How dark were the Red Sky seasons compared to the movie and 2k3?

[Mugic]

I’ve never send the old toon myself, so I wouldn’t know, were these episodes as dark as the 2003 series/1990 movie?

[IndigoErth]

Nooo... I wouldn't call them dark, just a bit more serious. Only thing dark is the lighting.

[Leo656]

Yeah, pretty much. The music was a bit more "serious", and the sun never came out (hence the "Red Sky" descriptor), but it really wasn't TOO much different from the regular seasons of the show.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I wouldn't say that they are really dark, just more serious if that makes sense.

If you're watching the 80s show now, you'll still get those same old lovable turtles when you reach season 8, just with a different look that may or may not be to your liking.

[CyberCubed]

As dark as you want them to be.

[sdp]

They're definitely darker than the average episode of previous seasons but they are nowhere near as dark as 2k3 or even Batman TAS/X-Men TAS which the more mature look was to compete with those shows.

[The-Shredder]

I'd say it hits the sweet spot between the earlier seasons and the 2003 cartoon, just not as fleshed out. You can tell CBS was desperate to follow the dark and edgy cartoon trends at the time, just as how Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer were in response to the light and colorful cartoon trends that were emerging. Thankfully, Raphael still has his sarcastic wit, but the lighthearted goofiness is almost absent, for better or worse depending on your tastes. Out of the three seasons, my favorite is Season 10. It had great episodes like "Mobster from Dimension X" and "The Day the Earth Disappeared." For the next cartoon, I would probably want it to be like the Red Sky seasons, just without the red sky.

Get the Season 1 DVD. Not only do you get the first five episodes, which are awesome, but it should include some of the Season 10 episodes as a bonus, at least the first run of the DVD from 2004 did.

[neatoman]

Not very dark at all. Compared to the previous seasons maybe but not other stuff.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Get the Season 1 DVD. Not only do you get the first five episodes, which are awesome, but it should include some of the Season 10 episodes as a bonus, at least the first run of the DVD from 2004 did.

When the Season 1 DVD was released in April 2004, many had either forgotten seasons 8–10, nor never seen them at all. Not everything was a Youtube click away back then (and wouldn't be until the Youtube was launched in May 2005).

[sdp]

Many cartoons in the 90s tried to emulate what Batman TAS and X-Men were doing but failed at it. You had shows like Double Dragon, Savage Dragon (https://miscrave.com/articles/savage-dragon/), WILD Cats, Skeleton Warriors (https://miscrave.com/articles/skeleton-warriors/), Ultraforce (https://miscrave.com/articles/ultraforce/), etc. Where it seems like it's a dark setting but it really isn't and the average episodes are very tame.

They copied some of the art style but not the writing and I think TMNT fell in that trap as well, sure the turtles are slightly more mature but not by much. I remember a dromer once came up with the theory that after Turtles Forever they decided to be less goofy and take things more seriously hence the red sky seasons have slightly more serious turtles. Gargoyles was one of the few shows that copied the dark setting and writing well.

[Leo656]

Haha, Skeleton Warriors.

I never watched it, but I have memories of it. Specifically, that it was never actually on, but they ran the ONE commercial for it constantly as if it was a big huge deal. And it was always the exact same commercial.

Ahhh, the 90s. Seriously, go up to someone of a certain age and dramatically cry out, "My Skeleton Warriors are VULNERABLE?!", they'll either high-five you or have you committed. No joke.

[Prowler]

Haha, Skeleton Warriors.

I never watched it, but I have memories of it. Specifically, that it was never actually on, but they ran the ONE commercial for it constantly as if it was a big huge deal. And it was always the exact same commercial.

Ahhh, the 90s. Seriously, go up to someone of a certain age and dramatically cry out, "My Skeleton Warriors are VULNERABLE?!", they'll either high-five you or have you committed. No joke.

I had to go on youtube. Never watched it, but it does look vaguely familiar. So I guess you're on to something there.

[Coola Yagami]

No dark at all. Just less jokes. They still had cartoonish looking monsters and barely any actual action. All Raph ever did during those episodes was throw his sais around.

[Prowler]

No dark at all. Just less jokes. They still had cartoonish looking monsters and barely any actual action. All Raph ever did during those episodes was throw his sais around.

And you know what else was funny? How the title of season 9's debut episode was THE UNKNOWN NINJA... and yet the series became more sci-fi than ever. How ironic is that? It definitely didn't feel much like Ninja Turtles anymore. In those last 3 seasons, despite trying to portray the show as being more serious, they didn't seem to improve fight scenes at all. Season 1 and 7 had better fight scenes than seasons 8, 9 and 10 did.

[snake]

They’re more boring than anything.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

became more sci-fi than ever..

It was all the time. What Seasons 9-10 did was just adding more non-Dimension X outer space scenes.

[Icebot]

I would think red sky would be meant to be as dark as the movie, after all, movie scenes were shown in the theme song.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Haha, Skeleton Warriors.

I never watched it.

I have watched the first episodes.

[cammy85]

When the Season 1 DVD was released in April 2004, many had either forgotten seasons 8–10, nor never seen them at all. Not everything was a Youtube click away back then (and wouldn't be until the Youtube was launched in May 2005).

If our area hadn't switched CBS affiliates, we never would've got the Red Sky episodes. They removed TMNT for local E/I programming. Not a bad thing, but it switched a month before Season 10 started. I thought Get Shredder was the first new episode in three years. I was soon proven wrong, but I quickly understood why we never got them. It wasn't Youtube; but Vegitasan's old site where I finally got to see the episode where the Technodrome was "destroyed". Then the aneurysm encodes and finally DVDs.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

They removed TMNT for local E/I programming.

The USA adapted a law that required television stations to air educational content in children's programming.

It wasn't Youtube; but Vegitasan's old site where I finally got to see the episode where the Technodrome was "destroyed".

Downloading took hours in pre-broadband days (I didn't have broadband until March 2005).

[cammy85]

The USA adapted a law that required television stations to air educational content in children's programming.

Yes they did. The affiliates could adjust their schedules as they saw fit provided they abided by this law. It wasn't just TMNT affected by this. Like I said; once I finally got to see Get Shredder two years later, I understood exactly why it was removed on the old affiliate. There was a question on an English exam in Grade 12 related to cartoon violence and I used this as an example. Unfortunately, the idea was to base my answer on a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon on TV violence so that didn't go well.

Downloading took hours in pre-broadband days (I didn't have broadband until March 2005).

Truth!! Broadband arrived here in April 2000 and not a moment too soon!!

[ABrown]

The red sky seasons weren't necessarily "dark", but they were a little more serious. I'm one of the believers that the change in tone was to make the show a little more equivalent to Batman: The Animated Series. And in my opinion, it succeeded. I found the change to be for the better, though I'm in the minority when it comes to that opinion.

[Wesley]

The red sky seasons weren't necessarily "dark", but they were a little more serious. I'm one of the believers that the change in tone was to make the show a little more equivalent to Batman: The Animated Series. And in my opinion, it succeeded. I found the change to be for the better, though I'm in the minority when it comes to that opinion.

Agreed. I think red sky was at least a refreshing change from the goofier mid seasons, though season 7 was heading in that direction too. Despite its flaws, I thought it was done better than Sonic SatAM which had a similar tone at around the same time (that show tried to be serious and fell flat as a result). Seasons 8 and 10 were good for their time imo. Don’t care much for 9, though, as the whole Dregg turning the city against the Turtles got old after a few episodes.

[The-Shredder]

I think it's also telling that Tournament Fighters went in the same direction as well a year before. Even the commercial admits it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

[The-Shredder]

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.

I'm talking of trends for (Western) cartoons in general, not just TMNT.

[The-Shredder]

I'm talking of trends for (Western) cartoons in general, not just TMNT.

I guess the formula began to wear thin by the middle of the decade, but the more I think about it, it probably boils down to action figure sales. The shows were meant to sell the figures. As video games got more popular, action figure sales declined. Young Justice's cancellation immediately comes to mind, whereas with more comedic and experimental shows, you don't need to rely on action figures because the budgets are already low to begin with. Now, we get the same type of cartoons from 15-20 years ago marketed to an older audience. Young Justice got revived for a third season on DC Universe and Samurai Jack got a fifth season on Adult Swim.

[Sobble]

Why is everyone suddenly talking about the red sky seasons

[snake]

Because this is a TMNT forum? And we discuss things from all incarnations regardless of how old they are?

[Sobble]

Because this is a TMNT forum? And we discuss things from all incarnations regardless of how old they are?

Thanks for the answer

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

you don't need to rely on action figures because the budgets are already low to begin with.

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?

[pferreira]

The change in tone is quite noticeable and jarring. I guess the show becomes more serious especially with Shredder blowing up the Channel 6 building. The Red Sky era isn't really any darker than the 2003 series but it's less darker than the 90s Batman series.

Haha, Skeleton Warriors.

I never watched it, but I have memories of it. Specifically, that it was never actually on, but they ran the ONE commercial for it constantly as if it was a big huge deal. And it was always the exact same commercial.Never watched Skeleton Warriors (yet) but I own the Sega Saturn game. Not a bad game.

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.I think it was a big mistake to change the animation style for the later seasons.

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?Indeed although the more you put into a plot the more that needs to be animated so yeah you can't make each episode epic if the animators have to animate a lot.

[miru]

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

I don’t really know, maybe the success of SpongeBob combined with 9/11 and Sonic 06. Given that they briefly got even lighter later on...

[Coola Yagami]

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?

Not if the budget doesn't allow for scenes. Look at the fight between Hun, the Turtles and Bishop. If they couldn't afford to animate all that.... Well that scene would've been left on the cutting room floor and some other sub plot or whatever would've taken that air time.

[slingtheory]

I would think red sky would be meant to be as dark as the movie, after all, movie scenes were shown in the theme song.
And that's exactly why they thrown in there there.:tlol:

[Prowler]

And that's exactly why they thrown in there there.:tlol:

Which made no sense, since the Red Sky seasons were NOTHING like the movie except for maybe Carter bearing a slight resemblance to Keno from Secret of the Ooze.

[Wesley]

I would think red sky would be meant to be as dark as the movie, after all, movie scenes were shown in the theme song.

I never saw the red sky intro back in the day, as the TMHT one from seasons 4-7 was still used in Ireland for some reason, but I guess the movie scenes were added to get people thinking that was the case.

[slingtheory]

Which made no sense, since the Red Sky seasons were NOTHING like the movie except for maybe Carter bearing a slight resemblance to Keno from Secret of the Ooze.
This is gonna sound very cynical of me but I'm 100% sure the plan was to draw thier aging audience back in by reminding them of the darkest visual interpretation of the turtles up to that point. It's the same reasons the turtles bandannas got longer and they changed the design of the eyes to be less round and friendly to being more angular. Ironic really considering what happened to the turtles design in secret of the ooze.

But yeah obviously the show didnt get as dark as the movie it just wanted you to think it did going in. Mostly they just dropped comedic overtones and tounge in cheek nature of the whole thing because turtle mania had died down and they were losing attention to more serious shows. Problem is they copied the style and forgot the substance. Batman, xmen and the other stuff they were trying to compete with weren't dark and mature just for they sake of it. They were just trying to be a good adaptations of thier characters and tell stories that respected thier histories if not being straight up pulled from them. Also unlike anything else at the time they were making an effort not to talk down to their audience or blatantly push toys. Just like always though instead of looking at why something works the suits chose to only copy the superficial aesthetics what's working.

[Wesley]

This is gonna sound very cynical of me but I'm 100% sure the plan was to draw thier aging audience back in by reminding them of the darkest visual interpretation of the turtles up to that point. It's the same reasons the turtles bandannas got longer and they changed the design of the eyes to be less round and friendly to being more angular. Ironic really considering what happened to the turtles design in secret of the ooze.

But yeah obviously the show didnt get as dark as the movie it just wanted you to think it did going in. Mostly they just dropped comedic overtones and tounge in cheek nature of the whole thing because turtle mania had died down and they were losing attention to more serious shows. Problem is they copied the style and forgot the substance. Batman, xmen and the other stuff they were trying to compete with weren't dark and mature just for they sake of it. They were just trying to be a good adaptations of thier characters and tell stories that respected thier histories if not being straight up pulled from them. Also unlike anything else at the time they were making an effort not to talk down to their audience or blatantly push toys. Just like always though instead of looking at why something works the suits chose to only copy the superficial aesthetics what's working.

This. The show was still quite silly just less goofy and a bit more serious.

[pferreira]

Not if the budget doesn't allow for scenes. Look at the fight between Hun, the Turtles and Bishop. If they couldn't afford to animate all that.... Well that scene would've been left on the cutting room floor and some other sub plot or whatever would've taken that air time.I was asking on a Facebook Doctor Who page why two remaining missing episodes from Season 2 couldn't animated so they could release a whole season boxset, instead why they were going after individual, longer stories. I was told that those two episodes had tons of costumes changes therefore it would take longer to animate. Strange but it does make sense once you think about it: it would take less time to animate the TMNT over the course of four episodes standing still for 25 minutes each compared to a 10 minute fight scene in one episode. :o

Which made no sense, since the Red Sky seasons were NOTHING like the movie except for maybe Carter bearing a slight resemblance to Keno from Secret of the Ooze.No I have no idea why that was done. Very weird choice and also the wrong one.

Batman, xmen and the other stuff they were trying to compete with weren't dark and mature just for they sake of it. They were just trying to be a good adaptations of thier characters and tell stories that respected thier histories if not being straight up pulled from them. Also unlike anything else at the time they were making an effort not to talk down to their audience or blatantly push toys. Just like always though instead of looking at why something works the suits chose to only copy the superficial aesthetics what's working.The final three seasons I think it's fair to say had more in common with TMNT's rival at the time Biker Mice From Mars than any of DC or Marvel's cartoons. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because BMFM was not bad, it's just for TMNT the sudden shift in tone, direction and animation was jarring after seven years. :)

[Prowler]

To be fair, when I was 12-13 and first saw the Red Sky episodes I thought the setting was kinda badass. Especially with Shredder's shocking "I never bluff" line.

I also thought the 2k3 series was a bit badass as well. "Finally we get a more mature TMNT cartoon series!", but it's still an animated 20 minute long toy commercial series at the end of the day. But as a kid I found it pretty damn cool lol

[Wesley]

To be fair, when I was 12-13 and first saw the Red Sky episodes I thought the setting was kinda badass. Especially with Shredder's shocking "I never bluff" line.

I also thought the 2k3 series was a bit badass as well. "Finally we get a more mature TMNT cartoon series!", but it's still an animated 20 minute long toy commercial series at the end of the day. But as a kid I found it pretty damn cool lol

I thought both shows were kinda badass too when I was younger too. Maybe the fact that a lot of the humour went over my head back then might have made me think they were more serious than they actually were.

[Prowler]

They’re more boring than anything.
Well, I did like the Red Sky episodes, but admittedly the change of tone feels a bit underwhelming. At least the blue sky seasons had a certain charm and identity to them, something the Red Sky seasons did not. The Red Sky seasons feel rather generic and a desperate attempt at emulating what was cool at the time instead of being a trend-setter like the FW series originally was. It really shows how quickly the TMNT fad was starting to fall into irrelevance.

[pferreira]

but it's still an animated 20 minute long toy commercial series at the end of the day. But as a kid I found it pretty damn cool lolEvery cartoon series is made to sell merchandise like toys.

The Red Sky seasons feel rather generic and a desperate attempt at emulating what was cool at the time instead of being a trend-setter like the FW series originally was. It really shows how quickly the TMNT fad was starting to fall into irrelevance.Ironic that Biker Mice From Mars was a rip-off TMNT but TMNT ended up ripping them off in the end. :D