calmest flamewar I've ever seen, the people here have great skill.

[Coola Yagami]

I feel like you and I have this same conversation every few months. Same for that Yoku guy that somehow knew the Turtles episode :lol:

Mostly cause whenever Red Sky is brought up they treat it as if it were Batman levels of serious when it really wasn't.

I mean looking back they probably just didn't have the budget to animate proper fight scenes so they filled the episode with plot after plot. If Red Sky wanted to up the ante, that woulda been the time to have the turtles finally bust out some sweet ninja moves.

[pferreira]

Unpopular opinion: the FW series is 100% garbage and anyone who takes it seriously is part of the problem. The entire reason the TMNT property is in such a sh*tty spot right now is because of that f*cking cartoon.Erm it's alright man, it's alright.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2d3f2af67d259b9efee122b28229cee8/tumblr_inline_p2vr0xbAtj1sq1um0_500.gif :D

Unpopular Opinion: I think any fan who badmouths the FW 'toon on a forum that started out as a love letter to it are nowhere near as big clever or radical as they like to think they are. They think they're saying something new, relevant to today's issues with the franchise, but they're not, and don't have a realistic view of how much of a legacy it has in pop culture

That cartoon is this franchise's only truly enduring legacy. Elements from it have long since informed the franchise's cultural identity, it's hardwired into every reboot's DNA. Remove it and all you have is some pseudo-intellectual Daredevil rip-off for edgelords.

Frankly, whenever some envious fan cheerleads Ice Cream Kitty or something equally ludicrous from the (IMO) 200% SH*TE Nick cartoon, I often question just when it's convenient for those pots to label their kettles black.I'm proud of you man, took a lot of guts to say something I couldn't.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OldBlandEmu-small.gif :lol:

I'll cite IDW's use of the Fred Wolf Trio as an example. Just because it came from a version intended for children, it doesn't mean that when it shows up again they're just pandering to nostalgia. They just thought of a new way to use the charaters or concepts that serviced their story. I've always thought that the ability to pull from the toybox and make new toys out of it was one of the TMNT franchise's greatest strengths.But IDW didn't improve upon anything the FW series did so my argument is why not create something completely different with TMNT? It shows a lack of confidence in the property when a large part of the comic tries to recreate the FW series for teens and adults. This is why the IDW comic from what I've seen for me falls flat.

I think what people here are saying is that they want the turtles to act more like adults who are also not comedians, and go through more development than in the 80s cartoon.Complacency is the most valid criticism you can give the FW series.

Yeah, I noticed that. There wasn't much time for downtime. They tried to cram as much 'action' and sub plots in the same episode that some of them almost felt like 2 parters.To be fair to the Red Sky era it was probably the closest in tone and style to Season 1. If the series had carried on throughout its middle seasons in the Season 1 style we would have got to the Red Sky era without any complaints from long term viewers. That disconnect between seasons is what created problems.

[ABrown]

Fans acting like Ciro Nieli is the Bruce Timm of the TMNT franchise.

[slingtheory]

Fans acting like Ciro Nieli is the Bruce Timm of the TMNT franchise.
I wouldn't go that far but you get the sense that he has real love for all aspects of the franchise's history. Also his show put more emphasis on the turtles being ninjas than any other animated adaptation. I respect him for those two things alone.

[Coola Yagami]

Fans acting like Ciro Nieli is the Bruce Timm of the TMNT franchise.

Who the hell does that?

[Vegita-San]

Who the hell does that?

a few people on here act like they'd want to have his kids :/....

for the most part, tmnt fandom is pretty ok. there are a few whack jobs out there, but, that's par for the course for any fandom.

some of the first people i ever met online where from tmnt fandom... and in person no less.

I wouldn't go that far but you get the sense that he has real love for all aspects of the franchise's history. Also his show put more emphasis on the turtles being ninjas than any other animated adaptation. I respect him for those two things alone.

I feel like he only cares about Mirage centered stuff. anything else seems forced on him.

[MikeandRaph87]

I admit that I don't recall much praise for him around here, just the brief stint on the site where he could not take heat from overly critical adults.


While the 1987 cartoon is the franchise's cornerstone to me I can understand people being put off by David Wise taking way too much credit for Turtlemania.

[Vegita-San]

While the 1987 cartoon is the franchise's cornerstone to me I can understand people being put off by David Wise taking way too much credit for Turtlemania.

He does seem to have a bit of an ego. although to be fair, his stuff is mostly what people remember about the hey dey of tmnt.

and it's what most of the franchise has been based off of since.

[80gmrp]

I admit that I don't recall much praise for him around here

This, from what I've personally seen.

[Ninjinister]

The fact that almost 100% of the people that I've seen complaining about Jennika don't even read the comics at all. And it's not even that she's female... they just don't want a fifth turtle, period.

[The-Shredder]

The fact that almost 100% of the people that I've seen complaining about Jennika don't even read the comics at all. And it's not even that she's female... they just don't want a fifth turtle, period.

Wait...what!?!? When did this happen?! :teek:

EDIT: Just read an article about it. I've never read the IDW comics, but it sounds like it came out of nowhere. And she's Casey Jones' love interest too?

[Coola Yagami]

Wait...what!?!? When did this happen?! :teek:

EDIT: Just read an article about it. I've never read the IDW comics, but it sounds like it came out of nowhere. And she's Casey Jones' love interest too?

Jennika's been in the comic for a while, so it's all stuff that happened in time. I do believe April and Casey parted ways cause they really had nothing in common other than 'they know the turtles'. I mean they may get together eventually but this is a break.

I like this idea since Jen is pre-established character so her personality will carry over. She's not some long lost sister or some garbage.

[pferreira]

While the 1987 cartoon is the franchise's cornerstone to me I can understand people being put off by David Wise taking way too much credit for Turtlemania.My feeling on it has always been that it's the Mirage Vol 1 comic series that is the cornerstone or source material. The FW series is an adaptation just like the 2003 version is. At the end of the day unless an iteration introduces a new character everybody should go back to Mirage Vol 1 for comparisons on how to write TMNT.

The fact that almost 100% of the people that I've seen complaining about Jennika don't even read the comics at all. And it's not even that she's female... they just don't want a fifth turtle, period.What...the...fu*k?! Oh no not again! They never learn... :o

Apparently according to Bobby Curnow it's something one of the writers felt he had to be done. :roll:

He does seem to have a bit of an ego.Yes...an ego is one word I'd use. :(

[Hamato Yoshi]

"The first movie was disliked by everyone and received tons of backlash?"

Reminds me of OHMSS , I guess the Bond producers thought that it was not as successful as it couldve been thus DAF became campy/more OTT , like GF which to the average movie goer is the formula for 007

[swing_kinker]

People who spout that the early comics were super violent and the turtles constantly killed people with loads of blood.....these people are parroting things they've heard without reading the comics and it's simply not true. Sure it was more violent than the cartoon of course but people go way overboaord